Stock Aitken Waterman | How to recycle the same drum pattern again and again
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ก.ย. 2024
- When I started to look into the Roland TR-727 percussion patterns used by Stock, Aitken & Waterman in the late 80s, I found striking similarities between different songs.
Rick Astley, Jason Donovan, Donna Summer, Bananarama, and many others had very similar (sometimes just the same) percussion patterns coming from the 727.
Not surprisingly as they churned out hits and records at a record pace, so some corners had to be cut. And why change a winning formula anyways?
To avoid copyright strikes I've focused on just one of the songs in this video and this is a typical 727 percussion part from that era.
As with the A-ha video I recently published, this is not meant to be a carbon copy remake in terms of sound, it's just a quick demo to show some interesting arrangement decisions. Some tend to take these videos too seriously. ;-)
The Yamaha DX7 patch bank with the bass patches has been confirmed being the real one. It's been confirmed by the very creator.
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This was fascinating. I also like that you basically Rick-Rolled us in slow motion.
exactly hahaha
🤣
::Like::
Hahahaha gold
😂
Amazing! These guys knew how to make perfect pop songs!
I expect many of us are solo home studio producers as a hobby, but I bet it was great fun working in a team like that back in the day. When you're on a roll you just gotta keep them coming , love them or loathe them, the chart positions speak for themselves, it was quintessential pop music
totaly
I have to admit I hated everything that Stock Aitken and Waterman did back in the 80's. But as I get older I appreciate why they were so big back then. It wasn't until the Rick Roll started a few years ago that I started to listen to to them. Those guys really knew how to make a pop song. Thanks for making this video. Nice to see you back.
Yes they were fabulous!
Mike Stock wrote the songs
Yeah! I hated them back in the day too! But as I hit around 24 I started to appreciate how good they were
I too look back on some 80s stuff I didn’t like that the time, but really dig it now. Like Duran Duran stuff (girls on film). Didn’t like the new wave as a 10 yo rock n roller and it has its moments. Nice pop.
@@mumbles215 I agree
Really fun breakdown of this song. Not too surprised they reused this percussion arrangement in so many songs, it really just works in so many songs. I remember reading somewhere that Ian Curnow created those bass patches, but I could be wrong. But damn, they created some of the most iconic DX bass patches ever.
It is Ian Curnows bank. ;-)
yeah and Curnow is a selfish c.nt he will not share the patches or settings.....
@@EspenKraft so he gave them to you?
stock aitken waterman were creative geniuses. Making something sound easy to the ear and funky requires lots of creative talent and is a complex process! Bravo! It just looks easy to the untrained!
My suspicion was correct, lovely 😍 👌
There was an interesting drum loop that SAW became quite fixated on in '89 '90, which had it's roots in a PWL track recorded for Mandy Smith called "Victim of Pleasure" (produced by Daize Washbourn & Phil Harding). They commissioned Justin Strauss to create some remixes for it's USA release, and when the mixes finally came back, Justin's drum loop suddenly began appearing in tracks for Kylie (Hand On Your Heart, Never Too Late), Sonia (Listen To Your Heart, You'll Never Stop Me...) plus many more. I've always been curious how Justin Strauss created the loop, and did he mind SAW procuring it in their creation of further songs.
I loved that drum loop. It came from 'acid house' club songs. But I don't know what song or producer started with this drumloop.
There’s also Kym Mazelle’s Wait (beats and pieces remix) that was the other beat sampled a lot
This DX7 bass patch has always been my fabled holy grail, I can remember digging for information for at least 15 years on forums online, and now I can't believe it has finally surfaced... I truly hope there's a chance you can share it with us S.A.W. fans!
These patches are not mine to give away.
You can get Dexed (free VST) and play original sysex banks from DX7 and a whole bunch of others. There's a huge collection available. Managed to find the legendary Lately/Solid bass too amongst many classics
@@IDigress yes Dexed is awesome son many great patches to download
The patch name is Bass1 for anyone that doesn't know!
These detailed breakdowns are fantastic and I don't care if it's turned into a joke, Never Gonna Give You Up is a great tune!
Yeh, I had no idea what the song was until that string piece came in and BOOM instant smile - that's how it's done (making great records).
Stock, Aitken and Waterman, the hit factory. They had an assembly line approach but it worked as they created the hottest hits of the late 80's. A lot of their tracks are genuine ear worms that are quite catchy. The same beat would work in their Kylie Minogue songs. Rick Astley and Mel & Kim are the most iconic for me personlly. So much early childhood nostalgia with those.
Sigue Sigue Sputnk is my fav manufactured sound all for the wrong reasons.
My favorites were Divine, Hazel Dean, and Dead or Alive.
I remember DJs at the time saying that some of the Rick Astley and Kylie songs had such similar backing tracks (bass and drums/percs) that if you mixed them together they actually started phasing!
Nice lesson! I'm going to create some variation like this on my Roland TR-8S with 707 and 727 sounds right now. Thanks Espen!
Cheers!
It used to be the basslines that stuck in my head the most before this video- but now I can't unhear that shaker part in like half of the hits from the 80's 🤣
Great job sir. I love trying to recreate other people’s tunes as well. I love that bass sound.
Thanks!
Nice video Espen. I re-created the bass sound for "She wan'ts to dance with me" by Rick Astley a few years back. I was a big fan of SAW back in the days haha. Always enjoy your videos mate!
Hi Firefox. Nice to see you here!
@@Dremix73 I’m always sneaking around 🤣. Thanks 🥰.
Brilliant video! Thank you for breaking this down! Almost every SAW production tracks were hits back in the 80s!
Thanks!
I grew up with all PWL songs. And I recognized the drum and perc pattern of 727 and Linn. What a good old days!
Always knew this! That's how they created a "Sound". I could mix many of their productions seamlessly. Kudos!
Cheers!
“I have to say it’s a lot of fun recreating and rebuilding chart hit bangers like this”, I know exactly how you feel, I love recreating some of my favorite songs with my GarageBand app. and then sharing them (and showing off) with my family and friends. I also use the 727 a lot, as well as the 707, 808, and Lynn.
If you listen to the classic Trapped by Colonel Abrams (especially the later mix of late '85), you can hear elements of this rhythm, as well as the bassline which many people say SAW repurposed for Never Gonna Give You Up and recycled in Together Forever.
Was just about to say the same, the bassline is pretty much a straight rip, just in a different key.
I started to write about Colonel Abrams but since you already did it, I'll just leave a like.
Great video, highly informative and entertaining and also brings back some memories. A bit of inspiration from this also, thanks!
Cheers!
I am glad you are back to your usual content. Keep it going!!!
Hey thanks for sharing 💯🕺🏼
Cheers!
Apparently, the KLF worked as part of SAW's producer team, before they went off and wrote hits of their own.
Not exactly as the KLF - while Bill Drummond was managing the band Brilliant, which featured Jimmy Cauty, they recorded an album with SAW. It must have been a weird mixture of extreme personalities, what with Youth of Killing Joke also being in Brilliant.
After listening to the interview you did with Harding and Curnow it seems alot of the work they did had the club and dancing in mind, and i can hear this innocent little percussion groove is the magic layer that makes that happen. It creates an itch in your spine that makes you wanna move, it's kind of tribal. If you take it away, it doesn't work the same. It's sometimes low in the mix, but it's still having the same effect. I can understand why they simply re-used it.
Fabulous breakdown Espen, many thanks as I have more SAW tracks than I'd care to admit to, a guilty pleasure.
Cool video, shows how a simple idea becomes a great track
I had that figured rather quickly! Like I haven't really deep listened to that track lately but I just knew it had to be it! Iconic song always!!
My favorite track of theirs so far is "You Think You're A Man" with Divine!!! Oh that drum section hits so hard!!! What an amazing and iconic Disco track!
I never knew they used a 727 Espen, but I knew years ago how most of their tracks had a similar pattern because I spent a very long time in the 80's mixing their 12'' singles together and they were just so easy to mix
Yes, they were made that way most of the time.
@@EspenKraft I forgot to thank you for showing us how easy the pattern was to recreate. It'll be nice to hear how it sounds on different drum machines, and It will give new life to all their old tracks.
Interesting. So what was the process for making a longer 12" version of a song ? I mean this is with multitrack tape masters right, so how would you get things to extend and loop etc.
I used to love that 12" inch version of Altered Images "I Could Be Happy". How would Martin Rushent make those versions ?
No, they did it backwards. They made the 12" first and cut that down to the radio edits.
@@EspenKraft You are pulling my leg. Ok New Order did Blue Monday only as a 12" but you would have to have the original song down first before you decided which bits to isolate, extend or loop. No ?
This is the most pleasurable way I've ever been Rick-rolled. LOL.
Well they did call them the hit factory, they were rolling them off a production line without much thought. There's a Spitting Image sketch somewhere where there's a singer with a dial that has Jason, Kylie, Rick Astley on it :)
This makes no sense, how can you roll off a production line and not have much thought to make hits?
So they were lucky every time, or maybe, just maybe they thought very well what would produce a hit and honed in on that?
its true, what they say.....
Not exactly true. They had a very good production team of mixers, programmers, background singers etc, and they worked long hours. They often tore down the arranegements and started over, mixed it a gazillion times etc, to get everything absolute right. There was a lot of sweat over each song, even if they can sound pretty similar. That does not come by itself. Just read Phil Hardings book "From the factory floor" and you'll see for yourself. ;-)
They were an absolute production powerhouse that defined a decade. I think they’re hugely underrated. More in the tradition of Motown or Phil Spectre in terms of their process, if not their aesthetic.
@@dankeplace “lucky lucky lucky” you mean…
Really enjoyed this, welcome back!
Great work! It’s amazing how the percussion sounds uninspiring on its own but stick it on a track in the 80’s and you can fill a dance floor. 🕺 Maybe it still works… 🤔
Cheers!
now you need to add flith too on the 2 and 4.
I like all of your videos!👍
Great job!👑
Don't stop 🙂
Cheers!
I absolutely ❤️ Stock Aitken Waterman !
Their use of that bassline is like crack to me.
Never gonna give them up.
😀👍👍
Great video !
Mel & Kim too - Showing out! (Get fresh for the weekend)
Great vid Espen! Really enjoyed this one!
Great video. They were quite the 80's movers!
Cheers!
Nice to see you back, Espen!
Stock Aitken and Waterman used the same backing tape for all their singers. They just hit play and let each singer sing in a new track. 😁
They also used the same mic on everyone.
That should be a nice experiment, creating a mix track from all S.A.W. songs.
Is that actually true? I could believe it..
@@DannyKavka the Clarec sound field microphone,,whatever that was.
In fact, it was always Rick Astley singing as well. They just sped the tape up or down accordingly.
Fantastic classic tracks😊
Unbelievable, Rick Rolled by stealth. I knew it was that song as soon as the percussion started.
Awesome ! Thanks!
I found a stack of Smash Hits magazines from 1985 to 1989 in a loft a few years ago. Prior to 1988 UK pop seemed to be a spread of astonishingly rich production from the likes of Trevor Horn, Chris Hughes, Alan Tarney, Steve Levine etc. Post 1988, it was dominated by Stock Aitken & Waterman's Imperial Bubblegum Era and at the time I hated it. Now, though, I can see it's charm.
Hmmm, I can't. Care to share? SAW were a scourge on pop music in the 80s, turning it from something creative into a money-making factory. Still, the public bought it, as usual.
Should i be proud or ashamed that i already knew the track, hearing the percussion only :) i was a teen that recorded tapes for family and grandma was a great fan of the coffee boy from saw
Interesting... I've heard that song more times than I'd care to admit, and never noticed the percussion part was that complex. Maybe it's the meme-ification, maybe the radio's broadcast limiter was crushing it out of existence. Looks like I'm going to have to borrow some CDs to fix a hole in my 80s knowledge.
Good job replicating a popular tune! It's also nice to see Nuendo still in use in 2022. The arrangement window looks like Cubase 5 from what I remember.
Thanks! Correct, I have both Nuendo 4 and Cubase 5 from the gear where I worked back then. As a glorified tape recorder and sequencer they still work just fine for my purposes. ;-)
*loved ONE Donna Summer song and all Kylie Minogue numbers off her 1st album* 😂
S. A. & W were so potent, the 'music biz elite' tried every dirty trick in the book to shut them down. Find an excellent interview on SAGE OF QUAY with Mike Stock. Rember also; Pete Waterman was in no way responsible for any music creation. Pete was/is a classic mover, shaker, fixer. Mike Stock comes over as an absolute darling. ❤️❤️❤️❤️
They were masters of their craft. Their music and instrumentation just made and still makes me so happy. Sadly lacking in today's music.
This is the most educative rickroll ever made. But seriously, very interesting video.
Cheers!
You can be listening to or simply hearing the first 4 seconds of a song, no matter of tempo, and you certainly now it is the PWL sound, no doubt. SAW stablished an unique rythm pattern recognized all over the world.
Greetings from CHILE.
SAW were parodied superbly in This is the Chorus by Morris Minor and the Majors.
Cool, sounds like I gotta check that out, then!
They used the same synth sounds , drum sounds , same chords and arrangements across several artists , like Rick Astley , Donna Summers, kylie, Bananarama, its all the same! 💃
I was guessing Mel & Kim's "Showing out". hahaha. Great video!
It wasn't just a Stock Aitken Waterman thing, it was an 80's style at the time. Don't forget SAW ripped off a lot of other artists too like Colonel Abrams - Trapped...Lucky for the internet we found out about it.
Amazing this! Somehow i missed this video, always wanted to know how to make a stock.a.&w. Track.
Sir I love this recreation video. PLease do more, the 80s can be bad but can also be very good. I always enjoy your videos. (not so much the tesla ones lol)
Thanks! I might have some more like this from time to time.
Really great breakdown!
Cheers!
Did you just Rick Roll us? This is the Ultimate Rick Roll.
Damn, this was a great Rick roll!
fantastic ! I thought the main drum machine was the Mpc60 , love the Dx bass as always
The most creative way I've ever been Rick Rolled xD
I must admit i liked some of the Dead or Alive 12” mixes they did. A lot going on in them, a bit of a guilty pleasure. 😮
S/A/W made solid hits and knew how to program their 80ies hardware.
Heh, I think I know where Reznor got the basis for the Head like a Hole drum machine. Right down to the disco timing.
Rick Rolled!
One of the trio was asked that week they had 10% of the hits in UK how radio had been if they had, and the reply was boring to listen to radio. So at the least know what they did.
The original percussion track sounds like it was done on the TR-626, as it had tuneable drum sounds ( I can hear it in the congas or whatever they are )
Lol....I lost count of how many times I heard that exact same drum and bass tracks on so many Stock Aitken & Waterman tracks from the late 80's and early 90's, yes, they really were that ubiquitous.
True. I analyzed this A LOT as a 15 year old kid, on Saturday nights, wading through the snow, sipping vodka & grape soda, sharing fruit flavored Sorbits with my girlfriend as she held on to my left hand thinking "wow, he must do some wild arpeggios!" ... we had REAL winters in the 80s! Seriously, I noticed that S.A.W. arranged the rhythm section into 3 drum/percussion parts and 3 bass parts, the 6 together created a polyphonic "groove" out of the robotic machines, to make it danceable :D
Hi Espen!
I have also this multitrack and as you says that in the '80-s was brilliant musicians, producers and artists.
Everyone must heard every single tracks from this multitrack...
Michael Jackson - Billie Jean , Peter Gabriel - Sladgehammer.
The Pet Shop Boys It's a sin... is the original studiorecording.. no effect, no stems... 32 raw track... it's insane...
I remember my PWL childhood records, all had ‘Drums by A Linn’. For many, many years I thought it was a person!
You have an amazing ear!! Amazing how you're able to pick this stuff apart... wonder when you started your fascination with electronic instruments? Thanks for sharing your wealth of knowledge!!
Cheers!
You make me want to listen to all these songs again. Actually, I never stopped (loving you etc bla bla bla).
Up until the strings you totally got me, I though it was "I should be so lucky". 🙂
I'd love some info on Ace of bass drums and sound, but that's more 90s ?
You rick-rolled me you prankster.
Those mofos reused the same drum and percussion patterns on damn near every song. Set the tempo to around 110 bpm on the Linn 9000, four on the floor kick, 16th note hi-hat, and then layer on lots of 727 agogo bells and claps. Every. Damn. Song.
And they often added some Roland Alpha Juno toms. The synth did not have internal drum samples. It was a chromatically playable preset patch on that synth.
@@sauermusicDE Ooo I didn't know that. Thanks, I love learning sample sources like that!
If you listen to the TR727 factory demo you’ll hear they didn’t even program it they just used parts of the demo in a lot of songs, also Kym Mazelles wait (beats and pieces) and Mandy Smiths victim of pleasure (Justin Strauss mix) were two other beats that were sampled a lot
Nice👍 thanks
Cheers!
We’re no strangers to drums
Welcome back Espen, I have missed your vids but for some reason I never got to see the Fake Espen monstrosities.
The most elaborate Rick-roll ever haha
Rick Astley bought out a new album a few years ago I believe
Thanks for the upload
So, after all these years I finally did get rickrolled... by a drum machine of all things. 😆
The original is playing an interesting three-pitch melodic pattern with the bongo or whatever it is.
Yes, and the "recreation" is not
THANK YOU
Yep they were like a factory producing a lot of products made by the same set of widgets.
And didn’t we know it. The nauseating cacophony that soundtracked the late 80s courtesy of S/A/W drove me crazy. Interesting analysis though.
Even Kylie slowed down sounded like Rick Astley,, all manufactured like a packet of cornflakes. 🇬🇧🤣😅😂 Oct twenty two
Wait ... have we just been Rick Rolled? LOL
RICKROLLED........ :D
Actually Hazel Dean comes to mind first at the very beginning. Not Kylie, Jason, Rick, Bananarama or anyone else. :)
I've always found Together Forever and Never Gonna Give You Up were just countermelodies of one another. I'm surprised more people didn't hear it.
Oh I totally noticed it. Both were presumably, let's say, "influenced" by the classic Trapped by Colonel Abrams.
Cool I hear it now yes.
@@80ssynthfan48 not really hearing the influence of trapped unless you mean the bass and drums?
@@jizzmaster2000 Yes, the bass and drums, not the melody.
@@80ssynthfan48 Do you think it was a 727 and DX ?
Nice one with this video on saw drums
But what about the strings synth sound on this never gonna give you up track?
It's a fairlight 3 ?
Check out my interview with Phil Harding and Ian Curnow on that one.
727 i love that machine in combinatie with the 707 ,my fav. Drumcomputer. Use it very often from roland cloud. Sound of the late 80s is ofcouse stock aitken and waterman. Nice video! But most recognizable 727 track ever...papa chico?
I actually got it by the timing in the percussion and sang it and it fit.
lol, got me hook line & sinker.
I had one of these but was a pain to sequence so I sold it. Turns out Aphex Twin had recently been seen using one and it got good money. I don't miss it.
whenever I connect my 727 to sync out 2 on my korg kms30 I get a lot of ground noise