Here's the links to the other Billy Corgan Feuds Billy Corgan Vs Soundgarden th-cam.com/video/0K-r1sFmJis/w-d-xo.html Billy Corgan vs Smash Mouth th-cam.com/video/VU4CB20Il-Q/w-d-xo.html Billy Corgan vs CNN th-cam.com/video/fdho0mdwtFo/w-d-xo.html Billy Corgan Vs Collective Soul th-cam.com/video/qab6hF1Tyf4/w-d-xo.html
There was SP/Chumbawamba fued of sorts in 1996 that got Chumbas banned from German tv show Rockpalast for a bit (they were big in Germany pre-Tubthumper).
@@chetsenior7253 Corgan is like John Lennon in the sense of being very insecure yet very talented. As well as trolling to trigger others. Heck John Lennon might be the original viral troll in a day when social media didn't even exist. Can't really blame Billy for being inspired.
Just saw Pavement last week. They ended their set with Ranch Life and when they sang the lyrics about Smashing Pumpkins the crowd went crazy and sang along with it. Malkmus said he was a fan and he was jealous of how popular they were. But Corgan has zero sense of humor and still holds a grudge. It's a one sided feud. Kim Gordan from Sonic Youth said Corgan takes himself too serious and is not fun to be around.
Billy was offended that Pavement sang “New Haircut” and he was going bald. JK I love Billy and the Smashing Pumpkins are probably my favorite. Yeah, he’s a little bit of an egomaniac and narcissist, but so was Prince and so many other artists I adore.
They are both just very different people. Steve Malkmus seems like a very laid back guy who doesn't get too bogged down in the seriousness of things. Corgan is very driven and focused, and is very particular about his work. Two very different approaches but both are equally as brilliant.
I agree. Both are different and I like them both. Pavement (to my knowedge) only released albums on Matador records. The Pumbkin's 2nd release Siamese Dream was released on Virgin records. So, if "indie cred" is a thing, Pavement wins.....I guess. But, I don't think having a major label deal makes a band less legit.
Pretty much. Knock him all you want... he made it. He succeeded beyond his wildest dreams and those of millions of others. That is objective regardless of the intent of his behaviour, public persona or if you love or hate his music. It is what it is. The ability for this to even happen is still a good thing IMHO.
Just chill Billy. You made some timeless records in Siamese Dream and Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness. You have some other pretty good songs aside from those albums. Stop feeling the need to outdo people and prove your relevance. Your work speaks for itself.
Billy in incapable of understanding that Pavement emphatically didn't want what they had. And yeah, Pavement stopped writing new songs. Because they broke up! Steve has been putting out albums with The Jicks that are lightyears ahead of anything Billy has done since the 90s.
last time I saw pumpkins I hungout outside of the venue till they finished the "new" stuff and rest of the set was classic. Even billy was like "okay here is what you came for" or something like that
Smashing Pumpkin's Gish had huge record company marketing behind it from the day of it's release. I remember walking into a record store and seeing a stand and signs announcing it's release. Corgan himself was far to an accomplished guitarist to fit the grunge mold. It always seemed like he was slumming it with the grunge guys and would have been more happy in a hair metal band 5 years previous. Pavement was the opposite, you couldn't even buy their first record in my part of the world at release. I only heard them thru the local student radio. They really epitomized the grunge cbf attitude. The "feud" thing was probably something a record company invented to get some publicity drama for them. For Corgan to say he's more the spirit of grunge is laughable imo.
Agree. Pavement was bare bones, but all talent and great songwriting without very high technical skills. They’re one of those bands that just couldn’t be denied because they were that good. As someone that was in high school and college when so called “grunge” was going on I cringed hard when he said it was about rebellion. First off, Jesus Christ Billy, grow the fuck up! Second, the grunge term was marketing. Some exec came up with it to sell records. The bands weren’t unified in some message of rebellion. They were all their own bands and had their own thing going on.
@@benjaminwatt2436 I've got to downvote your comment unfortunately, you can't compare rockers to rappers, they're coming from completely different worlds. A lot of the shootings related to rappers are gang issues, which stem from systemic deprivation and racism. A lot of soundcloud rappers die from drugs, which is also systemic and related to the nihilistic attitude of that music scene. The idea of 'selling out' related to the rock or indie scene is rooted in ideology as opposed to systemic issues. In other words, rappers come from much harsher worlds that you know nothing about, you can't compare them to the safe worlds of white indie or rock musicians and you should educate yourself before commenting about rappers.
The rebellion against “selling out”’ had very little to do with pop-culture consumerism and everything to do with making up for dismal sales and lackluster appeal. I’ll let y’all in on an industry secret… Every band wants a #1 record, gold/platinum plaques, the cover of such and such magazine, etc. To say they don’t is BS. Otherwise they’d be content with getting home from the office around 6pm, loosening the tie as sit on the couch with their acoustic, picking up from where they left off the other day with “this seriously bitchin chord progression” for the latest and greatest girlfriend (or what/whomever) of the month. Not one single artist would ever want to pour their vulnerability into music snd then spend the ridiculous money it takes to record said music with the intent of only a handful of true believers listening to it without any concern of profitability.
@@luqast8462 what has the term "nature kid" got to do with any of this anyway? just went and listened to Rangelife.... pretty bad man... had to turn it off halfway through... you really backing these clowns over SP?
@@seanfitzgerald8575 I honestly don't think that Stephen was solo when he made Slanted and Enchated, I think that Pavement made that album. But what do I know right? Smart ass nature kids get me all the time!
@@4711shaun2 All I can say is that you either enjoy those meaningless, overhyped Smashing Pumpkins jams, or something with some value. There's music for everybody, and for nature kids there's plenty of it to choose from.
The root cause here, IMO, is that Corgan takes himself really, REALLY seriously and couldn't handle Malkmus clowning on the Pumpkin's fans a little. Billy hasn't gotten over it because being big mad about it 30+ years later keeps him in the news. Malkmus on the other hand seems to have moved on and has had a modestly successful solo career + a couple of Pavement reunion tours here and there. BTW the full lyric of Range Life takes a shot at Stone Temple Pilots too. I don't recall anybody from that camp having a come apart over it.
The implication here is that Corgan is less relevant and less rich than Malkmus. Not the case, no. Corgan literally runs a major wrestling promotion, besides touring w a reunion Pumpkins lineup.
Also, there is no need to take oneself especially seriously to get mad at another band trashing you BY NAME in a song. And not just a song but a single. You do that, you get whatever's coming to you. Corgan got these bums removed from Lolla for it.
@@grayhudson1095 Corgan didn't get Pavement removed from Lolla. He states that himself and it's mentioned in this video. He was a fan of Pavement but just didn't get their sense of humour clearly.
@@gordonbennett7931 What's the humor in mentioning a band by name in a song and trashing them? I must not get their super hipsterish mysterious sense of humor either, to me it just looks like a bunch of jealous hipster dbags trashing a way better and more successful band by name. Apparently Corgan has the same limitations I do when it comes to understanding hipster dbag humor.
@@grayhudson1095 ''way better'' is just your opinion. Personally, I disagree despite being a fan of both bands. If you were a fan of Pavement or understood their music you would be in a better position to appreciate the humour of their lyrics and the fact that they couldn't care less about being ''hipster''. Corgan decided to take offence because of his ego and because he takes himself too seriously. Note, Pavement also made a passing comment about Stone Temple Pilots in the same song but STP understood that it meant nothing and weren't bothered in the slightest.
In all fairness, as melodramatic as he can be Corgan makes a pretty valid point about greatest hits tours. I'm a fan of both bands and have always found this "feud" hilarious, mostly because it's basically just Corgan complaining about a jokey lyric for 20+ years. I think what really got to him was the "nature, kids, they don't have no function" part. He saw himself as the leader of the alt nation, the spokesman of his generation, so no function?
a) I thought "Range Life" was much harsher on Stone Temple Pilots, who laughed it off-- the song was joking about the bands' personas, including Pavement's b) Stephen Malkmus has consistently made very good new, interesting music over the decades with Pavement, with the Jinks, and as a solo artist. Smashing Pumpkins has also... continued to make music. Billy Corgan seems confused about what happens when people don't keep the same band name when their band dissolves c) I'm not saying Billy Corgan is the "problem" but he sure is the common denominator in these "feuds"-- when you're a rock star and you're feuding with a cable news network, maybe you have lost your focus a bit
People get on Billy for being so anal about his music but they refuse to see the pure genius of everything he does with it. Im not a huge Smashing Pumpkins fan but i respect everything about them.
I wouldn't call Corgan a genius but he is meticulously passionate with everything he writes and creates, he really takes his music seriously (as it should be imo) - ironically he doesn't take himself too seriously but people think he does. The guitar recording on all of Pumpkins' records are flawless, they are not just a mere fuzz pedal or a shoegaze trippy sound just thrown in the mix and I'm pretty sure that's Corgan.
@@Ricardo-cl3vs it DISCREDITS him as a human being and cranks up his Assholiness to ELEVEN so my respect for him even more nonexistent than when he started treating D’arcy like shit! You’ve heard the stories yeah he’s NOT the first Ahole in rock n roll that people still appreciate for creative reasons but he’s done lots of collateral damage with those around him CLEARLY and I can call him on that BS! It’s my right 😎
(5:40) except the band DID put out a new record. Two in fact. I personally found it to be their best album in 20years. One of the new albums is also the first double album since Mellon Collie. And they are currently working on another double album that’s supposedly a “sequel” to Mellon Collie as well.
You mean "Oceania"?! Awesome album, great tracks, brilliantly produced. Imho Billy captured the essence of the Pumpkins sound. If that album would have come out after "Mellon Collie" the Pumpkins would have become Rock gods. But it didn't. It came out over a decade too late to really make an impact. Billy's ego has missed it's time window and the world has moved on.
@@Ricardo-cl3vs actually, I’m talking about (first) Shiny and Oh So Bright Vol. 1 No Past No Future No Sun. The first album to have Chamberlain, Iha, and Corgan since Machina 2. It’s a KILLER record. Produced by Rick Rubin. According to Rick, when Billy played the demos, it was a rare instance of him actually loving every song. That typically just doesn’t happen. I still need to hear the double album CYR, but I’m pretty sure I’ll enjoy it as well.
There's no money in making new music, and Lots of money for nostalgia reunions. This is the sad state of the music industry, and I feel really bad for kids that don't get to experience the anticipation of buying a new album from their favorite band.
No, but I'll happily support the Jicks. There's a very good reason Pavement isn't making new music. S.M. had a massive protracted breakdown in '99 and broke the band up and idk even the band was fully aware of it for years
@@jacobbieker8874 There are no longer the same incentives to make a great album with a great producer. It's all about quickly recording a single, releasing it and recording the next single. There are great bands and artists out there, and I'm not knocking new music at all. It's just a different system.
I think billy is misunderstood a lot of the time, he values art and music to a degree where to most it comes off as pompous but they are missing his general enthusiasm for what he is doing. If your art isn't your world and you care about how people perceive you or it then you're not an artist.
I’ve followed him for a long time. Big fan of the music but not him. Especially in the early days. He hated and belittled people who didn’t write stuff as “good” as his but sold more first, then he started selling and they were the greatest but was miffed at losing some Awards or something to “lesser” bands, then sold more and chilled out, then started selling less and it’s everyone else’s fault, listeners included. He’s just here lately trying to come out and be cool about everything. He’s is the rock equivalent to rock as Phil Helmuth is to Poker. And that does come from passion, but it’s also arrogance and uncalled for. Don’t defend this guy.
@@jordancarpenter676 people can change over time, a few years ago he did a documentary here on the pumpkins channel and he did a lot of reflection on where he was as a artist and person and where he is now being a father and mending friendships. Also the pressure he must of been under during the melloncholly era must have been insane.
I like Pavement but I grew out of Stephen Malkmus' cynicism... Pavement's sound is not "just sound", it has that whole "lo-fi aesthetics" behind it like Yo La Tengo and it can be very tiresome sometimes... Yeah, Smashing Pumpkins was thrown out of the "grungy kids table" at the time lol but in the end Corgan is the more coherent of them all, he doesn't suck up to mainstream artists but he also doesn't suck up to indie darlings like Mark Arm does it to MC5 remaining members, for example.
Grunge artists started the culture/trend of manufactured nihilism. I feel Billy is just a talking head, they all bitched about artists selling out but sold out in their own way.
@@grayhudson1095 they sold out sooo hard and it’s fine. Why not make the art you want and get paid and hav it reach the widest possible audience? That’s just young pride getting in the way.
@@Blade2vampirerave Um, what? I literally don't understand what you're talking about. The Pumpkins on the heels of their initial big success w Siamese Dream released a double album concept album thing full of random death metal songs mixed w random artsy songs. They followed that up w an album that I still don't know what the hell it even is, which they refused to tour normally. Not only did they not sell out w their records, they didn't sell out as a live act, either, and were weird and artistic in how they set up their live shows.
lol I love him knocking on Malkmus for doing reunion tours rather than writing new music when Malkmus had already released more solo albums than Pavement albums. Corgan needs to stop taking himself so seriously
This, last time I checked, Pavement's bass player was a bar tender...these guys aren't big rock stars. In other words, they can't afford to write shitty albums every three years like Corgan can, and they're in their 50s for christs sake.
That Pavement complained about them in the 90s (they didn’t) that Pavement should have a “social message” (they shouldn’t), that you need to put out new music if you’re an alternative act from the 90s (doesn’t matter if your new music sucks)
I feel like Billy usually almost has a point, but his ego gets in the way. Love how Pavement ended things respectably before they became a band with a revolving lineup and no good albums to show for it. Jicks catalog absolutely destroys the last two decades of Pumpkins output.
@@frankkkbard0n315 I am aware - post-Machina "Pumpkins" is neither truly the Pumpkins nor truly a Corgan solo project. It's in a weird inbetween place - he was trying to exploit the brand name but they weren't true solo records, he was constrained by the brand he was trying to exploit and had to stay doing sounds and styles he would rather not have. When he actually did an actual solo thing it was much different and way way way better than all post-2000 "Pumpkins" music. I love the Pumpkins (88-2000 or so) and I love Corgan's solo stuff. I have no use for the post-2000s "Pumpkins" stuff.
First time commenter long time viewer. I love your videos! I’d love to see you do a video on one of the following bands sometime: Miracle Legion Drop Nineteens Giant Sand Rocket From The Tombs Rock on! 🤘
Melancholy and the Infinite Sadness is the defining album of the 90s, but to make something that long lasting you often have to have a crazy ego like Billy Corgan. That's the trade off. I have heard he's a nice guy though and has never personally wronged anyone, he's just kind of has a snobbish attitude but he won't backstab you or anything. I like both bands and that will never stop
Yeah I like Billy Corgan, he can be nobhead sometimes but he had a shitty childhood so my guess is that his general 'threat level' is higher than most, which makes him overact to minor insults.
calling anything the smashing pumpkins did "the defining album" of the 90's is more than a bit of a stretch in my humble opinion. not trying to throw shade at you but albums like "nevermind", "vitalogy", "superunknown", even Metallica's "black album" would certainly have a claim to that title. Alanis Morrisette's "jagged little pill" and green day's "dookie" even sold better than melancholy, not that we are discussing sales but it's worth mentioning. it was a great album, dont get me wrong, but to say it defined the decade is very, very arguable.
@@_warren6659 It certainly is arguable, but there's a lot to back it up. It was the last mainstream album that set out to prove something on a grand scale and succeed. It marks the end of the 90s alternative scene and bookends the grand guitar rock culture from the 1960s through the 1990s. It also bridges the gap between the early 90s and the late 90s, which were a lot more different than people think. It's not the most important album of the 90s. Nevermind is certainly more important, as is dookie, and the effects of Jagged Little Pill are still be felt today. Hell, Siamese Dream is a way more important and impactful album than Melancholy and the Infinite Sadness, but I wouldn't consider it or any of those albums as a more defining album even if they are better. It acts as the last and culturally relevant "big rock album" "big moment" that we've had. By culturally relevant I mean stuff my grandma has heard of. Sure, Ok Computer and other releases since have been big moments, but they've never surpassed the cultural relevance that of Melancholy and the Infinite Sadness. It's the the last great and epic guitar record released into the mainstream and the last great album of the alternative 90s and the last great guitar album that fits in easily with the great and epic albums that came before it like The Wall, Quadrophenia, or Physical Graffiti. Nevermind is definitely more important album of the decade but Melancholy and the Infinite Sadness is more definitive of the decade and sums up the 90s better as a whole.
@@noahmichael2213 I agree with almost everything you said. I don't want to seem like a hater here. melancholy was... quite the grandiose effort. I would use caution, however, when including it with rock and roll masterpieces like the wall, the black album, etc. as again, in my opinion, it falls short of the bar. I consider siamese dream the pumpkins best work, and more encapsulating of their sound, as well as the sound of the 90's as a whole. just like you shouldn't buy championships in baseball (dodgers, yankees) you simply cant throw a ton of money at a musical effort in an attempt to buy masterpiece status like the pumpkins did with melancholy. that said, I cant be descriptive enough when talking about how I felt when I got that double cassette, and heard zero and bullet with butterfly wings for the first time. it was definitely a defining album of my formative years, and changed the trajectory of my taste in music. for life. but to call it "the defining album of the 90's" makes me feel bad about the other bands that put out work that matters more.
And there were so many other good bands from the 90’s that weren’t part of the mainstream movement like Green Magnet School, Bedhead (actually, most of the bands on Trance Syndicate Records), The Showcase Showdown, Swervedriver, MBV, etc. Don’t let the bands that had videos on MTV be the only reference point to what was going on at the time.
"i dunno billy. weren't u a little hopped up on goofballs when u made that decision. try staying near the gateway or some anger management. case dismissed." *wiggin'*
I'm not knocking D'arcy. I'm in the same boat in the same city. We have no true idea of her experience with the band so her choices were hers alone. But Billy made the decision to go without her.
3:23--Has Billy Corgan taken on social issues in recent memory? Has his music had a message that goes noticeably deeper than self-aggrandizement since the Zwan album? (And with that group, I think he was doing his routine of erasing bandmates' recordings nonstop w/o asking).
I like SP and need to look up Pavement. If there's this many feuds and the common denominator is Corgan then the most likely scenario is he keeps starting it and holy shit it doesn't surprise me, I've never seen him in interviews he seems like such a pretentious self-righteous sop. I reckon anyone mentioning him in anything other than good light would set him off.
Pavement were always a much greater band than Smashing Pumpkins. All of the members have kept busy (Stephen Malkmaus has made great solo albums thru the past few years). I would rather have Pavement keep their original magic alive, that record a new album of lesser material (like Smashing Pumpkins or The Pixies). Also, their 2022 tour was the best they're ever sounded. The played classics, b-sides, deep cuts... every show was unique and intense. I agree with the original Range Life lyrics about S.P. ...." I could really give a f..."
I love Pavement. If S.M. wrote about me I'd hate to be the bulls eye of what he was shooting at. He's too funny & it would be useless to feud with him.
feuds aside.. if i had a choice between only listening to sp or pavement or malkumus and the jucks, etc... i'd choose stephen malkumus... even though i don really agree with either one of their politics... malkumus music is awesome.
Here's the links to the other Billy Corgan Feuds
Billy Corgan Vs Soundgarden
th-cam.com/video/0K-r1sFmJis/w-d-xo.html
Billy Corgan vs Smash Mouth
th-cam.com/video/VU4CB20Il-Q/w-d-xo.html
Billy Corgan vs CNN
th-cam.com/video/fdho0mdwtFo/w-d-xo.html
Billy Corgan Vs Collective Soul
th-cam.com/video/qab6hF1Tyf4/w-d-xo.html
Sid,
You mean another video about a Billy Corgan feud?
Holy shucking fit, I did not expect this! 🤣
Still compelling Rock n roll true stories to bring their fans up to speed on Smile empty soul.
There was SP/Chumbawamba fued of sorts in 1996 that got Chumbas banned from German tv show Rockpalast for a bit (they were big in Germany pre-Tubthumper).
You dont have to say Billy Corgan feud next time...just say Billy Corgan lol
@Christopher Bingham billy corgan sucks
Pavement basically took a name out of a hat. Just like Weezer mentioning green Day. It's like a placeholder. I don't think it was ever that deep
Exactly
Pavement does not take themselves seriously, Corgan thinks he’s a god, so i I love it.
Well, green day really sucks so maybe the diss is real
@@chetsenior7253 Corgan is like John Lennon in the sense of being very insecure yet very talented. As well as trolling to trigger others. Heck John Lennon might be the original viral troll in a day when social media didn't even exist. Can't really blame Billy for being inspired.
Just saw Pavement last week. They ended their set with Ranch Life and when they sang the lyrics about Smashing Pumpkins the crowd went crazy and sang along with it. Malkmus said he was a fan and he was jealous of how popular they were. But Corgan has zero sense of humor and still holds a grudge. It's a one sided feud. Kim Gordan from Sonic Youth said Corgan takes himself too serious and is not fun to be around.
Lol “ranch life”. You’re watching too much Yellowstone
Kim Gordon looks like a total blast herself. Never smiles
@@jongZhao-e8q telling women to smile? classic Pumpkins fan
Billy was offended that Pavement sang “New Haircut” and he was going bald.
JK I love Billy and the Smashing Pumpkins are probably my favorite. Yeah, he’s a little bit of an egomaniac and narcissist, but so was Prince and so many other artists I adore.
They are both just very different people. Steve Malkmus seems like a very laid back guy who doesn't get too bogged down in the seriousness of things. Corgan is very driven and focused, and is very particular about his work. Two very different approaches but both are equally as brilliant.
Billy Corgan is fucking nuts
@MOONL⚡️GHT LOVE 💓
Nah, they're right; you just don't like that they are.
I agree. Both are different and I like them both.
Pavement (to my knowedge) only released albums on Matador records. The Pumbkin's 2nd release Siamese Dream was released on Virgin records.
So, if "indie cred" is a thing, Pavement wins.....I guess.
But, I don't think having a major label deal makes a band less legit.
Pavement is so much better
@@Yankeefan2807Sometimes nutty people make the best songs
Video Suggestion: “Billy Corgan’s feud with virtually every person he interacts with.”
Billy corgan vs the starbucks employee that didnt put enough cream in his coffee one time
@@Garf2O although I'm a smashing pumpkins fan ngl this is funny af thanks for the laugh man
Pretty much. Knock him all you want... he made it. He succeeded beyond his wildest dreams and those of millions of others. That is objective regardless of the intent of his behaviour, public persona or if you love or hate his music. It is what it is. The ability for this to even happen is still a good thing IMHO.
I'd love to see a video about 90's bands Corgan actually got along with hehe
garbage
@@werideatdusk I know Billy got along well with Butch specifically, but wasn't aware he got along with all of Garbage.
That would probably be a very short video.
My Bloody Valentine
@@lizzkaayako2270 well they toured together and i didnt hear of any drama for a change lol.
This one made me feel melancholy and infinite amounts of sadness.
Yeah, that's the current Zeitgeist. I used to Adore them.
@@shaun9901 They still Lull me.
No need to feel that way mate because today's the greatest day you've ever known
@@SB-ou5yp remember their album "Melancholy and the infinite sadness"?
@@juicepick7131 Remember their song 'Today'?
Of course Smashing Pumpkins was feuding with Pavement, it's where all their Pumpkins got Smashed
Just chill Billy. You made some timeless records in Siamese Dream and Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness. You have some other pretty good songs aside from those albums. Stop feeling the need to outdo people and prove your relevance. Your work speaks for itself.
I once met Stephen in a music store. He was buying a Stone Temple Pilots shirt.
I pray to God that is a real story.
Are they foxy to you?
And he’s absolutely insufferable.
Haha
I’d like to see Billy Corgen and David Lee Roth start a band. Make it a reality show
😆
Well I love David but he isn’t on par with Billy talent wise. Especially now.
I'd like that sound...BC could bring the deeper sound for ole Diamond Dave...different lol
Billy in incapable of understanding that Pavement emphatically didn't want what they had. And yeah, Pavement stopped writing new songs. Because they broke up! Steve has been putting out albums with The Jicks that are lightyears ahead of anything Billy has done since the 90s.
last time I saw pumpkins I hungout outside of the venue till they finished the "new" stuff and rest of the set was classic. Even billy was like "okay here is what you came for" or something like that
Smashing Pumpkin's Gish had huge record company marketing behind it from the day of it's release. I remember walking into a record store and seeing a stand and signs announcing it's release. Corgan himself was far to an accomplished guitarist to fit the grunge mold. It always seemed like he was slumming it with the grunge guys and would have been more happy in a hair metal band 5 years previous.
Pavement was the opposite, you couldn't even buy their first record in my part of the world at release. I only heard them thru the local student radio. They really epitomized the grunge cbf attitude. The "feud" thing was probably something a record company invented to get some publicity drama for them.
For Corgan to say he's more the spirit of grunge is laughable imo.
Agree. Pavement was bare bones, but all talent and great songwriting without very high technical skills. They’re one of those bands that just couldn’t be denied because they were that good. As someone that was in high school and college when so called “grunge” was going on I cringed hard when he said it was about rebellion. First off, Jesus Christ Billy, grow the fuck up! Second, the grunge term was marketing. Some exec came up with it to sell records. The bands weren’t unified in some message of rebellion. They were all their own bands and had their own thing going on.
@AK: You hit the nail on the head. I think we are roughly the same age. Great comment.
Never thought Brooklyn Vegan would be the winner of this feud
That Pavement lyric about Smashing Pumpkins isn't even that offensive.
Both these bands have a lot of good songs. I would say that both bands’ first 3 albums are absolutely essential listening for 90s rock fans.
Agreed! Very well put
I think Pavements back catalogue of albums are better than the Pumpkins
Stephen Malkmus has a much bigger and better catalog of music.
The picture at 5:49 is hilarious as Billy is about a foot shorter than Stephen Malkmus when Billy is about 6 foot 5 in real life.
6'3" but yeah you're right about your point 🙂
I wouldn't trust anything from a site called "Brooklyn Vegan"
Imagine being grown adults in your 50's still caring about who sold out or not.
Agreed, the whole 'sell out' idea was silly in the 90's, now it's just pathetic. The world has moved on ffs.
@@HermeticWorlds its pathetic, but at least rockers aren't shooting each other, looking at you rappers
@@benjaminwatt2436 I've got to downvote your comment unfortunately, you can't compare rockers to rappers, they're coming from completely different worlds. A lot of the shootings related to rappers are gang issues, which stem from systemic deprivation and racism. A lot of soundcloud rappers die from drugs, which is also systemic and related to the nihilistic attitude of that music scene.
The idea of 'selling out' related to the rock or indie scene is rooted in ideology as opposed to systemic issues. In other words, rappers come from much harsher worlds that you know nothing about, you can't compare them to the safe worlds of white indie or rock musicians and you should educate yourself before commenting about rappers.
The rebellion against “selling out”’ had very little to do with pop-culture consumerism and everything to do with making up for dismal sales and lackluster appeal.
I’ll let y’all in on an industry secret…
Every band wants a #1 record, gold/platinum plaques, the cover of such and such magazine, etc. To say they don’t is BS.
Otherwise they’d be content with getting home from the office around 6pm, loosening the tie as sit on the couch with their acoustic, picking up from where they left off the other day with “this seriously bitchin chord progression” for the latest and greatest girlfriend (or what/whomever) of the month.
Not one single artist would ever want to pour their vulnerability into music snd then spend the ridiculous money it takes to record said music with the intent of only a handful of true believers listening to it without any concern of profitability.
Yes a 54 and 55 years old men acting like teenagers sad
Billy Corgan is now a wrestling promoter first and a frontman second, no wonder he likes feuding with so many bands.
Billy Corgan could steal my dog and I would still bow before him for making Siamese Dream
Nobody could steal my dog without harm but Siamese Dream is a fine album
Billy Corgan should also abduct you, since you are so into it.
At least one less nature kid to bother the rest of the world population.
@@luqast8462 what has the term "nature kid" got to do with any of this anyway?
just went and listened to Rangelife.... pretty bad man... had to turn it off halfway through... you really backing these clowns over SP?
@@seanfitzgerald8575 I honestly don't think that Stephen was solo when he made Slanted and Enchated, I think that Pavement made that album. But what do I know right? Smart ass nature kids get me all the time!
@@4711shaun2 All I can say is that you either enjoy those meaningless, overhyped Smashing Pumpkins jams, or something with some value. There's music for everybody, and for nature kids there's plenty of it to choose from.
I see why they wrote “cut your hair” for Billy now lol
I was at the concert in Brazil that Billy mentioned. They mostly played new songs and the audience was not impressed.
The root cause here, IMO, is that Corgan takes himself really, REALLY seriously and couldn't handle Malkmus clowning on the Pumpkin's fans a little.
Billy hasn't gotten over it because being big mad about it 30+ years later keeps him in the news. Malkmus on the other hand seems to have moved on and has had a modestly successful solo career + a couple of Pavement reunion tours here and there.
BTW the full lyric of Range Life takes a shot at Stone Temple Pilots too. I don't recall anybody from that camp having a come apart over it.
The implication here is that Corgan is less relevant and less rich than Malkmus. Not the case, no. Corgan literally runs a major wrestling promotion, besides touring w a reunion Pumpkins lineup.
Also, there is no need to take oneself especially seriously to get mad at another band trashing you BY NAME in a song. And not just a song but a single. You do that, you get whatever's coming to you. Corgan got these bums removed from Lolla for it.
@@grayhudson1095 Corgan didn't get Pavement removed from Lolla. He states that himself and it's mentioned in this video. He was a fan of Pavement but just didn't get their sense of humour clearly.
@@gordonbennett7931 What's the humor in mentioning a band by name in a song and trashing them? I must not get their super hipsterish mysterious sense of humor either, to me it just looks like a bunch of jealous hipster dbags trashing a way better and more successful band by name. Apparently Corgan has the same limitations I do when it comes to understanding hipster dbag humor.
@@grayhudson1095 ''way better'' is just your opinion. Personally, I disagree despite being a fan of both bands. If you were a fan of Pavement or understood their music you would be in a better position to appreciate the humour of their lyrics and the fact that they couldn't care less about being ''hipster''. Corgan decided to take offence because of his ego and because he takes himself too seriously. Note, Pavement also made a passing comment about Stone Temple Pilots in the same song but STP understood that it meant nothing and weren't bothered in the slightest.
In all fairness, as melodramatic as he can be Corgan makes a pretty valid point about greatest hits tours.
I'm a fan of both bands and have always found this "feud" hilarious, mostly because it's basically just Corgan complaining about a jokey lyric for 20+ years. I think what really got to him was the "nature, kids, they don't have no function" part. He saw himself as the leader of the alt nation, the spokesman of his generation, so no function?
Leader of alt nation? Thats a ridiculous thing to prop yerself up as. Its lonely at the top
@@davidanchovies3340 Pavement could be pretty ridiculous in their own way as well. Again, fan of both bands, just looking at the absurdity of it all.
absurd how, I like when people are dismissive of garbage.@@enthronedking
Despite all my rage, I’m still just a rant in a cage
He had better band than you’ll ever have
It's "out on tour with Smashing Pumpkins I/THEY..." Stephen sings I and They at the same time because it's a self own and a dig at the same time.
Except that Malkmus (Pavement's primary writer) has been a musical powerhouse ever since he disbanded Pavement.
Billy Corgan confirmed for Super Smash Bros.!
Corgan was jealous because Pavement had the critical respect that the Smashing Pumpkins never got.
a) I thought "Range Life" was much harsher on Stone Temple Pilots, who laughed it off-- the song was joking about the bands' personas, including Pavement's
b) Stephen Malkmus has consistently made very good new, interesting music over the decades with Pavement, with the Jinks, and as a solo artist. Smashing Pumpkins has also... continued to make music. Billy Corgan seems confused about what happens when people don't keep the same band name when their band dissolves
c) I'm not saying Billy Corgan is the "problem" but he sure is the common denominator in these "feuds"-- when you're a rock star and you're feuding with a cable news network, maybe you have lost your focus a bit
People get on Billy for being so anal about his music but they refuse to see the pure genius of everything he does with it.
Im not a huge Smashing Pumpkins fan but i respect everything about them.
I wouldn't call Corgan a genius but he is meticulously passionate with everything he writes and creates, he really takes his music seriously (as it should be imo) - ironically he doesn't take himself too seriously but people think he does.
The guitar recording on all of Pumpkins' records are flawless, they are not just a mere fuzz pedal or a shoegaze trippy sound just thrown in the mix and I'm pretty sure that's Corgan.
No need to claim you're not a Smashing Pumkins fan to validate what you say. Relax, Smashing Pumkins fan.
Including him going on Alex Jones???
@@johnIZaUWL
Has absolutely nothing to do with his music.
@@Ricardo-cl3vs it DISCREDITS him as a human being and cranks up his Assholiness to ELEVEN so my respect for him even more nonexistent than when he started treating D’arcy like shit!
You’ve heard the stories yeah he’s NOT the first Ahole in rock n roll that people still appreciate for creative reasons but he’s done lots of collateral damage with those around him CLEARLY and I can call him on that BS!
It’s my right 😎
Pavement? But Space Ghost said they were The Beatles.
Billy Corgan was a dork selling faux angst to the alterna-teen crowd. Pavement was a great, original band.
(5:40) except the band DID put out a new record. Two in fact. I personally found it to be their best album in 20years. One of the new albums is also the first double album since Mellon Collie. And they are currently working on another double album that’s supposedly a “sequel” to Mellon Collie as well.
You mean "Oceania"?! Awesome album, great tracks, brilliantly produced. Imho Billy captured the essence of the Pumpkins sound.
If that album would have come out after "Mellon Collie" the Pumpkins would have become Rock gods. But it didn't. It came out over a decade too late to really make an impact. Billy's ego has missed it's time window and the world has moved on.
@@Ricardo-cl3vs actually, I’m talking about (first) Shiny and Oh So Bright Vol. 1 No Past No Future No Sun. The first album to have Chamberlain, Iha, and Corgan since Machina 2. It’s a KILLER record. Produced by Rick Rubin. According to Rick, when Billy played the demos, it was a rare instance of him actually loving every song. That typically just doesn’t happen. I still need to hear the double album CYR, but I’m pretty sure I’ll enjoy it as well.
When Billy says "cha ching" does he think that pavement gets any kind of money compared to him going out on tour? I'm sure they are not raking it in.
There's no money in making new music, and Lots of money for nostalgia reunions. This is the sad state of the music industry, and I feel really bad for kids that don't get to experience the anticipation of buying a new album from their favorite band.
And sometimes the new music isn't any good. So there's that. 🍻
No, but I'll happily support the Jicks. There's a very good reason Pavement isn't making new music. S.M. had a massive protracted breakdown in '99 and broke the band up and idk even the band was fully aware of it for years
@@jacobbieker8874 There are no longer the same incentives to make a great album with a great producer. It's all about quickly recording a single, releasing it and recording the next single. There are great bands and artists out there, and I'm not knocking new music at all. It's just a different system.
I was a fan of both bands. Loved them dearly.
I'm never surprised to see the title "Smashing Pumpkins ______ Feud."
I think billy is misunderstood a lot of the time, he values art and music to a degree where to most it comes off as pompous but they are missing his general enthusiasm for what he is doing. If your art isn't your world and you care about how people perceive you or it then you're not an artist.
I’ve followed him for a long time. Big fan of the music but not him. Especially in the early days. He hated and belittled people who didn’t write stuff as “good” as his but sold more first, then he started selling and they were the greatest but was miffed at losing some Awards or something to “lesser” bands, then sold more and chilled out, then started selling less and it’s everyone else’s fault, listeners included. He’s just here lately trying to come out and be cool about everything. He’s is the rock equivalent to rock as Phil Helmuth is to Poker. And that does come from passion, but it’s also arrogance and uncalled for. Don’t defend this guy.
Billy doesn't use any social lubricant. Which is why I really like him, but I can understand the backlash he gets.
@@jordancarpenter676 people can change over time, a few years ago he did a documentary here on the pumpkins channel and he did a lot of reflection on where he was as a artist and person and where he is now being a father and mending friendships. Also the pressure he must of been under during the melloncholly era must have been insane.
He was an artist. A rock star. These people thrive on drama and being notorious. It must have something to do with their type-A personality.
very well said dude!!!!
I like Pavement but I grew out of Stephen Malkmus' cynicism... Pavement's sound is not "just sound", it has that whole "lo-fi aesthetics" behind it like Yo La Tengo and it can be very tiresome sometimes...
Yeah, Smashing Pumpkins was thrown out of the "grungy kids table" at the time lol but in the end Corgan is the more coherent of them all, he doesn't suck up to mainstream artists but he also doesn't suck up to indie darlings like Mark Arm does it to MC5 remaining members, for example.
Grunge artists started the culture/trend of manufactured nihilism. I feel Billy is just a talking head, they all bitched about artists selling out but sold out in their own way.
Pumpkins definitely never sold out. Putting out Adore after MCIS is definitely not selling out.
@@grayhudson1095 they sold out sooo hard and it’s fine. Why not make the art you want and get paid and hav it reach the widest possible audience? That’s just young pride getting in the way.
@@Blade2vampirerave Um, what? I literally don't understand what you're talking about. The Pumpkins on the heels of their initial big success w Siamese Dream released a double album concept album thing full of random death metal songs mixed w random artsy songs. They followed that up w an album that I still don't know what the hell it even is, which they refused to tour normally. Not only did they not sell out w their records, they didn't sell out as a live act, either, and were weird and artistic in how they set up their live shows.
@@grayhudson1095 Making a commercial success before affording to flop? That sounds like selling out...
lol I love him knocking on Malkmus for doing reunion tours rather than writing new music when Malkmus had already released more solo albums than Pavement albums. Corgan needs to stop taking himself so seriously
This, last time I checked, Pavement's bass player was a bar tender...these guys aren't big rock stars. In other words, they can't afford to write shitty albums every three years like Corgan can, and they're in their 50s for christs sake.
I see a lot of Billy Corgan feuds. What does that say about him as a person?
Lol, who hasn't Billy Corgan feuded with? While the rest of us grew up, Billy seems perpetually stuck in Jr. High.
Yep. Someone kicked his ass in gym class and his development was arrested.
Pavement > Smashing Pumpkins
couple of my favorite bands. I love them both.
interesting
Been waiting for this one! Thanks man.
Billy takes himself to seriously.
So, what was Billy’s message?
That Pavement complained about them in the 90s (they didn’t) that Pavement should have a “social message” (they shouldn’t), that you need to put out new music if you’re an alternative act from the 90s (doesn’t matter if your new music sucks)
I feel like Billy usually almost has a point, but his ego gets in the way. Love how Pavement ended things respectably before they became a band with a revolving lineup and no good albums to show for it. Jicks catalog absolutely destroys the last two decades of Pumpkins output.
Uh, there is no last two decades of Pumpkins output. They are a 90s band that broke up at the end of that decade.
@@grayhudson1095 🤔
@@grayhudson1095 they were a band in the 90´s, and they became corgan´s solo project as time went on, with other members changing all the time
@@frankkkbard0n315 I am aware - post-Machina "Pumpkins" is neither truly the Pumpkins nor truly a Corgan solo project. It's in a weird inbetween place - he was trying to exploit the brand name but they weren't true solo records, he was constrained by the brand he was trying to exploit and had to stay doing sounds and styles he would rather not have. When he actually did an actual solo thing it was much different and way way way better than all post-2000 "Pumpkins" music. I love the Pumpkins (88-2000 or so) and I love Corgan's solo stuff. I have no use for the post-2000s "Pumpkins" stuff.
Would love to see a more modern stories on the pumpkins…
You could save yourself a lot of time by making one video called, "Billy Corgan's Feud with Every Other Contemporary Rock Musician."
A wise man once told me: “Billy Corgan looks like Uncle fester nowadays”
getting paid isn't selling out... Malkmus has trolled Corgan for 25 years and it's awesome
You should do an ep on How The Stone Temple Pilots are elegant bachelors.
They're foxy to me, are they foxy to you?
Malk > Corgan all day long. It's Rock&Roll for fuck's sake. Slanted and Enchanted shines beyond anything SP released.
absolutely! that triggercut ep changed my life.
First time commenter long time viewer. I love your videos! I’d love to see you do a video on one of the following bands sometime:
Miracle Legion
Drop Nineteens
Giant Sand
Rocket From The Tombs
Rock on! 🤘
Pavement are miles beyond the Pumpkins. And I’m a huge Pumpkins fan - I even have a tattoo of them.
No, they’re not. Watch their tonight show performance of Cut Your Hair. They’re fucking awful.
@@curly_wyn So your basing them on one live TV performance? I’m talking about the music and lyrics.
They’re bad performances were one of the best things about the band. Clue in.
you can hate billy all you want but thats just not true, and i like pavement
Billy Corgan is a rockstar and rockstars fued!
grunge was about killing the rockstar ego tho
Team Pavement for life.
Melancholy and the Infinite Sadness is the defining album of the 90s, but to make something that long lasting you often have to have a crazy ego like Billy Corgan. That's the trade off. I have heard he's a nice guy though and has never personally wronged anyone, he's just kind of has a snobbish attitude but he won't backstab you or anything. I like both bands and that will never stop
Yeah I like Billy Corgan, he can be nobhead sometimes but he had a shitty childhood so my guess is that his general 'threat level' is higher than most, which makes him overact to minor insults.
calling anything the smashing pumpkins did "the defining album" of the 90's is more than a bit of a stretch in my humble opinion. not trying to throw shade at you but albums like "nevermind", "vitalogy", "superunknown", even Metallica's "black album" would certainly have a claim to that title. Alanis Morrisette's "jagged little pill" and green day's "dookie" even sold better than melancholy, not that we are discussing sales but it's worth mentioning. it was a great album, dont get me wrong, but to say it defined the decade is very, very arguable.
@@_warren6659 It certainly is arguable, but there's a lot to back it up. It was the last mainstream album that set out to prove something on a grand scale and succeed. It marks the end of the 90s alternative scene and bookends the grand guitar rock culture from the 1960s through the 1990s. It also bridges the gap between the early 90s and the late 90s, which were a lot more different than people think. It's not the most important album of the 90s. Nevermind is certainly more important, as is dookie, and the effects of Jagged Little Pill are still be felt today. Hell, Siamese Dream is a way more important and impactful album than Melancholy and the Infinite Sadness, but I wouldn't consider it or any of those albums as a more defining album even if they are better. It acts as the last and culturally relevant "big rock album" "big moment" that we've had. By culturally relevant I mean stuff my grandma has heard of. Sure, Ok Computer and other releases since have been big moments, but they've never surpassed the cultural relevance that of Melancholy and the Infinite Sadness. It's the the last great and epic guitar record released into the mainstream and the last great album of the alternative 90s and the last great guitar album that fits in easily with the great and epic albums that came before it like The Wall, Quadrophenia, or Physical Graffiti. Nevermind is definitely more important album of the decade but Melancholy and the Infinite Sadness is more definitive of the decade and sums up the 90s better as a whole.
@@noahmichael2213 I agree with almost everything you said. I don't want to seem like a hater here. melancholy was... quite the grandiose effort. I would use caution, however, when including it with rock and roll masterpieces like the wall, the black album, etc. as again, in my opinion, it falls short of the bar. I consider siamese dream the pumpkins best work, and more encapsulating of their sound, as well as the sound of the 90's as a whole. just like you shouldn't buy championships in baseball (dodgers, yankees) you simply cant throw a ton of money at a musical effort in an attempt to buy masterpiece status like the pumpkins did with melancholy. that said, I cant be descriptive enough when talking about how I felt when I got that double cassette, and heard zero and bullet with butterfly wings for the first time. it was definitely a defining album of my formative years, and changed the trajectory of my taste in music. for life. but to call it "the defining album of the 90's" makes me feel bad about the other bands that put out work that matters more.
I'm Billy Corgan and I am a Dbag! Its all about me! I talk shit about alot of better. But I can't keep my band together! What a Dbag
Really like "Cyr" from last year.
Wonder what Billy Corgan thinks of Silversun Pickups?
how is this different from the one you did a year ago?
Oasis made it in Range Life video lol!
They also mentioned Stone Temple Pilots after the SP verse
Elegant bachelors
I’ll take “the Mudhoneys and Pavements” over smashing pumpkins every time.
And there were so many other good bands from the 90’s that weren’t part of the mainstream movement like Green Magnet School, Bedhead (actually, most of the bands on Trance Syndicate Records), The Showcase Showdown, Swervedriver, MBV, etc. Don’t let the bands that had videos on MTV be the only reference point to what was going on at the time.
@@scott12xu Bedhead!!! Yes!
Garbage and Pavement go together. There must be bands called Trashcan, Alleyway, and Curb somewhere.
And Stone Temple Pilots barely reacted to their lyric in Range Life. Corgan always took himself way too seriously.
"i dunno billy. weren't u a little hopped up on goofballs when u made that decision. try staying near the gateway or some anger management. case dismissed." *wiggin'*
After reading this video title, I was led to believe that Billy Corgan fought with literal street pavement.. I guess not.
Both bands are great
Pavement is good. Pumpkins? Meh.
Both bands are very important bands.
God damnit Billy
Didn't know about this one..through all these years..lol..Billy always feuding with somebody.
"phoning it in" billy corgan says completely oblivious to the fact that hes been doing that same thing for over 25 years
Ain't no reunions without D'cary Wretkzy
And ain't no d'arcy without crack and heroin. Somebody had to make a choice and billy chose.
I'm not knocking D'arcy. I'm in the same boat in the same city. We have no true idea of her experience with the band so her choices were hers alone. But Billy made the decision to go without her.
Ain’t Pumpkins with no D’Arcy
I thought he had a feud with a parking lot.
Corgan is petty as hell lmao
Very thin skin
3:23--Has Billy Corgan taken on social issues in recent memory? Has his music had a message that goes noticeably deeper than self-aggrandizement since the Zwan album? (And with that group, I think he was doing his routine of erasing bandmates' recordings nonstop w/o asking).
I like SP and need to look up Pavement. If there's this many feuds and the common denominator is Corgan then the most likely scenario is he keeps starting it and holy shit it doesn't surprise me, I've never seen him in interviews he seems like such a pretentious self-righteous sop. I reckon anyone mentioning him in anything other than good light would set him off.
billy always starting drama lmao
its like billy you dont have to use big words to gain peoples respect.
Love you D'arcy
Pavement were always a much greater band than Smashing Pumpkins. All of the members have kept busy (Stephen Malkmaus has made great solo albums thru the past few years). I would rather have Pavement keep their original magic alive, that record a new album of lesser material (like Smashing Pumpkins or The Pixies). Also, their 2022 tour was the best they're ever sounded. The played classics, b-sides, deep cuts... every show was unique and intense. I agree with the original Range Life lyrics about S.P. ...." I could really give a f..."
Pavement rules
who does this guy not have a fued with
Looks like you did this same content last year
Thank you! I remember commenting on it and thought I lost my marbles.
Billy Corgan seems to have feud with just about everyone.
I love Pavement. If S.M. wrote about me I'd hate to be the bulls eye of what he was shooting at. He's too funny & it would be useless to feud with him.
90s legacy artists need to take on social issues, Pavement needs to talk about social issues - Billy Corgan
I respect Billy for not being afraid to speak his opinion unlike most rock stars who pretend to live everything
I respect Malamud for speaking his.
feuds aside.. if i had a choice between only listening to sp or pavement or malkumus and the jucks, etc... i'd choose stephen malkumus... even though i don really agree with either one of their politics... malkumus music is awesome.
Billy Corgan seems seems like a fun guy.
Corgan was just mad he would never write a song as good as range life
Steve would kick the shit out of Corgan in a Tennis match, I will sponsor that match if they both agree!