I disagree about the base map not having that wow factor. Maybe 2 years has made people forget but the base map first playthrough was amazing. Every dungeon had that omg factor upon walking in. Mt Gelmir will forever be one of the best visual stories ever told. The first time walking into the capitol was a chefs kiss. I love the dlc map but I don’t feel like it just triumphs the base game.
It has a different wow factor. He's talking about the FromSoft style looping that we all fell in love with after that one ladder in DS1. We've been chasing that fix ever since. ER base does it some. SotE does it constantly. You gotta remember that he's comparing two different things that are both excellent, he's not really shitting on anything, he's just talking about what he likes. Max: "I'm a Bloodborne piece of shit bitch."
@@HandOfVecna1188 your correct. Elden ring is the first fromsoftware game I’ve committed too and beat. I’m running them back now so I’m sure I’ll understand better as I play through them.
the wow factor in the basegame map was the size more than anything. The actual layout of the maps wasn't bad by any means, but it was very safe. SoTE feels like one biiiiiig maze, which a lot of older players will for sure love.
It's refreshing to hear at 13:07 how Max reverses his original opinion from years back that "games aren't art, they have art in them", and especially when it comes to how Fromsoft delivers with what they make. Very much agree with his sentiment here.
Them being art or containing art would in the end result with the same implications though. I think what he meant before was games have graphics, music and writing which are all known forms of art, but then the combination of those would be considered art in it of itself. So it might seem like a big distinction at first, but it's essentially the same after you think about it. Idk that's how I thought about it.
My daughter and I were playing at the same time and the best part about the DLC is helping each other find different locations 😂😂 this DLC would have had a thick guide book had it came out in the 90s
I did the same with my brother, and after Rellana we went on our own ways and it was crazy how while I was going upwards and upwards he was going downwards continuosly
"Wonderful thing about this spot is you get these huge focal points..." *game decides now is the perfect time to become ridiculously foggy for some unfathomable reason*
as someone who's been diving into the lore and taking pictures to tell stories, the fog always starts to roll in when you're lining up those shots I swear.
I actually think the fog is awesome. Something I think Elden Ring nails and what most other games lack is the intoxication of not knowing and feeling lost. It all adds to the uncertainty of what you will find next and how you will get there. The DlC does this incredibly and imo its design and exploration is its best aspect
Brand new FromSoft player here. This game blew me away. I've been in a video game apathy slump like a lot of people, maybe because I hit my 30's. But Elden Ring grabbed the FUCK out of my arm and PULLED me into quite possibly my favorite ever experience in video games. And if you ARE a lore nerd, the amalgamation of pagan European mythology with Greek and Shakespearean tragedy is absolute primo stuff. I'd say, if Kubrick is the movie comparison, I feel like this game is high literature for video games. You can actually contemplate its themes and characters in ways other games just don't give you.
Your claim that Elden Ring pulled you out of a video game apathy slump resonates with me. That's exactly how I felt before I played Dark Souls in 2012. At the time, I felt that the industry was becoming bloated with military shooters; games that were made by businessmen instead of people who had a passion for games; tutorials that disrespected the player's intelligence; and, worst of all, extremely predictable and formulaic gameplay that was copied from whatever sold the most copies to the broadest demographic at the time. We need bold experiences created by crazy people from time to time to remind us that we chose this hobby for a reason.
What you said about being able to contemplate the game's themes and characters rings so true. I get what Max is saying about the World and Level Design being the backbone of these games, even more than the combat. And he's definitely right. But I also think that the real world inspiration and stories they create are what make those levels and worlds feel so...."tangible" for lack of a better word. Its gonna sound like sniffing our own farts to people who dont actually dive deep into the lore to understand the inspirations for so much of the designs, architecture and characters that we encounter in game but what FromSoftware and Miyazaki do is very much high literature compared to most other triple AAA games out there. We're only so lucky that they havent strayed from the vision even after gaining massive success.
Same here! I love RPG’s but no other game has made me feel this way in a sense of wonder and surprise. The map and setting are definitely a main character.
I love the DLC but my major complaint is that the story elements you do have no effect on the main game and vice versa... Wouldn't it be nice if Melania was different if you beat Miquella first? How about a Melina dialogue during the Messmer fight? How about Placidussax after you beat Bayle? How about going into Midra while under the Frenzied Flame? Small things here and there that would make it perfect. Gameplay-wise, I wish they did more with the Abyssal Woods... I know they are going for the creepy ambiance but the place is just too empty it's bordering lazy.
i gotta say i prefer abyssal wood 10X way more than the entire snow area in base because they have zero art direction , zero new enemies & boring looking area,, at least abyssal woods have new enemies types, & it leads you into S tier fight which is Midra
The only instance of that happening in Elden Ring from what I remember is if you do Maliketh's quest before going into his fight, he gives you different dialouge. After doing his quest, he will actually recognize you when entering the fight and be like "Why...?", as well as having a different death voiceline. But yeah different stuff like you said would be nice.
agreed, i remember that in ds1 if u did the DLC before SIF, he would recognize you so the intro is different... that always got me (cause after the dlc u REALLY DONT wanna kill him) and was reason enough for me to do the DLC first.. no such thing anymore these days >.>
I agree lots of good in the DLC but idk just didn’t resonate as much as the main game and other fromsoft dlc’s did…I still don’t like the choice of the final boss even though I loved fighting the final boss surprisingly I would have loved more connection with main game characters and cut scenes/speeches and maybe I’ll feel different on another play through. Maybe my expectations were too high? Also getting spoiled on all the bosses by accidentally looking at a twitter post doesn’t help😅
I don't agree with his take that Elden Ring wants you to play it a certain way sometimes, he literally gives you too many options. And I like the best areas of Elden Ring more than BB.
14:10 This has always been the backbone of all the Souls games, and so many people seem to have completely misunderstood what these games are actually about.
I think Elden Ring exists in a weird area where, did i enjoy my time with Elden Ring more than Bloodborne? Yeah. Would I enjoy a second Elden Ring playthrough as much as a second Bloodborne playthrough? Nah. So much of what makes Elden Ring special is the exploration and discovery, which you can only have once. Bloodborne's atmosphere is so strong that, along with its more visceral combat, it holds up better on repeat playthroughs Doesn't necessarily make either better than the other. They're both incredible games and it's worth it to play them both
Idk Bloodborne has some of the worst bosses in the series and they are required. (Micolash) Literally quit one of my playthroughs because he was being so fuking janky.
Halfway through SOTE I reinstalled Dark Souls 3 and did a playthrough. It was nice having a linear souls experience again after going through Elden Ring
8:43 This is me. I realized very quickly that the enemies were designed to trick players and catch them off guard. If that’s how they gonna be, then I embrace the cheese. I’m on that throne as Elden Lard, surrounded by wheels of cheese like Sheogorath. Age of the Erdtree? Age of the Stars? Nah. Age of the Cheese.
@@JoeyCentral You weren't burnt out after 3 runs in ds3 with the dlc cuz its a third of the size lmao. Always find it funny when people say ds3 didnt burn them out as fast through thier playthroughs. Ofc not, the game is way smaller ur gonna be able to do more run throughs before getting tired of it
@@JoeyCentralwell I would argue that Elden ring and it’s dlc specifically are designed to be done once. Because it’s such a huge game compared to the older fromsoft games. Now you are right that that does kinda heavily diminish the replay value, but I would argue that the first experience of Elden ring and the dlc is better than the first experience in any other fromsoft game.
The opening of this video absolutely nails it. Bloodborne still one of the absolute best and I really hope they go back to semi linear design and drastically reduce all the checkpoints. BB nailed it with its lamp placement.
@@train123z oh yeah i like the stakes of marika but i think we need much more spread out checkpoints while exploring to keep the tension up and a have a risk of running low on estus
The combat was always the weakest part of Elden Ring for me. The ashes of war are super anime and can be cool and fun, but in general it sorely lacked what I really enjoyed the most about souls combat: what I call the "dance of death". At its best souls combat has a rhythm to it, where even when you are fighting the camera you can almost *feel* when the next attack is going to come despite not being able to see it. You can hear the whoosh of a windup or get some other vague cue that tells you just enough, and you are conditioned by the combat to understand what is about to happen and when. The better you learn the rhythms and patterns, the more room you have to perform and maximize your offense. You try to do too much, you get punished for being greedy. Too little, you might make too many mistakes and get worn down. Elden Ring on the other hand, is very asynchronous. Lot's of delayed attacks, staggered attacks, arrhythmic moves and attack strings that change depending on your inputs, almost like it is designed to break up your conditioning and frustrate your attempts to adjust. Like it just wants you to use your anime bullshit and mash because if you just smack em enough they will poise break, which is more rewarding than being patient and defensive. Enemies are so aggressive and their moves are so "powerful" with so much range and tracking and so little recovery that it feels like everything you do is greedy... that you are always going to trade or be punished because every opening is fake. Especially with some of the late game bosses, It just becomes frustrating and annoying... where you either find a gimmick or just smash your head against a wall until it dies. The Shadow of The Erdtree and its bosses were the pinnacle of that for me. It was also the pinnacle of everything that makes Elden Ring great. Beautiful and mesmerizing in a way that the vast majority of modern games just aren't. I just wish the bosses were less about being pure spectacle and more about being enjoyable. I think the only main DLC bosses I actually enjoyed fighting were Romina and the Avatar... maaaybe Midra. Radahn would have been (arguably)great if he didn't have *THAT* move. Truly the peak of being forced into a specific solution or just trying again and again, waiting for a good sequence to materialize. For sure Bloodborne combat and its bossfights are the best blend of stylish and dramatic, yet fun to fight. At least in my opinion.
I was honestly disappointed in this DLC. The biggest issue I had was they have become far too focused on spectacle over gameplay. I hate that I can't really talk about this without it boiling down into an argument about difficulty... but here goes anyway: Radahn, Bayle, Dancing Lion, Metyr, any given dragon, the Furnace golems... they're all so focused on size and spectacle that they forget the player actually needs to fight the fucking things. Radahn has precise timing on his many combination swing attacks but if you're in melee range of him your view is from his crotch downward. The Lion nearly takes up 2/3 of the screen at melee range and its wild movements constantly take it out of view. The Furnace Golems just have you hitting its ankle in the most shallow boring combat in the whole game. Bayle is possibly the closest in getting "large bosses" right cause he hangs his head low enough to keep on camera. But then nearly every movement he makes puts the head out of range. For bosses like Radahn, you could solve like 90% of the issues people have with him by making him just 2/3 as tall as he is now. For others, FromSoft DESPERATELY needs a better camera system when fighting larger enemies. But that's not the only issue. The environment art for a lot of these zones is spectacular, no one is going to deny that. But what's actually in these environments? For the majority of the open world... I would say a good 75% of the enemies are just those shadow versions of peasants and basic soldiers. Seems they were just sprinkled in to fill spaces. Then you have some real stinkers like the Finger Ruins, which look amazing and have so much lore implication... but there's actually nothing you really get from exploring the space other than stunlocked by horrible leech enemies. And you can't pretend you weren't disappointed by the Abyssal Woods. SO MUCH hype, so much buildup. And what you end up getting is an empty zone filled with rats, with like the final stretch of it having a rather weak stealth section against humanoid enemies. With the size of the area and all the buildup, I was genuinely expecting some giant horrible thing stalking me through the woods. It was immensely disappointing. There's more than a few areas that have similar buildups with not a lot of payoff. It's not that I don't think overall the level design is good... it's just that they seem to have bit off more than they could chew and that leaves a lot of the areas underpopulated with half-baked gimmicks that don't really pan out. And then there's the NPC quests. GOD. These would have been such a good selling point on paper. In practice these are the most easy to fuck up questlines since fucking Dark Soul 1. Did you accidentally walk past a summon sign that was way off the beaten path? Well that's 2 NPCs locked. Did you enter a boss door? (ENTER, not BEAT) Well that's 2 more questlines locked. Did you give an NPC an item? Well, stupid! You should have talked to that NPC, gone up and talked to the other NPC, then talked to the NPC at the start again BEFORE giving him the item. 2 more questlines locked. Did you tell the fat stumpy guy to cheer up? Big mistake! Cause now both him and 2 other NPCs can now no longer progress. It's a fucking mess and I genuinely waited another month to progress the game just to see if FromSoft would do ANYTHING to fix the broken questlines... but they didn't. So clearly working as intended.
As a FromSoft and Max fan, I agree with Max on almost everything he said about the base game and the DLC. However, I have to disagree with the glowing praise for the map design. I know I'm in the minority, but hear me out. I understand the appeal of exploration. I love it too; having vantage points and visiting all that's visible, stepping toward point A and being pleasantly surprised to reach point Z. But my question is: *What's the point of a vertical build when seeing something doesn't help you get there?* In a typical FromSoft map, when you spend time and attention looking around, it isn't just for aesthetics and pleasure; there's always a strategic and navigational advantage to the act of observation. You see something above or below, you look around, and you find the way. The same goes for Elden Ring's dungeons as well. In SoTET, you can clearly see there's something above or below, but the entrance to it is nowhere near you. It's almost as if you didn't know it was there. An extreme example of this would be the entrance to [redacted] south of the map, which is in the [redacted] castle north of the map! That doesn't make practical sense, and to be honest, I found it disappointing and a touch annoying. If there's a single access to an area above or below you, and that entrance isn't in your vicinity, it isn't called "vertical building"; it's just horizontal building masquerading as vertical. It's like two stories of a building on top of each other with a single set of stairs connecting them. They might as well be next to each other. This felt weird to me, and having dabbled with a bit of AI map generation, I feel like they've utilized some AI assistance in spreading their map vertically. I suspect we're going to see more of this in future Soulslikes.
@@NightjarAves Thank you for reading through my absurdly long comment 😅 If my "AI bit" sounded like it was in poor faith, that is unfortunately my failure to communicate my intent properly. As someone who utilizes AI extensively in both my daily and professional life these days, I consider myself a strong proponent of the clever and measured use of AI within workflows. That's why I tried my best to word my semi-educated guess on the map generation as a mere observation and not a value judgment. To me, "AI-generated" doesn't equal "bad"; it just means "different" (which may or may not be good). I could be wrong, for sure. But based on my limited experience with AI-assisted map generators and randomizers, and considering how different SOTET's section placement is compared to the base game, I would bet on such utilization if I were a betting man.
@@Dr.UldenWascht I would agree with that were it not for the lore of the world, a large quantity of the areas have in-lore reasons for where they're placed, the finger ruins and the shaman village as an example, a lot of the locations are very deliberate in their locational placement, which I feel rules out the use of AI for anything more than minidungeon placement or the like
@@NightjarAvesIn a different world, I would love to discuss this more over a long Elden Ring session while sharing a few cups of coffee. As a fellow lore enjoyer, I would argue over how much of the juxtaposition of the DLC areas is actually lore-necessary and how much of it is just passionate speculation. But let's assume that all of it is intentional and manually designed. When I mentioned AI, it wasn't a question of "where each area is placed on the map," but rather "how it is placed to convey a vertical-looking design." You see, it isn't hard to assign stipulations to a model's input; something like, "area A needs to connect to areas B and C," etc. If my guess is correct, they've utilized a 3D map designer AI with specific prompts to create a vertical-looking map while keeping their intentional connectivity intact. Does that make sense? The result is something that indeed looks vertical, but for the most part, plays horizontally. Again, I have no stake in my guess, and it could absolutely be wrong, but do keep in mind that FromSoft have been experimenting with generative map design since their Bloodborne days and the Chalice Dungeons, and they've been doing it intelligently. An evolution of that is only a natural progression.
Anyone remember that messing with Sasquatch commercial? Where some dudes eat beef jerky then for some reason think messing with a 10ft ape-man is a good idea then gets tossed in the air? But yeah this was a good game.
I mean if I saw Sasquatch I would be in awe of his presence and try to get photo/video proof of him for the world to see. But Eldenring really is a top tier game.
An open world BLOODBORNE (with a jump button and a grappling hook and a tricked-out armored combat-ready batmobile-esque bicycle) on an Elden Ring scope (imagine demonic 19th century London/Paris/Amsterdam with abyssal/mountainous/icy wildernesses in between the three cities) just might take ALL my time and money (if it ever happens) but only because the Lovecraftian/gothic/vampiric atmosphere is my personal jam over the medieval wizards and dragons and divine fantasy world of Elden Ring. Replace magic and faith with alchemy and primitive firearms and get rid of the spirit summons. Only have story-based NPC allies with consequences. That's my dream game. Maybe. I dunno. I've been pretty satisfied with everything Miyazaki has cooked up so far, so....
tbh I'd be down for an open world Bloodborne BUTT not on the scale of base game Elden Ring. I'd rather it be more focused and layered like the DLC is. If they took the design philosophy of the DLC and used that as the basis and direction for an open world bloodborne it would be perfect. I felt like the world in base game was stretched out too much and many of the dungeons and bosses felt repetitive and to samey. I liked the less is more approach of the DLC dungeons.
As someone who doesn't like souls combat, man are they GORGEOUS. This is breathtakingly beautiful. I've tried so many times to get into souls games and I bounce off so hard. Maybe in the future I'll connect with one.
Fr the art direction is insanely beautiful, but I know people like you who hate the combat. If you can, try Bloodborne. I enjoy the gameplay there quite a lot, with Sekiro being even better.
Same here. I'm such a stan for Nioh/Ninja Gaiden and I can really go in on Elden Ring for its combat (especially considering all I see from everyone is spam jump attacks or spam ash of war and they act like they're doing something great with their bleed build), but the reason I do connect with Elden Ring is because of the different types of builds. Weapons galore. World exploration. It's literally got everything else on lock except the combat imo, but I'm not gonna knock it. No it's not God of War, but the presentation is great.
There's a video by Noah Caldwell-Gervais about grappling with Dark Souls that I recommend searching for. Don't be intimidated by its sheer length, after you grok his initial approach it might open your eyes to different ways you can engage with the combat in these games.
It's crazy how much I have in common with Max in terms of videogame taste. I agree with almost everything he says here. The art-film analogy was spot on. When I first played Bloodborne, it felt like when I watched Lynch for the first time, that s*** was just different. I still think Old Hunters and Ariandel/Ringed City are the best DLCs, though.
My friend recently played DS3+DLCs for the first time, and he thought Ariandel was ok except for Sister Friede. I couldn't really argue about the DLC being only "ok", what do you think?
@FireStarJutsu I think Friede was my favorite DS3 boss, so this makes me kind of biased on Ariandel's defense. But I really liked Ariandel's atmosphere and ambientation compared to Ringed City, for example. Although Ringed City has the best bunch of bosses for the package.
Going into the level design which I believed is one of the best ones in any game , the only complaint I have of the DLC is how empty some of the areas feel. There’s not much going on in some places which makes me wonder if they decided to not add at least a small boss because they didn’t have enough time. For example the Abyssal woods has an amazing atmosphere which reminded me a little bit of bloodborne but beyond that the exploration in that area is not good. There’s only like 2 cookbooks and then you have the mansion, not secret weapon or a frenzy boss or something beside the untouchables. I still think the DLC is amazing but I do wanted to see a little more in those areas.
I played Elden Ring DLC (day 1) and it was really good. Playing Wukong (day 1) makes me think that Wukong is just overrated. No hate since I completed Wukong (true and normal ending) 😂
at least those empty area is wayy better than snow area in base game lets be real because at least those empty area has some good art direction while snow area have zero appreciation
I think most people have a problem with the fingers areas, but to me those areas with their questline lead up to a very very unexpected boss, so I wasn't as disappointed.
The thing is that the main areas are so rich that there’s not much need for bloating the others. At least I feel like but I’m no game creator or expert.
I was terrified walking into the finger ruins of a dragon (like) field boss appearing spent a while wondering around looking for it (hadn't fount ymir yet
Loved the DLC. About to get my NG character there for my second run. I did the first run on NG+7 and kind of regretted it. Felt the NEED to summon Igon for Bayle and Ansbach + Thiollier for the Leda gank squad 3v5 so that I wouldn't be on those bosses for extensive periods. The map was really good. I'd partially agree it is better than the base game, though I will say the fact you have to take one very oddly specific route to reach the Abyssal Woods is kind of lame. Locking it behind a massive fortress gate to access the downstream river would've been better than simply having a random ladder and coffin take you to an entire legacy dungeon (+ catacomb leading up to it). About the Elden Bling, I do think it is sorely lacking. I'm still rocking Beast Champion but added Circlet of Light as the head piece (conveniently 88 poise with Bullgoat, so it's solid in pvp trades). I loved the holy incantations introduced, but I do wish we had more Paladin-ish plated armor with cloth decoration so that I could live the full Warrior of Light fantasy.
Difficulty of this game is based on your pride. If you're smart enough to use everything at your disposal, its easy. Bosses with one shot nukes fail when you realize the uplifting aromatic negates 99% of one hit of damage. I've rarely seen people use uplifting aromatic in boss fights. Just like how Bloodborne encourages you to use a gun, this game does the same with a shield. There's so many mechanics tied to a shield. A guard counter stance breaker build just annihilates bosses and so many people don't use shields in their builds.
Yh but u shouldn't be forced to switch builds to a guard counter build if u don't enjoy it. Bosses should be designed with different builds in mind, especially mage builds.
I agree with a lot of what max said, especially the level design in the dlc. It gave me the explore/discovery reward, similar to what I would experience with Zelda games or even Skyrim. Basically you see something in the distance and say to yourself ' i wanna go there.' My counter point is only on the armour design. I do agree that a lot of the drip seems quite lack lustre, but I would argue that the concept of the tarnished in Elden Ring is not meant to be like that. What I mean is, the character is not meant to look OP or godly, your character is meant to look like an underdog the whole time. Yes you can get cool pieces of armour, but often times they don't have the best stats. In fact if you want to wear the "best" stat armour, you're gonna end up looking like a cinderblock with legs. This point is driven further that when you do get the cool pieces of armour, they don't fit you very well! Like some helmets are way too big for you, or the cape is too long etc. The concept of the tarnished is that you are a lowly being up against gods. If you compare that to Bloodborne, you're a hunter so the concept is you're meant to be a badass of sorts. Same with Sekiro, he's a warrior bent on revenge/rescue, so the concept there is you're meant to feel like you're capable of pulling off this feat. Where as the Tarnished in Elden Ring, you're literally a random person. The opening quote for your character by the narrator is 'A Tarnished of no renown. Cross the fog, to the Lands Between.' Like, you're literally a nobody who got to the lands between by luck/fate. You may be destined for great things but your ending is not assured. This is what drives the concept of the tarnished. However, how the game makes you feel bad ass is from the weapons you get. When you get a godly weapon, it feels like you absolutely earnt it coz you, a nobody, went through so much struggle and somehow befell a god and you managed to wield their weapon whilst looking like a travelling warrior. This moment makes you feel 'maybe i can do this.' If the game did the route of giving you bad ass aesthetic armour, your victories won't feel as earned in my opinion. You would feel 'yeah this looks cool, but how am i gonna kill an angry jacked up dragon with this?' The journey of Elden ring is not meant to feel like you are a god among men. It's the opposite. You are meant to feel the struggle, you're meant to feel insecure. Coz when you get to the top of the mountain, you almost like you don't deserve the title of Elden lord. You're like 'holy shit, i did it.' You're not like 'of course i did it.' And I think that humbling quality is what makes you the better elden lord. Regardless of the ending path you chose as well! Whether you want to watch the world burn with madness or you become the consort of the one true god, you are by no means a god yourself.
I loved the fight so much. After fighting him for a couple of times I said: "I HAVE to fight him with no HUD..." to get the most cinematic experience and it was totally worth it even if I got my a$$ beat so many times 💀 I made a video of the fight in no HUD feel free to check it out if you'd enjoy that 🫡
Commander Gauis was probably the worst boss in the DLC, I have no issue with Radahn being as hard as he is cause I've been stuck on him for an hour now and I'm not even mad about it he's just so cool. Mesmeer was surprisingly easier than I thought he would be
I feel that Sekiro vs. Elden Ring feel. Sekiro was awesome, and Sword Saint is one of the best final bosses I have ever seen - but part of it is that there’s not really any builds, fights are designed around one playstyle, you can’t alter Sekiro much, and playthroughs feel same-y. Elden Ring significantly ramps up the freedom, wide world, wide array of ways to play, but also everyone will experience the same bosses differently.
Honestly, SOTE's length hurts it. I think the highs (Bayle, Messmer, exploring the fissure) from SOTE for me were higher than the highs in RC, but you remember the slower parts more. Nobody remembers the Dreg Heap when reminiscing about DS3... there definitely were low points to that dlc as well. Don't get me wrong, i loved both SOTE and RC. SOTE is the better DLC when i think about it, but it's easier to have rose tinted glasses about my memories of RC.
Bloodborne is still #1 for me as well. Elden Ring was a great game, just too long winded for me, definitely hoping they go back to smaller experiences in the future.
@@JRX6KEN Elden Ring is a one of a kind first experience no doubt. After playing through a second time prior to SOTE releasing, and beating the DLC I’m good never touching it again. Still play Bloodborne/The Old Hunters once a year.
To each their own! I've put it down and back up every few months. I've probably played through elden ring about 6 or 7 times now. The magic of the first play through can't be beaten, but I still feel so enamored by this game every time. Part of it is that I can't remember where everything is, so it's like I'm getting pieces of rediscovery as I explore the game again. ADHD is my unsung hero in this part of my life lmao
Mostly agree on the map design though I do have two minor criticisms of it. I think some of the secret areas such as Midra’s Manse were WAY too difficult for me to find without looking up a guide. In addition, I thought the Finger Ruins were too large to just be an empty area only usable for a specific quest line. Also, in terms of the bosses, the only thing I would add to what you said is that Bayle is also easily in the top 5 best FromSoft boss fights of all time along with Messmer. The sheer visual spectacle, build up, and epic scale of that fight completely took my breath away. Overall though this DLC was absolutely phenomenal and I think it is easily on par with Monster Hunter World: Iceborne and Bloodborne: Old Hunters as one of the best RPG DLCs ever made
@@HollowKnight21 Idk know how TF you found the ONE obscure ladder in Shadow Keep (which is nowhere near Midra’s Manse on the map) hidden behind a waterfall while also finding the illusionary wall and knowing to get in the coffin all without looking up a guide.
As far as level design go, I think FS intentionally made the vanilla areas feel more isolated to give you the impression that the world is much larger than it really is. Any open world would feel much smaller if you can see from one side to another.
I feel the opposite is true. Elden Ring feels a lot smaller with how every area is segmented by linear choke points compared to something like Witcher 3 or BoTW with everything being completely open. Elden Ring's map honestly feels less like an open world and more like just bigger Dark Souls.
They really should have found a way to integrate the Realm of Shadow into the base game and there should have been two ways to do it: - The current way through Mohgywn's Palace - Through the Divine Towers in the base game (specifically through the one with Ranni's corpse) Considering it's semi implied that the Realm of Shadow lies within that cloud in the center of the map, having this entire thing be in the dead center allows more connectivity to other regions. Hard problem to solve though. Start in the middle and you have way too many options. Start in Limgrave and progression is very linear but makes scaling easier to do.
They would have never done that because the Realm of Shadow being separate is one of the main points of the DLC, with Marika plucking it out to hide her genocide of the hornsent from her Golden Order followers.
i don't think a bloodborne port would be seen as "the next peak", tbh FromSoft has progressed so astronomically far past their form in Bloodborne that i think a lot of people wouldn't like it, especially those who come from Elden Ring as their first FromSoft game that said, if they pulled a Demon's Souls and added QoL things into a Bloodborne *remake*, THAT would be a different beast, but i don't know about an updated port/next gen remaster. hell i'd rather them never port it and just commit to a remake at this point; there's no reason to 1:1 port a 9 year old game. lmao
Max the problem with Bloodborne the game wasn't that popular Elden ring is what take the souls game to the mainstream and that's why we haven't have a Bloodborne PC Port yet
The map is convoluted in a way I find annoying. They wanted to encourage exploration and made exploration tedious. The entire map being a dungeon is cool in concept but the fact I could make my way through the entirety of the original map on foot and get through all of the underground as well in a pretty fun route. The dlc map is so convoluted and meant to make you go "oh crap, I went the wrong way. Then how do I get there? Guess I can't?" No I could get there I just didn't go through Cave A on Path C from Grace G. Charos hidden grave is so weird to get to and it has A dungeon, and A mini boss which is a boss from messmers area.
Easy to agree. Map design was so much better than in the original game. Of course open world was introduced then for the first time and I didn't like it from the start, but I got used to it over time and ended up liking it. I think this DLC combined open world of the original game to the closed world of the Dark Souls games and created something, which is better than neither of those two. When I was playing the original game, I said that they thought making open world would automatically make people feel more free while playing the game. That is totally wrong thinking. If you make open world, which is not designed well, it just feels like a GAME and empty area. The original game had this type of problems, but the DLC did not. They actually spent more time thinking about the map and how it is seen and experienced. They made areas, which are meaningfully different from each other and therefore memorable and they make map lively and it is keeping up the illusion that you are actually in a fantasy world and not playing a game. Another thing was the caves. Not there were much less of those and objective was not always to find a boss and kill it. Therefore those became more interesting too and they did not reuse bosses that much in this DLC, but sometimes they did even the bosses from the original game, which was pretty bad, especially amount of dragons was a bit too much, because I already fought against those way too much during the original game. This DLC totally surprised me on how large the map was and how much there was to see. They fixed many things from the original game, but they did not fix the weapons. I am playing a strength build and I simply cannot find any good options even to try out. Everything is scaling to other stats than strength. Maybe I can make some of those weapons good with heavy infusion, but I really don't know it without searching instructions online and I don't want to do that. There should be weapons which are clearly meant for certain type of builds, because most of the players are problably picking one at tha start and then sticking with it, because you don't have unlimited resources to keep testing what works the best. Therefore, I started the base game with some sword, then I got Rusted Anchor and basically played the whole game with it. Malenia was quite challenging and I decided to try out different weapons. Then I found Great Stars and I finished the rest of the game with it. I found nothing better during this DLC and I did not struggle in a way that I would have started to look for other weapon. Armors were a bit more interesting. I found two sets I started using instead of Lionel's set, so I am not complaining too much about that. If they can bring more interesting weapons for specific builds and make it more clear which weapons are good for which build, the game will go to the next level. Already now, Elden Ring and Dark Souls games are my favorite modern games by far. I thought I will never get a feeling I had when I was playing the original Diablo as a kid, but Dark Souls 2 did it for me. That was my first souls game and the dark atmosphere of the game and lore, which is not fed to you buy told in small pieces, which makes you interested and is not overwhelming you, because you can choose by yourself how much you want to hear of it. I really would like to play Bloodborne, but I don't have Playstation. I am lurking my sister's kids' playstation to be loaned when they are not interested of playing anymore. The good thing is that Elden Ring is so popular that there will be games like this in future, but I really hope they are spending the time needed to create good game instead of a cheap copy. If games like these do not have the atmosphere and you don't feel that it is an adventure, but only a game, I will not play that game after the first try.
open world is cool but i think they've made the best open world can be with elden ring, i hope they scale it back and make it more focused like the dlc for their next game(s)
I just wish the ending of the DLC was better. Even putting aside the contentious final boss, the DLC just kinda...ends. You come off the high of beating it and it just awkwardly plops you back in the arena with an anticlimatic cutscene and no sense of finality.
The DLC is great but yeah some boss like this last boss is really not that great it feel like that one friend watch you play Souls game and be like "this boss is not that hard just dodge the attack and attack back simple" after i best this last boss i say this boss is just Space Channel 5 game boss just Left Left Right Right and you had to Left Left Right Right with the boss so you can had one chance to poke it and repeat still great DLC for other so much fun but this last boss i don't feel like i accomplish anything beating it i just learn attack keep dodge and poke and with i got good RNG that boss will do easy punish attack
Max, hear me out: There’s plenty of sensible reason the two maps look and feel different. The Shadow realm is one realm, uncorrupted by the shattering of the Elden Ring, by the warring of nations and Gods. The main map quite conversely, is the result of everything that transpired before you start the game. Caelid is the way it is because of the fight between Radahn and Malenia. Liurnia is the way it is because the downfall of the house of Carina. I could go on. Each location is separated by strife and war, factions still battling each other in the name of those they follow. The realm probably was a bit more like the Shadow Realm, but the shattering of the Elden Ring changed it all.
I 100% agree with the main problem in Elden Ring that just got worse with DLC, is despite the game having more options than ever before to make YOUR build, it’s constantly funneling players into fighting a certain playstyle for its bosses, Especially with Consort Radahn. I, along with all my friends, had to respec/change our builds in order to beat him, and it just makes the wide variety of weapons/spells/etc feel wasted as a result.
I don't even know why they give you these flashy moves/spells that have crazy animation commitment. You might be able to use them in invasions and against trash mobs, but a boss isn't going to give you the breathing room to use them safely. Half of the time they don't do enough damage to be worth the commitment or mana cost, either. It's why you get Carian Slicer and use it for the entire game.
I think the only thing I ever have any issues with Soulsborn DLC is that there is never any real pay off for completing them it’s always just beat the last boss and then that’s basically the end of it. Surprisingly DS2 I think is the only one that gives you a reward outside of a cool new weapon with being able to get a brand new ending for completing all the DLC’s. Shadow of the erdtree gives you an optional cutscene at the end but it doesn’t really tell you much that you don’t already get from the normal story if your paying attention.
Fair review. I dont know if I agree about the map. I mean, its a smaller area so you can just stack everything. If the entire world map was like that i wouldnt work. I also think there's a case of recency bias here. But, its subjective and I agree with overall score if not how he got there. Funny to see him still so salty about Gaius
While the overall map was a massive improvement, I cannot help but be disappointed that the legacy dungeons never really did it for me. I was hoping for at least one of the dungeons to be like the capital, but even my favorite how do you going in very linear paths. Even if you used an alternative entrance, it didn't really do much for the dungeon itself.
I feel like I'm being a hipster and I don't wanna come off as it, but to me Shadow of the Erdtree and Elden Ring have kinda killed my interest in Souls like games, even FromSofts. I feel the team got the wrong message on why games like Demons Souls and Dark Souls were a hit. To me, Elden Ring has just gone full overboard with the Shonen like boss fights, very amazing looking but they're all undeniably samey. I only remember maybe like 4 bosses from the base game and with this DLC I only remember Messmer and that's a problem. Games like Bloodborne I remember Micolash for how weird and creepy his encounter is. I remember Gascoinge because he's the first other Hunter you technically fight in the game and moves so different from enemies up until then. I remember Maiden Astrea from Demons Souls for the fact she ends her own life and says a lot about her story. I remember Ornstein and Smough from Dark Souls because at that point, they were the ultimate test of your skillset like "you've made it to hell. Prepare to conquer". I don't feel there's a single boss in Elden Rings catalogue that hits that mark for me. (Radahn is the best one though and sticks out well, but there's not very many more) The only one that's close is Rennala because it starts off as an interesting encounter with her students protecting her, THEN you fight her. Some people say that's gimmicky, I consider it a unique experience. I recommend a video from Matthewmatosis that's from 2017 (before even Sekiro) called "The Lost Soul of Demons Souls", it basically its hard what drove me away from these games. I hope whatever FromSoft does next invigorates that sense of wonder and awe they did with Demons Souls and Dark Souls.
My feelings about this DLC is like the feeling I got from Game of Thrones. Superb quality, except for the ending... which unfortunately leaves a very sour taste despite the rest being really good.
Everything has to be beatable with every build (within reason) so it all comes down to the universal mechanics as the lowest common denominator (dodge rolling, as you said). Armored Core 6 has weaker universal mechanics (the dash dodge has no i-frames) so you are required to change your build a lot more often. A lot of players hated that though because they are attached to "their build." It's one of the weaknesses of having builds. Players see them as a form of player expression rather than see it as being given a wide variety of tools where they must pick the best tool for the current job.
You can dodge,movement dodge, jump, shield poke, spell spam, summon pokemon, summon other people help, use range weapon, oh dont forget you can parry. Like idk 90% sekiro gameplay only on parry which is not even universal game but focus on parry alone. What you guys really wanted was the "GUN" parry in bloodborned just like max.
@@mohdsarul1530 Not all of those are universal mechanics (e.g. spells and ranged weapons). It's not that there aren't other options, it's that almost every boss is designed to be beaten with just dodge rolling and jumping so it limits what bosses can do and how they are designed.
Agreed. They need to buff the other mechanics like guard counter and hyper armor. They also need to make perfect guard a normal feature and not a cracked tear. It needs to be a mechanic to save health and be another option
@@SuperMandibleclaw Except that mindset only applies when that one bigger thing has low quality stuff in it which SOTE absolutely does not. Bosses, OSTs, the design of areas, the quality of new weapons, armor, and spells are all top notch in my opinion.
@@Babshie The best way to put it. SOTE isn’t big for the sake of being big. That’s why I said it’s hard to compare to the other DLCs, it’s just so beyond everything they’ve done before.
The worse thing about BB dlc, was that there was only one released. I kind of don’t want a sequel to BB (but would definely welcome one), but I would love a a BB remake by bluepoint who did demon souls, give us the hunters nightmare dlc, and give us another dlc!
I love the dlc map, but I have one big problem with it. Because it is more condensed compared to the main game, it becomes more confusing to navigate with the many more levels it has. I don't know how many times I got to the point of "how to get up/down there"
I think the best DLC I have personally played is tied between Iceborne for MH and Blood & Wine for Witcher 3. Shadow of the Erdtree is a close contender. Maybe after Ive been in the dlc for as long i have the base game, my opinion will change.
I think my personal favorite is always going to be a toss up between Sekiro and Bloodborne, but I can't ignore how much you get as an experience with Elden Ring and the DLC. It's amazing and I really enjoyed it, but I just happen to like the more tailored experiences of Sekiro and Bloodborne a little more.
Everything that he talks about in the first couple of minutes I agree with SO MUCH and he articulated it better than I ever could have. I don't vibe with Elden Ring because it lacks focus compared to something like Bloodborne. I'm very pleased to hear there are other people out there like me, lol.
a game LIKE bloodborne, not quite a sequel but like another in THAT style released on PC would be incredibly appreciated. bringing BB to PC is cool and all but whatever man, give us the elden ring version of the BB style universe...
0:50 I was literally just thinking this about Sekiro this morning and why it's a more satisfying game. I think Elden Ring actually does itself a disservice by being built off of DS3s bare bones combat mechanics. The wide variety of builds can certainly be appealing, but the combat experience is so much less tight than a game with mechanics built from the ground up.
Old hunters is like 8 hours? It's great don't get me wrong but it being better than SotE? Yeah that's a hard one I still think SotE is the best fromsoftware dlc to date.
Old Hunters is a DLC while SotE is a true expansion pack like back in the days of old PC games where the expansion packs added whole new mini campaigns, not just a couple of levels. I like both, but they are very different. DS1,2,3, & BB DLCs are basically just legacy dungeons.
I can definitely see how the comparison seems odd. But if I were to put it in my own words, its a quantity vs quality issue The old hunters dlc had a ratio of 3/5 bosses which were good while the shadow of the erdtree dlc had around 5/11 which were good. For an easier number to understand old hunters is a 0.6 while SOTE is 0.45 Now ofc this is only form the view of bosses, if you found the maps to be more important than the bosses then my bad for focusing more on bosses.
@@salamid You fail to point out though that the remaining 6 bosses of SOTE's 5/11DLC bosses are VASTLY better than the remaining 2 of BB's 3/5 DLC bosses, atleast in my opinion. Metyr is one of my most disliked bosses in SOTE but even that boss beats Failures and Lawrence imo.
@@Babshie thats a great point actually. Thinking in a similar way though, Ludwig/Lady Maria/orphan are at such a level of quality experience that only Messmer and bayle match it (in my opinion bayle absolutely mops the floor with how much better he is than the bloodborne 3) so I would still say quality goes to old hunters as more accurately it has 3/5 GREAT bosses while the 5 good bosses of SOTE only have 2 standouts.
Finished it finally this week, was kind of glad it was over after THE boss fight, I felt burnt out by the end of it. Was a hell of an experience though, glad I rerolled a new character from scratch just so the difficulty felt mostly fair. Also uninstalled it the same day 🤣
"I'm not really a goth enjoyer"
max lied as naturally as he breathed.
Max: Not a goth enjoyer.
Also Max: “A hoonter must hooooont!”
Literally staring at the gyaru Morrigan with black lipstick in his mod and saying "I think this is awakening something in me." LOL
Lol
I disagree about the base map not having that wow factor. Maybe 2 years has made people forget but the base map first playthrough was amazing. Every dungeon had that omg factor upon walking in. Mt Gelmir will forever be one of the best visual stories ever told. The first time walking into the capitol was a chefs kiss. I love the dlc map but I don’t feel like it just triumphs the base game.
Agreed.
It has a different wow factor. He's talking about the FromSoft style looping that we all fell in love with after that one ladder in DS1. We've been chasing that fix ever since.
ER base does it some. SotE does it constantly. You gotta remember that he's comparing two different things that are both excellent, he's not really shitting on anything, he's just talking about what he likes.
Max: "I'm a Bloodborne piece of shit bitch."
No doubt, the map was so insane to this day I've never experienced anything like it
@@HandOfVecna1188 your correct. Elden ring is the first fromsoftware game I’ve committed too and beat. I’m running them back now so I’m sure I’ll understand better as I play through them.
the wow factor in the basegame map was the size more than anything. The actual layout of the maps wasn't bad by any means, but it was very safe.
SoTE feels like one biiiiiig maze, which a lot of older players will for sure love.
The DLC Map is just the biggest Legacy Dungeon they have ever made.
This map is what I was expecting from the base game honestly. Which speaks to how huge the base game ended up being (for better and worse).
yep with shadow keep as the key stone
100%
The DLC feels as big as DS1
@@LeUberTroll so what you're saying is this dlc is the darksouls 1 of elden ring?
It's refreshing to hear at 13:07 how Max reverses his original opinion from years back that "games aren't art, they have art in them", and especially when it comes to how Fromsoft delivers with what they make. Very much agree with his sentiment here.
Them being art or containing art would in the end result with the same implications though. I think what he meant before was games have graphics, music and writing which are all known forms of art, but then the combination of those would be considered art in it of itself. So it might seem like a big distinction at first, but it's essentially the same after you think about it. Idk that's how I thought about it.
My daughter and I were playing at the same time and the best part about the DLC is helping each other find different locations 😂😂 this DLC would have had a thick guide book had it came out in the 90s
Shoot they still do!
Well, Amazon will have the 352 pages guidebook of this DLC ready for purchase on September 20th!
@@PLBiohazard that’s great!
I did the same with my brother, and after Rellana we went on our own ways and it was crazy how while I was going upwards and upwards he was going downwards continuosly
"Wonderful thing about this spot is you get these huge focal points..."
*game decides now is the perfect time to become ridiculously foggy for some unfathomable reason*
Was watching this and thought "huuuuuuuh" 😅
It got shy about the compliment!
as someone who's been diving into the lore and taking pictures to tell stories, the fog always starts to roll in when you're lining up those shots I swear.
I actually think the fog is awesome. Something I think Elden Ring nails and what most other games lack is the intoxication of not knowing and feeling lost. It all adds to the uncertainty of what you will find next and how you will get there.
The DlC does this incredibly and imo its design and exploration is its best aspect
@DunkeyKonga thats dumb. The fog is annoying
Brand new FromSoft player here. This game blew me away. I've been in a video game apathy slump like a lot of people, maybe because I hit my 30's. But Elden Ring grabbed the FUCK out of my arm and PULLED me into quite possibly my favorite ever experience in video games. And if you ARE a lore nerd, the amalgamation of pagan European mythology with Greek and Shakespearean tragedy is absolute primo stuff. I'd say, if Kubrick is the movie comparison, I feel like this game is high literature for video games. You can actually contemplate its themes and characters in ways other games just don't give you.
Your claim that Elden Ring pulled you out of a video game apathy slump resonates with me. That's exactly how I felt before I played Dark Souls in 2012. At the time, I felt that the industry was becoming bloated with military shooters; games that were made by businessmen instead of people who had a passion for games; tutorials that disrespected the player's intelligence; and, worst of all, extremely predictable and formulaic gameplay that was copied from whatever sold the most copies to the broadest demographic at the time. We need bold experiences created by crazy people from time to time to remind us that we chose this hobby for a reason.
What you said about being able to contemplate the game's themes and characters rings so true. I get what Max is saying about the World and Level Design being the backbone of these games, even more than the combat. And he's definitely right. But I also think that the real world inspiration and stories they create are what make those levels and worlds feel so...."tangible" for lack of a better word.
Its gonna sound like sniffing our own farts to people who dont actually dive deep into the lore to understand the inspirations for so much of the designs, architecture and characters that we encounter in game but what FromSoftware and Miyazaki do is very much high literature compared to most other triple AAA games out there.
We're only so lucky that they havent strayed from the vision even after gaining massive success.
Same thing for me when it released, only I was 22
Same here! I love RPG’s but no other game has made me feel this way in a sense of wonder and surprise. The map and setting are definitely a main character.
Same didn't expect it to be one of my favorite games of app time (elden ring) but here we are me chugging sowing 250+ hours later and counting 😂😂
The map is the real DLC hero, Max has a very valid point.
I love the DLC but my major complaint is that the story elements you do have no effect on the main game and vice versa... Wouldn't it be nice if Melania was different if you beat Miquella first? How about a Melina dialogue during the Messmer fight? How about Placidussax after you beat Bayle? How about going into Midra while under the Frenzied Flame?
Small things here and there that would make it perfect.
Gameplay-wise, I wish they did more with the Abyssal Woods... I know they are going for the creepy ambiance but the place is just too empty it's bordering lazy.
i gotta say i prefer abyssal wood 10X way more than the entire snow area in base because they have zero art direction , zero new enemies & boring looking area,, at least abyssal woods have new enemies types, & it leads you into S tier fight which is Midra
The only instance of that happening in Elden Ring from what I remember is if you do Maliketh's quest before going into his fight, he gives you different dialouge.
After doing his quest, he will actually recognize you when entering the fight and be like "Why...?", as well as having a different death voiceline.
But yeah different stuff like you said would be nice.
That's generally the case in the games ds3 had 1 change in dualogue if u broke progression for shrine handmaiden
agreed, i remember that in ds1 if u did the DLC before SIF, he would recognize you so the intro is different... that always got me (cause after the dlc u REALLY DONT wanna kill him) and was reason enough for me to do the DLC first.. no such thing anymore these days >.>
I agree lots of good in the DLC but idk just didn’t resonate as much as the main game and other fromsoft dlc’s did…I still don’t like the choice of the final boss even though I loved fighting the final boss surprisingly I would have loved more connection with main game characters and cut scenes/speeches and maybe I’ll feel different on another play through. Maybe my expectations were too high? Also getting spoiled on all the bosses by accidentally looking at a twitter post doesn’t help😅
The DLC did not reward exploration enough. Those Ghost Glovewarts in the Coffin Fissure were so disappointing. Lol.
because people will just youtube nowadays
@@zerase84no they don’t take that into account when they make their games. So no that’s not why.
scadutree blessings were sure a good reward
Two things about Bloodborne: Frenetic action and THE vibes! Old Hunters DLC is the icing on the cake!
Never played it wish I could but no playstation
@@Someone-lg6dibuy one and play it. There's really no game like it.
I don't agree with his take that Elden Ring wants you to play it a certain way sometimes, he literally gives you too many options. And I like the best areas of Elden Ring more than BB.
Yep. The amount of "HOLY SHIT" moments that came with every new area is the highlight for me too. That and certain bosses (Bayle, Messmer, Midra).
14:10 This has always been the backbone of all the Souls games, and so many people seem to have completely misunderstood what these games are actually about.
To summarize: “LET’S GOOOOOOOO”
HELL YEAH!
I think Elden Ring exists in a weird area where, did i enjoy my time with Elden Ring more than Bloodborne? Yeah. Would I enjoy a second Elden Ring playthrough as much as a second Bloodborne playthrough? Nah.
So much of what makes Elden Ring special is the exploration and discovery, which you can only have once. Bloodborne's atmosphere is so strong that, along with its more visceral combat, it holds up better on repeat playthroughs
Doesn't necessarily make either better than the other. They're both incredible games and it's worth it to play them both
Idk Bloodborne has some of the worst bosses in the series and they are required. (Micolash) Literally quit one of my playthroughs because he was being so fuking janky.
@@reiswoodard6630agreed. Most of the good bosses are from the dlc
The DLC was absolutely beautiful and we are indeed blessed to have fromsoftware in our lives
Halfway through SOTE I reinstalled Dark Souls 3 and did a playthrough. It was nice having a linear souls experience again after going through Elden Ring
Did you finish SOTE?
@FireStarJutsu I did come back and finishing it up. I really enjoyed the "legacy dungeons" was really fun fighting up to the top of the tower.
@@dayymaaan8302 That's cool to hear 🫡
Did you check if you missed any optional bosses? There are quite a few 🏃♂️➡️
Elden ring is modern zelda from the alternate universe in which they iterate on zelda 2 going forward instead of zelda 1.
You can sum up the dlc experience to just wondering “how the fuck do I get there?” Every five minutes
Almost finished with Black Myth Wukong and then Visions of Mana. Then i will replay Bloodborne for 30th time probably.
8:43 This is me. I realized very quickly that the enemies were designed to trick players and catch them off guard. If that’s how they gonna be, then I embrace the cheese. I’m on that throne as Elden Lard, surrounded by wheels of cheese like Sheogorath. Age of the Erdtree? Age of the Stars? Nah. Age of the Cheese.
I still think the Ringed City is my favorite DLC they’re made but it is much smaller. They’re very close for best for me
Nah ringed city is much better than this one. I wasn’t burnt out after 3 runs in DS3 with the DLC unlike with SOTE
I enjoyed ringed city
@@JoeyCentral You weren't burnt out after 3 runs in ds3 with the dlc cuz its a third of the size lmao. Always find it funny when people say ds3 didnt burn them out as fast through thier playthroughs. Ofc not, the game is way smaller ur gonna be able to do more run throughs before getting tired of it
@@sxr1m584 Or maybe because Ringed City was just a much better DLC than SOTE?
@@JoeyCentralwell I would argue that Elden ring and it’s dlc specifically are designed to be done once. Because it’s such a huge game compared to the older fromsoft games. Now you are right that that does kinda heavily diminish the replay value, but I would argue that the first experience of Elden ring and the dlc is better than the first experience in any other fromsoft game.
The opening of this video absolutely nails it. Bloodborne still one of the absolute best and I really hope they go back to semi linear design and drastically reduce all the checkpoints. BB nailed it with its lamp placement.
Id only agree if they kept stakes of marika
@@train123z oh yeah i like the stakes of marika but i think we need much more spread out checkpoints while exploring to keep the tension up and a have a risk of running low on estus
@@Terron29 yeah I'm chill with lower checkpoint placement to add more stakes but i'm done with these runbacks lol
@@train123z 100 percent
The combat was always the weakest part of Elden Ring for me. The ashes of war are super anime and can be cool and fun, but in general it sorely lacked what I really enjoyed the most about souls combat: what I call the "dance of death". At its best souls combat has a rhythm to it, where even when you are fighting the camera you can almost *feel* when the next attack is going to come despite not being able to see it. You can hear the whoosh of a windup or get some other vague cue that tells you just enough, and you are conditioned by the combat to understand what is about to happen and when. The better you learn the rhythms and patterns, the more room you have to perform and maximize your offense. You try to do too much, you get punished for being greedy. Too little, you might make too many mistakes and get worn down.
Elden Ring on the other hand, is very asynchronous. Lot's of delayed attacks, staggered attacks, arrhythmic moves and attack strings that change depending on your inputs, almost like it is designed to break up your conditioning and frustrate your attempts to adjust. Like it just wants you to use your anime bullshit and mash because if you just smack em enough they will poise break, which is more rewarding than being patient and defensive. Enemies are so aggressive and their moves are so "powerful" with so much range and tracking and so little recovery that it feels like everything you do is greedy... that you are always going to trade or be punished because every opening is fake. Especially with some of the late game bosses, It just becomes frustrating and annoying... where you either find a gimmick or just smash your head against a wall until it dies.
The Shadow of The Erdtree and its bosses were the pinnacle of that for me. It was also the pinnacle of everything that makes Elden Ring great. Beautiful and mesmerizing in a way that the vast majority of modern games just aren't. I just wish the bosses were less about being pure spectacle and more about being enjoyable. I think the only main DLC bosses I actually enjoyed fighting were Romina and the Avatar... maaaybe Midra. Radahn would have been (arguably)great if he didn't have *THAT* move. Truly the peak of being forced into a specific solution or just trying again and again, waiting for a good sequence to materialize. For sure Bloodborne combat and its bossfights are the best blend of stylish and dramatic, yet fun to fight. At least in my opinion.
Agreed, the best way I can describe Elden Ring bosses is that it feels like you're fighting a cheap AI in a fighting game.
They need to just get rid of the roll and give us back the Bloodborne sidestep in their next Souls game.
@@fadingghost9723thats a stupid fkn take
I was honestly disappointed in this DLC. The biggest issue I had was they have become far too focused on spectacle over gameplay. I hate that I can't really talk about this without it boiling down into an argument about difficulty... but here goes anyway: Radahn, Bayle, Dancing Lion, Metyr, any given dragon, the Furnace golems... they're all so focused on size and spectacle that they forget the player actually needs to fight the fucking things. Radahn has precise timing on his many combination swing attacks but if you're in melee range of him your view is from his crotch downward. The Lion nearly takes up 2/3 of the screen at melee range and its wild movements constantly take it out of view. The Furnace Golems just have you hitting its ankle in the most shallow boring combat in the whole game. Bayle is possibly the closest in getting "large bosses" right cause he hangs his head low enough to keep on camera. But then nearly every movement he makes puts the head out of range. For bosses like Radahn, you could solve like 90% of the issues people have with him by making him just 2/3 as tall as he is now. For others, FromSoft DESPERATELY needs a better camera system when fighting larger enemies.
But that's not the only issue. The environment art for a lot of these zones is spectacular, no one is going to deny that. But what's actually in these environments? For the majority of the open world... I would say a good 75% of the enemies are just those shadow versions of peasants and basic soldiers. Seems they were just sprinkled in to fill spaces. Then you have some real stinkers like the Finger Ruins, which look amazing and have so much lore implication... but there's actually nothing you really get from exploring the space other than stunlocked by horrible leech enemies. And you can't pretend you weren't disappointed by the Abyssal Woods. SO MUCH hype, so much buildup. And what you end up getting is an empty zone filled with rats, with like the final stretch of it having a rather weak stealth section against humanoid enemies. With the size of the area and all the buildup, I was genuinely expecting some giant horrible thing stalking me through the woods. It was immensely disappointing. There's more than a few areas that have similar buildups with not a lot of payoff. It's not that I don't think overall the level design is good... it's just that they seem to have bit off more than they could chew and that leaves a lot of the areas underpopulated with half-baked gimmicks that don't really pan out.
And then there's the NPC quests. GOD. These would have been such a good selling point on paper. In practice these are the most easy to fuck up questlines since fucking Dark Soul 1. Did you accidentally walk past a summon sign that was way off the beaten path? Well that's 2 NPCs locked. Did you enter a boss door? (ENTER, not BEAT) Well that's 2 more questlines locked. Did you give an NPC an item? Well, stupid! You should have talked to that NPC, gone up and talked to the other NPC, then talked to the NPC at the start again BEFORE giving him the item. 2 more questlines locked. Did you tell the fat stumpy guy to cheer up? Big mistake! Cause now both him and 2 other NPCs can now no longer progress. It's a fucking mess and I genuinely waited another month to progress the game just to see if FromSoft would do ANYTHING to fix the broken questlines... but they didn't. So clearly working as intended.
As a FromSoft and Max fan, I agree with Max on almost everything he said about the base game and the DLC. However, I have to disagree with the glowing praise for the map design. I know I'm in the minority, but hear me out.
I understand the appeal of exploration. I love it too; having vantage points and visiting all that's visible, stepping toward point A and being pleasantly surprised to reach point Z. But my question is: *What's the point of a vertical build when seeing something doesn't help you get there?*
In a typical FromSoft map, when you spend time and attention looking around, it isn't just for aesthetics and pleasure; there's always a strategic and navigational advantage to the act of observation. You see something above or below, you look around, and you find the way. The same goes for Elden Ring's dungeons as well. In SoTET, you can clearly see there's something above or below, but the entrance to it is nowhere near you. It's almost as if you didn't know it was there. An extreme example of this would be the entrance to [redacted] south of the map, which is in the [redacted] castle north of the map! That doesn't make practical sense, and to be honest, I found it disappointing and a touch annoying.
If there's a single access to an area above or below you, and that entrance isn't in your vicinity, it isn't called "vertical building"; it's just horizontal building masquerading as vertical. It's like two stories of a building on top of each other with a single set of stairs connecting them. They might as well be next to each other.
This felt weird to me, and having dabbled with a bit of AI map generation, I feel like they've utilized some AI assistance in spreading their map vertically. I suspect we're going to see more of this in future Soulslikes.
I understand some of the frustrations here but the AI claim seems unfounded and made in poor faith
@@NightjarAves Thank you for reading through my absurdly long comment 😅
If my "AI bit" sounded like it was in poor faith, that is unfortunately my failure to communicate my intent properly. As someone who utilizes AI extensively in both my daily and professional life these days, I consider myself a strong proponent of the clever and measured use of AI within workflows. That's why I tried my best to word my semi-educated guess on the map generation as a mere observation and not a value judgment.
To me, "AI-generated" doesn't equal "bad"; it just means "different" (which may or may not be good). I could be wrong, for sure. But based on my limited experience with AI-assisted map generators and randomizers, and considering how different SOTET's section placement is compared to the base game, I would bet on such utilization if I were a betting man.
@@Dr.UldenWascht I would agree with that were it not for the lore of the world, a large quantity of the areas have in-lore reasons for where they're placed, the finger ruins and the shaman village as an example, a lot of the locations are very deliberate in their locational placement, which I feel rules out the use of AI for anything more than minidungeon placement or the like
@@NightjarAvesIn a different world, I would love to discuss this more over a long Elden Ring session while sharing a few cups of coffee. As a fellow lore enjoyer, I would argue over how much of the juxtaposition of the DLC areas is actually lore-necessary and how much of it is just passionate speculation.
But let's assume that all of it is intentional and manually designed. When I mentioned AI, it wasn't a question of "where each area is placed on the map," but rather "how it is placed to convey a vertical-looking design." You see, it isn't hard to assign stipulations to a model's input; something like, "area A needs to connect to areas B and C," etc.
If my guess is correct, they've utilized a 3D map designer AI with specific prompts to create a vertical-looking map while keeping their intentional connectivity intact. Does that make sense? The result is something that indeed looks vertical, but for the most part, plays horizontally.
Again, I have no stake in my guess, and it could absolutely be wrong, but do keep in mind that FromSoft have been experimenting with generative map design since their Bloodborne days and the Chalice Dungeons, and they've been doing it intelligently. An evolution of that is only a natural progression.
@Dr.UldenWascht bro , you yap too much
I really hope they go in the opposite direction next, something short and sweet, small and compact and dense.
Anyone remember that messing with Sasquatch commercial? Where some dudes eat beef jerky then for some reason think messing with a 10ft ape-man is a good idea then gets tossed in the air?
But yeah this was a good game.
I mean if I saw Sasquatch I would be in awe of his presence and try to get photo/video proof of him for the world to see.
But Eldenring really is a top tier game.
Those ads take me back man. Lol
Still DS3 Ringed City DLC is the best DLC in terms of gameplay and story imo
And old hunters
Nah
An open world BLOODBORNE (with a jump button and a grappling hook and a tricked-out armored combat-ready batmobile-esque bicycle) on an Elden Ring scope (imagine demonic 19th century London/Paris/Amsterdam with abyssal/mountainous/icy wildernesses in between the three cities) just might take ALL my time and money (if it ever happens) but only because the Lovecraftian/gothic/vampiric atmosphere is my personal jam over the medieval wizards and dragons and divine fantasy world of Elden Ring. Replace magic and faith with alchemy and primitive firearms and get rid of the spirit summons. Only have story-based NPC allies with consequences. That's my dream game. Maybe. I dunno. I've been pretty satisfied with everything Miyazaki has cooked up so far, so....
tbh I'd be down for an open world Bloodborne BUTT not on the scale of base game Elden Ring. I'd rather it be more focused and layered like the DLC is. If they took the design philosophy of the DLC and used that as the basis and direction for an open world bloodborne it would be perfect. I felt like the world in base game was stretched out too much and many of the dungeons and bosses felt repetitive and to samey. I liked the less is more approach of the DLC dungeons.
Gaius would be a top 5 base game bloodborne boss
💯
As someone who doesn't like souls combat, man are they GORGEOUS. This is breathtakingly beautiful. I've tried so many times to get into souls games and I bounce off so hard. Maybe in the future I'll connect with one.
Fr the art direction is insanely beautiful, but I know people like you who hate the combat.
If you can, try Bloodborne. I enjoy the gameplay there quite a lot, with Sekiro being even better.
Same here. I'm such a stan for Nioh/Ninja Gaiden and I can really go in on Elden Ring for its combat (especially considering all I see from everyone is spam jump attacks or spam ash of war and they act like they're doing something great with their bleed build), but the reason I do connect with Elden Ring is because of the different types of builds. Weapons galore. World exploration. It's literally got everything else on lock except the combat imo, but I'm not gonna knock it. No it's not God of War, but the presentation is great.
There's a video by Noah Caldwell-Gervais about grappling with Dark Souls that I recommend searching for. Don't be intimidated by its sheer length, after you grok his initial approach it might open your eyes to different ways you can engage with the combat in these games.
5 limgraves stacked on top of each other
It's crazy how much I have in common with Max in terms of videogame taste. I agree with almost everything he says here. The art-film analogy was spot on. When I first played Bloodborne, it felt like when I watched Lynch for the first time, that s*** was just different.
I still think Old Hunters and Ariandel/Ringed City are the best DLCs, though.
My friend recently played DS3+DLCs for the first time, and he thought Ariandel was ok except for Sister Friede. I couldn't really argue about the DLC being only "ok", what do you think?
@FireStarJutsu I think Friede was my favorite DS3 boss, so this makes me kind of biased on Ariandel's defense. But I really liked Ariandel's atmosphere and ambientation compared to Ringed City, for example. Although Ringed City has the best bunch of bosses for the package.
@@thisaintnoparty Yeah I'm kinda in the same boat. I really enjoyed the aesthetic. Heck, I even liked the Wolf boss 😂
@@FireStarJutsu the wolf boss fight is just npc fight with giant wolf that you already seeing before in previous ariandel area tough
Ringed City is still my favorite dlc of these bunch.
I thought I was gonna be the only person to say that
Mine too
@@puxtbuck6731 Nah don't worry, the Ringed City is top-tier.
Same part of it though was being disappointed in size of first dlc
Going into the level design which I believed is one of the best ones in any game , the only complaint I have of the DLC is how empty some of the areas feel. There’s not much going on in some places which makes me wonder if they decided to not add at least a small boss because they didn’t have enough time. For example the Abyssal woods has an amazing atmosphere which reminded me a little bit of bloodborne but beyond that the exploration in that area is not good. There’s only like 2 cookbooks and then you have the mansion, not secret weapon or a frenzy boss or something beside the untouchables. I still think the DLC is amazing but I do wanted to see a little more in those areas.
I played Elden Ring DLC (day 1) and it was really good. Playing Wukong (day 1) makes me think that Wukong is just overrated. No hate since I completed Wukong (true and normal ending) 😂
I agree the map design was really cool looking, however, quite a few areas ended up being mostly empty. It felt deceiving almost
at least those empty area is wayy better than snow area in base game lets be real because at least those empty area has some good art direction while snow area have zero appreciation
@@garciasth217 no argument here
I think most people have a problem with the fingers areas, but to me those areas with their questline lead up to a very very unexpected boss, so I wasn't as disappointed.
The thing is that the main areas are so rich that there’s not much need for bloating the others. At least I feel like but I’m no game creator or expert.
I was terrified walking into the finger ruins of a dragon (like) field boss appearing spent a while wondering around looking for it (hadn't fount ymir yet
Loved the DLC. About to get my NG character there for my second run. I did the first run on NG+7 and kind of regretted it. Felt the NEED to summon Igon for Bayle and Ansbach + Thiollier for the Leda gank squad 3v5 so that I wouldn't be on those bosses for extensive periods.
The map was really good. I'd partially agree it is better than the base game, though I will say the fact you have to take one very oddly specific route to reach the Abyssal Woods is kind of lame. Locking it behind a massive fortress gate to access the downstream river would've been better than simply having a random ladder and coffin take you to an entire legacy dungeon (+ catacomb leading up to it).
About the Elden Bling, I do think it is sorely lacking. I'm still rocking Beast Champion but added Circlet of Light as the head piece (conveniently 88 poise with Bullgoat, so it's solid in pvp trades). I loved the holy incantations introduced, but I do wish we had more Paladin-ish plated armor with cloth decoration so that I could live the full Warrior of Light fantasy.
He's wearing the bloodborne shirt, coincidence? I THINK NOT
Difficulty of this game is based on your pride. If you're smart enough to use everything at your disposal, its easy. Bosses with one shot nukes fail when you realize the uplifting aromatic negates 99% of one hit of damage. I've rarely seen people use uplifting aromatic in boss fights. Just like how Bloodborne encourages you to use a gun, this game does the same with a shield. There's so many mechanics tied to a shield. A guard counter stance breaker build just annihilates bosses and so many people don't use shields in their builds.
Yh but u shouldn't be forced to switch builds to a guard counter build if u don't enjoy it. Bosses should be designed with different builds in mind, especially mage builds.
I agree with a lot of what max said, especially the level design in the dlc. It gave me the explore/discovery reward, similar to what I would experience with Zelda games or even Skyrim. Basically you see something in the distance and say to yourself ' i wanna go there.'
My counter point is only on the armour design. I do agree that a lot of the drip seems quite lack lustre, but I would argue that the concept of the tarnished in Elden Ring is not meant to be like that. What I mean is, the character is not meant to look OP or godly, your character is meant to look like an underdog the whole time. Yes you can get cool pieces of armour, but often times they don't have the best stats. In fact if you want to wear the "best" stat armour, you're gonna end up looking like a cinderblock with legs. This point is driven further that when you do get the cool pieces of armour, they don't fit you very well! Like some helmets are way too big for you, or the cape is too long etc.
The concept of the tarnished is that you are a lowly being up against gods. If you compare that to Bloodborne, you're a hunter so the concept is you're meant to be a badass of sorts. Same with Sekiro, he's a warrior bent on revenge/rescue, so the concept there is you're meant to feel like you're capable of pulling off this feat. Where as the Tarnished in Elden Ring, you're literally a random person. The opening quote for your character by the narrator is 'A Tarnished of no renown. Cross the fog, to the Lands Between.' Like, you're literally a nobody who got to the lands between by luck/fate. You may be destined for great things but your ending is not assured. This is what drives the concept of the tarnished.
However, how the game makes you feel bad ass is from the weapons you get. When you get a godly weapon, it feels like you absolutely earnt it coz you, a nobody, went through so much struggle and somehow befell a god and you managed to wield their weapon whilst looking like a travelling warrior. This moment makes you feel 'maybe i can do this.' If the game did the route of giving you bad ass aesthetic armour, your victories won't feel as earned in my opinion. You would feel 'yeah this looks cool, but how am i gonna kill an angry jacked up dragon with this?'
The journey of Elden ring is not meant to feel like you are a god among men. It's the opposite. You are meant to feel the struggle, you're meant to feel insecure. Coz when you get to the top of the mountain, you almost like you don't deserve the title of Elden lord. You're like 'holy shit, i did it.' You're not like 'of course i did it.' And I think that humbling quality is what makes you the better elden lord. Regardless of the ending path you chose as well! Whether you want to watch the world burn with madness or you become the consort of the one true god, you are by no means a god yourself.
I started to hate why we always see the history instead of living doing them like in Sekiro/Bloodborne better stories
Bayle the Dread is literally one of the greatest fucking bosses I've ever fought in my piece of shit life
I loved the fight so much. After fighting him for a couple of times I said: "I HAVE to fight him with no HUD..." to get the most cinematic experience and it was totally worth it even if I got my a$$ beat so many times 💀
I made a video of the fight in no HUD feel free to check it out if you'd enjoy that 🫡
Maybe the most legendary FromSoft boss fight ever made. The buildup is just amazing.
@@armandoarrojo9841 I think it could honestly even surpass the likes of Gael, Isshin, Orphan etc
@@loomingmoon4682 it is at least on that same level dude
Midir is still the better dragon boss
Don't fight Gaius against walls and instead out in the giant field they supply.
He's very manageable then.
Commander Gauis was probably the worst boss in the DLC, I have no issue with Radahn being as hard as he is cause I've been stuck on him for an hour now and I'm not even mad about it he's just so cool. Mesmeer was surprisingly easier than I thought he would be
I feel that Sekiro vs. Elden Ring feel. Sekiro was awesome, and Sword Saint is one of the best final bosses I have ever seen - but part of it is that there’s not really any builds, fights are designed around one playstyle, you can’t alter Sekiro much, and playthroughs feel same-y. Elden Ring significantly ramps up the freedom, wide world, wide array of ways to play, but also everyone will experience the same bosses differently.
You should watch Ongbal Sekiro vids, and then you'll realize there's definitely builds/playstyles available.
Dark Souls 3 is still my jam. Elden Ring is great but it doesnt hit quite the same for me.
Honestly, SOTE's length hurts it. I think the highs (Bayle, Messmer, exploring the fissure) from SOTE for me were higher than the highs in RC, but you remember the slower parts more. Nobody remembers the Dreg Heap when reminiscing about DS3... there definitely were low points to that dlc as well. Don't get me wrong, i loved both SOTE and RC. SOTE is the better DLC when i think about it, but it's easier to have rose tinted glasses about my memories of RC.
Bloodborne is still #1 for me as well. Elden Ring was a great game, just too long winded for me, definitely hoping they go back to smaller experiences in the future.
For me Elden Ring is #1 and the DLC took it to another level for me
@@JRX6KEN Elden Ring is a one of a kind first experience no doubt. After playing through a second time prior to SOTE releasing, and beating the DLC I’m good never touching it again. Still play Bloodborne/The Old Hunters once a year.
@@allforhim2009ok? Lmao😂
To each their own! I've put it down and back up every few months. I've probably played through elden ring about 6 or 7 times now. The magic of the first play through can't be beaten, but I still feel so enamored by this game every time. Part of it is that I can't remember where everything is, so it's like I'm getting pieces of rediscovery as I explore the game again. ADHD is my unsung hero in this part of my life lmao
Mostly agree on the map design though I do have two minor criticisms of it. I think some of the secret areas such as Midra’s Manse were WAY too difficult for me to find without looking up a guide. In addition, I thought the Finger Ruins were too large to just be an empty area only usable for a specific quest line.
Also, in terms of the bosses, the only thing I would add to what you said is that Bayle is also easily in the top 5 best FromSoft boss fights of all time along with Messmer. The sheer visual spectacle, build up, and epic scale of that fight completely took my breath away.
Overall though this DLC was absolutely phenomenal and I think it is easily on par with Monster Hunter World: Iceborne and Bloodborne: Old Hunters as one of the best RPG DLCs ever made
? A lot of people including myself and almost all streamers I watched found Midra's Manse without any guide.
@@HollowKnight21 Idk know how TF you found the ONE obscure ladder in Shadow Keep (which is nowhere near Midra’s Manse on the map) hidden behind a waterfall while also finding the illusionary wall and knowing to get in the coffin all without looking up a guide.
As far as level design go, I think FS intentionally made the vanilla areas feel more isolated to give you the impression that the world is much larger than it really is. Any open world would feel much smaller if you can see from one side to another.
I feel the opposite is true. Elden Ring feels a lot smaller with how every area is segmented by linear choke points compared to something like Witcher 3 or BoTW with everything being completely open.
Elden Ring's map honestly feels less like an open world and more like just bigger Dark Souls.
They really should have found a way to integrate the Realm of Shadow into the base game and there should have been two ways to do it:
- The current way through Mohgywn's Palace
- Through the Divine Towers in the base game (specifically through the one with Ranni's corpse)
Considering it's semi implied that the Realm of Shadow lies within that cloud in the center of the map, having this entire thing be in the dead center allows more connectivity to other regions.
Hard problem to solve though. Start in the middle and you have way too many options. Start in Limgrave and progression is very linear but makes scaling easier to do.
They would have never done that because the Realm of Shadow being separate is one of the main points of the DLC, with Marika plucking it out to hide her genocide of the hornsent from her Golden Order followers.
10:40 I would’ve bet my life savings on Max giving Diallos’ armor a soyjack he is such a creature of habit LMAO
i don't think a bloodborne port would be seen as "the next peak", tbh
FromSoft has progressed so astronomically far past their form in Bloodborne that i think a lot of people wouldn't like it, especially those who come from Elden Ring as their first FromSoft game
that said, if they pulled a Demon's Souls and added QoL things into a Bloodborne *remake*, THAT would be a different beast, but i don't know about an updated port/next gen remaster. hell i'd rather them never port it and just commit to a remake at this point; there's no reason to 1:1 port a 9 year old game. lmao
Bloodboirne DLC bosses were super memorable,same with DS3
Max the problem with Bloodborne the game wasn't that popular Elden ring is what take the souls game to the mainstream and that's why we haven't have a Bloodborne PC Port yet
The map is convoluted in a way I find annoying. They wanted to encourage exploration and made exploration tedious. The entire map being a dungeon is cool in concept but the fact I could make my way through the entirety of the original map on foot and get through all of the underground as well in a pretty fun route. The dlc map is so convoluted and meant to make you go "oh crap, I went the wrong way. Then how do I get there? Guess I can't?" No I could get there I just didn't go through Cave A on Path C from Grace G. Charos hidden grave is so weird to get to and it has A dungeon, and A mini boss which is a boss from messmers area.
can't wait for mods to add Frenzy Dragons to abyssal woods
Easy to agree. Map design was so much better than in the original game. Of course open world was introduced then for the first time and I didn't like it from the start, but I got used to it over time and ended up liking it. I think this DLC combined open world of the original game to the closed world of the Dark Souls games and created something, which is better than neither of those two. When I was playing the original game, I said that they thought making open world would automatically make people feel more free while playing the game. That is totally wrong thinking. If you make open world, which is not designed well, it just feels like a GAME and empty area. The original game had this type of problems, but the DLC did not. They actually spent more time thinking about the map and how it is seen and experienced. They made areas, which are meaningfully different from each other and therefore memorable and they make map lively and it is keeping up the illusion that you are actually in a fantasy world and not playing a game. Another thing was the caves. Not there were much less of those and objective was not always to find a boss and kill it. Therefore those became more interesting too and they did not reuse bosses that much in this DLC, but sometimes they did even the bosses from the original game, which was pretty bad, especially amount of dragons was a bit too much, because I already fought against those way too much during the original game. This DLC totally surprised me on how large the map was and how much there was to see.
They fixed many things from the original game, but they did not fix the weapons. I am playing a strength build and I simply cannot find any good options even to try out. Everything is scaling to other stats than strength. Maybe I can make some of those weapons good with heavy infusion, but I really don't know it without searching instructions online and I don't want to do that. There should be weapons which are clearly meant for certain type of builds, because most of the players are problably picking one at tha start and then sticking with it, because you don't have unlimited resources to keep testing what works the best. Therefore, I started the base game with some sword, then I got Rusted Anchor and basically played the whole game with it. Malenia was quite challenging and I decided to try out different weapons. Then I found Great Stars and I finished the rest of the game with it. I found nothing better during this DLC and I did not struggle in a way that I would have started to look for other weapon. Armors were a bit more interesting. I found two sets I started using instead of Lionel's set, so I am not complaining too much about that. If they can bring more interesting weapons for specific builds and make it more clear which weapons are good for which build, the game will go to the next level. Already now, Elden Ring and Dark Souls games are my favorite modern games by far. I thought I will never get a feeling I had when I was playing the original Diablo as a kid, but Dark Souls 2 did it for me. That was my first souls game and the dark atmosphere of the game and lore, which is not fed to you buy told in small pieces, which makes you interested and is not overwhelming you, because you can choose by yourself how much you want to hear of it. I really would like to play Bloodborne, but I don't have Playstation. I am lurking my sister's kids' playstation to be loaned when they are not interested of playing anymore. The good thing is that Elden Ring is so popular that there will be games like this in future, but I really hope they are spending the time needed to create good game instead of a cheap copy. If games like these do not have the atmosphere and you don't feel that it is an adventure, but only a game, I will not play that game after the first try.
I just wish the dlc sky skybox had more colour. It kind of got bland after a while.
open world is cool but i think they've made the best open world can be with elden ring, i hope they scale it back and make it more focused like the dlc for their next game(s)
Find someone in your life that loves you like Max loves Bloodborne.
I just wish the ending of the DLC was better. Even putting aside the contentious final boss, the DLC just kinda...ends. You come off the high of beating it and it just awkwardly plops you back in the arena with an anticlimatic cutscene and no sense of finality.
The dlc world design is closer to BOTW. It connects inclusively instead of being connected sandboxes.
Amazing DLC, if only it had a couple more DS3 quality boss fights then it would be perfect for me
hit after hit. armored core 6 and then ER dlc. it's a banger. can't wait for them to make Armored Core 7 or probably expansion for AC6.
Every time I hear max said bloodborne I smile: Let's GOOOOOO. surely we will had a sequel after 10 years
I find after I’ve killed an enemy once, it’s less intimidating and I’m confident I can kill it again. 🤷🏾♂️
The DLC is great
but yeah some boss like this last boss is really not that great
it feel like that one friend watch you play Souls game and be like "this boss is not that hard just dodge the attack and attack back simple"
after i best this last boss i say this boss is just Space Channel 5 game boss just Left Left Right Right and you had to Left Left Right Right with the boss so you can had one chance to poke it and repeat
still great DLC for other so much fun but this last boss i don't feel like i accomplish anything beating it i just learn attack keep dodge and poke and with i got good RNG that boss will do easy punish attack
Max, hear me out: There’s plenty of sensible reason the two maps look and feel different. The Shadow realm is one realm, uncorrupted by the shattering of the Elden Ring, by the warring of nations and Gods. The main map quite conversely, is the result of everything that transpired before you start the game. Caelid is the way it is because of the fight between Radahn and Malenia. Liurnia is the way it is because the downfall of the house of Carina. I could go on. Each location is separated by strife and war, factions still battling each other in the name of those they follow. The realm probably was a bit more like the Shadow Realm, but the shattering of the Elden Ring changed it all.
I 100% agree with the main problem in Elden Ring that just got worse with DLC, is despite the game having more options than ever before to make YOUR build, it’s constantly funneling players into fighting a certain playstyle for its bosses, Especially with Consort Radahn. I, along with all my friends, had to respec/change our builds in order to beat him, and it just makes the wide variety of weapons/spells/etc feel wasted as a result.
I don't even know why they give you these flashy moves/spells that have crazy animation commitment. You might be able to use them in invasions and against trash mobs, but a boss isn't going to give you the breathing room to use them safely. Half of the time they don't do enough damage to be worth the commitment or mana cost, either. It's why you get Carian Slicer and use it for the entire game.
I think the only thing I ever have any issues with Soulsborn DLC is that there is never any real pay off for completing them it’s always just beat the last boss and then that’s basically the end of it. Surprisingly DS2 I think is the only one that gives you a reward outside of a cool new weapon with being able to get a brand new ending for completing all the DLC’s. Shadow of the erdtree gives you an optional cutscene at the end but it doesn’t really tell you much that you don’t already get from the normal story if your paying attention.
Kung Fu Panda Po: “Did I hear a scudoosh?!!”
(Skadoosh?!!)
Not going to lie as great as bloodborne is I don’t think it’ll do as well as y’all think especially because it’s not open world
Ok, I was gunna bash the Bloodborne glazing, but he acknowledged it.
It really is the best 👌
@@Naruto735 Max disagrees with you.
Why do people have a problem with Max liking BB?
@@calfae01same like people keep bashing why Ds2 is bad when it does not. Biased opinion.
Different opinion = glaze.
Worst bosses is lightning dragon right before Bayle, and 2nd phase Radaahn, guess what is the similarities between them? And this is the worst thing.
Am I the only one who felt miserable playing this DLC except for the last boss, Rellana, Messmer and Bayle?
Yeah, zones are pretty but empty af and final boss is 4ss. 7.9/10
the best fromsoft dlcs were the ds2 coz they made that game into a 8/9 out of 10. but in all honesty it's artorius since it set the standard
Fair review. I dont know if I agree about the map. I mean, its a smaller area so you can just stack everything. If the entire world map was like that i wouldnt work. I also think there's a case of recency bias here. But, its subjective and I agree with overall score if not how he got there. Funny to see him still so salty about Gaius
The ending of this was a weird cut to the outro but glad MaxDood loved the DLC
While the overall map was a massive improvement, I cannot help but be disappointed that the legacy dungeons never really did it for me. I was hoping for at least one of the dungeons to be like the capital, but even my favorite how do you going in very linear paths.
Even if you used an alternative entrance, it didn't really do much for the dungeon itself.
I feel like I'm being a hipster and I don't wanna come off as it, but to me Shadow of the Erdtree and Elden Ring have kinda killed my interest in Souls like games, even FromSofts. I feel the team got the wrong message on why games like Demons Souls and Dark Souls were a hit. To me, Elden Ring has just gone full overboard with the Shonen like boss fights, very amazing looking but they're all undeniably samey. I only remember maybe like 4 bosses from the base game and with this DLC I only remember Messmer and that's a problem.
Games like Bloodborne I remember Micolash for how weird and creepy his encounter is. I remember Gascoinge because he's the first other Hunter you technically fight in the game and moves so different from enemies up until then. I remember Maiden Astrea from Demons Souls for the fact she ends her own life and says a lot about her story. I remember Ornstein and Smough from Dark Souls because at that point, they were the ultimate test of your skillset like "you've made it to hell. Prepare to conquer". I don't feel there's a single boss in Elden Rings catalogue that hits that mark for me. (Radahn is the best one though and sticks out well, but there's not very many more) The only one that's close is Rennala because it starts off as an interesting encounter with her students protecting her, THEN you fight her. Some people say that's gimmicky, I consider it a unique experience.
I recommend a video from Matthewmatosis that's from 2017 (before even Sekiro) called "The Lost Soul of Demons Souls", it basically its hard what drove me away from these games. I hope whatever FromSoft does next invigorates that sense of wonder and awe they did with Demons Souls and Dark Souls.
Lol when you said the fights becoming more shonen like I immediately thought about matthew matosis
My feelings about this DLC is like the feeling I got from Game of Thrones. Superb quality, except for the ending... which unfortunately leaves a very sour taste despite the rest being really good.
Michael Zaki did a phenomenal job with this one.
0:53 I feel that it's the lack of universal mechanics, the fact that you can just roll through everything limits the game a lot
Which is one of the reasons why I enjoyed Sekiro's gameplay a shit ton.
Everything has to be beatable with every build (within reason) so it all comes down to the universal mechanics as the lowest common denominator (dodge rolling, as you said).
Armored Core 6 has weaker universal mechanics (the dash dodge has no i-frames) so you are required to change your build a lot more often. A lot of players hated that though because they are attached to "their build." It's one of the weaknesses of having builds. Players see them as a form of player expression rather than see it as being given a wide variety of tools where they must pick the best tool for the current job.
You can dodge,movement dodge, jump, shield poke, spell spam, summon pokemon, summon other people help, use range weapon, oh dont forget you can parry. Like idk 90% sekiro gameplay only on parry which is not even universal game but focus on parry alone. What you guys really wanted was the "GUN" parry in bloodborned just like max.
@@mohdsarul1530 Not all of those are universal mechanics (e.g. spells and ranged weapons).
It's not that there aren't other options, it's that almost every boss is designed to be beaten with just dodge rolling and jumping so it limits what bosses can do and how they are designed.
Agreed. They need to buff the other mechanics like guard counter and hyper armor. They also need to make perfect guard a normal feature and not a cracked tear. It needs to be a mechanic to save health and be another option
Damn I just cannot agree with the Old Hunters being better. It’s hard to even compare the other games’ DLCs to SOTE due to how huge SOTE is.
Being bigger does not equal being better
@@SuperMandibleclaw right
@@SuperMandibleclaw Except that mindset only applies when that one bigger thing has low quality stuff in it which SOTE absolutely does not. Bosses, OSTs, the design of areas, the quality of new weapons, armor, and spells are all top notch in my opinion.
@@SuperMandibleclaw this is still the dumbest argument for downgrading er
@@Babshie The best way to put it. SOTE isn’t big for the sake of being big. That’s why I said it’s hard to compare to the other DLCs, it’s just so beyond everything they’ve done before.
The worse thing about BB dlc, was that there was only one released. I kind of don’t want a sequel to BB (but would definely welcome one), but I would love a a BB remake by bluepoint who did demon souls, give us the hunters nightmare dlc, and give us another dlc!
I love the dlc map, but I have one big problem with it. Because it is more condensed compared to the main game, it becomes more confusing to navigate with the many more levels it has. I don't know how many times I got to the point of "how to get up/down there"
I think the best DLC I have personally played is tied between Iceborne for MH and Blood & Wine for Witcher 3. Shadow of the Erdtree is a close contender. Maybe after Ive been in the dlc for as long i have the base game, my opinion will change.
I think the dlc was good but not better than the base game unlike other fromsoft dlcs, it was still great but the exploration was lacking a lot
I think my personal favorite is always going to be a toss up between Sekiro and Bloodborne, but I can't ignore how much you get as an experience with Elden Ring and the DLC. It's amazing and I really enjoyed it, but I just happen to like the more tailored experiences of Sekiro and Bloodborne a little more.
Everything that he talks about in the first couple of minutes I agree with SO MUCH and he articulated it better than I ever could have. I don't vibe with Elden Ring because it lacks focus compared to something like Bloodborne. I'm very pleased to hear there are other people out there like me, lol.
Are we going to get a review of Black Myth: Wukong from you Max?
Base Game had horizontal map and DLC was vertical.
Thought you may like the backhand blades
a game LIKE bloodborne, not quite a sequel but like another in THAT style released on PC would be incredibly appreciated. bringing BB to PC is cool and all but whatever man, give us the elden ring version of the BB style universe...
0:50 I was literally just thinking this about Sekiro this morning and why it's a more satisfying game.
I think Elden Ring actually does itself a disservice by being built off of DS3s bare bones combat mechanics. The wide variety of builds can certainly be appealing, but the combat experience is so much less tight than a game with mechanics built from the ground up.
Old hunters is like 8 hours? It's great don't get me wrong but it being better than SotE? Yeah that's a hard one I still think SotE is the best fromsoftware dlc to date.
Old Hunters is a DLC while SotE is a true expansion pack like back in the days of old PC games where the expansion packs added whole new mini campaigns, not just a couple of levels. I like both, but they are very different. DS1,2,3, & BB DLCs are basically just legacy dungeons.
@@TheCrewExpendable Indeed, I think they're sort of incomparable in that aspect.
I can definitely see how the comparison seems odd. But if I were to put it in my own words, its a quantity vs quality issue
The old hunters dlc had a ratio of 3/5 bosses which were good while the shadow of the erdtree dlc had around 5/11 which were good. For an easier number to understand old hunters is a 0.6 while SOTE is 0.45
Now ofc this is only form the view of bosses, if you found the maps to be more important than the bosses then my bad for focusing more on bosses.
@@salamid You fail to point out though that the remaining 6 bosses of SOTE's 5/11DLC bosses are VASTLY better than the remaining 2 of BB's 3/5 DLC bosses, atleast in my opinion. Metyr is one of my most disliked bosses in SOTE but even that boss beats Failures and Lawrence imo.
@@Babshie thats a great point actually. Thinking in a similar way though, Ludwig/Lady Maria/orphan are at such a level of quality experience that only Messmer and bayle match it (in my opinion bayle absolutely mops the floor with how much better he is than the bloodborne 3) so I would still say quality goes to old hunters as more accurately it has 3/5 GREAT bosses while the 5 good bosses of SOTE only have 2 standouts.
Finished it finally this week, was kind of glad it was over after THE boss fight, I felt burnt out by the end of it.
Was a hell of an experience though, glad I rerolled a new character from scratch just so the difficulty felt mostly fair.
Also uninstalled it the same day 🤣
Is it just me or does the land of shadow looks like it fits right in that big hole in the middle of the lands between🤔