How Does A Boeing 737 Handle On A Full Stall?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ส.ค. 2024
- Alaska Airlines will begin putting new pilots through a 4-hr. upset recovery and prevention indoctrination that includes full stalls and a host of other potential loss-of-control scenarios. Aviation Week senior editor John Croft demonstrates recovery from several full stalls during his sampling of the training in Alaska Airlines’ Boeing 737-800 simulator.
![[UNCUT] “อภิสิทธิ์” ครม.อุ๊งอิ๊ง แย่งเก้าอี้กันฝุ่นตลบ “ทักษิณ” บงการเอง Iคนดังนั่งเคลียร์I 21ส.ค.67](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/a_b-kItw2jY/mqdefault.jpg)
When I was learning to drive manual on a 92 Honda Civic I became an expert at recovering from full stalls.
The stress level is also comparable as traffic begins to build up.
How fast was your Honda Civic flying at the time that it stalled? Did it have a huge spoiler?
hahahahahahaha good one!
just point the nose into the ground and you’ll be fine
Paul Leroux fucking same
"Low Altitude at 15,000 feet."
::Cessna 172 Pilot has left the chat::
😂
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHA
2-OP: is this hell?
Piper cub pilot left the building
CESSNA 172 PILOT : HYPOXIA HAS ENTERED THE CHAT
That's nice to do in a sim. I was aboard a flight test when we stalled aircraft. Twice. 737-200s back in the 90s. I was a QC inspector. It wasn't fun.
what was actually happening? did it feel like a rock?!
@@CrazyTunesRecords I think he was bullshiting..
It's a 71, but it really isn't fun when you're in a stall which also flips you upside down
watch?v=L2CsO-Vu7oc
Crazy Tunes Records in a stall the 737 nose will drop rather quickly, and type have to keep the wings level or the plane will roll rather violently. Combined with the nose at nearly 70 degrees, looking down at the Cascade Mountains, there was definitely pucker factor. That was the second time, different aircraft. The first time it was a stall, the Captain pulled the nose up too early and incurred a secondary stall. Much milder in the first aircraft but still a little edgy because the PF did not have a good grasp on 737 stall recovery. That was evident. And no bullsh&tting @C150flaps, or whatever your name is.
Did you survive?
All of a sudden every commenter on youtube has 40+ years of pilot experience? woaahh
Lmfao me too . Actually 60+ years
I've been flying airplanes since ww1. I used to be called the red baron, but now I go as lemmingrush and I make youtube comments
I used to fly balloons in the 1790s with my brother, but now I'm here to make TH-cam comments ;-)
+Romano stfu Romano noob I have 9000 years of flight time
I landed the space shuttle. Still Waiting for my astronaut wings.
Stalls in light aircraft are inconsequential, easily flown into and out of. Stalls in jet aircraft, because if their high-speed low-drag wing designs, are much more difficult. It's good to know that at least someone is teaching stall recovery in jets.
Jets are required to have some flaps down at below certain speeds, which make them easier to slow down. Nobody wants to do a stupid full stall with no flaps on a jet when you all know you need flaps to slow down for all approaches, landings and take off.
Inconsequential? Such a statement borders on insanity!
@@feetgoaroundfullflapsC Flaps help you slow down in the pattern but their purpose is to shave 60-70kts off the approach and takeoff speed. Speedbrakes are best for reducing airspeed or controlling it during a steep descent. Stalls have happened with transports in the clean configuration. Remember Air France A330 over the Atlantic? Pilots need to practice stall recoveries in all configurations.
I think what he means is that small SEL Cessnas aren’t bricks with wings and “want” to fly and don’t lose thousands of feet if you recover from a stall right away.
@@feetgoaroundfullflapsC Flaps are not used to slow down, that is the job for speed brakes. This is one of the typical questions on an exam. You can descend the landing gear, provided that you are under max speed to deploy landing gear if you ever need to reduce airspeed such as in a rapid descent. Flaps have structural limitations and it's one of the reasons flaps are not used for slowing the plane down. In addition, there is a change in airflow and angle of attack incurred. So, with flaps comes a proper understanding of their use and how it affects the dynamics of the aircraft.
I have 1800 hours on Microsoft flight simulator and I approve this video!
Im from the future there is a new Microsoft flight sim coming August 18 2020.
Ahh the ol hot air balloon doing 500knots guy.
On 737-MAX you don't stall plane, but plane stalls you.
@SumOfIt Fucked is another issue / arena; This ( the Moron Control Augmentation System ) is Clowns at work; Kudos to this air-carrier for approaching the system correctly but tell their instructors to review all candidate flyers if they have any idea what stall control is;
SumOfIt actually they were. In the case of ET302 and JT43, they did. The procedure to turn off MCAS is 5 decades old.
The plane doesn't "stall" you, it puts you in a nose dive.
First A320 ever stalled right into a forest with 136 on board. LoL
broomsterm I talked to a Southwest pilot at
Las Vegas. He said they love the MAX.
I have 30 years experience flying on aircraft as a very annoying passenger. I didn't see the pilots concern for my peanuts and martini in this video
lmao. They were too busy keeping you and your peanuts alive.
Do you want your peanuts and martini? Or your life? Your choice.
@@aidennothing5707 why so serious
Maybe if you could afford a private jet you'd be served food and drink during the stall. 👌🏻🛩
@viraltaco
r/whooosh
I always thought it was weird to get a commercial license you never have to full stall an aircraft. its recovery at first indications. good to see faa implementing this. as a pilot in training I think this is a wonderful training exercise
Not true, you full stall airplanes in training hundreds of times.
Yeah, I was just about to say I am completing my commercial certificate right now and I’ve stalled the plane so many times, but not only that I think he has a misunderstanding of what a commercial license means
Wow this is amazing. 4:04 is pretty important, when he stresses "GENTLE" pitch input.
It's HUGE.
I JUST this moment learned that as pilots are learning about aircraft in the simulators, the people who design the simulators are learning about pilots with respect to aircraft. That's great!
The student is also the teacher. awesome!
Holly Molly on those secondary stalls ! Eye opener right there !
It would have helped if he had increased thrust as part of the initial stall recovery.
@@thecheeta the secondary stalls happened because the pilot tried to recover to a level attitude too quickly, which exceeded the critical angle of attack.
I'm no pilot, but I remember watching in a video that increasing the thrust prematurely would cause the airplane to pitch up because the engines are mounted below the wings...
There's a lot going on when a swept wing transport category jet stalls, from independent stall warning systems, stall prevention systems, auto slats, engines that kick into high idle, etc, but if you take the actual aircraft into a forced "clean"stall it can easily get inverted with a little too much spoileron input.
That's on a Boeing or McDonnell Douglas, and older jets behave differently than the newer series. There's also significant altitude loss involved, and that's why a takeoff/departure stall is so dangerous. Unfortunately those can happen down low, when you're heavy and there's not enough altitude to recover. Read about some of those stall accidents online, and you'll see how deadly that type can be.
We only do full stalls in test flying between 15000-25000 feet. Usually start the maneuver closer to fl250. On some aircraft, we have to overcome or work around systems designed to prevent stalls entirely, because the mission is to confirm that the aircraft performs full stalls correctly.
I'm glad that full stalls are being taught to line pilots nowadays. It will only make things safer for everyone.
E Z sctually they both crashed beacuse of MCAS failure + Pilot error
@@chaoticalfunctionality5944 -- Both of those 737 MAX crashes the pilots/drivers kept insisting on turning autopilot on many times, even if airplane was doing strange nose dives. Automation Dependent Dodos.. they just like to seat there and push buttons or do mild maneuvering only.. Lazy ... That is like a driver insisting in using Cruise Control, even when it surges forward towards traffic every time you hit that button, Then he rear ends a tractor trailer, then tell the cops, the cruise control did it, not me...IDIOT or not...
@@feetgoaroundfullflapsC Settle down there, doc.
@@mudchair16 Why?? It is fun to look for solutions, instead of been coward and look the other way. Im a solutions orientated person.
5feetgoaround fullflapsC150 yet you provided no solutions, only name-calling and criticism.
It's funny how he has to keep saying "for training purposes only." Do they think their pilots are going to go out and do this on an actual flight for fun?
see the reply above yours
@@taroman7100 You know they move around, right? And this comment will show up on top for me. I have no idea what you're referring to.
You took it out of context.
I think the point is that he is having them respond in a way that you would not in reality. At that first sign of stall, you would take action, you wouldn't let it develop so far. The instructors want to distinguish what things are being done to intentionally upset the aircraft, verses what things are being done to recover.
@@75supercourse you would think that, but no. Planes have crashed from pilot error due to stalls.
I played a loud "BACK ANGLE" sound to my sleeping pilote house mate.... LOL
Stall recognition and recovery has always been part of the training. Whats new here is that its done at cruise altitude. This is because of the AF447 accident where the pilots held the aircraft in a stall all the way to the ocean from an altitude of 38,000 ft. If we really want to simulate this lets do the exercise without indication of airspeed, climb/decent rate and at night with no horizon out the windows.
And most importantly all Pitot tubes were blocked by ice. That must have been really hard to diagnose a stall in that situation.
But there is a procedure for that case!
Every plane has instructions in its manual for maintaining safe speed, which is basically a certain pitch combined with a certain thrust setting ( I think in a A330 it is 5° pitch up at 85% thrust setting ).
The fact that the pilots never mentioned it lets me assume that their training for such a situation was not offered.
That is not excuse though for their bad CRM, which seemed to be more like a kindergarden than a effective communication between crew members.
verne ment
The problem was that it was an Airbus.
Are you referring to AF447 or AA8501?
Why do pitot tubes were blocked by ice?
My basic CFI insisted that I would master CRITICAL ATTITUDE RECOVERY..recovery from from fully developed stalls..accelerated and slow induced..or Spins..For this I owe him my life...instead of death crashing into the ground
SAFE RECOVERY..THKS DAVE!!
JFC that stick shaker is more terrifying that what is portrayed in crash re-enactments!
apparently the stick shaker killed 2 flight attendants and the 6 passengers in the front row
The stall signs he described are exactly what happened to Af447 yet those guys didn't realise it was a stall. Weird.
Panic.
The AF pilot flying didn't execute the proper recovery (he continued to pull back). When the other pilot gave a nose down input the automation wasn't able to reconcile the differences and they dropped 35K+ feet. I flew airlines through 2004 and we never practiced this. Only one day of sim training went above 5000 feet and that was to practice rapid decompression recovery. Only approaches to stalls (low altitude) were demo'ed.
@@halb37plus in a 737 (including a 737 sim) wouldn’t this be much more recoverable because the way the yoke works makes dual input impossible, unlike on airbus aircraft?
@@ExperimentIV Yes, in an aircraft with conventional yoke controls (mechanically linked) the largest input, or strongest pilot, is what is sent to controls. Practically speaking it allows each pilot to "see" what the other is doing.
If you folks don't think this can ever happen I was a witness to it happening. A 747 in front of us going into Hong Kong at cruise altitude and speed (MACH .85) Hit bad turbulence in a thunderstorm and went into a high speed stall and literally fell out of the sky. They eventually recovered but severe damage was done to the airplane. They were very lucky. I won't say anymore as I knew the captain, he used to work for us. But enough said on that.
I'm a pilot with 154 years of experience (136 with American airlines) and let me tell you we are trained for every possible outcome.
Fmancillaz lmao
I feel safe about reading that.
That's a lot of years experience not gonna lie
How high are you? 🤨
@@rajdeepmandal1556 10,000 ft, son.
"Tex Johnston" was doing these for fun in the 60s.
In a real airplane
Very good job getting out of both Stalls
I learned 2 stalls are never the same.
The two in the front seats made it look real easy even tho I know it's scary and sometimes challenging to get out of a stall at notice. Good work.
Perhaps Congress should have mandated this training instead of 1500 hours and ATP for the right seat of a Regional jet. Stick and rudder skills, what an amazing concept!
Congess Fs up everything, all a pony show to gain feelz with the uneducated voting masses.
The FAA is the designated expert and should have been left to do their jobs. The Colgan flight that was propped up as a poster child would not have been affected by any of the changes and actually could have been prevented by simple enforcement of existing rules, the problem was that Colgan was running a pilot mill and actively employing rubber stamps, several instructors had previously refused to endorse the pilot in question during his training, even noting in the logs that he didn't have the aptitude. I've met pilots that were sent to that training center by other airlines and they said it was a horror show of "memorize what will be on the test and nothing more".
Meanwhile they do something as rock stupid as approve remote pilots in place of copilots... really should write a representative about this one.
Cars have already been hacked, and assuming the onboard pilot has the power to disconnect (in the event of a hack) this also leave the on board pilot with 100% power with nobody there to mitigate. And of course the cockpit is locked so other flight crew can't assist...
@@mytech6779 --Big Flight Schools Managers in USA went to congress to demand that 1,500 hour to be a copilot crap. They just wanted to keep the new CFI's as their wage slaves staying at the flight school for 80 hours a week and only be paid for 30 hours of flight as an example. The managers of some of those big pilot mills get kickbacks a lot from rich families to pass the clumsy or coward. Just like big USA colleges do too. Racketeurs Managers are the cause of most USA GA accidents. And did you know most of those accidented by pilot error pilots outside USA were trained in USA too. Crooked Managers that cant do forced landings on take off or low go arounds on the flight school airplanes are the cause of most USA accidents via bribery and corruption.
Congress cowards instead of punishing the flight schools like Comair that was passing many chumps as captains and panicky pilots as copilots should be the ones PUNISHED FOR KILLING PASSENGERS.. But...NOOOOO!! lets punish the low time pilots instead by making them stay as a poor and overwork slave of the rich flight school owners and manager crooks. They punished the poor as usual and gave more slaves to the rich big flight school crooked owners, the real root of the problem..
Most times USA Congress sides with the desires of the very rich or rich corporations... Congress say "Screw the hard workers, they dont have the big lobbyist that control us.. Fuck the poor workers most USA congress they say to themselves. And the corruption in colleges and flight schools is still there..
As a simtech here, this is a great experience in a sim, but damn the updates to the motion system are beating our sims up. The motion cueing is pretty intense
Looked more difficult to avoid the secondary stall than recovering from the initial stall.
Very interesting. I don’t recall any mention of the use of thrust as part of the recovery . In any event , the 737 having underslung engines, application of thrust generates a very large pitch up couple, which can induce the stall again. Oddly , in order to counter the rapid nose pitch up (due to thrust application ) the pilot may have to push forward on the control column, simultaneously applying nose down trim on the pickle switches, to limit the the nose pitch up. If this cannot be done quickly enough, the pilot must be prepared to reduce thrust somewhat to maintain control, ( and prevent a further stall ) an action which is totally opposite to what one would normally expect.
Fly it above the service ceiling and you could simultaneously stall and overspeed (vmo).
aaaaand back in coach, my seat, just fore of a bulkhead lav, I'm probably shitting my pants.
whats scarier than stalls is the lost of elevator effectiveness during stalls. Thats when I'd be shitting in my pants.
T tail is not your friend in this regard. The more broad the mainplane at the wing roots, the worse it gets; the worst in history was probably the Gloster Javelin, with a T tail behind a delta wing. The F-104 Starfighter was also not immune in this regard - fat low aspect ratio wing and T tail was a bad combination there too.
james rabbit wasn't that the one where it's wing got clipped by a private jet and damaged it's ailerons or Hydraulic fluid and flat spinned and you could hear the F/O almost begin to cry?
From what I understand, the heavies roll of the Boeing line and are flown out over the ocean where they can be yanked and banked to be fully checked out. I would assume stall testing is included in the regimen.
I know the carrier (United, American, etc) testing of a four-seven that needs cold soak involves a most un-commercial climb out profile- they stand that thing on its tail and firewall the throttles to get it up to altitude as quick as possible. Many unorthodox maneuvers can take place during that testing, and I doubt stall testing would be much more stressful provided the airframe NE limitations were observed.
You are confusing airworthyness testing with pilot training. This video is about the latter.
When I flew Spads in the First World War, we did this training in much more advanced simulators at 45 000 feet.
Guess that was spads of fun.
The 737 solves the problem by going nose down into the ground.. permanent solution the plane will never stall again!
"max"
@Blair Aquila BMW and Mercedes
*has left the chat*
I wonder who validated the post-stall aerodynamics model for the sim.
Hawx1163 - I used to hear a lot of concern about "negative training" -- teaching pilots the wrong response -- if the models weren't correct.
I'm glad to hear Boeing has done the flight testing and wind tunnel testing.
Some really, really brave men
Nelson Brown
The simulator cannot mimic a full stall exactly, because of its own limitations. But it's close enough for training on the newer series aircraft.
jetpowered1 - All models are wrong, some models are useful. -- George Box
I'm not even a pilot and know that when you stall, you point your nose down. It's common sense.
I think a lot of beginner pilots would prefer to do their first stalls in a simulator except that I don't think they are made for Cessna 172s and Pipers!
Many new pilots worry about their first stall lesson but stalling out a single-engine Cessna and Piper aircraft is a walk in the park and very predictable.
Stalling a PA28 is nothing like this, very undramatic. Add power, push the nose down gently and you will fly along happily 100 feet lower...
My first flight lesson was power off stalls at night in a 172M. There is only one way to really get the feel for it, and that's by doing it. Your flight instructor will want to take you out and practice the real thing...unless, of course, the flight school just got a new Redbird simulator and want to start making some ROI.
In my opinion it looks like a lot of crashes that has begun whit a stall has occurred because the pilots never or way to late actually understood that they had stalled the aircraft. To Believe in the warnings given by the aircraft and take the right decisions whit zero preparations must be the hardest task to start whit.
With. Its spelled "With".
@@tyson31415 Ops sorry! Typical when swedes take on English.
I have flown in the cockpits of small prop planes with my dad who was a pilot and flight instructor, but I've never been in a simulator for a large jet aircraft like this. Watching the attitude indicator at the moment of stall actually made my stomach drop a little. Yikes.
The sad part is, Denny is correct...many pilots of the big boys are trained to do procedures and run computers....shut that stuff down and many can't do the simple flight ops we do in private pilot training....I always said, "don't show me how to fly a plane, show me how to crash it "...If you know why they crash, you can learn to avoid that....I have had 3 engine failures on take off and an aircraft try to rip itself apart in flight so I am speaking from experience....
Didn't go into a spin though so was the procedure ailerons neutral stick light pressure Forward, trim off, speed positive then pull back?
I was a WW2 pilot and commercial airline pilot for 55 years. This guy would have ruined all of the peanuts if Mr. Positive wasn't telling them how to fly the plane.
As a pilot for over 50 years (and flying every week still) I am aghast at the poor level of training of the average airline pilot trainee. Those maneuvers (without the benefit of stick shakers and voice announcements) were considered basic flight training for the Private Pilot Certificate. As well as demonstrating entry into spins and spin recovery was part of the final check ride to be signed off to fly a bug smasher. I still do one engine out entry into stalls and recovery just for the heck of it every few months as well as shutting down an engine in flight and restart. I consider it just your minimum level of skill necessary to call yourself a pilot. That people are being put behind pilots who cannot do that basic stuff is mind boggling..
The reason Sully saved his passengers is that he is a real pilot who flies sailplanes on weekends for fun. He did not have to call his company and ask what he should do or look up how to glide a plane to the slowest possible speed before touchdown without stalling beofre getting there..
Ever since my first sim ride at Delta ('88) we practiced recoveries from approach to stalls. I did loads of stall/spin recoveries in the USAF and in G/A. The thinking back then was that the perception of an approach to stall, with all the attendant visual and aural inputs, should prompt an immediate recovery. A few years later we started practicing high altitude upsets and control to the brink of full stall to perfect the ability to avoid CFIT (controlled flight into terrain- a disoriented crew approaching a steep mountain slope requiring an unusually steep climb). It works and it continues.
It's different in a swept wing aircraft.. A full stall in light aircraft is way easier to recover from
They were eliminating spin training when I did my PPL.
Denny O'Connor I agree that level of training comes down each year, not only in Aviation but also in many other fields of science.
Your right ole buddy. The days of stick and rudder guys are gone. Any of my students after six hours could recover this bird from a full stall. Remember when spin training was required for Private Pilot Certificate?
Now try how does a B-737 handle a defective MCAS :D
Disappointing, I was expecting a computer alarm yelling "Beware Josef, you're stallin'"
In 1981 I had stall recovery training in the C150 and Piper Arrow in my first 7 or 8 hours I believe.
1970's.. From 2,000 feet agl I learned 45 degree full stalls at 12 hours. BE tough or you quit.
I wonder if this training was because of Air France 447...
Does the simulator correctly generate the failure messages that they got? One of the issues was that when the AOA got out of range, it stopped annunciating the stall warnings, including the stick shaker. When the pilot pushed forward and got it back into the valid range, it immediately started giving alarms so he pulled back again.
Of course, any pilot who knew basic aerodynamics would know it was in a stall because of the combination of low airspeed, full power, and decreasing altitude, but this pilot apparently wasn't trained very well.
I wonder how much altitude was lost on the first stall. I noticed that on the second stall the instructor didn't let it go into a full stall.
I was wondering the same thing.
The second stall was at 15,000 ft. Not much room for error. The whole idea of stall training, is to first identity when the aircraft is approaching a stall. It's a lot easier to recover from than being in a deep stall (which was shown in the beginning to demonstrate what a full stall looks and feels like).
I was watching for that and noticed that the altimeter on the Captain's PFD displayed a ~400 foot drop. What I wonder about is what's deemed "acceptable" for a professional airline pilot. I know that if my CFI were to see me loose 100 feet on a stall in a C152, I would have never solo'd. If I ever run into an ATP, I'll have to ask.
On the first stall he seems to have lost at least 2600 feet, possibly more (there's a cut in the video)
You also have to factor in air density from FL370 vs FL150. Wings will generate more lift at lower altitude and quicker versus at cruise, hence the reason stall speed is so high at cruise.
Brian is the man! Great instructor pilot!
This is all good stuff. It is important for pilots to truly know how their equipment will react. Practicing stall to stick shaker and recovery isn't experiencing the full stall characteristics of the actual full stall of the aircraft. I wonder if the sim replicates every scenario a pilot can get into trouble in every stall situation and know how the aircraft reacts and recovers. Something most experienced pilot will know to avoid but great to really know what the aircraft will do if you venture into those situation.
The master caution alert is a lot more annoying on Airbus, I could almost handle that sound haha.
Actually it is much louder on the Boing :)
Yep Boing sucks :)
HardCoreGaming Corp blablabla... never want to fly a boing they are old and full of outdated technology. :)
HardCoreGaming Corp was just autocorrection on the phone. So all times I flew with Airbus the planes had plenty of power, was new and flew very smoothly thru the bad weather (when there were some). All time I had to fly on a Boeing it was old, had to consume nearly the whole runway to get airborne and once in a rainstorm you could see that the plane was winding left an right.
I knew Boeing had announced some new planes and might build them atm but I guess nobody here buy them because they already have some airbus and stick to them.
Surprised that this isn't a standard part of commercial training seeing as for PPL you have to do stall and spin recovery training. It's unlikely that you'd ever need to use it, but still, you never know when some factors may adversely reduce Vs.
Back when flight simulators first cane out, they didn't have stick shakers, they had a guy under the simulator actually holding the stick and shaking it
I have 75 yrs experience this is way better that what i started with :)
Way Back years ago 1982 I used to often train my flight training crews using the 727 simulator FULL stall recoveries. I think they learned a lot from that training, (relax back pressure, add FULL power) to many dummies just got confused (some of the worst pilots my airline had) and crashed instead. The excuse's I heard them say were pretty funny and really lame.
Sounded like you needed to keep adding quarters. $
Yes otherwise pitch goes crazy
ah so that's why flying is so expensive. if I knew, I'd pay double the price -- in quarters
With the downturn in travel this is how airlines can bring in more revenue. I’d pay for a back seat ride on an airliner doing that. Throw in an aileron roll too.
I remember the other video of an actual Boeing 717 stall test. Intentional stall.
Man I wish I could see those instruments! Just guessing from 4:56 to 5:36 @ 9k descent rate, thats 15k to 10.5k in 30 sec.
Alaska Airlines will need this training for when every 737 in their fleet has a midair flight surface failure due to shoddy maintenance.
?
why
Funny thing is.. It still happens with pilots being completely unaware. How is that possible? That buffeting is warning enough already.
Let's see that recovery on final approach.
I'm interested to know how the simulator hydraulics simulate the sensation of "falling" due to a full stall.
It seems like that amount of motion would be beyond the motion range of the pumps.
Does my question make sense? I hope it does.
It makes perfect sense. That's why the only way to really do this properly is to do it for real.
jsm666 a 737 probably costs about 10k an hour. that's why pilots have simulators, you can't train in the real thing. not to mention stalling a swept wing aircraft is much more dangerous than a Wing with a low speed planform.
Ummm swept wings stall at the tip first. They are totally different then flying a Cessna. You will NEVER stall a 737 on purpose. EVER unless you are a Boeing test pilot. I'm a commercial certificate holder, and hopefully on Wednesday, a flight instructor (CFIA)
It's not dangerous in a sense that skydiving isn't dangerous (but there is a small risk)....Like through extremely poor piloting, uncoordinated stalls, forcing secondary stalls etc. It takes THOUSANDS of feet to recover from a stall in a 737... It's only done on test flights, (like for certification or otherwise) Nobody goes out and flies at 10,000 dollars an hour to practice doing stalls in a giant swept wing jet.
How much damage would it cause to a real 737 if you stall it and recover?
Wait so airline pilots aren't currently required to train in stalls???
FWIW 15,000 feet is a "low altitude" stall because shock waves and mach no. complications are not involved. At typical cruising altitudes these can cause more serious complications and loss of altitude and control. I.e. definitely going to spill some drinks!
In a simulator at the time of a full stall and you kick full rudder into a spin, is it possible to recover from the spin?
Is this ever practiced in a simulator?
It is not easy to create a spin in a big plane.
Steppin on the clutch, in any gear, will also save you from a stall.
Seems to me like we should've been doing this for at least the 20+ years. It makes no sense to me that pilots do most of their stall training/practice in aircraft that have relatively tame stall handling characteristics and yet that training ends when it comes time to fly at high altitude and in large aircraft where stall recovery/prevention really counts. And we still have another three and half years at risk of another stall/upset accident occurring before all airline pilots are required to receive this training? Why not start requiring this training next year?
TonyTheFlyer I believe this is already required, this was either a new pilot in training or just a "refresher" if you will, to help practice the procedure.
Do they teach how to recover if the jet goes into a stall spin?
1.) How does he make it stall? By switching off the engines?
2.) How does he solve the stall? By "hitting the gas", or by doing a nosedive so as to gain speed?
3.) How (if at all) would they simulate the plane flipping over, if the simulator itself obviously can't do this movement?
taxiuniversum bringing the engines to their lowest thrust setting and pitching the plane up, it will begin to rapidly lose speed, a lot like a car going up a hill. The engines do not need to be turned off.
2) Pitching the nose down and setting full power on the engines are needed to get out of a stall. At high altitudes like on the first stall, the air is thin, so the plane is prone to secondary stalls (the plane stalls again when trying to pull out of the dive). Gentle inputs need to be made after the recovery, but the recovery itself needs to be fast and aggressive to prevent a loss of control.
3) The simulator can only go so far, so the pilots will only feel so much. You can't go upside down whilst in that kind of simulator. Being in a simulator will never be exactly like the real thing, although it is close.
Nathan Chetram Thank you. I wonder, though if at thin air, the plane might not TOTALLY get out if control. I mean, if the plane just tumbles down, wouldn't it be near impossible to make it face down, properly aligned and all? Then again, I guess if you can still give full thrust of the engines, the plane would still (or again) be maneuverable.
taxiuniversum What you just described is called a deep stall. Basically, the aircraft is in such a configuration to allow for the wings to generate a "shadow" over the tail, preventing any air from flowing over the tail fins. The pitch control surfaces (elevators) are on the tail, and if no air flows over them they are rendered useless. That pretty much leaves the aircraft unrecoverable. Deep stalls pretty much happen on T-tail aircraft only, because of how the tail is designed. A T-tail aircraft (DC-9, MD-80 and CRJ-700) has the elevator and horizontal tail fin (horizontal stabilizer) mounted higher up on the tail, so it it easier to get it in that shadow I talked about. These planes have more advanced stall protection systems, like a stick pusher that will push the control column forward itself if approaching a deep stall, assuming the pilot has not done so yet.
1) by increasing the wing's angle of attack beyond the critical angle2) by decreasing the wing's angle of attack below the critical angle. Speed has nothing to do with it. You can stall at any speed. PUSH THE STICK FORWARD.
GCE. Gross Conceptual Error.
It is about time. When I was learning over 50 years ago, recovery from a number of unusual attitudes and dead stick landings were part of the training. Today, I have my doubts about a lot of the plane drivers of today.
Why? There's less airplane crashes these days than there were many years ago. And there's more flights these days.
Air France 447 and AirAsia 8501 are the reasons why. Those two planes crashed into the ocean because the pilots couldn't correct a stall after the autopilot cutout.
ehstronghold they caused the stall and didn’t even try to recover from the stall that they didn’t believe was happening in AF447 at least.
All he had to do was put the nose down 3 degrees and save 228 people.
I was expecting footage from an actual flight...
Aaron Poisel not a good idea
Aaron Poisel no
Alessio Mancuso Channel Woooosh
Aaron: At 15,000 feet you'd be out of the O'Hare ATC's area of control. Try again.
A pilot wouldn't put a plane into a stall in a real flight. Unless it's a test flight or an Airbus.
I hate Airbus.
Why does Alaska Airlines put a picture of Wolfman Jack on the tail of their airplanes?
They make that look so easy. Me, Id be having to do a full underwear check after that. The advantage is the altitude for both stalls, still wouldn't change the scare the brown stuff out in the first place. Practice is a very good thing
To be honest, I am quite surprised they are only doing this now.
Wow those secondaries are rough better have some altitude
Now imagine when you really have 100+ souls on board. That's when you need strong nerves and confidence.
And not overcompensate. It's so easy until you are in the situation. Kinda like when you are a licensed carry and then one day you get robbed...
@@a.bax.5992 Indeed, I would suggest they find some way to exert this emotional pressure on pilots in the sims. I'm not sure how it could be implemented, but it would be worth looking into.
I disagree. I'd say all pilots think of is saving their own lives in a situation like this which also means saving their passengers' lives.
really???
It is so easy to pull up into secondary stalls because these airplanes when fully stalled need a lot of altitude to gain speed and we become impatient and want the attitude to look normal.
wow, that looked far more violent than I would have expected.
I'm glad they are teaching this.
Air France flight 447 & Air Florida flight 90 ... I Think those two are the better-known (semi) "stall" problems.
2:45 stall starts
No one:
Boeing 737 elevator trim: minecraft skeleton sounds
How much altitude did you lose between stalling and recovering from it?
That is one of the key training elements: A few years ago minimizing lost altitude was taught. If you take it to the extreme that can be a problem even low level. But at high altitudes once you have stalled it is impossible to recover without losing quite some altitude. You can see him pulling up very slowly but he does not have enough speed margin yet and the stick shaker activates again.
So altitude loss is not the primary concern but a smooth pullout without overspeeding excessively.
I have over 90 years experience in a plane as a pilot. It’s about 27,000ft lost exactly
This video was needed since it’s release Boeing needs to do a global training for pilots of airlines or companies who fly this aircraft
i dont think it will be helpful if the plane makes the flying dangerous and difficult for u
Hope the passengers enjoyed it
Does the plane stall because I popped the clutch too fast?
Very informative video...... Glad to see progress continuing in the aviation community....
A 737 does not full stall at 38,000 feet. Its miss handled into a stall in almost every instance. Stalls are caused because pilots louse there situational awareness and allowed the plane into a configuration it was never meant to fly. No plane stalls, there mishandled.
Theres a reason a computer can not stall a plane, it will not exit its flight envelope, something pilots do regularly
Right, but for a computer to fly the plane EVERYTHING needs to be working. One AOA sensor malfunction auto-pilot disconnects, speed disagree, auto-pilot disconnects, asymmetrical thrust, disconnects. Ect. And due to the very nature of these critical sensors, failure is common, but not lethal, unless your a computer.
@@Bipbapbop_ And all easily handled. None of the things you've listed there are a problem, PROVIDING the pilots are trained to act
Is it necessary that commercial pilot also have a high G training? Somehow stalling in high speed make a high G situation and makes the pilot lose concentration or passed out and unable to recover from stalling
Very cool to see! Thanks for posting this.
I remember ACI episodes where pilots got both stick shaker as well as overspeed warning at the same time. Stoyy I recall was pitot tube malfunctioned and gave wrong IAS. Has there been case of wrong stick shaker activation ? If there has been none, I wonder if pilots are trained to trust sticker shaker over speed warnings.
according to the ATSB, about 1/3rd of stick shaker/stall warning activations are false (at least in Australia)
Hate that speed trim system sound adjusting the trim
The aircraft stall test is real?😮
What a beautiful cockpit, I would live in that simulator if i could
It looked like they were in a dive forever regaining airspeed. Did any catch how much altitude was lost from initial stall to recovery?
Christopher Unger thought the same thing !
Since they are up so high (and therefore the air is so much thinner), stall recovery (from a full stall) can actually require several thousand feet.
Instructor said to delay recovery procedures until sink rate reached 9,000 ft/min. So start at 33,000 feet, decend/fall at an increasing rate until 9,000 ft/min is reached, then, and only then, initiate recovery. Seemed like half the time was waiting for to reach target sink rate before starting to recover. IRL, I imagine they are supposed to start recovery as soon as they detect the problem, and might not fall so far.
I don't hear triming down during recovery procedure ?
This all changed with the new 737 MAX 8 and its new MCAS system!
Pilots do everything right and the plane decides they are stalling all of a sudden so override the pilots input and crash into the ground instead. Great work Boeing
how does the plane sense stall? using only speedometers caused many accidents because of speedometer failures. maybe pressure on bow surface can be used as a secondary and coarse speed measurement.
Now seriously speaking, under what circumstances would a commercial airliner would bleed so much speed that the plane would stall? (Please forgive my ignorance, I'm not a professional pilot)
I’ve been a passenger for 30 years
nice work thank for the demonstration .
Gentle pitch and give it power
me when playing X Plane and the plane start to stalling: FULL POWER and PULL THE GODDAMN YOKE