3D printing with ABS: Hotter nozzle or hotter ambient?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ม.ค. 2017
- You should probably be using a heated or enclosed chamber for ABS.
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I live in Egypt, room temperature can get very hot 48C hot, i don't think i need an enclosure 😂😂😂
Yassin Elessawy these temperatures can destroy PLA… it will decompose and crumble to dust
I live in Brazil, 35ºc ambient, on the spare room with A/C off, it printed much better than when I tried it on my room with A/C at 26º, but still not perfect, still got a few delaminations. I'm building an enclosure, witch will easily hit 48-50º, but now I'm worried about the electronics.
@@Spartacusse I'm probably late but, just leave the power supply outside the enclosure because it can't take the heat but the other electronics should be able to
As a Texan I identify with this comment
@@cheaterbane ayee me too 🤘
Regarding the fumes from ABS... ABS is hydroscopic and only emits fumes when it has absorbed water. If you keep ABS in a very low humidity environment when not in use, e.g. A sealed bucket with silica gel in it, you will get virtually no fumes when printing.
Hi Tom. i mentioned this in your recent live stream: It'd be really good to see some more investigation into heated chambers. Methods for heating, control of temperature, effects on various materials etc etc. I really want to look at printing large strong parts from materials that can be difficult to print because of warping: ABS, ASA, Polycarbonate and POM (delrin).
Love the videos, thanks and keep up the good work! You make this hobby a pleasure!
check out stratasys, they have a heated chamber patent. its interesting how they seal the top of the machine
Thomas... regarding ABS and air quality. ... I've run tests with ABS, Nylon and PLA to characterize particle and gas generation for each type of filament. I found that if I kept the filament stored at 25% or less RH then none of the filaments generate detectable gas or particle counts. Stored at 50% RH, ABS generates large numbers of particles. I didn't check for gas generation at that RH.
My theory is that the water absorbed by the filament turns to steam when it is heated in the hot end. This causes numerous small steam explosions which spray tiny bits of the molten plastic thus generating airborne particles. Since ABS is more hydroscopic than PLA it will create more particles if it is not stored in a desiccated container.
I tested using a printer and laser particle counter inside an enclosed volume. None of the filaments that had been stored at or below 25% RH raised the enclosure particle counts at all while printing. In fact, after closing the door to the enclosure, particle counts went down by up to 90% from room ambient levels due to settling and because the room air, which always has particles, was not able to mix with the enclosed volume.
I thought you might find this interesting since the studies claiming ABS is dangerous did not account for humidity levels. If they would have done so their results would have been completely different.
Tony Shulthise Very interesting!
Considering how you can never be sure how a filament was stored prior to shipping, would storing filament in very low humidity (e.g., next to a bit of silica gel) extract the water particles that might have gotten trapped? In other words, can filaments be "fixed" or do you have to rely on them never having been stored in a humid environment after extrusion at the factory?
aiklarung You can remove water from filament by storing spools in a desiccated box. If you are in a hurry you can heat the spool to around 125 F or so (maybe hotter but I don't know if it will affect the shape) for a few hours to get some of the moisture out.
I just keep my spools in a sealed plastic container with about 2 lbs of desiccant and a humidity monitor. When the humidity monitor reads over 25% it's time to heat my desiccant for a few hours at 180F to dry it back out. Or you can use color changing desiccant which changes colors based on moisture levels. You can find everything on Amazon.
Tony Shulthise thanks for the info!
Did you conclude that the out gassing is being better propagated by the higher water vapor output?
123jerro We measured very high particle counts when printing with ABS stored at 50% relative humidity. For ABS stored at 20% RH the particle count didn't raise at all and VOC's we under safe limits.
i've been printing ABS with a plastic bag over my printer at 235C and a 95C heated bed temperature without a cooler at 100mm/s. i measured the air temperature at 55C. that gives me really resistant prints and very good layer adhesion. the mechanical properties result mostly isotropic, it doesn't break on the layer interfaces. in terms of quality i didn't have any problem, prints end loolking very nice. And i also saw a big difference in the mechanical properties from one brand to other. i assume it has to do with the 'copolymer' nature of abs. each manufacturer has it's own recipe.
I've mostly used PLA except for stuff that I knew needed to withstand higher temperatures or survive outdoors, there I''ve used ABS. I don't have a chamber, but I do have a heated bed. Now here's and idea I've used....Once my ABS print is finished I throw a towel over it and then shut down the heated bed. This allows the part to cool down more slowly, and it seems to help avoid cracking and layer separation. I got the idea from reading about how glass is cast, and without this trick I can actually HEAR the ABS cracking as it cools!
Kenneth Scharf that's surely a thing. but that's not a definitive solution at all. i'm using abs as daily driver, in a closed room, bit with no enclosure. heated bed at 95°C.
if the object i'm printing is somewhat large, it will warp during the print, if the object i'm printing is also high layers will crack too. so no way to do what you say since when the printer stops everything is already ruined
I'm not saying that an enclosure isn't necessary, just pointing out my experience. As I said, I don't print much ABS, and I don't use it for large parts. I do get layer separation, but use acetone to make repairs. Still, I've had few additional failures post printing by slowing down the cooling process. I do plan on adding an enclosure to my printer eventually.
I love petg, pla works well for most things, abs just tries my patience.
Exactly, PETG is awesome! I print huge parts all the time and I need something that won't melt in my car... lol.
Plus food safe is cool.
Harbinger Arts petg is the new pla
i'm looking to see if i can find a filament that has higher heat resistance so i can use it on functional parts outdoors in direct and high australian sun conditions and in vehicles etc And i don't have a heated bed on my ATOM 2.0 - is this PETG capable of being printed on glass beds unheated?
May I suggest Polycarbonate. But for either one, its worth getting a heated bed.
Polycarbonate wont be printable on most 3d printers, needs an all metal hotend
PETG is the way to go. I only use ABS now, for small parts that require good looks or strength. PETG is strong enough and heat-resistant, but I dislike the shininess of it.
Thomas... regarding ABS and air quality. ... I've run tests with ABS, Nylon and PLA to characterize particle and gas generation for each type of filament. What I found was that if you keep your filament stored at 25% or less RH then none of the filaments generate detectable gas or particle counts. Stored at 50% RH, ABS generates large numbers of particles. I didn't check for gas generation at that RH.
My theory is that the water absorbed by the filament turns to steam when it is heated in the hot end. This causes numerous small steam explosions which spray tiny bits of the molten plastic thus generating airborne particles. Since ABS is more hydroscopic than PLA it will create more particles if it is not stored in a desiccated container.
I tested using a printer and laser particle counter inside an enclosed volume. None of the filaments that had been stored at or below 25% RH raised the enclosure particle counts at all. In fact, after closing the door to the enclosure, particle counts went down by up to 90% from room ambient levels due to settling and the fact that the room air, which always has particles, was not able to mix with the enclosed volume.
I thought you might find this interesting since the studies claiming ABS is dangerous did not account for humidity levels. If they would have done so their results would have been completely different.
I total agree. when printing abs I've also found that an enclosure is a must. with my experience
I get stronger, better looking parts, a lot less warping, with the bonus of little to no layer separation.
Hi Thomas, the thing with the Trashbag, you should add a "Use on own Risk". :)
I know, but in some countries you'll forced to take responsibly for everything. The hint i give is "Coffee, burn, millions of $$$" ;)
@Mykel Hardin no, there was a comment i replied to, but it seems to be deleted now.
Given that I have random sheets of acrylic and the ambient temperature around my printer is normally 13C, maybe I should try to make an enclosure for my printer.
I prefer PETG, since it is more forgiving and doesn't smell bad.
Great Video!!! I've noticed alot of 3d printing videos in general are more geared for the beginner so its nice that alot of your videos are good for beginners and experienced printers.
Great info as always Tom, thank you.
ABS has got to be one of my favourite materials. I print in a heated build chamber between 35 & 40c, as heigh as I can get away with. Part cooling does help as long as you don't over do it.
You deserve at least 1 million subs. Your videos are definitely the best I watch! Keep it up!!!
Excellent and Informative as always. Keep up the great work! I've learned so much from your channel.
For those who thinks about building a heated chamber make sure to use aluminium based heat elements as they do not get as hot a steel based ones which reduces the risk of a fire if you make the chamber of a flammable material(like wood).
Also make sure to build some kind of ventilation that will circulate the hot air in the top of the case to the bottom. I plan to route some PVC piping outside the chamber. Oh and make a window, so you can check on your prints without opening up the chamber, which would cause a lot of air to blow over the part. It can be good idea to place your electronics outside the chamber, as it might not like such high temperatures although my RAMPS has held up for hundreds of hours in 60C without a problem.
Anyway heated chambers does miracles for ABS and similar materials. Anyone who says otherwise does not print large enough prints or do not care much about the strength of the part. It also reduces the noise, the smell(unhealthy or not - ABS does smell) as well as the power consumption(less power needed to keep the bed hot).
Very informative,thanks for sharing your experience :)
I recently tried enclosure over Prusa i3 and ABS parts were so much nicer, stronger and had les layer separation. printed 20 cm long part and the bed adhesion was perfect. no warping at all.
Thanks Tom!
Great review, as usual.
This video is so philosophical, and I've probably watched it more than any of your other videos. I'm not sure if I will ever understand the strength benefit from the 20% fan. What a brain teaser. It is difficult to put words to the nuances and conclusions we make when developing work-arounds in 3d printing, but you do an excellent job. Thanks.
Hi Thomas thank you for your videos and all you have done for the 3d printing community ☺ . I have only just watched this video on ABS and I thought I would add something here. I only print in ABS or higher temperature stuff and I built a custom fully enclused printer for just such materials. As you have stated in this video that as the chamber temperature rises there can be a negative impact on the print quality ! - I overcome this issue by removing all fans from the chamber and I use very fine airblow nozzles to achieve part cooling during printing. This has allowed me to obtain much better ptints whilts providing warp free and super strong end results 😀 all with cheap no brand ABS. I use a small air pump and flow reguators to fine tune the cooling at present but I have in mind a better self regulating system. thanks again for great content and excellently presented material.
At my job, I primarily run ABS as we have Afinia (UP!) printers. As you may know, the proprietary ABS made for these printers has notably higher extrusion temperature of 270 degrees Celsius. They also have direct extruders equipped with motor fans that are intended to double as part cooling fans; there is a toggle that allows for the user to re-direct the air away from the part, so that's typically what I've opted to do. The H800 features an enclosure. It can print larger parts remarkably well IF the bed temperature is changed to 100 degrees Celsius (which I believe is the highest it will go; I could be remembering that inaccurately, however and that may just be how hot I was willing to set it), the bed is amazingly (read: manually) leveled, the print surface is BuildTak, and a glue stick has been applied. There aren't really too many hoops to jump through, but it was a bit of a saga to hone things to a comfortable place. The H480 is much smaller and has a completely open build chamber. Using the factory settings for ABS (270 degrees Celsius on the hot-end, 90 degrees Celsius on the bed, whatever print speed the "fine" setting implies), printing onto perfboard, and an application of glue from the trusty glue stick, I am able to get surprisingly nice results. These nice results are highly dependent on the model being printed. It's like usual with ABS - small things work well when the x-axis and y-axis size is relatively similar and the print isn't too tall. Otherwise, there's definitely some layer adhesion trouble and guaranteed warping, even with a raft (the rafts always stick fine; the parts tend to warp off of the rafts). I probably should have mentioned that with these printers, rafts are an absolute must. Even with glue on BuildTak, the filament refuses to even begin to adhere to the surface. I also failed to mention infill. It's an unfortunate requisite because the UP software doesn't seem to have a surface density adjuster for the side walls of the print; only the top and bottom can be adjusted. I typically set my infill at 65% so that the part can't be crushed in my hand but I am still using slightly less material.
Regardless, the point of all of this extraneous information is to let you know that in my experience with my machines (which are ABS-centric, to say the least), ABS can be printed and printed well on a printer without an enclosure. It's unquestionably more effective to print with an enclosure if aesthetically pleasing and successful prints are the desired outcome. I intend to build an enclosure for the H480 for the express purpose of printing ABS. All of that being said, I've liked working with PLA much more. It just sort of works, which is not really the case with ABS. I have been doing a lot of research as of late to acquire a better working understanding of 3D printing beyond the machines that I currently have access to, and that's allowed me to get some seriously nice results using ABS on my printers. I haven't printed PLA recently enough to apply my newfound knowledge to the process, but entirely in spite of that, my old prints with PLA are still just as nice as my new ABS ones. I can't even imagine how good they will be! Even with machines intended for ABS printing and using their exceptional filament, I see no purpose in using ABS over other filaments that offer better looking and/or more structurally sound prints.
Great suggestions Tom, I have been waiting for a review like this since 2-3 years ago from absoulutely anyone. My biggest concern will always be when printing bigger parts, the constant repetition of open source clones in the market proves that the idea is their except not directly dealt with, a enclosure would push forward many major ideas like the transition disk drives did with hellium (faster speeds, ...), it will potentially start a market that embraces actual security mechanisms (for possible fires,fumes,electrical issues....) at consumer prices; or maybe it's just the ABS filament I have been printing with all day is starting to get to me.
Could you do a video about fan ducts and refrigeration in general?
Thanks for sharing Tom I've been looking at stronger materials and I was thinking ABS but I might test some others before making my decision now.
Another awesome upload. 👍
I use an enclosure heated to 30oC due to the printer being in the garage with is down about 5oC at this time of year. This gives consistent prints
Aluminized mylar emergency blankets make great shrouds as an impromptu build chamber and are cheap/free. Even just wrapping the back and top leaving the front open for visibility makes a big difference.
I live in Montana at a high elevation with little to no humidity. I print with ABS exclusively, i can't get PLA to print well at all, way to much curling.
I've finally switched to PETG for most things. The mechanical properties are excellent, it is easy to print, its non-toxic and has nice colors. The only things we print with ABS are printer parts near the print heads, such as fan brackets and ducts.
I also have the Raise 3d N2+ printer which is enclosed with a separate removable top. Having the enclosed chamber improves all my prints, even PLA, by buffering changes in ambient temperature and air currents during long prints. Check your prints for marks on long prints with the air conditioner or heater kicking on and off. They are there and they are preventable.
I've only worked with ABS, except for a few experiments including HIPS and PETG. For years I struggled with warps and cracks, designing around it and so on. One day I needed a part that absolutely required a large vertical wall that was going to split and there was no trick to get around it. I finally built a box to go over the printer with a 100W incandescent lamp as a heater. (The nozzle cools to 40-45°C, in the shade, after a print is done.) The box fixed it. As noted, layer adhesion also improved drastically.
I've never been very interested in PLA, since so many of my prints will be exposed to a lot of heat.
I've been thinking I should add a cooling fan, and this is adding some urgency to that idea. I should build a new enclosure too, since those pizza boxes are looking a little rough.
Dale, what are the main reasons you have been using ABS? Can you use PETG?
I started out using it because it's a tougher material. I never knew that without an enclosure, the prints probably weren't tougher than a PLA print. But I quickly found myself printing things that need heat tolerance. The part I mentioned before stays on the dash of my car, for example. Others are always exposed to the sun outside a vehicle. Using PETG in all those applications would be just another disappointing half measure. Not nearly as satisfactory as taping together a box so I can print ABS well.
Thank you!
I love IC3Ds black ABS. 240-245c and 110c bed on diluted wood glue or glue stick. works decent without an enclosure, but is fantastic with one.
I run ABS on my Monoprice maker select in my room with zero air flow and it works like a charm.
Tom - You didn't test ABS in an enclosure with active heating? I would think the printing could be done at a lower nozzle temperature and with a part cooling fan, eliminating the temperature artifacting, while maintaining layer adhesion strength due to the slower overall cooling with a high ambient temperature in an actively heated enclosed space. I've enclosed my Kossel Mini chinese clone in a wood and plexiglass homemade enclosure. I plan to fit a heat gun to it (blowing away from the print volume as much as possible) and try printing ABS. I don't have a part cooling fan attached or a thermometer in there yet, so it will have to wait until I get to do that.
One easy way to make a cheap heated chamber : I used a big cardboard box doubled with a thermal blanket film inside. It will heat up much faster only with the energy of the heated bed. It can reach 50C or more easily. for ABS I use a heated chamber + part fan at 50% and nozzle temp at 245C. I rarely print with ABS, only when I need thermal resistance. I prefer PETG for mechanichal resistance (+heated chamber against large part bending)
You sounded like a Doctor about to break some bad news there at the beginning lol.
I primarily print ABS as I typically do very large prints that will be acetone fused to other prints to create even larger final objects. Is fusing parts still a point where ABS has superiority or are there alternatives out there that give at least equal performance?
Would also love to know!
I too would love to know. Are there any adhesives for PETG that perform similar to acetone/ABS?
Model cement and acrylic cement tends to work as well on PLA as acetone does on ABS for bonding.
Never experimented with PETG, from my understanding though is that it is almost as chemical resistant as nylon. :/
However, friction welding using filament and a dremel is a nice alternative.
You can also use a wood burner tool and weld with that. It's a good way to use up the last little bits of filament on your roll.
Good material to catch as always - TY for the notes. I was out across the river in Portland, OR (USA) this morning pricing things out for a enclosure build. :)
I am not exactly disagreeing with the results of your test. But, I do have different experience with ABS.
I've been printing in ABS for about 5 years now, without an enclosed chamber. I live in Houston, Texas (mostly hot, humid), with air conditioning.
I've never really had strength problems, and my prints have come out looking nice enough. I have had intermittent problems that have resulted in curling or failures, but I hadn't really considered it to be unusable.
I have recently been trying other filaments, partly due to what I saw from Filaween. I like what I'm seeing with PETG.
***** I've had layer cracking once in a while. Normally, when the airflow in the room is higher.
As I said, I'm not really disagreeing as much as giving different anecdotal evidence. I'm looking forward to playing with other materials to see if they work even better.
Thanks much for your Filaween series and all the videos you do.
G. Wade Johnson I agree I agree with you here, im in South Africa print with no enclosure and with a part cooling fan. I get great print quality, I print at 225degc hotend and 100degc bed with 0,1mm layer height.
on the taller prints I get some splitting and warping but mostly due to tempreture changes due to airflow.
also my house averages 22degc in summer and 15degc in winter.
Found with my Afina, no enclosure is fine just stop blowing air on the part so it doesn't cool so fast. It prevents cooling too fast and shrinking, causing layer separation. My cooling fans sucks air away from head to cool head, but doesn't blow on the part as it prints. Also use a good filament, I am testing a cheap one from Inland right now and it is terrible. My best prints come from Octave filament right now at around 236º. The Afinia branded stuff is also good, but costs way more. I have gotten other cheap stuff off Amazon and had terrible results. It also wouldn't bind with the other filaments when I swapped them mid print.
ackackBarf if you interested in trying out other cheaper fillaments try fillamentfactory.co.za, its a South African manufacurer and its around 17 euros a kg
G. Wade, tell us more about abs, i have such a hard time. R U a wizard?
ABS was my goto for a couple years. Enclosed is what you want. My chamber temps hit 60-70C all the time. No fan, easy on the speed and a slow cool down makes good stuff for me.
Hey Thomas great video as usual... I print exclusively with ABS. Having the right printer for it helps most. I have 2 Up Box's and an Up mini 2 and they print abs absolutely flawless. In fact they print abs better than my Wanhao duplicator i3 2.1 prints PLA. I used to print with just regular abs and the Ups printed that great. However I have since switch to eSun's ABS+ as my go to filament and the prints come out as mentioned absolutely flawless and super strong... Since the Ups have an all metal hotend I do print the abs+ at 260c... Another great abs filament that prints perfectly (virtually zero warping or artifacting) is FormFutura's EasyFil ABS...
Hi Thomas I only print with ABS in a enclosed area off cause and I have great success with it so no complaints here. Thank you so much for a great video again as always. I have learned so much from you so please keep up the great work. My printer is a scratch build P3Steel v4 stainless steel frame. Friendly greatings, I am also from Johannesburg
- South Africa.
I have two printers one has a enclosed chamber and the other does not and I print with abs a lot I have tried printing abs on my non enclosed printer with out any luck i was getting layer gaps and warping so having a chamber defiantly is needed in my opinion when printing in my enclosed printer i run my abs @240c with heated glass bed @95c and try to keep my infill at 10% to prevent layer gaps
I've been using an enclosure for years. started just using cardboard... the newest design I'm building, is basically a custom enclosed h-bot, mostly to help reduce the risk of winter drafts causing a failed print.
My experience with ABS and PETG has been the exact oposite of yours. I have never had major issues with ABS (only when using incorrect print settings or very large thin volumes) and i tried many different brands, even for fairly large prints like 20x300x20mm. PETG on the other hand gave me a hard time at least 50% of the time, allthough i haven't tried more than two different brands... Worth noting that i always print ABS in an enclosed chamber (35c in winter and +50c in summer). ABS has always been my main filament because it's better for post processing (sanding and acetone welding) and it also works very well in combination with TPU and SemiFlex. I just recently also started printing with PLA and i've been printing like crazy since 2013. I feel like i should give PETG another chance but for now ABS is still my favorite.
I rarely print with ABS... I pretty much leave it for when, like you said, I need the temp stability or I need to smooth it. I've found splitting but I have definitely found the enclosure helps a lot, but on really tall pieces I find it to still be a problem.
Tom, could you do a review of the BL Touch? I keep seeing it but i've never seen that type of magnetic/touch probe before. Do you think it would be useful?
Here at the equator, I just need to bring the printer outside under the sun and ABS will print without a heated enclosure.
Hi, Thomas - I started with PLA, but heard good things about PETg and tried it. I think it's a fantastic choice, so much of a general purpose 'do everything' filament that I've never tried ABS. All I use is PETg now. Currently printing out pieces for the Tech2C Hypercube printer (check his youtube channel) and all parts are crisp, flat, uniform and light.
I´m not using ABS anymore. I started 3D printing with ABS but I just don´t need that high temp stability. For strength I use PrimaSelect PLA or PETG. In case I want and need ABS like Material I use Zortrax Ultrat. Doesn't´t smell that much, easy to print. For big parts I´ve made a simple enclosure from foam. My first Printer, the Tiertime UP Mini printed ABS like a boss... Thanks for all these Videos Tom!
I have my printer in a nice little cupboard... the air inside gets up to about 40C (during long prints) and ABS prints quite well :)
Ich habe leider selbst beim drucken von PLA mit meinem Prusa i3 MK2 Original ein Problem mit der Adhesion. Ich habe das Druckbett versucht weitesgehend richtig einzustellen. Wenn ich mit Pritstift drucke sehen alle Linien gleich hoch aus. Nachgemessen sind sie es auch nahezu. Allerdings ohne Stift lösen sich an den Kanten in der ersten Schicht häufig die Drucke vom Bett. Meinst du ein Gehäuse könnte auch hier helfen oder liegt das Problem ganz wo anders?
I used Kimya Carbon Fiber (20%) ABS to print my Prusa MK3S+ extruder parts, using the Kimya presets in PrusaSlicer. I printed in an enclosure at 40-45C. Bed temp 110C, hot end 265C. They came out perfect the first time. No elefant foot, no layer separation, no warping. Adhesion to the flex steel smooth PEI plate was good. All parts fit together perfectly. I used a brim, but that was a lot of work with the sharp knife to remove, so subsequent parts I print with no brim. Still good adhesion. There was a tiny bit of surface roughness from tiny bubbles, so I suggest to keep your ABS in a desiccator even while printing.
I print with ABS 90% of the time now, I started with PLA, moved to PETG then to ABS once I had built a DIY enclosure. I feel I get the best prints for mechanical parts using ABS and an enclosure.......but I would still recommend PETG to someone new to 3D printing as ABS takes some work to get it printing at its best.
Without an enclosure and a PEI heated bed ABS is a nightmare, with an enclosure and PIE heated bed its a dream.
At your recommendation I'm bumping up the extruder temp (just 5C for now) and trying a light fan on ABS prints. Thus far it looks pretty good. Hopefully it makes overhangs slightly better on my ABS prints as well as improving strength.
thanks for this video I bought a bunch of ABS because i got a great deal on the spools but have not had good results and dont really need additional strength.
I print exclusively in ABS since that's what my old Makerbot 2X recommended. Never had any issues with it, but it is enclosed. Print at 220C with a bed at 110C.
My first 3D printer was DaVinci 1.0A which has an enclosure and I put Repetier on it. For over 2 years now I have been printing only ABS and never had a problem, I didn't even know what warping was until I read about it. Never had a nozzle jam, not once. I very often print prototypes with very thin walls (0.2-0.6mm), they are strong enough and it is fast to print. I set bed temperature to 90C and nozzle 235C, used all kinds of cheap ABS from Ebay and didn't have a single problem. I guess the only downside I can think of is smell, not sure it that could be a health issue, so I recently bought another printer to experiment with PLA. But so far PLA has been more challenging (struggling now with stringing, I have bowden extruder so retraction is not as effective).
I have an EcubMaker fantasy pro have printed abs almost exclusively for over a year. I use hatchbox abs @ 235 c nozzle, bed 110 c it is enclosed but no heated chamber . 0 issues with warping or cracks etc no layer adhesion issues. Quality is phenomenal even on larger 180mm diameter 200 mm prints. It did take time to dial it in to get a good surface finish. Mainly infill and increasing shells to at least 3 and top and bottom solids to 3. I print from. 1 to. 2 layer height @ a pretty quick 80 mm/s though prints 1st 3 layers at 40 mm/s same for top 3. No ringing or other issues is it more temperamental than petg sure. Though it has more flex mechanically(making take repeated stress better) , captures detail well and has a lot of post processing options that other materials don't. Its heat tolerance it a warm climate of Texas makes it good all round but does have a learning curve steeper than other materials.
I've had similar results. With a heated bed I use an ooze shield to enclose the part and trap the heat gradient a bit. It improved my results with polycarbonate (specifically Polymaker PC-Plus) significantly. This technique does work best on parts with a cross section
Fully agree :)
I keep my aging Flashforge pro, just for the times I need to print with ABS. I have been advising my customers to consider using PETG or PC if they need strength for a prototype. I have also noticed that there does not seem to be as much ABS filament out there. I think it is slowly losing demand.
can't wait for your comparison of some special copolyesters (specifically Colorfabb XT, HT and NGEN) and how those compare to ABS.
I actually just made a box for my Prusa I3 mk2. I was having corner curling problems with pla (only filament I've used so far) and it's done wonders. The box actually heats up to 41 at the base (that's where I sat the thermometer) on it's own but it also caused a jam with a little tweaking I found that the 31-33 degree range is all you need for pla. It's winter here and I had been printing in the 20-23 degree range if anyone was curious
I get the most problems with printing/clogging/curling when using ABS. My go to is PLA, but this video made me want to try new things, like PET-G!
I have 4 machines which I have build myself, all of them have their heated enclosure which permit 45 to 50 degree centigrade and I use ABS+ because it's much easier to get nice, smooth and easily sandable parts compared to PLA or PetG that are much more labor-intensive in the post-print stage. A couple of sheets of MDF, some insulation plate and 2 incandescent light bulbs is all you need to make ABS+ printing easy as 123. :)
Hi Tom I print a lot with ABS. I have one enclosed and heated corexy and one open kossel XL. Smaller parts work on the kossel Xl as it has a 330mm bed, so the ambient near the part is higher than it would be on a smaller bed. I avoid printing near the edge for that and other obvious reasons. I use mainly budget abs such as excelvan at 240 deg. I have a fully enclosed corexy where I routine print big parts often with large volcano nozzles, my chamber is just around the build volume, and can go to 50-55deg C just off its bed heater. Parts come out strong and precise. I print my first layer at 250 to get good adhesion to a printbite surface then lower it to the point where I can't see small bubbles/breakdown products in the material.
ABS is currently my go-to filament and I'm really happy with both the strength and print quality - but then I'm using a CEL Robox and their own brand ABS. I'm also looking at trying polycarbonate and nylon in the near future and one of those may usurp ABS as my favourite.
I am using ABS since I started 3d printing things. But I do have fully enclosed printer so I never had any issues with ABS. There is one thing that you didn't mention, Tom, and that is how ABS is easy to work with after print is complete-PLA nad PETG are hard to file, drill and sand if you are using hand tools. :)
yeah new video!
Hi Thomas. There is something about your video: you talked about useing a part fan for ABS (haveing a heated chamber of course). You should make a video going deeper into this, it would be really interesting because the "normal" acepted "standar" is that you never use a part fan with abs. I would really like to see tests about this
I have used a part cooling fan at around 20-30% speed without an enclosure with good results. Perhaps slightly lower layer bonding strength, but no delamination on small/medium sized parts. Main benefit is great dimensions (less shrinkage) and perfect overhangs with no curling. Just make very sure your bed adhesion is on point using buildtak/PEI or something, otherwise it will come off the bed once you start the fan...
Hey you should review a flashforge creator pro
Another reason to build an enclosure: You won't roast to death from your printer overwhelming your crappy air conditioner in the middle of Summer, since more of the heat hangs out in the box. If the air around the printer is warmer, the hotend and bed heater don't have to work as hard, so they generate less heat over the course of a print. That also means a little power savings, though that might go right out the window with active heating.
I had 6 printers running around the clock making parts I would sell on Ebay. I printed in ABS exclusively. I solved the curling problem. I would print with an open reprap, a heated bed set to 90F degrees on a glass bed covered in a single large sheet of kapton tape. I then covered that with a layer of home made ABS juice (acetone and scrap abs in the same color as the print). On large parts I would print with a "skirt" of 2 layers. Parts never came up. it WAS difficult to get them off the glass, and I would use a razor scraper to do it, but that was the price to pay for perfect parts.
Would enclosed chamber affect boards and stepper drivers?
I agree totally. I think it is the temp spread (ambient vs printing temp) that is where the problems are. ABS requires a tighter them spread than other filament options. Thst bring said, I have even had similar issues with PLA corners warping when prin ting with too much of a temp spread (60c bed, 210c hotend, 0c ambient)...my garage can get cold in the winter.
Hi Thomas, I live close enough to the equator (Jamaica) and we have drafts of cool air that will affect your prints . I've just gotten the materials to build my enclosure. I'll give you an update when I get my printer dialed in.
If I need to bond a part to my existing abs gold Prospecting Equipment, made from thermoformed ABS.
I'm sure ABS parts would bond well, what about the other filaments??
Thanks!!
Great video.... any ideas on where I can purchase a full pound of the PETG you discuss at the best price? I am in the USA
@Thomas Sanladerer, just courious, last day I measured my car temperature on the sun, it was showing 70+'C, and it is not summer yet, so, what material (except ASA) should I use for parts that go on bumper (like a lip) etc?
how can i test the layer adhesion? i have been testing abs without any enclosure and printing about 225°c and i dont see the problem except that the lower layers seem to get squished even at that temperature
How hot do the 3d printer parts actually get when printing with an enclosure? If I have a printer made with PETG parts, will they survive being in an enclosure with a heated bed at 100º?
I've been fighting layer adhesion issues with ABS since day one with my printer. Time to build an enclosure.
I have a CR-10S printer and also battled a bit with ABS. I built a simple enclosure out of thick cardboard with old glass plates as windows on opposite sides. This made quite a difference TBH. There were some other tweaks as well, like using a very slow print rate for the outer walls (around 15 mm/s). This also improves the quality of the prints, the slow speed, IMHO, ensures good layer adhesion. I reduced the acceleration to around 50 mm/s/s which results in stronger corners as the nozzle spends more time around them. Nozzle temperature at 230 degrees C as recommended, bed temperature at 80 deg. C. What really clinched it for me is when I started experimenting with the flow rate (I use Cura). I took it up from the default 100% to 110% and that was a real game changer for me. Lastly, I use a clear (spray on) lacquer on my glass plates which gives me excellent bed adhesion, I still use a raft though because printing directly on the glass can then result in the glass chipping when I remove prints.
I along with my mate bought a Up Box. Angus recommended the Up Mini 2 for me but in the end I stretched to its bigger brother. So the shop must of loved us, two Up Box sales in 1/2 hour. I make parts for my garden railway and I only printed in ABS. In fact the other day I picked up some Cocoon Create blue PLA for a rather nice AUD20 a roll and this was then used to print some cookie cutters. So a bit of a role reversal, an ABS printer that has only just printed my first model in PLA.
Up Box
ABS - lid and front door closed and the cooling fan directed away from the nozzle = strong clean models
PLA - lid and front door open, ceiling fan on and the cooling fan directed at the nozzle = beautiful looking sharp models
Filament ABS - Bilby, Up and Chinese cheapie. Bilby the best so far.
Filament PLA - Cocoon Create.
I use the default Up Box settings for both the bed and extruder for both Bilby and Up filament. I am still lowering the extruder temp slowly to hopefully get a good print from the Chinese filament.
Default Up PLA settings for the Cocoon Create filament works fine.
Print a holder for your vacuum on the CNC-machine! Ofcourse, you could try abs and petg to compare differences. I agree, petg or co-polyesters are great in some cases.
Hi
I got some crystal clear natural petg from atomic filament. I am using it to print an rc plane so the printer is pretty much doing something similar to a spiral vase since it is just do one outer layer. The recommended temp is 230/245 but when printing at 230 there are these little bubbles kinda on the print. I can't explain it very well but pretty much it looks like it is not extruding in some places resulting in there being white places on the side of the print. I backed the temp down and it was not until i got to 200 that they went away. Surprisingly it prints fine at 200 but how come it is doing this? Petg is not supposed to print that low from what I understand.
Thanks!
I print ABS using a modified Da Vinci 1.0a, e3dv6, titan and a small personal heater to keep the enclosure at 45 to 50c. Also using aluminum bed with Zebra plate and a silicone heat bed. So far I been able to print anything I threw at it including PC. I have also added a filament fan also.
ok but should i use an enclosure when printing with PETG as well???
Hi. I made an enclosure based on your advice for my Anycubic i3 Mega in order to print ABS filament. So far this has worked better than not having an enclosure, but I noticed some of the plastic piece like the filament feeder has warped with the internal heat. Should I add vents to the enclosure and what temperature should I limit the internal heat to be. Thanks.
We pretty much standardised on ABS for our Robox at work but even then results could be variable, Cel recently started stocking FormFutura's TitanX ABS on their SmartReel and I've been very impressed, maybe a premium price but worth every penny.
On the FlashForge Creator Pro we've been sticking with PLA after an early ABS test had really bad warping, with experimentation we could probably get ok performance on there too tbf.
So I've now ordered a CR-10 for home and whilst I'm mainly planning on printing PLA I'll definitely be looking to build an enclosure to give me the flexibility of the occasional ABS print.
I run a homemade clone of a Graber i3 solely on ABS, with no heated chamber and get a very good bed and layer adhesion. I print on a regular glass bed with hair spray heated at 110 Celsius and hotend at 237 Celsius.
The last part I printed, pealled ou some glass from my bed when cooling down. I only have to watch out for open windows and wind on the room.
But my new step is a heated chamber to have a more even contraction during cool down.
I print in ABS a lot, but most of my objects are costume or prop pieces and require post processing to smooth or weather the object. ABS has a tendency to take a hit and flex a little more than PLA, so when a prop is dropped the potential for breakage is reduced. Also, props can get left in hot cars. :D The main reason I use it is for the acetone smoothing and solvent welding. Since most of my pieces have to be printed in several parts, the ability to acetone weld them is awesome.
If PETG had chemical solubility with chemicals that are not majorly toxic, I would completely switch to it as I like printing it much more than ABS.
I have had my printers in enclosures that range from a nice electronics cabinet to a literal foam poster board box. The poasterboard box works really well actually and is cheap and easy to work with. Also, bed adhesion took a lot of reading and trial and error, but I hardly ever have parts warp nowadays, even large pieces.
again thomas good work! I am printing only pet and pla. ABS was the hell with my printer, nice Look but nearly no layer adhesion.
Tom what ambient temp is too low for general (non ABS) printing with PETG, PLA, etc? My first printer is on its way from Prusa and it will live in my basement where the ambient temp this time of year is around 16-17 C.
I use the ABS from extrudr every day and i am Happy... the MK2 print it really well and it works good with no camber... test the extrudr Filament :)
I know iam a bit late to the party with the video being 4 years old already, but iam building a heated enclosure for my prusa printers and since i need heatresistent parts, i was wondering if abs is the way to go? I printed some parts in asa already, but the colors i want are not aviable in asa. I have an enclosure for my printer but it only reaches arpund 37°
Hi Thomas , I have done some testing since the last time I left a message here, I have notice that my results are simular to yours even in Jamaica. The temperature here runs between 28 degrees and 31 degrees Celsius during the day and 26 to 28 degrees at night so it is pretty constant, however ABS seems to start lifting of the bed as soon as the print reaches the fourth layer ( bed temp 90 degrees Celsius ), I turned up the temp on the bed (100 degrees Celsius ) and while it would stay down longer, either there would be a shift with the model or it would release itself completely off the bed, I'm in the process of building an enclosure as we speak .