3D printing with ABS: Hotter nozzle or hotter ambient?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ม.ค. 2017
- You should probably be using a heated or enclosed chamber for ABS.
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I live in Egypt, room temperature can get very hot 48C hot, i don't think i need an enclosure 😂😂😂
Yassin Elessawy these temperatures can destroy PLA… it will decompose and crumble to dust
I live in Brazil, 35ºc ambient, on the spare room with A/C off, it printed much better than when I tried it on my room with A/C at 26º, but still not perfect, still got a few delaminations. I'm building an enclosure, witch will easily hit 48-50º, but now I'm worried about the electronics.
@@Spartacusse I'm probably late but, just leave the power supply outside the enclosure because it can't take the heat but the other electronics should be able to
As a Texan I identify with this comment
@@cheaterbane ayee me too 🤘
Regarding the fumes from ABS... ABS is hydroscopic and only emits fumes when it has absorbed water. If you keep ABS in a very low humidity environment when not in use, e.g. A sealed bucket with silica gel in it, you will get virtually no fumes when printing.
Thomas... regarding ABS and air quality. ... I've run tests with ABS, Nylon and PLA to characterize particle and gas generation for each type of filament. What I found was that if you keep your filament stored at 25% or less RH then none of the filaments generate detectable gas or particle counts. Stored at 50% RH, ABS generates large numbers of particles. I didn't check for gas generation at that RH.
My theory is that the water absorbed by the filament turns to steam when it is heated in the hot end. This causes numerous small steam explosions which spray tiny bits of the molten plastic thus generating airborne particles. Since ABS is more hydroscopic than PLA it will create more particles if it is not stored in a desiccated container.
I tested using a printer and laser particle counter inside an enclosed volume. None of the filaments that had been stored at or below 25% RH raised the enclosure particle counts at all. In fact, after closing the door to the enclosure, particle counts went down by up to 90% from room ambient levels due to settling and the fact that the room air, which always has particles, was not able to mix with the enclosed volume.
I thought you might find this interesting since the studies claiming ABS is dangerous did not account for humidity levels. If they would have done so their results would have been completely different.
Hi Tom. i mentioned this in your recent live stream: It'd be really good to see some more investigation into heated chambers. Methods for heating, control of temperature, effects on various materials etc etc. I really want to look at printing large strong parts from materials that can be difficult to print because of warping: ABS, ASA, Polycarbonate and POM (delrin).
Love the videos, thanks and keep up the good work! You make this hobby a pleasure!
check out stratasys, they have a heated chamber patent. its interesting how they seal the top of the machine
I total agree. when printing abs I've also found that an enclosure is a must. with my experience
I get stronger, better looking parts, a lot less warping, with the bonus of little to no layer separation.
Thomas... regarding ABS and air quality. ... I've run tests with ABS, Nylon and PLA to characterize particle and gas generation for each type of filament. I found that if I kept the filament stored at 25% or less RH then none of the filaments generate detectable gas or particle counts. Stored at 50% RH, ABS generates large numbers of particles. I didn't check for gas generation at that RH.
My theory is that the water absorbed by the filament turns to steam when it is heated in the hot end. This causes numerous small steam explosions which spray tiny bits of the molten plastic thus generating airborne particles. Since ABS is more hydroscopic than PLA it will create more particles if it is not stored in a desiccated container.
I tested using a printer and laser particle counter inside an enclosed volume. None of the filaments that had been stored at or below 25% RH raised the enclosure particle counts at all while printing. In fact, after closing the door to the enclosure, particle counts went down by up to 90% from room ambient levels due to settling and because the room air, which always has particles, was not able to mix with the enclosed volume.
I thought you might find this interesting since the studies claiming ABS is dangerous did not account for humidity levels. If they would have done so their results would have been completely different.
Tony Shulthise Very interesting!
Considering how you can never be sure how a filament was stored prior to shipping, would storing filament in very low humidity (e.g., next to a bit of silica gel) extract the water particles that might have gotten trapped? In other words, can filaments be "fixed" or do you have to rely on them never having been stored in a humid environment after extrusion at the factory?
aiklarung You can remove water from filament by storing spools in a desiccated box. If you are in a hurry you can heat the spool to around 125 F or so (maybe hotter but I don't know if it will affect the shape) for a few hours to get some of the moisture out.
I just keep my spools in a sealed plastic container with about 2 lbs of desiccant and a humidity monitor. When the humidity monitor reads over 25% it's time to heat my desiccant for a few hours at 180F to dry it back out. Or you can use color changing desiccant which changes colors based on moisture levels. You can find everything on Amazon.
Tony Shulthise thanks for the info!
Did you conclude that the out gassing is being better propagated by the higher water vapor output?
123jerro We measured very high particle counts when printing with ABS stored at 50% relative humidity. For ABS stored at 20% RH the particle count didn't raise at all and VOC's we under safe limits.
Great Video!!! I've noticed alot of 3d printing videos in general are more geared for the beginner so its nice that alot of your videos are good for beginners and experienced printers.
Aluminized mylar emergency blankets make great shrouds as an impromptu build chamber and are cheap/free. Even just wrapping the back and top leaving the front open for visibility makes a big difference.
You deserve at least 1 million subs. Your videos are definitely the best I watch! Keep it up!!!
Excellent and Informative as always. Keep up the great work! I've learned so much from your channel.
For those who thinks about building a heated chamber make sure to use aluminium based heat elements as they do not get as hot a steel based ones which reduces the risk of a fire if you make the chamber of a flammable material(like wood).
Also make sure to build some kind of ventilation that will circulate the hot air in the top of the case to the bottom. I plan to route some PVC piping outside the chamber. Oh and make a window, so you can check on your prints without opening up the chamber, which would cause a lot of air to blow over the part. It can be good idea to place your electronics outside the chamber, as it might not like such high temperatures although my RAMPS has held up for hundreds of hours in 60C without a problem.
Anyway heated chambers does miracles for ABS and similar materials. Anyone who says otherwise does not print large enough prints or do not care much about the strength of the part. It also reduces the noise, the smell(unhealthy or not - ABS does smell) as well as the power consumption(less power needed to keep the bed hot).
ABS has got to be one of my favourite materials. I print in a heated build chamber between 35 & 40c, as heigh as I can get away with. Part cooling does help as long as you don't over do it.
PETG is the way to go. I only use ABS now, for small parts that require good looks or strength. PETG is strong enough and heat-resistant, but I dislike the shininess of it.
Great info as always Tom, thank you.
I love IC3Ds black ABS. 240-245c and 110c bed on diluted wood glue or glue stick. works decent without an enclosure, but is fantastic with one.
I recently tried enclosure over Prusa i3 and ABS parts were so much nicer, stronger and had les layer separation. printed 20 cm long part and the bed adhesion was perfect. no warping at all.
This video is so philosophical, and I've probably watched it more than any of your other videos. I'm not sure if I will ever understand the strength benefit from the 20% fan. What a brain teaser. It is difficult to put words to the nuances and conclusions we make when developing work-arounds in 3d printing, but you do an excellent job. Thanks.
i've been printing ABS with a plastic bag over my printer at 235C and a 95C heated bed temperature without a cooler at 100mm/s. i measured the air temperature at 55C. that gives me really resistant prints and very good layer adhesion. the mechanical properties result mostly isotropic, it doesn't break on the layer interfaces. in terms of quality i didn't have any problem, prints end loolking very nice. And i also saw a big difference in the mechanical properties from one brand to other. i assume it has to do with the 'copolymer' nature of abs. each manufacturer has it's own recipe.
I've mostly used PLA except for stuff that I knew needed to withstand higher temperatures or survive outdoors, there I''ve used ABS. I don't have a chamber, but I do have a heated bed. Now here's and idea I've used....Once my ABS print is finished I throw a towel over it and then shut down the heated bed. This allows the part to cool down more slowly, and it seems to help avoid cracking and layer separation. I got the idea from reading about how glass is cast, and without this trick I can actually HEAR the ABS cracking as it cools!
Kenneth Scharf that's surely a thing. but that's not a definitive solution at all. i'm using abs as daily driver, in a closed room, bit with no enclosure. heated bed at 95°C.
if the object i'm printing is somewhat large, it will warp during the print, if the object i'm printing is also high layers will crack too. so no way to do what you say since when the printer stops everything is already ruined
I'm not saying that an enclosure isn't necessary, just pointing out my experience. As I said, I don't print much ABS, and I don't use it for large parts. I do get layer separation, but use acetone to make repairs. Still, I've had few additional failures post printing by slowing down the cooling process. I do plan on adding an enclosure to my printer eventually.
Good material to catch as always - TY for the notes. I was out across the river in Portland, OR (USA) this morning pricing things out for a enclosure build. :)
Thanks Tom!
Given that I have random sheets of acrylic and the ambient temperature around my printer is normally 13C, maybe I should try to make an enclosure for my printer.
Hi Thomas thank you for your videos and all you have done for the 3d printing community ☺ . I have only just watched this video on ABS and I thought I would add something here. I only print in ABS or higher temperature stuff and I built a custom fully enclused printer for just such materials. As you have stated in this video that as the chamber temperature rises there can be a negative impact on the print quality ! - I overcome this issue by removing all fans from the chamber and I use very fine airblow nozzles to achieve part cooling during printing. This has allowed me to obtain much better ptints whilts providing warp free and super strong end results 😀 all with cheap no brand ABS. I use a small air pump and flow reguators to fine tune the cooling at present but I have in mind a better self regulating system. thanks again for great content and excellently presented material.
I've finally switched to PETG for most things. The mechanical properties are excellent, it is easy to print, its non-toxic and has nice colors. The only things we print with ABS are printer parts near the print heads, such as fan brackets and ducts.
I also have the Raise 3d N2+ printer which is enclosed with a separate removable top. Having the enclosed chamber improves all my prints, even PLA, by buffering changes in ambient temperature and air currents during long prints. Check your prints for marks on long prints with the air conditioner or heater kicking on and off. They are there and they are preventable.
I prefer PETG, since it is more forgiving and doesn't smell bad.
Thanks for sharing Tom I've been looking at stronger materials and I was thinking ABS but I might test some others before making my decision now.
Another awesome upload. 👍
Very informative,thanks for sharing your experience :)
Great review, as usual.
Hi Thomas, the thing with the Trashbag, you should add a "Use on own Risk". :)
I know, but in some countries you'll forced to take responsibly for everything. The hint i give is "Coffee, burn, millions of $$$" ;)
@Mykel Hardin no, there was a comment i replied to, but it seems to be deleted now.
I actually just made a box for my Prusa I3 mk2. I was having corner curling problems with pla (only filament I've used so far) and it's done wonders. The box actually heats up to 41 at the base (that's where I sat the thermometer) on it's own but it also caused a jam with a little tweaking I found that the 31-33 degree range is all you need for pla. It's winter here and I had been printing in the 20-23 degree range if anyone was curious
At my job, I primarily run ABS as we have Afinia (UP!) printers. As you may know, the proprietary ABS made for these printers has notably higher extrusion temperature of 270 degrees Celsius. They also have direct extruders equipped with motor fans that are intended to double as part cooling fans; there is a toggle that allows for the user to re-direct the air away from the part, so that's typically what I've opted to do. The H800 features an enclosure. It can print larger parts remarkably well IF the bed temperature is changed to 100 degrees Celsius (which I believe is the highest it will go; I could be remembering that inaccurately, however and that may just be how hot I was willing to set it), the bed is amazingly (read: manually) leveled, the print surface is BuildTak, and a glue stick has been applied. There aren't really too many hoops to jump through, but it was a bit of a saga to hone things to a comfortable place. The H480 is much smaller and has a completely open build chamber. Using the factory settings for ABS (270 degrees Celsius on the hot-end, 90 degrees Celsius on the bed, whatever print speed the "fine" setting implies), printing onto perfboard, and an application of glue from the trusty glue stick, I am able to get surprisingly nice results. These nice results are highly dependent on the model being printed. It's like usual with ABS - small things work well when the x-axis and y-axis size is relatively similar and the print isn't too tall. Otherwise, there's definitely some layer adhesion trouble and guaranteed warping, even with a raft (the rafts always stick fine; the parts tend to warp off of the rafts). I probably should have mentioned that with these printers, rafts are an absolute must. Even with glue on BuildTak, the filament refuses to even begin to adhere to the surface. I also failed to mention infill. It's an unfortunate requisite because the UP software doesn't seem to have a surface density adjuster for the side walls of the print; only the top and bottom can be adjusted. I typically set my infill at 65% so that the part can't be crushed in my hand but I am still using slightly less material.
Regardless, the point of all of this extraneous information is to let you know that in my experience with my machines (which are ABS-centric, to say the least), ABS can be printed and printed well on a printer without an enclosure. It's unquestionably more effective to print with an enclosure if aesthetically pleasing and successful prints are the desired outcome. I intend to build an enclosure for the H480 for the express purpose of printing ABS. All of that being said, I've liked working with PLA much more. It just sort of works, which is not really the case with ABS. I have been doing a lot of research as of late to acquire a better working understanding of 3D printing beyond the machines that I currently have access to, and that's allowed me to get some seriously nice results using ABS on my printers. I haven't printed PLA recently enough to apply my newfound knowledge to the process, but entirely in spite of that, my old prints with PLA are still just as nice as my new ABS ones. I can't even imagine how good they will be! Even with machines intended for ABS printing and using their exceptional filament, I see no purpose in using ABS over other filaments that offer better looking and/or more structurally sound prints.
One easy way to make a cheap heated chamber : I used a big cardboard box doubled with a thermal blanket film inside. It will heat up much faster only with the energy of the heated bed. It can reach 50C or more easily. for ABS I use a heated chamber + part fan at 50% and nozzle temp at 245C. I rarely print with ABS, only when I need thermal resistance. I prefer PETG for mechanichal resistance (+heated chamber against large part bending)
We pretty much standardised on ABS for our Robox at work but even then results could be variable, Cel recently started stocking FormFutura's TitanX ABS on their SmartReel and I've been very impressed, maybe a premium price but worth every penny.
On the FlashForge Creator Pro we've been sticking with PLA after an early ABS test had really bad warping, with experimentation we could probably get ok performance on there too tbf.
So I've now ordered a CR-10 for home and whilst I'm mainly planning on printing PLA I'll definitely be looking to build an enclosure to give me the flexibility of the occasional ABS print.
I used Kimya Carbon Fiber (20%) ABS to print my Prusa MK3S+ extruder parts, using the Kimya presets in PrusaSlicer. I printed in an enclosure at 40-45C. Bed temp 110C, hot end 265C. They came out perfect the first time. No elefant foot, no layer separation, no warping. Adhesion to the flex steel smooth PEI plate was good. All parts fit together perfectly. I used a brim, but that was a lot of work with the sharp knife to remove, so subsequent parts I print with no brim. Still good adhesion. There was a tiny bit of surface roughness from tiny bubbles, so I suggest to keep your ABS in a desiccator even while printing.
Thank you!
My experience with ABS and PETG has been the exact oposite of yours. I have never had major issues with ABS (only when using incorrect print settings or very large thin volumes) and i tried many different brands, even for fairly large prints like 20x300x20mm. PETG on the other hand gave me a hard time at least 50% of the time, allthough i haven't tried more than two different brands... Worth noting that i always print ABS in an enclosed chamber (35c in winter and +50c in summer). ABS has always been my main filament because it's better for post processing (sanding and acetone welding) and it also works very well in combination with TPU and SemiFlex. I just recently also started printing with PLA and i've been printing like crazy since 2013. I feel like i should give PETG another chance but for now ABS is still my favorite.
ABS was my goto for a couple years. Enclosed is what you want. My chamber temps hit 60-70C all the time. No fan, easy on the speed and a slow cool down makes good stuff for me.
ABS is currently my go-to filament and I'm really happy with both the strength and print quality - but then I'm using a CEL Robox and their own brand ABS. I'm also looking at trying polycarbonate and nylon in the near future and one of those may usurp ABS as my favourite.
I love petg, pla works well for most things, abs just tries my patience.
Exactly, PETG is awesome! I print huge parts all the time and I need something that won't melt in my car... lol.
Plus food safe is cool.
Harbinger Arts petg is the new pla
i'm looking to see if i can find a filament that has higher heat resistance so i can use it on functional parts outdoors in direct and high australian sun conditions and in vehicles etc And i don't have a heated bed on my ATOM 2.0 - is this PETG capable of being printed on glass beds unheated?
May I suggest Polycarbonate. But for either one, its worth getting a heated bed.
Polycarbonate wont be printable on most 3d printers, needs an all metal hotend
I run ABS on my Monoprice maker select in my room with zero air flow and it works like a charm.
I use an enclosure heated to 30oC due to the printer being in the garage with is down about 5oC at this time of year. This gives consistent prints
I've had similar results. With a heated bed I use an ooze shield to enclose the part and trap the heat gradient a bit. It improved my results with polycarbonate (specifically Polymaker PC-Plus) significantly. This technique does work best on parts with a cross section
Here at the equator, I just need to bring the printer outside under the sun and ABS will print without a heated enclosure.
Another reason to build an enclosure: You won't roast to death from your printer overwhelming your crappy air conditioner in the middle of Summer, since more of the heat hangs out in the box. If the air around the printer is warmer, the hotend and bed heater don't have to work as hard, so they generate less heat over the course of a print. That also means a little power savings, though that might go right out the window with active heating.
Great suggestions Tom, I have been waiting for a review like this since 2-3 years ago from absoulutely anyone. My biggest concern will always be when printing bigger parts, the constant repetition of open source clones in the market proves that the idea is their except not directly dealt with, a enclosure would push forward many major ideas like the transition disk drives did with hellium (faster speeds, ...), it will potentially start a market that embraces actual security mechanisms (for possible fires,fumes,electrical issues....) at consumer prices; or maybe it's just the ABS filament I have been printing with all day is starting to get to me.
Only got an enclosure. No heated chamber (well heats up a bit, yes). Works with the right filament. Some filaments are aweful at layeradheasion. Raising the temps helps, but warps off of the platform... Test several filaments and stick to the best is all I can say on that topic. Had like IDK 20 brands and I stick to extrudr from now on. Doesnt even need a brim to print (on glas with gluestick), lower bed heat and surprisingly low extrusiontemps but is rigit and has a high melting point as others too...
edit: before I forget: Yes use ABS mainly cause its kindof cheap, even from extrudr. ABS still gets me the best surface finish (without acetone!), the least bumps, blobs and scatters and has low friction and high melting temp (good for mechanical parts for cars and such) and its not brittle. Wont shatter into your face when it gets overstressed. For really strong parts I use polymakers PC Max or PC Plus or taulman 910.
Hi, Thomas - I started with PLA, but heard good things about PETg and tried it. I think it's a fantastic choice, so much of a general purpose 'do everything' filament that I've never tried ABS. All I use is PETg now. Currently printing out pieces for the Tech2C Hypercube printer (check his youtube channel) and all parts are crisp, flat, uniform and light.
I have been printing almost nothing but ABS for the last year and a half, I love the stuff. I have built a heated enclosure and get great results.
recently started playing with PETG, or well a "SuperPLA" variant and while it is easier to print I find I just dont get the same predictable quality I know and love from abs (almost all of it eSun ABS and ABS+ with a few spools of Verbatim abs) more than anything else I disliek the "shine" petg has compared to the mostly matte finish with ABS
Hi Thomas I only print with ABS in a enclosed area off cause and I have great success with it so no complaints here. Thank you so much for a great video again as always. I have learned so much from you so please keep up the great work. My printer is a scratch build P3Steel v4 stainless steel frame. Friendly greatings, I am also from Johannesburg
- South Africa.
Hi Tom I print a lot with ABS. I have one enclosed and heated corexy and one open kossel XL. Smaller parts work on the kossel Xl as it has a 330mm bed, so the ambient near the part is higher than it would be on a smaller bed. I avoid printing near the edge for that and other obvious reasons. I use mainly budget abs such as excelvan at 240 deg. I have a fully enclosed corexy where I routine print big parts often with large volcano nozzles, my chamber is just around the build volume, and can go to 50-55deg C just off its bed heater. Parts come out strong and precise. I print my first layer at 250 to get good adhesion to a printbite surface then lower it to the point where I can't see small bubbles/breakdown products in the material.
I print exclusively in ABS since that's what my old Makerbot 2X recommended. Never had any issues with it, but it is enclosed. Print at 220C with a bed at 110C.
I agree totally. I think it is the temp spread (ambient vs printing temp) that is where the problems are. ABS requires a tighter them spread than other filament options. Thst bring said, I have even had similar issues with PLA corners warping when prin ting with too much of a temp spread (60c bed, 210c hotend, 0c ambient)...my garage can get cold in the winter.
I print ABS using a modified Da Vinci 1.0a, e3dv6, titan and a small personal heater to keep the enclosure at 45 to 50c. Also using aluminum bed with Zebra plate and a silicone heat bed. So far I been able to print anything I threw at it including PC. I have also added a filament fan also.
I've been using an enclosure for years. started just using cardboard... the newest design I'm building, is basically a custom enclosed h-bot, mostly to help reduce the risk of winter drafts causing a failed print.
At your recommendation I'm bumping up the extruder temp (just 5C for now) and trying a light fan on ABS prints. Thus far it looks pretty good. Hopefully it makes overhangs slightly better on my ABS prints as well as improving strength.
thanks for this video I bought a bunch of ABS because i got a great deal on the spools but have not had good results and dont really need additional strength.
Hey Thomas great video as usual... I print exclusively with ABS. Having the right printer for it helps most. I have 2 Up Box's and an Up mini 2 and they print abs absolutely flawless. In fact they print abs better than my Wanhao duplicator i3 2.1 prints PLA. I used to print with just regular abs and the Ups printed that great. However I have since switch to eSun's ABS+ as my go to filament and the prints come out as mentioned absolutely flawless and super strong... Since the Ups have an all metal hotend I do print the abs+ at 260c... Another great abs filament that prints perfectly (virtually zero warping or artifacting) is FormFutura's EasyFil ABS...
I've only worked with ABS, except for a few experiments including HIPS and PETG. For years I struggled with warps and cracks, designing around it and so on. One day I needed a part that absolutely required a large vertical wall that was going to split and there was no trick to get around it. I finally built a box to go over the printer with a 100W incandescent lamp as a heater. (The nozzle cools to 40-45°C, in the shade, after a print is done.) The box fixed it. As noted, layer adhesion also improved drastically.
I've never been very interested in PLA, since so many of my prints will be exposed to a lot of heat.
I've been thinking I should add a cooling fan, and this is adding some urgency to that idea. I should build a new enclosure too, since those pizza boxes are looking a little rough.
Dale, what are the main reasons you have been using ABS? Can you use PETG?
I started out using it because it's a tougher material. I never knew that without an enclosure, the prints probably weren't tougher than a PLA print. But I quickly found myself printing things that need heat tolerance. The part I mentioned before stays on the dash of my car, for example. Others are always exposed to the sun outside a vehicle. Using PETG in all those applications would be just another disappointing half measure. Not nearly as satisfactory as taping together a box so I can print ABS well.
I rarely print with ABS... I pretty much leave it for when, like you said, I need the temp stability or I need to smooth it. I've found splitting but I have definitely found the enclosure helps a lot, but on really tall pieces I find it to still be a problem.
I have an EcubMaker fantasy pro have printed abs almost exclusively for over a year. I use hatchbox abs @ 235 c nozzle, bed 110 c it is enclosed but no heated chamber . 0 issues with warping or cracks etc no layer adhesion issues. Quality is phenomenal even on larger 180mm diameter 200 mm prints. It did take time to dial it in to get a good surface finish. Mainly infill and increasing shells to at least 3 and top and bottom solids to 3. I print from. 1 to. 2 layer height @ a pretty quick 80 mm/s though prints 1st 3 layers at 40 mm/s same for top 3. No ringing or other issues is it more temperamental than petg sure. Though it has more flex mechanically(making take repeated stress better) , captures detail well and has a lot of post processing options that other materials don't. Its heat tolerance it a warm climate of Texas makes it good all round but does have a learning curve steeper than other materials.
I had 6 printers running around the clock making parts I would sell on Ebay. I printed in ABS exclusively. I solved the curling problem. I would print with an open reprap, a heated bed set to 90F degrees on a glass bed covered in a single large sheet of kapton tape. I then covered that with a layer of home made ABS juice (acetone and scrap abs in the same color as the print). On large parts I would print with a "skirt" of 2 layers. Parts never came up. it WAS difficult to get them off the glass, and I would use a razor scraper to do it, but that was the price to pay for perfect parts.
Fully agree :)
I keep my aging Flashforge pro, just for the times I need to print with ABS. I have been advising my customers to consider using PETG or PC if they need strength for a prototype. I have also noticed that there does not seem to be as much ABS filament out there. I think it is slowly losing demand.
I run a homemade clone of a Graber i3 solely on ABS, with no heated chamber and get a very good bed and layer adhesion. I print on a regular glass bed with hair spray heated at 110 Celsius and hotend at 237 Celsius.
The last part I printed, pealled ou some glass from my bed when cooling down. I only have to watch out for open windows and wind on the room.
But my new step is a heated chamber to have a more even contraction during cool down.
I print with ABS 90% of the time now, I started with PLA, moved to PETG then to ABS once I had built a DIY enclosure. I feel I get the best prints for mechanical parts using ABS and an enclosure.......but I would still recommend PETG to someone new to 3D printing as ABS takes some work to get it printing at its best.
Without an enclosure and a PEI heated bed ABS is a nightmare, with an enclosure and PIE heated bed its a dream.
I along with my mate bought a Up Box. Angus recommended the Up Mini 2 for me but in the end I stretched to its bigger brother. So the shop must of loved us, two Up Box sales in 1/2 hour. I make parts for my garden railway and I only printed in ABS. In fact the other day I picked up some Cocoon Create blue PLA for a rather nice AUD20 a roll and this was then used to print some cookie cutters. So a bit of a role reversal, an ABS printer that has only just printed my first model in PLA.
Up Box
ABS - lid and front door closed and the cooling fan directed away from the nozzle = strong clean models
PLA - lid and front door open, ceiling fan on and the cooling fan directed at the nozzle = beautiful looking sharp models
Filament ABS - Bilby, Up and Chinese cheapie. Bilby the best so far.
Filament PLA - Cocoon Create.
I use the default Up Box settings for both the bed and extruder for both Bilby and Up filament. I am still lowering the extruder temp slowly to hopefully get a good print from the Chinese filament.
Default Up PLA settings for the Cocoon Create filament works fine.
I´m not using ABS anymore. I started 3D printing with ABS but I just don´t need that high temp stability. For strength I use PrimaSelect PLA or PETG. In case I want and need ABS like Material I use Zortrax Ultrat. Doesn't´t smell that much, easy to print. For big parts I´ve made a simple enclosure from foam. My first Printer, the Tiertime UP Mini printed ABS like a boss... Thanks for all these Videos Tom!
Could you do a video about fan ducts and refrigeration in general?
I am using ABS since I started 3d printing things. But I do have fully enclosed printer so I never had any issues with ABS. There is one thing that you didn't mention, Tom, and that is how ABS is easy to work with after print is complete-PLA nad PETG are hard to file, drill and sand if you are using hand tools. :)
I have my printer in a nice little cupboard... the air inside gets up to about 40C (during long prints) and ABS prints quite well :)
My first 3D printer was DaVinci 1.0A which has an enclosure and I put Repetier on it. For over 2 years now I have been printing only ABS and never had a problem, I didn't even know what warping was until I read about it. Never had a nozzle jam, not once. I very often print prototypes with very thin walls (0.2-0.6mm), they are strong enough and it is fast to print. I set bed temperature to 90C and nozzle 235C, used all kinds of cheap ABS from Ebay and didn't have a single problem. I guess the only downside I can think of is smell, not sure it that could be a health issue, so I recently bought another printer to experiment with PLA. But so far PLA has been more challenging (struggling now with stringing, I have bowden extruder so retraction is not as effective).
can't wait for your comparison of some special copolyesters (specifically Colorfabb XT, HT and NGEN) and how those compare to ABS.
Here in australia I have no issue with abs during hot or cold, but I do use a heated bed at 90deg. also printing high skirts will keep the heat in. an enclosure is on my to-do list as this will require less hairspray.
oiling the filament is a big no no with abs as well..
good videos by the way
if anything I have better success with abs over pla. I also use 238deg on my notes.. prusa i2
I get the most problems with printing/clogging/curling when using ABS. My go to is PLA, but this video made me want to try new things, like PET-G!
yeah new video!
again thomas good work! I am printing only pet and pla. ABS was the hell with my printer, nice Look but nearly no layer adhesion.
Print a holder for your vacuum on the CNC-machine! Ofcourse, you could try abs and petg to compare differences. I agree, petg or co-polyesters are great in some cases.
I have 4 machines which I have build myself, all of them have their heated enclosure which permit 45 to 50 degree centigrade and I use ABS+ because it's much easier to get nice, smooth and easily sandable parts compared to PLA or PetG that are much more labor-intensive in the post-print stage. A couple of sheets of MDF, some insulation plate and 2 incandescent light bulbs is all you need to make ABS+ printing easy as 123. :)
I used to print a lot 8 years ago in the early MakerBot days (I have #180). It was all 3mm ABS back then. I didn't have an enclosure, but had many successful prints. Admittedly, my prints were generally < 2" in the horizontal directions. I recently got back into printing with a Prusa Mini and PLA/PETG 1.75mm filament. The results are stunning and far exceed what I could do back then, though electronics where based on a 8-bit Atmel, the stepper drivers didn't have microstepping, no heated bed, cooling fans, etc. Rafts were important, but seem rarely used nowadays. I bought a spool of 1.75mm ABS, but haven't used it yet. Curious how things have changed.
just built my first Delta printer, an admittedly cheap one, and have so far had good luck with abs and OK luck with PLA, eager to try other materials. petg is high on my list
I print in ABS a lot, but most of my objects are costume or prop pieces and require post processing to smooth or weather the object. ABS has a tendency to take a hit and flex a little more than PLA, so when a prop is dropped the potential for breakage is reduced. Also, props can get left in hot cars. :D The main reason I use it is for the acetone smoothing and solvent welding. Since most of my pieces have to be printed in several parts, the ability to acetone weld them is awesome.
If PETG had chemical solubility with chemicals that are not majorly toxic, I would completely switch to it as I like printing it much more than ABS.
I have had my printers in enclosures that range from a nice electronics cabinet to a literal foam poster board box. The poasterboard box works really well actually and is cheap and easy to work with. Also, bed adhesion took a lot of reading and trial and error, but I hardly ever have parts warp nowadays, even large pieces.
Nice video thanks. I only print in PLA and get strong parts that dont warp. My solar panel brackets have held tight for a year and in 50+ mph wind. Never understood the need for abs. Tom could you maybe do a video on upgrading a printer to have an enclosure? Also would it effect PLA? Thanks and happy new year. :)
After switching to Zortrax M200 I use ABS and their similar-to-ABS property materials exclusively with cardboard sidepanels. Previously when I used my P3Steel and i2, I used PLA almost everytime because of the ease of printing, but M200 tops it all. I reckon you Thomas haven't had the chance to test out the Zortrax but if you're interested I could possibly print you the Filaween test parts for compariso :)
I use ABS almost exclusively as that is what I originally started using. I just recently picked up some PLA to try and while it is substantially easier to print, I still seem to revert back to ABS as most of my printed parts need either heat resistance or strength.
I am getting great results from ABS, but only after building a wood and plexiglass enclosure for my printer. No active heating, but normally the internal chamber temperature reaches around 90 to 100 degrees Fahrenheit. I was getting usable prints without it, but I had a lot of issues with uncontrollable warping on larger pieces.
Also, for the record, I am using an Anet A8 (a.k.a. cheap chinese printer) with WYZ Works filament. I have seen much more expensive setups printing pieces that look absolutely terrible.
In my opinion, it all comes down to how diligently you are with calibrating your printer and testing different combinations of settings in your slicer application, but with ABS the best thing I ever did was build a chamber for it. I am leaps and bounds ahead of where I was when I started, but it has taken a lot of patience and many terrible or completely failed prints to get here.
Was going to build an enclosure, but it sounds like I can just print outdoors in an Australian summer! Or on a warmer winter day!
Iv'e actually had good results with my full size Fabrikator by taping foam construction board panels on the sides , front , back and as much as possible on the top.
layer adhesion is not an issue if you print at 280c, 90mm/s speed and use some insulation foam to enclose the 3d printer.
Hi Thomas , I have done some testing since the last time I left a message here, I have notice that my results are simular to yours even in Jamaica. The temperature here runs between 28 degrees and 31 degrees Celsius during the day and 26 to 28 degrees at night so it is pretty constant, however ABS seems to start lifting of the bed as soon as the print reaches the fourth layer ( bed temp 90 degrees Celsius ), I turned up the temp on the bed (100 degrees Celsius ) and while it would stay down longer, either there would be a shift with the model or it would release itself completely off the bed, I'm in the process of building an enclosure as we speak .
Brilliant Video as ever Thomas :D , I have terrible issues printing ABS , usually fine till they get to a bridge.. then it's spaghetti time !! Now here is my fear of fire.. I use an enclosure cupboard and hopefully any impending damage would be limited by oxygen starvation but time is always the saviour and a smoke alarm in the enclosure could be a life saving preventative measure .. Please please please could you shed some light on how we could maybe add fume sensors to a spare pin ? or maybe even use a Nano to provide some vapour feedback without being a process drain on the main board ? Cheers Man . Thank you for what you do. More please .. We do enjoy the outakes , your smile is contagious.
I actually live on the equator with no air conditioning, will give it a shot without an enclosure
I use the ABS from extrudr every day and i am Happy... the MK2 print it really well and it works good with no camber... test the extrudr Filament :)
My main machine is an XYZ davinci 1.0 I have it dialed in perfectly on bootstrapped firmware to work with hatchbox abs filament from Amazon. Enclosures definitely matter, the davinci is completely enclosed and I attribute that to the perfect consistent prints I get.
Tom, could you do a review of the BL Touch? I keep seeing it but i've never seen that type of magnetic/touch probe before. Do you think it would be useful?
Tom - You didn't test ABS in an enclosure with active heating? I would think the printing could be done at a lower nozzle temperature and with a part cooling fan, eliminating the temperature artifacting, while maintaining layer adhesion strength due to the slower overall cooling with a high ambient temperature in an actively heated enclosed space. I've enclosed my Kossel Mini chinese clone in a wood and plexiglass homemade enclosure. I plan to fit a heat gun to it (blowing away from the print volume as much as possible) and try printing ABS. I don't have a part cooling fan attached or a thermometer in there yet, so it will have to wait until I get to do that.
I had abandoned ABS but I am building a new printer and it will get an enclosure so everyone said no to PLA and PETG due to their lower Tg as it will get hot in there and the motors will get hotter etc... People who used those materials in heated chambers, or even in really good enclosures, had warping so I had to go back to ABS (not counting my TPU I got for free). By the way all of my parts, so far, have been done on an I3 Rework at 70% infill custom pattern and no issues BUT it will come as my final part is beyond the 10mm safety margin I learned about when I first made this printer. I have an enclosed machine but it is a PITA to work with as it needs a new bed and this time don't even use the "pc glue" buildtak material. I did what the Chinese said and put the bed at 100c and it burned the plastic, burned the buildtak, and the connector melted. So, pffft to that but I will do a replacement and get some glass or I will simply use it for parts because I do not like Mightyboards using Sailfish. Did you know Makerbots and anything using Sailfish do not have real PWM? Nope, 1bit simulation AND the fan is either 0 or 255 as anything not a 0 is fully on. I was ticked at that and found that out after I hit Jetty, and his minions, over the head with a sledge hammer to come clean about it.
Hey I've been thinking of building an inclosure for my printer for multiple reasons; much higher ambient temps, fumes/gases from certain materials, to silence it all! All cuz it's in my bedroom which is a basement of a 4 story house so when the main living areas are approx 72° F my room is approx 64-66°F. I'm wanting to build it most likely out of a composite Aluminum (aluminum sheets with some sort of filler in between for insulation & sound proofing but I'm also wanting to add a high air volume extraction set of 3 fans side by side @ the top ideally that goes through a layer of activated carbon & then a HEPA filter! Reason for that is so that I'd be able to print higher temp filaments with extraction fans & board cooling fans off but then I'd also be able to still print with the lower temp filaments by simply running the extraction fans along with all others instead of leaving doors open or anything like that. Q for you is do you know of anywhere that I could find DIY PLANS for building an extractor unit & is there anywhere I can find measurements that I'll need like example: 1st a site with a list of approx print head & bed & maybe even ambient temps needed for each type of filament! Then some sort of calculator to input dimension of inside enclosure volume & how much air volume I'd need to move per second to accommodate the things I'm doing. Also as for how well enclosures will hold heat (R value) any recommendations to be most efficient holding in heat as well as allowing it to escape when needed, this is partially my reasoning for picking composite Aluminum to build it out of or do you have better recommendations as far as material to build with? I also want to keep any hazard of fire out of the question cuz I've seen some build out of cardboard & I can just vision flames, especially overnight prints! Thanks Tom C
I routinely print ABS (eSun brand) without an enclosure with great results. And, I don't live at the equator. I live in the Los Angeles area.
You sounded like a Doctor about to break some bad news there at the beginning lol.
Hi Thomas, I live close enough to the equator (Jamaica) and we have drafts of cool air that will affect your prints . I've just gotten the materials to build my enclosure. I'll give you an update when I get my printer dialed in.
I made a metal enclosure with glass windows for my Simple metal about a year ago. I use ABS almost exclusively with great results and good layer adhesion. The enclosure has no heater other than the bed and extruder which keep the inside air temperature around 95 degrees F. The lower-half of the printer, which hold the electronics is outside of the enclosure and has a separate fan to keep the components cool. I make even large full height prints with no issues. Google "3D printed rocket playhouse" to see one of my projects (white and orange rocket playhouse with vehicle and trailers).
I have two printers one has a enclosed chamber and the other does not and I print with abs a lot I have tried printing abs on my non enclosed printer with out any luck i was getting layer gaps and warping so having a chamber defiantly is needed in my opinion when printing in my enclosed printer i run my abs @240c with heated glass bed @95c and try to keep my infill at 10% to prevent layer gaps