@@ronniewatkins… It never happened (and the HOF nomination will never happen) because Bill France Jr. couldn’t stand Yunick’s “disrespect” towards the sanctioning body, and the ease with which Smokey could get under his and his father’s skin. He’d just as soon walk away like he didn’t need a thing from NASCAR’s brass…and DID when he went IndyCar racing and made great strides in that racing series…
@@ryanstuckey8677 Smokey wouldn't be controlled by France is more the truth. EVERYTHING 'Ol Bill did was to lone his pockets... and his descendants have continued that family creed.
I couldn’t hit the like button fast enough. Those ol’ characters is what made NASCAR so fun. I’m just sitting here smiling at those stories. Those guys are my heroes.
And this is what made NASCAR. Not a field of identical cars with identical races and teams. Skill, ingenuity, creativity, craftsmanship, determination. These "gray areas" are what kept the small hometown teams on the track with the big dogs. Something we will never see again.
That's certainly how it started, too! It began with cars that looked like Grandma's, but Unless Grandma had been drinking moonshine, like the car, They usually weren't capable of going that fast!
Smokey deserve to be inducted into NHOF. Without Smokey Yunick it's not an NHOF for many many fans including me. The day Smokey Yunick will be in the NHOF I will go visit the so call NHOF. My 2 cents.
@@dhill4001 taught daily @ school of hard knocks but u can learn from anything listening twice as much as we speek is why we have 2 ears and only 1 mouth in center of L&R iinfluiences is not always popular choice but always most used lol nobody wants to. Finish last in race on purpose
I read a story by Smokey years ago in circle track magazine about him and someone else putting blades on the clutch and shaping the inside of the bell housing to make a turbine that blew into the air cleaner. I don’t think it made much because of the materials he had to work with at the time. It fascinated me as a kid, the ingenuity those guys had was awesome.
@@ludicrous7044 technically I think it was more of a centrifugal supercharger, but yes. They put turbine style fins on the pressure plate and shaped the bell housing to make it more efficient. It pulled air from under the car and discharged out of the top of the bell housing into the bottom of the air cleaner. It was in an old circle track racing magazine in the early 90’s if my memory is correct.
Some of my favorite stories involved The Elliott Brothers, Like using the Roll bar as an extra fuel cell, narrowing the car so no one could draft Bill, and I still wanna know how he came from 3 laps down to win that dang race, there had to be some underhanded help somewhere.
The Elliott Brothers were so brilliant and excellent gamesmen: Their “creativity” was masked by their “aw shucks” down-home Georgia boy personas. They seemed like genuinely great guys, but they were as interested in winning as everyone else. Them not hiring anyone from NC to guard their secrets is telling. I’d love to know what was going on with that Talladega car too.
@@b.w.22 , We followed Bills career for a long time, used to watch him race at the local track in GA @ Lanier Raceway. He just lived the next county over from us, we were all about the same age. Sadly we did not get to watch him finish his career as we moved away to a place that didn't televise NASCAR, but we cheer Chase on and remember how much he races like his daddy did.
Now I’m not mechanically inclined enough to really know what I’m talking about but I think Smokey Yunick said the Elliotts did have horsepower but they had a trick rear differential where the axle came disconnected to differential on both sides and it handle like an independent suspension and he got through the corners better. I don’t think back then NASCAR wasn’t as strict on inspecting the cars after the race. I don’t know.
@@edmondcamp2878 - Interesting. I’ve never heard of that, uh, “exploit.” If figures like DW are to be believed (and they should be), the post-race inspection in the past was pretty limited. It seems to me that they were most interested in things to do with the engine and I can’t imagine back then that they’d be opening up the transmission or rear-end, right? A lot has been made of the “aero” of their ‘85 car and its dimensions, like I’ve heard it was some percentage smaller or narrower, but man - they clearly had some muscle in their engines and weren’t blowing them up like they did in the early 80’s. Where’d you hear about that trick rear-end? I’ve heard of transmissions where “the gears all fall out” and reverts to basically a straight-drive, though how that all works remains elusive to me, but I’d not heard of where it becomes rear independent suspension!
Two of my favorites - 1. DW and his oversized fuel line that held like 3 extra gallons.... 2. in the early days of restrictor plates Harry Gant (I believe it was) used hollow bolts to mount the carb to the intake manifold overcoming the restrictor plate limitation on air intake.
This video is awesome! One thing that STILL goes on today are fuel additives though I'm told The France Cosa Nostra has cracked down on it. I remain skeptical. Defeating the restrictor plate was THE goto area to "bypass" the rules and it's not that difficult once you gain a very basic working knowledge basic fluid flow dynamics.(Think Venturi affect or Bernoulli's Law, i.e. aircraft wing profile) I suspect that engineers at both Ford and Chrysler plus GM frequently helped a few select teams as the sophisticated cylinder heads + intakes + exhaust systems I observed didn't magically appear of a random race shop from a guy with an 8th grade education. It's highly unlikely that cheat intake cheat is still in use today due to the more rigorous inspecting. Hell, all France did was hire a few of the really "creative" mechanics as inspectors and most of the shenanigans were over. Fun times while it lasted.... and you can bet they're still trying even today.
N20 doesn't really "cool the fuel". The gaseous compound contains oxygen and nitrogen; it is an oxidizer often used in rocket fuel. Generally, anything with "ox or O" in its name contains an oxygen molecule. Thus, when heated, the gases separates freeing the oxygen molecule which allows for a hotter gasoline combustion flame === more HP. There were cars with N20 in their fire extinguishers. If you want to talk foolish, Foyt did it at Indy which was like riding around in an armed missile! Nuts.
AH, this was back when NASCAR was great. The rulebook was treated more like guidelines than rules. My favorite was Smokey's 2 inch by 11-foot fuel lines.
...wow, very, very interesting stories! "Who Won??!" is always the Headline & media focus but the Back Stories Re: the ingenuity needed to Get In the Race & then figure someway to actually Win the damn thing...The Back Stories expose the Soul of Racing. Well done guys!
I would think that ya’ll could have injected the nitrous downstream in the intake manifold vacuum hose and have the ultimate effect that would be next to I possible to detect or find …
The best one I remember was the extra air run through the restrictor plate by using the carburetor mounting studs. Rules state ' all intake through the restricter plate ' not. ' the throttle holes ' but still not in the spirit of the rules.
That was Kenny Schrader in the #25 (i think) Extra long carb studs that wouldn’t let the carb seal to the plate. It’s also possible the plate would allow air to pass under the plate at speed. They got away with that for over a year I believe
@@deantait8326 No. The extra air enters from holes drilled horizontally in the base plate of the carb above the restrictor plate, around the carburetor studs, through the restrictor plate, then into the intake manifold. The studs were hourglass shaped and sunk in the manifold an extra half inch past other drilled holes into the manifold throat. Throttle plate mounting holes were oversized, aligned and sealed with a step washer on the nuts. All air was controled by the throttle blades and came through the carburetor and went through the restrictor plate, just not all through the (4) 11/16 holes in the restrictor plate like it was supposed to. 100% by the letter of the rules, just not the intent. Caught at Daytona, first restrictor plate race of the year.
The Hendricks car with Ken Shrader with the huge ‘vacuum’ leak… err air intake under the restrictor plate… dominant at Daytona/ Talledega for 4-5 races? Or #4 at the restrictor plate tracks and I’m still not sure what they did… but now I do 😳😎
Thats an old circle track trick......leave the 2 front carb bolts kinda loose....when the throttle is pushed.."pulling the carb".....giving the front of the carb a little "lift"...air leak.....more air....basic cheatin stuff,lol
Ulrich: can spend 10min describing the dimensions as well as every use for a fork known to mankind. Still can't tell you at the end of it that it's called a fork by name. lol
I love these videos. This stuff goes on in every industry in racing. Whether it’s lighter, bigger, smaller, taller or shorter. Slugger said it best it’s an advantage. The people writing the rules are smart but they are writing them not analyzing them. It’s the same thing if you are working on something and can’t figure it out and beating your head against the wall and someone else walks up and goes “why don’t you do this” or that goes here not there” and it clicks in your head. It’s another set of eyes that hasn’t seen what you are doing. That all this is. If it’s really bad you are getting hammered for it, but if it’s down right amazing and really cool you can’t use it but damn it it’s good
@@baboracus no really thanks for the info. I know this. Ever thought about not trying to correct everyone in everything you do. People have nick names but you probably never got one of those.
@@baboracus if you are under the impression that he’s the only person in NASCAR that cheats you are very misinformed. Every single team and driver has been apart of an illegal car. Even Dale Sr and Jr. Everyone bends the rules in racing. You can name any team you want and they have ran at least one thing illegal on one of their cars, whether getting caught or not. If you want to argue that you don’t know racing or NASCAR. NASCAR driver in the early years were moonshine runners IE criminals so they aren’t going to cheat. This conversation is so frickin stupid I have zero clue why I’m still talking to you. The video was great and good views now I’m talking to someone that is crying because someone is using their nickname so he’s a cheater and I’m goin die on this mountain telling the world the NASCAR is a good,wholesome, church loving, god fearing men and women that never try to gain an advantage by racing in the grey area you are wrong I’m sorry you are wrong plain and simple. Please stop replying to this because I’m super tired of it.
@@tyesalhus5604 A nickname would be Richard "Slugger" Labbe.. A lying/cheating BSer would try to pass his government issued ID as Slugger Labbe. The best thing about NASCAR was the names of those involved (Sterlin Marlin, Booty Barker, Hermie Sadler, Lake Speed) so when a guy tries to pass off a fake name to fit in to the cool names in NASCAR its a dirty trick.
Here's one I don't think many people know of... as we know, all cars other than mini-mobiles have 5 wheel studs per wheel. One NASCAR team deduced they'd save a couple seconds per pit stop if they remachined their axles and wheels to 4 wheel studs. After all the early day Falcons and Valiants and other econo-cars of the early 60s only had 4 wheel studs per axle, so they were just duplicating what the factories were doing, albeit with lighter cars. NASCAR inspectors immediately caught it and told the team to put some 5-stud axles back in to the car, and that was that. Technically they weren't cheating, there was no rule mandating 5-stud axle shafts, and there were no points docked against them, etc, It was more like creative thinking that got out of hand. My other favorite Smokey Yunick story is about his 3" diameter fuel lines from the fuel tank. Technically not a "cheat" because there was nothing in the rule book as to max fuel line diameter, until NASCAR outlawed it. Before he was "counseled at length, he could carry an extra couple of gallons of fuel, saving himself an extra pit stop or three. Then there was when he built what appeared to be an oversized fuel tank, put a deflated basketball into it, partially inflated it, his car naturally got checked for an oversized tank, but he proved it only carried the allocated amount of fuel. Then before the race started, he deflated the basketball, took it out of the tank and put in some extra fuel. This definitely was cheating, but hey, it worked for a while. It's interesting, and this goes back about 15 years or so, but one Las Vegas casino's owner was a NASCAR fan, and he had some retired stock cars on display. One of the stock cars DID have an oversized fuel pipe of about 1 1/2" or thereabouts fuel line running to the carburetor. I forget whose car it was, but there it was.
This is particularly funny, as nascar was born from people bending the rules! Just out of curiosity... Has anyone ever tried refrigerating fuel? They'd do that for distance flights in the old days, As cold gas takes less space than warm. You could increase the fuel capacity, without expanding the tank! Who'd suspect insulated, Refrigerated fuel filler cans. No traces on the car, odorless and colorless !?🤔
We need to get a rid of the officials at NASCAR give NASCAR back to the people in the drivers. And tell the drivers if they smash up more than two cars in a season they're not racing for the rest of the season.
The most ingenious cheat I've ever heard was Toyota's turbo restrictor bypass system in their Celica WRC car. It was virtually undetectable and didn't open up until everything was bolted together, allowing air to flow around the restrictor and increase power. The resulting penalty was the harshest in WRC history I believe. Stripped the drivers of points and banned Toyota from competing for a year.
This is something missing from modern NASCAR as well, in my opinion - the enormous impact that the crews hard on their cars. The way I see it, qualifying was the race between the crews while the actual race was between the drivers and pit teams. Making each car exactly like the others does not improve the sport and debatably improves races.
@@davidmassey4341 - LOL! Well, maybe not “bring back cheating,” but I think the sport was more fun when there was more room inside the rules. I get that figures like Brewer with Junior, Harry Hyde, or Everenham did a great deal to CREATE those rules by bending and breaking so many or by exploiting gray areas, it was that “creativity” and those efforts to “get competitive” (like Jimmy Means says) that made the totality of Winston Cup racing so interesting. While now it’s all about these (often young and boring) drivers driving nearly identical cars with a bunch of helmeted robots in the pits, in the past people tuned in on TV for qualifying! And the stands were half-full too! I mean, if NASCAR wants such an even field with nobody interesting enough to try to break rules because it’ll cost them their heads and their children’s college funds, why not just do iRacing. They’ll bend any rule to wave a yellow for a “restart” with 5 laps to go and invent all this goofy stages and playoffs for whatever reason, even “overtimes” where the leader will run out of gas, but anyone who bends a piece of metal wrong is fined a half-million dollars and any driver who says anything that hurts NASCAR’s feelings is banished. It’s so far from the K&K Insurance Team, Smokey Yunick, the Alabama Gang, Wilkes County, One Tough Customer, the Folgers 25 car, or Cale driving a Hardee’s car. It’s even so far from Gordon hard-racing Rusty, Mark Martin, and Smoke.
I been said that 4 car made Sterling not the other way around, neither Sterling nor Ernie won another points paying restrictor plate race after they left Morgan McLure Racing...
Sterling was a very good restictor plate racer both before and after driving for Morgan McClure.He nearly won the Daytona 500 in 1991 and won a twin 125 qualifying race twice after leaving the 4 car,as well as leading the Daytona 500 late in the race in 2002 before his infamous red flag incident.
@@vinewood8295 Sterling won 4 races after leaving Morgan McClure(All in less than a year if i recall correctly)and Ernie Irvan won more races after leaving the 4 team than he did while driving for them.That being said,Morgan Mclure only had 1 race win by anyone other than Marlin or Irvan although they fielded a full time team for nearly 30 years,so one could argue that Marlin and Irvan did in fact "make" the 4 car because Morgan McClure was an irrelevant team both before and after those 2 drivers....
I just want to be clear that bending the rules is not cheating or creating new rules or doing something not in the book. Now if they say you can't run hemi engines and you run a hemi that's cheating but if it's not in the book then it's not cheating.
I know I’ll catch h3ll here, but. The first time you get caught cheating- 1/4 season suspension. Second time- season suspension. Third time- 3 strikes and you’re out, for life.
At MELLING in Georgia, as a fabricator, we used local, state advanced technology providers. Including aerospace corporations like Gulfstream near Savannah...and Martin Marietta too close in Atlanta. George Elliott's personal connections within the USAF, garnered wind tunnel time, and R & D, using aviation focused materials. Titanium...for basic car and driver safety systems...reducing upper body weight, for improved handling. We did a trunklid, and right away with roof flaps requirements. Got caught. Cost $. WE caused restrictor plates...Ernie's small blocks were stout @ top speed, on long runs. Kenny Schrader's engine program, with whatever engine program they were using, BEFORE plates. With plates, it was all about getting through tech line. HOW is a carb installed on an intake ? Bare intake, gasket, PLATE...4 stud bolts, another gasket, washers, safety wired nuts...all this, AFTER tech inspector visually inspects INSIDE the intake, carb rotated in hand for inspection, and handed back to crew chief. B U T. IF 4 studs are in THRU upper intake treaded holes. IF studs were drilled from bottom, but not through the top, only as far as attaching nuts, which are drilled for safety wire...you have 4 air straws. TIGHT, the added airflow, was at least a qualifying asset. For Schrader it was obvious, and THEY got caught. This was 90 91.
I used to race my Harley stroker in what my local strip called "street gasser." Those of us that raced it called it "street cheater class." It was a pump gas only class. There was a civil aviation airfield on my way. My girlfriend would follow in her car & I would drain my tank into a gas can & fill with 104 octane avgas. But, I'd modified my oil tank & a tiny bottle of nitrous fit there, under the seat, which was a custom step seat. I would rewire the kill switch to make it activate the solenoid the night before. Minky would also bring the portable propane grill & the "spare" propane bottle was nitrous & set up to refill the little bottle. I would only (usually) use it in grudge races, heads up challenges. There was always some betting involved. I would hit the bottle right as I hit 3rd gear & the thing would jump, hard. A 10th or more off my time & 8 to 10 mph more speed. Everybody knew I was doing something. But, it was 3 years before they caught me.
Ward Burton two floor pans to move center of gravity. Won 500 2002. Ran it 2001 but wreched before the end said in interview if he would have still be in race 2001 he would have been in lead and good chance Dale would still be here.
Check out the Tim Brewer episode, the dale jr download with Jimmy Means and the Andy Petree that talks about the throwout bearings in the spring cups. You have to use some imagination but that's luck and genius
THIS shows why NASCAR obsession with parity, making teams share ALL their telemetry etc means we dont have stars! We have 10 guys who are much of a muchness. We st least need fragile, wearing tyres so guys that can drive smooth AND fast get to win more often!
last weeks call of the race for instance. Bumping and pushing and fighting to get on the list of playoffs. I would’ve done the same thing. Shame on you NASCAR.
Left side tires were softer compound because they got less wear on them compared to harder compound on the right side. Softer compound was faster at the expense of prematurely wearing, especially on a hot day. Lots of teams would do this, but not all teams forged the numbers
I had old friend who raced in the dirt tracks here in south east Texas back in the 50’s & 60’s . If wasn’t in the rule book it wasn’t cheating!!!! Maybe bending the rule but not breaking it
The ideas they came up with in the early days are fascinating...To bad its not like that anymore because of corruption and the fixed races....They know who will win before the race starts nowadays and its a damn shame..
I keep reading different places about a team that had mercury in the right frame rail that they pumped to the left rail after the race started in order to gain left side side weight bias. But no one ever says who it was WHO WAS IT ?
Tech notes from your annoying TV friend! The first segment has "hot" audio (overmodulated- too dang loud on the input). 26:37 Man light can't compete with sunlight. If you open up enough to see Jr. he will look like he's in heaven, floating among the over exposed clouds of white. Use sunlight as a side light or even a back light, if you have a white board or similar reflection to bounce the sun onto the talent from the front. I've done enough "Electronic Field Production" (no budget interviews) that I have mental notebook of what works and what doesn't and I like to share and feel like I'm contributing. Hope you agree.
The first thing I'm going to do when I strike it rich with this channel is hire someone with the technical expertise to prevent all the things you've mentioned here ... and more. Until then ... I'm winging it the best I know how. And that's pretty much turning the sound board on, hitting record and hoping for the best.
@@TheSceneVault You've come a long way since your early vids. Chin up! Stay out of direct sunlight and test levels on your mics before you roll. Easy peasy. 😀
@@TheSceneVault ...Ah, Light...a very enlightening subject, to be sure. 1st thing to remember in Filming: "Be aware of what the Light doing at all times & what is your interaction with it?" Adjust & Win!and nobody knew Lighting as well as the Movie Makers of the '30s-'40s.
Every team cheats. The best cheater ever is the one that hasn't or isn't being caught. My attitude is Smokey was the worst. He got caught more than anyone else.
The problem with NASCAR today is they made it impossible for the old school racers to do the things that they used to and have stiffled the creativity of the crew chiefs and the builders. That is why NASCAR is losing viewers. Don't get me wrong i like the dirt track and I get the race within the race of the playoff in the last dozen races. Don't quite cut the mustard. I'd rather see another smokey, fireball and the like in NASCAR the France family needs to get over themselves and remember what made NASCAR a sport and that the characters that did it. Stuff like fights between drivers cheating was what made NASCAR what it is. But they are killing the sport and making it into a formula one style of racing where one or two big teams dominate and the little guys don't stand a chance.
The last thing said in the intro was an oxymoron! Bending the rules is ok. I have a problem when competitors gain such an edge, noone can ever beat them! All good race teams work the "grey area"! My nephew may have a chance to drive in the cars tour race at Wilkesboro. That race is in October, I think. The cars tour series is full of potential Cup series drivers. A lot of the top teams do things that they know are frowned upon in the rule book. They will not be caught. We would have to go through the rules to see where we may gain advantage. We want to finish top ten, if he even has the chance to race. My nephew has amazing talent, but we don't have $500k to run one season. My nephew could earn a ride if he can get his car to the front! He can drive the wheels off of a race car!! He raced last weekend. He qualified in 12th position. We rarely miss the top 3. Anyway, the drove his car to 3rd. The competition was insane that night. Every car in that race had real talent behind the wheel! My nephew was in a rented car for this race. I cannot think of the name of the guy who paid for him to race that car. He earned entry into the Fall Brawl at Hickory Motor Speedway. This will be the 2nd straight race that we don't have to pay for. I know for sure he is gonna practice at Wilkesboro and qualify Jason Smith Racing racecar also. For all who pull for the underdog, Casey Pierce is the driver I have been speaking about. Pray for this underdog to bring home the trophy at Wilkesboro next month!! I still dream of going to Daytona to run a race with my nephew behind the wheel of any of the top 3 series in Nascar!!! It is still a possibility..
NASCAR should have bought Smokey's shop and made it a museum.
Damn straight! Smokey belongs in the HOF!!!
@@ronniewatkins… It never happened (and the HOF nomination will never happen) because Bill France Jr. couldn’t stand Yunick’s “disrespect” towards the sanctioning body, and the ease with which Smokey could get under his and his father’s skin. He’d just as soon walk away like he didn’t need a thing from NASCAR’s brass…and DID when he went IndyCar racing and made great strides in that racing series…
@@twoblacklabs904 france hated smokey because he was smarter than france and wasn't afraid to tell him that!
😅six3⁰iron klopp erkek
@@ryanstuckey8677 Smokey wouldn't be controlled by France is more the truth. EVERYTHING 'Ol Bill did was to lone his pockets... and his descendants have continued that family creed.
I couldn’t hit the like button fast enough. Those ol’ characters is what made NASCAR so fun. I’m just sitting here smiling at those stories. Those guys are my heroes.
Good Ol Boys cheating better than the next guy is racing.
Rich kids driving kit cars ain’t racing or fun
My favorite is the first group. I love listening to a bunch of guys sitting around telling tales. Very enjoyable!
And this is what made NASCAR. Not a field of identical cars with identical races and teams. Skill, ingenuity, creativity, craftsmanship, determination. These "gray areas" are what kept the small hometown teams on the track with the big dogs. Something we will never see again.
That's certainly how it started, too! It began with cars that looked like Grandma's, but Unless Grandma had been drinking moonshine, like the car, They usually weren't capable of going that fast!
These are the best discussions. Really appreciate it..
So good. These racers are still a bit shy to talk about their "performance advantages" but you get them talking. Keep these coming.
My favorite story was Smokey Yunick doing a very simple fix of bigger fuel lines which gave a few extra laps worth fuel. Simple but yet effective.
and it wasnt cheating, no rule at that time that prevented it.
Is that the dude that took the fuel tank out of the car at tech then started it up and drove away😂
Smokey deserve to be inducted into NHOF. Without Smokey Yunick it's not an NHOF for many many fans including me. The day Smokey Yunick will be in the NHOF I will go visit the so call NHOF. My 2 cents.
This is just what you call "practical engineering": Getting what you want out of what you've got.
@@dhill4001 taught daily @ school of hard knocks but u can learn from anything listening twice as much as we speek is why we have 2 ears and only 1 mouth in center of L&R iinfluiences is not always popular choice but always most used lol nobody wants to. Finish last in race on purpose
I read a story by Smokey years ago in circle track magazine about him and someone else putting blades on the clutch and shaping the inside of the bell housing to make a turbine that blew into the air cleaner. I don’t think it made much because of the materials he had to work with at the time. It fascinated me as a kid, the ingenuity those guys had was awesome.
A TURBO ON THE CLUTCH?? 😊😮👅🤭
@@ludicrous7044 technically I think it was more of a centrifugal supercharger, but yes. They put turbine style fins on the pressure plate and shaped the bell housing to make it more efficient. It pulled air from under the car and discharged out of the top of the bell housing into the bottom of the air cleaner. It was in an old circle track racing magazine in the early 90’s if my memory is correct.
@@Paul_D_Lashleyholy shitballs. thank you for that! 😎
i saw somewhere, it was good for 4psi boost. I can't remember what made him stop. Too much drag?
It was a safety feature 😂
Some of my favorite stories involved The Elliott Brothers, Like using the Roll bar as an extra fuel cell, narrowing the car so no one could draft Bill, and I still wanna know how he came from 3 laps down to win that dang race, there had to be some underhanded help somewhere.
Ernie Elliott HP 😂
The Elliott Brothers were so brilliant and excellent gamesmen: Their “creativity” was masked by their “aw shucks” down-home Georgia boy personas. They seemed like genuinely great guys, but they were as interested in winning as everyone else. Them not hiring anyone from NC to guard their secrets is telling. I’d love to know what was going on with that Talladega car too.
@@b.w.22 , We followed Bills career for a long time, used to watch him race at the local track in GA @ Lanier Raceway. He just lived the next county over from us, we were all about the same age. Sadly we did not get to watch him finish his career as we moved away to a place that didn't televise NASCAR, but we cheer Chase on and remember how much he races like his daddy did.
Now I’m not mechanically inclined enough to really know what I’m talking about but I think Smokey Yunick said the Elliotts did have horsepower but they had a trick rear differential where the axle came disconnected to differential on both sides and it handle like an independent suspension and he got through the corners better. I don’t think back then NASCAR wasn’t as strict on inspecting the cars after the race. I don’t know.
@@edmondcamp2878 - Interesting. I’ve never heard of that, uh, “exploit.” If figures like DW are to be believed (and they should be), the post-race inspection in the past was pretty limited. It seems to me that they were most interested in things to do with the engine and I can’t imagine back then that they’d be opening up the transmission or rear-end, right? A lot has been made of the “aero” of their ‘85 car and its dimensions, like I’ve heard it was some percentage smaller or narrower, but man - they clearly had some muscle in their engines and weren’t blowing them up like they did in the early 80’s.
Where’d you hear about that trick rear-end? I’ve heard of transmissions where “the gears all fall out” and reverts to basically a straight-drive, though how that all works remains elusive to me, but I’d not heard of where it becomes rear independent suspension!
I had to take a triple take 12 times … The Guy doing interviewing the show 👀 Looks just like myself LOL … that’s Crazy Stuff !!!
Two of my favorites - 1. DW and his oversized fuel line that held like 3 extra gallons.... 2. in the early days of restrictor plates Harry Gant (I believe it was) used hollow bolts to mount the carb to the intake manifold overcoming the restrictor plate limitation on air intake.
Sounds like Slugger Labbe was more interested in what the rule book DIDN"T say than what it did say. I like that.
This is fantastic! Love these videos!
I wasn't cheating nobody, I was just trying to make the race. Haha
Kings of the track
Back in the good old days...
❤️ Hearing these stories!
Thanks For Uploading Rick And Steve
The rule book was created from engineers without college degrees who were some of the smartest people in the world.
Couldn't care less about who wins or loses, but this is fascinating. Old school NASCAR cheating is just plain fun.
This video is awesome! One thing that STILL goes on today are fuel additives though I'm told The France Cosa Nostra has cracked down on it. I remain skeptical. Defeating the restrictor plate was THE goto area to "bypass" the rules and it's not that difficult once you gain a very basic working knowledge basic fluid flow dynamics.(Think Venturi affect or Bernoulli's Law, i.e. aircraft wing profile) I suspect that engineers at both Ford and Chrysler plus GM frequently helped a few select teams as the sophisticated cylinder heads + intakes + exhaust systems I observed didn't magically appear of a random race shop from a guy with an 8th grade education. It's highly unlikely that cheat intake cheat is still in use today due to the more rigorous inspecting. Hell, all France did was hire a few of the really "creative" mechanics as inspectors and most of the shenanigans were over. Fun times while it lasted.... and you can bet they're still trying even today.
Love it
N20 doesn't really "cool the fuel". The gaseous compound contains oxygen and nitrogen; it is an oxidizer often used in rocket fuel. Generally, anything with "ox or O" in its name contains an oxygen molecule. Thus, when heated, the gases separates freeing the oxygen molecule which allows for a hotter gasoline combustion flame === more HP. There were cars with N20 in their fire extinguishers. If you want to talk foolish, Foyt did it at Indy which was like riding around in an armed missile! Nuts.
AH, this was back when NASCAR was great. The rulebook was treated more like guidelines than rules. My favorite was Smokey's 2 inch by 11-foot fuel lines.
Great stuff. Thank you Scene Vault.
This is the stuff that made NASCAR what it was ..such great days
My favorite is without a doubt Smokey.Half the rulebook is written cuz of him.
He was a genius.... there is a NASCAR section on the Tubi app that has an episode on him and it was awesome
It wasn't cheating. It was merely American Ingenuity at work.😂
...wow, very, very interesting stories! "Who Won??!" is always the Headline & media focus but the Back Stories Re: the ingenuity needed to Get In the Race & then figure someway to actually Win the damn thing...The Back Stories expose the Soul of Racing. Well done guys!
I would think that ya’ll could have injected the nitrous downstream in the intake manifold vacuum hose and have the ultimate effect that would be next to I possible to detect or find …
The best one I remember was the extra air run through the restrictor plate by using the carburetor mounting studs. Rules state ' all intake through the restricter plate ' not. ' the throttle holes ' but still not in the spirit of the rules.
That was Kenny Schrader in the #25 (i think) Extra long carb studs that wouldn’t let the carb seal to the plate. It’s also possible the plate would allow air to pass under the plate at speed. They got away with that for over a year I believe
@@deantait8326
No. The extra air enters from holes drilled horizontally in the base plate of the carb above the restrictor plate, around the carburetor studs, through the restrictor plate, then into the intake manifold. The studs were hourglass shaped and sunk in the manifold an extra half inch past other drilled holes into the manifold throat. Throttle plate mounting holes were oversized, aligned and sealed with a step washer on the nuts.
All air was controled by the throttle blades and came through the carburetor and went through the restrictor plate, just not all through the (4) 11/16 holes in the restrictor plate like it was supposed to. 100% by the letter of the rules, just not the intent. Caught at Daytona, first restrictor plate race of the year.
pretty happy with this one, don't mind the avatar and appreciate the live announcer. Good Job, Watched it all and subbed.
The Hendricks car with Ken Shrader with the huge ‘vacuum’ leak… err air intake under the restrictor plate… dominant at Daytona/ Talledega for 4-5 races? Or #4 at the restrictor plate tracks and I’m still not sure what they did… but now I do 😳😎
Thats an old circle track trick......leave the 2 front carb bolts kinda loose....when the throttle is pushed.."pulling the carb".....giving the front of the carb a little "lift"...air leak.....more air....basic cheatin stuff,lol
Absolutely. The rules are where the advantages are. Like, "Don't do this". Hmm.. why not? So we can't do x, but x(ish) works better anyway.
The best ones still have not been found.
Ulrich: can spend 10min describing the dimensions as well as every use for a fork known to mankind. Still can't tell you at the end of it that it's called a fork by name. lol
Good video. Especially like D.K. Ulrich!
I love these videos. This stuff goes on in every industry in racing. Whether it’s lighter, bigger, smaller, taller or shorter. Slugger said it best it’s an advantage. The people writing the rules are smart but they are writing them not analyzing them. It’s the same thing if you are working on something and can’t figure it out and beating your head against the wall and someone else walks up and goes “why don’t you do this” or that goes here not there” and it clicks in your head. It’s another set of eyes that hasn’t seen what you are doing. That all this is. If it’s really bad you are getting hammered for it, but if it’s down right amazing and really cool you can’t use it but damn it it’s good
Slugger isn't his real name.
@@baboracus no really thanks for the info. I know this. Ever thought about not trying to correct everyone in everything you do. People have nick names but you probably never got one of those.
@@tyesalhus5604 he lied about his name, obviously he's going to cheat.
@@baboracus if you are under the impression that he’s the only person in NASCAR that cheats you are very misinformed. Every single team and driver has been apart of an illegal car. Even Dale Sr and Jr. Everyone bends the rules in racing. You can name any team you want and they have ran at least one thing illegal on one of their cars, whether getting caught or not. If you want to argue that you don’t know racing or NASCAR. NASCAR driver in the early years were moonshine runners IE criminals so they aren’t going to cheat. This conversation is so frickin stupid I have zero clue why I’m still talking to you. The video was great and good views now I’m talking to someone that is crying because someone is using their nickname so he’s a cheater and I’m goin die on this mountain telling the world the NASCAR is a good,wholesome, church loving, god fearing men and women that never try to gain an advantage by racing in the grey area you are wrong I’m sorry you are wrong plain and simple. Please stop replying to this because I’m super tired of it.
@@tyesalhus5604 A nickname would be Richard "Slugger" Labbe.. A lying/cheating BSer would try to pass his government issued ID as Slugger Labbe. The best thing about NASCAR was the names of those involved (Sterlin Marlin, Booty Barker, Hermie Sadler, Lake Speed) so when a guy tries to pass off a fake name to fit in to the cool names in NASCAR its a dirty trick.
Here's one I don't think many people know of... as we know, all cars other than mini-mobiles have 5 wheel studs per wheel. One NASCAR team deduced they'd save a couple seconds per pit stop if they remachined their axles and wheels to 4 wheel studs. After all the early day Falcons and Valiants and other econo-cars of the early 60s only had 4 wheel studs per axle, so they were just duplicating what the factories were doing, albeit with lighter cars. NASCAR inspectors immediately caught it and told the team to put some 5-stud axles back in to the car, and that was that. Technically they weren't cheating, there was no rule mandating 5-stud axle shafts, and there were no points docked against them, etc, It was more like creative thinking that got out of hand.
My other favorite Smokey Yunick story is about his 3" diameter fuel lines from the fuel tank. Technically not a "cheat" because there was nothing in the rule book as to max fuel line diameter, until NASCAR outlawed it. Before he was "counseled at length, he could carry an extra couple of gallons of fuel, saving himself an extra pit stop or three. Then there was when he built what appeared to be an oversized fuel tank, put a deflated basketball into it, partially inflated it, his car naturally got checked for an oversized tank, but he proved it only carried the allocated amount of fuel. Then before the race started, he deflated the basketball, took it out of the tank and put in some extra fuel. This definitely was cheating, but hey, it worked for a while. It's interesting, and this goes back about 15 years or so, but one Las Vegas casino's owner was a NASCAR fan, and he had some retired stock cars on display. One of the stock cars DID have an oversized fuel pipe of about 1 1/2" or thereabouts fuel line running to the carburetor. I forget whose car it was, but there it was.
Anything in the vault of a driver purposefully wrecking an opponent for the win (not a bump-n-run or fighting for same space)? Asking for a friend 😅
Still can't believe Ricky Rudd got a 5-sec penalty for Sonoma 1991
Hi Austin.
Some of the best invovative technologies come from bending the rules. Let them build their own cars again.
If their excuse is the big teams beat up on the little teams in socialism. Put a spending cap on but don’t neuter em in the name of equality
My best scene vault was DK Ulrich - talking tires and his crash, i died twice and lived through it 😂😅
Great Job Rick!
If you aren't looking for an advantage then you aren't doing your job. That is something that will never change your in racing.
*all competition.
A cool can has been banned at many tracks! 2 feet of aluminum fuel line in a cup full of ice,xis worth 3 tenths!
One guy looks like Cale Yarborough and the other looks like Junior Johnson and JD McDuffie
This is particularly funny, as nascar was born from people bending the rules! Just out of curiosity... Has anyone ever tried refrigerating fuel? They'd do that for distance flights in the old days, As cold gas takes less space than warm. You could increase the fuel capacity, without expanding the tank! Who'd suspect insulated, Refrigerated fuel filler cans. No traces on the car, odorless and colorless !?🤔
Read everything Smokey ever had in ink when I was young on building motors , and if you enjoy building old first gen engines that's almost a bible .
We need to get a rid of the officials at NASCAR give NASCAR back to the people in the drivers. And tell the drivers if they smash up more than two cars in a season they're not racing for the rest of the season.
YUP, I feel that getting back towards STOCK cars would solve a LOT.
Like they say, if you ain't cheatin - you ain't tryin! LOL!
The most ingenious cheat I've ever heard was Toyota's turbo restrictor bypass system in their Celica WRC car. It was virtually undetectable and didn't open up until everything was bolted together, allowing air to flow around the restrictor and increase power. The resulting penalty was the harshest in WRC history I believe. Stripped the drivers of points and banned Toyota from competing for a year.
This is something missing from modern NASCAR as well, in my opinion - the enormous impact that the crews hard on their cars. The way I see it, qualifying was the race between the crews while the actual race was between the drivers and pit teams. Making each car exactly like the others does not improve the sport and debatably improves races.
Bring back CHEATIN
@@davidmassey4341 - LOL! Well, maybe not “bring back cheating,” but I think the sport was more fun when there was more room inside the rules. I get that figures like Brewer with Junior, Harry Hyde, or Everenham did a great deal to CREATE those rules by bending and breaking so many or by exploiting gray areas, it was that “creativity” and those efforts to “get competitive” (like Jimmy Means says) that made the totality of Winston Cup racing so interesting. While now it’s all about these (often young and boring) drivers driving nearly identical cars with a bunch of helmeted robots in the pits, in the past people tuned in on TV for qualifying! And the stands were half-full too!
I mean, if NASCAR wants such an even field with nobody interesting enough to try to break rules because it’ll cost them their heads and their children’s college funds, why not just do iRacing. They’ll bend any rule to wave a yellow for a “restart” with 5 laps to go and invent all this goofy stages and playoffs for whatever reason, even “overtimes” where the leader will run out of gas, but anyone who bends a piece of metal wrong is fined a half-million dollars and any driver who says anything that hurts NASCAR’s feelings is banished. It’s so far from the K&K Insurance Team, Smokey Yunick, the Alabama Gang, Wilkes County, One Tough Customer, the Folgers 25 car, or Cale driving a Hardee’s car. It’s even so far from Gordon hard-racing Rusty, Mark Martin, and Smoke.
The Woods Brothers fancy carb 1st comes to mind. The desperation to run nitrous lol
I hope more compilation videos are coming.
But where is animated Steve Waid?
The flash from a camera aimed at the right angle towards the 60ft timer can trigger it as well. I have seen it happen.
The Fix in In Book! Excellent Read,
All sports and racing fixed.
Manipulating the rules to your own advantage.
Haven't we all done that??
Joe Gazaway is my granddaddy and I love hearing all his NASCAR stories! Couldn’t be prouder to have him as my granddaddy and Bill as my Uncle.
Is your grandfather still alive? If so, any chance he might consider coming on the podcast?
@@TheSceneVault He is still alive. I can certainly speak to him and my Aunt about that. I think he would enjoy that.
My email is rick@thescenevaultpodcast.com. Send me a message and I’ll get you all of my main contact information.
@@TheSceneVaultwill do! Thank you!
@@TheSceneVault the email did not work.
pure gold...thanx much...
I been said that 4 car made Sterling not the other way around, neither Sterling nor Ernie won another points paying restrictor plate race after they left Morgan McLure Racing...
Sterling was a very good restictor plate racer both before and after driving for Morgan McClure.He nearly won the Daytona 500 in 1991 and won a twin 125 qualifying race twice after leaving the 4 car,as well as leading the Daytona 500 late in the race in 2002 before his infamous red flag incident.
@@davidh6818 He was good yes BUT like I said, he was never able to get to victorylane in a points paying Cup race other than his time in the #4 car...
@@vinewood8295 Sterling won 4
races after leaving Morgan McClure(All in less than a year if i recall correctly)and Ernie Irvan won more races after leaving the 4 team than he did while driving for them.That being said,Morgan Mclure only had 1 race win by anyone other than Marlin or Irvan although they fielded a full time team for nearly 30 years,so one could argue that Marlin and Irvan did in fact "make" the 4 car because Morgan McClure was an irrelevant team both before and after those 2 drivers....
I just want to be clear that bending the rules is not cheating or creating new rules or doing something not in the book. Now if they say you can't run hemi engines and you run a hemi that's cheating but if it's not in the book then it's not cheating.
And that is why nascar was better before they went to the gen 7 woke equality car.
Nitros does a lot more than just "cool the fuel" 🤣
I know I’ll catch h3ll here, but.
The first time you get caught cheating- 1/4 season suspension. Second time- season suspension. Third time- 3 strikes and you’re out, for life.
It ain't cheating if you can get around the rule book without breaking the rules.
At MELLING in Georgia, as a fabricator, we used local, state advanced technology providers. Including aerospace corporations like Gulfstream near Savannah...and Martin Marietta too close in Atlanta. George Elliott's personal connections within the USAF, garnered wind tunnel time, and R & D, using aviation focused materials. Titanium...for basic car and driver safety systems...reducing upper body weight, for improved handling. We did a trunklid, and right away with roof flaps requirements. Got caught. Cost $. WE caused restrictor plates...Ernie's small blocks were stout @ top speed, on long runs.
Kenny Schrader's engine program, with whatever engine program they were using, BEFORE plates. With plates, it was all about getting through tech line. HOW is a carb installed on an intake ? Bare intake, gasket, PLATE...4 stud bolts, another gasket, washers, safety wired nuts...all this, AFTER tech inspector visually inspects INSIDE the intake, carb rotated in hand for inspection, and handed back to crew chief. B U T.
IF 4 studs are in THRU upper intake treaded holes.
IF studs were drilled from bottom, but not through the top, only as far as attaching nuts, which are drilled for safety wire...you have 4 air straws. TIGHT, the added airflow, was at least a qualifying asset. For Schrader it was obvious, and THEY got caught. This was 90 91.
I used to race my Harley stroker in what my local strip called "street gasser." Those of us that raced it called it "street cheater class."
It was a pump gas only class. There was a civil aviation airfield on my way. My girlfriend would follow in her car & I would drain my tank into a gas can & fill with 104 octane avgas.
But, I'd modified my oil tank & a tiny bottle of nitrous fit there, under the seat, which was a custom step seat. I would rewire the kill switch to make it activate the solenoid the night before.
Minky would also bring the portable propane grill & the "spare" propane bottle was nitrous & set up to refill the little bottle.
I would only (usually) use it in grudge races, heads up challenges. There was always some betting involved. I would hit the bottle right as I hit 3rd gear & the thing would jump, hard. A 10th or more off my time & 8 to 10 mph more speed.
Everybody knew I was doing something. But, it was 3 years before they caught me.
Excellent!!!!!!
Okay , you got my like and sub. 👍🏼
Dang, them were the good old days pf NASCAR. Manufacturer involvement, ingenuity, cheating, good times
It’s not cheating if it’s not in the rule book.
Great stuff
Yes sir you got me listening
The nitrous talk doesn't add up nitrous carries xtra oxygen its the xtra fuel you add that makes the power , nitrous on its will lean out the engine
With extra air it pulled extra fuel. The rpms did that. And they only needed a small amount of horse power. For a short time.
Ward Burton two floor pans to move center of gravity. Won 500 2002. Ran it 2001 but wreched before the end said in interview if he would have still be in race 2001 he would have been in lead and good chance Dale would still be here.
Check out the Tim Brewer episode, the dale jr download with Jimmy Means and the Andy Petree that talks about the throwout bearings in the spring cups. You have to use some imagination but that's luck and genius
This was more fun for you than for us.
It wasn't Smokey's fault that he was way, way, smarter than the rule-makers.
And they didn't like it!!😡
Gotta get better mics, that first clip the audio was cracking
THIS shows why NASCAR obsession with parity, making teams share ALL their telemetry etc means we dont have stars! We have 10 guys who are much of a muchness. We st least need fragile, wearing tyres so guys that can drive smooth AND fast get to win more often!
Some of this does not make sense. Nitrous and fuel have to injected together. You just inject nitrous by itself. Good stories though.
They already had the carburetor jetted fat for qualifying with a small shot of nitrous.
Some of the greatest men alive Testerone was not a problem back then.
Nitrous just adds oxygen. It's a non flammable liquid that when heated it splits the nitrogen & oxygen molecules.
The ones I feel the worst for are the ones that cheated like hell, got away with it and never broke the top 10.
last weeks call of the race for instance. Bumping and pushing and fighting to get on the list of playoffs. I would’ve done the same thing. Shame on you NASCAR.
Help me understand the tire swapping and how it helped him?
Left side tires were softer compound because they got less wear on them compared to harder compound on the right side.
Softer compound was faster at the expense of prematurely wearing, especially on a hot day.
Lots of teams would do this, but not all teams forged the numbers
@@paulmryglod4802 Thank You for the explanation.
This is what made nascar fun!..
This is unbelievably believable
When I raced the rule book was not what you couldn't do but what I could do. If it wasn't a rule and gave a advantage I did it.
I had old friend who raced in the dirt tracks here in south east Texas back in the 50’s & 60’s . If wasn’t in the rule book it wasn’t cheating!!!!
Maybe bending the rule but not breaking it
The ideas they came up with in the early days are fascinating...To bad its not like that anymore because of corruption and the fixed races....They know who will win before the race starts nowadays and its a damn shame..
MY FAVORITE CHEAT IS WALTRIPS WAX FILLED INTAKE BOLTS.
Woah tell me about how they worked
This is how every Nascar fan sounds like lol
I keep reading different places about a team that had mercury in the right frame rail that they pumped to the left rail after the race started in order to gain left side side weight bias. But no one ever says who it was
WHO WAS IT ?
Tech notes from your annoying TV friend! The first segment has "hot" audio (overmodulated- too dang loud on the input). 26:37 Man light can't compete with sunlight. If you open up enough to see Jr. he will look like he's in heaven, floating among the over exposed clouds of white.
Use sunlight as a side light or even a back light, if you have a white board or similar reflection to bounce the sun onto the talent from the front. I've done enough "Electronic Field Production" (no budget interviews) that I have mental notebook of what works and what doesn't and I like to share and feel like I'm contributing. Hope you agree.
The first thing I'm going to do when I strike it rich with this channel is hire someone with the technical expertise to prevent all the things you've mentioned here ... and more.
Until then ... I'm winging it the best I know how. And that's pretty much turning the sound board on, hitting record and hoping for the best.
@@TheSceneVault You've come a long way since your early vids. Chin up! Stay out of direct sunlight and test levels on your mics before you roll. Easy peasy. 😀
@@TheSceneVault ...Ah, Light...a very enlightening subject, to be sure. 1st thing to remember in Filming: "Be aware of what the Light doing at all times & what is your interaction with it?" Adjust & Win!and nobody knew Lighting as well as the Movie Makers of the '30s-'40s.
Don’t do animation anymore rather see u
Every team cheats. The best cheater ever is the one that hasn't or isn't being caught. My attitude is Smokey was the worst. He got caught more than anyone else.
He enjoyed the game!! 😋
Hey, hey... Look, yes .. sometimes winning looks like cheating...
If you get caught....
If you didn't....
That's just Winning ..
The problem with NASCAR today is they made it impossible for the old school racers to do the things that they used to and have stiffled the creativity of the crew chiefs and the builders. That is why NASCAR is losing viewers. Don't get me wrong i like the dirt track and I get the race within the race of the playoff in the last dozen races. Don't quite cut the mustard. I'd rather see another smokey, fireball and the like in NASCAR the France family needs to get over themselves and remember what made NASCAR a sport and that the characters that did it. Stuff like fights between drivers cheating was what made NASCAR what it is. But they are killing the sport and making it into a formula one style of racing where one or two big teams dominate and the little guys don't stand a chance.
I really miss real nascar racing.
I was at Dayton 74 75.
The last thing said in the intro was an oxymoron! Bending the rules is ok. I have a problem when competitors gain such an edge, noone can ever beat them! All good race teams work the "grey area"! My nephew may have a chance to drive in the cars tour race at Wilkesboro. That race is in October, I think. The cars tour series is full of potential Cup series drivers. A lot of the top teams do things that they know are frowned upon in the rule book. They will not be caught. We would have to go through the rules to see where we may gain advantage. We want to finish top ten, if he even has the chance to race. My nephew has amazing talent, but we don't have $500k to run one season. My nephew could earn a ride if he can get his car to the front! He can drive the wheels off of a race car!! He raced last weekend. He qualified in 12th position. We rarely miss the top 3. Anyway, the drove his car to 3rd. The competition was insane that night. Every car in that race had real talent behind the wheel! My nephew was in a rented car for this race. I cannot think of the name of the guy who paid for him to race that car. He earned entry into the Fall Brawl at Hickory Motor Speedway. This will be the 2nd straight race that we don't have to pay for. I know for sure he is gonna practice at Wilkesboro and qualify Jason Smith Racing racecar also. For all who pull for the underdog, Casey Pierce is the driver I have been speaking about. Pray for this underdog to bring home the trophy at Wilkesboro next month!! I still dream of going to Daytona to run a race with my nephew behind the wheel of any of the top 3 series in Nascar!!! It is still a possibility..