Excellent conversation. I appreciate what this attorney has done to help this beleaguered church which has been treated so wrongly by the UMC establishment.
One thing I have yet to hear ANY lawyer other than the Knoxville attorney mention is the fact that the UMC does not even exist as a legal entity. The Discipline in effect is a corporate charter for a nonexistent entity. Never mind the corporate charter itself is illegal, being a nonentity they don't even have the right to a charter or conferences as representatives. The Disipline is illegal and continually contradicts itself. The non-entity UMC does not have the authority to over ride state and federal real estate laws. Wesleyans in general, choose the easiest most peaceful path. The UMC has used that against everyone.
I watched the Oklahoma Supreme Court case live. It was poorly argued. They neglected to point out that the conference never treated it as an ecclesiastical issue, which would have been a straight forward exercise of power. Instead, they denied the vote based on contract technicality, which they manipulated
Jeff, Holston Conference cut the Disaffiliation process off at April 1, 2023 effectively denying churches the full process to disaffiliate by December 31.
paulgriffith1021 In Holston Conference, Debra Wallace Padgett strongly encouraged you not to rush. Wait until after General Conference. If you don’t like the decisions made there, she promised a way out. Just wait. She then said..so sorry. The Judicial Council ruled we can no longer let anyone “disassociate” by any means. For months she called the new way out disassociation instead of disaffiliation. Neither can happen. Trust and obey.
I think this attorney was referring to the "Children's Home" (aka Residing Hope), although he said "Methodist Orphanage." These children are often from dysfunctional homes where law enforcement removes them and places them in the Children's Home either temporarily or until they are no longer children.
Would it be a good idea for congregations stuck in the umc to file their own 501c's to recieve their tithes and offerings and use the money to help the poor, fund missions and save up to buy their properties when they eventually get closed and put up for sale?
I think conferences can charge them with fraud in those cases. I know that, in the cases of churches like First Jonesboro, the court was able to order the bank to give those separately-collected funds to the conference.
Tar Heel Traveler did this great historical piece on 5th Avenue UMC which pre-dates the current controversy. th-cam.com/video/CiwoarozQtg/w-d-xo.htmlsi=DFcgndVLVntTb_ow
Excellent interview, thank you! Also thank you to Mr. Parsons and Ward and Smith
Excellent conversation. I appreciate what this attorney has done to help this beleaguered church which has been treated so wrongly by the UMC establishment.
Keep up the good work.
This was extraordinarily useful
I learned something, thank you.
One thing I have yet to hear ANY lawyer other than the Knoxville attorney mention is the fact that the UMC does not even exist as a legal entity. The Discipline in effect is a corporate charter for a nonexistent entity. Never mind the corporate charter itself is illegal, being a nonentity they don't even have the right to a charter or conferences as representatives.
The Disipline is illegal and continually contradicts itself. The non-entity UMC does not have the authority to over ride state and federal real estate laws.
Wesleyans in general, choose the easiest most peaceful path. The UMC has used that against everyone.
I watched the Oklahoma Supreme Court case live. It was poorly argued. They neglected to point out that the conference never treated it as an ecclesiastical issue, which would have been a straight forward exercise of power. Instead, they denied the vote based on contract technicality, which they manipulated
Jeff, Holston Conference cut the Disaffiliation process off at April 1, 2023 effectively denying churches the full process to disaffiliate by December 31.
paulgriffith1021 In Holston Conference, Debra Wallace Padgett strongly encouraged you not to rush. Wait until after General Conference. If you don’t like the decisions made there, she promised a way out. Just wait. She then said..so sorry. The Judicial Council ruled we can no longer let anyone “disassociate” by any means. For months she called the new way out disassociation instead of disaffiliation. Neither can happen. Trust and obey.
I think this attorney was referring to the "Children's Home" (aka Residing Hope), although he said "Methodist Orphanage." These children are often from dysfunctional homes where law enforcement removes them and places them in the Children's Home either temporarily or until they are no longer children.
Can a congregation file a lien against the property for improvements they invested in the property.
If that has been tried, I haven't seen it. I hope Gavin considers answering this question if he looks through the comments.
Would it be a good idea for congregations stuck in the umc to file their own 501c's to recieve their tithes and offerings and use the money to help the poor, fund missions and save up to buy their properties when they eventually get closed and put up for sale?
I think conferences can charge them with fraud in those cases. I know that, in the cases of churches like First Jonesboro, the court was able to order the bank to give those separately-collected funds to the conference.
Dirty tricks as usual.
I just called willow creek Community church my new church home
Tar Heel Traveler did this great historical piece on 5th Avenue UMC which pre-dates the current controversy. th-cam.com/video/CiwoarozQtg/w-d-xo.htmlsi=DFcgndVLVntTb_ow