I grew up watching jets and huge planes flying around as a kid. We also had the craziest air shows every year. I loved growing up in North Bay from the mid 70's to early 2000's great place
Captain Newman, what a fantastic story and tribute to the many men and women who worked "underground". My father worked in "the hole" for many years in the "blue room" as he would call it during and after the Cold War. He just passed about 5 years ago and would have loved this story. My dad was a proud member of the Air Force and arranged for class members from then St. Josephs Girls College to take the official tour. Seeing this video brings back memories as we actually lived on the base as well. The decommission really did take a toll on this beautiful city from which it never did recover. So sad. Was visiting relatives this past summer having left 26 years ago. Still a beautiful city though. Thanks for the memories.
Fantastic! Not only a humorous and informative story but an honest, beautiful and fascinating take on a unknown bit of Canadiana. The visuals are incredibly smart and succinct and the stark images give way to a truly absorbing narrative. Brilliant and well done!
I wonder if they go in every few months.. crazy to think there’s this huge installation underground , probably still lit up & everything .. but no one is allowed in
I went down there in 1985 with the air cadets in Newmarket. I'm happy I found this video, so I could show my now grown children, one of our Canadian historical sites, that can't be witnessed as I was able to. Thank you.
I think it was great. Posted to North Bay as military police. Protected the “North and South” accesses 24hrs. Went down there maybe 5 times. I had a 5 year posting. Lots of fun. Guess no one told them about the third entrance.
I had the privilege of visiting the complex twice in 1979 and 1983 with the Air Cadets. We saw the radar room, the computer room and I believe the "room with the big map" . There was actually an unknown aircraft that appeared on the screens while I was there. It turned out to be a Yugoslavian airliner. On the 1983 tour they were replacing the computers and the diesel generators. At that time the complex seemed much less sinister. We couldn't take pictures, do now it feels like a dream nobody would believe.
There may be nothing going on But I was guided Bigtime To go for a drive the other day and Anchor energies Everywhere And Wow It’s nice to finally hear what I knew whiteout knowing 4 years of transmuting energies and Anchoring Light here It’s real nice to have validation of some truths
While in U.S. Air Force, I was stationed there, and worked in the Hole from 1979 to 1983. I was stationed there just prior to, during and after the transition from the old SAGE system to the ROCC system. During that transition, a bunch of us went to St Margarets NB, continued our duties their until the new system came online.
I was at BUIC for the close out, While the ROCC was coming online. I spent the summer in St Maggies on call as SDT while North Bay took over, great summer, golfed a lot. We must have crossed paths,
@@dunk22 We had to cross paths at St Maggies. In fact, the name Jimbo is very familiar to me. I sat at the Identification console. I got tagged to go there because of my past BUIC experience. Originally trained in the BUIC system 1970 at Charleston Air Force Station in Maine, I would find myself years later on two occasions working BUIC, long after they shut the system down in the States. The other occasion besides St Margarets, was when gathered a bunch of us to go to Fort Fisher Air Force Station. For several weeks they would send us down there for a couple days at a time.
To close the end of an era, when this thing was decommissioned, we had a golf ball race. Where anyone who bought a ball, could win a prize (some of the money collected from the golf ball sales, the rest went to charity) for being the first ball to the end of the tunnel. All were dropped at once (to be fair) and away they went. It was a pretty cool way to say goodbye to a really cool part of History. It was indeed one of the most important and secret military bases in North America, one of only two underground radar in North America. One in Colorado Springs and one in North Bay. Myself and many others, from growing up here our whole lives and having relatives in the military here, knew the significance of it and that yes, we were a prime target in the event of war. The guy with the bunker, was on the right track, but clearly, doesn't know the History and depth of the significance of this place and all the cool details. What are you going to take out, strategically if you want to be successful against your enemy? The ability to detect you and that's what NORAD is. Lots of other interesting secret projects have happened here over the years and that base "was" very active not only for Canadians, but MANY American military personnel have been there and secret aircraft (the Stealth Bomber has been here a few times, for example) and other military tech over the years. Seen lots of tanks on trains etc. Even some people who live here, have no idea the significance of what they did here, because it wasn't made obvious sometimes. Now, it is a retirement community, they are right. Only military personnel in their last days of there career are sent here. It's not a terribly active base anymore. Lots of it is inhabited by private companies, like Bombardier, building water bombers and they are trying to attract more industries/manufacturing to this old but still very useful/functional airbase and we could use the industry/jobs, because we don't have any real industry to speak of. It's a tourist stopover (the Gateway) to the North. Most jobs here are hospitality industry related or Government. I believe a meat processing/packaging operation is the latest one to open up here (and I think it's at the airbase) and that's great for jobs. We get a LOT of that (tourism is what we survive on and it's a BEAUTIFUL tourist destination like no other). Our sunsets are legendary (a mix of a rainbow of colours) and the outdoors here, is amazing. We have many motels/hotels and restaurants to the effect (too many really) and we get people from all over the world here. American Snowmobilers in the winter and Germans, Asians, Islanders from South of the States etc. and people from every corner of the planet, in the summer. It's a picturesque place really. Tourists are forever saying "What a beautiful place" and it is. Not a place to open a small business (3rd worst place in Canada to do it) unless you in a niche, in demand market and small businesses frequently fail, but if you want an outdoors vacation like no other, this is it. Lots of filming happens here now, because we have it all in terms of visuals. Thank's to Jerry O'Connell and his show Carter, for putting us on the Hollywood map. He loves it here, he sang the praises of the place to the film industry and now we are a hot spot for filming and there is "some" kind industry going on here now, just not manufacturing like we had hoped for and wanted (Sudbury always gets it).
@@dfathers Don't have an exact time (I was away when the golf ball drop took place); however the North Tunnel is about two kilometres long, but has a 10 percent grade (steep hill) down a hard, paved road between rock walls. When the golf balls got bouncing and moving, they MOVED. Easily less than a minute!
@@brianrichard8310 True but so is Cheyenne Mountain and there are documentaries about its construction and occupants both past & present. Post-apocalyptic sci-fi film “The Colony" was also partly filmed at NB and at least one mom got a guided tour by her son that can be watched on YT. But.. that was 2013 so this poses an interesting question. Was this short film merely lazy journalism or a subtle way of saying something has changed inside?
My grandfather worked down there in the 60's and 70's. Was never aloud to say what he did down there only that he did it in there. In the late 70's when my dad was in his early 70s they moved to Kingston where he worked at both the base in Kingston and in nearby cfb Trenton where he retired in the 80s
I live in North Bay, Ontario. I'm about 6 minutes away from the base (Thats what we call it.) I've seen it from the outside, but I've never seen it from inside. Now that it's closed down the front of it literally looks like an apocalypse shelter. What the guy also said about military presence is pretty true, we do see a lot of aircraft like jets and such here.
Canadian Forces Base North Bay still exists, although in much reduced form. That's why you see so much military activity. There is also an above-ground air traffic monitoring facility that monitors civilian and military air traffic and it probably has some ability to detect and track incoming missiles too, although I understand that satellites now do the bulk of the detection work.
And today I would like to welcome the fellow Canadians that are probably scrolling through there recommended and are seeing this after the False Nuclear incident this morning, even if you weren't in Ontario, have a good day eh!
When North Bay had the Heritage Festival in the 1990s - early 2000s, they used to operate tours of the underground complex. I believe the last time I was down there for one of the tours was in 2006. Riding the bus down the tunnel with the lights passing by on each side reminded me of being in a subway. Once you were past the huge door seen at 7:13 the feel was like being inside an office building from the 1960s / 1970s , minus windows.
I grew up in North Bay and everyone called it the Sage. My best friend growing up has his Mom and Step dad both working there. Cool old place. Not sure why they didn't talk about the military runway and a huge base plus military housing that was all on top of the mountain called the SAGE. And the road to get up there was called airport rd. Huge complex
Looks abandoned but still powered up. Didn't even look like 1 light was burnt out. If there isn't anything going on down there, it probably wouldn't take much to get something happening down there.
I grew up knowing, after the "Moccasin Raid" that I had 23 seconds to live once Russian missiles crossed the DEW line. we were the first target. We all knew the base was armed. When I taught Canadian History, 1837 to the Present, (1982), I read in our textbook that there have never been nuclear arms in Canada. I was shocked, and so I thaught the class about North Bay, and the base in Lamacassé, (sp), Quebec. Of course, they never believed me.
There were nukes here in the 60's. I thought everyone knew that? We had one of those missiles mounted on a concrete pedestal by Judge and Lakeshore, and a CF 100 on the other side of the road, if you recall. We all grew up here under the nuclear threat. We all knew it too, when we were in grade 7 and 8. I often wonder what effect that had on some people. Growing up knowing you could be vaporized at anytime if the Russians and the US went at er....Maybe that was why a lot of us were pretty wild in our younger years. When Reagan was President, and the wall fell, Glasnost happened, the threat was really diminished for a time afterwards. We lived dangerously around here for sure. Colorado Springs and this little City were the number 1 target for Russian Missiles. Take out our eyes 1st.
Canada did possess a limited number of nuclear weapons in the late 1950s and early 1960s. The Bomarc missiles stationed at RCAF La Macaza were nuclear-tipped but under American control. Canada's fleet of CF101 Voodoo fighters also carried Genie nuclear-tipped missiles that were designed to take out groups of Russian bombers entering Canadian airspace. And the CF101 Starfighter jets we had in Germany could carry nuclear bombs for tactical strikes, although these too, were under US control and would likely only have been used if the Americans and NATO authorized their use in time of war. After Pierre Trudeau was elected, Canada ceased maintaining any inventories of nuclear weapons.
I've been down there about 10 years ago, there was NOTHING, just an empty building. It was still creepy. There was a giant door to the entrance of the building, kind of like a bank vault door.
Been there twice so fascinating right here in my hometown. Dave palangio is a walking encyclopedia of knowledge. So proud of our contribution to protecting north America .ps these radar techs spotted the planes off course on 9/11and reported it to norad command
I've been in this complex and watched the screen that monitored air defense before they decided to build another complex above ground ...the bus just sped through that tunnel with little space on either side I also hiked up to the top of the hill and saw all the old concrete rain reservoirs
the bunker looks like a great place to spend the GRAND SOLAR MINIMUM, which we are in right now, an ice age.. move underground, bring grow lights, grow a garden, stay warm
@paul laprise I was born in Kingston, was adopted with my two siblings, moved here in '02 or '03 we have our adoptive dad's last name and its more common in England of all places. "Maker of things" is what it translates into :)
I find it hard to believe that someone hasn't bought that complex and turned it into multiple luxury bomb shelters if the military are in fact no longer using it. It happens all the time and they normally sell for upwards of 2 million dollars.
SUPER COOL! I've actually had the honour and privilege to go down into the "hole" and let me tell you it was extraordinary, one of my most memorable experiences. It was back in the 90's, myself and a few others got to adventure through the complex, i remember the bus ride down there thinking we were gonna crash! the driver drove so fast! and there was maybe what felt like inches on either side of the bus! it was awesome.
I'm the Captain Doug Newman in the video. For a few years I was the official Underground Complex tour guide. From senior citizens to kids, both Canadian and international visitors, the groups I guided unanimously remarked that the bus trip was one of the coolest rides in Canada. The speed was a trick on the senses. The bus only did 40 kilometres per hour, but because it was so close to the tunnel walls it seemed to be moving like a bullet down a gun barrel.
Might make for a interesting concept for a Fallout game based in Canada... Instead of radioactive wasteland with mutants and populations, it could be on basic survival and exploration given that it's a wilderness in the cold north.
At 19:50 the young man says "they must use it for something, why would they let that much engeneering go to waste? One word: government The best money wasters in the world.
The Underground complex is decommissioned. It is un used as it's FULL of asbestos. There will be no forseable use for it. I worked in there as a teenager years ago. It was an amazing place to be. I joined the RCAF because I worked in there during 9/11. I became a ATIS tech that serviced and repaired all the equip used in there.
I live in North Bay and never had the chance to go down into the hole. I do however get to deliver inside the new above ground D.L.P building. From what i hear, the hole was no longer able to withstand the blasts from nuclear weapons now. It's also constantly filling with water that has to be pumped out. There was talk about turning it into storage for government documents ect. But i heard they decided against that. Not sure it would be worth it to do anything there now. Still be cool to see inside!
@@user-jh2pp5xh9h it's at the end of ski club overlooking trout Lake. Or at least that's where my grandma would go in, park, or something along those lines.
Thanks. Would have replied to you sooner, but since the video has been out for over a year, I don't check the comments as often as I used to. Cheers and best wishes.
@@shirleybaker3599 it's on the base, up by the airport, just past the airport turn off, the next right should get you there. That's the North Entrance, the other entrance in the south is near trot lake.
My best friend's dad was killed in the construction of this thing. My family moved out of town in 63 and none to soon because we did not to live at a potential ground zero.
Hello. I'm the Captain Newman in the video, retired from the air force, but still doing the Wing Heritage Officer's job for the air force base. Can you elaborate on what happened, and when it happened? Neither my office's files nor our museum's archives have a report of a death. Not saying that it didn't happen, just that we haven't heard of this. Cheers. Doug Newman, Wing Heritage Officer, 22 Wing/Canadian Forces Base North Bay
Hello. I'm the Captain Newman in the video. There are a lot of excellent paved and gravel back roads in the area to ride as well, cutting through the thick of the forest, with hills to work the legs, and very little traffic to contend with. I try to do at least one hour-long and one two-hour-long ride each week (work, weather and other factors permitting).
Raymond Newman that’s good that you try to get out there once in a while it’s good for the body I try to go when I can it’s a steep climb, I start usually at the little hydro thing all fenced in just before the NORAD Entrance, I learned last time that there’s no point in the trails if you don’t have good brakes on you’re bike hahaha.
You guys (term gender-neutral) were great! You never got the thanks or respect you deserved. When I started giving tours, in the late 1990s and early 2000s, the drivers always took excellent care of our groups. In fact you drivers were the reason why our tours unanimously declared the bus trips into the Underground Complex as the coolest rides in Canada. So, long overdue and properly in caps: THANK YOU! Doug Newman, Wing Heritage Officer, 22 Wing/Canadian Forces Base North Bay.
I went down in the Hole when i was about 12 years old. A relative was a higher ranking member of the Air Force and we went down on a tour on a small bus. It was pretty cool from what I can remember, but it was a lot of "We can't go in there, We can't access that. Here's a lunchroom, that's a washroom, That room is restricted." The best part was the drive down the tunnel - It was like something out of a movie.
Response was not the correct word, perhaps. I wrote an explanation at the start of this comment chain to various points brought up in the chain, including yours. That is, specific to you, regarding your restriction from accessing parts of the complex, like the Operations Room and Command Post, a NORAD air defence operation might have been under way. In which case, the Operations Room and Command Post, the most interesting part of a tour, would have been temporarily out of bounds to visitors. This happened to me a couple of times when I was leading tours in the Underground Complex, including to a group of senior citizens from the Netherlands who were our guests in thanks for taking care of Canadian war veterans in their country. We got to the Operations Room door when an operation was announced; so we were unable to enter the Ops Room or Command Post. That they were our guests was irrelevant. Your age wasn't a factor, either, in limitation of access. I've led numerous school tours in the UGC, including into the Ops and Command Post.
Raymond Newman Ok gotcha now. I spent my whole life living next to an army base so I know what its like ti be kicked out of an area for an operation haha. Aside from that, the tour was still a really cool experience for me and I will always remember it. Thank you for the clarification!
No one uses the Underground Complex anymore. Not the Americans and not the Canadians. The Department of National Defence was unable to find anyone to take it over, due to its age, cost to operate, and security issues (22 Wing/Canadian Forces Base North Bay is still a NORAD base.)
It is hard to imagine the Canadian government decommissioning this underground facility as it probably cost hundreds of millions of dollars (perhaps, even a few billion)to build in its initial construction days. My father worked in this underground "Sage Site" (the proper name for (Semi-Automatic Ground Environment) located by Trout Lake which was linked via the intranet to Cheyenne Mountain in Colorado, USA. My dad used to talk about it all the time and our family used to go up to the RCAF airbase situated 10 miles away to the east to see the planes, jets and the plexiglass model of the underground control facility. SAGE was a part of the NORAD Cold War computer network. The 4-story underground SAGE with 3.5 acres of floor space were hardened for overpressures of" 5 psi (34 kPa). A shorter adjoining building in the facility had generators below the 4 intake/exhaust structures on the roof. The whole complex was built on four giant springs which would help dampen the shockwaves of a potential nuclear detonation nearby with a three-foot thick steel door sealed off the complex to any outsiders. 2500 RCAF servicemen and their families could be housed in this facility in the event of an all-out nuclear war! One floor was devoted to the most powerful computers of their time, the AN/FSQ-7 Combat Direction Central, (aka. Q7) which was a computerized command and control system for Cold War ground-controlled interception, however, in this day and age, everyone has more power and versatility in their pocket cell phones than these computers. The Bomarc nuclear-tipped missiles situated 10 miles north of the underground complex could be fired from the North Bay SAGE SITE command centre or/either from Cheyenne Mountain. These weapons were housed in what appeared to be one story homes where the roofs would open to allow the missiles to be fired and the whole missile complex was surrounded with10 foot high barbed wire. The real question is was this underground complex really decommissioned or was it updated upgraded with an even deeper, more advanced complex that would be keeping with current technology? Given the extensive tunnel system that already exists linking the city, the airbase and no doubt the missile base to this command centre and with the current, highly secretive amount of tunnel boring going on across and throughout North America, it is suspicious that the excuse for decommissioning the SAGE site was due to heavy asbestos usage and loose falling rock! These reasons to close down this complex makes no sense given the amount of money thrown toward the development and building this complex was expensive, asbestos removable is now easier and cheaper than before and loose rock can be prevented from falling by encasing it in cement re-enforcement! The world today is no safer than it was back in the early fifties and such facilities would still serve a vital role today in Canada's military!
Hello, Mr. Tibando. I'm the Captain Newman in the documentary. Respectfully, a few corrections to your comments. (I have to wonder where you got your information.) The Underground Complex (known by many names over the decades including SAGE) cost $51 million to build, not hundreds of millions of dollars. The U.S. paid two-thirds the cost, Canada funded the rest. Also the Underground Complex, the isn't four storeys. It comprises two principal pieces, the 3-storey Main Installation (inside a 5-storey-tall cavern), which used to house the NORAD operations room, the command post, computer rooms, medical facility, cafeteria, etc., and the 3-storey Power Cavern, which holds all of the machinery that provides life support for the facility, such as diesel-electric generators, water pumps, etc. Furthermore, our Main Installation is not built on springs--a common mistaken belief--but on steel pillars specially designed and engineered to dissipate the the seismic shock wave of an earthquake or nuclear blasts. On New Years Eve North Bay received an earthquake 5.2 on the Richter Scale, a medium-size Japan or Indonesia level earthquake; the military personnel in the Main Installation didn't feel a thing. And there are many more than four pillars, in order to hold aloft what is essentially a three-storey office building--you can actually walk underneath it. Next, there isn't a three-foot thick steel door; instead there are three 19-ton steel bank-vault type blast doors, each one situated at one of the subterranean entrances into the Underground Complex. Despite their weight, equal to a medium-size bulldozer, each is so well-balanced it can be moved by a 12-year-old girl--I used to do this when giving school tours. Next, the Underground Complex would NOT house "2,500 RCAF servicemen and their families". First, at its peak of operations, the Underground Complex had a work force of 750 American and Canadian people, civilians as well as military, who worked shifts as well as day work. Second, no family members would be allowed in the Complex in the event of war. For one thing there was no room for them. For another the Complex did not have enough food, air or water to accommodate them. And thirdly, the Complex was a war-fighting installation--that last thing the air force would have done is brought civilians into a combat operation. Dependents' only option, in war, would be to get as far away from North Bay as possible. The SAGE computer and electronics equipment was removed and replaced in 1982-1983 by newer, smaller more efficient computer and electronic equipment. And YES the Underground Complex was decommissioned. By the turn of the century the site had become so expensive to operate, and its NORAD equipment so antiquated compared to computers and electronics in the outside world, that it was decided to build a new facility above ground, outfitted with brand new state-of-the-art equipment. In October 2006--it was on the news, and we have conducted umpteen tours inside it, as proof of its existence--the new facility, called the Sgt David L. Pitcher Building (named for a Canadian NORAD member killed in an aircraft crash), was opened by the Minister of National Defence, moving our air defence operations out of the Underground Complex for good. The Complex has been kept in warm storage since--the utilities kept operating at the bare minimum to keep the facility from falling apart--while DND has been seeking a new occupant for the site. Incidentally, the Bill Paxton--Laurence Fishburne movie, The Colony, was filmed partially in the Underground Complex; this was only possible--having civilians with no security clearance roaming around the facility--because all of our NORAD operations had vacated the site. Next, there are no tunnels connecting the Underground Complex to the BOMARC site. There are only two--the North Tunnel, leading upto the air base, and the South Tunnel, leading upto the city at the end of Ski Club Road. Last, we didn't decommission the sit because of "asbestos usage and loose falling rock". The Complex is the size of Northgate Shopping Centre, minus the carpark. It began operations in 1963, using 1950s and 1960s technology--by the 21 Century the maintenance, servicing, upkeep and repair of the facility had become exceptionally expensive. Think of the cost of keeping a 40-year-old car running--one that you never stop driving 24/7 (for the Complex was always operating around-the-clock), and magnify that cost to something the size of Northgate. The problem with respect to the asbestos has to do with finding a new occupant; contrary to what you wrote the asbestos will have to be replaced due to health safety laws, and the cost will, again, exceptionally expensive, for the manpower to do the work and the materials. As for the loose rock, to give you an idea of how big the Underground Complex is we had miners working down there who would inspect and service the tunnel and cavern walls--it would take them two years just to do a single inspection of the Complex. Tending to loose rock over such a huge facility is not a small, simple task--added to this is that the mining staff was gradually reduced to zero personnel over the past 13 years. Respectfully, I do not know where you got the information which you supplied in your text but it was wrong, and indicates a source or sources who have never been in the Underground Complex.
@@raymondnewman6278 Captain Newman, thank you so much for correcting my faulty information, it was most enlightening to hear from a person like yourself who was there. My information came from my father, Corporal Michel Tibando who also worked in this underground SAGE facility. His and much of my understanding also came from seeing on several occasions the plexiglass model of the underground facility at North Bay RCAF Base during an open house week at the base. However, as a young boy of twelve years, I admit my recollection of information on this facility may have depreciated over the years, so I acquiesce to your recollections. What I fail to grasp is that the threat of a nuclear war is still ever present with us and building new facilities on the surface makes no sense as it is now an easy target to hit from the air, especially when the US military is building more underground complexes around the country! You would think that we Canadian would be doing the same, unless, we don't care or we are relying on the Americans to save our asses in a wartime scenario! Nevertheless, thank you again for your knowledge and insights!
@@TerryTibando No harm, no foul, Mr. Tibando. Our Underground Complex was, well, complex--a huge, intricate, complicated installation, so much that many people who worked down there weren't aware of all of its details. Added to this was the secret nature of NORAD operations, that a lot of facts and figures about the Underground Complex simply weren't divulged to Complex's employees who didn't have the right security clearance. In fact I worked down there in NORAD operations for many years during and after the Cold War, hold the right security clearance, and later became the air force's expert on the facility with respect to its history, operations and features, for tours, talks with the news media, visits by documentary teams (like the CBC crew), et cetera, and yet I still occasionally learn something. As for defence against nuclear strikes, the power and accuracy of nuclear weapons today would pretty well negate the advantage of being sited underground. Not to mention, even if North Bay's Underground Complex survived a nuclear war the bulk of Canada's cities, industrial centres and military bases (including North Bay's surface base and city) would be gone, destroyed. Same for the United States. This in fact is what kept the Cold War from turning 'hot'; that the destruction on both sides would be massively catastrophic. No one would win. The leaders on both sides recognized this.
@@raymondnewman6278 I was under the impression that the SAGE complex was the same as Colorado Springs? Built on springs? I know for sure CS is built on them, there is a video right here on TH-cam showing the engineering of those springs etc....
@@roblaurin1561 Our Main Installation (three-storey building that housed our command post, NORAD operations room, computers, medical facility, cafeteria, etc.) is built on specially designed and engineered steel pillars combined to reinforced concrete footings. The idea was that these would dampen the shock of a seismic event, like an earthquake, which we get from time to time, so that only a minimal amount of the shock was transmitted to the building, in turn causing minimal to no damage. This got a test of sorts at around 2:30 in the morning on New Year's morning, year 2000, when an earthquake 5.2 on the Richter Scale shook North Bay. Although the event had the strength of a medium-size Japanese or Italian earthquake, workers in the Main Installation didn't feel a thing. The Colorado Springs bunker opened three years after ours; I honestly do not know but they may have opted to use springs instead as an improvement over our pillar arrangement.
My father worked there in the 80s...bus driver...i lived on the base for 7 years...we where told it was part of the early warning radar system...know as the d.e.w. line ....i believe they use too refer to the "hole" as s.a.g.e.
Funny you should write that. When I gave tours in our Underground Complex (no longer being done) I would point out that their iPhones had more computing power and memory than the machines we were using, which were installed in 1982-1983. Then I would drop the punchline--how our original NORAD computer system, which weighed 275 tons and was the size of 12 small houses, and was meant to help us defend the North American continent against a Soviet nuclear bomber attack, had the gigantic memory of 256K! When I said this on one tour, a young boy in the group asked, "What's a 'K', sir?"
@@dapwn3ritswatido Think about it. Eight inch air gap for "overpressure" from a nuclear detonation. The windows are probably 12" of armour glass. The rocks are for the initial flash so people working there won't go blind.
I live at the base of the damn thing. There is no security it is just locked up. You can hike on the hill all around it. The is no activity nor has there been for a long time. If there is something inside it it is not very important. All you conspiracy theorist keep on dreaming!
I've just bought a old nuclear facility. I'm still in shock at how big it is..i was told and on the blueprints it had 24 miles of road but after checking it more like 45 miles of road. As they added on during the 1970s..its reaches under 5 local towns. I've not even been through 10 percent of the facility as yet... I don't know what I'm going to find in here.. But will enjoy looking.. It used to be the American airbase in Burtonwood.. Which as now houses built over the top... But the underground facility was too put up for sale..
How intriguing! I would be interested in ownership of such a place. Wonder if I could retire there from Canada? I wonder what something like that would cost?
When I was a child we took a bus to North Bay to take a field trip to the NORAD complex with St Thomas school in Sudbury we had a full tour and I remember the computer screens best regard stan
The movie "The Colony" (Laurence Fishburne) was shot there. So if you want to see what it looks like inside watch it. Noting really ground breaking. They just shot in some tunnels is all.
I live in southwestern Ontario, and I had a dream on Dec.13th 2018, that nuclear war with Russia had started. About 8 nukes flew overhead, and then the sky was filled with Russian fighter jets. The dream shook me up for days !
looks abandoned but theres still stuff going on there lol, go park out front, see how long it takes for some military police to show up and start questioning what/why you're there. im a local, been in this town for 25 years. lots of people been arrested out front of that place, usually teens smoking pot.. but none the less, theres still something going on in that place! why else would it be guarded?
Yes it still is guarded for some reason.I lived on the road leading to The Hole as the locals called it.I remember cement trucks going by our house 24-7 for months before it was finally completed.
Very much so. If Canada was ever attacked with nuclear weapons, there would be essentially no official plan for responding. Canadians would be on their own. Then again, how can you respond to a nuclear attack, anyway? Canada hasn't had a civil defence system of any note for decades and has never had any public shelters. Even if it did, ICBMs launched off subs sitting in the Atlantic ocean would arrive too quickly for anyone to make into the shelters.
I was a kid there when they built it. Even as a kid I understood it had something to do with cold war / nuclear realities. Which meant that we were a strategic military target. Which made for wacky nightmares in grade school. CF-100's and Voodoos buzzing the skyline. Air raid horns on public buildings. I remember drawing circles on North Bay maps with a math compass. Comparing kilotons to megatons. To draw a line from city hall requires little brain at all I know When I was nine, my brain was small.
Some levels are used as a museum, others are too deteriorated to be open to visitors. My father worked there, in the mid 50's, as a Radar Operator, for the missiles (Bo-Mark). He was a Flight Sargent.
LOL...I never thought Id see tent Mf'in city's here, but alas, I was wrong again. Worthington and Metcalfe right? Meth Zombies/Thieves is what they are.
Something similar under Val Cartier. Went in but didn't get to see much or go very far. Everything was off limits almost instantly despite being told it was decomissioned. Rumours were there were tunnels linking all the way back to Ottawa. I highly doubt there's any truth to that but if it is I'd bet all of these bunkers are linked. That'd be something else.
@COASTA LOECSTA Haha! Snoooooowflake! awww, whatsamatta, Orange man Bad again? Leave to a stupid liberal to interject TDS into a normal conversation. This is why normal people despise liberals. You cannot see anything past your politics and leftist leanings. Idiot. You libtards make me laugh. Boo! Scared? soyboy...lol
@COASTA LOECSTA Not that I think much of Trump but Obama did give North Korea a Green light to build Nukes by doing nothing, in fact North Korea perfected their Nukes while Obama was President. But I can tell beyond a shadow of a doubt you are quite happy that North Korea has Nukes.
This has been common knowledge to me since I was six. It helped that my father was a Cliff Clayvin of types. I had friends that worked there. Painters that would be blindfolded to go to the next room.
At some point there was a conspiracy theory? And when did people start to know about the blue room? ... Im writing a black novel based on north bay in 1995.
Cracked me up they showed a robbie r22 helicopter doing a training flight with a student pilot when mentioning heavy military presence LOL sure guys, and the kids on the scooters over there are the men in black!
@@MrBilld75 Bill, its still a NORAD installation man. Air Weapons too. They just moved it all to the surface. That is why you see that entire area now behind barbed wire, sensors and guard shacks. That used to be wide open, except for the North Portal entrance. We used to sneak up there when we were teenagers and got beer out of the vending machines in the Barrack Buildings. LOL!
I grew up there. Had to leave to find work, because like he said it is now a retirement town! Sad 😞 I really enjoyed watching this and seeing my hometown in video form. Everyone new someone that worked in the hole or the underground complex when I was growing up. It was a major military place then. Now not so much.
we scuba dived in front of it...Trout Lake...in the 90s...huge water pipe 45 or 50 feet below...4 to 5 feet in diameter...probably sewage pipe...wonder how treated it was back in the day.
That pipe is actually the old North Bay drinking water intake pipe, it brought water to the treatment plant. The new one is right across the bay from the old one now. I dived there too.
Hello. The Underground Complex has its own sewage system, that (back then, and still does today) collected the sewage and transferred it into the normal City of North Bay system. As for the water, to give you an idea of how forward-thinking the planners were back then (the Underground Complex was built between August 1959 and September 1963): the complex took (and still takes) in water from Trout Lake primarily to cool the site, to counter the enormous amount of heat produced by the computers and electronics (no longer exist). Sort of like a car's radiator, pipes of water throughout the Underground Complex absorbed the heat. Then the water was sent to our Power Cavern, the life support facility in the complex, where it was filtered and chilled, then transferred to the the hill beside Trout Lake. The water ran down the slope and re-entered the lake; when it arrived it was clean and within a degree or two of the lake's temperature--therefore didn't have a harmful effect on the ecology. Cheers. Doug Newman, Wing Heritage Officer, 22 Wing/Canadian Forces Base North Bay.
My grandma was an operator under that mountain for over 25 years. She loved it! My papa also worked under there, but for Bell.
What year(s)? My Dad took me in there when I was home sick from school around 1964 or so.
Late 60's early 70's until it shut down
I grew up watching jets and huge planes flying around as a kid. We also had the craziest air shows every year. I loved growing up in North Bay from the mid 70's to early 2000's great place
Captain Newman, what a fantastic story and tribute to the many men and women who worked "underground". My father worked in "the hole" for many years in the "blue room" as he would call it during and after the Cold War. He just passed about 5 years ago and would have loved this story. My dad was a proud member of the Air Force and arranged for class members from then St. Josephs Girls College to take the official tour. Seeing this video brings back memories as we actually lived on the base as well. The decommission really did take a toll on this beautiful city from which it never did recover. So sad. Was visiting relatives this past summer having left 26 years ago. Still a beautiful city though. Thanks for the memories.
Thank you. (Long overdue--I don't get back to comments on this video as often as I should.)
my proud Canadian salute sent out to you and your honorable proud Canadian Father
@@truth431 Thank you.
@@raymondnewman6278 your very much welcome 🍁
Fantastic! Not only a humorous and informative story but an honest, beautiful and fascinating take on a unknown bit of Canadiana. The visuals are incredibly smart and succinct and the stark images give way to a truly absorbing narrative. Brilliant and well done!
Patrick Collins glad you enjoyed it!
*_What means Patrick collins_* ?
Canadiana. Great channel btw.
:unknown bit of Canadiana"
Canadians know.
For an inactive base/hole it’s still guarded and you will be “asked” to leave if you even go to the parking lot beside it.
I wonder if they go in every few months.. crazy to think there’s this huge installation underground , probably still lit up & everything .. but no one is allowed in
I went down there in 1985 with the air cadets in Newmarket. I'm happy I found this video, so I could show my now grown children, one of our Canadian historical sites, that can't be witnessed as I was able to.
Thank you.
The threat has not diminished any. The only thing that has changed is that people stopped preparing for it because nothing can be done anyway.
I think it was great. Posted to North Bay as military police. Protected the “North and South” accesses 24hrs. Went down there maybe 5 times. I had a 5 year posting. Lots of fun. Guess no one told them about the third entrance.
I had the privilege of visiting the complex twice in 1979 and 1983 with the Air Cadets. We saw the radar room, the computer room and I believe the "room with the big map" . There was actually an unknown aircraft that appeared on the screens while I was there. It turned out to be a Yugoslavian airliner. On the 1983 tour they were replacing the computers and the diesel generators. At that time the complex seemed much less sinister. We couldn't take pictures, do now it feels like a dream nobody would believe.
Aliens have taken over the base 🇨🇦👽🛸✨✨✨✨💫💫
canada’s own area 51? i’m joking, i live a few mins away from this and it has always interests me. i kinda hope there’s something going on down there
I actually live close to there as well. But there's nothing going on down there.
I use to live like 5 mins from this nothing going on
You wanna know where there is stuff going on? Go to Alert its in the far north of Canada
There may be nothing going on
But
I was guided
Bigtime
To go for a drive the other day and Anchor energies
Everywhere
And
Wow
It’s nice to finally hear what I knew whiteout knowing
4 years of transmuting energies and Anchoring Light here
It’s real nice to have validation of some truths
Could be stuff going on further north where the likelyhood of somebody stumbling upin a secret military outpost.
While in U.S. Air Force, I was stationed there, and worked in the Hole from 1979 to 1983. I was stationed there just prior to, during and after the transition from the old SAGE system to the ROCC system. During that transition, a bunch of us went to St Margarets NB, continued our duties their until the new system came online.
I was at BUIC for the close out, While the ROCC was coming online. I spent the summer in St Maggies on call as SDT while North Bay took over, great summer, golfed a lot. We must have crossed paths,
@@dunk22 We had to cross paths at St Maggies. In fact, the name Jimbo is very familiar to me. I sat at the Identification console. I got tagged to go there because of my past BUIC experience. Originally trained in the BUIC system 1970 at Charleston Air Force Station in Maine, I would find myself years later on two occasions working BUIC, long after they shut the system down in the States. The other occasion besides St Margarets, was when gathered a bunch of us to go to Fort Fisher Air Force Station. For several weeks they would send us down there for a couple days at a time.
@@stephenhornung2808 Hi I worked with you in ident in SAGE and ROCC in North Bay I'm 99.9% sure. Remember "Bubba"
This is the hole they used to track santa from
Lmao! I woke up this morning “I’ve been living here for 5 years and I have no zombie plan.” And then I see this.
Do you currently have a zombie plan?
To close the end of an era, when this thing was decommissioned, we had a golf ball race. Where anyone who bought a ball, could win a prize (some of the money collected from the golf ball sales, the rest went to charity) for being the first ball to the end of the tunnel. All were dropped at once (to be fair) and away they went. It was a pretty cool way to say goodbye to a really cool part of History. It was indeed one of the most important and secret military bases in North America, one of only two underground radar in North America.
One in Colorado Springs and one in North Bay. Myself and many others, from growing up here our whole lives and having relatives in the military here, knew the significance of it and that yes, we were a prime target in the event of war. The guy with the bunker, was on the right track, but clearly, doesn't know the History and depth of the significance of this place and all the cool details. What are you going to take out, strategically if you want to be successful against your enemy? The ability to detect you and that's what NORAD is.
Lots of other interesting secret projects have happened here over the years and that base "was" very active not only for Canadians, but MANY American military personnel have been there and secret aircraft (the Stealth Bomber has been here a few times, for example) and other military tech over the years. Seen lots of tanks on trains etc. Even some people who live here, have no idea the significance of what they did here, because it wasn't made obvious sometimes.
Now, it is a retirement community, they are right. Only military personnel in their last days of there career are sent here. It's not a terribly active base anymore. Lots of it is inhabited by private companies, like Bombardier, building water bombers and they are trying to attract more industries/manufacturing to this old but still very useful/functional airbase and we could use the industry/jobs, because we don't have any real industry to speak of. It's a tourist stopover (the Gateway) to the North. Most jobs here are hospitality industry related or Government. I believe a meat processing/packaging operation is the latest one to open up here (and I think it's at the airbase) and that's great for jobs.
We get a LOT of that (tourism is what we survive on and it's a BEAUTIFUL tourist destination like no other). Our sunsets are legendary (a mix of a rainbow of colours) and the outdoors here, is amazing. We have many motels/hotels and restaurants to the effect (too many really) and we get people from all over the world here. American Snowmobilers in the winter and Germans, Asians, Islanders from South of the States etc. and people from every corner of the planet, in the summer.
It's a picturesque place really. Tourists are forever saying "What a beautiful place" and it is. Not a place to open a small business (3rd worst place in Canada to do it) unless you in a niche, in demand market and small businesses frequently fail, but if you want an outdoors vacation like no other, this is it. Lots of filming happens here now, because we have it all in terms of visuals.
Thank's to Jerry O'Connell and his show Carter, for putting us on the Hollywood map. He loves it here, he sang the praises of the place to the film industry and now we are a hot spot for filming and there is "some" kind industry going on here now, just not manufacturing like we had hoped for and wanted (Sudbury always gets it).
How long-ish did it take the golf balls to make it to the end?
@@dfathers Don't have an exact time (I was away when the golf ball drop took place); however the North Tunnel is about two kilometres long, but has a 10 percent grade (steep hill) down a hard, paved road between rock walls. When the golf balls got bouncing and moving, they MOVED. Easily less than a minute!
Leave it to CBC to produce a documentary with no footage of the subject (the underground bunker).
What? . . Sorry, i fell asleep.
*_What is the meaning of mister miner_* ??
It is still in use and operationally sensitive to "visitors" of any stripe.
@@brianrichard8310 True but so is Cheyenne Mountain and there are documentaries about its construction and occupants both past & present. Post-apocalyptic sci-fi film “The Colony" was also partly filmed at NB and at least one mom got a guided tour by her son that can be watched on YT. But.. that was 2013 so this poses an interesting question. Was this short film merely lazy journalism or a subtle way of saying something has changed inside?
Actually, there are several levels still in use as a relay station for NORAD.
My grandfather worked down there in the 60's and 70's. Was never aloud to say what he did down there only that he did it in there. In the late 70's when my dad was in his early 70s they moved to Kingston where he worked at both the base in Kingston and in nearby cfb Trenton where he retired in the 80s
I live in North Bay, Ontario. I'm about 6 minutes away from the base (Thats what we call it.) I've seen it from the outside, but I've never seen it from inside. Now that it's closed down the front of it literally looks like an apocalypse shelter. What the guy also said about military presence is pretty true, we do see a lot of aircraft like jets and such here.
Canadian Forces Base North Bay still exists, although in much reduced form. That's why you see so much military activity. There is also an above-ground air traffic monitoring facility that monitors civilian and military air traffic and it probably has some ability to detect and track incoming missiles too, although I understand that satellites now do the bulk of the detection work.
@@stevestruthers6180 Cool, thanks I didn't know that.
I always knew
This does not shock me
Nothing is as it seems
@@genevievemichele7 True that bro
And today I would like to welcome the fellow Canadians that are probably scrolling through there recommended and are seeing this after the False Nuclear incident this morning, even if you weren't in Ontario, have a good day eh!
TesleyWhompson I thought it would be the next Chernobyl
When North Bay had the Heritage Festival in the 1990s - early 2000s, they used to operate tours of the underground complex. I believe the last time I was down there for one of the tours was in 2006. Riding the bus down the tunnel with the lights passing by on each side reminded me of being in a subway. Once you were past the huge door seen at 7:13 the feel was like being inside an office building from the 1960s / 1970s , minus windows.
I have been on one of those tours. I believe it was on the Civic Holiday weekend in August. An amazing place.
I’ll tell you what the government is hiding in there: maple syrup.
Probably !haha
how aboot yeh shut the fach up aboots aour mayples syrups there baie
Uh. YOU BASIC.
All very funny answers. LOL! We are currently on the "Maple Syrup Standard", and not the "Gold Standard". After all . . . It's as good as gold.
2 Russian spies were caught here and sent to Guantanamo bay when they worked on the wiring. Nobody knows about it and it’s not in mainstream media 🤨
I grew up in North Bay and everyone called it the Sage. My best friend growing up has his Mom and Step dad both working there. Cool old place. Not sure why they didn't talk about the military runway and a huge base plus military housing that was all on top of the mountain called the SAGE. And the road to get up there was called airport rd. Huge complex
It's pouring rain in North Bay now in case anyone was wondering. 😒
Cool video
*_kitna ajeeb Nam hai tumhara_*
I love this channel...I always learn something while watching these videos!
Thanks so much for watching!
Looks abandoned but still powered up. Didn't even look like 1 light was burnt out. If there isn't anything going on down there, it probably wouldn't take much to get something happening down there.
I grew up knowing, after the "Moccasin Raid" that I had 23 seconds to live once Russian missiles crossed the DEW line. we were the first target. We all knew the base was armed. When I taught Canadian History, 1837 to the Present, (1982), I read in our textbook that there have never been nuclear arms in Canada. I was shocked, and so I thaught the class about North Bay, and the base in Lamacassé, (sp), Quebec. Of course, they never believed me.
Please tell us more about this base in Quebec that I must admit that I have never heard about...
There were nukes here in the 60's. I thought everyone knew that? We had one of those missiles mounted on a concrete pedestal by Judge and Lakeshore, and a CF 100 on the other side of the road, if you recall. We all grew up here under the nuclear threat. We all knew it too, when we were in grade 7 and 8. I often wonder what effect that had on some people. Growing up knowing you could be vaporized at anytime if the Russians and the US went at er....Maybe that was why a lot of us were pretty wild in our younger years. When Reagan was President, and the wall fell, Glasnost happened, the threat was really diminished for a time afterwards. We lived dangerously around here for sure. Colorado Springs and this little City were the number 1 target for Russian Missiles. Take out our eyes 1st.
Canada did possess a limited number of nuclear weapons in the late 1950s and early 1960s. The Bomarc missiles stationed at RCAF La Macaza were nuclear-tipped but under American control.
Canada's fleet of CF101 Voodoo fighters also carried Genie nuclear-tipped missiles that were designed to take out groups of Russian bombers entering Canadian airspace. And the CF101 Starfighter jets we had in Germany could carry nuclear bombs for tactical strikes, although these too, were under US control and would likely only have been used if the Americans and NATO authorized their use in time of war.
After Pierre Trudeau was elected, Canada ceased maintaining any inventories of nuclear weapons.
@@theabrosplay no kidding. I'm not feeling real safe. I live 2 miles from ground zero. Cray cray times....
The lights are still on.....
I've been down there about 10 years ago, there was NOTHING, just an empty building. It was still creepy. There was a giant door to the entrance of the building, kind of like a bank vault door.
Been there twice so fascinating right here in my hometown. Dave palangio is a walking encyclopedia of knowledge. So proud of our contribution to protecting north America .ps these radar techs spotted the planes off course on 9/11and reported it to norad command
I'm from North Bay myself I'd like to know what's under trout Lake
I've been in this complex and watched the screen that monitored air defense before they decided to build another complex above ground ...the bus just sped through that tunnel with little space on either side
I also hiked up to the top of the hill and saw all the old concrete rain reservoirs
the bunker looks like a great place to spend the GRAND SOLAR MINIMUM, which we are in right now, an ice age.. move underground, bring grow lights, grow a garden, stay warm
That will be great will all the asbestos down there.
bbruce995
Lol ... better read up on that grand solar minimum again.
nice....great editing....the kids are priceless...they tell your story in their faces.
I love being a local here in The Bay!
Where abouts in North Bay is this underground layer?
@@DJCharmstrong It's a military bunker inside our local ski hill. Not too sure where the exact entrance is but it's pretty cool
@@jordanasmith7587 on Airport Hill inside the Base
@@aileenfulgens1909 i had no idea! thanks for the info! :)
@paul laprise I was born in Kingston, was adopted with my two siblings, moved here in '02 or '03 we have our adoptive dad's last name and its more common in England of all places. "Maker of things" is what it translates into :)
I find it hard to believe that someone hasn't bought that complex and turned it into multiple luxury bomb shelters if the military are in fact no longer using it. It happens all the time and they normally sell for upwards of 2 million dollars.
You are acting like we got that kind of money
The only problem is that it is under an active military base. The sister site to Colorado Springs. NORAD's main radar.
SUPER COOL! I've actually had the honour and privilege to go down into the "hole" and let me tell you it was extraordinary, one of my most memorable experiences. It was back in the 90's, myself and a few others got to adventure through the complex, i remember the bus ride down there thinking we were gonna crash! the driver drove so fast! and there was maybe what felt like inches on either side of the bus! it was awesome.
I'm the Captain Doug Newman in the video. For a few years I was the official Underground Complex tour guide. From senior citizens to kids, both Canadian and international visitors, the groups I guided unanimously remarked that the bus trip was one of the coolest rides in Canada. The speed was a trick on the senses. The bus only did 40 kilometres per hour, but because it was so close to the tunnel walls it seemed to be moving like a bullet down a gun barrel.
My brother went down there, too. Twas around the same time in the 90's while based at Barrie Base.
Would be cool if they opened it back up for tours again!
Unless it was a D.U.M.B. that had cia or nefarious activity asunder, etc.
Might make for a interesting concept for a Fallout game based in Canada...
Instead of radioactive wasteland with mutants and populations, it could be on basic survival and exploration given that it's a wilderness in the cold north.
At 19:50 the young man says "they must use it for something, why would they let that much engeneering go to waste?
One word: government
The best money wasters in the world.
Okay buddy
@@jacob.g.l1592 let me guess. Civil Servant?
I wouldn't exactly call that guy a young man lol 😂
My parents were in the air force and stationed in North Bay twice. I knew of Sage Mountain but regretfully never got to take the bus down the hole.
The Underground complex is decommissioned. It is un used as it's FULL of asbestos. There will be no forseable use for it.
I worked in there as a teenager years ago. It was an amazing place to be. I joined the RCAF because I worked in there during 9/11.
I became a ATIS tech that serviced and repaired all the equip used in there.
I live in North Bay and never had the chance to go down into the hole. I do however get to deliver inside the new above ground D.L.P building. From what i hear, the hole was no longer able to withstand the blasts from nuclear weapons now. It's also constantly filling with water that has to be pumped out. There was talk about turning it into storage for government documents ect. But i heard they decided against that. Not sure it would be worth it to do anything there now. Still be cool to see inside!
Please, no more nuclear bombs, threats, peace, and happy food, it's the best solution, against war or violent annhialation
V'GER Lightning and lots of pizzas,dont forget pizzas
I was born there and spent the first six years of my life there, and had no idea about this. 😊
Same! Haha I'm still trying to figure out where the entrance is
@@user-jh2pp5xh9h it's at the end of ski club overlooking trout Lake. Or at least that's where my grandma would go in, park, or something along those lines.
There is still electricity in that hole so there must be something down there.
Grow op
@@remi009340 trudopes stash
I went down that tunnel on a school trip as a kid! Super cool to see this doc as a local :)
Great Video, Thanks Raymond. I remember you from my days in the hole.
Thanks. Would have replied to you sooner, but since the video has been out for over a year, I don't check the comments as often as I used to. Cheers and best wishes.
Jimbo where abouts in north bay is this bunker? Also if all hell breaks loose are we able to go there for survival? Fellow Ontarian here!
@@shirleybaker3599 it's on the base, up by the airport, just past the airport turn off, the next right should get you there. That's the North Entrance, the other entrance in the south is near trot lake.
My best friend's dad was killed in the construction of this thing. My family moved out of town in 63 and none to soon because we did not to live at a potential ground zero.
Hello. I'm the Captain Newman in the video, retired from the air force, but still doing the Wing Heritage Officer's job for the air force base. Can you elaborate on what happened, and when it happened? Neither my office's files nor our museum's archives have a report of a death. Not saying that it didn't happen, just that we haven't heard of this. Cheers. Doug Newman, Wing Heritage Officer, 22 Wing/Canadian Forces Base North Bay
4:44 I totally forgot about the number a thousand kagillion.. Thanks kid
The .001 %rs
I see it out my window its still very busy
My dad was a radar tech During the cold war and he worked at the NB underground base. He still won't tell me what he did to this day.
That guy lying at the end... Bats. Pigeon.... Took over.. Lol
The mountain bike trails that line the hill in that video are pretty sweet
Its bike in the summer. Cross country skiing in the winter
Hello. I'm the Captain Newman in the video. There are a lot of excellent paved and gravel back roads in the area to ride as well, cutting through the thick of the forest, with hills to work the legs, and very little traffic to contend with. I try to do at least one hour-long and one two-hour-long ride each week (work, weather and other factors permitting).
Raymond Newman that’s good that you try to get out there once in a while it’s good for the body I try to go when I can it’s a steep climb, I start usually at the little hydro thing all fenced in just before the NORAD Entrance, I learned last time that there’s no point in the trails if you don’t have good brakes on you’re bike hahaha.
@@horsestickmpg8400 I bring my dog who loves it.
Duncan Ramsay that’s great! Every time I’m out there I usually see others walking or biking there’s so much to explore.
I was posted there 77 to 81 and drove busses in the tunnel.
You guys (term gender-neutral) were great! You never got the thanks or respect you deserved. When I started giving tours, in the late 1990s and early 2000s, the drivers always took excellent care of our groups. In fact you drivers were the reason why our tours unanimously declared the bus trips into the Underground Complex as the coolest rides in Canada. So, long overdue and properly in caps: THANK YOU! Doug Newman, Wing Heritage Officer, 22 Wing/Canadian Forces Base North Bay.
@Lynn Harrington - Did you work with "Jonesy"? :)
I went down in the Hole when i was about 12 years old. A relative was a higher ranking member of the Air Force and we went down on a tour on a small bus. It was pretty cool from what I can remember, but it was a lot of "We can't go in there, We can't access that. Here's a lunchroom, that's a washroom, That room is restricted." The best part was the drive down the tunnel - It was like something out of a movie.
Hello, Mr. Bungay. Please see my response to your remarks, above. Cheers. Doug Newman, 22 Wing Heritage Officer
Raymond Newman I dont see any response, just this comment.
Response was not the correct word, perhaps. I wrote an explanation at the start of this comment chain to various points brought up in the chain, including yours. That is, specific to you, regarding your restriction from accessing parts of the complex, like the Operations Room and Command Post, a NORAD air defence operation might have been under way. In which case, the Operations Room and Command Post, the most interesting part of a tour, would have been temporarily out of bounds to visitors. This happened to me a couple of times when I was leading tours in the Underground Complex, including to a group of senior citizens from the Netherlands who were our guests in thanks for taking care of Canadian war veterans in their country. We got to the Operations Room door when an operation was announced; so we were unable to enter the Ops Room or Command Post. That they were our guests was irrelevant. Your age wasn't a factor, either, in limitation of access. I've led numerous school tours in the UGC, including into the Ops and Command Post.
Raymond Newman Ok gotcha now. I spent my whole life living next to an army base so I know what its like ti be kicked out of an area for an operation haha. Aside from that, the tour was still a really cool experience for me and I will always remember it. Thank you for the clarification!
did you see the WOPR?
The us military still uses one floor of this facility
No one uses the Underground Complex anymore. Not the Americans and not the Canadians. The Department of National Defence was unable to find anyone to take it over, due to its age, cost to operate, and security issues (22 Wing/Canadian Forces Base North Bay is still a NORAD base.)
It used to gross me out the thought of war and being stuck on duty down there, just to die a month or so later kind of like being in a sub.
It is hard to imagine the Canadian government decommissioning this underground facility as it probably cost hundreds of millions of dollars (perhaps, even a few billion)to build in its initial
construction days.
My father worked in this underground "Sage Site" (the proper name for (Semi-Automatic Ground Environment) located by Trout Lake which was linked via the intranet to Cheyenne Mountain in Colorado, USA. My dad used to talk about it all the time and our family used to go up to the RCAF airbase situated 10 miles away to the east to see the planes, jets and the plexiglass model of the underground control facility.
SAGE was a part of the NORAD Cold War computer network. The 4-story underground SAGE with 3.5 acres of floor space were hardened for overpressures of" 5 psi (34 kPa). A shorter adjoining building in the facility had generators below the 4 intake/exhaust structures on the roof. The whole complex was built on four giant springs which would help dampen the shockwaves of a potential nuclear detonation nearby with a three-foot thick steel door sealed off the complex to any outsiders. 2500 RCAF servicemen and their families could be housed in this facility in the event of an all-out
nuclear war! One floor was devoted to the most powerful computers of their time, the AN/FSQ-7 Combat Direction Central, (aka. Q7) which was a computerized command and control system for Cold War ground-controlled interception, however, in this day and age, everyone has more power and versatility in their pocket cell phones than these computers.
The Bomarc nuclear-tipped missiles situated 10 miles north of the underground complex could be fired from the North Bay SAGE SITE command centre or/either from Cheyenne Mountain. These weapons were housed in what appeared to be one story homes where the roofs would open to allow the missiles to be fired and the whole missile complex was surrounded with10 foot high barbed wire.
The real question is was this underground complex really decommissioned or was it updated upgraded with an even deeper, more advanced complex that would be keeping with current technology? Given the extensive tunnel system that already exists linking the city, the airbase and no doubt the missile base to this command centre and with the current, highly secretive amount of tunnel boring going on across and throughout North America, it is suspicious that the excuse for decommissioning the SAGE site was due to heavy asbestos usage and loose falling rock! These reasons to close down this complex makes no sense given the amount of money thrown toward the development and building this complex was expensive, asbestos removable is now easier and cheaper than before and loose rock can be prevented from falling by encasing it in cement re-enforcement!
The world today is no safer than it was back in the early fifties and such facilities would still serve a vital role today in Canada's military!
Hello, Mr. Tibando. I'm the Captain Newman in the documentary. Respectfully, a few corrections to your comments. (I have to wonder where you got your information.) The Underground Complex (known by many names over the decades including SAGE) cost $51 million to build, not hundreds of millions of dollars. The U.S. paid two-thirds the cost, Canada funded the rest. Also the Underground Complex, the isn't four storeys. It comprises two principal pieces, the 3-storey Main Installation (inside a 5-storey-tall cavern), which used to house the NORAD operations room, the command post, computer rooms, medical facility, cafeteria, etc., and the 3-storey Power Cavern, which holds all of the machinery that provides life support for the facility, such as diesel-electric generators, water pumps, etc. Furthermore, our Main Installation is not built on springs--a common mistaken belief--but on steel pillars specially designed and engineered to dissipate the the seismic shock wave of an earthquake or nuclear blasts. On New Years Eve North Bay received an earthquake 5.2 on the Richter Scale, a medium-size Japan or Indonesia level earthquake; the military personnel in the Main Installation didn't feel a thing. And there are many more than four pillars, in order to hold aloft what is essentially a three-storey office building--you can actually walk underneath it. Next, there isn't a three-foot thick steel door; instead there are three 19-ton steel bank-vault type blast doors, each one situated at one of the subterranean entrances into the Underground Complex. Despite their weight, equal to a medium-size bulldozer, each is so well-balanced it can be moved by a 12-year-old girl--I used to do this when giving school tours. Next, the Underground Complex would NOT house "2,500 RCAF servicemen and their families". First, at its peak of operations, the Underground Complex had a work force of 750 American and Canadian people, civilians as well as military, who worked shifts as well as day work. Second, no family members would be allowed in the Complex in the event of war. For one thing there was no room for them. For another the Complex did not have enough food, air or water to accommodate them. And thirdly, the Complex was a war-fighting installation--that last thing the air force would have done is brought civilians into a combat operation. Dependents' only option, in war, would be to get as far away from North Bay as possible. The SAGE computer and electronics equipment was removed and replaced in 1982-1983 by newer, smaller more efficient computer and electronic equipment. And YES the Underground Complex was decommissioned. By the turn of the century the site had become so expensive to operate, and its NORAD equipment so antiquated compared to computers and electronics in the outside world, that it was decided to build a new facility above ground, outfitted with brand new state-of-the-art equipment. In October 2006--it was on the news, and we have conducted umpteen tours inside it, as proof of its existence--the new facility, called the Sgt David L. Pitcher Building (named for a Canadian NORAD member killed in an aircraft crash), was opened by the Minister of National Defence, moving our air defence operations out of the Underground Complex for good. The Complex has been kept in warm storage since--the utilities kept operating at the bare minimum to keep the facility from falling apart--while DND has been seeking a new occupant for the site. Incidentally, the Bill Paxton--Laurence Fishburne movie, The Colony, was filmed partially in the Underground Complex; this was only possible--having civilians with no security clearance roaming around the facility--because all of our NORAD operations had vacated the site. Next, there are no tunnels connecting the Underground Complex to the BOMARC site. There are only two--the North Tunnel, leading upto the air base, and the South Tunnel, leading upto the city at the end of Ski Club Road. Last, we didn't decommission the sit because of "asbestos usage and loose falling rock". The Complex is the size of Northgate Shopping Centre, minus the carpark. It began operations in 1963, using 1950s and 1960s technology--by the 21 Century the maintenance, servicing, upkeep and repair of the facility had become exceptionally expensive. Think of the cost of keeping a 40-year-old car running--one that you never stop driving 24/7 (for the Complex was always operating around-the-clock), and magnify that cost to something the size of Northgate. The problem with respect to the asbestos has to do with finding a new occupant; contrary to what you wrote the asbestos will have to be replaced due to health safety laws, and the cost will, again, exceptionally expensive, for the manpower to do the work and the materials. As for the loose rock, to give you an idea of how big the Underground Complex is we had miners working down there who would inspect and service the tunnel and cavern walls--it would take them two years just to do a single inspection of the Complex. Tending to loose rock over such a huge facility is not a small, simple task--added to this is that the mining staff was gradually reduced to zero personnel over the past 13 years. Respectfully, I do not know where you got the information which you supplied in your text but it was wrong, and indicates a source or sources who have never been in the Underground Complex.
@@raymondnewman6278 Captain Newman, thank you so much for correcting my faulty information, it was most enlightening to hear from a person like yourself who was there. My information came from my father, Corporal Michel Tibando who also worked in this underground SAGE facility. His and much of my understanding also came from seeing on several occasions the plexiglass model of the underground facility at North Bay RCAF Base during an open house week at the base. However, as a young boy of twelve years, I admit my recollection of information on this facility may have depreciated over the years, so I acquiesce to your recollections.
What I fail to grasp is that the threat of a nuclear war is still ever present with us and building new facilities on the surface makes no sense as it is now an easy target to hit from the air, especially when the US military is building more underground complexes around the country! You would think that we Canadian would be doing the same, unless, we don't care or we are relying on the Americans to save our asses in a wartime scenario!
Nevertheless, thank you again for your knowledge and insights!
@@TerryTibando No harm, no foul, Mr. Tibando. Our Underground Complex was, well, complex--a huge, intricate, complicated installation, so much that many people who worked down there weren't aware of all of its details. Added to this was the secret nature of NORAD operations, that a lot of facts and figures about the Underground Complex simply weren't divulged to Complex's employees who didn't have the right security clearance. In fact I worked down there in NORAD operations for many years during and after the Cold War, hold the right security clearance, and later became the air force's expert on the facility with respect to its history, operations and features, for tours, talks with the news media, visits by documentary teams (like the CBC crew), et cetera, and yet I still occasionally learn something. As for defence against nuclear strikes, the power and accuracy of nuclear weapons today would pretty well negate the advantage of being sited underground. Not to mention, even if North Bay's Underground Complex survived a nuclear war the bulk of Canada's cities, industrial centres and military bases (including North Bay's surface base and city) would be gone, destroyed. Same for the United States. This in fact is what kept the Cold War from turning 'hot'; that the destruction on both sides would be massively catastrophic. No one would win. The leaders on both sides recognized this.
@@raymondnewman6278 I was under the impression that the SAGE complex was the same as Colorado Springs? Built on springs? I know for sure CS is built on them, there is a video right here on TH-cam showing the engineering of those springs etc....
@@roblaurin1561 Our Main Installation (three-storey building that housed our command post, NORAD operations room, computers, medical facility, cafeteria, etc.) is built on specially designed and engineered steel pillars combined to reinforced concrete footings. The idea was that these would dampen the shock of a seismic event, like an earthquake, which we get from time to time, so that only a minimal amount of the shock was transmitted to the building, in turn causing minimal to no damage. This got a test of sorts at around 2:30 in the morning on New Year's morning, year 2000, when an earthquake 5.2 on the Richter Scale shook North Bay. Although the event had the strength of a medium-size Japanese or Italian earthquake, workers in the Main Installation didn't feel a thing. The Colorado Springs bunker opened three years after ours; I honestly do not know but they may have opted to use springs instead as an improvement over our pillar arrangement.
Every Canadian ever: "I seen it on kjiji, I had to have it"
My father worked there in the 80s...bus driver...i lived on the base for 7 years...we where told it was part of the early warning radar system...know as the d.e.w. line ....i believe they use too refer to the "hole" as s.a.g.e.
Bullseye! Exactly. How do I know? My father worked there, 1950-1954, and he talked often about it to me.
The tour guide shouldn't feel bad. Now a days the average persons holds more technology in their hands than the Prime minister did ten years ago.
Funny you should write that. When I gave tours in our Underground Complex (no longer being done) I would point out that their iPhones had more computing power and memory than the machines we were using, which were installed in 1982-1983. Then I would drop the punchline--how our original NORAD computer system, which weighed 275 tons and was the size of 12 small houses, and was meant to help us defend the North American continent against a Soviet nuclear bomber attack, had the gigantic memory of 256K! When I said this on one tour, a young boy in the group asked, "What's a 'K', sir?"
Had a tour of the facility in 1988 when I was in the Army cadets. Freaky, windows with rocks 8 inches from the glass.
why would they place windows 8 inches away from a rock wall?
@@dapwn3ritswatido Think about it. Eight inch air gap for "overpressure" from a nuclear detonation. The windows are probably 12" of armour glass. The rocks are for the initial flash so people working there won't go blind.
Old useless abandoned bomb shelter,
that still has the lights on. 12:30
Dear Ed: Only a SUCKER would believe that they're just using it for "storage" if they won't let the public even see what's down there.
I live at the base of the damn thing. There is no security it is just locked up. You can hike on the hill all around it. The is no activity nor has there been for a long time. If there is something inside it it is not very important. All you conspiracy theorist keep on dreaming!
I took note of that also LOL
Still draining our pockets. 🇨🇦😐
@@timadams2042 the entrance is thru a house very close to YOURS....
they stopped using the front door years ago
I've just bought a old nuclear facility. I'm still in shock at how big it is..i was told and on the blueprints it had 24 miles of road but after checking it more like 45 miles of road. As they added on during the 1970s..its reaches under 5 local towns. I've not even been through 10 percent of the facility as yet... I don't know what I'm going to find in here.. But will enjoy looking.. It used to be the American airbase in Burtonwood.. Which as now houses built over the top... But the underground facility was too put up for sale..
How intriguing! I would be interested in ownership of such a place. Wonder if I could retire there from Canada? I wonder what something like that would cost?
i was born there in 1955. i didnt know about the ballistic missiles with nuclear bombs but i knew about the bunker except it's location.
When I was a child we took a bus to North Bay to take a field trip to the NORAD complex with St Thomas school in Sudbury we had a full tour and I remember the computer screens best regard stan
not a full tour LOL
I'm from North Bay and we took a bus to Sudbury to go underground in the nickel mine.
The movie "The Colony" (Laurence Fishburne) was shot there. So if you want to see what it looks like inside watch it. Noting really ground breaking. They just shot in some tunnels is all.
part of the cooling system...thanx Raymond for the info
I live in southwestern Ontario, and I had a dream on Dec.13th 2018, that nuclear war with Russia had started. About 8 nukes flew overhead, and then the sky was filled with Russian fighter jets. The dream shook me up for days !
@@theabrosplay I've been thinking about that dream quite a bit during the last week.
Hey, do you have that Shelter on Air BnB?
idjit
@@WEBest-tl5dn calm down..dummy!
@@-WhizzBang- its not a shelter with AirBnB you need, but a white padded room lockup and a loaded covid19 vacine courtesy of bill gates your buddy
looks abandoned but theres still stuff going on there lol, go park out front, see how long it takes for some military police to show up and start questioning what/why you're there. im a local, been in this town for 25 years. lots of people been arrested out front of that place, usually teens smoking pot.. but none the less, theres still something going on in that place! why else would it be guarded?
Hello, Joe Blow. Please see my response to your remarks, above. Cheers. Doug Newman, 22 Wing Heritage Officer
Just because it should be said, it is still guarded because the Underground Complex is still part of the base.
Yes it still is guarded for some reason.I lived on the road leading to The Hole as the locals called it.I remember cement trucks going by our house 24-7 for months before it was finally completed.
@@j_london9791 Ski Club Road you mean. I still live 2 blocks away, for most of my life.
The us still use a one complete level of that facility top security
"I can't belive they'd waste the money and engineering"...Hell in the US Military that might as well be the motto lol.
I Hate American Conspiracy Nuts BUT! I do believe Canada is far behind as far as Emergency Preparedness, to say the least...
Very much so. If Canada was ever attacked with nuclear weapons, there would be essentially no official plan for responding. Canadians would be on their own.
Then again, how can you respond to a nuclear attack, anyway? Canada hasn't had a civil defence system of any note for decades and has never had any public shelters. Even if it did, ICBMs launched off subs sitting in the Atlantic ocean would arrive too quickly for anyone to make into the shelters.
Very nice video. Poinient. Hi to our distant relatives.
My dad worked there in the mid 50's.
My wife is from here, and my in laws are still there. You look at that hill and just wonder at the complex underneath
They used to test the air raid sirens in the late 70’s. They are flipping loud! Place is still guarded.. Something down there? 🤔. 🤫.
I was posted there 84- 89 707 com sqn in com center...I have been in the underground complex in Carp, it was old and creepy
I was a kid there when they built it.
Even as a kid I understood it had something to do with cold war / nuclear realities.
Which meant that we were a strategic military target.
Which made for wacky nightmares in grade school.
CF-100's and Voodoos buzzing the skyline. Air raid horns on public buildings.
I remember drawing circles on North Bay maps with a math compass.
Comparing kilotons to megatons.
To draw a line from city hall requires little brain at all
I know
When I was nine, my brain was small.
I can’t pinch a loaf without my wifi dropping.
Great documentary about a derelict bunker
I know someone who did asbestos remediation up there and wouldn't talk about the job. Wonder if that was the place.
Where can we get one?
Some levels are used as a museum, others are too deteriorated to be open to visitors. My father worked there, in the mid 50's, as a Radar Operator, for the missiles (Bo-Mark). He was a Flight Sargent.
not being used but there was fresh tire tracks going in and out the entrance?Huh
Could put hundreds from the tent cities in there to live
LOL...I never thought Id see tent Mf'in city's here, but alas, I was wrong again. Worthington and Metcalfe right? Meth Zombies/Thieves is what they are.
I just left town because of the drug problem on second and wyld.
@Chris Pacheco I am a 1st nations people. So what does that mean? Im curious. What do 1st Nations people need that we already do not have?
Something similar under Val Cartier. Went in but didn't get to see much or go very far. Everything was off limits almost instantly despite being told it was decomissioned. Rumours were there were tunnels linking all the way back to Ottawa. I highly doubt there's any truth to that but if it is I'd bet all of these bunkers are linked. That'd be something else.
Haha, our sad little ski hill made an appearance 😂 Love living in North Bay ❤️
went down that sad little ski jump in grade 5 on a toboggan.
Lived to tell the tale.
Our ski hill is where the hole is
@@rileysampson1586 Where? Left, right, top bottom. I've lived there all my life and never seen it before.
My Dad was a Senior Weapon's Director in the Hole for a few years. Been down myself several times.
My friend's dad worked there in 1976 , he called it "Sage" or something like that.
I live like 5 minutes from this picture
Same here.
When I first saw him walking I thought he was Mike Brewer from Wheeler Dealers :P
Canada should recommission its bunkers. Nuclear war is our greatest threat today.
#1 threat now is human stupidity, destroying this world in so many other ways.
@COASTA LOECSTA Haha! Snoooooowflake! awww, whatsamatta, Orange man Bad again? Leave to a stupid liberal to interject TDS into a normal conversation. This is why normal people despise liberals. You cannot see anything past your politics and leftist leanings. Idiot. You libtards make me laugh. Boo! Scared? soyboy...lol
@COASTA LOECSTA Not that I think much of Trump but Obama did give North Korea a Green light to build Nukes by doing nothing, in fact North Korea perfected their Nukes while Obama was President. But I can tell beyond a shadow of a doubt you are quite happy that North Korea has Nukes.
This has been common knowledge to me since I was six. It helped that my father was a Cliff Clayvin of types. I had friends that worked there. Painters that would be blindfolded to go to the next room.
Super cool to see. Not a lot of Soviet/Cold War installations left in the Americas.
I grow up there my dad worked in the hole
At some point there was a conspiracy theory? And when did people start to know about the blue room? ... Im writing a black novel based on north bay in 1995.
Cracked me up they showed a robbie r22 helicopter doing a training flight with a student pilot when mentioning heavy military presence LOL sure guys, and the kids on the scooters over there are the men in black!
Well if its closed they should set it up to do tours or make use of it
Is it abandoned or is there still military there and can civilians go there without getting in trouble
It's decomissioned but off limits due to being hazardous
Love how this guy seems to think there is a conspiracy that its some secret base. Lol
@@MrBilld75 Bill, its still a NORAD installation man. Air Weapons too. They just moved it all to the surface. That is why you see that entire area now behind barbed wire, sensors and guard shacks. That used to be wide open, except for the North Portal entrance. We used to sneak up there when we were teenagers and got beer out of the vending machines in the Barrack Buildings. LOL!
I grew up there. Had to leave to find work, because like he said it is now a retirement town! Sad 😞 I really enjoyed watching this and seeing my hometown in video form. Everyone new someone that worked in the hole or the underground complex when I was growing up. It was a major military place then. Now not so much.
This is my home town/where I live lmao This underground base is literally 5 minutes away from my house.
Go there. Cut the lock. Let us know what is inside.
we scuba dived in front of it...Trout Lake...in the 90s...huge water pipe 45 or 50 feet below...4 to 5 feet in diameter...probably sewage pipe...wonder how treated it was back in the day.
That pipe is actually the old North Bay drinking water intake pipe, it brought water to the treatment plant. The new one is right across the bay from the old one now. I dived there too.
Hello. The Underground Complex has its own sewage system, that (back then, and still does today) collected the sewage and transferred it into the normal City of North Bay system. As for the water, to give you an idea of how forward-thinking the planners were back then (the Underground Complex was built between August 1959 and September 1963): the complex took (and still takes) in water from Trout Lake primarily to cool the site, to counter the enormous amount of heat produced by the computers and electronics (no longer exist). Sort of like a car's radiator, pipes of water throughout the Underground Complex absorbed the heat. Then the water was sent to our Power Cavern, the life support facility in the complex, where it was filtered and chilled, then transferred to the the hill beside Trout Lake. The water ran down the slope and re-entered the lake; when it arrived it was clean and within a degree or two of the lake's temperature--therefore didn't have a harmful effect on the ecology. Cheers. Doug Newman, Wing Heritage Officer, 22 Wing/Canadian Forces Base North Bay.