Replacing My Car Battery with Capacitors! 12V BoostPack Update
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ต.ค. 2024
- Testing to see if capacitors can make a traditional 12V battery obsolete. Plus an update on the original BoostPack.
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I've been a mechanic all my life and would have never thought of something like this, I'm very impressed and for those asking what the point of it is, now that I think about it, there can be a tremendous amount of applications for something like this heck you may even be able to run your homes electrical needs and even get completely off the grid which is what I think I'm going to attempt, this has given me all kinds of ideas, THANKS !!!
Made one of these today with 4x LiFePO4 25650 batteries in parallel and my car starts perfect! Thanks for the inspiration
Your best bet is to have a supercap pack in parallel with the battery so that the peak current comes from caps and the bulk storage comes from the caps. In really cold conditions lead acid batteries don't crank well, but the supercaps MIGHT be better (check the specs)
Mate, I've been watching your videos now and then for the past 8 years first in Canada and now back home in Mexico.
You are a true inspiration now that I live in Mexico I'm. Looking for a solution for rural communities where there is not a lot of money flowing or reliable infrastructure and your videos inspire me a lot.
Thanks a lot for all your hard work and research keep it up man.
love the natural environment around there.
Those lil' capacitors can do amazing things, especially when you combine them with something else (like your hybrid comment). That was a quick start, good job!
that voltage meter and cap pack combo would also work great to find power draining issues, the cap will drain much quicker than batteries and charge right back up so you could isolate the issue easier
I like the chickens in the background. I always come back to this video, just because of the chicken.
King Parodije i like those chicken rather than his capacitors.
you can actually make a coil out of aluminum and some speakers with a few resistors and harness the chickens cluck to charge the capacitors.
Can't agree more with you
Whenever I watch this video, I think of minecraft.
🍻
i think one of the benifits of this would be in an emergency. imagine you hook up a hand powered charger... turn it for about 10 minutes, get enough charge to turn your engine over. with a normal battery, you would be hand charging for 4 hours.
Almost word for word what I was going to post! Wonder where we can find a 12v hand charger?
@@garychandler4296 wimshurst generator!
To be honest, unless the battery has been severely discharged you could likely use the battery itself get the energy required. A moderately discharged battery has a lot of energy, it just can't be discharged rapidly enough to start the motor. There are commercial solutions that do this
Or solar charger.
@@GoogleDoesEvil i know
This could be a nice "if all else fails" solution. You know, have a small hand cranked generator in the toolbox and you can have cranking power anywhere. In a minute or two you can have enough juice to have another try at starting the engine.
It only needs as much energy as i can create by pushing the car really hard for 10-20 seconds. It would just be so much less painful if i could crank the generator for 2-5 minutes without much effort.
Also something to consider: This thing at full charge stores about as much energy as half of a AA battery... So having something like two backup 9v batterys in the car for the event of a battery drain, you might not even have to use the generator at all!
A 1 watt solar panel would need like 1,5 hour to charge this thing from empty to full too...
Incredible.
I'm amazed what can be accomplished with the low resistance of capacitors. While batteries handle the main storage.
I also had the handcrank idea, after finding one on Amazon, when I remembered this video for an off-roading channel. But I think, whether its a starter motor pack, or a homemade EV. Batteries & capacitors should always be together. From tiny batteries like you suggested to charge cranking caps in an emergency. To a battery pack the same size or bigger then a capacitor pack, to get more performance out of an EV, then batteries alone.
There's a reason car batteries haven't been commercially replaced by capacitors and the reason is capacitors don't hold a large charge for a long time. The car battery will hold a charge so if you don't start your car for a couple of weeks it will still start. Try that with the capacitor pack.
Exact !!
Ya he says that in the video around 4:20. No scam here.
You could put a solar panel on the roof to keep the cap full.
plus caps cant handle the high frequency current from the alternator, some day they will break (or leak)
While the engine is running you could charge the capacitors by using thermo peltier modules mounted on the engine block with a heat sink might even work better in the winter.
I just wanted to mention that I love your channel. I discovered it many years ago. I have a video about super capacitors and calculator solar panels that you were a direct inspiration for. Keep up the good work.
You should put a small solar panel on the roof of the car that way when you go out in the morning the capacitors will stay fully charged ALL the time!!!
Shoe Box look at his engine bay, and paint... That thing sits outside
@@Hayden_Martin540 the car sits and holds enough charge to start up after a weekend. A trickle charge from a small panel will only help it, theres lots of sun... same people that say Tesla vehicles wont work in Canada because it's too cold. I see them every day now.
How much money would a capacitor-based car battery save you?
An often-quoted number is that hauling 100lbs around in your car adds 1% to fuel consumption. If you remove a 30lb battery then you save 0.3% of your fuel bill. If you are spending $50 per week on fuel (the average for Australian drivers), this adds up to $2600 per year. 0.3% of $2600 is $7.80 per year in reduced weight leading to better fuel economy.
Capacitors can be recharged hundreds of thousands (to millions) of times, unlike lead-acid car batteries which will be dead after one (or two) thousand cycles (at the most). If you replace your lead-acid car battery every 4 years, you would have to change the equivalent capacitor-based car battery every 400-4,000 years. So, in effect, you would never need to replace it (nor would your children, or their children, or their children...). Since a car battery might cost you about $100 every four years, you are spending $25 per year on lead-acid car batteries.
A capacitor-based car battery would thus save you $25 + $7.80 = $32.80 (on lead-acid battery replacement costs and in improved fuel economy) each and every year.
Over the course of a 50-year driving career (20-70), you will have saved 50 * 32.80 = $1,640. If, on each anniversary of installing the capacitor-based battery, you added the $32.80 you just saved in the previous year into a bank account earning 5% interest, when you retire from driving you would have about $6,900 sitting in the account. Give the battery (and the account) to a grand-child and get them to do the same, and they would retire from driving with $85,600 in the bank. If your grand-child does the same thing, then your great-great grand-child will retire from driving, with the exact same battery, 150 years after after you built it, with $989,000 in the bank... Great-great grand-dad sure was a smart fella.
Moving away from lead-acid batteries makes sound financial sense, provided you think ahead far enough.
Compounding interest is a beautiful thing.
There is but one catch, inflation.
Regardless, it will make sense even when accounted for. Not just lead batteries will be gone for many applications but the internal combustion engine itself which is in no way as efficient as an electric engine. The only thing that fossil fuel still has going on for it is the energy density, that will need not be equaled, just be good enough. When 300 miles range worth of batteries become cheap enough, it will be game over.
In theory you are right, but knowing kids.....it won't reach the $20.000. They want cars, ipots, tablets ect. ect. That money is gone on the moment it hits their hands. But on it self i find it a great idea, an other plus point is that high capacitors are loaded in a minute, where a lead accu can charge for hours.
P
Great logic.
That little Scion has very little parasitic draw, still amazing the voltage drop was so low with that set of caps.
No hesitation for such a little guy, exciting experiments and 'all the videos that you make'.
"Sir, where is the battery? And why is there a sock?"
"what u mean, it's winter"
@whitebird77 Nope. Drier in the winter actually.
You don't have 350 farads, you have 58.33333.
You don't have 2600 Farads, you have 433.33333.
When you put capacitors in series, you lose capacitance. When they're all the same value, the calculation is simple and you can just divide the value of one cap by the number of caps you have in series. if using different values in combination, it's slightly more complicated.
finally a good explanation :)
Capacitance adds in parallel, and reciprocates in series, correct?
Exact
How do you calculate the joules/Wh capacity?
@mikokuijn I believe the energy stored in a capacitor is 0.5*C*V^2
God I miss fresh farm eggs, way better than store bought.
Yeah and no hormones in the eggs like store bought.
Henry Lee Nobody gives hormones to egg laying chickens, factory farmed or not. That "hormone free label" on chicken eggs is silliness. Might as well have a "these chicken eggs are plutonium free!" label too. That being said, free range chickens make tastier eggs then factory farmed eggs. Better diet.
Spongiform Now you've gone and done it! There'll be "plutonium free" eggs hitting supermarket shelves any day now.
i agree
That's brilliant, I like how it doesn't even budge the scale either.
i bet these eggs are tastier than the eggs from a store
and also great expirience with the capacitors.
feels like it would be a good idea to add some of these capacitors to a regular car battery at winter time so you will have more power for your starter since batteries are losing their capacity when it's cold
I am using capacitors for my 2004 Mazda 3 since about 2 years and it's a perfect replacement. My capacitors can run the starter for about 22~25 seconds which is more than enough if everything with the car is just fine. Just don't forget to turn of the lights and the radio. I also got an small 12volt UPS battery which I'm using to recharge the capacitors in case there is no enough energy. Not a perfect solution but hey it works and it's cheap :)
Please, I understand that super capacitors can continue to increase in voltage. Therefore, could someone use a voltage protection system with the capacitors when installed for such usage?
@@ejeckamdaniel1562 I use a voltmeter for the cigarette lighter slot to track the voltage and they never exceed 14.5V. When I connect the car to OBD sometimes it gives High Battery Voltage trouble code but no damage yet. Even if something happens I don't care, this car costs only $1500 in second hand market.
Learning about all this.
So far I've come to the conclusion that a battery alone isn't enough. And super capacitors alone aren't enough
But having both in a hybrid system makes a excellent system.
They support each other! And make a longer life system.
Well. Batteries aren't really optimal for providing huge bursts of power, and capacitors alone don't provide enough in terms of voltage (which can be an issue if you have a chipped key security). Car batteries can obviously fill the role alone, but it comes at the expense of longetivity, and (usable) capacity. Not to mention that the power will fluctuate a lot, and there is quite a bit of energy lost whenever the energy goes from electric to chemical and back to electric. It seems best to get the capacitors to consolidate short term energy storage. While using the battery to provide long term power; for keeping the capacitors charged, and when the engine isn't running
Hey nice work in making this video. Please tell us how long they last. A year or two years. If we use 3 times daily to slef start
I finally build 2 bank of these and it start my car without hesitation.... thanks for ur inspiration. Currently I connect parallel to my existing battery.
Thats gr8, the car manufacturers should have that with a solar panel (as you said).
he should take the seats and steering wheel out to shave a few pounds off
This could be a game changer. If you threw a small AGM or SLA 12v battery on there (something that float charges well, ie not lithium) it would be pretty reliable and quickly recharge with most alternators. It might not make a big deal for small cars, but batteries for larger trucks that require really high CCAs can get pretty expensive (and are super heavy).
You have only 2-3? chances to start your car. Then they must recharge. Because these capacitors give much power for a little time, and drains so quickly. I wish you luck, if you are in the middle of Texas desert.:)
I don't know how well it starts cars, but it sure does attract chickens! You installed the first one.. one chicken appeared. You modified it.. 3 chickens. After installing the big one and letting it sit for the weekend, it slowly attracted a half-dozen of them! Farmers would *love* this thing! Who knew chickens were attracted to capacitors!
Impressive since the capacitor bank is rated 16.2V / 58 Farads.
which are just 2Wh total, when the coltage drops to zero. Traditional lead acid 12V 55Ah battery has 660Wh
These are 350F caps, all in series so 1/(6/350F)=125/3=42F in total.
With a total voltage of 2.5*6=15V (Maybe one cap bust).
Typical start up current (Which varies with temperature) is about 200A, equivalent to a resistance of 12/200=60mR.
Therefore the time taken to discharge to 0.63& of 15V is around (0.06*42=2.52sec), ot sure on the time taken to start a car but guess a second?, so good for around 3 starts?.
(6) 350F caps in series is 58F.
electronicsNmore 350/6, which is indeed 58.3333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333 lol
John Siviter
You forgot to include leakage. Capacitors are not perfect and leak over time.
Using capacitors to start your vehicle is actually really cool. The problem (which you noted) is that they don't hold a charge over extended periods of time, which is why you can't realistically replace a car battery with them. Now if you could do a capacitor with a small battery combination, which would extend the charge of the capacitors over a longer period of time, that might be an actual replacement for the big clunky battery.
The "weekend" test was rather interesting. Monday morning the voltage was pretty close to being into a no-start situation. I'm sure temperature would play a large role in the ability of the capacitors to survive the weekend. Specifically in the winter with -20 to -40 degree temps (where I live) I would expect the capacitors to discharge much faster.
+1
Yep, and forget about sitting in the car with the radio on w/o it running! I do like the idea of using a Li-on pack for extended storage and the caps for cold cranking amps. Of course it'd probably cost you as much as a lead acid battery, but it would be significantly lighter!
cap in parallel with a battery would create an RC circuit where the cap would deplete the battery, which acts as a resistive load for the capacitor. This combo would increase the CCA of your battery but would also drain your battery when left unattended.
What you could do is put a relay that is run by the ignition between the cap and the battery to separate the two when the ignition is off.
squee222 I thought about doing that with my set up. I ended up not doing it because with the caps disconnected from the battery they can discharge down to 0 volts. When the relay turns on it's like a dead short on the battery.
Gaming With ViperZeroOne Ok now what happens if you hook up a float charger to maintain the charge. If it works there go the negatives about a battery lasting weeks. solar power or ac home power?
Capacitor can only hold electricity for a while. It accepts quick charge and quick release of electricity. A battery can hold the charge for a much much longer time. that is why our camera flash use a capacitor that takes power from battery for 4 to 5 sec and it can burst out all of that power in a single flash. but the charge of the capacitor usually hold for a very very short time. My car has a 21v capacitor that store energy when braking, the power from it can supply the car's AC and electronics stuffs, also help charging the battery. but even it is fully charged, the capacitor will completely empty in 1 hr. i know it as the manual said that it is safe to do battery swap after an hr to let the capacitor fully empty on its own.
Quiscent current is a concern. Modern cars draw a tiny amount of current. Solar panel with 12v 50ma rating should counter that.
Godbless the human sense of " trying it " and spirit of being curious, it got us a car that runs on water, the metal alloy that can use heat differential to rotate a crank, etc
Nice video. Just one quick correction, you don't have 350F there, when you install capacitors in series, you get double the voltage and half of the capacitance. Which means that now instead of 2.5V and 350F, you have 2.5 x 6 = 15V and 350 / 6 = 58.33F. Which stills pretty good by the way. Can you make a video trying to start the car a few times in a row? With the coils disconnected or something, to prevent the car to start-up, just to see how long the caps are gonna last. Thanks!
You are wrong. it would be 15v @ 350 farads. Just like batteries in series.
No he is right, 6 capacitors in series with 350Farad is: 1 / (1/350)*6 = 58.33 F and 2.5 x 6 = 15 Volt.
@@tripelbier7335 Capacitance is relative to voltage and your calculus is assuming the voltage per capacitor is being cut by a fraction, for instance if i put a bulb in series with the capacitor to charge it using constant current until it reaches full voltage it will run for x time, if you set the voltage at half then the bulb will run x/2 time providing half the current and therefore providing half discharge. I hope you understand that.
@@tripelbier7335 i can't edit, but i meant the full current for half the time in the end. You learned following an example of a series capacitor on the same source voltage, not a varying voltage, if you had y capacitors and didn't change the voltage then you would be right, but that only applies mostly to electronics where you'd want to condition a signal on a power rail that doesn't change voltage.
Shouldn't they be wired parallel?
That's great experiment. So meaning to say that caps are doing some way near to a car battery. Hope they will become good with passage of time.
Looks like a good idea for racing application.
+Andrew Kammerer its not the caps will dischage in 5-10min
Awe bummer
Andrew Kammerer yeah thats why caps arent used for energy storage just for smothing out ripple and for filters and stuff
If you mean for starting a petrol engine, then yes. or a very short electric race :) 100m uphill dash etc.
+Crusty Gronk Okay, now I'm confused. Where/when/or how did Andrew Kammerer state this would not work? All I find is him making a comment that this would work great in a race application. That doesn't mean he thinks it won't work on a street vehicle.
This is my first lesson on capacitors. And yours is way better then any battery
I can't help but notice how close the positive an negative terminals.
Hope you have spanners made of rubber ;O)
A mini boost pack would be great to have in the trunk as an emergency backup!
joedanero Its 14ish volts, wont kill you but could cause a fire if it shorts so that's the precaution you have to take if you have one.
***** The rate of cap discharge makes it even more scary. Cool project, but nothing auto engineers haven't thought of.
joedanero Exactly... Caps have almost no internal resistance (unlike a battery). Once the contacts are shorted, they release ALL of their energy almost instantaneously. Big capacitors will kill you quick.
joedanero same thing can happen with a regular battery, but someone can build a special case to protect the boost pack and his terminals
ScopedPewPew You have no idea about the electric. And im not gonna ask you which capacitors can kill you. Because you dont care about the volt and amps. You just care about the discharge. And that means nothing without the capacity of them. Finally those capacitors as you see in the video CANT kill a person. And watchout your words when arguing someone who knows better than you.
no way we're gonna get us back to 1985 with that one, doc. that might work on YOUR capacitor, but that ain't gonna put a dent in the FLUX CAPACITOR.
we're gonna need a shit ton more batteries to get up to 1.21 gigawatts
Good thing that the metal scale stand didn't shortcut the small pack. The paint was intact.
I have been using one in my car for about 4 months now. Regular car battery is totally removed. Did this to save weight and increase fuel mileage. This is not for everybody.
Downside: 1. Engine must be running to operate any electrics (radio, lights etc. ) or else capacitors will drain very quickly. 2. When you shut off the engine, all electrics must also be disabled or else capacitors will be dead by the morning. I installed a 40 amp relay and ran all my electrics through it. When I turn off the key, it turns off all electrics. This also insures that, if you forget to turn off your headlights, they go off automatically. 3. Your engine must be in good running order and start right up.
It only takes about 40 seconds to totally recharge, if the capacitors go dead. So, just to make sure I am not left stranded, I bought a small 12v battery, off Ebay for $15, and keep it behind my drivers seat.. The main benefits to using a capacitor is, 1. better fuel economy,. 2. much easier to work on my car now that the regular battery is no longer in the engine compartment and 3. I do not have to replace the battery as often. The capacitor battery is suppose to last for a least 10,000 starts. The increased gas mileage will pay for the battery and more.
The weather finally got done to 22 degrees and I was able to test it's cold start capacity. My car started right up. I have the 300 cold crank version and live in the mountains of North Carolina. If it gets really cold where you live, go with the 600 amp version. I bought mine, already built, on Ebay for $100, shipped to my door.
Again, I do not recommend this set up unless you are into innovation and do all the work on your vehicle. I have a 1993, Geo Metro, and with modifications like this, I have increased my mileage from 45 mpg, hwy, to 75 mpg.
PS: I have a motto, : Those that can, do. Those that can't, complain about those that can.
Great write up enjoyed reading this!
This info is from the internet a university site!
I haven't copied it all.
BU-209: How does a Supercapacitor Work?
Discover how the supercapacitor can enhance the battery.
The supercapacitor, also known as ultracapacitor or double-layer capacitor, differs from a regular capacitor in that it has very high capacitance. A capacitor stores energy by means of a static charge as opposed to an electrochemical reaction. Applying a voltage differential on the positive and negative plates charges the capacitor. This is similar to the buildup of electrical charge when walking on a carpet. Touching an object releases the energy through the finger.
There are three types of capacitors and the most basic is the electrostatic capacitor with a dry separator. This original capacitor has very low capacitance and is used to filter signals and tune radio frequencies. The size ranges from a few pico-farads (pf) to low microfarad (μF).
The electrolytic capacitor provides more farads and these larger units are used for filtering, buffering and signal coupling. Rated in microfarads (μF), this capacitor has several thousand times the storage capacity of the electrostatic capacitor and uses a moist separator. The third type is the supercapacitor, rated in farads, which is thousands of times higher than the electrolytic capacitor. The supercapacitor is used for energy storage undergoing frequent charge and discharge cycles at high current and short duration.
Farad is a unit of capacitance named after the English physicist Michael Faraday. One farad stores one coulomb of electrical charge when applying one volt. One microfarad is one million times smaller than a farad, and one pico-farad is again one million times smaller than the microfarad.
Engineers at General Electric first experimented with an early version of supercapacitor in 1957, but there were no known commercial applications. In 1966, Standard Oil rediscovered the effect of the double-layer capacitor, which makes the supercapacitor work, by accident while working on experimental fuel cell designs. The company did not commercialize the invention but licensed it to NEC, which in 1978 marketed the technology as “supercapacitor” for computer memory backup. It was not until the 1990s that advances in materials and manufacturing methods led to improved performance and lower cost.
The supercapacitor has evolved and crosses into battery technology by using special electrodes and electrolyte. While the basic Electrochemical Double Layer Capacitor (EDLC) depends on electrostatic action, the Asymmetric Electrochemical Double Layer Capacitor (AEDLC) uses battery-like electrodes to gain higher energy density, but this is affected by a shorter cycle life and other burdens shared with the battery. Graphene electrodes promise improvements with supercapacitors and batteries but such development is 15 years away.
Several types of electrodes have been tried and most are based on the electrochemical double-layer capacitor concept, which is carbon-based, has an organic electrolyte that is easy to manufacture and is the most common system in use today.
All capacitors have voltage limits. While the electrostatic capacitor can be made to withstand high volts, the supercapacitor is confined to 2.5-2.7V. Voltages of 2.8V and higher are possible but they reduce the service life. To get higher voltages, several supercapacitors are connected in series. Serial connection reduces the total capacitance and increases the internal resistance. Strings of more than three capacitors require voltage balancing to prevent any cell from going into over-voltage. Lithium-ion batteries share a similar protection circuit.
Love the farm animals in the back ground saying "Don't do it it's a trick!" What does this do for the charging system strategies? How about baseline reference voltages. It's your car good luck, we will be watching with interest. You may want to buy an extra fire extinguisher.
Your experiments contribute to make the tech education more affordable in times when the Superior educational system is ripping off our students. I made two 3D printers, one prosthetic hand and two 3D printed drones (including a DJI Inspire clone). All that information including the .stl files for 3D printing where gathered by me from Open Sources around the world. I don't even have an electronics degree. I wish there were more people like you.
I think that the people don't know that the batteries are just big capacitors , having exact same behavior on same dimensions/capacity. Guys, don't discuss about this, the differences between capacitors and batteries are coming from their fabrication technology.
Capacitors :1 F = 1 s4·A2·m−2·kg−1 = 1A*1s/1V so for 2 V (14V-12 V interval) you need 2 F just to have 1A current during second.
Car battery: 100 A·h can deliver 5 A over a 20-hour period at room temperature for same 14V-12V interval..
Let to discuss about 55Ah common car battery. Normal voltage for charging is 13.5 V maximum 14 V and the lower limit is 12 V so you have 2 Volts potential difference to work. 55Ah means 2.75 A in 20h. To obtain equivalent capacity from capacitors you need 2.75A*20*3600s for each volt so result is multiplied with 2. Result? 2.75*20*3600*2= 396000 F (Farads)
In this movie we see 6*350F=2100 F which is 200 times lower capacity of the car battery.
What means this? Simple. You can start your engine with a capacitors module, but just if everything is perfect and you are sure the engine will start from first attempt. Don't expect to have energy remains for the second try...or let calculate: starting current is 20A so you need 20*2=40F just to have energy for a second. 2100F (total)/ 40 F => 53 s of full functionality. Not too bad but sure not to change the car battery. So ...
Car battery is strong recommended, you can have a capacitor module just to help the battery or to start cars with depleted batteries. Don't forget: car alarm and other electrical devices have working nonstop so capacitors will be depleted if you don't start engine often...
Except capacitors store energy in an electric field and batteries store it in chemical changes. So batteries are capacitors kind of like a moped is just a big bicycle. :)
capacitors do not generate power through chemical interaction (bi-metal plates and acid as the electrolitic acid) capacitors simply store electrical potential on its plates and in no way generate potential.
Batteries are the opposite of a capacitor in other words. They are not the same thing. One stores and one generates. This is basic electronics my friend.
Cool video. I'll keep my lead acid battery though. If your alternator quits when you're 30 minutes from home, a healthy lead acid will get you there. The super caps will leave you stranded.
Joe S maybe, maybe not.
True joe
Joe S actually the spark plugs require much less than 12 volts and
just a few milliamps to keep the plugs sparking and engine running .
Electronic ignition requires about 1 amp per 1000 rpm. Fuel pump draws about 3 - 5 amps, not sure about variable pressure pumps. Don't know how much the engine computer needs.
great job. try it when the engine is cold on a cold day and let us know
And after being parked for a week or so.
That's because the capacitors store power that's coming from the alternator, the battery in a car is used only to crank the engine, you can turn on a car and remove the battery with the car still on and the engine will keep going unless you have a bad alternator, basically the alternator runs all the juice in the car not the battery nor capacitor pack for this matter.
No, no, no, you need FLUX CAPACITORS! Not just regular ones!
+ecwinste Flux Capacitors are so 1980's.
+StepBackAndThink But it's acceptable in 2010's too !
+ecwinste And don't forget to get some back up gasoline and two vials of Plutonium for the round trip.
Good news oreily's has them they're just out of stock
www.oreillyauto.com/flux-capacitor
@plum 1977 But that's not what capacitors are for there is no CCA. Try that shit in Michigan in January.
I suspect you get a very high spike of charge current in your alternator right after starting. That's probably going to kill your alternator eventually.
+shodanxx Nice catch, but Alternators are self current limiting.
Alternator can only output certain amount of current per RPM even if you omit voltage regulator alltogether, so even if it maxes current in exciter wiring it will not generate more than it is possible for a cold idle speed, probably 20-40A at 12V
So you could basically short circuit an alternator (for the time it takes to charge these) without damaging the alternator ?
shodanxx It isn't a dead short, you still have like 8-9 V left in this capacitors. It is that full 9V going to the exciter wiring (I may be using wrong term, but it is this wiring in alternator that goes to the rotor so it generates rotating magnetic field). But answering your question - It won't damage alternator if you spin it slowly and for limited time. It is the same reason why when you jump start other car you shouldn't rev your car, but it will survive at idle. At high RPM alternator is capable of generating tons of amps if system voltage drops (when you crank the other car), but you may fry the diodes, voltage regulator, or - best case - alternator fuse..
mibars This is not correct. First, the lower voltage caps (after cranking) do have a very low series resistance even though the voltage may be 8-9 volts as you say. This is, in effect, no different than a dead short. If the alternator wants to put out 14 vols and the caps are at 9 volts, with very little ohms it is still a high load current (with no other current limiting). 5 volts across .01 ohms would still be a zillion amps (500).
...
HOWEVER, Alternators are naturally current limiting.They do not just keep increasing current into low R load. It will charge the caps at its max current capability. There is nothing wrong with revving your engine while jumping another car because of this. I've done it all the time over many years.
HOWEVER, it is ALWAYS better to run the good car for a several minutes to get some charge into the dead battery so it can help with cranking.
--
Regards, ScienceAdvisorSteve
I'd like to buy a chicken from you
On a second thought .I'll trade you a chicken for a supercapacitor
yeah ride the bus for free on new years lol
You are the hero we all need!
Apply this to eBikes as either regenerative braking or a secondary 48-52 volt power source.
Build a kit and we will come! I see a simple friction brake as the easy path.
Be careful of how low the voltage gets - as volts gets lower amperage will rise to compensate. It will take a toll on the regulator of your alternator and your computer of the car too
Low end lead-acid car battery
= 12V x 24 Amp Hours.
= 0.15 cubic foot
= 18 lbs
= $65
Lead acid cannot be discharged below 1/3 (33.3%) without damaging battery.
Therefore effective amp hour ~= 16 Amp Hour @ 12V.
============
Compared with
============
12 V x 1 amp hour
= 5 x 2.4V (overvoltaged at 2.7V) x 3600 amp seconds
= 5 x 3600 x {1 Farad 2.7V boostcaps}
= 36 x { 500 F 2.7V boostcaps}
That is presuming we overcome the series capacitance being reduced by using a regulator/switching circuit.
12V @ 16 Amp hour
= 36 x 16 x { 500 F 2.7V boostcaps}
= 576 { 500 F 2.7V boostcaps}
= 576 x 0.0028 cubic ft + spacing allowances ~= 576 x 0.003
~= 1.73 cubic ft
= 576 x 0.15 lbs
= 5.4 lbs + 2 lbs of harnessing frame + 1 lb of charging/discharging regulator / switcher
= 8.4 lbs
= 576 x $15
= $864 + $50? homemade regulator / switcher + $?? homemade frame.
Without the regulator / switcher, you would have to multiply the number of boostcaps by 5, which would make your supercapacitor battery-replacement array heavier than the battery being replaced. Not to mention the size.
The regulator would be a 2.4 V - 12V step-up / step-down charge / discharge. Efficiency of regulator = 90% ? at most ?? So you have to add 10%, 15% more boostcaps to compensate.
The alternative without the efficiency loss is an intelligent parallel/series charge/discharge switching circuit.
Also, you SHOULD NOT charge boostcaps in series without a balancing circuit across them, to ensure their 2.7V individual threshold is not violated. The balancing circuit will cost you either efficiency (passive cct) or extra money (active circuit).
You seem to be oblivious, not only to the reduction in capacitance but also to the damage you are risking in charging the supercaps, when placed in series.
Hours of happiness constructing an expensive over-sized battery replacement = priceless.
Damage due to charging boostcaps in series = ???
=====================
Now compare with $350, 150 Amp Hour, 100 lb, 0.75 cubic ft high end battery.
Cynthia Avishegnath Thanks Cynthia for going in more detail regarding supercapacitors. I would like to know more about supercapacitors, and capacitors in general, can you please explain in more detail how a switching circuit overcomes the series capacitance issue? Is there any reference on the net where I can read more about the theory of this? Thanking you, Martin "That is presuming we overcome the series capacitance being reduced by using a regulator/switching circuit".
Martin Poljansek
For non-passive voltage balancing, you need a circuit that would differentiate between incoming charge and outgoing discharge, such that it would switch to splitting the incoming ~12V for charging individuals at ~2.4V, and which would then switch to parallel 5-in-series bank when discharging.
There is possibility where not all the 5-in-series banks are charged equivalently, so that they would not be discharging at the same voltage.
Therefore, you may need a diode at each of bank, to prevent flowback charging on a lower voltage bank, exerted by the other banks.
Let's see the complexity of the requirements of the charger/controller.
- Allow simultaneously having low threshold banks that are charging and high threshold banks that are discharging.
- Determine a bank is either at low or high threshold
- Sense the current power drain to whether switch more than one bank for discharge.
- Distribute the charging and discharging evenly, to distribute the life span fatigue evenly. Or not, so that you get to expire and replace one bank at a time.
Supercaps/boostcaps are not real capacitors. They are dry electrolytic batteries that behave as unidirectional capacitors. Therefore, they do not have the charge-discharge lifespan of real capacitors.
Why not use a million supercaps while at it, you'd get a much more compelling case that way.
Cynthia Avishegnath if your ever in Ft Myers Fl look me up
Are you currently investing into any time into Nikola Tesla's or Stanley Meyers' work, Cynthia? Type into youtube "Water powered truck" and "water powered dune buggy" to find what I'm talking about. I think with your smarts, you should be able to figure things out. I however, am dumbed down in a way, only focusing on Health and Food, longevity. If you'd like me to share information with you, and vice versa. Let's talk.
Manual crank armature coil for cold starts. A few pumps and you can be recharged.
Why not just put the crank back on the engine ?
Anyone here ever hand crank an engine ?
not a modern hi-compression v-8! lol (old low-comp l-4 tractors, yes....)
This is actually a really cool idea. For a car in good shape, I would love to be able to have the option of having something light like this perhaps with the small LiIon helper for when you want to run the radio or let the car sit at the airport for a week, etc. Great video.
Where the hell are you, Jurassic Park?!
Don't leave the radio or lights on 😉 when you park up 😉
That's what I was wondering. Is there the capacity of a regular battery?
Regular lead acid battery is the equal of a room full of capacitors.
I did the mathematics in my reply above. 4,800kg of capacitors for one 12kg lead acid battery.
Simon Howes thanks dude
Next step: More super caps, remove engine and drive on starter. Next, upgrade alternator, and drive for free forevermore.
You sir have just invented the infinity motor.
lmao
Better than an Infiniti motor.
+Hopelessand Forlorn or a Ford engine
+Hopelessand Forlorn dynamo wheels generate electricity :O just came up with that idea
Love the chooks noise. Farmyards rock!
Great idea but won't fly. Let me tell ya why. First off your car better be in tip top shape cause if ya don't get it the first shot you might not get a second. Next what are you going to do when you are on the highway and BOOM! your alternator dies on you? How far do you think you are going to get? 2 seconds is how far. Don't sit and listen to your radio cause now your stuck. When you have the blower on high at night with the headlights on you sometimes need a battery to handle the extra power required. So think first before you dive into this idea.
I totally agree with you. I have had a few times when I had to drive many miles with the alternator dead, and luckily I made it somewhere so I wasn't stranded.
You did not video the most important part -- the voltage during/after cranking!
It's a great shame that people don't do the basic calculations of the energy involved in so many experiments like these. Car batteries are needed because they provide much more energy headroom for ensuring the extra energy needed to maintain power to the alarm system, remote lock when the car is parked and for starting an engine in freezing weather.
Ah, but something built before all that stuff, like for instance a weekend racer, or a sports car with no need for luxury stuff this would make sense.
Jay Simons You're right...but that auto tranny Scion is definitely not a racer ,even if you take some 30 pounds off it...
Jay Simons People just need to understand that there is a huge difference in the energy output of these caps vs. a lead battery. 6 batteries of 350 Farads of 2.5 Volts hold the energy of 6562 Joules assuming the starter could actually use it all. Considering that the starter won't actually run as the voltage drops below perhaps 6 Volts, you end up with only 2300 Joules or so. That is 0.66 Watt-Hour.
Your current car battery might have an energy of,ONE THOUSAND times more. Thus, starting your car on these capacitors is somewhat a luck depending on your car engines willingness to get running in one attempt quickly. If you want a stressing experience using your car, go for it.
I showed my cousin who has an Rx7 he uses as a weekend racer, I think we will give it a shot with that since it has no radio just lights and computer for the EFI.
Jay Simons LOL, just remember not to turn on the light without the motor running :-)
I love the way you wrap it in a socks! And the chickens are nice!! Great one, keep it up!!
In the 1940s a 1 Farad capacitor was as big as a bedroom in your house.
And yet, oddly enough, they managed to make electric cars long before that
Not true, supercaps exist since 1950s
Don't be surprised, I can start my Expedition with a Ryobi screw gun
The fact that you can turn anything with a ryobi is impressive given my personal experiences with them lol. But im not the luckiest person either lol
30 lbs shaved off my race car!Yeaaaas!Cheap af too!
There exist 12volt handcrank generators, you can use to recharge this pure pack, without a backup little batrery to maintain the 12v. This pack by itself, would be so great for a traditional motorcycle thats used frequently.
I'm excited for the acceleration & Regen posiblities using a big capacitor battery pack in a homemade electric motorcycle. Batteries handling the range & storage, capacitors handling the stress of aggressive acceleration and more efficient energy capture of brake-regeneration.
And when parking after Regen-braking, the capacitors can just charge the batteries at the batteries' pace, until they're both at the same voltage.
Try it with an old diesel, LOL! ;-p
+diossano That would be a disaster. LOL
I've been toying with the idea of using a capacitor to help with the power draw, when my intake heater grid cycles, on my Dodge 3500.
+diossano There's videos of people starting marine diesels with ultracapacitors on here
lol
You will need more CAPACITORS ^^
Now try to start a diesel V8
cold start on an older diesel that requires 2 full glow cycles? I would think the glowing of the plugs would drain the capacitors pretty quick. And if you didn't use a block heater and all the fluids were cold, then several rotations would probably be necessary before ignition. I'm somewhat skeptical
haha it would require two of them
Let's assume 2 30 second glow cycles followed by 10 seconds cranking, just to be optimistic.
GM 60G glow plug draws 9a, then tapers some.
Last starter I put in my 6.2l draws 1000a locked rotor.
8 cyl x 8a=64a for 1 min = 64 amp-min/60 = 1.07 amp-hr
500a x 10 sec = 5000 amp-sec/3600 = 1.39 amp-hr
Total = 2.46 amp-hr
I'll let somebody else figure out the capacitor size needed.
I have read about a tractor-trailer driver who added a capacitor bank to supplement his 3 starting batteries, which seemed to work well.
The question is will it survive overnight with car alarm turned on ?
Starszy Chemik yes car alarm use minimal current
Depending on what current your car alarm use
One night? Maybe. Two or three?
Did this on a motorcycle in 1985. On a kick start its just as good as the battery. Everything runs fine.
you need to test it on a V8, I suggest on a GM LS engine because of the small starter that requires less power to turn over engine, do some research on LS swaps.
A bigger engine just needs bigger capacitors, that is not a problem.
I need to make one of these too! (Since I have the same engine) 😉
the chickens are the soothsayers of The Perils of this Unholy technology
Excellent progression on your great idea! More testing and could sell them to use to start a car through the old lighter receptacle as a backup.
PLEASE NEXT TIME, ask your wife to keep quiet while you video tape... oh... chickens.. my bad.
5 years and my caps are still going strong. 12 maxwells 👍
What is your setup?
Godfather pls update us regarding these
Jake Esguerra Still works fine . Just have to clean the copper contacts once a year for I have them exposed to the elements.
DJ Half oz Bowflex Two rows of six in series then both in parallel.
Godfather are those the same caps? are you using maxwell?
when you start the car the voltage will take into account the alternator
Remarkable that your little Scion starts with 10.9 volts. My 1993 Toyota Corolla will start with as little as 11.9 v. A friend had problems with her 2014 Toyota RAV4 when her battery dipped below 12.4 volts and she started getting error messages from the computer and then it would shut off by itself or would not run anymore. It was diagnosed as an alternator issue eventually, but apparently on board auto computers get techty when the battery drops to 12.3 volts.
There is a reason why capacitors are not use alone as a power source. There are 200 bucks worth of caps there. Coulda' just bought a gel battery. Your alternator is carrying a 100% load on those caps. Not a good method of power for your vehicle. There must be a storage unit in the system. Caps are fine as a support or "Boost" as they are labeled to stabilize or ballast your power source but alternators are much more expensive than batteries and you will kill yours far more quickly.
+Ryan Olinski sure it will start it 1-2times if youre car is perfectly good for cars that take some time to start this will not work eg is youre car takes 2-5seconds to start this will not work or you acedantly leave the radio on it will die in a minute !
+Kristijan Dinga some people really are stupid, he had the radio going for 30 minutes and it was fine.
Matthew Stoumbaugh hehe i wanna see that ...
+Ryan Olinski Even Lithium Ion battery is cheaper than super capacitors and current Li-ion batteries can easily start petrol engines. Not to mention li-ion batteries do hold charge too.
Hmmmm, Replace Batteries with Capacitors in Hybirds Like The 2006 Honda Civics that overheat and shorten battery life. You Could Be On The something My Friend.
I am looking into that. I just got a 2000 Honda Insight and think a capacitor system may work well in this little car.
capacitor life is cut in half for every 10*c the temperature rises (or doubled for every 10*c lowered as the reference is usually from the rated lifespan and temprature)
so have you found something interesting yet?
Peter Mark As someone who knows a good bit about battery chemistry, fuck off. battery conditioning only kinda works on lead acid batteries, and on ni-mh batteries it just slows decay a little bit. Forget about lithium ion batteries, you're liable to catch something on fire if you hook one up to a "battery conditioner"
find a way to use the eggs to start your car
There are two main definitions to understand
1 energy density it's a property related to batteries, which is the ability to store huge amounts of energy, and speaking of batteries they can store a lot of energy
2 power density it's a property related to capacitors which is the ability to realese a huge amount of energy in a short period of time
In conclusion, batteries can store energy but not capable of realese it fast enough, that's why we have large batteries; and capacitors can release the energy stored fast enough but not capable to store a large amount of it. I've read in internet that the best solution is a combo a good batterie and a good set of capacitors and the reason is due to reliability, a failed attempt to start a vehicle with capacitors would let the car stranded, I hope I added a good point here.
xcellent point,a dual system takes the shock loads off the battery.
Pointless to use this with a regular car.
Only hybrids and electric cars benefit from capacitors, because they can store a lot of energy in short time, compared to lead acid battery. Then it uses that as a buffer between the electric motor and batteries. Mainly its used for energy recovery when you are braking. But that will be a thing of the past with these new nanobatteries coming out (F1 uses them already, but they are difficult to manufacture).
What... the idea is that this is used only for starting the car, that's what a car battery is for. The capacitor is charged by the alternator, replacing the battery. Potentially making it so that the car isn't dependent on batteries to start.
Rustyrivet250 Very well reasoned out. Thanks.
you're right on the draw/charge aspect but remember that caps last much, much longer than batteries. and as far as weight goes they are damn close right now, in5 years or so with the graphene ones in development they will outclass batteries by a long shot. now where's my lightsaber.
koglowa True, but I don't think the better lifespan and reduced weight is worth the risk of discharge. All right and good in the ideal condition. Try leaving it parked in the winter for a few days and start it then. Solar cells? Ah so what if i park in a garage or under a protective roof? And it costs more than a battery. A 60Ah battery for my car is like 50 euro, while this is closer to 150. Usually when it comes to innovations in the automotive industry there is a reason why we dont use them yet.
Im sure we would see all kinds of wonderful stuff if we peeked in the MercedesBenz development facilities, but it just isn't ready to be mass produced yet.
Just a random chicken at 2:49
Why do you call it random? I saw a BUNCH of chickens there.......
Charles McGowen Yea but he was the only one who stood close and watched the whole process
Parabéns muito bom teste 👍👍👍🇧🇷
I love tour videos but i love your chickens even more.
wont be useful in a cold start or old engines .. its nice idea but not dependable.. cold start will need many starter rotations to start engine and this will drop the voltage so fast and become useless it could be useful to use in emergency if battery failed
The Future Sound Of Egypt hopfully they will come out with graphene capacitors, maybe then it'll fix all those issues lol
You are actually wrong, the capacitor check out www.maxwell.com/esm their products rate to -40F
A starter motor is a DC motor, takes 200-300 amps, when operating in cold conditions it will take less then when it is 100 degrees outside. If you are in a cold area, you will probably want to up the amount of capacitors and put them in parallel . Maxwell actually makes a capacitor for a big rig, and they guarantee putting this in your rig will start your truck in cold temps. It actually puts out about 2000 cca. You can easily make this using these same caps. th-cam.com/video/JAT_8H23iGI/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/JAT_8H23iGI/w-d-xo.html
Your car is too quiet. I couldn't hear it start.
brussell639 not over his laughing
If you isolate the capacitor from the drain caused by vehicle's electronics, the loss should be near zero.
I have stored a charge on my super caps and found it nearly fully charged after two years, it was totally isolated from any possible load of course.
Circa 1980 I had a motorbike (Norton Commando) which was kick start and had an alternator. I had a dead battery and found that replacing it with a capacitor (probably 4700uF 50v at the time) allowed it to run perfectly well. It obviously wouldn't work with an electric start machine and I wouldn't trust it with a computer based system on a modern bike, but this was old school technology and was e-bomb proof.
Lose that ring while you're playing with that stuff!
If you internally fractalize the structure of your supercapacitor with nano carbon tubes, you can geometrically increase the capacitance of those buggers. I've got an experimental 525GF ultracapacitor and it's powering all of our appliances at home. All you need is a small rotating neodymium magnet to keep the charge up in the capacitor. This is just the beginning! I'm posting this discovery now, because I'm scared the Big Guys are going to find out about this cheap energy source and shut me down. We're also working on a system that uses cheese instead of magnets to induce micro B fields, so all you have to do is keep the appetizers moving to power the whole house!
Press (x) to doubt.
What you have there is a Perpetual Motion Machine. There have been many designs tried, but they all have one thing in common: THEY DO NOT WORK!
But you already know that.
@@DavidFMayerPhD he never said its a perpetual motion machine ?
what the point of saving 15 kg in a 1500 kg car?
@whitebird77 you will be rich now
whitebird77 no one got to be rich by saving maybe you will have some thousands but thats it, and it will take you years of saving,don’t fool yourself, all you have done in your entire life can’t buy you a car like mine, you will need another three or four lives of saving , so stop saying bullshit
Nonsense. 6-7% savings from removing the spare tire? What do you drive?
I was reading all the disbelieving comments which were reinforced by all of the ads for "boost packs" associated with this video. At the same time I'm thinking, "Well, you just saw it and there didn't seem to be any trickery involved". When he came back from the radio test at the end, I'm thinking, "OK, still holding 10V, and the radio's still working, that's pretty impressive". But when the car then started straight away I lost all belief.
TOUCHING LARGE CAPACITORS WITH BARE HANDS - RESPECT OR JUST STUPIDITY.
+Kevin CCIE The voltage is low. It won't ionize dry skin until it gets over 30V.
I like your chickens :D
0:41 seems legit
The same setup is used as a battery maintainer in amateur radio applications where operations are conducted in the field. Makes a great backup power source. ...........As an aside, a free roaming chicken is a happy chicken.