Thank you Trent! I was not raised Catholic and am seeking out the beliefs of Catholicism as well as the reasons for those beliefs. This was concise and convincing!
Trent is not the bible,why pray to the dead,when it's God your purpose to pray to,anything else provokes God's jealous,read the first commandment and the second out of the king James 1611,where the Catholic Church removed the second commandment because it goes against heavenly images
@@johnheisler9782 We know Trent is not the Bible bcz Scripture is Holy Bible. And Saints aren't dead they are alive and well along the side of Christ better than any of us, I believe you don't believe in Eternal Life, mmm make sense now. And we didn't change the 10 Commandments it's just arranged differently than yours, bcz we use the 10 commandments, which Early Christians used and you people use in a modern sense literally from the Bible.
Hello brother, you said praying to Jesus is not in scripure, but I recently found this passage and I'm a bit confused: Acts 7:59 "While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” Then he fell on his knees and cried out, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them.”When he had said this, he fell asleep." Edit: It's not a refutation, just a question :)
Tiago: Trent never said just praying to Jesus, He said "Prayers to the risen Jesus seeking the forgiveness of sins" or Praying "Jesus, be my lord and Savior".
The story of Ananias and Sapphira shows that God can allow someone, in this case Peter, to know the hearts of other people. God can do the same with saints in heaven if He chooses.
Every protestant worth his salt believes the Apostles' Creed is an accurate summary of the Faith, and it ends with "I believe in the Holy Ghost, the holy catholic (universal) Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting. Amen." Notice "the communion of saints." Enough said.
@William Cloud The "communion of saints" spoken of in the Apostles' Creed says nothing about prayers "going through Saints." The question is can they hear our prayers? They obviously can since they "carry the bowl of prayers" to God, as you put it.
@William Cloud are they deaf? Why are they described as carrying the bowl of prayers? Is it busywork (why is that needed in Heaven) or does it mean they are conscious of what they are carrying?
@William Cloud Through Jesus, who is the only mediator between God and humans. (1 Timothy 2:5) Even the Saints are still humans and so must go through the mediator, Jesus. That doesn't mean they can't hear prayers. I'm sure you've heard people pray to God. You weren't their mediator, but you heard them. You weren't deaf or unconscious or sleeping at the time. You can ask someone on Earth to pray for you, but you shouldn't talk to the dead, even though they can hear you when you're praying to God. That's the problem with the Roman Catholic belief, they talk to the dead to ask them to pray to God on their behalf.
Christophe Keating did you not read John 11? “ I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live” the saints in heaven are not dead. They are alive in Christ.
@William Cloud Wrong. The Jews could pray to God and to the prophets before Jesus became Incarnate. Jesus is NOT the only person who hears our prayers. You do not know Scripture and conjure up man-made ways of understanding, not God's ways.
@William Cloud Scripture is God's Word, NOT Your Word. You can't make Scripture mean your personal OPINION. When did God give you the Authority to teach Scripture? You are a man and everything you say is MAN-MADE. Everything the Catholic Church teaches is Holy Spirit made. You lack humility and are full of pride and self-deceit.
@@p.doetsch6209 You are mostly correct, but not everything the Catholic Church says is from the Holy Spirit. Only what is taught ex cathedra is from the Holy Spirit. ...Just clarifying your statement. God Bless.
@@Flagrum3 Yes I only meant that the teaching authority is inspired by the Holy Spirit. As opposed to so these Protestants who have no such authority. But you are correct not everything the Church says is always inspired.
The scene in Revelation 5 is John’s vision of heaven’s throne room. When the Lamb had taken the scroll of God’s judgment into His own hand, “the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of God’s people” (verse 8). Revelation is the most symbolic book in the Bible, and in this passage the “prayers of the saints” are symbolized as golden bowls of incense, held by twenty-four elders. Of course, the more symbolic something is, the more its interpretations can vary, but it’s important to understand what these prayers of the saints are-and what they are not. God established incense as a part of the sacerdotal system (and therefore as symbolism) in Exodus 30:1-10 when Moses was told to build the altar of incense. The prayers of the saints in Revelation 5:8, especially as represented by incense in the context of temple imagery, should be understood to take the role of incense in the temple, which was to offer up a sweet aroma to God and to symbolize prayer. The prayers of the righteous are pleasing to Him. Psalm 141:2 describes this aspect of prayer perfectly: “May my prayer be set before you like incense; may the lifting up of my hands be like the evening sacrifice” (Psalm 141:2). Prayer is linked to the incense in the temple in other passages, as well. When Gabriel appears to Zechariah in the temple and tells him that his prayers have been answered, Gabriel is “standing at the right side of the altar of incense” (Luke 1:11). This happened when “the whole multitude of the people were praying outside at the hour of incense” (verse 10). There are certainly different types of prayers. Prayers of supplication are the type most people are familiar with, because that’s the type where we ask God for help! But there are other types, too, like the prayers of imprecation (Psalm 55:1:15) and prayers of intercession (Luke 23:34). The fact that the “prayers of the saints” in Revelation 5:8 are not identified by type or in detail-and that they are together in an incense bowl-indicates that we should consider them collectively. God considers prayer-at-large as incense-a sweet aroma to Him. The fact that these are prayers “of the saints” in Revelation 5:8 indicates that God hears the prayers of His people. Psalm 65:2 addresses God as “You who answer prayer.” Our Lord “hears the prayer of the righteous” (Proverbs 15:29), which is another way of saying that He listens to the prayers of the saints. The “saints” in Revelation 5:8 are not an elite class of people who are more holy than the rest; they are not mediators of our prayers (see 1 Timothy 2:5), and they do not ask us to pray to them. The term saint in Scripture implies parity, not hierarchy. We are all one in Christ (Galatians 3:28). The saints are all believers in Jesus, living or dead, saved by grace through faith. The church is “loved by God and called to be saints” (Romans 1:7, ESV), and, when we pray, it’s as if a golden bowl of incense is being carried to the very throne of God in heaven. Whom are these prayers of the saints for in Revelation 5:8? Since these prayers are the aggregate of all believers’ prayers through all time, they are about everybody and about everything that is consistent with God’s will. If you pray for somebody’s salvation, that prayer is in the bowl. If you pray for the safety and relief of people after a natural disaster, that prayer is in the bowl. If you pray that God would conform you into the image of Jesus Christ, that prayer is in the bowl. Such prayers are well-pleasing to Him. Does Revelation 5:8 lend credence to the tradition of praying for the dead? Not at all. The dead have already sealed their fate, for good or for evil (see Luke 16:19-31). There is no post-mortem plan of salvation. Now is the day of salvation (2 Corinthians 6:2). After death, a person faces judgment, not further opportunity (Hebrews 9:27). So, if you pray that God would save or relieve someone who has already died, that prayer would not be in the bowl. Such prayers are futile. In Revelation 5, God’s plan is near to being accomplished. The judgment of the wicked world is about to commence, and the ultimate redemption of God’s people is about to be realized. The living creatures and elders sing a hymn of praise to the Lamb: “With your blood you purchased for God / persons from every tribe and language and people and nation. / You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, / and they will reign on the earth” (Revelation 5:9-10). The golden vessels full of incense are proffered to God, whose word will stand, whose will is accomplished, and who will pronounce the final “Amen!” to the prayers of the saints.
Intercessory Prayer of Saints Rom 15:30 - join me by your prayers to God on my behalf Col 4:3, 1Thess 5:25 - pray for us 2Thess 1:11 - we always pray for you 2Thess 3:1 - finally, brothers, pray for us Eph 6:18-19 - making supplication for all the saints & for me Tob 12:12 - angel presents Tobit & Sarah's prayer to God Ps 148 - David calls upon angels Zech 1:12 - angel intercedes for Jerusalem Mk 12:25, Mt 22:30 - men in heaven are as the angels Rev 5:8 - those in heaven offer prayers of the holy ones to God Mk 12:26-27 - he is God of the living, not of the dead Mk 9:4 - Jesus seen conversing with Elijah & Moses Lk 9:31 - Elijah & Moses aware of earthly events Rev 6:9-11 - martyrs under altar want earthly vindication Heb 12:1 - we are surrounded by a cloud of witnesses Lk 16:19-30 - departed rich man intercedes for brothers Rev 20:4 - saw the souls of those who had been beheaded Wis 3:1-6 - the souls of the just are in the hand of God 2Macc 15:7-16 - the departed Onias & Jeremiah pray for the Jews Jas 5:16 Prayers of righteous man 1 Cor. 13:12 - I shall understand fully 1 John 4: 20-21 - whoever loves God must love his brother 1 Cor 12:21 - parts of Christ's Body cannot say to other parts, "I do not need you".
Hello! I'm a little confused, when REV 5:8 is saying "prayers of the saints" is it saying that in the cup were the saints prayers (the saints personal prayer) or was it the peoples (Christians) prayers to the saints? Thanks!!!
So I think the elders and angels are the saints bringing God their prayers for us. And the actual word Saint here means Christians on earth. I’m pretty sure on this but I would of course do some research!!
Revelation 5:8 New International Version 8 And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of God’s people.
Bible says The dead know not anything (Ecclesiastes 9:5-6). The dead praise not the Lord (Psalms 15:17). Thoughts parish (Psalms 146:4). In death there is no rememberance of thee (Psalms 6:35). The grave cannot praise thee (Isaiah 38:18). All of your Saints and even Mary are represented here.
The Bible also says all the verses in Trent’s video. The early church knows better than you. St Augustine knows better than you. This is the problem with sola scriptura, people can misunderstand scripture.
Praying to the holy spirit - no, there are no examples of that because we pray to God. There are three persons in the Godhead; the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost ; and these three are one God, the same in substance, equal in power and glory. praying to the risen Jesus - 1) what other Jesus is there? He Is Risen indeed. 2) There are three persons in the Godhead; the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost ; and these three are one God, the same in substance, equal in power and glory. Presbyterians and many protestants pray To God, through the holy spirit, in Jesus name. Because the Holy Spirit and Jesus ARE God these points only represent HOW we pray, not who we pray to. How we pray is a secondary theological issue. Who we pray to, however, is a primary theological issue as we shall not have any other gods before the Almighty God. The sinners prayer is nowhere found in scripture, and it grossly misrepresents the gospel and is only shared by false teacher. this represents a straw man argument. Yes, the saints are alive In Christ. but there is still a distinction between being alive on earth and alive in heaven. those who are in heaven do not become omniscient, a trait that would be required in order to hear the prayers of men on earth. i'm sure you'll agree that only God is omniscient. for arguments sake, we'll say the dead saints can hear us. but they are not omniscient. that means, as finite beings, they are limited in their ability to hear our prayers. Can they hear only one at a time? 10? 10,000? because of their finite nature, they are at best like jim carrey in "bruce almighty" at a laptop overwhelmed by prayers in his email. the language in hebrews chapter 11 is the same language military leaders use to motivate their soldiers and politicians to motivate voters. "remember the great ones who went before you" "we have a legacy to live up to". then he moves to revelations 5:8 and the bowls of incense and prayers. completely ignoring that this is a prophetic book, using apocalyptic language. i addressed this in another comment already. adding to my previous argument, it is a picture of heaven where the saint are. in heaven we will spend eternity in prayer, praise, and worship to God. this is prophetic language depicting that. we cannot take this out of the context of prophecy and visions nor can we add to it context of dead acting as mediators. to do so would ignore 1 Tim 2:5. scripture is the best interpreter of scripture it does not make sense to ask those in heaven to pray for us. they are in heaven where there is no suffering and their is ultimate joy. how can they be in ultimate joy while offering petitions for our suffering or sharing in our imperfect earthly joys? pointing to cyprian and augustine is not pointing to scripture. and even the quotes he offered are thin at best. augustine saying the martyrs may "pray for us taht we may follow in their footsteps" that does not mean they can hear us or are aware of what is happening on earth. only that they might be aware Jesus had not yet returned and final judgement had not yet occured, theyre prayers would be general petitions the same way we might pray for the persecuted churches in china. then he point to engravings on walls - again, not scripture. the scripture he offers is weak at best, adding meaning where it is not and ignoring the whole of scripture allowing the interpretations he offers to contradict other parts of scripture. the rest of his "evidence" is not evidence at all. the church today still suffers from secular and pagan influence (episcopals allowing transgender ministers for example). and no theologian is perfect - even the best humbly admit they might be wrong while disagreeing with eachother on secondary issues. again, i say how we pray is a secondary issue. Who we pray to is a primary issue. ancestor worship is pagan. Prayer is defined as: 1) A reverent petition made to God, a god, or another object of worship. 2) The act of making a reverent petition to God, a god, or another object of worship. 3) An act of communion with God, a god, or another object of worship, such as in devotion, confession, praise, or thanksgiving. praying to the saints is: 1) A reverent petition made to [the saints] 2) The act of making a reverent petition to [the saints] 3) An act of communion with [the saints] such as in devotion, confession, praise, or thanksgiving. do you see how praying to the saints is putting them in God's place? burying a st. joseph statue in the yard in order to sell a house faster is far more than merely asking for him to ask God for help on your behalf as catholics claim. when you petition the saints what are you saying? is it "Dear mary, please ask God to....." or is it "Dear mary, please do this for me"?
You didn't really answer the question in the video (Can the saints in heaven hear our prayers?). I think your answer is: Because we are of one body they can hear us. But this requires (some sort of) omniscience from the Saints. What do you think?
The Bible says that Christ is ever interceding for us, The Holy Spirit helps us when we dont know how to pray, we are Joint heirs with Christ, children of God, friends of God, new creations, the veil was torn and there is no seperation between God and man, we have been reconciled to God through Christ. Why talk to saints or Mary who we don't know when there's God who we do know by His Son and His Spirit that dwells in us?
@@donjon2023 All that I said is in the Bible. You can google each phrase and the verse will come up if you're interested. If not don't worry about it. We all live out what we believe anyway. Be blessed
Do you have any issue asking your fellow Christians who are also part of the body Christ to pray for you? Do you not pray to God for your brethren. Do your brothers sin in asking you to pray for them? Do you sin when you ask them to pray for you?
@@jeremysmith7176 We ask folks who are here to pray for us. Nothing in the Bible suggests even in principle that we do this when someone is no longer here. So doing what the Bible teaches is more than enough because that is what the Bible teaches. Jesus and the Bible had many opportunities to establish prayer to the saints yet they never did. Pray to God, and ask your brothers and sisters here to pray for you and that is more than enough. In fact, praying to God is more than enough because the Bible instructs us to do so. I can also see why we should not pray to the saints. So many folks who do that end up treating saints like some type of mini-deity. God is enough, Jesus is enough, the Bible is enough.
Please tell me how for certain that we know we are praying to Saints and not to demons? I am wondering because I keep hearing of presumption being a sin. How do we know that these people are alive in Christ? If Once Saved Always saved is Untrue please, how can we know the afterlife destination of “Saints”?
If you direct a prayer to a Saint it goes to a Saint, prayers cant be stolen from their course like a letter. Saints are those who had extraordinarily pious lives, even if they had a stay in purgatory its very brief and they are in Heaven now.
That is a good question. And I think Corinthians 4:5 answers that "Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait until the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of the heart". For me here it clearly states that only God can say who is in Heaven. No man can do that.
Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 ESV / 2,575 helpful votes For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten. Their love and their hate and their envy have already perished, and forever they have no more share in all that is done under the sun.
i believe that you can ask saints under the altar in heaven to help you pray because that exactly what holy spirit tells me when i lift up a pettion prayer to the throne of Abba in heaven i have a gift of prophetic intercessor and im Christian i dont have any idea how saint pray but if you are a prophetic intercessor you just utter what the prayer that comes in your heart and thats the holy spirit told me, ask the saints under the altar in heaven to help you pray for fast recovery of the person who have sickness mostly cancer
because Abba’s will is perfect you cant told him that heal this person right now because everything is moving according to his plan so when you feel that this person need a supplication prayer you lift a petition but when you feel that this person will be healed you will use your authority that given to us to ask Jesus healing spirit to flow to a person prayer is powerful all you need is faith as big as the universe because you need to know the will of God
hold on, judgment day hasn't happened yet, our Lord hasn't returned yet, who are all these people you are praying to? Are we not forbidden to speak to the dead?
Wow. Bible doesn't record praying to the Holy Spirit or risen Jesus? Seriously?! They ARE God! The Trinity. Saints aren't. They do not have the capacity to hear all prayers an pass them on at the same time. Stop making saints a god-like figures. "Just cause the Bible doesnt't record a particular kind of prayer that doesn't mean that we shouldn't pray that prayer".. So we gonna add some stuff. Classic catholisism
@@italianoetnico.calabreseve9262 Jesus told us how we should pray, hence we have the Lord's Prayer. Jesus is God, hate to break it to you. When I pray to God, I pray to Jesus. When I pray to Jesus, I pray to God. You, I don't know.
@@italianoetnico.calabreseve9262 Then the LORD said to Moses, "Write this as a reminder in a book and recite it in the hearing of Joshua: I will utterly blot out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven" (Exodus 17:14). Moses was recognized as writing them under the authority of God. The Lord told him to write down certain things. Those who came afterward accepted the Law of Moses as an authoritative work. The Book of Joshua accepted that Moses' writings were authoritative. Joshua wrote.: Do not let this Book of the Law depart from your mouth; meditate on it day and night, so that you may be careful to do everything written in it. Then you will be prosperous and successful (Joshua 1:8).
@@italianoetnico.calabreseve9262 Already before Jesus' Resurrection, the Jews kept the Hebrew Scriptures, the Torah ('Teaching', also known as the Five Books of Moses), Nevi'im ('Prophets') and Ketuvim ('Writings'), called collectively Tanakh, stored up (set aside) in the Temple, not the Greek ones. The "sinner's prayer" is neither fixed, required, nor necessarily helpful. It's a flawed attempt to formalize what Romans 10 says about "calling on the name of the LORD" to be saved.
@@italianoetnico.calabreseve9262 The Septuagint was originally just the Torah, supposedly translated miraculously by seventy sages separately but with identical results, hence the name Septuagint (seventy.) The other books were translated later over time, some of them in different translations, so there wasn't really "the" Septuagint except in the case of the Torah. I would agree with Jerome that the Apocryphal books are not in the canon. They may be read for edification, not used to support doctrine.
@@italianoetnico.calabreseve9262 Martin Luther included all seven books in his translation as well, as did most protestant translations until the 19th Century. Including books in the translation doesn't mean they're considered canon. Read Jerome's prologues, he clearly lists them as non-canon. You are right, there is no inspired table of contents. The only assurance of canonicity is indeed in the use of books as Scripture by the catholic (universal) Church.
We’re all part of the body: yeah… my foot doesn’t talk to my hand. Trent’s analogy fails. Only the head, Christ, knows everything about every member and holds everything together. The angels holding incense, which are prayers: says literally nothing about alive saints praying to dead saints. The events recorded are all happening in heaven. Augustine and Captain say nothing about the prayers being directed towards anyone but God. And as for the graffiti - this only establishes that praying to the dead occurs but not that it ought to occur. Therefore, prayer is reserved for God alone. We pray about all manner of things and people and events. But never should we direct our petitions to anyone but God alone
@Athanasius so, even though you called my first paragraph “flippant” you still failed to understand it. Maybe seek to understand first, before you retort. In no way did I say the body of Christ isn’t connected. We’re talking about prayer here, not whether my foot hurting inhibits the functioning of the body. By way of this analogy, if my foot hurts the only organ that actually perceives, understands, and can do anything about a hurting foot is the head because the head is in control of the body. Obviously every analogy breaks down at some point so let’s not press them too far… the bottom line is it is a stretch to say the Bible teaches us to pray to the dead. Every passage given has a reasonable explanation about how the Catholic evidences fail. Your interpretation of Rev 5:8 assumes the prayers offered are of the saints on earth. The Bible just says the smoke is the prayers of the saints. It is reasonable to interpret it as all the prayers: past, present, future. Prayers of the saints in heaven only. Or even the smoke is a representation of the prayers but not literally the prayers. But at the end of the day, the Bible doesn’t tell us the prayers offered by the saints in heaven were originally addressed to the saints in heaven rather than directed towards God. You are assuming your interpretation is true and reading the evidence in that manner It is ok to ask people to pray for us… when we say this, we’re assuming a context. An alive person asking (not praying to) another alive person. We also want the prayers to go to whom? To God. God is the finish point of prayer. Prayer, definitionally, is verbal communication to God. Your conclusion from your last paragraph still does not follow from your reasoning anyway. Therefore…
@Athanasius You misinterpreting “the first part” is not my problem. Reading doesn’t seem to be your strong suite as we’ll see… There is no incoherence between the separation of the body on earth and the body in heaven. I ask you… how much interaction between us and dead people is there? Actually, contacting the dead is forbidden by God. You’ve not established that the original Christian’s believed the church militant and triumphant are connected directly, you’re begging the question With regard to the bowls of incense, again, you’re assuming your conclusion. There is nothing in the passage that states these prayers were prayed by the saints on earth, nor that they were prayed to the church triumphant. Prayer is given to God and you’ve not given any example of any apostle who teaches that they prayed to the dead to tell them to intercede on their behalf. Communication with the dead is forbidden by God.
@Athanasius John wrote Revelation, not Paul. There’s more than one way to use a word. This is reading 101… your whole next diatribe misses the point that people in heaven can pray to God just as people on earth can. God is omnipresent after all… your point about the bowls or incense ARE the prayers and not a metaphorical representation: so Jesus is literally a door and not a metaphorical representation? (John 10:9 - same author… weird) Like, a literal wooden door walked around and spoke and died on a cross? As Michael Jordan would say, “Stop it. Get some help.”
@Athanasius So, never mind your condescending words… 1) what makes you think the dead can hear us? Seems to me like the dead and the living are separated. Any ghosts or spirits or whatever could be lying about who they are… why should I think any once alive person can know or interact with us now alive people? 2) isn’t it against God’s law to communicate with the dead? 3) what example is there of prayers being offered to saints. Everything I see is saints offering prayers to God, even the bowl of incense is from saints to God. Even if you cite the apocryphal books (you may know them as deutero-canonical), those examples don’t prescribe anything they describe and any prayer is always given to God. Quote a prayer from the apostles that was ever prayed to another person. Quoting pray as simple to ask is silly. I’m not stupid, and you shouldn’t pretend to be either. Words can be used in different ways and in different contexts. Even in your example you said “pray tell”, why not just say “pray? It’s redundant. If pray means ask, why does nobody ever say I pray you “give me the information I seek. Saying pray was a way of beseeching God in front of a person to get them to realize the earnestness of your request so they would tell you. Lastly, lose the insults. This is tiresome and decreases the probability I’ll respond.
William Cloud respectfully, if you ever ask family, friend and fellow congregation members to pray for something, there is little difference except the saints are in heaven with purified spirits and closer to God.
William Cloud okay. So protestant churches named after saints are all heretical. And when protestants ask others to pray with them or for them it is pointless and wasted effort. And you will determine how Who God will listen to and under what circumstance. Okay. Me, I am not interested in testing God or setting rules based on 16th and 17th century philosophers. Even if well intended, they are just men and men a flawed creatures. We cannot fully fathom God, and the rules of worship set by a few men a few hundred years ago are worthy of study but not worship. I will venerate Mary. You venerate Luther. Luther venerated Mary and the saints. So go figure.
William Cloud there is no argument that Christ is the way and the light and our Lord. Catholics have always held this. Even if you think you do not venerate Luther, protestants are still devoted disciples of his teachings. I would again say that protestant churches named after saints must heretical as well in your view. You should also reject the prayers of loved ones on your behalf and reject request from loved ones to pray for them. of course I hope you don’t actually do this....
William Cloud the Catholic Church was founded by Christ. And we follow him today as we have for 2000 years. It is not us who are the heretics and followers of false prophets. Whether protestants know him or not- they follow Luther when they embrace his teachings. Along with those that follow the other protestant leaders who popped up between the 18th and 20th centuries. These are the false disciples that separate you from Christ. Not the Saints. If you follow them without study and research but do study and research all the false anti Catholic teachings you can you may be a victim of the anti Catholic bigotry of others. Protestant may reject the Church if they will, but there is no excuse for not learning about the sometimes strange men that spawned thier teachings.
William Cloud you are just well indoctrinated by bigots. Still you have some information even if biased. But it is okay for 98% of protestants not to know where there teaching come from. That makes no sense. Meanwhile protestants do lots of unbiblical things. Names churches after Saints. Pray for others. Pray for material things. Ask others to pray for them. Yes you are well versed on the anti Catholic talking points, and your hate and bigotry is showing. Maybe scrutinize your own denomination with equal zeal. Jesus warned us against false prophets. Protestant founders seen to fit this warning well.
There blunt historical examples but on the biblical side there isn’t any blunt examples it’s more so as implication and that’s really gonna depend on who is reading it. I am a catholic and I’m not saying whether it’s right or wrong but personally I won’t ask for intercession. I will however venerate the saints as every Christian regardless should learn of the saints lives and try to emulate them.
How come those saints couldn't communicate or receive information via prayer while they were alive on earth? What allows them to answer prayers now that they're in heaven?
Any prayer to a saint is to strengthen our relationship with God. When Catholics pray to saints we are asking them to pray for us. In the same way that you may ask a friend to pray for you. Just like your friend can't know that you want them to pray for them without you directly asking them, when our saints were alive they couldn't know that someone wanted them to pray for them without that person asking them directly. Because the saints are now not alive on Earth, the only means of communication is via prayer.
You didn't watch the video, did you? The only special thing about saints is that they are more righteous, thus, their prayers are more effective. They don't answer prayers, they pray for you. You ask them to pray for you, like you ask a friend or a family member. That's it.
@@GeroG3N They do answer prayers if your request is to have them pray for you… My question was how come in Heaven saints have this added ability to receive information remotely whereas on earth we need to solely use the material world as a medium for any communication to others still alive.
@@b4u334 The question is whether it is reasonable to assume that people in heaven can see what is happening on earth. The Bible certainly does not say otherwise.
Another same discussions. Its all same. They grasping at straws,knowing their Claims are traditions and they holding onto their false claims by misusing scriptures out of Context.
If, we do not know on the judgement day whom Christ will say are the sheep and who he will say are the goats then please how can we be certain of the practice of praying to deceased individuals?
You can only pray to deceased Catholics, no one else. We can, unless we know of some sin they carried, assume they died in Grace. As for Saints, they have been verified Saints and in heaven with our Lord, therefore near him.
@@Flagrum3 a Saint is human just like you and me prone to make mistakes but keep on prays to the dead like if the can answer your pray , God is the most high not yall saints. Were both serving God but some of practice yall do I can agree on.
@@teniciawilliams6087 Who said the saints were above God? ..No-one!. You don't seem to understand, although yes Saints were simply human, they showed a purity unlike most others, plus a prerequisite to becoming a saint is the ability to perform miracles, (through the Graces of God ofcourse). The Traditional Church, and by that I mean the pre-Vatican II Church, took great pains in their investigations before verifying miracles or Saints. Saints are believed and taught by Church Dogma that they are in Heaven, its called "ex cathedra" magisterium, which means it is straight from God. Just as he inspired the Prophets and the Apostles, God inspires and speaks through the True Popes, "ex cathedra". Also the Saints being in heaven, they are closer to God, and therefore that is why we pray to them, and to Our Lady, and ask for them to pray for us. Maybe the issue here is that you have never studied the Saints? Maybe you haven't studied the Bible properly also? Oh and no one expects the Saints to "answer our prayers" or to actually do anything for us, except pray for us. Basically we don't believe the Saints are above God, or even on par, far from it. But we recognize they are much holier and much closer to God then we are.
@@donhaddix3770 yeah not just Catholics. But all of the ancient churches make that claim. Every single one of them. The ones that have been around since the beginning.
I have questions Why do we pray to saints instead of Lord Jesus Christ? priest replied When we pray to the saints, we're simply asking the saints to help us Follow up question But Jesus Christ said I AM THE WAY, THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE. NO ONE COMES TO THE FATHER EXCEPT THROUGH ME. Jesus taught, “Ye must always pray unto the Father in my name” Jesus Christ never taught us to pray saints in order to help us. It is evidently that Jesus Christ is the Only Way Then why we keep praying to saints ?
@@cruzgomes5660 . Timothy 2:5 There is one God. There is also one mediator between God and human beings-a human, the Messiah Jesus. 2. Hebrews 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. 3. John 14:13-14 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it. Prayer is worship. The angel said, “No! Worship God not me.” Peter said, “get up.” 4. Revelation 19:10 Then I bowed down at the angel’s feet to worship him, but he said to me, “Do not worship me! I am a servant like you and your brothers and sisters who have the message of Jesus. Worship God, because the message about Jesus is the spirit that gives all prophecy.
@@lois2997 When people bowed to Peter he said: get up. This is the first pope remember according to you... When John bowed before the holy angel, he said no do not do that. Infront of Jesus, John was not refuted for this in the book of revelation. The devil may I have quoted scriptures, but so did Jesus, and his answer were more strong and defeated the devil. Our answer to you catholics are more strong, this is why you always have to downplay scriptures, because you know that by it you lose.
Wouldn’t the saints have to be omnipresent to hear my prayer? Can it be a silent prayer? Do the saints have the ability to read my thoughts? Mary can read my mind and all the other millions minds at the same time? ….
poor saints, they went through so much on earth and when they left it, they still deal with millions of us and our problems all the time, just leave them alone!
No, not advice, just for prayers, for advice you'll have to read their writings:p. Having a saint talk to you would be a gigantic grace from Gods' part.
he never mentioned advice ....Catholics make prayer requests to saints here on earth -and in Heaven(NON WORSHIP TO SAINTS) -We are the Body of Christ...as St Paul mentioned in his Epistles
@William Cloud cuz if you don t explain to me of what type of idolatry you trying to charge me , YOU ARE GUILTY OF THE 8TH COMMANDMENT ``Thou shalt not give false Testimony``
I am so sorry that you put people on a definite wrong path. Truly only Jesus Christ can intercede for us. There is only one name by which we can be saved. Why should we pray to Mary? She has no interceding function for us, neither has Abraham, nor Moses, nor Gideon. None - only Jesus. It is a severe case praying to Mary - it is the not recognizing of our High Priest who is in heaven praying for us to the Father. It is only the prayers that Jesus prays for us that are acceptable to God the Father. It is gross idolatry praying to Mary or Abraham or anyone else. Only Jesus! Please repent from your wrong path, while there is time. Truly you must read the bible and come to another conclusion.
You can pray for and to your ancentors, the prayer is never wasted. If they are in purgatory their time will be diminished, and if they are in Heaven they will intercede for you.
Praying to the dead is strictly forbidden in the Bible. Deuteronomy 18:11 tells us that anyone who “consults with the dead” is “detestable to the Lord.” The story of Saul consulting a medium to bring up the spirit of the dead Samuel resulted in his death “because he was unfaithful to the LORD; he did not keep the word of the LORD and even consulted a medium for guidance” (1 Samuel 28:1-25; 1 Chronicles 10:13-14). Clearly, God has declared that such things are not to be done.
good thing those who follow jesus have eternal life, I pray you discover more of what it means to have a mediator for salvation. wisdom is powerful so continue to pray for understanding.
praying to saints does not apply here because 1) they are alive in heaven even though they don't have their human bodies and 2) it isn't like consulting a medium because no one is trying to obtain forbidden knowledge when asking the saints to pray for us
AmericanBerean I am extremely FAR from the Antichrist Jehovah’s Witness I believe there is ONLY One True Christian Religion/Faith in Jesus Christ Called Traditional Catholicism
Why does Catholicism also have a Roman flavor? Just because Peters tomb is there? The word Roman along with Catholic feels mantra like... my family was Italian does this make us special? Lol The Pope is not Italian. What’s up with Vatican being Little Italy? I’m so confused. #RCIAquestions
Leah K the Roman (Latin) Rite is the largest of the Catholic Rites. There are 20 something Churches that make up the “Catholic Church”. There are many Eastern Catholic Churches that use Rites other than the Roman (Latin) Rite. Look up Byzantine Catholic Liturgy on TH-cam and see...
There are other kinds of Catholics besides Roman Catholic. The Ukrainian Catholics, there are eastern churches like the Mariomite Catholic church in Lebanon. Catholicism is not centered in Rome alone.
@@erikcervantes2466 - many people are confused about Constantine because so many Protestants and atheists have made false statements about him. There are people who say Constantine changed the bible, which is not true. Some people said Constantine created the Catholic church himself. This is not true either.
Constantine had zero influence on Church teaching. Infact all Constantine did was make the Catholic religion a legal religion, among others, as until Constantine's 'Graced' victory and crowning as emperor , Catholics were still being persecuted.. Christianity was not made a State religion, not still for decades.. Constantine actually reverted from Catholism near the end of his life to Hellenism and backed the Arians, which were pagans. Soon after his death his nephew took his place (Julian the Apostate) as emperor, and tried to destroy the Church with persecutions, destruction of churches etc. He even tried to rebuild the Jewish temple, in an attempt to prove Christianity false, but God put a stop to the temples reconstruction, a miracle rarely even mentioned in historical realms, even though there were several eye-witness sources including a Roman pagan historian and friend of Julian's.
No it's not. Ireneaus taught by Polycarp a diciple of John said that "Herma, The Sheppard" was scripture and in that writing it mentions the inerccesion of Angel's. Baruch even if not considered scripture by others shows even Jews did this [Baruch 3,4] later Clement of Alexandria and Origen say the souls of Christians in heaven can intercede. Would you like me to provide the quotes?
@@belleepoque3631 bs not pagan at all. You prots who have been around way less than Catholics think you know everything you think your 💩 doesn’t think well it stinks worse than ours
Ecclesiastes 9: 5 For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even their name is forgotten. 6 Their love, their hate and their jealousy have long since vanished; never again will they have a part in anything that happens under the sun.
@@redace6951 yeah the idea of the physically dead actually physically dying is a really difficult thing for Catholics to reconcile with the prohibitions in God's Law against seeking the council of the dead, necromancy, and the like. But, you know, according to God, it is appointed once for man to die and then face the Judgment. That means when they die, they are physically dead, and being physically dead, Ecclesiastes 9:5 and 6 apply directly to them. But then again, Catholics have a hard time with that.
@@redace6951 see what I mean? you are so blinded by tradition that you simply won't acknowledge that people physically die, and when they physically die, they are actually, really, scientifically provable, physically dead. And all men who have ever been born must die before they go to Heaven. They must shed their mortal coil as it is called, the corruptible as Paul called it in 1 Corinthians 15, before they go into the presence of the Lord. Their bodies have died. They have died. Their immortal souls carry on, their bodies have died and that is the context in the Bible about people who have died. Their bodies are dead, they are dead. This is the physical death the Bible speaks of. My question is, why would you listen to other men who claim tradition and not test what they say? God gave you a mind, reason, the ability to think for yourself. The "Church" you follow is really just a group of men, and now women, who claim the authority of God to dictate to you what you must believe to have peace with God. Biblically, the Church is all the believers of Jesus Christ.
@@redace6951 Lololol..... The problem is that you're confused. And Prayer to the Past on, is worship because you are giving them attributes that are forbidden by the Creator Himself to do, because He alone is all knowing & hears all...... not his creation.
You Prots are such ignirant little crybabies dont you ask your fellow church members to pray for you or false pastor to lay his hands no alter calls either then stick to coloring
I like Trent, but this is just wrong on so many levels. First, the Bible in principle supports praying to God and the Holy Spirit, Jesus, and the Father. It never supports or suggests in principle praying to saints. The texts he uses n supports are taken way out of contexts. Second, you can’t just add to scripture to support your view points. Catholicism does this only when they want to add something they really want to do. In the same breath they will say that women can’t be priest because the Bible doesn’t say they can be priest, yet they then go on to promote so many things found nowhere in scripture - not even in principle. I am sure if women were bishops and cardinals, etc that view would be different. Third, Revelation is symbolic. You can’t just pluck out of it a text that supports your viewpoint out of context. Fourth, and finally, my main issue with Catholicism is that Jesus is not enough. Catholicism introduces truckloads of extra requirements. Pray this way, ask this saint for this or that, you have to have this or that sacrament, the church service has to be a certain way, perform this ritual, treat the early church founders on the same level as scripture, follow this council, have this feast, etc. My God where does it end. Reading the Bible, it’s real simple. Jesus and his sacrifice on the cross is enough and when I accept him as my Lord and Savior and believe that God raised him from the dead the Bible tells me I am saved. After that I grow in grace and live a life worthy of the calling of Christ. This involves studying his word, and loving others as myself. Not all of these endless rituals, requirements, catechisms, etc. It may make people feel good but little of it is Biblical. That being said, I like Trent and enjoy his videos and wish him well. I also respect the Catholic Church. Poor Francis is doing many good things. God bless.
Jesus is more than enough for Catholic's, you just have a poor undestanding of what we do in the Catholic church and why we do it. I notice you didn't even mention anything about repenting of your sins when you talked about what it takes to be saved. You need to concentrate on your own faults instead of pointing out other people's perceived faults.
so well said. i feel as if a lot of catholics are so focused on the works and checking off certain boxes they lose sight of what Christianity is: Jesus Christ. it is a relationship not a religion. no need to put others on pedestals, Jesus is the only one who deserves our praise
@@Compulsive-Elk7103. Only God is omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient and infallible. No human alive or dead has these attributes. No one. God shares His glory with no one. No one.
No... They are all dead. And the Lord specifically forbids praying to dead people(familiar spirits)-->10There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, 11Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. 12For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.
@@lalagordo conjuring spirits is what witches do... All Christians know this-->10There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, 11Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. 12For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.
@@vaticancitybride7137 John 3:13 KJV - And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
Thank you Trent! I was not raised Catholic and am seeking out the beliefs of Catholicism as well as the reasons for those beliefs. This was concise and convincing!
Amen 🙏 May you find the truth.
Trent is not the bible,why pray to the dead,when it's God your purpose to pray to,anything else provokes God's jealous,read the first commandment and the second out of the king James 1611,where the Catholic Church removed the second commandment because it goes against heavenly images
@@johnheisler9782 We know Trent is not the Bible bcz Scripture is Holy Bible. And Saints aren't dead they are alive and well along the side of Christ better than any of us, I believe you don't believe in Eternal Life, mmm make sense now. And we didn't change the 10 Commandments it's just arranged differently than yours, bcz we use the 10 commandments, which Early Christians used and you people use in a modern sense literally from the Bible.
I'm happy that this channel exists, it clarifies a lot about the catholic faith!
Thank you for this clear and precise explanation.
Hello brother, you said praying to Jesus is not in scripure, but I recently found this passage and I'm a bit confused:
Acts 7:59 "While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” Then he fell on his knees and cried out, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them.”When he had said this, he fell asleep."
Edit: It's not a refutation, just a question :)
Tiago: Trent never said just praying to Jesus, He said "Prayers to the risen Jesus seeking the forgiveness of sins" or Praying "Jesus, be my lord and Savior".
@@samuelbaez7530 Oh! Now I understand!
@@SantiagoVerbel-j4l I am glad that you got it now. God bless brother.
Are u the actual soccer player Radamel Falcao or u just have the same name?
@@Mariana200_g I wish I were bro, I wish I were
The story of Ananias and Sapphira shows that God can allow someone, in this case Peter, to know the hearts of other people. God can do the same with saints in heaven if He chooses.
Exactly - If & when He chooses.
Every protestant worth his salt believes the Apostles' Creed is an accurate summary of the Faith, and it ends with
"I believe in the Holy Ghost,
the holy catholic (universal) Church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen."
Notice "the communion of saints."
Enough said.
@William Cloud The "communion of saints" spoken of in the Apostles' Creed says nothing about prayers "going through Saints." The question is can they hear our prayers? They obviously can since they "carry the bowl of prayers" to God, as you put it.
@William Cloud are they deaf? Why are they described as carrying the bowl of prayers? Is it busywork (why is that needed in Heaven) or does it mean they are conscious of what they are carrying?
@William Cloud Through Jesus, who is the only mediator between God and humans. (1 Timothy 2:5)
Even the Saints are still humans and so must go through the mediator, Jesus.
That doesn't mean they can't hear prayers. I'm sure you've heard people pray to God. You weren't their mediator, but you heard them. You weren't deaf or unconscious or sleeping at the time.
You can ask someone on Earth to pray for you, but you shouldn't talk to the dead, even though they can hear you when you're praying to God.
That's the problem with the Roman Catholic belief, they talk to the dead to ask them to pray to God on their behalf.
Christophe Keating did you not read John 11? “ I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live” the saints in heaven are not dead. They are alive in Christ.
@William Cloud
I know that you are proud of your post, but you need not post it multiple times, we saw it the first time.
Believers Never Die ! AMEN
@William Cloud Wrong. The Jews could pray to God and to the prophets before Jesus became Incarnate. Jesus is NOT the only person who hears our prayers. You do not know Scripture and conjure up man-made ways of understanding, not God's ways.
@William Cloud Scripture is God's Word, NOT Your Word. You can't make Scripture mean your personal OPINION. When did God give you the Authority to teach Scripture? You are a man and everything you say is MAN-MADE. Everything the Catholic Church teaches is Holy Spirit made. You lack humility and are full of pride and self-deceit.
@@p.doetsch6209 You are mostly correct, but not everything the Catholic Church says is from the Holy Spirit. Only what is taught ex cathedra is from the Holy Spirit. ...Just clarifying your statement. God Bless.
@William Cloud The Holy Spirit is who authored scripture! What kind of a silly question is that?
@@Flagrum3 Yes I only meant that the teaching authority is inspired by the Holy Spirit. As opposed to so these Protestants who have no such authority. But you are correct not everything the Church says is always inspired.
This put my heart at ease- thank you
The scene in Revelation 5 is John’s vision of heaven’s throne room. When the Lamb had taken the scroll of God’s judgment into His own hand, “the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of God’s people” (verse 8). Revelation is the most symbolic book in the Bible, and in this passage the “prayers of the saints” are symbolized as golden bowls of incense, held by twenty-four elders. Of course, the more symbolic something is, the more its interpretations can vary, but it’s important to understand what these prayers of the saints are-and what they are not.
God established incense as a part of the sacerdotal system (and therefore as symbolism) in Exodus 30:1-10 when Moses was told to build the altar of incense. The prayers of the saints in Revelation 5:8, especially as represented by incense in the context of temple imagery, should be understood to take the role of incense in the temple, which was to offer up a sweet aroma to God and to symbolize prayer. The prayers of the righteous are pleasing to Him. Psalm 141:2 describes this aspect of prayer perfectly: “May my prayer be set before you like incense; may the lifting up of my hands be like the evening sacrifice” (Psalm 141:2).
Prayer is linked to the incense in the temple in other passages, as well. When Gabriel appears to Zechariah in the temple and tells him that his prayers have been answered, Gabriel is “standing at the right side of the altar of incense” (Luke 1:11). This happened when “the whole multitude of the people were praying outside at the hour of incense” (verse 10).
There are certainly different types of prayers. Prayers of supplication are the type most people are familiar with, because that’s the type where we ask God for help! But there are other types, too, like the prayers of imprecation (Psalm 55:1:15) and prayers of intercession (Luke 23:34). The fact that the “prayers of the saints” in Revelation 5:8 are not identified by type or in detail-and that they are together in an incense bowl-indicates that we should consider them collectively. God considers prayer-at-large as incense-a sweet aroma to Him.
The fact that these are prayers “of the saints” in Revelation 5:8 indicates that God hears the prayers of His people. Psalm 65:2 addresses God as “You who answer prayer.” Our Lord “hears the prayer of the righteous” (Proverbs 15:29), which is another way of saying that He listens to the prayers of the saints. The “saints” in Revelation 5:8 are not an elite class of people who are more holy than the rest; they are not mediators of our prayers (see 1 Timothy 2:5), and they do not ask us to pray to them. The term saint in Scripture implies parity, not hierarchy. We are all one in Christ (Galatians 3:28). The saints are all believers in Jesus, living or dead, saved by grace through faith. The church is “loved by God and called to be saints” (Romans 1:7, ESV), and, when we pray, it’s as if a golden bowl of incense is being carried to the very throne of God in heaven.
Whom are these prayers of the saints for in Revelation 5:8? Since these prayers are the aggregate of all believers’ prayers through all time, they are about everybody and about everything that is consistent with God’s will. If you pray for somebody’s salvation, that prayer is in the bowl. If you pray for the safety and relief of people after a natural disaster, that prayer is in the bowl. If you pray that God would conform you into the image of Jesus Christ, that prayer is in the bowl. Such prayers are well-pleasing to Him.
Does Revelation 5:8 lend credence to the tradition of praying for the dead? Not at all. The dead have already sealed their fate, for good or for evil (see Luke 16:19-31). There is no post-mortem plan of salvation. Now is the day of salvation (2 Corinthians 6:2). After death, a person faces judgment, not further opportunity (Hebrews 9:27). So, if you pray that God would save or relieve someone who has already died, that prayer would not be in the bowl. Such prayers are futile.
In Revelation 5, God’s plan is near to being accomplished. The judgment of the wicked world is about to commence, and the ultimate redemption of God’s people is about to be realized. The living creatures and elders sing a hymn of praise to the Lamb: “With your blood you purchased for God / persons from every tribe and language and people and nation. / You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, / and they will reign on the earth” (Revelation 5:9-10). The golden vessels full of incense are proffered to God, whose word will stand, whose will is accomplished, and who will pronounce the final “Amen!” to the prayers of the saints.
Can the angels heaven hear our prayers yes they rejoice when we pray notice I said angels
I will be refuting these arguments
Intercessory Prayer of Saints
Rom 15:30 - join me by your prayers to God on my behalf
Col 4:3, 1Thess 5:25 - pray for us
2Thess 1:11 - we always pray for you
2Thess 3:1 - finally, brothers, pray for us
Eph 6:18-19 - making supplication for all the saints & for me
Tob 12:12 - angel presents Tobit & Sarah's prayer to God
Ps 148 - David calls upon angels
Zech 1:12 - angel intercedes for Jerusalem
Mk 12:25, Mt 22:30 - men in heaven are as the angels
Rev 5:8 - those in heaven offer prayers of the holy ones to God
Mk 12:26-27 - he is God of the living, not of the dead
Mk 9:4 - Jesus seen conversing with Elijah & Moses
Lk 9:31 - Elijah & Moses aware of earthly events
Rev 6:9-11 - martyrs under altar want earthly vindication
Heb 12:1 - we are surrounded by a cloud of witnesses
Lk 16:19-30 - departed rich man intercedes for brothers
Rev 20:4 - saw the souls of those who had been beheaded
Wis 3:1-6 - the souls of the just are in the hand of God
2Macc 15:7-16 - the departed Onias & Jeremiah pray for the Jews
Jas 5:16 Prayers of righteous man
1 Cor. 13:12 - I shall understand fully
1 John 4: 20-21 - whoever loves God must love his brother
1 Cor 12:21 - parts of Christ's Body cannot say to other parts, "I do not need you".
Hello!
I'm a little confused, when REV 5:8 is saying "prayers of the saints" is it saying that in the cup were the saints prayers (the saints personal prayer) or was it the peoples (Christians) prayers to the saints?
Thanks!!!
So I think the elders and angels are the saints bringing God their prayers for us. And the actual word Saint here means Christians on earth. I’m pretty sure on this but I would of course do some research!!
In this case the prayers are from the people on earth. It's not the prayers from the saints in heaven.
Revelation 5:8
New International Version
8 And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of God’s people.
A prayer to the risen Jesus:
While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” (Acts 7:59)
Bible says The dead know not anything (Ecclesiastes 9:5-6). The dead praise not the Lord (Psalms 15:17). Thoughts parish (Psalms 146:4). In death there is no rememberance of thee (Psalms 6:35). The grave cannot praise thee (Isaiah 38:18). All of your Saints and even Mary are represented here.
Amen!
and also says God is not the God of dead..
The Bible also says all the verses in Trent’s video. The early church knows better than you. St Augustine knows better than you. This is the problem with sola scriptura, people can misunderstand scripture.
"The dead" in this case are those in he'll, not the saints. As you would agree the saints do infact know what's going on
Praying to the holy spirit - no, there are no examples of that because we pray to God. There are three persons in the Godhead; the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost ; and these three are one God, the same in substance, equal in power and glory.
praying to the risen Jesus - 1) what other Jesus is there? He Is Risen indeed. 2) There are three persons in the Godhead; the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost ; and these three are one God, the same in substance, equal in power and glory. Presbyterians and many protestants pray To God, through the holy spirit, in Jesus name.
Because the Holy Spirit and Jesus ARE God these points only represent HOW we pray, not who we pray to.
How we pray is a secondary theological issue.
Who we pray to, however, is a primary theological issue as we shall not have any other gods before the Almighty God.
The sinners prayer is nowhere found in scripture, and it grossly misrepresents the gospel and is only shared by false teacher. this represents a straw man argument.
Yes, the saints are alive In Christ.
but there is still a distinction between being alive on earth and alive in heaven.
those who are in heaven do not become omniscient, a trait that would be required in order to hear the prayers of men on earth.
i'm sure you'll agree that only God is omniscient.
for arguments sake, we'll say the dead saints can hear us. but they are not omniscient. that means, as finite beings, they are limited in their ability to hear our prayers. Can they hear only one at a time? 10? 10,000? because of their finite nature, they are at best like jim carrey in "bruce almighty" at a laptop overwhelmed by prayers in his email.
the language in hebrews chapter 11 is the same language military leaders use to motivate their soldiers and politicians to motivate voters. "remember the great ones who went before you" "we have a legacy to live up to".
then he moves to revelations 5:8 and the bowls of incense and prayers. completely ignoring that this is a prophetic book, using apocalyptic language. i addressed this in another comment already. adding to my previous argument, it is a picture of heaven where the saint are. in heaven we will spend eternity in prayer, praise, and worship to God. this is prophetic language depicting that. we cannot take this out of the context of prophecy and visions nor can we add to it context of dead acting as mediators. to do so would ignore 1 Tim 2:5. scripture is the best interpreter of scripture
it does not make sense to ask those in heaven to pray for us.
they are in heaven where there is no suffering and their is ultimate joy. how can they be in ultimate joy while offering petitions for our suffering or sharing in our imperfect earthly joys?
pointing to cyprian and augustine is not pointing to scripture. and even the quotes he offered are thin at best. augustine saying the martyrs may "pray for us taht we may follow in their footsteps" that does not mean they can hear us or are aware of what is happening on earth. only that they might be aware Jesus had not yet returned and final judgement had not yet occured, theyre prayers would be general petitions the same way we might pray for the persecuted churches in china.
then he point to engravings on walls - again, not scripture.
the scripture he offers is weak at best, adding meaning where it is not and ignoring the whole of scripture allowing the interpretations he offers to contradict other parts of scripture.
the rest of his "evidence" is not evidence at all. the church today still suffers from secular and pagan influence (episcopals allowing transgender ministers for example). and no theologian is perfect - even the best humbly admit they might be wrong while disagreeing with eachother on secondary issues.
again, i say how we pray is a secondary issue. Who we pray to is a primary issue. ancestor worship is pagan.
Prayer is defined as:
1) A reverent petition made to God, a god, or another object of worship.
2) The act of making a reverent petition to God, a god, or another object of worship.
3) An act of communion with God, a god, or another object of worship, such as in devotion, confession, praise, or thanksgiving.
praying to the saints is:
1) A reverent petition made to [the saints]
2) The act of making a reverent petition to [the saints]
3) An act of communion with [the saints] such as in devotion, confession, praise, or thanksgiving.
do you see how praying to the saints is putting them in God's place?
burying a st. joseph statue in the yard in order to sell a house faster is far more than merely asking for him to ask God for help on your behalf as catholics claim.
when you petition the saints what are you saying? is it "Dear mary, please ask God to....."
or is it
"Dear mary, please do this for me"?
You didn't really answer the question in the video (Can the saints in heaven hear our prayers?). I think your answer is: Because we are of one body they can hear us. But this requires (some sort of) omniscience from the Saints. What do you think?
The Bible says that Christ is ever interceding for us, The Holy Spirit helps us when we dont know how to pray, we are Joint heirs with Christ, children of God, friends of God, new creations, the veil was torn and there is no seperation between God and man, we have been reconciled to God through Christ. Why talk to saints or Mary who we don't know when there's God who we do know by His Son and His Spirit that dwells in us?
Travislee. Nothing you said made any sense. Truism is all you have.
@@donjon2023 All that I said is in the Bible. You can google each phrase and the verse will come up if you're interested. If not don't worry about it. We all live out what we believe anyway. Be blessed
Do you have any issue asking your fellow Christians who are also part of the body Christ to pray for you? Do you not pray to God for your brethren. Do your brothers sin in asking you to pray for them? Do you sin when you ask them to pray for you?
@@travislee7222 Good points.
@@jeremysmith7176 We ask folks who are here to pray for us. Nothing in the Bible suggests even in principle that we do this when someone is no longer here. So doing what the Bible teaches is more than enough because that is what the Bible teaches.
Jesus and the Bible had many opportunities to establish prayer to the saints yet they never did. Pray to God, and ask your brothers and sisters here to pray for you and that is more than enough. In fact, praying to God is more than enough because the Bible instructs us to do so.
I can also see why we should not pray to the saints. So many folks who do that end up treating saints like some type of mini-deity.
God is enough, Jesus is enough, the Bible is enough.
Please tell me how for certain that we know we are praying to Saints and not to demons? I am wondering because I keep hearing of presumption being a sin. How do we know that these people are alive in Christ? If Once Saved Always saved is Untrue please, how can we know the afterlife destination of “Saints”?
If you direct a prayer to a Saint it goes to a Saint, prayers cant be stolen from their course like a letter. Saints are those who had extraordinarily pious lives, even if they had a stay in purgatory its very brief and they are in Heaven now.
The Church determines that through the beatification process.
That is a good question. And I think Corinthians 4:5 answers that "Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait until the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of the heart". For me here it clearly states that only God can say who is in Heaven. No man can do that.
NO THE SAINTS CAN NOT HEAR PRAYERS. THEY'RE IN HEAVEN, BUT ONLY GOD,/JESUS CAN HEAR. YOU CAN'T HEAR THEM EITHER. ONLY GOD'S/JESUS' VOICE.
Bs it is in revelation I thought you potty stinks knew your Bible
Divination/channeling
Amen
Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 ESV / 2,575 helpful votes
For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten. Their love and their hate and their envy have already perished, and forever they have no more share in all that is done under the sun.
Bible passage picking won't help you there, the dead bodies know nothing but their souls are still conscience and they know who they are
But forever they have no more share in all that is done under the sun proves my case.
@@cameron4339 Read the rest of the verse.
@@donhaddix3770 not really, they do not experiance it anymore but that does not mean they are blind.
@@cameron4339 Bible is clear, they moved on.
i believe that you can ask saints under the altar in heaven to help you pray because that exactly what holy spirit tells me when i lift up a pettion prayer to the throne of Abba in heaven i have a gift of prophetic intercessor and im Christian i dont have any idea how saint pray but if you are a prophetic intercessor you just utter what the prayer that comes in your heart and thats the holy spirit told me, ask the saints under the altar in heaven to help you pray for fast recovery of the person who have sickness mostly cancer
because Abba’s will is perfect you cant told him that heal this person right now because everything is moving according to his plan so when you feel that this person need a supplication prayer you lift a petition but when you feel that this person will be healed you will use your authority that given to us to ask Jesus healing spirit to flow to a person prayer is powerful all you need is faith as big as the universe because you need to know the will of God
Look for a verse literally tells Pray to the Dead Saints.
Amen 🙏🙏🙏
hold on, judgment day hasn't happened yet, our Lord hasn't returned yet, who are all these people you are praying to? Are we not forbidden to speak to the dead?
Wow. Bible doesn't record praying to the Holy Spirit or risen Jesus? Seriously?! They ARE God! The Trinity. Saints aren't. They do not have the capacity to hear all prayers an pass them on at the same time. Stop making saints a god-like figures. "Just cause the Bible doesnt't record a particular kind of prayer that doesn't mean that we shouldn't pray that prayer".. So we gonna add some stuff. Classic catholisism
@@italianoetnico.calabreseve9262 Jesus told us how we should pray, hence we have the Lord's Prayer. Jesus is God, hate to break it to you. When I pray to God, I pray to Jesus. When I pray to Jesus, I pray to God. You, I don't know.
@@italianoetnico.calabreseve9262 Then the LORD said to Moses, "Write this as a reminder in a book and recite it in the hearing of Joshua: I will utterly blot out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven" (Exodus 17:14).
Moses was recognized as writing them under the authority of God. The Lord told him to write down certain things.
Those who came afterward accepted the Law of Moses as an authoritative work. The Book of Joshua accepted that Moses' writings were authoritative. Joshua wrote.:
Do not let this Book of the Law depart from your mouth; meditate on it day and night, so that you may be careful to do everything written in it. Then you will be prosperous and successful (Joshua 1:8).
@@italianoetnico.calabreseve9262 Already before Jesus' Resurrection, the Jews kept the Hebrew Scriptures, the Torah ('Teaching', also known as the Five Books of Moses), Nevi'im ('Prophets') and Ketuvim ('Writings'), called collectively Tanakh, stored up (set aside) in the Temple, not the Greek ones.
The "sinner's prayer" is neither fixed, required, nor necessarily helpful. It's a flawed attempt to formalize what Romans 10 says about "calling on the name of the LORD" to be saved.
@@italianoetnico.calabreseve9262 The Septuagint was originally just the Torah, supposedly translated miraculously by seventy sages separately but with identical results, hence the name Septuagint (seventy.)
The other books were translated later over time, some of them in different translations, so there wasn't really "the" Septuagint except in the case of the Torah.
I would agree with Jerome that the Apocryphal books are not in the canon. They may be read for edification, not used to support doctrine.
@@italianoetnico.calabreseve9262 Martin Luther included all seven books in his translation as well, as did most protestant translations until the 19th Century. Including books in the translation doesn't mean they're considered canon. Read Jerome's prologues, he clearly lists them as non-canon.
You are right, there is no inspired table of contents. The only assurance of canonicity is indeed in the use of books as Scripture by the catholic (universal) Church.
We’re all part of the body: yeah… my foot doesn’t talk to my hand. Trent’s analogy fails. Only the head, Christ, knows everything about every member and holds everything together.
The angels holding incense, which are prayers: says literally nothing about alive saints praying to dead saints. The events recorded are all happening in heaven.
Augustine and Captain say nothing about the prayers being directed towards anyone but God. And as for the graffiti - this only establishes that praying to the dead occurs but not that it ought to occur.
Therefore, prayer is reserved for God alone. We pray about all manner of things and people and events. But never should we direct our petitions to anyone but God alone
Says the Bible nowhere.
@Athanasius so, even though you called my first paragraph “flippant” you still failed to understand it. Maybe seek to understand first, before you retort. In no way did I say the body of Christ isn’t connected. We’re talking about prayer here, not whether my foot hurting inhibits the functioning of the body. By way of this analogy, if my foot hurts the only organ that actually perceives, understands, and can do anything about a hurting foot is the head because the head is in control of the body. Obviously every analogy breaks down at some point so let’s not press them too far… the bottom line is it is a stretch to say the Bible teaches us to pray to the dead. Every passage given has a reasonable explanation about how the Catholic evidences fail.
Your interpretation of Rev 5:8 assumes the prayers offered are of the saints on earth. The Bible just says the smoke is the prayers of the saints. It is reasonable to interpret it as all the prayers: past, present, future. Prayers of the saints in heaven only. Or even the smoke is a representation of the prayers but not literally the prayers. But at the end of the day, the Bible doesn’t tell us the prayers offered by the saints in heaven were originally addressed to the saints in heaven rather than directed towards God.
You are assuming your interpretation is true and reading the evidence in that manner
It is ok to ask people to pray for us… when we say this, we’re assuming a context. An alive person asking (not praying to) another alive person. We also want the prayers to go to whom? To God. God is the finish point of prayer. Prayer, definitionally, is verbal communication to God. Your conclusion from your last paragraph still does not follow from your reasoning anyway. Therefore…
@Athanasius You misinterpreting “the first part” is not my problem. Reading doesn’t seem to be your strong suite as we’ll see… There is no incoherence between the separation of the body on earth and the body in heaven. I ask you… how much interaction between us and dead people is there? Actually, contacting the dead is forbidden by God. You’ve not established that the original Christian’s believed the church militant and triumphant are connected directly, you’re begging the question
With regard to the bowls of incense, again, you’re assuming your conclusion. There is nothing in the passage that states these prayers were prayed by the saints on earth, nor that they were prayed to the church triumphant. Prayer is given to God and you’ve not given any example of any apostle who teaches that they prayed to the dead to tell them to intercede on their behalf. Communication with the dead is forbidden by God.
@Athanasius John wrote Revelation, not Paul. There’s more than one way to use a word. This is reading 101… your whole next diatribe misses the point that people in heaven can pray to God just as people on earth can. God is omnipresent after all… your point about the bowls or incense ARE the prayers and not a metaphorical representation: so Jesus is literally a door and not a metaphorical representation? (John 10:9 - same author… weird) Like, a literal wooden door walked around and spoke and died on a cross? As Michael Jordan would say, “Stop it. Get some help.”
@Athanasius So, never mind your condescending words…
1) what makes you think the dead can hear us? Seems to me like the dead and the living are separated. Any ghosts or spirits or whatever could be lying about who they are… why should I think any once alive person can know or interact with us now alive people?
2) isn’t it against God’s law to communicate with the dead?
3) what example is there of prayers being offered to saints. Everything I see is saints offering prayers to God, even the bowl of incense is from saints to God. Even if you cite the apocryphal books (you may know them as deutero-canonical), those examples don’t prescribe anything they describe and any prayer is always given to God. Quote a prayer from the apostles that was ever prayed to another person.
Quoting pray as simple to ask is silly. I’m not stupid, and you shouldn’t pretend to be either. Words can be used in different ways and in different contexts. Even in your example you said “pray tell”, why not just say “pray? It’s redundant. If pray means ask, why does nobody ever say I pray you “give me the information I seek. Saying pray was a way of beseeching God in front of a person to get them to realize the earnestness of your request so they would tell you.
Lastly, lose the insults. This is tiresome and decreases the probability I’ll respond.
Roman Catholicism Is The Most Spiritually Alive True Christianity
William Cloud respectfully, if you ever ask family, friend and fellow congregation members to pray for something, there is little difference except the saints are in heaven with purified spirits and closer to God.
William Cloud okay. So protestant churches named after saints are all heretical. And when protestants ask others to pray with them or for them it is pointless and wasted effort. And you will determine how Who God will listen to and under what circumstance. Okay. Me, I am not interested in testing God or setting rules based on 16th and 17th century philosophers. Even if well intended, they are just men and men a flawed creatures. We cannot fully fathom God, and the rules of worship set by a few men a few hundred years ago are worthy of study but not worship. I will venerate Mary. You venerate Luther. Luther venerated Mary and the saints. So go figure.
William Cloud there is no argument that Christ is the way and the light and our Lord. Catholics have always held this. Even if you think you do not venerate Luther, protestants are still devoted disciples of his teachings. I would again say that protestant churches named after saints must heretical as well in your view. You should also reject the prayers of loved ones on your behalf and reject request from loved ones to pray for them. of course I hope you don’t actually do this....
William Cloud the Catholic Church was founded by Christ. And we follow him today as we have for 2000 years.
It is not us who are the heretics and followers of false prophets. Whether protestants know him or not- they follow Luther when they embrace his teachings. Along with those that follow the other protestant leaders who popped up between the 18th and 20th centuries.
These are the false disciples that separate you from Christ.
Not the Saints.
If you follow them without study and research but do study and research all the false anti Catholic teachings you can you may be a victim of the anti Catholic bigotry of others.
Protestant may reject the Church if they will, but there is no excuse for not learning about the sometimes strange men that spawned thier teachings.
William Cloud you are just well indoctrinated by bigots. Still you have some information even if biased.
But it is okay for 98% of protestants not to know where there teaching come from. That makes no sense.
Meanwhile protestants do lots of unbiblical things.
Names churches after Saints.
Pray for others.
Pray for material things.
Ask others to pray for them.
Yes you are well versed on the anti Catholic talking points, and your hate and bigotry is showing.
Maybe scrutinize your own denomination with equal zeal.
Jesus warned us against false prophets. Protestant founders seen to fit this warning well.
There blunt historical examples but on the biblical side there isn’t any blunt examples it’s more so as implication and that’s really gonna depend on who is reading it. I am a catholic and I’m not saying whether it’s right or wrong but personally I won’t ask for intercession. I will however venerate the saints as every Christian regardless should learn of the saints lives and try to emulate them.
How come those saints couldn't communicate or receive information via prayer while they were alive on earth? What allows them to answer prayers now that they're in heaven?
Any prayer to a saint is to strengthen our relationship with God. When Catholics pray to saints we are asking them to pray for us. In the same way that you may ask a friend to pray for you. Just like your friend can't know that you want them to pray for them without you directly asking them, when our saints were alive they couldn't know that someone wanted them to pray for them without that person asking them directly. Because the saints are now not alive on Earth, the only means of communication is via prayer.
I see that as no different then what the Mormons believe
You didn't watch the video, did you?
The only special thing about saints is that they are more righteous, thus, their prayers are more effective. They don't answer prayers, they pray for you. You ask them to pray for you, like you ask a friend or a family member. That's it.
@@GeroG3N They do answer prayers if your request is to have them pray for you… My question was how come in Heaven saints have this added ability to receive information remotely whereas on earth we need to solely use the material world as a medium for any communication to others still alive.
@@b4u334 The question is whether it is reasonable to assume that people in heaven can see what is happening on earth. The Bible certainly does not say otherwise.
Another same discussions. Its all same. They grasping at straws,knowing their Claims are traditions and they holding onto their false claims by misusing scriptures out of Context.
If, we do not know on the judgement day whom Christ will say are the sheep and who he will say are the goats then please how can we be certain of the practice of praying to deceased individuals?
You can only pray to deceased Catholics, no one else. We can, unless we know of some sin they carried, assume they died in Grace. As for Saints, they have been verified Saints and in heaven with our Lord, therefore near him.
@@Flagrum3 even some of your saints are not holy, pray to Jesus only.
@@teniciawilliams6087 WHAT? A saint cannot be a Saint without being an upmost example of holiness. What Saints do you claim are not?
@@Flagrum3 a Saint is human just like you and me prone to make mistakes but keep on prays to the dead like if the can answer your pray , God is the most high not yall saints.
Were both serving God but some of practice yall do I can agree on.
@@teniciawilliams6087 Who said the saints were above God? ..No-one!. You don't seem to understand, although yes Saints were simply human, they showed a purity unlike most others, plus a prerequisite to becoming a saint is the ability to perform miracles, (through the Graces of God ofcourse). The Traditional Church, and by that I mean the pre-Vatican II Church, took great pains in their investigations before verifying miracles or Saints. Saints are believed and taught by Church Dogma that they are in Heaven, its called "ex cathedra" magisterium, which means it is straight from God. Just as he inspired the Prophets and the Apostles, God inspires and speaks through the True Popes, "ex cathedra". Also the Saints being in heaven, they are closer to God, and therefore that is why we pray to them, and to Our Lady, and ask for them to pray for us. Maybe the issue here is that you have never studied the Saints? Maybe you haven't studied the Bible properly also? Oh and no one expects the Saints to "answer our prayers" or to actually do anything for us, except pray for us. Basically we don't believe the Saints are above God, or even on par, far from it. But we recognize they are much holier and much closer to God then we are.
I'm interested in how a protestant would answer to 2kings 13:20-21. Thanks Trent.
It has nothing to do with prayer to the dead and was the action of God, not the prophet.
@@donhaddix3770 all miracles are actions of God. The Saints donnot intercede on their own authority.
@@frankjamesiii5362 Dead people do not intervene. A false Catholic claim they cannot find in the Bible.
@@frankjamesiii5362 Dead people do not intervene. A false Catholic claim they cannot find in the Bible.
@@donhaddix3770 yeah not just Catholics. But all of the ancient churches make that claim. Every single one of them. The ones that have been around since the beginning.
Amen and amen!!
You're incorrect because Stephen prayed to Jesus when he was stoned.
Thank you!
I have questions
Why do we pray to saints instead of Lord Jesus Christ?
priest replied
When we pray to the saints, we're simply asking the saints to help us
Follow up question
But Jesus Christ said
I AM THE WAY, THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE.
NO ONE COMES TO THE FATHER
EXCEPT THROUGH ME.
Jesus taught, “Ye must always pray unto the Father in my name”
Jesus Christ never taught us to pray saints in order to help us.
It is evidently that Jesus Christ is the
Only Way
Then why we keep praying to saints ?
You can ask your friends to help you and pray on your behalf. Saints are your friends.
@@cruzgomes5660
. Timothy 2:5 There is one God. There is also one mediator between God and human beings-a human, the Messiah Jesus.
2. Hebrews 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
3. John 14:13-14 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
Prayer is worship. The angel said, “No! Worship God not me.” Peter said, “get up.”
4. Revelation 19:10 Then I bowed down at the angel’s feet to worship him, but he said to me, “Do not worship me! I am a servant like you and your brothers and sisters who have the message of Jesus. Worship God, because the message about Jesus is the spirit that gives all prophecy.
@@lexkirkpaculanang8013 just prot you misquote which is why sola scripture is bs. Even the devil posts scripture
@@lois2997
When people bowed to Peter he said: get up.
This is the first pope remember according to you...
When John bowed before the holy angel, he said no do not do that.
Infront of Jesus, John was not refuted for this in the book of revelation.
The devil may I have quoted scriptures, but so did Jesus, and his answer were more strong and defeated the devil. Our answer to you catholics are more strong, this is why you always have to downplay scriptures, because you know that by it you lose.
Wouldn’t the saints have to be omnipresent to hear my prayer? Can it be a silent prayer? Do the saints have the ability to read my thoughts? Mary can read my mind and all the other millions minds at the same time? ….
The Holy Spirit is God
Why compare Him to saints 😅
Thank you.
poor saints, they went through so much on earth and when they left it, they still deal with millions of us and our problems all the time, just leave them alone!
They are happy to pray for us, sinners, as we should also pray for the santification of other people
@@ssiqueira yeah but we don't pray for hundreds of millions of people individualy and for 24/7.
@@mohamedaliouat Well, we aren't perfect
You answered my questions
24 Elders are OT and prayers are trib saints during the trib.
i have news for you. according to Christ ALL Christians are saints
Guys u better stop making Mary mad u think Mary is not mother of god well she is always respect her because I’m the only one respecting her
Beautiful beautiful.
If you are asking for their prayers do you also ask them for advice?
You know... just talk to them?
No, not advice, just for prayers, for advice you'll have to read their writings:p. Having a saint talk to you would be a gigantic grace from Gods' part.
he never mentioned advice ....Catholics make prayer requests to saints here on earth -and in Heaven(NON WORSHIP TO SAINTS) -We are the Body of Christ...as St Paul mentioned in his Epistles
OK, but explain to me what idolatry thing that you think I m doing wrong ...and I ll get back to you:))
@William Cloud when you say you re accusing me of idolatry of what? I don t find you become totally fair with your accusations....on what basis??
@William Cloud cuz if you don t explain to me of what type of idolatry you trying to charge me , YOU ARE GUILTY OF THE 8TH COMMANDMENT ``Thou shalt not give false Testimony``
I am so sorry that you put people on a definite wrong path. Truly only Jesus Christ can intercede for us. There is only one name by which we can be saved. Why should we pray to Mary? She has no interceding function for us, neither has Abraham, nor Moses, nor Gideon. None - only Jesus. It is a severe case praying to Mary - it is the not recognizing of our High Priest who is in heaven praying for us to the Father. It is only the prayers that Jesus prays for us that are acceptable to God the Father. It is gross idolatry praying to Mary or Abraham or anyone else. Only Jesus! Please repent from your wrong path, while there is time. Truly you must read the bible and come to another conclusion.
I asked Padre Pio and Mama Mary,and He answer me. But praying to Saint are not in the Bible,So I am confused. Only Jesus please
Praying to ancestors yes or no?
You can pray for and to your ancentors, the prayer is never wasted. If they are in purgatory their time will be diminished, and if they are in Heaven they will intercede for you.
No. That's a pagan practice.
Praying FOR your ancestors, not to them!
@@Steve-qr2lm Correct!
No but if your a defendant of a canonized saint then go ahead
Praying to the dead is strictly forbidden in the Bible. Deuteronomy 18:11 tells us that anyone who “consults with the dead” is “detestable to the Lord.” The story of Saul consulting a medium to bring up the spirit of the dead Samuel resulted in his death “because he was unfaithful to the LORD; he did not keep the word of the LORD and even consulted a medium for guidance” (1 Samuel 28:1-25; 1 Chronicles 10:13-14). Clearly, God has declared that such things are not to be done.
good thing those who follow jesus have eternal life, I pray you discover more of what it means to have a mediator for salvation. wisdom is powerful so continue to pray for understanding.
praying to saints does not apply here because 1) they are alive in heaven even though they don't have their human bodies and 2) it isn't like consulting a medium because no one is trying to obtain forbidden knowledge when asking the saints to pray for us
No,praying to them instead of God is blasphemy
Interesting comment. Why do you say that? -Vanessa
Greetings Saint Trent, i have been praying to you for some time but you have yet to answer me in any way...
We only pray to Jesus.
God said pray for one another
@@MrVanjed During your lifetime.
Don Haddix do you pray for your family?
Don Haddix why do you pray to Jesus ?
Jesus taught us how to pray right ?
Heaven is Full
You must be a Jehovah's Witness, who believe only the first 144,000 people will be in heaven and the rest will be on the new earth for eternity.
AmericanBerean
I am extremely FAR from the Antichrist Jehovah’s Witness
I believe there is ONLY One True Christian Religion/Faith in Jesus Christ Called Traditional Catholicism
@@vaticancitybride7137 Then why do you say heaven is full?
AmericanBerean Because I believe in Eternal life
And Holy Jesus is Not a Failure
Protestant is UNBIBLICAL
“NON CATHOLIC CHRISTIAN”
IS REPULSIVE DECIDING WRETCHED OXYMORON !
Why does Catholicism also have a Roman flavor? Just because Peters tomb is there? The word Roman along with Catholic feels mantra like... my family was Italian does this make us special? Lol
The Pope is not Italian. What’s up with Vatican being Little Italy? I’m so confused. #RCIAquestions
Leah K the Roman (Latin) Rite is the largest of the Catholic Rites. There are 20 something Churches that make up the “Catholic Church”. There are many Eastern Catholic Churches that use Rites other than the Roman (Latin) Rite. Look up Byzantine Catholic Liturgy on TH-cam and see...
Howsoonisnow cool name. Ok thanks. I also learned about the Vatican 🇻🇦 being built on Peters tomb... I always have questions!
Leah K you’re asking very good ones. Keep em coming. Trent’s channel is a great resource too.
Leah K also all those 20 something Catholic Churches are in full communion with each other.
There are other kinds of Catholics besides Roman Catholic. The Ukrainian Catholics, there are eastern churches like the Mariomite Catholic church in Lebanon. Catholicism is not centered in Rome alone.
📿📿📿📿📿📿📿
But isn’t Revelations 5 talking about the 7 seals? How does this prove this?
The seven seals were opened in Christ's death and ressurection, the almost the whole book is about the fall of Jerusalem/the old covenant.
@@Jeronimo_de_Estridao u post mil?
Was praying to Saints some kind of influence of Constantine? I am very confused about Constantine. #catacombgrafitti lol
Aka pagan practice please help
@@erikcervantes2466 - many people are confused about Constantine because so many Protestants and atheists have made false statements about him. There are people who say Constantine changed the bible, which is not true. Some people said Constantine created the Catholic church himself. This is not true either.
Constantine had zero influence on Church teaching. Infact all Constantine did was make the Catholic religion a legal religion, among others, as until Constantine's 'Graced' victory and crowning as emperor , Catholics were still being persecuted.. Christianity was not made a State religion, not still for decades.. Constantine actually reverted from Catholism near the end of his life to Hellenism and backed the Arians, which were pagans. Soon after his death his nephew took his place (Julian the Apostate) as emperor, and tried to destroy the Church with persecutions, destruction of churches etc. He even tried to rebuild the Jewish temple, in an attempt to prove Christianity false, but God put a stop to the temples reconstruction, a miracle rarely even mentioned in historical realms, even though there were several eye-witness sources including a Roman pagan historian and friend of Julian's.
No it's not. Ireneaus taught by Polycarp a diciple of John said that "Herma, The Sheppard" was scripture and in that writing it mentions the inerccesion of Angel's. Baruch even if not considered scripture by others shows even Jews did this [Baruch 3,4] later Clement of Alexandria and Origen say the souls of Christians in heaven can intercede. Would you like me to provide the quotes?
@@belleepoque3631 bs not pagan at all. You prots who have been around way less than Catholics think you know everything you think your 💩 doesn’t think well it stinks worse than ours
Ecclesiastes 9: 5 For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even their name is forgotten.
6 Their love, their hate and their jealousy have long since vanished; never again will they have a part in anything that happens under the sun.
saints aren't dead. they are alive in heaven. they may not have their human bodies, but they still have their souls
@@redace6951 yeah the idea of the physically dead actually physically dying is a really difficult thing for Catholics to reconcile with the prohibitions in God's Law against seeking the council of the dead, necromancy, and the like.
But, you know, according to God, it is appointed once for man to die and then face the Judgment. That means when they die, they are physically dead, and being physically dead, Ecclesiastes 9:5 and 6 apply directly to them.
But then again, Catholics have a hard time with that.
@@redace6951 see what I mean? you are so blinded by tradition that you simply won't acknowledge that people physically die, and when they physically die, they are actually, really, scientifically provable, physically dead. And all men who have ever been born must die before they go to Heaven. They must shed their mortal coil as it is called, the corruptible as Paul called it in 1 Corinthians 15, before they go into the presence of the Lord. Their bodies have died. They have died. Their immortal souls carry on, their bodies have died and that is the context in the Bible about people who have died. Their bodies are dead, they are dead. This is the physical death the Bible speaks of. My question is, why would you listen to other men who claim tradition and not test what they say? God gave you a mind, reason, the ability to think for yourself. The "Church" you follow is really just a group of men, and now women, who claim the authority of God to dictate to you what you must believe to have peace with God. Biblically, the Church is all the believers of Jesus Christ.
Actually, there is a Very Powerful Angel who wanted & wants to be prayed to & Worshipped. And it didn't end well at all with him (Lucifer)
no one worships saints or angels; stop confusing prayers with worship
@@redace6951 Lololol..... The problem is that you're confused. And Prayer to the Past on, is worship because you are giving them attributes that are forbidden by the Creator Himself to do, because He alone is all knowing & hears all...... not his creation.
Why would you pray to the dead and Mary they can't save you only Jesus can. Thats like praying to your ancestors which pagans do
Don't think you know why we pray lol
You Prots are such ignirant little crybabies dont you ask your fellow church members to pray for you or false pastor to lay his hands no alter calls either then stick to coloring
I like Trent, but this is just wrong on so many levels. First, the Bible in principle supports praying to God and the Holy Spirit, Jesus, and the Father. It never supports or suggests in principle praying to saints. The texts he uses n supports are taken way out of contexts.
Second, you can’t just add to scripture to support your view points. Catholicism does this only when they want to add something they really want to do. In the same breath they will say that women can’t be priest because the Bible doesn’t say they can be priest, yet they then go on to promote so many things found nowhere in scripture - not even in principle. I am sure if women were bishops and cardinals, etc that view would be different.
Third, Revelation is symbolic. You can’t just pluck out of it a text that supports your viewpoint out of context.
Fourth, and finally, my main issue with Catholicism is that Jesus is not enough. Catholicism introduces truckloads of extra requirements. Pray this way, ask this saint for this or that, you have to have this or that sacrament, the church service has to be a certain way, perform this ritual, treat the early church founders on the same level as scripture, follow this council, have this feast, etc. My God where does it end.
Reading the Bible, it’s real simple. Jesus and his sacrifice on the cross is enough and when I accept him as my Lord and Savior and believe that God raised him from the dead the Bible tells me I am saved. After that I grow in grace and live a life worthy of the calling of Christ. This involves studying his word, and loving others as myself. Not all of these endless rituals, requirements, catechisms, etc. It may make people feel good but little of it is Biblical.
That being said, I like Trent and enjoy his videos and wish him well. I also respect the Catholic Church. Poor Francis is doing many good things. God bless.
Jesus is more than enough for Catholic's, you just have a poor undestanding of what we do in the Catholic church and why we do it. I notice you didn't even mention anything about repenting of your sins when you talked about what it takes to be saved. You need to concentrate on your own faults instead of pointing out other people's perceived faults.
so well said. i feel as if a lot of catholics are so focused on the works and checking off certain boxes they lose sight of what Christianity is: Jesus Christ. it is a relationship not a religion. no need to put others on pedestals, Jesus is the only one who deserves our praise
the Bible says the ONLY MEDIATOR BETWEEN GOD AND MAN IS JESUS
Correct
Saints are intercessors
@@Compulsive-Elk7103 . Live saints are.
@@Compulsive-Elk7103. Only God is omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient and infallible. No human alive or dead has these attributes. No one. God shares His glory with no one. No one.
@@ewaldradavich7307 correct!
Maybe learn about what the church teaches and you could understand our faith some more
Glory to Jesus Christ! ♥️☦️🙏
@@Compulsive-Elk7103 . Been there done that.
0:22 this has to be saddest argument. Silence is not an argument..... Trent is so bad at reason and logic.
You don’t just cry you poor thing. Best apologist around besides jimmy Aiken
No... They are all dead. And the Lord specifically forbids praying to dead people(familiar spirits)-->10There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,
11Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.
12For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.
david crane Christians never die.
@@lalagordo conjuring spirits is what witches do... All Christians know this-->10There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,
11Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.
12For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.
Cloud of witnesses in Heaven
@@vaticancitybride7137 John 3:13 KJV - And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
david crane
Elijah and Enoch weren’t there in heaven assumed
Thank you.