The Elusive Z Train
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ก.ค. 2024
- Hello!
In this video I ride the elusive Z train, a rush hour only service on the NYC Subway.
If you enjoyed watching, please consider liking and subscribing!
Track map from here: www.vanshnookenraggen.com/_in...
Chapters:
0:00: Intro
0:13: Z Train Overview
0:59: Broad St Station
2:31: Boarding the Train
4:58: Gates Av
7:01: Skip-Stop Monologue
8:27: Broadway Junction
10:40: Alabama Av
14:45: Jamaica (Sutphin Blvd)
17:07: Jamaica Center (Parsons Blvd)
This video has reached New Zealand somehow. I'm not even a train guy but watched the whole thing
Z for Zealand! Thanks for watching!
Do you guys have any light rails or subways in New Zealand?
Haha same bro
Watching this from São Paulo, interestingly after I've gotten interested in its rail system
Hello from NYC
I clicked on this because I was like "this seems nerdy enough to keep me interested" then when said Broadway Junction is one of your favorite stations I was like "now I need to subscribe and watch more of their videos."
:)
The is even more elusive; only two trains in the peak direction (so 4 total) each weekday.
And most times they cancel the trips and turn them local because of gaps.
My run was a J going to Manhattan, a Z leaving Manhattan. First day operating on it, I messed up the skip stops 🤣🤣
The next time I return to NYC I'm gonna try to ride the Z train just to go across that bridge. Sweet view.
The J and M trains also run on the same bridge! Another idea are the B, D, N, and Q trains over the Manhattan Bridge.
The view from each bridge is amazing. You can see each bridge from the other. It's quite neat.
Chicago's system was mostly skip stop from the 1940s into 1980s. Trains were designated "A" or "B" with the stop pattern being (usually) A-B-all-A-B-all etc. Thus an A stop origin with B stop destination always required a transfrer. Miserable in a Chicago winter.
I’m glad I’m not the only one who likes the departure sound of the trains
Been on TH-cam a long time, been a New Yorker a long time. Also have been a transit fan a long time. I have never made a comment on TH-cam. This video was awesome man. Thank you for appearing in my algorithm.
Thank you for the kind words!
That is ENY "East New York depot" for the buses that serve sections of Brooklyn and Queens.
Thanks
The middle Express track was planned to go above the stops from Alabama Ave to Cresent St then go back to 3 tracks at the same level at Cypress Hills but due to station structure, that plan was never executed
That would have been really cool: a station platform with a track above it
cool
@@nathantransitj111th St on the 7 line is sort of like that. Would be a neat video idea in the future.
@@petrichorbreeze It is! That's a great idea. Thanks!
@@nathantransitj Yeah, they realized a little too late that running trains over the platforms would cause damaging vibrations to the elevated structures, which ironically is also why they haven’t removed it yet. There’s another case if this at Myrtle Ave. The structure above the platforms was for the old Myrtle Ave Elevated down to the Brooklyn Bridge. There’s still a section of the old El that continues for a block south, and only remains because it maintains the structural integrity of the station and track structure, a sort of cantilever effect.
I love the NYC subway system with all its different services. In São Paulo, where I live, most lines have a single service. Express services are almost inexistent, which is a shame.
it's very unique of NYC subway, rare elsewhere. A bit confusing for tourists but also a very handy and efficient use of the infrastructure. Love it too
Great video. Brought back so many memories of riding the train. I grew up in Brooklyn and would always ride the Z and J trains. Cleveland St. was my stop. I remember traveling to school where either the J or Z train was express from Broadway junction to Marcy.
That building near Alabama Avenue is the East New York Bus Depot. In a previous life, it was a horse trolley barn and later a normal trolley barn.
BTW, I got so pissed at the overcrowding on the J & Z trains at Broadway Junction, I took the L train one stop down to Atlntic Avenue and took a train on the Long Island Rail Road Atlantic Branch instead.
Great I found a transit channel from NYC! After Geoff (London), Reece (Canada and worldwide) a welcome addition 💪 Greetings from Germany!
The Z train is something of a crock, an artifact of the MTA's designation comventions. What happened was that they decided to split the J into two skip-stop halves [in the heart of the rush hour] that a few decades earlier, back in the days of the QT, QB, and the RJ, would have deen designated JA and JB or J1 and J2. But somewhere along the way they had decided that routes must be designated by single characters, so they had to use a separate letter for one of the twins. This causes confusion and I'm sure some missed stops for passengers because there is no indication of whether a J train is skip-stop or all-stops. My point is that the Z train is no more different from the normal J than the skip-stop J, even though only the former arbitrarily displays the difference on its route designation.
New York used to have a skip-stop 1/9 service that caused so much confusi oi n that it was discontinued. I often think it might still be with us if it could have been designated as 1A and 1B. Funny how that tail wags its dog.
It's amazing to think of all of the engineering that goes into track switches, interlocks and signals that most people don't see.
Wasn't a train enthusiast until i saw this video, Thank You
I forgot to mention that you're in the hood! But nothing would happen to you in that area unless you're looking for it. I've been taking the J, Z, and E for years! Never once I felt I was in danger. My only regret is moving out in 2019. This video brings back a lot of great memories.
I cant believe you took the Z from Manhattan to Jamaica! I used to hate riding the J from Broadway Junction to Jamaica. Overall, cool video.
I really enjoyed this tour. Thank you very much. Sorry for Siris mistakes.
Yea You can explain to me a million times how the Z works and I’ll never understand 😭😭😭
I never knew there was a “Z train” in New York City which is only used in rush hour. That’s incredible.
I love and share your enthusiasm for transit!! Great video 🤩
In our Moscow there was also interesting routes in metro: 2/11 Khovrino - Varshavskaya (in 2004-2019) and 8a/3 Ramenki - Partizanskaya (2017-2019). Both routes were 6-12 times in day, I don't remember exactly.
Very nice video. I grew up on the J when it went to 168th Street and, can tell you a lot about the line, as it was, as opposed to what it is today. B'Way junc was much more massive than what you see today sadly.
Considering how much flack the states get for their rail transport, the New York subway seems pretty interesting. Off the top of my head, I'm not aware of any rail lines in the UK that are set up to have three tracks with a bi-directional one in the middle for express services (happy to be proven wrong). Usually we have four tracks with the two "fast" ones in the middle. If I ever end up over there, I'll be sure to have a good ol explore of the subway.
You'll probably be surprised by the "inside-out" four-track line in Chicago on the red and purple lines from Howard to Belmont. The local stops have island platforms between the inner tracks. The local red line runs on the inner tracks and the express purple line bypasses the stops on the outside.
South of Belmont there are two "normal" local stations with outside platforms [three if you include Armitage], where the red line, still on the inside, is now express and the purple line [here joined by the brown] is local. South of Armitage, the red and purple lines part ways.
Cool transit lore! I wish more routes (speaking internationally) would implement skip stops. I loved using the local, commuter, rapid, limited express, express trains in Japan, but I think it would only work with the high frequency the Tokyo network has.
The J line from Gates Avenue to 121 St is the oldest line in the system. Built in about 1887 as part of the "Brooklyn Elevated Railroad."
At Alabama Av, the "bus station" is East New York bus depot, where all buses that run along the (J) & (Z) lines.
Never thought I’d get stoned and watch a video about the Z train lol never taken the z or the G lines
NYC 😻
the skip stop was changed about a year ago, because of the long term construction at Woodhaven Blvd and 75th street-Elderts Lane
I love your enthusiasm! it just makes me happier when watching the video. I also LOVE new york subway system! Keep it up! I would love seeing more videos like this!
I remember those days when I lived in NYC I use to take the bus to Jamaica parsons Blvd for the E train or J if I wanted a scenic route. Brought back memories seeing the stations
Never been to NY and not planning on visiting any time soon but I sure watched the whole thing. Nice informative video! The lack of barriers between the tracks and the platform scares me to death.
Great video, man. I liked your approach and your information on not only the J and Z lines, but also from your exp as a avid railfan. Greets from California
Thank you!
Really enjoyed this video, thanks!
Fun fact : NICE bus used to be MTA I forget when it was discontinued..and also your correct the not in service trains you saw are all Z’s
Nathan, excelente!
Loved the video, thanks!
Interesting fact about NICE (Nassau Inter-County Express - Nassau County's bus system):
NICE will go into portions of NYC and Suffolk County in order to connect with those systems...but those two bus systems don't go into Nassau.
Wayfinding in NYC seems like a nightmare 😬
Got a like from me at "first time moving on the Z train" lmao
Had to watch this because the J was my train growing up (would have loved to see more Norwood footage) Don’t think I ever took the Z train more than once or gone to Jamaica Center stop, but seeing Broadway Junction, Crescent, and Chambers brought back so many memories.
Awesome footage and good explanation nice edit well done boy
Great review i just subscribed to your channel all the way from Sydney Australia, ive been to New York a few times and love riding the subway
Nice video. I never really understood the Z until this video.
The two yards at B'way Junction is called East New York Yard for the J and Z trains primarily.
I really enjoyed the store. Thank you very much.
Nathan, your work is awesome. I’ve watched a lot of NYC subways videos (typically about abandoned stations/platforms, hidden stations, plans for new service that were scrapped, etc.) but I’ve enjoyed this one video the most, and just subscribed based on this one alone. Your technique is excellent in terms of getting great shots of the trains both from the station and from inside (I like when you mentioned the Z moving into the center express track, for example,and showing how cool it is that you can see the street right through the tracks). You know how to get a good shot and not linger too long and make it really interesting. Yes you pronounced Kosciusko St correctly! I grew up in the Bronx and rode the subway all the time, thought I knew a lot. But you showed us a LOT of interesting stuff and I learned a lot. And I consider myself pretty darn knowledgeable about the subway! When I was a small child, if I couldn’t fall asleep at home, my grandfather would take me on the subway and I was out like a light. I collected maps and rode it for fun all the time. And I learned so much!
I even now realize that one particular station that kind of freaked me out in my youth must be that Essex St if I remember correctly - the one with all that platform area even though just the one line uses it). It reoccurs in my dreams to this day! Your narration is excellent, really informative. I appreciated the explanation of why you shot this at night. Loved the piece on the Broadway junction stop, that was really cool, too.
I did not know there was express only service during rush hour and always wondered about that little line on the map skipping the 3 stops after Marcy Ave let alone didn’t realize what skip stop service was. Nice explanations.
I’m in my 60s now but am reliving my subway childhood through these videos. And now that I’m subscribed, I’m about to see more of your great work.
Thank you so much! I’m really glad that you enjoyed my way of making videos! Although much is inspired by other creators, I am adding my own touches and I’m so glad that you noticed and enjoyed them :). Hopefully you will find my future videos just as interesting, and if not, please let me know on how I can improve them. This comment made my day :)
Norwood is my station to get to home! glad that it was in your video!
Enjoyed the video.
You did good job. Nice.
In Brisbane Australia have some lines like Caboolture line that operate limited express service on all trains from first train to last train. About 2/3rds of the lines stations are skipped using a mixture of quad track and triple track. The skipped stops are covered by another service that branch off at Petrie Junction. It is a great quick train and most trains even have onboard toilets and comfortable seating.
In the case of traditional skip stop service pattern was used on the midland line in Perth Western Australia. Melbourne Australia has elevated railways that were only recently built but far nicer looking than these New York stations.
Cool video. The Bay Ridge Branch has an interchange with the subway system just south of the Livonia Ave L train stop and the Junius Street 3 train stop. There's a subway track facility there you can see when you take the out-of-system transfer between the L and 3 trains. All three -- the L, 3, and Bay Ridge branch -- connect to the yard at that facility.
The MTA messed up the logical service pattern from when the J was the true "Jamaica Express". Back in the 1970s when the J (QJ) and the KK ran, the J was express from Essex Street to Broadway Junction stopping at Myrtle. And NO the J express did not stop at Marcy Avenue - a local station. Then east of Broadway Junction is where the J and KK begun their skip stop service to 168 Street. From Essex Street to Broadway Junction the KK was local. From Essex Street to Myrtle Avenue the M was express.
The “super” express to Broadway junction does make a lot of sense. I wonder why that was removed. The tracks are still there and working.
Take a shot anytime Nathan says "cool" and call me from the hospital
I’ll review a thesaurus for next time! :D
The Market-Frankford Line in Philly discontinued the A/B skip-stop service.
Ok! This is the last comment for real! The N4 take you to long island. I used to take it when I was worked in Garden city! So many memories are overflowing right now!
Thanks for all the insight and I'm glad I was able to make you happy (and nostalgic)!
SEPTA's skip-stop on the El ended I believe because of the pandemic service changes and hasn't returned in regular service since. Vanishing Underground does an excellent job detailing it!
a friend of mine who's a ny native, one day in his late 20s, announced to me he finally got to ride the z train after his whole life never been on it. I live not too far from a z stop and I've never ridden it ever. It just is impossible to get if you have no business going on that line during a normal work day
Busspotting 😂 great job Nathan
Hi Nathan. Great video and much enjoyed. Cheers. Subscribed.
Thank you!
I love how youre showing the side of bk that most of these other channels dont! I you like that station, you would also like jamaica on the lirr.
I remember going out there to visit my moms. There used to also be tons of dollar vans u can catch that brought u to Other areas out there like St. Albans, Laurelton, Rosedale Cambria Hts. Its usually busy there
After the holiday. No schools, many still on vacation
That space at Chambers is actually where the LIRR used to be, and the terminal
62nd Street New Utrecht now has a similar feel to Broadway Junction, also including the visible freight rail
IBX will also go to that stop.
New York needs a system like metropolitan line in London, uk. Where it has a local and express services running at all times. It much simpler rather than having a change of service every few hours like the Z/J Line. It would make it much simpler for tourists. And sorry for taking a pop at New York, but London does have better metro system. Higher frequency, consistent timetable, easier to navigate, better trains. Just saying 🤷♂️🙂
Many lines have four tracks for local and express service, but the Jamaica Line (J/Z service) is not one of them. The line has room for three tracks the entire way, with a third track existing west of Broadway Junction. As a result, the maximum train frequency one can run is 30 trains per hour. Let’s not forget that a two track spur splits off at Myrtle Avenue used for the M train. The current infrastructure reduces the Jamaica Line’s maximum capacity to 24 trains per hour. The Myrtle Avenue Line has seen a ridership growth since the M route has been moved to Midtown so with the current restraints, that route would need 12 trains per hour max. This leaves another 12 trains per hour for the J/Z service for Jamaica Center. That service level is too low to warrant all-day local and express service while taking into account for M train service. Even if the infrastructure constraints were removed to allow for M trains to operate at 15 trains per hour (leveling out with F train service on 6th Avenue), 15 trains per hour would still be too low for an even local/express split all day in both directions.
I stand corrected. In my prior posting I said the J line from Gates to 121 St. I meant to "Cypress Hills" which was actually over Crescent St at the corner of Jamaica Ave.
I used to ride the skip-stop 9 in the early 2000s. I miss those days. But yeah, it can be confusing for tourists and locals, tbh. Haha. And I also would randomly ride the subway after I got off work to see where I'd end up. I lived at the end of the A in Inwood but loved exploring Brooklyn and Queens.
I can say as a tourist from Paris all the express and skipping shenanigans were definitely a bit confusing at first lol. I guess that's what happens when your subway is both a subway and a commuter rail system at the same time
You might be interested in looking into the service patterns from Baker Street (London) to Rickmansworth.
Love my Z train !!!
It would be nice to see the Z be used for a limited service to Bay Parkway via Montague and 4th Ave like the old M Nassau service.
It would be useless. The R already goes to Lower Manhattan and there are not enough cars for such an extension.
Up until the mid 1970s, the J was deignated the QJ and supplemented with the KK during rush hours. Back then, it was fully elevated all the way to its previous terminus at 168th street and Jamaica Avenue with no actual connection to the E train.
Cool! I’m assuming they tore down the Jamaica el then…
That is correct. the last revenue day of service was the night of Sept 10,1977 and I rode it. the next day, the Nostalgia Special (ERA branch) The electric railroaders association ran a farewell to the Jamaica El fantrip, which I also attended, feature the D types for the first part of the day and after our Lunch, we boarded the B-types. it was another sad day in history. I lived at the Queens blvd station, the station before the original Sutphin Blvd on the J. FYI, they once had an RJ, OJ, JJ for the line. The RJ was short lived and continued past Broad st back into Brooklyn. QJ for Queens Jamaica. back then, you could find an assortment of route letter designations. during peak hours, the QJ/JJ ran express from Essex to Myrtle and then to Broadway Junction aka Eastern Parkway for the A train downstairs,Eastern Parkway for the QJ/JJ/LL upstairs. the now L train, which you saw from Alabama Ave. the girders that remain are from the original Fulton Street EL ant is now the A train. @@nathantransitj
The then KK train ran all local stops from Essex to Broadway junction and then relay out on one of many tracks, next to the then LL line and return back to 57th &6th Ave. rush hours only.
@@TheBeagle58 - The A & C trains stopped at Broadway - East New York, the QJ/JJ/RJ & KK trains stopped at Eastern Parkway, while the LL stopped at Broadway Junction - yes it was one interconnected station with three different names for the platforms.
@@michaelsherrell6389 Actually, downstairs on the independent, it was the CC, not C, along with rush hour E trains to Rock Park. 😁
As a tourist I remember that Jamaica JFK station by it's narrow platform. Awkward with a big bag.
Of course I had no idea about relative speeds of each line , so taking the J to Manhattan was slooooow.
Ok, last comment. I used stand on the H section to wait for the q83 and I took that close to the last stop to get home everyday! lol.
Nice video dude! I gave you a sub
4:48 I had to look for a video of one of the bus lines (70) that runs on Olive in DTLA for the automated bus next stop and sounds about right.
Man you cute and funny. Hope it goes well with all the transit contents
Whoever put this video on board the C train didn't apply the brakes at the end of the line, and it seems to have landed on my laptop in the UK, too! 😁
Unlike most British folk I understand the concept of Skip/Stop working at 07:00 and with many of our transit systems being dual track only I've often wondered why we don't make use of it - It'd be an absolute godsend on many peak-time commuter workings into Manchester and Birmingham, especially as Skip/Stop (With a Safe System of Work in place) lets two trains fit into almost the same track and timetable space of a classic individual train. That said; We definitely know _of_ it, but maybe it's felt the concept is too complicated or difficult for the majority of British commuters to understand, so we apply the _Keep it Simple_ methodology instead. 🇬🇧
Just FYI; The silver columns at Jamaica (14:50) aren't there for decoration, they're designed to prevent graffiti by making it easier to clean off compared to tilework or paint. The circular pattern is used to break up the reflective effect of steel plate (Which could have safety impacts for drivers) but also to make carved graffiti/tags much less visible so therefore not worth the effort for those doing it. 😇
For one, I did not know about the anti-graffiti measures and the reasons for the pattern so thanks! I think skip stop services would be great as you mentioned and if you want to stretch the definition a bit, they are sort of already in place. Consider an express and local train: if the express departs at 0900 and the local at 0902, there is enough time for the express train to speed ahead and you have a service pattern where two types of services run on a two-track line. This, of course, only works with less frequent services (every 20min+ or so) but it is almost certainly implemented on at least some commuter lines (I'm unfortunately not yet familiar enough with the UK to give examples☹️).
15:21 A problem toronto's subway had during the 6 months in 1966 it did interlined services. Going east, there could be a train on the upper and lower levels of Bay station and going west the same happened at St George station
I just opened the interlined Toronto subway map and WOW, that’s an interesting loop they had there!
@@nathantransitj The idea was, you could go to anywhere on the system on a one seat ride. They ran it as follows: Train starts at Eglinton, goes west at the wye to Upper St George, continues west to Keele. At Keele it goes east to Woodbine. At Woodbine, it goes west to Bloor-Yonge, serves Bay Lower and continues to Eglinton via the wye. Every other train would do vice versa.
The crowds on stairs and the delays causing system wide chaos caused the ttc to abandon the interlined service in favor of segregated service which has persisted to this day. Bay's lower platforms were used only for 6 months before being closed. The ttc now use it to test features for other stations, train fire fighters and more famously, it is often used to represent a metro station in movies.
Bay Lower would eventually be seen by the public again 40 years later when in 2007 due to major tunnel work, the ttc had to split service on line 2, terminating trains from at Museum. The only way to continue east was via Bay Lower
I remember when it ran the 42s and 40Ms in the early 2000s. Plus the late 32s.
And it is KOS-KEYS-KOES
I used to take the Z regularly between Jamaica Center and Broad Street for work, so I can't relate to everyone calling it elusive 😂 I admit I nerded out a little seeing you visit Jamaica Center, I've lived around that part of Queens all my life and it's usually pretty overlooked. The area's sketchy tho, I'll admit
I've never taken the Z train but also wanted to just because my name starts with Z lol. I've definitely passed by those lanes when taking the lirr to Jamaica, I didn't even realize that was the first stop on the e/j/z, I think I thought sutphin was the last stop for the j/z.
Despite living in NYC for 10y and working here for 16y, I've yet to take the Z train!
Hope Your Channel Is Growing. Happy New 🎉Years!!
Thank you! Happy new year!
There is no difference in the running time between a J and a Z. It's only done to give the impression of faster service.
Retired M/M
During rush hour this is true
nice you should have more subs
12:15 - Yes, SEPTA Blue / Market/Frankford Line city subway-el uses A-B skip-stop service.
Jade and Zelma performs tandem skip stop service too. You really gotta look for Zelma.
Side note: the first stop you got off at, Gates Avenue, is actually the oldest station in the entire New York subway system!!!!
Cool!
Hi from Brooklyn
Hello!
Consider doing the Nostrand ave underpass on the A line. It has a very interesting and dark history. Have fun with that research.
Bucket list
The video had reached the UAE, even though I don't have much of an interest in the NYC subway in particular.
Cool! Hope you enjoyed
I never seen someone that looked at the z train very positive ,usually the z train is hated ,also At 1:30 J and Z trains never have run to the R line ,this is because only the brown m train ran to the R line before 2009 also at 2:14 there is another exit at broad street there you can actually go to that platform on the other side also at 3:20 the J and Z trains never terminated at chambers street before ,there used to be a brown R train that would terminate there and sometimes the m trains terminate there ,also chambers street is not very cool since it is the worst place You could ever one to be (please correct me if I’m wrong ) ,also skip stop is a bad thing since people who live along those station since they have to wait for at least 10 minutes for a train to downtown during peak hours ,the fact that the 1 line use to have skip stop service but got cancel because too confusing ,skip stop is a bad thing if you don’t know how to use it ,they can make the z train use the express track and put new express tracks at two track stations since there is room for a third track and improve J trains frequency so they could run skip stop service between Alabama avenue and crescent street ,so people won’t have to wait for 10 whole minutes for a train ,also skip stop service I meant is the j train stop at every station while the z stops at selected stations between Alabama and crescent street and at 13:58 you can put an express track there
12:21 the Market Frankford Line in Philly discontinued skip stop service in early 2020
What camera do you use to record? Also nice video!!
I use an iPhone 13 (not pro). Most phones nowadays are great for causal content creation!