"I can never be Lord of Winterfell. I can never be Lord of anything. I'm the three-eyed raven." "How about king of like everything?" "Hell yeah baby let's do this"
The Hand would have as many opportunities to travel to Castle Black as a sworn brother of The Night's watch would have to travel to King's Landing. Ned was aware they'd never see eachother again. Jon wasnt....he had only ever taken Ned at face value. They kinda started and ended on a lie from Ned both with the intent of protecting him.
I don't even mind dany going rogue or jon snow being a tragic character. But the ending was so rushed it felt like everything the had been building up to was thrown out the window.
Ill take it one step further, i wanted to see dany become a villian and jon be a martyr of somekind as long as it made sense and was well written but What they did in season 8 was insult. Tragedy of lazy writing
@@jedibrooks7235 thats not lazy writing , thats humans flaw all shown , D&D ego and greed , they wanted only their name as a writers in credits They could easily acknowledge their shortcomings and use competent writers help to finish GOT But as we seen they didnt They didnt want anyone else to have any fame of GOT What is interesting for me is to know , how HBO didn’t try to stop this madness
@@jedibrooks7235 My understanding was that they already had their eye on their next "project", which apparently involved lightsabers and spaceships. They effectively decided to cram four ten episode seasons worth of development and payoff into two shortened seasons. They were simply more interested in the next step of their careers than actually giving the project that gave them their profiles the ending it deserved. I felt that the show had already started to experience a decline in quality in seasons 5 and 6, which was largely due to them overtaking the books. However seasons 7 and particularly 8 were just so shockingly poor that they were insulting to everyone involved, from author, to cast, to the audience. I think what really drew people to GoT initially was that it had a lot of internal coherent and it broken the mould of almost every TV series prior to it in the way that the main character (Ned Stark) was killed off at the end of S1, which really gave a sense of unpredictability and that no character was safe. As the show progressed into the later seasons it abandoned the internal coherence and the plot armour forges were fired up to max output in order to compensate for lazier and lazier writing. It basically just became like every other TV series and movie of its generation with incoherent writing and character development (destruction?) just plastered over with hollow spectacle, which I think perfectly encompasses the final few episodes of S7 and S8; don't think about what's going on, just be sucked in my by the expensive CGI.
@@saeedyaghoubi331 that was noticeable in season 5. D&D could have easily done a season based on the fourth book,a feast for crows and then the 6th based a dance with dragons. But nope,they lazily combined the books into a terrible season and then just made an awful fanfic season 7 and 8. The thing that annoys me the most is how George and HBO just let them do whatever they wanted.
If you look at D&D's IMDB credits, it seems that their failure to successfully end Game of Thrones has cost them more than just credibility. Since the end of Game of Thrones, they were producers on a 6 episode show and a movie. That's it. The two men who were supposed to helm a new Star Wars trilogy fell off the face of the earth thanks to their poor decision making. I can't say I'm upset.
I was one of the first to conclude that they were going to rush the show in order to move onto the Star Wars project. Reason being the original direction the show intended to be 14 seasons or something of the sort so when I heard the announcement this was going to be the finale and That the writers just struck a Disney I just knew what was going to happen. It’s a shame really, they chose economical gain and a chance at working on a big brand IP over finishing a product they’ve been cultivating for years. Though they got what they deserved in the end and it’s good to hear what you’ve said. Still scars are scars, and what was once my favorite show of all time is now a straight dumpster fire. They messed it up so bad that it’s nearly impossible trying to enjoy a rewatch just because you know what happens to the story and how everything is just absolutely meaningless. I mean I remember before the season finale dropped I watched GOT three times over because it was that good. Now it’s not even worth anyone’s time
@@ates423 I agree with the feeling of being unable to rewatch the series. It really does feel like there is no reason to rewatch. I mean, you know that most of the characters that you loved will end up with an unsatisfying (which is putting it kindly) character arc conclusions. We can only hope now that GRRM finishes the book series. I'd love to see what the creator does when he is able to do the characters justice.
Good. It's about time people start learning that making shit products will have consequences, no matter who you think you are, no one shits gold and there's plenty of people out there more deserving and ready to take the place of the people who don't want to actually work
They deserve it. I had to stand by and watch for 5 fooking years as everyone would dick suck Dumb and Dumber. While im trying to explain to them they had a bible worth of material
The second Sansa appears in his story, Jon is undercut. She takes a huge portion of his agency, to the extent that he’s almost asking for her permission to do things.
Cutting Young Griff from the books, played a big part in the ending. I like the idea of Jon rejecting the throne and melting the iron throne after all the pain it has caused, but it was just executed so badly.
It would've been a cooler scene if a Targaryian descendant of Aegon the Conqueror decided to melt the Iron Throne and commands a dragon to do it. Cathartic even, as it would symbolize the destruction of a coveted object that has lost many lives to take it and if Jon decides to reign, it would be a symbol of rebirth in Westeros (which is doubly fitting since Jon would've been resurrected as Azor Ahai at that point).
@@ythandlename a Targaryen that has been brought up being told the throne is their birthright will never destroy or give up the throne, that’s exactly why Jon being Targaryen but raised a stark is absolutely key in this story. He has had to earn everything he’s had through sacrifice his whole life therefore he wants no part of the thing he’s seen turn good people into animals. It amazes me how many people can’t see this and are seemingly completely oblivious to the story George’s is telling.
@@ItsSVO I would believe this theory has some merit if the show didn't confirm the canonical ending king is Bran. That is literally the crux of the story, as the Night King certainly wasn't (in the show), so there's no way they're deviating from what George told them. It also explains how the cycle of "good king, bad son" will be broken as that is such a critical theme. Bran will never die, he will rule eternally, for good or ill.
The first minutes made me tear up. I haven't watched the show since the final episode premiered. Reminded me why I loved the show in the first place. For a while it was the best fantasy show and had the best fantasy protagonist(s). It breaks my heart how everything ended
I loved the story more than the show. Although I did think that it started off great. But like literally every story that is adapted from the novel into a show or movie, the books are SO MUCH BETTER. I started reading them in 1998, long before a TV show was even thought of, or anyone had even heard of A Game Of Thrones. I was pleasantly surprised at how good the first season was, but deep down I always knew that the show would not live up to the story in the books. It never does. It's simply impossible to put the kind of detail in a show, or tell the story the way its told, in 800, 900, and 1000+ page books.
@@mattjack3983 The show adaptations was great and on level whit the books for the molst part, then they ran out of things to adapt since JR Martin stoped writing and thus directing the series. D&D arent good, but atleast then can direct a series not that bad, as long as someone else is the writer.
@@stefankatsarov5806 it's started off great, and it followed the story in the books, for the most part, but it definitely was not on par with or as good as the story in the books.
The last two Seasons were super bad but you could already see the cracks in Season 5 and 6 sadly. The Quality went down alot half way through and got worse with every Season. Sure you still had some great Episodes and Moments here and there, but compared to Season 1-4 it feels like night and day. But i somehow pushed through with the little hope that it will get better.
You stand in the presence of Jon Snow, the White Wolf, 998th Lord Commander of the Nights Watch, Lord Snow defender of the wall, reclaimer of Winterfell, avenger of the Red Wedding, the resurrected, bedder of wildlings, slayer of Others, King in the North and of the Trident. is what you should have said Davo
I’ve always taken Jon coming back as a result of Shireen’s sacrifice. Melisandre made the sacrifice thinking it would bring Stannis victory, but she didn’t fully understand the plan of the Red God. Kings blood and all that.
Season 5 was where it started, but I feel like Season 6 was really where the characters started to slide into oblivion. Season 8 was just the oblivion they were destined for because of these writers.
I stopped watching in season 6 when Sansa and Jon reunited at Winterfell and they were bickering about something or another. It was so awful I just stopped and walked away after years of caring. Still haven't finished.
Yep. Season 5 is where the show began to jump the shark I hated the Braavos and Dorne storylines. From season 6 onward it gradually became more garbage but the signs were there from season 5.
@@MomoTheDisciple I feel like it was easy for me to see how bad the characters and plotline was fraying in 5 just because I watched from Season 1 to 6 all in a couple of months with my friend instead of over six years. It's jarring how some of them start acting, and how stupid some events get. Like Arya getting stabbed to pieces and tossed into sewer water but being fine after eating some pie.
@@benjamintherogue2421 Yeah you're absolutely right, the decline was gradual. It honestly irks me a little bit when people talk up season 6 like it was still good, but I do get it because the dip in quality is less noticeable if they're watching each season independently rather than all at once. When I rewatched the entire series with my girlfriend we couldn't even get through season 5/6 because it was just so much shittier than the 4 good seasons. I'm glad I spared her the pain of watching season 7 and 8.
I call it the marvel effect. In a big group while watching any piece of media you’ll be more compelled to show vocal emotion even if the scene is kinda stupid
Just remembered how in the end Tormand giants bain is portrayed as a "good guy" in the later seasons. But in the beginning he was killing innocent villagers
The show in seasons 1-4 didn’t have any complete “good guys” or “bad guys”. It was all very complex and morally grey. In the later seasons all complexity was thrown out the window and characters were either good or bad
“[Dany] put more energy into burning children than she did fighting the Night King.” OMFG! FACTS! I know this was about Jon Snow but that part made me angrier about season 8 than I already was.
1:56:52 AND THIS RIGHT HERE is what did it for me on this show. I wrote 2 novels (currently working on my 3rd) as a hobby and as a amateur writer, I know the importance of building up conflict and having a satisfactory ending (not necessarily the favorite or ideal: such as the death of Ned Stark). When a character who has no connection or relationship with the main antagonist finishes him off instead of the character perfectly built for that role, then it not only reeks of bad writing, but horrific story telling as well as insulting the intellect of the audience. I didn't start watching Game of Thrones until HBO Max became available so I didn't understand the hype/disappointment of the series until this exact moment. Thank you for pointing this out.
I’m 6 minutes into the video and I also already know exactly what you’re talking about. It was the very moment the show had finally died for me. I don’t think I’ve ever felt that empty watching any other show or movie ever. I mean god damn GoT season 8 makes Dexter season 8 seem not too bad by comparison and anyone who knows me knows how crazy of a statement that is.
I don't think it would've made much of difference since he was a commanding general in the rebellion. She'd, at the very least, have him take the black if she conquered the throne and he was still alive.
A wonderful video. Jon should have been king. For all of those saying that was too predictable, ending of stories shouldn’t come out of nowhere, especially not after reaching the halfway point. They need to be built up to. I guess the writers kind of forgot about storytelling and character development. Jon being king was built up to for eight seasons. It was the whole point of journey and the perfect ending to his arc and they fucked it up. They truly are dumb and dumber.
I don’t mind him not being king, but they could have done it better. He was not even considered or offered the throne. I feel going with the wildlings was best, it is where a bastard best fits in and he can be King Beyond The Wall
Jon had two options for the end of his arc. Either he becomes King and finally breaks the cycle of corruption, or he dies killing the Night King and becomes legend. These are the endings that were built up for him, and he got neither. My only hope is that they at least fix this in his new series.
If they didn’t F this show up, it would’ve been without question the best show of all time. Better than true detective s1, the sopranos, twin peaks, the wire, breaking bad… It’s such a shame they completely ruined all that beautiful writing and filmmaking
I haven't watched the earlier seasons of GOT since 2016 and seeing Jon's story again really hit hard. This video was extremely well done and the amount of content in it is impressive! Thank you for taking the time to make this.
That was excellent; I appreciate all the work it must have taken to put together! Its still hard to believe they were able to successfully ruin so completely what was about to become the best series in tv history. Absolutely epic fail.
I also "love" the scene where Sam fights walkers while laying down and crying... best scene to describe me to what showrunners did to the show. I will be in my grave thinking how they failed everyone...
I think Jake appeared when he was raised from the dead. Honestly I wouldn’t have cared who killed the big bad as long as Jon was there doing something. She could have been the sneaky back attack when Jon was staggered or fighting off all the others. Thank you for reminding me of the most infuriating phrase that hasn’t lessened in the years. “I guess, Dani just uh forgot about the Iron Fleet.”
As a book fan, watching the beginning of this video was fascinating. Seeing someone rave about the very same things that I hate about show Jon was interesting. Here is my take: Jon Snow was already desecrated from Season 2. In their attempt to have their own generic, aragorn-esque action hero - they turned a very well written, complex character into a clown. The writers really took "you know nothing Jon Snow" literally and made Jon Snow into the most idiotic, one dimensional, boring character in the entire series. In the show, Jon volunteers to join Qhorin Halfhand's ranging while in the books Qhorin picks him out and selects him to join because he has "the Stark look." Show Jon then proceeds to get everyone in his party killed by going after Ygritte like an idiot. In the books, he simply lets her go and returns to his ranging party which we learn later is what Qhorin wanted him to do all along. Book Jon is 14 and show Jon is an adult man and yet book Jon is the smarter one of the two. Show Jon got all of his companions killed and we're supposed to find him likable? They do this again at the end of season 4 where Jon volunteers to go speak to Mance. In the books, he's forced against his will to go to the wilding camp by Throne and Slynt. Jon pleads with them to send someone else because Jon knows that Mance despises him and they would have no chance of reaching terms with Jon as their representative. Jon in the show nonsensically decides to go on his own because "he's the only one Mance would listen to." What an idiot. The moment Jon Snow was ruined to the point where he no longer even resembled his book character was mid-season 4 when he goes on the absolutely bonkers mission to kill the mutineers at Craster's Keep. To start, the entire motivation of "we can't have the wildings find out that I lied about how many men we have" makes no sense since there is no reason for the wildings to even stop at Craster's Keep and they already know the poor condition the Night's Watch is in. The battle starts and it is straight up something out of a marvel movie. He fights a marvel villian and gets saved in the most marvel way I've ever seen. This is the moment where Jon Snow was reduced to a bumbling idiot who is only good with his sword. Jon in the books actually has a brain and is far too pragmatic in the later books to spare a force to go to that mind bogglingly dangerous territory when he can barely man the wall. Book Jon isn't even that good of a swordfighter. Jon's character takes a turn in the books when he is elected as Lord Commander (and is only elected because Sam rigged the election by the way). This is when he starts to make some morally questionable decisions. He threatens to murder Gilly's baby if she doesn't hand over her baby to him. He forces her to put her hand in a fire and all but tears her baby from her arms. He then forces Sam to go to the Citadel (in the show Sam requests to be sent, while in the books Jon has to force him to go) and take Gilly with him, but with Mance's baby instead of her own. He doesn't do this for no reason of course. He does it because he believes Melisandre might sacrifice Mance Rayder's son for his king's blood. He swaps the babies in hopes that it will stop Mel, but this is still the most morally ambiguous thing Jon has ever done, something show Jon could never do. They rid Jon of all of his flaws. Starting by making all of the Night's Watch racist bigots who simply hate the wildings. They kill Jon because he did the right thing of letting the wildings through. In the books, they actually have valid concerns against some of the decisions Jon is making. Jon doesn't martyr himself for the wildings in the books. He is killed because he **breaks his vows** and decides to go march on Ramsay after he's provoked by the pink letter (Jon believes that Ramsay is married to his sister, Arya). He reads the letter to everyone, incriminating himself in helping to fake Mance Rayder's death, recruits the wildings and announces his decision to go to war against Ramsay. That is when his brothers kill him, because he has broken his vows. He dies because he did the wrong thing. Show Jon dies because he did the right thing. Yawn. This "greatest twist of all time" that you're speaking of is one of the most nonsensical things that the show did. Jon is without a doubt the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna in the books. But him being legitimate, making him the true heir? Impossible. Rhaegar was already married to and had children with Elia Martell. You are not allowed to annul an already consummated marriage. This was just the show's way of doing the FAegon storyline without actually inclduing FAegon, right down to Jon's real name being Aegon Targaryen. It was a load of horseshit. Season 8 causes me physical pain so I'm not going to write anything except that "I don't want it, I never have" is the exact opposite of Book Jon. Book Jon is not opposed to power at all and wants to rise up and be appreciated.
I feel terrible for Jon honestly. The Jon of the books would never go that far, Jon can be manipulative and knows his duty, he proved it with Ygritte with whom I honestly think there was more between the two of them than Daenerys. This Jon of the later seasons is a lovesick man who does whatever Daenerys tells him to do or makes his decisions based on what she thinks.
Thank you for this, this must have been a lot of work, and it clearly paid off. Your analysis of their blatant incompetence is spot on. Thank you for voicing what I could not. I will send people to watch your vid if they want an in depth reason for me hating the directors and how they ruined my favourite series of all time. I love how I can rewatch the best bits once again, carefully put together for convenience too. Although, a shorter version of this would be very much appreciated. Thanks again, this must have been a mission.
@@jedibrooks7235 It's very well done, for those who love long-form content especially. We were all robbed, we may never know how the real Jon finishes his journey either. Maybe that is just as much a good thing as it is bad.
Well it’s 3am and I just finished watching this straight through. Phew I need to get my shit together. As for the video, this is about as thorough a takedown as can be made on the subject of Jon. Thanks for putting what millions of people were feeling into a clearly articulated video. GoT s8 is easily the biggest travesty in film and television history.
You'll never convince me ASOIAF is not Jon's story. Yet the show did our boy bad. Made him totally unneeded in the defeat of the biggest fight. What was the point? Arya killed the Night King. Dany took Kings Landing. Jon just went back where he started. Jon should of been King. Don't argue with me.
also I see no1 talking about Euron as as villain, he is one terrifying villain in the books and only line of him in the show that I can remmember "finger in bum" and "I am man who killed jaimy lannister"
I’m 39 mins in and this is acutely painful, the sheer calibre of character development is beautiful ❤ how it ends is like watching a unicorn being killed, slowly 😢
The symbolism of the direwolves determining the fate of the Stark kids is the oldest ASOIAF theory and I'm more convinced now than ever that Sansa and Jon's arcs will have the exact same end points as the show. How we get from point A to point B is the real question. GRRM from the very beginning has glowingly talked about how in LOTR Frodo plays his hero's role and is broken by that experience and how he would want the end of ASOIAF to be a poignant, bittersweet one. Jon is the most obvious choice for the character who will play their part in saving the world and be broken by it. I'm not talking about Azor Ahoi. That can be Stannis, Victarion, whoever. But Jon is the most likely candidate for the fallen angel arc. He's the one who will be forced to leave Westeros at the end of it all without any personal glory. The exiled hero is a staple of Greco-Roman tragedies. As for Sansa, she is the most suitable candidate to end the series the ruler of the north as the LADY of Winterfell (not Bran). It's the most fitting end for the Stark who was the "least" Stark, the one who wanted to leave the most and the one who now feels most strongly about returning. At the Vale she's one step closer to home and all directions point to her character finding her ultimate resolution at Winterfell. If Bran's only role was to end the Long Night then his direwolf's name would've been Dawn or Morning. Summer is indication that he will be the King of Summer and rule over a calm Westeros after the storm.
@@jedibrooks7235 I had watched every single episode up until the night siege on winterfell when it aired. My immersion was already shattered when dany teleported past the wall to save all of them in the previous season. I knew the show was tanking. But as I sat there watching with my gf, the worst episode of a tv series I’ve ever seen, I never gave GOT another minute of my time. I didn’t watch any more episodes past that seeing the entire army of the dead GONE IN ONE EPISODE. How an entire crew of thousands of people put together an episode like that is beyond me.
@@jedibrooks7235 It was actually painful to watch your video because I had to go back to all of these amazing characters moments not just for John but for others and then to know once again it would be pointless for me to go and rewatch with the new gf who has never seen it 😭😭😭😢
The ending was criminal. Thanks for the work on the video. I would love to see a video discussing what jon should have done and maybe how the ending should have gone for the arcs to have been satisfied
Let's not forget that Bran's "Why do you think I came all this way" confirms him to be a psychopath who knew exactly what would happen and did nothing stop any of it. That alone should've told Tyrion "Crap, I just helped elect a tyrant". Frankly, I prefer the leaked version over the garbage we got. Sure we would've lost a lot more characters, but it still would've been better than this. From what I remember of the leaked version: Long Night episode was smarter. The Night King is coming, everyone knows this. Instead of a Crypt option, the people who couldn't fight (Sam, Gilly, Melissandra, Tyrion, Dani's female advisor, and all the others) would be sent through an underground tunnel which would exit towards Eastwatch, though a bit further south. The battle plan has EVERYONE in Winterfel Castle (behind the gates & walls). The Dead attack, everyone struggles to keep them at bay, but like in the episode we got, the dead swarm in. Casualties of the Long Night: The Red Fighter guy (forgot his name), The Hound, Jaime Lannister, Grey Worm, and I think Brienne. Arya gets badly wounded to where she has lost an eye and can't walk for a while. Everyone else survives the battle, but barely. After they have killed the last Wight Walker general and last undead soldier, thats when they realize that the Night King never showed up. They ask Bran where he is, Bran goes into his vision state, and we see what Bran sees: a huge blizzard fast approaching King's Landing. The Night King on his undead dragon smiling at his approach. Cersei & everyone else at King's Landing is enveloped darkness. Scene cuts to black and all we hear at the end is the screaming of a million people dying. Later episodes would involve them trying to figure out how they could stop the Night King now. He'll be coming at them from the South, and with his army bolstered by over a million new soldiers, they'll be attack the other territories along the way. And Bran comes up with a way he might be able to stop him. There is a place called The Isle of Faces (its in the books btw), and if Bran connects with the tree there, he believes he'll be able to stop him before he is created, telling Jon & Daenerys about how he affected the past somehow. Everyone else able to fight has to hold off the dead for as long as possible while Bran tries to find a way. Dani & Jon with their 2 remaining Dragons will stay near Bran in case the Night King shows up. Fast forwarding ahead, cause I cant remember what happens in between: Bran touches the largest tree in the center, and he travels through time. While this is happening, everyone is struggling once again to slow the advance of the dead, and Jon & Dani are engaged with the Night King. Bran travels to Aerys Targaryen, tries to warn him of the dead showing him the future, but all Bran does is make him lose his mind to where all he said that Jaime remembers him constantly saying "BURN THEM ALL!" Bran comes out and goes back in, hoping maybe he can go further. He possesses the body of a man before the Wall is built, he for some reason though finds it difficult to return to his own body, and unfortunately this man can't walk either. Later he learns he possessed the Builder of the Wall, the man known as "Brandon The Builder" and gets the wall built. After its done, he can finally leave. Bran enters the past yet again, this time much further, back during the time when it was The First Men vs The Children. He possesses a First Man and seeks out the Children, hoping he can stop them from creating The Night King. However he is captured by the Children, they tie him to a tree, and gag him. Then Bran realizes the awful reality; he possessed the man who would become The Night King. Remember when the man was screaming as the dagger went into his chest during that sequence where Bran & 3 Eyed watched? That was Bran screaming. Then back in the current time, Bran's eyes turn cold blue. We see the events of the Night King, Bran has been taken over by the monster the Children made. But after the war ended, Bran regained control but his mind by then had already been lost. His war became that of Vengeance. Thats how he was able to see an touch Bran, thats how he was able to find the 3 Eyed Raven, thats why he took his time killing him, thats how he knew to bring Spears for the Dragons. They've been fighting Bran all along. Eventually during the sky battle, Dani's dragon is killed and falls to the ground with Dani barely alive. Jon goes to her, gets off, and the other Dragon seeing Dani barely alive flies back after the Night King. He checks on her, but she won't wake up. He then rushes to Bran to find out if he found a way, and to his horror sees Bran's ice cold blue eyes. Examining his brother, he sees a smile form on his face and the Night King finishes off the other Dragon and comes towards Jon. Jon realizes the truth, and just as the Night King is about to get there, Jon kills Bran, and the Night King dies, along with his entire army. Eventually, (quite a bit later) Jon is has claimed the Throne, as Aegon Targaryen. He was told of his birthright, but he never told anyone, not even Dani. He watches as the Red Keep is being demolished, The Iron Throne melted down, and talks about he has removed the very thing everyone fought for, making every Territory its own kingdom. And he's last seen holding a baby, wishing his son had known his mother; Dani. Arya does end sailing West for the same reason as in the show (spoiler, there is landmasses west of Westeros). Tyrion is ruler of the Reach, Blackwater gets Highgarden. While Jon is a Targaryen, the North still recognize him as King in The North. And all the other territories govern themselves. And with the Night King gone, the Wall is eventually demolished. Don't remember the rest, but I think it mostly ends with Jon hoping for a better future. I think the leaked version was around 10 or 12 episodes, with the last being what happens after Jon takes the throne an such.
In my opinion one of the most missed opportunities in the show is some kind of conversation between Jon and Jamie, because in some way they have similar traits to one another, it would be so interesting to see those two talk about joining a fellowship that they thought was the best and looked up to
Jaime would never do that because he cannot leave cercei. He’s bound to her much like Gollum is bound to the one ring, even though he knows it will bring about his death
@@ItsSVO too bad they didn’t go with Jaime’s book personality. The second he heard Cersei blew up the sept with wildfire, he would’ve bounced. The show destroyed many characters, but they truly massacred my boy Jaime
@@dragondream-ing You’ve completely fallen for George’s red herring, he’s exploring Jaime’s possible redemption currently and this will lead up to him leaving Cercei until he returns to her just like he does in the show, because that’s who Jaime is, a conflicted character at odds with what’s right and what he wants. George has said many times the point of his books is to explore the human heart conflicted and at odds with itself, Jaime is the perfect written example of a tragic and flawed anti hero. The show literally gave you George’s ending and did Jaime justice, you’ve just misunderstood the character completely just like people completely misunderstood Dany and are shocked when she does the very thing she’s been threatening to do since season 2.
Game of thrones ended so badly its actually physically painful. You'd think im joking with this statement but im not, you know that embarrassing memory from childhood or highschool you have and it makes you cringe and wince every time you suddenly think of it. Thats the exact same sensation i get when i think of game of thrones. Every time i remember it i cringe and wince or lash out in anger the very same way.
HBO could very easily hire some more competent writers, hire back the whole cast and just pretend season 7 and 8 never happened. Everyone would be all for it.
This is probably the greatest video I have ever seen. I am a huge fan. I’ve watched the seasons countless times now . I’m on my 2nd read through on the books. And I truly hope winds of winter will make up for the final season. All I can do is hope
We're not even going to get Winds of Winter. GRRM has shit the bed. He's too busy producing spin-off shows. The story isn't even finished and he's producing spin-offs. It seems like he's unsure how to end it properly or he's just content with the fame these shows have brought him.
Can I just say I'm impressed that anyone can take three hours to express how much they hate something. I don't think I could talk about how much I hate terrorism, communism, or the metric system for three hours.
@@jameswarner261no it doesn’t. Metric system is based on perfect measurements that don’t exist in the real world, it only “makes sense” to dullards who look at face value alone and say “oh, it has easily divisible units so it must be good”
I'm still grateful for Jon's mere existence as a character. Regardless of how the last season went, Jon has influenced me through the most trying times in my life and I'm a better man for it. This video has hit the nail on the head.
You know, they could save jon's story if they go the admiral Yi route, admiral yi for context climbed the ranks of the military multiple times and because of corruption, got shoved to some backwater place or demoted multiple times. Ended up single handily saving korea from a japanese invasion
@freddiesimmons1394 Korean, he's a national hero there. Held back a huge Japanese navy/army with a tiny force and never lost in his campaign that got him killed at the end.
the battle of the bastards will always be the turning point for me. It was then they essentially stamped jon the hero and then proceeded to dismantle his character while trying to put him center stage in every scene as though he were still important to the plot
Between myself and my friends, we've come up with about six different ways Game of Thrones should have ended. Even though none of us are professional writers, I'd pick any one of my friends' scenarios over what actually wound up on the screen.
If I hadn't already been sold on Jon as a character by then, him throwing a right hook while trying to fight a Wight unarmed at Hardhome would have done it for sure. Legend.
That was my goal. For someone who hasnt seen it to experience a piece of thr heart break n horror we went through. This show could have been something special
@@jedibrooks7235 Thx for replying, I absolutely love your content! I know that D&D really let y’all down, but I do think GRRM should get more criticism. My understanding is that the ending we got is what HE wanted; the execution just sucked so much! Frankly, the ending could’ve worked, but only if it had been paced appropriately. When D&D started the show they were confident GRRM would finish the books soon and here we are 13 yrs later and the books will never be finished. GRRM has become just as pretentious as D&D.
I have never seen this show, nor read the books. My knowledge of its story is almost nothing. But holy HECK you did a fantastic job presenting this story so the least common denominator (me) could understand how bad this was. Fantastic job.
Wow man….thank you for this project you put together. Now….if you could make one explaining what was going on with Dan and Dave Behind the scenes, that would be very informative.
I can except Dany going crazy like her father and John Snow turning into Jake but what a freaking let down with the Night king. He should’ve had an extensive fight sequence with John at the very least
I read the books well before the HBO show. Once the show started, I felt like a world I imagined in my mind and loved came to life. Starting around season 5 I started to notice slight issues, yet was fully committed and eventually got my husband into it. When Arya killed the night king, my anger at the show and myself for continuing to watch was growing… Yet, when Rhagar was killed by that dipshit version of Euron Greyjoy, I turned it off. My husband was like what’s wrong, don’t you want to know how it ends?!?. I simply said nope, fuck this show and fuck Dan and Dave for destroying a world I loved.
I mean I see how euron coulda been one of the ones to kill one of dany's dragon. However I doubt it'd be the 2nd one to die. More likely the 1st if not only one, which would later be resurrected by the undead, potentially a nights king in the books (who I theorize would be robb stark resurrected by the others, after lady stoneheart pieces his body back together and leaves him in the crypt in winterfell). Except in the books Euron would use the dragon horn to either bring the dragon down or bind it to himself, forcing dany to use drogon to kill one of her own dragons. Season 7 was kinda shit, but had its moments. Season 8 was.. ...to call it a clusterfuck would be an insult to a clusterfuck. It's like they intentionally made it horrendous and ruin literally years of plot points. Also, side note: if jon and dany do get together in the books like everyone is hoping and praying to george to do, neither would give a single fuck about the incest bit. It was just part of the culture at the time. Dany's parents were brother and sister I believe. Before she was married off to Drogo, she had the notion of marrying her brother viserys. Also it wouldnt necessarily cause a rift between them. If anything it be more of a "well a queen needs a king. Doesn't matter to me which of us sits the throne, as long as we do this ...together". Dany would still be queen, jon would still be king just with less power disparity between the king/queen dynamic. I even foresee dany getting pregnant after one of the dragons die, and her giving birth to a healthy baby. Then once they've destroyed the dissidants in kings landing, and the army of the dead finally arrives near kings landing; jon having to mercy kill dany after her dragon is shot down and crushing her almost completely to death with only minutes to spare as jon has to plunge his blade into her heart to end her suffering and pulling it out as lightbringer. Then raising some of his own dead that the white walkers havent reclaimed, turning the tide as fire wights and ice wights duke it out and jon and a (hopefully white walker rob) nights king duke it out, both mutually killing eachother in the process. The baby gets raised by sansa as queen regent until the baby is of age. Thus ending and tying up The Song of Ice and Fire. But I also foresee future books where the baby grows up, becomes king/queen but tensions rise in the east as the slavers and the golden company lead by Aegon/"young griff" come-a-knockin' as dany stole the lands from the slavers and this child stole the throne from griff, who is supposedly Aegon, first born son of Rhaegar and rightful heir. However this child has dragon and dragon eggs and with brans blood-raveny-ness has began hatching some of them but griff has a much, much larger army. But that last bit is only if george lives long enough to tell it
Why? Because Jon saw him a couple times from thousands of feet away? Maybe it should have been Bran, with a secret obsidian shiv. That would have more thematic impact considering his disability, and Bran had more connection with the Night King anyway. Or maybe they were in a desperate situation, using flawed tactics against an enemy they didn't understand, and they were lucky anyone made it? You have to leave room for realism, the Night King always had them beat. Go like Tolkien, call it a eucatastrophe. Putting NK on Jon's blade because "they're both leaders" or whatever would just be another kind of (more cliche) contrivance.
Like, if they never resurrect Jon would the story be worse when someone else takes the night king out? Can it not be satisfying for someone to take on his mantle? Nobody "should" have it. But yes, it should feel earned by someone. The Arya turn sucks because it doesn't feel remotely earned.
@@freddiesimmons1394 I suppose. Appreciate the actual thought, by the way. I think it comes down to me being sold on the fluid and unfamiliar style of "water dancing." Take an approach to combat that is unfamiliar to any westerosi knight, and I can suspend my disbelief for Arya v. Brienne. Particularly an art so focused on the mis/direction of momentum as braavosi swordplay seems to be. It's reminiscent of aikido, which any decently trained practitioner can use to get an edge on a larger opponent. She may have spent a short time training, but we see her aptitude when she's only 9 in winterfell. If it's not entirely earned, I buy that it's at least foreshadowed well. She learns a martial art that is fundamentally about turning her enemies strength to her advantage, seems the only thing to do against NK. They definitely should have shown her progress from the keep to the godswood though, felt very cheap for her to just appear there.
They don’t specifically mention Jon being a Tagaryen until season 6 or 7. The first reveal around 1:17:35 that you mentioned, was just revealing that Jon wasn’t actually Ned Stark’s bastard, but instead Lyanna’s baby.
I did not read the loot train battle as Dany ignoring Jons advice, quite the opposite. Jon adviced her against going to Kings Landing and burning it. Not fighting soldiers on the battlefield. I also cant make sense of why the blood relation between Jon and Dany is an issue. It has been the tradition for the targaryens throught the times. If any conflict should lie in it, it should be Dany encouraging their marriage, but Jon refusing. It would be foreing to him, but not to her
The relation wouldn’t have been a problem if D&D had any sense. Book Jon wouldn’t even bat an eye. Uncle-niece and aunt-nephew pairings aren’t considered incest in Westeros, and for Targaryens they’re super tame. Even the Starks have at least 2 uncle-niece marriages in their relatively recent family tree. So many things about the later seasons of the show make me cringe lol
I would still be rewatching this show if they had kept the integrity of the first 3 seasons. I would have bought DVDs, all the merchandise etc. I would have been loyal if only they had.
The showrunners decided they would rather appeal to the larger audience that treated GoT as a soccer world cup final instead of a rich character-driven narrative. The show degraded slowly after season 4, from character-building, good writing, meaningful dialogue and politics to big spectacle, cheesy cliches, abrupt twists and a fucking zombie polar bear. The entire last three seasons - with the exception of a few moments sprinkled here and there - were a discrace compared to the first ones.
Exactly. They fell in love with the spectacle and twitter reactions. Forgot what got them there. Forever bitter about those lazt seasoms but nothing compares to s8!!!!
Just watching the Hardhome scenes again sent chills down my fucking spine, Miguel Sapochnik really knew how to direct an episode and his first outing was phenomenal
I was and always will be a loyal Bannermen of the one True King Stannis of the house Baratheon but John was a good man and would have been a good king. The destruction of his character is absolutely tragic and GoT is dead to me
Seeing the video of the groups of people watching the episodes in the Bar is bringing back memories of how incredible the community around this show was. It was the last real appointment TV. Such a cultural phenomenon... when will we get a season 8 remake.
Then we get a great visual scene. "Drogan rises out of the ashes from kings landing as a mythical bouncer ready to check johns ID" 🤣 That was just too funny. It's very sad tho how this wonderful series completely got ruined bc Dan n Dave had star wars anticipation n decided to kill every character on this show for cheap n lazy writing!!
I maintain that if they wanted to go down that same route with Jon watching Greyworm start to kill unarmed surrendered soldiers, Jon should have killed Greyworm there.
I hated finding out John is a Targaryen and seeing how Drogon looked at him so familiarly… then the writers fucked up a good thing. We could’ve had 13 seasons 😭
Jon being a Targaryen is important for exactly the reasons you saw, it’s so he can give up the throne and see the right of succession based on a bloodline be severed for good. The reason he’s able to do this whereas other Targs aren’t is because he was brought up a stark and not a Targaryen, that’s the whole point and the subversion of the secret prince trope George is going for. He’s ice and fire, the balance.
@@ItsSVO I agree. I just meant it was sad because Drogon knew before him and because of this, how we found out was so forced and rushed. I just worded it weirdly compared to how I thought in my mind. Lol.
The creepiest thing was seeing GoT vanish from popular culture in weeks. It's hard to express how popular the show was before the finale, and how little people cared a month after. The entire zeitgeist around the show changed in 1 month.
@@Armadan7 Yep yep. The ending is so bad that it even makes it hard to replay ME2. That game is fantastic, but it is hard to care when everything is leading to Ghost Child, and the writers went out of their way to debunk the indocrination theory -- the only theory that could salvage the last game -- in interviews after the fact.
I understand that they were told Bran was to be king in the book, but, I feel like the show could’ve gotten away with an alternate ending, since at that point it was sort of it’s own thing. Jon should’ve beaten the night king, and opposed Dany when she started to show cracks in her sanity (which needed more time to develop. Maybe even another season tbh) and he should’ve been king.
Dany has literally been threatening to take what’s hers with fire and blood and promising to burn cities to the ground for like 6 or so seasons and people still like “he descent needed more time” or maybe, you should’ve been actually paying attention to her immoral acts and self righteous justice instead of who she was doing it to. George is a clever writer.
@@fightingmedialounge519 Threats don’t tend to become actions if you have advisors or friends to reason with you. We see what happens once Dany no longer had the voices of reason, she does what she’s threatened to do because that’s who she is and has been for a long time.
@@ItsSVO except she still had advisers and people who cared about her, so that excuse doesn't really fly. Also her burning parts of city except for the place that would be more beneficial for her to attack in her really what she threatened to do.
The killing of Jon Snow was the point the show died to me, and I didn't return until the final season (and what a waste that turned out to be), because it was at that point the writers decided the show no longer had any consequences to any actions the characters took. They killed Jon Snow for shock value, and resurrected him without any cost. Allow me to explain. As a writer, you can kill a major character if doing so drives the plot and services the wider story, point in case of this for GoT was the killing of the popular Rob Stark, who up until the Red Wedding, was the hero of the show, but in killing him they reset the board, one again showing how the Lannisters new how the game was played, and the Starks did not, and in doing so they allowed Jon Snow to rise as the new hero. How was the plot moved forward by Jon's death, who rose to replace him? What was gained by it? Most important, what was the cost? Let's take the death of Spock in Star Trek as the perfect example of how to write a major character death. In Star Trek 2 Spock nobly sacrifices himself to save the ship and the crew. It's a great scene that pays off in the very next movie. In that we see the Enterprise limp home, Kirk is a broken man, Bones is put in the funny farm because they think he's gone insane when he's actually carrying around Spock's soul. The line that nails it, the line that justifies Spock's resurrection comes at the end of the movie. He wasn't just resurrected by the Genesis effect, Kirk is asked an important question. He's asked why? Sarek, Spock's father, asks him why he did it when it cost him his career, his ship, and the life of his son to rescue his friend, and Kirk replies, "because if I hadn't, the cost would have been my soul". Kirk sacrificed everything to remain true to the man he was. In contrast, GoT just kills Jon Snow, and at the beginning of the very next season he returns to life, the traitors are rounded up and hanged, and there is no cost, no consequence to anything they did. Everyone's like "well I guess he's in charge again". This is the anthesis of how to write. If there was no cost to be paid they could have easily had the betrayal exposed before the murder, or Jon's return could have split the Watch right down the middle causing a civil war within the ranks, any number of options they could have gone for and they didn't do anything. From that point on it said that the show had no consequences to any decision it made, and that's why we see season 8. Daenerys going mad, Jon becoming a shell, none of it mattered because the writers had already established there was no consequences for them being so, and without consequences there could be no pay off. GoT died at the end of Season 5, it was already a skin suit by the time Season 8 came around.
Exelent video! I would however like to point out that in the books, Jon dies because he wants to take the Nights Watch south to retake Winterfell, not because he let the wildlings behind the wall. So his death is actually well justified. He is also killed by his servants and its basically their job to kill the lord commander if he would dare to take NW against anything else than dangers in the north.
![ลองสุ่มไอโฟน 990 โกงมั้ย? [ โกงมั้ยครับ ep.101 ] | DOM](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/bfsWe0j492k/mqdefault.jpg)
Jon Snow is the most accurate depiction of "look how they massacred my boy" meme/quote ever
Him and Dany and Jaime smh
Perfection in this comment
😂😂😂
Eren on his way to join the boys: 🕊️
So true but can also be applied to EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER except maybe Theon and grey worm
Imagine an incredible show with a finale so bad that you actively regret telling people to watch it
I just tell people not to watch past season 5.
@@johnv6806 the whole point of the show is waiting for the big end
@@johnv6806 this isn't like westworld, where you can see the first two seasons and ignore the rest.
@@GlizzyGoblin757 not if the big end is garbage. If I could I would have stopped watching around the time oberyn was killed knowing what I know now.
@@Force_Of_Habit I recommend people ASOIAF even though those will never been finished.
Hell, stopping at season 5 is the genuine experience
"I can never be Lord of Winterfell. I can never be Lord of anything. I'm the three-eyed raven."
"How about king of like everything?"
"Hell yeah baby let's do this"
All hail bran the broken!
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
A absolute writing Desaster 🤡💩
Bran was clarifying he was no longer Bran, but merely mankind’s memories. Mankind came all that way, not Bran
Damnit, now I wish Bran would have said "Hell yeah baby"
"The next time we see each other, we'll talk about your mother."
That line never stopped hurting.
The Hand would have as many opportunities to travel to Castle Black as a sworn brother of The Night's watch would have to travel to King's Landing. Ned was aware they'd never see eachother again. Jon wasnt....he had only ever taken Ned at face value. They kinda started and ended on a lie from Ned both with the intent of protecting him.
I don't even mind dany going rogue or jon snow being a tragic character. But the ending was so rushed it felt like everything the had been building up to was thrown out the window.
Ill take it one step further, i wanted to see dany become a villian and jon be a martyr of somekind as long as it made sense and was well written but What they did in season 8 was insult. Tragedy of lazy writing
@@jedibrooks7235 thats not lazy writing , thats humans flaw all shown , D&D ego and greed , they wanted only their name as a writers in credits
They could easily acknowledge their shortcomings and use competent writers help to finish GOT
But as we seen they didnt
They didnt want anyone else to have any fame of GOT
What is interesting for me is to know , how HBO didn’t try to stop this madness
@@saeedyaghoubi331 shat app
@@jedibrooks7235 My understanding was that they already had their eye on their next "project", which apparently involved lightsabers and spaceships. They effectively decided to cram four ten episode seasons worth of development and payoff into two shortened seasons. They were simply more interested in the next step of their careers than actually giving the project that gave them their profiles the ending it deserved.
I felt that the show had already started to experience a decline in quality in seasons 5 and 6, which was largely due to them overtaking the books. However seasons 7 and particularly 8 were just so shockingly poor that they were insulting to everyone involved, from author, to cast, to the audience.
I think what really drew people to GoT initially was that it had a lot of internal coherent and it broken the mould of almost every TV series prior to it in the way that the main character (Ned Stark) was killed off at the end of S1, which really gave a sense of unpredictability and that no character was safe. As the show progressed into the later seasons it abandoned the internal coherence and the plot armour forges were fired up to max output in order to compensate for lazier and lazier writing. It basically just became like every other TV series and movie of its generation with incoherent writing and character development (destruction?) just plastered over with hollow spectacle, which I think perfectly encompasses the final few episodes of S7 and S8; don't think about what's going on, just be sucked in my by the expensive CGI.
@@saeedyaghoubi331 that was noticeable in season 5. D&D could have easily done a season based on the fourth book,a feast for crows and then the 6th based a dance with dragons. But nope,they lazily combined the books into a terrible season and then just made an awful fanfic season 7 and 8.
The thing that annoys me the most is how George and HBO just let them do whatever they wanted.
If you look at D&D's IMDB credits, it seems that their failure to successfully end Game of Thrones has cost them more than just credibility. Since the end of Game of Thrones, they were producers on a 6 episode show and a movie. That's it. The two men who were supposed to helm a new Star Wars trilogy fell off the face of the earth thanks to their poor decision making. I can't say I'm upset.
I was one of the first to conclude that they were going to rush the show in order to move onto the Star Wars project. Reason being the original direction the show intended to be 14 seasons or something of the sort so when I heard the announcement this was going to be the finale and That the writers just struck a Disney I just knew what was going to happen.
It’s a shame really, they chose economical gain and a chance at working on a big brand IP over finishing a product they’ve been cultivating for years. Though they got what they deserved in the end and it’s good to hear what you’ve said.
Still scars are scars, and what was once my favorite show of all time is now a straight dumpster fire. They messed it up so bad that it’s nearly impossible trying to enjoy a rewatch just because you know what happens to the story and how everything is just absolutely meaningless. I mean I remember before the season finale dropped I watched GOT three times over because it was that good. Now it’s not even worth anyone’s time
@@ates423 I agree with the feeling of being unable to rewatch the series. It really does feel like there is no reason to rewatch. I mean, you know that most of the characters that you loved will end up with an unsatisfying (which is putting it kindly) character arc conclusions.
We can only hope now that GRRM finishes the book series. I'd love to see what the creator does when he is able to do the characters justice.
Good. It's about time people start learning that making shit products will have consequences, no matter who you think you are, no one shits gold and there's plenty of people out there more deserving and ready to take the place of the people who don't want to actually work
They deserve it. I had to stand by and watch for 5 fooking years as everyone would dick suck Dumb and Dumber. While im trying to explain to them they had a bible worth of material
@@ates423 Just watch the first four seasons with the idea in your head that they are ASOIAF given life by fans and they never got past book 3.
The second Sansa appears in his story, Jon is undercut. She takes a huge portion of his agency, to the extent that he’s almost asking for her permission to do things.
Years later and this video is as valid as day 1. Eff Dumb and Dumber.
Cutting Young Griff from the books, played a big part in the ending. I like the idea of Jon rejecting the throne and melting the iron throne after all the pain it has caused, but it was just executed so badly.
Yeah, Gigachad Young Griff would have been sick as fuck on the series, the man is almost an opposite to his supposed aunt and supposed brother.
It would've been a cooler scene if a Targaryian descendant of Aegon the Conqueror decided to melt the Iron Throne and commands a dragon to do it. Cathartic even, as it would symbolize the destruction of a coveted object that has lost many lives to take it and if Jon decides to reign, it would be a symbol of rebirth in Westeros (which is doubly fitting since Jon would've been resurrected as Azor Ahai at that point).
@@ythandlename a Targaryen that has been brought up being told the throne is their birthright will never destroy or give up the throne, that’s exactly why Jon being Targaryen but raised a stark is absolutely key in this story. He has had to earn everything he’s had through sacrifice his whole life therefore he wants no part of the thing he’s seen turn good people into animals. It amazes me how many people can’t see this and are seemingly completely oblivious to the story George’s is telling.
@@ItsSVO seriously thats his whole point as a character
@@ItsSVO I would believe this theory has some merit if the show didn't confirm the canonical ending king is Bran. That is literally the crux of the story, as the Night King certainly wasn't (in the show), so there's no way they're deviating from what George told them. It also explains how the cycle of "good king, bad son" will be broken as that is such a critical theme. Bran will never die, he will rule eternally, for good or ill.
The first minutes made me tear up. I haven't watched the show since the final episode premiered. Reminded me why I loved the show in the first place. For a while it was the best fantasy show and had the best fantasy protagonist(s). It breaks my heart how everything ended
I loved the story more than the show. Although I did think that it started off great. But like literally every story that is adapted from the novel into a show or movie, the books are SO MUCH BETTER. I started reading them in 1998, long before a TV show was even thought of, or anyone had even heard of A Game Of Thrones. I was pleasantly surprised at how good the first season was, but deep down I always knew that the show would not live up to the story in the books. It never does. It's simply impossible to put the kind of detail in a show, or tell the story the way its told, in 800, 900, and 1000+ page books.
@@mattjack3983 The show adaptations was great and on level whit the books for the molst part, then they ran out of things to adapt since JR Martin stoped writing and thus directing the series.
D&D arent good, but atleast then can direct a series not that bad, as long as someone else is the writer.
@@stefankatsarov5806 it's started off great, and it followed the story in the books, for the most part, but it definitely was not on par with or as good as the story in the books.
Battle of the bastards and hardhome went hard af
The last two Seasons were super bad but you could already see the cracks in Season 5 and 6 sadly.
The Quality went down alot half way through and got worse with every Season.
Sure you still had some great Episodes and Moments here and there, but compared to Season 1-4 it feels like night and day.
But i somehow pushed through with the little hope that it will get better.
You stand in the presence of Jon Snow, the White Wolf, 998th Lord Commander of the Nights Watch, Lord Snow defender of the wall, reclaimer of Winterfell, avenger of the Red Wedding, the resurrected, bedder of wildlings, slayer of Others, King in the North and of the Trident.
is what you should have said Davo
Sounds like something D&D would write
@@AliRizwanMasood nah, that was actually good...a lot better than "this is Jon Snow" followed by a moment of silence.
I’ve always taken Jon coming back as a result of Shireen’s sacrifice. Melisandre made the sacrifice thinking it would bring Stannis victory, but she didn’t fully understand the plan of the Red God. Kings blood and all that.
Season 5 was where it started, but I feel like Season 6 was really where the characters started to slide into oblivion. Season 8 was just the oblivion they were destined for because of these writers.
Perfect comment, so true, and it’s unfortunate that a lot of people still seem to be like, well, it’s was only S8 really.
I stopped watching in season 6 when Sansa and Jon reunited at Winterfell and they were bickering about something or another. It was so awful I just stopped and walked away after years of caring. Still haven't finished.
Yep. Season 5 is where the show began to jump the shark I hated the Braavos and Dorne storylines.
From season 6 onward it gradually became more garbage but the signs were there from season 5.
@@MomoTheDisciple I feel like it was easy for me to see how bad the characters and plotline was fraying in 5 just because I watched from Season 1 to 6 all in a couple of months with my friend instead of over six years. It's jarring how some of them start acting, and how stupid some events get. Like Arya getting stabbed to pieces and tossed into sewer water but being fine after eating some pie.
@@benjamintherogue2421 Yeah you're absolutely right, the decline was gradual. It honestly irks me a little bit when people talk up season 6 like it was still good, but I do get it because the dip in quality is less noticeable if they're watching each season independently rather than all at once. When I rewatched the entire series with my girlfriend we couldn't even get through season 5/6 because it was just so much shittier than the 4 good seasons. I'm glad I spared her the pain of watching season 7 and 8.
The cheering at Jaime's caveman-tier attempt to kill Daenerys and his inexplicable saving at the hands of Bronn killed me.
I call it the marvel effect. In a big group while watching any piece of media you’ll be more compelled to show vocal emotion even if the scene is kinda stupid
Ppl are inn love with villains literally just because of the bad boy vibes, nothing else.
SeanTankTop is the NPC headquarters. D&D probably wrote season 5-8 with those guys in mind.
@@notsureyet2200 Oh wow. The guy actually leaves those videos up on TH-cam for all to see. That's embarassing.
@@asimhussain8716wow. Well said
Just remembered how in the end Tormand giants bain is portrayed as a "good guy" in the later seasons.
But in the beginning he was killing innocent villagers
The show in seasons 1-4 didn’t have any complete “good guys” or “bad guys”. It was all very complex and morally grey. In the later seasons all complexity was thrown out the window and characters were either good or bad
The villagers were evil
@@AC-hj9tvOllie was proof of that.
“[Dany] put more energy into burning children than she did fighting the Night King.” OMFG! FACTS! I know this was about Jon Snow but that part made me angrier about season 8 than I already was.
2 hours in and I don't think I can continue.
It hurts too much.
1:56:52 AND THIS RIGHT HERE is what did it for me on this show. I wrote 2 novels (currently working on my 3rd) as a hobby and as a amateur writer, I know the importance of building up conflict and having a satisfactory ending (not necessarily the favorite or ideal: such as the death of Ned Stark). When a character who has no connection or relationship with the main antagonist finishes him off instead of the character perfectly built for that role, then it not only reeks of bad writing, but horrific story telling as well as insulting the intellect of the audience. I didn't start watching Game of Thrones until HBO Max became available so I didn't understand the hype/disappointment of the series until this exact moment. Thank you for pointing this out.
What are your books about? Are they available?
I’m only 30 minutes into this incredible video analysis and I know exactly what scene you refer to without clicking on it.
I’m 6 minutes into the video and I also already know exactly what you’re talking about. It was the very moment the show had finally died for me. I don’t think I’ve ever felt that empty watching any other show or movie ever. I mean god damn GoT season 8 makes Dexter season 8 seem not too bad by comparison and anyone who knows me knows how crazy of a statement that is.
Why did Tyrion or Varys never tell Dayneres that Ned Stark was against Robert killer her?? It always annoyed me.
I don't think it would've made much of difference since he was a commanding general in the rebellion. She'd, at the very least, have him take the black if she conquered the throne and he was still alive.
Because the characters don’t get to have conversations in the later seasons
I wish there was a comp of every character saying “we’ll talk when i return” and then never returns
I've never seen a show go from absolute hype to pure silence in such a short period of time
A wonderful video. Jon should have been king. For all of those saying that was too predictable, ending of stories shouldn’t come out of nowhere, especially not after reaching the halfway point. They need to be built up to. I guess the writers kind of forgot about storytelling and character development. Jon being king was built up to for eight seasons. It was the whole point of journey and the perfect ending to his arc and they fucked it up. They truly are dumb and dumber.
I don’t mind him not being king, but they could have done it better. He was not even considered or offered the throne. I feel going with the wildlings was best, it is where a bastard best fits in and he can be King Beyond The Wall
Jon had two options for the end of his arc. Either he becomes King and finally breaks the cycle of corruption, or he dies killing the Night King and becomes legend. These are the endings that were built up for him, and he got neither. My only hope is that they at least fix this in his new series.
honestly im willing to bet Bran being king was in the notes Martin gave the writers, but they just fucked it up so badly
@@MrKingYuji He is NOT a bastard!
The perfect ending would be for him to become legend by fighting off the long night, the throne could go to his brother and aunt
Jon's crowning was honestly one of the last few good scenes in the show. It's still so upsetting how they squandered the last season.
Seasons
Sigh
Season 5 and 6 were aleady medicore compared to the first 4 and Season 7 was nearly as bad as Season 8 too.
Its not only the ending that was bad.
If they didn’t F this show up, it would’ve been without question the best show of all time. Better than true detective s1, the sopranos, twin peaks, the wire, breaking bad…
It’s such a shame they completely ruined all that beautiful writing and filmmaking
Such a damn shame
Its even sadder when you realize there was so many side character they could have expanded it for 3 more seasons
I haven't watched the earlier seasons of GOT since 2016 and seeing Jon's story again really hit hard. This video was extremely well done and the amount of content in it is impressive! Thank you for taking the time to make this.
That was excellent; I appreciate all the work it must have taken to put together! Its still hard to believe they were able to successfully ruin so completely what was about to become the best series in tv history. Absolutely epic fail.
I also "love" the scene where Sam fights walkers while laying down and crying... best scene to describe me to what showrunners did to the show. I will be in my grave thinking how they failed everyone...
Hard to remember that this show was once good. John Snow was one of my favorites. Good video.
I think Jake appeared when he was raised from the dead. Honestly I wouldn’t have cared who killed the big bad as long as Jon was there doing something. She could have been the sneaky back attack when Jon was staggered or fighting off all the others. Thank you for reminding me of the most infuriating phrase that hasn’t lessened in the years. “I guess, Dani just uh forgot about the Iron Fleet.”
Dont forget. "I dont want it.I never have" or "She's ma Queen" The only words D&D think Jon can say after season 6
As a book fan, watching the beginning of this video was fascinating. Seeing someone rave about the very same things that I hate about show Jon was interesting. Here is my take:
Jon Snow was already desecrated from Season 2. In their attempt to have their own generic, aragorn-esque action hero - they turned a very well written, complex character into a clown. The writers really took "you know nothing Jon Snow" literally and made Jon Snow into the most idiotic, one dimensional, boring character in the entire series.
In the show, Jon volunteers to join Qhorin Halfhand's ranging while in the books Qhorin picks him out and selects him to join because he has "the Stark look." Show Jon then proceeds to get everyone in his party killed by going after Ygritte like an idiot. In the books, he simply lets her go and returns to his ranging party which we learn later is what Qhorin wanted him to do all along. Book Jon is 14 and show Jon is an adult man and yet book Jon is the smarter one of the two. Show Jon got all of his companions killed and we're supposed to find him likable? They do this again at the end of season 4 where Jon volunteers to go speak to Mance. In the books, he's forced against his will to go to the wilding camp by Throne and Slynt. Jon pleads with them to send someone else because Jon knows that Mance despises him and they would have no chance of reaching terms with Jon as their representative. Jon in the show nonsensically decides to go on his own because "he's the only one Mance would listen to." What an idiot.
The moment Jon Snow was ruined to the point where he no longer even resembled his book character was mid-season 4 when he goes on the absolutely bonkers mission to kill the mutineers at Craster's Keep. To start, the entire motivation of "we can't have the wildings find out that I lied about how many men we have" makes no sense since there is no reason for the wildings to even stop at Craster's Keep and they already know the poor condition the Night's Watch is in. The battle starts and it is straight up something out of a marvel movie. He fights a marvel villian and gets saved in the most marvel way I've ever seen. This is the moment where Jon Snow was reduced to a bumbling idiot who is only good with his sword. Jon in the books actually has a brain and is far too pragmatic in the later books to spare a force to go to that mind bogglingly dangerous territory when he can barely man the wall. Book Jon isn't even that good of a swordfighter.
Jon's character takes a turn in the books when he is elected as Lord Commander (and is only elected because Sam rigged the election by the way). This is when he starts to make some morally questionable decisions. He threatens to murder Gilly's baby if she doesn't hand over her baby to him. He forces her to put her hand in a fire and all but tears her baby from her arms. He then forces Sam to go to the Citadel (in the show Sam requests to be sent, while in the books Jon has to force him to go) and take Gilly with him, but with Mance's baby instead of her own. He doesn't do this for no reason of course. He does it because he believes Melisandre might sacrifice Mance Rayder's son for his king's blood. He swaps the babies in hopes that it will stop Mel, but this is still the most morally ambiguous thing Jon has ever done, something show Jon could never do.
They rid Jon of all of his flaws. Starting by making all of the Night's Watch racist bigots who simply hate the wildings. They kill Jon because he did the right thing of letting the wildings through. In the books, they actually have valid concerns against some of the decisions Jon is making. Jon doesn't martyr himself for the wildings in the books. He is killed because he **breaks his vows** and decides to go march on Ramsay after he's provoked by the pink letter (Jon believes that Ramsay is married to his sister, Arya). He reads the letter to everyone, incriminating himself in helping to fake Mance Rayder's death, recruits the wildings and announces his decision to go to war against Ramsay. That is when his brothers kill him, because he has broken his vows. He dies because he did the wrong thing. Show Jon dies because he did the right thing. Yawn.
This "greatest twist of all time" that you're speaking of is one of the most nonsensical things that the show did. Jon is without a doubt the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna in the books. But him being legitimate, making him the true heir? Impossible. Rhaegar was already married to and had children with Elia Martell. You are not allowed to annul an already consummated marriage. This was just the show's way of doing the FAegon storyline without actually inclduing FAegon, right down to Jon's real name being Aegon Targaryen. It was a load of horseshit.
Season 8 causes me physical pain so I'm not going to write anything except that "I don't want it, I never have" is the exact opposite of Book Jon. Book Jon is not opposed to power at all and wants to rise up and be appreciated.
Man that bar was dead silent when they made Daenerys go nuts. Same bar that was once cheering for everything. What a let down
So glad you included Mauler's commentary on the dragon getting hit by the scorpions and Jon snubbing Ghost.
I feel terrible for Jon honestly. The Jon of the books would never go that far, Jon can be manipulative and knows his duty, he proved it with Ygritte with whom I honestly think there was more between the two of them than Daenerys. This Jon of the later seasons is a lovesick man who does whatever Daenerys tells him to do or makes his decisions based on what she thinks.
Yeah, they turned him into a simp for no reason
Thank you for this, this must have been a lot of work, and it clearly paid off. Your analysis of their blatant incompetence is spot on. Thank you for voicing what I could not. I will send people to watch your vid if they want an in depth reason for me hating the directors and how they ruined my favourite series of all time. I love how I can rewatch the best bits once again, carefully put together for convenience too. Although, a shorter version of this would be very much appreciated. Thanks again, this must have been a mission.
I love this.
I would prefer the just narration version of it too. Thanks for the content mate. Subscribed.
Spent my entire covid lockdown putting that beast together ty for the love
@@jedibrooks7235 It's very well done, for those who love long-form content especially. We were all robbed, we may never know how the real Jon finishes his journey either. Maybe that is just as much a good thing as it is bad.
I’m amazed that I watched this entire thing. It is quite upsetting to see how the characters ended
Well it’s 3am and I just finished watching this straight through. Phew I need to get my shit together. As for the video, this is about as thorough a takedown as can be made on the subject of Jon. Thanks for putting what millions of people were feeling into a clearly articulated video. GoT s8 is easily the biggest travesty in film and television history.
You'll never convince me ASOIAF is not Jon's story. Yet the show did our boy bad. Made him totally unneeded in the defeat of the biggest fight. What was the point? Arya killed the Night King. Dany took Kings Landing. Jon just went back where he started. Jon should of been King. Don't argue with me.
“The next time we see each other, we’ll talk about your mother “
It occurs to me he suspected he’d never see Jon again, one way or another
also I see no1 talking about Euron as as villain, he is one terrifying villain in the books and only line of him in the show that I can remmember "finger in bum" and "I am man who killed jaimy lannister"
I’m 39 mins in and this is acutely painful, the sheer calibre of character development is beautiful ❤ how it ends is like watching a unicorn being killed, slowly 😢
The horseman who get LANCED while Jon is stabbing the downed Bolton always makes me chuckle. The got the weight and impact PERFECT
The symbolism of the direwolves determining the fate of the Stark kids is the oldest ASOIAF theory and I'm more convinced now than ever that Sansa and Jon's arcs will have the exact same end points as the show. How we get from point A to point B is the real question. GRRM from the very beginning has glowingly talked about how in LOTR Frodo plays his hero's role and is broken by that experience and how he would want the end of ASOIAF to be a poignant, bittersweet one. Jon is the most obvious choice for the character who will play their part in saving the world and be broken by it. I'm not talking about Azor Ahoi. That can be Stannis, Victarion, whoever. But Jon is the most likely candidate for the fallen angel arc. He's the one who will be forced to leave Westeros at the end of it all without any personal glory. The exiled hero is a staple of Greco-Roman tragedies. As for Sansa, she is the most suitable candidate to end the series the ruler of the north as the LADY of Winterfell (not Bran). It's the most fitting end for the Stark who was the "least" Stark, the one who wanted to leave the most and the one who now feels most strongly about returning. At the Vale she's one step closer to home and all directions point to her character finding her ultimate resolution at Winterfell. If Bran's only role was to end the Long Night then his direwolf's name would've been Dawn or Morning. Summer is indication that he will be the King of Summer and rule over a calm Westeros after the storm.
Could you please do the same long style video for Tyrion Lannister too please? =) I bet a lot of people would want to see that, me included.
Just finished watching this whole thing. Very comprehensive and thorough. Thank you for spending the hours to make this. Loved it 🙏🙏
Months and months to barely scratch the surface of how bad they screwed his character. Thank you very much
@@jedibrooks7235 I had watched every single episode up until the night siege on winterfell when it aired. My immersion was already shattered when dany teleported past the wall to save all of them in the previous season. I knew the show was tanking. But as I sat there watching with my gf, the worst episode of a tv series I’ve ever seen, I never gave GOT another minute of my time. I didn’t watch any more episodes past that seeing the entire army of the dead GONE IN ONE EPISODE. How an entire crew of thousands of people put together an episode like that is beyond me.
@@jedibrooks7235 It was actually painful to watch your video because I had to go back to all of these amazing characters moments not just for John but for others and then to know once again it would be pointless for me to go and rewatch with the new gf who has never seen it 😭😭😭😢
The ending was criminal. Thanks for the work on the video. I would love to see a video discussing what jon should have done and maybe how the ending should have gone for the arcs to have been satisfied
I stumbled across this video and watched it all in a single sitting, absolutely incredible! More like this please!
Let's not forget that Bran's "Why do you think I came all this way" confirms him to be a psychopath who knew exactly what would happen and did nothing stop any of it. That alone should've told Tyrion "Crap, I just helped elect a tyrant".
Frankly, I prefer the leaked version over the garbage we got. Sure we would've lost a lot more characters, but it still would've been better than this. From what I remember of the leaked version:
Long Night episode was smarter. The Night King is coming, everyone knows this. Instead of a Crypt option, the people who couldn't fight (Sam, Gilly, Melissandra, Tyrion, Dani's female advisor, and all the others) would be sent through an underground tunnel which would exit towards Eastwatch, though a bit further south. The battle plan has EVERYONE in Winterfel Castle (behind the gates & walls). The Dead attack, everyone struggles to keep them at bay, but like in the episode we got, the dead swarm in.
Casualties of the Long Night: The Red Fighter guy (forgot his name), The Hound, Jaime Lannister, Grey Worm, and I think Brienne.
Arya gets badly wounded to where she has lost an eye and can't walk for a while. Everyone else survives the battle, but barely.
After they have killed the last Wight Walker general and last undead soldier, thats when they realize that the Night King never showed up. They ask Bran where he is, Bran goes into his vision state, and we see what Bran sees: a huge blizzard fast approaching King's Landing. The Night King on his undead dragon smiling at his approach. Cersei & everyone else at King's Landing is enveloped darkness. Scene cuts to black and all we hear at the end is the screaming of a million people dying.
Later episodes would involve them trying to figure out how they could stop the Night King now. He'll be coming at them from the South, and with his army bolstered by over a million new soldiers, they'll be attack the other territories along the way. And Bran comes up with a way he might be able to stop him.
There is a place called The Isle of Faces (its in the books btw), and if Bran connects with the tree there, he believes he'll be able to stop him before he is created, telling Jon & Daenerys about how he affected the past somehow.
Everyone else able to fight has to hold off the dead for as long as possible while Bran tries to find a way. Dani & Jon with their 2 remaining Dragons will stay near Bran in case the Night King shows up.
Fast forwarding ahead, cause I cant remember what happens in between:
Bran touches the largest tree in the center, and he travels through time. While this is happening, everyone is struggling once again to slow the advance of the dead, and Jon & Dani are engaged with the Night King.
Bran travels to Aerys Targaryen, tries to warn him of the dead showing him the future, but all Bran does is make him lose his mind to where all he said that Jaime remembers him constantly saying "BURN THEM ALL!"
Bran comes out and goes back in, hoping maybe he can go further. He possesses the body of a man before the Wall is built, he for some reason though finds it difficult to return to his own body, and unfortunately this man can't walk either. Later he learns he possessed the Builder of the Wall, the man known as "Brandon The Builder" and gets the wall built. After its done, he can finally leave.
Bran enters the past yet again, this time much further, back during the time when it was The First Men vs The Children. He possesses a First Man and seeks out the Children, hoping he can stop them from creating The Night King.
However he is captured by the Children, they tie him to a tree, and gag him. Then Bran realizes the awful reality; he possessed the man who would become The Night King. Remember when the man was screaming as the dagger went into his chest during that sequence where Bran & 3 Eyed watched? That was Bran screaming. Then back in the current time, Bran's eyes turn cold blue. We see the events of the Night King, Bran has been taken over by the monster the Children made.
But after the war ended, Bran regained control but his mind by then had already been lost. His war became that of Vengeance. Thats how he was able to see an touch Bran, thats how he was able to find the 3 Eyed Raven, thats why he took his time killing him, thats how he knew to bring Spears for the Dragons. They've been fighting Bran all along.
Eventually during the sky battle, Dani's dragon is killed and falls to the ground with Dani barely alive. Jon goes to her, gets off, and the other Dragon seeing Dani barely alive flies back after the Night King. He checks on her, but she won't wake up. He then rushes to Bran to find out if he found a way, and to his horror sees Bran's ice cold blue eyes. Examining his brother, he sees a smile form on his face and the Night King finishes off the other Dragon and comes towards Jon.
Jon realizes the truth, and just as the Night King is about to get there, Jon kills Bran, and the Night King dies, along with his entire army.
Eventually, (quite a bit later) Jon is has claimed the Throne, as Aegon Targaryen. He was told of his birthright, but he never told anyone, not even Dani. He watches as the Red Keep is being demolished, The Iron Throne melted down, and talks about he has removed the very thing everyone fought for, making every Territory its own kingdom. And he's last seen holding a baby, wishing his son had known his mother; Dani.
Arya does end sailing West for the same reason as in the show (spoiler, there is landmasses west of Westeros). Tyrion is ruler of the Reach, Blackwater gets Highgarden. While Jon is a Targaryen, the North still recognize him as King in The North. And all the other territories govern themselves. And with the Night King gone, the Wall is eventually demolished.
Don't remember the rest, but I think it mostly ends with Jon hoping for a better future. I think the leaked version was around 10 or 12 episodes, with the last being what happens after Jon takes the throne an such.
In my opinion one of the most missed opportunities in the show is some kind of conversation between Jon and Jamie, because in some way they have similar traits to one another, it would be so interesting to see those two talk about joining a fellowship that they thought was the best and looked up to
Jaime would never do that because he cannot leave cercei. He’s bound to her much like Gollum is bound to the one ring, even though he knows it will bring about his death
@Jordan samuel at the end of the day, Jaime was bound to love and Jon was bound to duty. They have more in common than people think.
@@Anten-Isy 100% mate. The line that sums up both up is “love is the death of duty” it rings true for both characters.
@@ItsSVO too bad they didn’t go with Jaime’s book personality. The second he heard Cersei blew up the sept with wildfire, he would’ve bounced. The show destroyed many characters, but they truly massacred my boy Jaime
@@dragondream-ing You’ve completely fallen for George’s red herring, he’s exploring Jaime’s possible redemption currently and this will lead up to him leaving Cercei until he returns to her just like he does in the show, because that’s who Jaime is, a conflicted character at odds with what’s right and what he wants. George has said many times the point of his books is to explore the human heart conflicted and at odds with itself, Jaime is the perfect written example of a tragic and flawed anti hero.
The show literally gave you George’s ending and did Jaime justice, you’ve just misunderstood the character completely just like people completely misunderstood Dany and are shocked when she does the very thing she’s been threatening to do since season 2.
Game of thrones ended so badly its actually physically painful. You'd think im joking with this statement but im not, you know that embarrassing memory from childhood or highschool you have and it makes you cringe and wince every time you suddenly think of it. Thats the exact same sensation i get when i think of game of thrones. Every time i remember it i cringe and wince or lash out in anger the very same way.
This is so perfectly put together and dead on. You did an amazing job expressing the utter and complete destruction of Jon's character.
HBO could very easily hire some more competent writers, hire back the whole cast and just pretend season 7 and 8 never happened. Everyone would be all for it.
yes!
Lmao 😂😂
i know it's almost 3 years since you made this but this essay still slaps. Great job dude
This is probably the greatest video I have ever seen. I am a huge fan. I’ve watched the seasons countless times now . I’m on my 2nd read through on the books. And I truly hope winds of winter will make up for the final season. All I can do is hope
We're not even going to get Winds of Winter. GRRM has shit the bed. He's too busy producing spin-off shows. The story isn't even finished and he's producing spin-offs. It seems like he's unsure how to end it properly or he's just content with the fame these shows have brought him.
Can I just say I'm impressed that anyone can take three hours to express how much they hate something. I don't think I could talk about how much I hate terrorism, communism, or the metric system for three hours.
Metric system makes sense tho I feel like
America just has their own way of doing things
@@jameswarner261no it doesn’t. Metric system is based on perfect measurements that don’t exist in the real world, it only “makes sense” to dullards who look at face value alone and say “oh, it has easily divisible units so it must be good”
Ive actually forgotten a lot of season 8 just because of the trauma of the let down. A tragic loss of story telling.
Half way through this video and I wanted to let you know, this is amazing. Exactly what I needed right now.
Very well done.
I'm still grateful for Jon's mere existence as a character. Regardless of how the last season went, Jon has influenced me through the most trying times in my life and I'm a better man for it. This video has hit the nail on the head.
"The episode ends with the Red Woman walking out onto the battlefield and just dying for no fu**in reason." 🤣
You know, they could save jon's story if they go the admiral Yi route,
admiral yi for context climbed the ranks of the military multiple times and because of corruption, got shoved to some backwater place or demoted multiple times. Ended up single handily saving korea from a japanese invasion
It's not clear from me whether or not he was Korean or Japanese in your story
@freddiesimmons1394 Korean, he's a national hero there. Held back a huge Japanese navy/army with a tiny force and never lost in his campaign that got him killed at the end.
I am in so much agreement with you I watched this nearly 3hr complaint start to finish. This video was much better than season 8 itself, so sad!
I actually like the long form of the video. It really drives home how it strong it starts and how weak it ends.
the battle of the bastards will always be the turning point for me. It was then they essentially stamped jon the hero and then proceeded to dismantle his character while trying to put him center stage in every scene as though he were still important to the plot
Jon is the hero, just not the typical fantasy trope.
Between myself and my friends, we've come up with about six different ways Game of Thrones should have ended. Even though none of us are professional writers, I'd pick any one of my friends' scenarios over what actually wound up on the screen.
If I hadn't already been sold on Jon as a character by then, him throwing a right hook while trying to fight a Wight unarmed at Hardhome would have done it for sure. Legend.
Phenomenal analysis, legit got my blood pumping with frustration and I've never even seen an episode. Mission accomplished!
That was my goal. For someone who hasnt seen it to experience a piece of thr heart break n horror we went through. This show could have been something special
@@jedibrooks7235 Thx for replying, I absolutely love your content! I know that D&D really let y’all down, but I do think GRRM should get more criticism. My understanding is that the ending we got is what HE wanted; the execution just sucked so much! Frankly, the ending could’ve worked, but only if it had been paced appropriately.
When D&D started the show they were confident GRRM would finish the books soon and here we are 13 yrs later and the books will never be finished. GRRM has become just as pretentious as D&D.
I have never seen this show, nor read the books. My knowledge of its story is almost nothing.
But holy HECK you did a fantastic job presenting this story so the least common denominator (me) could understand how bad this was. Fantastic job.
The final season made me forget how good this show actually was. Thank u for this
"you'll have to kill me to" is a cool line. If you're armed.
That Jon and Ygritte argument at 12:22 always cracks me up lol
Hardhome is possibly GoT greatest episode. They did zombies better in 15 minutes than Walking Dead did in all of its seasons.
I just wish they didn't hit Jon with the silly end of the sword in that one fight lol
Sean Bean is a truly talented actor. You could see the pain behind the line "Then, we'll talk about your mother"
Wow man….thank you for this project you put together. Now….if you could make one explaining what was going on with Dan and Dave Behind the scenes, that would be very informative.
i love how at 2 hours 21 min everyone at that bar is just... wtf am i watching in comparison to the other scenes
I forgot how likeable Geor Mormont was. And that they were truly seeing the White Walkers as a "threat" lol
That hardhome scene still gives me chills to this day.
Early life wikipedia section checks out. Every. Single. Time.
For who? DND? yeah, that was obvious anyway lol
I just assume at this point, 85% of the time I'm right
It’s pretty wild that the wilding woman who is Jon’s squeeze in the show is his wife now in real life.
Thank you for this video, i need it. It's been 3 years and I still don't accept it...
It’s crazy how much of an impact this show had. Here we are years later reliving the good times
When watching the scenes before s8, they are just epic and you cant stop watching. Then the shitshow arrives.
from Jon Snow to Jack Frost
I can except Dany going crazy like her father and John Snow turning into Jake but what a freaking let down with the Night king. He should’ve had an extensive fight sequence with John at the very least
I read the books well before the HBO show. Once the show started, I felt like a world I imagined in my mind and loved came to life. Starting around season 5 I started to notice slight issues, yet was fully committed and eventually got my husband into it. When Arya killed the night king, my anger at the show and myself for continuing to watch was growing… Yet, when Rhagar was killed by that dipshit version of Euron Greyjoy, I turned it off. My husband was like what’s wrong, don’t you want to know how it ends?!?. I simply said nope, fuck this show and fuck Dan and Dave for destroying a world I loved.
Rhaegal was the dragon's name
I mean I see how euron coulda been one of the ones to kill one of dany's dragon. However I doubt it'd be the 2nd one to die. More likely the 1st if not only one, which would later be resurrected by the undead, potentially a nights king in the books (who I theorize would be robb stark resurrected by the others, after lady stoneheart pieces his body back together and leaves him in the crypt in winterfell). Except in the books Euron would use the dragon horn to either bring the dragon down or bind it to himself, forcing dany to use drogon to kill one of her own dragons. Season 7 was kinda shit, but had its moments. Season 8 was.. ...to call it a clusterfuck would be an insult to a clusterfuck. It's like they intentionally made it horrendous and ruin literally years of plot points. Also, side note: if jon and dany do get together in the books like everyone is hoping and praying to george to do, neither would give a single fuck about the incest bit. It was just part of the culture at the time. Dany's parents were brother and sister I believe. Before she was married off to Drogo, she had the notion of marrying her brother viserys. Also it wouldnt necessarily cause a rift between them. If anything it be more of a "well a queen needs a king. Doesn't matter to me which of us sits the throne, as long as we do this ...together". Dany would still be queen, jon would still be king just with less power disparity between the king/queen dynamic. I even foresee dany getting pregnant after one of the dragons die, and her giving birth to a healthy baby. Then once they've destroyed the dissidants in kings landing, and the army of the dead finally arrives near kings landing; jon having to mercy kill dany after her dragon is shot down and crushing her almost completely to death with only minutes to spare as jon has to plunge his blade into her heart to end her suffering and pulling it out as lightbringer. Then raising some of his own dead that the white walkers havent reclaimed, turning the tide as fire wights and ice wights duke it out and jon and a (hopefully white walker rob) nights king duke it out, both mutually killing eachother in the process. The baby gets raised by sansa as queen regent until the baby is of age. Thus ending and tying up The Song of Ice and Fire. But I also foresee future books where the baby grows up, becomes king/queen but tensions rise in the east as the slavers and the golden company lead by Aegon/"young griff" come-a-knockin' as dany stole the lands from the slavers and this child stole the throne from griff, who is supposedly Aegon, first born son of Rhaegar and rightful heir. However this child has dragon and dragon eggs and with brans blood-raveny-ness has began hatching some of them but griff has a much, much larger army. But that last bit is only if george lives long enough to tell it
You just reminded me just how bloody good this show was up to a point. Unbelievable action and story.
The Night King always should’ve been Jon’s fight. I knew the series was over once they made that change
Why? Because Jon saw him a couple times from thousands of feet away? Maybe it should have been Bran, with a secret obsidian shiv. That would have more thematic impact considering his disability, and Bran had more connection with the Night King anyway. Or maybe they were in a desperate situation, using flawed tactics against an enemy they didn't understand, and they were lucky anyone made it? You have to leave room for realism, the Night King always had them beat. Go like Tolkien, call it a eucatastrophe. Putting NK on Jon's blade because "they're both leaders" or whatever would just be another kind of (more cliche) contrivance.
Like, if they never resurrect Jon would the story be worse when someone else takes the night king out? Can it not be satisfying for someone to take on his mantle?
Nobody "should" have it. But yes, it should feel earned by someone. The Arya turn sucks because it doesn't feel remotely earned.
@@freddiesimmons1394 I suppose. Appreciate the actual thought, by the way. I think it comes down to me being sold on the fluid and unfamiliar style of "water dancing." Take an approach to combat that is unfamiliar to any westerosi knight, and I can suspend my disbelief for Arya v. Brienne. Particularly an art so focused on the mis/direction of momentum as braavosi swordplay seems to be. It's reminiscent of aikido, which any decently trained practitioner can use to get an edge on a larger opponent.
She may have spent a short time training, but we see her aptitude when she's only 9 in winterfell. If it's not entirely earned, I buy that it's at least foreshadowed well. She learns a martial art that is fundamentally about turning her enemies strength to her advantage, seems the only thing to do against NK. They definitely should have shown her progress from the keep to the godswood though, felt very cheap for her to just appear there.
They don’t specifically mention Jon being a Tagaryen until season 6 or 7. The first reveal around 1:17:35 that you mentioned, was just revealing that Jon wasn’t actually Ned Stark’s bastard, but instead Lyanna’s baby.
I did not read the loot train battle as Dany ignoring Jons advice, quite the opposite.
Jon adviced her against going to Kings Landing and burning it.
Not fighting soldiers on the battlefield.
I also cant make sense of why the blood relation between Jon and Dany is an issue.
It has been the tradition for the targaryens throught the times. If any conflict should lie in it, it should be Dany encouraging their marriage, but Jon refusing. It would be foreing to him, but not to her
The relation wouldn’t have been a problem if D&D had any sense. Book Jon wouldn’t even bat an eye. Uncle-niece and aunt-nephew pairings aren’t considered incest in Westeros, and for Targaryens they’re super tame. Even the Starks have at least 2 uncle-niece marriages in their relatively recent family tree. So many things about the later seasons of the show make me cringe lol
I would still be rewatching this show if they had kept the integrity of the first 3 seasons. I would have bought DVDs, all the merchandise etc. I would have been loyal if only they had.
The showrunners decided they would rather appeal to the larger audience that treated GoT as a soccer world cup final instead of a rich character-driven narrative. The show degraded slowly after season 4, from character-building, good writing, meaningful dialogue and politics to big spectacle, cheesy cliches, abrupt twists and a fucking zombie polar bear. The entire last three seasons - with the exception of a few moments sprinkled here and there - were a discrace compared to the first ones.
Exactly. They fell in love with the spectacle and twitter reactions. Forgot what got them there. Forever bitter about those lazt seasoms but nothing compares to s8!!!!
Just watching the Hardhome scenes again sent chills down my fucking spine, Miguel Sapochnik really knew how to direct an episode and his first outing was phenomenal
I was and always will be a loyal Bannermen of the one True King Stannis of the house Baratheon but John was a good man and would have been a good king. The destruction of his character is absolutely tragic and GoT is dead to me
Seeing the video of the groups of people watching the episodes in the Bar is bringing back memories of how incredible the community around this show was. It was the last real appointment TV. Such a cultural phenomenon... when will we get a season 8 remake.
Thats why i added them. Takes you back to when this with more than just a show.
@@jedibrooks7235
Seeing everyone watching the final episode was just depressing- they all look so demoralized
Then we get a great visual scene. "Drogan rises out of the ashes from kings landing as a mythical bouncer ready to check johns ID" 🤣 That was just too funny. It's very sad tho how this wonderful series completely got ruined bc Dan n Dave had star wars anticipation n decided to kill every character on this show for cheap n lazy writing!!
I watched this whole thing and its now 2 am. I enjoyed re-living the best parts of the show and agree with everything else. Nice video
I maintain that if they wanted to go down that same route with Jon watching Greyworm start to kill unarmed surrendered soldiers, Jon should have killed Greyworm there.
I hated finding out John is a Targaryen and seeing how Drogon looked at him so familiarly… then the writers fucked up a good thing. We could’ve had 13 seasons 😭
😭😭😭
At least 10
Jon being a Targaryen is important for exactly the reasons you saw, it’s so he can give up the throne and see the right of succession based on a bloodline be severed for good. The reason he’s able to do this whereas other Targs aren’t is because he was brought up a stark and not a Targaryen, that’s the whole point and the subversion of the secret prince trope George is going for. He’s ice and fire, the balance.
@@ItsSVO I agree. I just meant it was sad because Drogon knew before him and because of this, how we found out was so forced and rushed.
I just worded it weirdly compared to how I thought in my mind. Lol.
@@sushi_xoxo how was finding out about his true identity forced and rushed? Definitely disagree on this.
The creepiest thing was seeing GoT vanish from popular culture in weeks. It's hard to express how popular the show was before the finale, and how little people cared a month after. The entire zeitgeist around the show changed in 1 month.
Just like mass effect, the ending ruined the whole experience.
@@Armadan7 Yep yep. The ending is so bad that it even makes it hard to replay ME2. That game is fantastic, but it is hard to care when everything is leading to Ghost Child, and the writers went out of their way to debunk the indocrination theory -- the only theory that could salvage the last game -- in interviews after the fact.
I understand that they were told Bran was to be king in the book, but, I feel like the show could’ve gotten away with an alternate ending, since at that point it was sort of it’s own thing. Jon should’ve beaten the night king, and opposed Dany when she started to show cracks in her sanity (which needed more time to develop. Maybe even another season tbh) and he should’ve been king.
Dany has literally been threatening to take what’s hers with fire and blood and promising to burn cities to the ground for like 6 or so seasons and people still like “he descent needed more time” or maybe, you should’ve been actually paying attention to her immoral acts and self righteous justice instead of who she was doing it to. George is a clever writer.
@@ItsSVO threats aren't really the same as actions.
@@fightingmedialounge519 Threats don’t tend to become actions if you have advisors or friends to reason with you. We see what happens once Dany no longer had the voices of reason, she does what she’s threatened to do because that’s who she is and has been for a long time.
@@ItsSVO except she still had advisers and people who cared about her, so that excuse doesn't really fly. Also her burning parts of city except for the place that would be more beneficial for her to attack in her really what she threatened to do.
@@fightingmedialounge519 the advisors she actually listened to were gone, that’s the point.
The killing of Jon Snow was the point the show died to me, and I didn't return until the final season (and what a waste that turned out to be), because it was at that point the writers decided the show no longer had any consequences to any actions the characters took. They killed Jon Snow for shock value, and resurrected him without any cost. Allow me to explain. As a writer, you can kill a major character if doing so drives the plot and services the wider story, point in case of this for GoT was the killing of the popular Rob Stark, who up until the Red Wedding, was the hero of the show, but in killing him they reset the board, one again showing how the Lannisters new how the game was played, and the Starks did not, and in doing so they allowed Jon Snow to rise as the new hero. How was the plot moved forward by Jon's death, who rose to replace him? What was gained by it? Most important, what was the cost?
Let's take the death of Spock in Star Trek as the perfect example of how to write a major character death. In Star Trek 2 Spock nobly sacrifices himself to save the ship and the crew. It's a great scene that pays off in the very next movie. In that we see the Enterprise limp home, Kirk is a broken man, Bones is put in the funny farm because they think he's gone insane when he's actually carrying around Spock's soul. The line that nails it, the line that justifies Spock's resurrection comes at the end of the movie. He wasn't just resurrected by the Genesis effect, Kirk is asked an important question. He's asked why? Sarek, Spock's father, asks him why he did it when it cost him his career, his ship, and the life of his son to rescue his friend, and Kirk replies, "because if I hadn't, the cost would have been my soul". Kirk sacrificed everything to remain true to the man he was.
In contrast, GoT just kills Jon Snow, and at the beginning of the very next season he returns to life, the traitors are rounded up and hanged, and there is no cost, no consequence to anything they did. Everyone's like "well I guess he's in charge again". This is the anthesis of how to write. If there was no cost to be paid they could have easily had the betrayal exposed before the murder, or Jon's return could have split the Watch right down the middle causing a civil war within the ranks, any number of options they could have gone for and they didn't do anything. From that point on it said that the show had no consequences to any decision it made, and that's why we see season 8. Daenerys going mad, Jon becoming a shell, none of it mattered because the writers had already established there was no consequences for them being so, and without consequences there could be no pay off. GoT died at the end of Season 5, it was already a skin suit by the time Season 8 came around.
Exelent video! I would however like to point out that in the books, Jon dies because he wants to take the Nights Watch south to retake Winterfell, not because he let the wildlings behind the wall. So his death is actually well justified. He is also killed by his servants and its basically their job to kill the lord commander if he would dare to take NW against anything else than dangers in the north.