Copper Plating Without A Battery
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ก.ย. 2014
- This is a copper plating gel that is basically copper nano particles in jelly. The odd thing about it is it creates a copper coat that adheres very well and if you connect a copper brush to the plating surface it will continue to plate without a battery - it is auto catalytic for the deposition of copper! - that is so cool
- วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
Laura Kampf sent me here!
Same.
Just wondering. Could you put a resistor in the circuit to slow the copper deposition down? Love watching these vids!
I'd love to see a more detailed revisit of this solution and see where it can go.
Yesterday I was thinking on how to emboss/print letters on to control panels in a new fashionable way.
Now I know ! Thank you.
lol cool
Just a thought, putting a resistor in series would reduce the current, slowing down the process and hopefully produce a more even thicker plating result. I guess you'd need to measure the current (ideally a hall effect sensor, so that the meter resistance doesn't affect the reading), then calculate the resistor value.
I remember from decades ago, after school 6th form chemistry club, simply by plating slower at lower current for longer, would produce much more robust and cleaner plating results.
In your copper electroplating TH-cams you recommend using a very low current to ensure good adhesion of the copper to the substrate. Here you recommend using the EDTA as a way to do the same. What excellent knowledge you share.
I love your videos! Making copper nanoparticles is on my weekend project list. Can I ask if this can be done with aluminium nanoparticles? Aluminium helps rust protect mild steel and even titanium (titanium is not so good at high temps, slowly oxidises away). There are hundreds of videos on electroplating, some with aluminium, but none on 'electropating on to steel WITH aluminium'. Closest I've seen is 400degC 1.5Mpa 'cold' jet of air hypersonically blasting aluminium at a surface. Don't think I'm doing that anytime soon.
I wonder if just having a resistor in series with the wire would slow down the reaction ?
Where I can get this solution of gel?
Robert, is it possible to bond the copper wire to the steel using the same process?
Is there a way to use this technique to coat a thin mylar film. I was wondering if this could be an alternative to physical vapor deposition.
Hi, wondering if you can use this process first and then properly electroplated to thicken the layer of copper?
Robert, can you "coper plate" lead (such as soldering joints)? If so, how?
I wonder how effective this would be for building up to create etchings *as opposed to removal via acid etching into a solid component* since with the two used (etching down first, then plating onto afterwards to build up) it should allow for much thicker forms either for decoration or for thick heavy duty traces that are able to be thicker than they are wide to act a bit as a heat sink from under a component instead of just on top of it.
Thomas Anderson that's an interesting idea mate
All the information , the specifics, language, materials and human element surpasses the inexperienced or "plagerizers," by far, Less words, please. Again best human element, materials seen, numbers and information. Top stuff. Thank you.
The paint scraper with the brown coating, can it still be polished up or is this beyond saving?
Extremely interesting! thanks
cheers mate
@Robert Murray-Smith
How do you make your solution I would love to give this ago.
I've asked that same person to 6 or 7 people on TH-cam and nobody will give me an answer I wanna know how to make it so have you ever figured it out please let me know
Would this work on stainless steel?
How is the copper jelly made ? I have a few ideas on what I can use that for.
i have done a load of vids on how to make copper nanoparticles - so first make some of those. The jelly is up to you - there is a ton of options from sodium algenate, gum arabic to sodium silicate and how to make these up as gels is all over the net, then combine the two
thats really amazing. would love to see a copper brick of it. and it shows u can make electrodes out of copper sulphate not copper. (edit: woops mabye not)
Wot is this magic stuff called and where do i get it
I do have a question, why you newer ad any epoxy? it is good glue and jelly.
not in this case i want the gel to come off
Hi Robert : Can this copper plating method also works for non-metal , e.g. , plating copper layer on glass or plastics ? Looking forward to your reply and thanks a lot !
a replacement reat+Jeff Yung I don't think so mate - it's basically a replacement reaction - but i will give it a go for you
+Robert Murray-Smith I think if adding a temperature curing (maybe 120C ~180C) , your copper gel can form a layer of copper on dielectric or ceramic , just like activator for PCB through-via metallization .
+Jeff Yung that would make it like bath deposition and i would probably have to sensitise first with palladium and stannous chloride
How could I get my hands on some of that copper plating gel? I I could reaaally use some!! Also I would imagine it doesn't adhere well to stainless or aluminum correct?
Morgan Parkman You are quite right mate and i am afraid you will just have to make some - but it is only copper nanoparticles in gel and i give instructions on how to make these in different vids
Robert Murray-Smith did you not show a video of this stuff working on stainless steel? though you applied it with steel wool instead of just some cloth to rub it on? if I am correct and it is not another formula other than the one here, I guess a link to your other videos is in order LOL (you really should consider selling DVDs even if they were just downloadable ones through something like amazon or something, that strings everything together nicely for those needing help (might also be a good school study compilation? :)
Thomas Anderson we are working on that idea right now mate with the 3 men in a shed series - the plan is that a lot of the videos will be redone under the 3 men title and a lot of the ideas of the channel will be pulled together there - as we do this we will be removing the older videos
This is very interesting, thank you. I am working with very pitted and sometimes rusted thru 18 gauge mild steel...yep its a 60's era Chevrolet. Brush plating seems like it may have merit for repair instead of cutting out and replacing. My question is; if I use the nano copper plating to build up pitted areas then sand smooth for layering, could it fill the deepest portion of the pits first?
I have prepared a 1 foot piece piece of metal from a rusty floor by sand blasting and wire brushing. Some pits have pin holes thru the metal up to 3mm. I have watched videos for chrome plating by immersion in various stages, the first being copper. They
had to solder many pits which is expensive, and time consuming...so I have considered using a conductive paint product like the copper paint used on boat hulls, sanding smooth then trying to plate over for a sandwich of material then maybe zink to cover that. Also will the metals react with each other after plating? The goal is to stop the steel from oxidizing.
+hunter wayman very interesting mate - have you made any vids?
+Robert Murray-Smith I had not considered vids, but see the advantage. Its very early on in the experiment so nothing lost really. I will record my next few steps. First I want to make sure all the rust is out by reversing the polarity for rust removal by brush method. After, I have considered using a magnet attached to the bottom side with
iron filings, in the rusted thru holes and heavier pitting, to assist in the fill of the gap areas. It may require a barrier of tin foil between the magnet and the steel, which may also assist in conducting current thru the fill areas.
+hunter wayman People often ask me what i think about something mate - and quite often it's next to impossible to say anything of value just because i can't see what they did. It'd be cool to see anyway and lots of other people can benefit from aspects of your work you're willing to share
+Robert Murray-Smith Yes, with any luck I will be able to record the process and show a cross section of the finished metal restored to the original 18 gauge thickness. Also after reviewing your nano copper gel process
I am curious if the acid is neutralized before using it as an ink?
+hunter wayman no - it's an acidic gel mate - hence gloves - lol
Gold plating still a bits slow to plate eny ideas
Hi Robert,
Very interesting
My background is physics so I struggle at times with the chemistry but here goes...
Is the gel pH neutral - could copper salts be forming on the fly?
Have you measured the electropotential?
I am interested to know what is causing the current, some thoughts expressed mainly as rhetorical questions follow.
I know of salt water batteries for instance that oxidise aluminium to create current but the crux of this seems to be that once you have built a layer of copper you can carry on building upon it so presumably at some stage
1. There is no (very little) gel left in contact with the steel
or alternatively
2. Any gel left in contact with the steel is sandwiched between copper and steel, suggesting that something will simply get depleted or completely oxidised and then the reaction in the now physically isolated boundary layer will die off as the boundary layer is cut off from the outside world by the copper deposits. As far as I understand it galvanic (corrosive) action between dissimilar metals requires an intermediate electrolyte and at the very least something gets used up. How long can a physically isolated boundary layer provide current? Also its hard to see how such good adhesion could be obtained if the boundary layer between iron and copper was being compromised by gel and/or some galvanic activity - surely anything capable of creating current between two bonded dissimilar metals tends to have the effect of "unbonding" them by means of byproducts and chemical conversion - surely you cannot get current out of such a boundary layer and expect it to remain unchanged?
If the above paragraph seems to cast doubt over the steel playing some kind of sacrificial/active/galvanic role (at least past initiation) then once started could we
magically substitute the steel for any conducting substrate (even non-metallic) and expect the reaction to continue? I suppose the acid test is to try the same with a copper substrate but then its going to be difficult to judge deposits, although a non-zero current reading would rule out galvanic action (compared perhaps with the steel-copper version) and suggest an alternative driver.
Once this thing gets going then the active interfaces are now just copper-gel and gel-copper with the only significant difference being the level of particle division?
If this is not fuelled ( but perhaps only initiated) by galvanic action then what is the energy source required to create a current?
Perhaps the nano-particles have a static charge, for some reason they simply tend to have a different gross potential than grounded lumps of solid copper, perhaps they mutually repel until they can dump charge and coalesce onto a substrate?
Failing that then another energy difference between the great slab of copper deposit ( seen on the nanoscale) and nanoparticles is the level of subdivision, presumably the energy cost of repeated subdivision of a solid approaches the latent heat of vaporisation in the extreme. Does the level of subdivision represented by these nanoparticles add up to a significant amount of energy for this context and could it express itself as electrical current, it is reasonable to suggest that nanoparticles coalescing into a bulk solid need to give up some energy but would it appear as electricity rather than heat?
Go easy on me I am going out on a thin limb in the thought experiment here, in short some simplified black and white assumptions about the boundary layer being isolated and a non-sustaining seem to lead to colourful explanations for an energy source to drive current indefinitely - perhaps you did not wait long enough to see it come to a stop or maybe whatever is going on in that boundary layer is just not as black and white as I paint it?
+jonnie Basically it is initially a displacement reaction and after follows the same dynamics as an electroless plating bath
Thanks Robert
I have watched your early videos on nano-copper creation. As I understand it you wash the copper and then protect under ascorbic acid so that there is no copper sulphate left just water, copper nanoparticles and fresh ascorbic acid?
Do you believe that copper ions playing a role or that copper atoms/nano-particles are playing a role here?
On one hand I am wondering whether there is some amazing nano-thing going on where sufficiently fine copper metal particles will exchange with iron atoms or otherwise coat steel ( after all mechanical plating says mere proximity and energy can achieve this) - blacksmiths regularly used to brass steel with a bit of heat and vigorous rubbing with a brass brush.
Or.....
Whether a salt or complex of copper ions is doing a very similar type of exchange with iron as we see with immersion deposits of copper sulphate and the more adherent coatings are a side effect of the nanoparticles but not a direct cause. I think I understand the reason for immersion deposits for both ions and complexed ions ( electrochemical series etc) and why complexed ions are usually less prone to immersion deposits.
I am struggling here - is it something we have seen before but in a slightly different guise or is there something fundamentally different and previously unseen because of the presence of nano-particles? If you have an insight that breaks it down by chemical component I would be very interested - ie what role does do the copper nano-particles play, what role do any copper ions present play in the plating mechanism - say just the case where you rub it on.
I am currently trying out your nano-gel as a way of obtaining a "flash plate" on steel prior to acid copper plating. I am applying by cloth at the moment not the method shown in "plating without a battery". The precursor you introduce is a powder which is added to water so I guess I am wondering should we expect ions or just nano-particles?
My experience so far with citric and oxalic brush and bath methods suggests that its necessary to build up a thick deposit with acid copper before the full picture of adhesion and coverage is seen.
I am performing simple mechanical adhesion tests also with the aid of a digital microscope which offers a certain amount of of additional information when the plate does fail ( peal or small flakes? any copper particles remaining, evidence for copper-steel failure vs copper-copper failiure etc.
Not a chemist - my background is physics but for various reasons I am part of a small number of people keen to exploit a reliable method of flash coating copper on steel that does not involve nasties or complex bath chemistries.
Will share my results if of interest.
Thanks for putting it all out there,
Sorry its so long winded - trying to paint a picture based on lots of practical experimentation and reading but unsupported by a good chemistry foundation.
+jonnie It is without a doubt the nanoscale is having an effect. I would guess that at that scale the surface roughness promotes adhesion and the chemistry of the gel promotes autocatalytic copper deposition with the already applied copper nanoparticles acting as nucleation sites. The ascorbic acid acts as a reducing and capping agent and I imagine the bulk of free copper ions are in the +1 oxidation state and are reduced to zero valency by the 'rubbing' - which is essentially little more than intimate mixing - hope this helps and good luck with the experiments
@@BuyMyDreamHotel l
Very nice ✌🏻
How come I can't find anybody to tell me how to make this solution
to Robert :
There is a paper : eprints.lib.hokudai.ac.jp/dspace/bitstream/2115/59816/1/Yonezawa-RSCA(5-75).pdf
They seem to inspired by your video . They form highly conductive copper layer from copper gel
+Jeff Yung interesting paper - cheers mate
I'll bet your neighbours think you spend all day watching comedy films.
Why?
You surely must laugh out loud when you discover things like this, and you seem to discover a whole lot of things!
Amazing :-D
Could you plate something plated with steel?
Could you make a similar gel for plating other materials with steel?
Do you see where I'm going with this? ;-)
they do think i am a little nuts yes - lol - i do see where you are going - but to be honest mate this is a bit of an aside i just thought it was interesting
Very interesting. Hopefully someone who has a clue what they're doing (not me) will pick up the baton and run with it.
I suppose what I was wondering is if you could say - graphite coat some plastic, then steel coat the graphite, then copper coat then steel to end up with a thing that might be useful somehow.
Any news on the soap powders yet? :-)
Fred Gandt
it would be easier to coat the copper straight onto the graphite mate - no news on the soap no - i am workingon this flexo ink right now
Ah, I was under the impression that this compound only deposited onto steel.
Also I meant "graphene" but am a doofus :-/
No worries (soap). Just let me know when you get around to it please.
BTW, visiting won't be 'till next year. Maybe in the spring.
Fred Gandt
it does but coating steel onto graphite first is really hard to do lol. - anytime you want to visit mate
Wow😊
Anti iron chemical name plg sir
Of course, I speak in the name of the non- stupid (long story ...), movement, and all the utterences of The Higher Power "Movement...etc... Glory to all like you as well as The Higher Power
Just wondering. Could you put a resistor in the circuit to slow the copper deposition down? Love watching these vids!
i like that - i'll give it a go