I feel like the Capaldi era has been getting looked back even more fondly as the years go by. And this makes me happy tbh, his era is such an underrated gem. I was mixed about series 8 when it first came out (I liked 12 but I felt that sometimes he was too grouchy and the severe change in tone was kind of depressing at the time) but I rewatched it not too long ago and DAMN it was way better than I remembered. On a rewatch you notice the complexities and such and I came to appreciate peter's portrayal of an angrier doctor (back then I didn't truly fall in love with 12 until The Zygon Inversion but rewatching series 8 made me fall in love in a whole new way). I loved seeing 12 and clara's complicated yet so real relationship and how it involved into a loving one. I also loved seeing a more evolved and friendlier (kind of) take on the Doctor and the Master's relationship. It really annoyed me how this evolution was ignored in the chibnall era.
You summarized my feelings pretty well. I know Capaldi got a bit of hate at the time for multiple reasons so a lot of people just kind of fell off, but his portrayal of The Doctor was one of my favorites by the end of his run and I constantly find myself looking back on his episodes.
How much of this is just the context of the Chibnall/Whitaker years? I think by the mid-tens people had gotten used to the consistent excellence of NuWho and then a marginal dip in quality was perceived as the show becoming unwatchably bad. Oh, how little we knew back then what truly bad Doctor Who looked like.
Erm i rememebr atj the time it was originally out people loved it especially missy was very well received. But when Bill be3came the doctors companion peop,le started hating on it, and then also started applying that retroäactiovely to season 8 and 9. But the original run was very well received especially because of missy, but also peters doctor was amazing
Clara and Capaldi’s relationship is my favorite Doctor companion relationship. Nobody bosses The Doctor around so much or as well as Clara does 12. Love the times she has to tell him to stop being dickish because that’s not him and explains what he IS like, helping him rise to the occasion.
Flatline is bloody amazing, and yes I would agree it's a great "first taste to get you hooked" episode for being an excellent standalone adventure which doesn't rely on any continuity; and it also isn't too "weird" like some of the other sacred cow episodes, it's pretty representative of what Doctor Who is like.
Great video! This is like therapy for Capaldi fans, Series 8 doesn't get the love it deserves so this was a really refreshing watch. Series 8 has some truly excellent episodes like Flatline, Mummy on the Orient Express, Time Heist, and Into the Dalek, in fact I should rewatch the entire series as its been too long
You are so right that Series 8 is very underrated. Criminally underrated, I think. That season is filled with so many great episodes, and it's a shame many people write it off. It is one of the most, if not THE most, character driven series in the show. Nice seeing appreciation for Danny and his importance in tying Clara to Earth.
Peter Capaldi ruined the season. They should have gotten John Hurt to do it. I'd kill to see John Hurt and Clara Oswald do Seasons 8 and 9 together. Watching Peter Capaldi was like watching Michael Jayston's Valeyard with the only difference being that the Valeyard was INTENTIONALLY the villain of the story. The first thing any internalised character arc needs is self-awareness. Peter Capaldi's portrayal of the Doctor had none of it. The most vital part of the "Am I a good man?" character arc was completely absent and by trying so hard to be something he's not, Peter Capaldi ruined the best writing the Doctor has been given since Christopher Ecclestone. His performance might have worked if he was the War Doctor, the one incarnation who could actually get away with becoming the Valeyard, but it was completely wrong for a Doctor who's so far removed from the Time War.
@@גוד-צ2ו No, I want Peter Capaldi to be the War Doctor because then he could get away with being a shitbag. Leave playing the real Doctor to John Hurt.
He's also the first doctor I've seen at least in series 8 who is ok with letting someone die if he thinks it's for the greater good,yes other doctor's in the past have done some questionable things as well but it didn't usually involve willingly sacrificing people to get a better understanding of what's happening
Series 8 and 9 are easily my favorite in all of DW. And it boils down to Capaldi and Clara (obviously). Not only is Capaldi a close second for favorite doctor, and a truly fantastic actor. I love how he brought a fresh and distinct flare to the role. But I mostly adored Clara, and her relationship to the doctor. I DESPISE, the stupid Doctor x Companion romances that happen. (I did not like Amy). But Clara felt like she was hanging out with her “Cool Space Dad” and what was such an absurdly enjoyable dynamic. I loved it so.
I absolutely loved the way the trailer for “Dark Water”/”Death in Heaven” teased Clara as some sleeper enemy with “Clara Oswald has never existed…” Unfortunately, they never followed through on this potential. I think it would’ve been a great story that 2 seasons of this companion had been entirely orchestrated by Missy, and not even as a way to conquer or kill the Doctor, but still in the same misguided attempt to show him affection.
it was an effective thing to use for the trailers, I'm glad the show didn't go in that direction but it was a fun hook for the build-up to the story. A similar example is the trailers for Doomsday, which all seemed to imply that the Daleks and Cybermen would team up (the 'Next Time' uses the line "Cybermen plus Daleks, together we could upgrade the universe!" and clever editing to make it seem like the Doctor would have to fight Daleks and Cybermen at once. A neat idea for a trailer, but one that I'm very glad they didn't go with
Really underrated series. I rewatched it and series 9 recently, and that part of my rewatch marathon has solidified the Capaldi era as my all time favourite period of new Doctor Who. I've always loved most of the individual episodes, but my rewatch got me to really appreciate the arc a lot more than initially.
I would love the era if Peter Capaldi hadn't ruined it. His Doctor suffered from a staggering lack of self-awareness, so I didn't believe that Peter Capaldi was sincere about wanting to be a good man. His introspective moments came across as a sociopath trying to figure out the best way to manipulate people around him for self-validation, not a genuinely good man contemplating his mistakes and trying to correct them. Even as late as Face The Raven, I expected the Doctor to throw Clara Oswald to the wolves and reveal that her death was part of an elaborate "greater good" scheme. Something about Peter Capaldi's face made me assume that he cries crocodile tears and it's not hard to convince me that somebody is actually crying. Until Heaven Sent and Hell Bent, where I finally believed that Peter Capaldi was sincere about his "duty of care", all of the chemistry in the relationship came from Clara's side. On paper, the relationship was very well balanced. In practice, Clara completely surpassed the Doctor. Clara Who is often used in a derogatory way but I think she actually saved Peter Capaldi's era. I'd kill to see her do Seasons 8 and 9 with John Hurt and have a relationship that balanced out as well as the scripts intended. Peter Capaldi was experimenting, ignoring or forgetting context from previous episodes (it was infuriating to watch him unironically say "You can't see me" to Clara after Name of the Doctor revealed that the Doctor ignored her for centuries or yell "You let me down!" without the slightest hint of awareness that he'd done the same thing several times), struggling to find a Doctor that worked over halfway through his second season, and making foolish suggestions like the sonic sunglasses and guitar. Because of all this, he felt like the Valeyard in his first season and a fanboy cosplaying for half of his second. To quote Missy, "That man has no finesse." Peter Capaldi wasn't a total train wreck like Jodie Whittaker but he's by far the worst male Doctor in New Who. And the most frustrating part is that he was given one of the best eras. He had the best companion, one of the best character arcs and his era even proved that gender swapping a Time Lord could work. I would be much more forgiving about Peter Capaldi's performance if the era had been bad.
@@X08-Chill Not even the lack of self-awareness? Peter Capaldi perfected that to a level that would be impressive if it didn't completely contradict the character arc he was supposed to be going through. It's like he didn't bother to familiarise himself with previous episodes, not even in his own series. This guy's supposed to know Doctor Who inside out and back to front, yet he completely forgot or ignored The Name of the Doctor, the fact that David Tennant and Matt Smith met no less than 3 good or redeemed Daleks (one of whom was an incarnation of Clara, so no wonder she slapped him for just assuming all Daleks are evil in Into The Dalek), and the fact that his Doctor was FAR more consistent about letting Clara down than she was about letting him down.
@@tomnorton4277these points you mention are writing choices, nothing to with the portrayal of the character. You seem blurry on what's fiction and reality and yes, he has no self awareness. That's the point. That is what leads up to the conflict at the end of kill the moon. Claras' distress makes him realise his actions were wrong. I know posting this won't change your opinion. Your hatred seems deeply ingrained, like your on a mission to discredit the actor.
Finally! Someone who has acknowledged the relationship between Clara and the Doctor as I have been trying to do for a while now on various videos as being one of two platonic soulmates as opposed to a romantic one. I've always argued that the Doctor shouldn't get romantically involved with his/ her Companions as the backlash to 10 and Rose and Amy trying to sleep with 11 on the eve of her wedding can attest to. Clara and 12 had a deeper, more profound relationship, one where they eventually became equals of sorts. I know that sets some fans on edge since they think Clara then tries to take over the show, but that's the point, she becomes so much like the Doctor that in the end it ends up getting her killed in Face the Raven. When she loses Danny, she loses any thether to a normal life on Earth, all she knows now is her adventures with the Doctor. Series 8 demonstrates this really well with her constant lying to Danny to keep from having to confront what she believes as having to make a decision between him and the Doctor. Things might have turned out different with him if she had been more honest from the beginning, but from this point on we start to see her downfall and inevitable break up with the Doctor. All the other points are good too. 12 not being accepted, first by Clara, and by extension the fans, because he wasn't a pretty face like 10 and 11. He's 2,000 years old! You wouldn't go out with someone who looked like you grandfather, imagine falling for someoen who looks literally like the Mummy on the Orient Express, that's old he would look really if he were human and didn't regenerate! The soldiers arc is well done, and the fact that 12 has to rediscover himself and questions whether or not he is a good man. Of course in the end he is, or at least he tries to be. The Doctor at times can be morally grey on certain things, but he's always trying to look at the big picture, what might save the most people in the future at the expense of a few poor souls in the present. Series 8 is a good series, maybe not the best, but it's up there with other favorite ones. Now on to series 9!
Series 8 is actually one of my favorites. And the way you describe 12 and Clara's relationship is exactly how I see it. I don't like the idea of "reducing their relationship to romance" I think that would weaken their friendship. They're much bigger than romance and that's what makes them a great duo!
Love this review. Capaldi is my favorite doctor. Keep coming to his series’ defense. He is always great - even in bad episodes (looking at you Sleep No More).
Sleep No More is (ironically) a total snoozefest, but I feel it's the price we pay for experimental episodes like Midnight and Heaven Sent. Some experiments are going to be failures - it's well worth having the failures to also have the successes. At least give me Sleep No More over a "safe" but still mediocre episode.
I fully believe that people were just bitter because the doctor wasn’t a “young man” anymore, and I say that because those were my thoughts. After rewatching his run, capaldi is absolutely one of my favorite doctors because you can feel the love he has
season 8 was my first proper season watching it live, and thus it will always hold a special place in my heart. i fcking love not only how incredible, high concept, engaging, and just pretty the capaldi era is, but also its challenging of the audience... most of whom failed! i know so many people who left because of 11s 'death,' and its truly unfortunate just how much *amazing* television they've missed.
Other people dont like that season? I love the scary intesity of that incarnation of the Doctor. I think its the eyebrows (j/k) and Rupert Pink was a very under-utilised character : A Doctor-skeptic=perfect!
I loved when the writers made Capaldi's Doctor like House. Making seemingly callous decisions to win and save the majority of the people he's with. This is expressly seen in Mummy On The Orient Express and I wish this characterization continued into later seasons. To me Mummy is an enjoyable throwback to Classic Who, introducing a lot of secondary characters, sketching them out, and killing a lot of them off. I could see it as a classic 4-parter. I'm not a fan of the hoodie/sunglasses Doctor who jams guitar (even though Capaldi actually does). It came off as a bit too "Hello fellow teenagers" and lost some style.
The sunglasses were suggested by Capaldi as a way of allowing kids to replicate the Doctor look without having to buy an overpriced merchandise Sonic Screwdriver. It's actually pretty heartwarming.
@@alexpotts6520 Yeah. Still not into the edgy teenage grandpa look. Fans like the sonics, The coats, the fezes, the scarves. I still have a full-length T. Baker scarf that I bought in the 80's when I was 13 (frikkin' heavy!) Sunglasses on a kid doesn't make them look like Doctor Who to me. Just a cute kid trying to be cool by wearing shades. Normie fare. Wanna talk overpriced merch? How about those Harry Potter wands? They don't even light up or make sounds!
OMG Yes, Doctor House!! This is EXACTLY a perfect way to explain why I loved Capaldi in Sieres 8! I completely agree with how you feel. It annoys me that Series 8 dedicated so much to Danny Pink instead of The Doctor simply because it was the only series where I feel like Capaldi was allowed to portray him how he wanted to. (According to interviews he's done.)
Only at 1:04 but I love this series or season of Who. Even hated episodes like Kill The Moon with their ridiculous premises(s) imo are very enjoyable. Especially kill the moon because it’s so clear that each character also knows how ridiculous it is, and 12 saying “The moon is an egg” with that sly smile saying “fing hell this is dumb”. Then there’s tons of brilliant lines from capaldi throughout the season, every ep has just wonderfully rude 12th doctor lines. And the awesome living with otters line is one of my favourite one liners. I’d say this is the season with capaldis one liners and the next one is is the season with amazing speeches.
Thank you so much for making this video. Series 8 is my favourite series alongside Series 5 & 10, and of those three it's by far the most under-rated. Into the Dalek in particular is one of my favourite episodes, and seeing DW youtubers that I usually respect criticising it without fully understanding the point of the story (Mr TARDIS, for example) makes me sad. This video is just what I needed to affirm my faith in Capaldi, Moffat, Coleman, and Series 8 overall. Flatline is another fantastic episode, Clara is by far the best companion
@@azngf yknow it's only when I read this comment that I realised that youtube has changed its format so @ names appear instead of the real username... it's supposed to say 'legobi-wan kenobi', but the unfortunate lack of spaces in @ names appears to have worked against me. So uncivilised...
I feel like the reaction to Capaldi (and thus to season 8) was quite severely divided down the line of "people who had only/mainly watched revival Who" and "people who started with/loved classic". To me the Peter Capaldi version was the first time that I really felt that this could be the same guy as Hartnell, Troughton, Pertwee, the Bakers or McCoy - Eccelstone was going for a very different "updated" approach and both Smith and Tennant just felt so YOUNG and energetic that I could only really see Davidson and McGann in them. Capaldi was so much THE DOCTOR and I loved him from the start because of that.
DW, the only TV show all about change, with a bunch of 'fans' who don't want anything to change. Thanks for a great overview of this underrated, but fantastic series!
i love capaldi, his entire tenure is a mixed bag that will hold things anybody will love, its so difficult for me to pick a favourite between series 8, 9 and 10 as they all feel a lot different yet still with capaldi's same performance. The appreciation he has gotten in general has deff upped a lot tho over the years as capaldi is your "lategame scaling" doctor as id like to call it. he's enjoyable and quickly feels like the doctor, you accept him in the role, enjoy the good, hate the bad, etc. usual doctor who stuff... then you look back when he's gone and oh my god his speeching, his acting, the detail put in makes you realise more n more with time how relatable he is and how deep he struck your heart.
I love series 8. I love how much Twelve evolved throughout his era. It seemed his brusqueness was partly a cover for his immense vulnerability. He genuinely cared so much but had to make those difficult decisions over and over again. Oh, and Peter Capaldi is my absolute favorite Doctor.
Not sure how you manage to be so engaging and mimic how I feel about the show whilst challenging some notions that I have. Thanks Harbo and i cant wait for season 9 when it comes
Series 8 is one of my all time favourite Seasons of the whole show, the doctor's arc is fantastic and fresh, Clara is an actually good character, Missy is a brilliant master, and I don't think there is an unenjoyabe episode in the whole season. The only bad episode is forest of the night, and even then its not a boring watch. Kill the moon is criminaly underrated, Time Heist is fantastic, Robot of Sherwood is (no joke) one of the best adaptations of Robin Hood ever, Listen is one of the best episodes of whole show.
I loved the 12th doctor anyway but felt his era missed the mark. Upon a rewatch though, I completely changed my mind. His era is incredible. His character arc is brilliant. The Missy arc is really well done and Clara was actually a really great foil for the 12th doctor. His era is a far more mature era compared to the 11th doctor.
I personally think people often forget that 12 has a defence mechanism hence his arrogance and sarcasm and not liking hugs to avoid connecting to people to avoid breaking his heart like so many times before but he starts to realise he shouldn’t be living like this till he finally realises during dark water/death in heaven (am I an idiot speech). It also doesn’t help that the doctor is also trying to work out whether he should still judge himself to the promise of the name of the doctor. I’m personally someone who prefers 12s era over 10s era (10 is my least favourite doctor). Overall I feel 12 has the best character development
I think two big contributing factors were 1) fans dropping off with the loss of Matt Smith, and 2) the collective hate the fan-base had against Clara Oswald. A lot of people refused to see how she grew as a character from season 7b into season 8, and nothing she did could change their minds. Haters also seem completely unwilling to admit how deep the relationship between Clara and the Doctor is, so they effectively missed the emotional cores of season 8 and 9. If you don't believe that Clara and the Doctor deeply love each other (platonically/romantically, it doesn't matter) then you WILL MISS THE ENTIRE FUCKING POINT OF BOTH SEASONS!!!! Hopefully, as time passes, people will begin to realize how amazing seasons 8 & 9 were, and how truely great 12 & Clara were together.
Great wrap up! This era on re-watch is quality Doctor Who. I remember when the scripts leaked early for this season, I snuck a read and even on paper these are gems before the acting and visuals bring it to life. Capaldi, Coleman and Gomez were great.
the capaldi years are such a strong deconstruction and reinvention of everything that came before it, to the point where Series 10 still feels like the freshest series to me six years, a doctor and a showrunner later. easily the most consistent run doctor who has ever had, which feels like a breakthrough after an exciting but wildly inconsistent first few years for steven moffat as showrunner. we had it so good back then.
Love love love series 8, Capaldi, and Clara!! It’s way underrated and I closely identified with Clara’s character, so it is always a little personal when people say she’s annoying, controlling, all that. She just met the doctor as an imperfect equal. Capaldi felt like a true doctor, funny and old and alien. His particular relationship with River was beautiful. The episodes were aesthetically pleasing, and Clara’s life is much more fleshed out than past characters’.
Series 8 is definitely one of my faves (as is 10), I think it’s such a good stepping off point for new viewers because Capaldi has more of that Classic Who vibe with his incarnation, and it’s nice have this type of maturation :)!
Series 8 in my opinion probably one of the best new series seasons it’s so fun and action packed I see it as a strong season definitely one of Stephen Moffat’s best seasons
I would also include the (reanimated) Brigadier in the list of soldiers. I think the Doctor's salute demonstrates his new-found respect for soldiers as well as his interactions with Danny. Thanks for another great video.
I like at 17:40 Danny Pink still wears the watch and strap he had in the Army. I also think his surrender to the Foretold was great. Never understand why people say he hates soldiers he was one of the few people who cared about Ross Jenkins. Never understood why people hate Clara and Danny Pink. Possibly his hatred of soldiers was his past as the War Doctor a soldier not just any soldier a officer.
I ABSOLUTELY LOVED THIS SERIES AND PETER CAPALDI AND JENNA COLEMAN'S INTERACTION IN THIS SERIES 8!!!GARY BAILEY KING OF DARKNESS AND GOD OF THUNDER AND LIGHTNING
14:40 I said this in the vid you made on Mummy on the Orient express, but I'll repeat it again here cause its so true to what you said. The doctor and Clara's relationship is the dark version of a similar one I've seen in the Japanese lightnovel Toaru Majutsu no Index. They are flawed Understanders which means while they can quickly grasp what the other wants or needs at the foundation they have a single misconception that poisons their understanding. Rather than a mutual desire for the other's well being, they have an addiction of sorts to the other where even though things keep getting worse they can't step away. It was a relationship born purely out of happenstance with them meeting as allies and the doctor desiring to know who and what Clara is. This is, amusingly a direct contrast and in some cases inversion of that LN relationship I mentioned prior involving the characters Kamijou Touma and Magic God Othinus. The two of them are true Understanders meaning there are no secrets between them and words needn't even be spoken for the other to know what the other is trying to say. They physically cannot misunderstand the other's actions or words and thus hold no misconceptions or insecurities about the other. They share a mutual desire for the other's well being and happiness acting as the other's anchor and moral compass in order to bring out the best in eachother. While they may not always agree with eachother, they will always work towards a mutual goal and will modify their plans in order to ensure the other's happiness in the end. Rather than being a relationship born our of happenstance and being allies however, ironically their bond was born out of intent as worst enemies. Forged out of a trial by fire which ended in them truly getting to know the other as who they were rather than the titles or faces they wore. In a very interesting turn of events, The 12th doctor is very much what Touma could become like if he lost Othinus, or if you took Othinus and Touma's personalities and mashed them together. In fact the similarities between the 12th doctor and Touma are so numerous that the episodes Hell Bent and Heaven Sent are like the NT9-10 of doctor who. Right down to both of them spending billions of years reliving the same hell over and over again, (and in the novelization the architech of that hell even developing feelings for them due to forming an understanding of the one they were tormenting and desiring to see them happy. Except the veil was more an unwilling participant where Othinus until she realized the truth was actively trying to break the main character.) With the both of them going against the universe/world itself to save the one they suffered through hell for, (the doctor Violating the fixed point in time that was Clara's death. And Touma declaring war against the world to protect Othinus and give her a fair trial, which is one of the many details that shows that he doesn't have stockholm syndrome.) And knowing Doctor who's writers have often been Anime fans and the point at which this story was released, it wouldn't be entirely surprising if there was some inspiration. However due to the obscurity of Toaru, it's unlikely the writers would admit to being inspired unless you directly asked about Toaru specifically... even then it's quite the coincidence.
I didn't like it very much at the time (I was quite young and bitter about Matt Smith leaving tbh) but upon rewatching it Season 8 is actually very strong
I love series 8 back when I was in High School, and I still love it! I will admit I felt more connected to Peter Capaldi as the 12th Doctor, and he is my second favorite Doctor in the new series. I really felt like the writing was getting better and when I first watched this series, I was like this is pure Doctor Who. When I see the 12th Doctor hating soldiers, I felt like that was the 9th Doctor in him who would hate soldiers because of the Time War. Series 8 was my last series in High School and Peter Capaldi was my Doctor in my Senior year in High School.
I loved it at the time and still do. Forests of the Night is almost as bad as Fear Her but Capaldi is always fun. Danny is one of my favourite NuWho characters. Never understood why people vocally disliked him.
Because we didn’t know how bad the future and Jodie would be. If we had any idea we would have savored every second like it was our last breath or last taste of candy before having to drink septic waste.
even if it's the weakest link this series, it's not as bad as people say it when it released though. 12 and clara has better chemistry than 11 and clara. which is more important in the totem pole on making a series work at least.
This is arguably better than the clips they awkwardly stitched in the actual thing, this actually felt like they were talking to each other. And adding the future doctors beyond Capaldi was a master stroke, I hope we see a new version when Gatwa lands 😉
This era (Capaldi's era) feels like going back to RTD....but fresher, I don't know why but for me the eleventh Doctor era seems a little out of place, it might be because of the incarnation but things feel a little odd to me, but season eight-ten feels right, am I making sense here?
Thank you Harbo. Really, thank you. I really need to tell you this : You Helped Me. You are a "COUNTER-SPOILER" It is easy to point out "what's wrong" (e.g. plot holes, errors, etc.) and bring people to stop liking what they liked - "spoiling" the fun. Spoilers are not only spoiling the surprise or suspense, it is also - spoiling the "suspension of disbelief" (showing the magician's trick, so the show is no longer magic) - spoiling the liking of something by pointing out flaws that one didn't spot in the beginning (showing the warts so that one doesn't see the smile anymore) So, yeah, critics can be spoilers without revealing the intrigue, just by runing someone's enjoyment (I don't care knowing the end, I care that I can feel the magic and believe the story) It is quite harder to do the exact opposite. And YOU manage that. Some episodes were just... meh, for me. You pointed out all their merits, the good stuff in them, put light into characters that I disliked... That is a rare skill. And doing it for us... That is in your honour. THANK. YOU.
If I were to rate capaldi’s era I’d rate series 10 as the best, then series 8, then series 9. Series 8 just has more good episodes and has a more clear over arching story thing(the Missy teasers leading to the finale) and character development. Series 10 is just good overall on all things
Series 8 was where my long time love for Doctor Who really started to die…now this had happened before, namely with Matt Smith’s first series which was just too great a change for me initially, I remember particularly with the Dalek story and Amy not knowing who the Daleks were after Earth had been invaded by them (twice!) during Amy’s life at least…it just felt like they wrote it and then remembered what happened in Series 2 and 4 and said Oh damn! And then tried to squeeze in an explanation. But ironically it was River and especially the Angel 2 parter that pulled me back in, then again River in the Pandorica story tho I didn’t initially take to her in The Library story. But here she was familiar, at least a bit, which I desperately needed because I suddenly felt like my series that I loved and brought me much comfort and happiness in life was suddenly alien and unfamiliar and left me feeling odd and alone at the characters I didn’t know, a TARDIS I no longer recognized, etc. But Ari er saved it for me; and her mystery allowed me to get used to Amy and the Doctor so by Series 6 I was once again and big ole happy FanBoy! This never happened with Series 8, even tho the Paternoster Gang being in the opening story gave it an Ernest effort; I wish they’d been in it more, even acting as a “home base” briefly between main stories….I didn’t like Capaldo’s Doctor. At all. This felt traitorous to me as I knew Capaldi was a long time fan. Partly, and I know this will be odd, but I loved Fires,of Pompeii and had watched it many times…and the whole “why this face?” But they talked about in the meds to explain why the doctor “picked” this face…absolutely NOTHING was done with this. It’s like they knew the change would be a shock and brought in the Paternoster Gang. And that die hard fans would recall Capaldi (but hey, happened with Colin Baker…and that went okay…right?). But again the Doctor was too different. He was mean and didn’t feel like the cool wacky friend you want to run off exploring the Universe with…this guy was a prick and anyone would have left the TARDIS, or kicked out the asshole and tried to pilot it yourself. Clara turned intolerable. The whole Danny Pink double life and sudden career as a teacher just felt so…forced? And full disclosure, I’m a Yank, never have trouble with accents, but I absolutely could not understand what Capaldi said half the time! Maybe I’m getting old, I dunno. Missy was an exciting and unexpected twist, but I HATED the Cyberman bringing back the dead…especially people we loved. It felt disrespectful and nightmarish. And jumping around, I know, but Kill the Moon was the absolute stupidest, most idiotic piece of shite ever masquerading as “Science” Fiction. Seriously, I was so repulsed at how immediately stupid it was…suspension of disbelief works if you have even a basic attempt at reconciling with the real world…have the characters who are supposed to be intelligent RECOGNIZE when something wouldn’t happen in the real world and offer a bit of technobabble about it, even if it’s just to say “well that shouldn’t happen!” Or “that doesn’t make any sense!” It lets the viewer say “Okay, so they realize this is ludicrous or bizarre, we’ll get an explanation later”. That either never happened or no explanation was ever adequately offered. Moon gravitational disruptions are fine…but not that can cause a person in a moon base room to float away yet not affect the other characters in the room! They even try to reach her to pull her down? They All should have floated! The whole “turn your lights on to signal yay or nay that we’ll see on the moon!” Absolute ignorance; you can’t see lights from the moon and they already said a lot of the earth had suffered catastrophes so this “democratic” decision couldn’t been seen and most of the earth might not have had power or have passed into night that would,d even be viewable,from the moon which also revolves around the earth as well within that limited time period…there are so many things in this single episode that absolutely shat on Doctor Who’s legacy as an educational series that teaches while entertaining. Most of the stories were just awful drivel. I didn’t enjoy a Capaldi episode until the Zygon invasion one (another significant point; I always knew the titles of Doctor Who stories…until series 8. I then mainly would only remember the ones that that were particularly awful like Kill the Moon. I didn’t enjoy more episodes in a Capaldi than one I *hated* until Series 10. And tho The River Song Christmas special gets riled by apparently many fans, to me it was the ONLY Capaldi Christmas special worth watching and the ONLY Capaldi story that I watched more than once. It’s the only story that feels even tenuously related to the show I previously loved or convincingly makes the character Capaldi plays the same one that was David Tennant and Matt Smith. Even River takes forever to realize who this person is, which to me is quite telling, if on a subconscious level, that the writer (ahem, who was that again?) ;-) realized on some level how drastically different (and alienating?) this take on the Doctor was and said it by having his WiFE who knew every incarnation couldn’t even recognize who he was. I think that’s why the character seems so much more tolerable in Series 10. And Bill is a much needed breath of fresh air as Clara was one of the few companions that way overstayed her welcome. Gesus I wanted her gone! Bill and Nardole are great, as is Missy’s inclusion near the end…I so wish that could have been a TARDIS foursome for several episodes, even half a series (or more?). It was wonderful, and would have made the old mean Master’s return and fight/union/fight with Missy that we’ve come to like that much more poignant and tragic. Anyway, I know this was just Series 8 but it was so dreadful and felt so weird and unenjoyably alien to me that I had to include that I did find some redeeming qualities later. But my love for Who never fully recovered and I felt the 13th Doctor and her “fam” were even worse than the Capaldi era. That too felt a bit better in her last series but only barely; the Village of Angels or whatever it’s called being the only Jodie Whitaker episode I would watch again. Maybe Power of the Doctor for nostalgia. It it says how important familiar elements can be, even for long time viewers like myself who literally grew up on Tom Baker and similarly felt drifting away from the series with later classic Doctors. Those familiar and known friendly (not always, but you know what I mean) can sometimes be the difference between sticking with the series, and ditching it completely. Having no returning monsters or friends in Whittaker’s first season and limited even in her second I think really hurt the series. Something to keep in mind for future show runners, tho let’s hope RTD will bring back the magic to Doctor Who and stay around an very very long time to come and just keep our favorite series getting better and better!!! :-)
Si, lo de familia fue aceptanle que dijera 11th porque verdaderamente era su familia. Francamentte la era de 13thdoctor era un desastre en relacion a como fue llevada la interaccion de doctor/companion. Se olvidaron de eso. No disfrute como las otras la era de Jodie. Para mi quedo en twelve y ahora sigue 14th...
I remember disliking a lot of Series 8 but having rewatched it in its entirety alongside the release of these videos, its become my favorite of the Capaldi era, heck even the Moffat era. Absolutely superb series. Even the obviously bad episodes like Kill the Moon and In the Forest of the Night are filled with exceptional acting and character work. And it has Listen, Time Heist, Mummy on the Orient Express, and Flatline. What a great season
Agreeing that a lot of people discovered Doctor Who with the New Era, and so they got used to David T. and Matt S., so they're disappointed to see a Peter Capaldi's Doctor, because he is extremely different. 4 reasons at least to explain that : 1 - He does not look like them, physically. He is much older and will not have this same charming, almost seductive relationship with the public, who will have more difficulty to identify with him. 2 - He is older and therefore it can be even more difficult for the younger audience to identify with. 3 - This Doctor is a bit of an anti-doctor, if we compare him to the two previous doctors of the New Era. Where David T. was playful, very similar to humans, sometimes angry but overall very enthusiastic and outgoing, and where Matt S. was similar but wackier, more "alien", with a lot of tenderness and humor, the Doctor of Peter C. is grumpy, more introverted, less empathetic, judgmental, and often condescending. 4 - The fact that this Doctor thinks out loud a lot reinforces his egocentric facet. He gives the impression of being even more indifferent to those around him by placing much more value on his intellect and his thoughts. Somehow, Peter Capaldi's doctor is the Sheldon Cooper of the doctors.
Honestly, I prefer these early Capaldi Episodes. A good way to gauge my enjoyment is to track the length of the Doctor's hair. The shorter, the better lol. After years of "Hot Boyfriend from Space" Series 8 made him feel so... Alien. I will admit, I was a naughty nelly by reading the leaked scripts beforehand (I knew "Listen" was going to be amazing weeks in advance). I fell in love with this abrasive version... As he softened, I was less enthused.
I totally agree. I was not initially a fan of certain aspects of this season, but later felt they built up and came together quite well for a very satisfying story.
I do think the initial reaction was more to do with the ratings creating a narrative that the show was in decline. To me, the very best legacy of the early Nu Who era being so popular is that it allowed risks and complexity to be introduced in series 8, 9 and 10.
Series 8 was the first NuWho series I'd directly watched along with following my inundation into the fandom during its week-long full series run-up leading to the premiere. So while I wouldn't necessarily call it my *top* favorite season, it'll always hold a special place in my heart. 💙🕰
Ironically, series 8 was one that I also didn't really like when I first watched it, the next series was the only one I watched in full until Whittaker started, yet rewatching it the last few weeks I enjoyed it. I dont think I knew it was the jumping off point for a lot of fans. I guess that kind of storytelling wasn't something that I got or was able to enjoy at the time, glad to see that that's changed now
thank you so much for making this!! it has driven me INSANE how much people hate on Capaldi's seasons with no appreciation. this is peak Who for me. there is no way in heck you could convince me the majority of Tennant's series writing is better than this, that's just baloney. I've watched through all those series once, and revisited specific eps, but ive watched Capaldi's run at least 3 times all the way through + tons of watches on episodes like listen and heaven sent. jeez it's great. your telling me people will hate on Danny pink while loving Mickey and Jackie??? SMH
Peter Capaldi was miscast. That's the problem. He played the Doctor as a misanthropic, manipulative sociopath and unlike Sylvester McCoy, he had none of the charm and warmth that was needed to balance it out. He should have been the War Doctor and let John Hurt handle Seasons 8 and 9.
@@tomnorton4277 John Hurt was too old to play the Doctor, he couldn't have done any of the physical activity required to play the role. Not to mention the fact that his health severely declined around 2016. I'd recommend going back and watching the Capaldi era again because if you genuinely think that this Doctor was a manipulative sociopath then you've either fundamentally misunderstood the whole point of this incarnation, or you don't know what a sociopath is.
@@alexpotts6520 That's what Peter Capaldi was going for. He failed. It doesn't matter what he intended to be. The final result is that he came across as the Valeyard, then clumsily tried to stitch the Doctor back together by suggesting the guitar and sonic sunglasses. Those were his ideas not the writers, so the jarring shift between the Valeyard and the Doctor in his first and second season was his fault. The actual Valeyard, Michael Jayston, was deliberately being a machiavellian sociopath and knew exactly what his character was meant to be. In order to prove that Peter Capaldi wasn't miscast, they should have had the Valeyard hanging out with Missy. Peter Capaldi already had 6 safety nets in Deep Breath alone but he needed all the help he could get, so having a 7th in the form of the Valeyard would have been beneficial. Not only would it explain why the Doctor was being such a shitstain but Season 8 was the perfect time for the Valeyard to manifest. The Master confirmed that he's "somewhere between your 12th and final incarnation" and since Matt Smith is the true 12th Doctor and this was the start of a new regeneration cycle, there will never be a better time for the Valeyard to show up. Steven Moffat could have explained Michael Jayston's ageing like he did for Peter Davison in Time Crash. Peter Capaldi was a terrible choice for this Doctor. Since Michael Jayston didn't return, Capaldi should have been the War Doctor, the one Doctor who could actually get away with coming across as a villain, and let John Hurt handle this. John Hurt could play cynical and grouchy without coming across as villainous and I would kill to see him and Clara Oswald do Seasons 8 and 9 together. I only put up with Peter Capaldi for Clara's sake. Even in Heaven Sent, I didn't give a crap about the Doctor's pain because I'd transitioned from hating Peter Capaldi's portrayal to just being indifferent to him. If John Hurt was doing it, he wouldn't have spent his entire first season ruining the Doctor and half of his second frantically trying to repair the damage. I would have actually cared about what the Doctor was going through instead of just wanting him to get on with it and rescue Clara.
@@legobi_wan_kenobi I understood the incarnation perfectly and I've researched sociopathy. This Doctor SHOULD have been amazing. His character arc is the best since Christopher Ecclestone. A Doctor questioning if he's a good man and working to improve himself is a brilliant story. On paper. Peter Capaldi simply botched it through sheer incompetence. He had none of the self-awareness that's required for the "Am I a good man?" character arc to work. I know exactly what he was going for but he failed. He was miscast, plain and simple.
I enjoyed series 8 and the direction the writer chose to explore. Those that are giving it negative remarks/reviews are not recognising the depth and his identity being explored given that the doctor has been around so long.👍
I recognise the depth. I just felt like we were exploring the Valeyard, not the Doctor. I wasn't watching a good man question his identity, I was watching a terrible man go through a redemption arc. That clearly wasn't what the writers were going for. They intended for this Doctor to be darker but Peter Capaldi went too far and made him look outright villainous. Every time Peter Capaldi did a good deed or said something that wasn't vile, I felt like he had a selfish or sometimes even outright sinister ulterior motive. Even "Do you think I care for you so little that betraying me would make a difference?" didn't work because although the line is great in isolation, it came after the Doctor had been treating Clara like trash for the entire season. Why on earth would she assume that he cared? Whenever he wasn't outright throwing her to the wolves in Deep Breath and Kill The Moon or manipulating her into being his "accomplice" in Mummy on the Orient Express, he was constantly throwing mean spirited insults and treating Clara like a burden. The writers intended for those jabs towards Clara to be jokes but Peter Capaldi has such a poor grasp of humour that whenever he delivered them, he sounded like he was deliberately trying to upset her. Clara was thick skinned enough to just shrug them off but that's an example of most of the chemistry in the relationship coming from her. She was doing the heavy lifting but chemistry doesn't work if it's coming from one side. In Dark Water, Peter Capaldi unintentionally made the Doctor look like the bad guy in a scene that was intended to present Clara as being in the wrong. Not only did he deliberately prolong her pain out of a sick curiosity to "see how far you would go" but the staggering lack of self-awareness in his "You let me down!" speech was infuriating. If Capaldi had delivered it quietly, like he was as upset with himself as he was with Clara, it would have worked but instead he bellowed it in the most self-righteous way possible. He let Clara down over and over again throughout Season 8 and just expected her to be okay with it but when Clara let him down ONCE after her boyfriend died, he had the fucking audacity to throw a tantrum. And then, just to top it off, he decided to gaslight her by saying that SHE was the one who was whining after she let him vent without a single complaint! Again, Peter Capaldi could have saved that line if he said it to himself instead of to her but that would require self-awareness. If he had anybody else who cared about him enough to stay, I got the feeling that Peter Capaldi would abandon Clara without a care in the world. Even in Face The Raven, I was half expecting him to betray her and reveal that her death was all part of the plan. That late in the story, I should have had absolutely no doubt that the Doctor cared about Clara but Peter Capaldi has such an unintentionally villainous presence that it felt like an abusive relationship. It's similar to Harley Quinn and Joker. Clara put her heart and soul into the relationship, making sacrifices for the Doctor over and over again, and he just kept taking her for granted as though he felt like he owned her. That was NOT what the writers intended but it's how Peter Capaldi played it and he didn't have enough self-awareness to realise he was doing it. They should have had Michael Jayston hanging out with Missy. This was not only the perfect time for the Valeyard to show up but it would prove that the Doctor turning into a villain was intentional. Steven Moffat could explain why Jayston looks older with a similar explanation to the one he gave Peter Davison in Time Crash. At the end of Season 8, the Valeyard should've escaped the nethersphere and gone back to Colin Baker's era. After the Valeyard left, Peter Capaldi's sudden shift from being a total disgrace to the Doctor's name in his 1st season to a halfway decent Doctor in his 2nd would have an in universe reason to be so jarring since the physical embodiment of his evil side had only just cleared off. And on top of all that, it would be nice to see Michael Jayston again. He's a great actor but tends to go under the radar due to the controversies around Colin Baker's era.
Capaldi's era is the golden age of the modern Doctor - nobody did more than him to develop the character. If people are too lazy intellectually and want just entertainment - I pity them
It would be the golden age if John Hurt was doing it. He would have done the exact same character arc without unintentionally playing the Doctor as a misanthropic sociopath who's desperately overcompensating for his own insecurities. Even after he dropped the sociopathy and misanthropy in a frantic attempt to repair his incarnation, Peter Capaldi was still overcompensating with the sonic sunglasses and guitar, both of which HE suggested. The man had no idea how to relax and therefore conveyed none of the confidence that the Doctor needs. And no, delivering a speech is not confidence. If anything, that's more overcompensation. The only way Peter Capaldi could convey that the Doctor is the most powerful man in the universe was by being angry. Jon Pertwee, Tom Baker, Colin Baker (despite his stupid costume), Sylvester McCoy, John Hurt, Christopher Ecclestone, David Tennant and Matt Smith could all do it by simply striding into a room, or in McCoy's case walking away from a real life explosion without flinching. And half of them were from before the Doctor built up his formidable reputation in the Time War. Peter Capaldi knew he was wrong for the role. He turned it down for the Paul McGann movie, admitted that "I wouldn't have hired me" and even at the end of his era, he confessed "It would be a mistake to say I know how to do this". If he'd brought that self-awareness to the Doctor, it would have worked but his Doctor suffered from a disgusting lack of self-awareness. Listening to him lecture Clara about shit that he'd already done himself without the slightest hint of awareness that he was being a massive hypocrite was infuriating. It made his claims of wanting to be a good man come across as insincere virtue signalling rather than a genuine desire to improve himself. Without self-awareness, the "Am I a good man?" character arc doesn't work. Self-awareness is THE most important trait for a man who's genuinely questioning if he's a good person or not. On its own, having a hypocritical Doctor can work but if he doesn't KNOW he's a hypocrite, then he's not doing any genuine introspection. The whole point of this arc was to be introspective. Ironically, Peter Capaldi would have been a far better Doctor if he WASN'T acting, just like Tom Baker, who's technically an inferior actor but was a far better Doctor. By trying so hard to be something he's not and abandoning the most important trait required to actually sell this arc, Peter Capaldi ruined the character. Peter Capaldi should have been the War Doctor and John Hurt should have handled the 12th. If Peter Capaldi botched the War Doctor, it would simply exemplify why later Doctor's were ashamed of him being part of their regeneration cycle, so it's a win-win regardless of whether Capaldi's performance was good or bad. John Hurt was far better suited to an introspective character arc. The only thing holding him back was his age because in terms of raw acting skill, he made Peter Capaldi look like an amateur in comparison, especially since he was under FAR more pressure to get the Doctor right. John Hurt would have brought the necessary self-awareness to sell the "Am I a good man?" character arc which is, on paper, the best arc the Doctor has had since Christopher Ecclestone. The only problem is that John Hurt died only 4 years after Day of the Doctor. He could have squeezed in Seasons 8 and 9 - William Hartnell kept going whilst dealing with a serious illness and a vicious work schedule - but he wouldn't have been alive for Season 10, unless this alternate reality gave him a longer life. But honestly, standing with River Song at Darrillium would have been a beautiful finale for him. John Hurt was born to play the Doctor but ended up playing the wrong incarnation.
@@tomnorton4277 The very fact that you wrote a 2-page essay replying to a simple statement shows the depth of Capaldi's character :) I would argue with you on almost every point you make, but let's agree to disagree. I will only note that everything you described, that insane combination of human and alien features - that is what makes the Doctor.
@@VladimirBlagoderov A deep character is great. Ruining the Doctor is bad. The Doctor's core character had been defined as a caring, intelligent and brave man for 50 years by that point. Even Sylvester McCoy understood that so he was able to balance out his darker side. Peter Capaldi was playing a different character without even realising it. This might as well have been a spinoff about a completely separate Time Lord who deluded himself into thinking he was the Doctor.
@@VladimirBlagoderov I love a complex character as much as the next guy. Clara Oswald's one of my favourite fictional characters, period. However, the Doctor has an established set of character traits that every incarnation must adhere to, or else he's a different man. At his core, the Doctor is caring, intelligent and brave. Even the more sociopathic ones like Colin Baker and Sylvester McCoy managed to get that right. When McCoy treated Ace like crap, it was because he had bigger goals in mind. When Capaldi treated Clara like crap, it was simply because he was "curious to see how far you would go". Peter Capaldi wasn't caring until his second season unless he wanted something from Clara, he presented the Doctor as being less intelligent than the writing intended several times, and he spent half of his first season running away with his tail between his legs when the going got tough. He stomped all over the Doctor's "never cruel or cowardly" principle. Hell, even when the Doctor manned up and approached the Foretold, Peter Capaldi conveyed none of the self-assurance that's required to play the most powerful man in the universe. He waddled towards that thing like a duck. Any real Doctor after the Time War, and at least half of the Doctors before it, would stride up to that monster, not waddle towards it.
A great review of Series 8, Harbo! I'm glad to see some Doctor Who appreciation videos. For me, Series 8 is a series I have come to appreciate more once I rewatched it years after its release. At first, I didn't love the series and found it a mess. Now, while I do think it still has problems, it is filled to the brim with phenomenal ideas that are very welcome. Love the idea of The Doctor's arc! Overall, if you didn't like Series 8 on first viewing like quite a number of people I know, I'd recommend giving it a rewatch, cause from my discussions and my own experience, it definitely improves after a second viewing. Very excited about your Series 9 reviews, Harbo!
My series ranking is: 11 - in the forest of the shite 10- robot of sherwood 9 - into the darlek 8- deep breath 7 - time heist 6 - the caretaker 5- kill the moon 4 - listen 3 - mummy on the orient express 2 - dark water / death in heaven 1 - flatline
@@alexpotts6520 I just loved the tension it created between 12 and Clara, Clara's acting was on point and although the sci fi concept might be a bit farfetched like it's doctor who lmao alot of there concepts r wacky lmao, admittedly I think the concept would have worked better if the moon was orbiting a different planet but it is what it is, also the visuals of the episode were top notch. I look at the episode not for the concept it tried to execute but the character development
@@jumbojaba1235 Hmm, maybe I'll have to revisit it. All I really remember is the moon being an egg, that annoying rebel kid and an utterly confused abortion allegory. Maybe there it's more salvageable than I remember.
This video literally explains what I cannot communicate well about the season. On first watch this season was what stopped me watching the show but After my recent rewatch I love it. All the things I love too is what you are saying, just you do it way better xd
Not sure where to categorise myself as Dr Who fan. I came in as a youngster with Sylvester McCoy as it was dying and was delighted to see it return in the modern era done with a respectable enough budget to take it beyond the sometimes charming sometimes ridiculous looking days of old. I've dipped in and out of some of the stuff that predated my viewing, I liked Hartnell and loved Tom Baker but never took to any of the others too fondly. Doing some of them a disservice I'm sure. I did enjoy some Jon Pertwee episodes but I can't say I warmed to him. I've never seen a Colin Baker episode and no disrespect to Peter Davison but I can't help but see Tristam Farnham and I seriously disliked his cricket blazer look or whatever it is he wore. I've rarely rewatch an episode but I always look forward to new ones but I can safely say my favourite iteration of the new era is Peter Capaldi. I really enjoyed Eccleston, Tennant and Smith but there was something just the right amount of blunt curmudgeon and charisma about Capaldi and I liked the dynamic with Clara and Bill much more than other companions who I liked well enough at the time. Was a shame he didn't stay longer but I guess no one wants to be tied to it for too long.
25:26 - 25:40 That seems to be the standard of DW by this point whenever the show goes into a bold new direction to keep being fresh. Fans who got used to the previous style of the show are suddenly confronted with a whole new style that is often deliberately different to distinguish it from what came before. But instead of embracing this difference just like the difference of the Doctor in a new incarnation, the fans refuse to accept the new incarnation of the show (sometimes along with the new incarnation of the Doctor). I wonder how many fans will do that with the 15th Doctor and series 14.
I will do the opposite tbh. I *want* this to be radically different from the first RTD era - since then the man has pushed out some great work like It's A Sin, Years And Years and A Very English Scandal. He's grown and I want Doctor Who to grow with him, but all the signs are looking like it will be getting-the-band-back-together nostalgia bait - capped off by the announcement that it's now being produced in partnership with Disney, the nostalgia bait masters.
I enjoy this season. Mummy on the Orient Express, Flatline and Time Heist are my favorites, but I really enjoy just about every episode. One or two episodes are pretty bad, but I just ignore those episodes.
I always tune out when we get a new doctor. It's like I enter a mourning phase and need time to process a real death. I end up coming back after a year or so and thoroughly enjoy myself with the new characters including the new doctor. Capaldi was the first doctor I identified with and while i cant definitively say he's my favorite doctor, some of my personal favorite episodes definitely come from his run.
same, that hits deep. It genuinely is like mourning someone you've come to know really well. Personally though, I didn't get that with Series 8 because I was actually ready to let the Eleventh Doctor go after Series 7 - he's one of my favourites, don't get me wrong, but he had a good run culminating in the 50th Anniversary celebrations and I was ready to accept a new and older Doctor (which sounds like a contradiction when I say it like that, but that's Doctor Who for you)
Si el cambio es progresivo y adaptarte a eso es un proceso. Yo tampoco acepte al principio ver a Clara sustituir a los Ponds, por eso senti un sabor agridulce con 11th/Clara. Recien acepte el cambio con 12th/Clara.
Watching the reviews of this series have made me appreciate it more than I did when it aired. Whilst I still regard it as not the most stand out series, I have since realised over the years it is better than I remember it when it aired and realised what the stories were trying to do. But watching these videos has made me actually like it more and want to re-watch as well. Maybe its nostalgia now, maybe its just because I was 12 when it aired and remember cringing a lot at the awkward romance and humour when watching with my family or perhaps because the last 5 years of the show have made me re-evaluate what doctor who is/can be and what makes a good series. Maybe its just because its the type that's less obvious what's good about it and requires multiple re-watches to truly appreciate because it is more layered than some. Whatever it is, I can't believe its almost 10 years old and I sorely miss Capaldi in the role.
Series 8 is easily the series that I enjoyed the least overall on first viewing, but I feel like that’s largely a combination of it being the first series since series 3 that I’d watched during the original broadcast and the fact that, after getting back into the show just after the 50th anniversary, I had binged my way through the preceding episodes largely at random, causing my idea of a “good” episode to be largely based on Russell T Davies’ run rather than Steven Moffat’s
No idea. It's the best Capaldi series, one of the best Doctor Who series ever. It's so tight thematically so focused. Some of Moffatt's best and boldest work
Take out kill the moon ,so awful that episode ,it will be a great series .I happy that no 12 is now being greatly appreciated and recognised as the best actor to play the doctor .
Kill The Moon is a great episode. On paper, the Doctor pushing Clara Oswald out of her comfort zone to help her become stronger is a great idea and the moon being too small to contain a fully grown space dragon is no different from the TARDIS being too small to contain the Doctor's home. In practice, Clara fulfilled her role perfectly but Peter Capaldi acted like a man who didn't realise the blatantly obvious which was that he betrayed her trust. Hell, this is very similar to the situation he was in at the end of the Time War, yet he couldn't rub a few brain cells together and understand why Clara was upset? Smartest man in the universe, ladies and gentleman! The thing is, this could have worked if Peter Capaldi had played it like a man who genuinely believed he was helping Clara. However, the way he delivered "That was me... respecting you" sounded like he was desperately grasping for excuses instead of genuinely believing his own words. It's an example of him being effortlessly outshone by a woman almost 3 decades younger than him. Peter Capaldi may have more experience but he barely has half as much talent. Peter Capaldi is nowhere near the best actor to play the Doctor. John Hurt was a FAR better actor and had the resume to prove it. Patrick Troughton was also vastly more talented because I promise you (and I VERY rarely make promises) that Doctor Who wouldn't have survived past William Hartnell if Peter Capaldi was in his place. Even a whippersnapper like Matt Smith made Peter Capaldi look like an amateur in comparison because he was stepping into the massive shoes of David Tennant without a single safety net. Peter Capaldi had 6 safety nets in Deep Breath alone and he needed every single one of them. He was born to play villains, assholes and side characters and should have stuck to that because he has no idea how to play a leading hero.
I like to think of 12 and Clara's relationship as something that can't quite be defined by human standards. It expresses platonically but they have twinges of romance. In internet speak: not platonic, not romantic, but a secret thrid thing 😂
I wish Clara had been doing Seasons 8 and 9 with John Hurt. Peter Capaldi played the Doctor like the Valeyard for his entire first season and was still struggling to find a portrayal that worked in his second. Clara carried Season 8 and at least half of Season 9 on her shoulders, so most of the chemistry in the relationship came from her. I felt like the Doctor died with Matt Smith until Peter Capaldi FINALLY got him right with his anti-war speech in The Zygon Inversion, 21 episodes after he joined the show. Even after that, I half expected the Valeyard to reveal himself in Face The Raven to tell Clara that he'd planned her death in some kind of twisted "greater good" scheme that even Sylvester McCoy would be horrified to hear. Peter Capaldi made me assume that he cries crocodile tears which is a bad sign, especially since it's very easy to convince me that somebody is actually crying. Hell, I believed that DAVROS was more sincere than Peter Capaldi about wanting to be a good man. How the hell did that happen!? John Hurt would have made the Doctor and Clara's relationship feel more balanced. Plus, he would have actually pulled off the "Am I a good man?" character arc because his portrayal of the Doctor had a very important trait that Peter Capaldi lacked. Self-awareness. Not the break the forth wall kind but the kind that a man needs to convey real self-introspection. It also helped that John Hurt, despite playing the one Doctor who could get away with it, didn't unintentionally resurrect the Valeyard. Peter Capaldi's first instinct was to shove all of his problems onto Clara, then blame her when she'd had enough of his bullshit. "You can't see me" and "You let me down" were infuriatingly hypocritical due to the context of previous episodes - specifically that the Doctor ignored Clara for centuries while she saved his ass from the Great Intelligence and that he betrayed her in both Deep Breath and Kill the Moon - but Peter Capaldi never gave the faintest hint that he was aware of that. It's like he didn't familiarise himself with previous episodes, not even in his own series, and he's supposed to be a lifelong fan who knows Doctor Who inside out.
A eso Se le llama "AMoR Incondicional". Compleja y profunda manera de mostrar amor a alguien, sin importar las circunstancias y los años, que muy rara vez se ve en personas.
Best season since season five in my opinion. Its interesting that moffat always gets his doctor's first seasons spot on, then subsequent ones are mediocre and he goes too far with his ideas. Ego takes over. Anyway my favorite season for the twelfth doctor and he and Clara sort of remind me of the sixth doctor and peri (but nowhere near as extreme). Great episodes and yes some bad ones but more consistent in tone and structure than season six and seven which were all over the place.
The pallet for cinematography feels more muted in most of this series, only the woodland ones are different, due to woods. Gives a different feeling before a word is said. It is a foundation for the filter you watch the show with. Something I didn't enjoy as much as 5-7 even though the writing is comparable.
I think season 9 is a bit better then 8 as upon re watching both there were some inconsistencies that stuck out to me in a few episodes but both are super solid and I addore both of them so much.
I wish the Foretold was a decayed version of the Doctor much like the Master had a decayed incarnation or for a really heartbreaking twist have the Foretold be a corpse like incarnation of Romana.
Of all companions, Clara knows the intricacies of regeneration better than anyone. The fact that she's so thrown by this regeneration is very out of character.
My understanding is that all the Claras that have been watching over the Doctor throughout his life are different Claras that don't share memories with each other. So yes, in a sense Clara has always been with the Doctor since the beginning, but this specific Clara doesn't know all the other Doctors, she only knows that there are other Claras out there in time and space.
If I were in Clara's place, I would have bailed on Peter Capaldi. Watching him was like watching the Valeyard. Heck, if one of Clara's echoes was at Colin Baker's trial, no wonder she assumed that Peter Capaldi was Michael Jayston after stealing the Doctor's regenerations. I would have gotten the hell out of dodge as soon as possible. Peter Capaldi was a disgrace to the Doctor in his first season and his attempts to repair the damage in his second, despite being somewhat successful, were clumsy and poorly thought out. For example, he suggested the guitar and sonic sunglasses, coming across as an old man trying to prove he's "down with the kids". It stank to high heaven of a man who realised "Fuck, I ruined my childhood hero, I need to fix this!" Honestly, somebody should have reined Capaldi in because giving him so much creative control ruined the Doctor's character. And there were apparently people behind the scenes who realised this but they made the mistake of assuming that a lifelong fan knew what he was doing. Peter Capaldi should never have been cast as this incarnation. Swap him with John Hurt and we'd have a true golden era of Doctor Who.
@@_MyNameIsAJ_ The writing was great. On paper, the best character arc the Doctor has had since Christopher Ecclestone. John Hurt could have easily handled it. Peter Capaldi was just miscast and ruined what should have been a new golden age. If anything, I wish the writing was bad. I'd be much more forgiving about Peter Capaldi ruining the Doctor's core character if that were the case. So Peter Capaldi had a different reason for the Sonic Sunglasses? Then tell me what it is.
I agree with you whole heartedly--Peter Capaldi was so great because he reminded us that the doctor is an alien. I like both Matt Smith and David Tennant, but they were more horny lad than alien
It's kind of weird that the Doctor has such a negative opinion of soldiers, given his obvious affection for the Brigadier. I wish we could have seen this version of the Doctor with him to see how they reconciled the two.
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Will we ever see a Torchwood: Children of Earth/Review?
I feel like the Capaldi era has been getting looked back even more fondly as the years go by. And this makes me happy tbh, his era is such an underrated gem. I was mixed about series 8 when it first came out (I liked 12 but I felt that sometimes he was too grouchy and the severe change in tone was kind of depressing at the time) but I rewatched it not too long ago and DAMN it was way better than I remembered. On a rewatch you notice the complexities and such and I came to appreciate peter's portrayal of an angrier doctor (back then I didn't truly fall in love with 12 until The Zygon Inversion but rewatching series 8 made me fall in love in a whole new way). I loved seeing 12 and clara's complicated yet so real relationship and how it involved into a loving one. I also loved seeing a more evolved and friendlier (kind of) take on the Doctor and the Master's relationship. It really annoyed me how this evolution was ignored in the chibnall era.
You summarized my feelings pretty well. I know Capaldi got a bit of hate at the time for multiple reasons so a lot of people just kind of fell off, but his portrayal of The Doctor was one of my favorites by the end of his run and I constantly find myself looking back on his episodes.
Underrated gym?
How much of this is just the context of the Chibnall/Whitaker years? I think by the mid-tens people had gotten used to the consistent excellence of NuWho and then a marginal dip in quality was perceived as the show becoming unwatchably bad.
Oh, how little we knew back then what truly bad Doctor Who looked like.
Erm i rememebr atj the time it was originally out people loved it especially missy was very well received. But when Bill be3came the doctors companion peop,le started hating on it, and then also started applying that retroäactiovely to season 8 and 9. But the original run was very well received especially because of missy, but also peters doctor was amazing
I hope the Capaldi era is looked back on more fondly as it's by far my favourite era of New Who
Clara and Capaldi’s relationship is my favorite Doctor companion relationship. Nobody bosses The Doctor around so much or as well as Clara does 12. Love the times she has to tell him to stop being dickish because that’s not him and explains what he IS like, helping him rise to the occasion.
Si, el mio igual
Flatline is one of my favorite episodes and the one that I show people who have never seen Who
That’s my favourite aswell but always introduce people to into the dalek because rusty
mines mummy on the orient
It’s hard to top the purse-sized mini-TARDIS
@@MickRak oh I loved that fun fact the tardis minature was made by weta workshop yeah i let guess what projects they did
Flatline is bloody amazing, and yes I would agree it's a great "first taste to get you hooked" episode for being an excellent standalone adventure which doesn't rely on any continuity; and it also isn't too "weird" like some of the other sacred cow episodes, it's pretty representative of what Doctor Who is like.
Great video! This is like therapy for Capaldi fans, Series 8 doesn't get the love it deserves so this was a really refreshing watch. Series 8 has some truly excellent episodes like Flatline, Mummy on the Orient Express, Time Heist, and Into the Dalek, in fact I should rewatch the entire series as its been too long
hey Dalek Bumps!
I feel exactly the same and actually weirdly guilty I didn't enjoy/appreciate it more when it aired!
You are so right that Series 8 is very underrated. Criminally underrated, I think. That season is filled with so many great episodes, and it's a shame many people write it off. It is one of the most, if not THE most, character driven series in the show. Nice seeing appreciation for Danny and his importance in tying Clara to Earth.
Peter Capaldi ruined the season. They should have gotten John Hurt to do it. I'd kill to see John Hurt and Clara Oswald do Seasons 8 and 9 together. Watching Peter Capaldi was like watching Michael Jayston's Valeyard with the only difference being that the Valeyard was INTENTIONALLY the villain of the story.
The first thing any internalised character arc needs is self-awareness. Peter Capaldi's portrayal of the Doctor had none of it. The most vital part of the "Am I a good man?" character arc was completely absent and by trying so hard to be something he's not, Peter Capaldi ruined the best writing the Doctor has been given since Christopher Ecclestone. His performance might have worked if he was the War Doctor, the one incarnation who could actually get away with becoming the Valeyard, but it was completely wrong for a Doctor who's so far removed from the Time War.
@@tomnorton4277 amazing... every word of what you just said was wrong
@@tomnorton4277 What is bro waffling about 💀 bro wants the War Doctor doing adventures outside the Time War.
@@גוד-צ2ו No, I want Peter Capaldi to be the War Doctor because then he could get away with being a shitbag. Leave playing the real Doctor to John Hurt.
@@legobi_wan_kenobi Says the guy who unironically quoted The Last Jedi.
He's also the first doctor I've seen at least in series 8 who is ok with letting someone die if he thinks it's for the greater good,yes other doctor's in the past have done some questionable things as well but it didn't usually involve willingly sacrificing people to get a better understanding of what's happening
I love the observation that Clara is The Doctor’s anchor to humanity but Danny is Clara’s. Great thought provoking analysis.
Series 8 and 9 are easily my favorite in all of DW. And it boils down to Capaldi and Clara (obviously). Not only is Capaldi a close second for favorite doctor, and a truly fantastic actor. I love how he brought a fresh and distinct flare to the role. But I mostly adored Clara, and her relationship to the doctor. I DESPISE, the stupid Doctor x Companion romances that happen. (I did not like Amy). But Clara felt like she was hanging out with her “Cool Space Dad” and what was such an absurdly enjoyable dynamic. I loved it so.
I absolutely loved the way the trailer for “Dark Water”/”Death in Heaven” teased Clara as some sleeper enemy with “Clara Oswald has never existed…”
Unfortunately, they never followed through on this potential. I think it would’ve been a great story that 2 seasons of this companion had been entirely orchestrated by Missy, and not even as a way to conquer or kill the Doctor, but still in the same misguided attempt to show him affection.
it was an effective thing to use for the trailers, I'm glad the show didn't go in that direction but it was a fun hook for the build-up to the story. A similar example is the trailers for Doomsday, which all seemed to imply that the Daleks and Cybermen would team up (the 'Next Time' uses the line "Cybermen plus Daleks, together we could upgrade the universe!" and clever editing to make it seem like the Doctor would have to fight Daleks and Cybermen at once. A neat idea for a trailer, but one that I'm very glad they didn't go with
For me series 8 and 9 were the golden era of the show, story wise. That's when it got more deep and "less silly" but it was still fun
The golden era of the new series from 2007 to 2015
Esto me recordo un poco a la relacion de Donna y 10th.
Really underrated series. I rewatched it and series 9 recently, and that part of my rewatch marathon has solidified the Capaldi era as my all time favourite period of new Doctor Who. I've always loved most of the individual episodes, but my rewatch got me to really appreciate the arc a lot more than initially.
I love seeing Capaldi's era as people's favourite, definitely underrated
I would love the era if Peter Capaldi hadn't ruined it. His Doctor suffered from a staggering lack of self-awareness, so I didn't believe that Peter Capaldi was sincere about wanting to be a good man. His introspective moments came across as a sociopath trying to figure out the best way to manipulate people around him for self-validation, not a genuinely good man contemplating his mistakes and trying to correct them.
Even as late as Face The Raven, I expected the Doctor to throw Clara Oswald to the wolves and reveal that her death was part of an elaborate "greater good" scheme. Something about Peter Capaldi's face made me assume that he cries crocodile tears and it's not hard to convince me that somebody is actually crying. Until Heaven Sent and Hell Bent, where I finally believed that Peter Capaldi was sincere about his "duty of care", all of the chemistry in the relationship came from Clara's side. On paper, the relationship was very well balanced. In practice, Clara completely surpassed the Doctor. Clara Who is often used in a derogatory way but I think she actually saved Peter Capaldi's era. I'd kill to see her do Seasons 8 and 9 with John Hurt and have a relationship that balanced out as well as the scripts intended.
Peter Capaldi was experimenting, ignoring or forgetting context from previous episodes (it was infuriating to watch him unironically say "You can't see me" to Clara after Name of the Doctor revealed that the Doctor ignored her for centuries or yell "You let me down!" without the slightest hint of awareness that he'd done the same thing several times), struggling to find a Doctor that worked over halfway through his second season, and making foolish suggestions like the sonic sunglasses and guitar. Because of all this, he felt like the Valeyard in his first season and a fanboy cosplaying for half of his second. To quote Missy, "That man has no finesse."
Peter Capaldi wasn't a total train wreck like Jodie Whittaker but he's by far the worst male Doctor in New Who. And the most frustrating part is that he was given one of the best eras. He had the best companion, one of the best character arcs and his era even proved that gender swapping a Time Lord could work. I would be much more forgiving about Peter Capaldi's performance if the era had been bad.
@@tomnorton4277 I don't think I've ever disagreed with a comment more than this one
@@X08-Chill Not even the lack of self-awareness? Peter Capaldi perfected that to a level that would be impressive if it didn't completely contradict the character arc he was supposed to be going through. It's like he didn't bother to familiarise himself with previous episodes, not even in his own series. This guy's supposed to know Doctor Who inside out and back to front, yet he completely forgot or ignored The Name of the Doctor, the fact that David Tennant and Matt Smith met no less than 3 good or redeemed Daleks (one of whom was an incarnation of Clara, so no wonder she slapped him for just assuming all Daleks are evil in Into The Dalek), and the fact that his Doctor was FAR more consistent about letting Clara down than she was about letting him down.
@@tomnorton4277these points you mention are writing choices, nothing to with the portrayal of the character. You seem blurry on what's fiction and reality and yes, he has no self awareness. That's the point. That is what leads up to the conflict at the end of kill the moon. Claras' distress makes him realise his actions were wrong. I know posting this won't change your opinion. Your hatred seems deeply ingrained, like your on a mission to discredit the actor.
Finally! Someone who has acknowledged the relationship between Clara and the Doctor as I have been trying to do for a while now on various videos as being one of two platonic soulmates as opposed to a romantic one. I've always argued that the Doctor shouldn't get romantically involved with his/ her Companions as the backlash to 10 and Rose and Amy trying to sleep with 11 on the eve of her wedding can attest to. Clara and 12 had a deeper, more profound relationship, one where they eventually became equals of sorts. I know that sets some fans on edge since they think Clara then tries to take over the show, but that's the point, she becomes so much like the Doctor that in the end it ends up getting her killed in Face the Raven. When she loses Danny, she loses any thether to a normal life on Earth, all she knows now is her adventures with the Doctor. Series 8 demonstrates this really well with her constant lying to Danny to keep from having to confront what she believes as having to make a decision between him and the Doctor. Things might have turned out different with him if she had been more honest from the beginning, but from this point on we start to see her downfall and inevitable break up with the Doctor.
All the other points are good too. 12 not being accepted, first by Clara, and by extension the fans, because he wasn't a pretty face like 10 and 11. He's 2,000 years old! You wouldn't go out with someone who looked like you grandfather, imagine falling for someoen who looks literally like the Mummy on the Orient Express, that's old he would look really if he were human and didn't regenerate! The soldiers arc is well done, and the fact that 12 has to rediscover himself and questions whether or not he is a good man. Of course in the end he is, or at least he tries to be. The Doctor at times can be morally grey on certain things, but he's always trying to look at the big picture, what might save the most people in the future at the expense of a few poor souls in the present.
Series 8 is a good series, maybe not the best, but it's up there with other favorite ones. Now on to series 9!
Series 8 is actually one of my favorites. And the way you describe 12 and Clara's relationship is exactly how I see it. I don't like the idea of "reducing their relationship to romance" I think that would weaken their friendship. They're much bigger than romance and that's what makes them a great duo!
Love this review. Capaldi is my favorite doctor. Keep coming to his series’ defense. He is always great - even in bad episodes (looking at you Sleep No More).
Sleep No More is (ironically) a total snoozefest, but I feel it's the price we pay for experimental episodes like Midnight and Heaven Sent. Some experiments are going to be failures - it's well worth having the failures to also have the successes. At least give me Sleep No More over a "safe" but still mediocre episode.
Totally agree.
I fully believe that people were just bitter because the doctor wasn’t a “young man” anymore, and I say that because those were my thoughts. After rewatching his run, capaldi is absolutely one of my favorite doctors because you can feel the love he has
season 8 was my first proper season watching it live, and thus it will always hold a special place in my heart. i fcking love not only how incredible, high concept, engaging, and just pretty the capaldi era is, but also its challenging of the audience... most of whom failed! i know so many people who left because of 11s 'death,' and its truly unfortunate just how much *amazing* television they've missed.
Other people dont like that season? I love the scary intesity of that incarnation of the Doctor. I think its the eyebrows (j/k) and Rupert Pink was a very under-utilised character : A Doctor-skeptic=perfect!
Series 8 is one of my favorites for sure, and definitely my favorite Capaldi season. It's super underrated and I'm glad you've explored why
I loved when the writers made Capaldi's Doctor like House. Making seemingly callous decisions to win and save the majority of the people he's with. This is expressly seen in Mummy On The Orient Express and I wish this characterization continued into later seasons. To me Mummy is an enjoyable throwback to Classic Who, introducing a lot of secondary characters, sketching them out, and killing a lot of them off. I could see it as a classic 4-parter.
I'm not a fan of the hoodie/sunglasses Doctor who jams guitar (even though Capaldi actually does). It came off as a bit too "Hello fellow teenagers" and lost some style.
The sunglasses were suggested by Capaldi as a way of allowing kids to replicate the Doctor look without having to buy an overpriced merchandise Sonic Screwdriver. It's actually pretty heartwarming.
@@alexpotts6520 Yeah. Still not into the edgy teenage grandpa look. Fans like the sonics, The coats, the fezes, the scarves. I still have a full-length T. Baker scarf that I bought in the 80's when I was 13 (frikkin' heavy!) Sunglasses on a kid doesn't make them look like Doctor Who to me. Just a cute kid trying to be cool by wearing shades. Normie fare.
Wanna talk overpriced merch? How about those Harry Potter wands? They don't even light up or make sounds!
OMG Yes, Doctor House!! This is EXACTLY a perfect way to explain why I loved Capaldi in Sieres 8! I completely agree with how you feel. It annoys me that Series 8 dedicated so much to Danny Pink instead of The Doctor simply because it was the only series where I feel like Capaldi was allowed to portray him how he wanted to. (According to interviews he's done.)
@@azngf Capaldi un excelente actor, pero francamente algunos guiones la serie 8 no le ayudaron en eso.
Only at 1:04 but I love this series or season of Who. Even hated episodes like Kill The Moon with their ridiculous premises(s) imo are very enjoyable. Especially kill the moon because it’s so clear that each character also knows how ridiculous it is, and 12 saying “The moon is an egg” with that sly smile saying “fing hell this is dumb”. Then there’s tons of brilliant lines from capaldi throughout the season, every ep has just wonderfully rude 12th doctor lines. And the awesome living with otters line is one of my favourite one liners. I’d say this is the season with capaldis one liners and the next one is is the season with amazing speeches.
Thank you so much for making this video. Series 8 is my favourite series alongside Series 5 & 10, and of those three it's by far the most under-rated. Into the Dalek in particular is one of my favourite episodes, and seeing DW youtubers that I usually respect criticising it without fully understanding the point of the story (Mr TARDIS, for example) makes me sad. This video is just what I needed to affirm my faith in Capaldi, Moffat, Coleman, and Series 8 overall. Flatline is another fantastic episode, Clara is by far the best companion
lol what is up with your name???? XD
@@azngf yknow it's only when I read this comment that I realised that youtube has changed its format so @ names appear instead of the real username... it's supposed to say 'legobi-wan kenobi', but the unfortunate lack of spaces in @ names appears to have worked against me. So uncivilised...
I feel like the reaction to Capaldi (and thus to season 8) was quite severely divided down the line of "people who had only/mainly watched revival Who" and "people who started with/loved classic". To me the Peter Capaldi version was the first time that I really felt that this could be the same guy as Hartnell, Troughton, Pertwee, the Bakers or McCoy - Eccelstone was going for a very different "updated" approach and both Smith and Tennant just felt so YOUNG and energetic that I could only really see Davidson and McGann in them.
Capaldi was so much THE DOCTOR and I loved him from the start because of that.
DW, the only TV show all about change, with a bunch of 'fans' who don't want anything to change.
Thanks for a great overview of this underrated, but fantastic series!
i love capaldi, his entire tenure is a mixed bag that will hold things anybody will love, its so difficult for me to pick a favourite between series 8, 9 and 10 as they all feel a lot different yet still with capaldi's same performance. The appreciation he has gotten in general has deff upped a lot tho over the years as capaldi is your "lategame scaling" doctor as id like to call it. he's enjoyable and quickly feels like the doctor, you accept him in the role, enjoy the good, hate the bad, etc. usual doctor who stuff... then you look back when he's gone and oh my god his speeching, his acting, the detail put in makes you realise more n more with time how relatable he is and how deep he struck your heart.
I love series 8. I love how much Twelve evolved throughout his era. It seemed his brusqueness was partly a cover for his immense vulnerability. He genuinely cared so much but had to make those difficult decisions over and over again.
Oh, and Peter Capaldi is my absolute favorite Doctor.
Not sure how you manage to be so engaging and mimic how I feel about the show whilst challenging some notions that I have. Thanks Harbo and i cant wait for season 9 when it comes
Series 8 is one of my all time favourite Seasons of the whole show, the doctor's arc is fantastic and fresh, Clara is an actually good character, Missy is a brilliant master, and I don't think there is an unenjoyabe episode in the whole season. The only bad episode is forest of the night, and even then its not a boring watch. Kill the moon is criminaly underrated, Time Heist is fantastic, Robot of Sherwood is (no joke) one of the best adaptations of Robin Hood ever, Listen is one of the best episodes of whole show.
I loved the 12th doctor anyway but felt his era missed the mark. Upon a rewatch though, I completely changed my mind. His era is incredible. His character arc is brilliant. The Missy arc is really well done and Clara was actually a really great foil for the 12th doctor. His era is a far more mature era compared to the 11th doctor.
I personally think people often forget that 12 has a defence mechanism hence his arrogance and sarcasm and not liking hugs to avoid connecting to people to avoid breaking his heart like so many times before but he starts to realise he shouldn’t be living like this till he finally realises during dark water/death in heaven (am I an idiot speech). It also doesn’t help that the doctor is also trying to work out whether he should still judge himself to the promise of the name of the doctor. I’m personally someone who prefers 12s era over 10s era (10 is my least favourite doctor). Overall I feel 12 has the best character development
¿Y porque 10th no te agrada?
Capaldi is my favorite doctor bar none and I'm so glad hes getting the recognition he deserves. And Clara/Jenna is similarly massively underrated.
I think two big contributing factors were 1) fans dropping off with the loss of Matt Smith, and 2) the collective hate the fan-base had against Clara Oswald. A lot of people refused to see how she grew as a character from season 7b into season 8, and nothing she did could change their minds. Haters also seem completely unwilling to admit how deep the relationship between Clara and the Doctor is, so they effectively missed the emotional cores of season 8 and 9. If you don't believe that Clara and the Doctor deeply love each other (platonically/romantically, it doesn't matter) then you WILL MISS THE ENTIRE FUCKING POINT OF BOTH SEASONS!!!!
Hopefully, as time passes, people will begin to realize how amazing seasons 8 & 9 were, and how truely great 12 & Clara were together.
Great wrap up! This era on re-watch is quality Doctor Who. I remember when the scripts leaked early for this season, I snuck a read and even on paper these are gems before the acting and visuals bring it to life. Capaldi, Coleman and Gomez were great.
the capaldi years are such a strong deconstruction and reinvention of everything that came before it, to the point where Series 10 still feels like the freshest series to me six years, a doctor and a showrunner later. easily the most consistent run doctor who has ever had, which feels like a breakthrough after an exciting but wildly inconsistent first few years for steven moffat as showrunner. we had it so good back then.
Love love love series 8, Capaldi, and Clara!! It’s way underrated and I closely identified with Clara’s character, so it is always a little personal when people say she’s annoying, controlling, all that. She just met the doctor as an imperfect equal. Capaldi felt like a true doctor, funny and old and alien. His particular relationship with River was beautiful. The episodes were aesthetically pleasing, and Clara’s life is much more fleshed out than past characters’.
The Capaldi era was when Dr Who grew up!
Series 8 is definitely one of my faves (as is 10), I think it’s such a good stepping off point for new viewers because Capaldi has more of that Classic Who vibe with his incarnation, and it’s nice have this type of maturation :)!
Series 8 in my opinion probably one of the best new series seasons it’s so fun and action packed I see it as a strong season definitely one of Stephen Moffat’s best seasons
Mummy on the orient express is one of my favourite Capaldi stories
I would also include the (reanimated) Brigadier in the list of soldiers. I think the Doctor's salute demonstrates his new-found respect for soldiers as well as his interactions with Danny.
Thanks for another great video.
I like at 17:40 Danny Pink still wears the watch and strap he had in the Army.
I also think his surrender to the Foretold was great. Never understand why people say he hates soldiers he was one of the few people who cared about Ross Jenkins. Never understood why people hate Clara and Danny Pink.
Possibly his hatred of soldiers was his past as the War Doctor a soldier not just any soldier a officer.
Capaldi doctor is truly my favorite, i love his arc
I ABSOLUTELY LOVED THIS SERIES AND PETER CAPALDI AND JENNA COLEMAN'S INTERACTION IN THIS SERIES 8!!!GARY BAILEY KING OF DARKNESS AND GOD OF THUNDER AND LIGHTNING
14:40
I said this in the vid you made on Mummy on the Orient express, but I'll repeat it again here cause its so true to what you said.
The doctor and Clara's relationship is the dark version of a similar one I've seen in the Japanese lightnovel Toaru Majutsu no Index. They are flawed Understanders which means while they can quickly grasp what the other wants or needs at the foundation they have a single misconception that poisons their understanding. Rather than a mutual desire for the other's well being, they have an addiction of sorts to the other where even though things keep getting worse they can't step away. It was a relationship born purely out of happenstance with them meeting as allies and the doctor desiring to know who and what Clara is.
This is, amusingly a direct contrast and in some cases inversion of that LN relationship I mentioned prior involving the characters Kamijou Touma and Magic God Othinus. The two of them are true Understanders meaning there are no secrets between them and words needn't even be spoken for the other to know what the other is trying to say. They physically cannot misunderstand the other's actions or words and thus hold no misconceptions or insecurities about the other. They share a mutual desire for the other's well being and happiness acting as the other's anchor and moral compass in order to bring out the best in eachother. While they may not always agree with eachother, they will always work towards a mutual goal and will modify their plans in order to ensure the other's happiness in the end. Rather than being a relationship born our of happenstance and being allies however, ironically their bond was born out of intent as worst enemies. Forged out of a trial by fire which ended in them truly getting to know the other as who they were rather than the titles or faces they wore.
In a very interesting turn of events, The 12th doctor is very much what Touma could become like if he lost Othinus, or if you took Othinus and Touma's personalities and mashed them together. In fact the similarities between the 12th doctor and Touma are so numerous that the episodes Hell Bent and Heaven Sent are like the NT9-10 of doctor who. Right down to both of them spending billions of years reliving the same hell over and over again, (and in the novelization the architech of that hell even developing feelings for them due to forming an understanding of the one they were tormenting and desiring to see them happy. Except the veil was more an unwilling participant where Othinus until she realized the truth was actively trying to break the main character.) With the both of them going against the universe/world itself to save the one they suffered through hell for, (the doctor Violating the fixed point in time that was Clara's death. And Touma declaring war against the world to protect Othinus and give her a fair trial, which is one of the many details that shows that he doesn't have stockholm syndrome.)
And knowing Doctor who's writers have often been Anime fans and the point at which this story was released, it wouldn't be entirely surprising if there was some inspiration. However due to the obscurity of Toaru, it's unlikely the writers would admit to being inspired unless you directly asked about Toaru specifically... even then it's quite the coincidence.
I didn't like it very much at the time (I was quite young and bitter about Matt Smith leaving tbh) but upon rewatching it Season 8 is actually very strong
I love series 8 back when I was in High School, and I still love it! I will admit I felt more connected to Peter Capaldi as the 12th Doctor, and he is my second favorite Doctor in the new series. I really felt like the writing was getting better and when I first watched this series, I was like this is pure Doctor Who. When I see the 12th Doctor hating soldiers, I felt like that was the 9th Doctor in him who would hate soldiers because of the Time War. Series 8 was my last series in High School and Peter Capaldi was my Doctor in my Senior year in High School.
Woo thanks for this hard day at work but glad to have a series review to decompress!
I loved it at the time and still do. Forests of the Night is almost as bad as Fear Her but Capaldi is always fun. Danny is one of my favourite NuWho characters. Never understood why people vocally disliked him.
Because we didn’t know how bad the future and Jodie would be. If we had any idea we would have savored every second like it was our last breath or last taste of candy before having to drink septic waste.
I think the idea of a earth-bound romance is good, but felt there was zero chemistry between Danny and Clara.
even if it's the weakest link this series, it's not as bad as people say it when it released though. 12 and clara has better chemistry than 11 and clara. which is more important in the totem pole on making a series work at least.
This is arguably better than the clips they awkwardly stitched in the actual thing, this actually felt like they were talking to each other. And adding the future doctors beyond Capaldi was a master stroke, I hope we see a new version when Gatwa lands 😉
This era (Capaldi's era) feels like going back to RTD....but fresher, I don't know why but for me the eleventh Doctor era seems a little out of place, it might be because of the incarnation but things feel a little odd to me, but season eight-ten feels right, am I making sense here?
Harbo, you are my favorite Doctor Who commentator. Literally the best of youtube. Thanks fam.
Thank you Harbo.
Really, thank you. I really need to tell you this : You Helped Me.
You are a "COUNTER-SPOILER"
It is easy to point out "what's wrong" (e.g. plot holes, errors, etc.) and bring people to stop liking what they liked - "spoiling" the fun. Spoilers are not only spoiling the surprise or suspense, it is also
- spoiling the "suspension of disbelief" (showing the magician's trick, so the show is no longer magic)
- spoiling the liking of something by pointing out flaws that one didn't spot in the beginning (showing the warts so that one doesn't see the smile anymore)
So, yeah, critics can be spoilers without revealing the intrigue, just by runing someone's enjoyment (I don't care knowing the end, I care that I can feel the magic and believe the story)
It is quite harder to do the exact opposite.
And YOU manage that.
Some episodes were just... meh, for me. You pointed out all their merits, the good stuff in them, put light into characters that I disliked...
That is a rare skill.
And doing it for us... That is in your honour.
THANK. YOU.
If I were to rate capaldi’s era I’d rate series 10 as the best, then series 8, then series 9. Series 8 just has more good episodes and has a more clear over arching story thing(the Missy teasers leading to the finale) and character development. Series 10 is just good overall on all things
Series 10 is top-tier. I agree with your ranking
Series 8 was where my long time love for Doctor Who really started to die…now this had happened before, namely with Matt Smith’s first series which was just too great a change for me initially, I remember particularly with the Dalek story and Amy not knowing who the Daleks were after Earth had been invaded by them (twice!) during Amy’s life at least…it just felt like they wrote it and then remembered what happened in Series 2 and 4 and said Oh damn! And then tried to squeeze in an explanation. But ironically it was River and especially the Angel 2 parter that pulled me back in, then again River in the Pandorica story tho I didn’t initially take to her in The Library story. But here she was familiar, at least a bit, which I desperately needed because I suddenly felt like my series that I loved and brought me much comfort and happiness in life was suddenly alien and unfamiliar and left me feeling odd and alone at the characters I didn’t know, a TARDIS I no longer recognized, etc. But Ari er saved it for me; and her mystery allowed me to get used to Amy and the Doctor so by Series 6 I was once again and big ole happy FanBoy!
This never happened with Series 8, even tho the Paternoster Gang being in the opening story gave it an Ernest effort; I wish they’d been in it more, even acting as a “home base” briefly between main stories….I didn’t like Capaldo’s Doctor. At all. This felt traitorous to me as I knew Capaldi was a long time fan. Partly, and I know this will be odd, but I loved Fires,of Pompeii and had watched it many times…and the whole “why this face?” But they talked about in the meds to explain why the doctor “picked” this face…absolutely NOTHING was done with this. It’s like they knew the change would be a shock and brought in the Paternoster Gang. And that die hard fans would recall Capaldi (but hey, happened with Colin Baker…and that went okay…right?). But again the Doctor was too different. He was mean and didn’t feel like the cool wacky friend you want to run off exploring the Universe with…this guy was a prick and anyone would have left the TARDIS, or kicked out the asshole and tried to pilot it yourself. Clara turned intolerable. The whole Danny Pink double life and sudden career as a teacher just felt so…forced? And full disclosure, I’m a Yank, never have trouble with accents, but I absolutely could not understand what Capaldi said half the time! Maybe I’m getting old, I dunno. Missy was an exciting and unexpected twist, but I HATED the Cyberman bringing back the dead…especially people we loved. It felt disrespectful and nightmarish. And jumping around, I know, but Kill the Moon was the absolute stupidest, most idiotic piece of shite ever masquerading as “Science” Fiction. Seriously, I was so repulsed at how immediately stupid it was…suspension of disbelief works if you have even a basic attempt at reconciling with the real world…have the characters who are supposed to be intelligent RECOGNIZE when something wouldn’t happen in the real world and offer a bit of technobabble about it, even if it’s just to say “well that shouldn’t happen!” Or “that doesn’t make any sense!” It lets the viewer say “Okay, so they realize this is ludicrous or bizarre, we’ll get an explanation later”. That either never happened or no explanation was ever adequately offered. Moon gravitational disruptions are fine…but not that can cause a person in a moon base room to float away yet not affect the other characters in the room! They even try to reach her to pull her down? They All should have floated! The whole “turn your lights on to signal yay or nay that we’ll see on the moon!” Absolute ignorance; you can’t see lights from the moon and they already said a lot of the earth had suffered catastrophes so this “democratic” decision couldn’t been seen and most of the earth might not have had power or have passed into night that would,d even be viewable,from the moon which also revolves around the earth as well within that limited time period…there are so many things in this single episode that absolutely shat on Doctor Who’s legacy as an educational series that teaches while entertaining. Most of the stories were just awful drivel. I didn’t enjoy a Capaldi episode until the Zygon invasion one (another significant point; I always knew the titles of Doctor Who stories…until series 8. I then mainly would only remember the ones that that were particularly awful like Kill the Moon. I didn’t enjoy more episodes in a Capaldi than one I *hated* until Series 10. And tho The River Song Christmas special gets riled by apparently many fans, to me it was the ONLY Capaldi Christmas special worth watching and the ONLY Capaldi story that I watched more than once. It’s the only story that feels even tenuously related to the show I previously loved or convincingly makes the character Capaldi plays the same one that was David Tennant and Matt Smith. Even River takes forever to realize who this person is, which to me is quite telling, if on a subconscious level, that the writer (ahem, who was that again?) ;-) realized on some level how drastically different (and alienating?) this take on the Doctor was and said it by having his WiFE who knew every incarnation couldn’t even recognize who he was. I think that’s why the character seems so much more tolerable in Series 10. And Bill is a much needed breath of fresh air as Clara was one of the few companions that way overstayed her welcome. Gesus I wanted her gone! Bill and Nardole are great, as is Missy’s inclusion near the end…I so wish that could have been a TARDIS foursome for several episodes, even half a series (or more?). It was wonderful, and would have made the old mean Master’s return and fight/union/fight with Missy that we’ve come to like that much more poignant and tragic. Anyway, I know this was just Series 8 but it was so dreadful and felt so weird and unenjoyably alien to me that I had to include that I did find some redeeming qualities later. But my love for Who never fully recovered and I felt the 13th Doctor and her “fam” were even worse than the Capaldi era. That too felt a bit better in her last series but only barely; the Village of Angels or whatever it’s called being the only Jodie Whitaker episode I would watch again. Maybe Power of the Doctor for nostalgia. It it says how important familiar elements can be, even for long time viewers like myself who literally grew up on Tom Baker and similarly felt drifting away from the series with later classic Doctors. Those familiar and known friendly (not always, but you know what I mean) can sometimes be the difference between sticking with the series, and ditching it completely. Having no returning monsters or friends in Whittaker’s first season and limited even in her second I think really hurt the series. Something to keep in mind for future show runners, tho let’s hope RTD will bring back the magic to Doctor Who and stay around an very very long time to come and just keep our favorite series getting better and better!!! :-)
Si, lo de familia fue aceptanle que dijera 11th porque verdaderamente era su familia.
Francamentte la era de 13thdoctor era un desastre en relacion a como fue llevada la interaccion de doctor/companion. Se olvidaron de eso.
No disfrute como las otras la era de Jodie.
Para mi quedo en twelve y ahora sigue 14th...
I remember disliking a lot of Series 8 but having rewatched it in its entirety alongside the release of these videos, its become my favorite of the Capaldi era, heck even the Moffat era. Absolutely superb series. Even the obviously bad episodes like Kill the Moon and In the Forest of the Night are filled with exceptional acting and character work. And it has Listen, Time Heist, Mummy on the Orient Express, and Flatline. What a great season
Agreeing that a lot of people discovered Doctor Who with the New Era, and so they got used to David T. and Matt S., so they're disappointed to see a Peter Capaldi's Doctor, because he is extremely different. 4 reasons at least to explain that :
1 - He does not look like them, physically. He is much older and will not have this same charming, almost seductive relationship with the public, who will have more difficulty to identify with him.
2 - He is older and therefore it can be even more difficult for the younger audience to identify with.
3 - This Doctor is a bit of an anti-doctor, if we compare him to the two previous doctors of the New Era. Where David T. was playful, very similar to humans, sometimes angry but overall very enthusiastic and outgoing, and where Matt S. was similar but wackier, more "alien", with a lot of tenderness and humor, the Doctor of Peter C. is grumpy, more introverted, less empathetic, judgmental, and often condescending.
4 - The fact that this Doctor thinks out loud a lot reinforces his egocentric facet. He gives the impression of being even more indifferent to those around him by placing much more value on his intellect and his thoughts.
Somehow, Peter Capaldi's doctor is the Sheldon Cooper of the doctors.
Honestly, I prefer these early Capaldi Episodes. A good way to gauge my enjoyment is to track the length of the Doctor's hair. The shorter, the better lol. After years of "Hot Boyfriend from Space" Series 8 made him feel so... Alien. I will admit, I was a naughty nelly by reading the leaked scripts beforehand (I knew "Listen" was going to be amazing weeks in advance). I fell in love with this abrasive version... As he softened, I was less enthused.
I totally agree. I was not initially a fan of certain aspects of this season, but later felt they built up and came together quite well for a very satisfying story.
I do think the initial reaction was more to do with the ratings creating a narrative that the show was in decline. To me, the very best legacy of the early Nu Who era being so popular is that it allowed risks and complexity to be introduced in series 8, 9 and 10.
Big hugs ... S8 is one of my favourites.
Series 8 was the first NuWho series I'd directly watched along with following my inundation into the fandom during its week-long full series run-up leading to the premiere. So while I wouldn't necessarily call it my *top* favorite season, it'll always hold a special place in my heart. 💙🕰
Ironically, series 8 was one that I also didn't really like when I first watched it, the next series was the only one I watched in full until Whittaker started, yet rewatching it the last few weeks I enjoyed it. I dont think I knew it was the jumping off point for a lot of fans. I guess that kind of storytelling wasn't something that I got or was able to enjoy at the time, glad to see that that's changed now
thank you so much for making this!! it has driven me INSANE how much people hate on Capaldi's seasons with no appreciation. this is peak Who for me. there is no way in heck you could convince me the majority of Tennant's series writing is better than this, that's just baloney. I've watched through all those series once, and revisited specific eps, but ive watched Capaldi's run at least 3 times all the way through + tons of watches on episodes like listen and heaven sent. jeez it's great. your telling me people will hate on Danny pink while loving Mickey and Jackie??? SMH
Peter Capaldi was miscast. That's the problem. He played the Doctor as a misanthropic, manipulative sociopath and unlike Sylvester McCoy, he had none of the charm and warmth that was needed to balance it out. He should have been the War Doctor and let John Hurt handle Seasons 8 and 9.
@@tomnorton4277 He wasn't a manipulative sociopath, though. He was cynical and grouchy, that's not even close to being the same thing.
@@tomnorton4277 John Hurt was too old to play the Doctor, he couldn't have done any of the physical activity required to play the role. Not to mention the fact that his health severely declined around 2016. I'd recommend going back and watching the Capaldi era again because if you genuinely think that this Doctor was a manipulative sociopath then you've either fundamentally misunderstood the whole point of this incarnation, or you don't know what a sociopath is.
@@alexpotts6520 That's what Peter Capaldi was going for. He failed. It doesn't matter what he intended to be. The final result is that he came across as the Valeyard, then clumsily tried to stitch the Doctor back together by suggesting the guitar and sonic sunglasses. Those were his ideas not the writers, so the jarring shift between the Valeyard and the Doctor in his first and second season was his fault. The actual Valeyard, Michael Jayston, was deliberately being a machiavellian sociopath and knew exactly what his character was meant to be.
In order to prove that Peter Capaldi wasn't miscast, they should have had the Valeyard hanging out with Missy. Peter Capaldi already had 6 safety nets in Deep Breath alone but he needed all the help he could get, so having a 7th in the form of the Valeyard would have been beneficial. Not only would it explain why the Doctor was being such a shitstain but Season 8 was the perfect time for the Valeyard to manifest. The Master confirmed that he's "somewhere between your 12th and final incarnation" and since Matt Smith is the true 12th Doctor and this was the start of a new regeneration cycle, there will never be a better time for the Valeyard to show up. Steven Moffat could have explained Michael Jayston's ageing like he did for Peter Davison in Time Crash.
Peter Capaldi was a terrible choice for this Doctor. Since Michael Jayston didn't return, Capaldi should have been the War Doctor, the one Doctor who could actually get away with coming across as a villain, and let John Hurt handle this. John Hurt could play cynical and grouchy without coming across as villainous and I would kill to see him and Clara Oswald do Seasons 8 and 9 together. I only put up with Peter Capaldi for Clara's sake.
Even in Heaven Sent, I didn't give a crap about the Doctor's pain because I'd transitioned from hating Peter Capaldi's portrayal to just being indifferent to him. If John Hurt was doing it, he wouldn't have spent his entire first season ruining the Doctor and half of his second frantically trying to repair the damage. I would have actually cared about what the Doctor was going through instead of just wanting him to get on with it and rescue Clara.
@@legobi_wan_kenobi I understood the incarnation perfectly and I've researched sociopathy. This Doctor SHOULD have been amazing. His character arc is the best since Christopher Ecclestone. A Doctor questioning if he's a good man and working to improve himself is a brilliant story.
On paper.
Peter Capaldi simply botched it through sheer incompetence. He had none of the self-awareness that's required for the "Am I a good man?" character arc to work. I know exactly what he was going for but he failed. He was miscast, plain and simple.
Gonna sound ridiculous but the iPlayer thumbnails are a key part in me frequently overlooking this series
I enjoyed series 8 and the direction the writer chose to explore. Those that are giving it negative remarks/reviews are not recognising the depth and his identity being explored given that the doctor has been around so long.👍
I recognise the depth. I just felt like we were exploring the Valeyard, not the Doctor. I wasn't watching a good man question his identity, I was watching a terrible man go through a redemption arc. That clearly wasn't what the writers were going for. They intended for this Doctor to be darker but Peter Capaldi went too far and made him look outright villainous.
Every time Peter Capaldi did a good deed or said something that wasn't vile, I felt like he had a selfish or sometimes even outright sinister ulterior motive. Even "Do you think I care for you so little that betraying me would make a difference?" didn't work because although the line is great in isolation, it came after the Doctor had been treating Clara like trash for the entire season. Why on earth would she assume that he cared? Whenever he wasn't outright throwing her to the wolves in Deep Breath and Kill The Moon or manipulating her into being his "accomplice" in Mummy on the Orient Express, he was constantly throwing mean spirited insults and treating Clara like a burden. The writers intended for those jabs towards Clara to be jokes but Peter Capaldi has such a poor grasp of humour that whenever he delivered them, he sounded like he was deliberately trying to upset her. Clara was thick skinned enough to just shrug them off but that's an example of most of the chemistry in the relationship coming from her. She was doing the heavy lifting but chemistry doesn't work if it's coming from one side.
In Dark Water, Peter Capaldi unintentionally made the Doctor look like the bad guy in a scene that was intended to present Clara as being in the wrong. Not only did he deliberately prolong her pain out of a sick curiosity to "see how far you would go" but the staggering lack of self-awareness in his "You let me down!" speech was infuriating. If Capaldi had delivered it quietly, like he was as upset with himself as he was with Clara, it would have worked but instead he bellowed it in the most self-righteous way possible. He let Clara down over and over again throughout Season 8 and just expected her to be okay with it but when Clara let him down ONCE after her boyfriend died, he had the fucking audacity to throw a tantrum. And then, just to top it off, he decided to gaslight her by saying that SHE was the one who was whining after she let him vent without a single complaint! Again, Peter Capaldi could have saved that line if he said it to himself instead of to her but that would require self-awareness.
If he had anybody else who cared about him enough to stay, I got the feeling that Peter Capaldi would abandon Clara without a care in the world. Even in Face The Raven, I was half expecting him to betray her and reveal that her death was all part of the plan. That late in the story, I should have had absolutely no doubt that the Doctor cared about Clara but Peter Capaldi has such an unintentionally villainous presence that it felt like an abusive relationship. It's similar to Harley Quinn and Joker. Clara put her heart and soul into the relationship, making sacrifices for the Doctor over and over again, and he just kept taking her for granted as though he felt like he owned her. That was NOT what the writers intended but it's how Peter Capaldi played it and he didn't have enough self-awareness to realise he was doing it.
They should have had Michael Jayston hanging out with Missy. This was not only the perfect time for the Valeyard to show up but it would prove that the Doctor turning into a villain was intentional. Steven Moffat could explain why Jayston looks older with a similar explanation to the one he gave Peter Davison in Time Crash. At the end of Season 8, the Valeyard should've escaped the nethersphere and gone back to Colin Baker's era. After the Valeyard left, Peter Capaldi's sudden shift from being a total disgrace to the Doctor's name in his 1st season to a halfway decent Doctor in his 2nd would have an in universe reason to be so jarring since the physical embodiment of his evil side had only just cleared off. And on top of all that, it would be nice to see Michael Jayston again. He's a great actor but tends to go under the radar due to the controversies around Colin Baker's era.
Capaldi's era is the golden age of the modern Doctor - nobody did more than him to develop the character. If people are too lazy intellectually and want just entertainment - I pity them
It would be the golden age if John Hurt was doing it. He would have done the exact same character arc without unintentionally playing the Doctor as a misanthropic sociopath who's desperately overcompensating for his own insecurities. Even after he dropped the sociopathy and misanthropy in a frantic attempt to repair his incarnation, Peter Capaldi was still overcompensating with the sonic sunglasses and guitar, both of which HE suggested. The man had no idea how to relax and therefore conveyed none of the confidence that the Doctor needs. And no, delivering a speech is not confidence. If anything, that's more overcompensation. The only way Peter Capaldi could convey that the Doctor is the most powerful man in the universe was by being angry. Jon Pertwee, Tom Baker, Colin Baker (despite his stupid costume), Sylvester McCoy, John Hurt, Christopher Ecclestone, David Tennant and Matt Smith could all do it by simply striding into a room, or in McCoy's case walking away from a real life explosion without flinching. And half of them were from before the Doctor built up his formidable reputation in the Time War.
Peter Capaldi knew he was wrong for the role. He turned it down for the Paul McGann movie, admitted that "I wouldn't have hired me" and even at the end of his era, he confessed "It would be a mistake to say I know how to do this". If he'd brought that self-awareness to the Doctor, it would have worked but his Doctor suffered from a disgusting lack of self-awareness. Listening to him lecture Clara about shit that he'd already done himself without the slightest hint of awareness that he was being a massive hypocrite was infuriating. It made his claims of wanting to be a good man come across as insincere virtue signalling rather than a genuine desire to improve himself.
Without self-awareness, the "Am I a good man?" character arc doesn't work. Self-awareness is THE most important trait for a man who's genuinely questioning if he's a good person or not. On its own, having a hypocritical Doctor can work but if he doesn't KNOW he's a hypocrite, then he's not doing any genuine introspection. The whole point of this arc was to be introspective. Ironically, Peter Capaldi would have been a far better Doctor if he WASN'T acting, just like Tom Baker, who's technically an inferior actor but was a far better Doctor. By trying so hard to be something he's not and abandoning the most important trait required to actually sell this arc, Peter Capaldi ruined the character.
Peter Capaldi should have been the War Doctor and John Hurt should have handled the 12th. If Peter Capaldi botched the War Doctor, it would simply exemplify why later Doctor's were ashamed of him being part of their regeneration cycle, so it's a win-win regardless of whether Capaldi's performance was good or bad. John Hurt was far better suited to an introspective character arc. The only thing holding him back was his age because in terms of raw acting skill, he made Peter Capaldi look like an amateur in comparison, especially since he was under FAR more pressure to get the Doctor right. John Hurt would have brought the necessary self-awareness to sell the "Am I a good man?" character arc which is, on paper, the best arc the Doctor has had since Christopher Ecclestone.
The only problem is that John Hurt died only 4 years after Day of the Doctor. He could have squeezed in Seasons 8 and 9 - William Hartnell kept going whilst dealing with a serious illness and a vicious work schedule - but he wouldn't have been alive for Season 10, unless this alternate reality gave him a longer life. But honestly, standing with River Song at Darrillium would have been a beautiful finale for him. John Hurt was born to play the Doctor but ended up playing the wrong incarnation.
@@tomnorton4277 The very fact that you wrote a 2-page essay replying to a simple statement shows the depth of Capaldi's character :) I would argue with you on almost every point you make, but let's agree to disagree. I will only note that everything you described, that insane combination of human and alien features - that is what makes the Doctor.
@@VladimirBlagoderov A deep character is great. Ruining the Doctor is bad. The Doctor's core character had been defined as a caring, intelligent and brave man for 50 years by that point. Even Sylvester McCoy understood that so he was able to balance out his darker side.
Peter Capaldi was playing a different character without even realising it. This might as well have been a spinoff about a completely separate Time Lord who deluded himself into thinking he was the Doctor.
@@tomnorton4277 I am sorry that you feel that way. For me it's the opposite.
@@VladimirBlagoderov I love a complex character as much as the next guy. Clara Oswald's one of my favourite fictional characters, period.
However, the Doctor has an established set of character traits that every incarnation must adhere to, or else he's a different man. At his core, the Doctor is caring, intelligent and brave. Even the more sociopathic ones like Colin Baker and Sylvester McCoy managed to get that right. When McCoy treated Ace like crap, it was because he had bigger goals in mind. When Capaldi treated Clara like crap, it was simply because he was "curious to see how far you would go".
Peter Capaldi wasn't caring until his second season unless he wanted something from Clara, he presented the Doctor as being less intelligent than the writing intended several times, and he spent half of his first season running away with his tail between his legs when the going got tough. He stomped all over the Doctor's "never cruel or cowardly" principle.
Hell, even when the Doctor manned up and approached the Foretold, Peter Capaldi conveyed none of the self-assurance that's required to play the most powerful man in the universe. He waddled towards that thing like a duck. Any real Doctor after the Time War, and at least half of the Doctors before it, would stride up to that monster, not waddle towards it.
bro that ad transition was seamless
A great review of Series 8, Harbo! I'm glad to see some Doctor Who appreciation videos. For me, Series 8 is a series I have come to appreciate more once I rewatched it years after its release. At first, I didn't love the series and found it a mess. Now, while I do think it still has problems, it is filled to the brim with phenomenal ideas that are very welcome. Love the idea of The Doctor's arc! Overall, if you didn't like Series 8 on first viewing like quite a number of people I know, I'd recommend giving it a rewatch, cause from my discussions and my own experience, it definitely improves after a second viewing. Very excited about your Series 9 reviews, Harbo!
My series ranking is:
11 - in the forest of the shite
10- robot of sherwood
9 - into the darlek
8- deep breath
7 - time heist
6 - the caretaker
5- kill the moon
4 - listen
3 - mummy on the orient express
2 - dark water / death in heaven
1 - flatline
Would love to hear your defence of Kill The Moon. (Not in a "so I can laugh at it" way, in a "what am I missing about it?" way.)
@@alexpotts6520 I just loved the tension it created between 12 and Clara, Clara's acting was on point and although the sci fi concept might be a bit farfetched like it's doctor who lmao alot of there concepts r wacky lmao, admittedly I think the concept would have worked better if the moon was orbiting a different planet but it is what it is, also the visuals of the episode were top notch.
I look at the episode not for the concept it tried to execute but the character development
@@jumbojaba1235 Hmm, maybe I'll have to revisit it. All I really remember is the moon being an egg, that annoying rebel kid and an utterly confused abortion allegory. Maybe there it's more salvageable than I remember.
Glad you gave it the appreciation it deserves. Series 8 is my third favorite, right after series 1 and series 4
This video literally explains what I cannot communicate well about the season. On first watch this season was what stopped me watching the show but After my recent rewatch I love it. All the things I love too is what you are saying, just you do it way better xd
12 was always the best. He was my favorite from day one. Glad you nimrods in the comments are finally coming around.
Not sure where to categorise myself as Dr Who fan. I came in as a youngster with Sylvester McCoy as it was dying and was delighted to see it return in the modern era done with a respectable enough budget to take it beyond the sometimes charming sometimes ridiculous looking days of old.
I've dipped in and out of some of the stuff that predated my viewing, I liked Hartnell and loved Tom Baker but never took to any of the others too fondly. Doing some of them a disservice I'm sure. I did enjoy some Jon Pertwee episodes but I can't say I warmed to him. I've never seen a Colin Baker episode and no disrespect to Peter Davison but I can't help but see Tristam Farnham and I seriously disliked his cricket blazer look or whatever it is he wore.
I've rarely rewatch an episode but I always look forward to new ones but I can safely say my favourite iteration of the new era is Peter Capaldi. I really enjoyed Eccleston, Tennant and Smith but there was something just the right amount of blunt curmudgeon and charisma about Capaldi and I liked the dynamic with Clara and Bill much more than other companions who I liked well enough at the time.
Was a shame he didn't stay longer but I guess no one wants to be tied to it for too long.
25:26 - 25:40 That seems to be the standard of DW by this point whenever the show goes into a bold new direction to keep being fresh. Fans who got used to the previous style of the show are suddenly confronted with a whole new style that is often deliberately different to distinguish it from what came before. But instead of embracing this difference just like the difference of the Doctor in a new incarnation, the fans refuse to accept the new incarnation of the show (sometimes along with the new incarnation of the Doctor).
I wonder how many fans will do that with the 15th Doctor and series 14.
I will do the opposite tbh. I *want* this to be radically different from the first RTD era - since then the man has pushed out some great work like It's A Sin, Years And Years and A Very English Scandal. He's grown and I want Doctor Who to grow with him, but all the signs are looking like it will be getting-the-band-back-together nostalgia bait - capped off by the announcement that it's now being produced in partnership with Disney, the nostalgia bait masters.
@@alexpotts6520 I fully agree with you!
I enjoy this season. Mummy on the Orient Express, Flatline and Time Heist are my favorites, but I really enjoy just about every episode. One or two episodes are pretty bad, but I just ignore those episodes.
I always tune out when we get a new doctor. It's like I enter a mourning phase and need time to process a real death. I end up coming back after a year or so and thoroughly enjoy myself with the new characters including the new doctor.
Capaldi was the first doctor I identified with and while i cant definitively say he's my favorite doctor, some of my personal favorite episodes definitely come from his run.
same, that hits deep. It genuinely is like mourning someone you've come to know really well. Personally though, I didn't get that with Series 8 because I was actually ready to let the Eleventh Doctor go after Series 7 - he's one of my favourites, don't get me wrong, but he had a good run culminating in the 50th Anniversary celebrations and I was ready to accept a new and older Doctor (which sounds like a contradiction when I say it like that, but that's Doctor Who for you)
Capaldi was my first Doctor
Si el cambio es progresivo y adaptarte a eso es un proceso. Yo tampoco acepte al principio ver a Clara sustituir a los Ponds, por eso senti un sabor agridulce con 11th/Clara. Recien acepte el cambio con 12th/Clara.
Very underrated series. Its one of the best
Watching the reviews of this series have made me appreciate it more than I did when it aired. Whilst I still regard it as not the most stand out series, I have since realised over the years it is better than I remember it when it aired and realised what the stories were trying to do. But watching these videos has made me actually like it more and want to re-watch as well. Maybe its nostalgia now, maybe its just because I was 12 when it aired and remember cringing a lot at the awkward romance and humour when watching with my family or perhaps because the last 5 years of the show have made me re-evaluate what doctor who is/can be and what makes a good series. Maybe its just because its the type that's less obvious what's good about it and requires multiple re-watches to truly appreciate because it is more layered than some. Whatever it is, I can't believe its almost 10 years old and I sorely miss Capaldi in the role.
Series 8 is easily the series that I enjoyed the least overall on first viewing, but I feel like that’s largely a combination of it being the first series since series 3 that I’d watched during the original broadcast and the fact that, after getting back into the show just after the 50th anniversary, I had binged my way through the preceding episodes largely at random, causing my idea of a “good” episode to be largely based on Russell T Davies’ run rather than Steven Moffat’s
2nd fav series after the 1st. Loved it since it aired and just couldn't understand how people were switching off.
No idea. It's the best Capaldi series, one of the best Doctor Who series ever. It's so tight thematically so focused. Some of Moffatt's best and boldest work
Take out kill the moon ,so awful that episode ,it will be a great series .I happy that no 12 is now being greatly appreciated and recognised as the best actor to play the doctor .
Kill The Moon is a great episode. On paper, the Doctor pushing Clara Oswald out of her comfort zone to help her become stronger is a great idea and the moon being too small to contain a fully grown space dragon is no different from the TARDIS being too small to contain the Doctor's home. In practice, Clara fulfilled her role perfectly but Peter Capaldi acted like a man who didn't realise the blatantly obvious which was that he betrayed her trust. Hell, this is very similar to the situation he was in at the end of the Time War, yet he couldn't rub a few brain cells together and understand why Clara was upset? Smartest man in the universe, ladies and gentleman!
The thing is, this could have worked if Peter Capaldi had played it like a man who genuinely believed he was helping Clara. However, the way he delivered "That was me... respecting you" sounded like he was desperately grasping for excuses instead of genuinely believing his own words. It's an example of him being effortlessly outshone by a woman almost 3 decades younger than him. Peter Capaldi may have more experience but he barely has half as much talent.
Peter Capaldi is nowhere near the best actor to play the Doctor. John Hurt was a FAR better actor and had the resume to prove it. Patrick Troughton was also vastly more talented because I promise you (and I VERY rarely make promises) that Doctor Who wouldn't have survived past William Hartnell if Peter Capaldi was in his place. Even a whippersnapper like Matt Smith made Peter Capaldi look like an amateur in comparison because he was stepping into the massive shoes of David Tennant without a single safety net. Peter Capaldi had 6 safety nets in Deep Breath alone and he needed every single one of them. He was born to play villains, assholes and side characters and should have stuck to that because he has no idea how to play a leading hero.
0:49 You missed the opportunity to say "Why Series 8 is so GREAT"!
I'm with you Harbo. I love series 8.
I just realised the episode is only an hour old. Keep up the great work.
Sometimes i think I'm the only person in the world who loves Danny Pink.😭
I like to think of 12 and Clara's relationship as something that can't quite be defined by human standards. It expresses platonically but they have twinges of romance. In internet speak: not platonic, not romantic, but a secret thrid thing 😂
That's just like real-life relationships though, isn't it? They don't always fit neatly into the categories we try to impose on them.
I wish Clara had been doing Seasons 8 and 9 with John Hurt. Peter Capaldi played the Doctor like the Valeyard for his entire first season and was still struggling to find a portrayal that worked in his second. Clara carried Season 8 and at least half of Season 9 on her shoulders, so most of the chemistry in the relationship came from her.
I felt like the Doctor died with Matt Smith until Peter Capaldi FINALLY got him right with his anti-war speech in The Zygon Inversion, 21 episodes after he joined the show. Even after that, I half expected the Valeyard to reveal himself in Face The Raven to tell Clara that he'd planned her death in some kind of twisted "greater good" scheme that even Sylvester McCoy would be horrified to hear. Peter Capaldi made me assume that he cries crocodile tears which is a bad sign, especially since it's very easy to convince me that somebody is actually crying. Hell, I believed that DAVROS was more sincere than Peter Capaldi about wanting to be a good man. How the hell did that happen!?
John Hurt would have made the Doctor and Clara's relationship feel more balanced. Plus, he would have actually pulled off the "Am I a good man?" character arc because his portrayal of the Doctor had a very important trait that Peter Capaldi lacked. Self-awareness. Not the break the forth wall kind but the kind that a man needs to convey real self-introspection. It also helped that John Hurt, despite playing the one Doctor who could get away with it, didn't unintentionally resurrect the Valeyard.
Peter Capaldi's first instinct was to shove all of his problems onto Clara, then blame her when she'd had enough of his bullshit. "You can't see me" and "You let me down" were infuriatingly hypocritical due to the context of previous episodes - specifically that the Doctor ignored Clara for centuries while she saved his ass from the Great Intelligence and that he betrayed her in both Deep Breath and Kill the Moon - but Peter Capaldi never gave the faintest hint that he was aware of that. It's like he didn't familiarise himself with previous episodes, not even in his own series, and he's supposed to be a lifelong fan who knows Doctor Who inside out.
A eso Se le llama "AMoR Incondicional". Compleja y profunda manera de mostrar amor a alguien, sin importar las circunstancias y los años, que muy rara vez se ve en personas.
@@MeridaEdhytSanwheyLosdooh, very true
Best season since season five in my opinion. Its interesting that moffat always gets his doctor's first seasons spot on, then subsequent ones are mediocre and he goes too far with his ideas. Ego takes over. Anyway my favorite season for the twelfth doctor and he and Clara sort of remind me of the sixth doctor and peri (but nowhere near as extreme). Great episodes and yes some bad ones but more consistent in tone and structure than season six and seven which were all over the place.
I actually felt the Capaldi era got better as it went on.
The pallet for cinematography feels more muted in most of this series, only the woodland ones are different, due to woods. Gives a different feeling before a word is said. It is a foundation for the filter you watch the show with. Something I didn't enjoy as much as 5-7 even though the writing is comparable.
Another cool topic for a video would be like what would happen if a different doctor was in another doctors episode and what the outcome would be
I think season 9 is a bit better then 8 as upon re watching both there were some inconsistencies that stuck out to me in a few episodes but both are super solid and I addore both of them so much.
I wish the Foretold was a decayed version of the Doctor much like the Master had a decayed incarnation or for a really heartbreaking twist have the Foretold be a corpse like incarnation of Romana.
#12 writers was waaaaaaay.better than the producers of #13 disaster era .
not gonna lie you did the 10th doc dirty with this one 11:09
Of all companions, Clara knows the intricacies of regeneration better than anyone. The fact that she's so thrown by this regeneration is very out of character.
I think it's due to her personal bias in favor of 11
My understanding is that all the Claras that have been watching over the Doctor throughout his life are different Claras that don't share memories with each other. So yes, in a sense Clara has always been with the Doctor since the beginning, but this specific Clara doesn't know all the other Doctors, she only knows that there are other Claras out there in time and space.
If I were in Clara's place, I would have bailed on Peter Capaldi. Watching him was like watching the Valeyard. Heck, if one of Clara's echoes was at Colin Baker's trial, no wonder she assumed that Peter Capaldi was Michael Jayston after stealing the Doctor's regenerations. I would have gotten the hell out of dodge as soon as possible.
Peter Capaldi was a disgrace to the Doctor in his first season and his attempts to repair the damage in his second, despite being somewhat successful, were clumsy and poorly thought out. For example, he suggested the guitar and sonic sunglasses, coming across as an old man trying to prove he's "down with the kids". It stank to high heaven of a man who realised "Fuck, I ruined my childhood hero, I need to fix this!" Honestly, somebody should have reined Capaldi in because giving him so much creative control ruined the Doctor's character. And there were apparently people behind the scenes who realised this but they made the mistake of assuming that a lifelong fan knew what he was doing.
Peter Capaldi should never have been cast as this incarnation. Swap him with John Hurt and we'd have a true golden era of Doctor Who.
@@_MyNameIsAJ_ The writing was great. On paper, the best character arc the Doctor has had since Christopher Ecclestone. John Hurt could have easily handled it. Peter Capaldi was just miscast and ruined what should have been a new golden age. If anything, I wish the writing was bad. I'd be much more forgiving about Peter Capaldi ruining the Doctor's core character if that were the case.
So Peter Capaldi had a different reason for the Sonic Sunglasses? Then tell me what it is.
@@_MyNameIsAJ_guys a hater. Seen him on threads like this before spouting the same stuff.
Wait really? Do people not like series 8? Thats like my favourite one!
Great video man. Keep up the good work.
I agree with you whole heartedly--Peter Capaldi was so great because he reminded us that the doctor is an alien. I like both Matt Smith and David Tennant, but they were more horny lad than alien
It's kind of weird that the Doctor has such a negative opinion of soldiers, given his obvious affection for the Brigadier. I wish we could have seen this version of the Doctor with him to see how they reconciled the two.