12:06 I just want to point out how fantastic it is to get commentary like this. As a filthy casual, I learn all kinds of interesting things like this from Lowko. I love that he is able to give us glimpses into the minds of the players in a way someone with little experience like myself would never realize otherwise. Thanks as always for such excellent casting Lowko!
Incredible matches, both clearly warmed up and hopped right into flow state, that’s nuts man wow I hope raynor keeps getting better I really do. Not even done watching the series yet just had to comment that. Just wow.
@@TheOriginalLucky Problem is that North and South Korea are different countries, so you can't really say that Koreans play the game, as I'm relatively confident that N. Korea doesn't really allow its citizens to play games from other nations. And by that logic, on average the S. Koreans DO play the game differently than Koreans (as N. don't play, which moves the mean) If I missed a joke in your message, then I'm sorry for being preachy.
This was probably one of the most interesting and best match ups I have seen you post in the last little while, I loved it and I love your commentary. Keep up the great work!
@@IvanGrishaev I prefer watching TvT or TvZ actually. I haven't been playing long and I enjoy Terran, so that's probably why I love watching people like Byun and Maru play. I'll keep my eye out for more ZvZ after this. It looked quite intense. Waaayyy too fast for me to cope with personally.
@@legion8863 Exactly what I noticed in this game. There's so little space to recover from a slip up. Terran feels like it has a buffer early and mid game. A few well placed siege tanks can give you a lot of breathing room.
Broodwar ZvZ is always a knife's edge match, and often players go for one gamble or another, trying to even snipe a single drone or be ahead by one mutalisk. Maybe that is an influence for why Korean players end up playing so wildly in ZvZ? Could be totally baseless.
Out of all the matchups zvz is the one where cheese sand early aggression are most prevalent even in the other servers. Mostly because the payoff is absolutely huge. If you go fast mutalisk and the opponent doesn't scout it they're dead. If you go for a fast third and the opponent spots it you're usually dead. If you go 12 pool you can usually can kill the natural for free...
Amazing video, amazing series. ZvZ is supposed to be the most twitchy reflex-dependent matchup in SC2, but these two player prove that there is also a lot of deep strategy involved. Not bad for a “DED GAEM” that is going on 11 years and counting.
Around 14:00 it's clearly not a gamble what Solar does, he scouted the spawning pool and it was not upgrading speedling, therefore he knew it would be fast lair. He cancelled speed and scouted, saw the roach warren and knew it would not be mutas. (Mutas cost too much and area easily countered by spores and early mass roaches) Saving that 100 gas is 4 roaches which can make a huge difference, and even more if you're late. It's not a gamble, it's a catch up strategy. Lowkow completly miss read for what reason Solar did what he did. And when you play catch up... doesn't always end well.
Great vid, thanks Lowko! An idea for you: play some matches (or get some replays) on WoL maps and see how weird they are/play compared to current SC2.. Scrap Station map comes to mind.
I'm glad you said it and I have to agree, Solar is one of the most underrated zerg player. I mean yeah, he's know for the meme of having his whole army nuked by maru, but besside that, I feel like a lot of the matches he lost could have gone both ways.
No wiggly pool at 3 minutes either means speed was already finished or not even started and solar scouted quite a few drones at the nat, by that time it means not many lings, so speedling flood isn't a big concern hence the cancellation of solars own speed as he hasn't seen a 3rd so he is playing the defensive game. So he pretty much had a decent idea of what he was up against.
I think Reynor was using the overseers and a bunch of ovis to find a pathway for his big army to be unscouted. And then once he got the jump on the third base, he could spread his army for the concave. Great play if so
great games. i wonder if last game it would be strategic to just keep a few corruptors in each base as defense against the mutalisks? kind of like spore crawlers. instead of chasing mutalisks the whole time
The 6 patch gold in game 5 isn't the same as the first gold base game. The advantage is building less drones not getting more total income. So it's not as OP, solar just saved 4 larva and 200 minerals. Reynor secured like 1000 minerals/minute (idk the exact economic difference)
i wish if indians started playing this game too people here say it sucks but honestly one of the most coolest games ever plus with lowko's commentary its even better
You can tell just how utterly exhausted Raynor was, especially, in the fourth round, but he really did great in gathering his energy and focus for the last round, in spite of the outcome. And yeah, might as well call Solar a gambling addict, lmao, but his reaction time to losses is still beautiful. I just look at matches like these and get stressed, myself, just imagining how much goddamn micro-management is needed, _how do these people's brains function-_
I am a creepy kind a guy and absolutely love these ZvZs!! Is that just me or did the color of creep changed/darkened on lower ground? At first I thought there's difference between replay shades or even how the fog of war is toggled on/off but it just bothers me to no end...AITA?
What the hell was Raynor thinking going Lurkers. I'm low masters and know Lurkers get crushed by mass ravagers. Also you don't need movement speed for hydras when you are using them for base defense just attack range. A few hydras would have prevented losing bases from pukes.
With Microsoft purchasing blizzard do you think there is any chance they include a new race if they were to make a SC3 game?! Goose bumps just thinking of the possibility
Seeing the reason they cancel the idea of tagal in the first place, they probably wouldn't add another race should sc3 is developed. Cause they had to make sure they dont disturb the dynamic of the three races, and make sure none of their identity clashes. I would probably prefer some unique sub-races like what they did with coop. Like say have dominion terran or idk ued terrans. Although it might get harder to balance, but hey we can at least dream
@@lostone9700 maybe a few centuries into the future with a drastic rework of the 3 races? It would be interesting, but I would miss sooo many things about how they currently are. Playing TvZ is usually terrifying for me because of roach/ravager.
lol at the 3 min mark for a second I thought you said "the Koreans plays ZvZ different from the North Koreans...". LOL I had to rewind again. My hearing is off.
I was thinking the same thing. He decided to counter mutas with corruptors, and then leaves his mineral lines defenseless? A few spores would have saved him a lot of money in the long run, woulnd't they?
@@SkadadeLjud Then again, maybe he figured if he put up spores, Reynor would transition out of mutas, and then his corruptors would be useless. :P Or maybe he's human and just never had time/apm to throw up spores... but I was pretty much mentally yelling at him to throw up spores for half that game.
I feel like half of the game I watch of Reynor I'm amazed at his skill level and the other half of the time he's making diamond league mistakes. Makes me feel better to watch someone with 3x my apm make the same dumbass mistakes 🤣🤣
12:06 I just want to point out how fantastic it is to get commentary like this. As a filthy casual, I learn all kinds of interesting things like this from Lowko. I love that he is able to give us glimpses into the minds of the players in a way someone with little experience like myself would never realize otherwise. Thanks as always for such excellent casting Lowko!
Incredible matches, both clearly warmed up and hopped right into flow state, that’s nuts man wow I hope raynor keeps getting better I really do. Not even done watching the series yet just had to comment that. Just wow.
I'm not sure which I'm more curious about.. Reynor getting even better or the amount of sass that will inevitably get more as he gets even better haha
@@schippes24 if reynor gets better it means Serral gets better as well. Sc2 devs might come out of retirement to nerf Zerg again if they do that lol.
I only played sc2 seriously 4-5 years ago, but I still enjoy coming back to watch your casts. Truly entertaining content!!
That last game was just nuts, insane, crazy, loco in the coco, that was awef''king some.
Koreans certainly do play ZvZ better than North Koreans.
we all know N.Koreans love their nukes
@@TheOriginalLucky Problem is that North and South Korea are different countries, so you can't really say that Koreans play the game, as I'm relatively confident that N. Korea doesn't really allow its citizens to play games from other nations. And by that logic, on average the S. Koreans DO play the game differently than Koreans (as N. don't play, which moves the mean)
If I missed a joke in your message, then I'm sorry for being preachy.
@@TheOriginalLucky Were you stuck in a time chamber for 70 years?
North Koreans are still inside Korea.
This was probably one of the most interesting and best match ups I have seen you post in the last little while, I loved it and I love your commentary. Keep up the great work!
I usually find ZvZ quite boring, but this was fun to watch. As always, great cast Lowko.
C'mon, ZvZ is better than sex (c).
ZvZ Game is often so hectic, its like having a rope around ur neck while standing on a slippery ball
@@IvanGrishaev I prefer watching TvT or TvZ actually. I haven't been playing long and I enjoy Terran, so that's probably why I love watching people like Byun and Maru play.
I'll keep my eye out for more ZvZ after this. It looked quite intense. Waaayyy too fast for me to cope with personally.
@@legion8863 Exactly what I noticed in this game. There's so little space to recover from a slip up. Terran feels like it has a buffer early and mid game. A few well placed siege tanks can give you a lot of breathing room.
This was extremely fun to watch
These comments Lowko are so very informative and high-level. Congrats on your game knowledge!
Broodwar ZvZ is always a knife's edge match, and often players go for one gamble or another, trying to even snipe a single drone or be ahead by one mutalisk. Maybe that is an influence for why Korean players end up playing so wildly in ZvZ? Could be totally baseless.
Out of all the matchups zvz is the one where cheese sand early aggression are most prevalent even in the other servers. Mostly because the payoff is absolutely huge. If you go fast mutalisk and the opponent doesn't scout it they're dead. If you go for a fast third and the opponent spots it you're usually dead. If you go 12 pool you can usually can kill the natural for free...
Amazing video, amazing series. ZvZ is supposed to be the most twitchy reflex-dependent matchup in SC2, but these two player prove that there is also a lot of deep strategy involved. Not bad for a “DED GAEM” that is going on 11 years and counting.
The game is dead.........the competitors aren't.
13:59
I've never seen it say "cancelled" before, huh....
great series btw, Lowko!
Wow such a great Bo5. On the edge of my seat the whole time. Really cool to see spire v spire at the end, love that matchup.
Wow what a ZvZ... not at all how I thought it would end... damn so insane!!!
Thank you for these commentaries!! Love your videos, had a long pause and now i have SOOOOO much to watch!!! Lowko! We luv youuu ^^
Now when I lose my first overlord at 3 minutes, I can say "geez i'm playing like reynor"
Lowko! I love your casts! Awesome match up! Appreciate your opinions and perspective! Keep up the awesome work!
Around 14:00 it's clearly not a gamble what Solar does, he scouted the spawning pool and it was not upgrading speedling, therefore he knew it would be fast lair. He cancelled speed and scouted, saw the roach warren and knew it would not be mutas. (Mutas cost too much and area easily countered by spores and early mass roaches) Saving that 100 gas is 4 roaches which can make a huge difference, and even more if you're late. It's not a gamble, it's a catch up strategy. Lowkow completly miss read for what reason Solar did what he did. And when you play catch up... doesn't always end well.
Big brain
Great vid, thanks Lowko! An idea for you: play some matches (or get some replays) on WoL maps and see how weird they are/play compared to current SC2.. Scrap Station map comes to mind.
Yea the first match and the final match were DOPE!!
that last match is intense! love it!
Wow loved that “tells” commentary on third game opening. 2nd overload = standard pool. Queen Wiggle 🤯 I never knew!!!
I'm glad you said it and I have to agree, Solar is one of the most underrated zerg player. I mean yeah, he's know for the meme of having his whole army nuked by maru, but besside that, I feel like a lot of the matches he lost could have gone both ways.
Going in! oh he has more roaches... GG nice to see the pro's still have that derp moments just like the plebs
My least favorite matchup in SC2 but this was a banger! That final game was EXCELLENT! Bravo to the both of them. Well played!
I dont believe there is just one guy playing on each side, the skills are out of this world
When i see this i am totally fine to be in Silver League
Daaaamn, Solar is savage AF. Great games! Have never seen the proxy sunken trick before.
Wow, I did not expect this result. Interesting games.
why is it when lowko uploads its always at the perfect time. i just got home from school and i see that hes uploaded :D
No wiggly pool at 3 minutes either means speed was already finished or not even started and solar scouted quite a few drones at the nat, by that time it means not many lings, so speedling flood isn't a big concern hence the cancellation of solars own speed as he hasn't seen a 3rd so he is playing the defensive game. So he pretty much had a decent idea of what he was up against.
I think Reynor was using the overseers and a bunch of ovis to find a pathway for his big army to be unscouted. And then once he got the jump on the third base, he could spread his army for the concave. Great play if so
There's a Drone escaping to Zerus in 7:10 XD
wow one of the funnest matches to watch 10/10
Zerg cannon rush
Bottom text.
Those corrupters won that. Amazing series.
Little did Solar knew, Reynor had mutas on patrol command cirlcing around his bases...
ZvZ is so brutal, great cast as usual!
This is how I want to play when I get back in to SC2, Cheese with some cheese, with a bit of a lot more cheese added ;)
great games. i wonder if last game it would be strategic to just keep a few corruptors in each base as defense against the mutalisks? kind of like spore crawlers. instead of chasing mutalisks the whole time
9-44 nice sound
Lowko will now be facing Proxy Spine Crawlers in his Ladder ZvZ
Plz add the note, that this is:
Best match of the year!
...
so far :D
I'd love to hear your commentary on different games as well (GWENT for example). You are the best at it. Regards!
I really want to see the games from heromarine ( especially both bo3 vs Raynor and the bo3 against maru)
lowko your videos are awesome dude!
Love watching this and having no idea what’s happing (cus I’m new to the game)
that final game was a nail bitter
I actually love zvz early game. So action packed
As someone who doesn't play the game and just watches videos, I am so confused by what is going on at 33:05 why is he weakening his own baneling nest?
Why did reynor give Up in Game Numbers 4 that early?
I don't know if you said, but what competition was this? Was it a tournament with prize money at stake? Or just a ladder game?
Solar brought out the weirdest and funnest zvz builds. Loved it
in game 3 solar saw the pool wasnt researching speed so he had enough of a tell to know whats going on
This? Now this is good gameplay
I feel like choosing to cheese on game 1 is always more likely than going for the safe trusted macro.
But maybe that's just my personal bias
Strong fight on the End from Solar
I feel like... solar must have known you would cast this and suggest a spire didn't and would never happen and knew when so he made one
Feel like they both did it for the content 🤣
Neat, I guess that's one more tournament for Solar. Or was this a semi final?
The 6 patch gold in game 5 isn't the same as the first gold base game. The advantage is building less drones not getting more total income. So it's not as OP, solar just saved 4 larva and 200 minerals. Reynor secured like 1000 minerals/minute (idk the exact economic difference)
We need to pay more attention to ZvZ as a community, so that platinum 2-3 isn't littered with the swarm like some sort of purgatory.
3:00 in, so good lol
That was some high quality ZvZ.
What a banger! Amazing games.
First game wow.
Also these comments. Hyped for the rest
usually dont enjoy ZvZ as much as other matchup but boy this BO5 was a fkin banger. wp Solar for taking 3-2 over Reynor
i wish if indians started playing this game too people here say it sucks but honestly one of the most coolest games ever plus with lowko's commentary its even better
So hard to choose a favorite!
"Did these guys just accidentally go to diamond league?" Yes lowko they accidentally halfed their mmr lol
In the first set Solar just pulled a Bly
You can tell just how utterly exhausted Raynor was, especially, in the fourth round, but he really did great in gathering his energy and focus for the last round, in spite of the outcome. And yeah, might as well call Solar a gambling addict, lmao, but his reaction time to losses is still beautiful.
I just look at matches like these and get stressed, myself, just imagining how much goddamn micro-management is needed, _how do these people's brains function-_
watching those corrupters hurt me
i enjoyed this game very much!
Great match indeed
no, Zerg! We don't need you guys becoming bloods & crips and killing each other! Stop the violence! Lol
Watching ZvZ is painful. I think I might have some PTSD as a Zerg player from previous mirror matches.
I am a creepy kind a guy and absolutely love these ZvZs!!
Is that just me or did the color of creep changed/darkened on lower ground? At first I thought there's difference between replay shades or even how the fog of war is toggled on/off but it just bothers me to no end...AITA?
I'm not sure but I thought the color of creep is determined by the color of the ground
I was gonna flip if Solar turned some corrupters into brood lords
How does Solar have soo many second places in everything, but beats the king of ZvZ? A very fun match up even though ZvZ isn't my favorite.
That was amazing lol.
People have tried to sell me solar, I turned them down, but Raynor is an interesting character 🤔
That thumbnail had me like , what?? *click*
damn Solar is creative !! he does all the weird stuff to win and he winss :))
That poor drone, was so brave fighting this 5 meter anaconda who eats you for breakfast
What the hell was Raynor thinking going Lurkers. I'm low masters and know Lurkers get crushed by mass ravagers. Also you don't need movement speed for hydras when you are using them for base defense just attack range. A few hydras would have prevented losing bases from pukes.
wow, just wow
With Microsoft purchasing blizzard do you think there is any chance they include a new race if they were to make a SC3 game?! Goose bumps just thinking of the possibility
no.
I think sc3 would be great but probably won't happen
Seeing the reason they cancel the idea of tagal in the first place, they probably wouldn't add another race should sc3 is developed. Cause they had to make sure they dont disturb the dynamic of the three races, and make sure none of their identity clashes.
I would probably prefer some unique sub-races like what they did with coop. Like say have dominion terran or idk ued terrans. Although it might get harder to balance, but hey we can at least dream
I want 3 new races. The time for one addition is past. Full steam ahead
@@lostone9700 maybe a few centuries into the future with a drastic rework of the 3 races? It would be interesting, but I would miss sooo many things about how they currently are. Playing TvZ is usually terrifying for me because of roach/ravager.
Damn you Daniel 😄
my first ever, lol, and never again :D
What did I do?
@@danielskrivan6921 It was Buga. He got first comment minutes before I did.
3rd game seemed like Reynor was giving Solar a free win...
Well, good. I was starting to worry they'd stop international competition if Reynor/Clem/etc. just kept winning everything.
ZvZ feels like pro Florencio games
Sick games oO
don't forget to smile alright
solar prays to yogg-zergon.
lol at the 3 min mark for a second I thought you said "the Koreans plays ZvZ different from the North Koreans...". LOL I had to rewind again. My hearing is off.
Does Solar know about spore crawlers?
I was thinking the same thing. He decided to counter mutas with corruptors, and then leaves his mineral lines defenseless? A few spores would have saved him a lot of money in the long run, woulnd't they?
@@SkadadeLjud Then again, maybe he figured if he put up spores, Reynor would transition out of mutas, and then his corruptors would be useless. :P Or maybe he's human and just never had time/apm to throw up spores... but I was pretty much mentally yelling at him to throw up spores for half that game.
@@temushin Yeah that makes sense too. I'm not saying I'm better than him. Last i played, a few years ago, i was between silver and gold :D
nice
game
I feel like half of the game I watch of Reynor I'm amazed at his skill level and the other half of the time he's making diamond league mistakes. Makes me feel better to watch someone with 3x my apm make the same dumbass mistakes 🤣🤣
Marvelous :)
Solar grew a spine :-p
Australia - Playing years ago on NA servers 250 ping was normal. 100-150 ping Meh.