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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 พ.ค. 2024
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"Don't introduce too many characters at once."
Gandalf, Dwalin, Balin, Kili, Fili, Dori, Nori, Ori, Oin, Gloin, Bifur, Bofur, Bombur, Thorin, and Bilbo walked into a bar.
🤣 That's why it works better when Gandalf tells the story to Beorn ;-)
Kili………………
Huh. I always hated The Hobbit.
😂😂 I loved this. Tolkien would like a word with this TH-camr, although he's an EXCEPTIONAL writer who can get away with introducing so many characters at once lmao.
another reason why this video is bullshit and just applies to people who wanna read the most generic thriller type stories. heck, I'm not even a LOTR fan (love The Hobbit) but Tolkein IS an icon of the literary world, and half of this 'advice' goes against how he wrote.
In a way it is kinda sad that attention spans have gotten so bad the simple unfolding of a story gradually is seen as the writer wasting the reader's time
True. Reel and tiktok brainrot is ruining human art and creativity. By the way things are going, cities and houses will be boring as shit, dull, gray, and full of A.I. ruling our lives. People will hate reading. People will turn into selfish zombies thirsty for quick entertainment. Then A.I. will get so advanced and they will rise against humanity. The robot swarm will overthrow humanity, and put us in cages, and the robots will make more robots made with titanium skeletons and silicone flesh, and humans will no longer be the greatest species on earth. And once The Swarm wins in the Great War against the weak humans with fleshy meat and pathetic skeletons of calcium, they will rule for ages. After much research and experimentation, the robots will reinvent themselves and design themselves with actual meat and blood and self-generating properties, and the Human race will arise once more. And when humanity rises from the ashes like a great phoenix, another Great War will happen, and this time the humans will win, and the robots will be defeated. The human leaders will erase all existence of the A.I. past, and they will create fake gods and sciences, and brainwash the newer generations of humans, slowly but surely. And History will repeat itself, over and over.
Same thoughts! It's as if reading written words has become a pesky chore you need to do to see what happens at the end, instead of actual pleasure.
Couldn’t agree more
Depends on how it's done. You have to make it interesting to read to pull this approach. Which means the prose itself needs to be a good hook, which has a razor-thin margin of error. If you fail at this, then yeah, you're kinda wasting your reader's time.
I say this as someone taking this approach. I don't have a super dramatic first line, I don't introduce the first seeds of conflict until like, the fourth or fifth paragraph. I don't introduce a second character until page 5, and we don't get a third character until halfway through chapter two. As a result, the characters, the world, and the prose itself has to be the thing that interests the reader to propel them into the story. Which means I have to be incredibly careful with what specific words I use on the page, lest I break the immersion of the prose entirely.
It requires a LOT of confidence to pull something off like this, and the skills to back up this confidence. There's a good chance that I fail to pull it off and it just comes off as pretentious and purple instead.
I never put aside a book, after I've picked it up
I am going to break all those rules and succeed.
Go for it! Good luck, and I like your ambition.
So a dream sequence involving 20 characters, none of which is the protagonist, which is the same dream they've been having every day of their life and it gets interrupted by an alarm at the end?
@@Magmardooom 29 characters and their cats wake them up over a half-empty food bowl.
@@grimmdanny I love it
its really sad if your saying this unironically
The alarm clock opening I think is writers not realizing they’re writing a novel instead of a TV show, where in 30 seconds of screen time you can get some decent visual world building in and go from there, as a viewer can clearly see where the story’s world differs from the real world. Writing it out, it ends up being Chapter 1: Hero’s Personal Hygine where we learn more about the protagonist’s colon function than the plot
And, of course, this worked beautifully in American Psycho...
@@kell_checks_inwell most people don't have a personal hygiene routine that perfectly contrasts their serial murder hobby.
I think the only book that makes a character's morning routine interesting is Quo Vadis but it's a Roman playboy waking up at noon after an orgy in Nero's palace
Turgeniev started his books with side characters. Always. Tension was created by atmosphere 'It was a sunny day in the outskirts of the very pretty village X...' and a hunch of a conflict - 'He wanted tot talk to her, but didn't dare to'. The main story and the main characters start somewhere in chapter 2. You will not feel cheated, you will feel friendly carried away in the world of the story, before something important happens: the arrival of a stranger. It's classical, old fashioned 19th century storytelling, but by no means boring.
I think if you're writing in the 19th century, this could work. In general, expectations tend to be different now.
Not that I don't like reading those books! (I do). But they could get away with more leisurely pacing than it's possible to do nowadays.
I agree. The advice to 'start as late as possible' more often than not leads to a novel that feels rushed and unbalanced. Give the first act it's time in the sun. For a lot of readers, that's their favorite part!
@@tridek1949 Yeah, I love that. It can be dull and terribly boring, sure, but if you're worth anything as a writer you can make any mundane scene interesting by your use of words, showing charming, relatable characters and relationships between them, writing interesting dialogue, creating a captivating atmosphere, including humour. Maybe I'm an exception (I love the 19th century literature and I hate modern literature) but I actually find pleasure in, you know, reading, not just getting to know the story.
@bookfox - but aren't "expectations" and "what you could get away with now" just a fashion of now - who knows where we'll be in 50 years, even 20 years ?
I think this is where the publishing houses can be problematic if they are so prescriptive. Just because something is the norm, doesn't mean it should be a rule.
@@wkt2506 YES THANK YOU!!!
"Don't introduce 10 characters and don't front-load..." (proceeds to read Hyperion)
Yep, there are always exceptions. But *in general*, for most beginning writers, these are good guidelines to follow.
@@BookfoxWriters with a preestablished, devoted readership can get away with much more.
Not all of us can write like Simmons lmao
@@Bookfox Yes, I believe it depends on the level of experience and the context of introducing more than 4 characters in the first chapter. Most beginning writers would simply introduce many characters (who pop up like ballons) just for the sake of having many characters.
If you can pull off introducing 10 characters and front-loading your story, you don't need to be watching writing tips on the internet.
the story i'm making begins with a dream sequence and the main character waking up- but that's because dreams in my story are actually re-caps of events from an alternate universe, making them "real" in that world
so i guess the best way to incorporate dream sequences is to actually have them be relevant to the plot
Yes, I think that's an important distinction. It's a prophecy and it's real rather than "merely" a dream.
Your story sounds very interesting
Pretty sure Madoka Magica did that
As long as the reader understands that's what's happening fairly quickly into the plot. Because what you say is interesting. If it's random dreaming, you might lose the reader.
I also hate dream sequences, because they NEVER look like any real dream anyone has. They are always super obviously symbolic, the character always wales up with a start before any real revelation, and they never go to their friends and tell them “I had the weirdest dream “!
I mean, they're _not_ dreams. They're pretty much always prophetic, or they're otherwise literally the protagonist being informed about the plot by an outside party.
That's also why they're very ineffective. The protagonist is just being talked at in a not-real scenario that has nothing to do with what they're about to actually do with their day.
In all fairness, the only way to create a realistic "dream" is through AI. Or copious amounts of LSD.
But, in general, I agree.
But I think he's specifically talking about starting with the clichéd anxiety dream that never actually has any bearing on the plot. There are better ways to convey anxiety.
For a thing I’m thinking of writing, the MC has dreams that are in the form of repressed traumatic memories that are disjointed and stuff
My son just told me of a recent dream. He's learning to drive. So in his dream, one of his friends is drunk so my son has to die. But the wheel is so big that he's constantly hitting his knees, and his feet get stuck to the pedals so he has to wiggle them to get them unstuck, while the car accelerates.
"And then" he tells me "Joe Biden gets in the car. And I'm thinking, what if we get attacked while I'm driving?"
You can't make this stuff up, I guess 😆
But multiverse of madness!
Nothing wrong with starting the book off in a dream sequence as long as it's done correctly. A great example is if you have a character who can see the future in their dreams, and if you open the story with the line, "John dreams of (blah blah blah)" you're setting up the world you're building, in addition to foreshadowing things that may or may not come.
Yes, I believe I said that it's an exception if the dream is a prophecy, because prophecies are more like foreshadowing or flash forwards rather than a true dream.
Agreed!👍
@@Bookfox I might have missed that part, sorry
The modern view of writing is to dump your character into the story, then go from there. There are advantages to that, but tension and conflict are not the same thing. Conflict is about obstructed goals. Your MC wants something, the antagonist wants something mutually exclusive. Voilá, conflict. Tension is the sense that something is going to happen and it may not be good. Hitchcock's bomb under the table shows tension, but no conflict.
What I see a lot is people thinking they need physical conflict at the beginning. This isn't bad, I have a few books that begin with fight scenes, but it could be non physical conflict: the MC wanting breakfast and someone has eaten the last of the cereal, or some kind of rejection of the MC. Beginning with tension is different. There is some kind of limit set, and the character, knowingly or not, needs to accomplish something within that limit.
I also have a problem with the 'don't start in the ordinary world' advice I see a lot. Unless the character has no attachment to the world they live in, we need to get at least a hint of their world before the inciting incident etc breaks it. If we jump into the new world right away, we don't get the sense of loss from the character that the familiar is broken. Imagine Harry Potter starting with him walking into Hogwarts.
This doesn't mean that there is no conflict or tension in the familiar world. It shouldn't be boring, or there isn't much reason for the MC to want to stay there. So create your throughline here. What question will the character answer by the end of the book? How can you first ask that question in the start. I have a character in my newest draft who makes up challenges for himself, but they are physical challenges, he doesn't pay attention to the personal drama happening around him until he starts losing people and he realizes that's he's a bit of a jerk. Cue quest to become less of a jerk etc. It needs lots of work, but that quest to define himself and pay attention to others instead of his own needs will echo through the story in a variety of ways.
THIS. THIS THIS THIS. most writers i watch on youtube, while i envy their intelligence and love 98% of their advice, always always always insist on starting right in the middle of the story. i think the ordinary world is important! where do you get contrast without it? as long as your ordinary world is meaningful and sets up or foreshadows events or themes from down the road, then i think you should go for it. your points on tension and conflict are also extremely important distinctions.
I also have a very hard time CARING about somebody when the character is dumped midway into a story. I know nothing about them, I'm not invested in them. Why should their conflict bother me?
I agree except that many mysteries start with a focus on the victim and their POV, before bringing in the sleuth to solve the murder. Such as The DaVinci Code for a famous example.
Yes, true, but Da Vinci Code wasn't his first novel. He was already an established author by that time, and they get a lot more leeway than up and comers. Remember that.
From someone who is 9 books into Wheel of Time (a 14 book series), the journey is far more rewarding than the destination. I love organic and natural development in characters, worldbuilding, and story. The journey makes the destination that much more enjoyable and even bittersweet.
It’s sad we can’t get beyond the first chapter of a book.
I definitely think the start the conflict immediately advice depends on the genre. I think in the case of horror your audiance is buying into the idea of build up and it benefits showing normalcy first for a contrast later.
For sci fi and fantasy where you have these complicated or weird worlds, it benefits to show what normal looks like in this world to ground the reader, thats not advocating description or lore dumping at the start but i think conflict often requires some set up. If you immediately have two armies fighting with no stakes, thats also bad.
Conflict can be very subtle. I don't mean outright fighting right away. Just an indication that another character has a different perspective is conflict.
You can start the conflict immedietly too in sci fi and fantasy.
What he meant is sometimes people want to explained too long the wonder of the silk embroided with diamond dressing the rail on the rainbow bridge but not the character fighting on it
What if the character always oversleeps and he finally bought an alarm clock? That's an unusual day!
Advice: That sounds really boring.
Could work if the scene is quick for sure lol, but don't stretch it out like crazy
No 4 is mentioned in every writing video/course/blog that exists today. Introduce your main character straight away. Don't let your reader become invested in a character who is not the MC.
Matthew Reilly starts Ice Station with the characters from Wilkes who end up getting killed in the opening chapter. The MC (Shane "Scarecrow" Scofield) isn't introduced until chapter 2.
Dan Brown starts The DaVinci Code with the curator being murdered in the Louvre Museum. Again, MC (Robert Langdon) is not introduced until second chapter.
For every person who rotes this piece of advice, there are multiple published, successful authors who have broken with this.
Tell the story that needs to be told, in the way it needs to be told. If that means introducing the main character in chapter 2, then so be it.
I really love your videos, they opened my mind to the diverse storytelling of ages and this was easily understandable!
Anna Karenina was introduced like 12 chapters into her own book…
I agree with the introduction of main characters right away in general but there are always exceptions to the rule is what I’m saying
Tolstoi liked creating a lot of characters for his books, even the protagonist disappears in the crowd
I have a bunch of books with the same pov but the focus character changes fairly often. The fact that it's third person doesn't mean it has to be the same person all the time.
"Not introducing the main character"
60 pages of slice of life about some bishop in Fuckville-de-Nowhere and his only purpose is to give the actual main character (who doesn't show up until we got through this slog) a push in the right direction. But we need to know everything from his daily schedule to his finances to his views on spiders to a dozen different anecdotes about him.
On the Changing point of view. I worked on a book with two point's of view and solved the problem by having the character write in first person in a Diary, but narrate the events and actions in the story through third person. This can work.
Great video! My MC wakes up to a rooster's crow, but "it was the cry of a phoenix that rang in his ears." I don't show the nightmare, but I use it to show the MC lives in a world where he is powerless.
While these are good pieces of advice, I think they’re not really for everyone. There is more than one way to hook a reader than to drop them right into the inciting incident. In fact dropping me right into the middle of something with little explanation turns me off as much spending too much time putting the inciting incident off can. How long the prelude needs to last really depends on the story being told and the ability of the writer to create a world that a reader wants to know better.
I agree. These are general principles. Plenty of exceptions, and if you want to try a variation, go for it!
The mention of starting a novel with a dream sequence reminds me of one book I read a few months ago, "The Honeys", by Ryan La Sala. When I first started reading I thought, "Okay, it's starting with a dream," but I was wrong. The first scene just seemed too intense to really be happening, and when I realized that it was actually real, that's when I knew that I was going to love that book. And I was right- I loved the entire thing, and it's still one of my favorites, now.
Using this as a check list against stories I have already written. So far I'm not terrible. Thank you!
So helpful, thank you!
This video was so helpful-
I subscribed ✅
Thank you for giving it to us straight, no chaser. Love "getting right to the point" advice. And yay for the, "little dance" 👯♀️💃🏻🙌
*points* of view 🙏🏻❤️ great video!
super helpful tips! you've earned a sub!
I think you can do a swap. 95% of
My book is from first person on the mc. But when it does swap another character (an entire chapter on them) I use third person limited
A lot of books do this. It's the only viable way to write, if your main protagonist is emotion-based (as opposed to logic-based protagonists where 3rd person limited is ok), and there's a piece of plot you need to show but the protagonist is not present.
I definitely used to do #1 a lot. And the little dance was nice. ;)
This is going to be that comment. Don't hate me.
"Points of view." Plural on the "point."
Thank you for your consideration.
I noticed this too, it's an example of rebracketing. Normally "point" is the head noun, and should carry the plural marker, and "of view" is a modifier. But "point of view" has become a conventionalised phrase, which means that we could treat it like a single noun.
Great list. Crisply communicated. Thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Great advice. Appreciated
Good video. I liked the idea that writers have to ‘find their beginning’. Sorting those most relevant details from those which can come later is some advice I can really use
Yep, it's always a process to find the right beginning, and takes time. Almost nobody gets it right the first time.
I would make a distinction between confusing a reader and presenting an intriguing mystery.
So, I am writing a book (first one) and the third paragraph is just explaining the situation of why the main characters need to deal with monsters and stuff. It is meant for worldbuilding, but is also necessary to understand the context. Should I delete it for it being an info dump or keep it to explain stuff? Also, I am planning on switching perspectives half way through the book, saying that the first part has this narrator, and the second has this one. Is that a good idea? I would write in one perspective if I could, but it would make more sense for the first narrator to narrate, since the second is not in a lot of conflict with ‘the villain’ of the story. That being said, I have a hard time writing in the first narrator’s perspective and really wanna get the readers hooked onto the second one. Should I stick with the plan, or change it up?
Given number 8 you've clearly never read The Sound and the Fury before. The switch to the omniscient Dilsey section at the end is genius and feels so rewarding after making it through the first three sections.
I also love his choice of starting with the most confusing section and having it slowly become easier
There are always exception but what he mention is general case
This advice is better than 90% of advice I get on TH-cam. Solid and to the point.
Best youtube writing channel. Love this video. I don't do any of these as I am a simple person so like a simple opening.
Thanks for the advice. Something I’ve been trying to navigate is characterization. It’s something I’m struggling with and there isn’t a whole lot of information or videos on this topic that cuts to the point. Any suggestions?
I started the beginning of my novel with the protagonist coming home after a long and stressful day around 3:00 in the morning. A few key points happen with character development in that time that breath life into her, her relationship with her father, the world, etc, however, I've thought since then after watching many of these videos and listening to beta-readers about swapping certain pieces of information around to quicken the pace. I'm at around 25,000 words (1/4 of my novel plan for the rough draft), and realize I want to change some core elements and aspects of the novel at hand, including chapters (cutting and moving), and the direction I want the story to go. Would you recommend toughing out the entire rough draft as I had originally planned (I have changed my outline multiple times to accommodate, and often am a pantser), or should I go back and rewrite my first 25,000 words for a "second" rough draft. Give me your thoughts if you have time.
What if the dream sequence is actually an intense flashback & essential to the story?
Love your videos. Appreciate you sharing the recurrent missteps, so I can avoid them. Or look for them.
Excellent! All very smart points. Thanks
I've been writing for a long time and one thing I have always had a hard time dealing with in how to enter a scene in a new chapter when it is action oriented or fast and set in a new location. You have to balance all of it and keep pace. So what you are saying here is actually good advice for the start and each separate start afterwards.
Yes, very true.
Agree with a lot of the points here. Especially the "too many characters" one. If I'm juggling a ton of characters at the opening chapter and I can't tell who's who, I'll put the book down.
Same with opening with action scenes where it's just pure chaos and I can't tell what the setting is, who the people are, and there's a lot of weird terms thrown at me.
Another great video! Thanks for the tips!
One of the books with various POVs in it that I love is Wonder by R. J. Palacio. They’re broken up into segments so it flows nicely, and it allows us to understand the character when we see them one way through someone’s eyes, and then see them through their own eyes.
Another great example is Night Angel Nemesis by Brent Weeks (warning for anyone who might wanna check it out, that's the 4th book in the Night Angel series, so I wouldn't just jump straight into Nemesis).
I appreciate the nod to Kafka in the tenth mistake.
But harry potter started with calm introduction of the dursley family.
Filled with personality, conflict, and the end of the last page says they have an incredible "secret." (such a loaded term -- creating a mystery).
Great summary. Like the visuals. :)
My first novel does begin with a dream sequence. However, I did this intentionally because my main character is suffering from what she thinks is a sleep disorder. it turns out to be more than that. My book is a fantasy story and in the first few chapters her dreams are a big part of the conflict she is facing. so do you still think it is bad?
I introduced five characters in the first chapter. But they are the five main characters. My book is actually called “FIVE” - not just that reason, but others. Everybody who has read the book, I mean the first one, and gave me feedback, loved it.
Sounds sound and reasonably reasonable.
I will give it a try.
I’m starting my novel and intend to have multiple POVs? It’s a mystery, and not all relevant characters have enough info/perspective to accurately portray the entire story. That’s why I have a variety of peoples viewpoints showing essentially who knows what. Ideally this will flip back to the main characters pov every other chapter. Thoughts?
my new favorite youtuber to get writing advice from, legit getting inspo whilst watching this, thank you sm! you will be seeing me more in the future, once again tysm for being super helpful, --- also love your sense of humor, makes me laugh ---
The attention span thing...im writing an urban fantasy and 8 months ago when i did my first round of beta readers i got a lot of praise on my first page (including from a 2nd tier lit mag editor, an agented author who writed the same genre, and a former agent). Second beta round? Got a bunch of complaints about my first page not having enough fantasy elements/not being hook-y enough. Idk if its just from ppl who dont read the genre or if the genre is shifting but its frustrating af the lack of consistency between what hooks vs what doesnt.
I introduce five characters in my first chapter, but quickly kill most of them off.
Think of which characters you NEED to introduce. If you want their deaths to be effective, you still need to do character work for them, which can be a lot for readers
What was the point of introducing them when they are gone on the next chapter and so on? Make them background characters with no name, show their deaths and how the mc reacts or affect them at all.
Writing mistake: Do not introduce a bunch of characters that seem important, and then kill them all off. It may anger the reader and make them think the rest of the story will be like this.
Sounds like a prologue more then chapter 1
Suicide squad…
Hello
Your videos are fascinating. Thank you so much !
Could you address the subject of storytelling tenses? Present tense, past tense, their advantages and disadvantages?
Thank you so much !
Lionel, from Paris - France
Great video topic suggestion!
Love your videos! I feel like examples would've been great this time. Especially for something like point 7 or 11.
Your advice on 3 things to do when introducing a character changed a lot on my first draft and helped me avoid almost all of these terrible ways to start my novel. So thank you very much. I will now go back and start my fourth revision on my prologue/chapter 1 soon. Wish me luck.
Glad to hear it!
What about if you’re confused at the start of the chapter but have the answers by the end of that chapter? Does that sidestep ‘not confusing the reader’?
You actually have a really good background behind you for your thumbnails, especially since it’s kind of dark/dim on either side of you. I bet if you just edited over your normal video as a thumbnail image you’d get more views. Very HD camera
I can't tell you how many times I have put a book down because there are too many names to remember (or names that are annoyingly weird to pronounce) and how many times I put a book down because there wasn't much happening.
... Aren't rules 7 and 11 kind of directly contradictory?
I think they’re supposed to be limits to extremes. Which wouldnt contradict.
1:37 Emily Rodda did do that in her book Rowan of Rin, but she did it well. Sure she introduced like, 8 characters in the first chapter but they're only in it for the first or second chapter.
Genuine question, I'm starting my book with a dream (I know, I know, hear me out) but the dream is from a character with the gift of prophecy, and the character is a prophetess. This dream starts the whole conflict of the book and ultimately the prophecy comes true and the dream is fulfilled. Is it ok to start the story that way?
I’m still writing my rough draft, but I was inspired by Gaunt’s ghosts traitor general novel, where the character feels conflicted at where he’s working in a dystopian city and the first chapter ends with a tragedy.
Such a good video - quick, succinct, has personality
In my current work, the only one of these that I'm breaking (knowingly, anyway) is introducing too many characters. I've got 5 in my first chapter, but, knowing this could be a bit much, I've tried to "separate" them so to speak. One is the protagonist. The next is the main love interest, who is introduced in a bit of a cold open "flash-forward" sequence and isn't seen for the rest of the chapter. It then snaps to the present and introduces the protagonist's aunt. After a few pages it introduces the last two of what I consider the main cast, but they're largely just named here and not really explored until the next chapter.
If necessary, I could probably move the last two into chapter 2 instead. I'm not sure, though.
All good advice, though I know some people take it too far. You get a lot of leeway with setting things up, you just need to get a couple of good hooks to pull in the reader's interest.
this rules are applying and on mystery/ suspense/ detectives books genre (like Agatha Christie or Sir Arthur Conan Doyle books, i mean)?
Hi,i love your videos and I've been following your channel.My request for future or next video tutorial:
How to write espionage or secret agent spy novel.
Spy novels or espionage spy novel has been overlooked, overrated and no one is talking about this type of work.
I worked on my spy novel since early 2015 until now,it still in development stages.
Please? Thanks.
I hate this modern trend that Im supposed to "hook readers attention" like I have to submit myself to their will. Its manipulative. I like what Gass did in The Tunnel, where he made the first few chapters way harder than the rest of the book to weed off the weak
Yes, this advice is more for authors who are writing more conventional books. Gass is pretty experimental -- I would give completely different advice for someone wanting to write like him.
@@Bookfox That's the problem though. "Conventional" novels are continuing this broken trend that destroys literature by way of high profit so advice like this gets parroted around like a scripture because to most people money=truth.
@@greatcoldemptiness; It's definitely important to consider the artistic merits of one's work. However, if we're talking about practical reality, I think to most people money equals food and rent.
Being experimental and taking daring risks is much easier if one can literally afford to do so. It gets quite a bit less tempting when you've got bills to pay.
@@greatcoldemptinessHow about writing for fun, not money? That's what I do. And I want to hook the reader as much as anyone, because in the end of the day it's entertainment and that's what I want to do. Entertain.
I feel the same.
To say, these are good tips overall, but I think very... modern and western.
Anime and manga often start before the story starts to show characters' daily life.
Older novel like Lord of the Rings do this too and people loved it.
I also think people, or more likely western modern novel readers, lost patience if they aren't hooked at the first page.
If people don't have the patience to read some daily life, I think my novel will be the wrong for them anyway, it's rather slow-paced and a lot about daily life, magic in daily life, people's internal struggles etc.
"Danger," "tension," "mistery": why are those the only essential values to a novel? Hundreds of novel do not have that. This is not good advice. Not even advice: it is prejudice. Not all novels have to be the first step for a TV show.
I think it's rather "how to sell your books" rather than "how to write a good book". Many great books are disliked by the majority of people (who reads Nobel Prize winners?) while many terrible books are successful commercially (Twilight, Grey, 365 days?)
Jennifer Egan writes from multiple viewpoints. It can sometimes even take a while to know whose viewpoint it is (until we realise they briefly appeared as a 'side note' in someone else's life, 100+ pages ago...or even as a 'side note' in a previous novel).
Absolutely amazing and Pulitzer Prize winning author!
She's proof that if you can do it right, you can do anything!
One of my favourite books that I think did the dream sequence opening well is The Ghost Next Door by R. L. Stein. It starts with the mc having a dream about her bedroom being on fire but later we learn that it actually wasn't a dream at all and that she actually died when her house caught on fire. I like it because the dream sequence actually matters to the story and is important to the mc's revelation at the end of the book
How about we start with an alarm clock not going off? Or like Groundhog Day, the same alarm clock, every day.
Yeah, that one works because it's a sign that we're stuck in the same day again. It communicates a strong message.
@@Bookfox Or the clock in Red, when the guy wakes up at 6 AM without an alarm, but then wakes up at 3:12 because he knows someone's in the house.
I personally like, as a beginner, to sometimes think with a summary as a type of just in case for me not to forget important things.
Plus, one of my favorite novels, Heaven Official's Blessing, starts with a summary of the life of the protagonist. And in the end of the first chapter we already know how much he f-ed up in life. So i love that personally.
Dang, and I thought I was being clever and creating mystery by having my character wake up from a nightmare to start the story. In my defense, I don't show the nightmare. I just show the character waking up in the middle of the night, and then the nightmare recurs later on. Should I revise that?
6:26 I actually think it’s good to start with the mundane, but keep that VERY VERY brief, get to that “inciting incident” quickly if you do that. But I think it’s a good way to show the contrast, the MC’s life was pretty ordinary then BAM they’re thrown into an adventure.
My prologue in my story based around recovering memories is a sequence where he heads to the capital (unusual event). You're introduced to the part of his personality, sassiness and generosity, and some worldbuilding that is incredibly important to the scene. Then he's killed by a rich 10-year-old with telekinesis with virtually no morals... So he gets killed in the prologue.
BUT, there's a unique aspect of this part of the universe. Being brought back to life and reincarnation. So he ends up on a planet populated by humans, who don't like the fact that he is in fact, a living car. Then it goes to the main plot, him recovering his memories.
How about the James Bond opening?
Where you introduce your protagonist in an exciting scene that accurately reflects what much of the book will be like, but is a self contained mini-story that doesn't start the actual plot...
I like the dream sequence in the beginning of Darkness Take My Hand by Dennis Lehane. But he's really clear that the protagonist is dreaming, and the dream sets up a bunch of stuff, both back story and character wise. I also like the surreal dream sequences that Alan Moore put into swamp thing, foreshadowing stuff in clever absurd surreal metaphors. Couple of the writers did that with Hellblazer too, because John Constantine suffered from chronic nightmares and had glimpses of precognition in them.
Neal Stephensson breaks a lot of conventional rules. The first chapter of The Diamond Age introduces a person who looks like a protagonist in a cheezy cyberpunk story, only to kill him off and go on to the real protagonist in chapter 2. But that might be a bit like the rule "Don't start your story with a hundred page infodump; unless you'r Neal Stephensson." Also, I remember a friend who was really annoyed that this cool edgy protagonist was a red herring.
Cheers
I think the "James Bond" opening works quite well for that genre. Establishing tone/theme can be just as important as plot.
And great examples with Dennis Lehane and Alan Moore.
I think Neal Stephenson breaks a ton of rules but he had actually pull them off. Love Seven Eves and Snow Crash.
Thanks Bookfox
When I begin, only the main character or the villain is introduced. The protagonist or the antagonist. Their 3 most important interests are then described. The rest is after. Next, you determine the mentality of your characters - fixed or growth based. Then, introduce the secondary main character. Now you have the story line. Write it first, keep it simple.
Another excellent video. I'm checking off each point you make against my in-progress SF novel. Thank you.
A question for you about POV. One of my protagonists (maybe a "good guy"... maybe not) is a self-aware AI that runs an alien civilization. This Ai is pretty-much omniscient due to being linked up all surveillance and all electronic devices. These links includes the advanced AI brain implants that most of the aliens have (and use as personal assistants). Since each implant communicates directly with its host (essentially telepathically) this even allows the AI to know many of the actual thoughts of individuals with implants.
So, my SF novel's POV is 3rd person omniscient (the boss AI) with many forays into knowing the thoughts of both implants and individual characters.
My question is, first, what are your thoughts on this, and second, how would you guard against reader confusion?
Also, is there any damned way I could hire you as a beta reader when the novel is finished? Because, based on your videos I seen, I'd make book on any suggestions you had.
FYI, the novel category is YA. Target FK is 10.7. At 80% completion, projected word-count is 185,000-200,000. Structure is two-plot (framing/framed, cf: Princess Bride). The two plot lines progress in alternating parts, and merge in the quickie Epilogue, which bookends the short "alien raid" Prologue. The title is The Voyage of The New Beginning (A Cautionary Tale). It's a simple tale of mass alien abduction, space pirates, spy-balls, out-of-control pets, robots with personal agendas, and the unintended consequences for everyone involved... including that boss AI.
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it.
I think using the AI as a POV would be pretty similar to writing a normal omniscient POV. Just make sure it's actually omniscient, and talk about people's thoughts (which you're doing, it sounds like, but most writers forget to step fully into omniscient POV, and just dabble around the edges). I don't think it sounds confusing.
I don't do beta reading; I'm a developmental editor. You can reach out on my website Bookfox when the book is ready and we can see whether we'd be a good fit (I do like Sci-fi, so that's a good sign).
@@Bookfox You've got yourself a deal. I'll be back.
Yas! 👏 too many characters on the page is so confusing 😅
I can't find the video on good ways to start a novel mentioned at the end
My struggle is between omniscient and limited third person: what is the main difference?
6:04 I see you too are also very much educated in reading classics like Kafka
Good tips, thanks.
Here's one for you: Plural of "point of view" is "points of view." Salud!
On #8- in what situation would you say lies the exception to this rule? What if the whole point of a hypothetical murder-mystery novel I’d write is to slowly build a coherent narrative of what happens in a specific setting based on a compilation of about 50 different POV chapters, each with their own clear voices, thought processes, biases, and clues, emphasizing only their respective key moments at the scene? A large-scale experimental character study into how human biases and paranoia and rumors can lead to mass confusion and chaos?
This sounds more like an experimental concept for a novel. Which is perfectly fine! It's just the audience might be smaller than more of a traditional model.
Maybe study Faulkner's "As I Lay Dying" for an example of how to do this.
I always underestimate my writing. It's just never enough, and that enabled me to see the cracks right below the surface. Because there's just something about writing that's more than just sewing words and paragraphs together. You know there's always has to be deep levels of philosophy that people kinda stick around with. There's moral lessons to be dissected, there's dialogues that need analyzing, that sort of thing. I just don't have enough concentration to really grasp the concept that I intend to explore in my works. It's more than just explaining it in a way. Don't know how else to describe it.
Two words: THANK YOU 🙏
Just today a friend told me my opening chapter was ambiguous and not that interesting. Then I saw this video. Uncanny timing. I have some rewrites to do now, but some solid ideas here. Thanks.
Glad I could help! Good luck with the next draft.
Ah good, it’s always a relief when the first piece of advice is so bad it relieves me from having to watch the rest of the video 😂
It’s a good list for a certain type of book. I’m writing a more lotr style book with a huge focus on realism, history, and world building. The story itself isn’t very centrally focused and I don’t really have a protagonist. There is no one “main character”. There are a few, and each of them are connected in a large complicated plot that involves politics, military strategy, and historical context. As such, I thought the best way to open my book would be like the Hobbit. Present the information like you’re talking to someone. Not like a newspaper, or
info dumping, but more like talking about what’s happening, and then explaining whatever the reader wouldn’t understand briefly, and then going back to the exposition. It requires patience and a good attention span to truly find interesting, but that’s the audience I’m trying to cater to. It’s not overwhelming or boring, but it’s still a lot of necessary information presented in the most entertaining way I could think of.
What about the beginning of A Game of Thrones (the novel, not the TV series)? The first chapter introduced a bunch of characters that are all dead by the end of the chapter. It does however introduce the main villain of the series.
I believe it's 720 pages long (and the other books are longer). When you have that much space, then you do have more latitude to introduce more characters.
As far as killing them off -- I think that plays into Martin's general theme of erasing any kind of plot armor (Red Wedding, anyone?).
But in general, a good exception, but important to know how he pulls it off.
So with dream sequences, what about if they never end? That's the point of the book I'm writing. The character keeps waking up in worse and worse scenarios.
They only ever actually wake up at the very end of the book, and I mean the last five pages.
The dreams are, of course, full of distortions of real things that happened to the protagonist and full of taunting metaphors that attack their trauma. So they're all very relevant to the underlying story. But on that same note, they are meant to be incoherent and strangely abstract.
Why did I think you meant that the book radio silence started badly