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IBM ThinkPad T23 - restoration of an old flagship laptop
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ก.พ. 2018
- Review IBM ThinkPad T23 - restoration of the first generation of flagship T-models. Great retro laptop today for low cost. Cleaning and upgrading.
Donation Patreon: / panoramachannel
Music: Coyote Hearing - Heart Strings
Bought myself a T23 today from fleamarket. Collecting your collection :)
Still holds charge, very decent shape and works absolutely fine. No spots or dim or yellowish display either. What a beauty of a machine.
Nice machine, great for retro things
ahhh... so relaxing.
I have a T23, it still works and windows xp and some old lighter games are excellent on it.
Bezels are easy to replace on these business latpops.
I used to use T20/T21/T23 a lot years ago. Now my entire collection is sitting in corner gathering dust. But best feature about these old thinkpads was the scrollable desktop which allowed 1024x768 resolution to pan into 1600x1200 area. Too bad newer thinkpads don't have this feature.
This is beautiful, i wish modern thinkpad is this upgradable
Yes, most parts are just soldered on now, even the SSD (MacBook comes to mind)
I had one of these ages ago. It ran fantastic with Arch Linux.
T23 was my first computer I owned... Though, I owned it in 2012 when it was already considered old/slow. Tried to run some games, but ended up playing games from bestoldgames because I was sure they would run on my computer
Beautifully shot video
Excellent video. So relaxing.
Very cool video. I love old thinkpads.
Nice piece of retro hardware! I have an IBM Thinkpad T42, but the power jack is loose, and I lost most of the screws. So I just ordered a new DC power jack, a screw set, and a new CMOS battery. I hope I can restore it as you did with your T23.
Nice machines, the T42 are getting rare nowadays because flexing got most of them over time.
i had a t21 in the past. it was a real tank.
I drove an M-1 Abrams in the past. It was a real tank.
@@911Salvage
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I still have my girlfriend's old T40 from when she was a kid. With a 32mb Radeon 7500 it supprisingly pulls 30-40fps in classic World of Warcraft patch 1.12 (Lights hope private server). It's a pretty nostalgic experience!
One of the few T40s that have survived the flexing issue then, they are getting rare nowadays.
Great video!
This was my first thinkpad, many MANY years ago! since then I had only thinkpads, nothing else
Thanks for sharing a very great video,thumbs up!Have a great day.
Good job, it was pleasure to watch ;)
Tanks, appreciated!
Still got my T23 its such a nice laptop, had it since new and still looks mint condition, its a great laptop, i also have mint T22 as well running windows 95 which i use for playing old dos games on as it has support for Soundblaster which annoyingly the T23 doesn't have with having different sound chip to that of the T20, 21 and 22, my T23 has dual boot win98 & XP and use that for non dos retro gaming and other stuff, upgraded it with a pcmcia usb 2.0 card as well.
Yes the missing DOS sound driver on the T23 is limiting it as a retro machine. I believe running DOS games inside Win98SE should give sound?
Very nice games you can play on that beauty !!!
This is a superb video. The T23 was the first laptop I owned. I bought it secondhand on eBay, in around 2002 or 2003. I used it heavily until about 2008 when I bought a Macbook Pro.
I've still got it and it still works. Late 2017, I bought a PATA to mSATA adapter and transferred its old Ubuntu install over, making space for Windows 2000 (the only version of Windows I ever used in anger). Windows 2000 runs great (it's not networked) as does StarCraft (the reason I installed Windows!).
I also bought it an as-new keyboard to replace the one I'd worn through (it had gone a bit spongy) and a port replicator/dock for £4.99.
Unfortunately the sound died a few months later. It doesn't appear to be a driver issue, but I'm not 100% sure that it isn't.
I'd really like to get a modern version of Linux or FreeBSD running on it with an old version of Xorg. Support for hardware acceleration on the S3 chipset on the T23 was removed in Xorg 1.13. :-(
You've got me interested in putting an SXGA+ screen in mine now though. The cables do seem hard to come by though; I can't find any on sale in the UK/Europe at the moment. There's one in the US for $20, with $40 shipping! Given the hardware acceleration issue on X, I'm reluctant...
Yes the Linux thing was troublesome for me too. Most modern distros didn't even start (if they even have a 32bit version). On the upside this a a great Win95-Win7/OS2 Warp retro machine.
So far I am happy with the 768 screen, good balance for the chipset performance. I do have a T43p with the 1600x1200 display and you can see how the system is now always ready for that number of pixels.
T23 - A Legend Machine....
Best of the first gen T-series!
good simple review.
Thanks, appreciated!
I have a T22 which was the last one to have sound blaster compatibility
Yes great DOS retro machine!
Excellent video :)
Thanks man, appreciate the comment!
Thinking to buy a T20 right now :)
Explain this, MacBook users...
I have a Compaq Armada M700 from about 1 year earlier to the T23 and the Performance of the T23 outright trounces the M700 I mean my M700 cant even run Windows XP flawlessly.
I had installed MSWin7 on mine (back when W7 was new) and it ran just fine. For that matter, it seemed to run *better* than MSWinXP did on the same machine. Don't have it set up with anything at the moment, although I should probably set it up as a ReactOS test machine. Have plenty of port replicators and docking stations I could use with it (the T40-series ones would work with the T20-series, plus I have 1 or 2 "docks" that are T20-series specific).
Did you have a look if Win7 had dedicated gpu drivers or some generic ones?
forget windows. Much better to put Debian on this nice laptop.
I'm going to get a T21. It needs a display replacement.
My blog article: panoramacircle.com/2018/08/07/ibm-thinkpad-t23-restoration-of-an-old-flagship-laptop/
me encanta ese modelo igual que la x40, seria posible hace una x40 con impresión 3d pero con hardware moderno actual ?
So I took apart my T21 and cleaned it up, fixed the display, re-pasted the CPU, etc. I upgraded the 1024x768 (XGA) panel to a 1400x1050 (SXGA+) panel. I'm still waiting for a new CMOS battery, and hard drive caddy cover (so the motherboard isn't exposed and can't get damaged via ESD or shorted)
- Be prepared to buy a new screen bezel or palmrest. The plastic is so brittle they will usually break no matter what you do. I was extra careful when I took my T21's screen bezel off but it still cracked. Luckily, a replacement bezel wasn't expensive. You could also use superglue to repair it, but I would just buy a new replacement.
- You can upgrade the LCD in XGA models (1024x768) to SXGA+ (1400x1050). You will need to buy a new LCD cable, as the cables are made out of different material and have a different connector. The CCFL inverter is the same in all 14.1" models. (13.3" models can't be upgraded to 14.1" SXGA/XGA, you need a entire 14.1" LCD assembly). You do not need a T21 motherboard with the higher-end GPU option. I would also guess the same upgrade can be done to the T20, which could never be configured with the SXGA+ display option but should work in theory. If you need to repair a display in a T20 series ThinkPad, go for an SXGA+ panel if you can. They look great and give you much more space than the XGA 1024x768 panels.
-If you need to check to make sure a new display is working and need to power on the system, make sure the CCFL inverter card is plugged in the correct way and that the screw that holds the inverter card in is installed - failure to do so will result in smoke from the high voltage AC required to power the CCFL backlight. This happened to me on a T60 because the screw that holds the CCFL inverter acts as ground and without it, it will go wherever it wants to and cause smoke. I'd assume this applies to every laptop that has a CCFL inverter, since it needs to convert the low-voltage DC into high-voltage AC, which can cause smoke and stuff unlike low-voltage DC.
-Max RAM on T20-22 is 512MB PC100, while the T23 supports a max of 1GB PC133 RAM. The T20-T22 also use Coppermine PIII CPUs, the T23 uses Tualatin PIII CPUs. According to information on the ThinkPad forums. the fastest CPU you can install on the T20 is a 900MHz PIII, while on the T21 and 22 you can go up to 1.0GHz. But you will need to get a T22 fan/heatsink if you want to install a 900MHz PIII or faster in a T21. I would also suspect you would need a T21 fan to run an 800MHz PIII or greater on the T20.
-It appears that you can use a hard drive caddy from not just the 20 series, but also the 30 and 40 series use the same hard drive caddy. The actual cover is different, however. I'm going to use a hard drive caddy from a T40, it should be 100% compatible, expect for the cover, which can be removed from the caddy.
-Even though the manual says to remove the fan when you take out the entire LCD assembly, you really don't need to. I would still take it out, just to re-apply the thermal paste on the CPU.
Hope this information helps anyone taking apart a T2x ThinkPad. Gonna enjoy my Pentium 3 Windows 98/2000 dualboot gaming laptop. I will be making a TH-cam video on how I fixed it when it's done.
Very nice, is there a reason to go for a T21 over a T23 apart from DOS audio drivers?
@@panoramacircle3281 not really, the t23 has faster CPUs, RAM, and graphics than the T21. It should work fine with Windows 9x as long as you keep the RAM below 768MB. It really doesn't matter what which one you get, if you can find a T20-22 for cheap go for it.
@GenodeJumbox For some reason a different post said it only supported up to 900MHz. You will most likely need a T22 to run it though.
Amazing content
You may install OS/2 Warp 4.52, as dual boot
Thanks, would be an interesting retro OS2 warp laptop.
I'm restoring my Dad's IBM ThinkPad T-20. I put a PATA 2.5 128GB SSD in it, along with a new CD/DVD Drive, and even managed to find a mobile pentium III 1.0ghz cpu for it, instead of the 700mhz.
That would be a nice DOS/win98 vintage gaming machine bc it does support native DOS audio drivers imo.
I need 2 pieces of 512mb pc133 modules myself. The problem is the ridicilous prices asked for them.
any idea how to update bios without a battery? it won't allow me to update just with a charger cable
Brilliant video! I still run a T23 for amateur radio with Lubuntu and the lxde desktop environment.
Works like a charm. I have to replace the BIOS battery though. This is how I found your video.
I've got a question about the hard drive and the fan.
I want to replace the old harddrive with a modern hard drive. What hard drive can I use? 60-80 GB are enough for me.
I also have a fan error message that sometimes appear. What can I do? Replace it?
Thanks for the very good video.
BTW I made a short video about using the T23 for amateur radio.
Hello when it comes to drives you have 3 options, get a PATA HDD, hopefully unsued old stock or a modern PATA SSD or my recommendation: get an IDE-msata adapter and a msata SSD (check out my X40 video with an SSD).
With the fan it might be enough to change the BIOS battery for the error to disappear. Does the fan spin on when booting? If not you have to remove and clean the fan well if it doesn't spin on at the beginning.
Suggestion, don't skip over the complicated bios battery removal.
Love the content, very well produced!
One question comes to mind: How much do you get out of an SSD on such old hardware? Since all the connections are IDE based, doesn't that introduce a major bottle neck for the SSD? From what I know, IDE just supports data transfers of 133 MB/s. Which is just a fraction what SSD is capable of.
I am asking because I am curios, if this UltraBay is a more satisfying solution than the SSDs with IDE adapters (which are very expensive and hardly improve anything).
There is quite a difference if you use a heavy OS like Win7 for example. The main benefit is the much shorter access time and random read speed. You can check out my video with the X40 msata SSD here: th-cam.com/video/yx7aYawEuKI/w-d-xo.html using a cheap msata to IDE adapter.
Indeed, your sequential transfer rates would be bottlenecked by the bus, but you still see a big performance boost in day to day use compared to a spinning hard drive thanks to much better latency (ultra low seek times) and far quicker random access speeds
im getting an untested but complete t21 from ebay for 8€, i think it will work, btw i will keep it all original and max out the ram, its got the 20gb hdd, i hope it has the factory install, i plan on using it as one of my main pcs when im away from home and i need a pc, and in the future i will be getting an a31
Good luck with the 8€ bargain, very nice retro machine!
thanks, its also very capable for using it in the modern era, also will plan to buy all its gadgets to use all of its functions
I bought a fully working T21 with floppy and cd-rom and docking station and both 230V and 12V power adapters and 2 working batteries for 50€ from the first owner last week. Biggest disappointment was that he had installed a clean XP on it at some point.
what is the name of the theme song? it sounds so relaxing!
Music: Coyote Hearing - Heart Strings
This video was in my TH-cam recommended page...
Amazing what Lenovo built for IBM. Still built under a political system that invests itself into every major business in China.
The computer is probably fine quality. But here's a question...
... where do you want your firmware to take you?
The firmware is 100% IBM as this was years before the Lenovo acquisition!
djdjukic
I was there, I’m old enough to remember. Lenovo was always a contracted entity. Lenovo was always the maker of laptops for IBM, and later acquired all rights. There was never a time when the firmware came from anybody but Lenovo.
IBM never wrote Lenovo firmware... period.
The question is not ‘... what is Lenovo immune to ...’, it’s ‘... what is Lenovo sensitive to ...’
I, too, am old enough to remember, but I guess I was full of shit. I knew the two companies had something of a relationship for a while before 2005 but I wouldn't have thought this 2000 model Thinkpad had much, if any Lenovo in it. Finding hard info on this is kinda hard, though, but I've definitely found people that say what you're saying...
it uses pata for the cd rom too. so you cannot put a sata hdd into the cd drive bay.
These include a PATA to SATA adapter
@@panoramacircle3281 pata and sata use diffirent signals. you cannot adapt pata to sata. you need a converter. and converters take up space. plus the adpater was fake.
I have a question. Does the Pentium M 1.3GHz support SSE2?
Pentium-M yes but this is a Pentium III that does not support SSE2.
I finally managed to track down an IBM thinkpad T42, made a couple vids about it, funny story I found it literally next to a bin!!
Any tips for getting audio in dos? I triple booted it 98/XP/7 and can't find a solution, tempted to fork out for a OPL3LPT, but if u have an suggestions for dos audio drivers (it's got a soundmax digital audio) I wud be enormously appreciative!
TechDave
PS: I got the hotswappable dvdrw drive and the port replicator and external floppy disk drive so floppy is an option for driver install..
Mmhh there are definitely no real DOS drivers anymore for this sound device. I believe the T42 does not have Win9x drivers at all? So it could be too new for DOS gaming... The T23 has all win9x audio drivers and I believe either the 600X or T22 was the last with real DOS audio drivers.
@@panoramacircle3281 I managed to get win98 drivers working for sound, but no dice for dos. I'll try the OPL3LPT then. Thanks anyway dude x
@@panoramacircle3281 vogons.org if u ever need the T42 drivers
you can get Msata adaptors to replace hdd!!!
Yes you can and should do that
I've got one of these running Windows 7 & Antix Linux dual boot. I can't get any sound on the Windows system. Is there an audio driver available for it?
Yes you can get it from the old driver page: download.lenovo.com/lenovo/content/ddfm/T23.html
@@panoramacircle3281
There are drivers for all the older Windows OS there, but definitely not ones for Win 7 (or Vista).
What kind of polish stuff did u use?
Wet polish with water, than nivea classic cream to darken the rubber.
Where you find the Classic Dome?
I got mine from Ebay
What solution did you use to clean this, thanks!
Just plain water for the wet polish
Didn't know Ugandan knuckles do notebook restorations :O Just joking! sry :D
Like
I have one
Is it still working?
@@panoramacircle3281 yes
Why did you use too much thermal paste?
IBM and Lenovo also used a lot of paste factory default.
@@panoramacircle3281 Yes and they also generally use cheap thermal paste and you can generally improve the thermals of a laptop by putting less thermal paste and better quality than there was originally. All the laptops that I have done this to are generally more quiet because the fans don't need to ramp up as much to keep cpu cool.
ASMR
i have it but cant find the charger
All early model chargers should work (smaller round tip 16V)
You can buy replacement chargers for like $30 on amazon
@@griffin8062 cant cuz in my country its like 120
why do u sound like Arnold Schwarzenegger
because he is thinkpad t1000 model
@@meinlet5103 You mean T800.
Holy crap thats alot of thermal paste
Laptop CPUs use a lot more paste than desktop CPUs with an IHS
It would probably run Windows ME just fine.
It does, I have made a video about it as well
@@panoramacircle3281 the oldest laptop that I have in my pc collection is an old Toshiba from 1998 with a 266 mhz Pentium mmx cpu, 96 mb of ram, the original 4.1 GB harddrive, and it has Windows 98 second edition. I found on it, I could even do very limited web browsing using internet explorer 5.5 as well as do some office tasks using office 97.
@@sburton015 you can get a more modern browser for win98 that should work with majority of sites, haven't tried yet but I will soon. Also for xp there are some options available. Wouldn't use the browser for bank things or even email though
@@MF175mp I do actually remember using my Dell Precision m6400 laptop earlier this year to buy airline tickets to Querétaro, Mexico. That laptop is actually a bit newer but still probably considered old. Seems to be from early 2009 running Windows 7 profesional. At least still the latest version of Chrome works on it. For Windows 98, I heard opera being the latest browser to run on it, I think from 2010 or so.
Anyone else use these in school? Lol
I still have one that used to go to school with me so I could hangout and program with my friends during our free block during the day. Was the one you used provided by the school?