If the poor dude proctoring Übel's test named his spell "Super-Duper-Defensive-Aura" he would be still alive. But he named it "immovable Cloak" and Übel's brain went: "cLoAk?! i CaN cUt ThAt"
While funny, I do want to point out that it's not as simple as Ubel thinks she can, therefore she can. There's actually more nuance to it as already demonstrated through the many examples in the series. I recommend checking my comment above (if you use the newest comment sort). Specifically, the one that starts with "Explaining Ubel vs Burg/Sense ..."
I actually think Frieren’s statement about Fern always being underestimated by her is very complimentary. You could interpret what she says as “you have always exceeded my expectations” which is very high praise.
Yes, Frieren also said Fern will always be a little child in her heart in the ep in which Fern was sick. Part of that underestimation probably comes from that. This simple praise really shows the depth of their connections
that "i undeerestimate you" line was also about the replica acting like its original, but having no mind. so if real Frieren underestimates Fern, but having a mind allows her to understand it, the replica will act like Fern is not a threat. and lacking of mind will not allow it to understand Fern can be a threat in certain situation they trying to create. i mean, lets face it, 1x1 Fern will not survive even a minute against Frieren, she's not dangerous at all at this point. but the thing is they are 2x1, where Fern can make a difference.
While funny, I do want to point out that it's not as simple as Ubel thinks she can, therefore she can or that she's special and can ignore magical rules. There's actually more nuance to it as already demonstrated through the many examples in the series. I recommend checking my comment above (if you use the newest comment sort). Specifically, the one that starts with "Explaining Ubel vs Burg/Sense ..."
@@Diablos-pi2qy Agree. Characters in this series refer to magic as that of imagination. Ubel comes across as someone who often described as mechanically inclined. Or through experience, innate understanding, and instinct .. can WILLFULLY manipulate her surroundings to her desires. While the "This sign can't stop me because I can't read" is cute and funny, seems not accurate at all. There is a brilliance to her, if not a bit of a psychopathic brilliance.
I'd like to praise Methode, definitely one of the MVPs of this 2nd exam. Killed the Gargoyle, healed injured mage Dünste, detected the positions of the clones and stood her ground against Ferns clone until the end. She's very impressive indeed.
She also knew enough about hypnotism, mind control and other control spells to test both Frieren and Fern for both, verifying that they could not bind or control Frieren but could do so for Fern. Then she spent the entire last battle coordinating people so they could successfully gang up on and destroy clones while keeping an eye on the status of the battle with her senses. She's the definition of quiet competency. Just... Good at what she does to the point where her presence allows the rest of the group to maximize their effectiveness.
I love how proud Fern was when Frieren said that she underestimates her. Both Flamme and Frieren basically made the "hidden master" trope their entire strategy against the demons. By looking less threatening than they actually are, they get the demons to become overconfident and let their guard down and Frieren just told her she's not only on the same path, but far enough along to even make her own teacher underestimate her. Probably one of the best compliments Frieren could have given her.
A really neat detail is that if you go back to episode 18, when Sense and the other proctor are talking about the examinees, when they describe Ubel, she looks in their direction and smirks to them, and then you see Sense glaring at Ubel. At the time we had no context for such a reaction, but now we know.
@11:12 Few episodes ago you could notice the Stille coming and sitting near Sense and Genau. This tells you how proficient they are at concealing their mana to a near zero output. The same applies with their clones. Edit: corrections. Thank you @onetom2222
The fact that Ubel obviously enjoyed killing the one group of bandits, and showed visible disappointment when Kraft stopped her from being able to kill the second group, does tell us that Ubel has some extreme psychopathic traits. She enjoys killing, and even torturing living beings. And she does not feel remorse for the suffering of others. She's an interesting _character_ I guess. However, she's most certainly not a likeable _person_ in the real world.
@@RoryMitchell00 I think psychopaths tend to be pretty likeable in the real world, and Übel is no exception. They are very easy to get along with. The issue is that they are dangerous. So you only get to like them until they decide that they want to try what killing or torturing you feels like and you can't really predict if they will or won't hurt you. There's no emotional bond, or if there is it's one sided.
@@tyrewillis9841 I don't believe her when she says she is "empathizing" with her targets. From what I see, she is just able to _understand_ enough about them for her skills at intuition to reproduce their magic. That's all. She figures out what "makes them tick" and copies their behaviour, all without needing to have any empathy or concern for them.
One of the neat things with Frierens golem spell is we initially see it in episode 5 when she's explaining to Stark how she likes to collect spells, except in that flashback the golem is break dancing
Methode is definitely the ‘silent beast’ of the group. The fact that she stood her ground against Fern’s replica without taking any notable damage at all while someone as skilled as Ehre got completely annihilated back in the first test speaks for itself.
You are completely right about THIS test. It WAS meant to teach teamwork and camraderie, whereas the first test was more just a battle royale of people fighting each other. The tests kind of refelct the proctors that create them. Sense is a pacifist, she wants people to get along, she wants teamwork among the first class mages, but the earlier proctor didn't care all that much about teamwork he just wanted strength.
it seems like that at first, but theres a reason Genau's test requirement was that all team members be alive by the end of test. and we'll see why in season 2
@@LotharPOGenau also cares about teamwork, but differently from Sense. Sense is the "Work together and the solution would be clear and simple" teamwork kind but Genau is the "Screw everyone else you and your specific team are the only thing that matters. Play dirty if you must just stay alive" teamwork kind. And yeah that mentality of his definitely got explored later on.
Also it was a mix of luck-based and a 1st class mage "making" their own luck. In hindsight, it encouraged and tested small-group tactics, as well as patience, and information gathering. It's like a scenario where you are deep in enemy territory with a small group. Like capturing and escaping with a high-priority target. Any group moving on the northern platueu needs a first class mage not just for power, but also subtlety, wits, and adaptability for any sort of situation that might crop up.
A cool detail that lot of people miss is the Frieren clones Zoltraak. When Frieren, Fern and most other mages use it, it’s a white beam. This is because it’s been modified to kill demons specifically, like Lugner said during his battle with Fern. But when Qual made it, it was to kill humans. Quals Zoltraak was black. The Frieren clone used a super Zoltraak that was black to kill Frieren at the end of the fight. I love this little attention to detail. It’s never explained or anything. Just happens.
My headcanon: Somewhere in that 50 years after Frieren left her party to wander, she spent some time in the lab on Zoltraak research. Maybe she starts with "original recipe" Z and pushes its destructive power as far as she reasonably can (the version we saw in the episode) before tuning it to be quick and mana-efficient [also super-lethal to demons, in the Frieren/Fern version, at least] "basic offensive magic".
@@ArrtificeALL mages of humanity gathered together to research zoltraak until it became ordinary offensive magic. Frieren was a part of it and she was described as a great contributor, but she didn't do it alone
Frieren said to Flamme when teaching her the flower spell - This isn't like you. Now, Fern saying this to Frieren. Student to teacher. The writer likes drawing symmetric parallels a lot.
Oh my God! I know that this author do a lot of these symmetric storytelling, and I love it for it, but this one flew right over my head until now! Great find, thanks!
@@totenkreuz6763 she did say that when Flamme told her that the flower spell was her favourite one, Frieren says that because all she learned from Flamme was magic for vengeance, magic as a weapon and that's why Frieren stops loving magic so much...
Explaining Ubel vs Burg/Sense; I think that Ubel does actually understand Burg's and Sense's enchantments (not in a logical way, but in a more intuitive way) because she wouldn't be able to cut through them otherwise. It's not that she's special and can just straight up ignore other magics. It's exactly because she understands them, that she can construct images of cutting them and combine it with Reelseiden (which allows her to cut anything she understands) to cut through those other magics. Unlike what many including Land seem to think, she's actually a decently smart and capable mage that is more "street-smart" rather than "book-smart". ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- However, she cannot cut defensive magic, because there are two main hurdles; (1) The defensive magic itself is probably a superior spell to Reelseiden. As Qual says; Ep3 (Crunchyroll Subs): "It attunes itself to the offensive magic and disperses its power." (Best TL imo) Ch5 (VIZ Official TL): "It works by aligning itself with the offensive magic and dispersing the power." Ch5 (Kirei Cake Fan TL): "It's designed to align with the offense magic and disperse its might." (2) Ubel would have to visualize weaknesses in defensive magic (if they actually exist since she cannot just make them exist) to be able to cut it. However even assuming that such weaknesses exist, visualizing/understanding them would in turn weaken her own defensive magic, since she now knows about its weaknesses, and so can no longer trust it as a proper defense.
Big props to you two for making me realize that Fern not even registering Clone Frieren's attack as a spell might have something to do with the bit from the first test where Denken said that even the most powerful mage can't hide their mana in the moment that they cast a spell.
@@pierluigidipietro8097There's no demon magic that work like Frieren's spell at the end. People just like to spread this theory because curses are also not perceived as magic, but to be classified as a curse your spell needs to either PETRIFY the target or put the target to sleep, and Frieren's spell clearly didn't do any of that
@@pierluigidipietro8097 they are. It has been stated TWICE. And think about ALL the instances where curses were used, they either petrified the target or put the target to sleep. Macht's Diagoldze petrify the target turning them into gold, Grausam's illusion curse magic puts the targets to sleep... Show me one instance where a curse has been used and it did something other than petrify or put people to sleep.
@@boboyo3140 that's not true. And you're entering spoilers right now. It's also not a curse because it's too "direct". What probably happens is that Frieren isn't using any spells, she's using pure mana. Fern statement is the following: "I'm not sensing any mana. I don't RECOGNIZE THIS AS A SPELL." There's also no indication of Frieren ever having learned curses, because if she had, she'd also have been able to work towards countering them, the same way she was able to deconstruct Zoltraak.
OMG, this intro just makes it clear that your on-screen chemistry (not alluding to any romantic chemistry btw) is top tier, and I'm gonna miss you guys doing your reactions together. I'm sure the decision is thought-out, and I respect it, but that doesn't mean I'm not gonna be sad. :(
We always see Frieren cast magic with her staff, but in episode 8 - the fight with Draht, she didn't use her staff too. I think many people missed that (including me).
The golems are actually such Gs, man. The definition of 'coming in clutch'. Just the bottle breaks and BOOM - right into action. I imagine them popping out and just being like 'Let's fucking gooooo' as they carry their user like a football out of the dungeon.
oh my goodness wow !! thank you so much :’) it’s comments like these that really make mine and john’s day ! p.s. you may wanna keep an eye out for a new vid tomorrow!
One point I missed on my first view of the episode is the last person carried out by a golem is the arrogant mage that declared he'd clear the dungeon by himself. He didn't get down far enough to meet the other mages and hit the rule that the golem will bring them out at dawn.
I'm gonna be in the corner grating my teeth knowing I have to wait 2 weeks to get the full 27 + 28 reactions. I look forward to your fun analysis, and can't wait to see you both back for season 2. YOU HAVE TO PLAN TO REACT TOGETHER, I can't lose this synergy!
oh my gosh that means so much to both john and i, so thank you so much :’) !! p.s. a little stille told me that episode 27 will be uploaded tomorrow :)
I was expecting for you guys watch this episode for so much time 😭😭😭 This episode is soooo good! I can't even describe it! Fern is so strong and Frieren is so awesome and both of them are so cool, each one in their own way! And the redemption of Ubel???? Omg! I was afraid of her and suddenly I was in love 💜 It's almost in the end of the season and I'm very excited for the two next episodes with you guys
26:36 maybe somebody pointed it out already, but you can see the ashes rising up to the left, under Methode - meaning she successfully subdued Fern's clone, after whatever horrific battle they've had (judging by the destruction around her)
_After_ the Spiegel got destroyed tho...which means she could not kill Fern's clone, at least not before the Spiegel got destroyed (which meant all clones got destroyed) ... and she looked struggling.
@@johnnykotletti4614 Maybe, but also maybe not. Perhaps Methode realized that the clones respawn sometime after being killed, and decided against killing Fern's clone to prevent it from respawning (since Fern is a threat at sniping mages). This is actually likely, given that Methode has a great mana detection, and so would've detected the new clones.
@@Diablos-pi2qy Yeah, I definitely think Methode opted to just bind the Fern replica rather than destroying it. They made a point to mention that she tested binding magic on real Fern beforehand, to make sure it would work on the replica.
I love how in episode 18 when the first exam starts and the proctors are watching the the contenders, Sense gets really nervous when they talk about Ubel. She must be terrified of her.
Something neat about the zoltraak that Frieren's clone casts is that while Frieren usually uses the white zoltraak that seems to signify its tweaks to make it effective for killing demons, the clone uses the black version that Qual used to kill humans.
I have to admit that I have been following your progress since episode 2 when I found your reactions. I was waiting patiently until you got to this episode! Clone Frieren using no staff and just pure visualisation to pin Fern was so awesome.
I don't think it's pure visualization. It's actually still magic. Notice how there is a magic circle under clone-Frieren's feet. A magic circle different from Zoltraak or any others we've seen. It's just magic that Fern can't understand. It's akin to how some demonic/monster magic can't be detected by humanity and is categorized as curses.
@@Diablos-pi2qyI agree is akin to curses and is still categorize by magic, but 100% has something to do with higher level of visualization because what is magic other than the power to visualize, I think most people get into the idea that the magic in this series is like every other typical medieval magic, but is explain perfectly that magic in this world simply does not work without a perfect visualization of the action and change you want to produce in the real world from your visualization. So for me is more like the correct explanation of curses is the ability for produce changes in the world without the need of mana and just the simple use of visualization.
@@Daiivys I disagree with the notion that visualization alone allows anything. There have been more than a few examples showing that this is indeed not the case: (1) Basic Offensive Magic cannot pierce dragon scales or Basic Defensive Magic, regardless of the attacker's visualization. OTHERWISE, Frieren would've taught Fern how to do it when she asked Fern to attack the Solar Dragon in S01E05 in the former case, and Basic Defensive Magic would actually be useless in the latter case. (2) Frieren's spell to clean a bronze statue was NOT usable for a stone statue. If it was purely a visualization based system, then there is absolutely no reason for why Frieren wouldn't be able to use the folk spell in S01E16 to clean Kraft's & Unknown-Priest's statues. (3) Regardless of Aura's visualization, her scales were already tilting towards Frieren, even though Aura was unaware that Frieren had more mana at that point. If it was a purely visualization based system, then Aura would've been able to dominate/control anyone including Frieren. Just to name some of the most important ones. I have a fairly good post on "rFrieren" titled "Important Lore that a lot of people get wrong" for more info.
@@Diablos-pi2qy Have you read the manga if not this conversation is irelevant and you obviously didn't put attention to what I write and that's okay but I wont waste my time
@@Diablos-pi2qy You are so wrong that is funny dude. The only thing I would let you to understand is you are comparing and idea to a predetermine system that's what you are doing. Your examples are so flawed that is funny too hahahaha. 2 things to make them completely irrelevant to the conversation that we have. Since when every human in existence has the same capacity of imagination and visualization??? and Second since when a System create to clean rust is able to be use to clean Glass in the real word???? Aura simply is not able to have a higher level of Visualization to the level of Serie, Demon King, Macht, The Goddess and Frieren Being Frieren second to none after The Goddess. And your example about a Spell use to clean rust of a coper statue should be able to be use in rock, like come on bro you are that stupid to not notice how spells are develop system with a determine function and that's why it cannot be use to anything else that the predetermine use that it was created for.
At 24:40 Frieren always uses her modified, demon-killing version of Zoltraak which is whitish purple in color. The Frieren clone here is using Qual's OG human body disintegrating version of Zoltraak which is black in color. The clone is attacking with the intention to kill.
Seeing Frieren using the Goddesses ancient magic is so pleasing no matter how many times I rewatch it. Series would be proud. Plus people sleeping on "Momma Mage" not knowing shes a battle loving mage.
I feel like Übel is like actually delusional, but almost in a controlled way, in order to do what she does. Also I definitely agree with Frieren being a step beyond spells and just being able to manipulate her surrounding with pure mind power, no spell casting required. Also can I just say that I love these reactions, I've watched way too many reaction videos over the years, but yours are the first and only ones I actually watch fully.
26:18 I have a theory that the 'Height of Magic' spell that Frieren's clone used against Fern and that Frieren used against the Demon King, was also used by Frieren used to kill Basalt the Throne when she met Flamme. I think this because Basalt also seems to have been crushed to death (the tree behind him is full of cracks, similar to the wall behind fern, and theres a large groove carved into the ground), and the fact that Fern can't even recognise the attack as a spell might suggest that it's older than human magic, since widespread human magic began in the lifespan of Flamme, it's possible the spell is old Elven magic of some sort, which is why Frieren would know it 1000 years ago before she met Flamme. That's just my theory though, and I haven't read the Manga so it's entirely possible that its origin gets revealed in the manga and what I'm saying could be entirely wrong, but it's definitely something to think about. 28:00 Richter was saying that to Edel (the girl that was talking to him about the golems healing magic) because he'd never been introduced to her and so didn't know who she was at all. He's basically asking 'do I know you?'. Edit: 28:20, nevermind you figured that one out yourselves, that's what i get for immediately pausing mid-sentence to explain it.
There's no difference between the magic used by humans and the magic used by elves as far as the manga goes, 136 chapters deep. Elves are just a part of humanity after all. This notion of "human magic" beginning with Flamme is due to the fact that they weren't allowed to study magic, just this.
No difference between elven and human magic. Remember that even the goddesses, and demon magic can still be mana detected. Humans are so good that they literally own the new meta in the series w Zoltraak. This is probably the use of visualization to imagine manipulating reality itself, further reinforced by future major antagonist.
The episode is outstanding in narration, animation, shot composition, background music and so on. The height of animation so to speak. And pure insanity when it comes to deconstruction of reality and shattering it with magic. However all the hype aside what makes this episode outstanding to me is the couple second animation of the ant and the dragon. It is one manga panel and it is not left out, or a still image but an animated ant, an animated dragon and an animated flock of birds. Making such an effort for it shows how much the people involved gave their all to it. Man the show goes so hard on unexpected scenes it is bliss.
Your discussion at 34:50 reminds of an old Bruce Lee quote: "Before I learned the art, a punch was just a punch, and a kick, just a kick. After I learned the art, a punch was no longer a punch, a kick, no longer a kick. Now that I understand the art, a punch is just a punch and a kick is just a kick.”
This episode was really amazing. We finally got to see Frieren fight at full power and it was really intense and visually stunning. And then the fights with the replicas were also exciting. Ubel is really an incredible mage. On the other hand, I was a little disappointed to see Rchter and Lawine get eliminated so easily. But, in any case, this episode was really extraordinary. On the other hand, the goal of becoming a first-class mage has not yet been achieved and I really can't wait to see what happens next and especially to see your reaction to what's still to come in the next episode. In the meantime, thank you for this great reaction today, take care of yourself and stay well. Greetings from France.
i love that last. shes acting so familiar with him, like shes showing off the golem that shes really impressed with and hes just like "...who are you?"
Frieren - and the animators! - simply *pop* *off* in this amazing episode. Let's consider the million dollar question that is on everyone's minds: What did Frieren's clone use to attack Fern in the end? I've been told that this is still an ongoing debate, even to manga readers, so I feel it's wide open to speculation. My pet theory is that Frieren was able to use _mana_ _itself_ as a weapon to push Fern back into the wall. An analogy for this would be that Frieren's clone had been firing "bullets" at Fern that kept getting deflected, and finally - in frustration - the clone tried throwing the _gun_ itself at Fern, which got through and hit her because it was so unexpected that Fern wasn't prepared to block it. She wasn't even able to recognize what hit her, since all her attention was focused on sensing "bullets". Another interesting idea I read elsewhere is that Frieren's spell is one of those Goddess-level curses that mages can't detect. From what I see, there are two big constraints on any potential explanation. First, the spell or effect *has* to be something that very few mages can understand or do. Second, it likely has some significant drawback or risk when using it, because it is only attempted as a last resort when fighting a very powerful opponent (at least in the two cases we know where Frieren uses it). The idea that Frieren knows some special Goddess-level curse does satisfy the first condition, but I can't see how it works for the second. If this is just a simple but powerful curse for her to cast, then why didn't both Frieren and her clone open with that attack in this battle? Or if the two Frieren's couldn't use it against each other, then the clone could still have used it much earlier in the battle to incapacitate Fern. There just doesn't seem to be an obvious drawback to casting such a useful curse if this is indeed the correct explanation. Next let's consider my pet theory. The way I imagine it working if I were writing is that it would be a sort of "force mana push". As such, the mage has to first have a very large pool of mana (at the level of a Frieren or a Flamme) to even attempt it, and it would require a fair bit of training to visualize and manifest. So it's not something just any mage can use. Now, considering the second constraint, wielding mana itself as a sort of "thrown weapon" like this would have a very big and easy-to-understand downside, and it's actually one that has already been established in-universe. Richter explained back during the first test that the mana a mage controls/possesses is a protective barrier against attacks, after Lawine tried bluffing about Kanne being able to control the water in his blood. So any mage that "expelled" a significant amount of mana from their bodies to use as an unexpected weapon would essentially leave themselves "armourless" against magical retaliation for a period of time. And we did see Frieren disintegrate her clone in an instant following this invisible attack, so that kind of fits. However, this explanation does have some problems, not least of which is that it runs afoul of Fern's reaction after being struck: "What happened? Was I attacked? I don't sense any mana.". If she didn't sense any mana, then how could mana be the thing that hit her? Or maybe she just meant that she didn't sense any mana being "fashioned" into a spell in the normal way that is done. And by "normal way", I mean that the mana is consumed by the mage and "imagined" into some magical outcome (like creating a field of flowers, starting a fire, etc). Again, it's the "gun and bullet" analogy. However, that's delving really *deep* into the detailed mechanics of how magic operates in this fictional universe, which I wouldn't be surprised if this story does at some future point. But for the moment we don't know enough to say, so this just remains my own wild speculation. On a less positive note, the editing and direction during the first few minutes of this episode are quite subpar, which is unfortunate for such a near-legendary episode of television. The previous show ended with Frieren's clone seemingly dying, but then this episode starts immediately with more scenes from the fight and the cliffhanger is resolved off-screen. Upon first watch many viewers - myself included - are more than a little confused. I initially thought the new fight scenes were just a retelling of the battle we'd just watched, and were happening before Fern's attack. All the previous episodes had started with a rehash of the final scenes of the episode before it. It wasn't until the flashback of Frieren telling Fern that Zoltraak wouldn't be enough that the timeline of events became clear, and I understood that the fight was continuing. That flashback should have been seen at the start of the episode, or at least some indication given that the new Frieren vs clone fight sequences came _after_ the attack by Fern. Upon rewatch it's a spectacular sequence of events, but the first impression is definitely hindered by the lack of direction/poor editing choices. Lastly, since the pattern is well established by now, I think it's pretty clear that Sense's clone has some of the pacifist personality traits of the original Sense. Every single person she damages (Richter, Lawine, Mr. Blei, and Edel) only gets incapacitated and forced to withdraw from the dungeon. That seems like too much of a coincidence, since she could have easily been much more deadly if she chose to.
Magic is about visualization. So my pet theory is Frieren attack is her "visualization" like literally. She makes her pushing by just seeing it. Since seeing doesn't emit mana then the attack doesn't emit mana either. But note that doesn't emit ≠ doesn't require
@@gangsarisworo3759 That's an interesting idea. But it doesn't quite fit with what we see from the show. There is no significant drawback to "just _see_ someone as being pushed and it happens" that I can think of. I mean, why does Frieren only use it as a last resort? If I had that ability, I'd start most fights by visualizing my opponent being knocked over, and then disable them instantly without any risk or effort. There needs to be some weakness or vulnerability inherent in the "undetectable spell", like a long casting time, or an unavoidable dropping of the mage's defenses, etc, to match with how rare it is used in the show.
My theory on Frieren's Height of Magic spell is a localized rewriting of the laws of nature. Something like changing the direction and strength of gravity. In this theory, Frieren's mana is not being directed at Fern directly, which would be why she does not sense it or that the spell is an attack. I think this meets your conditions in that the world does not seem to have a high level of scientific understanding, so would likely not be able to sufficiently visualize how to do it; for the second, the spells main benefit would be that it is not detected by normal means, but is either imprecise or something that can be overcome if the target realizes what is happening (it also provides a huge opening to attack her, presumably taking a lot of concentration). It would be a fitting spell for Frieren, since it fits her past tactics of surprising her foes by having them underestimate her strength.
@@RoryMitchell00I just want to add that you'd open a fight with a unique OP ability. Frieren wouldn't. Frierens whole strategy relies on enemies underestimating her and it'd be silly to show your whole hand when basic attack and basic defense "is enough to beat mages of this era"
I adore the layers to the statement that "defensive magic is for blocking spells". She knows the spell, understands how and why it works, and trusts it to work, of course she can't cut through a spell like that. It's supposed to work. It's also mentioned by Qual that the defensive spell attunes itself to the mana and disperses the attacks, or something like that. But on the flip side, would Übel be able to cut through the spell if she wasn't as intimately familiar with it (unlikely considering how ingrained it is in their modern systemized magic)? Alternatively, would her own defensive spell casting suffer if she was somewhat convinced she could cut through it? Would compartmentalization make it a non-issue? Btw, the smoke surrounding Frieren's copy after the OP, before it created the black hole, was from Fern blasting her at the end of last episode.
imho, Ubel can't imagine cutting through unfamiliar matter out of nowhere. Especially since defense magic isn't even matter, but rather some kind of force field. Anything she cuts - she's seen it in real life, heard the actual sound of cutting, so it's easy for her to imagine.
I think Frieren telling Fern she underestimates her is more of a subtle way of saying Fern exceeds her expectations. A different way of expressing it directly to your student without inflating her ego.
32:39 I take it that this attack was something like a curse. Remember back to that episode with the plant? Frieren only felt that she was attacked somehow and I don't remember if Fern felt anything at all. So clearly there is a kind of mana that is so alien to humans and elfs that you don't even really recognize it. But it seems Frieren is capable of at least on of those spells that don't even register as magic for other people.
thank you so much for your sweet comment :’) john and i truly love this series so much and it means so much to us that you are enjoying watching with us !!
This is actually why Sense in my favorite 1st class mage. yes she makes the test even harder because of the clone and not helping as well, but its an exam, so expect it to be hard and She provided a golem for you to use in an emergency. its a gesture of "If you fail today, you can try again later" unlike the other ones who just go "you died? too bad"
The height of magic is a spell so advanced that fern cant even recognize what it is, because shes never seen this before. I like that to beat Frieren it took another frieren and fern together to take her out, It shows how far Frieren is still is from Fern.
About the height of magic question: notice how they emphasize “magic is the world of visualization” not a single mention of mana. My theory is that the attack Frieren used is pure visualization. She pushed fern back to that wall through sheer will alone. Most spells follow the equation “Visualization + mana =effect” but this attack is just “visualization = effect” which is why Fern couldn’t detect it as an attack nor could she detect any mana from it.
It might be something unique to frieren alone, same thing with demons and goddess with their magic; you don't really understand the science behind them, so I think it must be an elf thing.
There's a similar idea in the Eragon fantasy book series, that it's possible to cast spells completely bypassing the system of magic. The casting system is there to help control your intent and feelings and translate them into a consistent spell. It's possible to just bypass the process and put your intent into magic without the casting ritual, but no one ever does it because it's almost impossible to control. It's a cool idea. Could be a similar thing happening here
@@EmanatorofIX precisely! There’s a reason both of these instances happened very close with each other. It’s the same concept but in different magnitudes
Practically every second of Frieren and Fern vs. Frieren is packed with information and character bits. It opens with both Frierens simultaneously moving their staffs to find an opening and altering their defensive matrix to cover the opponent's firing line. Fern's first Zoltraak strikes the clone within the mana blindness window - it had to, because the clone reacted to the spell but couldn't tell where it came from, so it had to resort to an omnidirectional shield that was less mana efficient. The black beam the clone fires at Frieren is specifically the original Zoltraak, the one that Qual shot at Fern - Frieren prefers the demon-killing version she crafted, but is still perfectly capable of using the one that was tuned to kill humans. Frieren's estimation of Fern being faster on the draw than her is spot-on; the clone not only gets one arm blown off by a cheap shot, but when it spins around to respond, Fern has already cast the spell that takes the other arm off, then follows up with a paralyzing volley. Frieren has been seen using some variation, usually a stronger one, of practically every other examinee's magic at some point in the series, but especially here - Jilwer speeds, Reelseiden cutting, Waldgose wind, Daosdorg fire, etc. On top of that, her arsenal includes many spells that are far beyond what anyone has cast yet, such as cosmic spells and ones that look distinctly dark and cursed - at one point, it looks like reality is starting to crack. She may find joy in collecting simple household cleaning spells, but she clearly has found and probably developed far more than just that in all her years. The final spell the clone uses, what Fern calls the height of magic, is truly the ultimate attack despite seeming like the most mundane of them all. A simple force-push. But it strikes without warning, seemingly doesn't utilize mana, completely shuts down its target, and can't even be understood to be a form of attack. Magic is imagination made real, and mages that can't internalize the idea that a phenomenon is magic renders them completely unable to respond. It's akin to an assassin infiltrating an enemy camp and silently picking everyone off without ever raising the alarm - you can't fight off an attack that you don't know is happening. And forget a staff, Frieren doesn't need either of her damn arms to cast it.
Regarding Übel vs. Burg: I don't think she was trying to kill Burg, but I also don't think she was trying to avoid killing him. She just hit as hard as she could and assumed Burg could protect himself. Also, fun fact: the aside about Sense's hair being hard to maintain and Übel replying that "you should cut it" is originally the end-of-chapter silly joke panel in the manga, and the anime took that exchange and integrated it into the scene to give Übel a badass finishing line. As for the "height of magic" that Fern couldn't detect as a spell, the only "undetectable" magic we've seen previously with a similar property is the chaos flower's sleeping curse in Episode 15. Curses are apparently just spells that are beyond the current reckoning of humanity's magic and therefore can't be detected. I don't think Frieren's ability is an actual curse in the same sense as those used by demons or monsters, but it seems undetectable for similar reasons: not because the mana is hidden per se, but because it's in a form that people can't recognize. Anyway, I don't know if you've already recorded your next reaction, but if not: you should try to predict who's going to pass the next test before watching!
Frieren's "height of magic" spell in my opinion leaves her completely vulnerable and open while being unimaginably powerful. Which is why she only used it once before, 80 years ago.. Speaks to how immensely powerful the Hero party was and Freiren's deep trust in them and their teamwork for her to be comfortable using it against the DK. Or it was a similar situation where the party was driven to a corner and she trusted the three of them to protect her while she finished off the DK.
She stated they almost lost that fight, she HAD to use It, and yes, as It seem it leaves her completely vulnerable, seems like she needs to stare directly at her target and put all of her attetion focused on it. My guess is the Demon King was bringing them all down at the end as they started to get tired and Frieren in the back was the last one standing, so she had to use this and I guess Himmel, Heiter and Eisen gathered their last strenghs to kill him. I don't think It was about trust, but about It being her last resort, I'm not saying she didn't trusted them, she said herself she trusted them more than they trusted themselves, what I mean is that using that was not part of any plan, and when she used It the rest of the party was surely taken by surprise because she never talked about It ever, but in the end they acted and resolved the situation because that was their way, always focused on objectives.
Fieren's 'force attack' is actually explained earlier in the anime. In this episode, Fern says she can't recognize it as a spell. When was this used before? When Frieren described curses. 'A magic that lies outside the human magic system and therefore can't be understood. It's Frieren's curse. Another explanation and addition for this, is that every mage, apart from Serie, has a specialty. One might assume that Frieren doesn't since she's so old, and therefore, good at many of them. But i believe, based on what we've seen in season one with how she always collects a variety of spells and is very good at analyzing them; even disassembling Serie's ward within a day, as well as dispelling Aura's curse on demand in their last battle (something that no one has been able to do before). Frieren's specialty is Meta magic, and she has weaponized it into a curse that no one else understands.
A few episodes back, when a curse put everyone to sleep aside from Sein, Frieren said that curses are magic that humanity doesnt understand, and because of that, they can't feel it affecting their bodies. Fern said that she didn't recognize Frieren's attack as a spell, is something so advanced that is like a curse to Fern
26:20 I love how she gets some subtle stuff all the time I Saw a couple of other reactions and they completelly miss that Frieren was referring the Demon King. Fern is a beast.
It's amazing that never in anytime Fern felt fear for Frieren only respect from her powers until that pushed that almost killed her. The fear that she never knew Frieren deeply when it comes to fighting.
Ive had a theory since I saw these late episodes that the magic schools and institutions in Frieren's world are actually probably holding back magic. They've managed to create a way to teach people magic well enough, so you might get more mages out of it, but it probably holds back the ceiling because they are teaching "rules". Once you learn a rule, your imagination of what magic is holds it back. Ubel was self taught. I dont think she has any image of rules that magic must abide by.
Now remembering that ubel's spell explaination was in this episode is really fitting. i feel its trying to say that ubel has reached the pinnacle of magic. Evenmoreso knowing her latest uses of magic in the manga (not in a power sense but in a context sense.)
Here is my head canon on Frierens Ultima: Normaly you form a mental image in your mind, project it on your mana while that is flowing outwards to form an effect in the physical world. Frierens "spell" draws her mana into her mindspace to project the image directly onto the world. It´s like the difference between an object traveling from A to B and the object quantum-tunneling between both points, which would need much more energy (Don´t quote me on that one, i´m not a physicist)
My theory is that since everyone in Frierens world has mana, and the function of spells for mages and priests is to help them visualize their mana doing something, that what Frieren was doing is just bypassing the pre designed spell path and through visualization and pure will, using her mana to strike out. Remember when Flamme first rescued Frieren from her village, and they were ambushed by the three powerful demons that Flamme promptly vaporized along with the hill they stood on? I suspect that was not a spell, but Flamme directly pouring her mana into an effect (explode) instead of a defined spell. I think that’s also why Frieren was in wide-eyed astonishment. She already knew that Flamme was much stronger, but she was seeing mana used in a fashion she had never imagined. I think THIS was the magic Flamme was actually referring too when speaking to Frieren at the end of her life and counseling Frieren to remain hidden in order to grow strong enough to defeat the demon king and that the ability to directly use one’s mana without a spell is the height of magic. As for Fern not detecting mana in the attack, if you remember the village beset by the monster plant draining everyones mana and slowly killing them. That magic was referred to as a “curse”, mainly because it’s mechanism was unknown, but it was using mana and Frieren could feel she was under attack but that was all. I suspect Flammes attack on the three demons on the hill and clone Frierens on Fern would almost fall into that category and thus be undetectable and devastating when used by a mage as powerful as Flamme, Frieren, or maybe Fern someday now that she saw Frierens clone attack. ( The last isn’t a spoiler, just pure theory since the author seems to employ “harmonizing” repeating story themes.)
WTF are you even talking about lol? Haha Control the laws of Nature? When did she do that? Frieren doesn't even have that level of Power. Just don't get surprised when you see her getting no diffed by human warriors later down the line
@@Greymist73curses are said to be spells that humanity has yet to understand AND that either PETRIFY the target or put the target to SLEEP. Flamme and Frieren's spells are therefore not curses.
The "I underestimate you" comment, as I understand it, also means, "you always surpass my expectations." As for Ubel and the proctor, I think she killed him on purpose and the , "Oops, I cut too deep," was a smartass comment. Her superhero/villian name should be The Barber.
Explicit also a point, maybe someone wondered why Ubel was not arrested or what after the killing of the examiner. This is inherent in the unspoken: the exam tests put both examiner and examinees in the same environment (in the first test we see Sense pull out the umbrella after the barrier is destroyed). So just as examinees can die during the trials (the team killed meeting Denken) and the magic association is not prosecuted, examiners can also die in rare cases, so we are limited to the rejection of those who kill the examiner.
Richter was saying "Who are you?" to the guy that just arrived on the golem. It was the guy that went in first thinking he could solo the second test, A NOBODY LMAO!
To give TL;DR context as to why Frieren clone is hard to kill: The only window they get to hit her is if she does not detect your magic, because it's "slightly" delayed in Frieren's perspective, of course the clone has this as well. If you see Frieren block a spell with full shield on, it means you force her to use a great amount of mana to protect herself, regardless of the spell's strength, which speaks volumes to Fern's ability to force Frieren to block by instinct
what i got from frierin underestimating fern is that frierin still sees fern as the little kid she first met, like parents who still see a little kid in their children even if their children is strong
One cool detail is that the Zoltrak that you see cast by clone Frieren is black. Same as Zoltrak from the demon used in Episode 3. Lugner mentioned that what Fern used cannot be considered Zoltrak... and that's because the Zoltrak demons used - the black Zoltrak - is human-killing magic, and the Zoltrak Fern/Frieren use is demon-killing magic.
the way Ubels scene and Frieren are kind of interlinked tells you about Ubels ability. Surprisingly, not many people get the connection. Ubel, Sein, and Frieren has something in common and I'll give it to you to discover 🤐
"Magic can't create anything the caster can't visualize perfectly." So Frieren can visualize all of the spells she's casting? Like the galaxy dimension shattering spell thing she does to create the opening? Or the chibaku tensei/exploding meteor attack her clone does at the beginning? Sheesh
Generally true, except "chibaku tensei" doesn't create an accretion disk. But a black hole does. So yes, Frieren is capable of imagining and visualizing a freaking singularity.
It's actually still magic. Notice how there is a magic circle under clone-Frieren's feet. A magic circle different from Zoltraak or any others we've seen. It's just magic that Fern can't understand. It's akin to how some demonic/monster magic can't be detected by humanity and is categorized as curses.
Frieren is always looking for the "mythical" spells like Sour Grapes, Warm Tea, I think is because she already knows all the God tier break the Universal dimension "stuff"
Regarding Serie's comments on Frieren's possible death, Serie said: Anime Season 1 Episode 25 around 21;57-22;07 (Crunchyroll Subs): "IF anyone kills you, it will be either the Demon King or a human mage." Manga Chapter 53 Page 17 Panels 3-4: Official TL by VIZ: "IF you are ever to be killed, it will be by the Demon King or a human mage." Unofficial TL by Kirei Cake: "IF there is anyone who might kill you, it would either be the Demon King or a human mage." ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- However, for an IF statement to be true, it doesn't necessarily mean that the antecedent is true (ie, Frieren may never be killed by anyone and the statement would still be true).
Ubel seems like an interesting mage, unlike normal mages she learns spells by understanding another mage rather than reading a grimoir, and in doing so she avoids learning the constraints or strengths of other spells. Since magic is constrained by visualization, and her imagination is not constrained by learned rules, she has a lot of potential. Probably something related to the height of magic Frieren used.
29:00 There's a very important distinction here. Fern did not say she "didn't recognize it as mana." She didn't perceive it as a spell. If you think of a spell as a way to transform mana into something else, then what Fern got hit with was PURE MANA. That's basically antithetical to what a mage is.
On the final spell the Frieren clone used against Fern it shows the active magic circle under the clone so the spell is affecting it likely giving it immense telekenetic power so what hit Fern wasn't magic in itself just physical force. The fact it could use it without arms shows there are things Frieren can do without even using them.
Remember that Frieren UNDER-estimating Fern still amounts to "my 17-year-old student is good enough to stand among the 50 strongest mages in the world." It's not like she withholds praise - it's just that no matter how good she thinks Fern is, Fern still manages to impress her. Also, re: Ubel, if you go back to episode 18 when Falsch and Sense are introducing some of the new characters, you'll notice that Ubel and Sense briefly make eye contact and Sense is visibly distressed.
22:43 guys did you not watch the previous episode? they literally spelt it out, that the spiegel's core was behind the door that Frieren's clone was guarding.
Notice how Frieren is constantly trying to lift up Ferns mentality of being able to beat her. Because one has to be able to imagine beating their opponents if they stand even a sliver of chance.
I think you guys are the only ones reacting to this who understood the thing about Frieren underestimating her, that then also the replica is underestimating her. All other reactions of this fight I've seen seems to miss that point.
If the poor dude proctoring Übel's test named his spell "Super-Duper-Defensive-Aura" he would be still alive. But he named it "immovable Cloak" and Übel's brain went: "cLoAk?! i CaN cUt ThAt"
lmao 🤣, reminds of some quote i heard in some anime a long time ago "names have power"
While funny, I do want to point out that it's not as simple as Ubel thinks she can, therefore she can. There's actually more nuance to it as already demonstrated through the many examples in the series. I recommend checking my comment above (if you use the newest comment sort). Specifically, the one that starts with "Explaining Ubel vs Burg/Sense ..."
😂😂😂😂😂
ubel is basically an orc from 40k universe but in anime girl skin
@@Forbidden_Chocolate Bleach
I actually think Frieren’s statement about Fern always being underestimated by her is very complimentary. You could interpret what she says as “you have always exceeded my expectations” which is very high praise.
She was totally praising her.
Yeah, Frieren is just a typical grandma that likes to talk in riddles when praising someone. We tend to forget how old she is 😅.
Yes, Frieren also said Fern will always be a little child in her heart in the ep in which Fern was sick.
Part of that underestimation probably comes from that.
This simple praise really shows the depth of their connections
That's why Fern smiled a bit
that "i undeerestimate you" line was also about the replica acting like its original, but having no mind. so if real Frieren underestimates Fern, but having a mind allows her to understand it, the replica will act like Fern is not a threat. and lacking of mind will not allow it to understand Fern can be a threat in certain situation they trying to create. i mean, lets face it, 1x1 Fern will not survive even a minute against Frieren, she's not dangerous at all at this point. but the thing is they are 2x1, where Fern can make a difference.
Can't believe the algorithm hid this upload from me for 52 seconds.
hid it for a whole hour from me!!
@@alexzmolik9469 youtube was hoping you guys would stop lurking online
Just like fb where your friend's post are not the most important to show in the timeline.
"Himmel the hero used to wait for 52 seconds."
my frieren-coded brain wants to say “it was a mere 52 seconds” but john and i both don’t stand for any algorithm tomfoolery :)
Ubel really said the mage equivalent of "This sign can't stop me because I can't read"
While funny, I do want to point out that it's not as simple as Ubel thinks she can, therefore she can or that she's special and can ignore magical rules. There's actually more nuance to it as already demonstrated through the many examples in the series. I recommend checking my comment above (if you use the newest comment sort). Specifically, the one that starts with "Explaining Ubel vs Burg/Sense ..."
The delulu is strong in this one 😂 love Übel
@@Diablos-pi2qy Agree.
Characters in this series refer to magic as that of imagination. Ubel comes across as someone who often described as mechanically inclined. Or through experience, innate understanding, and instinct .. can WILLFULLY manipulate her surroundings to her desires.
While the "This sign can't stop me because I can't read" is cute and funny, seems not accurate at all.
There is a brilliance to her, if not a bit of a psychopathic brilliance.
Ubel is a sorcerer in a world of wizards.
I'd like to praise Methode, definitely one of the MVPs of this 2nd exam.
Killed the Gargoyle, healed injured mage Dünste, detected the positions of the clones and stood her ground against Ferns clone until the end.
She's very impressive indeed.
In season 2 you will see Methode showing her worth and also her fury
I don't think she stood her ground, I think she straight up defeated the Fern clone.
If only Sein had stayed with the group a bit more he would've met Momthode
@OscarIna0fTimeVODs this part has interesting developments, but I will not spoil this
She also knew enough about hypnotism, mind control and other control spells to test both Frieren and Fern for both, verifying that they could not bind or control Frieren but could do so for Fern.
Then she spent the entire last battle coordinating people so they could successfully gang up on and destroy clones while keeping an eye on the status of the battle with her senses.
She's the definition of quiet competency. Just... Good at what she does to the point where her presence allows the rest of the group to maximize their effectiveness.
Fern so sick the clone swapped priorities to her and forgot about Frieren. What a beast.
We gamers call it "taking aggro"
@@ericsu0630 and to add, player with highest damage usually get the aggro
Fern going full star battleship barrage
It was probably wary of Fern's Zoltraak since she was already familiarized with everything the real Frieren was throwing at her
I too would be pissed off if my arm chopped by barrage of Zoltraak. 😂
I love how proud Fern was when Frieren said that she underestimates her. Both Flamme and Frieren basically made the "hidden master" trope their entire strategy against the demons. By looking less threatening than they actually are, they get the demons to become overconfident and let their guard down and Frieren just told her she's not only on the same path, but far enough along to even make her own teacher underestimate her.
Probably one of the best compliments Frieren could have given her.
A really neat detail is that if you go back to episode 18, when Sense and the other proctor are talking about the examinees, when they describe Ubel, she looks in their direction and smirks to them, and then you see Sense glaring at Ubel. At the time we had no context for such a reaction, but now we know.
the context was that she killed one of their damn colleagues
@11:12 Few episodes ago you could notice the Stille coming and sitting near Sense and Genau. This tells you how proficient they are at concealing their mana to a near zero output. The same applies with their clones.
Edit: corrections. Thank you @onetom2222
Sense, Genau, Stille
"I've never tried it before because I'm so clumsy." Yes Ubel, you were so clumsy that you made an oopsies and "cut to deep"
Indeed
The fact that Ubel obviously enjoyed killing the one group of bandits, and showed visible disappointment when Kraft stopped her from being able to kill the second group, does tell us that Ubel has some extreme psychopathic traits. She enjoys killing, and even torturing living beings. And she does not feel remorse for the suffering of others. She's an interesting _character_ I guess. However, she's most certainly not a likeable _person_ in the real world.
@@RoryMitchell00 I think psychopaths tend to be pretty likeable in the real world, and Übel is no exception. They are very easy to get along with. The issue is that they are dangerous. So you only get to like them until they decide that they want to try what killing or torturing you feels like and you can't really predict if they will or won't hurt you. There's no emotional bond, or if there is it's one sided.
@@RoryMitchell00 i don't think she's a psychopath because her main ability requires her to emphasize with somone. psychopaths cant do that
@@tyrewillis9841 I don't believe her when she says she is "empathizing" with her targets. From what I see, she is just able to _understand_ enough about them for her skills at intuition to reproduce their magic. That's all. She figures out what "makes them tick" and copies their behaviour, all without needing to have any empathy or concern for them.
One of the neat things with Frierens golem spell is we initially see it in episode 5 when she's explaining to Stark how she likes to collect spells, except in that flashback the golem is break dancing
Methode is definitely the ‘silent beast’ of the group. The fact that she stood her ground against Fern’s replica without taking any notable damage at all while someone as skilled as Ehre got completely annihilated back in the first test speaks for itself.
You are completely right about THIS test. It WAS meant to teach teamwork and camraderie, whereas the first test was more just a battle royale of people fighting each other. The tests kind of refelct the proctors that create them. Sense is a pacifist, she wants people to get along, she wants teamwork among the first class mages, but the earlier proctor didn't care all that much about teamwork he just wanted strength.
it seems like that at first, but theres a reason Genau's test requirement was that all team members be alive by the end of test. and we'll see why in season 2
@@LotharPOGenau also cares about teamwork, but differently from Sense. Sense is the "Work together and the solution would be clear and simple" teamwork kind but Genau is the "Screw everyone else you and your specific team are the only thing that matters. Play dirty if you must just stay alive" teamwork kind. And yeah that mentality of his definitely got explored later on.
Also it was a mix of luck-based and a 1st class mage "making" their own luck. In hindsight, it encouraged and tested small-group tactics, as well as patience, and information gathering. It's like a scenario where you are deep in enemy territory with a small group. Like capturing and escaping with a high-priority target.
Any group moving on the northern platueu needs a first class mage not just for power, but also subtlety, wits, and adaptability for any sort of situation that might crop up.
A cool detail that lot of people miss is the Frieren clones Zoltraak. When Frieren, Fern and most other mages use it, it’s a white beam. This is because it’s been modified to kill demons specifically, like Lugner said during his battle with Fern. But when Qual made it, it was to kill humans. Quals Zoltraak was black. The Frieren clone used a super Zoltraak that was black to kill Frieren at the end of the fight. I love this little attention to detail. It’s never explained or anything. Just happens.
the beauty of visual story telling
@@nanotsukia wonderful art that isn’t appreciated enough because a lot of people need to be spoonfed information for them to get it
My headcanon: Somewhere in that 50 years after Frieren left her party to wander, she spent some time in the lab on Zoltraak research. Maybe she starts with "original recipe" Z and pushes its destructive power as far as she reasonably can (the version we saw in the episode) before tuning it to be quick and mana-efficient [also super-lethal to demons, in the Frieren/Fern version, at least] "basic offensive magic".
@@ArrtificeALL mages of humanity gathered together to research zoltraak until it became ordinary offensive magic. Frieren was a part of it and she was described as a great contributor, but she didn't do it alone
Also lernens as well when he has his little "serie must remember me freak out" later.
How much do I enjoy seeing you guys have such great time watching this wonderful anime! Thank you for the enthusiasm and commentary
hi there !! john and i both thank you for your incredibly kind words ! it honestly means so much to us :’)
Frieren said to Flamme when teaching her the flower spell - This isn't like you. Now, Fern saying this to Frieren. Student to teacher. The writer likes drawing symmetric parallels a lot.
Oh my God! I know that this author do a lot of these symmetric storytelling, and I love it for it, but this one flew right over my head until now! Great find, thanks!
God and both “this isn’t like you’s” were from students remarking on their master’s sudden vulnerability too
Frieren didn't say it was unlike Flamme to teach her the flower spell, that was something else you are misremembering.
@@totenkreuz6763 she did say that when Flamme told her that the flower spell was her favourite one, Frieren says that because all she learned from Flamme was magic for vengeance, magic as a weapon and that's why Frieren stops loving magic so much...
They said those things for completely different reasons though, so it's not that much of a parallel.
Explaining Ubel vs Burg/Sense; I think that Ubel does actually understand Burg's and Sense's enchantments (not in a logical way, but in a more intuitive way) because she wouldn't be able to cut through them otherwise.
It's not that she's special and can just straight up ignore other magics. It's exactly because she understands them, that she can construct images of cutting them and combine it with Reelseiden (which allows her to cut anything she understands) to cut through those other magics.
Unlike what many including Land seem to think, she's actually a decently smart and capable mage that is more "street-smart" rather than "book-smart".
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However, she cannot cut defensive magic, because there are two main hurdles;
(1) The defensive magic itself is probably a superior spell to Reelseiden. As Qual says;
Ep3 (Crunchyroll Subs): "It attunes itself to the offensive magic and disperses its power." (Best TL imo)
Ch5 (VIZ Official TL): "It works by aligning itself with the offensive magic and dispersing the power."
Ch5 (Kirei Cake Fan TL): "It's designed to align with the offense magic and disperse its might."
(2) Ubel would have to visualize weaknesses in defensive magic (if they actually exist since she cannot just make them exist) to be able to cut it. However even assuming that such weaknesses exist, visualizing/understanding them would in turn weaken her own defensive magic, since she now knows about its weaknesses, and so can no longer trust it as a proper defense.
Big props to you two for making me realize that Fern not even registering Clone Frieren's attack as a spell might have something to do with the bit from the first test where Denken said that even the most powerful mage can't hide their mana in the moment that they cast a spell.
That spell has more in common with demon magic, which is not common magic
@@pierluigidipietro8097There's no demon magic that work like Frieren's spell at the end. People just like to spread this theory because curses are also not perceived as magic, but to be classified as a curse your spell needs to either PETRIFY the target or put the target to sleep, and Frieren's spell clearly didn't do any of that
@boboyo3140 curses are not limited to this two effects.
@@pierluigidipietro8097 they are. It has been stated TWICE. And think about ALL the instances where curses were used, they either petrified the target or put the target to sleep. Macht's Diagoldze petrify the target turning them into gold, Grausam's illusion curse magic puts the targets to sleep... Show me one instance where a curse has been used and it did something other than petrify or put people to sleep.
@@boboyo3140 that's not true. And you're entering spoilers right now.
It's also not a curse because it's too "direct". What probably happens is that Frieren isn't using any spells, she's using pure mana. Fern statement is the following: "I'm not sensing any mana. I don't RECOGNIZE THIS AS A SPELL."
There's also no indication of Frieren ever having learned curses, because if she had, she'd also have been able to work towards countering them, the same way she was able to deconstruct Zoltraak.
OMG, this intro just makes it clear that your on-screen chemistry (not alluding to any romantic chemistry btw) is top tier, and I'm gonna miss you guys doing your reactions together. I'm sure the decision is thought-out, and I respect it, but that doesn't mean I'm not gonna be sad. :(
Agreed. I can't help it, they're too cute
his body language is telling that he tries to be within boundary. she is kinda playing ignorance.
We always see Frieren cast magic with her staff, but in episode 8 - the fight with Draht, she didn't use her staff too. I think many people missed that (including me).
The golems are actually such Gs, man. The definition of 'coming in clutch'. Just the bottle breaks and BOOM - right into action. I imagine them popping out and just being like 'Let's fucking gooooo' as they carry their user like a football out of the dungeon.
Best Frieren reactions on youtube, can't wait to see the next ones.
oh my goodness wow !! thank you so much :’) it’s comments like these that really make mine and john’s day ! p.s. you may wanna keep an eye out for a new vid tomorrow!
One point I missed on my first view of the episode is the last person carried out by a golem is the arrogant mage that declared he'd clear the dungeon by himself.
He didn't get down far enough to meet the other mages and hit the rule that the golem will bring them out at dawn.
Yep and he's the one he asked who are you too.
I'm gonna be in the corner grating my teeth knowing I have to wait 2 weeks to get the full 27 + 28 reactions. I look forward to your fun analysis, and can't wait to see you both back for season 2. YOU HAVE TO PLAN TO REACT TOGETHER, I can't lose this synergy!
hi there :) ! thank you so much for watching with us !! how does episode 27 for tomorrow sound 👀 ??
@@FTF-Media It's not fair I can only give this comment 1 thumbs up! You're spoiling us?? Not gonna complain about gifts, thanks!
Im like addict refreshing your channel for new Frieren reaction > . < and you made my day today
oh my gosh that means so much to both john and i, so thank you so much :’) !! p.s. a little stille told me that episode 27 will be uploaded tomorrow :)
Ubel: You got purdy hair.
Sense: 😨
Poor Wirbel, always having to carry his team
I was expecting for you guys watch this episode for so much time 😭😭😭
This episode is soooo good! I can't even describe it!
Fern is so strong and Frieren is so awesome and both of them are so cool, each one in their own way!
And the redemption of Ubel???? Omg!
I was afraid of her and suddenly I was in love 💜
It's almost in the end of the season and I'm very excited for the two next episodes with you guys
🥹 I just realized that Fern broke her staff after damaging her Master! A moment of passage. She is no longer a child!
I ❤️ Good Storytelling.
26:36 maybe somebody pointed it out already, but you can see the ashes rising up to the left, under Methode - meaning she successfully subdued Fern's clone, after whatever horrific battle they've had (judging by the destruction around her)
_After_ the Spiegel got destroyed tho...which means she could not kill Fern's clone, at least not before the Spiegel got destroyed (which meant all clones got destroyed) ... and she looked struggling.
@@johnnykotletti4614 Maybe, but also maybe not. Perhaps Methode realized that the clones respawn sometime after being killed, and decided against killing Fern's clone to prevent it from respawning (since Fern is a threat at sniping mages). This is actually likely, given that Methode has a great mana detection, and so would've detected the new clones.
@@Diablos-pi2qy Yeah, I definitely think Methode opted to just bind the Fern replica rather than destroying it. They made a point to mention that she tested binding magic on real Fern beforehand, to make sure it would work on the replica.
I love how in episode 18 when the first exam starts and the proctors are watching the the contenders, Sense gets really nervous when they talk about Ubel. She must be terrified of her.
Something neat about the zoltraak that Frieren's clone casts is that while Frieren usually uses the white zoltraak that seems to signify its tweaks to make it effective for killing demons, the clone uses the black version that Qual used to kill humans.
I have to admit that I have been following your progress since episode 2 when I found your reactions. I was waiting patiently until you got to this episode! Clone Frieren using no staff and just pure visualisation to pin Fern was so awesome.
I don't think it's pure visualization. It's actually still magic. Notice how there is a magic circle under clone-Frieren's feet. A magic circle different from Zoltraak or any others we've seen. It's just magic that Fern can't understand. It's akin to how some demonic/monster magic can't be detected by humanity and is categorized as curses.
@@Diablos-pi2qyI agree is akin to curses and is still categorize by magic, but 100% has something to do with higher level of visualization because what is magic other than the power to visualize, I think most people get into the idea that the magic in this series is like every other typical medieval magic, but is explain perfectly that magic in this world simply does not work without a perfect visualization of the action and change you want to produce in the real world from your visualization.
So for me is more like the correct explanation of curses is the ability for produce changes in the world without the need of mana and just the simple use of visualization.
@@Daiivys I disagree with the notion that visualization alone allows anything. There have been more than a few examples showing that this is indeed not the case:
(1) Basic Offensive Magic cannot pierce dragon scales or Basic Defensive Magic, regardless of the attacker's visualization. OTHERWISE, Frieren would've taught Fern how to do it when she asked Fern to attack the Solar Dragon in S01E05 in the former case, and Basic Defensive Magic would actually be useless in the latter case.
(2) Frieren's spell to clean a bronze statue was NOT usable for a stone statue. If it was purely a visualization based system, then there is absolutely no reason for why Frieren wouldn't be able to use the folk spell in S01E16 to clean Kraft's & Unknown-Priest's statues.
(3) Regardless of Aura's visualization, her scales were already tilting towards Frieren, even though Aura was unaware that Frieren had more mana at that point. If it was a purely visualization based system, then Aura would've been able to dominate/control anyone including Frieren.
Just to name some of the most important ones. I have a fairly good post on "rFrieren" titled "Important Lore that a lot of people get wrong" for more info.
@@Diablos-pi2qy Have you read the manga if not this conversation is irelevant and you obviously didn't put attention to what I write and that's okay but I wont waste my time
@@Diablos-pi2qy You are so wrong that is funny dude.
The only thing I would let you to understand is you are comparing and idea to a predetermine system that's what you are doing.
Your examples are so flawed that is funny too hahahaha.
2 things to make them completely irrelevant to the conversation that we have.
Since when every human in existence has the same capacity of imagination and visualization???
and Second since when a System create to clean rust is able to be use to clean Glass in the real word????
Aura simply is not able to have a higher level of Visualization to the level of Serie, Demon King, Macht, The Goddess and Frieren Being Frieren second to none after The Goddess.
And your example about a Spell use to clean rust of a coper statue should be able to be use in rock, like come on bro you are that stupid to not notice how spells are develop system with a determine function and that's why it cannot be use to anything else that the predetermine use that it was created for.
At 24:40 Frieren always uses her modified, demon-killing version of Zoltraak which is whitish purple in color. The Frieren clone here is using Qual's OG human body disintegrating version of Zoltraak which is black in color.
The clone is attacking with the intention to kill.
Seeing Frieren using the Goddesses ancient magic is so pleasing no matter how many times I rewatch it. Series would be proud. Plus people sleeping on "Momma Mage" not knowing shes a battle loving mage.
I feel like Übel is like actually delusional, but almost in a controlled way, in order to do what she does. Also I definitely agree with Frieren being a step beyond spells and just being able to manipulate her surrounding with pure mind power, no spell casting required.
Also can I just say that I love these reactions, I've watched way too many reaction videos over the years, but yours are the first and only ones I actually watch fully.
Woohoo! My favorite episode! Curious as to your reaction (I'm going to watch now :-p )
26:18
I have a theory that the 'Height of Magic' spell that Frieren's clone used against Fern and that Frieren used against the Demon King, was also used by Frieren used to kill Basalt the Throne when she met Flamme. I think this because Basalt also seems to have been crushed to death (the tree behind him is full of cracks, similar to the wall behind fern, and theres a large groove carved into the ground), and the fact that Fern can't even recognise the attack as a spell might suggest that it's older than human magic, since widespread human magic began in the lifespan of Flamme, it's possible the spell is old Elven magic of some sort, which is why Frieren would know it 1000 years ago before she met Flamme.
That's just my theory though, and I haven't read the Manga so it's entirely possible that its origin gets revealed in the manga and what I'm saying could be entirely wrong, but it's definitely something to think about.
28:00
Richter was saying that to Edel (the girl that was talking to him about the golems healing magic) because he'd never been introduced to her and so didn't know who she was at all. He's basically asking 'do I know you?'.
Edit: 28:20, nevermind you figured that one out yourselves, that's what i get for immediately pausing mid-sentence to explain it.
There's no difference between the magic used by humans and the magic used by elves as far as the manga goes, 136 chapters deep. Elves are just a part of humanity after all. This notion of "human magic" beginning with Flamme is due to the fact that they weren't allowed to study magic, just this.
I kinda see where you going with the Basalt thing. Well it doesn't answer everything but certainly this is thought provoking.
No difference between elven and human magic. Remember that even the goddesses, and demon magic can still be mana detected. Humans are so good that they literally own the new meta in the series w Zoltraak. This is probably the use of visualization to imagine manipulating reality itself, further reinforced by future major antagonist.
The episode is outstanding in narration, animation, shot composition, background music and so on. The height of animation so to speak. And pure insanity when it comes to deconstruction of reality and shattering it with magic. However all the hype aside what makes this episode outstanding to me is the couple second animation of the ant and the dragon. It is one manga panel and it is not left out, or a still image but an animated ant, an animated dragon and an animated flock of birds. Making such an effort for it shows how much the people involved gave their all to it. Man the show goes so hard on unexpected scenes it is bliss.
Your discussion at 34:50 reminds of an old Bruce Lee quote:
"Before I learned the art, a punch was just a punch, and a kick, just a kick. After I learned the art, a punch was no longer a punch, a kick, no longer a kick. Now that I understand the art, a punch is just a punch and a kick is just a kick.”
This episode was really amazing. We finally got to see Frieren fight at full power and it was really intense and visually stunning. And then the fights with the replicas were also exciting. Ubel is really an incredible mage. On the other hand, I was a little disappointed to see Rchter and Lawine get eliminated so easily. But, in any case, this episode was really extraordinary. On the other hand, the goal of becoming a first-class mage has not yet been achieved and I really can't wait to see what happens next and especially to see your reaction to what's still to come in the next episode. In the meantime, thank you for this great reaction today, take care of yourself and stay well. Greetings from France.
i love that last. shes acting so familiar with him, like shes showing off the golem that shes really impressed with and hes just like "...who are you?"
Frieren's face at 8:24 and the clone's face at 25:21 exude pure "f**k around and find out" energy.
Frieren - and the animators! - simply *pop* *off* in this amazing episode.
Let's consider the million dollar question that is on everyone's minds: What did Frieren's clone use to attack Fern in the end? I've been told that this is still an ongoing debate, even to manga readers, so I feel it's wide open to speculation. My pet theory is that Frieren was able to use _mana_ _itself_ as a weapon to push Fern back into the wall. An analogy for this would be that Frieren's clone had been firing "bullets" at Fern that kept getting deflected, and finally - in frustration - the clone tried throwing the _gun_ itself at Fern, which got through and hit her because it was so unexpected that Fern wasn't prepared to block it. She wasn't even able to recognize what hit her, since all her attention was focused on sensing "bullets". Another interesting idea I read elsewhere is that Frieren's spell is one of those Goddess-level curses that mages can't detect.
From what I see, there are two big constraints on any potential explanation. First, the spell or effect *has* to be something that very few mages can understand or do. Second, it likely has some significant drawback or risk when using it, because it is only attempted as a last resort when fighting a very powerful opponent (at least in the two cases we know where Frieren uses it).
The idea that Frieren knows some special Goddess-level curse does satisfy the first condition, but I can't see how it works for the second. If this is just a simple but powerful curse for her to cast, then why didn't both Frieren and her clone open with that attack in this battle? Or if the two Frieren's couldn't use it against each other, then the clone could still have used it much earlier in the battle to incapacitate Fern. There just doesn't seem to be an obvious drawback to casting such a useful curse if this is indeed the correct explanation.
Next let's consider my pet theory. The way I imagine it working if I were writing is that it would be a sort of "force mana push". As such, the mage has to first have a very large pool of mana (at the level of a Frieren or a Flamme) to even attempt it, and it would require a fair bit of training to visualize and manifest. So it's not something just any mage can use. Now, considering the second constraint, wielding mana itself as a sort of "thrown weapon" like this would have a very big and easy-to-understand downside, and it's actually one that has already been established in-universe. Richter explained back during the first test that the mana a mage controls/possesses is a protective barrier against attacks, after Lawine tried bluffing about Kanne being able to control the water in his blood. So any mage that "expelled" a significant amount of mana from their bodies to use as an unexpected weapon would essentially leave themselves "armourless" against magical retaliation for a period of time. And we did see Frieren disintegrate her clone in an instant following this invisible attack, so that kind of fits.
However, this explanation does have some problems, not least of which is that it runs afoul of Fern's reaction after being struck: "What happened? Was I attacked? I don't sense any mana.". If she didn't sense any mana, then how could mana be the thing that hit her? Or maybe she just meant that she didn't sense any mana being "fashioned" into a spell in the normal way that is done. And by "normal way", I mean that the mana is consumed by the mage and "imagined" into some magical outcome (like creating a field of flowers, starting a fire, etc). Again, it's the "gun and bullet" analogy. However, that's delving really *deep* into the detailed mechanics of how magic operates in this fictional universe, which I wouldn't be surprised if this story does at some future point. But for the moment we don't know enough to say, so this just remains my own wild speculation.
On a less positive note, the editing and direction during the first few minutes of this episode are quite subpar, which is unfortunate for such a near-legendary episode of television. The previous show ended with Frieren's clone seemingly dying, but then this episode starts immediately with more scenes from the fight and the cliffhanger is resolved off-screen. Upon first watch many viewers - myself included - are more than a little confused. I initially thought the new fight scenes were just a retelling of the battle we'd just watched, and were happening before Fern's attack. All the previous episodes had started with a rehash of the final scenes of the episode before it. It wasn't until the flashback of Frieren telling Fern that Zoltraak wouldn't be enough that the timeline of events became clear, and I understood that the fight was continuing. That flashback should have been seen at the start of the episode, or at least some indication given that the new Frieren vs clone fight sequences came _after_ the attack by Fern. Upon rewatch it's a spectacular sequence of events, but the first impression is definitely hindered by the lack of direction/poor editing choices.
Lastly, since the pattern is well established by now, I think it's pretty clear that Sense's clone has some of the pacifist personality traits of the original Sense. Every single person she damages (Richter, Lawine, Mr. Blei, and Edel) only gets incapacitated and forced to withdraw from the dungeon. That seems like too much of a coincidence, since she could have easily been much more deadly if she chose to.
Magic is about visualization.
So my pet theory is Frieren attack is her "visualization" like literally.
She makes her pushing by just seeing it. Since seeing doesn't emit mana then the attack doesn't emit mana either. But note that doesn't emit ≠ doesn't require
@@gangsarisworo3759 That's an interesting idea. But it doesn't quite fit with what we see from the show. There is no significant drawback to "just _see_ someone as being pushed and it happens" that I can think of. I mean, why does Frieren only use it as a last resort? If I had that ability, I'd start most fights by visualizing my opponent being knocked over, and then disable them instantly without any risk or effort.
There needs to be some weakness or vulnerability inherent in the "undetectable spell", like a long casting time, or an unavoidable dropping of the mage's defenses, etc, to match with how rare it is used in the show.
My theory on Frieren's Height of Magic spell is a localized rewriting of the laws of nature. Something like changing the direction and strength of gravity. In this theory, Frieren's mana is not being directed at Fern directly, which would be why she does not sense it or that the spell is an attack. I think this meets your conditions in that the world does not seem to have a high level of scientific understanding, so would likely not be able to sufficiently visualize how to do it; for the second, the spells main benefit would be that it is not detected by normal means, but is either imprecise or something that can be overcome if the target realizes what is happening (it also provides a huge opening to attack her, presumably taking a lot of concentration).
It would be a fitting spell for Frieren, since it fits her past tactics of surprising her foes by having them underestimate her strength.
@@RoryMitchell00 I doubt your theory is correct. If you want to know why, check manga Frieren vs Solitar fight.
@@RoryMitchell00I just want to add that you'd open a fight with a unique OP ability. Frieren wouldn't. Frierens whole strategy relies on enemies underestimating her and it'd be silly to show your whole hand when basic attack and basic defense "is enough to beat mages of this era"
I adore the layers to the statement that "defensive magic is for blocking spells". She knows the spell, understands how and why it works, and trusts it to work, of course she can't cut through a spell like that. It's supposed to work.
It's also mentioned by Qual that the defensive spell attunes itself to the mana and disperses the attacks, or something like that.
But on the flip side, would Übel be able to cut through the spell if she wasn't as intimately familiar with it (unlikely considering how ingrained it is in their modern systemized magic)?
Alternatively, would her own defensive spell casting suffer if she was somewhat convinced she could cut through it? Would compartmentalization make it a non-issue?
Btw, the smoke surrounding Frieren's copy after the OP, before it created the black hole, was from Fern blasting her at the end of last episode.
imho, Ubel can't imagine cutting through unfamiliar matter out of nowhere. Especially since defense magic isn't even matter, but rather some kind of force field. Anything she cuts - she's seen it in real life, heard the actual sound of cutting, so it's easy for her to imagine.
I think Frieren telling Fern she underestimates her is more of a subtle way of saying Fern exceeds her expectations. A different way of expressing it directly to your student without inflating her ego.
32:39 I take it that this attack was something like a curse. Remember back to that episode with the plant? Frieren only felt that she was attacked somehow and I don't remember if Fern felt anything at all. So clearly there is a kind of mana that is so alien to humans and elfs that you don't even really recognize it. But it seems Frieren is capable of at least on of those spells that don't even register as magic for other people.
Good reaction guyths! Love how you guys truly enjoy Frueren as well as pay attention. It's rare. 💕💕💕
thank you so much for your sweet comment :’) john and i truly love this series so much and it means so much to us that you are enjoying watching with us !!
This is actually why Sense in my favorite 1st class mage. yes she makes the test even harder because of the clone and not helping as well, but its an exam, so expect it to be hard and She provided a golem for you to use in an emergency. its a gesture of "If you fail today, you can try again later" unlike the other ones who just go "you died? too bad"
30:23 The Frieren clone really hates people who use autoclickers.
I love Kim. She's cool!
"Then you should cut it." is such a line that the author came up with early on and was just WAITING to use it lol. So badass.
The height of magic is a spell so advanced that fern cant even recognize what it is, because shes never seen this before. I like that to beat Frieren it took another frieren and fern together to take her out, It shows how far Frieren is still is from Fern.
Lmao, I love the batman frieren at the start dude!
✨ Yes! If you love Frieren, you're gonna love Violet Evergarden as well as The Flower We Saw That Day! 💕
About the height of magic question: notice how they emphasize “magic is the world of visualization” not a single mention of mana. My theory is that the attack Frieren used is pure visualization. She pushed fern back to that wall through sheer will alone. Most spells follow the equation “Visualization + mana =effect” but this attack is just “visualization = effect” which is why Fern couldn’t detect it as an attack nor could she detect any mana from it.
It might be something unique to frieren alone, same thing with demons and goddess with their magic; you don't really understand the science behind them, so I think it must be an elf thing.
I disagree
There's a similar idea in the Eragon fantasy book series, that it's possible to cast spells completely bypassing the system of magic. The casting system is there to help control your intent and feelings and translate them into a consistent spell. It's possible to just bypass the process and put your intent into magic without the casting ritual, but no one ever does it because it's almost impossible to control. It's a cool idea. Could be a similar thing happening here
linked with ubel visualization
@@EmanatorofIX precisely! There’s a reason both of these instances happened very close with each other. It’s the same concept but in different magnitudes
This is easily one of my favorite episodes in all anime.
Practically every second of Frieren and Fern vs. Frieren is packed with information and character bits.
It opens with both Frierens simultaneously moving their staffs to find an opening and altering their defensive matrix to cover the opponent's firing line. Fern's first Zoltraak strikes the clone within the mana blindness window - it had to, because the clone reacted to the spell but couldn't tell where it came from, so it had to resort to an omnidirectional shield that was less mana efficient. The black beam the clone fires at Frieren is specifically the original Zoltraak, the one that Qual shot at Fern - Frieren prefers the demon-killing version she crafted, but is still perfectly capable of using the one that was tuned to kill humans. Frieren's estimation of Fern being faster on the draw than her is spot-on; the clone not only gets one arm blown off by a cheap shot, but when it spins around to respond, Fern has already cast the spell that takes the other arm off, then follows up with a paralyzing volley. Frieren has been seen using some variation, usually a stronger one, of practically every other examinee's magic at some point in the series, but especially here - Jilwer speeds, Reelseiden cutting, Waldgose wind, Daosdorg fire, etc. On top of that, her arsenal includes many spells that are far beyond what anyone has cast yet, such as cosmic spells and ones that look distinctly dark and cursed - at one point, it looks like reality is starting to crack. She may find joy in collecting simple household cleaning spells, but she clearly has found and probably developed far more than just that in all her years.
The final spell the clone uses, what Fern calls the height of magic, is truly the ultimate attack despite seeming like the most mundane of them all. A simple force-push. But it strikes without warning, seemingly doesn't utilize mana, completely shuts down its target, and can't even be understood to be a form of attack. Magic is imagination made real, and mages that can't internalize the idea that a phenomenon is magic renders them completely unable to respond. It's akin to an assassin infiltrating an enemy camp and silently picking everyone off without ever raising the alarm - you can't fight off an attack that you don't know is happening. And forget a staff, Frieren doesn't need either of her damn arms to cast it.
Methode is crazy because not only can she cast Mage spells she can also use the Goddess' magic.
Can you believe it. Glasses guy cloned them and forgot to paint them with colors. Also dont underestimate METHODE!
Regarding Übel vs. Burg: I don't think she was trying to kill Burg, but I also don't think she was trying to avoid killing him. She just hit as hard as she could and assumed Burg could protect himself. Also, fun fact: the aside about Sense's hair being hard to maintain and Übel replying that "you should cut it" is originally the end-of-chapter silly joke panel in the manga, and the anime took that exchange and integrated it into the scene to give Übel a badass finishing line.
As for the "height of magic" that Fern couldn't detect as a spell, the only "undetectable" magic we've seen previously with a similar property is the chaos flower's sleeping curse in Episode 15. Curses are apparently just spells that are beyond the current reckoning of humanity's magic and therefore can't be detected. I don't think Frieren's ability is an actual curse in the same sense as those used by demons or monsters, but it seems undetectable for similar reasons: not because the mana is hidden per se, but because it's in a form that people can't recognize.
Anyway, I don't know if you've already recorded your next reaction, but if not: you should try to predict who's going to pass the next test before watching!
Frieren's "height of magic" spell in my opinion leaves her completely vulnerable and open while being unimaginably powerful. Which is why she only used it once before, 80 years ago.. Speaks to how immensely powerful the Hero party was and Freiren's deep trust in them and their teamwork for her to be comfortable using it against the DK.
Or it was a similar situation where the party was driven to a corner and she trusted the three of them to protect her while she finished off the DK.
She stated they almost lost that fight, she HAD to use It, and yes, as It seem it leaves her completely vulnerable, seems like she needs to stare directly at her target and put all of her attetion focused on it. My guess is the Demon King was bringing them all down at the end as they started to get tired and Frieren in the back was the last one standing, so she had to use this and I guess Himmel, Heiter and Eisen gathered their last strenghs to kill him. I don't think It was about trust, but about It being her last resort, I'm not saying she didn't trusted them, she said herself she trusted them more than they trusted themselves, what I mean is that using that was not part of any plan, and when she used It the rest of the party was surely taken by surprise because she never talked about It ever, but in the end they acted and resolved the situation because that was their way, always focused on objectives.
Ubel is that character that have such presence of make anything uncomfortable or unnerving.
Fieren's 'force attack' is actually explained earlier in the anime. In this episode, Fern says she can't recognize it as a spell. When was this used before? When Frieren described curses. 'A magic that lies outside the human magic system and therefore can't be understood. It's Frieren's curse. Another explanation and addition for this, is that every mage, apart from Serie, has a specialty. One might assume that Frieren doesn't since she's so old, and therefore, good at many of them. But i believe, based on what we've seen in season one with how she always collects a variety of spells and is very good at analyzing them; even disassembling Serie's ward within a day, as well as dispelling Aura's curse on demand in their last battle (something that no one has been able to do before). Frieren's specialty is Meta magic, and she has weaponized it into a curse that no one else understands.
A few episodes back, when a curse put everyone to sleep aside from Sein, Frieren said that curses are magic that humanity doesnt understand, and because of that, they can't feel it affecting their bodies. Fern said that she didn't recognize Frieren's attack as a spell, is something so advanced that is like a curse to Fern
26:20 I love how she gets some subtle stuff all the time
I Saw a couple of other reactions and they completelly miss that Frieren was referring the Demon King. Fern is a beast.
It's amazing that never in anytime Fern felt fear for Frieren only respect from her powers until that pushed that almost killed her. The fear that she never knew Frieren deeply when it comes to fighting.
Ive had a theory since I saw these late episodes that the magic schools and institutions in Frieren's world are actually probably holding back magic. They've managed to create a way to teach people magic well enough, so you might get more mages out of it, but it probably holds back the ceiling because they are teaching "rules". Once you learn a rule, your imagination of what magic is holds it back. Ubel was self taught. I dont think she has any image of rules that magic must abide by.
Now remembering that ubel's spell explaination was in this episode is really fitting. i feel its trying to say that ubel has reached the pinnacle of magic. Evenmoreso knowing her latest uses of magic in the manga (not in a power sense but in a context sense.)
I open youtube and this is the first thing i see recommended. I love it.
yay :) !! thank you so much for watching with us !
Here is my head canon on Frierens Ultima: Normaly you form a mental image in your mind, project it on your mana while that is flowing outwards to form an effect in the physical world. Frierens "spell" draws her mana into her mindspace to project the image directly onto the world. It´s like the difference between an object traveling from A to B and the object quantum-tunneling between both points, which would need much more energy (Don´t quote me on that one, i´m not a physicist)
Frieren was so powerful that she was using her mana not to attack but to control the laws of nature in the room.
My theory is that since everyone in Frierens world has mana, and the function of spells for mages and priests is to help them visualize their mana doing something, that what Frieren was doing is just bypassing the pre designed spell path and through visualization and pure will, using her mana to strike out.
Remember when Flamme first rescued Frieren from her village, and they were ambushed by the three powerful demons that Flamme promptly vaporized along with the hill they stood on? I suspect that was not a spell, but Flamme directly pouring her mana into an effect (explode) instead of a defined spell. I think that’s also why Frieren was in wide-eyed astonishment. She already knew that Flamme was much stronger, but she was seeing mana used in a fashion she had never imagined.
I think THIS was the magic Flamme was actually referring too when speaking to Frieren at the end of her life and counseling Frieren to remain hidden in order to grow strong enough to defeat the demon king and that the ability to directly use one’s mana without a spell is the height of magic.
As for Fern not detecting mana in the attack, if you remember the village beset by the monster plant draining everyones mana and slowly killing them. That magic was referred to as a “curse”, mainly because it’s mechanism was unknown, but it was using mana and Frieren could feel she was under attack but that was all. I suspect Flammes attack on the three demons on the hill and clone Frierens on Fern would almost fall into that category and thus be undetectable and devastating when used by a mage as powerful as Flamme, Frieren, or maybe Fern someday now that she saw Frierens clone attack. ( The last isn’t a spoiler, just pure theory since the author seems to employ “harmonizing” repeating story themes.)
A complete guess
WTF are you even talking about lol? Haha Control the laws of Nature? When did she do that? Frieren doesn't even have that level of Power. Just don't get surprised when you see her getting no diffed by human warriors later down the line
@@Greymist73curses are said to be spells that humanity has yet to understand AND that either PETRIFY the target or put the target to SLEEP. Flamme and Frieren's spells are therefore not curses.
The "I underestimate you" comment, as I understand it, also means, "you always surpass my expectations."
As for Ubel and the proctor, I think she killed him on purpose and the , "Oops, I cut too deep," was a smartass comment. Her superhero/villian name should be The Barber.
Explicit also a point, maybe someone wondered why Ubel was not arrested or what after the killing of the examiner.
This is inherent in the unspoken: the exam tests put both examiner and examinees in the same environment (in the first test we see Sense pull out the umbrella after the barrier is destroyed).
So just as examinees can die during the trials (the team killed meeting Denken) and the magic association is not prosecuted, examiners can also die in rare cases, so we are limited to the rejection of those who kill the examiner.
Richter was saying "Who are you?" to the guy that just arrived on the golem. It was the guy that went in first thinking he could solo the second test, A NOBODY LMAO!
To give TL;DR context as to why Frieren clone is hard to kill:
The only window they get to hit her is if she does not detect your magic, because it's "slightly" delayed in Frieren's perspective, of course the clone has this as well.
If you see Frieren block a spell with full shield on, it means you force her to use a great amount of mana to protect herself, regardless of the spell's strength, which speaks volumes to Fern's ability to force Frieren to block by instinct
fern being blown into a wall suddenly triggered memories from *that* jojo scene
In season 2 or maybe 3 you will see Ubel in action. You will not forget what she is capable to pull out.
what i got from frierin underestimating fern is that frierin still sees fern as the little kid she first met, like parents who still see a little kid in their children even if their children is strong
At 8:52 I love the detail of the Frieren clone doing the defensive sphere because she can't detect where Fern's attack is coming from
One cool detail is that the Zoltrak that you see cast by clone Frieren is black. Same as Zoltrak from the demon used in Episode 3. Lugner mentioned that what Fern used cannot be considered Zoltrak... and that's because the Zoltrak demons used - the black Zoltrak - is human-killing magic, and the Zoltrak Fern/Frieren use is demon-killing magic.
the way Ubels scene and Frieren are kind of interlinked tells you about Ubels ability.
Surprisingly, not many people get the connection. Ubel, Sein, and Frieren has something in common and I'll give it to you to discover 🤐
"Magic can't create anything the caster can't visualize perfectly."
So Frieren can visualize all of the spells she's casting? Like the galaxy dimension shattering spell thing she does to create the opening? Or the chibaku tensei/exploding meteor attack her clone does at the beginning?
Sheesh
Generally true, except "chibaku tensei" doesn't create an accretion disk. But a black hole does. So yes, Frieren is capable of imagining and visualizing a freaking singularity.
i had not considered this til now
Magic is a world of imagination
The HEIGHT of magic..is just imagination.
Yes, but the downside of this almighty push is that you have to focus on one subject and forget about the rest
just like ubel speciality
It's actually still magic. Notice how there is a magic circle under clone-Frieren's feet. A magic circle different from Zoltraak or any others we've seen. It's just magic that Fern can't understand. It's akin to how some demonic/monster magic can't be detected by humanity and is categorized as curses.
Frieren is always looking for the "mythical" spells like Sour Grapes, Warm Tea, I think is because she already knows all the God tier break the Universal dimension "stuff"
Regarding Serie's comments on Frieren's possible death, Serie said:
Anime Season 1 Episode 25 around 21;57-22;07 (Crunchyroll Subs): "IF anyone kills you, it will be either the Demon King or a human mage."
Manga Chapter 53 Page 17 Panels 3-4:
Official TL by VIZ: "IF you are ever to be killed, it will be by the Demon King or a human mage."
Unofficial TL by Kirei Cake: "IF there is anyone who might kill you, it would either be the Demon King or a human mage."
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However, for an IF statement to be true, it doesn't necessarily mean that the antecedent is true (ie, Frieren may never be killed by anyone and the statement would still be true).
I love that Frieren falls for three mimics within just a few feet. You can see two more dead ones besides the mimic actively chewing on her.
Remember when the silly elf was collecting spells to make warm tea and clean statues? That's because she already had ones to break reality.
i love this fight because we see countless offensive spells being thrown around between Frieren and her clone but she only taught Fern Zoltraak. 😘👌🏼
been waiting for this one
RIP Burg. Bro was too confident
Ubel seems like an interesting mage, unlike normal mages she learns spells by understanding another mage rather than reading a grimoir, and in doing so she avoids learning the constraints or strengths of other spells. Since magic is constrained by visualization, and her imagination is not constrained by learned rules, she has a lot of potential. Probably something related to the height of magic Frieren used.
Frieren underestimates Fern because she still thinks of her as that little girl at Heiter's cabin.
29:00
There's a very important distinction here. Fern did not say she "didn't recognize it as mana." She didn't perceive it as a spell. If you think of a spell as a way to transform mana into something else, then what Fern got hit with was PURE MANA. That's basically antithetical to what a mage is.
On the final spell the Frieren clone used against Fern it shows the active magic circle under the clone so the spell is affecting it likely giving it immense telekenetic power so what hit Fern wasn't magic in itself just physical force. The fact it could use it without arms shows there are things Frieren can do without even using them.
Remember that Frieren UNDER-estimating Fern still amounts to "my 17-year-old student is good enough to stand among the 50 strongest mages in the world." It's not like she withholds praise - it's just that no matter how good she thinks Fern is, Fern still manages to impress her.
Also, re: Ubel, if you go back to episode 18 when Falsch and Sense are introducing some of the new characters, you'll notice that Ubel and Sense briefly make eye contact and Sense is visibly distressed.
You can count off with binary, but the teamwork counting seems more fun
22:43 guys did you not watch the previous episode? they literally spelt it out, that the spiegel's core was behind the door that Frieren's clone was guarding.
Notice how Frieren is constantly trying to lift up Ferns mentality of being able to beat her. Because one has to be able to imagine beating their opponents if they stand even a sliver of chance.
I think you guys are the only ones reacting to this who understood the thing about Frieren underestimating her, that then also the replica is underestimating her. All other reactions of this fight I've seen seems to miss that point.