Agreed. It took much too long to dump the halyard... and then it seemed to snarl half way down. With rocks that close I'd likely have cut it - line is cheaper than a keel repair! The helmsman then had a chance to tack away from the rocks at 2:00 but blew that - appears he was busy watching the sail go down the hatch. Not a good day... glad they didn't lose the boat by fouling the prop.
Good plan ;-) I expect they were shy of using the engine until they were VERY sure all those loose lines were properly aboard. This would have gone MUCH worse if they caught a spinnaker sheet around the prop shaft and couldn't back away from the rocks. It did take a LONG time to dump the halyard and the sail down to the water. May have snarled, or the clutch may have jammed under the load. Keeping a wrap on the winch to aid clutch release and a knife next to the spin halyard is good practice.
We did the same thing in the ISORA race week in the late seventies in "Prospect of Puffin" Flying the spinnaker in a force 5 off Holyhead, Anglesey. It takes only a second or two to do the damage. We did not run aground but did make the front page photo on 'Yachts and Yachting" that week. With all that adrenaline flowing you can imagine the party that evening after the race. Happy days indeed.
@GeorgieWorgiey Yeah, it looked like they weren't able to keep the boat dead down wind enough to keep the kite from starting a downward spiral swing. An over correction was a knee jerk reaction when maybe some better placed crew weight (spread out on both sides of the boat) may have helped with the balance. Also, they could have trimmed in the main to depower first.
SF Bay. The winds are consistent and strong. Double reef'd yesterday 27-35kt. One mistake and this is the result. Sometimes doesn't even take that. Strong current, swirling gusts.
What would've happened if the skipper turned more aggressively during the first (controlled) gybe? To me, it looks as if he was trying to do an "S-Gybe", but anticipated it and pushed the tiller to port prematurely?
Uncontrolled gybe? Yup, we've all done that and it was bad luck theirs was caught on camera. They don't deserve a hard time for that at all. Their recovery was not great though. Why dump the halyard first? Nearly always better to let a sheet fly (it's why spin sheets should never have a stopper knot on the end) and take the power from the sail that way. They seemed to be clustered around something in the cockpit so giving them the benefit of the doubt, perhaps the sheets had become jammed? Running aground was totally avoidable though, that was a crap bit of skippering.
The entire disaster could probably be avoided with better boom vang control as is often the case in this kind of gybe. Final note: if you need to urgently start the engine, checklist that its seacock is open. This engine appeared to be running dry as it bore away at the end.
At 13 seconds, when the guy drops from the jaws of the pole the clue flies out around the fore stay; that's because the skipper was not sailing deep enough. Also, the sail was too high and full, the twing should have been on full.
I agree. If the skipper had taken the wind out of the sail before he told the guy on the pole to release it, the sail would have folded easier. Then let go of the halyard and it's down and in the bag. But I don't know what a double reef spinnaker drop is?
Took a wrap on a winch with the chute out in the same water, wound up breaking the spinnaker pole against the shrouds. Fire drills are common in them waters...
Me: While rounding a leeward mark, we lost control of the Spinnaker. The deckhand released the guy from the pole early and which might be what we see here in this video. Then, while we were laid over, the cockpit crew assigned to the halyard (it was lead aft to a cabin top cleat) let that go! We turned a wild and fully ballooned Spinnaker into a fully deployed sea anchor. I thought; "What to do? What to do?" What we did was: 1: Release the Spinnaker Sheet and pull the sea anchor in on one clew. A slow process. You would think it would empty easily. No. 2: Not being able to fall off the gale force winds with the boom in the water, a deckhand was sent to crawl forward and ready the working jib. (The race was no longer a top priority. I needed steerage. We were headed into a mooring field and the helm was dry as often as not.) As soon as the Spinnaker was in, the jib went up providing some balance and eventually I could bear off and actually... sail! So, "stuff" happens. And it happens fast, right?
Great lessons here. Hindsight is 20/20 of course, but shouldn’t we all learn from this? Curious what you experienced sailors think of this idea for tacking over to port tack to avoid going aground. 1) De-power the spinnaker by massively easing the sheet, and maybe even lowering the pole to tighten the luff. 2) Release vang to de-power the main. 3) Helm hard to port (preparing to back the stern to port to effect the tack). 4) Sheet the main amidship to bring the bow into the wind. 5) Back the main to starboard to help the stern swing to port, until the boat tacks. 6) As soon as the boat tacks slightly the spinnaker will backwind and cause the bow to fall off to starboard. 7) Ease main sheet to help fall off. 8) Blow the afterguy and haul down the spinnaker from the clew. 9) Broad reach away from the lee shore. Would this work??
It looks like either the main sheet, traveller or vang was fouled and they couldn't, or just didn't, release them, since the boom never budged after the (accidental) gybe. If they could have allowed the boom to move farther out on the port side, they could have let the main flog, raised a jib, and at least stopped their forward movement so they wouldn't have grounded. Besides that, the spinnaker halyard wasn't dropped quickly enough, which would have helped them regain control sooner.
hmm so what should they have done to make a more controlled jibe? Bring the sheet in more to keep the chute from pulling the rig down? I looks like they pulled the pole and said "uhh shit what should we do now?"
In those conditions it's hard to control a chute to begin with; but if they're going to try to fly one I wouldn't attempt a jibe without dual spinnaker poles, and I'd be winching the main sheet in until the boom end is inboard, THEN execute the spinnaker jibe with the dual poles first , jibe the main and let it out quickly.
A little too Expeditious. Got their spinnaker under control and off the grounding, but with a line trailing astern. Hope it doesn't catch the prop or rudder for a third problem.
Yours is the best comment here.... Non of us know the actual How and Why, the Express 37 broached the way that it did.... It's been fun reading and responding to some of the Grand Prix, World Class, better than Olympic......Arm Chair Sailors, that have told everyone exactly How and Why everything happened the way that it did..... Good on you for being one of the Smartest Sailors here....
Right on. This boat and crew were Express-37 world champions twice before this incident. The conditions were difficult and all the boats in the class crashed on this gybe. I knew these guys.
Crew is fine. Boat is fine. The only thing that got bruised is some ego. That's a valuable lesson right there. Skipper will hopefully remember it and make more margin for error when using spinnaker. Spinnakers are just like that. Lots of possibilities for trouble and then take a lot of time to clean it up. You always want a margin for error.
I don't have any idea why they were so late to turn on the motor after the broach.. I feel like you put me in that boat single handed and I could release the spinnaker sheet faster and turned on the motor to gain control.. I just don't get it..
Look closely and you will see he had the kicker on very tight. That means as soon as the boom hits the water during a roll,, the whole main sail is forced inboard which makes it heel more and so on. Running with a tight kicker is a killer in all but the lightest breezes. In this case, had they thought to release it at least partially, the whole maneuver would have gone to planCheersRoger
I sure do, If you take a closer look at the video you will see that the top of the main remains hard in which was not able to be released because the boom was being held in by the water. Not only that, the helmsman would have had trouble steering before the incident because having the main set flat and hard like that promotes rolling and also forces the bow down. Kicker or boomvang in downwind will make you go faster but also can render the boat uncontrollable as seen here. The crew need to be aware that the sail needs to twist a little as the conditions demand, but of course the top of the mainsail must not be eased past 90 degrees.
Okay. Wow. That was very educational thanks I honestly did not know most of that. So when you say you should have your kicker in tight while sailing "downwind" do you mean like on a broad reach? Because I thought you wanted to loosen the vang when on a run? Is that not correct?
What I am saying is down wind, both reaching and running, the boat will generally be faster with the vang pulled tight/ the sail un twisted, but the down side of that is that unless you are super lucky, you are liable to have an incident as captured in this video. Therefore at the top mark, if you are in a dinghy for instance, you would have the vang tight, therefore if it is boisterous, the first thig you do is release the vang some, then get the kite up and when you are going, carefully tighten the vang. If the boom is looking like it is going to touch the water, let it the vang off some. If you are on a run and the boat starts rolling release the vang but you will need to compensate at the same time by pulling in the mainsheet so the top of the sail does not go forward of the mast. (I always have a knot in it so that cant happen). You will feel the boat quieten down albeit at some slight sacrifice of speed. When it is time to gybe, even if you have got there with a tight vang, make sure there is some twist in the sail by loosening the vang else you will have a session as shown in the video. With the vang set correctly, gybes will become routine and be nothing to be feared.
This is a very old post but I know these guys and they were two year national champions going into this race. They are very good. I am told that every Express-37 crashed during the gybe here so show a little respect. They just crashed to the beach and the other boats crashed out toward the bay. But they all crashed. It was very windy.
Gabriel S. May I point out that you have replies here from someone who was there and someone who knows the tactician on the boat in this video. You don't always need an article to know what happened if you were there or talk to the people involved. They took second place this year so not such a bad skipper after all. www.yachtscoring.com/event_results_cumulative.cfm?eID=1097 The boat that won this year is owned by the owner of Pineapple sails. Very hard to beat.
bigkiwial They finished second in the 2014 Nationals held in Berkeley. Google them. I believe they were raining national champions when this video was taken and had won the previous two years. Don't criticize them unless you have gybed a spinnaker in 35 knots of wind.
Wat heb je dat geweldig gedaan. Ik vind het perfect engels hoor! Leuk om je zo te zien. En leef met je mee, je moeder zo ziek. Geniet maar zolang het kan
Yes... whoever was on the main sheet. froze. Let it out. Get the boat flat (so the rudder is back in the water) and then continue down wind. Hard to watch.
You get some spectacular runs in strong winds but you need a crew that knows what it is doing in those conditions and someone calling the moves . They needed to release the Vang long before and the sheet as they were wiping out , then when in trouble , the guy , not the halyard . Dumping the halyard just had the spin fill out where you can't reach it . If you release the guy the spin turns into a flag that you can easily pull in by the sheet . In this case because the boat gybed back the sheet was on the pole and the old Guy and sheet on the same side needed to be blown off . then the pole was going to be an issue and would need to be released but the mast guy was out of position . Would have also helped to pull the guy on hard on the sheet side , tweakers if that's what you have before the wipe out and it would have stabilized the boat with the pull more midships . Gets rid of the death roll the driver tried to steer out of and overcompensated . Fore deck pulled off the gybe , the guys in the back blew it . If the vang had been let off the boat would not have been held down and they would have been able to turn down . Instead the main was over powered and they could not , vang off the boom would have risen and the top of the main would dump the wind . The vang was the root problem but the driver also over-corrected trying to avoid a broach on the other gybe . Anyway , been there done that both on the fore deck and driving , you learn from experience .
The genius onlookers have the best advice: "just get the jib up and get out of there". Whoever said that must be a sailing prodigy and not a ditz at all.
My thoughts exactly she sounds like an arrogant bitch. First the racism, then the putdowns, and then the glee of someone else's peril. All as she sits indoors, dry and in comfort - she is just so happy she "got the shot in full frame".
I am very inexperienced at sailing, but shouldn't the crew have let the mainsail boom out to leeward at the start of the problem to stop so much leeward drift?
The captain seems like he got caught up in the racing, and lost his situational awareness. Specifically, he got way too close to shore as they were retrieving the spin. He is very lucky that they did not wrap the line around the prop as they power out after running aground. You can see the line wrapping under the port side as the boat is finally freed..
Ooops. That went from good (the initial run) to the bad (the gybe and resultant kite drop) to the ugly (nearly touching the bottom on a lee shore). Not nice.
when they were heading for the rocks could they use the engine on reverse at full speed?....and why took so long for them to bring down the main sail?...just asking.
I am not racer , just a casual sailer , considering the closeness of running aground , I would have dropped the spin much faster , reff the main immediately , and if it is still obvious that I will run a ground , start the engine . 1. they had plenty of people to take care of the vessel . 2. being disqualified for starting the engine , is far cheaper than running aground .
They had lines over the side which could foul the prop when you put it in gear and might even pull the cutlass strut (if they have one) off the boat...
Why didn't the large boat Miss Farralone offer a tow out rather than just cruise by? This would have prevented them running aground. Does the good samaritan law not apply to the bay?
I own and sail a 12ft dinghy and I've crewed on a 31 ft yacht. It is very different. Here, the boat is racing with every scrap of sail, and it becomes overpowered. As the boat heels, the rudder loses its grip on the water and the stern swings round as the boat pivots around the keel. (Called broaching, and very nasty.) Broaching is like sliding off a motorcycle on a bend: if you're racing near to the limit, it will happen sooner later, but if you're just taking it steady, you can avoid using too much power and usually avoid the situation. The boat is then sideways onto the waves and the sails are pushing it over. They could have cut the spinnaker sheets but they opted to try to retrieve it without causing damage. While that spinnaker was flying, it was pulling the bow down wind. The boat had no forward momentum and therefore could not be steered. If they had tried to get some speed up in order to tack, they would have been heading towards shallow water in order to do so. As the waves reach the shore, they pile up. When the top of a wave goes one way, the bottom of the wave (below the surface) is going the other (a wave is a circular motion of water) and the keel becomes a problem, like a handle that the sea can use to shake the boat from side to side. The best option from a saving the boat point of view was probably to drop the mainsail, start the engine, and gain some sea room. However, this is a sailing race, so the engine can't be used without disqualification. Option two was probably to drop the mainsail, hoist a standard jib, turn down wind then try to gain some sea room. On a Pico, you can turn the boat through the eye of the wind by pushing the boom upwind by hand. That's not as easy on a big yacht like this!
@@mikefule from my experience on bigger yachts you never ever try to take down your symmetrical spinnaker down going down wind especially if the weathers bad because it will end up like this video.You depower it by going into the no go zone and you take it down there.
@@leftvassis I'll bow to your greater experience in how to depower a spinnaker without broaching. However, in the video, he simply broaches because he's overpowered and all the attempts to get the spinnaker down are later, which is what I was trying to explain. :)
I realy don't understand what the guy on the steraring wheel was doing. after they got the spinaker on board i would inmediately stear the boat into the wind.
+flierefluiter johnny The chinese gybe rounded the boat close to the wind when the rudder pulled from the water. Then after the spin was back in the boat, knowing how close the beach was, he must have wanted to tack to starboard through the wind. But with no forward speed, he was in irons and would have had no response to the rudder. Then an attempt to fall off to port was complicated by weather helm and no balancing jib force to complete the turn. It may seem easy to get out of this situation but I think the safe exit would be tricky for even the best sailors. As several have mentioned, a reach for the motor with all those lines in the water could have been a disaster, too.
*Aground* Their keel has struck the bottom, where Davy Jones lives and lots of little crabbies scuttle about. That's why the boat is stationary for the next few mins...
@@End_Domestic_Violence Hi there, with all do respect, first of all they should reef the sails way before, especially because it seems to me the crew wasn't prepared for that kind of wind, second they fail to keep the boat poiting to the wind to prevent acciental jibe, wich happened, the boat spunaround, tird so if it wasn't bad enougth, the boat runaout of ground ( water) and as seen stuck by the keel. Now I ask you where you dind't see the stooges?
@@paulolodicora4471 Very long time ago but these guys were world champions in their class for two years. I am told that every boat in the class crashed trying that gybe that year. I found this video when trying to explain what can happen with a spinnaker to a friend. The video I was looking for is gone. I think this is the original. I have raced against these guys (in an L-36 class race) and they are good.
@@L-36 First of all, it's a pleasure to have you in my review, but let me tell you this, they made everything weird, maybe they've improved now. Greetings from Brazil.
@@paulolodicora4471 Haha. Thanks for the reply. I don't know if they improved. as I lost touch after this. They were world champions before this video was filmed.
+Jeremy Swanson If you start the engine with the spinnacre in the water, you probably end up with a rope in the propeller and a far worse situation. There is no point starting the engine before you have sorted out the situation. I believe though, that they ran aground because they were so focused on taking care of the sails, that they didn't notice how close they were to the shore. There was plenty of time to stear away while they were finishing picking up the sail from the water.
"Get the jib up and turn around"? WTF, how do hoist a jib when you crew is retrieving your kite, in big breeze. This is obviously Corinthian racing, they were lucky no one was killed.
Actually the pole is square. Maybe the skipper needed to be sailing a deeper angle prior to the jibe. Also maybe the tweeker should have been on full. That sail was awfully high and full. Should have been lower and flatter.
what Id like to know is how a 16 girl (jessica watson) can sail around the world and not put a scratch on her boat but all these guys had such a hard time with manuver
I notice they always show sailors hot dogging it in San Fransisco bay. San Fransisco sailors brag about how much more wind they have then Southern CA. Yea, well, what ever? Lake Superior where I'm from can completely wipe out San Fran bay without even trying. Of course no sane person would sail Superior in high winds. Even 30,000 ton ships are no match for Superior when its angry!
"Chinese gybe": said with such confidence by one with so little knowledge. A Chinese gybe involves the lower part of the main gybing whilst the upper part remains on the same tack. This was not a Chinese gybe.
I've also seen it defined as rolling the boat to windward, crash gybing and wiping out by rounding up after the gybe, like in these videos/articles. th-cam.com/video/huKIDygg264/w-d-xo.html. www.sailbetter.com/chinese-gybes-and-how-to-avoid-them/. Dinghies tip to windward and flip over. On a keelboat, the keel makes the boat gybe instead of leaving the boom sticking up out of the water with the crew in the water. Not saying it isn't when the top of the main gybes and the bottom doesn't. Just saying there are people who define it as a "death roll" too.
Worst boat handling I've ever seen. This skipper needs to get some training before he tries to race again. As skipper, I've taken a knockdown with a spinnaker that put the mast head in the water in a sudden summer squall. My crew and I kept our cool, squared away the boat, never started the engine and finished the race. It was a team race and we won because, although I finished last, others dropped out and my boat scored higher for my team. In another incident, as crew to a very green captain, we were late in getting the spinnaker down before such a knock and I went forward to help get the spinnaker down. We got a knock that sent me into the life-lines, breaking five ribs. I and the crew continued and got the spinnaker under control, took the time to clear all overboard lines BEFORE we started the engine ( this crew leaves the area with engine running and one line (at least one ) still trailing overboard.) If it gets into the prop, they'll be on those rocks pretty quick. BTW, we started the engine because the race was abandoned. In a third incident we were at a start and a squall came in before the gun. One of my friendly competitors took a picture of my boat under a double reefed main and then one of his Annonemeter reading 60 knots! With experience and a little savvy, it is not that hard.
Nicht so schlimm. Kein MOB (Mann über Bord), keine Verletzten, kein Materialschaden. Etwas die Kontrolle verloren, OK. Der Spy hätte etwas schneller "abgeworfen" werden sollen. Dann als er zum Spybaum fiel (bei 13 Sek). Dank der "Maschine" auch nicht im Legerwall aufgelaufen. Bei 3.12 kommt wahrscheinlich das Boot von der Rennleitung um ein Auflaufen zu verhindern, was gar nie der Fall war. So schlecht haben es die Jungs der Skipper (und die Rennleitung) gar nicht gemacht. Not so bad. No MOB (man overboard), no dies, no material damage. l. The Spynacker should been "down" a little faster. Then when the Spyboum lost the Spinacker (at 13 sec). with the "machine" back and not in the Legerwall. At 3.12, the boat come to help. Its specatular bat not bad done - the skipper and the crew.
Tough conditions, but this is what happens when you do not keep both barber haulers well tight and the spinnaker as flat and steady as possible. The coordination of the crew is also unremarkable and the helmsman is a bit uncertain on where to steer the boat during the jibe. Finally, this is not the way you let the main change tack in strong winds. The owner was lucky that the mast remained in one piece, the boat was still fast when the pole hit the water.
mistakes are made by everyone, how ever much experience you have. thankfully no one was hit by the boom while she jibed could have made things a lot worse.
Ahh this can happen to any crew that is not trained. The spinnaker sheets are too loose (especially the starboard) and suddenly you have a spinnaker out of control after the jibe. I think we all been there at some point... props for pulling up the spinnaker in windy conditions! And yes, no one hurt by boom!
True stuff can happen to anyone and usually will at the worst possible time, its what you do when things do go wrong that counts for the safety of your crew, your boat and yourself
It sure happens but the difference is providing the leadership and clear thinking to ensure the overall safety of the crew, boat and myself. If you cant provide that leadership then you shouldnt be the skipper
+justininvestor > what Id like to know is how a 16 girl (jessica watson) can sail around the > world and not put a scratch on her boat but all these guys had such a > hard time with manuver Actually, the very first thing Jessica Watson did after setting sail from Australia was collide with a container ship (and had to come back to make repairs). Running aground, or hitting another boat is something that can happen very quickly on the water. ( www.news.com.au/national/jessica-watson-warned-after-collision-do-not-sail/story-e6frfkwr-1225779759097 )
Agreed. It took much too long to dump the halyard... and then it seemed to snarl half way down. With rocks that close I'd likely have cut it - line is cheaper than a keel repair! The helmsman then had a chance to tack away from the rocks at 2:00 but blew that - appears he was busy watching the sail go down the hatch. Not a good day... glad they didn't lose the boat by fouling the prop.
Good plan ;-) I expect they were shy of using the engine until they were VERY sure all those loose lines were properly aboard. This would have gone MUCH worse if they caught a spinnaker sheet around the prop shaft and couldn't back away from the rocks.
It did take a LONG time to dump the halyard and the sail down to the water. May have snarled, or the clutch may have jammed under the load. Keeping a wrap on the winch to aid clutch release and a knife next to the spin halyard is good practice.
All they had to do was release either sheet, but guessing they had knots tied in the ends.
We did the same thing in the ISORA race week in the late seventies in "Prospect of Puffin" Flying the spinnaker in a force 5 off Holyhead, Anglesey. It takes only a second or two to do the damage. We did not run aground but did make the front page photo on 'Yachts and Yachting" that week. With all that adrenaline flowing you can imagine the party that evening after the race. Happy days indeed.
@GeorgieWorgiey Yeah, it looked like they weren't able to keep the boat dead down wind enough to keep the kite from starting a downward spiral swing. An over correction was a knee jerk reaction when maybe some better placed crew weight (spread out on both sides of the boat) may have helped with the balance. Also, they could have trimmed in the main to depower first.
Class40 sailing strong
I never laugh at another sailor's mistakes or errors. I believe it gets you back later on the water. I'm glad this person is not my wife.
Really stupid mistakes
@Johan Tate Time to put an end to these spammers. You boys are annoying at with your scams
It looks like 2 - 3 guys on key posts had never experienced a broach before and they froze instead of acting.
SF Bay. The winds are consistent and strong. Double reef'd yesterday 27-35kt. One mistake and this is the result. Sometimes doesn't even take that. Strong current, swirling gusts.
Strong wind. It happens
What would've happened if the skipper turned more aggressively during the first (controlled) gybe? To me, it looks as if he was trying to do an "S-Gybe", but anticipated it and pushed the tiller to port prematurely?
Uncontrolled gybe? Yup, we've all done that and it was bad luck theirs was caught on camera. They don't deserve a hard time for that at all. Their recovery was not great though. Why dump the halyard first? Nearly always better to let a sheet fly (it's why spin sheets should never have a stopper knot on the end) and take the power from the sail that way. They seemed to be clustered around something in the cockpit so giving them the benefit of the doubt, perhaps the sheets had become jammed? Running aground was totally avoidable though, that was a crap bit of skippering.
The entire disaster could probably be avoided with better boom vang control as is often the case in this kind of gybe. Final note: if you need to urgently start the engine, checklist that its seacock is open. This engine appeared to be running dry as it bore away at the end.
Where is the barberhauler on thé starboard sheet. ?????!!!!!!!!!
At 13 seconds, when the guy drops from the jaws of the pole the clue flies out around the fore stay; that's because the skipper was not sailing deep enough. Also, the sail was too high and full, the twing should have been on full.
I agree. If the skipper had taken the wind out of the sail before he told the guy on the pole to release it, the sail would have folded easier. Then let go of the halyard and it's down and in the bag. But I don't know what a double reef spinnaker drop is?
Took a wrap on a winch with the chute out in the same water, wound up breaking the spinnaker pole against the shrouds. Fire drills are common in them waters...
Wow, that looked like a wild ride.
Any racing skipper who has never done that, isnt a sailor yet!
LOL, yep, any see something familiar here? #titanic
/ Grazi7,
0
Grazi7
The beast in the bag.
the express 37 needs an additional person on the running backstays, when they jibed the main the old runner stayed on not allowing the boom to release
@@paulharris553 Right. Maybe he is referring to some modified unit with square top main...
Express 37s don't have running backstays. They do have check stays which control mast bend upwind.
I will be happy to have this experience. If you think this never happen to you, you are exceptional , smart the best sailor in the world.
It will NEVER happen to me - I don't have a spinnaker.
I have just left amphibia
Me: While rounding a leeward mark, we lost control of the Spinnaker. The deckhand released the guy from the pole early and which might be what we see here in this video. Then, while we were laid over, the cockpit crew assigned to the halyard (it was lead aft to a cabin top cleat) let that go! We turned a wild and fully ballooned Spinnaker into a fully deployed sea anchor. I thought; "What to do? What to do?" What we did was: 1: Release the Spinnaker Sheet and pull the sea anchor in on one clew. A slow process. You would think it would empty easily. No. 2: Not being able to fall off the gale force winds with the boom in the water, a deckhand was sent to crawl forward and ready the working jib. (The race was no longer a top priority. I needed steerage. We were headed into a mooring field and the helm was dry as often as not.) As soon as the Spinnaker was in, the jib went up providing some balance and eventually I could bear off and actually... sail!
So, "stuff" happens. And it happens fast, right?
That was educational but messy.
Great lessons here. Hindsight is 20/20 of course, but shouldn’t we all learn from this? Curious what you experienced sailors think of this idea for tacking over to port tack to avoid going aground. 1) De-power the spinnaker by massively easing the sheet, and maybe even lowering the pole to tighten the luff. 2) Release vang to de-power the main. 3) Helm hard to port (preparing to back the stern to port to effect the tack). 4) Sheet the main amidship to bring the bow into the wind. 5) Back the main to starboard to help the stern swing to port, until the boat tacks. 6) As soon as the boat tacks slightly the spinnaker will backwind and cause the bow to fall off to starboard. 7) Ease main sheet to help fall off. 8) Blow the afterguy and haul down the spinnaker from the clew. 9) Broad reach away from the lee shore. Would this work??
I have abandoned the Disney channel cartoon amphibia
It looks like either the main sheet, traveller or vang was fouled and they couldn't, or just didn't, release them, since the boom never budged after the (accidental) gybe. If they could have allowed the boom to move farther out on the port side, they could have let the main flog, raised a jib, and at least stopped their forward movement so they wouldn't have grounded.
Besides that, the spinnaker halyard wasn't dropped quickly enough, which would have helped them regain control sooner.
It was the spinny that got them into that mess. Letting out the boom could have been dangerous too, I reckon. Plus they're racing so it's all out...
Had to wonder why the spinnaker halyard didn't get loosened earlier. Broachhhhh!
hmm so what should they have done to make a more controlled jibe? Bring the sheet in more to keep the chute from pulling the rig down? I looks like they pulled the pole and said "uhh shit what should we do now?"
In those conditions it's hard to control a chute to begin with; but if they're going to try to fly one I wouldn't attempt a jibe without dual spinnaker poles, and I'd be winching the main sheet in until the boom end is inboard, THEN execute the spinnaker jibe with the dual poles first , jibe the main and let it out quickly.
Actually a decent recovery but the Skipper needs to steer
A little too Expeditious. Got their spinnaker under control and off the grounding, but with a line trailing astern. Hope it doesn't catch the prop or rudder for a third problem.
восемь человек на яхте, а спинакер столько времени болтался, пока не загнали яхту к берегу.
Not a bad job at all. This was extremely challenging. You wont catch me criticizing!
Yours is the best comment here....
Non of us know the actual How and Why, the Express 37 broached the way that it did....
It's been fun reading and responding to some of the Grand Prix, World Class, better than Olympic......Arm Chair Sailors, that have told everyone exactly How and Why everything happened the way that it did.....
Good on you for being one of the Smartest Sailors here....
Right on. This boat and crew were Express-37 world champions twice before this incident. The conditions were difficult and all the boats in the class crashed on this gybe. I knew these guys.
How can you steer strait at the land? Chuck the brace drop halyard, done. how can you not see you are heading to the land????
Crew is fine. Boat is fine. The only thing that got bruised is some ego.
That's a valuable lesson right there. Skipper will hopefully remember it and make more margin for error when using spinnaker.
Spinnakers are just like that. Lots of possibilities for trouble and then take a lot of time to clean it up. You always want a margin for error.
He certainly made a bugger up of that!
No water pulsed by the exhaust event ? You should have recorded 10 more minutes to hear the motor alarm...
I wanna see pictures of what the bottom of that boat looks like after that
I don't have any idea why they were so late to turn on the motor after the broach.. I feel like you put me in that boat single handed and I could release the spinnaker sheet faster and turned on the motor to gain control.. I just don't get it..
Look closely and you will see he had the kicker on very tight. That means as soon as the boom hits the water during a roll,, the whole main sail is forced inboard which makes it heel more and so on. Running with a tight kicker is a killer in all but the lightest breezes. In this case, had they thought to release it at least partially, the whole maneuver would have gone to planCheersRoger
When you say the "kicker" are you referring to the boomvang?
I sure do, If you take a closer look at the video you will see that the top of the main remains hard in which was not able to be released because the boom was being held in by the water. Not only that, the helmsman would have had trouble steering before the incident because having the main set flat and hard like that promotes rolling and also forces the bow down. Kicker or boomvang in downwind will make you go faster but also can render the boat uncontrollable as seen here. The crew need to be aware that the sail needs to twist a little as the conditions demand, but of course the top of the mainsail must not be eased past 90 degrees.
Okay. Wow. That was very educational thanks I honestly did not know most of that. So when you say you should have your kicker in tight while sailing "downwind" do you mean like on a broad reach? Because I thought you wanted to loosen the vang when on a run? Is that not correct?
What I am saying is down wind, both reaching and running, the boat will generally be faster with the vang pulled tight/ the sail un twisted, but the down side of that is that unless you are super lucky, you are liable to have an incident as captured in this video. Therefore at the top mark, if you are in a dinghy for instance, you would have the vang tight, therefore if it is boisterous, the first thig you do is release the vang some, then get the kite up and when you are going, carefully tighten the vang. If the boom is looking like it is going to touch the water, let it the vang off some. If you are on a run and the boat starts rolling release the vang but you will need to compensate at the same time by pulling in the mainsheet so the top of the sail does not go forward of the mast. (I always have a knot in it so that cant happen). You will feel the boat quieten down albeit at some slight sacrifice of speed. When it is time to gybe, even if you have got there with a tight vang, make sure there is some twist in the sail by loosening the vang else you will have a session as shown in the video. With the vang set correctly, gybes will become routine and be nothing to be feared.
Thanks a lot. This helps. I'll employ these tactics tomorrow when I take the boat out!
This is a very old post but I know these guys and they were two year national champions going into this race. They are very good. I am told that every Express-37 crashed during the gybe here so show a little respect. They just crashed to the beach and the other boats crashed out toward the bay. But they all crashed. It was very windy.
Allen edwards This is really true. Boats were wiped out all over the bay. This one just happened to happen right in front of an audience.
Gabriel S. May I point out that you have replies here from someone who was there and someone who knows the tactician on the boat in this video. You don't always need an article to know what happened if you were there or talk to the people involved. They took second place this year so not such a bad skipper after all.
www.yachtscoring.com/event_results_cumulative.cfm?eID=1097
The boat that won this year is owned by the owner of Pineapple sails. Very hard to beat.
Did you mean two year national chumps? Abysmal seamanship, I can see how then have ever wondered a race!!
bigkiwial They finished second in the 2014 Nationals held in Berkeley. Google them. I believe they were raining national champions when this video was taken and had won the previous two years. Don't criticize them unless you have gybed a spinnaker in 35 knots of wind.
+Gabriel S. Where's your sailing video of getting out of crisis situation in tact with no mistakes?
Wat heb je dat geweldig gedaan. Ik vind het perfect engels hoor! Leuk om je zo te zien. En leef met je mee, je moeder zo ziek. Geniet maar zolang het kan
i did foredeck for golden moon, not on that day but its just sand bank there,
Yes... whoever was on the main sheet. froze. Let it out. Get the boat flat (so the rudder is back in the water) and then continue down wind. Hard to watch.
looking at it more I would ask maybe the skipper over corrected in the first roll?
Great filming
You aren't doing it right unless you touch the spreaders in the water. He has nice clean bottom
why you dont use a spinnaker in strong winds
You get some spectacular runs in strong winds but you need a crew that knows what it is doing in those conditions and someone calling the moves .
They needed to release the Vang long before and the sheet as they were wiping out , then when in trouble , the guy , not the halyard . Dumping the halyard just had the spin fill out where you can't reach it . If you release the guy the spin turns into a flag that you can easily pull in by the sheet . In this case because the boat gybed back the sheet was on the pole and the old Guy and sheet on the same side needed to be blown off . then the pole was going to be an issue and would need to be released but the mast guy was out of position .
Would have also helped to pull the guy on hard on the sheet side , tweakers if that's what you have before the wipe out and it would have stabilized the boat with the pull more midships . Gets rid of the death roll the driver tried to steer out of and overcompensated .
Fore deck pulled off the gybe , the guys in the back blew it . If the vang had been let off the boat would not have been held down and they would have been able to turn down . Instead the main was over powered and they could not , vang off the boom would have risen and the top of the main would dump the wind . The vang was the root problem but the driver also over-corrected trying to avoid a broach on the other gybe .
Anyway , been there done that both on the fore deck and driving , you learn from experience .
At minute 2:51 forward they are aground...
Too many Captains, and not enough crew.
The genius onlookers have the best advice: "just get the jib up and get out of there". Whoever said that must be a sailing prodigy and not a ditz at all.
My thoughts exactly she sounds like an arrogant bitch. First the racism, then the putdowns, and then the glee of someone else's peril. All as she sits indoors, dry and in comfort - she is just so happy she "got the shot in full frame".
I am very inexperienced at sailing, but shouldn't the crew have let the mainsail boom out to leeward at the start of the problem to stop so much leeward drift?
The captain seems like he got caught up in the racing, and lost his situational awareness. Specifically, he got way too close to shore as they were retrieving the spin. He is very lucky that they did not wrap the line around the prop as they power out after running aground. You can see the line wrapping under the port side as the boat is finally freed..
Engine had no water coming from the exhaust !!! not much of a skipper thats one of the first things you`d check before leaving the moorings.
seeing them at 3:38 had me real happy bout my lazy jack
Ooops. That went from good (the initial run) to the bad (the gybe and resultant kite drop) to the ugly (nearly touching the bottom on a lee shore). Not nice.
Why on Earth are they flying that headsail in hard weather?
Racing! They had just crossed the finish line in front of the St. Francis Yacht Club when sh*t hit the fan...
when they were heading for the rocks could they use the engine on reverse at full speed?....and why took so long for them to bring down the main sail?...just asking.
I am not racer , just a casual sailer , considering the closeness of running aground , I would have dropped the spin much faster , reff the main immediately , and if it is still obvious that I will run a ground , start the engine . 1. they had plenty of people to take care of the vessel . 2. being disqualified for starting the engine , is far cheaper than running aground .
They had lines over the side which could foul the prop when you put it in gear and might even pull the cutlass strut (if they have one) off the boat...
Why didn't the large boat Miss Farralone offer a tow out rather than just cruise by? This would have prevented them running aground. Does the good samaritan law not apply to the bay?
The boat in distress has his OWN engine. and started it way too late. Why have two boats is trouble?
He had his own engine why would he need a tow if he turned it on
Are they really sailors?????
I don’t sail boats like this I sail things like picos and fevas but he should have tacked and he would have been fine
Tacking is the absolute dumbest thing you can do when spinnaker sailing.You will either rip the sail to pieces or broach instantly
I own and sail a 12ft dinghy and I've crewed on a 31 ft yacht. It is very different. Here, the boat is racing with every scrap of sail, and it becomes overpowered. As the boat heels, the rudder loses its grip on the water and the stern swings round as the boat pivots around the keel. (Called broaching, and very nasty.) Broaching is like sliding off a motorcycle on a bend: if you're racing near to the limit, it will happen sooner later, but if you're just taking it steady, you can avoid using too much power and usually avoid the situation. The boat is then sideways onto the waves and the sails are pushing it over. They could have cut the spinnaker sheets but they opted to try to retrieve it without causing damage. While that spinnaker was flying, it was pulling the bow down wind. The boat had no forward momentum and therefore could not be steered. If they had tried to get some speed up in order to tack, they would have been heading towards shallow water in order to do so. As the waves reach the shore, they pile up. When the top of a wave goes one way, the bottom of the wave (below the surface) is going the other (a wave is a circular motion of water) and the keel becomes a problem, like a handle that the sea can use to shake the boat from side to side. The best option from a saving the boat point of view was probably to drop the mainsail, start the engine, and gain some sea room. However, this is a sailing race, so the engine can't be used without disqualification. Option two was probably to drop the mainsail, hoist a standard jib, turn down wind then try to gain some sea room. On a Pico, you can turn the boat through the eye of the wind by pushing the boom upwind by hand. That's not as easy on a big yacht like this!
@@mikefule from my experience on bigger yachts you never ever try to take down your symmetrical spinnaker down going down wind especially if the weathers bad because it will end up like this video.You depower it by going into the no go zone and you take it down there.
@@leftvassis I'll bow to your greater experience in how to depower a spinnaker without broaching. However, in the video, he simply broaches because he's overpowered and all the attempts to get the spinnaker down are later, which is what I was trying to explain. :)
@@mikefule im not saying i have great experience,just stating from the little i have.Meant no disrespect
Meanwhile they are commenting from the shore. Get out there and show us how its done.
The keel is a useful thing... ("The keel is your friend...")
??? Explain
@@michaelmcilrath9466 They would have bathed without keel...
Well, .... that was fun!
you need snakeskin for spinnaker.
I realy don't understand what the guy on the steraring wheel was doing. after they got the spinaker on board i would inmediately stear the boat into the wind.
+flierefluiter johnny The chinese gybe rounded the boat close to the wind when the rudder pulled from the water. Then after the spin was back in the boat, knowing how close the beach was, he must have wanted to tack to starboard through the wind. But with no forward speed, he was in irons and would have had no response to the rudder. Then an attempt to fall off to port was complicated by weather helm and no balancing jib force to complete the turn. It may seem easy to get out of this situation but I think the safe exit would be tricky for even the best sailors. As several have mentioned, a reach for the motor with all those lines in the water could have been a disaster, too.
That's why we have the double reef spinnaker drop folks!
This lady said it all "they are running around" on deck I couldn't figure it out how many stooges sailors was doing the right things.
*Aground* Their keel has struck the bottom, where Davy Jones lives and lots of little crabbies scuttle about. That's why the boat is stationary for the next few mins...
@@End_Domestic_Violence Hi there, with all do respect, first of all they should reef the sails way before, especially because it seems to me the crew wasn't prepared for that kind of wind, second they fail to keep the boat poiting to the wind to prevent acciental jibe, wich happened, the boat spunaround, tird so if it wasn't bad enougth, the boat runaout of ground ( water) and as seen stuck by the keel. Now I ask you where you dind't see the stooges?
@@paulolodicora4471 Very long time ago but these guys were world champions in their class for two years. I am told that every boat in the class crashed trying that gybe that year. I found this video when trying to explain what can happen with a spinnaker to a friend. The video I was looking for is gone. I think this is the original. I have raced against these guys (in an L-36 class race) and they are good.
@@L-36 First of all, it's a pleasure to have you in my review, but let me tell you this, they made everything weird, maybe they've improved now. Greetings from Brazil.
@@paulolodicora4471 Haha. Thanks for the reply. I don't know if they improved. as I lost touch after this. They were world champions before this video was filmed.
No engine for Emergences?
+Jeremy Swanson If you start the engine with the spinnacre in the water, you probably end up with a rope in the propeller and a far worse situation. There is no point starting the engine before you have sorted out the situation. I believe though, that they ran aground because they were so focused on taking care of the sails, that they didn't notice how close they were to the shore. There was plenty of time to stear away while they were finishing picking up the sail from the water.
+Fredrik Hörnfeldt Thank you so much for that interesting and detailed explanation. Most appreciated.
@@fredrikhornfeldt9736 They had the engine running with a sheet in the water off the port side.
Robert Bernhardt Thanks for the information. That proves my point! 🤩
I spent the summer capsizeing in a lake lol.
Восемь мужиков а смайнать по быстрому спинч не смогли. Сразу надо было фал отдать и он бы в воду лег. Попутно можно было стартануть движок.
"Get the jib up and turn around"? WTF, how do hoist a jib when you crew is retrieving your kite, in big breeze. This is obviously Corinthian racing, they were lucky no one was killed.
Square the pole?
Actually the pole is square. Maybe the skipper needed to be sailing a deeper angle prior to the jibe. Also maybe the tweeker should have been on full. That sail was awfully high and full. Should have been lower and flatter.
Spinnaker was too high including the pole. They should have pinned it down before releasing the pole
it's a good thing that that boom didn't whack someone... broken bones for sure...
why would they call it a chinese gybe?!
That's not how to splice your main brace
And check comments below for a Monday Quarterback convention!
I even question why do you record and post this?
We believe in the 1st amendment. And we don't control what people say short of deleting bad language.
If you haven’t done that you are not really trying hard enough. We are on kite number 11.
Inexperienced crew? slow to release the sheets.
what Id like to know is how a 16 girl (jessica watson) can sail around the world
and not put a scratch on her boat but all these guys had such a hard time with manuver
BananaPeal0 that made me laugh!! Not the collision, the comment!
why start your engine when you are NOT aground?
They Expeditious(ly) ran aground.....
They needed a Cape Dory
La "strambata cinese", questa sconosciuta !!!
im a new skipper and I would piss my pants!
You and me both. I'd be done for the day.
Worst thing is that they appear to have no idea what got the boat out of control in the first place:)
Barco brasileiro ?
Boat first the race must be in second place
So many sailors on board for a so ridiculous result , they've to go back to sailing school quick !!!
Elor de Rivens - and you have to go sailing rather that sharing your fucking useless comments
perfekt,learning by doing
People are weird in San Francisco that’s because San Francisco is in America!
Isto acontece, mas faltou experiencia ao Cmdt... Bons Ventos ⛵🌐
I notice they always show sailors hot dogging it in San Fransisco bay. San Fransisco sailors brag about how much more wind they have then Southern CA. Yea, well, what ever? Lake Superior where I'm from can completely wipe out San Fran bay without even trying. Of course no sane person would sail Superior in high winds. Even 30,000 ton ships are no match for Superior when its angry!
At least they didn't wreck. Good seamanship as far as I could tell. Technical difficulties.
No idea!!!
From what I can see they were aground well before that...
Rookies tearing up a good boat. See it all the time
"Chinese gybe": said with such confidence by one with so little knowledge. A Chinese gybe involves the lower part of the main gybing whilst the upper part remains on the same tack. This was not a Chinese gybe.
Really? We actually have confidence that it was just that. Who wants to vote?
@@T2PTVSailingOnDemand Many people in the world, it seems: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_gybe
The smug tone in the commentary doesn't help things.
I've also seen it defined as rolling the boat to windward, crash gybing and wiping out by rounding up after the gybe, like in these videos/articles. th-cam.com/video/huKIDygg264/w-d-xo.html. www.sailbetter.com/chinese-gybes-and-how-to-avoid-them/. Dinghies tip to windward and flip over. On a keelboat, the keel makes the boat gybe instead of leaving the boom sticking up out of the water with the crew in the water. Not saying it isn't when the top of the main gybes and the bottom doesn't. Just saying there are people who define it as a "death roll" too.
Worst boat handling I've ever seen. This skipper needs to get some training before he tries to race again. As skipper, I've taken a knockdown with a spinnaker that put the mast head in the water in a sudden summer squall. My crew and I kept our cool, squared away the boat, never started the engine and finished the race. It was a team race and we won because, although I finished last, others dropped out and my boat scored higher for my team. In another incident, as crew to a very green captain, we were late in getting the spinnaker down before such a knock and I went forward to help get the spinnaker down. We got a knock that sent me into the life-lines, breaking five ribs. I and the crew continued and got the spinnaker under control, took the time to clear all overboard lines BEFORE we started the engine ( this crew leaves the area with engine running and one line (at least one ) still trailing overboard.) If it gets into the prop, they'll be on those rocks pretty quick. BTW, we started the engine because the race was abandoned. In a third incident we were at a start and a squall came in before the gun. One of my friendly competitors took a picture of my boat under a double reefed main and then one of his Annonemeter reading 60 knots! With experience and a little savvy, it is not that hard.
Nicht so schlimm. Kein MOB (Mann über Bord), keine Verletzten, kein Materialschaden. Etwas die Kontrolle verloren, OK. Der Spy hätte etwas schneller "abgeworfen" werden sollen. Dann als er zum Spybaum fiel (bei 13 Sek). Dank der "Maschine" auch nicht im Legerwall aufgelaufen. Bei 3.12 kommt wahrscheinlich das Boot von der Rennleitung um ein Auflaufen zu verhindern, was gar nie der Fall war. So schlecht haben es die Jungs der Skipper (und die Rennleitung) gar nicht gemacht.
Not so bad. No MOB (man overboard), no dies, no material damage. l. The Spynacker should been "down" a little faster. Then when the Spyboum lost the Spinacker (at 13 sec). with the "machine" back and not in the Legerwall. At 3.12, the boat come to help. Its specatular bat not bad done - the skipper and the crew.
Water loopt de spuigaten uit.
Tough conditions, but this is what happens when you do not keep both barber haulers well tight and the spinnaker as flat and steady as possible.
The coordination of the crew is also unremarkable and the helmsman is a bit uncertain on where to steer the boat during the jibe.
Finally, this is not the way you let the main change tack in strong winds.
The owner was lucky that the mast remained in one piece, the boat was still fast when the pole hit the water.
Total lack of leadership by the skipper, no respect for his crew or yacht, just shows you don't have to have brains to own a sail boat, just money
mistakes are made by everyone, how ever much experience you have. thankfully no one was hit by the boom while she jibed could have made things a lot worse.
Ahh this can happen to any crew that is not trained. The spinnaker sheets are too loose (especially the starboard) and suddenly you have a spinnaker out of control after the jibe. I think we all been there at some point... props for pulling up the spinnaker in windy conditions! And yes, no one hurt by boom!
True stuff can happen to anyone and usually will at the worst possible time, its what you do when things do go wrong that counts for the safety of your crew, your boat and yourself
that happens to everybody, if it has never happened to you then you arent sailing
It sure happens but the difference is providing the leadership and clear thinking to ensure the overall safety of the crew, boat and myself. If you cant provide that leadership then you shouldnt be the skipper
+justininvestor
> what Id like to know is how a 16 girl (jessica watson) can sail around the
> world and not put a scratch on her boat but all these guys had such a
> hard time with manuver
Actually, the very first thing Jessica Watson did after setting sail from Australia was collide with a container ship (and had to come back to make repairs). Running aground, or hitting another boat is something that can happen very quickly on the water.
( www.news.com.au/national/jessica-watson-warned-after-collision-do-not-sail/story-e6frfkwr-1225779759097 )