Superfly - A Worthwhile DIY Upgrade?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 มิ.ย. 2021
- The Superfly is a new housing for the tried and true Bondtech BMG. It drops about 37 grams of weight, but surely that weight savings must come at some cost, right?
- วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
DUAL DRIVE EXTRUDER HISTORY: Brook Drumm former Printrbot owner, designed, and offered for sale to consumers, a dual gear extruder called the Gear Head in 2014!
There's nothing magical or new about the Bondtech. You can see versions resembling PrintrBot’s offered from China today.
His TH-cam presentation 10/31/2014: Printrbot Double-Drive Extruder th-cam.com/video/Ox47ESk8DE4/w-d-xo.html
In 2017 he offered an all metal aluminum water jetted upgrade called the Printrbot Gear Head v2 Extruder. I've used his single gear aluminum version for years with NEVER a fail, including flexible's. Can't say that for other extruders I’ve used. Of course, they are direct drive, the only way to go. :)
You would love the Sherpa mini
True, orbiter and sherpa are way better
Great video! Engineering and no whining makes for a good combination, thank you!
This guy whines all the time.
@@patrickmurphy255 Not in this video, so now you're the only one whining 😜
@@marcus3d Fair Enough lol
Interesting design. Great video and walk-through
Thanks for sharing :-)
Just got my biqu h2 got it installed with titanium heat break it was 22.5 length instead of 23.75 like stock one had to modify mount and fan. I had the same problem that you did with the loose gear meshing and got in contact with biqu and they are going to send new gears to me. I also made a way to fix it with a 8mm od 5mm Id bearing I drilled a hole and put the bearing on transmission rod used a m2 screw to tension the transmission gear. I did proof of concept with an aluminum spacer as bearing and eliminated the backlash in gear. I'm going to be posting on redit once I get bearing installed 10 pack for 8$. I will provide link simple cheap fix. Love the content keep up the good work.
Hope you can see it as constructive criticism but it think this video would be easier to follow if you show a chart with all the specs, cons and pro's of the tested extruders compared. You did discuss all differences in the video, but it's still a visual medium and would certainly aid to summarize your findings at the end of your video. And if you plan to make a series about it every new video could start with it too.
Instead of buying the original BMG to strip down, why not buying just the BMG internals? They are available in our Accessories category page in 2 different sets: HextruORT and Sherpa Mini.
Nice video! :) Been wanting to see someone take a look at the Superfly.
Edit: Just wondering, did your NF sunrise come yet? I imagine it will take a bit to get your review so perhaps but would be a bit before the video. But when I saw your video saying you ended up ordering it I've been waiting for your review before I end up ordering, or passing on it. :)
Thanks for the content!
I like your video, but for this direct extruder is it better to use pancakes or nema14?
Hey I appreciate that you put yourself out there saying that you were wrong at some level, and I agree with you that it is bad form to just rip off someone’s design for your own gain, but I would think that the needle bearing ‘improvement’ might not meet the ‘non-obvious’ criteria to be valid, that being said bondtech should get credit for porting the design to 3d printing :)
Bondtech literally repurposed someone else's widely known, over half a century in use preexisting design. They just put in different shaped box around it and slapped their logo on it. I'm not saying it's a bad product, certainly not - but there's hard limits to how much _credit_ I think someone is due for not even reinventing just rebranding the wheel, and making a square plastic box to put it in. Phaetus and Trianglelabs probably earned more credit for the Dragon. At least they made a different design off Slice Engineering's concept, and they actually developed further improvements and iterations to address shortcomings that Slice Engineering themselves, by their own words, can't be arsed to care enough to do.
Great video!
I might play with this design, starting with different materials, ABS, PETG(not a good choice). Perhaps the particular blend of PC you have has a lot of shrinkage. Perhaps PC glass or carbon fibre filled might work well due to the extra stable dimensions(though I’m. It paying that premium for a filament I don’t need, and when I have surplus I think I’d rather put it in to a couple of months patreon here).
Sherpa Mini also looks interesting, I’d be interested to hear your thoughts!
If you want to remove more weight, I'd be looking at taking the stepper apart and print some upper and lower plates for it, get rid of the metal ones. I don't think they are required for any magnetic reason (could be wrong), I think they just hold the bearings.
hi how are you? nice one) for prusa time the weight of 50 or ewen 100 grams does not matter as the crusial is the weight of the bed) so this is more applicable for corexy or ultimaker) i have printed something like bmg but smaller in dimensions but have found what is the point of all this the gain of 20-40 grams?
that's rly nice, I've been thinking of designing something similar
You can get stepper motors with shorter shafts?
you should also try the sherpa mini (or the hextrudort). Same concept, but more refined
Thank you for the review, and thank you for showing that patent for the welder feeder.
Which pancake stepper motor will work for ender 3 board
Wait, it's meant to be a bowden? What's the point of making it super light, then?
Maybe it's useful for delta 3D printers with a "floating" or suspended extruder with a short PTFE tube?
The fact that, there is a continuous stream of new extruders coming to market, means only one thing, that no one got it right, kind of slam dunk, game over sort of thing. Just some 💭❤️👍
Are you familiar with the 3d printing vocabular? I don't see that much new extruders out there. Yes some got lighter to get more speed, but the most invention went into hotends, aka heatbreak and high flow nozzles, not into extruders. Bambulab for example has a pretty dam good solution with very cheap spare parts. I already use 2 Bambulab Hotends on two of my other printers beside my X1 and they work phantastic.
@@thilov.5750 Bambu🤖 in action💛👍☺️
@@aware2action Looks like you are not into 3d printing at all, but good in trolling others! 🤡 You act like the bot here!
This video here is two years old and as said, there are no big new inventions in extruder design since then. A lot of others using bambulab knock off hotends like me on other printers, combined with a cheap high flow nozzle this is an affordable solution for fast printing, without spending all your savings for expensive high flow hotends like a magnum. On my rat rig, I can print up to 30 mm3 with this hotend without any problems or underextrusion.
My orbiter melted for no good reason and my H2 kept jamming...only going to use titan/ bags from now on ...
Have you thought about building a Voron /HeVort printer in the future? Or is it just not worth it, because you already own a core xy printer with an enclosure?
he should definitely review the voron 2.4. Would love to see his opinion on it.
Both designs use a lot of printed parts which isn't good for use in a heated enclosure.
@@evropapagan5551 isn’t the voron designed to be enclosed? I thought abs in an enclosure doesn’t give any problems
@@otroe This guys enclosure has a higher temp than the temp the vorons acrylic panels can achieve.
@@evropapagan5551 why is using his enclosure so necessary? maybe just do it theway the designer intends??
Speaking of extruders, Does anyone make a more robust extruder that can handle large or even bad filament? Like a really tough extruder that could handle tuff filaments.
I ask because when 3d printing was new and peaking in popularity lots of people wondered if it could handle recycled plastics, like Hdpe. It was eventually abandoned because of the difficulty in makeing your own filament, the useability of Hdpe, and the general trends towards speed and detail.
But I've never given up on the idea. I believe if we just had a printer designed for it we could popularize printing with reused plastics. There have been so many advancements in dealing with warping and other problems that kills me why we've still abandon the idea.
Like when Makers Muse popularized drilling nozzles out to 1.0mm. He said it was useful if you were okay with it being slow, more prone to warping and, using a lot of filament. It was great but I was personally tearing my hair out because that's the direction all of 3D printing should have been going in the first place. Who cares if recycled HDPE warps and is bad if the printers designed to go slow and chew through bad filament?
Could a tough extruder be made? Could this be possible? Would that extruder that supposedly prints using raw pellets be a good direction to go? Sorry for the bombardment of questions, but I feel like you would have the knowledge and expertise for this.
I just found this video while I am fininshing the printing of this....:) I'll see how does it look like...
I wonder if anyone has tried to skeletonize any of these stepper motors like an AR-15 skeletonized receiver
Another great, insightful, and honest review. Keep it up man. 👍
shaving a few grams off the extruder motor itself is easy. and can be done to any stepper. remove end caps and drill holes through the caps.
Thank you.. I've printed a couple of these Superflys.
Old (your) version and the improved version .With a hinged BMG type pressure gear setup.
Fits are iffy tho. When one part fits as desired.. another doesn't... grrr.
BUT as you stated : the Only actual advantage is in the reduction of Stepper weights.
Weight differences of the Superfly Vs BMG are Not worth the effort to print it.. by any reasonable yardstick.
Also One can't reasonably fit a Nema 14 Round motor to this, as their Shaft length is far Too short to reach the Main gear !
Again: ... Grrr.
What was interesting... is your use of a yet thinner Pancake stepper. Always wondered as to How small a pancake could be fitted without Overheating it problems.
As for Hotends... a simple Stoopid Clone CHT nozzle solves Pretty well ALL flow constraints, for a couple/three $..
That's worth looking into for me.
Another topic that would be cool for you to cover is Non-Planar printing
since you talked about the mosquito being the best hotend you can get, I would really enjoy a comparison to the nova hotend from 3DPassion, which, in my opinion, is the hotend that comes closest(if not better) to the performance and design of the mosquito, while still coming from an original creator. Nice Video!
or the volcano mosquito from nitram or even the magnum+
@@matthewweinberger7023 the magnum + is defiantly very cool, but not really available yet. I never heard of the hotend from nitram, where can i find that? The name sounds quite interesting
.....what about BLV-MGN and Voron? Those are new and perform faster if properly configured
Both DIY printers which require that you already have a functioning printer to make them. This will always be a niche, The real sales numbers come from the turnkey compete printers.
@@DesignPrototypeTest well, it's latest news but there are now official kit approved from designers, also all metal. You may want to have a look at them. (I agree, the all 3D printing market it's a growing niche, we're all waiting for the next Bill Gates, Michael Dell or Steve Jobs with a monkey prove reliable solution)
you tryed NFzone T to compare with mosquito?
I just looked at pictures of it. It looks like a hot mess to me. A hodgepodge of functionality from Creality, E3D, and Slice. Like a hiphop remix of hotends.
I've stopped using duel geared hob extruder because they are pigs to thread especially with flexibles
Why so much emphasis on weight? Does it have something to do with minimizing inertia to allow for faster change in direction to maximize print speed or something to that effect? I have a CR-10 Mini and have been able to successfully print out a few things in PLA, but I want to print with nylon which requires higher temps. Any suggestions anyone might have for a good fairly simple swappable extruder/hot end solution would be greatly appreciated. Price isn't much of an issue, but I would like to keep it sensible if possible. Thanks. 😁👍
Lower weight reduces inertia which reduces ringing and increases part quality.
these are designed for the speedbenchy race wich need much higher speeds and less mass means you need less torque for high speed
Saving weight makes a lot of sense, but only if you have a delta or coreXY printer. If you have a bed moving it's generally that your heaviest moving mass, so if you save on the extruder the Y axis is not affected.
@@karellen00 you can set (in klipper) per axis limits and dual axis limits, thatway a x move can go faster than a y move and a dual move can go at a inbetween
Have you seen the Sherpa Mini? i think thats what you are looking for
I don't precisely know how a stepper motor is made on the inside, but isn't drilling holes on their housing a viable options? I find rather silly to save a few grams by using printed parts, but still bringing around that chunk of metal. Especially thinking that the original BMG is made of SLS nylon, that even if heavier may be more robust than FDM printed parts, so there may be not a lot of difference in print quality even saving weight.
its meant to use a lightweight nema14 wich weighs in at a fraction of a nema17 but he didnt do that and opted to make a quick video
Yes you can drill holes in the end bell's (the silver end caps) but not in the stator. (Center black part) The stator is stacked insulated laminations. Down side is dirt getting in will shorten the life very fast.
I wonder how much extra weight it would add to have the pressure arm pivot at the base like the bondtech and every other design. The real question is, at what point in lowering the hot-end weight do you hit diminishing returns?
how come you use rhino and not fusion 360?
I think because of money and Rhino was what they taught at his university.
The way this dude says "com-po-nent"
It reminds me of lowering the weight of the bike :) Fight for every gram :) First you will come to the conclusion that you can shorten the screws. Then buy aluminum one. Then you find out maybe nylon screw. Both types will not work. You will buy titanium -1/3 steel weight :). Price is matter ;) You will buy a 26mm motor. I will read the Opinions that it heats up a lot and melts the filament. You will add a heat sink. It turns out that the motor has too little torque. You will buy a bigger but heavier one. You will start to figure out how to reduce weight even more. You will get an element made of scandium aluminum alloy. You will persuade your CNC friend to cut the parts of motor to replace trze oryginals. They will be lighter than from titanium :) You will start thinking about metal gears. Maybe drill holes in them to make them lighter. And you can make parts in a carbon fiber i - again with few grams less. Personally, I love it. Then you have the lightest extruder model on the estate. Good thing the extruder is small. For bicycles, each 1 kg less is a minimum of 250 eur. Good luck!
It's been a long roller-caster ride. I finally calmed down.
Just like racing cars
Have you seen niknaktak's remix?
I have not. What are the benefits? Try providing a link in an individual comment. I think it might be auto-approved.
Subbed
I've no stakes in the game at this time but your lovely bit of unnecessary spite at the end deserves a bit of the same in return so I'd love to see you go up against existing precedent to convince a court or arbitration judge someday that you're not selling a service and associated information products. Good luck with that. And maybe in the future leave off with the mass-targeted personal attacks, eh?
No stakes in the game, yet I clearly touched a nerve. Who is trolling who? Also, by your rationale I could potentially be forced to share the source files with the companies who paid to advertise on this video. You, dear viewer, who paid me nothing would still not have any claim to the fruit of my labor.
"[...]yet I clearly touched a nerve."
Primarily in that I've dealt my whole life with people who take any excuse to denigrate whole swathes of other people and feel smug about it because they think that it not being racism or sexism means they can't be legitimately called out on it. It got old a LONG time ago and became one of those things I kneejerk react to.
Your claim in the video for why you don't have to publicly release what you yourself declare to be modifications of licensed open-source code was that you're not selling it - specifically that giving it to your paying service-subscribers on Patreon isn't an act of selling it. Judges and arbitrators in the US have repeatedly decided in cases against Patreon itself and against Patreon Creators, as well as in cases involving other crowdfunding services, that the nature of crowdfunding does not change the nature of commerce. A subscription service that exchanges products for monetary value, physical or digital or otherwise, is engaging in sales.
And who am I denigrating? The trolls who have mercilessly hounded my channel for 4 years, trying so desperately to make me the bad guy? You want to touch a nerve with me? Defend the cowardly low lifes who hide behind anonymous avatars and talk badly about me in other forums. They have cult like adoration of some stupid brand or another and follow the sock puppet talking points to attack me. Constantly. They think lingo like "paywall" is a guaranteed moral victory and I must be stopped because I dare to not give them what I made for free. As if I'm their slave, and I work for them without compensation. What a f-ed up attitude to have! Petty tyrants. These anonymous cowards decided I was their enemy. I'm only obliging their wishes.
So somebody points out the most obvious legal flaw in your supposed counterattack without touching on the part of your spiel you think you have actual reason to be sensitive about and they're automatically part of your crowd of faceless malicious antagonists? When you're ready to grow up and act your age, let me know by replying again. Don't bother before then.
a poor video showing a incorrectly assembled superfly extruder, its meant for nema14 but due to many users already owning a nema17 was adapted to suit both, every single other extruder uses a nema14
The majority of 3d printer folk really overthink.....everything.
Try the sherpa mini. The new 8t ldo motors are coming (I have a pair due to arrive tomorrow), and will allow to run at lower current. I was able to get 600mm/min on the sherpa mini with the mosquito magnum. Sherpa combo is quiet a bit less weight than the orbiter, and runs at a higher gear ratio
you printed the wrong tensioner... in the files there is a "high-tension" that will solve that problem...with weight reduction...
you didn't do your homework for this video
I think he did a good job explaining the extruder. It is impossible to know everything on a subject he isn't intimately familiar with. As someone who never heard of this extruder it introduced me to it, told me some issues I might have and gave me an idea of weight savings. Also the fact it isn't as user friendly for loading filament is a big detail that isn't his fault. All in all, it informed us and then if we want to dig further we can.
@@DaneC020
I disagree. he is spending more than 5 min of the segment on an issue that would have been solve if he would have printed the other file.
he said that there are other files (such as the "extra clearance") so why no test both tensioners on the file directory?
I think you might want to check out the "3D Mellow NF sunrise" extruder, it looks promising.
It looks like it has an cnc machined body, with a very short gear to hotend distance.
Maybe this one doesnt have to be modified on the gears like your BIQU H2.
I really would appreciate if you could check it out, maybe this is an extruder that I can buy
I think batteries weigh more the higher charge they contain.
Slap yourself bro....you didn't think that thru before you typed it lol
technically, but it's less than the weight of a spec of dust by orders of magnitude.
I almost daily push my mosquito above 22mm3/s and 240mm/s 🤷♂️ You are. Or even close to the max 25mm3/s hotend can handle at your speeds.
I think you took the zip tie idea from Prusa!
HA HA HA!!! I totally did! Should have given credit.
@@DesignPrototypeTest if you go back to his thingiverse page, the creator said he redesigned the part that is too loose, so now you shouldn't need to use the zip tie.
All this ado about mass reduction is being done from the wrong perspective. Instead of less mass, you just need less gravity. I use an online service to have my parts 3D printed on the moon.
This is one of those slow burn jokes. Your smile gets larger and larger the longer you think about it. Thanks for this. :)
Do an entire video on someone else's design and then not link to it in the description?
Perfect example of theft from a guy who whines constantly about theft.
Your comment is what desperation sounds like. You can't stand that I'm not the bad guy. You've got a preconceived notion in your mind that I am the one who is wrong and therefore you are grasping at straws to find some minor infraction that I may have committed. Anything to justify your worldview that I am the bad guy. I paid for this Extruder. I bought it on a Chinese website. I'm not about to provide free publicity to some random seller in China who didn't provide the product to me for the review.
@@DesignPrototypeTest Oh, so you're claiming that you bought the Superfly from a Chinese website?
Is there an a western website that sells it? Not made in China?
LGX looks like a hemera clone dirty thieves
Hi Paul. All of the latest comments on my channel on any of my videos are focused on this "cloning is theft" issue. Given that I have not received any such comments for many months, the frequency of them all of the sudden is suspicious. It seems to me like this is spill-over from another forum somewhere else on the internet. Can you tell me where you came from to watch and comment on my video here?
Kocham cię, ale moich pieniędzy nie dostaniesz :-)
still too heavy! take a look at the Hextrudort instead! using a 14mm Nema14 round stepper with the guts from a bondtech the same, i believe it is actually the lightest extruder and my god is it good, look at MirageC the creator pushing stupid speeds on his printer with it
Hextrudort + Nova is the lightest most performing setup you can have I believe, and he proves it! th-cam.com/video/5HKC9tRqtTw/w-d-xo.html
If you are putting open source designs behind a paywall you are selling those designs. So yeah you can't do that and you may be sued if someone was pissed enough that you were stealing their ip.
Are you just sayin' like in general, or are you accusing me?
@@DesignPrototypeTest Are your designs built on someone else's licensed designs?
You watched the video. You know the answer to your question. Now stop being coy. I need to know before we continue this conversation if you are being combative or just wishing to display you knowledge of open source.
@@mp-xt2rg All right, I've given you ample time to declare your intentions so that there is no ambiguity. Since you didn't answer I will judge by context that you are being hostile toward me and I will respond in kind.
1) You don't even know why you attack me. You're part of the groupthink that has the wrong idea about me and because you've seen others disparage me you jumped on that bandwagon and feel justified to treat me this way. This is wrong. I don't deserve it.
2)The license attached to the original Superfly is the LGPL which is meant to apply to software libraries. I have no idea why that license was used for the original superfly, but even if it was licensed with the GPL *I am not required to share my files with you.* If you do your homework and actually read the GPL and the FAQ that goes along with it you will find that I am only required to share the source code (I guess this means editable CAD files, but It could only mean .stl files) With PAYING CUSTOMERS. Just because I downloaded and worked with the original superfly files doesn't make me indebted to every dude on the planet who wants to make me go out of my way to dig up those file and share them with him. That would be ridiculous. What if my project went viral and I had a million people wanting my work? Do you really think the writers of the GPL would make it so burdensome to creators? With that kind of risk why would anyone make open source files?
3) You have an insultingly entitled attitude, Karen. I've spent just about my whole life working to have the skillset I have today. You can't do what I do, yet you think that I should give you what I made for free. You think I'm your b__ch. I don't just have to do what you tell me, but I have to do it for free. WTF is wrong with you? You have no moral reason to resent "paywalls." If a thing is good enough for you to desire it then PAY THE CREATOR you cheapskate.
4) If you actually wanted the files you should have asked nicely. The extruder doesn't work without the zipties and I never spent any time to make it better than what I showed in the video. In my judgement it's just a waste of time so I would have gladly shared with you if you had been nice to me.
@@DesignPrototypeTest lgpl requires you release the work it's not optional. If you charge people for it that's theft. Sorry but that's the licence you agreed to. If you don't like that consider doing some original work. That being said I don't have any interest in your files. Cad is not hard I'd just do it myself. I'm not familiar with what you did cad wise, this video was just playing in the background and I commented on what you said about paywalls and licences but my guess is I could replicate your work in about 10 minutes. My last project was building landing lights for a friend's experimental airplane that are capable of calculating the touchdown area and pointing there and a range of 1 mile. I doubt you are more capable than me.
I don't liked this project... Doesen't worked well
одни перечисления брендов ... бесполезная информация
Вы смотрели видео, прежде чем комментировать? Твои слова звучат так, будто у тебя есть вендетта против меня. Думаю, я предоставил много полезной информации.
@@DesignPrototypeTest я посмотрел целиком, и смущает только наличие огромного количества брендов, как будто смотришь рекламу между матчами.
Ничто не существует в вакууме. Вы должны иметь сравнения, чтобы знать, как оценить вещь.
@@DesignPrototypeTest я привык сравнивать не вещи а результат. Какая разница какой экструдер у вас за 100 долларов или за 15 если результат одинаковый или тем более не в пользу дорогого.
Главное это примеры печати и скорости а не то кто их и где купил.
В Китае бмг стоят около 10 долларов а печатают так же как регионал. А если нет разницы то о чем говорить
Вы нацелены на результат. Определенная правдивая производительность хорошая. Но то, как вы достигаете результатов, также важно. Все эти экструдеры используют разные технологии. Возможно, один лучше, даже если результаты хуже. Может просто надо доработать. Жизнь это путешествие, а не пункт назначения. Мне все равно, что ты купишь. Я не зарабатываю на вашей покупке. Спасибо за просмотр моего видео. Хорошего дня.
Check out the "ZK 76zy-02av" this is basically how the OMG extruder works, way better design.