The Tailed Beasts Didn't Exist In Naruto Part 1
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ก.ย. 2024
- The Tailed Beasts didn't exist in Naruto Part 1. The concept of 9 powerful chakra beasts that form the 10 Tails when combined wasn't something Kishimoto though of in the beginning of the series, but he retroactively added it in Naruto Shippuden with the concept of Jinchurikis as well. Aka another Naruto retcon.
Let's analyze how Kishimoto's ideas evolved by taking a look at the Naruto vs Gaara fight when Gaara displayed the full power of Shukaku, which later would be known as the One Tail, when the Akatsuki goes after Gaara in the beginning of Naruto Shippuden.
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Who's your favorite Tailed Beast?
monke
Han and Utakata are my favorite jinchuriki, though.
8 tails
Fire monke is pog
7 tails and Fu, followed by the 2 tails.
The Ten Tails as the Gedo Statue.
Really gave it a "Archaic Occult Society" vibes
Left me wondering what it was and what it could do once they absorbed all the tailed beast
You can feel an awful lot of retcons when you started to rewatch this series.
Part 1 was focused a lot more in the supernatural aspect of its theme with a few bits of horror and maybe gore.
Then later in Part 2, they started to switch things around and instead of supernatural, Kishi changed it more into fantasy-ish Ninja world.
The more you rewatch it, the more you can pinpoint where and when Naruto started to change drastically.
Another thing dragon ball inspiration
Naruto: "So I have been training with a legendary ninja who taught his previous students all about chakra elements but forgot to mention it to me during the last three years, can someone bring me up to speed?"
Sakura: "Okay, so have you ever read Hunter X Hunter? Chakra elements are basically Nen, but using Pokémon logic."
For me, the signs started during the pain arc
While I did like the concept how Kurama and the rinnegan were unique in the regards of that unique godlike power or nuclear like weapon.
I preferred the ninja politics or village and how they try to avoid world war through a status quo
Remember when he forgot and made Neji's speech about genetics right
@@Kinma15 To be fair, Neji was proven right even in that very fight. He beat the living shit out of Naruto, outfought him at every turn, yet Naruto won because he’s half Uzumaki (virtually unlimited stamina) and needed Kurama to bail him out. Both of which he was born with (Kurama being transferred at birth is effectively the same as him being born with it). Neji was always right, he was just killed because just how right he turned out to be.
I kinda would have preferred all the beasts to be on roughly equal footing. But they have type advantages and disadvantages. And they could cultivate strength by developing new techniques with their power as well as being in good terms with their Jinchuuriki.
So a pokemon/ jojo system?
@@RenegadeStriker7 Yeah I would say it's similar to Pokémon but only ideally. The beasts should still retain difficult personalities and trauma. An alternative origin from the Sage of 6 Paths could be like the auspices. That is animals who evolved through mysterious means to be very powerful individuals like in some Asian folklore.
yeah it feels really wrong for shukaku to be handled by a frog, and then have 9 tails solo war arc.
the whole nuclear deterrence metaphor hardly works when like only 8 and 9 tails are relevant, swear every other tailed beast just gets manhandled by the respective kage.
course that somewhat gets retconned too with the whole kazekage fought shukaku with iron sand - wouldnt make sense for the (fourth?) kage to be relative to mr.frog so evidently part 2 shukaku was made stronger than part 1
Ah yes .
The Megaman Bosses system
@@m.elephant3996 Damn, Megaman sounds like fire. Especially if you can grab one and whack another with it as a player like you're implying.
I think the biggest proof of this theory (as well as of Shukaku not being a tailed beast originally) is that initially when Gaara talks about his situation he says “the spirit of an old priest sealed within a jar” was sealed inside him, and later he says it was the one-tail, the story is also re-written to make the priest become the last jinchuriki of Shukaku
Yeah I watched Shippuden first before the og Naruto and it's so obvious it was a retcon if you pay attention to the world building
Plus what was al that feeding off blood, and demonic chanting he was doing, it was never explained and shikaku was retconned to be nothing like that with no explanation
It was explain3d why gara was like that though @lj1290
People arguing that Shukaku proves the 9 tailed beasts were planned are missing a key point. Mythology. The Shukaku is a Tanuki, which only has 1 tail. The Kyuby is the Nine Tailed fox, a fox that as the name says, has 9 tails. The 2 were based on Japanese mythology, and the ammount of tails are the same as their inspiration material, they were not meant to represent a group of 9 beasts. It just so happened that it worked as a basis to retcon and add the other 7.
While that's true, the existence of Gaara and Shukaku imply the possibility of more sealed demon beasts in the Naruto world, since Gaara worked basically the same as Naruto. At that point, including more demon creatures sealed in different characters sounds like quite a natural progression of the story. Kishimoto probably had that in mind at that point, he just decided they were going to be specifically the tailed beasts around the time he began Part 2.
Plus shukaku had a history with the 9 tail when they were younger.
When he saw the big toad turn into someone from his past he barely mentions it even though in shipudden its been seen that kurama annoyed him a lot.
@@walter-white4641 I'm pretty sure that tanuki and kitsune just have really bad relationships in Japanese lore. I don't think that proves that tailed beasts were planned any more.
If the tailed beast was a concept, it would’ve been mentioned in part 1 already
Any talk of tail beasts and even that term, along with the term jichiruki wasn’t used until part 2
Originally, Shukaku and kyuubi were demons akin to nature that can become large masses of chakra in solid form
Saying "retcon" doesn't make you smart. Nor does asserting something make it true. Show actual proof that the tailed beasts weren't meant to exist, not headcannon.
I think Kishimoto using the Tailed Beasts later on as metaphors for nuclear deterents was brilliant and It's one of those what-ifs in Naruto that I wish was more baked into the narrative from the start. You can work with a lot of political intrigue into the plot where nations are trying to capture the other nations tailed beast and add it to theirs. Organizations within those nations trying to understand and experiment with Jinchuriki to make them into their ultimate weapons. Smaller nations could even be included as them obtaining a tailed beast would immediately catapult them into big stage player within the worlds politics. There's so much potential here.
Its just a shame a lot of the Tailed beast story potential was ultimately wasted and I do understand that at the end of the day, Naruto isnt a political intrigue type story. I get that, but man, it really does lend itself to it at times.
I agree immensely. The tailed beasts should have been the ultimate powers of the series imo, untamable creatures of great age, power, and knowledge. An authentic double edged sword due to how hard they are to even try to control and thus both a boon and a liability.
But more so they should have had more agency, schemes of their own and the like. Imagine how cool it would have been if the 3 tails controlled Yagura and thus was intentionally setting up the downfall of the nation who captured them? We see it with the nine tails but they could have been so much more!
And yeah, having more power plays and politics, involving the smaller nations and just the regular citizens of these nations more would have been immensely cool!
You're right I would have liked to see more of the hidden waterfall because they had a failed beast
Also in Bortuo Baryon mode is done using Nuclear Fusion making the metaphor more explicit.
Omg lol *tailed beast*
The problem is then it would make no sense for people to hate Naruto or Gaara if they understood that they are by far their villages greatest asset, and also that the nuclear deterrence doesn't actually work if all the Tailed Beasts working together can't stop half the Nine Tails anyway. In his rush to make Naruto the strongest most special boy, Kishimoto actively undermined the good parts of his story in such a way that the WHOLE story is hurt by it
Shukaku didn’t recognize Narutos Kurama Transformation, thats how you know its Retcon, specially since Shukaku hates Kurama lol
He did have a reaction to it, but he never said anything or acknowledged that he knew him in any way so idk
@Apathy474 You'd figure he would Call Him Kurama, or Say something, but he just had a reaction to a huge fox.
Well that's cuz believe it or not, they only transformed into the the actual nine tails in the anime. In the manga, naruto and gamabunta just transform into a giant fox with just one tail
You should make a video about Minato not being the strongest Hokage retcon. I remember the days when the 4th Hokage was surrounded by so much mystery/legend/hype and he never really got to live up to it
Yeah shame
Tell that to Minatos fanbase
He was powerful
It’s just that everyone else was apocalyptically powerful
@@pn2294 not to mention
We barely saw him and don't actually know the full extent of his power. I mean we see him use like 3 jutsus but he knows way more he just decides to use those few because they are efficient ( fast and deadly ) plus in edo form he was able to teleport the giant juubi bomb without breaking a sweat.
I used to think that but Minato was mainly known as the hero who stopped Kurama's attack on the leaf, not really being the strongest
The intelligence of the Tailed Beasts is another retcon. When Deidara and Tobi capture the Three-Tails (during Naruto's Rasenshuriken training in the manga and during the Three-Tails filler arc in the anime), Deidara states that since the Three-Tails lacked a jinchuuriki, it lacked the intelligence to use its power effectively.
So that implied that Tailed Beasts are naturally mindless animals, and that the only reason Shukaku and Kurama seemed intelligent is because they had Naruto and Gaara's knowledge to feed off of. So in a way, it's a mutually beneficially relationship; the jinchuuriki gets the Tailed Beast's power, and the Tailed Beast gets the jinchuuriki's sapience.
That went out the window in the war arc though.
That was never done
Yes it was
It was heavily stated taield beats aren’t intelligent until they were
oh i like tha idea
@@adamup2246 yes it was, otherwise why would Kurama even rampage on the leaf during the incident where Minato and Kushina died unless he was still a mindless entity. They had to make up a story about all the tailed beasts "growing up" and becoming "angry at humanity" to justify it in part 2
@@candidfob8423 kurama was under genjutsu if I recall correctly
To this point I hate how the tailed beasts were so important to the plot yet we know next to nothing about them or their jinchurikis (1, 8 and 9 tails excluded)
Honestly same, they're all really cool and my personal favorite is probably Saiken but we know like nothing about him or Utakata
@@jesmccoy26for me it's Matatabi because of its sick design
Yeah that as well, also shows the lack of planning for the series as the Madra too OP could have easily been solved if other villages got short arks about saving a couple tailed beasts, like Mei convincing Utakata to give the Mist another chance and Gara having the sand help rescue Fu, continuing the Sand Chunin exam plot. These two are also wwo jinchuriki you could easily justify where getting partial chakra could have come from and thus you have nerfed Jubidara by having an even more imperfect 10 Tails, while adding two more strong people to the Allied Shinobi side.
@@jesmccoy26 Worst part is since he was the second mist jinchuriki his arc could have also been used to make Mei more than the "no husband" Kage.
I never liked how in the end, only Kurama really mattered and the rest were Mcguffins who are captured offscreen/page.
They should have been introduced in part one
yes. instead 100000 fillers they could tell stories about other tailed beasts
There was an idea that more of them would team up but that ended up being tossed out in favor of Naruto against the world
I already realized this myself, but it's even more apparent the more you think about it (though whether it being a retcon is good or bad is a different matter altogether). By Part 1, nobody refers to Shukaku & the Nine-Tails as "Tailed Beasts" & their hosts, "Jinchuuriki". Both of them were referred to as demon spirits, that they're individual, powerful, malevolent spirits tied to humanity's evil, & that sealing them into human hosts seemed like a novel yet mysterious feat that not everyone should know about. By Part 2, all of a sudden, everyone knows what the Tailed Beasts are, & that apparently, the First Hokage once tamed them & gave them away to different nations as gifts. This implies that there's history to these beings, history that's intrinsically linked to the history of shinobi, meaning there should be no room for misinterpretation whatsoever. The Jonin in each village should have a basic, working knowledge on what the Tailed Beasts & Jinchuuriki are, given their history in previous wars (the Hidden Mist turning Rin Nohara into a Three-tails Jinchuuriki Trojan Horse, Killer Bee facing off against Minato, etc.); heck, some of the Jinchuuriki even gained their reputation by being successful at taming their respective Beasts (Killer Bee, the 4th Mizukage), with some even becoming Kage (Gaara, the 4th Mizukage). Nobody refers to them as demon spirits, & that everyone knows that they're part of a set of monsters: the Tailed Beasts, & that capturing & sealing them into human hosts were the shinobi's intended goal for them all along. In short, any form of mystery that they had in Part 1, suddenly vanished in Part 2, & it wasn't a result of the narrative revealing stuff to our characters, no. Kishi made it appear that they were already a fundamental part of the shinobi system from the very beginning, rather than the outside, malevolent forces they were presented to be in Part 1. In Part 1, all the adults know the Nine-Tailed Fox Spirit. In Part 2, all the adults know the Nine-Tailed Fox & the group of monsters it belongs to: the Tailed Beasts.
Anyway, that's my take on this. Feel free to agree or disagree.
I pretty much agree. I prefer the idea that the tailed beasts are individuals with their own origins, goals, power levels, personalities and whatnot.
Making them part of the same group but more so such a lame group founded by aliens is just a terrible decision imo. We don't get cool individual stories of their origins. We don't get ambiguity at what separates something like the 1 tails from a giant toad like gamabunta? None of that.
@@phoenixwithsomeflair Same. I really wish the series expanded upon the mythological aspect of these beings the series obviously took inspiration from, giving them individual attributes that make each of them unique rather than imposing a power ranking among the nine (the series could effectively still make the Nine-Tails the most destructive / malevolent by nature but it doesn't necessarily have to be the strongest). And while we're at it, I realize after rewatching other people's reaction to the series that I actually prefer parts of the story that tackle the geopolitical aspect of the world of Naruto, rather than the Kekkei Genkai + Bijuu Bomb spamfest it eventually became. It makes the world setting feel more alive. Part 2 could've expanded upon this, introducing us to different internal politics & conflict, relationships among nations (including each nation's allies & enemies), belief systems (should there be any) surrounding their own mythological spirit (preferably with less emphasis on the number of their tails as a power measuring stick), & how all of these combined affect the actions of our characters within the story. Sure, we got snippets of that in the War Arc, but that's what they are: snippets. The series didn't even bother easing the reader / viewer into getting to know these Villages that are not named Konoha & Suna (& Kumo to an extent, but I'd say what we got from them wasn't enough), & just dropped the entire lot into the War Arc. Kishi introducing albino God Aliens just so he could have his own DBZ / Kaiju battles was a big mistake in my opinion.
@@Sephy723 You know I couldn't have said it better myself haha
Like why couldn't they be different in their origins? Several could be experiments, others naturally born from natural energy, several could have even been sages who transformed into their animal, etc. It would add a lot I think.
I also would have wanted the nine tails to be the most destructive but specifically I wanted it to be the most abused, hateful, possibly the youngest, and definitely the most impatient of all these 'demons'. Not necessarily the strongest but it could be the one to burn through its chakra the fastest with the least efficiency.
But for the 'demons' in general I wanted them to sort of be considered as different things throughout the series. Guardians, parasites, forces of nature, divine beings akin to yokai (literally what they were based on haha), etc. Really hype up their image and present them as the world's generally speaking most destructive individual forces, capable of destroying even well fortified military strongholds on their own such as a shinobi village. That it takes clever planning and lots of hell to capture and/or kill even one of these things if it's willing to fight you.
I feel much the same though when it comes to the politics. It would have been dope to actually expand upon the relationships of the military and civilian powers of the series (such as the daimyo and the shinobi villages). Also it would have been awesome if the Akatsuki integrated into in a federation of sorts with all of the small nations that had been abused over these wars. Have Pain really showcase the pain of smaller nations by them all being allies lol
Have Obito even possibly agree with that since he also wanted to ultimately end war. Sure he has his other motives but that infighting just enriches the experience in this case I think haha
I found it a bit disappointing that the only capable fighting force was small micro nations of mercenaries tbh. Have conscript peasant soldiers, professional commoner soldiers, samurai, and of course mercenary shinobi. Have these competing factions fight for influence in each nation and show how nation's are entrenched by some factions for a multitude of practical, cultural, historic and even religious reasons.
Imagine how cool it would be if why some nations fought so damn hard for freedom was because they were ruled by other nations in the past? That would be so cool!
And considering this is all based on Japan, why is there no imperial dynasty(ies)? Imagine how cool that would be but also for different nations to have different yokai/gods that they prefer, such as the land of Fire ofc worshipping Amaterasu more than any other divine being?
Like gosh the possibilies were just there! D:
@@Sephy723 weren't tailed beasts a forbidden subject in naruto part 1 at least?
@@garywebb2432 The Tailed Beasts, as a concept, didn't even exist in Part 1 (at some point, Shukaku was even supposed to be the corrupted spirit of a human). In fact, the term was never mentioned in Part 1 at all, despite them being a driving motivator for the Akatsuki's actions in Part 2. IIRC, the Nine-Tails Fox Spirit (not Beast, but spirit, as it was called in Part 1) was only a forbidden topic in relation to Naruto as a means by the Third Hokage to protect the child from unwarranted hate by the villagers. The Fox spirit by itself wasn't a taboo topic.
when a retcon like this drastically changes how we understand the world in a piece of media, im always put off. the world in part 1 naruto in general is just so drastically different.
I think it works because we mainly see things through Naruto's perspective, and frankly, he's an idiot. He doesn't know much about the world around him so the world seems different as the story progresses the same way it seems different to a kid who doesn't really know anything as they grow into a young adult and learn more. That's why many stories follow an ignorant protagonist. Think about Harry Potter knowing nothing about the wizarding world and learning as the story progressed, or Luke Skywalker knowing nothing about the Force or Jedi. Both of those franchises also featured some major retcons in their world building as the protagonist learned more.
@@jayb8934we saw many POVs from non Naruto perspectives in part 1. They were all just as ignorant until suddenly becoming tailed beast experts in 2.
I agree and I've said the same thing.
For those who do not realize, Kitsune and Tanuki are natural rivals in Japanese folklore, as Naruto and Gaara would rival and oppose each other initially.
This is a pretty good example of why retcons aren't always a bad thing, sometimes they add stuff that makes for very interesting storytelling
Definitely
Naruto Shippuden is utter shite, storywise.
@@khust2993 You don't have any proof
@@AK-MS27 ain’t that when they became gods?
@@benjtg And how is that objectively bad?
Shukaku meet kurama in part one: :|
Shukaku meet kurama in part two: "you sly fox" "one tail mean i am number one" "more tails doesn't imply anything stfu"
He didn't really meet kurama in part 1. In the manga naruto and gamabunta don't turn into the nine tails, they just turn into a giant fox
I know it was only a filler arc but I loved the Guren arc with the 3 tails! A pretty setting, more of Orochimaru's schemes and the curse mark, Tobi and Deidara shenanigans and Obito using his real voice for a short scene was great. The 3 tails was exciting and Guren was an interesting character. It was nice that the anime had the 3 tails recognize Naruto and they brought Guren (and Yukimaru and Gozu) back in the last episode!
"Obito using his real voice" You mean Madara's voice, or Obito's true voice?
Obito's true voice. I watched the sub but can't remember how it goes. But in the dub, there's a moment where Obito is running around, sees the 3 tails and Yukimaru and comments on it. The voice he used for the line was the same one for the English dub Obito. It was a nice little touch in that filler. Pretty sure the sub does it too. I think the scene is on TH-cam
I thought putting Guren and Yukimaru in the last episode was a nice touch as well
Guren was a cool character but I hated Yukimaru. I wanted to commit sudoku with his personality and mannerisms, "the one to return to" BS or whatever they kept hitting us over the head with, the constant camelia motif, and all the flashbacks. It was soul-crushingly slow and was about 25 episodes too long. It was brutal. May be the worst filler in all of Naruto for me.
Bro that's the worst filler alongside the boat one
While Shukaku is obviously weaker than Kurama, I don't think the power difference was as vast as you say in the video:
-Naruto had help from Gamabunta, who also managed to body Kurama for a short while
-Gamabunta took a bad hit from Shukaku that almost took him out
-Naruto+Bunta didn't really "defeat" Shukaku. They just re-sealed him by waking up Gara.
edit: Also, I think I remember Gamabunta explicitly saying that Shukaku was not yet at full power.
idk, i still disagree
The 2 tails straight up lost a clean fight to Kakuzu, and Gamabunta is significantly weaker than Tendo Pain and Sage Naruto (Sage Naruto seemed to think he would only get in the way).
I think there is a *vast* power cliff between Shukaku and Kurama, and the War Arc may have bridged the gap by making the lesser tailed beasts fairly equal.
@@hihi-nm3uy Only thing I disagree with is using info from Shippuden to support the argument. We should be looking at it as if Shippuden has not yet occurred.
Gamabunta admitted he couldn’t take more hits from Shukaku’s air bullet so it wasn’t one sided at all
Also I think it was made clear Shukaku was slowly reaching his full power
Which makes sense since in part 2’s retcon, it explains why he didn’t use a tailed beast ball
It was made clear in part 1 that Shukaku was slowly powering up and that Gamabunta could not fight him fully at his full power
Kishimoto added, which I think was a terrible idea, that the nine tails could take on the other 8 and probably win. By the end of the series, we’re supposed to believe that half of the kyuubi, which would have consumed kid Naruto had he fully transformed, was in leagues with shukaku and gamabunta.
Narratively, the strength we see goes Kurama>> Gyūki> Shukaku. Yet Kishimoto put in a statement saying that more tails=more strength. I think the addition of the other 7 beasts made the Akatsuki’s and Obito/Madara’s plans more substantive, but I can’t agree with the more tails part, just based on how the story is written
Let’s not forget the whole thing with Rin having the Sanbi sealed into her by force which forced Kakashi to kill her. Something that Madara orchestrated to make Obito more powerful but also willing to carry out his plan and revive him with the rinnegan through nagato. If Kishimoto had the concept of tailed beasts solidified when Kakashi and Jiraiya had a chat about the Akatsuki and their goals Kakashi would have definitely mention something about tailed beasts and their power that is always being something being sought after by people who are no good
Honestly I liked the concept of the 10 tails being a world tree that sprung to life to regain the chakra that was stolen from it, it's design left much to be desired and could have been a tree monster with tails resembling tree roots.
THE ELDEN BEAST??????????????? ngl if ten-tails was anything like the elden beast the entire war arc would be worth it. Just this giant, almost formless being, resembling both beast, trees and man.
@@ottoia9126 That would have been awesome!
I agree with you.
Kishimoto just came up with new things trying to connect many dots while he was writing it than already mapped out.
The best example would be Hajime San (AOT) he already mapped out everything that's why we can see things are connected from start to finish. Where as Naruto fall so short.
It contradict so much yet still Naruto's fandom will never accept this fact.
Yeah, the thing Kishimoto did was discovery writing.
George R. R. Martin with Game of Thrones and George Lucas with the OG and Prequel Star Wars triloligies did the same. You star to write and you will find out what you want in the middle of the story. So no ending for a long time.
While Isayama did what J. K. Rowling did with Harry Potter and imagining the end first then going back and see how did we get here, so you can connect the dots more easely.
Fullmetal Alchemist also does a brilliant job setting up stuff that happens later on like why Hohenheim abandoned his sons or how impactful the Ishvalan Civil War was when they show what happened in it.
@@KaiKrimson56 yeah, it’s funny how the 2003 version of FMA is the opposite of this.
I always personally disliked how the tailed beasts were handled. The demons and animal summons gave us such an interesting first look into the potential wildlife of the Naruto world-and their relationship with people-but it never materialized into much of anything. I distinctly remember wanting to see more of what Shino or Kiba's clans were about, and especially what Kakashi's opinion was of the latter, because he seemed to quite like dogs himself.
The conflict with Black Shadow in Ultimate Ninja 4, I still consider canon simply because it provides such a satisfying narrative that includes these aspects. It fleshes out the world, and tells a story about people and the demon that terrorizes them.
I think the wildlife is still fascinating enough with the likes of the great frogs and Snakes but part of me wishes kurama being a demon that’s a natural occurrence was still a thing
I don't think the Bijuu were a full retcon. The parts around the 10 tails almost certainly weren't planned from the start, but I do think there were always more to connect Shukaku and Kurama from the very start. I pretty clearly remember categorising Shukaku as the 1 tailed demon and theorising about the possible 2-8 tailed demons with my siblings back when we were first watching Naruto and only had the part 1 info to go off.
The reason the reveal of the Bijuu and Jinchuriki felt organic is that there were always enough similarities between the two. These walking natural disasters that could only be be stopped by sealing them away. What I think happened was that they were always meant to be part of the same group, but the full story and concepts around them weren't fully realised until much later, so only the simpler similarities were shown to us first.
A retcon is a retcon. No need to defend it since retcons themselves aren't inherently bad. Example being Dragonball. Goku and Piccolo/Kami were never planned to be aliens, but it just works anyway
@@jakerogers6062 Buddy, stop. I get that you're a massive Naruto fan and you desperately want to believe Kishi planned every inched of the story, but that doesn't the fact the Bijus were retrospectively changed into being biju.
You can see this with Shukaku's lore going from a "old monk being sealed in a teakette" and Kyuubi just "appearing" out of nowhere one night. This is called retrospective story telling, presenting new information that changes the interpretation of something we know.
Not to mention Naruto and Gaara were never called referred to as Jinchuuriki until part 2 nor was anyone Biju/Jinchuuriki experts until part 2. This is a blatant indication of a retcon can be.
I totally get wanting to defend your beloved series and believing your favourite author planned every inch of the story, I get that, you don't need to blind yourself like this. Everyone who's not biased toward the series has already admitted it's a retcon and that it's not a bad thing
@@jakerogers6062 Just because you thought it was obvious doesn't mean it wasn't a retcon. I really don't doubt that Kishimoto might have planned some connection between Kurama and Shukaku, but there some pretty hard evidence that he had the idea of the beasts as a group later.
@@BubblesChika I didn't say it would be bad if it was a retcon, and I already said parts of it were clearly changed. I just disagree with the idea that there weren't already supposed to be more connections between the creatures that would end up becoming the Bijuu even if the nature of those connections was retconned in some way.
@@jakerogers6062 Because it's a clearly a retcon, kid. You can throw projections all you want, but it doesn't the fact that it is, little brat.
The Bijuu were never common knowledge in part 1, kid. You can see this in the Chunin Exams with no one knowing Gaara was the one-tailed Jinchuuriki. Add to the fact Shukuku was never referred to as *the one-tailed bijuu* until part 2. (All of a sudden they're now incredibly common knowledge that even side characters like Chiyo know what they are and what their containers are called)
Even more so when you realize Gaara is the only Jinchuuriki who doesn't have a red aura shrouding his body when he releases his Bijuu power which was made common for Jinchuuriki and you have a recipe for a full retcon.
Like it or not, kid, your beloved Kishimoto retconned the Bijuu into being bijuu. All the evidence is plain to see once you've read the manga
"You can't plan 700 chapters ahead"
*Looks at Oda and One Piece*
Hmm
Oda planned Op since he was a kid unlike ever other manga author
Oda “making a random fish girl in chapter cover number 100s”
Oda making her a character a decade later
Meanwhile kishi and toriyama forget characters exists and then precede to leave them in the dark lol
(Btw huge Naruto fan meh nostalgia dbz fan but respect 1P and oda bcuz he really in his own level of world building and storytelling)
The general gist of the story yes...
But even Oda invents/changes things as he gets on and he surely isn't excluded from editors' interfering in his plans and desires.
😏😏😏
You can really tell it was a last minute concept because I think it was mentioned for the longest time that each jincuriki* was disliked or hated by their respective villages like Gaara
I think the kyubi cloak was post to be exclusive to the nine tails that naruto had in part 1 but by giving 2-9 the orange cloak an garra not having one it just was definitely gonna be a retconn because lots of peoples main question why is garras cloak so different they should of just gave the orange cloak to naruto an gave the other tailed beast there own special cloaks because that’s the main reason
Shukaku was extremely powerful and the ONLY Tailed beast to cause Madara to lose an arm. It was even stated in part one by Gamabunta "We have to win this before he gets to full power". You just dislike Shukaku for whatever reason, and Ignore any feats that show how strong he is, and use Naruto beating a Shukaku who wasn't using any of his stronger techniques due to not being at full power to say he's weak. He never used his Bijuu Dama, sealing jutsu, Sand bullets, or any of that in part 1, when any of these would have Negged Part 1 naruto AND Gamabunta.
I don't dislike Shukaku. And Shukaku didn't make Madara lose an arm. What Made him lose the arm was the combined tail attack from all tailed beasts.
He never used that in part 1 because that didn't exists in part 1
@@DygoKnight It doesn’t change the fact that you downplayed shukaku though. He might not have as much raw power as Kurama or even Gyuki, but he does have more tricks and abilities.
Yeah shukaku was strong that gamabunta said that he was no match for him and was jumping all around so that shukaku doesn’t catch him
And gamabunta was using water with nature energy that has a high efficiency on sand yet gamabunta could have easily lost
And gamabunta was more skilled than a raged shukaku that’s not at full power
@@Apotheosis0 Like wat ? 🤔
The Naruto story fell off a cliff when it became less about strategic ninja battles and more about spamming broken spells, bloodline magics, and kaiju.
Yeah it’s called progression a lot of story’s are like that dragonball, onepiece, bleach, even hxh a tiny bit they can’t always be consistent with those things and naruto still tries to use strategy at some points
@@gintokithegoat429 There is progression, and then there is taking your initial story and throwing it out the window in favor of something completely different.
I know some people adore the direction the post time-skip story took, I however found it dull and trite.
I agree here, the very first arc shows us what an elite jonin battle was meant to be, then we got to see a kage level battle in konoha crush, these were supposed to be top level battles
Then you get to Shippuden and if you ain't either tanking bijuu bombs, defeating bijuu, or using hax to one shot everything, you're not very relevant
Yo Naruto, the hyuga rival the Uchiha, and their eyes rival theres
One sees chakra lines, the other sends you to another dimension, brings back the dead, steals you soul, gives you a giant warrior avatar, burns through , has the ultimate genjutsu (tsukuyomi) , but not really, because they have an even STRONGER genjutsu (izanagi) that ANYONE can use
Yes the power cliffing was nuts
Kakashi went from being out for a week from using sharingan for 5 minutes to sending people to the next dimension like nobody's businesses
Here's the rasengan, an A-rank jutsu even the 4th hokage had trouble creating, it's an ultimate jutsu that has no chakra nature, just kidding, it's unfinished, here's a rasengan that's a BOMB that also rips your opponent apart at the cellular level, NOW it's a ranged attack, but you need sage mode! Nevermind, now you can spam it regardless! Even better, this jutsu is also incomplete, it's based on the bijus bombs! Here's a biju bomb power, but it's hard to do! I was kidding, now EVERYONE be spamming biju bombs!
It's a lot more power escalation than is in any way reasonable
Sakura, despite never training mind you, goes from barely handling sasori, WITH the aid of lady chiho, able to do nothing against Pain, to suddenly being able to sneak attack kaguya, sure would have been helpful if she used that power to fight pain
You must learn to see beneath the beneath? To see subterfuge?
Okay kakashi
That no longer holds water, everyone has bombs
Yeah I agree. One of my favorite aspects about early Naruto was that everyone really felt grounded in their capabilities except for some exceptions like our resident demons Shukaku and Kurama. Beings that transcended the mold and were able to destroy any strong military by themselves. That the only way to take them down was by great loss and wearing them down.
The tactical battles and strategic thinking of higher level combatants to try and counter each other was just so enjoyable. The space where it felt like any slip up could end your life, even if you are a jonin against a group of genin. Where a powerful technique had to still be cleverly applied in order to work effectively.
Bloodline techniques but especially the sharingan had genuine limitations, that gaining more power came at greater cost. Sasuke and Kakashi strained themselves using it. I wish that it was worse at copying jutsus so that it made Kakashi and Sasuke more exceptional or at least made their jobs more difficult and engaging.
Ofc there are some lame things. Namely Naruto shouldn't be able to summon 1000 clones at any point unless he tames Kurama entirely.
The demons could have had their own limits such as expending chakra but not being able to get it back without consuming things, something to give them their own incentives for wanting to not be captured and used by others.
There was just so much that Kishimoto could have done with a less crazy powerscaling. Exceptions can exist like Pain, but that's what makes him so incredible. He breaks the mold, but when even Ino, Choji, and Shikamaru can take down a member of the Akatsuki on their own, that's kind of absurd.
@@__En__ I agree mostly but I think that there were things that were absurd even in part 1.
Namely some bloodline techniques didn't seem to really have any downsides (Haku's Ice Release, Garra's Magnet Release) which is cool in its own right as it's like an intentional break in the power system. But at the same time it really set up the potential for things to get more crazy as time went on.
Saying that if Kishi just held his pen and didn't go crazy, those bloodline techniques would have been fine haha
One thing that bugged me was that gaara's transformation was radically different from Naruto's who progressed as he got more tails added to his 'cloak'. Stage 0 being he gets the red eyes, whiskers get thicker, ruffier hair, vains popping, longer nails, red chakra, stage 1; he gets the cloak that's shaped like a fox. pretty cool. stage 2 and 3, just an extra tail added, not that different. but 4, 6 and 8? More changes. 4 had his blood and chakra cover up the inside where he practically resembles Marvel's Carnage in a way. Stage 6 is when the bones formed, stage 8 he gets muscles but no skin, but then Kishi said "forget creativity" and just had the rest of the jinchuuriki's do it once he introcuded Bee (we did see Yugito fully transform on the spot ). I thought it was pretty cool that naruto had such a disturbing and kinda grotesque way of transforming that not only made him monstrous but that it also visibly hurt him (and even shortened his life span on top of that). Gaara's was just this goo like sand covering him up shaping to look like shukaku.
Yeah, I realized this years ago and I'd like to say thanks for pointing it out. I do think it's a change for the better, and it added a lot of intrigue to Shippuden, but there was nothing in the original show pointing that the Kyuubi and Shikaku were related. Nine tailed foxes are a thing in Japanese mythology, and Shikaku had one tail because that just tanooki biology.
Yeah,I pretty much realised it was retcon from the very first time I watched Naruto.The way the talked about the demons from part 1 changed a lot in part.Heck we didn't even know the vessels of said demons were called Jinjuriki.Nevertheless,I still really like this adittion to the story,despite it being a retcon.
It def gave an explanation to wtf these demons really are
Retcons aren’t inherently bad things
@@N-Khal I'm not saying that theh are inherentely bad.All I'm saying is that I realised it was a retcon,yet I still liked the idea of that particular retcon.
@@panosstef4413 it wasn’t a retcon. That’s just head canon
100%. You can see this in Shukaku's nonexistent reaction to Naruto joint-transforming himself and Gamabunta into his "apparent brother" Kurama during their 1st fight. At the time, both Shukaku and Nine-tails were just Japanese mythology characters
I like the Tailed Beast and Jinchuriki storyline parts of Naruto Shippuden for the most part. Probably the only problem I have with them is the design for their cloaked forms. Pretty much all look the same except slightly shaped differently. Would've preferred more unique transformations like Shukaku had
I can see that, the two tails could've had blue flame transformations for its jinchuriki
Kishimoto might have this 2 demon at first because it is common knowledge in Jp folklore , the enemy or rival of kitsune is tanuki . He could stop at just this 2 but maybe some new addition or commentary from his editor demanded him to expand the numbers , not just kyuubi ,but starting from ichibi, nibi , sanbi and so on. But the downside of this expansion , kishimoto didn't have time to show the other bijuus abilities in the manga apart from in the convoluted war arc. Only in the anime the bijuus have some dedicated episodes for them.
Yh bro exactly, I thought this would be concrete with evidence but it is just his opinions but hes saying it like its facts
@@j2sketchy except shukaku was originally not a tailed beast or a demon but the soul of a mad monk who was twisted by evil and his soul was sealed in a jar and he wasnt sealed in gaara but was allowed to possess him and the tanuki was the form his soul took after posession, it was later retconned to that monk being a jinchuuriki who wasnt evil and had shukaku sealed before he died or was fully posessed.
@@HovektheArtist where did you get that info on the origin of was explaining the Shukaku origin?
@@j2sketchy the original manga
Yeah,and characters like Naruto and Gaara originally were meant to use magic because of the Bijuus abilities and unnatural power ,not ninjutsu.
I'd say matatabi ,2nd beast, looks coolest
Another plot hole that stems from all this is the village shunning Naruto (and Gaara, for that matter) because of the Fox in the first place.
In Shippuden, it’s shown a lot of times that the Jinchuuriki are assets, and it’s in the best interest of the shinobi to train and nurture that asset.
Plus, Kushina was brought into the village to host the Fox, so it’s not like they didn’t know how things worked.
6:27 Actually I remember it was stated that Shukaku wasn't at full power, and it would take time for him to reach his full strength after Tanuki Neiri no Jutsu, which I recall is one of the reasons Gamabunta mentioned the battle needed to be finished quickly. Although I agree with everything else. I would think most people realize Bijuu is a retconned (a good one at that).
Similarly, I felt Shukaku was retconned quite nicely, especially Shukaku's original backstory about being a vengeful spirit of a priest named Shukaku sealed in a tea kettle, later retconned into an urban legend made up by the citizens about Shukaku's Jinchuriki, Bunpuku.
Changing the spirits to tailed beast was smooth. What wasn't smooth was naruto's KCM concept. That was just lame and boring. Naruto was so cool when he showed up during the pain attack with those toads. I was expecting the next toad master who also is the hero of leaf, as the story progesses.
Then next episode he gets beat up by some cloud girl and is begging the raikage for his boyfriend and laters turns yellow colour and gets jutsus he didn't even trained and everything is a type of rasengan😂. I was disappointed af. Kishimoto should hve went the sage mode path and explore all the toad abilities instead of that boring KCM. And the final transformation should be just a fox.
Up untill the pain arc, you had to learn and practice your techniques before using in battle. But after that arc, its just about unlocking abilities. Everyone just magically knows everything and gets it right on the first try 😂
I remember wondering why they changed shukaku from being the ghost of a monk that went mad and his spirit was sealed in a jar after beciming a demon that basically posessed gaara and his sand, to that monk having gone mad because he was the 1 tails host who went mad from no sleep.
Well the monk had shukaku for so long before gaara people thought he was shukaku. The retcon makes sense when you realize that shukaku was the only tailed beast not given to a hidden village by hashirama and instead captured by the 1st kazekage.
*It’s called WORLDBUILDING not Retcon. A retcon would mean it contradicts something established before. Like saying there are only 2 Massive Demon chakra creatures, they didn’t say that. Even if Shukaku was a sand spirit nothing contradicted the existence of a TAILED BEAST GROUP. It was simply not established 🙂.
Retcon means retroactive continuity. It doesn't have to contradict anything to be a retcon.
I never noticed this detail, I think you might be right! It makes sense to me why Shukaku is exponentially weaker than the other tailed beasts - but your other points all seem valid. Kishimoto probably paused to think of the Akatsuki's main goal between parts 1 and 2, it makes sense that he'd flesh out this Bijuu idea then. Good video :)
This is actually why 1 tails and 9 tails charka cloaks were supposed to be special…
Sadly this was thrown away in Shippuden.. and they just made all the charka cloaks look like the 9 tails charka cloak :/
I would have preferred the Bijuus to be less "Godzilla"esque and more "Cthullhu".
Less big animals that can be nerfed by everyone and anyone(a Kage being able to hurt the Hachibi? Cme on) and more walking disasters who everyone is deatly afraid each with its own unique abilities lifted from Japanese folklore.
E.g: The Kyuubi actually being a cunning and terrifyingly smart wildcard who looks at Itachi Uchiha´s Tsukuyomi and treat it like an amusing parlor trick, and who fools everyone, in line with the depiction of kitsunes in folklore.
Thing is, Kishi always intended for them to be worldly Kaiju. Yes, the rest of the bijuu are were add ojs, but he liked giant monsters fighting .
I was thinking on this too. The tailed beasts are psychologically just humans, which makes sense for the characters to befriend them but it's so boring.
Bro boruto didn't exist in Narutoverse it was Naruto s tsukuyomi dream 💀. All kaguya s revival,momoshiki invasion Kakashi s susano, obito s death , ao betrayal, kurama death,Kara, Isshiki,baryonn mode ,jougan,tenseigan,karma,kawaki all was part of Naruto s dream😂😅
Kaguya and the Otsutsuki are not bad in concept, they are just bad in execution.
I personally find them bad in concept too. I really don't like this sort of centralized narrative that everything stems from them.
It feels too contrived and confining for a world as nuanced and expansive as Naruto.
Like imagine if the tailed beasts were all their own separate things with their own separate origins. How cool it would be to learn how they got to where they are at, what issues they've had along the way, but still with some ambiguity of how they are even possible to begin with.
That kind of mystery and decentralization of the power system and the world building is much more rewarding imo.
@@phoenixwithsomeflair Here's the thing though, the only reason it feels contrived is due to how poorly it has been handled.
The tailed beasts don't need separate origins, their origins are already pretty cool as it is with the whole being created by a god from a goddess who is his mother for a grand purpose.
Just giving them different origins for the sake of it or to make them different without thinking through how to execute it and planning it out thoroughly would take away from the world building.
@@boredfangerrude That's where we differ I think. Even if Kishimoto had planned out this goddess plotline from the beginning, I still wouldn't care about it. I liked the lower scale of the world, where these supernatural elements felt mysterious and without a concrete explanation.
I like the idea that the demons could have their own potential to have made an active decision in their creations/transformations rather than just being made just cause.
It would expand the world building in that with multiple origins comes a multitude of ways to express not only how these creatures got to where they are, but what events in their lives led to it. We could see a magnitude of places, people, and events that would create these monsters. Some could have even been unwilling in the actual transformation due to various circumstances but with that difference it makes those ones even more interesting.
Tl;dr I really like decentralized world building, especially for a story like Naruto. Having the tailed beasts share the same extremely centralized origin is boring to me, especially when it comes from something so off the wall like alien gods.
@@boredfangerrude I agree though in that if you aren't thinking about your world building, it is likely to get worse haha
It's not hard to think about different origins for each demon though and to make them compelling in their own right imo. And to give them different motives, actions, general powerscaling and the like in the present day.
@@phoenixwithsomeflair The thing is, your preference isn't necessarily good writing and world building.
I’ve always thought it was pretty obvious the Tailed Beasts was a concept he came up with later on.
Another thing to give credit to the idea that there was only the shukaku and the kyuubi in the first part is that the shukaku is clearly inspired on japanese folk tales, in which Kitsunes and Tanukis are usually mortal enemies and hate each other as both of them are species of transforming tricksters and tend to antagonize each other so of course gaara being a reflection of naruto would have a tanuki to his kitsune, they were a set only two
I always thought the way the tailed beast were introduced felled kind of weird, considering we have never heard the term ''tail beast'' pre-timeskip. They could have just called them demons, since that is a term used in part 1. It would have made the retcon less obvious.
I’m glad he created them.
It’s no secret Naruto is heavily inspired by Japanese Folklore, by tales like Jiraya the Galant.
Even the Transformation jutsu might be a nod to how the stories about the Nine Tails were about beautiful women being Femme Fatale’s and bringing ruin.
Therefore if the Tailed beast didn’t exist, I’m 90% sure the plot of Naruto would have gone something like this. After defeating the nine tails, the 4th hokage and the monster were reborn together in the form of Naruto.
I mean kid Naruto never beat Shukaku at full power nor by himself he needed Gamabunta who used all of his chakra to fight him and then hold him back long enough for Naruto to wake Gaara up.
Yeah this was very clear to me too. It's very telling that the only two tailed beasts happen to be a figure based on the kitsune (which has 9 tailes in myth) and a big sandmonster that just happens to have a tail
I always thought it would have been kinda cool if they all had roughly the same power potential in regards to raw power, how much chakra they have, etc. But with each one having different fighting styles based on the type of creature they are. So for example, the Nine Tails is a fox, so it's very fast and mobile and can land devastating attacks with it's teeth and claws. The Three Tails is a turtle, so it's much more slow and less physically damaging on land, but has a tough outer shell to tank damage and gets a mobility boost in water that can be used to launch it into enemies to use it's weight and hard shell to its advantage. Etc. On top of this, these attributes could apply to their Jinchuuriki as well, giving each one a fighting style reminiscent of their Tailed Beast while they're tapping into its chakra.
This would have fit in better with the themeing established in Part 1 around Naruto being nobody special who rises to greatness through guts and hard work rather than through fate or destiny;
1. There could be an emphasis on Naruto having to rely on the Nine Tails chakra less and less as the story progresses. He grows in skill and power on his own to the point that he no longer has any need to use it, and perhaps even finds a way to remove the Nine Tails from him completely (Keep in mind that it was only established later that removing a Tailed Beast from their host kills the host. It didn't have to be written that way).
2. The other Jinchuuriki being on more or less the same level as him makes him significantly less special, and allows them to exist as powerful allies/opponents for him to eventually surpass once he outgrows his need for the Nine Tails.
3. Just because he outgrows his need for the Nine Tails chakra doesn't mean he doesn't tame the hatred within him. The Nine Tails (Or Kurama if the name is kept) could even eventually develop into something of a kindred spirit protecting the Village. This would allow the Nine Tails to exist as an ally without needing to exist inside Naruto.
Personally, I think the 10 Juubis opened the door for the absolute worst possible part of the Naruto universe; the Gods of the Ninja. The moon dwelling race is single-handedly the worst addition to the series. They laid the foundations for the DBZ-esque infinite powercreep that destroyed what made Naruto such a stand-out to me in Shonen Jump. It also gave us most of the abysmally “meh” characters, fillers, and plot the series has to offer.
Kishimoto did do a lot of strange pulls toward the end with the whole Kaguya and alien beings thing...but he has admitted that some things he wanted in the series he didn't get to do as well. Biggest example of that is the Kote from Boruto, Kishimoto said he wanted something like that even back before Naruto began according to the Zai no sho databook. You can tell he really tried to avoid 'modern' weapons until Boruto was made and handed off to someone else while he went on to other projects. The only thing that slipped by was in the Wave arc in the manga at the market with Tazuna and Sakura there's a matchlock rifle behind the counter...that's the only gun looking object that appears until Boruto where they have a freaking minigun that fires the scroll bullets with Aoi.
Yea I think Kishi guns are a mistake since that would make the majority of shinobi useless or not as efficient
@@aceclover758 If you are going by fantasy fire breathing Naruto style ninja then yeah..historically though the Iga clan specifically LOVED to use gunpowder and were early adopters of the matchlock gun when it came over..they even had proto-guns they made themselves before then. Kishimoto was going more for the legends of the ninja than actual ninja...it should be pretty obvious given that ninja were more about stealth and subterfuge than full on balls to the wall combat...especially the kind of combat we see in Naruto with little care for stealth at all.
@@ShinKyuubino body will watch Naruto without these types of fight like titans fight and giant animals and they existed form chapter one
you really got people thinking creativity is a retcon
Itachi and Kisame mention that Gaara is not in Konoha so we can asume that akatsuki is haunting shukaku too
I remember reading the manga and realising that the time skip, when the writer went on hiatus, is basically when he realised Naruto was getting popular and he had to figure out the answers to all the questions he'd raised and needed to flesh things out a lot
I always figured it was something like the knowledge of how many tails shows your strength, so Shikaku hated going by "one tail" because it implied he was the weakest tailed beast.
Because he is
@@BubblesChika No
@@Self84 Yes
I mean, he got wrecked by Gamabunta pretending to be Kurama. That pretty much says how weak he is.
The fact that most people haven’t notice it mean he retcon well that pretty good
The tailed beast retcon is a big part of why I don't really dislike the idea of retcons in manga. Is this particular retcon a little more sloppy than it could be? Definitely, however I feel like revealing that Gaara and Naruto are just two small parts of this larger legacy and shared identity makes the story just seem so much more wide. It also changes the nine tails from something that Naruto has to overcome or a tool to be used into an actual person that he forms a relationship with and I really that pereonally.
it definitely made a bigger and arguably better story, it just shows a lack of foresight that makes rewatching awkward
@@333dae Yes, but... foresight is a luxury that doesn't always work for weekly shonen stories. Spend too long setting up a story and readers could just get disinterested. Compare that to a monthly shonen like AoT or FMA which has 30-50 pages to dole out a plot, develop the plot and include action while giving its writers like 4x the time to draft things out. For writers in WSJ it just makes more sense to start small and retcon to expand. Before Kishi wrote Naruto he already penned some one shots and short runs and had a lot of those get rejected, I'm sure he already knew this.
@@maagic2031that the issue with the weekly manga it didn't give kishimoto enough time to focus on side characters and look what happens to the kauz fight and health issues as well kishimoto got to hospital because of the weekly manga the monthly mangy is way better than weekly except for boruto how is a monthly manga and nothing happened in it
The reveal of kyuubi having a name after spending 20 years in Naruto's body sounded dumb to me
I could be miss remembering something, but wasn’t Shukaku referred to as a mad monk that turned into a powerful demon while meditating in the desert when his lore was first brought up. I could be mixing stuff from other fanfic based stories, but I could swear this was talked about in canon.
Yep he was a mad monk that went on a murder spree and his soul was sealed in a kettle, where its power grew and became more demon like, and he wasnt sealed inside gaara, he was basically a ghost possessing him
i kinda figured this was the case, but i never really thought about exactly at what point in the story did it happen. Great video!
honestly i think that the writers of naruto took the timeskip as an opportunity to figure out what the point of the akatsuki even was because i dont think they were entirely sure what they wanted them to do. you can kind of see how shippuden sometimes feels like a different show based on how much new information we get vs the original show that seemed to have lost direction after sasuke left.
Haven’t finished the video but Shukaku was initially supposed to be a human at one point
He pulled it off really well because I don't remember a point in which I didn't think there was not a group of other seven guys with similar powers as Naruto and Gaara.
Though part of that must have been due to all the fansite talking about that legend of the tournament of the nine tailed beasts, which somehow fit better with the powers of the Akatsuki than what we got for the Bijuu.
I don't know why but I always assumed the tailed beasts powers to mirror a Fibbonaci row.
When Shukaku is a one and and the two tails is just as strong as him (he could also be twice as strong doesn't realy matter) then the three tails is as strong as the two below him put together and the four tails is then the sum of both three and two tails.
So going with this and the powerlevels being meassured in Shukakus we get this.
One tail = 1
Two tails = 2
Three tails = 3
Four tails = 5
Six tails = 8
Seven tails = 13
Eight tails = 21
Nine tails = 34
Ten tails = 55
As one can see here the Nine tails would be as strong as the tailed beasts 1 through 7 put together plus two additional Shukakus in top.
Same is true for eight tails but for him it's 1 through 6 plus two Shukakus and so on.
Other concept that sustain that tailbeast didn't exist in part one is the fact that in shippuden is pretty clear that basic every village wants a tailbeast to use as a weapon ( they are nukes for the villages) and jinchuurikis are pretty known weapon in the naruto universe when you read shippuden, but them why people on part one treated naruto like shit, really, in shippuden you see that jinchuurikis are feared yes but not bullied, because people knnow that they are a valueable asset for the village and a walking nuclear bomb but naruto on part 1 is a walking nuke that people bully, treat like gargabe etc, who the fuck would bully a person that can unleash a weapon that can destroy a country. The ninetails in part 1 like you said was nothing more than a uncontralable demon sealed in naruto.
Shouldn't the 10 tails really have like....... 45 tails.....?
It should be noted that originally, Kishi actually planned for Naruto to actually be the 9 tails....
Honestly I think the story would have been more interesting if rather than the tailed beasts being parts of this monster with incredible power they could have kept them as demons with each having different powers it could have avoided the introduction of Kaguya but also would have given more questions such as are there more demons out there, where did the beasts come from, why do the akatsuki want them and could have lead into a more demonic feel into where chakra came from but it's only a thought if you enjoy the regular story that's fine by you and I'm not saying it's an improvement but would change the story.
I had this convo with my friend the other day. And im glad u made this video as we have the same thought process.
If anything, all the retcons in Naruto prove that Kishimoto has an amazing talent for adding elements to his story that added amazing worldbuilding and expanded the mythologies, lore and backstories of his manga in very interesting ways without creating huge issues in the previous story. Which makes the whole horrible Kaguya retcon an even bigger mistery.
I mean the fact that Shukaku and Kurama supposedly hate eachother so much and always bicker but never said a word or even recognized eachother when Naruto transformed Gamabunta into him says a lot
Kind of like the whole 5 chakra natures
I know it's a bit off-topic, but I just farted.
interesting analysis. enjoyed it
Well that’s where plot comes in…. A huge contradiction to you theory is jiraiya (preparing Naruto for the akatsuki) the akatsuki (wanting to kidnap Naruto) and the chakra necklace Naruto got from tsunade there is a bunch of other plot points hinting at the tails beast. I mean well thought out theory tho.
On one tails "being the weakest", Shukaku stated his power was still growing after sleeping possum and it is evident that it was not at full strength in part 1 since it did not use bijuu bomb like it did in part 2, the one tail also seemingly did better against Madara than any other tailed beast so I would not say it is the weakest.
Other retcons:
Uzamaki being a relevant clan
Continued from above, Naruto’s fast recovery time, high stamina and chakra reserves are not solely because of the Kyuubi. They are his Uzamaki traits but enhanced by the kyuubi
The Third Hokage was the only ninja ever considered a “God of Shinobi”. Harishima didn’t have that title until late in part 2 and was far weaker than he was eventually made to be. If he had that title, Harishima would’ve been referred to as a God in part 1.
I personally believe Minato was never meant to be Naruto’s dad until part 2 started
Same as Naruto was never meant to be a reincarnation of a god.
Naruto being that, the son of a Hokage and from a powerful clan prove Neji was right about destiny. Even discounting the Reincarnation detail, Naruto still has gifts. He didn’t come from nothing like Lee or Guy did.
No, Naruto was always the son of thr 4th Hokage, from chapter 1. The others that you mentioned yeah, retcons
When Hiruzen used reaper death seal on Orochimaru, he should've mentioned that it was a Uzumaki Clan jutsu instead of the fourth Hokage's jutsu
I also thought Neji was right because of Naruto being a reincarnation of Ashura (who's not a god, just the son of Rikudou Sennin, alien-human hybrid, as Kaguya was basically an alien).
But Zetsu also said that before Naruto and Sasuke, Hashirama and Madara, there were a lot of reincarnations, for ages. None of them did what Naruto did, even with them being reincarnations too.
It's up to what the reincarnation can do, and none of them did what Naruto did. He still tried his best, he still needed to learn a lot of things, etc. The same way, Jiraiya thought Nagato could be the child of prophecy, but neither Nagato or the reincarnations of Ashura could do what Naruto did.
Really, you think Naruto was always meant to be the son of the 4th Hokage?
I didn’t see any signs until part 2
I felt like he retconned that in when Jiraya talked to Tsunade about his parents before he left to the rain village
@@aceclover758 Itachi and Kisame showing up to the leaf for Naruto was kinda a sign when Itachi told Kakashi he was there for the "fourth Hokage's legacy". Usually a man's legacy is their child
I like Son Goku and the 6 tailed slug but all of them are pretty cool tbh. But I wonder why the 9 tails was the most powerful. Like did he train the most?
The more tails a kitsune has, the stronger it is
It had the most hatred. Which caused it to grow to massive size. So he’s also way bigger than the other tailed beasts. Naruto’s kurama chakra avatar is actually smaller than kurama himself, and the two halves of kurama are only half his original size.
The other eight tailed beasts are relative to each other. I bet the ones with more tails were stronger at first, but that was a thousand years ago, and the tailed beasts are capable of getting stronger and training. Kurama says more tails = more strength, but the eight tails disagrees, and even says Kurama’s “tail supremacy” is why Shukaku hates him so much.
He was mad
But shukaku? The guy who kept trying to break out, and went for murder? Not mad enough, try again
@@DeitySkullKid What’s your point? That the nine tails being more powerful due to having more hatred doesn’t make sense because Shukaku killed people?
In terms of anger and hatred, if first 8 tailed beasts are nukes, then the 9 tails is a hydrogen bomb. Just because the nine tails is overwhelmingly more angry and hateful than the others, doesn’t mean the other tailed beasts aren’t still packing enough hatred to level a city.
@@KnuttyEntertainment
Correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t Naruto originally supposed to be a ninja anime not people who cast “jitsu” to create a nuclear bomb
correct me if I'm wrong
It would've been better if the beast are recognized through their identity as a cryptids or mythological beasts counterpart than their number of tails making them unique to one another and give them more identity than "tailed best but lower than having 9"
Shukaku in part 1 would have recognized Kurama when Naruto and Gamabunta transformed into the Nine-tails
They honestly retconed them again in Boruto. They end up stating that the Otsutsuki could've just simply planted those trees on their own at any time. It makes me wonder what the point of the Akatsuki collecting them was and aside from being bad ass how did Madara not know about the Otsutsuki?
I don't like the Otsutsuki stuff, I would've preferred if they were an ancient clan in ruins
Yeah they pulled the dragon ball shifting into dragon ball z with space aliens where the aliens had to come to them basically
I mean realistically how on earth would Madara know about the Otsutsuki. All the info he has he got from the stone tablet.
Because they were an example of not having the will left to tell your editor no, and that if they want to do a sequel one upping your final boss again was a terrible idea for the IP over letting the world reset to more grounded ninja stories.
Anyone who follow and read manga long enough will know that, a lot of plot details are not really planned far because of the nature of the industry. If a manga didn't do well during the earlier chapters, they may not even survive long enough for any of the hinted plot point to progress.
It's only when a manga really blew up in popularity, that the publishers decide it will be in their best interest for an extended storyline. For Naruto, my guess is, the storyline that are already planned beforehand is only up to the point where Sasuke left. Afterwhich, the publisher probably sat Kishimoto down and request for something longer and deeper
For those who are much into naruto's lore:
First there was the Jubi(ten tails), a beast of immeasurable power that was defeated by the sage of the six paths, he then separated the beast in 9 parts each containing a portion of it's chakra, these new beasts all had tails from 9 to 1 representing the order they were created and how much of the Jubi's chakra they had (half of the previous beast) the order being:
9 tails - 50%
8 tails - 25%
6 tails - 12,5%
5 tails - 6,25%
4 tails - 3,125%
3 tails - 1,5625%
2 tails - 0,78125%
1 tail - 0,390625%
Don't let the numbers trick you, the otsuksuki and Kisame were the only beings that came close to having as much chakra as them.
Where is the 7 tails?
@@he5114 the poor thing didn't even get any chakra
The best retcon and the biggest plot hole was the izanagi and izanami. It was stated that you need the cell of hashirama to perform this jutsu. Then we see the origin story of izanami and we see that every second uchiha has the MS (another plot hole because it was stated that madara and izuna were the first uchiha with the MS) and flexed with their izanagi, without having the cell of hashirama. Then this woman invented the izanami as counter, without using it a single time before. This is what we call an asspull.
When it was revealed that the eight tails is a Bull Octopus, Gyuki, I was thinking that it is such a waste for Orochi's Yamata no Orochi.
Before Gyuki revealed I had have know the folk tale of Nine Tailed Fox and the Eight Headed Snake, so I assumed that the Eight Tails should be Yamata no Orochi.
It may sounds not paralel because it has heads instead of tails, but one exception should make it unique. Also turns out the Seven Tails actually one tail and seven wings insect.
But oh well, guess it could an unused material for my own story.
The best retcon ever.
I don't think it's a Retcon because not much was known about the Akatsuki
The retcon part of this is that at Shippuden, info regarding bijus and jinchuriki is suddenly common knowledge and everyone knows how it works
Plus, Kyubi was Kyubi, not "Kurama" (just like in japanese folklore) same with Shukaku, no one calls it Ichibi, they call him by his name, which happens to be it's name in japanese folklore
But the Tailed Beasts don't exist just because the Akatsuki does. They still would have been common knowledge. But Gaara was said to have had a "sand spirit" sealed in him in part 1 but in part 2, the sand spirit became a tailed beast. Also, Gaara and Naruto were never referred to as Jinchurikis. It's not the worst retcon as everything still makes sense after the Tailed Beasts are revealed to be a thing but it's still a retcon
@@dsimi415 That's not true. In part 1 they say Shukaku is the spirit of a vengeful sand Monk.
In part 2 we learn said monk was the first jinchuriki of Shukaku and because he lived in forced isolation on the temple people started to spread legends that he himself is a spiritual manifestation of Shukaku.
It's not a retcon since there's no contradiction
@@ΑΡΙΣΤΟΤΕΛΗΣΛΑΧΑΝΟΠΟΥΛΟΣ retcons dont have to be a contradiction. Even a recontextualization is a retcon
@@ΑΡΙΣΤΟΤΕΛΗΣΛΑΧΑΝΟΠΟΥΛΟΣ Retcons don't require contradictions. They're just changes made retroactively to a story. The nine tailed beasts is definitely a retcon. It's a pretty good retcon because the only thing that really contradicted it blatantly was shukaku's origin story. However as you mentioned that was changed in Shippuden. Another reason as to why that's a retcon is because the explanation for them thinking shukaku is the monk makes no sense. People have known about the tailed beasts for hundreds to thousands of years. The first Kazekage knew about the tailed beasts as well as every other kage. This wasn't secret knowledge and so the idea that people outside of children would start spreading such legends is a stretch. Even more of a stretch is that for some reason that's also what gara believed to be the case despite being the son of the Kazekage and the actual jinchuriki?
The thing about a nine tailed fox, is that it exists in japanese culture, meanwhile the other 8 aren't a thing, except maybe shukaku 🤷🏻♂️ but i haven't heard of a demon tanuki so I don't know.
The creator of naruto wanted to make Nine tails look less bad so when he retconned ti split it into two being he also made the Numbered tailed best for war arc 10 tails...Nin tails was only tails beast shikaku wasnt a tailed beast just a beast
It’s also implied that shukaku was once a human in some data book but that got scrapped
@@billyboleson2830 I believe it , So manybrwtcons ruined naruto
Everything you said is wrong
@@jasonmoukala8909 no it's not look up interviews the creator did about the Manga
@@yyyytttt7originally shukaku was stated in manga to be a monk that went mad whose soul was sealed in a tea kettle and then became a demon. The demon was put into gaara was a weapon. That’s why gaara couldn’t sleep because they kept trying to possess him.
Great video but didn’t the eight tails specifically say that the number of tails dosent equal power, just cause 9 and 8 are the strongest dosent mean that they’re ordered that way
When?
@@DygoKnight the war arc I think it was when bee and Naruto where going against obito but I’m not 100% sure the conversation basically was the 9 tails said he was the strongest and the 8 tails should be the second strongest and he responded with number of tail don’t equal strength and implies that’s why shukaku dosent like him
If the tailed beasts were not planned to have all 9 total why would there be a 1 tails and 9 tails on opposite side of the range. It only makes sense that kishimoto planned to have them both be tailed beasts and introducted them all later instead of all at once.
Because In Japanese lore, kitsune have a rivalry with tanukis, which is what shukaku is based one, a tanuki, tanikis have one tail, while the kitsune are commonly depicted with 9 tails, it's because of culture
This comment would make sense if Naruto didn't have any folklore but it clearly does. The comment above me already mentioned what is. So yeah it makes sense also why it's a retcon. And the one tail was obviously supposed to be opposite.
1. 1 tail from the village of the sand ( a barren land and no life) while Naruto being from the leaf ( a bunch of forest, springing with life)
2. Ethics and morals, don't even have to explain that.
3. Naruto/9 tails with many tails so the opposite of that would be one tails
The list goes on even to simple stuff like color scheme.
Jiraiya: I think they are after the nine tails
Kakashi: do you think they are after tue other tailed beasts?
All that was needed to introduce them to Part 1
Retcons aren’t inherently a bad thing, like many foolish anime fans seem to think. Literally every story ever has retcons
Not true with every story.
True with not being bad all the time, but they should be avoided… mostly in the important moments. Retcons create inconsistencies.
I mean when the back story of garaa in part one was that his father sealed the soul of a monk that was trapped inside a jar of sand that kind of tells you that the concept of the 9 tailed beast didn't exist until later on.
Love your videos!! 🤩
Thank you
The slow introduction to the tailed beasts was actually better than telling us upright, so much so that i think those were intentionally avoided up until Shippuden
I’m cool with the way it played out. I think Part 1 was better than Shippuden anyways. Not as complex with its symbolism, but it was a more pure story.