The mafia 1 race is definitely not easy but it’s no where near as bad as people say it is. I would argue that the driver games have some of the hardest vehicle related missions in gaming possibly.
Yeah. I did it on first try. Some people are perfect NFS consumers and don't slow down on corners but attempt handbreak drifts or just understeer outside of track. Wouldn't be suprised they are as bad drivers irl. Not a single crash in my life on street.
Go to forza, get a porsche in S1 with slicks and carboceramics, then displace the brake bias 4/5% forwards and soften up the front sway bar a bit. Trailbraking becomes a CRAZY advantage especially on slower corners
Likely because older racing games don't have smooth steering for keyboard inputs. Nowadays games will gradually turn the wheels when you hit A or D instead of just being either 0% or instant 100% which is probably what makes steering feel extremely snappy and in some instances can even be of great advantage since you can go from 100% one side to 100% the other side in the blink of an eye, something very difficult to replicate on a controller.
Likely because PS2 is still very analog and Carbon was under that transition period. Most modern NFS games like Unbound kinda need you to be more precise with throttle input on the highest level, but can be played with Keyboards just fine
@@lukeyskywalker1251 Yes, but actually the Speedrun leaderboard is full of guys with controller, and I consider myself very proficient at those games, especially NFSMW, but a good race time for me with the same car and upgrades, it's actually a flawed time for them.
iirc you only need to slow down on two corners in the entire NFS Underground 1, the rest of the game can be won fairly easily if you play on a keyboard and follow racing lines even on the hardest difficulty.
I've played old nfs games exclusively on keyboard, I love how the cars handle in underground 2 but most wanted u need to setup sensitivity separately for each car
I played whole my life on keyboard and sometimes on a steering wheel. Played three games on dualshock. (my steam says 45+ racing games, so played a plenty) I can safely say, you can dominate easily with this "disadvantage". It is only matter of precise controling and timing. People just suck at driving, no matter the controls. I play every week NFS unbound and the worst players are... playstation. So... controls do not matter, the driver matters.
my friend (kbm) can keep up with me (G29) on Assetto Corsa in GT3 cars (other cars are too hard to handle on kbm) and in other games like Raceroom and F1 2020. I have played on all 3 at different stages of my life and controller is the most comfortable
I agree with this, at the end it's a matter of skill. I like to play driving games with joystick because the analog controls feels better/more immersive, but my opinion doesn't carry a lot of weight as i only play casually or until my hyperfixation runs out which happens every 4 days to a week.
@@SpeedySpeedBoy14well a wheel doesn't really make you better in racing games it's just ment to make them more realistic and add a difficulty similar to real life and making it possibly more fun
I ABSOLUTELY AGREE with this. A top 10 drivers on the leaderboard in Dirt Rally 2.0 could be using a keyboard/controller. One of the top drivers at No Hesi in AC might be using a keyboard/controller. While someone could be at the bottom of the leaderboard while using a steering wheel. It's not the tool that matters, it's the driver that matters.
I've been an old school racing game player, I even set my controllers to have X for acceleration and □ for brakes (in F1 2020, O for the MFD) , then R2 and L2 for the shifts. So essentially, I'm playing keyboard settings on the joystick
Sadly that's kind of the worst of both worlds setup. KB have an advantage on instant max steering while controllers have an advantage on throttle and brake controls, unless you bind steering to the d-pads then you got neither.
@@shira_yone Steering still on the left joystick. But legit, it's an operator's adaptability. I've been used to the old school setup, doing the Ayrton Senna throttle spam, so I don't need a half throttle, meanwhile when I go with the R2 for throttle, I would get disoriented since I'm used to throttle spamming
@@TheIndogamer yeah, no advantage there. Full digital , full analog, or digital steer + analog brake/throttle hybrid inputs would have been ideal; alas, you've already invested time on the least practical layout. Try d-pad + ✕/☐ for an actual "keyboard on joystick" control scheme.
You know what I'm very curious about what difficulty level you drive on in F1 2020 because I drive on the pad with the normal setting on difficulty level 103, but in F1 2023
For those same reasons, digital inputs are preferred in oldschool style arcade games like bullet hell shmups and fighting games, the speed of shifting inputs and directions and the precision that you can do so is invaluable for playing those games at a high level. Also Trackmania. Most top players use keyboards on that game at the highest level speedrunning competitions. Now, like your tests with Dirt Rally showed, any game that doesn't *act like a game* with the inputs will obviously be at a disavantage with trying to translate into actual direct car controls.
Trackmania is a weird one. In that game it really depends on the car-surface combination wether Keyboard or Controller is faster. Actually for some niches steering wheel is the best because of the ability to smoothsteer much more precisely. Within the community this lead to a never-ending debate on how input devices should be balanced.
I really, REALLY liked this video. It kind of shows that input latency matters more in some racing games compared. I have been maining KB on racing games ever since i was 8 (played every NFS on keyboard and still do). Over time you develop skills and techniques that can compensate for the "digital nature" of keyboard (prioritizing finishing the corner early so you can focus on corner exit, early upshift to reduce wheelspin, etc..) Trying games that have 0 consideration for keyboard are much tougher. I played Gran Turismo 3 on keyboard since i was playing the game on an emulator. All the tricks and tuning weren't enough to save me from my misery. It could be doable, but it wasn't fun Also all KB mains always say that they can be faster on controller. I do it too lmao. Maybe you should try older games like ProStreet or Gran Turismo on the emulator and see if there is more of a difference
I've been a Keyboard player my whole life. When Horizon 5 came out I played it for 3 weeks with only a controller, never with a Keyboard because I tought it would be better and easier with a controller. After around 3 weeks I booted up a race and grinded a good time I was happy with for about 45-60 minutes. Then I switched to keyboard and wanted to see how close I can get to that time while also playing the game for the very first time with a Keyboard. I immediately beat my best time by several seconds. The skill gap is immense on your preferred input device and the skill between controller and Keyboard does not translate at all. You get used to using a controller but building up the skill already achieved on another device will literally take months if not years to get to the same point so I put down my controller for good and went Keyboard after that for any game I play, no issues with keeping up with controller or even wheel players (excluding racing sims, I do not play those).
Hello! Current gamepad DR2 and EA:WRC player here. I found that the main advantage with the gamepad (specifically Dualshock 4) is that there is proper and useful muscle memory being picked up when utilizing the triggers. What I experienced in DR2 with the gamepad on my first few hours was how instantly I was able to position the car where I want to without having to adapt to any input delay. I noticed how well it was able to input any steering lock I want it in any speed. And not only that, button binding is instantly within finger's grasp most especially gear changes and the handbrake. But going back to the point on the triggers, getting the car to weight shift and rotate using the throttle/brake is one of the best skills you can adapt when you transition to a wheel. Another big advantage is consistency. I used to do many online Clubs in different DR2 leagues and was able to compete for competitive stage times and rally wins and ultimately won 4 championships throughout against wheel players. But like you said, the overall essence of rally is consistency over unfamiliar stages. But with the controller, I'm able to dictate the fine line between risk and consistency (not perfectly, I admit). But overall, you made great points. I also want to say that the controller adaptability is *slightly* worse on EA:WRC than DR2...
I am too poor to own a steering wheel or a controller, So on my Potato PC after playing on keyboard for so many years I can safely say that you can perform even better than an controller player, it really comes down to practice & timing and MOST IMPORTANTLY... what you're used to. Though some games tend to be very PITA on keyboard.
@@ieatmentoss1714 I'm not him/her, but even i would rather use a keyboard than using the f310, it's only digital input, so why would i want a controller without an analog input? even then a modern controller would only cost you around 25 bucks for some cheapo rapoo xbox controller
I've always been using keyboard for racing games my entire life, none of my friends understand how I could play racing games so well, I never understood how they couldn't.
Because youre learning it via raw experience with raw instinct, and therefore you don't know where the result even come from. Your friend also learn it from their raw experience and insticnt, and they also didnt know whete their result come from, and they're confused on why eould someone using something different and socially considered inferior than what they know their whole life is getting result similar to what they do.
I was waiting for someone to say TM >:0 Ngl, it’s situational where either kb or controller is faster Let’s take tm2020 as an example Ice? Kb Road/tech/speedtech/justanythingwithdrifting? Both! Plastic? Both! Dirt/fullspeed/grass? Controller (though, kb is still a contender) Bobsleigh? Use 34 perce- Honestly, it’s just about playstyle! To the random person reading this just use whatever makes you more comfortable.
Played racing games for years on keyboard and never got the hate, especially for someone who isn't a competitive racer like myself. Switched to a wheel last year and I will say it is way more fun and probably faster, but if I come home on a weekday night and don't feel like getting my wheel out, I'll just play on keyboard.
As a fighting game player who knows not much about racing games, this video echoes a lot of the same discussions we're having on that side. Theoretically using a leverless controller is optimal in some games, but in reality what matters most is having a controller that suits your preference and makes you able to stop needing to use any brain power to make sure you're hitting the right input. The advantage you gain is not going to be worth you being unhappy with a controller that doesn't suit you.
I'm the keyboard player in racing games for more than 20 years. My friends always looked at me as at some crazy person when I choose keyboard above joystick. Needless to say there were constantly shocked when I beat them endlessly. It always was weird to me seeing lot of players prefer comfortable handling of gaming device (and it's still very subjective) above some real advantages of keyboard. Yet we are still here, my friends call me weirdo :D
The real advantage of a controller is not in cars that are perceived as hard to drive, it's in driving cars with legitimate handling issues like severe understeer or severe wheelspin (in games that favour grip driving). Learn trail braking on a controller and you will find that boat that didn't want to turn in actually corners quite nicely. There is also the problem that if you're not actually good at using partial inputs it slows you down massively. You have to reach a very high degree of proficiency at it before you see any gains whatsoever.
This isn't an apples to apples comparison if you take into account that driving aids in racing games are there to offset a lack of control or skill. If you go into online servers or gaming with a realistic set of rules like enforced cockpit view and no "fake driving helpers" meaning only factory TC and ABS like a real GT3 car, you'll notice some people can still pull quick hotlaps on a keyboard or gamepad with a specific setup, but they can't run a 1h endurance or even a 20min sprint without completely cooking the front tires from steering too much, just as an example. Not to mention that in many cars in some games you need to do threshold braking and you can't brake 100% without locking up. Assetto Corsa has imho the best keyboard implementation because there are 2 keys for accell and 2 for braking, you have quick and slow keys. And you can steer with mouse, which gives an insane level of analog precision that not even a gamepad is capable off. I've seen some keyboard and mouse players be very quick in Assetto with realistic settings (as much as any wheel user) because of this special implementation.
Okay, so...first of all, show me where he said "keyboard is better in all racing games". Second of all, he showed examples of games where using keyboard IS better than using controller when given enough time to - IF needed - transition Thirdly, he thoroughly explained that driving aids for keyboard and controller are implemented to bridge the gap with the precision of wheels, since neither a 0-100 button nor a small flimsy analog stick controlled with your thumb could ever match the range of motion and precision of your hands. And then you claim that his statement is incorrect while proceeding to regurgitate the SAME EXACT THING he said, but dumbed down??? You lack the intelligence to interpret what's being said, and apply it into the proper context. Either that, or you're playing devil's advocate and acting in bad faith to undermine him.
@@KainRazielMT I never talked about which was better. I just said the comparison will favour keyboard because it is intended to demystify the "can't race without a wheel" which is a positive message. In my first paragraph I also mention some titles will enforce "driving aids off" in online or competitive racing which can hinder the keyboard or controller experience... as a warning for people to not get disappointed if that happens. But in reality honest hard truth in hardcore racing simulators is that by sacrificing precision in wheel turning in the front tires, you end up scrubbing them over the ideal slip angle generating overheating, damaging and wasting rubber, which will provide a competitive disadvantage. Keyboard does have competitive advantages, regarding "inhuman" speed for max inputs and strong transitions that can't be replicated in real life. In Assetto Corsa, with mouse steering, you overcome the lack of precision in keyboard turning, making it a surprisingly precise input method and making keyboard implementation with some novelty regarding having more than 1 "state" or "input rate" for gas and brakes. Not mentioning this crucial feature from one of the best simulators and probably the most played sim racing title on the market is a bit surprising and my intent was to complete the information. I wasn't really criticising his video but now after reading your last paragraph you seem to be mentally deranged to attack me personally in such an unprovoked manner. And your lack of intelligence failed to realise that with a mouse you can have a 100% analog input as much as any steering wheel. The problem for extreme car control is the lack of force feedback. But some of the alien eSports level players use very light low effort force feedback because at very high splits, the amount of hours practiced is so high that the driving movements become like "guitar hero" practiced mechanical movements to be repeated with precision and less dynamic adjustment. There are plenty of insanely fast lap times with keyboards and controllers. And also without driving AIDS and just full on mind blowing precision from huge amounts of practice and perfection. (My first week with a wheel I was worse than with keyboard actually lol) But again, in extremely competitive conditions, (Top 5% in the world) and very dynamic races (endurance, tire wear, fuel consumption, pit stops, damages that affect aero) (changing brake bias during racing) (changing driving style to save fuel or tires) (dealing with multiclass lapping traffic or being lapped) It becomes insanely hard to perform consistently and drive every lap like your best hot lap ever with any input method, but a high quality expensive sim rig will get you closer to your best. It is a law of extreme diminishing returns: the Logitech G923 over the keyboard is a much bigger upgrade than a "mid level" Thrustmaster TS-PC over a G923, and a Fanatec Podium DD1 while feeling premium and immersive, will provide you a small % improvement over the Thrustmaster TS-PC. Depending on how hardcore you are, it might not even be worth it. I do compete for world records frequently and in some platforms I've been one of the highest ranked players when I was playing consistently. There is a much bigger problem in sim racing that makes addressing a wheel with almost the same attitude as a controller or keyboard. in real life there is very limited seat time, and the ability to min-max is much lower, and reality is more analog, dynamic, changes more, less predictable, more possibilities. People can just practice whatever for 10000 hours and get really really good at it. But no driver does that. I pride myself in joining a track and car I've never driven before, figure out how to drive and setup in a practice session, get cosy with it in qually and win the race like I just did today at LFM with the Ferrari 296 GT3. The difference with IRL good and bad drivers, is not only driving technique, but your mental ability to adapt, overcome, change and setup the car, figure stuff out on the fly while driving. Racing is not just driving, it's so much more than that. Racing is being alive, the car and the track are living things. The smells, loud sounds vibrations, heat of the car, burning heat of the just used tires resting in the pits... waiting to get scraped clean... Weight tire thread changes, track rubber, temps, adapt setup, figure pit strategies, react to other's strategies, change stuff in the car every lap while driving. See what works and what doesn't. Telemetry data, sector times, why a guy is faster than me in a specific corner. Looking at everyone's lap times figuring out what to do with my pace... This is why people that have the huge money and are extremely competitive are willing to pay 6000€ 3000€ on each simcube active pedal to have FFB on their pedals. That money could afford hydraulic motion systems but they won't buy that because it will add inconsistency to the driving. Some of the fastest guys have the less "flashy fun" looking rigs. Yet one of my first top 2 world records in AMS2 was using a 200€ Logitech G923. And I've seen top 1 done by a controller. I just advise people to avoid having high hopes online racing in hardcore simulators, but if they go for more arcade titles like Forza Motorsport they can actually be the fastest in the world with a keyboard. And shitty arcade games like NFS Heat, wheels don't even work properly there, can't setup steering ratio properly, filters are always on. The game only plays good on keyboard and controller and will play like shit on a 10 000€ sim rig. No need for your mental breakdown over my opinion of keyboards. I still advise, if you really love racing, specially in driver's POV cockpit view, save a bit get at least a cheap logitech, just for the enjoyment of it. But then also needs a fast response (1ms or lower) big size close to eyes screen for a realistic image and sense of speed. The input method alone isn't the biggest deal. It's a ton of things put together. Ever since I've adjusted screen position 54cm from eyes and fov for simulation, I can't figure out to be good with keyboard or controller or use the 3rd person camera anymore. But the other day I played someone else's PC on keyboard just fine, different dynamics. I've also sat on a few rigs, and 1 rig the guy had triples setup so bad I couldn't read the distance braking boards... he had a really expensive rig that was completely undriveable. It was easier to drive Assetto Corsa on my GF's keyboard laptop. 🤣😂🤣😂
I disagree, in dirt rally you need brake control so your brakes don't lock up some stages are annoying cause you have to spam brake on keyboard I tried both inputs I use controller now. On tarmac stages keyboard performs the worst. Forza horizon is similar if you are like me and have all the assists and abs off.
And also he says physics are quite forgiving... Not sure about Dirt Rally 2.0, but clearly he hasn't played Sweden, Wales or Greece in the first Game, a small bump on the edge of the road or a high speed jump can definitely send You flying and make You roll like 10 times 😂😂😂
Your content's became top-tier ever since you left Forza and focused on the racing genre as a whole. That type of myth-busting is actually really cool. I wonder if you'd make a video regarding Race 103 in Need for Speed: Underground? Keep up the good work!
In Circuit Superstars, keyboard only has a slight advantage while hot lapping.. in-race, when fuel strategies which require lift/coast or less than full throttle approaches create an advantage, then the input devices are equal.
Why would you use NFS Heat as a testing grounds for this argument though lol. I've played tons of NFS titles competitively and every single one that I have played, keyboard is at a high disadvantage compared to gamepad. (World, Hot Pursuit, Most Wanted 2012, Unbound, Payback are a few examples) Also, have confirmed from a few NFS Heat comp players myself, that keyboard is indeed not better than gamepad, due to lack of precision steering. Also, the race you featured in NFSH is pretty keyboard friendly. This testing in general seems inaccurate. Should be done consistently across more titles and with way more tracks per game.
@@seP4 According to what tho? Micro steering cannot be replicated by keyboard without essential speed loss. It’s necessary in both b2d and grip handling models from most blackbox games. Kb comp nfs players have never been able to compete consistently with gamepad players across multiple titles, in fact, lots of them eventually switched to gamepad and saw positive results.
the results, and i dont see any other tests. i see the only person who tested this achieved better results with keyboard despite being biased against it, and doesn't see a reason to switch yet
this could have been more interesting with analog keyboards, because you can still get benefits of digital steering and benefit of throttle controlling with analog keys on a game like forza.
0:55 This is actually why i initially had a hard time switching from Keyboard to Controller. I was so not used to the speed difference between the two. I was suddenly always hitting traffic, something i had an easier time dodging with keyboard. I got used to controller now though, haven't gone back to keyboard since.
Analog keyboards (like wooting) are really good for games that have both driving and shooting (like GTA) and don't have issues using 2 input devices at the same time. It's not as precise as a gamepad but it's very close and way better than a regular keyboard for driving.
I was always one to use mouse and keyboard, I never had issues winning with online sessions. I think it's really a myth for those that say you can't win with a keyboard. The thing is with controllers, it's much more comfortable. The older I got, the more I use controllers for most of my games now.
I've only been using gamepads (and that cursed thrustmaster forza wheel) for only a couple years now and it just feels more tactile playing some games with it. My brother meanwhile sticks to KBM on Forza and manages some crazy laps
We'll hopefully have hall-effect keyboards bridge the 'variable input' gap between keyboards and controllers. We just need future racing PC games to support them.
Have you tried RBR RSF (Richard Burns Rally Rallysimfans)? Basically Dirt Rally but it's a 20 years modded game with 300+ stages and free to play with daily weekly or montly tournaments opened to join or private. DIrt Rally but even more hardcore.
@@RelaxSimmer By no life he means by treating the game as a 9 to 5 job. And not playing it as intended by the developers. Rallying is not F1, repeating the same track and car combo for hundreds of hours just to get a perfect lap imo is just a waste of time and energy.
@@whitenova.2658what you're saying is bizarre to me... I what world do you have to treat dirt rally as a 9 to 5 job the fk? And in the end of the day what makes a difference what game you play if you actually having fun waht you're doing?
My friend group consists of four people, including me. One person plays on the keyboard, two [me and one other person] on the controller, and the fourth on the steering wheel. We tried this with us, using the same car, built the same way. Only aesthetics were different. The standings were: 1st Me, 2nd Keyboard, 3rd Controller and 4 the Steering wheel. The reason I won is because I have played racing games on a console [PS 3] for a long time so the controls are natural to me. Same for 2nd and 3rd, but they have been playing for less time. The guy in 4th is someone who believes in pay-to-win, has a very expensive set-up and puts in no practice or plays offline to improve. Another time, I, the steering wheel and Controller 2 were playing together on nfs heat, different cars but the same performance score, guess who was begging to be given a win?
The wheel for arcade games is useless. I have a wheel setup aswell. But for games like BeamNG to be able to play properly with no filtering. I play on gamepad most of the time for anything that isn't a sim because it just is more comfortable and makes more sense.
@@bluesteel1199 yeah it's a bad mentality to spend without practice. I spend a lot on hardware too but that's not because I think it'll make me better or anything. It's because I actually do practice on the wheel. Also because I drive in real life, like driving in real life. But don't want to risk my own actual car in a crash lmao
I use both keyboard and gamepad in racing games but I think the only game which I exclusively played on keyboard was the Colin McRae Rally 04, Idk why, but it really felt just right to use the keyboard. Midnight Club 2 is also decent with keyboard but with the difficulty spikes and rubber banding I think using gamepad for percise input is the way to go. So definitely it's a preference thing, but I will go for the pad in most racing games tbh.
I should mention one issue about your comparisons here. You said the filtering slows both keyboard and gamepad, but many of these games have steering sensitivity options. And in the case of heat, I actually upped the sensitivity via mods. I get ~80% more sensitive steering than the largest sensitivity setting u can make in game. And found gamepad much faster having that control. Plus the way you seem to drive is timing based as is, so unlike a driver like me who follows closer to physics isnt as equal as you. So I think this comparison while not untrue for you, probably needs a lot more testing. PS:U know those two resets in dirt rally cost u mad time right?
sensitivity is max or near the max in all games but i didnt use any mods assuming no car damage and 5 sec time loss for reset runs would still make keyboard 0.3 slower overall
@@seP4 i think the loss per is 10 or 15 seconds fam. Its a lot. I get the message of your vid, but as someone who plays controller over keyboard on many games, but has played both... keyboard only works for games where reaction time is key. Like GTA. Not to mention its the filtering that's the issue to how controllers lack. As they can be used more sensitively than a keyboard. I just think the vid shouldve talked more about how filtering options should be improved. Try the one handling input mod for need for speed HPR on pc if u have it. Its a great example how the in-game filter is ass but improving the filter makes it godtier on controller. Then again... I do think your vids have a more "reactionary" review format to them so... maybe thats me askin too much from a smaller youtuber. I dont mean to be a dick I just... feel like its more than controllers v keyboard by what was presented. Hope im not treading on toes.
That's what I've been saying for years. Even though I play on a gamepad. I have a video on my channel getting a gold medal in one of Assetto Corsa challenges without assists on a keyboard.
As a life-long PC gamer, I used to only play racing games on keyboard back in the day, because 20 or so years ago many racing games didn't even support controllers on PC at all, so you basically had to play them with keyboard. And let me tell you, there's practically nothing wrong with keyboard in most games (with some notable exceptions, like Gran Turismo), especially multiplatform titles or older titles.
@@IJFJJAJI There is no way I'd like to drive the hardest Nürburgring challenge in Gran Turismo 5 with a keyboard, especially since emulating that game sucks and you can't use keyboard with it on the PS3.
@@beetheimmortal I haven't tried gt5 yet on emulator, I'm actually considering buying a second hand ps3 for that one though. but with gt3 and gt4, digital controls actually feel very smooth and intuitive. You can check out xTimelessGaming's video of Driving Mission 34 if you are interested, which is the nurburgring one. he plays everything on a keyboard. he's also got plenty of gt5 videos too.
i always thought keyboard and controller were very similar in pace or that keyboard would maybe be slightly faster because of the ability to make faster steering corrections more quickly one advantage controller does have though is that you can keep partial throttle while braking, which for some cars in forza makes it much easier to trailbrake and prevents rear wheels from locking up so often
Having played Horizon with kb for years, I can tell you that the repeated key tapping method works amazingly. I have very high levels of precision when driving on dirt and can manage slides extremely well.
On a controller I always held the left stick forwards and would precisely adjust the angle that way, in a weird way it was more like steering than a joystick.
Your entire video is based on a false premise. Analog controls aren't necessarily supposed to give you a superior result (ie: a better time), they are made to give you a more authentic experience (ie: something that feels more like driving a car). The reason keyboards are faster in some games is because they didn't bother balancing two input schemes versus each other because it doesn't matter. To use an analogy for fighting games...Capcom vs SNK2 for Nintendo Gamecube has all the specials and super mapped to easy joystick commands anyone can do as opposed to complex joystick maneuvers and button combos. This version was given the name "EO" for Easy Operation. This is all well and good but that doesn't mean that a Gamecube controller is a better way to play than a $200 arcade stick. It means exactly the opposite. Capcom knew you'd never approximate the authentic experience with a pack-in d-pad so they gave a cheat mode to the whole input method to make up for it. Similarly there is no real world equivalent to "digital" driving controls and it doesn't feel real at all (one does not "tap left" repeat in an actual car, for example) so they don't care what times you generate. Its an easy mode for kids who can't afford decent controllers. Real talk.
Also you completely missed the point of the video and all fighting games are going to be "easier" to play on kb/gamepad for people not accustomed to arcade sticks by default so your comment is basically "Fuck you filthy peasant/MAME user for being poor and/or not owning the real thing", yeah real pleasant and privileged
I was used to play racing games (specially Gran Turismo 1 to 4) on keyboard once my gamepad blew off. Specially on Gran Turismo 2 I could relate a real difference on input controls, and consistently better consecutive laps than gamepad. So much so that I beat an old GT2 Super License world record by 0.002. Despite the fact of keyboard input simpleness, there's a lack of precision when you need to get a better traction or quick shifting - I always played on manual transmission and in keyboard wasn't different: WASD to turn, arrows to throttle and brake, and side arrows to up and down shifting. Really nice comparision! Love to see that.
I mean, it really depends on the game like you said, you can use keyboard in a racing "game" but it is practically impossible to play a racing "sim" and take a car or a bike to it's true limits with it, like on assetto corsa, iracing, an f1 or motogp game. You can still play those sims with all the assists on keyboard but i think that a controller it's much better, you will need some assist tho, mostly in the stearing cause is really awfull to use a raw steering input on a controller, but you can still drive a car without abs or tc and use one of the analogs for the clutch or e-brake for drifting. I know that using a controller for playing a racing sim isn´t the best option at all but some of us can´t afford a steering whell ither.
i play beamng on keyboard 😜(i cant drive some cars in manual because i cant do clutch control and when i want to drive casually i am spamming W so it becomes a very uncomfortable experience)
@@GamingPigSFS yeah i played it on keyboard recently because my dualshock 3 broke, it is uncomfortable especially in turbocharged cars with low traction, like the Civetta 390GT Group 4. I got tired of playing on keyboard for so long and i was missing my controller so i recently bought a dualsense and it is awesome, especially in assetto corsa where you have full compatibility with the aptic feedback and triggers.
keyboard is not "impossible" in sims, you just need some ABS and often TC (but not always), you don't need "all the assists" contrary to what you said. then, some car classes have ABS and TC by design, like the popular GT3 for example, so in these cases you don't need any artificial assists at all
The game pads advantage is in stick rolling. You don't just move the stick only right and left, but rather roll it around the top circumference, acting like a wheel and allowing you to hold angles in the turns.
I gave it a go in gran turismo 3 on pcsx2 after being a controller player in racing games for 20 years. I only ever used keyboard for driving in gta games because of the shooting elements. I spent an hour on trial mountain in the tom's supra and managed a 1:19:495 on keyboard, while my controller best time was 1:18:831. For me I feel much more comfortable and relaxed using a controller, even when pushing the car to the absolute limits, whereas with the keyboard, I feel more "on edge" and I have to concentrate more to avoid making a small mistake which can cause me to miss an apex or oversteer a bit too much. With a controller I just feel more safe. Overall for me I don't think it's worth it to make the switch after 20 years of controller racing because I probably won't reach the comfortability that I have with controller. But it's nice to know that I am already competitve with a keyboard and that I'm not too far off my controller times. If anyone else want to try this car and track combo on gt3 i'd definitely be interested to see what times you get on kbm vs controller. bind the triggers to X and SQUARE and enable the adjusted triggers sensitivty patch.
An important thing to note about TCS is that TCS doesn't really function as throttle or brake control. TCS uses sensors that detects when the wheels starts to slip and then applys the brakes independently to each wheel to slow the car down. A human driver can not manually apply brakes indepently to each wheel so this will increase control and safety of car for some players but overall it can actively slow the car down by applying brakes mid corner to reduce the cars speed. It's kind of similar to ABS but the opposite, where ABS senses when the wheels lock up and stop rolling under braking and then disengages the brakes keep the wheels fom sliding. An experienced driver, without relying on ABS, and TCS, and with a gamepad, could probably get an extra 2-5 mph around the corners with proper weight management. Weight management meaning balancing the weight evenly across all 4 wheels, and effectively shifting the weight from the front and rear wheels during braking and acceleration. An example, for instance, would be when accelerating out of a corner, the driver is still turning and has the weight of the car shifted to the side, so the inside wheel is lifting off the ground and has less grip. If the driver squares up the car on exit, then both rear wheels are making good contact to the ground and the driver can use more throttle to exit the corner. With TCS on, the driver can use full throttle with bad weight management because the brake is applied to the rear inside wheel but not the outside rear wheel, potentially slowing the car down in exchange for stability.
i feel like personal comfort is a huge factor in what control input you'll be better with. actually it might be worth looking into whether or not analog or digital input controllers are better
Funny how stuff you ask as features in racing games show up in non-racing games like a military sandbox such as Arma 3 that lets you change the curves and filtering on mouse and controller, and even has default auto-centering when driving with your mouse(Though it does not have shifting unlike Reforger, its WIP successor).
@@IPlayKindredfind someone else then buddy, many people aren’t happy with the new NFS games. Just because YOU like it, doesn’t mean everyone else has to like them
@@Anakin0217 find someone else then buddy, many people aren't happy with the amount of slack nfs gets just for existing, just because YOU are okay with it, doesn't mean everyone else has to.
Beamng is an amazing example on this. First person view on keyboard looks genuinely unhinged with how fast the steering wheel snaps when you're trying to push a super car on a track.
2:20 About that... When BeamNG? It's a fantastic game tbh,I didn't find a single video about it on your channel,but you know it,will we ever get a BeamNG Video? 👀🍿 Fantastic Vid btw,in games that are more complicated like Assetto Corsa where using all throttle in a corner there is a HIGH chance you will spin out or understeer depending on FWD,AWD or RWD So I would say depends on the game,arcade games let you use 1000000% of the throttle and they wouldn't care less,your care would be stable,so I would say nah Also for steering there is input smoothing, especially for Keyboard as instead of doing wheel 0° to 40° it just gradually does it,while on controller it depends on the game,also on keyboard but most games have that if not 90% of modern games for keyboard "input smoothing" if I remember right Great vid again 🍿
everybody always goes to RWD on dirt in DR2.0 as the "hard mode," but I'd actually say it's rwd on tarmac. when your front wheels actually have full grip, steering sensitivity makes much more of a difference. Spain in particular, what with high-speed turns on downhills, long turns that slowly tighten, etc. I'm cheese gromit in dr2 btw if you ever see me, I mostly play the daily challenges for the reasons you gave for time-trial being lame lol. I also wanted to beat catty7073 because of the kliksphilip video, and after like 1.5 years I did so in daily challenges before he apparently stopped playing when WRC came out (though I haven't found him in WRC leaderboards). I only did it after switching from controller to wheel after the first year though. but also catty7073 would often set times in dailies that were faster than the WR in time trial, so there's that. One of my favorite drives ended in me being 7 tenths off catty in a daily, p1 and p2, and realizing the two of us had beat the time trial record but no-one behind us had. that was a great feelin-wait you're still reading this comment? my point ended like 7 sentences ag--
@@OmniStef94yeah, but it might aswell be someone writing what to do, not actually doing it, considering how precise stuff is, even at a fraction of the speed. especially when you consider a few games like trackmania requite long and precise inputs that'd just suck to do manually.
trackmania is an intresting one for input, beacose: 1# there is no analog bracke and akcelarate 2# only ~50% of records is on keaboard 3# there is a pro on a wheel
Nah, fuck asymmetrical thumbstick layouts, I don't see how placing the left stick higher (meaning you also have to reach your thumb higher on the controller) is better
@@zenksren8206did my opinion hurt you so bad I have played on both consoles But Xbox is better in terms of racing. For shooter games, i prefer the dualshock.
@@zenksren8206did my opinion hurt you so bad I have played on both consoles But Xbox is better in terms of racing. For shooter games, i prefer the dualshock.
Funny that you mention Trackmania, because that game's differences between analog and digital steering is very unique, since the devs haven't figured input smoothing or assists despite being in the racing game business for 20+ years. As a result, certain cars are literally unplayable without action keys (limiting your steering) on keyboard, because turning 100% ALWAYS loses you grip, and that's incredibly slow in that game. On the other hand, the franchise has never had analog throttle or brake controls, so there's no disadvantage there - quite the opposite. There are situations where you need to tap the brake or release the throttle for milliseconds, which is harder to do with an input that doesn't give you any feedback on whether you've actuated it.
the video feels severely exaggerated about how keyboards can compete with controllers/wheels, when he mentions games like the first one or TM. Trackmania literally is made in a way that is arcadey but has a deep range of mechanics to learn to use. No way anyone can claim a normal keyboard is better or the same as a controller in games like forza, rally and especially sims. Braking will always be a big disadvantage in these games because you utilise 100% of it whenever you tap, meanwhile on controllers you can control that. Same for acceleration even in these cases, going full throttle in some cars isnt ideal. Theres a reason why most avoid kbm in racing games. And lets not forget how much more effort it takes to achieve high accuracy on a keyboard compared to a controller. Consistency matters a lot as well.
In my experience, I find gamepads best suited for racing games that have some form of spinout penalty for oversteering, like Dirt 2. It makes it quicker for me to counter-steer with the same thumb. Whereas racing games with very grippy handling, work just fine with a keyboard, like Burnin' Rubber.
In pretty much every racing game I start with changing gamepad settings. Smoothing, reduction in steering speed, deadzones, etc. are terrible. I tried to play RaceRoom on gamepad and it was impossible to catch a slide. I thought it was caused by setup or me not being able to countersteer properly but after doing some experiments, I discovered that it was the issue with steering filtering. It was so slow that I was unable to countersteer in time. I switched to raw inputs and became immediately faster and... able to catch a car. Then I added slight steering reduction at speed and reduced sensitivity at low inputs. Now I am able to compete against wheel users in ranked servers. I play mostly sims now. In pretty much every of them gamepad is viable option but default settings are overly protective and don't allow you to drive on the edge while accidentally preventing you from recovering once you make mistake. In arcades/simcades max steering speed is so low you can't use advantage of analog sticks while god awful deadzones and steering sensitivity make cars unresponsive and annoying. Earlier this year I was "forced" to practice on keyboard for BeamNG event, as my gamepad died. After adjusting assists (BeamNG has best steering assists in any racing game IMO) I was much faster than I expected but just couldn't notice small issues with the setup that I can usually catch in 1-2 laps on a controller/wheel.
A interesting type of steering thats quite usually forgotten its the mouse steering, for me atleast its mostly the best you can get without a steering wheel, i've been using it for 2 years now and i managed to be able to dominate in any racing game i play with mouse steering (even though some games doesnt have any support for it) and if you match it with a good hardware that gets high FPS, a good mouse with a nice sensor and high pooling rate and a magnetic keyboard, all of the advantage even on the wheel gets lost, but this video really showed that people dont really notice that you can play with any device you prefer and just think that for racing games the controller is a obligatory thing, which i disagree with, anyway, i really liked the video and your content as a whole, keep up the good work!
I used to play a lot of Dirt 2 and Dirt 3 on my MacBook keyboard before I got a controller. It wasn't too bad to play that way, however I do prefer controllers
This myth also applies to Fighting games and 2D Platforming games, where, again, keyboard actually has a slight edge due to speed of switching inputs (The hitbox has recently gained more attention as people are realising this fact).
it because arcade games put consider on keyboard, on the programming section we can see lot of curve when we full press the button. and that curve is already perfect (because first racing games is made for digital controller 0-1), but when we go in pure driving simulation (and not put consider the curve when we make the simulator), using keyboard will be like an hell
(Long comment warning) In my opinion when it comes to racing/driving games use whatever you want. But if you’re using a keyboard and mouse on console on an online shooting game you better hope no one knows where to find you irl. Because everyone pretty much knows that keyboard and mouse is better for shooting games (unless the game has auto lock/aim) but that doesn’t mean it’s ok to use it when you know everyone else is probably using a controller. Also before someone possibly says something like *oh those controller players are just poor* or *why don’t they just buy a keyboard* you shouldn’t have to buy additional hardware to make a game fair.
Good to see that somebody agrees that Dirt Rally 2.0 has pretty forgiving controls and physics for a rally game, I've played pretty much most of the rally sim games of the mid 2010s onward and I would even argue DR2.0 is more forgiving than some of the WRC games, I personally had a much easier time playing DR2.0 than I did wrc9 + 10 especially with non 4wd cars.
Learn more about the REDMAGIC Titan 16 Pro here: bit.ly/4gwYeln
This is truly one of the Daniel give me coffee moments of all time
*YOU PLAYED FORZA AGAIN! YOU'RE BACK!!* 😮
@@gorrilaunit99 you mean Whorza
I don't think I've ever seen you have a sponsor in any of your videos.
@@J-STX5469 pretty sure he did a sponsor for a VPN before
The internet you say? The same internet who says the mafia race mission is one of the most difficult things ever made on a game?
The mafia 1 race is definitely not easy but it’s no where near as bad as people say it is.
I would argue that the driver games have some of the hardest vehicle related missions in gaming possibly.
Fun fact: Modern steering wheels WILL work in OG Mafia 1!!
Yeah. I did it on first try. Some people are perfect NFS consumers and don't slow down on corners but attempt handbreak drifts or just understeer outside of track.
Wouldn't be suprised they are as bad drivers irl. Not a single crash in my life on street.
It's difficult
Mafia 1 race was absolutely cake, if you understand racing at all it’s a breeze
The gamepad is better when driving RWD. It's so much fun to have throttle control in corners
I prefer keyboard when comes to pc gaming only using gamingpad on wwe, soccer.
Go to forza, get a porsche in S1 with slicks and carboceramics, then displace the brake bias 4/5% forwards and soften up the front sway bar a bit. Trailbraking becomes a CRAZY advantage especially on slower corners
Arcade and Speed = KbM bias.
Sim-cade and Precision = Controller bias.
Simulation, Precision, and Consistency = Wheel.
Lack of speed, consistency, or precision = Skill Issue.
Hotel = Trivago
Mr world star : pitbul
Kb in Trackmania with desert vehicle = ☠️👻😡😡
What is a sim-cade game?
@@rainiernqc A game that takes elements from both sim-racing and arcade.
I find the old NFS games feel very snappy on keyboard I played carbon that way and it was surprisingly good
Likely because older racing games don't have smooth steering for keyboard inputs.
Nowadays games will gradually turn the wheels when you hit A or D instead of just being either 0% or instant 100% which is probably what makes steering feel extremely snappy and in some instances can even be of great advantage since you can go from 100% one side to 100% the other side in the blink of an eye, something very difficult to replicate on a controller.
Likely because PS2 is still very analog and Carbon was under that transition period. Most modern NFS games like Unbound kinda need you to be more precise with throttle input on the highest level, but can be played with Keyboards just fine
@@lukeyskywalker1251 Yes, but actually the Speedrun leaderboard is full of guys with controller, and I consider myself very proficient at those games, especially NFSMW, but a good race time for me with the same car and upgrades, it's actually a flawed time for them.
iirc you only need to slow down on two corners in the entire NFS Underground 1, the rest of the game can be won fairly easily if you play on a keyboard and follow racing lines even on the hardest difficulty.
I've played old nfs games exclusively on keyboard, I love how the cars handle in underground 2 but most wanted u need to setup sensitivity separately for each car
I played whole my life on keyboard and sometimes on a steering wheel. Played three games on dualshock. (my steam says 45+ racing games, so played a plenty)
I can safely say, you can dominate easily with this "disadvantage". It is only matter of precise controling and timing.
People just suck at driving, no matter the controls. I play every week NFS unbound and the worst players are... playstation.
So... controls do not matter, the driver matters.
my friend (kbm) can keep up with me (G29) on Assetto Corsa in GT3 cars (other cars are too hard to handle on kbm) and in other games like Raceroom and F1 2020. I have played on all 3 at different stages of my life and controller is the most comfortable
I agree with this, at the end it's a matter of skill. I like to play driving games with joystick because the analog controls feels better/more immersive, but my opinion doesn't carry a lot of weight as i only play casually or until my hyperfixation runs out which happens every 4 days to a week.
Keyboard is better for arcade games.
@@SpeedySpeedBoy14well a wheel doesn't really make you better in racing games it's just ment to make them more realistic and add a difficulty similar to real life and making it possibly more fun
I ABSOLUTELY AGREE with this.
A top 10 drivers on the leaderboard in Dirt Rally 2.0 could be using a keyboard/controller. One of the top drivers at No Hesi in AC might be using a keyboard/controller. While someone could be at the bottom of the leaderboard while using a steering wheel.
It's not the tool that matters, it's the driver that matters.
I've been an old school racing game player, I even set my controllers to have X for acceleration and □ for brakes (in F1 2020, O for the MFD) , then R2 and L2 for the shifts. So essentially, I'm playing keyboard settings on the joystick
Sadly that's kind of the worst of both worlds setup. KB have an advantage on instant max steering while controllers have an advantage on throttle and brake controls, unless you bind steering to the d-pads then you got neither.
@@shira_yone Steering still on the left joystick. But legit, it's an operator's adaptability. I've been used to the old school setup, doing the Ayrton Senna throttle spam, so I don't need a half throttle, meanwhile when I go with the R2 for throttle, I would get disoriented since I'm used to throttle spamming
@@TheIndogamer yeah, no advantage there.
Full digital , full analog, or digital steer + analog brake/throttle hybrid inputs would have been ideal; alas, you've already invested time on the least practical layout.
Try d-pad + ✕/☐ for an actual "keyboard on joystick" control scheme.
You know what I'm very curious about what difficulty level you drive on in F1 2020 because I drive on the pad with the normal setting on difficulty level 103, but in F1 2023
For those same reasons, digital inputs are preferred in oldschool style arcade games like bullet hell shmups and fighting games, the speed of shifting inputs and directions and the precision that you can do so is invaluable for playing those games at a high level. Also Trackmania. Most top players use keyboards on that game at the highest level speedrunning competitions.
Now, like your tests with Dirt Rally showed, any game that doesn't *act like a game* with the inputs will obviously be at a disavantage with trying to translate into actual direct car controls.
Trackmania is too fastpaced for a steering wheel, (tested it on my own, i can't rotate the wheel fast enough)
if you arent full turning it in trackmania you arent going fast enough, theres not much need for precise movements.
Trackmania is a weird one. In that game it really depends on the car-surface combination wether Keyboard or Controller is faster. Actually for some niches steering wheel is the best because of the ability to smoothsteer much more precisely. Within the community this lead to a never-ending debate on how input devices should be balanced.
@@airworks7809 Don't look up Granady 🥶
There's also the fact that old school shmups and fighting games don't use analog inputs.
14:36 Yes i have the retention span of a turtle
12:46 They're still pushing out updates for Unbound, felt like I needed to clarify that.
Updating NFS Unbound is like sprinkling shit with glitter. 🤣🤣
If only they had kept updating heat instead
Bro got his first big sponsor.
Congratulations 👏
WRC sends you flying off with 80 kickflips 7 front flips, 8 backflips and 3 Barrel Rolls if you drive over a pebble wrong.
I really, REALLY liked this video. It kind of shows that input latency matters more in some racing games compared.
I have been maining KB on racing games ever since i was 8 (played every NFS on keyboard and still do). Over time you develop skills and techniques that can compensate for the "digital nature" of keyboard (prioritizing finishing the corner early so you can focus on corner exit, early upshift to reduce wheelspin, etc..)
Trying games that have 0 consideration for keyboard are much tougher. I played Gran Turismo 3 on keyboard since i was playing the game on an emulator. All the tricks and tuning weren't enough to save me from my misery. It could be doable, but it wasn't fun
Also all KB mains always say that they can be faster on controller. I do it too lmao. Maybe you should try older games like ProStreet or Gran Turismo on the emulator and see if there is more of a difference
I've been a Keyboard player my whole life.
When Horizon 5 came out I played it for 3 weeks with only a controller, never with a Keyboard because I tought it would be better and easier with a controller.
After around 3 weeks I booted up a race and grinded a good time I was happy with for about 45-60 minutes. Then I switched to keyboard and wanted to see how close I can get to that time while also playing the game for the very first time with a Keyboard.
I immediately beat my best time by several seconds.
The skill gap is immense on your preferred input device and the skill between controller and Keyboard does not translate at all. You get used to using a controller but building up the skill already achieved on another device will literally take months if not years to get to the same point so I put down my controller for good and went Keyboard after that for any game I play, no issues with keeping up with controller or even wheel players (excluding racing sims, I do not play those).
Hello! Current gamepad DR2 and EA:WRC player here. I found that the main advantage with the gamepad (specifically Dualshock 4) is that there is proper and useful muscle memory being picked up when utilizing the triggers.
What I experienced in DR2 with the gamepad on my first few hours was how instantly I was able to position the car where I want to without having to adapt to any input delay. I noticed how well it was able to input any steering lock I want it in any speed. And not only that, button binding is instantly within finger's grasp most especially gear changes and the handbrake. But going back to the point on the triggers, getting the car to weight shift and rotate using the throttle/brake is one of the best skills you can adapt when you transition to a wheel.
Another big advantage is consistency. I used to do many online Clubs in different DR2 leagues and was able to compete for competitive stage times and rally wins and ultimately won 4 championships throughout against wheel players. But like you said, the overall essence of rally is consistency over unfamiliar stages. But with the controller, I'm able to dictate the fine line between risk and consistency (not perfectly, I admit).
But overall, you made great points. I also want to say that the controller adaptability is *slightly* worse on EA:WRC than DR2...
I am too poor to own a steering wheel or a controller, So on my Potato PC after playing on keyboard for so many years I can safely say that you can perform even better than an controller player, it really comes down to practice & timing and MOST IMPORTANTLY... what you're used to.
Though some games tend to be very PITA on keyboard.
WTF you mean too poor? Logitech F310...
@@ThePsycho211 seriously...? i would rather use keyboard than that crap
@@YoZakura79 you're not segsfault, are you?
@@ieatmentoss1714 I'm not him/her, but even i would rather use a keyboard than using the f310, it's only digital input, so why would i want a controller without an analog input? even then a modern controller would only cost you around 25 bucks for some cheapo rapoo xbox controller
@@ThePsycho211There's lots of better aftermarket controller than logitech F310 with the same price.
I've always been using keyboard for racing games my entire life, none of my friends understand how I could play racing games so well, I never understood how they couldn't.
Because youre learning it via raw experience with raw instinct, and therefore you don't know where the result even come from.
Your friend also learn it from their raw experience and insticnt, and they also didnt know whete their result come from, and they're confused on why eould someone using something different and socially considered inferior than what they know their whole life is getting result similar to what they do.
5:52 ahhh the memoriiieeess
good times
0:13 There are keyboards that can do that by Wooting, people say they are pretty good for games like osu! or Trackmania
I was waiting for someone to say TM >:0
Ngl, it’s situational where either kb or controller is faster
Let’s take tm2020 as an example
Ice? Kb
Road/tech/speedtech/justanythingwithdrifting? Both!
Plastic? Both!
Dirt/fullspeed/grass? Controller (though, kb is still a contender)
Bobsleigh? Use 34 perce-
Honestly, it’s just about playstyle! To the random person reading this just use whatever makes you more comfortable.
wooting also nice with wreckfest
@@Skymustbelimited I want you to try desert vehicle (it's sure worse on ice) with keyboard and confirm what I'm thinking
@@MokaBeats664 I can confirm, Rally ice needs Ak’s
I've been saying this since the 90s. It's just so clear that this is the case, yet people wilfully choose to ignore the facts.
Played racing games for years on keyboard and never got the hate, especially for someone who isn't a competitive racer like myself. Switched to a wheel last year and I will say it is way more fun and probably faster, but if I come home on a weekday night and don't feel like getting my wheel out, I'll just play on keyboard.
As a fighting game player who knows not much about racing games, this video echoes a lot of the same discussions we're having on that side. Theoretically using a leverless controller is optimal in some games, but in reality what matters most is having a controller that suits your preference and makes you able to stop needing to use any brain power to make sure you're hitting the right input. The advantage you gain is not going to be worth you being unhappy with a controller that doesn't suit you.
I'm the keyboard player in racing games for more than 20 years. My friends always looked at me as at some crazy person when I choose keyboard above joystick. Needless to say there were constantly shocked when I beat them endlessly. It always was weird to me seeing lot of players prefer comfortable handling of gaming device (and it's still very subjective) above some real advantages of keyboard.
Yet we are still here, my friends call me weirdo :D
The real advantage of a controller is not in cars that are perceived as hard to drive, it's in driving cars with legitimate handling issues like severe understeer or severe wheelspin (in games that favour grip driving).
Learn trail braking on a controller and you will find that boat that didn't want to turn in actually corners quite nicely.
There is also the problem that if you're not actually good at using partial inputs it slows you down massively. You have to reach a very high degree of proficiency at it before you see any gains whatsoever.
This isn't an apples to apples comparison if you take into account that driving aids in racing games are there to offset a lack of control or skill.
If you go into online servers or gaming with a realistic set of rules like enforced cockpit view and no "fake driving helpers" meaning only factory TC and ABS like a real GT3 car, you'll notice some people can still pull quick hotlaps on a keyboard or gamepad with a specific setup, but they can't run a 1h endurance or even a 20min sprint without completely cooking the front tires from steering too much, just as an example.
Not to mention that in many cars in some games you need to do threshold braking and you can't brake 100% without locking up.
Assetto Corsa has imho the best keyboard implementation because there are 2 keys for accell and 2 for braking, you have quick and slow keys. And you can steer with mouse, which gives an insane level of analog precision that not even a gamepad is capable off. I've seen some keyboard and mouse players be very quick in Assetto with realistic settings (as much as any wheel user) because of this special implementation.
Okay, so...first of all, show me where he said "keyboard is better in all racing games".
Second of all, he showed examples of games where using keyboard IS better than using controller when given enough time to - IF needed - transition
Thirdly, he thoroughly explained that driving aids for keyboard and controller are implemented to bridge the gap with the precision of wheels, since neither a 0-100 button nor a small flimsy analog stick controlled with your thumb could ever match the range of motion and precision of your hands. And then you claim that his statement is incorrect while proceeding to regurgitate the SAME EXACT THING he said, but dumbed down???
You lack the intelligence to interpret what's being said, and apply it into the proper context. Either that, or you're playing devil's advocate and acting in bad faith to undermine him.
@@KainRazielMT I never talked about which was better. I just said the comparison will favour keyboard because it is intended to demystify the "can't race without a wheel" which is a positive message.
In my first paragraph I also mention some titles will enforce "driving aids off" in online or competitive racing which can hinder the keyboard or controller experience... as a warning for people to not get disappointed if that happens.
But in reality honest hard truth in hardcore racing simulators is that by sacrificing precision in wheel turning in the front tires, you end up scrubbing them over the ideal slip angle generating overheating, damaging and wasting rubber, which will provide a competitive disadvantage.
Keyboard does have competitive advantages, regarding "inhuman" speed for max inputs and strong transitions that can't be replicated in real life.
In Assetto Corsa, with mouse steering, you overcome the lack of precision in keyboard turning, making it a surprisingly precise input method and making keyboard implementation with some novelty regarding having more than 1 "state" or "input rate" for gas and brakes.
Not mentioning this crucial feature from one of the best simulators and probably the most played sim racing title on the market is a bit surprising and my intent was to complete the information.
I wasn't really criticising his video but now after reading your last paragraph you seem to be mentally deranged to attack me personally in such an unprovoked manner.
And your lack of intelligence failed to realise that with a mouse you can have a 100% analog input as much as any steering wheel.
The problem for extreme car control is the lack of force feedback.
But some of the alien eSports level players use very light low effort force feedback because at very high splits, the amount of hours practiced is so high that the driving movements become like "guitar hero" practiced mechanical movements to be repeated with precision and less dynamic adjustment.
There are plenty of insanely fast lap times with keyboards and controllers. And also without driving AIDS and just full on mind blowing precision from huge amounts of practice and perfection.
(My first week with a wheel I was worse than with keyboard actually lol)
But again, in extremely competitive conditions, (Top 5% in the world) and very dynamic races (endurance, tire wear, fuel consumption, pit stops, damages that affect aero) (changing brake bias during racing) (changing driving style to save fuel or tires) (dealing with multiclass lapping traffic or being lapped)
It becomes insanely hard to perform consistently and drive every lap like your best hot lap ever with any input method, but a high quality expensive sim rig will get you closer to your best.
It is a law of extreme diminishing returns:
the Logitech G923 over the keyboard is a much bigger upgrade than a "mid level" Thrustmaster TS-PC over a G923, and a Fanatec Podium DD1 while feeling premium and immersive, will provide you a small % improvement over the Thrustmaster TS-PC.
Depending on how hardcore you are, it might not even be worth it.
I do compete for world records frequently and in some platforms I've been one of the highest ranked players when I was playing consistently.
There is a much bigger problem in sim racing that makes addressing a wheel with almost the same attitude as a controller or keyboard.
in real life there is very limited seat time, and the ability to min-max is much lower, and reality is more analog, dynamic, changes more, less predictable, more possibilities.
People can just practice whatever for 10000 hours and get really really good at it.
But no driver does that. I pride myself in joining a track and car I've never driven before, figure out how to drive and setup in a practice session, get cosy with it in qually and win the race like I just did today at LFM with the Ferrari 296 GT3.
The difference with IRL good and bad drivers, is not only driving technique, but your mental ability to adapt, overcome, change and setup the car, figure stuff out on the fly while driving.
Racing is not just driving, it's so much more than that.
Racing is being alive, the car and the track are living things. The smells, loud sounds vibrations, heat of the car, burning heat of the just used tires resting in the pits... waiting to get scraped clean...
Weight tire thread changes, track rubber, temps, adapt setup, figure pit strategies, react to other's strategies, change stuff in the car every lap while driving. See what works and what doesn't. Telemetry data, sector times, why a guy is faster than me in a specific corner. Looking at everyone's lap times figuring out what to do with my pace...
This is why people that have the huge money and are extremely competitive are willing to pay 6000€ 3000€ on each simcube active pedal to have FFB on their pedals. That money could afford hydraulic motion systems but they won't buy that because it will add inconsistency to the driving.
Some of the fastest guys have the less "flashy fun" looking rigs.
Yet one of my first top 2 world records in AMS2 was using a 200€ Logitech G923.
And I've seen top 1 done by a controller.
I just advise people to avoid having high hopes online racing in hardcore simulators, but if they go for more arcade titles like Forza Motorsport they can actually be the fastest in the world with a keyboard.
And shitty arcade games like NFS Heat, wheels don't even work properly there, can't setup steering ratio properly, filters are always on. The game only plays good on keyboard and controller and will play like shit on a 10 000€ sim rig.
No need for your mental breakdown over my opinion of keyboards.
I still advise, if you really love racing, specially in driver's POV cockpit view, save a bit get at least a cheap logitech, just for the enjoyment of it. But then also needs a fast response (1ms or lower) big size close to eyes screen for a realistic image and sense of speed.
The input method alone isn't the biggest deal. It's a ton of things put together.
Ever since I've adjusted screen position 54cm from eyes and fov for simulation, I can't figure out to be good with keyboard or controller or use the 3rd person camera anymore.
But the other day I played someone else's PC on keyboard just fine, different dynamics.
I've also sat on a few rigs, and 1 rig the guy had triples setup so bad I couldn't read the distance braking boards... he had a really expensive rig that was completely undriveable. It was easier to drive Assetto Corsa on my GF's keyboard laptop. 🤣😂🤣😂
I disagree, in dirt rally you need brake control so your brakes don't lock up some stages are annoying cause you have to spam brake on keyboard I tried both inputs I use controller now. On tarmac stages keyboard performs the worst. Forza horizon is similar if you are like me and have all the assists and abs off.
And also he says physics are quite forgiving... Not sure about Dirt Rally 2.0, but clearly he hasn't played Sweden, Wales or Greece in the first Game, a small bump on the edge of the road or a high speed jump can definitely send You flying and make You roll like 10 times 😂😂😂
Your content's became top-tier ever since you left Forza and focused on the racing genre as a whole. That type of myth-busting is actually really cool.
I wonder if you'd make a video regarding Race 103 in Need for Speed: Underground?
Keep up the good work!
2:49 to skip red magic ad
In Circuit Superstars, keyboard only has a slight advantage while hot lapping.. in-race, when fuel strategies which require lift/coast or less than full throttle approaches create an advantage, then the input devices are equal.
You really got to make a video about the driving physics in Mafia 2, I feel it puts actual racing sims to shame
already covered m1. its better than m2 at least for its time
Sepi , brother , don't you want to come out of grave and bless us with a video?
in 2 weeks
Why would you use NFS Heat as a testing grounds for this argument though lol. I've played tons of NFS titles competitively and every single one that I have played, keyboard is at a high disadvantage compared to gamepad. (World, Hot Pursuit, Most Wanted 2012, Unbound, Payback are a few examples) Also, have confirmed from a few NFS Heat comp players myself, that keyboard is indeed not better than gamepad, due to lack of precision steering. Also, the race you featured in NFSH is pretty keyboard friendly. This testing in general seems inaccurate. Should be done consistently across more titles and with way more tracks per game.
modern brake2drift nfs slightly favors keyboard, but if you're already used to gamepad then that's likely what works the best for you
@@seP4 According to what tho? Micro steering cannot be replicated by keyboard without essential speed loss. It’s necessary in both b2d and grip handling models from most blackbox games. Kb comp nfs players have never been able to compete consistently with gamepad players across multiple titles, in fact, lots of them eventually switched to gamepad and saw positive results.
the results, and i dont see any other tests. i see the only person who tested this achieved better results with keyboard despite being biased against it, and doesn't see a reason to switch yet
@@seP4 and yet the results are flawed, so
Smoking that keyboard pack
I would like to see some sims like Assetto Corsa or ACC, Richard Burns Rally, Live For Speed. Also F1 would be interesting to see.
this could have been more interesting with analog keyboards, because you can still get benefits of digital steering and benefit of throttle controlling with analog keys on a game like forza.
0:55 This is actually why i initially had a hard time switching from Keyboard to Controller. I was so not used to the speed difference between the two. I was suddenly always hitting traffic, something i had an easier time dodging with keyboard.
I got used to controller now though, haven't gone back to keyboard since.
every day sepi uploads is a holiday in my book
Analog keyboards (like wooting) are really good for games that have both driving and shooting (like GTA) and don't have issues using 2 input devices at the same time. It's not as precise as a gamepad but it's very close and way better than a regular keyboard for driving.
10:30 the crew thing all over again
I was always one to use mouse and keyboard, I never had issues winning with online sessions. I think it's really a myth for those that say you can't win with a keyboard.
The thing is with controllers, it's much more comfortable. The older I got, the more I use controllers for most of my games now.
I've only been using gamepads (and that cursed thrustmaster forza wheel) for only a couple years now and it just feels more tactile playing some games with it. My brother meanwhile sticks to KBM on Forza and manages some crazy laps
We'll hopefully have hall-effect keyboards bridge the 'variable input' gap between keyboards and controllers. We just need future racing PC games to support them.
Have you tried RBR RSF (Richard Burns Rally Rallysimfans)? Basically Dirt Rally but it's a 20 years modded game with 300+ stages and free to play with daily weekly or montly tournaments opened to join or private. DIrt Rally but even more hardcore.
tried it but it favors the same no-life playstyle for multiplayer
isnt the rsf physics constantly updated? genuinely asking
@@seP4no life?
@@RelaxSimmer By no life he means by treating the game as a 9 to 5 job. And not playing it as intended by the developers. Rallying is not F1, repeating the same track and car combo for hundreds of hours just to get a perfect lap imo is just a waste of time and energy.
@@whitenova.2658what you're saying is bizarre to me...
I what world do you have to treat dirt rally as a 9 to 5 job the fk?
And in the end of the day what makes a difference what game you play if you actually having fun waht you're doing?
I love that this video feels like your FH5 content. This is honestly interesting as I use both inputs.
BABE NEW SEPI p4 VID DROPPED
My friend group consists of four people, including me. One person plays on the keyboard, two [me and one other person] on the controller, and the fourth on the steering wheel. We tried this with us, using the same car, built the same way. Only aesthetics were different. The standings were: 1st Me, 2nd Keyboard, 3rd Controller and 4 the Steering wheel. The reason I won is because I have played racing games on a console [PS 3] for a long time so the controls are natural to me. Same for 2nd and 3rd, but they have been playing for less time. The guy in 4th is someone who believes in pay-to-win, has a very expensive set-up and puts in no practice or plays offline to improve. Another time, I, the steering wheel and Controller 2 were playing together on nfs heat, different cars but the same performance score, guess who was begging to be given a win?
The wheel for arcade games is useless. I have a wheel setup aswell. But for games like BeamNG to be able to play properly with no filtering. I play on gamepad most of the time for anything that isn't a sim because it just is more comfortable and makes more sense.
@@vulpix9210 tell that to my friend
@@bluesteel1199 yeah it's a bad mentality to spend without practice. I spend a lot on hardware too but that's not because I think it'll make me better or anything. It's because I actually do practice on the wheel. Also because I drive in real life, like driving in real life. But don't want to risk my own actual car in a crash lmao
I use both keyboard and gamepad in racing games but I think the only game which I exclusively played on keyboard was the Colin McRae Rally 04, Idk why, but it really felt just right to use the keyboard.
Midnight Club 2 is also decent with keyboard but with the difficulty spikes and rubber banding I think using gamepad for percise input is the way to go.
So definitely it's a preference thing, but I will go for the pad in most racing games tbh.
I should mention one issue about your comparisons here. You said the filtering slows both keyboard and gamepad, but many of these games have steering sensitivity options. And in the case of heat, I actually upped the sensitivity via mods. I get ~80% more sensitive steering than the largest sensitivity setting u can make in game. And found gamepad much faster having that control. Plus the way you seem to drive is timing based as is, so unlike a driver like me who follows closer to physics isnt as equal as you. So I think this comparison while not untrue for you, probably needs a lot more testing.
PS:U know those two resets in dirt rally cost u mad time right?
sensitivity is max or near the max in all games but i didnt use any mods
assuming no car damage and 5 sec time loss for reset runs would still make keyboard 0.3 slower overall
@@seP4 i think the loss per is 10 or 15 seconds fam. Its a lot.
I get the message of your vid, but as someone who plays controller over keyboard on many games, but has played both... keyboard only works for games where reaction time is key. Like GTA.
Not to mention its the filtering that's the issue to how controllers lack. As they can be used more sensitively than a keyboard. I just think the vid shouldve talked more about how filtering options should be improved. Try the one handling input mod for need for speed HPR on pc if u have it. Its a great example how the in-game filter is ass but improving the filter makes it godtier on controller.
Then again... I do think your vids have a more "reactionary" review format to them so... maybe thats me askin too much from a smaller youtuber. I dont mean to be a dick I just... feel like its more than controllers v keyboard by what was presented. Hope im not treading on toes.
im all for more filtering/remapping options (see final chapter) but modern games are simply inferior in this regard
@@seP4 well modern games are inferior in LOTS of small regards.
That's what I've been saying for years. Even though I play on a gamepad. I have a video on my channel getting a gold medal in one of Assetto Corsa challenges without assists on a keyboard.
As a life-long PC gamer, I used to only play racing games on keyboard back in the day, because 20 or so years ago many racing games didn't even support controllers on PC at all, so you basically had to play them with keyboard. And let me tell you, there's practically nothing wrong with keyboard in most games (with some notable exceptions, like Gran Turismo), especially multiplatform titles or older titles.
@@beetheimmortal keyboard works very well in gran turismo, i think you meant proper sim games like assetto corsa
@@IJFJJAJI There is no way I'd like to drive the hardest Nürburgring challenge in Gran Turismo 5 with a keyboard, especially since emulating that game sucks and you can't use keyboard with it on the PS3.
@@beetheimmortal I haven't tried gt5 yet on emulator, I'm actually considering buying a second hand ps3 for that one though. but with gt3 and gt4, digital controls actually feel very smooth and intuitive. You can check out xTimelessGaming's video of Driving Mission 34 if you are interested, which is the nurburgring one. he plays everything on a keyboard. he's also got plenty of gt5 videos too.
On The Crew 2, raw gamepad steering is faster ...
wheel if ur using dragster bc of wheel mode
We got sepi getting sponsored before gta 6💀
I'm early, maybe a bit too early, I'll watch the video now, okay?
npc ahh comment
@@haithaaaamm Okay? That doesn't even make any sense, but whatever.
@@Rubdump He be speaking facts tho
@@redcobraqcwhat
I have finally reached the bottom of the comment section.
Your voice is so smooth i can listen to it for hours whitout getting any headache
i always thought keyboard and controller were very similar in pace or that keyboard would maybe be slightly faster because of the ability to make faster steering corrections more quickly
one advantage controller does have though is that you can keep partial throttle while braking, which for some cars in forza makes it much easier to trailbrake and prevents rear wheels from locking up so often
Having played Horizon with kb for years, I can tell you that the repeated key tapping method works amazingly. I have very high levels of precision when driving on dirt and can manage slides extremely well.
3:19 as an arch linux user myself, btw, i feel attacked.
and rightfully so.
On a controller I always held the left stick forwards and would precisely adjust the angle that way, in a weird way it was more like steering than a joystick.
I used to do that too. It was great for those tiny adjustments.
Your entire video is based on a false premise. Analog controls aren't necessarily supposed to give you a superior result (ie: a better time), they are made to give you a more authentic experience (ie: something that feels more like driving a car). The reason keyboards are faster in some games is because they didn't bother balancing two input schemes versus each other because it doesn't matter.
To use an analogy for fighting games...Capcom vs SNK2 for Nintendo Gamecube has all the specials and super mapped to easy joystick commands anyone can do as opposed to complex joystick maneuvers and button combos. This version was given the name "EO" for Easy Operation. This is all well and good but that doesn't mean that a Gamecube controller is a better way to play than a $200 arcade stick. It means exactly the opposite. Capcom knew you'd never approximate the authentic experience with a pack-in d-pad so they gave a cheat mode to the whole input method to make up for it. Similarly there is no real world equivalent to "digital" driving controls and it doesn't feel real at all (one does not "tap left" repeat in an actual car, for example) so they don't care what times you generate. Its an easy mode for kids who can't afford decent controllers. Real talk.
In other news m/kb for FPSes is easy mode because it's better and nothing like holding a real gun. Wii Zapper/lightgun or nuthin, real tawk
Also you completely missed the point of the video and all fighting games are going to be "easier" to play on kb/gamepad for people not accustomed to arcade sticks by default so your comment is basically "Fuck you filthy peasant/MAME user for being poor and/or not owning the real thing", yeah real pleasant and privileged
I was used to play racing games (specially Gran Turismo 1 to 4) on keyboard once my gamepad blew off. Specially on Gran Turismo 2 I could relate a real difference on input controls, and consistently better consecutive laps than gamepad. So much so that I beat an old GT2 Super License world record by 0.002. Despite the fact of keyboard input simpleness, there's a lack of precision when you need to get a better traction or quick shifting - I always played on manual transmission and in keyboard wasn't different: WASD to turn, arrows to throttle and brake, and side arrows to up and down shifting.
Really nice comparision! Love to see that.
how did you play GT on keyboard? on an emulator? if yes, which one?
@@vsm1456 GT1/GT2 on duckstation and GT3/GT4 on PCSX2 ^^ - just binding the keys on controller configs.
I mean, it really depends on the game like you said, you can use keyboard in a racing "game" but it is practically impossible to play a racing "sim" and take a car or a bike to it's true limits with it, like on assetto corsa, iracing, an f1 or motogp game. You can still play those sims with all the assists on keyboard but i think that a controller it's much better, you will need some assist tho, mostly in the stearing cause is really awfull to use a raw steering input on a controller, but you can still drive a car without abs or tc and use one of the analogs for the clutch or e-brake for drifting. I know that using a controller for playing a racing sim isn´t the best option at all but some of us can´t afford a steering whell ither.
i play beamng on keyboard 😜(i cant drive some cars in manual because i cant do clutch control and when i want to drive casually i am spamming W so it becomes a very uncomfortable experience)
mouse steering (low sensitivity for more precision) and it you also have a gamepad, the analogs goes for brake/throttle
@@GamingPigSFS yeah i played it on keyboard recently because my dualshock 3 broke, it is uncomfortable especially in turbocharged cars with low traction, like the Civetta 390GT Group 4. I got tired of playing on keyboard for so long and i was missing my controller so i recently bought a dualsense and it is awesome, especially in assetto corsa where you have full compatibility with the aptic feedback and triggers.
@@Ts7Turbo yeah, I'm gonna get myself a wheel on Christmas, so cool in career mode
keyboard is not "impossible" in sims, you just need some ABS and often TC (but not always), you don't need "all the assists" contrary to what you said. then, some car classes have ABS and TC by design, like the popular GT3 for example, so in these cases you don't need any artificial assists at all
The game pads advantage is in stick rolling. You don't just move the stick only right and left, but rather roll it around the top circumference, acting like a wheel and allowing you to hold angles in the turns.
Similarly, keyboard and mouse is better in Souls games, despite what majority says.
This applies to all games, really.
I gave it a go in gran turismo 3 on pcsx2 after being a controller player in racing games for 20 years. I only ever used keyboard for driving in gta games because of the shooting elements. I spent an hour on trial mountain in the tom's supra and managed a 1:19:495 on keyboard, while my controller best time was 1:18:831.
For me I feel much more comfortable and relaxed using a controller, even when pushing the car to the absolute limits, whereas with the keyboard, I feel more "on edge" and I have to concentrate more to avoid making a small mistake which can cause me to miss an apex or oversteer a bit too much. With a controller I just feel more safe.
Overall for me I don't think it's worth it to make the switch after 20 years of controller racing because I probably won't reach the comfortability that I have with controller. But it's nice to know that I am already competitve with a keyboard and that I'm not too far off my controller times.
If anyone else want to try this car and track combo on gt3 i'd definitely be interested to see what times you get on kbm vs controller. bind the triggers to X and SQUARE and enable the adjusted triggers sensitivty patch.
An important thing to note about TCS is that TCS doesn't really function as throttle or brake control. TCS uses sensors that detects when the wheels starts to slip and then applys the brakes independently to each wheel to slow the car down.
A human driver can not manually apply brakes indepently to each wheel so this will increase control and safety of car for some players but overall it can actively slow the car down by applying brakes mid corner to reduce the cars speed.
It's kind of similar to ABS but the opposite, where ABS senses when the wheels lock up and stop rolling under braking and then disengages the brakes keep the wheels fom sliding.
An experienced driver, without relying on ABS, and TCS, and with a gamepad, could probably get an extra 2-5 mph around the corners with proper weight management. Weight management meaning balancing the weight evenly across all 4 wheels, and effectively shifting the weight from the front and rear wheels during braking and acceleration.
An example, for instance, would be when accelerating out of a corner, the driver is still turning and has the weight of the car shifted to the side, so the inside wheel is lifting off the ground and has less grip. If the driver squares up the car on exit, then both rear wheels are making good contact to the ground and the driver can use more throttle to exit the corner. With TCS on, the driver can use full throttle with bad weight management because the brake is applied to the rear inside wheel but not the outside rear wheel, potentially slowing the car down in exchange for stability.
Tcs doesnt use brakes, it just cuts the throttle
i feel like personal comfort is a huge factor in what control input you'll be better with.
actually it might be worth looking into whether or not analog or digital input controllers are better
4:38 Wait but I thought you said you were no logner doing Forza stuff after what Turn 10 did to you in their latest Motorsport game
im not coming back. just opened fh4 to do tests
Funny how stuff you ask as features in racing games show up in non-racing games like a military sandbox such as Arma 3 that lets you change the curves and filtering on mouse and controller, and even has default auto-centering when driving with your mouse(Though it does not have shifting unlike Reforger, its WIP successor).
Gamepad is better for the couch! 😎
loved the honestly on the outro, that talks very good of you as content creator. Cheers!
I like the video but I am getting sick of the need for speed hate, I like the new games actually.
in that case i would recommend a masterpiece called barro
@@seP4 dude I like your vid but at some point you gotta let the nfs hate go, its a 7 out of 10, let it go.
As someone who've played SOME NFS games and is still lurking around the community, I'd say a certain amount of hate is reasonable
@@IPlayKindredfind someone else then buddy, many people aren’t happy with the new NFS games. Just because YOU like it, doesn’t mean everyone else has to like them
@@Anakin0217 find someone else then buddy, many people aren't happy with the amount of slack nfs gets just for existing, just because YOU are okay with it, doesn't mean everyone else has to.
Beamng is an amazing example on this. First person view on keyboard looks genuinely unhinged with how fast the steering wheel snaps when you're trying to push a super car on a track.
2:20 About that... When BeamNG?
It's a fantastic game tbh,I didn't find a single video about it on your channel,but you know it,will we ever get a BeamNG Video? 👀🍿
Fantastic Vid btw,in games that are more complicated like Assetto Corsa where using all throttle in a corner there is a HIGH chance you will spin out or understeer depending on FWD,AWD or RWD
So I would say depends on the game,arcade games let you use 1000000% of the throttle and they wouldn't care less,your care would be stable,so I would say nah
Also for steering there is input smoothing, especially for Keyboard as instead of doing wheel 0° to 40° it just gradually does it,while on controller it depends on the game,also on keyboard but most games have that if not 90% of modern games for keyboard "input smoothing" if I remember right
Great vid again 🍿
my old pc could barely run it, but it's an option now
@@seP4 Well,happy to hear that 👀
Btw,I just realized that what you said is what I said,I'm now finishing the video 💀
holy yap
@@haithaaaammwat?
Btw,I knew it would be a nice vid lol,I said right to say: nice vid 🍿
Love em
@@haithaaaammif you don't want to read it just don't 🤷
really like to listen and watch what you're doing for us, man
Why the rubber gloves? 🤔
well i cant let my hands touch grass for real
everybody always goes to RWD on dirt in DR2.0 as the "hard mode," but I'd actually say it's rwd on tarmac. when your front wheels actually have full grip, steering sensitivity makes much more of a difference. Spain in particular, what with high-speed turns on downhills, long turns that slowly tighten, etc. I'm cheese gromit in dr2 btw if you ever see me, I mostly play the daily challenges for the reasons you gave for time-trial being lame lol. I also wanted to beat catty7073 because of the kliksphilip video, and after like 1.5 years I did so in daily challenges before he apparently stopped playing when WRC came out (though I haven't found him in WRC leaderboards). I only did it after switching from controller to wheel after the first year though. but also catty7073 would often set times in dailies that were faster than the WR in time trial, so there's that. One of my favorite drives ended in me being 7 tenths off catty in a daily, p1 and p2, and realizing the two of us had beat the time trial record but no-one behind us had. that was a great feelin-wait you're still reading this comment? my point ended like 7 sentences ag--
Yo sepi, why do you unlist most of your videos? Ive been following you for like 2 years and its happened like twice now so what's up?
explained in fm23 video
@@seP4Do you even care about your community?
dont have one really
High quality yapping near the end. 8/10 👍
Controller is faster in gameplay but keyboard is faster in TAS. That simple.
wdym keyboard is better in TAS, the computer is playing the game, not you.
@@Lulzinh While yeah, that is true, but it still requires human input to make the computer play for ya.
@@Lulzinh a human still has to make every input for a TAS
@@OmniStef94yeah, but it might aswell be someone writing what to do, not actually doing it, considering how precise stuff is, even at a fraction of the speed. especially when you consider a few games like trackmania requite long and precise inputs that'd just suck to do manually.
@@Spherzagain, by writing them out not actually playing most of the time.
I using gamepad in every racing game especially sim racing game . Cause I mostly turn off traction control . On keyboard TC off are hard to play xD
2 views in 11 seconds bro fell off
Daniel give me coffee
who the fuck is daniel give me coffee
Dont ask questions daniel just give me coffee@@thedrawg
NPC ahh comment
keep them cheeks closed lil bro
trackmania is an intresting one for input, beacose:
1# there is no analog bracke and akcelarate
2# only ~50% of records is on keaboard
3# there is a pro on a wheel
Thanks for yapping bro
Bait used to be believable
A prime example (for me at least) is "Art of Rally"
I simply can not keep up with my keyboard self using a gamepad!
Xbox controller is a lot better at racing games than the ps4. This is because of the placement of left thumbstick
Nah, fuck asymmetrical thumbstick layouts, I don't see how placing the left stick higher (meaning you also have to reach your thumb higher on the controller) is better
@@zenksren8206did my opinion hurt you so bad
I have played on both consoles
But Xbox is better in terms of racing. For shooter games, i prefer the dualshock.
@@zenksren8206did my opinion hurt you so bad
I have played on both consoles
But Xbox is better in terms of racing. For shooter games, i prefer the dualshock.
Finally. Next time someone tells me that i am lying about being able to drive faster on keyboard, I can link this video.
Funny that you mention Trackmania, because that game's differences between analog and digital steering is very unique, since the devs haven't figured input smoothing or assists despite being in the racing game business for 20+ years.
As a result, certain cars are literally unplayable without action keys (limiting your steering) on keyboard, because turning 100% ALWAYS loses you grip, and that's incredibly slow in that game.
On the other hand, the franchise has never had analog throttle or brake controls, so there's no disadvantage there - quite the opposite. There are situations where you need to tap the brake or release the throttle for milliseconds, which is harder to do with an input that doesn't give you any feedback on whether you've actuated it.
the video feels severely exaggerated about how keyboards can compete with controllers/wheels, when he mentions games like the first one or TM. Trackmania literally is made in a way that is arcadey but has a deep range of mechanics to learn to use. No way anyone can claim a normal keyboard is better or the same as a controller in games like forza, rally and especially sims. Braking will always be a big disadvantage in these games because you utilise 100% of it whenever you tap, meanwhile on controllers you can control that. Same for acceleration even in these cases, going full throttle in some cars isnt ideal. Theres a reason why most avoid kbm in racing games. And lets not forget how much more effort it takes to achieve high accuracy on a keyboard compared to a controller. Consistency matters a lot as well.
Love the kliksphillip-like ramble at the end. Also who could've guessed Sepi was a Lethal Company employee all along lol
In my experience, I find gamepads best suited for racing games that have some form of spinout penalty for oversteering, like Dirt 2. It makes it quicker for me to counter-steer with the same thumb. Whereas racing games with very grippy handling, work just fine with a keyboard, like Burnin' Rubber.
"You're still watching this?"
Yes and no. Was doing chores while watching this.
agha awli edame bede
great job man . keep it up
In pretty much every racing game I start with changing gamepad settings. Smoothing, reduction in steering speed, deadzones, etc. are terrible. I tried to play RaceRoom on gamepad and it was impossible to catch a slide. I thought it was caused by setup or me not being able to countersteer properly but after doing some experiments, I discovered that it was the issue with steering filtering. It was so slow that I was unable to countersteer in time. I switched to raw inputs and became immediately faster and... able to catch a car. Then I added slight steering reduction at speed and reduced sensitivity at low inputs. Now I am able to compete against wheel users in ranked servers.
I play mostly sims now. In pretty much every of them gamepad is viable option but default settings are overly protective and don't allow you to drive on the edge while accidentally preventing you from recovering once you make mistake.
In arcades/simcades max steering speed is so low you can't use advantage of analog sticks while god awful deadzones and steering sensitivity make cars unresponsive and annoying.
Earlier this year I was "forced" to practice on keyboard for BeamNG event, as my gamepad died. After adjusting assists (BeamNG has best steering assists in any racing game IMO) I was much faster than I expected but just couldn't notice small issues with the setup that I can usually catch in 1-2 laps on a controller/wheel.
Would be nice to see Trackmania included here, I see new people talking about using KB or Pad kinda often
A interesting type of steering thats quite usually forgotten its the mouse steering, for me atleast its mostly the best you can get without a steering wheel, i've been using it for 2 years now and i managed to be able to dominate in any racing game i play with mouse steering (even though some games doesnt have any support for it) and if you match it with a good hardware that gets high FPS, a good mouse with a nice sensor and high pooling rate and a magnetic keyboard, all of the advantage even on the wheel gets lost, but this video really showed that people dont really notice that you can play with any device you prefer and just think that for racing games the controller is a obligatory thing, which i disagree with, anyway, i really liked the video and your content as a whole, keep up the good work!
What dpi do you use for that?
@@Squidgy55 1600 dpi
@@uncharacteristickatt Cheers 🍻
I used to play a lot of Dirt 2 and Dirt 3 on my MacBook keyboard before I got a controller. It wasn't too bad to play that way, however I do prefer controllers
Keyboard vs controller is a whole can of worms in Trackmania
This myth also applies to Fighting games and 2D Platforming games, where, again, keyboard actually has a slight edge due to speed of switching inputs (The hitbox has recently gained more attention as people are realising this fact).
WAKE TF UP SEPI FINALY UPLOADED
it because arcade games put consider on keyboard, on the programming section we can see lot of curve when we full press the button. and that curve is already perfect (because first racing games is made for digital controller 0-1), but when we go in pure driving simulation (and not put consider the curve when we make the simulator), using keyboard will be like an hell
(Long comment warning)
In my opinion when it comes to racing/driving games use whatever you want.
But if you’re using a keyboard and mouse on console on an online shooting game you better hope no one knows where to find you irl.
Because everyone pretty much knows that keyboard and mouse is better for shooting games (unless the game has auto lock/aim) but that doesn’t mean it’s ok to use it when you know everyone else is probably using a controller.
Also before someone possibly says something like *oh those controller players are just poor* or *why don’t they just buy a keyboard* you shouldn’t have to buy additional hardware to make a game fair.
Good to see that somebody agrees that Dirt Rally 2.0 has pretty forgiving controls and physics for a rally game, I've played pretty much most of the rally sim games of the mid 2010s onward and I would even argue DR2.0 is more forgiving than some of the WRC games, I personally had a much easier time playing DR2.0 than I did wrc9 + 10 especially with non 4wd cars.