It does increase the range by a fairly significant amount. The issue is that it is factored into the range calculation. The number will not go up with regen, it will just decrease the rate it goes down, so it doesn't really seem like it is doing much. There are, of course, ways to do it wrong, and it definitely doesn't break the laws of thermodynamics.
With motorcycles, terrain and riding behavior really matters. While you won’t necessarily shorten range by using regen, you can definitely get more by turning it off entirely and coasting as much as possible. Cars are a little different since there’s so much mass pushing it forward, you’re gonna get a little more bang for buck.
Depending on the situation, you’d most likely have better range by timing stop lights to keep rolling through and coasting than using regen. Maintaining momentum to conserve the energy you’ve already spent to get at speed will always net more range than if you used regen to come to a stop and then take off again. You will always take out more than you can ever put back in.
I get anywhere from 5-7% energy recapture on my Regen setup. That might not be much but it is extra range and it's coming from energy that otherwise would have just gone into the brake pads.
@@AdventuresonZero you say not in all situations and then you use that very strong word, "always". Coasting is often not practical or safe in city driving. Of course there's the occasional outlier of a steep grade which requires either regenerative recovery of energy or blowing it out as heat since you lack a transmission and engine compression
Which electric motorcycle do you ride? Maintaining momentum is better than losing energy from stopping, regardless if you captured just a little bit with regenerative braking. You will never put back in the same amount you take out to reaccelerate. Timing and coasting a red light retains more energy than stopping and then re-accelerating in urban environments. If you absolutely have to stop, of course regenerative braking is great, as you're losing that built up momentum anyways. however, the less stopping you have to do in any situation, the better for overall range.
@@AdventuresonZero it's a physics problem. Every application of the service brake wastes energy as heat. An intelligent regen system would probably be the way to go. Changing highway speed from 55 to 45. Of course you'd want to Coast car slows down in front of you. You probably want a combination of regen and service break working in the city where you need to get to speed quickly enough and stop quickly enough. You'd probably want mostly. Regen
Years ago (2019) I got to visit with a HD rep at my local dearer after test riding the Livewire. I wanted a trigger for my left index finger for regen. I wanted to coast as long as possible… and then regen to slow. The rep had no idea what I was talking about. Go figure, the Livewire was dropped by HD and spun off.
I think that is the way forward, and some companies are moving in that direction. Most current EV motos are set up like one pedal driving on EV cars, where releasing the throttle activates the regen. More control would be letting the bike coast when releasing throttle, and progressive regen on forward roll. A front lever would/could provide the same level of control
the more weight you have, the better, a company called edison motors are doing a hybrid truck and theyre seeing massive amounts of energy recovering in hilly areas
Unless you do something really niche like start at the top of a mountain with thousands of pounds of logs, regen break the whole way down, and leave the logs at the bottom to be lighter on the way up 😁
I found a video a few weeks ago that did the actual equation to figure it out. For the LiveWire one, I would need a road about 220 miles long at a 10% grade to regen 0-100%, assuming 60% efficiency in conversion
I think most salespeople like to toss it around like is a magic thing, most of that comes from lack of actual ownership experience I feel. Regen isn’t good for range in all situations, as it takes away momentum. Like all tools, it has its uses
In most cases, whatever energy you regenerate gets immediately consumed to reaccelerate. And you’ll never get back more than you take out. Regen is very effective at low speeds, however anything above city speeds with frequent stops, it’s costing you range by losing momentum. Cars have a little better regen because of their weight, however EV motos not as much.
Very true. Coasting is much better than using regen. I read somewhere that if we spend x amount of energy accelerating from 0 to 50 mph and then use only regen from 50 to 0, we only get around 25% of x energy spent.
@@AdventuresonZero yeah, the efficacy of regen is going to be affected by wind and rolling resistance, the greater those forces are the less energy your regen is going to be able to gather at the wheels while decelerating.
So what do you propose? Not using regen braking and only relying on friction brakes?? So rather than converting whatever kinetic energy you have, transforming that back into the battery, you rather waste it as heat? Your arguments make no sense, and I’m sure the engineers at Tesla, Ford, Kia, and other EV makers don’t know any better
Are you ok? Need a hug or something? What I’m saying is that there is a time and place where regen braking is efficient, and a time and place where it’s inefficient. It makes no sense to put energy into a battery, only to take it right back out again. If you want the most range, coasting is better than braking.
It does increase the range by a fairly significant amount. The issue is that it is factored into the range calculation. The number will not go up with regen, it will just decrease the rate it goes down, so it doesn't really seem like it is doing much. There are, of course, ways to do it wrong, and it definitely doesn't break the laws of thermodynamics.
With motorcycles, terrain and riding behavior really matters. While you won’t necessarily shorten range by using regen, you can definitely get more by turning it off entirely and coasting as much as possible. Cars are a little different since there’s so much mass pushing it forward, you’re gonna get a little more bang for buck.
I have a tesla and I can confirm that regen saved me a couple times that 1 or 2% goes a long way
Depending on the situation, you’d most likely have better range by timing stop lights to keep rolling through and coasting than using regen. Maintaining momentum to conserve the energy you’ve already spent to get at speed will always net more range than if you used regen to come to a stop and then take off again. You will always take out more than you can ever put back in.
I get anywhere from 5-7% energy recapture on my Regen setup. That might not be much but it is extra range and it's coming from energy that otherwise would have just gone into the brake pads.
What are you riding? In the right terrain, regen braking can certainly add some energy. But in that same area, coasting can let you go farther
Oh my. It's logical and objectively provable that it increases range. I do like your confidence though. Sounds very genuine.
Not in all situations. If the goal is to travel as far as possible, coasting is always the better technique
@@AdventuresonZero you say not in all situations and then you use that very strong word, "always". Coasting is often not practical or safe in city driving. Of course there's the occasional outlier of a steep grade which requires either regenerative recovery of energy or blowing it out as heat since you lack a transmission and engine compression
Which electric motorcycle do you ride? Maintaining momentum is better than losing energy from stopping, regardless if you captured just a little bit with regenerative braking. You will never put back in the same amount you take out to reaccelerate. Timing and coasting a red light retains more energy than stopping and then re-accelerating in urban environments. If you absolutely have to stop, of course regenerative braking is great, as you're losing that built up momentum anyways. however, the less stopping you have to do in any situation, the better for overall range.
@@AdventuresonZero it's a physics problem. Every application of the service brake wastes energy as heat. An intelligent regen system would probably be the way to go. Changing highway speed from 55 to 45. Of course you'd want to Coast car slows down in front of you. You probably want a combination of regen and service break working in the city where you need to get to speed quickly enough and stop quickly enough. You'd probably want mostly. Regen
Yes, lower speeds like inner city, regen is perfect app for, lots of stopping that you can’t avoid
It ups the range in hills close to the flat plane range, minus whatever you lost through friction and stuff
Hills are good for it, as long as they’re steep enough, curves as well. Long form of this vid goes over that
My car ONLY charges through Regen Breaking. Its a 2005 Civic Hybrid with IMA Technology. It cannot be plugged into a charger
I have an old Prius that is like that as well, however battery only lasts 1/4 mile and at 25mph and below
Years ago (2019) I got to visit with a HD rep at my local dearer after test riding the Livewire. I wanted a trigger for my left index finger for regen. I wanted to coast as long as possible… and then regen to slow. The rep had no idea what I was talking about. Go figure, the Livewire was dropped by HD and spun off.
I think that is the way forward, and some companies are moving in that direction. Most current EV motos are set up like one pedal driving on EV cars, where releasing the throttle activates the regen. More control would be letting the bike coast when releasing throttle, and progressive regen on forward roll. A front lever would/could provide the same level of control
the more weight you have, the better, a company called edison motors are doing a hybrid truck and theyre seeing massive amounts of energy recovering in hilly areas
I noticed that on one of my trips. Lots of gear meant the bike went faster on downhills for better regen
Unless you do something really niche like start at the top of a mountain with thousands of pounds of logs, regen break the whole way down, and leave the logs at the bottom to be lighter on the way up 😁
I found a video a few weeks ago that did the actual equation to figure it out. For the LiveWire one, I would need a road about 220 miles long at a 10% grade to regen 0-100%, assuming 60% efficiency in conversion
And the mountain would have to be 4 times higher than Everest 😂
I've never even heard anyone say that, it's always the brake pad thing
I think most salespeople like to toss it around like is a magic thing, most of that comes from lack of actual ownership experience I feel. Regen isn’t good for range in all situations, as it takes away momentum. Like all tools, it has its uses
Yes you can energy but most of the time you had to use a lot more so you just gain a small portion back from the energy you used going up a hill
Exactly, or on curves, stops, etc. regen is very very useful, however coasting and stopping as least possible is the best way to travel the farthest
Don’t listen to this guy
??
It’s better to have it than not
yep
how do you think its slowing you down if its not generating more range lol.
In most cases, whatever energy you regenerate gets immediately consumed to reaccelerate. And you’ll never get back more than you take out. Regen is very effective at low speeds, however anything above city speeds with frequent stops, it’s costing you range by losing momentum. Cars have a little better regen because of their weight, however EV motos not as much.
Very true. Coasting is much better than using regen. I read somewhere that if we spend x amount of energy accelerating from 0 to 50 mph and then use only regen from 50 to 0, we only get around 25% of x energy spent.
Depends on weight and motor, but sounds about right
Yeah you spend so much energy maintaining speed. You obviously don't get much back when you rarely decelerate.
At lower speeds and constant stops, regen is great. Higher speeds you lose (potentially) too much momentum that it costs you more to reaccelerate
@@AdventuresonZero yeah, the efficacy of regen is going to be affected by wind and rolling resistance, the greater those forces are the less energy your regen is going to be able to gather at the wheels while decelerating.
@@larsmurdochkalsta8808 yep, all those physics!!
@@AdventuresonZero yeez
So what do you propose? Not using regen braking and only relying on friction brakes?? So rather than converting whatever kinetic energy you have, transforming that back into the battery, you rather waste it as heat?
Your arguments make no sense, and I’m sure the engineers at Tesla, Ford, Kia, and other EV makers don’t know any better
Are you ok? Need a hug or something? What I’m saying is that there is a time and place where regen braking is efficient, and a time and place where it’s inefficient. It makes no sense to put energy into a battery, only to take it right back out again. If you want the most range, coasting is better than braking.
Well… hes on a bike so..
?
I guess you bought all the lies because you bought an EV. Lol
What do you mean?