Great project. Invite me over next time and I can hold the door open while you lift that thing out of there. Looking forward to the next episode, really enjoy your stuff.
I love you attitude and willingness to take on, what can be, large projects. I also appreciate you sharing your thought process, it can be really helpful.
Your first airflow was measured at low fan speed. The test blower only had half the flow at its full speed. I think you should have checked flow with the original unit at full speed too. Seems like you would need a much larger blower to keep cool. You must never visit the desert Southwest in the summer. I wish you well in finding a replacement unit. There are many new, low power HVAC options available nowadays. Hopefully you will find a solution that fits without too much modification (cobbling). However, cobbling is pleasurable. Cheers.
I measured the old-fan speed at low because we have always used it on low speed which is plenty powerful. The high setting isn't much different. Yes. There will definitely be some cobbling :)
@@RVwithTito Thanks for the reply. I had a 34 foot trailer for a few years. It had two 13.5 kBtu roof units that in the Texas summer I needed to run full blast to keep cool. Noisy as all get out. I just installed a 12 kBtu Mr Cool split unit in my wife's art room that replaced a noisy window unit. Very pleased with the quiet effective cooling we get.
Looking forward to seeing your project through completion. Looks like you might be shedding some weight taking that big AC unit out and putting in something new.
@@RVwithTito Awsome I know it’s really time consuming just to make repairs but on top of that you have to film everything and edit the video down. If possible do you know which system your going with I’d like to go ahead and place mine on order. lol I know I might be asking a lot. I just want to take my family out for there first trip before the summer ends. 😄
@@clue___ I'm working with Cruise N Comfort in Arizona. Installing a customized version of their larger VES MAXX system which is going to be challenging for my RV. It's not a drop-in replacement and will require significant modifications to make it work. Working on improving my welding skills as we speak :) We've cancelled our summery travel plans and are taking it slow.
The test tools you create for your projects and your planning and engineering solutions are top notch. Thank you for your terrific content. BTW, after two years of full timing with our RecPro powered recliners they are shedding their skin. The mechanics are still great, but the pleather could not hold up to normal daily wear.
Sorry to hear about the recliners. Ours have held up ok (in our old rig). We treated them twice a year. New owner, has a couple dogs. So I'm not sure how the pleather is doing. Will have to ask.
Thanks! Agreed. The basement air is great and much quieter inside. It's a feature that really appealed to me, given the extra space for solar. Plus there's no ugly/loud equipment on the roof.
@@RVwithTitothanks for sharing your experience and knowledge, I’m about to remove my basement AC like yours, I have a bad blower problem and will be changing both blowers any suggestions on what else I should do?
We have the same ser up as well. Just returned from a beach trip. It struggled to keep it cool for a couple of 90 degree days. I pulled the slide outs in during the day to reduce the amount of cubic feet it had to cool. It helped, but not livable if we had a good week of that weather. Going to experiment also. We'll see what you come up with in the future.
Yeah. Frustrating. I'm making good progress and am optimistic. I hoped to get an update out yesterday but wasn't able to. Too much going on. Hope to share more next weekend.
I’m excited to watch how this turns out. I have a 2000 Winnebago Suncruiser with the similar basement AC w/dual compressors. I just replace the evap blower motor, processor board and all the capacitors, too. Each one pulls about 9 amps so I did not connect to my solar system. Thank you for these videos, this will be very helpful.
Yes. Around 9A per stage. I believe I could repair this unit if I wanted to get the parts and spend the time. But it would still be pretty power hungry and that doesn't work with our boondocking lifestyle. Still working out the details on this one.
Actually the little gauge isn't that fancy. So it doesn't calculate the actual Cubic Feet per Minute. It simply measures velocity (wind speed) of the breeze blowing out as Feet per Minute. For cubic part of CFM I'd need to take the dimensions of the ducting into play and do some math. I'm just using it to measure something as a baseline :) BTW the 12V blower I was testing has a 390 CFM rating incase you're wondering.
I recently watched a video of a van conversion Co. using off the shelf A/C units from a big box store. Just your average widow A/C unit, cheap, very efficient and readily available.
Love your channel, Brain. What creativity and the fact that you are revitalizing an old rig makes it even more meaningful. We have a 2002 type C. I've loved your Lectric bike reviews - maybe the 120 outlets could be used as quick outdoor outlets for recharging the bikes or who knows maybe more EV cars will need your help. Enjoyed that episode also. Al
If you don't already have a 120v plug at the back of your rig it might be useful to use one of those circuits for that. When in camp I usually put my ebikes out of sight at the back of the rig and it would be nice to have a 120v plug there for the chargers.
@@RVwithTito Not actually unique. I know Alfa's see ya motorhomes from the same era had the same Coleman basement ac system. I think Alfa also used it on their 5th wheels.. There are probably others I don't know about off the top of my head. Winnebago was just the highest volume manufacturer to use it.
Hello Brian, great video.. I'm thinking that you will not have enough air moving so you may have to do a larger blower or add a second stage to that blower.. also, it's going to be a tall order to do the compressor and the blower for only 1000 watts. BUT I really hope it works.
Hello Brain, Those two circuits will definitely come in handy. Maybe you can turn them into outlets and use them for portable electric heaters or something like that. Just a thought. I am looking forward to seeing what cooling system You plan on using! A 12 volt system sounds really awesome! Looks like You will have plenty of room to work with. Looking forward to the next phase of this project. Keep up the great work and stay safe out there! God Bless.🙏🏻👍
Thanks. Yeah I've got a couple good ones already I use for a space heater which does the job good when plugged in. My primary heat when off-grid is my Gasoline heater (Webasto) which works great. My LP heater is my backup.
Hi . This is what i am doing . Put the two together to give you 240 volt . This will then supply a Domestic Dryer . We are fitting the Swedish ASKO. Washer and Dryer . As fitted to Showhauler. They are small European size machines . TOP quality. The 240 volt 30 amp supply runs the Dryer , the washing M/C plugs into the Dryer.
Another very interesting project. I would look at the 24 or 48 volt marine heat and AC units. You'll get a higher CFM out of them and you can use a smaller gauge wire with 24 and 48 volt, probably 6 or 8 gauge. I think with the marine units you'll be at or under 1KW.
have you looked into cruse N comfort USA? they have a line of DC 12V up to 48V air-conditioned systems. Just purchased 18K BTU system for my 2009 Newmar Ventana.
The basement air on the 2003 Winnebago I bought was completely dead. I bought a new board, relays, caps and motor bearings. All total about $900. Built cribbing with wheels and slid the unit out without issue. Rebuilt in 2 days and reinstalled. Comp #1 drawing 5.27A and #2 drawing 5.16A. Heats and cools like a champ.Did I mention that I had no experience in this area.
I’ve rv’d in Texas in the summer. Had two ac’s 15 & 13.5 and it was hard to get to 80 degrees. I’ll have to see what you come up with but I would hate to cut my blower output by half. I do realize you may not have an alternative.
Wondering about using DC instead of AC? Yes, you save Inverter conversion O/H, but that will not be that great an amount, and IF you want to use the A/C when on shore, a large amount of the Multiplus Charger output will go to running the A/C rather than charging your Lithium bank, but if you have an AC A/C, that gets bypassed when on shore. Just thinking AC will be the more flexible option (as well as saving running some hefty cables as well). Having said all that, just installed a DC 600W Electric Heater (we don't need A/C cooling in the UK :( ) in my RV so I can bypass my Multiplus if I want :) Looking forward to the next stage on this install. It will be a top job as always :)
Did you try installing a Softstart box on the basement AC? I cannot find anyone that has but suppose to lower the amp draw on other home HVAC and RV havac
I didn't add a soft start, but would have if I kept the A/C. It wouldn't be difficult since the design of this unit is pretty similar to a typical home heat pump. You'd have to install two soft starts though (one for each compressor).
Tito, Have you thought about abandoning The ceiling vents or retrofitting the vent fan/fans up top to blow air thru them, just for ventilation.. / THEN, use the floor vents for the heating and cooling?? Might be a lot simpler to do ducting and return air? I am waiting to see what you come up with for 12 the volt cooling/ heating system..
Yes. That's exactly the option I'm considering right now. The floor ducts will probably be more efficient for the 12V unit. I might install a secondary blower with variable control just for ventilation and mixing air. Any benefit to pushing the cold air through the ceiling may be lost through inefficiency.
@@RVwithTito True, I don't have a schematic of the roof structure. But you may be able to tap into the side foam by the exhaust or Max air fan and blow air in and out with some retro fitment.. lol. Just a thought.. Then you have a giant empty end cap...
I am very interested to see what you do here. I have an '04 38R and I was planning what to do for when my heat pump goes out. My first thought is still just putting in a 240v minisplit with 2 zones, as that would still be more efficient than the built in heat pump, but I'm interested to see your solution. Options are never bad.
I appreciate you pulling the A/C out of its hole and showing us what it looks like. It’s a box…😂🤣, that’s all it is, I thought it would be more complicated than that (more attachments) but I am wrong. I do really want to take mine out, take off the cover and clean all the inside condensers and stuff because I know it’s probably dirty as hell. I’ve cleaned and straightened out the coils on the outside of the RV and on the intake end(under the bed). Just not on the inside of the system. I am REALLY interested to see what type/kind of AC you install now. Will it be the same or much colder with less power? Also, you’ve freed up sooo much more space by taking that box out!! LOL!!! Take care brudah!!!
Yup. Just a big box sitting in my driveway now. The compressors are on the right side. Once out I saw some issues that I could probably fix. Not sure if it's worth the effort, but it's a great learning exercise. Believe it or not, my coils are in pretty good shape and very clean. I've only cleaned them from the outside (and under the bed). If you rinse them down regularly (or use coil cleaner) they should be fine. To access the blowers, compressors and refrigeration lines requires you to take the unit out. Yes. I'm excited for what's next....as soon as I figure out what that is 😅
I will have to watch and see what the final design will be. I’m in the same boat with my my 20+ year old basement unit. The manufacturer is out of business and it’s hard to source ac parts for R-22 systems.
Mini Spits are a great option. I haven’t had much exposure using them but in my research it seems you run Freon lines to evaporators in your environment. So rather than using the existing duck work to move air maybe you could run the Freon lines in them to evaporators in the coach. I have watched all your installation videos and your skills are wonderful and I think you could easily retrofit the evaporators. The cooling efficiency would be far better and lots quieter. Just a thought.
I certainly considered the traditional mini-splits, but just (1) the compressor section is too big for that space and don't want to look at it and (2) have no room for a head unit inside. Some have concealed ductless options, but they are built for attics and would be tough to fit as well.
I plan on putting a 12K btu mini split on my 35’ shuttle bus. I took out the compressors as you did and will rest the mini split compressor on the brackets left by my old system. Part of the compressor will rise above the floor and I plan to enclose it as maybe an end table. Should be enough ventilation from the louvers on the outside door. Not sure how many solar panels I’m going to need but I will be looking for something in the neighborhood of 400 watts each. Then there’s the lithium ion battery quantity to consider. Dometic just came out with a 2000 watt 12 volt rooftop RV A/C unit. It’s about $3000 with the wiring and brackets but I don’t think it is large enough for me or you.❤
The second stage compressor runs on the secondary 120V circuit. Just shut that second circuit breaker off and it won't kick in to the second stage. The blowers and primary compressor run on the primary circuit.
How old is the Winnibago? I am sure that in these past 20 some years they have developed a much much more efficient unit that you can replace your system without doing a lot of modifications. I would throw that old unit into a truck bed, drive it down to your local RV service and sales center, and ask what new better options are available to replace it? Now a days they have inverter soft start air conditioners which draw way less amps than a traditional capacitor start and run system. The inverter driven compressor will use less amps, and slow down in speed as space gets cooled down thus using less amps. The blower moter is also an ecm motor variable speed. Ecm stands for electronically communicated motor. They draw less amps than a traditional blower motor. You may be able to get a 12 volt inverter system. I would check into this. I know they make 12 or 24 volt systems for the cabs of 18 wheelers. But its a split system. You need an all in one 12 volt system. I call it a ptac. Package terminal ac. I cant believe that the manufacture does not make a good high efficient 12 volt inverter package system. Hope you get it going.
The system I'm installing has all of those same features. If I were to go to an RV dealer they would probably try and sell me a couple roof mounted units. Don't want that. Thanks for the comment. It's close to being wrapped up 👍
I have a 2004 Itasca Suncruiser and the AC until finally died for us yesterday 6/23/2023. It was starting to have problems and I have limped it along but now I’m at a crossroad. Do I get it fixed or do I replace? Please post your follow up as I am really curious what you are going to do.
Still a work in progress and a lot of work to do. I'll be sharing regular interim updates on Patreon. If you're wanting a budget drop in solution though, there isn't one. They're not really made to be serviceable unless it's a control board, relay or capacitor problem. Replacement units will start around $5K not including labor. So, if you can find someone to fix it, it's worth getting an estimate in my opinion.
Hi Brian, I see you’ve let go of the Easystart plan :-) This looks pretty daring! I’ve thought about replacing the basement A/C a few times myself so I am very curious about what you can come up with. This basement unit we have is advertised as “efficient”, which makes me of course question the integrity of the advertisement department, but not entirely. Perhaps the unit itself is reasonably efficient with it’s more efficient R410A. (does your old unit perhaps still have R22?) but I believe the ducting of our RV is the weak point when it comes to efficiency. In modern high efficiency systems you can see that low flow rates are an important factor in reaching that high efficiency. Low flow rates compensated with big wide ducts that need little pressure to move air. What we have in the roof of our Journey is exactly the opposite of that. We have tiny ducts that need a strong high pressure fan to push enough air through. To make matters worse those ducts are insulated by an inch, perhaps 2 inches of styrofoam from the sun beating down on top of them. Worst scenario. Oh, a note on the furnace/floor ducts: I believe they are intentionally leaky so they also heat the basement. Something to keep in mind. I have thought about adding a layer of insulation on the roof but the simplest/easiest idea I have had so far is to see whether I could replace the existing inefficient PSC fan motors by more efficient ECM motors. Then perhaps if I were to get really fancy I could do the same thing with the compressors. That might make the whole thing perhaps 20% more efficient, but I fear I would be dreaming. I have also thought about switching to a 12V system but there too I have to admit that I have second thoughts about the energy loss in those high amp cables. Very short lengths sure, but there is a reason why we get our residential energy over electrical masts carrying many thousands of volts. Converting battery power to 120V using an inverter that is standing right next to the battery bank might just outweigh the losses generated by 50-100 amps running through a thick cable. Now my latest idea is to maybe get a modern efficient inverter type roof A/C. Yes with all solar panels on the roof I need to find out how to fit it but such an inverter type roof A/C might be a game changer for boondocking. It has no long ducting to push air through and the variable speed compressor and fan motors are again 20% more efficient than the conventionally used PSC motors. I even saw that our Journey is prepared for a roof A/C with an unused 120V wire hidden in one of the roof vents. I hope I have not discouraged you too much because I am very interested to see what alternative idea you are able to come up with.
Will definitely have to check the floor ducts for intentional leaking before going that route. Thanks for the heads up. About the Soft Start. I never needed it. If I were going to keep this unit then I'd probably install a couple. Now that I know more about this unit, it would be pretty straight forward.
I know you said 12V but what about the 120V mini splits like from Mr. Cool. Run the tubes through the ducts and the main unit in the bay. I've seen several you tuber put the in their rigs.
Yup. Considered that at first. They won't fit inside that space, don't want to mount it outside, and have no room for the head unit inside. Instead, I'm going to make it hard for myself. I welcome the challenge :)
My basement unit is still alive, so I hate to rip it out. But I would like to improve its performance and have space under the bed for something like a 5000 BTU EcoFlow Wave 2, which doesn’t use a lot of additional power. It’s output could be drawn into and dispersed through the existing blower and ducts. Have you heard of anyone precooling the air drawn into a second unit in such a daisy chained fashion? Would it help? Could it help with your low power plans?
We have the same rig, A 2003 Adventure 33 but with the 8.1L GM Vortec and Allison trans so really getting a lot out of your content. I just started adding Lithium and Victron charge controller and some ground panels for now,,,, been following since you had the class C..... We have the same Colman Mach basement unit.. it blow like a hurricane but yes with 2 compressors it's sucs up power. big time ... our Onan 5,500 feels it when it kicks in... That's going to be a tough retrofit I bet.. Looking forward to your engineering concept on a replacement. BTW.. your Alaska vids are just AWESOME.. on my bucket list...
There is a guy on IRV2 with similar setup who installed 2x 12k BTU 120V mini split. It worked great for him, except it did damaged the look of inside, because he needed to remove some cabinets and ran some lines. I am curious what system you would choose to use. Great video! I am looking to upgrade to mini split my self as well. But for me, I had to put the outside unit on the hitch, which would affect the look. I am also exploring some options. One thing for sure, no one likes those roof top or in your case, basement RV A/Cs.
I am in a similar situation. I run 50 amp on two AC to cool our fifth wheel. Our main AC went out and I have to replace it, but I wanted to be able to run one of the AC on battery and shore power. Is that possible? Am I basically just pulling the wires from one of my AC’s off the breaker and wiring it into my transfer switch to use battery or shore??
Yes. That's correct. I'm shooting for 1000W max. The newer compressors (and of-course blowers) have variable settings and ECO modes. So most of the time, they should be running at much lower power. Fingers crossed 🤞
My opinion is that your CFM airflow is too low using 12 volts. Why don't you want to use 120 volts which should be more efficient and cheaper to purchase?
The test was mainly to see if I needed more blower. I also have the option of going through the floor instead, which is what I may end up doing. The 120V units out there don't meet my criteria for space. Plus I have no room (or desire) for a head unit mounted inside. Having a 12V system will also bypass the inverter. So I'll be able to power more things while the A/C is running.
I'm really curious to see how this works out. With only 1000 watts of cooling, you're not going to get very much in the way of heat dissipation and I doubt you could get any more than 10 degrees of differential in an RV with their notorious windows and side wall inefficiencies. You're certainly not going to spend any warmer months in the south and stay cool.
We will see. You could be right. The rig is pretty well insulated with dual pane windows and good walls. Solar panels block much of the sun from direct roof exposure too :)
Oh I know. I'm still considering using the old AC tray, but I probably won't and built my own enclosure instead. At least I have the dimensions since the AC is sitting in my driveway :)
@@RVwithTito I have a background in commercial HVAC, you can replace all of the components with new technology. Going too small on the cfm or btu ratings will actually increase the power consumption over longer run times.
The path of current is going to be pretty similar basically running down the frame compared to a cable that's parallel to the frame. You got me thinking though. The dedicated negative will created a shorter current path and certainly wouldn't hurt.
Mini split is the way to go
It will be a mini-split, just not the ones you're probably thinking of.
Great project. Invite me over next time and I can hold the door open while you lift that thing out of there. Looking forward to the next episode, really enjoy your stuff.
That's what my wife said, "I could have held the door open for you" 😀
I hook a rope from the ladder to the screw bracket on the door to hold it open.
@@jerryhoxsey6467 I'm probably going to install a little collapsible kick-stand support leg on the right side. Might use a spare actuator.
Glad to see access doors giving out the same irritation as I have experienced.
So it's not just me :) No I've got a bungee wrapped around the ladder which is working much better.
😂 did the same by hooking bungees on RV attachments.
I love you attitude and willingness to take on, what can be, large projects. I also appreciate you sharing your thought process, it can be really helpful.
And I really appreciate your feedback. Hopefully I didn't get in over my head with this one :) Glad my learning process is helping you out.
Man, you're fearless!... and an inspiration for DIYers! Can't wait for the next video!
Hey Phil. Thanks! Yeah. The RV is a few hundred pounds lighter now :) Th e replacement has turned out to be quite a project. I'm getting there though.
5544444444444444444⁴and the 😅other two two 😅😅😅😅😅😅and 😅😅😅
Very cool Brian looking forward to the system you’re working on thanks
Thanks! Should be fun and educational for us both 😀
Your first airflow was measured at low fan speed. The test blower only had half the flow at its full speed. I think you should have checked flow with the original unit at full speed too. Seems like you would need a much larger blower to keep cool. You must never visit the desert Southwest in the summer. I wish you well in finding a replacement unit. There are many new, low power HVAC options available nowadays. Hopefully you will find a solution that fits without too much modification (cobbling). However, cobbling is pleasurable. Cheers.
Sorry, I just read you were installing a mini split. Good choice. Looking forward to following the journey.
I measured the old-fan speed at low because we have always used it on low speed which is plenty powerful. The high setting isn't much different. Yes. There will definitely be some cobbling :)
@@RVwithTito Thanks for the reply. I had a 34 foot trailer for a few years. It had two 13.5 kBtu roof units that in the Texas summer I needed to run full blast to keep cool. Noisy as all get out. I just installed a 12 kBtu Mr Cool split unit in my wife's art room that replaced a noisy window unit. Very pleased with the quiet effective cooling we get.
Can not wait for the next video,sure you have a plan in your head!!!!!!
There are a couple plans that are still being worked out🙂
Looking forward to seeing your project through completion. Looks like you might be shedding some weight taking that big AC unit out and putting in something new.
Definitely. It was an immediate 200 lbs of weight loss. I can't imagine the replacement components weighing half of that.
@@RVwithTito Has part two come out yet, i have a very similar RV this video is helping me out big time!
@@clue___ No not yet. Still working on it slowly though. Probably more coming in early/mid August.
@@RVwithTito Awsome I know it’s really time consuming just to make repairs but on top of that you have to film everything and edit the video down. If possible do you know which system your going with I’d like to go ahead and place mine on order. lol I know I might be asking a lot. I just want to take my family out for there first trip before the summer ends. 😄
@@clue___ I'm working with Cruise N Comfort in Arizona. Installing a customized version of their larger VES MAXX system which is going to be challenging for my RV. It's not a drop-in replacement and will require significant modifications to make it work. Working on improving my welding skills as we speak :) We've cancelled our summery travel plans and are taking it slow.
The test tools you create for your projects and your planning and engineering solutions are top notch. Thank you for your terrific content. BTW, after two years of full timing with our RecPro powered recliners they are shedding their skin. The mechanics are still great, but the pleather could not hold up to normal daily wear.
Sorry to hear about the recliners. Ours have held up ok (in our old rig). We treated them twice a year. New owner, has a couple dogs. So I'm not sure how the pleather is doing. Will have to ask.
How about an external/outside 120v outlet for one of the spare circuits? That might be generally useful.
Thanks. Yes that's possible. I've got one on the side, but having one on the back to charge bikes and run my power washer may come in handy.
I enjoy the content. I have the same rv . A 2001. My air is working great . Looking forward to seeing your solution. Love my basement air .
Thanks! Agreed. The basement air is great and much quieter inside. It's a feature that really appealed to me, given the extra space for solar. Plus there's no ugly/loud equipment on the roof.
@@RVwithTitothanks for sharing your experience and knowledge, I’m about to remove my basement AC like yours, I have a bad blower problem and will be changing both blowers any suggestions on what else I should do?
neat and looks like a fun gig
Yes. Pretty exciting and great learning process.
We have the same ser up as well. Just returned from a beach trip. It struggled to keep it cool for a couple of 90 degree days. I pulled the slide outs in during the day to reduce the amount of cubic feet it had to cool. It helped, but not livable if we had a good week of that weather. Going to experiment also. We'll see what you come up with in the future.
Yeah. Frustrating. I'm making good progress and am optimistic. I hoped to get an update out yesterday but wasn't able to. Too much going on. Hope to share more next weekend.
Excite about seeing part #2, soon I hope. Happy trails.
Still putting this setup together while working on other things. Glad you're enjoying it.
Can't wait to see what you are going to come up with!!!
Me too 🙂It's been fun and I'm learning a lot.
I’m excited to watch how this turns out. I have a 2000 Winnebago Suncruiser with the similar basement AC w/dual compressors. I just replace the evap blower motor, processor board and all the capacitors, too. Each one pulls about 9 amps so I did not connect to my solar system. Thank you for these videos, this will be very helpful.
Yes. Around 9A per stage. I believe I could repair this unit if I wanted to get the parts and spend the time. But it would still be pretty power hungry and that doesn't work with our boondocking lifestyle. Still working out the details on this one.
I believe the air flow measurement to which you referred is in cfm (cubic feet per minute). Looking forward to seeing the completed project.
Actually the little gauge isn't that fancy. So it doesn't calculate the actual Cubic Feet per Minute. It simply measures velocity (wind speed) of the breeze blowing out as Feet per Minute. For cubic part of CFM I'd need to take the dimensions of the ducting into play and do some math. I'm just using it to measure something as a baseline :) BTW the 12V blower I was testing has a 390 CFM rating incase you're wondering.
Looking forward to the project. My 2004 Itasca with the original basement air is still running fine but I know I am on borrowed time.
I recently watched a video of a van conversion Co. using off the shelf A/C units from a big box store. Just your average widow A/C unit, cheap, very efficient and readily available.
Love your channel, Brain. What creativity and the fact that you are revitalizing an old rig makes it even more meaningful. We have a 2002 type C. I've loved your Lectric bike reviews - maybe the 120 outlets could be used as quick outdoor outlets for recharging the bikes or who knows maybe more EV cars will need your help. Enjoyed that episode also.
Al
Thanks for the feedback. I now have a plan for the AC circuits. Stay tuned.
If you don't already have a 120v plug at the back of your rig it might be useful to use one of those circuits for that. When in camp I usually put my ebikes out of sight at the back of the rig and it would be nice to have a 120v plug there for the chargers.
Same here. I have a plug on the side to charge the bikes on the rack. Having one on the back would eliminate the extension cord 👍
I always likes the Itasca's with the Basement air.. The Duct work goes up thru the endcap...
Yes it does. It is a nice unique setup. I prefer it over roof A/C.
@@RVwithTito Not actually unique. I know Alfa's see ya motorhomes from the same era had the same Coleman basement ac system. I think Alfa also used it on their 5th wheels.. There are probably others I don't know about off the top of my head. Winnebago was just the highest volume manufacturer to use it.
@@RVwithTito Being a retired Boat Capt. and a RV tech for 6+ years, This model is one of my favorites because of this reason...
Hello Brian, great video.. I'm thinking that you will not have enough air moving so you may have to do a larger blower or add a second stage to that blower.. also, it's going to be a tall order to do the compressor and the blower for only 1000 watts. BUT I really hope it works.
Yes. I'm going for a second blower/evaporator. We'll see what that does. Still waiting on equipment though and working on other projects.
I just hope you check your roof often. I hear a lot of videos about Winnebago Roof not too good thank you for the video.
Oh yes. Completely sealing the roof and radius was the first thing I did and I check it regularly.
Hello Brain, Those two circuits will definitely come in handy. Maybe you can turn them into outlets and use them for portable electric heaters or something like that. Just a thought. I am looking forward to seeing what cooling system You plan on using! A 12 volt system sounds really awesome! Looks like You will have plenty of room to work with. Looking forward to the next phase of this project. Keep up the great work and stay safe out there! God Bless.🙏🏻👍
Thanks. Yeah I've got a couple good ones already I use for a space heater which does the job good when plugged in. My primary heat when off-grid is my Gasoline heater (Webasto) which works great. My LP heater is my backup.
Hi . This is what i am doing . Put the two together to give you 240 volt . This will then supply a Domestic Dryer . We are fitting the Swedish ASKO. Washer and Dryer . As fitted to Showhauler. They are small European size machines . TOP quality. The 240 volt 30 amp supply runs the Dryer , the washing M/C plugs into the Dryer.
Can you please post links what you are talking about please?!? I’m intrigued…lol
Nice! I wish we had the extra space.
Another very interesting project. I would look at the 24 or 48 volt marine heat and AC units. You'll get a higher CFM out of them and you can use a smaller gauge wire with 24 and 48 volt, probably 6 or 8 gauge. I think with the marine units you'll be at or under 1KW.
I like the marine heaters. The only problem is that they're water cooled with sea water. That's why they are much smaller. I know...bummer :)
have you looked into cruse N comfort USA? they have a line of DC 12V up to 48V air-conditioned systems. Just purchased 18K BTU system for my 2009 Newmar Ventana.
Yes! I've been talking to Chris. Also looking at the 18K with some modification. Have you installed it yet?
Have you considered a mini split
That was the first thing I thought of but he wants it to run on 12 volts. I don't think there are any 12 volt mini splits but I could be wrong.
Yes. It will be a mini-split...just not the kind you're thinking of ;)
The basement air on the 2003 Winnebago I bought was completely dead. I bought a new board, relays, caps and motor bearings. All total about $900. Built cribbing with wheels and slid the unit out without issue. Rebuilt in 2 days and reinstalled. Comp #1 drawing 5.27A and #2 drawing 5.16A. Heats and cools like a champ.Did I mention that I had no experience in this area.
I’ve rv’d in Texas in the summer. Had two ac’s 15 & 13.5 and it was hard to get to 80 degrees. I’ll have to see what you come up with but I would hate to cut my blower output by half. I do realize you may not have an alternative.
Working out some options right now. I think it's going to work well.
Suggestion use milk crates or short crappy table as a stand when you pull heavy stuff like this out
Wondering about using DC instead of AC? Yes, you save Inverter conversion O/H, but that will not be that great an amount, and IF you want to use the A/C when on shore, a large amount of the Multiplus Charger output will go to running the A/C rather than charging your Lithium bank, but if you have an AC A/C, that gets bypassed when on shore.
Just thinking AC will be the more flexible option (as well as saving running some hefty cables as well).
Having said all that, just installed a DC 600W Electric Heater (we don't need A/C cooling in the UK :( ) in my RV so I can bypass my Multiplus if I want :)
Looking forward to the next stage on this install. It will be a top job as always :)
Yup. There are pros/cons. I believe a DC solution will be a better fit for how we travel (rarely on shore power). We'll see how it goes :)
Ducted mini split runs on 1500 max watts, i am thinking about doing the exact same thing to my 2006 itasca 38j...perfect space for mini split.
This going to be fun to watch 🦅😎🇺🇸👍
Hope so :)
It would be nice to have an on board compressor with a small tank. Maybe you could use one circuit for that and find a basement space to mount it.
I have a working solution for my compressor. Check out this video th-cam.com/video/vhefoCx3Mw0/w-d-xo.html
Did you try installing a Softstart box on the basement AC? I cannot find anyone that has but suppose to lower the amp draw on other home HVAC and RV havac
I didn't add a soft start, but would have if I kept the A/C. It wouldn't be difficult since the design of this unit is pretty similar to a typical home heat pump. You'd have to install two soft starts though (one for each compressor).
Tito, Have you thought about abandoning The ceiling vents or retrofitting the vent fan/fans up top to blow air thru them, just for ventilation.. / THEN, use the floor vents for the heating and cooling?? Might be a lot simpler to do ducting and return air? I am waiting to see what you come up with for 12 the volt cooling/ heating system..
Yes. That's exactly the option I'm considering right now. The floor ducts will probably be more efficient for the 12V unit. I might install a secondary blower with variable control just for ventilation and mixing air. Any benefit to pushing the cold air through the ceiling may be lost through inefficiency.
@@RVwithTito True, I don't have a schematic of the roof structure. But you may be able to tap into the side foam by the exhaust or Max air fan and blow air in and out with some retro fitment.. lol. Just a thought.. Then you have a giant empty end cap...
I'm curious about this because I have the same basement in my 2008 sunrise
I'm glad to experiment on my rig 👍
I am very interested to see what you do here. I have an '04 38R and I was planning what to do for when my heat pump goes out. My first thought is still just putting in a 240v minisplit with 2 zones, as that would still be more efficient than the built in heat pump, but I'm interested to see your solution. Options are never bad.
There's nothing really designed for this use-case. So we're having to get a little creative. So we experiment...
Looks interesting I will definitely be looking for your next video
Looking forward to getting it all figured out 👍
I appreciate you pulling the A/C out of its hole and showing us what it looks like. It’s a box…😂🤣, that’s all it is, I thought it would be more complicated than that (more attachments) but I am wrong. I do really want to take mine out, take off the cover and clean all the inside condensers and stuff because I know it’s probably dirty as hell. I’ve cleaned and straightened out the coils on the outside of the RV and on the intake end(under the bed). Just not on the inside of the system. I am REALLY interested to see what type/kind of AC you install now. Will it be the same or much colder with less power? Also, you’ve freed up sooo much more space by taking that box out!! LOL!!! Take care brudah!!!
Yup. Just a big box sitting in my driveway now. The compressors are on the right side. Once out I saw some issues that I could probably fix. Not sure if it's worth the effort, but it's a great learning exercise. Believe it or not, my coils are in pretty good shape and very clean. I've only cleaned them from the outside (and under the bed). If you rinse them down regularly (or use coil cleaner) they should be fine. To access the blowers, compressors and refrigeration lines requires you to take the unit out. Yes. I'm excited for what's next....as soon as I figure out what that is 😅
I will have to watch and see what the final design will be. I’m in the same boat with my my 20+ year old basement unit. The manufacturer is out of business and it’s hard to source ac parts for R-22 systems.
I'm getting back to it soon.
Mini Spits are a great option. I haven’t had much exposure using them but in my research it seems you run Freon lines to evaporators in your environment. So rather than using the existing duck work to move air maybe you could run the Freon lines in them to evaporators in the coach. I have watched all your installation videos and your skills are wonderful and I think you could easily retrofit the evaporators. The cooling efficiency would be far better and lots quieter. Just a thought.
I certainly considered the traditional mini-splits, but just (1) the compressor section is too big for that space and don't want to look at it and (2) have no room for a head unit inside. Some have concealed ductless options, but they are built for attics and would be tough to fit as well.
I plan on putting a 12K btu mini split on my 35’ shuttle bus. I took out the compressors as you did and will rest the mini split compressor on the brackets left by my old system. Part of the compressor will rise above the floor and I plan to enclose it as maybe an end table. Should be enough ventilation from the louvers on the outside door. Not sure how many solar panels I’m going to need but I will be looking for something in the neighborhood of 400 watts each. Then there’s the lithium ion battery quantity to consider.
Dometic just came out with a 2000 watt 12 volt rooftop RV A/C unit. It’s about $3000 with the wiring and brackets but I don’t think it is large enough for me or you.❤
Thanks for the video. You mentioned running you existing unit on just one compressor. How do you get your unit to only run one compressor? Thanks
The second stage compressor runs on the secondary 120V circuit. Just shut that second circuit breaker off and it won't kick in to the second stage. The blowers and primary compressor run on the primary circuit.
How old is the Winnibago? I am sure that in these past 20 some years they have developed a much much more efficient unit that you can replace your system without doing a lot of modifications. I would throw that old unit into a truck bed, drive it down to your local RV service and sales center, and ask what new better options are available to replace it? Now a days they have inverter soft start air conditioners which draw way less amps than a traditional capacitor start and run system. The inverter driven compressor will use less amps, and slow down in speed as space gets cooled down thus using less amps. The blower moter is also an ecm motor variable speed. Ecm stands for electronically communicated motor. They draw less amps than a traditional blower motor. You may be able to get a 12 volt inverter system. I would check into this. I know they make 12 or 24 volt systems for the cabs of 18 wheelers. But its a split system. You need an all in one 12 volt system. I call it a ptac. Package terminal ac. I cant believe that the manufacture does not make a good high efficient 12 volt inverter package system. Hope you get it going.
The system I'm installing has all of those same features. If I were to go to an RV dealer they would probably try and sell me a couple roof mounted units. Don't want that. Thanks for the comment. It's close to being wrapped up 👍
GOOD JOB.
Thanks!
I have a 2004 Itasca Suncruiser and the AC until finally died for us yesterday 6/23/2023. It was starting to have problems and I have limped it along but now I’m at a crossroad. Do I get it fixed or do I replace? Please post your follow up as I am really curious what you are going to do.
Still a work in progress and a lot of work to do. I'll be sharing regular interim updates on Patreon. If you're wanting a budget drop in solution though, there isn't one. They're not really made to be serviceable unless it's a control board, relay or capacitor problem. Replacement units will start around $5K not including labor. So, if you can find someone to fix it, it's worth getting an estimate in my opinion.
Hi Brian, I see you’ve let go of the Easystart plan :-)
This looks pretty daring! I’ve thought about replacing the basement A/C a few times myself so I am very curious about what you can come up with.
This basement unit we have is advertised as “efficient”, which makes me of course question the integrity of the advertisement department, but not entirely. Perhaps the unit itself is reasonably efficient with it’s more efficient R410A. (does your old unit perhaps still have R22?) but I believe the ducting of our RV is the weak point when it comes to efficiency. In modern high efficiency systems you can see that low flow rates are an important factor in reaching that high efficiency. Low flow rates compensated with big wide ducts that need little pressure to move air. What we have in the roof of our Journey is exactly the opposite of that. We have tiny ducts that need a strong high pressure fan to push enough air through. To make matters worse those ducts are insulated by an inch, perhaps 2 inches of styrofoam from the sun beating down on top of them. Worst scenario.
Oh, a note on the furnace/floor ducts: I believe they are intentionally leaky so they also heat the basement. Something to keep in mind.
I have thought about adding a layer of insulation on the roof but the simplest/easiest idea I have had so far is to see whether I could replace the existing inefficient PSC fan motors by more efficient ECM motors. Then perhaps if I were to get really fancy I could do the same thing with the compressors. That might make the whole thing perhaps 20% more efficient, but I fear I would be dreaming.
I have also thought about switching to a 12V system but there too I have to admit that I have second thoughts about the energy loss in those high amp cables. Very short lengths sure, but there is a reason why we get our residential energy over electrical masts carrying many thousands of volts. Converting battery power to 120V using an inverter that is standing right next to the battery bank might just outweigh the losses generated by 50-100 amps running through a thick cable.
Now my latest idea is to maybe get a modern efficient inverter type roof A/C. Yes with all solar panels on the roof I need to find out how to fit it but such an inverter type roof A/C might be a game changer for boondocking. It has no long ducting to push air through and the variable speed compressor and fan motors are again 20% more efficient than the conventionally used PSC motors. I even saw that our Journey is prepared for a roof A/C with an unused 120V wire hidden in one of the roof vents.
I hope I have not discouraged you too much because I am very interested to see what alternative idea you are able to come up with.
Will definitely have to check the floor ducts for intentional leaking before going that route. Thanks for the heads up. About the Soft Start. I never needed it. If I were going to keep this unit then I'd probably install a couple. Now that I know more about this unit, it would be pretty straight forward.
I know you said 12V but what about the 120V mini splits like from Mr. Cool. Run the tubes through the ducts and the main unit in the bay. I've seen several you tuber put the in their rigs.
Yup. Considered that at first. They won't fit inside that space, don't want to mount it outside, and have no room for the head unit inside. Instead, I'm going to make it hard for myself. I welcome the challenge :)
My basement unit is still alive, so I hate to rip it out. But I would like to improve its performance and have space under the bed for something like a 5000 BTU EcoFlow Wave 2, which doesn’t use a lot of additional power. It’s output could be drawn into and dispersed through the existing blower and ducts.
Have you heard of anyone precooling the air drawn into a second unit in such a daisy chained fashion? Would it help? Could it help with your low power plans?
We have the same rig, A 2003 Adventure 33 but with the 8.1L GM Vortec and Allison trans so really getting a lot out of your content. I just started adding Lithium and Victron charge controller and some ground panels for now,,,, been following since you had the class C..... We have the same Colman Mach basement unit.. it blow like a hurricane but yes with 2 compressors it's sucs up power. big time ... our Onan 5,500 feels it when it kicks in... That's going to be a tough retrofit I bet.. Looking forward to your engineering concept on a replacement. BTW.. your Alaska vids are just AWESOME.. on my bucket list...
Thanks. Yeah. I'm piecing it together now trying to figure out how to get all the components in there nicely. It's a bit of a project.
There is a guy on IRV2 with similar setup who installed 2x 12k BTU 120V mini split. It worked great for him, except it did damaged the look of inside, because he needed to remove some cabinets and ran some lines. I am curious what system you would choose to use. Great video! I am looking to upgrade to mini split my self as well. But for me, I had to put the outside unit on the hitch, which would affect the look. I am also exploring some options. One thing for sure, no one likes those roof top or in your case, basement RV A/Cs.
Yeah. I hope to do it differently and keep everything hidden...except the thermostat.
I am in a similar situation. I run 50 amp on two AC to cool our fifth wheel. Our main AC went out and I have to replace it, but I wanted to be able to run one of the AC on battery and shore power. Is that possible? Am I basically just pulling the wires from one of my AC’s off the breaker and wiring it into my transfer switch to use battery or shore??
That old ac heat pump was a massive pig.
Yes. Ginormous. 200lbs.
I said use spring clamps and you broke them out 2 seconds later 😂😂😂
There you go :)
OK. We need part 2 it’s getting hot.
Use Bungie cord to hold the door up too or gorilla tape
1000 Watts at 12V draws 83 amps, correct? That’s some serious power.
Yes. That's correct. I'm shooting for 1000W max. The newer compressors (and of-course blowers) have variable settings and ECO modes. So most of the time, they should be running at much lower power. Fingers crossed 🤞
I would have ran 2 ga POS cable and use chassis as neg
48v system with a small 12v for your lights/pump. Run everything large off 110ac. 12v, 1000w? No.
My opinion is that your CFM airflow is too low using 12 volts. Why don't you want to use 120 volts which should be more efficient and cheaper to purchase?
The test was mainly to see if I needed more blower. I also have the option of going through the floor instead, which is what I may end up doing. The 120V units out there don't meet my criteria for space. Plus I have no room (or desire) for a head unit mounted inside. Having a 12V system will also bypass the inverter. So I'll be able to power more things while the A/C is running.
@@RVwithTito Thank you for the reply. I hope 12 volt unit works for you.
Where is part 2
Here's the entire project th-cam.com/video/NZJGYYkSa_w/w-d-xo.htmlsi=nw0hGWimGpVLZ8bT
CFM, Cubic Feet Per Minute. I would see if they can do a 120VAC blower with a 12VDC compressor. The compressor is the power hog anyway.
I'm really curious to see how this works out. With only 1000 watts of cooling, you're not going to get very much in the way of heat dissipation and I doubt you could get any more than 10 degrees of differential in an RV with their notorious windows and side wall inefficiencies. You're certainly not going to spend any warmer months in the south and stay cool.
We will see. You could be right. The rig is pretty well insulated with dual pane windows and good walls. Solar panels block much of the sun from direct roof exposure too :)
minisplit?
Yes. Different kind though.
Probably too late to suggest just retrofitting the old AC tray with a new compressor and blower motors that are efficient. Maybe even go heat pump.
Oh I know. I'm still considering using the old AC tray, but I probably won't and built my own enclosure instead. At least I have the dimensions since the AC is sitting in my driveway :)
@@RVwithTito I have a background in commercial HVAC, you can replace all of the components with new technology. Going too small on the cfm or btu ratings will actually increase the power consumption over longer run times.
@@arthurcutting9227 Appreciate that. I'll keep it in mind.
CFM cubic feet per minute
That would be volume. You'd have to factor in the dimensions of the ducting. This cheap gauge just measures air speed.
@@RVwithTito didn't know that
Don’t use the chassis for the groundv
All 12v grounds end up at the chassis on a motorhome
The path of current is going to be pretty similar basically running down the frame compared to a cable that's parallel to the frame. You got me thinking though. The dedicated negative will created a shorter current path and certainly wouldn't hurt.
24 or 40 V would be more efficient
you system is worthless in south texas. Im laughing