The max distance line is high, turned over and flattens out but doesn't fade, just rides on it's own glide. But a flat shot with a neutral disc, one that will turn a little and fade a little is a better golf shot. Currently, my distance driver for golf shots is a 177g Quantum Stardust Millennium Falcon. But I also have a 140g Blizzard Boss for throwing max distance lines for fun.
I have a Star Lite Boss (floater, somewhere round 140g).. and I can hit 100m (330ft.. my max) with it in the right conditions... but getting the (at least) 45deg Hyzer right so it doesn't flip into the stratosphere... or turn over for a roller... I love giving it to good players... telling them it needs deep Hyzer and pull back the throttle A LOT... and they still turn it over... (If only I could turn over other 13 speed 0, 3 discs with my super strong (medium noodle) arm. (That 100m is actual distance.. Length of an NZ rugby field, but I'm sure I throw at least 400ft Internet distance) q8D
For me it's neither. I can throw the farthest with just a stable disc thrown flat or slight hyzer. When I attempt a hyzer flip with an understable disc my accuracy is terrible and if I try to throw overstable on anhyzer even if I throw it well it doesn't go as far and I'm likely to screw it up. Just throw a golf shot!
I'm with you... I throw a Champion Beast for a reliable fade... An SPZ3 which flies like an arrow 5 ft off the ground.. Or overdisc with a Catalyst for straight with fade.. but I actually somehow get it to -2 turn and hold in the lightest of headwinds.. and if I go high it beefs from 1/2 way on. Have you tried a Wave... for incremental straight distance I have... Proxy Bounty SPZ3 (Superhero, Trilogy challenge 2020 I was given after finding it).. and I mean 300 ft with barely a couple of feet turn or fade if low... Turns above 5ft, fades harder if higher.. Scorch (well used but only flippy in headwind... Champ Beast.. turns in light headwind but reliable fade... Catalyst... fades hard if I get it wrong. Turns in headwind but reliable fade.. Pulls out of my hand (wide rim 13 speed) if I don't concentrate in power grip with the main power of the grip being in the little and next up finger (This grip has near zeroed my 'pull out early' drives and leaves my wrist a little more relaxed.)
My noodles throw 300ft (330 max). My best distances are a 175g Champion Beast that flies straight, ever so slightly flippy but a good straight or fade finish (unless there's a slight headwind, then it moves off right (RHBH)) I get nearly the same distance with my Gold Orbit Diamond or StarLite Boss (Both extreme Vegans (Anti-Beef)). I can back off the lightweight Boss and still get max distance.. Diamond got me 350. But... my Catalyst, Wave and SPZ3 are very straight, and get there too... Thing is... The last 3 and the Beast, are far more reliable as they are straight, so I can throw them 300 fairly low (The SPZ3 (Trilogy Challenge 2020) I can throw 300ft only 5ft off the surface so in almost ant wind direction... tho it does get a little Vegan into head wind. in perfect conditions the SPZ3 barely moves off the straight line by a few feet and often lands 300ft in a dead straight path.
Nick krush had a really interesting take on this subject. It would seem that hyzer relases really benefitted from nose down but flex shots didnt mind some nose up. He went really deep into the rabbit hole in the science but it sure was a "you said wut now" I think if you have some space the stable/overstable shot is more safe but in the woods you still need distance that is just on a rope the entire way
I would think the less stable discs are spread more due to them being so different from eachother compared to the discs we below 400' almost should avoid completely, max weight high speed stable to overstable. Ofc. the flex adds a small inconsistency but as we see Ohn, it is often controllable ;D
I prefer lighter, well seasoned / beat-in overstable discs thrown on a mild anhyzer angle for max distance. Was a few feet shy of hitting 500ft a few times in a row last week with a 168g star Destroyer that has met dozens of trees over the last 6 months. Not a great flight path for most shots though. Huge S-curve.
Tern or a Sword is suppose might be my "bomber" discs, but I rarely have a chance to unlesh the beast, I feel like out on the course there is always a shape Im trying to accomplish, so sometimes its a Grace or beat in Sergeant, or Raider. Honestly my big distance shot is a roller, with a Tumbleweed or Captain
'Unleash the Beast"... Do you HAVE a 'Beast' (Innova).? A Champion Beast might give you a straighter flight with a nice fade at the end, and allow a bit of Hyzer/Anhyzer shaping on the way... (but everyone throws a disc differently and I'm only 330ft max, 300ft on any other day (With the beast).. My DX and Glow beasts are super flippy, the DX may be my max but its a flip and run away right unpredictable flight.
@@TheButlerNZ I don't have a Beast, I have a Musket in the bag that is beat in to very neutral like you say. It will turn and drift if thrown flat and hard but to be honest I don't throw it a ton BH. I used to when it had more of a fade. It's not super glidey tho, so if I want distance out of that 10 speed spot I'm going Hyzer flip Tumbleweed. But yeah, there might be a spot to fill right there, a 10 speed I can throw flat and hard with good glide, I would use this on a 325-345 ft shot.
@@prattacaster A flat shot really shines when there's wind against your hyzer flip.. By the way... In a cross wind, put the wind to your back and use an unstable disc, it flips into the wind and the wind want's to push it away... and you'll get a long straight result (Having forearm and backhand helps if the crosswind is from the other direction.
@@prattacaster OK... Say you have a cross wind at your back... You throw a stable disc flat... It tips away from the wind, exposes underside, goes to the next state over... You throw it Hyzer, it goes sideways faster than a politician caught in a lie.. Throw it Anhyzer, it exposes the top to the wind, slams into the ground. sooo... Throw a flippy... Anhyzer and it will go roller.. but at least the top is facing the wind and it may at least go forward... Flat... it MAY turn over exposing the top and hit the ground.. BUT... it depends on the strength... for light throws (likes putting... Throw a Proxy flat.. with the wind on your back.. and it will go straight longer than anything over stable... now for more distance... A little hyzer... it exposes the bottom to the wind but the disc will quicly go up to flat... and heres the trick... it WANTS to turn into the wind and drop the wind side, exposing the top... BUT.. the wind wants to push it away and expose the bottom... the result.. the disc will fly straight... I live in Owhiro Bay, Wellington NZ, near the south coast (u can google it)... There is a couple of playing fields up the road that have ONLY northerly or southerly winds (predominantly northerly to the sea) I spent a day (and a LOT of live games) testing this (Including yesterday... which I noted something Ill mention soon)... I was throwing my Diamond (good luck finding anything other than a rollo more Vegan (flippy) than that... I was throwing it from one side of the field to the other, straight, in at least a 30k breeze (about as fast as I ride my MTB sitting down)... My Beast would flip or dive.. My stable discs either hit the ground or anhyzered up, stalled.. and hit the ground... or just flipped overhead and away..... a very neutral disc thrown very hard was ok but the slightest underside showing and they were gons (My SPZ3 is an arrow dead flat (300ft at 4-5ft). Even the proxy went straight but I couldn't forehand the deep rim on the return. What I noted yesterday... I was upshooting my Bounty.. and kept aiming a little upwind... and thats where it went, it didn't push back as my brain was trying to say it would... and so was the Proxy, and when throwing flat, the crosswind had a similar effect of adding speed and made it flip so I needed to work on giving it at least 5deg Hyzer.. Give it a try. Back to the wind, light Hyzer, flippy disc (doesn't need to be Diamond flippy.. Bounty or Proxy, Beat in Leopard...
I have a natural hyzer release, and really struggle to throw anny without serious nose up (seriously, I had a Rollo pan out). So for me even your "flippy" discs are too beefy. My best bomber is a g-blend Maya, and a gstar Destroyer is my headwind driver. But when I do get a good rip on a stable flex line it seems like I get free distance. Point is, this is definitely a YMMV scenario.
yeah for sure everyone will be different! My natural release is on hyzer too, I tend to have difficult time throwing flat or anny. But I've gotten better recently throwing flexs for distance.
I've got a couple of people to throw a liltle flatter with "Chicken Wing" Pit the disc under your chin... now lift/drop/lift/drop your elbow without moving the disc... Like the Chicken dance... Now lift that elbow so it's level with your wrist and your forearm is horizontal just below your chin... light bent knees but straight back.... YEET. (Now actually do what you do with your body position etc.. but try keeping that elbow UP and your back straight up...Course ALL my throws are basically dead flat and I use under/over stable discs to turn left/right coz I haz no forearm.. (Oh sorry, this is assuming you throw Backhand.... Keeping the back vertical works forearm but my forearm is barely 250ft (my mate throws 400 forearm as his native throw, switched and now out throws me backhand.... sod !) q8)
Hades and Zeus might have been a better comparison. Both have 2.3 Rim width, whereas the Nuke is 2.5 RW. With your arm speed it appears that the Hades is better for you in terms of stability and flight. Or flip into a headwind then maybe the Nuke would be the better choice.
Axion call it a -1... but for 55yo 300ft noodles like me, the only flippy I get, is when it hit's the tree on the left and rolls into the next state... (luckily I throw flat and long so it's a great straight with a hard left fade and skip). I just love the feel of MVP even for the forearm I don't have.
I only get discs to 300, probably. Heat or a dx leopard. Like to throw hyzer. Anhyzers and stable discs aren't my thing. They feel hard on my body and the accuracy is poor. My form is just more for flippy discs
Have you tried a Wave, very effortless for stable... By Champion Beast is my most reliable... throw flat, 330ft with nice fade at the end.. Hyzer and it doesn't walk too far off track, Anhyzer and it fades out nicely rather than keeping the turn.. but doesn't feel over stable and Hyzer out right from the hand. It was my 1st 100m (330ft) disc and 3 years later is still my safe place in non headwind drives.
@@SmarteeeSteve Do you need to get more... Work on putting all your discs in the spot you want to put them and you'll beat any 400ft that doesn't really know the rest of their discs. On a good day I can give a 400+ a run (Actually my mate forearms 400 and I can beat him (less now he's getting so good Backhand too)... Even at 300 I get some good comments... because I may not get my 330.. but I often get that 300 right where it needs to go... (And I've spent so much time in Jail my scramble/up shots are getting quite good as I have a big range of throws to get there.)
@@SmarteeeSteve I'm a jack of all trades, master of none... and Disc Golf is no exception.. So I'm sort of in your boat.. 300 ft without too much problem (330 on a really good day) but only a runaway flippy may go further, and not where I was aiming.. BUT... I average an average par... that is I often get -1 maybe -2, but often +2 depending on weather... but I am really happy with this.. I can give good players a run for their money on a good day, I've actually lead a local top player from hole 10-17 on a 20 hole round and he can Eagle a 750+ft hole I can barely par... so 300 is not that much of a problem... I just have 20 discs that I know quite well... I par'd my local with my Proxy, I got-4 with my pig.. and my best is only-5 (over a year later). What I DO suggest... is perhaps you DON'T do a run up... Work on standing upright, Back to the target, feet 45deg and Slowly pull in then flick the disc like a towel... and keep your elbow up... You should be able to throw flat... With a flat throw you might get more consistent results... then work on what ech disc does from there... All of this may be completely useless to you.. but I'm not standing there watching... actually one of the best things you can do.. Get a friend that also throws 300... Go stand on opposite ends of a playing field, and throw 1-2 same/similar discs to each other.. (You can actually catch discs at 300.. (Like an egg, match the speed with your hand)).. This allows you to throw the same disc 10's of times in a row without having to move too far... at one point i was hitting my friends ankles (except he was stopping it).. if only I could do that in a game. )Oh and watch stopping a disc with your foot, a small gust/miscalculation and hilarity ensues as it hits your ankle.. (Nothing like a sharp edged driver to the ankle at 50kph). Something else I have been playing with lately... I had a few early releases especially with my overdisc Catalyst... I tried my power grip but concentrating on the little 2 fingers for the vice and relaxing the pointing/middle finger a little, the result was a relaxed wrist and no pull-outs (I have seen it on a couple of toob vids).
11:06 as you said "going the distance" I have "Going The Distance" by Cake playing in the background. 🤣
But he's driving and striving and hugging the turns...
The max distance line is high, turned over and flattens out but doesn't fade, just rides on it's own glide. But a flat shot with a neutral disc, one that will turn a little and fade a little is a better golf shot.
Currently, my distance driver for golf shots is a 177g Quantum Stardust Millennium Falcon. But I also have a 140g Blizzard Boss for throwing max distance lines for fun.
I have a Star Lite Boss (floater, somewhere round 140g).. and I can hit 100m (330ft.. my max) with it in the right conditions...
but getting the (at least) 45deg Hyzer right so it doesn't flip into the stratosphere... or turn over for a roller...
I love giving it to good players... telling them it needs deep Hyzer and pull back the throttle A LOT... and they still turn it over...
(If only I could turn over other 13 speed 0, 3 discs with my super strong (medium noodle) arm.
(That 100m is actual distance.. Length of an NZ rugby field, but I'm sure I throw at least 400ft Internet distance) q8D
For me it's neither. I can throw the farthest with just a stable disc thrown flat or slight hyzer. When I attempt a hyzer flip with an understable disc my accuracy is terrible and if I try to throw overstable on anhyzer even if I throw it well it doesn't go as far and I'm likely to screw it up. Just throw a golf shot!
I'm with you... I throw a Champion Beast for a reliable fade... An SPZ3 which flies like an arrow 5 ft off the ground.. Or overdisc with a Catalyst for straight with fade.. but I actually somehow get it to -2 turn and hold in the lightest of headwinds.. and if I go high it beefs from 1/2 way on.
Have you tried a Wave... for incremental straight distance I have...
Proxy
Bounty
SPZ3 (Superhero, Trilogy challenge 2020 I was given after finding it).. and I mean 300 ft with barely a couple of feet turn or fade if low... Turns above 5ft, fades harder if higher..
Scorch (well used but only flippy in headwind...
Champ Beast.. turns in light headwind but reliable fade...
Catalyst... fades hard if I get it wrong. Turns in headwind but reliable fade.. Pulls out of my hand (wide rim 13 speed) if I don't concentrate in power grip with the main power of the grip being in the little and next up finger (This grip has near zeroed my 'pull out early' drives and leaves my wrist a little more relaxed.)
The Wynn dragon or fission dimension is sick. It’s like understable but always comes back it goes so far so fast. Fun for forehands too.
Fission is great. Have that and a fizzy time lapse that are my bombers.
@@Scott-discs I love the fission lapse but it can get squirly. Hard to trust in a Tournament but fun disc
I chose the the flex line always but the flex line requires more space left to right
Nothing goes further than my 160g paul mcb hades. Love them
Sounds like a bomber to me
My noodles throw 300ft (330 max).
My best distances are a 175g Champion Beast that flies straight, ever so slightly flippy but a good straight or fade finish (unless there's a slight headwind, then it moves off right (RHBH))
I get nearly the same distance with my Gold Orbit Diamond or StarLite Boss (Both extreme Vegans (Anti-Beef)). I can back off the lightweight Boss and still get max distance.. Diamond got me 350.
But... my Catalyst, Wave and SPZ3 are very straight, and get there too...
Thing is... The last 3 and the Beast, are far more reliable as they are straight, so I can throw them 300 fairly low (The SPZ3 (Trilogy Challenge 2020) I can throw 300ft only 5ft off the surface so in almost ant wind direction... tho it does get a little Vegan into head wind. in perfect conditions the SPZ3 barely moves off the straight line by a few feet and often lands 300ft in a dead straight path.
I have like 6 different hades. From understable to overstable. Its definitely my go to destince driver. I throw alot of hyzer flips
Nick krush had a really interesting take on this subject. It would seem that hyzer relases really benefitted from nose down but flex shots didnt mind some nose up. He went really deep into the rabbit hole in the science but it sure was a "you said wut now"
I think if you have some space the stable/overstable shot is more safe but in the woods you still need distance that is just on a rope the entire way
For my noodle arm it’s an Innova Tern on a flex line downwind.
I would think the less stable discs are spread more due to them being so different from eachother compared to the discs we below 400' almost should avoid completely, max weight high speed stable to overstable. Ofc. the flex adds a small inconsistency but as we see Ohn, it is often controllable ;D
I prefer lighter, well seasoned / beat-in overstable discs thrown on a mild anhyzer angle for max distance. Was a few feet shy of hitting 500ft a few times in a row last week with a 168g star Destroyer that has met dozens of trees over the last 6 months. Not a great flight path for most shots though. Huge S-curve.
Tern or a Sword is suppose might be my "bomber" discs, but I rarely have a chance to unlesh the beast, I feel like out on the course there is always a shape Im trying to accomplish, so sometimes its a Grace or beat in Sergeant, or Raider.
Honestly my big distance shot is a roller, with a Tumbleweed or Captain
'Unleash the Beast"... Do you HAVE a 'Beast' (Innova).?
A Champion Beast might give you a straighter flight with a nice fade at the end, and allow a bit of Hyzer/Anhyzer shaping on the way... (but everyone throws a disc differently and I'm only 330ft max, 300ft on any other day (With the beast).. My DX and Glow beasts are super flippy, the DX may be my max but its a flip and run away right unpredictable flight.
@@TheButlerNZ I don't have a Beast, I have a Musket in the bag that is beat in to very neutral like you say. It will turn and drift if thrown flat and hard but to be honest I don't throw it a ton BH. I used to when it had more of a fade. It's not super glidey tho, so if I want distance out of that 10 speed spot I'm going Hyzer flip Tumbleweed. But yeah, there might be a spot to fill right there, a 10 speed I can throw flat and hard with good glide, I would use this on a 325-345 ft shot.
@@prattacaster A flat shot really shines when there's wind against your hyzer flip..
By the way... In a cross wind, put the wind to your back and use an unstable disc, it flips into the wind and the wind want's to push it away... and you'll get a long straight result (Having forearm and backhand helps if the crosswind is from the other direction.
@@TheButlerNZ not quite sure Im following, do you flip a disc so the crosswind catches the underside or the face of the disc?
@@prattacaster OK...
Say you have a cross wind at your back... You throw a stable disc flat... It tips away from the wind, exposes underside, goes to the next state over...
You throw it Hyzer, it goes sideways faster than a politician caught in a lie..
Throw it Anhyzer, it exposes the top to the wind, slams into the ground.
sooo...
Throw a flippy...
Anhyzer and it will go roller.. but at least the top is facing the wind and it may at least go forward...
Flat... it MAY turn over exposing the top and hit the ground..
BUT... it depends on the strength... for light throws (likes putting... Throw a Proxy flat.. with the wind on your back.. and it will go straight longer than anything over stable...
now for more distance...
A little hyzer... it exposes the bottom to the wind but the disc will quicly go up to flat...
and heres the trick... it WANTS to turn into the wind and drop the wind side, exposing the top... BUT.. the wind wants to push it away and expose the bottom...
the result.. the disc will fly straight...
I live in Owhiro Bay, Wellington NZ, near the south coast (u can google it)...
There is a couple of playing fields up the road that have ONLY northerly or southerly winds (predominantly northerly to the sea)
I spent a day (and a LOT of live games) testing this (Including yesterday... which I noted something Ill mention soon)...
I was throwing my Diamond (good luck finding anything other than a rollo more Vegan (flippy) than that...
I was throwing it from one side of the field to the other, straight, in at least a 30k breeze (about as fast as I ride my MTB sitting down)...
My Beast would flip or dive.. My stable discs either hit the ground or anhyzered up, stalled.. and hit the ground... or just flipped overhead and away.....
a very neutral disc thrown very hard was ok but the slightest underside showing and they were gons (My SPZ3 is an arrow dead flat (300ft at 4-5ft).
Even the proxy went straight but I couldn't forehand the deep rim on the return.
What I noted yesterday... I was upshooting my Bounty.. and kept aiming a little upwind... and thats where it went, it didn't push back as my brain was trying to say it would... and so was the Proxy, and when throwing flat, the crosswind had a similar effect of adding speed and made it flip so I needed to work on giving it at least 5deg Hyzer..
Give it a try. Back to the wind, light Hyzer, flippy disc (doesn't need to be Diamond flippy.. Bounty or Proxy, Beat in Leopard...
Commenting before watching let's go Flippy drivers as a hyzer flip guy!:)
I definitely love my hyzer flips maybe too much because hyzer is now my natural release haha
Team hyzer flip 100%
I have a natural hyzer release, and really struggle to throw anny without serious nose up (seriously, I had a Rollo pan out). So for me even your "flippy" discs are too beefy. My best bomber is a g-blend Maya, and a gstar Destroyer is my headwind driver. But when I do get a good rip on a stable flex line it seems like I get free distance. Point is, this is definitely a YMMV scenario.
yeah for sure everyone will be different! My natural release is on hyzer too, I tend to have difficult time throwing flat or anny. But I've gotten better recently throwing flexs for distance.
I have a similar problem, got to "Turn the Key" fellas.
I've got a couple of people to throw a liltle flatter with "Chicken Wing"
Pit the disc under your chin... now lift/drop/lift/drop your elbow without moving the disc... Like the Chicken dance...
Now lift that elbow so it's level with your wrist and your forearm is horizontal just below your chin... light bent knees but straight back.... YEET. (Now actually do what you do with your body position etc.. but try keeping that elbow UP and your back straight up...Course ALL my throws are basically dead flat and I use under/over stable discs to turn left/right coz I haz no forearm.. (Oh sorry, this is assuming you throw Backhand.... Keeping the back vertical works forearm but my forearm is barely 250ft (my mate throws 400 forearm as his native throw, switched and now out throws me backhand.... sod !)
q8)
Understable discs are more aerodynamic, so they should go further.
But, stable discs are more reliable, and they won't turn and burn on you.
Hades and Zeus might have been a better comparison. Both have 2.3 Rim width, whereas the Nuke is 2.5 RW. With your arm speed it appears that the Hades is better for you in terms of stability and flight. Or flip into a headwind then maybe the Nuke would be the better choice.
Hyzerflips are a much harder shot to re-produce and flex shot are better for the tunnel shot.
A flippy Defy? Wow.
Axion call it a -1... but for 55yo 300ft noodles like me, the only flippy I get, is when it hit's the tree on the left and rolls into the next state... (luckily I throw flat and long so it's a great straight with a hard left fade and skip). I just love the feel of MVP even for the forearm I don't have.
My 9 speeds are my farthest flying disc. Can get them to go 375-400 on a straight field.
I only get discs to 300, probably. Heat or a dx leopard.
Like to throw hyzer.
Anhyzers and stable discs aren't my thing. They feel hard on my body and the accuracy is poor.
My form is just more for flippy discs
Have you tried a Wave, very effortless for stable... By Champion Beast is my most reliable... throw flat, 330ft with nice fade at the end.. Hyzer and it doesn't walk too far off track, Anhyzer and it fades out nicely rather than keeping the turn.. but doesn't feel over stable and Hyzer out right from the hand.
It was my 1st 100m (330ft) disc and 3 years later is still my safe place in non headwind drives.
@@TheButlerNZ yup. Tried waves and beasts.
Don't get anything extra out of them.
@@SmarteeeSteve Do you need to get more... Work on putting all your discs in the spot you want to put them and you'll beat any 400ft that doesn't really know the rest of their discs.
On a good day I can give a 400+ a run (Actually my mate forearms 400 and I can beat him (less now he's getting so good Backhand too)...
Even at 300 I get some good comments... because I may not get my 330.. but I often get that 300 right where it needs to go...
(And I've spent so much time in Jail my scramble/up shots are getting quite good as I have a big range of throws to get there.)
@@TheButlerNZ Maybe I just need to keep reconstructing the things I try to do while throwing.
I'm a bit of a slow learner at coordination
@@SmarteeeSteve I'm a jack of all trades, master of none... and Disc Golf is no exception.. So I'm sort of in your boat.. 300 ft without too much problem (330 on a really good day) but only a runaway flippy may go further, and not where I was aiming..
BUT... I average an average par... that is I often get -1 maybe -2, but often +2 depending on weather... but I am really happy with this.. I can give good players a run for their money on a good day, I've actually lead a local top player from hole 10-17 on a 20 hole round and he can Eagle a 750+ft hole I can barely par... so 300 is not that much of a problem... I just have 20 discs that I know quite well... I par'd my local with my Proxy, I got-4 with my pig.. and my best is only-5 (over a year later).
What I DO suggest... is perhaps you DON'T do a run up... Work on standing upright, Back to the target, feet 45deg and Slowly pull in then flick the disc like a towel... and keep your elbow up...
You should be able to throw flat...
With a flat throw you might get more consistent results... then work on what ech disc does from there...
All of this may be completely useless to you.. but I'm not standing there watching...
actually one of the best things you can do..
Get a friend that also throws 300...
Go stand on opposite ends of a playing field, and throw 1-2 same/similar discs to each other..
(You can actually catch discs at 300.. (Like an egg, match the speed with your hand))..
This allows you to throw the same disc 10's of times in a row without having to move too far... at one point i was hitting my friends ankles (except he was stopping it).. if only I could do that in a game.
)Oh and watch stopping a disc with your foot, a small gust/miscalculation and hilarity ensues as it hits your ankle..
(Nothing like a sharp edged driver to the ankle at 50kph).
Something else I have been playing with lately... I had a few early releases especially with my overdisc Catalyst...
I tried my power grip but concentrating on the little 2 fingers for the vice and relaxing the pointing/middle finger a little, the result was a relaxed wrist and no pull-outs (I have seen it on a couple of toob vids).