that's exactly what is it :) I'm Dutch, and its kind of like.. ''Why would i waste both your and my own time in spinning some sort of weird confusing lie or roundabout way in saying something'' ''No dear we'd rather be straight to the point and help you with it.''
I (a Dutch man - Frisian actually, even worse!) have a lot of American colleagues and have done a lot of business in America. Hell, even my wife is American! Every time I visit a US company I get the tour, get introduced to everyone ("our friend from Holland") and then about 10-15 minutes is spent by small talk in the meeting room to make you feel at home. I usually shorten that by 9-14 minutes by making compliments to the host about his company (add a comment about a specific detail), the friendly and welcoming reception, the excellent coffee, stating that I feel totally at home and it's a good start of a productive meeting. Thank you very much for making me feel so welcome and at home. That basically shortents the "courting" and finishes the small talk. "Now, I have prepared a few agenda points and what I would like to achieve with this meeting is this: ". 😁 My colleagues, once they are used to it, appreciate the directness. The others I send the very instructive pocket: "Dealing with the Dutch"
@@alucardio1732 Je merkt wel dat men erg voorzichtig is als de baas spreekt, en daar niet zo snel een kritische vraag over stelt. Je wilt niet negatief in de belangstelling komen. Wij Nederlanders doen misschien wel eens te vaak ons mond open ;)
Dutchie here. Look, I'm never "happy" to receive the negative feedback but boy is it helpful, and a huge timesaver, it also contributes to your personal growth. You can always decide you don't agree with the feedback, of course. Some people in the Netherlands are also just jerks so you don't have to take everything to hart. I'm always mindful of other people's feelings but there's just so much I can do. We're not out to hurt people in general lol. I sometimes come across as too blunt for Dutch standards because I'm comfortable discussing darker topics and people often try to keep things light.
i am not mindfull of people's feelings at all, in that way i am opposite of you, though i am dutch as wel, if i think people are stuppid, i'll call them stuppid. if i think they are idiots, i call them idiots. if i think you smell good, i say you smell good. if i think you need a shower, i'll say you might need a shower, you stink, and yes, i want people to do the same with me, can't change if no one says anything. sometimes people don't notis it, and if you keep quite, than it is more harmfull, than kindness. for that reason, i don't think about someone feelings, being kind, isn't always being nice.
The lack of hierarchy is good for being creative. Interchanging ideas from every level gets the best results in a relative short time where in other cultures there could be some hesitation to bring ideas forward to a higher level in the organisation. The Dutch have clearly been very creative and innovative throughout the centuries as you experienced in earlier videos.
there is hierarchie, but not out on the surface as other countries. Milennnials think there isn't any, but they will face places where it is expected, while they have no clue, because they think it is unnescesary..
I think his last point was interesting: you can be direct and still polite. Because we do also have people who use directness as an excuse to be very blunt or rude. I have a problem with saying things (even compliments) if they aren't true, but you can say "that doesn't flatter you" instead of "that makes you fat". I like the direct style of communications because you can trust what people say, with people from indirect communications countries you always have to guess what they actually mean and it creates a lot of uncertainty.
@@remcoasselbergs3298 I can only agree with the other Dutch comment on humor. I love British humour as opposed to American. The Office from the UK is fantastic (or monty python, Fawlty towers etc.) but US versions of the same concept just aren't funny to me. Or just too.. I don't wanna say simple but that's probably what it is for me.. an implied joke or self deprecating one just works better for me
To be direct or crystral clear does not mean it is correct, but it is a good way for foreneirs like me to have a good laught to hear crystal clear your totaly lack of knowledge in a issue.
One thing about feedback, we have no problem with giving negative feedback but also no problem in receiving it. If I ask for feedback even if it is negative and I get a "read between the lines" comment it drives me crazy to no end.
Well… not having a problem receiving negative feedback usually isn’t up to the one receiving but to the one giving …😉😜 Not sure if most Dutch have no problem receiving 😇 (Yup, Dutchie)
I'm Dutch and I prefer people being direct to me. Ok some times it might hurt but I'm autistic and I'm not good in reading between the lines. So being direct to me to make clear what you mean, makes a whole lot of difference to me. Add to that, you can be direct without being rude simply by explaining why you said something for one.
11:02 no sir, up to the early 1900's Netherlands was the only country to trade with Japan. Brits tried, spanish and Portugese tried, but all three wanted to get their churches in aswell, the Dutch just came to trade..
When i visited Manchester a little while ago, i went for dinner in a restaurant. The staff asked me multiple times if i wanted to have some meat i don't like. As a Dutch citizen, i told the waiter; no, i don't like that specific meat. My reaction caused a little shock. I litterly said: i don't want it. I don't like it. For me, this is a normal thing to do in NL. I noticed British people said: thank you for asking but i'm full. I didn't meant to be rude. I just wanted to let the waiter know how i felt and why i don't like it.
It took my co-workers some time to get used to my "directness" as well as me learning how not to be so direct but to express it in a more "American" manner. Over time they started to appreciate the way I talked because I explained to them that I do not possess the fine art of reading between the lines nor talking between the lines and that I didn't mean any disrespect. In Shrek, you have a perfect but simple explanation when Donkey states: "I like what you've done with the place on such a modest budget" whereas I might have stated: "Pity you didn't have more money but it looks ok though" or something to that effect.
The Irish guy is wrong in one thing , being less creative , its the contrary ! If I can pitch any idea to my boss , however stupid that idea might be , but without the fear of repercussion , it makes people more creative ? You do have to accept though that that idea may be called stupid ? At least you tried ?
As a Dutchman, I am not aware of being direct. But when I'm abroad, I sometimes see a startled reaction. Then it's usually not easy to find out what I said wrong. This while I am not aware that I have said something wrong. It strikes me in foreign films or interviews that I think, well, you can express yourself more clearly, because that's how you get confused when I watch TV. But we are different, I think when I hear you like that.
As a Dutch person. I honestly like a good discussion. Its a quick and easy way to understand each other. Like i have many discussions with my boss of the technical department. Simply on how to fix something, sometimes its my way, sometimes his, and alot of times a bit of both.
I think the biggest reason we are this direct is efficiency I think. It did get mentioned but I feel it plays a bigger part. Efficiency is found in everything we dutchies do. We say what needs to be said, we have a good infrastructure and we always need to plan things because we never have any time, there's always something that needs to be done. Like just eating a simple sandwich for lunch and eating dinner at 6pm. It saves us time thinking and talking so we can actually do. Atleast thats my theory.
7:13 Fun fact: If a Dutchie really wanted to meet up with you besides the day that they can not. They will try to make find another day at that moment. If they dont most of the time they dont want to meet up anyway.
Dutch people expect creativity before communication starts. They do generally not like creativity during communication, besides in the arts (theatre, poems, literature).
Even inside the Netherlands, I'm considered as one of the most direct persons. I'm highly intelligent, and I can't stand chit-chat talk. Tell me what you want, come to the point. Don't lie because i will know. But I'm very good at having deep conversations . Arguments are fine, maybe I can learn something. People see me as harsh but also as extremely honest. I will never avoid difficult stuff, like illness or even death. I find it very comfortable when people come to me and are willing to talk about their darkest struggles in life. I will listen, and if you want me to, I will help you. On the other hand, don't stick a knife into my back because you will regret it. It can take years, but revenge is mine. I don't judge very easily. I will listen to both parties in a fight, and most importantly, everyone is equal. I have worked with some of the biggest superstars on earth. I don't dven know what jealousy feels like. Do I offend people? Absolutely. Most of the time it is nothing personal. Sometimes it is personal.
Im dutch, had it happen once where i had to go to belgium for work. To help a company out with their strategy. So whilst their i told them what worked and what they needed ro change to make it work better. All the belgiums agreed and thanked me for the tips. 1 day later i get a mail saying that did not see me as plasesnt and way to dominant. So i got kinda mad at the belgium colueges the next time i spoke them. And told them if they dont agree or have a different opinion they just need to tell me then amd there. And then we can discuss it and find the best middle ground. Wich they also didnt take in kindly 😂
Half dutch half spanish, living in NL for 8 years never experienced dutch directness and only recently found out about this stereotype, I don't know if im used to it or what but i think spanish people are more direct, dutch people are simply more stern. Durch people believe it or not avoid confrontation, infer rather than directly address some things, walk around subjects etc etc. But i do see how they're more straightforward than the typical american joe
I'm Dutch with ADHD and I can take a veery long time to get to the point. I get sidetracked or suddenly very conscious about blurting something out. But when I get my talk on....dont interrupt my 'flow'; because when I eventually get to the point; it covers all points😂and usually from an angle that most people can't see. I might seem distracted but I'm actually taking in EVERYTHING with hyperfocus😂 Omg...I did it again, didn't I ? Blahblahblah 😊
I'm a Latin woman, married with a Dutch man..... OMG...... my Dutch husband and kids, say straight that my dress is ugly if I ask if they like my new dress, and they don't like my dress. Without inventing a polite way of lying about it. The truth or honesty will help me make a good choice. In the university if I asked, do you like my new clothes? They answered no, because your *ss is too big in that skirt. 😂 Now I love their directness. ❤
I'm sorry nobody is allowed to say that your *ss is too big in anything. There are boundaries lol My mom said that to me when I finished walking off the runway. My friends were very kind to me and all lied that my *ss wasn't too fat.....and then I saw the video lol
As a Dutch person, I'm happy to receive direct negative feedback. If it is justified I will happily acknowledge it. The main point here is to always take feedback as justfied. You shouldn't argue it, but think about what the implications are for your behavior going forward.
The question, Why Are The Dutch So Direct? to me (as a Dutch man) is rather confusing. When the Anglo-Dutch translation guide was presented at 8:48 in the video, I thought it was a joke. I've seen it played out in many satire or sketch show when an actor says something and a funny 'slang' translation is simultaneously presented in print on the screen. Apparently the Dutch are being judged for saying what they mean and mean what they say. In the question Why Are The Dutch So Direct? it appears the Dutch are being generalized as a people with no filter on speech. Even though there are many outspoken and blunt people in the Netherlands there are as much with a refined and nuanced way of speaking. We're not all bulls in a china store . Most of the time, there is no intention to being offensive, just to be clear. I'm wondering; what should be considered as rude, 1 saying "A" ,meaning "B" and expecting the receiver to understand the message you want to convey or 2 say"B" mean "B" in all clarity We have no translation or use for the proverb 'truth hurts' we use the Dutch version of 'truth can be tough' en dat is een harde waarheid.
The anglo-dutch translation guide is very true. I found out the hard way when i worked for an international company. I found the same list and included it in briefings for new co-workers so they wouldn't fall in the same trap.
As a Dutch person living in the Netherlands I can say that not everyone has the directess as in the video. I am from the North and we are a bit more preserved then lets say in the west as in Amsterdam etc. Also in Limburg, the absolute south of the Netherlands people are not that direct. The Netherlands are always mistaken for Holland, and here is again a (bad) example of this. Hmmm, pretty direct this one.
the creativity still has a place: dutch are easy to say "not decided" or we leave an option open for decision, or communicate both yes and no ( direct and clearly not making a choice). because its ok.
Some times it can be a hard swollow, but in a few seconds you know ware you stand (best leurn is by mistake. So if some one pont out you're mistake.....)
I've noticed as a dutch person born and raised here that most bosses aren't really honest. And our goverment isn't really honest as well. They are mostly honest when it suits them.
Beautiful thing about cultural difference is that each one feels fine in their own culture. Shocks happen only if you leave your own comfortable culture zone. Which culture is more valuable, is therefor complete nonsense.
Yes the Uk and the Spanish and Portuguese were also big trading countries. The difference is the Netherlands back then had only 7Mljn inhabitants or so. So being efficiënt was more key for the Dutch to keep up with the fast changing world of trade.
Negative feedback does not mean its brought in a negative way. Actually there rules on how to give negative feedback without destroying someone's spirit. Negative feedback is meant to give you insight on what you can improve to preform better. Creativity i can tell my manager: he what about this idea and you get a yes work it out and present it, or No (If i think its still better i work it out and present it again.) I think directness can speed up creativity because you don't need to tell the hole idea, just the outlines. takes 1 min to ask, instead of rambling on for 30 min and then come to the point.
i don't know why that guy says directness reduces creativity, but in my experience there is more than enough room for creativity. sure, the manager makes the decisions but any good manager gets input from everybody before the decision is made... thanks to the directness this doesn't need to take very long.
I think as an example: Direct: No, I dont want to go on a date, I don't like you. Rude: Why the hell would I go out with you? I don't like you cuz your dumb. Direct (Why dont you like me?): I don't feel I can have good conversations with you about my interests. Rude: I don't think we can talk cuz I doubt you'd be able to follow
I never liked to go to a "high context" country for business, because I knew I would need a week to get a straight answer to a proposal that would take 1 or 2 days in a "low context" country. As children we would be educated by our parents to be direct and keep it short. If you did something that you shouldn't do and did not confess straight away your parent would tell you "Niet om de hete brei draaien!", meaning "don't pace around the hot porridge!".
As a Dutchy I’m willing to say we can do with some more nuanced reactions at times. But in working relations directness and honesty works magic. Atleast you know where you stand with us…
It's not meant to be rude. It's more like: you ask me a question/opinion, you get an answer containing requested info. It's the same the other way around. I don't need word salad. This all doesn't mean we can't have a nice interaction.
Imagine a Dutchie and an English person both using the word "interesting" in reaction to something. 😂 I'd rather have the Dutchies version, they find it really interesting. Greetings from the Netherlands
I love being able to throw "interesting" in there when I'm so bored and I don't even know what you said. Wonderful deflection. Yes sometimes this Dutchie picks up helpful tools from the rest of the world :D
For many years the Dutch were the only nation allowed to trade with Japan, to find them on opposite sides of "directness" is weird. The infrastructure of both countries is very similar, lots of signs and well maintained roads/paint/potholes.
I love your perspective as a Brit. As a Dutchie I've often thought I couldn't hack it in Britain because of the indirectness, the class system would be very hard for me too due to everything being so "flat" here. Although saying something nice on the outside the Brits can have a very condescending attitude behind it, like you said passive aggressive, I definitely think it doesn't help interactions and relationships. That the guy said it helped tremendously with his mental health was logical but still kinda shocking. As a therapist I would say it's not necessary to let everything hang out all the time because you can keep things to yourself, but speaking the truth helps to arrange your thoughts and feelings, and therefore it helps being honest with yourself!!! And that might be the hardest thing in life. So any help we can get with that is welcome I suppose.
Being Dutch myself I can say it makes conversations a lot shorter, to the point and no BS. It might seem rude to others, but why beat around the bush and try to avoid everything possible if you can be upfront and to the point while being honest. If someone doesn't like it, guess what, tough luck. I'm not going to sugar coat it or save your feelings just because you are a nice person. If the honest truth is needed, I will tell you. If I have a thought, out with it. Rude or not, at least I don't mess about and cause unwanted problems further down the line or have miscommunications. haha. And russia being on the left side of the scale is utter BS, they are very well known for lying, deceiving and beating around the bush. They will never be straight forward with reality meaning they don't even belong to be in the area of even teh right scale end. They are so far on the right that the scale would be miles long. Indeed, less praises. You did something everyone does in their lives? Did something you think you need to be praised for? You want a cookie and head pat for that? Want me to hold your hand and take you to the kindergarten? Grow up. The basic ides you could compare to men vs women in a mall. - Men: Buy what you need and go straight home. - Women: Take all day being distracted with every single store and often the same store multiple times, buy a lot of sh** they don't need, overspend and still find time to blame someone else while never reaching the actual store for the actual product they came for. Understand now? The Dutch are like the men in the story, while Brits and Americans for example (along side so many others) are like women in that mall example. Dutch in the 1600's: You want to attack out ships? Fine, we will fight sink yours instead and make sure you regret it! Brits in the 1600's: Oh so sorry my dear boy, I didn't mean to blow a hole in your ship. I think you can understand how direct the Dutch are based on my reply.
Im dutch. So i say it in a childs way. Direct and no reason to lie. every clock around the world has 24 hours those are your 24 ours No body likes stress But lying can give you stress Lying takes time and energy There is so much time And time of life by being just directly In life When your not being honest Ore say the way it is You lose pressure time in life So Respect you get by truth If you say nothing you loose Saying the truth or just hello To everyone is just how a country can flow the best
No not less creativity, the directness also helps with the question: this doesnt work, so who has another idea? You get another idea. Just as blunt. It is not bad to acknowledge somthing doesnt work, but get to the question what might work..
I've always thought of myself as not fitting into this stereotype of Dutch directness, as I do appreciate the way the British, for example, conduct themselves. However, my British mates do tell me I am incredibly direct. It's interesting to see that even someone not considered particularly direct within the Netherlands, is still considered direct by people elsewhere.
I am Dutch and I live in Amsterdam. Maybe we are more direct than other people, but we are not always direct. When you don't know someone, you are not always telling what you think of them. If someone asks you how are you, you will answer fine as a way to be polite. But if someone asks you a serious question, you will answer what you think
The difference between british and utch 17th century terading is, that the ducth were colonizing and trading for their collectively good, whereas the bristish did that mainly for their royal family..
No!The real question is,why are the others not so direct?What is the meaning of not direct talking?It will only make the talk a lot longer.Or not to get understand by the other.So be clair in your questions and conclusions.
It might be more accurate to call it “Hollandish directness,” as in the eastern Netherland of Overijssel, we tend to either remain silent or, if necessary, express our thoughts through well-crafted idiomatic phrases. For instance, Low Saxon/Low German, which is a language between English, Dutch, and High German and was spoken by my grandmother near the German border, has some great idioms that convey meaning without being blunt. In Holland, someone might tell a girl she needs a bigger bra, while in Overijssel, they would say that “the piglets are looking over the fence.” So I think “Dutch directness” keeps waning once you keep walking steadily towards the German border. Because along this line it seems that figurative speech becomes more prominent by earning its place by means of people needing to cope with life by addressing things, without bluntly doing so.
What's good to know that also in The Netherlands there are regional differences. We, from the east, are traditionally known for being less direct. The common cliche is that someone from eastern region Twente could say 'joa, joa' (yes, yes) which surprisingly means 'no''. Joa joa translates to 'yes I hear you' or 'yes, that's interesting' or even 'from your point of view you are probably right'. But that doesn't mean the listner is agreeable. Not so direct right? And it is very close to the common meme of 'What British say, and what British really mean'. This might be due to the Saxon backgrond, which we share with the British. (The west, north-west and south of the country are Franconian or Frisian in nature). Or to the fact that serfdom was much longer a thing in the rural east than in many other parts of the country. Ofcourse it depends a lot of the age, the personality or personal background of the person you are talking to. And we eastern Dutchies might even be direct compared to other cultures. But if Dutch directness comes to mind, you usually wouldn't think of a person from my part of The Netherlands.
People from some parts of the UK can be pretty direct too. People from some parts of Scotland and Yorkshire, for example. But maybe that's my problem for being a namby-pamby overpolite southerner who starts off requests with 'I wonder if I might...' or 'could I possibly ask you if...' (once getting a response in New York - another place known for directness - ordering in a sandwich bar with "Are you some kind of nut?")
I'm Dutch. And I'm a 'namby pamby'😂 I'm uncharacteristically polite and apologetic. Lived in the UK for 6 yrs and I felt so at home! Moving back home was a bigger shock than I thought it would be. It took me a while, to adjust to the Dutch way of things and felt quite out of sorts. I still miss the UK. But the Netherlands is my home. Luckily, the Dutch appreciate individuality. People do appreciate my unique way of doing things but they will also let me know when I'm doing too much😂 Also, the Dutch language requires more words to give meaning to what you say than English. So make it snappy. Time's a wasting😂
@@TheSuperappelflapit's also 'big city syndrome' I have found that to be the case in the big metropolitan cities I been to. They all have their unique culture but be it Paris, London, New York, LA, Berlin...in the big cities, they are all very direct and curt- in my experience, that is. A Parisian will have no problem with interrupting your attempt at ordering in French and switch to English because it takes too long. Thing is; a Parisian will audibly sigh and look at you with pure disdain. "Yeees. Yooo ken say eet in Anglais. Wat yoo want. " 😂
@@GullibleTarget that's not being direct, it's big city rudeness. No point being polite if all the people you see in a day, you will never see again anyway.
@@TheSuperappelflap that's not my lived experience, so I disagree. Mind you; I only speak about what I have experienced, living in metropoli in different countries. Your experience might be different. My example of Paris indicates that it has the directness and bluntness of any metropolitan hub, with the Parisian rudeness as a unique addition. For instance; In London, where I also lived; people are 'metropolitan' direct and curt but...more polite in their delivery(but they don't mince words). In conclusion: curt and directness are typical for most metropolitan hubs but each has its own unique 'flavour'.be it rudeness, politeness, coldness, etc. I do find that New Yorkers(especially in the burroughs)are very much like Rotterdammers. Only louder😅. Rotterdammers really don't like 'namby pamby'.
Well it depends, the south provinces like Limburg, Noord Brabant and Zeeland the ppl are more underhanded and say yes in your face but no behind your back. They can be backstabbers first class, sawing legs under your chair away. They never come to the point and running around in circles. I advise to handle them with caution until you know how the person is. Of course this can be different from person to person. But the directness is mainly in the big cities.
@@pinglord7279 Well i am honest. Its not rude, its just truth. Its unfortunate my experience. But as i sad it can be different from person to person. Some are ok.
How do you know this when you are from the north? This is your experience, but it's not the truth. There are backstabbers everywhere. I'm from Noord-Brabant, Eindhoven and people here are just as direct. My bf has friends from all over the country (Amsterdam, Den Haag, Groningen etc). I had a boyfriend from Zeeland and a friend from Limburg. They are all direct. Yes, the communication styles are a bit different, but not this big.
The Dutch had a small population compared to their rivals the UK. In order to compete everything needed to be very efficient like building merchant and war ships.
As a dutchie, I used to like the directness of our inhabitants. But nowadays a lot of people are just brutal and rude. They undermine authority and arguing about the rules and someone's decisions and behaviour. Thats my experience from the last years and as a lifeguard and safety and security manager
About the feedback bit, what's the use of getting negative feedback from the extreme right side of the scale? You would want feedback to answer the question: did I do good and if it was not what should I try to improve. Why waste time with the so called politeness. It's like trying your best to win a competitive game and only getting a participation ribbon. With the compliment of at least you got something. But what you really needed is the frustration of failing and preferably advice for the future to git gud.
Look at it this way, if someone think you are s.o.*** Would you prefer them to tell you straight in your face, or do you prefer to find out that people have been talking negatively behinf your back ?? I prefer Dutch directness. Partially because I am Dutch, but I prefer clear communication. No = No, I come back to it later, indeed means not having the time right now but also actually getting back to it later. It is simple, clear. You know exactly what a person means, and they act according to what they say.
When you are used to a culture where direct negative feedback is common, you also develop quite thick skin for it. It's effective to get direct negative feedback in my opinion. If I do something wrong I want to know what and how so I can immediately make amends or learn from my mistakes. The same goes for relationships etc. If someone doesn't like me, I want to know so nobody wastes any time on doing something that makes things worse. It's pretty much like: Action>feedback>adjust>action. The trick is in the nuance of how you say it. "Could you styop doing that, it annoys me when you do that" is considered polite. "Stop it, you're annoying", is not so polite. I guess you could also say that we find direct facts less offensive than false platitudes, pretending or lying. I think it only reduces creativity if you don't argue back. Dutch people love debating and discussing so if you spar with Dutch people, it can often lead to a lot of creativity. Dutch directness does NOT equal closed minded mentality nor limited room for discussion
if i am walking around with my fly open i want someone to just tell me immediately. don't play guessing games with me first and absolutely don't keep your mouth shut in order to not embarras me.
when you give negative feedback doesnt mean you are negative on the person, but what you think should be different. it isnt personal. most of the times at least 😉. An other thing...... when you say no it doesnt have to be no all the time... if you have good agruements, people can change it to a yes..... so no, isnt always the end of a discussion, but you have to have the guts to go in a discussion... I think in america there is more sence of hierarchy and people are maybe afraid of being judge when you start a discussion with the boss when in the netherlands it isnt a problem (mostly)..... the boss is also just human....
A one is a one-A two is a two. And if you think it's two point two, why? Otherwise, it's just two. And continue with what's important. That's not difficult, right?
to me..dutch directness is about RESPECT!! hurt me with the truth..but never comfort me with a lie!!! it is kinda like that!! i rather know where i am at with a person..just tell me what it is..then we can work with it finding a solution..or not and end whatever is going on by going in differnt directions!!
I do agree rudeness is often in the eye of the beholder. If you are easily offended; 1. Don't ask questions you do not want the answer to 2. Don't bring up topics you're sensitive about. You will get my straight and honest answer/opinion. To me the line of rudeness lays in the region of unsolicited opinions, especially to strangers. I will give friends unsolicited negative feedback, if I think it is necessary. However I would almost never do this to a stranger, only if they are a nuisance.
Funny, i somehow didn't encounter direct dutch people, if fact it was quite opposite for me. The only guy i met in Netherlands who was really direct and honest was some Austrian painter (just to be clear, it isn't a joke). His directness really simplified our conversation in a good way. I don't claim Dutch aren't direct, it's just happened I didn't observe it Once I had to stay in a hostel for some time and two story bad was too low so I hit my head very often and there were some sharp parts so my skin came off. There was nobody on top bed and that bad could be easily disassembled (you can just pick up top bed without unscrewing anything.). I assumed it isnt allowed but I was so irritated that I decided to do it anyway but I was ready to put it back if I will be told and face consequences if there are. I put top back in the corner of the room for the tie being. Naturally, it wasn't allowed and I was asked to put the bed back. However while I was assembling it this lady was smiling at me, asking to assemble it and her reason was that is is for my safety. If we assume she was direct, then were she threatening me ? Hahah. Sure, the lady worked in service industry so thats why she wasn't direct but I just told example of very “weird“ indirectness. She could just say it isn't allowed by the rules. Other Dutch people were also extra polite. I don't know, maybe it's some enkhuizen abnormality (I was staying only in enkhuizen and hoorn)
Ty-pi-sch Hollands 🇳🇱 Netherlands is a place where no one pretends. For example, if you are in a meeting and you make a comment that is not very smart, it will simply be said to you. What Dutch people see as 'OPEN AND HONEST' 🥰 is often experienced by foreigners as rude. 🤷🏼♀️ Thanks 👍🏼💙
I don't see how directness has a negative impact on creativity. Dutch history show that not to be true. Our so called 'Golden age' is both a period in which trade was booming (trade is used as an argument for directness) , but it was also the period of great art and science. Think of Huigens and Rembrandt as an example.
So i am Dutch, we have a saying in the Netherlands , There is nothing wrong with telling the truth. , That sums it all up. Tell the truth , people are best helped when they here it,dont sugarcote even if it isnt what they want to here, because you can only get better if you know whats wrong. Its very simple, and for shure not ment to be rude. The Dutch are just always telling you the truth if you like it or not. I dont think it kills creativiti because you can always says, youre wrong. And say what you think is better. No problem for a Dutch person. Not even to his CEO. If youre idea is better you can count on youre CEO take it as a win. I think if people are scared to go against the boss because they think they loose their job that is worse for creativity then directness. And yes he is right, we are coconuts
An important historical reason is probably that everyone had to work together from ancient times on to protect ourselves against the water. For example in our country we have something called Waterschappen (water boards) which are local polder administrations that originated in the 13th century, In a way they are the very first democratic system in the world. We all needed each otherwise we would undoubtedly evolve into mermaids. (We still have Water board elections every four years).
The way I see it, the directness stems from respect for each other's time and authenticity.
Ecxactly
that's exactly what is it :)
I'm Dutch, and its kind of like..
''Why would i waste both your and my own time in spinning some sort of weird confusing lie or roundabout way in saying something''
''No dear we'd rather be straight to the point and help you with it.''
I (a Dutch man - Frisian actually, even worse!) have a lot of American colleagues and have done a lot of business in America. Hell, even my wife is American! Every time I visit a US company I get the tour, get introduced to everyone ("our friend from Holland") and then about 10-15 minutes is spent by small talk in the meeting room to make you feel at home. I usually shorten that by 9-14 minutes by making compliments to the host about his company (add a comment about a specific detail), the friendly and welcoming reception, the excellent coffee, stating that I feel totally at home and it's a good start of a productive meeting. Thank you very much for making me feel so welcome and at home. That basically shortents the "courting" and finishes the small talk. "Now, I have prepared a few agenda points and what I would like to achieve with this meeting is this: ". 😁
My colleagues, once they are used to it, appreciate the directness. The others I send the very instructive pocket: "Dealing with the Dutch"
Heey heb een vraag maar weet niet of het klopt: ik dacht altijd dat ze zo doen omdat je zonder reden ontslagen kan worden?
@@alucardio1732 Je merkt wel dat men erg voorzichtig is als de baas spreekt, en daar niet zo snel een kritische vraag over stelt. Je wilt niet negatief in de belangstelling komen. Wij Nederlanders doen misschien wel eens te vaak ons mond open ;)
@@alucardio1732Ja, daarom zijn ze altijd zo nep, en kan niemand in de wereld ze uitstaan.
Dutchie here. Look, I'm never "happy" to receive the negative feedback but boy is it helpful, and a huge timesaver, it also contributes to your personal growth. You can always decide you don't agree with the feedback, of course. Some people in the Netherlands are also just jerks so you don't have to take everything to hart.
I'm always mindful of other people's feelings but there's just so much I can do. We're not out to hurt people in general lol.
I sometimes come across as too blunt for Dutch standards because I'm comfortable discussing darker topics and people often try to keep things light.
i am not mindfull of people's feelings at all, in that way i am opposite of you, though i am dutch as wel, if i think people are stuppid, i'll call them stuppid.
if i think they are idiots, i call them idiots.
if i think you smell good, i say you smell good.
if i think you need a shower, i'll say you might need a shower, you stink, and yes, i want people to do the same with me, can't change if no one says anything.
sometimes people don't notis it, and if you keep quite, than it is more harmfull, than kindness.
for that reason, i don't think about someone feelings, being kind, isn't always being nice.
The lack of hierarchy is good for being creative. Interchanging ideas from every level gets the best results in a relative short time where in other cultures there could be some hesitation to bring ideas forward to a higher level in the organisation. The Dutch have clearly been very creative and innovative throughout the centuries as you experienced in earlier videos.
there is hierarchie, but not out on the surface as other countries. Milennnials think there isn't any, but they will face places where it is expected, while they have no clue, because they think it is unnescesary..
yeah i didn't really get that one. Maybe it was just a particular situation regarding this guys job
I think his last point was interesting: you can be direct and still polite. Because we do also have people who use directness as an excuse to be very blunt or rude. I have a problem with saying things (even compliments) if they aren't true, but you can say "that doesn't flatter you" instead of "that makes you fat". I like the direct style of communications because you can trust what people say, with people from indirect communications countries you always have to guess what they actually mean and it creates a lot of uncertainty.
Example.Hey Henk, what a nice suit you are wearing, it's just a shame it doesn't suit you.
The british and dutch do have something in common: sarcasm and irony. We love that in the british communication and we get your humor...😅
most offended people I have come across are British women over 50
As a Dutchman I can only agree.
@@remcoasselbergs3298 I can only agree with the other Dutch comment on humor. I love British humour as opposed to American. The Office from the UK is fantastic (or monty python, Fawlty towers etc.) but US versions of the same concept just aren't funny to me. Or just too.. I don't wanna say simple but that's probably what it is for me.. an implied joke or self deprecating one just works better for me
It is not directness
It being clear, crystal clear, no loose ends
To be direct or crystral clear does not mean it is correct, but it is a good way for foreneirs like me to have a good laught to hear crystal clear your totaly lack of knowledge in a issue.
One thing about feedback, we have no problem with giving negative feedback but also no problem in receiving it. If I ask for feedback even if it is negative and I get a "read between the lines" comment it drives me crazy to no end.
Well… not having a problem receiving negative feedback usually isn’t up to the one receiving but to the one giving …😉😜
Not sure if most Dutch have no problem receiving 😇
(Yup, Dutchie)
I'm Dutch and I prefer people being direct to me. Ok some times it might hurt but I'm autistic and I'm not good in reading between the lines. So being direct to me to make clear what you mean, makes a whole lot of difference to me.
Add to that, you can be direct without being rude simply by explaining why you said something for one.
11:02 no sir, up to the early 1900's Netherlands was the only country to trade with Japan. Brits tried, spanish and Portugese tried, but all three wanted to get their churches in aswell, the Dutch just came to trade..
When i visited Manchester a little while ago, i went for dinner in a restaurant. The staff asked me multiple times if i wanted to have some meat i don't like. As a Dutch citizen, i told the waiter; no, i don't like that specific meat. My reaction caused a little shock. I litterly said: i don't want it. I don't like it. For me, this is a normal thing to do in NL. I noticed British people said: thank you for asking but i'm full. I didn't meant to be rude. I just wanted to let the waiter know how i felt and why i don't like it.
It took my co-workers some time to get used to my "directness" as well as me learning how not to be so direct but to express it in a more "American" manner. Over time they started to appreciate the way I talked because I explained to them that I do not possess the fine art of reading between the lines nor talking between the lines and that I didn't mean any disrespect.
In Shrek, you have a perfect but simple explanation when Donkey states: "I like what you've done with the place on such a modest budget" whereas I might have stated: "Pity you didn't have more money but it looks ok though" or something to that effect.
Get out of my swamp!
The Irish guy is wrong in one thing , being less creative , its the contrary !
If I can pitch any idea to my boss , however stupid that idea might be , but without the fear of repercussion , it makes people more creative ? You do have to accept though that that idea may be called stupid ? At least you tried ?
Agreed
13:55 ther is a Dutch saying.. Iedereen mag er zijn plas op doen.. Everybody gets to pee on it..
As a Dutchman, I am not aware of being direct. But when I'm abroad, I sometimes see a startled reaction. Then it's usually not easy to find out what I said wrong. This while I am not aware that I have said something wrong. It strikes me in foreign films or interviews that I think, well, you can express yourself more clearly, because that's how you get confused when I watch TV. But we are different, I think when I hear you like that.
I believe that direct negative feedback is the best, how else can you understand direct that you need to change something.
As a Dutch person. I honestly like a good discussion. Its a quick and easy way to understand each other. Like i have many discussions with my boss of the technical department. Simply on how to fix something, sometimes its my way, sometimes his, and alot of times a bit of both.
Directness is the fastest way to move forward, that’s how you develop in a direction that makes sense
Being honest and straight to the point is best. It gets rid of mistakes and useless chatter.
Directness is being honest and efficient. I personally don't like the word negative, I see it as less positive.
What is politeness if it just empty.
5:29 if negative feedback isn't meant to hurt, just to be honest/direct, that's fine.
I think the biggest reason we are this direct is efficiency I think. It did get mentioned but I feel it plays a bigger part. Efficiency is found in everything we dutchies do. We say what needs to be said, we have a good infrastructure and we always need to plan things because we never have any time, there's always something that needs to be done. Like just eating a simple sandwich for lunch and eating dinner at 6pm. It saves us time thinking and talking so we can actually do. Atleast thats my theory.
7:13 Fun fact: If a Dutchie really wanted to meet up with you besides the day that they can not. They will try to make find another day at that moment.
If they dont most of the time they dont want to meet up anyway.
Dutch people expect creativity before communication starts. They do generally not like creativity during communication, besides in the arts (theatre, poems, literature).
Even inside the Netherlands, I'm considered as one of the most direct persons. I'm highly intelligent, and I can't stand chit-chat talk. Tell me what you want, come to the point. Don't lie because i will know. But I'm very good at having deep conversations . Arguments are fine, maybe I can learn something. People see me as harsh but also as extremely honest. I will never avoid difficult stuff, like illness or even death. I find it very comfortable when people come to me and are willing to talk about their darkest struggles in life. I will listen, and if you want me to, I will help you. On the other hand, don't stick a knife into my back because you will regret it. It can take years, but revenge is mine. I don't judge very easily. I will listen to both parties in a fight, and most importantly, everyone is equal. I have worked with some of the biggest superstars on earth. I don't dven know what jealousy feels like. Do I offend people? Absolutely. Most of the time it is nothing personal. Sometimes it is personal.
"I don't want to" is a perfectly good excuse.
-- Me
I'm probably too honest. lol
Im dutch, had it happen once where i had to go to belgium for work. To help a company out with their strategy. So whilst their i told them what worked and what they needed ro change to make it work better. All the belgiums agreed and thanked me for the tips.
1 day later i get a mail saying that did not see me as plasesnt and way to dominant.
So i got kinda mad at the belgium colueges the next time i spoke them. And told them if they dont agree or have a different opinion they just need to tell me then amd there. And then we can discuss it and find the best middle ground.
Wich they also didnt take in kindly 😂
Half dutch half spanish, living in NL for 8 years never experienced dutch directness and only recently found out about this stereotype, I don't know if im used to it or what but i think spanish people are more direct, dutch people are simply more stern. Durch people believe it or not avoid confrontation, infer rather than directly address some things, walk around subjects etc etc. But i do see how they're more straightforward than the typical american joe
As a Dutchman with ADHD I'm extremely direct, but also polite and respectful
I'm Dutch with ADHD and I can take a veery long time to get to the point. I get sidetracked or suddenly very conscious about blurting something out. But when I get my talk on....dont interrupt my 'flow'; because when I eventually get to the point; it covers all points😂and usually from an angle that most people can't see. I might seem distracted but I'm actually taking in EVERYTHING with hyperfocus😂
Omg...I did it again, didn't I ? Blahblahblah 😊
@@GullibleTargetStory of my life as well haha
I'm a Latin woman, married with a Dutch man..... OMG...... my Dutch husband and kids, say straight that my dress is ugly if I ask if they like my new dress, and they don't like my dress. Without inventing a polite way of lying about it. The truth or honesty will help me make a good choice. In the university if I asked, do you like my new clothes? They answered no, because your *ss is too big in that skirt. 😂
Now I love their directness. ❤
I'm sorry nobody is allowed to say that your *ss is too big in anything. There are boundaries lol My mom said that to me when I finished walking off the runway. My friends were very kind to me and all lied that my *ss wasn't too fat.....and then I saw the video lol
yes, get use to it.
As a Dutch person, I'm happy to receive direct negative feedback. If it is justified I will happily acknowledge it. The main point here is to always take feedback as justfied. You shouldn't argue it, but think about what the implications are for your behavior going forward.
I love my Dutch directness. No bullshit,straight to the point amd how it is. Thats what gets stuff done.
It's a small part of why i love my country. Especially the no hierarchy part. What part of Brittain are you from?
I don't think it blocks creativity, if a junior in a team has a great idea, he will share it (directness).
The question, Why Are The Dutch So Direct? to me (as a Dutch man) is rather confusing. When the Anglo-Dutch translation guide was presented at 8:48 in the video, I thought it was a joke. I've seen it played out in many satire or sketch show when an actor says something and a funny 'slang' translation is simultaneously presented in print on the screen. Apparently the Dutch are being judged for saying what they mean and mean what they say. In the question Why Are The Dutch So Direct? it appears the Dutch are being generalized as a people with no filter on speech. Even though there are many outspoken and blunt people in the Netherlands there are as much with a refined and nuanced way of speaking. We're not all bulls in a china store . Most of the time, there is no intention to being offensive, just to be clear.
I'm wondering; what should be considered as rude,
1 saying "A" ,meaning "B" and expecting the receiver to understand the message you want to convey
or
2 say"B" mean "B" in all clarity
We have no translation or use for the proverb 'truth hurts' we use the Dutch version of 'truth can be tough' en dat is een harde waarheid.
The anglo-dutch translation guide is very true. I found out the hard way when i worked for an international company. I found the same list and included it in briefings for new co-workers so they wouldn't fall in the same trap.
As a Dutch person living in the Netherlands I can say that not everyone has the directess as in the video. I am from the North and we are a bit more preserved then lets say in the west as in Amsterdam etc. Also in Limburg, the absolute south of the Netherlands people are not that direct.
The Netherlands are always mistaken for Holland, and here is again a (bad) example of this. Hmmm, pretty direct this one.
the creativity still has a place: dutch are easy to say "not decided" or we leave an option open for decision, or communicate both yes and no ( direct and clearly not making a choice). because its ok.
Some times it can be a hard swollow, but in a few seconds you know ware you stand (best leurn is by mistake. So if some one pont out you're mistake.....)
I've noticed as a dutch person born and raised here that most bosses aren't really honest. And our goverment isn't really honest as well. They are mostly honest when it suits them.
I think that is a universal experience
Beautiful thing about cultural difference is that each one feels fine in their own culture. Shocks happen only if you leave your own comfortable culture zone. Which culture is more valuable, is therefor complete nonsense.
no coconuts, but lions 🦁🇳🇱
It is not negative for creativity. In fact it leaves more time to create. Look at dutch painters, architects, engineers, etc.
Yes the Uk and the Spanish and Portuguese were also big trading countries. The difference is the Netherlands back then had only 7Mljn inhabitants or so. So being efficiënt was more key for the Dutch to keep up with the fast changing world of trade.
1:17 Using Rutte as an example for directness doesn’t feel right to me. I think he isn’t as direct as most Dutch people are.
Negative feedback does not mean its brought in a negative way. Actually there rules on how to give negative feedback without destroying someone's spirit.
Negative feedback is meant to give you insight on what you can improve to preform better.
Creativity i can tell my manager: he what about this idea and you get a yes work it out and present it, or No (If i think its still better i work it out and present it again.)
I think directness can speed up creativity because you don't need to tell the hole idea, just the outlines. takes 1 min to ask, instead of rambling on for 30 min and then come to the point.
i don't know why that guy says directness reduces creativity, but in my experience there is more than enough room for creativity. sure, the manager makes the decisions but any good manager gets input from everybody before the decision is made... thanks to the directness this doesn't need to take very long.
I think as an example: Direct: No, I dont want to go on a date, I don't like you.
Rude: Why the hell would I go out with you? I don't like you cuz your dumb.
Direct (Why dont you like me?): I don't feel I can have good conversations with you about my interests.
Rude: I don't think we can talk cuz I doubt you'd be able to follow
I never liked to go to a "high context" country for business, because I knew I would need a week to get a straight answer to a proposal that would take 1 or 2 days in a "low context" country. As children we would be educated by our parents to be direct and keep it short. If you did something that you shouldn't do and did not confess straight away your parent would tell you "Niet om de hete brei draaien!", meaning "don't pace around the hot porridge!".
It depends… like im from the south of the Netherlands and we tend to be less direct than the northern part of NL.
As a Dutchy I’m willing to say we can do with some more nuanced reactions at times. But in working relations directness and honesty works magic. Atleast you know where you stand with us…
It's not meant to be rude. It's more like: you ask me a question/opinion, you get an answer containing requested info. It's the same the other way around. I don't need word salad. This all doesn't mean we can't have a nice interaction.
difference between directness and rudeness is intent
Maybe to put in perspective if i would make a vid it would be called why don't other countries say what they mean? arent they the strange ones?
Imagine a Dutchie and an English person both using the word "interesting" in reaction to something. 😂 I'd rather have the Dutchies version, they find it really interesting.
Greetings from the Netherlands
Doet me denken aan Hans Teeuwen. Ja, boeiend. Interessant.
I love being able to throw "interesting" in there when I'm so bored and I don't even know what you said. Wonderful deflection. Yes sometimes this Dutchie picks up helpful tools from the rest of the world :D
Maybe it's time to watch 'the bike instructor's guide to cycling in amsterdam' before you visit... 🤗
For many years the Dutch were the only nation allowed to trade with Japan, to find them on opposite sides of "directness" is weird. The infrastructure of both countries is very similar, lots of signs and well maintained roads/paint/potholes.
I love your perspective as a Brit. As a Dutchie I've often thought I couldn't hack it in Britain because of the indirectness, the class system would be very hard for me too due to everything being so "flat" here. Although saying something nice on the outside the Brits can have a very condescending attitude behind it, like you said passive aggressive, I definitely think it doesn't help interactions and relationships. That the guy said it helped tremendously with his mental health was logical but still kinda shocking. As a therapist I would say it's not necessary to let everything hang out all the time because you can keep things to yourself, but speaking the truth helps to arrange your thoughts and feelings, and therefore it helps being honest with yourself!!! And that might be the hardest thing in life. So any help we can get with that is welcome I suppose.
Being Dutch myself I can say it makes conversations a lot shorter, to the point and no BS.
It might seem rude to others, but why beat around the bush and try to avoid everything possible if you can be upfront and to the point while being honest. If someone doesn't like it, guess what, tough luck. I'm not going to sugar coat it or save your feelings just because you are a nice person. If the honest truth is needed, I will tell you. If I have a thought, out with it. Rude or not, at least I don't mess about and cause unwanted problems further down the line or have miscommunications. haha.
And russia being on the left side of the scale is utter BS, they are very well known for lying, deceiving and beating around the bush. They will never be straight forward with reality meaning they don't even belong to be in the area of even teh right scale end. They are so far on the right that the scale would be miles long.
Indeed, less praises. You did something everyone does in their lives? Did something you think you need to be praised for? You want a cookie and head pat for that? Want me to hold your hand and take you to the kindergarten? Grow up.
The basic ides you could compare to men vs women in a mall.
- Men: Buy what you need and go straight home.
- Women: Take all day being distracted with every single store and often the same store multiple times, buy a lot of sh** they don't need, overspend and still find time to blame someone else while never reaching the actual store for the actual product they came for.
Understand now? The Dutch are like the men in the story, while Brits and Americans for example (along side so many others) are like women in that mall example.
Dutch in the 1600's: You want to attack out ships? Fine, we will fight sink yours instead and make sure you regret it!
Brits in the 1600's: Oh so sorry my dear boy, I didn't mean to blow a hole in your ship.
I think you can understand how direct the Dutch are based on my reply.
You know wat it is ? Its very efficient ,thats our whai of live , its clear and know direct what to do!
I’m from the east of the Netherlands and the Anglo-Dutch translation guide somehow applies to us too. I guess being less direct is just a Saxon thing
Im dutch.
So i say it in a childs way.
Direct and no reason to lie.
every clock around the world has 24 hours
those are your 24 ours
No body likes stress
But lying can give you stress
Lying takes time and energy
There is so much time
And time of life by being just directly In life
When your not being honest
Ore say the way it is
You lose pressure time in life
So Respect you get by truth
If you say nothing you loose
Saying the truth or just hello
To everyone is just how a country can flow the best
I love our directness.. i am very direct myself. Its just what you see is what you get.. why make things longer than needed?
Direct negative feedback is what I expect from the people around me, otherwise they'll leave me with questions.
I'm dutch and I approve. I am really direct myself but I try to bring it in a friendly way.
its eficient comunication
No not less creativity, the directness also helps with the question: this doesnt work, so who has another idea? You get another idea. Just as blunt. It is not bad to acknowledge somthing doesnt work, but get to the question what might work..
I've always thought of myself as not fitting into this stereotype of Dutch directness, as I do appreciate the way the British, for example, conduct themselves. However, my British mates do tell me I am incredibly direct. It's interesting to see that even someone not considered particularly direct within the Netherlands, is still considered direct by people elsewhere.
I was born here (Nederland) whe are practical direckt is a englis word ! whe say direkt as whe want samting immediatly
We do not want to waste time on feelings. It's how it is.
I am Dutch and I live in Amsterdam. Maybe we are more direct than other people, but we are not always direct. When you don't know someone, you are not always telling what you think of them. If someone asks you how are you, you will answer fine as a way to be polite. But if someone asks you a serious question, you will answer what you think
The difference between british and utch 17th century terading is, that the ducth were colonizing and trading for their collectively good, whereas the bristish did that mainly for their royal family..
No!The real question is,why are the others not so direct?What is the meaning of not direct talking?It will only make the talk a lot longer.Or not to get understand by the other.So be clair in your questions and conclusions.
It might be more accurate to call it “Hollandish directness,” as in the eastern Netherland of Overijssel, we tend to either remain silent or, if necessary, express our thoughts through well-crafted idiomatic phrases. For instance, Low Saxon/Low German, which is a language between English, Dutch, and High German and was spoken by my grandmother near the German border, has some great idioms that convey meaning without being blunt. In Holland, someone might tell a girl she needs a bigger bra, while in Overijssel, they would say that “the piglets are looking over the fence.” So I think “Dutch directness” keeps waning once you keep walking steadily towards the German border. Because along this line it seems that figurative speech becomes more prominent by earning its place by means of people needing to cope with life by addressing things, without bluntly doing so.
What's good to know that also in The Netherlands there are regional differences. We, from the east, are traditionally known for being less direct. The common cliche is that someone from eastern region Twente could say 'joa, joa' (yes, yes) which surprisingly means 'no''. Joa joa translates to 'yes I hear you' or 'yes, that's interesting' or even 'from your point of view you are probably right'. But that doesn't mean the listner is agreeable. Not so direct right? And it is very close to the common meme of 'What British say, and what British really mean'.
This might be due to the Saxon backgrond, which we share with the British. (The west, north-west and south of the country are Franconian or Frisian in nature). Or to the fact that serfdom was much longer a thing in the rural east than in many other parts of the country.
Ofcourse it depends a lot of the age, the personality or personal background of the person you are talking to. And we eastern Dutchies might even be direct compared to other cultures. But if Dutch directness comes to mind, you usually wouldn't think of a person from my part of The Netherlands.
People from some parts of the UK can be pretty direct too. People from some parts of Scotland and Yorkshire, for example. But maybe that's my problem for being a namby-pamby overpolite southerner who starts off requests with 'I wonder if I might...' or 'could I possibly ask you if...' (once getting a response in New York - another place known for directness - ordering in a sandwich bar with "Are you some kind of nut?")
I mean New York is a former Dutch colony after all. Makes sense.
I'm Dutch. And I'm a 'namby pamby'😂 I'm uncharacteristically polite and apologetic. Lived in the UK for 6 yrs and I felt so at home! Moving back home was a bigger shock than I thought it would be. It took me a while, to adjust to the Dutch way of things and felt quite out of sorts. I still miss the UK. But the Netherlands is my home. Luckily, the Dutch appreciate individuality. People do appreciate my unique way of doing things but they will also let me know when I'm doing too much😂 Also, the Dutch language requires more words to give meaning to what you say than English. So make it snappy. Time's a wasting😂
@@TheSuperappelflapit's also 'big city syndrome' I have found that to be the case in the big metropolitan cities I been to. They all have their unique culture but be it Paris, London, New York, LA, Berlin...in the big cities, they are all very direct and curt- in my experience, that is. A Parisian will have no problem with interrupting your attempt at ordering in French and switch to English because it takes too long. Thing is; a Parisian will audibly sigh and look at you with pure disdain. "Yeees. Yooo ken say eet in Anglais. Wat yoo want. " 😂
@@GullibleTarget that's not being direct, it's big city rudeness. No point being polite if all the people you see in a day, you will never see again anyway.
@@TheSuperappelflap that's not my lived experience, so I disagree. Mind you; I only speak about what I have experienced, living in metropoli in different countries. Your experience might be different. My example of Paris indicates that it has the directness and bluntness of any metropolitan hub, with the Parisian rudeness as a unique addition. For instance; In London, where I also lived; people are 'metropolitan' direct and curt but...more polite in their delivery(but they don't mince words). In conclusion: curt and directness are typical for most metropolitan hubs but each has its own unique 'flavour'.be it rudeness, politeness, coldness, etc. I do find that New Yorkers(especially in the burroughs)are very much like Rotterdammers. Only louder😅. Rotterdammers really don't like 'namby pamby'.
Well it depends, the south provinces like Limburg, Noord Brabant and Zeeland the ppl are more underhanded and say yes in your face but no behind your back. They can be backstabbers first class, sawing legs under your chair away. They never come to the point and running around in circles. I advise to handle them with caution until you know how the person is. Of course this can be different from person to person. But the directness is mainly in the big cities.
See, now this comment is just plain rude to a large part of the Dutch demographic. No directness involved here.
(someone from Noord-Brabant)
@@pinglord7279 Well i am honest. Its not rude, its just truth. Its unfortunate my experience. But as i sad it can be different from person to person. Some are ok.
How do you know this when you are from the north? This is your experience, but it's not the truth. There are backstabbers everywhere. I'm from Noord-Brabant, Eindhoven and people here are just as direct. My bf has friends from all over the country (Amsterdam, Den Haag, Groningen etc). I had a boyfriend from Zeeland and a friend from Limburg. They are all direct. Yes, the communication styles are a bit different, but not this big.
@@zoetjez i am from Breda...... So i know what i am saying.
The Dutch had a small population compared to their rivals the UK. In order to compete everything needed to be very efficient like building merchant and war ships.
everybody is direct a kid asking for a cookie just before dinner everybody says a direct no
As a dutchie, I used to like the directness of our inhabitants. But nowadays a lot of people are just brutal and rude. They undermine authority and arguing about the rules and someone's decisions and behaviour. Thats my experience from the last years and as a lifeguard and safety and security manager
About the feedback bit, what's the use of getting negative feedback from the extreme right side of the scale?
You would want feedback to answer the question: did I do good and if it was not what should I try to improve. Why waste time with the so called politeness. It's like trying your best to win a competitive game and only getting a participation ribbon. With the compliment of at least you got something. But what you really needed is the frustration of failing and preferably advice for the future to git gud.
I’m English with lots of Dutch friends and I’d say generally they are very direct! Maybe 80% of my Dutch friends are direct!
Im very direct myself... It did bring me in trouble sometimes 😂
Look at it this way, if someone think you are s.o.*** Would you prefer them to tell you straight in your face, or do you prefer to find out that people have been talking negatively behinf your back ?? I prefer Dutch directness. Partially because I am Dutch, but I prefer clear communication. No = No, I come back to it later, indeed means not having the time right now but also actually getting back to it later. It is simple, clear. You know exactly what a person means, and they act according to what they say.
When you are used to a culture where direct negative feedback is common, you also develop quite thick skin for it. It's effective to get direct negative feedback in my opinion. If I do something wrong I want to know what and how so I can immediately make amends or learn from my mistakes. The same goes for relationships etc. If someone doesn't like me, I want to know so nobody wastes any time on doing something that makes things worse. It's pretty much like: Action>feedback>adjust>action. The trick is in the nuance of how you say it. "Could you styop doing that, it annoys me when you do that" is considered polite. "Stop it, you're annoying", is not so polite. I guess you could also say that we find direct facts less offensive than false platitudes, pretending or lying.
I think it only reduces creativity if you don't argue back. Dutch people love debating and discussing so if you spar with Dutch people, it can often lead to a lot of creativity. Dutch directness does NOT equal closed minded mentality nor limited room for discussion
if i am walking around with my fly open i want someone to just tell me immediately. don't play guessing games with me first and absolutely don't keep your mouth shut in order to not embarras me.
I'd love to see Dutch directness meeting American woke culture LOL
That would sparkle things up pretty good
Have you seen Max Verstappen recently?
when you give negative feedback doesnt mean you are negative on the person, but what you think should be different. it isnt personal. most of the times at least 😉.
An other thing...... when you say no it doesnt have to be no all the time... if you have good agruements, people can change it to a yes..... so no, isnt always the end of a discussion, but you have to have the guts to go in a discussion...
I think in america there is more sence of hierarchy and people are maybe afraid of being judge when you start a discussion with the boss when in the netherlands it isnt a problem (mostly)..... the boss is also just human....
A one is a one-A two is a two. And if you think it's two point two, why? Otherwise, it's just two. And continue with what's important. That's not difficult, right?
And yes, you are allowed to be direct to us too. Win win!
to me..dutch directness is about RESPECT!! hurt me with the truth..but never comfort me with a lie!!! it is kinda like that!! i rather know where i am at with a person..just tell me what it is..then we can work with it finding a solution..or not and end whatever is going on by going in differnt directions!!
I am Dutch and totally direct. It is how it is..
I do agree rudeness is often in the eye of the beholder. If you are easily offended;
1. Don't ask questions you do not want the answer to
2. Don't bring up topics you're sensitive about.
You will get my straight and honest answer/opinion.
To me the line of rudeness lays in the region of unsolicited opinions, especially to strangers. I will give friends unsolicited negative feedback, if I think it is necessary. However I would almost never do this to a stranger, only if they are a nuisance.
Funny, i somehow didn't encounter direct dutch people, if fact it was quite opposite for me. The only guy i met in Netherlands who was really direct and honest was some Austrian painter (just to be clear, it isn't a joke). His directness really simplified our conversation in a good way.
I don't claim Dutch aren't direct, it's just happened I didn't observe it
Once I had to stay in a hostel for some time and two story bad was too low so I hit my head very often and there were some sharp parts so my skin came off. There was nobody on top bed and that bad could be easily disassembled (you can just pick up top bed without unscrewing anything.). I assumed it isnt allowed but I was so irritated that I decided to do it anyway but I was ready to put it back if I will be told and face consequences if there are. I put top back in the corner of the room for the tie being. Naturally, it wasn't allowed and I was asked to put the bed back. However while I was assembling it this lady was smiling at me, asking to assemble it and her reason was that is is for my safety. If we assume she was direct, then were she threatening me ? Hahah.
Sure, the lady worked in service industry so thats why she wasn't direct but I just told example of very “weird“ indirectness. She could just say it isn't allowed by the rules. Other Dutch people were also extra polite. I don't know, maybe it's some enkhuizen abnormality (I was staying only in enkhuizen and hoorn)
We're so brutal direct because we simply hate confusion, period!!
Ty-pi-sch Hollands 🇳🇱 Netherlands is a place where no one pretends.
For example, if you are in a meeting and you make a comment that is not very smart, it will simply be said to you.
What Dutch people see as
'OPEN AND HONEST' 🥰
is often experienced by foreigners as rude. 🤷🏼♀️
Thanks 👍🏼💙
I don't see how directness has a negative impact on creativity. Dutch history show that not to be true. Our so called 'Golden age' is both a period in which trade was booming (trade is used as an argument for directness) , but it was also the period of great art and science. Think of Huigens and Rembrandt as an example.
get a good light to light up ur face - a dutchie
So i am Dutch, we have a saying in the Netherlands , There is nothing wrong with telling the truth. , That sums it all up. Tell the truth , people are best helped when they here it,dont sugarcote even if it isnt what they want to here, because you can only get better if you know whats wrong. Its very simple, and for shure not ment to be rude. The Dutch are just always telling you the truth if you like it or not. I dont think it kills creativiti because you can always says, youre wrong. And say what you think is better. No problem for a Dutch person. Not even to his CEO. If youre idea is better you can count on youre CEO take it as a win. I think if people are scared to go against the boss because they think they loose their job that is worse for creativity then directness. And yes he is right, we are coconuts
An important historical reason is probably that everyone had to work together from ancient times on to protect ourselves against the water. For example in our country we have something called Waterschappen (water boards) which are local polder administrations that originated in the 13th century, In a way they are the very first democratic system in the world. We all needed each otherwise we would undoubtedly evolve into mermaids. (We still have Water board elections every four years).
It's just a government branch that managed to obtain tax privilege above the national tax service..