As a whale, the reason why i wanted to spend on this game was because of how f2p friendly it was compared to a lot of other gacha/mobile games. Which was a sign that the devs wanted people to have fun, and they would be releasing content that would keep us hooked. But after seeing this. If the devs don't reverse this change, they won't be seeing a single dollar from me.
@@jeecie1234 less than $8000, so my guess is you have P1-2 majority roster and maybe a few P3? no wonder you are not happy with the P4, who spent $20k $30k
This make me laught at this point. Its not pvp, its Money vs Money purely.... i rate the game 1/5 on playstore. Hope everyone who disagree gonna do the same.
My thing is this only gonna affect PVP as far as my understanding. I’m not a big PVP anyways so really I kinda don’t care. I understand why they want to do this because they need money at the end of the day. It makes sense. I understand them releasing three hyper units. To be honest this season I felt like the two hyper units were really not that impressive for me to even put coin towards. Before people say harak is good, he’s a selfish unit therefore he will not last as long as the other supports. I would rather invest my resources in different units just my opinion.
@@matthiasbohnstedt1186 Well so basicly the game tells to 98% of the playerbase to just fuckyourself and remove 40 % of the game content off them. i can understand to have more challenge against a whale, but this is just a 0 % chance to win. So for me its bad and i prefer to leave the game cause we cant enjoy all the content as before. The game is a mix of pvp and pve and if there is no strategic involve now in pvp what's the point to keep playing at the end the day it's boring content. I like pvp and now if PVP is totally unfair i rather play a game with no pvp at all instead of a fake pvp mode where your wallet decide if you win or not.
This is the start of the end. Was fun while it lasted, I expected this patch 2 years in with hard merges but happened at 10 months. They just don't care at all, probably half of the team is working in the next scam. That's Lilith Games.
I'm already rate AFKJ with 1 star with comment against "paragon changes" in future patch in Google Play. And duplicate my opinion in game support. Do the same, please! We must not remain silent when our favorite game is killed in front of our eyes. Thank you!
They'll probably nerf the change, but it'll still be worse than it is today for F2P and low spenders. The next season will probably be the last one I play, this is getting ridiculous.
The weirdest thing is they didn't instantly reverse the buffs like they did when harak gets hotfixed in a day to not make him less op in some bosses before I wonder why these devs are playing with fire without saying anything at this point like it feels so intentional and bizarre and malicious like are they trolling us at this point?
Now that they already unleashed the hounds on the VN server with those new stats, I highly doubt they will do a 180 and remove everything or reduce it, guess pvp should be named wvw (wallet vs wallet) from now on...
The funny thing that you can put 4 random paragon 1 characters and one strong carry and you probably will win any good team without paragon because of those stat boosts/reductions
Whales are the ones getting hit the hardest As f2p i really don't care But imagine paying 4 thousand dollars to get absolutely stomped by someone paid 5 thousand dollars Not even with the best strategy just brute force brain dead power Like imagine getting stomped by Paragon 4 valen with kafra and walker and salazar team 😅😅
@@cosmiclight6633 I think the same. I used to think this way about mid spenders, but after seeing the miserable state of a p2 berial account, I changed my mind 😅
It is also to force people to paragon their hypo/cele instead of building multiple S+. Imagine a full S+ hypo/cele defense comp losing to full f2p P1 comp.
You got a point, 😊 as Light Spender I'm Focusing M+ Pesto for DR and P1 Comp Scarlita Stall team that keep me Rank Top 2-5, with this Buff it Make My Rank cemented in my Rare Whale Server. I can Beat Player spend Above me that focusing many S+ heroes in PvP. Best decision, now i can Save Up Stargazing, for future Heroes
Okay ngl. The team comps Nau was using were kinda not synergizing well. Like Harak on a Wilder stall team? Ulmus without Eironn? Like what are we doing here. And the P4 account has the meta team comps, they're not like random mishmash of heroes. I wanna see proper P2 team comps that can theoretically rival the P4 comps prior to paragon buffs.
This video is just manipulation. No reiable showcase of changes, just random p2 team going against p4 meta pvp comps... You would get wiped without any paragon changes...
@@mlekosojowe7312 are you guys dense or just full ignorant , take a look at the reguler arena one P2 vs P3 and P2 one have MORE meta team with damian than P3 but guess what the P2 one cant even take the P3 to 90% hp its SO ONE SIDED . AND they have the same heroes only different is reinier on P3 side which not even a healer but its so one sided .
take a look at the end of vids where p3 crushed p2 with literaly same heroes and IMO P2 have better comps with damian instead of renier but guess what ? cant even make a scratch on the p3 heroes . THEN he shows the exact match with exact mirror heroes and also the same different comp which is damian vs reinier but damian comp WIN coz both are p2 . do i need to explain more hahah
@@muhammadfauzhan1182 These guys must have wasted 40k on the game like absolute animals and are now mad that community wants roll back on paragon changes
The easiest solution for them is by calculation those bonus/reduction based on avarage value for team e.g. if you have 1 paragon it should be 1/5 of those stats.
I suspect they will drop just drop the values of intimidate and inspire or have them no longer stack from multiple sources. As it doesnt really make sense that you get inspired or intimidated multiple times. Having it not stack alleviated a significant portion of the issue since its 5x lower in the case you p1 v.s p.2 and 100% lower if you have single p2 into a team of p2 since with only highest source countered you single p2 would negate all theres at least for the aura effects.
Honestly, as a mid-spender I don't think I'll play the new season if this is what it's going to be. I only really enjoyed this game because it was competitive
@mlekosojowe7312 No, but if this game turns into how many Paragon Heroes, I can just shove on my team at what level then it's not really fun anymore. If the number and quality of Paragon Heroes is the only thing that guarantees you, when and why play competitive.
@@j.b.t.7579 xD You were never competing as a mid spender vs whales. You would get rekt by paragons 3/4 pre or post change. If anything this is buff to low/mid spenders who went for p1/p2 heroes for pvp instead of building whole S+ roaster. This makes pvp arena healthier and more rewarding. Many people quit the game cause they got to p1 ( invested double the copies to one hero ) and still got beaten by S+ comp. Even puzzle made a video how paragons are a bait unless they are p3/p4. If anything this change should have been implemented way earlier.
I am very not surprised hahaha I played and know this game since early AFK Arena. I played this game only couple weeks when it was released. It seems they are really faster doing something like this. Yeah, something like this. Hahahaha...
This change doesn’t really affect 99.9% of people playing this game. Everyone commenting that they’re downvoting the game was never going to beat a team of paragon 4s anyway. If you spent like 10k on the game and you used to be able to sometimes get a lucky win off of a team of p3/p4s and you no longer can because of this change, that’s unfortunate. But there was no way to consistently beat whales before or after this change without being one yourself. Unless you’re on a zombie server none of you are f2p and competing with people who spend thousands. Why is everyone pushing this fairytale narrative like this game hasn’t been p2w from the start?
@@Costanto_ 40k is pretty low. I don't think you're beating any whales with that account. Maybe you got some circumstancial matchup, but 50k is like 6-8k investment. lol. I don't see how that would happen unless the people on your server are just choosing random heroes for their defense or something.
@@venheartzeil3070 It's a matter of adaptation and having the right heroes, I don't have all of them but the ones I have are good enough in the arena. I can stream on discord.
14% difference in energy, heals shields and buffs PER UNIT to entire team, so... ya, 1 or 2 paragon levels ahead should be enough to decide the winner. There's literally no other mechanic in the game this impactful.
I wonder if Clashfronts will be back in the game. If so it will make completely no sense to compete if you have any players with paragaon characters with such big advantage coming from the new buffs.
It really wouldnt matter, just look at the replays - other team cant even do dmg or heal at all. honestly, testing is not even needed if you just look at the numbers. it's not a surprise to anyone.
are you guys dense or just full ignorant , take a look at the reguler arena one P2 vs P3 and P2 one have MORE meta team with damian then P3 but guess what the P2 one cant even take the P3 to 90% hp its SO ONE SIDED . AND they have the same heroes only different is reinier on P3 side which not even a healer but its so one sided .
I don't think we have to... their revenue will tank for sure and they will realize it soon enough. I just hope they realize how difficult it is to revert changes like these.
@edumazieri It is also not necessary to sink AFKJ. If the income runs out, the game is over and many players will agree that AFKJ has a lot of potential and they don't want the game to close. I come from Netmarble games and there the boyikots work because they end up listening to the community. In the end both parties win: We are compensated for the inconvenience caused, with the season fixes made and AFKJ maintaining its stability and progress
Hi Puzzle! Ich schau mir schon echt lange deine Videos an. Du machst das klasse! Zu dem Paragon...ganz ehrlich? Das ist für mich ein Grund zu quitten. Ich will kein Spiel spielen, das noch schlimmer ist als die Spiele von Ubisoft. Meiner gesamten Gilde auf S347 wird es genau so gehen. Wofür hab ich dann als Midspender überhaupt Geld ausgegeben und die Macher vom Spiel unterstützt? Das geht echt zu weit.
I do believe P4 should win against P3 and so on, because it’s all about money now, but as time goes on people will have P3-P4 heroes and the time investment should be worth something. However… watching this video the difference is waaaay too big. Any chance we can see a combat of P1 wilders or maulers vs S+ hypoceles? Because… if the P1 wilders are able to win, the mechanic is kind of a buff for some accounts.
Well ya, paragon levels provide a buff/debuff that is mechanically more impactful than anything else in the game. That's the problem with it. Its fair that higher paragon levels should be stronger, it's just not fun to play a game where paragon levels are the only thing that matter. Why bother with new units? just hyperinvest into whatever. It invalidates all other game mechanics.
time to review bomb this game, i always like the fairness with free2play and the fact they sell skins a lil salty was ok-good like they need money ok, but this is absurd
inspiration/intimidation needs to be removed for sure. But most players would be fine if they add some other mechanically consistent buffs to higher paragon levels. Its not like f2p players would be surprised that p4 meta comps should be stronger than s+ comps.
Skill issue 100%, you just delusional, give proof in video all the mega whales with p3/p4 dominate supreme arena/arena with no chance of victory. Do you want such a diff in power that no one will fight against you? that will be most boring gameplay ever and youll end up quitting being rank1 everywhere, get a life
for sure but not to the point that's unbeatable, it shouldn't make sense that a mirael P4 team that doesn't have synergy can easily beat a meta P3 team with lily in the first place.
@@RuruSheeesh @ but how you make this argument? Nobody is using a meta P3 team to challenge a mirael P4 team. Instead the video shows us the other way around.
The p4 Team should stomp the much worse P2 team with bad EX, Paragon and Comp compared to the other team, but i guess they should fix is so that p2 against p4 feels like the p2 against p3 battle. In the end its only PVP focused and at some point every game PVP is dominated by spenders.
I do think that paragon does need a rework and this is coming from a free to play player. I do think people are uninstalling the game to quickly without getting all the info for this update. There are questions I have like are they increasing seasonal tokens because of it? Another thing to think about is the seasonal store allows you to buy units easier than before to paragon hero which I do think at points its not mention enough. I find that they do give a lot more rewards at this time than some companies. I feel like at times whale should have some advantage with their paragon hero plus some of the veteran player who have played for a long time only to find out paragon does not do much at all. This is an issues to be honest but people want to look at all the bad instead of how it affects whale and long term players.We need people to spend money to keep the game alive. what the use of doing that if paragon if its useless? One more thing on the hyper units I am ok if there is three units as long as they are not all must have for the player base. At the end of the day I feel like people just want things hand to them sometimes instead of understanding that they have to make money too and the whale fund the game. Sorry to tell people everything can't be free.
Again the dev roll out these changes without asking the community how they feel, they've done this before and they made changes. This shouldn't happen if they listen to the people who played their games. This is clearly catered to the whales who've spent thousands of dollars.
PVP as in Pay vs Pay? P4 vs P3/2 is oppressive enough as it is. In my server their is only 1 p4 whale. And he is undoubtedly rank 1 in all formats, which I do not have a problem with knowing how much he must have spent. Lilith may want to make more ppl spend more to get p4 by making it stronger. But I guarantee it would just drive ppl away. There are little P4 because of how ridiculously expensive it is, nothing else.
How much money do i have to spend to get paragon 3? I dumbed like 300 $ in the game over the last 2 years and i am not anywhere close to geting a sinlge paragon 2, because you need x paragon 1 to even start pargon 2. Its ridic.
You need 20 Paragon 1 to unlock P2. I've spent $1200 on this game and I've only got 12 P1 heroes so far. I was thinking of taking a break from this game, because you can't take breaks or go on vacation if you want to stay competitive in current Dream Realm or PVP. The Season 3 changes is no brainer for me to take a break from this game, I just want to not have to log in daily at all for a few weeks or months.
$1200-1500 each P4, that team cost at least $7000, and you think it should be weak and lose in defense against P1-2? how does that make sense for the one who paid then? why don't you think each tier will compete on its own, so the winning or losing factor between the same tier will be the understanding of game mechanics: spells, charms, team comp...
They never said it should be weak, just should be beatable. You saw how those P4 took absolutely no DMG during the fight, it's not interesting even for whales atp. Imho they made an unnecessary change, those paragon teams were already hard enough to beat that it took multiple tries to beat. Totally dumb move from the devs and I'm sure no one asked for that, no one sane at least.
@ but still, $7000 for 5 chars is a lot of money for one team. and someone with mixed S+, P1-2 (dolphins, spent $1000 or less in 7 months, VIP 15) shouldn’t be able to beat it just by moving a few characters around, or use a different spell.. Just think as someone with VIP 22, spent $40k, lost to someone VIP 15, spent $1000. Do you feel great or feel dumb for spending?
@@TaiNguyen-on3cz I do agree that a buff needed to be made considering you didn't gain much for a big investment as Puzzle mentioned. However they went too far, boosting the stats was enough yet they went and made an unneeded inspiration/ intimidation system. The game isn't even 1 y/o, most players are just going to leave and so will whales when they have no one to dominate anymore
The buff looks even better than I expected. No more awkward losses to someone above you, and F2p-sites can now comfortably stay within their own weight class. That said, I do suspect this may be framing strategy to get minor buffs instead. They may nerf it to be unstackable and have the F2p-sites see this as a win. Regardless, it's a good way to appeal to their players that actually matter while maintaining their reputation to the byproduct.
Is he really about to show a team that never stood a chance pre-change lose to a team post-change and be surprised? Please tell me that doesnt happen xD
@@mlekosojowe7312 When people have to grasp at straws and gaslight to this lvl, I know the problem ain't that serious. I've been saying it to many others, just stay in your weight class. If you're S+ than fight S+, if you're P1 than fight P1s, if you're P2 than fight P2s, etc etc. I never came into this game expecting to defeat people above my weight class. I got lucky wins in the past doing that lucky as in the person had a garbage P4 team of tomatoes that was easy to counter but when they set a real defense up, it was ggs for me. As it should be
@@KillaBryx I agree. Also Paragons were in need of a buff as there was no point in going for p1/p2 heroes before instead of buidling every hero to S+. P2 was so underwhelming many mid spender players quit due to feeling complete money waste on them. The whole community outburst just shows they have no idea about the game they play.
@@mlekosojowe7312 It seems like they want it all. The almighty power fantasy of beating P4 heroes with a team of P1s. Bro what? Lol come on now. Half the people complaining probably never defeated someone above their weight class in the first place. Im confident this change will have no effect on me. My top 10 is full of people basically all in the same weight class except 1st and 2nd. They're basically untouchable P4 warlords. And this new patch isn't gonna change that.
Yep, and at the beginning of the launch of AFKJ they said they plan to last for 10 years, I don't see this game lasting 5 years with how they are managing this game.
F2p can go up against whales from the beginning to season 2. As long as they have S+ with good team comps they can go toe to toe with P4 whale account. With this Season 3 changes F2P have no chance even with their S+ or P1 to go up against whales with P3 and P4 heroes.
@richs347 Oh I see. But I as a dev feel this is worth it. Making glory for those who maximize the potential of the hero for pvp duels. As a note, s+ only opens all passive/active skills. But P4 is the maximum hero upgrade. Imagine, a 100% maximum hero loses to an 80% hero.
but that doesn't affect gameplay. I couldn't care less about cosmetics. now the paragon changes make the game less fun for everybody, even the whales will think it is boring if there's no difficulty at all.
If they actually do this then atleast just REMOVE the requirements on getting Paragon 2-4 tiers in the game 🤦 since we literally have to get "20" heroes on a Paragon tier to unlock the next tier that really takes time and sometimes some of those heroes won't be even used anymore even if they are on that Paragon tier
Looks like the buffs are working as intended. Glad to see krakens finally be able to compete against each other without worrying about the lower tiers being annoying. Given how much more money p3 and p4 are against p2 and lower, this change was overdue.
I’m confused ? So you say it’s overkill .. so you’re saying it’s not fair that someone who spent 20k to build p4 beats someone who spent like 200? lol make it make sense. Like why would a f2p or super low spender should be able to beat a p4 ? Like come on. I agree it’s a little strong but no p1 or even p2 should beat a p4
I honestly don't think it will make that much difference to the rankings, the top five will still be top five. People are blowing this way out of proportion. Paragon still makes no difference in anything outside of PvP. If people have spent 20k + on this game should they not be on top?
L take. Of course it makes a difference. I'm top 10 in both arena and supreme arena. Dedicated mid-spender beating people with higher Paragon levels. This will make that impossible. What's hard to understand?
@@MegaPurnell because alot of people are still able to compete at lower paragon tiers with better strategy. with the change no strategy will make any difference. Takes any fun the game had away
I can't say for everyone's servers. I am also top 10 in Arena in my server as a low spender. However there are maybe 5 or 6 people who have P1's and one guy who has P4's. So it is unlikely my rank will change. I feel many newer servers are similar and as such people's accounts are similar, especially amongst the f2p's. I can't say this is the same for all servers however this is what I have experienced. Unless you have over 20 people with P1's you regularly beat. I don't think either of your ranks will change much either.
The theory should be: S+ can fight P2 P2 can fight P4 The gap should be 2 tier. If you try to pass this gap, you still have chance to win but it is very small. The 2 new stats also need to be low down too. It should be 30-40% as current is ok. Other old stats should be the same as before. Im thiking about not going for hypo celes heroes anymore but just paragon normal hero for wining zz
@ p2 is not that much. Even f2p now can get 1-2 p1 heroes. It will help everyone have the chance to win stronger player but still fair enough. For example: F2P cant no more defeat whale but still can win mid spender sometimes. Mid spender can have chance to high spender, and high spender can fight whale. Assuming that top 1-5 arena will be whale/high spender fighting, top 6-20 will be high/mid spender fighting good low spender account. The rest should be f2p, a really good f2p account can get top 20 by winning low/mid spender but no way they can get to top5. I think it is fair enough for everyone.
You seem like you want s+ to be able to beat p2 and above people. Like why ? They shouldn’t .. I agree it’s a little too strong. But being p4 you should be! It’s the max in the game. Even p2 or p3 .. like get away the intimidation but keep the stats for sure
Actually, S+ should still have a chance with better placement and team setup. It should be difficult, but still possible with RNG at least. That’s what makes PVP fun. The challenge. Having a single character as P2 or P3 should not make your team effectively invincible to an S+.
The issue currently is that even with mirror match p4 is losing against p1/p2 which doesn’t make sense at all. There’s no positioning or team setup factor it’s just randomness which is a very bad design for someone spending 20k+
The hardest hit are the whales here. You go from a fun game, where they invested a ton and in which they have an edge, to a dead game, in which they invested a ton, but there's no reason to log in at all. F2P walk away, but no skin in the game. Medium spend will just play with each other for a bit, until no progression kills it for them. And the whales can be like the original Satoshi BTC address - just sitting there, like a fixture, dead nature.
Even now, whales do not receive pvp content, they sit in the top 5 and no one even touches them when they enter this mode. they give f2p content to the players, but not to themselves.😇
As a whale, the reason why i wanted to spend on this game was because of how f2p friendly it was compared to a lot of other gacha/mobile games. Which was a sign that the devs wanted people to have fun, and they would be releasing content that would keep us hooked. But after seeing this. If the devs don't reverse this change, they won't be seeing a single dollar from me.
I'm curious to how much you've spent... cuz honestly at this point a thousand is tiny compared to what this game requires for p2 above
@lifepasses1875 i am VIP 17. Close to unlocking VIP 18
@@jeecie1234 less than $8000, so my guess is you have P1-2 majority roster and maybe a few P3? no wonder you are not happy with the P4, who spent $20k $30k
just spend more, bro /s
as a f2p player thanks for paying I love this game, really refreshing to see that outlook from a whale
This make me laught at this point. Its not pvp, its Money vs Money purely.... i rate the game 1/5 on playstore. Hope everyone who disagree gonna do the same.
Well the game is good, as long you don't want to play it comepetitve.
My thing is this only gonna affect PVP as far as my understanding. I’m not a big PVP anyways so really I kinda don’t care. I understand why they want to do this because they need money at the end of the day. It makes sense. I understand them releasing three hyper units. To be honest this season I felt like the two hyper units were really not that impressive for me to even put coin towards. Before people say harak is good, he’s a selfish unit therefore he will not last as long as the other supports. I would rather invest my resources in different units just my opinion.
@@matthiasbohnstedt1186 Well so basicly the game tells to 98% of the playerbase to just fuckyourself and remove 40 % of the game content off them. i can understand to have more challenge against a whale, but this is just a 0 % chance to win. So for me its bad and i prefer to leave the game cause we cant enjoy all the content as before. The game is a mix of pvp and pve and if there is no strategic involve now in pvp what's the point to keep playing at the end the day it's boring content. I like pvp and now if PVP is totally unfair i rather play a game with no pvp at all instead of a fake pvp mode where your wallet decide if you win or not.
@@jessicaperry8448you should care Noone stop them from doing the same in pve next season and then it will be too late
Same rated it 1 star for the change
Insert the "This if fine" meme from the perspective of the developers and whales here. :')
Count this 'whale' out. I hate these changes.
This is the start of the end. Was fun while it lasted, I expected this patch 2 years in with hard merges but happened at 10 months. They just don't care at all, probably half of the team is working in the next scam. That's Lilith Games.
TLDR; don't fight anyone with +1 paragon to yours. Guaranteed loss.
I'm already rate AFKJ with 1 star with comment against "paragon changes" in future patch in Google Play. And duplicate my opinion in game support. Do the same, please! We must not remain silent when our favorite game is killed in front of our eyes. Thank you!
Exactly, greed will destroy this beautiful game.
Thats also good option.
They'll probably nerf the change, but it'll still be worse than it is today for F2P and low spenders. The next season will probably be the last one I play, this is getting ridiculous.
yeap, things will only get worse from this point on
yeah, same here. I was already not a fan of the pvp on this game, now I just hate it, if they don't revert it on the next season, I'm quitting.
The weirdest thing is they didn't instantly reverse the buffs like they did when harak gets hotfixed in a day to not make him less op in some bosses before
I wonder why these devs are playing with fire without saying anything at this point like it feels so intentional and bizarre and malicious like are they trolling us at this point?
I thought it would be bad, but this is ridiculous
Now that they already unleashed the hounds on the VN server with those new stats, I highly doubt they will do a 180 and remove everything or reduce it, guess pvp should be named wvw (wallet vs wallet) from now on...
The funny thing that you can put 4 random paragon 1 characters and one strong carry and you probably will win any good team without paragon because of those stat boosts/reductions
Ulmus getting 1 energy ticks in his rooted forms is craaaaazy.
This is trash they are going to make everyone who isnt a whale quit😂
Whales are the ones getting hit the hardest
As f2p i really don't care
But imagine paying 4 thousand dollars to get absolutely stomped by someone paid 5 thousand dollars
Not even with the best strategy just brute force brain dead power
Like imagine getting stomped by Paragon 4 valen with kafra and walker and salazar team 😅😅
@@cosmiclight6633 I think the same. I used to think this way about mid spenders, but after seeing the miserable state of a p2 berial account, I changed my mind 😅
Might as well just give people with paragon 4 a skip function against anyone who doesn't.
Everyone give the game 1 star on your app stores so that they can see the significance to their changes! I just did my review
It is also to force people to paragon their hypo/cele instead of building multiple S+. Imagine a full S+ hypo/cele defense comp losing to full f2p P1 comp.
You got a point, 😊 as Light Spender I'm Focusing M+ Pesto for DR and P1 Comp Scarlita Stall team that keep me Rank Top 2-5, with this Buff it Make My Rank cemented in my Rare Whale Server.
I can Beat Player spend Above me that focusing many S+ heroes in PvP.
Best decision, now i can Save Up Stargazing, for future Heroes
that will happen haha as a whale, you should totally ignore hypo/celes from now on.
Okay ngl. The team comps Nau was using were kinda not synergizing well. Like Harak on a Wilder stall team? Ulmus without Eironn? Like what are we doing here.
And the P4 account has the meta team comps, they're not like random mishmash of heroes.
I wanna see proper P2 team comps that can theoretically rival the P4 comps prior to paragon buffs.
Also faction talent 5 v.s 10 is likely a relavent difference stat wise (obviously it wasnt the sole contributior)
This video is just manipulation. No reiable showcase of changes, just random p2 team going against p4 meta pvp comps... You would get wiped without any paragon changes...
@@mlekosojowe7312 are you guys dense or just full ignorant , take a look at the reguler arena one P2 vs P3 and P2 one have MORE meta team with damian than P3 but guess what the P2 one cant even take the P3 to 90% hp its SO ONE SIDED . AND they have the same heroes only different is reinier on P3 side which not even a healer but its so one sided .
take a look at the end of vids where p3 crushed p2 with literaly same heroes and IMO P2 have better comps with damian instead of renier but guess what ? cant even make a scratch on the p3 heroes . THEN he shows the exact match with exact mirror heroes and also the same different comp which is damian vs reinier but damian comp WIN coz both are p2 . do i need to explain more hahah
@@muhammadfauzhan1182 These guys must have wasted 40k on the game like absolute animals and are now mad that community wants roll back on paragon changes
The easiest solution for them is by calculation those bonus/reduction based on avarage value for team e.g. if you have 1 paragon it should be 1/5 of those stats.
Sadly but looks like LILITH dont care.
This is so funny at this point that i wish i never started playing this game.
a solution might be adding a new mechanic, which should be free in, that can close the gap and introduce a 'challange" aspect to pvp
I suspect they will drop just drop the values of intimidate and inspire or have them no longer stack from multiple sources.
As it doesnt really make sense that you get inspired or intimidated multiple times. Having it not stack alleviated a significant portion of the issue since its 5x lower in the case you p1 v.s p.2 and 100% lower if you have single p2 into a team of p2 since with only highest source countered you single p2 would negate all theres at least for the aura effects.
Honestly, as a mid-spender I don't think I'll play the new season if this is what it's going to be. I only really enjoyed this game because it was competitive
You're going to quit over the worst showcase of changes possiable? You think pre patch random p2, team could stand a chance against p4 CelHypo comp?
@mlekosojowe7312 No, but if this game turns into how many Paragon Heroes, I can just shove on my team at what level then it's not really fun anymore. If the number and quality of Paragon Heroes is the only thing that guarantees you, when and why play competitive.
@@j.b.t.7579 xD You were never competing as a mid spender vs whales. You would get rekt by paragons 3/4 pre or post change. If anything this is buff to low/mid spenders who went for p1/p2 heroes for pvp instead of building whole S+ roaster. This makes pvp arena healthier and more rewarding. Many people quit the game cause they got to p1 ( invested double the copies to one hero ) and still got beaten by S+ comp. Even puzzle made a video how paragons are a bait unless they are p3/p4. If anything this change should have been implemented way earlier.
I am very not surprised hahaha I played and know this game since early AFK Arena. I played this game only couple weeks when it was released. It seems they are really faster doing something like this. Yeah, something like this. Hahahaha...
This change doesn’t really affect 99.9% of people playing this game. Everyone commenting that they’re downvoting the game was never going to beat a team of paragon 4s anyway. If you spent like 10k on the game and you used to be able to sometimes get a lucky win off of a team of p3/p4s and you no longer can because of this change, that’s unfortunate. But there was no way to consistently beat whales before or after this change without being one yourself. Unless you’re on a zombie server none of you are f2p and competing with people who spend thousands. Why is everyone pushing this fairytale narrative like this game hasn’t been p2w from the start?
I beat ptw players as an ftp player. I have 40k power and i beat people with 50k+ in regular and supreme arena
@@Costanto_ 40k is pretty low. I don't think you're beating any whales with that account. Maybe you got some circumstancial matchup, but 50k is like 6-8k investment. lol. I don't see how that would happen unless the people on your server are just choosing random heroes for their defense or something.
@@venheartzeil3070 It's a matter of adaptation and having the right heroes, I don't have all of them but the ones I have are good enough in the arena. I can stream on discord.
This might be the beginning of the downfall of this game. Very sad I loved this game
Try to put 1-3 paragon characters against 5 regular characters, I think one paragon character can handle five 🤣
14% difference in energy, heals shields and buffs PER UNIT to entire team, so... ya, 1 or 2 paragon levels ahead should be enough to decide the winner. There's literally no other mechanic in the game this impactful.
I wonder if Clashfronts will be back in the game. If so it will make completely no sense to compete if you have any players with paragaon characters with such big advantage coming from the new buffs.
Simple fix... keep the slight paragon stat buffs, and do away with Inspiration, and Intimidation.
Good thing I don't care about pvp. This kind of thing is precisely why I haven't paid for anything in mobile games in years.
This is insane.....this update should not have place for at least 12 months more....
Finally, I can beat dumb Tasi by having Paragons
well, I feel like the P4 account has the meta team comps, while the P2 account doesn’t use proper teams😅what’s the point of this comparison?
It really wouldnt matter, just look at the replays - other team cant even do dmg or heal at all. honestly, testing is not even needed if you just look at the numbers. it's not a surprise to anyone.
are you guys dense or just full ignorant , take a look at the reguler arena one P2 vs P3 and P2 one have MORE meta team with damian then P3 but guess what the P2 one cant even take the P3 to 90% hp its SO ONE SIDED . AND they have the same heroes only different is reinier on P3 side which not even a healer but its so one sided .
i can see the logic of increasing p3 and p4 stats because, well, they require higher copies than p1 and p2, the rest is bs
We need to start a boyikot against the bad changes of season 3
I don't think we have to... their revenue will tank for sure and they will realize it soon enough. I just hope they realize how difficult it is to revert changes like these.
@edumazieri It is also not necessary to sink AFKJ. If the income runs out, the game is over and many players will agree that AFKJ has a lot of potential and they don't want the game to close. I come from Netmarble games and there the boyikots work because they end up listening to the community. In the end both parties win: We are compensated for the inconvenience caused, with the season fixes made and AFKJ maintaining its stability and progress
Hi Puzzle! Ich schau mir schon echt lange deine Videos an. Du machst das klasse! Zu dem Paragon...ganz ehrlich? Das ist für mich ein Grund zu quitten. Ich will kein Spiel spielen, das noch schlimmer ist als die Spiele von Ubisoft. Meiner gesamten Gilde auf S347 wird es genau so gehen. Wofür hab ich dann als Midspender überhaupt Geld ausgegeben und die Macher vom Spiel unterstützt? Das geht echt zu weit.
Can't wait to go back to the bottom of the food chain once again lol
I do believe P4 should win against P3 and so on, because it’s all about money now, but as time goes on people will have P3-P4 heroes and the time investment should be worth something. However… watching this video the difference is waaaay too big.
Any chance we can see a combat of P1 wilders or maulers vs S+ hypoceles? Because… if the P1 wilders are able to win, the mechanic is kind of a buff for some accounts.
Well ya, paragon levels provide a buff/debuff that is mechanically more impactful than anything else in the game. That's the problem with it. Its fair that higher paragon levels should be stronger, it's just not fun to play a game where paragon levels are the only thing that matter. Why bother with new units? just hyperinvest into whatever. It invalidates all other game mechanics.
The battle ended without even some heroes on the p4 side doing any damage 😅
time to review bomb this game, i always like the fairness with free2play and the fact they sell skins a lil salty was ok-good like they need money ok, but this is absurd
I full reversion needs to happen. get rid of the new buffs they added, and bring back the stats to what they were. this is just dum
inspiration/intimidation needs to be removed for sure. But most players would be fine if they add some other mechanically consistent buffs to higher paragon levels. Its not like f2p players would be surprised that p4 meta comps should be stronger than s+ comps.
i mean my p4s in a mirror match loses to p1s p2s atm that shouldn't ever be the case so this isnt a skill dif in team comps its a straight 1v1 mirror
Skill issue 100%, you just delusional, give proof in video
all the mega whales with p3/p4 dominate supreme arena/arena with no chance of victory.
Do you want such a diff in power that no one will fight against you? that will be most boring gameplay ever and youll end up quitting being rank1 everywhere, get a life
Wow looks so balanced and fun, can’t wait to not play any arena anymore…
Shouldn’t be P3 dominates P2? I can’t understand the logic
for sure but not to the point that's unbeatable, it shouldn't make sense that a mirael P4 team that doesn't have synergy can easily beat a meta P3 team with lily in the first place.
@@RuruSheeesh @ but how you make this argument? Nobody is using a meta P3 team to challenge a mirael P4 team. Instead the video shows us the other way around.
@ I would say a meta P3 team is unbeatable by a meta P2 one. Do you agree with this?
The p4 Team should stomp the much worse P2 team with bad EX, Paragon and Comp compared to the other team, but i guess they should fix is so that p2 against p4 feels like the p2 against p3 battle. In the end its only PVP focused and at some point every game PVP is dominated by spenders.
This is like Genshin requiring C6 characters lol
Paragons need to be strengthened, but not that much.
I do think that paragon does need a rework and this is coming from a free to play player. I do think people are uninstalling the game to quickly without getting all the info for this update. There are questions I have like are they increasing seasonal tokens because of it? Another thing to think about is the seasonal store allows you to buy units easier than before to paragon hero which I do think at points its not mention enough. I find that they do give a lot more rewards at this time than some companies. I feel like at times whale should have some advantage with their paragon hero plus some of the veteran player who have played for a long time only to find out paragon does not do much at all. This is an issues to be honest but people want to look at all the bad instead of how it affects whale and long term players.We need people to spend money to keep the game alive. what the use of doing that if paragon if its useless? One more thing on the hyper units I am ok if there is three units as long as they are not all must have for the player base. At the end of the day I feel like people just want things hand to them sometimes instead of understanding that they have to make money too and the whale fund the game. Sorry to tell people everything can't be free.
Again the dev roll out these changes without asking the community how they feel, they've done this before and they made changes. This shouldn't happen if they listen to the people who played their games. This is clearly catered to the whales who've spent thousands of dollars.
PVP as in Pay vs Pay?
P4 vs P3/2 is oppressive enough as it is. In my server their is only 1 p4 whale. And he is undoubtedly rank 1 in all formats, which I do not have a problem with knowing how much he must have spent.
Lilith may want to make more ppl spend more to get p4 by making it stronger. But I guarantee it would just drive ppl away.
There are little P4 because of how ridiculously expensive it is, nothing else.
How much money do i have to spend to get paragon 3? I dumbed like 300 $ in the game over the last 2 years and i am not anywhere close to geting a sinlge paragon 2, because you need x paragon 1 to even start pargon 2. Its ridic.
Atleast $2000 I think. And that depends if you're a horizontal or vertical team builder
P3? 5.000$
You need 20 Paragon 1 to unlock P2. I've spent $1200 on this game and I've only got 12 P1 heroes so far. I was thinking of taking a break from this game, because you can't take breaks or go on vacation if you want to stay competitive in current Dream Realm or PVP. The Season 3 changes is no brainer for me to take a break from this game, I just want to not have to log in daily at all for a few weeks or months.
$1200-1500 each P4, that team cost at least $7000, and you think it should be weak and lose in defense against P1-2? how does that make sense for the one who paid then? why don't you think each tier will compete on its own, so the winning or losing factor between the same tier will be the understanding of game mechanics: spells, charms, team comp...
They never said it should be weak, just should be beatable. You saw how those P4 took absolutely no DMG during the fight, it's not interesting even for whales atp.
Imho they made an unnecessary change, those paragon teams were already hard enough to beat that it took multiple tries to beat. Totally dumb move from the devs and I'm sure no one asked for that, no one sane at least.
@ but still, $7000 for 5 chars is a lot of money for one team. and someone with mixed S+, P1-2 (dolphins, spent $1000 or less in 7 months, VIP 15) shouldn’t be able to beat it just by moving a few characters around, or use a different spell..
Just think as someone with VIP 22, spent $40k, lost to someone VIP 15, spent $1000. Do you feel great or feel dumb for spending?
@@TaiNguyen-on3cz I do agree that a buff needed to be made considering you didn't gain much for a big investment as Puzzle mentioned. However they went too far, boosting the stats was enough yet they went and made an unneeded inspiration/ intimidation system. The game isn't even 1 y/o, most players are just going to leave and so will whales when they have no one to dominate anymore
The buff looks even better than I expected. No more awkward losses to someone above you, and F2p-sites can now comfortably stay within their own weight class. That said, I do suspect this may be framing strategy to get minor buffs instead. They may nerf it to be unstackable and have the F2p-sites see this as a win. Regardless, it's a good way to appeal to their players that actually matter while maintaining their reputation to the byproduct.
Well time to quit I guess F2P is dead.
I strongly believe devs don't play the game
Is he really about to show a team that never stood a chance pre-change lose to a team post-change and be surprised? Please tell me that doesnt happen xD
Exactly this.
@@mlekosojowe7312 When people have to grasp at straws and gaslight to this lvl, I know the problem ain't that serious. I've been saying it to many others, just stay in your weight class. If you're S+ than fight S+, if you're P1 than fight P1s, if you're P2 than fight P2s, etc etc. I never came into this game expecting to defeat people above my weight class. I got lucky wins in the past doing that lucky as in the person had a garbage P4 team of tomatoes that was easy to counter but when they set a real defense up, it was ggs for me. As it should be
@@KillaBryx I agree. Also Paragons were in need of a buff as there was no point in going for p1/p2 heroes before instead of buidling every hero to S+. P2 was so underwhelming many mid spender players quit due to feeling complete money waste on them. The whole community outburst just shows they have no idea about the game they play.
@@mlekosojowe7312 It seems like they want it all. The almighty power fantasy of beating P4 heroes with a team of P1s. Bro what? Lol come on now. Half the people complaining probably never defeated someone above their weight class in the first place. Im confident this change will have no effect on me. My top 10 is full of people basically all in the same weight class except 1st and 2nd. They're basically untouchable P4 warlords. And this new patch isn't gonna change that.
@@KillaBryx 99% player base wont be affected negativly by it.
They will first lose the dolphins and gold fishes, because they can't compete anymore. Then the whales because of no players
Yep, and at the beginning of the launch of AFKJ they said they plan to last for 10 years, I don't see this game lasting 5 years with how they are managing this game.
Since when can f2p enjoy pvp in this kind of game? Are you kidding me? 😂
F2p can go up against whales from the beginning to season 2. As long as they have S+ with good team comps they can go toe to toe with P4 whale account. With this Season 3 changes F2P have no chance even with their S+ or P1 to go up against whales with P3 and P4 heroes.
@richs347 Oh I see. But I as a dev feel this is worth it. Making glory for those who maximize the potential of the hero for pvp duels. As a note, s+ only opens all passive/active skills. But P4 is the maximum hero upgrade. Imagine, a 100% maximum hero loses to an 80% hero.
Hope people who wanted to start playing sees this first and stop.
I am done spending because this is no fun to play any more
Guys, paragon can distract you. Don't forget about the gacha for cosmetics. Paying $300 for a costume is absolutely absurd.
but that doesn't affect gameplay. I couldn't care less about cosmetics. now the paragon changes make the game less fun for everybody, even the whales will think it is boring if there's no difficulty at all.
No it’s not. If you wanna spend 300 to look great that’s on you. Spending 300 to be completely unbeatable is a problem.
Cosmetic is here to distract us from paragon 😂
I'll quit😂
Welp, hope to see u Guys in my next games :3 im definitly done after RR, even if they revert the changes. Trust is gone for good
this is hopeless.
If they actually do this then atleast just REMOVE the requirements on getting Paragon 2-4 tiers in the game 🤦 since we literally have to get "20" heroes on a Paragon tier to unlock the next tier that really takes time and sometimes some of those heroes won't be even used anymore even if they are on that Paragon tier
fixed? reverted. unless the whales want to play with bots for the rest of their lives while the rest of us arent playing
Looks like the buffs are working as intended. Glad to see krakens finally be able to compete against each other without worrying about the lower tiers being annoying. Given how much more money p3 and p4 are against p2 and lower, this change was overdue.
Wait until that's the only people that plays the game just whales and Krakens, the servers will be a ghost town without F2P in the mix.
I’m confused ? So you say it’s overkill .. so you’re saying it’s not fair that someone who spent 20k to build p4 beats someone who spent like 200? lol make it make sense. Like why would a f2p or super low spender should be able to beat a p4 ? Like come on. I agree it’s a little strong but no p1 or even p2 should beat a p4
Someone who has P4s is already in top 3 in all modes, mostly in top 1.
This change is making everyone except the krakens worry.
@ not rly?
@ I don’t have any p4 and I have like 6 p3 and I beat some of the whole who have max p4 in some things
@@ksam400 I'm not talking about being able to beat them right now. I'm talking about their rank. What is the rank of those with P4?
RIP
拜託改掉
This ... looks bad.
with or without the change, the outcome would’ve been the same. You cannot change my mind without prepatch evidence.
I'm skipping the next season, even if they revert the changes. Damage has already been done.
I honestly don't think it will make that much difference to the rankings, the top five will still be top five. People are blowing this way out of proportion. Paragon still makes no difference in anything outside of PvP. If people have spent 20k + on this game should they not be on top?
L take, and yes it will still make a difference
@NuketimeSR this is my opinion. How will things change from what they are now?
L take. Of course it makes a difference. I'm top 10 in both arena and supreme arena. Dedicated mid-spender beating people with higher Paragon levels. This will make that impossible. What's hard to understand?
@@MegaPurnell because alot of people are still able to compete at lower paragon tiers with better strategy. with the change no strategy will make any difference. Takes any fun the game had away
I can't say for everyone's servers. I am also top 10 in Arena in my server as a low spender. However there are maybe 5 or 6 people who have P1's and one guy who has P4's. So it is unlikely my rank will change. I feel many newer servers are similar and as such people's accounts are similar, especially amongst the f2p's. I can't say this is the same for all servers however this is what I have experienced. Unless you have over 20 people with P1's you regularly beat. I don't think either of your ranks will change much either.
They want to make sure that the people who payed thousand for $ are going to win. You cann't not disapoint your one and only target group :D
The theory should be:
S+ can fight P2
P2 can fight P4
The gap should be 2 tier. If you try to pass this gap, you still have chance to win but it is very small.
The 2 new stats also need to be low down too. It should be 30-40% as current is ok. Other old stats should be the same as before.
Im thiking about not going for hypo celes heroes anymore but just paragon normal hero for wining zz
What the point Paying P2 and have Chance Losing to S+?
@ p2 is not that much. Even f2p now can get 1-2 p1 heroes. It will help everyone have the chance to win stronger player but still fair enough. For example:
F2P cant no more defeat whale but still can win mid spender sometimes. Mid spender can have chance to high spender, and high spender can fight whale.
Assuming that top 1-5 arena will be whale/high spender fighting, top 6-20 will be high/mid spender fighting good low spender account.
The rest should be f2p, a really good f2p account can get top 20 by winning low/mid spender but no way they can get to top5. I think it is fair enough for everyone.
Pathetic.
You seem like you want s+ to be able to beat p2 and above people. Like why ? They shouldn’t .. I agree it’s a little too strong. But being p4 you should be! It’s the max in the game. Even p2 or p3 .. like get away the intimidation but keep the stats for sure
Actually, S+ should still have a chance with better placement and team setup.
It should be difficult, but still possible with RNG at least. That’s what makes PVP fun. The challenge.
Having a single character as P2 or P3 should not make your team effectively invincible to an S+.
The issue currently is that even with mirror match p4 is losing against p1/p2 which doesn’t make sense at all. There’s no positioning or team setup factor it’s just randomness which is a very bad design for someone spending 20k+
It was a good game guys 🫡
The hardest hit are the whales here. You go from a fun game, where they invested a ton and in which they have an edge, to a dead game, in which they invested a ton, but there's no reason to log in at all. F2P walk away, but no skin in the game. Medium spend will just play with each other for a bit, until no progression kills it for them. And the whales can be like the original Satoshi BTC address - just sitting there, like a fixture, dead nature.
Even now, whales do not receive pvp content, they sit in the top 5 and no one even touches them when they enter this mode. they give f2p content to the players, but not to themselves.😇