Hey dummies. Read the description before posting your worthless same comment again and again and again, each time thinking you're the very first person to be dumb enough to post it.
@@joeybloey3631 It's been a while since I read his biography, but I'm *pretty sure* Roddenberry wasn't adding dog whistles in TNG to promote the insurrectionist interpretation of the 2nd Amendment.
@monkeys I don't see how it's too pretentious, considering it's a straightforward way of saying that TNG was *not* pretentious. I'm fairly certain I didn't use any words above the 5th grade level =) That said, you'd be hard pressed to deny that an amoral, anti-science demagogue and advocate of toxic reactionary populism doesn't make frequent use of dog whistles. It kind of comes with the territory. Culture wars and xenophobia are/were the calling cards.
@@TJDious I don't think that applies here. At the time in the 90s when "the troubles" were still in full flow, I (living in the UK) had no idea about this episode. It was only later once it was "unbanned" that the mainstream* discussions began - at least in the country where it was removed from broadcast. * I'm sure some of the die hard fans knew, but this was before most people were on the web, and way before TH-cam.
Have you not seen the literal cancer these made for modern audiences Devils produced? You can never go back home, dont believe me? Look no further than bad reboot's trek!
If it happens, it won’t be because of terrorism. It will be because Brexit turns out to be such a disaster that people in Northern Ireland want to get back into the EU via Irish reunification.
@@dansanger5340 Yeah 100% it won't be sectarian violence that unites Ireland, it will be the economic reality of cutting NI off from the Republic and the EU
This is just vintage TNG. Debate a huge question, acknowledge how difficult it is, and leave us still thinking about it decades later. Still the best Star Trek, and it's not even close.
I am confused on how this was banned when it aired before 9/11. I still think TNG made a good point. In compared to 9/11 where they terrorized simply because of religion. And a radical religion at that. I don't think Star Trek would condone any terrorization in the name of any religion. What Data was talking about was basic moral, human and civil rights. Two completely different things. The Boston Tea attack was a terrorist attack. The people who did it dressed up as Native Americans. Fun Fact, there was a actual group called The Son's of Liberty based on the Title Metal Gear Solid Son's of Liberty. They existed in the 1770s and was a propaganda rebellion group who help start the Revolutionary war. This arguement along is why Democrats want to get rid of Gittonmo bay. Simply for any person can lose their basic civil rights simply because what they did was considered a act of terror. We can also blur the lines on what is considered terrorism and what is not.
@@anthonygordon9483 it was only banned in the UK, because of the problems in Ireland at the time (there was a lot of bombings) Although I don't think it's banned anymore in the UK (changing times)
@@anthonygordon9483 look up The Troubles (Ireland). Thatcher had let loose the dogs (and allowed a lot of abuse to happen) only a single-digit number of years before this episode aired. That entire subject "was sensitive" to put it mildly in the UK. Rather than banning the episode, they banned the pertinent section; but only in the UK. Viewers elsewhere always saw the uncensored version live and in reruns.
I was going to comment on that. The initial airing and subsequent airings on Netflix do not ban this scene here in the States. I do not know why the U.K. would have issue with that “example”. This episode was written during the tail end of The Troubles, so it made sense to the writers that the dispute in Ireland would carry on for decades more. Having family in the Republic, who will be affected by the upcoming Brexit, now that’s a whole other matter.
I think GENE RODDENBERRY was still alive when this first aired in US\CAN and would have had a fit if they censored this out.It is an absolute truth and the difference between a terrorist and freedom fighter is blurred depending who's ideaology you support.A good example is the American armed freedom fighter in Afghanistan in the 80's who defeated the Soviet Union mainly with the use of US made and supplied STINGER MISSLES (A rocket propelled grenade basically) to which the multi-million dollar Russian helicopter gunships had little or no chance against.But now that the US is fighting many of the same Afghan Soldiers they are refered to as Terrorist!?To me ,the true Terrorists were the ones who were instrumental in the 911 attacks.With the possible exemption of the Pentagon,they targeted innocents including many woman and children.The Afghan fighters target other soldiers so are therefor not terrorists.Funny that they would ban this in England and Scotland,the truth must scare some of the government's there,becouse of the IRA I suspect !!
If the Irish unification does occur in 2024....then I think its only fair they put data on the new unified Irish flag. as it is clearly a direct result of him.
@@renerpho All irrelevant of course, certainly compared to the liklihood that 2023/4 is when the Arctic is expected to become ice-free during the summer season.
Sounds nice, but he never said that. Another case of fake quotes. Now wait for all the retards voting it up thinking it's genuine. Wait for the reply saying it's real....without any source of course.
@@flybeep1661 ..source… one example clip of a speech given by President Kennedy Delivered at the White House, Washington DC ….search for TH-cam clip of: March 13, 1962 - President John F. Kennedy at the First Anniversary of the ‘Alliance for Progress’ BTW, it is at the end of the clip. The full text can be found at the Kennedy Library, and the Library of Congress …of course, one can always call it a ‘fake’…
And in DS9 they told you what to think about it...okay if you're backed by the "good" worm hole aliens, bad if you're backed by the "bad" worm hole aliens. Something something...chosen one...by aliens. Sad trombone.
@@garrettdark5668 I mean, maybe they told YOU what to think. I just assumed they were presenting their argument through the lens of their situation, the context. In which I came to my own conclusions. And sometimes there are bad guys.
@@garrettdark5668 yeah I don't see that. There is contextual basis for all the scenerios and we are told what the characters think. You can still make up your own mind. The Terrorism that Maj. Kira did is different than what the maquis were doing, That's obvious. You have to decide who you route for.
If you’re referring to the Bajorans vs Cardassions then I think we need to remember that it’s not terrorism to kill someone who’s actively committing mass genocide/enslavement. There’s very clearly a perp and a victim in that situation.
If a remotely adult conversation like this happened in nutrek the crew would then cry it out for 10 minutes. The crew members of nutrek are too unstable to qualify for the Cadets, let alone being issued phasers. It's propaganda now like 90% of entertainment.
Aside from Picard saying "subscribe" and not *ascribe.... Kinda disappointed literally no one on set corrected this blatant error. I'd have thought both Spiner and Stewart would be well read enough to know the difference.
This is where Star Trek shines. Just a flowing scene with some out of plot context but bringing a sense that these characters are real people and just chat now and again about real things. I miss the old days.
So a bloody reunification possibly predicted by an American sci-fi program from the 80’s, will become that tv shows legacy?! Is that what Trek fans really want?
DS9 has just as many examples of this, with the main difference being that the characters are actually forced to make these choices in life or death situations with real consequences, as opposed to the constant holier than thou attitude of TNG era Federation.
The Bajorans were occupied and they targeted the Cardassian military and government, civilians were just unfortunate casualties. Many modern terrorists strictly target civilians and their sole objective is to create fear. I think the difference between freedom fighters and terrorists is more than just in the eye of the beholder.
@@songcramp66 Yep. Basically the Bajorans were insurgents, rebels vs the collaborator government and the cardassian occupation. I guess they can be compared to the French Resistance imo. Especially as the Cardassians were clearly evil using death camps and strip mining, looting etc.
Damn, that's deep. That is but one example of what made Next Generation so good. This is the kind of Star Trek that I want to see and experience once more. Take notes, Kurtzman.
They could never write a character as clever as Data today, his childlike wonder really lead the writers to cool topics and ways to look at things. Today to have comedic lines they wouldn't know how to write him.
@Paul Thomas My thoughts exactly, but just watch Discovery that's basically what's happening lol. They have lost all the charm and witt TNG had. It's Super-trek now, right down to iron suits and super hero Mary Sue characters.
@@doctorfunkshock they got lucky with me, I had no interest in watching Discovery after Picard and did just to see how bad it was. Never again. I haven't bothered with season 3, I watched enough to have my own opinion and it's much worse than the "trolls" are making it sound online. and that's the power of math.
Hmmmm... they haven't said anything about Irish reunification as yet, have they? They did have the Albuquerque Isotopes baseball team, which exists entirely because of that episode!
I saw this clip randomly alongside an ad for discovery season 3 disc set. This one clip contains better and more intelligent writing than a season's worth of that show.
I wish nuTrek would give us a season of just Picard revisiting old worlds. We'd see the changes, his reactions, and hear his musings if his past decisions were correct.
@@cassidystarchild7907 I haven't seen this at all in PIC. It's all been about the stupid android conspiracy stuff. The Romulan relocation stuff was really just a small bit just to get that dumb samurai on ship.
Stewart is too busy making sure Picard pays for all that white privilege he exercised during his time in Starfleet. It's his attempt to relieve himself of his horrible case of TDS.
@@mechanomics2649 in the context of the world in general, maybe, but in the context of Star Trek specifically he's absolutely right, there's a reason people are still watching TNG, 30 years later.
@@mid-nite_drive-thru I get an itemised list of every scheduled, unauthorised and stealth launch worldwide on a weekly basis. The 1996 listing still has the dot matrix print spools on the side (cute), so I know ;)
@@ACtheLegend Rubbish. If you were privy to every launch made by any state (friend or foe), you would not be free to discuss such listings on some random youtube channel, nor would you be doing your country any favors by MAKING such a revelation, even on such a seemingly innocuous platform. That said, if you ARE telling the truth, perhaps the team dispatched to contain the leak will hearken to your cries of "I didn't know! I swear!" before tying up another "loose end". Good luck.
I see people say things like this but I was around when this show came out. You think People hate Discovery? This show was vilified for most of 3 seasons and almost died countless times. It wasn't truly appreciated until the Borg showed up. It's a Miracle it made it. People said it would NEVER be as appreciated as TOS. I imagine 20 years from now people will be pointing out the better parts of of Disco and its contributions to Trek just like you are now with TNG. I love all things Trek, so I'm already there without all the whinging. Dont like it? Dont watch it. Let the rest of us enjoy it.
@@wingman0736 Great advice, badass, advice which many have taken in light of std's dire viewing figures. Crap stories, crap acting and crap dialogue, it's just crap. Compare it to quality sci fi like the expanse and std looks like bargain bin trash.
@@wingman0736 No Discovery is not Star Trek because Star Trek is about exploration, science and hope for the future. Discovery has none of these qualities and why does it have to shove diversity in viewers faces? Star Trek has always had subtle diversity work to positive effect so there is no need to point out how gay/transgender/black a character is.
This is the sort of moral quandry that I miss from NuTrek! Taking the big ticket items and grappling with them honestly, in a way that doesn't shoehorn into only one biased conclusion.
Well that’s because the people making the new Star Trek series subscribe to a worldview in which they feel like they’ve resolved the problems, so rather than stay neutral on them, they act as though their opinion on the matter is the indisputable right one
Yes, but that is why we have the second amendment , in case our government becomes tyrannical, as it is now under Biden. Still not to the point of armed revolution, but if he continues with his forced papers for vaccination, and letting illegals with covid to come across the border, and ship all over the country and drop them off anywhere he wants which he is doing and it is proven he is doing it. And then wants to lock us down again, so more businesses can fail, then I cannot see but an armed revolution coming . Especially with Nancy creating her SS group called the capital police force that she has already expanding with the bill that has already passed I the house, and now is in the Senate. And the capital police are not any other police force. Being part of the legislature , they don't have to fallow such thing haebeus corpus , the 4tj amendment , or get warrents to arrest you. And they already have all your information. They are already building a facility in Florida and in California. And 7 other states are next. Why are they already building if it hasn't been passed in the Senate? Because Biden is going to use an executive order to do it.
Dude? Have you even seen Discovery? The first season is just pure questioning of moral universalisms in regard to federation principles. If you are into that kind of thing, there’s no reason why you wouldn’t like it.
Sir Patrick Stewart is an amazing, classically trained actor. I once saw him perform "The Christmas Carol" totally alone in a theater of the round. No doubt he is not only a true professional, he is a genius!
Never was a Trekkie. Started watching TNG on Netflix. I’m hooked. This show is totally amazing, and has many real life lessons in it. I love it! Are the other offshoots of Star Trek similar?
Voyager, Deep Space 9 and Enterprise are definitely the same level of quality as TNG in many aspects. The stories in Voyager tend to be a bit weaker, but the moral questions and character development are the absolute best. Enterprise already started to show a downfall in the overall atmosphere of Trek, but the moral aspects are still very well outlined, and in my opinion they pictured that era very well. Don't miss out on any of them, they're worth watching.
Similar but not as good. Voyager and DS9 are worth the watch. Enterprise was good too. I like Bakula. The new stuff apparently sucks. Discovery and Picard.
@@renaissancestatesman I'd disagree with that. I was thoroughly impressed by the first season of 'Discovery' (I did watch the first episode of 'Picard'... and was totally bored by it.)
As long as you don't watch STD (aptly abbreviated in my opinion) and STP (or, as I like to call it SToP meaning SToP watching it), you can't go wrong with any of the shows. DS9 was my personal favorite just because of it's darker undertones, but TNG, DS9, Voyager and Enterprise all had absolutely fantastic episodes and some truly terrible ones as well.
its actually neat that data's point gets sort of unconsciously brought up again & pointed out as effective and sometimes necessary with the bajoran rebellion and then independence later on in tngs run and all the way through ds9
STD would have gone on a long rant about how we need to love each other in the face of terrorism & cry 5 times during it & totally miss the point of what Trek is about: the ability to think for yourself.
An emotional breakdown/intervention in every scene is a very corporate media take on 'giving modern audiences what they want'. It's super grating once you notice it.
@Jorj I saw the very first episode of Star Trek the next generation at State Police headquarters. I had a friend that worked the night shift as a dispatcher. They had a television set in the communications radio room.
Answer me this: Why is it in the history of the world only 1 Revolution left the people freer than they were before said revolution while the rest the people ended up in a more tyrannical and oppressive situation than the one they just "freed" themselves from? Can you explain that? In case you're wondering the American Revolution is the only revolution where the people ended up being actually free. Something tells me you're going to disagree. Also, the North won the American Civil War and ended up not only preserving the Union but freed the slaves in the process. So how can the winning side(the South were known as the Rebels or Johnny Reb) of a "revolution"(if you want to call it that) became even freer?
@@Rockhound6165 off the top of my head, the French revolution. India, depending on if you count sweeping largely nonviolent protests as a revolution. Vietnam.
@@Rockhound6165 Which people in America ended up free as a result of the revolutionary war? Women, black people, and poor people were still in the same condition post-war than pre-war. The only reason the American revolutionary war happened was the taxation on everything from the crown was predominantly hurting plantation owners and rich white men in the colonies. And they didn't end up freer as a result of the war, they just ended up able to keep more of their wealth.
@@flyingpaladin617 yet they couldn't beat Vietnam or. Afghanistan. We need a kill them all attitude and the will to follow through on it. And I mean the entire damn country every time we get provoked into war.
I would have answered that with - "Yes terrorism is good at effecting political change, just as bank robbery is good at increasing one's wealth". It's a moral question, not one of effectiveness.
@@frankb3347 Yes. because in the end they founded themselves upon the soil of another civilization who had to suffer to great lengths for the greed and expansion of those who rebelled. British ain't the saints either, but there is no question of morality when you build your life upon someone elses misery.
@Frank B All war is immoral. Even when we have to fight Nazis we are balancing a smaller evil up against a greater one. But let’s not pretend that killing is glorious or heroic. It’s always a result of humanity failing
@@frankb3347 I don't call "rebels" or "insurrectionists" terrorists (yes I know they are usually referred to that way by those in power at the time), provided they fight against only the regime and its uniformed agents. IMO the only useful definition of terrorist is someone who specifically targets civilians in order to get THEM to pressure their leaders to accede to demands. The Iraqis and Afghans who attacked Yank soldiers? Not terrorists in my book. They were just trying to repel what they saw as foreign invaders and occupiers. But Osama in New York? Hamas and Islamic Jihad targeting civilian neighbourhoods, discos, restaurants, buses? Filthy terrorists IMO.
According to a 2007 BBC report, at the time the episode had “never been shown on terrestrial TV in UK or in the Republic of Ireland and initial airings on Sky One were edited”. Entertainment.ie corroborates assertions that the episode was rarely broadcast in the United Kingdom and Ireland, noting: “the BBC specifically pulled the episode on its first-run transmission in 1990,” and that RTE, the broadcast organization in Ireland “reportedly never screened the episode”, even by 2020.
considering that most people, north and south despise the PIRA, i doubt that this would have made any difference to anything. People in the US care more about it than people here do.
@@anonymous2513456 No surprises there. US is where the fundraising is done. Beautiful country. Heading back as soon as pandemic sorts out...probably in 2024!
It was about philosophy, but it offered the cheap, easy, effort-free instant gratification of letting us pretend we understood morality, or engineering, or math at the top levels. Of course that's a crowd-pleaser, letting people think they can participate meaningfully in the top levels of subjects that are well beyond our reach.
@@fakshen1973 that's exactly the point, violence very much solved the conflict between Carthage and Rome (the city fathers were presumably killed). The rest of the quote is: "I was not making fun of you personally; I was heaping scorn on an inexcusably silly idea - a practice I shall always follow. Anyone who clings to the historically untrue and thoroughly immoral doctrine that violence never settles anything I would advise to conjure up the ghosts of Napoleon Bonaparte and the Duke of Wellington and let them debate it. The ghost of Hitler could referee and the jury might well be the Dodo, the Great Auk, and the Passenger Pigeon. Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor, and the contrary opinion is wishful thinking at its worst. Breeds that forget this basic truth have always paid for it with their lives and their freedoms."
THIS is how you bring controversy into these shows. Introduce the question, provide points both for and against to promote thought, and simply leave it to the viewer to draw conclusions
"As soon as men decide that all means are permitted to fight an evil, then their good becomes indistinguishable from the evil that they set out to destroy." -Christopher Dawson
@@darthhodges let's say we're realists and know that what works in the philosophical world, doesn't always work as intended in the real world with real people. Example, the nuking of Japan. There was only 2 outcomes towards the end. The Japanese would not surrender. This was almost a holy war to them as they revered their emperor. Every man, women and child were being taught to fight to the death to prepare for our invasion. Our choices were drop the bombs and hope those in power saw reason, or invade and kill millions while salting the Earth. The world isn't a perfect place. It never will be. Live in your fantasy world if it helps you sleep at night.
The "successful terrorism" examples quoted, are actually armed rebellions that included acts of terrorism. That does not make terrorism moral, just one more tool for those would would choose to go there. The USA independence rebellion also included some acts of terrorism on both sides, as did the civil war, Indian wars, WWII and etc, back to the dawn of human conflict. Sometimes the line drawn between warfare and terrorism is blurred. Picard could have done better. So, is terrorism ever a legitimate tool? - I don't think so, killing innocents is not acceptable for a moral person. But very many would disagree.
Very well said. Considering the massive number of civilians killed during World War II, one could consider such a war to be pure terrorism. Most of the people killed during World War II were non-combatants -- civilians.
it depends on the side that wins, if it yours it freedom fighters who did what was necessary if it the other your terrorists that committed unforgivable atrocities
@@christopherthorkon3997 the tactics used by the Allies regarding Dresden , absolutely were the same as terrorism (funneling civilian survivors into 1 place and then bombing it), of course many acts on both sides could be looked at with this lens (and I think should be regardless of side)
So according to Star Trek lore, 2024 is going to be a landmark year. We'll see the Unification of Ireland, the Bell Riots in San Francisco, and the rise of Neo-Trotskyists in France. In Baseball, we'll see the first solar system-wide batting champion, Buck Bokai.
At least it is better than in Earth Final Conflict when the opposing groups in Northern Ireland (republicans & loyalists) abruptly decided there was no longer any reason to fight each other when the ( _apparently_ benevolent) Aliens arrived.
The point is that just because something is effective doesn't mean it's good or right or justified, even if the outcome seems favourable. In other words, the ends don't justify the means.
That is part of it, the rest though is one mans freedom fighter is another mans terrorists. Whoever caused 911 were terrorists, then The UK and the USA acted like terrorists in Iraq and Afghanistan, thousands more killed for nothing.
I think it's the ambiguity of morality that's being discussed, any point you read into it is your own: it's telling you nothing, the scene merely asks a question. You've answered it with your point of view, but the scene itself took none.
Depends on the ends. When terrorism is the ONLY method available to save your family's lives will you choose to let them die? I won't, I'll steam their babies alive like lobsters if it saves MY people from the fascists. I'll feel bad that it was necessary. But it WAS necessary. Do your duty. Execute fascists.
I think is going to take something pretty spectacular to unwind that ball of pain. Exceptional courage on all fronts, Exceptional levels of social change and a -lot- less fucking about by external forces. So, yes, if such an event happens I would expect it to echo down human history. They managed the Good Friday Agreement, and many never believed that would ever happen: so there is hope.
this, I fear is what has happened in Israel. And here in the States with some people. They constantly live in a state of fear. Worried that someone is out to get them. A lot of it a result of the media they consume and their desire to have their biases and fears confirmed. It makes them dangerous and vulnerable to manipulation/exploitation by the media owners. Doubleplusungood when the media has political ties.
Thanks for this. Since watching this clip I grabbed the box set and started watching the whole series. That was a few weeks ago now up to season 3. Quality stuff!
It wasn't banned. I saw this when it was first broadcast in the UK, and it included the mention of Irish reunification. It was not banned. Click bait title? 🤔
@JeremyCuddles it might have gotten less airtime post 9/11 but as it dates from January 1990 it would have received plenty before then. Plus it’s still in streaming lineups, so it’s quite a different category than something actually banned like Family Guy’s Partial Terms of Endearment
Came back to this just to point out that in our current timeline, it’s not impossible to point out this could happen next. The 2020s are just full of chaos
@beans oof I hope for Ireland to be one island with one united people. BUT... The Irish goverment is deep in woke letfist nonsence. Political correctnes is the law. No freedom of speech what so ever. Being proud of being Irish is considered a hate crime torwards minorities. An attemp to make the island as a whole would be consitered a nationalistic righ-wing move. Unthinkable to the leftist rulig elite. MAYBE if england had w super weak prime minister like Teresa May this could have a shot. But I doubt it. The english are conquering dicks. In WWII they wanted everyone to help them and never gave anything or promised anything in return. They officialy TWICE asked Ireland for help, to break their neutrality and could not even think of giving northern Ireland back as recompence. Polish pilots in the RAF fought and died for them and after the war were refused citizenship... Deported to Poland that was agreed to be taken by Stalin...
There are different kinds of terrorism as well. ALL freedom fighters and rebels get called terrorists by the government they oppose, whether they actually are terrorists or not. The line between an asymmetric rebel and a terrorist is what their targets are and what their motivation is - a rebel targets the government to bring it down. The rebel might target the families of officials, but ONLY because they are connected that way. A terrorist is the only profession where you can miss your target 100% of the time and be 100% successful - the people a terrorist kills aren't his targets, they're collateral damage. The targets of a terrorist are all the people so terrified (see what I did there?) that they will be next, that they change their behavior to what the terrorist wants. If a terrorist ever did kill his actual targets, his mission would fail.
@@chewcab8008 Nationalism was a late 18th century invention that has brought nothing but misery in the 19th and especially in the 20th century. Get a history book.
@MGTOW Paladin Then why did they break in then? Lol. "We're just going to riot and storm the capitol to try to stop a legitimate election. But we don't really care about it." LMAO! Sure, pal. Riiight...
@MGTOW Paladin Dude, i LIVE just outside DC. And yes, i HAVE been to the Capitol before. Which is how I know that your entire point is total horseshit. If you had any idea what the hell you were talking about, you'd know that legitimate visitors are not just allowed in the front door of the capitol. There is a visitor entrance and visitor center entrance that visitors MUST enter through (this is UNDER the main entrance). Then they go through security checks (bags checked and searched, etc). And you MUST get passes BEFOREHAND if you wish to go to certain areas. So, yes... Anyone who just bypasses the established and required visitor entrance and security is BREAKING IN. And by the way, Einstein.... The capitol building has been CLOSED TO VISITORS FOR WELL OVER A YEAR DUE TO COVID RESRTICTIONS. As have most federal buildings in DC. So again... no visitors were allowed. And the rioters were BREAKING IN. www.uscp.gov/visiting-capitol-hill/visitor-information/building-access-hours
This is how wise people discuss topics. They ask questions, they propose solutions, they critique weaknesses and acknowledge strengths, and they surmise how likely it is for us to be certain of any one conclusion. You don’t just give someone an answer and brow beat them until they agree with you. That’s not how a society becomes wise.
That's true of some questions, like this one. That's not true of dumb questions, like whether the earth is flat. A society that's forever "debating" questions of objective, manifest reality is a society that has descended into a chaotic morass in which we can take no action because debate is never over. Your very phrase "become wise" necessitates arriving at at least some conclusions.
@@fiandrhi, every generation needs to debate previous generations’ assumptions. Granted, that doesn’t mean the debate needs to be long. If the debate is lopsided, such as in flat-earth, the debate will be short and decisive.
@@AV57 That's fine. The problem I have is that insisting on infinite debate is often used as an excuse to delay action. Yes, science is never finally "settled", but that fact can be leveraged as an excuse to endlessly delay. Truth in science is approached asymptotically. The distance between our understanding and some "absolute truth" is always non-zero in science. Science must work with error bars. But people are wired to prefer religions and ideologies, which always claim "certainty". Also, laymen participate in pseudo-debate which they're comically unqualified to do. Laymen should look to what most scientists are saying, not as an authority, but simply as what is most likely to be true. Science isn't religion or ideology. It's a kind of (albeit imperfect) guidance system. At some point we need to take the guidance and head off in the direction indicated.
LOL no, it's not. Have a look at recent polls, no one wants a ui, the south dont want it because they cant afford it and NI don't want it because of the drop in living standards. A ui is just a dream for stupid paddys that they'll live and die with :-)
So having characters showing emotion or being in a healthy same sex relationship etc etc is "beat you over the head" but tackling another real world in terrorism, war, and peace isn't? Way to miss the point there dude... ✌️
Hey dummies. Read the description before posting your worthless same comment again and again and again, each time thinking you're the very first person to be dumb enough to post it.
You realize people do that to bother you, because you came off as a complete prick in your description, right?
Man, ain't nobody got time for that
Make it so
before calling people dumb, maybe don't use such a general title. could be seen as clickbait
@@khlavkhalash5215 I adjusted the title
I love the fact that they just leave it unresolved; they don't end this clip with platitudes or moral universalisms. TNG at its finest.
Exactly. They don't tell you what to think. They help you to think yourself.
@@joeybloey3631 It's been a while since I read his biography, but I'm *pretty sure* Roddenberry wasn't adding dog whistles in TNG to promote the insurrectionist interpretation of the 2nd Amendment.
@@joeybloey3631 dude, this is a Star Trek video.
@monkeys I don't see how it's too pretentious, considering it's a straightforward way of saying that TNG was *not* pretentious. I'm fairly certain I didn't use any words above the 5th grade level =)
That said, you'd be hard pressed to deny that an amoral, anti-science demagogue and advocate of toxic reactionary populism doesn't make frequent use of dog whistles. It kind of comes with the territory. Culture wars and xenophobia are/were the calling cards.
It's how stark trek use to be: presents the argument. Not preaching at you
This episode did exactly what it was intended to do. 32 years later people are still discussing it and the issue.
Streisand effect.
A year for every county
@@TJDious I don't think that applies here. At the time in the 90s when "the troubles" were still in full flow, I (living in the UK) had no idea about this episode. It was only later once it was "unbanned" that the mainstream* discussions began - at least in the country where it was removed from broadcast.
* I'm sure some of the die hard fans knew, but this was before most people were on the web, and way before TH-cam.
Meanwhile with current Star Trek the plot is so poorly conceived, sanitized and irrelevant that you've all but forgotten it after 32 minutes.
@@StuartQuinn Still though, it's more known for the attempt to suppress it than it would have been if it had been let be.
It is now 2024. It is at last time for the Irish Unification
Darn. You beat me to it.
Its time for a new star trek NG series.
Have you not seen the literal cancer these made for modern audiences Devils produced? You can never go back home, dont believe me? Look no further than bad reboot's trek!
@@specialandroid1603nah star trek is dead
It's August 2024 and it's time to close the border and leave the EU.
You hear that Ireland, you've got three more years to get it together...
Only 29% of NI people want unification with RoI and to leave the U.K. as of 2020, so it ain’t happening!
@@eliminator74 we also don't want it in Ireland, when you poll with the inclusion of the cost of such a unification. Let the brits waste their money.
If it happens, it won’t be because of terrorism. It will be because Brexit turns out to be such a disaster that people in Northern Ireland want to get back into the EU via Irish reunification.
@@dansanger5340 Yeah 100% it won't be sectarian violence that unites Ireland, it will be the economic reality of cutting NI off from the Republic and the EU
@@dansanger5340 So let ‘em. The whole EU thing was a bad idea anyway.
This is just vintage TNG. Debate a huge question, acknowledge how difficult it is, and leave us still thinking about it decades later. Still the best Star Trek, and it's not even close.
Well for content like this, yes but DS9 was more entertaining
I am confused on how this was banned when it aired before 9/11. I still think TNG made a good point. In compared to 9/11 where they terrorized simply because of religion. And a radical religion at that. I don't think Star Trek would condone any terrorization in the name of any religion. What Data was talking about was basic moral, human and civil rights. Two completely different things. The Boston Tea attack was a terrorist attack. The people who did it dressed up as Native Americans. Fun Fact, there was a actual group called The Son's of Liberty based on the Title Metal Gear Solid Son's of Liberty. They existed in the 1770s and was a propaganda rebellion group who help start the Revolutionary war. This arguement along is why Democrats want to get rid of Gittonmo bay. Simply for any person can lose their basic civil rights simply because what they did was considered a act of terror. We can also blur the lines on what is considered terrorism and what is not.
@@anthonygordon9483 it was only banned in the UK, because of the problems in Ireland at the time (there was a lot of bombings)
Although I don't think it's banned anymore in the UK (changing times)
There are a lot of moments like that in TOS and Voyager too
@@anthonygordon9483 look up The Troubles (Ireland). Thatcher had let loose the dogs (and allowed a lot of abuse to happen) only a single-digit number of years before this episode aired. That entire subject "was sensitive" to put it mildly in the UK. Rather than banning the episode, they banned the pertinent section; but only in the UK. Viewers elsewhere always saw the uncensored version live and in reruns.
The time has come
It was only banned in the UK. Because of the part about the Irish reunification part. That part aired in the United States.
I was going to comment on that. The initial airing and subsequent airings on Netflix do not ban this scene here in the States. I do not know why the U.K. would have issue with that “example”. This episode was written during the tail end of The Troubles, so it made sense to the writers that the dispute in Ireland would carry on for decades more. Having family in the Republic, who will be affected by the upcoming Brexit, now that’s a whole other matter.
And Australia
It was also in the German version of the episode (although dubbed).
I think GENE RODDENBERRY was still alive when this first aired in US\CAN and would have had a fit if they censored this out.It is an absolute truth and the difference between a terrorist and freedom fighter is blurred depending who's ideaology you support.A good example is the American armed freedom fighter in Afghanistan in the 80's who defeated the Soviet Union mainly with the use of US made and supplied STINGER MISSLES (A rocket propelled grenade basically) to which the multi-million dollar Russian helicopter gunships had little or no chance against.But now that the US is fighting many of the same Afghan Soldiers they are refered to as Terrorist!?To me ,the true Terrorists were the ones who were instrumental in the 911 attacks.With the possible exemption of the Pentagon,they targeted innocents including many woman and children.The Afghan fighters target other soldiers so are therefor not terrorists.Funny that they would ban this in England and Scotland,the truth must scare some of the government's there,becouse of the IRA I suspect !!
i was wondering the same thing since i knew the scene like normal ... coming from germany it was not banned
If the Irish unification does occur in 2024....then I think its only fair they put data on the new unified Irish flag. as it is clearly a direct result of him.
2024 will be a busy year. The Bell Riots of September 2024... Student protests and political upheaval in France... And then Irish Unification.
@@renerpho All irrelevant of course, certainly compared to the liklihood that 2023/4 is when the Arctic is expected to become ice-free during the summer season.
Brent Spiner’s reaction to his face being put on a nations flag would be hilarious.
@@Deebz270 Yeah, I wish Star Trek had predicted *that*.
brilliant
I always enjoyed Data’s confused expressions at the end of these conversations. So relatable, but still android-ish.
I am a qualified lesbian
I prefer his Appalachian character look in night court lol
He's filing it in his Trash. Not deleted, but not useful.
@@adamgrubb5552 I am a woman
@@yellowsquaremusic1598 I am toilet trained
The best part is that Picard doesn't even try to answer it. If this was made in 2021 it would have been handled far worse.
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
― John F. Kennedy
Sounds nice, but he never said that. Another case of fake quotes. Now wait for all the retards voting it up thinking it's genuine. Wait for the reply saying it's real....without any source of course.
@@flybeep1661 ..source… one example clip of a speech given by President Kennedy
Delivered at the White House, Washington DC
….search for TH-cam clip of:
March 13, 1962 - President John F. Kennedy at the First Anniversary of the ‘Alliance for Progress’
BTW, it is at the end of the clip.
The full text can be found at the Kennedy Library, and the Library of Congress
…of course, one can always call it a ‘fake’…
That's the best interpretation of Data's 'confusion'..
It maybe a false quote, but the statement is correct.
@@flybeep1661 FALSE. Source: Kennedy Library, a frequent question.
Love this TNG they let the audience think on the issue and never beat them over the head with empty virtue or lectures 👌🏼
True scifi
“That’s the power of math people!”
That line and the delivery of it is something of nightmares.
That may be how it ended up, but that's not how it began.
But i mean didnt they :/ ? this is a case where they didnt the rest of the show is a lot of "picard speech: this is right this is wrong"
@@anartismal sure but if you disagreed you could easily overlook it and move on to the next episode and it wasn’t a big deal.
And then came DS9 where discussing terrorism was unavoidable.
And in DS9 they told you what to think about it...okay if you're backed by the "good" worm hole aliens, bad if you're backed by the "bad" worm hole aliens. Something something...chosen one...by aliens. Sad trombone.
@@garrettdark5668 I mean, maybe they told YOU what to think. I just assumed they were presenting their argument through the lens of their situation, the context.
In which I came to my own conclusions. And sometimes there are bad guys.
@@garrettdark5668 I was thinking more along the lines of the Maquis, where things were a much more shade of gray.
@@garrettdark5668 yeah I don't see that. There is contextual basis for all the scenerios and we are told what the characters think. You can still make up your own mind. The Terrorism that Maj. Kira did is different than what the maquis were doing, That's obvious. You have to decide who you route for.
If you’re referring to the Bajorans vs Cardassions then I think we need to remember that it’s not terrorism to kill someone who’s actively committing mass genocide/enslavement.
There’s very clearly a perp and a victim in that situation.
Love the way Data always looked at Picard as the invincible father figure who knew everything.
And how the writers wished for the audience to do the same?
@@mid-nite_drive-thru absolutely :)
This one minute clip far exceeds anything NuTrek has given us in years!
Discovery is absolute shallow garbage. They should be ashamed but its a bunch of halfass actors enjoying attention and a paycheck. No integrity.
If a remotely adult conversation like this happened in nutrek the crew would then cry it out for 10 minutes. The crew members of nutrek are too unstable to qualify for the Cadets, let alone being issued phasers. It's propaganda now like 90% of entertainment.
Star Trek Continues is a 11 pt series with Kirk. You might want to check it out.
Here's the link to the star trek continues playlist: th-cam.com/play/PLhvh2eq-XLgqNxH6npvQxGxLCUHy90IpZ.html
Aside from Picard saying "subscribe" and not *ascribe....
Kinda disappointed literally no one on set corrected this blatant error. I'd have thought both Spiner and Stewart would be well read enough to know the difference.
This is where Star Trek shines.
Just a flowing scene with some out of plot context but bringing a sense that these characters are real people and just chat now and again about real things.
I miss the old days.
The Irish reunification, 2024. Mark your calendars.
So a bloody reunification possibly predicted by an American sci-fi program from the 80’s, will become that tv shows legacy?! Is that what Trek fans really want?
@@jlomesou Who said it would be bloody? The Soviet Union was swept away with the stroke of a pen.
@@jlomesou Yes, yes it is
Tiocfaidh ár lá
@@jlomesou hell yes
So ahead of its time, yet so relevant! This is why STNG was my favorite show!
@sean tellier You're a fascist.
DS9 has just as many examples of this, with the main difference being that the characters are actually forced to make these choices in life or death situations with real consequences, as opposed to the constant holier than thou attitude of TNG era Federation.
This is pretty much the exact moral conflict in DS-9 regarding the Bajoran freedom fighters.
Sickens me when low info plebs try to compare them to Antifa.
@@angermacfadden2702 do you call people low information when they disagree with you so you don't have to bother engaging with their point?
@@bowak No, I call them low info when they are...low info. Stop projecting:D
The Bajorans were occupied and they targeted the Cardassian military and government, civilians were just unfortunate casualties. Many modern terrorists strictly target civilians and their sole objective is to create fear. I think the difference between freedom fighters and terrorists is more than just in the eye of the beholder.
@@songcramp66 Yep. Basically the Bajorans were insurgents, rebels vs the collaborator government and the cardassian occupation. I guess they can be compared to the French Resistance imo. Especially as the Cardassians were clearly evil using death camps and strip mining, looting etc.
Damn, that's deep.
That is but one example of what made Next Generation so good. This is the kind of Star Trek that I want to see and experience once more.
Take notes, Kurtzman.
How's old Kurzman working out for you? (I'm an old school trekkie and I weep)
@@crystallineentity Kurtzman is working well enough for me to keep watching the older Star Trek shows.
They could never write a character as clever as Data today, his childlike wonder really lead the writers to cool topics and ways to look at things. Today to have comedic lines they wouldn't know how to write him.
True, and unfortunately sci-fi shows blatantly rip off his character.
I mean... Data's character progression was also found by accident.. yes it is clever, but it's not that easy.
@Paul Thomas My thoughts exactly, but just watch Discovery that's basically what's happening lol. They have lost all the charm and witt TNG had. It's Super-trek now, right down to iron suits and super hero Mary Sue characters.
@@JohnBelley86 Exactly. I don't watch Discovery. I won't give them my attention that they've abused.
@@doctorfunkshock they got lucky with me, I had no interest in watching Discovery after Picard and did just to see how bad it was. Never again. I haven't bothered with season 3, I watched enough to have my own opinion and it's much worse than the "trolls" are making it sound online. and that's the power of math.
Once the Simpsons predicts it, it'll become true.
Trump!!!🤬🤬
Hmmmm... they haven't said anything about Irish reunification as yet, have they?
They did have the Albuquerque Isotopes baseball team, which exists entirely because of that episode!
The Simpsons haven't predicted anything lmao
@@mechanomics2649 it's a joke. Calm down.
Matt Groening is a 33° Freemason so he should know.
Wow! Just listen to Data. If he said that in our current time Data would have been cancelled and the network stop this show.
“Irish unification of 2024”
Ironic that it’s now 2023 as of this comment! The future is now.
Come on Ireland, time to get out your little Armalites and make 2024 be remembered.
✊✊✊✊✊✊
I saw this clip randomly alongside an ad for discovery season 3 disc set. This one clip contains better and more intelligent writing than a season's worth of that show.
I bought Discovery season 1 DVD set used for cheap. Watched 3 episodes and returned it. What garbage!
@@kingcrimson234 Well, as long as you gave it a good go, huh, after all seasons1 and 2 of TNG were amazing...not.
i miss when star trek asked relevant questions without shitting on people
now thats the power of math FUCK YEAH
Lol Picard's like "yeah, messed up right? "
Whenever data gets stuck on something, just tell him it’s only human. He’s good.
Right? Worst cop-out answer ever.
What is with Data using contractions? "I'm, I've..." are we sure this isn't Lore?
I wish nuTrek would give us a season of just Picard revisiting old worlds. We'd see the changes, his reactions, and hear his musings if his past decisions were correct.
Uh they just did. Where have you been? His decisions and actions on the Enterprise have a direct correlation with the series.
@@cassidystarchild7907 I haven't seen this at all in PIC. It's all been about the stupid android conspiracy stuff. The Romulan relocation stuff was really just a small bit just to get that dumb samurai on ship.
oh god please don't, leave old tng alone! shortzman can only ruin it.
Stewart is too busy making sure Picard pays for all that white privilege he exercised during his time in Starfleet. It's his attempt to relieve himself of his horrible case of TDS.
@@bghoody5665
TDS is what trumptards have which is the only explanation for loving an obvious MORON TRAITOR SOCIOPATH.
366 days IRELAND 🇮🇪 (leap year will make all the difference) 🤣
What a great scene, should never have been cut. Fantastic dialogue from the writers.
This is from a finer day when we challenged our society to think for themselves rather than telling them what the MUST think.
Amen
If you think that earlier years were any more about challenging people to think for themselves than today, you really had your head in the sand.
@@mechanomics2649 in the context of the world in general, maybe, but in the context of Star Trek specifically he's absolutely right, there's a reason people are still watching TNG, 30 years later.
@@trainknut Indeed.
"I always thought the point of education was to teach people to think for themselves."
~Dead Poets Society
Pffft, given that we never launched Khan into space in 1996, we've already screwed up any possibility of any Trek history happening XD
They retconned it with novels. The IP got busy.
So far as you KNOW.
@@mid-nite_drive-thru I get an itemised list of every scheduled, unauthorised and stealth launch worldwide on a weekly basis. The 1996 listing still has the dot matrix print spools on the side (cute), so I know ;)
@@ACtheLegend Rubbish. If you were privy to every launch made by any state (friend or foe), you would not be free to discuss such listings on some random youtube channel, nor would you be doing your country any favors by MAKING such a revelation, even on such a seemingly innocuous platform.
That said, if you ARE telling the truth, perhaps the team dispatched to contain the leak will hearken to your cries of "I didn't know! I swear!" before tying up another "loose end". Good luck.
@@mid-nite_drive-thru the winky face implied a joke... just like your original statement was a joke because Khan is fictional, was that not clear? lol
The thing is this Jean-Luc, he's not confused.
Some where in the galactic distance, his ghost whispered to him...
Getting close to Irish Unification. Just 6 more years...
even closer now
*Puppet rubbing balloon slowly with his hand*
Soon (TM)
So Brexit lead to good things after all...
Even fucking closer this weekend
4 more years.
There is more quality in the dialogue and acting of this one minute clip than in three seasons of Discovery.
I see people say things like this but I was around when this show came out. You think People hate Discovery? This show was vilified for most of 3 seasons and almost died countless times. It wasn't truly appreciated until the Borg showed up. It's a Miracle it made it. People said it would NEVER be as appreciated as TOS. I imagine 20 years from now people will be pointing out the better parts of of Disco and its contributions to Trek just like you are now with TNG. I love all things Trek, so I'm already there without all the whinging. Dont like it? Dont watch it. Let the rest of us enjoy it.
@@wingman0736 Great advice, badass, advice which many have taken in light of std's dire viewing figures. Crap stories, crap acting and crap dialogue, it's just crap. Compare it to quality sci fi like the expanse and std looks like bargain bin trash.
@@wingman0736 No Discovery is not Star Trek because Star Trek is about exploration, science and hope for the future. Discovery has none of these qualities and why does it have to shove diversity in viewers faces? Star Trek has always had subtle diversity work to positive effect so there is no need to point out how gay/transgender/black a character is.
Data is so white, he’d be canceled today lol
@@ChrisPyle you lost dude?
John Brown 1859 Harpers Ferry. While it was technically terrorism, we see it as an act of rebellion against the tyranny of slavery.
This is the sort of moral quandry that I miss from NuTrek! Taking the big ticket items and grappling with them honestly, in a way that doesn't shoehorn into only one biased conclusion.
Well that’s because the people making the new Star Trek series subscribe to a worldview in which they feel like they’ve resolved the problems, so rather than stay neutral on them, they act as though their opinion on the matter is the indisputable right one
@@celtofcanaanesurix2245 And thats exactly why the new ones suck. Cant watch em.
This is why The Orville is fantastic
Yes, but that is why we have the second amendment , in case our government becomes tyrannical, as it is now under Biden. Still not to the point of armed revolution, but if he continues with his forced papers for vaccination, and letting illegals with covid to come across the border, and ship all over the country and drop them off anywhere he wants which he is doing and it is proven he is doing it. And then wants to lock us down again, so more businesses can fail, then I cannot see but an armed revolution coming . Especially with Nancy creating her SS group called the capital police force that she has already expanding with the bill that has already passed I the house, and now is in the Senate. And the capital police are not any other police force. Being part of the legislature , they don't have to fallow such thing haebeus corpus , the 4tj amendment , or get warrents to arrest you. And they already have all your information. They are already building a facility in Florida and in California. And 7 other states are next. Why are they already building if it hasn't been passed in the Senate? Because Biden is going to use an executive order to do it.
Dude? Have you even seen Discovery? The first season is just pure questioning of moral universalisms in regard to federation principles. If you are into that kind of thing, there’s no reason why you wouldn’t like it.
Sir Patrick Stewart is an amazing, classically trained actor. I once saw him perform "The Christmas Carol" totally alone in a theater of the round. No doubt he is not only a true professional, he is a genius!
Star Trek was much better when no-one was saying 'F**K' all the time.
PREACH!! True Star Trek ended with Enterprise.
when the mouse got involved Star Trek tanked
Never was a Trekkie. Started watching TNG on Netflix. I’m hooked. This show is totally amazing, and has many real life lessons in it. I love it! Are the other offshoots of Star Trek similar?
Voyager, Deep Space 9 and Enterprise are definitely the same level of quality as TNG in many aspects. The stories in Voyager tend to be a bit weaker, but the moral questions and character development are the absolute best. Enterprise already started to show a downfall in the overall atmosphere of Trek, but the moral aspects are still very well outlined, and in my opinion they pictured that era very well. Don't miss out on any of them, they're worth watching.
Similar but not as good. Voyager and DS9 are worth the watch. Enterprise was good too. I like Bakula. The new stuff apparently sucks. Discovery and Picard.
@@renaissancestatesman I'd disagree with that. I was thoroughly impressed by the first season of 'Discovery' (I did watch the first episode of 'Picard'... and was totally bored by it.)
Deep space 9 , get on that
As long as you don't watch STD (aptly abbreviated in my opinion) and STP (or, as I like to call it SToP meaning SToP watching it), you can't go wrong with any of the shows. DS9 was my personal favorite just because of it's darker undertones, but TNG, DS9, Voyager and Enterprise all had absolutely fantastic episodes and some truly terrible ones as well.
its actually neat that data's point gets sort of unconsciously brought up again & pointed out as effective and sometimes necessary with the bajoran rebellion and then independence later on in tngs run and all the way through ds9
STD would have gone on a long rant about how we need to love each other in the face of terrorism & cry 5 times during it & totally miss the point of what Trek is about: the ability to think for yourself.
An emotional breakdown/intervention in every scene is a very corporate media take on 'giving modern audiences what they want'. It's super grating once you notice it.
Then cancel the series because of a misused Klingonese pronoun, and the spreading of a new "Delta Quadrant"
The abbreviation of Discovery alone is funny as hell. STD! 😂😂😂
@@Cartman8402 I was wondering when people were gonna notice that. Ironically sexually transmitted diseases are more popular than Star Trek Discovery.
@@Bertiesghost Honestly. I've noticed the abbreviation since the first episode of season 1. 😂😂😂👍
poignant. We don't get writing like this anymore.
You didn't get it then either, in the UK at least.
The entire system is corrupt now. Truth has been separated from the system.
@@WDeranged q
@@HectorDiabolucus Talk daft.
I’m gonna go a step farther and say we do t get shows like this anymore. TNG was amazing all around.
I just found out a few days ago that this set was right next door to the Cheers set, and then Frasier.
Yup.
I watched all three on a 16" CRT TV, too.
Kelsey Grammar did a cameo in the Episode 'Cause and Effect'.
1992 Paramount stage 9.
@Jorj The character Morn, who's always on the sauce in Quarks bar in DS9, is an anagram of Norm from Cheers.
@Jorj I saw the very first episode of Star Trek the next generation at State Police headquarters. I had a friend that worked the night shift as a dispatcher. They had a television set in the communications radio room.
The difference betwixt a 'Civil War' and a 'Revolutionary War' is who won.
And also whether or not you were fighting to keep black people as property in the United States.
Answer me this: Why is it in the history of the world only 1 Revolution left the people freer than they were before said revolution while the rest the people ended up in a more tyrannical and oppressive situation than the one they just "freed" themselves from? Can you explain that? In case you're wondering the American Revolution is the only revolution where the people ended up being actually free. Something tells me you're going to disagree. Also, the North won the American Civil War and ended up not only preserving the Union but freed the slaves in the process. So how can the winning side(the South were known as the Rebels or Johnny Reb) of a "revolution"(if you want to call it that) became even freer?
@@Rockhound6165 off the top of my head, the French revolution. India, depending on if you count sweeping largely nonviolent protests as a revolution. Vietnam.
@@Rockhound6165 Which people in America ended up free as a result of the revolutionary war? Women, black people, and poor people were still in the same condition post-war than pre-war. The only reason the American revolutionary war happened was the taxation on everything from the crown was predominantly hurting plantation owners and rich white men in the colonies. And they didn't end up freer as a result of the war, they just ended up able to keep more of their wealth.
@@Emilio1985name me a freer country. Please, name me a freer country than the U.S.
One group's " terrorist" is another group's "liberator" or "hero"
Mujahideen was supplied by both China and USA to fought the USSR🤷♂️
@@songyani3992 I never understood why we were in trashcanistan if the Soviets couldn't kick their ass what makes you think our pansy military could
@@hankkingsley2976 America has the largest and most advanced military in the world. Not very pansy if you ask me
@@flyingpaladin617 yet they couldn't beat Vietnam or. Afghanistan. We need a kill them all attitude and the will to follow through on it. And I mean the entire damn country every time we get provoked into war.
@@hankkingsley2976 "Nuke the entire site from orbit--it's the only way to be sure"
I would have answered that with -
"Yes terrorism is good at effecting political change, just as bank robbery is good at increasing one's wealth".
It's a moral question, not one of effectiveness.
Amen!
What about the terrorists who founded the United States of America? Was their armed resistance to the British crown immoral?
@@frankb3347 Yes. because in the end they founded themselves upon the soil of another civilization who had to suffer to great lengths for the greed and expansion of those who rebelled. British ain't the saints either, but there is no question of morality when you build your life upon someone elses misery.
@Frank B All war is immoral. Even when we have to fight Nazis we are balancing a smaller evil up against a greater one. But let’s not pretend that killing is glorious or heroic. It’s always a result of humanity failing
@@frankb3347
I don't call "rebels" or "insurrectionists" terrorists (yes I know they are usually referred to that way by those in power at the time), provided they fight against only the regime and its uniformed agents.
IMO the only useful definition of terrorist is someone who specifically targets civilians in order to get THEM to pressure their leaders to accede to demands.
The Iraqis and Afghans who attacked Yank soldiers? Not terrorists in my book. They were just trying to repel what they saw as foreign invaders and occupiers.
But Osama in New York? Hamas and Islamic Jihad targeting civilian neighbourhoods, discos, restaurants, buses? Filthy terrorists IMO.
C'mon Ireland don't let us down. You've got just over 18 days left.
According to a 2007 BBC report, at the time the episode had “never been shown on terrestrial TV in UK or in the Republic of Ireland and initial airings on Sky One were edited”. Entertainment.ie corroborates assertions that the episode was rarely broadcast in the United Kingdom and Ireland, noting: “the BBC specifically pulled the episode on its first-run transmission in 1990,” and that RTE, the broadcast organization in Ireland “reportedly never screened the episode”, even by 2020.
considering that most people, north and south despise the PIRA, i doubt that this would have made any difference to anything. People in the US care more about it than people here do.
@@anonymous2513456 No surprises there. US is where the fundraising is done. Beautiful country. Heading back as soon as pandemic sorts out...probably in 2024!
Debate the hard ethical questions. Star Trek was as much about philosophy as it was space
It was from the first episode of the original.
It was about philosophy, but it offered the cheap, easy, effort-free instant gratification of letting us pretend we understood morality, or engineering, or math at the top levels.
Of course that's a crowd-pleaser, letting people think they can participate meaningfully in the top levels of subjects that are well beyond our reach.
Amazing how 2024 specifically came up at least 3 times in the TNG/Picard and DS9 trek series/universe.
How bizarre would it be if this actually happened in 2024? It's far from impossible.
Never say never. I wouldn’t be surprised.
Then Brent Spiner should be made the 'T-Shirt' of the new, unified Irish Parliament!
"My mother always told me that violence never solves anything."
"I'm sure the city fathers of Carthage would be glad to know that."
From Starship Troopers! The novel, not the awful movie.
The US War for Independence from Great Britain... they just threw water balloons until someone went home, right?
@@mikepattn well done. I see it wasn't another wasted year for Dubois afterall...
@@fakshen1973 that's exactly the point, violence very much solved the conflict between Carthage and Rome (the city fathers were presumably killed).
The rest of the quote is:
"I was not making fun of you personally; I was heaping scorn on an inexcusably silly idea - a practice I shall always follow. Anyone who clings to the historically untrue and thoroughly immoral doctrine that violence never settles anything I would advise to conjure up the ghosts of Napoleon Bonaparte and the Duke of Wellington and let them debate it. The ghost of Hitler could referee and the jury might well be the Dodo, the Great Auk, and the Passenger Pigeon. Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor, and the contrary opinion is wishful thinking at its worst. Breeds that forget this basic truth have always paid for it with their lives and their freedoms."
@@jefflace4949 the world today.
THIS is how you bring controversy into these shows. Introduce the question, provide points both for and against to promote thought, and simply leave it to the viewer to draw conclusions
"As soon as men decide that all means are permitted to fight an evil, then their good becomes indistinguishable from the evil that they set out to destroy."
-Christopher Dawson
Until that evil is destroyed.
@@smartfart9003 So you're an "ends justify the means" person?
@@darthhodges let's say we're realists and know that what works in the philosophical world, doesn't always work as intended in the real world with real people.
Example, the nuking of Japan. There was only 2 outcomes towards the end. The Japanese would not surrender. This was almost a holy war to them as they revered their emperor. Every man, women and child were being taught to fight to the death to prepare for our invasion. Our choices were drop the bombs and hope those in power saw reason, or invade and kill millions while salting the Earth.
The world isn't a perfect place. It never will be. Live in your fantasy world if it helps you sleep at night.
This seems like a wise quote until you ask who gets to define 'evil.'
@@Blackwind_Legacy Facts
"Irish unification of 2024" sounds like Data knew what he was talking about
To cite a British TV icon from the 90s: "Uh oh..... :D"
DATA: "Much of their behavioural norm would be defined by my program as unnecessary and unacceptable"
PICARD "By my _program_ as well, Data"
Love it
The "successful terrorism" examples quoted, are actually armed rebellions that included acts of terrorism. That does not make terrorism moral, just one more tool for those would would choose to go there. The USA independence rebellion also included some acts of terrorism on both sides, as did the civil war, Indian wars, WWII and etc, back to the dawn of human conflict. Sometimes the line drawn between warfare and terrorism is blurred. Picard could have done better.
So, is terrorism ever a legitimate tool? - I don't think so, killing innocents is not acceptable for a moral person. But very many would disagree.
Very well said. Considering the massive number of civilians killed during World War II, one could consider such a war to be pure terrorism. Most of the people killed during World War II were non-combatants -- civilians.
it depends on the side that wins, if it yours it freedom fighters who did what was necessary if it the other your terrorists that committed unforgivable atrocities
The thing is, what counts as terrorism is rather subjective. The difference between terrorists and freedom fighters is if they're on your side.
The winner of the conflict gets to rewrite the conditions and bundaries of terrorism and rebellion.
@@christopherthorkon3997 the tactics used by the Allies regarding Dresden , absolutely were the same as terrorism (funneling civilian survivors into 1 place and then bombing it), of course many acts on both sides could be looked at with this lens (and I think should be regardless of side)
So according to Star Trek lore, 2024 is going to be a landmark year. We'll see the Unification of Ireland, the Bell Riots in San Francisco, and the rise of Neo-Trotskyists in France. In Baseball, we'll see the first solar system-wide batting champion, Buck Bokai.
And, *2015* was Buck Bokai's rookie year. 😉
I'd say we're on track, at least for two of those. :D
We're going to need a bigger bat...
Don’t forget the 1996 Eugenics Wars which were mysteriously not happening in Los Angeles when the Voyager crew visited.
why didn't they predict the downfall of democracy tho?
Fission mailed.
God, I miss Star Trek.
At least it is better than in Earth Final Conflict when the opposing groups in Northern Ireland (republicans & loyalists) abruptly decided there was no longer any reason to fight each other when the ( _apparently_ benevolent) Aliens arrived.
Abd was tvst then it turns out they were warriors Abd the wars of earth were not good enough to let earth survive?
@@iceman34 Now, where did I put my universal translator ...
If that's the case, I wish the aliens would get a bloody move on! But with our luck they will be that lot from ID4.
TNG was so good at addressing social issues in a thoughtful way
Thinking about this a lot lately
The point is that just because something is effective doesn't mean it's good or right or justified, even if the outcome seems favourable. In other words, the ends don't justify the means.
That is part of it, the rest though is one mans freedom fighter is another mans terrorists. Whoever caused 911 were terrorists, then The UK and the USA acted like terrorists in Iraq and Afghanistan, thousands more killed for nothing.
Whenever i hear that phrase, i think of Bashir and Sloan arguing.
The means justify the ends.
I think it's the ambiguity of morality that's being discussed, any point you read into it is your own: it's telling you nothing, the scene merely asks a question. You've answered it with your point of view, but the scene itself took none.
Depends on the ends. When terrorism is the ONLY method available to save your family's lives will you choose to let them die? I won't, I'll steam their babies alive like lobsters if it saves MY people from the fascists. I'll feel bad that it was necessary. But it WAS necessary. Do your duty. Execute fascists.
the irish have a year.
And speaking of Ireland, if were this far in the future and it’s one of data’s examples, it must be a DOOZY
I think is going to take something pretty spectacular to unwind that ball of pain. Exceptional courage on all fronts, Exceptional levels of social change and a -lot- less fucking about by external forces. So, yes, if such an event happens I would expect it to echo down human history. They managed the Good Friday Agreement, and many never believed that would ever happen: so there is hope.
"It's over Finn! I have the high ground!"
"Y O U U N D E R E S T I M A T E M Y P O W E R"
"Political power flows from the phase emitter of a phaser." doesn't quite roll off the tongue.
On the other hand, electromagnetic power *does* flow from the phase emitter of a phaser.
"When chasing monsters beware not to become a monster yourself. When you gaze long into the abyss the abyss gazes also into you." - Nitzsche -
this, I fear is what has happened in Israel. And here in the States with some people. They constantly live in a state of fear. Worried that someone is out to get them. A lot of it a result of the media they consume and their desire to have their biases and fears confirmed. It makes them dangerous and vulnerable to manipulation/exploitation by the media owners. Doubleplusungood when the media has political ties.
@@Hobodeluxe960 LOL, what? Israel doesn't chase monsters since Eichmann.
"Don't put your faith in revolutions, boy. They always come around again. That's why they're called 'revolutions'" - Sam Vimes -
@@Foxstab you don't see their Lebensraum as being just a little Nazi-ish?
Yeah, Israel just oppresses. How are the Palestinians monsters?
Oh, it was banned in the UK.
Yes, the episode was dropped on the first run because the IRA were still active.
And by the Republic of Ireland.
Thanks for this. Since watching this clip I grabbed the box set and started watching the whole series. That was a few weeks ago now up to season 3. Quality stuff!
Data: Come out you black and tans.
Picard: *Screams in British and surrenders in French*
Data: *That weird head click he does when studying something*
It wasn't banned. I saw this when it was first broadcast in the UK, and it included the mention of Irish reunification.
It was not banned.
Click bait title? 🤔
Nor in Canada
@JeremyCuddles it might have gotten less airtime post 9/11 but as it dates from January 1990 it would have received plenty before then. Plus it’s still in streaming lineups, so it’s quite a different category than something actually banned like Family Guy’s Partial Terms of Endearment
No you didn't. It was banned in the UK.
@JeremyCuddles yes this was banned before 9/11 because of 9/11, very cool time traveler
@@NoumenalSoup he was talking about the time of upload idiot.
Ahh, has this ever become a salient point again. I wish it hadn't.
TNG is the best TV series ever aired.
Star Trek still giving life lessons
when all peaceful methods have been foreclosed, the rub.
Aw fuck lads looks like we need to get our muskets from the loft and invade the North. We don't want Star Trek to be wrong, do we?
The UK would literally steam roll Ireland's military
@@the98themperoroftheholybri33 You may have taken the comment a little too seriously
@@cld244 irish people need to be reminded Britain defends the British
@@the98themperoroftheholybri33 Calm down.
@@the98themperoroftheholybri33 I looked at Wikipedia, apparently only half of Northern Ireland's population considers themselves British.
Came back to this just to point out that in our current timeline, it’s not impossible to point out this could happen next. The 2020s are just full of chaos
August 2024.
Belfast... send them packing!
4 more years til Ireland Unifies
Might actually happen when you think about it
@beans oof I hope for Ireland to be one island with one united people. BUT... The Irish goverment is deep in woke letfist nonsence. Political correctnes is the law. No freedom of speech what so ever. Being proud of being Irish is considered a hate crime torwards minorities. An attemp to make the island as a whole would be consitered a nationalistic righ-wing move. Unthinkable to the leftist rulig elite. MAYBE if england had w super weak prime minister like Teresa May this could have a shot. But I doubt it. The english are conquering dicks. In WWII they wanted everyone to help them and never gave anything or promised anything in return. They officialy TWICE asked Ireland for help, to break their neutrality and could not even think of giving northern Ireland back as recompence. Polish pilots in the RAF fought and died for them and after the war were refused citizenship... Deported to Poland that was agreed to be taken by Stalin...
@@erykrejner2528 yeah you really sound like you want unity.
THREE!
@@erykrejner2528
Robert Heinlein answered that question in (I think it was) The Moon is a Harsh Mistress. Or Starship Troopers.
Been thinking a lot about this clip lately.
Just another powerful reminder of how intellectually advanced TNG was.
There are different kinds of terrorism as well. ALL freedom fighters and rebels get called terrorists by the government they oppose, whether they actually are terrorists or not. The line between an asymmetric rebel and a terrorist is what their targets are and what their motivation is - a rebel targets the government to bring it down. The rebel might target the families of officials, but ONLY because they are connected that way.
A terrorist is the only profession where you can miss your target 100% of the time and be 100% successful - the people a terrorist kills aren't his targets, they're collateral damage. The targets of a terrorist are all the people so terrified (see what I did there?) that they will be next, that they change their behavior to what the terrorist wants. If a terrorist ever did kill his actual targets, his mission would fail.
The fact that TNG has mentioned Irish unification has made my day. 🇮🇪
Excellent. We look forward to welcoming you back into the United Kingdom in three years time.
@@williambutcher2125 Dude I was born in England, but my family are Irish. Don't give me that passive-aggressiveness.
Remind me ... which ones are the nominal Catholics and which ones are the nominal Protestants? I pray for revival for the whole lot of ya.
@@AllAmericanGuyExpert The troubles ended years ago. I'd say Ireland is very peaceful.
The Irish reunification of 2024. Lol
@@ImAmirus Wont happen.
@@ImAmirus Lol canceling brexit would be a step back in Irish reunification.
@@ImAmirus Ireland is not part of Britain
It's not funny. It is just another example of the insane levels of ignorance found in the U.S.
@@chewcab8008
Nationalism was a late 18th century invention that has brought nothing but misery in the 19th and especially in the 20th century. Get a history book.
Oh, the description says "in the UK." I was about to post that this clip is exactly as I remember it on the show.
HOLY FUCKING SHIT
A GUY ACTUALLY READ THE DESCRIPTION
I'M SO PROUD OF YOU SIR
Is it just me or is it somehow strange the algorithm brought this up in these times?
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, make violent revolution inevitable - JFK
In today's slang, we call "those who", "Trumptards", aka The American Taliban
@@thefuppits Soyboy, Maybe some of those "trumptards" will come for you.
@@dxgi3737 they couldn't even hold the capital. What's he got to worry about.
@MGTOW Paladin Then why did they break in then? Lol.
"We're just going to riot and storm the capitol to try to stop a legitimate election. But we don't really care about it." LMAO! Sure, pal. Riiight...
@MGTOW Paladin Dude, i LIVE just outside DC. And yes, i HAVE been to the Capitol before. Which is how I know that your entire point is total horseshit.
If you had any idea what the hell you were talking about, you'd know that legitimate visitors are not just allowed in the front door of the capitol. There is a visitor entrance and visitor center entrance that visitors MUST enter through (this is UNDER the main entrance). Then they go through security checks (bags checked and searched, etc). And you MUST get passes BEFOREHAND if you wish to go to certain areas.
So, yes... Anyone who just bypasses the established and required visitor entrance and security is BREAKING IN.
And by the way, Einstein.... The capitol building has been CLOSED TO VISITORS FOR WELL OVER A YEAR DUE TO COVID RESRTICTIONS. As have most federal buildings in DC. So again... no visitors were allowed. And the rioters were BREAKING IN.
www.uscp.gov/visiting-capitol-hill/visitor-information/building-access-hours
It’s just around the corner, y’all…
This is how wise people discuss topics. They ask questions, they propose solutions, they critique weaknesses and acknowledge strengths, and they surmise how likely it is for us to be certain of any one conclusion. You don’t just give someone an answer and brow beat them until they agree with you. That’s not how a society becomes wise.
That's true of some questions, like this one. That's not true of dumb questions, like whether the earth is flat.
A society that's forever "debating" questions of objective, manifest reality is a society that has descended into a chaotic morass in which we can take no action because debate is never over. Your very phrase "become wise" necessitates arriving at at least some conclusions.
@@fiandrhi, every generation needs to debate previous generations’ assumptions. Granted, that doesn’t mean the debate needs to be long. If the debate is lopsided, such as in flat-earth, the debate will be short and decisive.
@@AV57 That's fine. The problem I have is that insisting on infinite debate is often used as an excuse to delay action. Yes, science is never finally "settled", but that fact can be leveraged as an excuse to endlessly delay.
Truth in science is approached asymptotically.
The distance between our understanding and some "absolute truth" is always non-zero in science. Science must work with error bars. But people are wired to prefer religions and ideologies, which always claim "certainty".
Also, laymen participate in pseudo-debate which they're comically unqualified to do. Laymen should look to what most scientists are saying, not as an authority, but simply as what is most likely to be true.
Science isn't religion or ideology. It's a kind of (albeit imperfect) guidance system. At some point we need to take the guidance and head off in the direction indicated.
The Irish unification of 2024 is looking more and more likely the closer we get to it
The UKIPs managed to blunder their way into unification in a way the provos could only dream of
fingers crossed
So is the start of World War III in 2026 lol
LOL no, it's not. Have a look at recent polls, no one wants a ui, the south dont want it because they cant afford it and NI don't want it because of the drop in living standards. A ui is just a dream for stupid paddys that they'll live and die with :-)
@@dredd1981 "stupid paddys" says it all about you mate. Piss off.
Every little tidbit from this show is so good . I can count on one hand the times it fell through for me
Well Hamas and Hezbollah must have watched this episode recently.
No, when all peaceful methods have been foreclosed.
Ah, back when Trek didn't try to beat you over the head with their message, but still managed to get it across and make you think.
@John Savii Both Discovery and Picard.
So having characters showing emotion or being in a healthy same sex relationship etc etc is "beat you over the head" but tackling another real world in terrorism, war, and peace isn't? Way to miss the point there dude... ✌️
Looking forward to Ireland's Unification next year .