I just wanted to add that the Inspiration Dice in BG3 (and D&D) is a great way to tip the RNG in your favour for important dialogue checks. You have a limited number of them, so you have to decide when to make use of them, and you get them as a reward for roleplaying your character according to his personality and background.
GAHHHHHH, I love this video essay!!! I cannot put in words how much a single watch of it helped me in terms of inspiration and figuring out the logistics of my dialogue-based game! I am VERY surprised this doesn't have more views Certainly gonna recommend this video to my gamedev friends and will give it another watch myself!
4:43 also Alpha Protocol by Obsidian Entertainment, dialogue choices pop up before the npc finishes his/her dialogue that the player character is conversing with.
I have something to add about How and why Violent Video game genres such as FPS or Action Rpg Sells far more than narrative games, and it's not only because they're easy to implement and for ppl to get into, but there's also the Language barrier that prevent non western foreigner from enjoying it, I got some friend from Indonesia who don't know english but plays the Mass Effect Trilogy, and he just skips every single dialogue and cutscenes that the game spout out and chooses random dialogue options regardless of how vital it is, he got confused why some of his team members suddenly disappears, not realizing he choose a certain option that leads to their in story death. but he really doesn't care at all at this supposedly shocking moment, because he doesn't care about the story, because he simply can't... this is why narrative games don't sell as well as action games... because Action is a Universal Language. And as you may realize Indonesia is not really a popular Country and that barely any games even bother to make a subtitle for it, if not at all, this is really Unfortunate since I want to show people the Incredible potential that Narrative in Video games can have, Because it offer something that other storytelling Medium like a film don't, and that is the the audiences- but I guess in this case the Players involvement in it. I love the Chaos system in Dishonored, The Nemesis system In Shadow of War, The Consequences of neuromod in Prey, Because I can see the Unique potential that Video game storytelling have by incorporating them with gameplay, I truly hope someone in the future would implement those Idea and Push it Even further. Geez this is a long comment, I should make an Essay video of my own at his point lol
I adore Griftlands, and one of the big reasons why is you have to balance both your combat and negotiation decks. While you can talk your way out of several conflicts, it shouldn't be your go to option since there are forced fights, and ignoring the chance to level up your combat deck only makes boss fights harder. At the same time, neglecting to engage in conversations means you may be unprepared for some of the harder negotiations, which can lead to failing a mission or making combat more difficult. It's a balancing act, and it also applies to your deckbuilding in general, since card bloat is an easy problem to run into if you're not careful. I personally didn't mind the gameplay being abstract, because I love the dialogue, writing and story, but I can see why you didn't enjoy it. The reason I bring this up is so often conversation systems in games either skip combat or make it easier, which while appealing can mean that the actual fighting mechanics can be neglected. I enjoyed my time with Fallout: New Vegas, but mostly because of the story and conversations. I disliked the actual gunplay, and stuck with speech in part because it got around the unfun combat. It came off as the "better" option than "an" option most of the time.
0:20 I recognized the Disco Elysium background music immediately haha. (And yes, I AM like you, and I prefer games about talking more than shooting, lol.
the system of the bar game reminds me of a old detective game with a similar element for a more modern one would be Obra Dinn which also separates dialogue in parts technically Obra Dinn while having no characters to talk to still is about that dialogue and moral conundrums
*indeed "how can we make talking to people as fun as killing them" is the question of life 😂 I think Road 96 did the best job of it 👌 each sequence relies on dialog and its something wildly different and interesting each time around. for open world games, its much more difficult 🤔 chatgpt is the only thing I can think of....because only unscripted and unpredictable dialog could tear me away from the boom boom bang bang.*
Oh u based as fuck for Valhalla I wish that game got to a wider audience. I’d say it’s underrated but pretty much everyone who’s played it agrees it’s great
One aspect of RPGs like BG3 and others like it, is that while the randomness to the dialogue check may seem unfair, it's not really your only option. Quite often you can use magic or items to improve your chances, or you can use stealth, or some kind of non-charisma based skill to find a way an alternative solution, or you can fight your way through. So it doesn't need to be fair compared to games where you have to succeed in a dialogue check to proceed.
I'm here for your argumentation, I just wonder what the level of satisfying skill expression in a given "encounter" is and how one designs mini- or actual bosses around non-violence / dialogue. I'm here for it, and I feel like with integration of a chat-gpt style conversational system that's been prompted correctly by the game, and limited in how exactly it can respond, it'd be possible to go deeper and so forth; where I'm at right now, I love the tension of being on the cusp of my skill expression being enough to make it and struggling with managing unforced errors, etc. I just don't see how that translates effectively into non-violence. I'd love to see it done in a format that I'm interested in trying out!
here's some advice for future game essayists like yourself: don't give advice to game designers. The idea an essayist has anything to teach game designers is laughable. Instead, make the essay targeted at gamers, and maybe at curating interesting experiences for everyone looking for their next game.
@@Renegen1 I've worked as an environment artist, prop artist, art lead, and written game design documents and pitch decks. Most recent published game is the Expanse Telltale Series. Check the credits if you like.
>drops the best video essay in the history of youtube
>disappears for a year
>refuses to elaborate
Thank you for the content, I love it.
happy to be of service
disco elysium soundtrack always gets me in the right mood, nice video bro!
Ohhhhhhh shit the king has returned! 🙌🏻🙌🏻
I just wanted to add that the Inspiration Dice in BG3 (and D&D) is a great way to tip the RNG in your favour for important dialogue checks. You have a limited number of them, so you have to decide when to make use of them, and you get them as a reward for roleplaying your character according to his personality and background.
It's the best essay on games dialogue I ever seen.
this guy is actually underrated as hell, wtf
Literally every second essay on games or movies I watched past... year? I think so. I hate many things about YT, but its algorithm delivers.
GAHHHHHH, I love this video essay!!! I cannot put in words how much a single watch of it helped me in terms of inspiration and figuring out the logistics of my dialogue-based game! I am VERY surprised this doesn't have more views
Certainly gonna recommend this video to my gamedev friends and will give it another watch myself!
I am glad it helped so much!!
Would love to hear more
HELL YEAH couldnt wait for another vid broooo
I saw the video, knew it would be good. Then saw the channel doing it and knew it would be awesome. Take care of yourself and keep up the good work!
Yooo I didn't expect the Visual Novel vs Kinetic Novels differentiation! Really well done video in general, great work. Subscribe well earned
This is one of the best essays ive seen on here! Im really hoping you post more!
My favorite of your videos so far! Well done and thanks!
4:43 also Alpha Protocol by Obsidian Entertainment, dialogue choices pop up before the npc finishes his/her dialogue that the player character is conversing with.
honestly, detroit: become human deserves its own video just because of how immersive the gameplay can be
I have something to add about How and why Violent Video game genres such as FPS or Action Rpg Sells far more than narrative games, and it's not only because they're easy to implement and for ppl to get into, but there's also the Language barrier that prevent non western foreigner from enjoying it,
I got some friend from Indonesia who don't know english but plays the Mass Effect Trilogy, and he just skips every single dialogue and cutscenes that the game spout out and chooses random dialogue options regardless of how vital it is, he got confused why some of his team members suddenly disappears, not realizing he choose a certain option that leads to their in story death. but he really doesn't care at all at this supposedly shocking moment, because he doesn't care about the story, because he simply can't... this is why narrative games don't sell as well as action games... because Action is a Universal Language.
And as you may realize Indonesia is not really a popular Country and that barely any games even bother to make a subtitle for it, if not at all, this is really Unfortunate since I want to show people the Incredible potential that Narrative in Video games can have, Because it offer something that other storytelling Medium like a film don't, and that is the the audiences- but I guess in this case the Players involvement in it.
I love the Chaos system in Dishonored, The Nemesis system In Shadow of War, The Consequences of neuromod in Prey, Because I can see the Unique potential that Video game storytelling have by incorporating them with gameplay, I truly hope someone in the future would implement those Idea and Push it Even further.
Geez this is a long comment, I should make an Essay video of my own at his point lol
If I end up finishing the game I'm making, I'll thank you for this video
i know im a bit late but why hasnt this video gotten 1 million views its very good.
Omg, yes ! Not only are you back but this topic is sooo cool (and wow, where you took it !!!)
5:56 danganrompa tries to solve this by making your words into bullets you fire out of a gun:, which is very funny.
Another amazing essay! blessings for the algorithm
I adore Griftlands, and one of the big reasons why is you have to balance both your combat and negotiation decks. While you can talk your way out of several conflicts, it shouldn't be your go to option since there are forced fights, and ignoring the chance to level up your combat deck only makes boss fights harder. At the same time, neglecting to engage in conversations means you may be unprepared for some of the harder negotiations, which can lead to failing a mission or making combat more difficult. It's a balancing act, and it also applies to your deckbuilding in general, since card bloat is an easy problem to run into if you're not careful. I personally didn't mind the gameplay being abstract, because I love the dialogue, writing and story, but I can see why you didn't enjoy it.
The reason I bring this up is so often conversation systems in games either skip combat or make it easier, which while appealing can mean that the actual fighting mechanics can be neglected. I enjoyed my time with Fallout: New Vegas, but mostly because of the story and conversations. I disliked the actual gunplay, and stuck with speech in part because it got around the unfun combat. It came off as the "better" option than "an" option most of the time.
How does this have this little views?! Unbelievable job man
0:20 I recognized the Disco Elysium background music immediately haha. (And yes, I AM like you, and I prefer games about talking more than shooting, lol.
I love action but games that focus on dialogue will always be my favorite
Amazing video 💪🏿
loved oxenfree's dialogue options
the system of the bar game reminds me of a old detective game with a similar element
for a more modern one would be Obra Dinn which also separates dialogue in parts
technically Obra Dinn while having no characters to talk to still is about that dialogue and moral conundrums
Welcome back!
It really is criminal just how little views this video has
Ohhh, this should be fun.
Disco, baby!
❤
*indeed "how can we make talking to people as fun as killing them" is the question of life 😂 I think Road 96 did the best job of it 👌 each sequence relies on dialog and its something wildly different and interesting each time around. for open world games, its much more difficult 🤔 chatgpt is the only thing I can think of....because only unscripted and unpredictable dialog could tear me away from the boom boom bang bang.*
Oh u based as fuck for Valhalla I wish that game got to a wider audience. I’d say it’s underrated but pretty much everyone who’s played it agrees it’s great
Have you played any deus ex games? I've never had more fun with a dialogue system than when I had an argument with my boss and won.
I have played most of them yes! I do particularly love the DXHR dialogue
You're probably enjoying Alan Wake 2 right about now, what will you be covering next?
One aspect of RPGs like BG3 and others like it, is that while the randomness to the dialogue check may seem unfair, it's not really your only option. Quite often you can use magic or items to improve your chances, or you can use stealth, or some kind of non-charisma based skill to find a way an alternative solution, or you can fight your way through. So it doesn't need to be fair compared to games where you have to succeed in a dialogue check to proceed.
I'm here for your argumentation, I just wonder what the level of satisfying skill expression in a given "encounter" is and how one designs mini- or actual bosses around non-violence / dialogue.
I'm here for it, and I feel like with integration of a chat-gpt style conversational system that's been prompted correctly by the game, and limited in how exactly it can respond, it'd be possible to go deeper and so forth; where I'm at right now, I love the tension of being on the cusp of my skill expression being enough to make it and struggling with managing unforced errors, etc. I just don't see how that translates effectively into non-violence. I'd love to see it done in a format that I'm interested in trying out!
🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰
Great video. but among us is an abormination.
here's some advice for future game essayists like yourself: don't give advice to game designers. The idea an essayist has anything to teach game designers is laughable.
Instead, make the essay targeted at gamers, and maybe at curating interesting experiences for everyone looking for their next game.
i work in the game industry - i am a game developer, lol
in what? you didn't come across as one. just an essayist.
@@Renegen1 I've worked as an environment artist, prop artist, art lead, and written game design documents and pitch decks. Most recent published game is the Expanse Telltale Series. Check the credits if you like.