hi guys! Just wanted to clarify that I wasn't trying to replicate any particular tone. I wanted to create a tone that sounds 90's and that is accessible for everybody, taking bits and pieces of known bands setup! I almost went the ZOOM9030 way but I might keep it for another video ;) hehe I'm curious, let me know what you guys are using!
Yeah man, that was certainly Trent’s choice back in the day. A super short cut for that sound as well. But it’s great seeing how you manipulated an amp sim to sound the same. Great advice for a modern engineer / producer.
The go-to trick we used to make huge 80s/90s guitars was a reverb with a massive size, but super short tail. You shouldn't hear the tail at all, really. Usually we had cheap crappy verb rack mount units, not high end one's. And if the verb couldn't shut down the tail fast enough you could use a gate, but those can get very chattery easily so better to do it on the verb itself. After you dial in the "big", add tone color and character by adjusting other parameters on the verb. Honestly, almost everybody had low end affordable gear and all of it could get you pretty much any tone you wanted. Don't get hung up on what the gear was... go for the production technique instead and explore the tonal ranges.
@@apoplexiamusic yes and also that software Turbosynth or something. Could be cool to remake it too. But I'd need to find a replacement for that Turbosynth thingy. I'm sure there's a way to do it.
This has been my favourite type of metal since I was a teen in the '90's. You really nailed the vibe. I would love to hear your take on the industrial metal in the style of early Fear Factory and Strapping Young Lad.
Early 90s FF is a "Elan Metalhead" mod JCM800 + Mesa cab, SYL is 5150 (most of their albums), but on City they used a Morin modded Marshall, which seems to also be a JCM800.
As a guitarist from the 90s the amps we had were peaveys, mesa's, knuckleheads, jmp900, jmp1, rocktron pres, ada pres, etc but usually hit the front with a hm2, ts, rc, noise gates, and emgs. Tube power amps, eq, and chorus were really popular for stereo.
Yeah man, I do too. There not much bands nowadays that are making good industrial metal tbh. There's many bands that are influenced but not ''''''''''pure'''''''''' industrial hehe The only one I have in mind right now is 3TEETH and maybe Horskh but I wouldn't say they're pure industrial metal either.
Ha. Very good. I was missing some lows/low mids in the final mix of everything, but you definitely dialed in the aggression. I was opening for, or mingling with, a lot of the bands in that scene when they came through NYC in the 90s. From what I observed or asked about: Ministry was definitely big on that JMP. Without any cabinet. Just direct into the board. At least on the recordings. Rammstein was a mix - Richard used guitars with EMGs into a Dual Rectifier and Paul used guitars with passive pickups into a SansAmp. I think that specific combo (especially when Paul went fully to Les Pauls) is a big component of their guitar sound. NIN and Manson (because Trent produced the Manson albums with those tones) used various amps (often Marshall 800s or 900s, and JMPs) but did a lot of signal shaping with pedals or post-processing. Some of the huge tones (like on Suck) came from tracking the guitars at double-speed (tape) an octave above the part. When you slowed the tape back down, the parts were back at the right octave, but the timbre was brutal and huge. KMFDM was passive pickups originally into a Soldano SLO100, and later a Mesa Triple Rectifier. I should also note the guitars that showed up a lot were (but not always) Gibsons of that time period, especially Les Pauls. The 498T bridge humbucker gives a particularly bright, aggressive sound, and when you combine it with the maple top on (most) Les Pauls of the time, it really has teeth and makes “that tone” easier to get. It’s a funny thing. I have spent a lot of time trying to dial up tones like that in the box, and I’ve had pretty good success, but last month I plugged my 90s Les Paul into my SansAmp PSA-1 -> Rocktron Solid-State PowerAmp -> Cabinet with Vintage 30s, and that sound was still RIGHT THERE. A big cheat is taking that Rackmount SansAmp unit (which you can get in plug-in form), going to preset 46 (Pantera), and dialing it a little (more low end, maybe less shrill). That will get you there quickly too.
You can’t go wrong with a Tone 21 product like the SandAmp GT-2. I had one for years since I couldn’t afford an amp, and couldn’t make the noise/gain a highly driven tube amp needs to sound good. I wound up selling it a few years back For a while now, I’ve been using the amp sim in Logic 9. I love that you can pick out the speakers and the cabinet. But now I picked up a small tube now, and I have a JHS distortion pedal, and it’s an absolute beast.
The tone on the guitars in these type of albums is lots of layers of super thin and fizzy guitar , the key to the heavy part of the sound is lots of layered bass synths ( That's the heavy sound and thump you hear and love ) . Even the bass guitar is way back in the mix , again with layers and layers of bass synths over the top of the bass guitar .
Yeah you're 100% right. Although I don't think it's layered THAT much. On top of that old albums like that has a different guitar tone/processing on almost every track hehe
From what I’ve discovered the Rectifier is the secret sauce for that industrial sound. It has a growl to its high gain that I’ve never heard from any other amp. I wish I knew what it was about that amp that creates it.
@@Tonepusher the main producer on Demanufacture was Colin Richardson. Also, I think Dino used a Jose modded JCM800 on that record. That amp and the production gave us one of the most insane guitar tones ever.
@@diabeticmonkey Yeah certainly one of the best metal album ever, huge game changer too. Also, the addition of ''metal hits'' samples on that record is spot on hehe Gives me a Terminator 2 vibes, idk why haha
Great job man. I appreciate you taking the time to watch all of the videos, documentaries and interviews to find this info. I’m a huge fan of the Nails, Ministry and Manson guitar sound. And like you mentioned in the beginning of the video, a lot of the times they’d go direct through a pedal. No amp. To get that tin and tearing sound. Great job, I’m going to look into that amp sim.
one of my favorite industrial guitar tones was Skinny Puppy Death. Amazing brash upper mid spike with rolled back highs. Screams celestion greenback to me.
I was curious about this too and I asked Richard Patrick what he used on wish when he was in Nine Inch Nails. He told me he used to JCM 2000 and a Marshall valve state. This led me to purchase a super crush 100 so that I had a non- tube amp to mix in to get that harshness. The super crushes apparently though not that harsh lol, but it does the job.
"The first Valvestates were introduced in 1991 and most of these models were discontinued in 1996 to be superceded that same year by the Valvestates MkII. These amps are cheaper alternatives to the expensive all tube amps. The Valvestates are transistorised amps containing one ECC83 tube in the Pre amp..." "The Valvestate 2 amps were introduced in 1996 and discontinued in 2000."
@@joshuakincheloe You said jcm 2000 and valavestate, dude. The Valvestate was around in the early 90's. The JCM 2000....which was an all tube successor to the JCM 900 line of amps....was not.
@@Tonepusher Definitely. If you want to hear the garbage I've written so far, you can look up Satanik Panik. Over time it'll sound better thanks to your work 😂
haha no problem man! there's many ways to achieve that type of sound. But I felt like this was the easiest. Also if you want more crunch to it you can add a Tube Screamer
That's alot of work and research. Nicely done by the way. But the 90's industrial tone isn't realy that elusive. I've got a few different versions dialed in on my Spark, no fancy gear needed! I was there in the 90's. I graduated high school in 92. Back then we were getting those tones out of a used Digitech RP1 and a crappy, BUT LOUD, Crate 2 12 combo amp!
haha thanks man! yeah you're right, there's multiple ways of achieving that sound or similar tones. I just wanted to share the easiest way (I think) of getting it. I mean it's literally 2 plugins that cost not that much. I didn't mention it but you can also add a Tube Screamer in there for more chugs hehe 🤘
haha yeah well Trent used a LOT of different gear. And sometimes every song on his albums have different guitar tones. Also the mixing and mastering part have a big role. BUT from what I can hear he is often mixing a ''regular'' guitar tone with a tone that has no cabinet. That's what gives the ''raw chainsaw'' effect! Also the famous ZOOM9030 thingy. I might make a video that at one point. I'll buy one hehe I'm curious :)
@@Tonepusher I have one, it’s a fun little unit. The bass tone from Happiness In Slavery is a preset on it. A guy I know also made an IR of the speaker simulator. The real key to their tones back then was the Turbosynth waveshaper. There’s nothing else that gets that tone.
@@nisroch yeah I read that somewhere, there's a dude on youtube that re-created it too. But the video is very low quality it's hard to follow hehe There's probably a way to run that software on modern computers. And I,d say that there's probably a simpler way to achieve the same sound too. That's what's fun with sound design, you can have the same result with 20 different process.
@MKBoricuaErm no, it was called TurboSynth and it was a Mac Only application. There is a piece of hardware that emulates the key function of Turbosynth which created the mangled distortion of the Broken/TDS era. I have it and gets that sound.
In the eraly 2000´s I swore on my Zoom 505 2, awesome shitty box 😄 But the distortions on that one were so huge! Today I do a stereo Setup with a metal muff on channel 1 and depending on song an OpAmp Big muff or a Metal Zone on Channel 2. My Amps are unspectacular Vox AC 50´s on a 4x12 and a 4x10 bass box. But all in all it gets pretty close to the Rammstein sound (Even if I prefer to call it Ministry or KMFDM Sound 😜) Adding more gain and chorus effects makes it sound more NIN
During the last 20 years of exploring Audio I often fantasized about "vaporwave parallel universe" kind of 90s industrial-rock/metal scenarios and following examples like Rammstein (Recto+Sansamp) I'd construct such a scenario like the band shaped their tone when they were pretty much unknown and low budget with things like stomp boxes in front of solid state combos. (I had a Boss MT2 in front of a crappy dull sounding Ross 1x8 combo miced with an SM58 and got a pretty decent tone for my riffs out of it) So I'd try several combinations of edgy stompbox-amp combinations, they don't need to sound super fat in the first place, they just have to function in a musical way. The next step would be the point when the band got the attraction of a label and went into a studio where the producer first records the edgy sound the band brings with themselves as optimal as possible and then lets the guitarist just record the same thing again but through a rectifier which he has access to because it's a proper studio. So the edgy component is layered with the pretty generic but super fat recto sound. Without the cheapo pedals the production would still sound fat but would lack of that "something special". Without the recto you'd still have the "edgy essence" but it'd lack the blowtorch texture. The possibilities are way higher than you might expect. Important is that you construct your sounds in a way it could have been realisticly possible in a 90s studio setup. You don't have to use the actual hardware but choose the components, techniques and signal flow accordingly. You can achieve that generic but super fat recto sound layer by using the recto ampknob plugin by Bogren. It's really good. No I don't get paid, I bought it myself and I think it's really great. Palm mutes and pinch harmonics! RUMM PUMM PUMM EEEEEOOOO!
@@Tonepusher Yep. Both locations. The first studio was nice, then Al and Reed moved it and sold half the studio to R Kelly. So yeah Pigface and R Kelly shared mics. The studio A console and monitors were absolutely insane. I think one of the early Monster Magnet records was tracked on that console. But yeah Paul ripped the head portion out of a JC120 and put it in top of a 8x10. Probably a MXR EQ and s Bassmaster pedal.
Yeah these guys used TONS of samples. I mean at some point pretty much every bands were using the AKAI S1000. Love KMDFM I should mention them more often.
Back in the late 90s we got the sound on the guitar by using a humbucker (Epi SG in my case) direct into a Boss DS-1 fed into the main board. The pre on the mixer was blasted too as that added sympathetic harmonics and tamed the harshness just enough. Double tracked, panned and EQ'd (also sometime the tone knob/gain moved a smidge) and you'd have a brutal sound. We'd also put drum sounds through various guitar preamp and pedals to fuck them up.
Cool stuff bro. The old Marshall Valvestate heads were used direct out> into mixing desk/interface by StaticX also one of my faves is the original SansAmp PSA-1 which I believe Rammstein use. These are monster hardware amps for Industrial style guitars. I think Ramms use a DI cleaner guitar blended in on the early albums. An extremely hard dialled in Noise Gate makes the sound complete. GOOD LUCK ALL 💥🤖💥
Sky-high with a heartache of stone You'll never see me 'cause I'm always alone Edit: thanks, now I'm going to listen to Psalm 69 for another week of my life probably🙃
great video. can you please also let us know what guitar was used and with what pickup / pickup selection. Its cool how you used the different mics left and right, i think to make it even wider, you could double track the guitar and pan it left and right, i always do that for anything heavy. :D
awesome bro, I love Ministry, NIN and Fear Factory, very good old days, oomph is great too! maybe a boy harsher/ultrasunn inspired as next preset pack? I love this kinda of delay + reverb also in basslines, what u think? keep the good work! :)
It's funny because I love Ministry and NIN, but I fking HATE the JMP-1. During that time I was also into Sepultura, Deicide and of course Justice era Metallica...so I raged through a Mesa Triaxis, with a Quadraverb GT+ and a 32 Band graphic in the effects loop, with a Marshall 8008 Valvestate power amp...and a stereo Marshall 1960 slope cab with all the speakers replaced with EVs 10-12dB more efficient than Celestions. It was unearthly, but I sold it after 9-11 for dirt money because I was made redundant as a telecom engineer. If I had that now...
@@davidwilliamson8029 No, I was made redundant after 9-11, along with 40,000 other telecom engineers. A lot of companies took the opportunity to essentially remove all their voice switch engineers and move to VoIP. After 6mo out of telecoms, you're pretty much a dinosaur...
The riff is copied from N.W.O. That is the song that I experienced on RAW Power back in the day and that enlightened me that there was a more exciting genre of heavy guitar music than the regular stuff that I'd heard up until that point. From that moment on, "Industrial" entered my vocabulary and I'm very grateful for that fact.
There JMP1 preamp has a speaker emulator output. Sounds like a low pass filter, but i used it in 2004 to record a demo and sounded ok! I always imagined some of this bands plunged in direct and used some kind of Palmer speaker emulator!
JMP-1 was released in 1992, so rather late for this style, and Ministry used jcm800 on Psalm 69 If I'm not mistaken (probably boosted by OD for obvious reasons). So... I don't think it's the amp to get that kind of sound, it's more about cab (or lack of it) and processing.
For the JMP you're probably right, but I took the information from one of Al's interview. You're kind of right, the cab is like 80% of the sound most of the time. But still, the amp is important when re-creating ''old'' tones. And I'm not a big fan of huge post-processing. I prefer having the perfect sound right away so when it's time for post processing, you just clean up minor stuff.
@@Tonepusher Al probably took more drugs than Ozzy at that time, so I wouldn't expect him to remember. I think I got the JCM800 from Gearslutz and engineer who worked on it, but I can be wrong, it's been a while. Anyways, yeah, in general, I agree get the right sound at the source, but for industrial, making weird stuff is kind of the whole point. I'm just pointing out that JMP-1 or its emulation isn't some kind of seret tool in this case. You could've gone with Sansamp or Soldano and it would be a great fit for industrial as well. And BTW, I really like what you did here, good job.
@@ptbempire nice, I feel like Industrial is coming back. Lots of new bands are taking inspirations from old school industrial. What's the name of your band?
hi guys! Just wanted to clarify that I wasn't trying to replicate any particular tone. I wanted to create a tone that sounds 90's and that is accessible for everybody, taking bits and pieces of known bands setup! I almost went the ZOOM9030 way but I might keep it for another video ;) hehe
I'm curious, let me know what you guys are using!
Yeah man, that was certainly Trent’s choice back in the day. A super short cut for that sound as well. But it’s great seeing how you manipulated an amp sim to sound the same. Great advice for a modern engineer / producer.
I'm not into Industrial Metal but I like some bands. Sure Tech 21 Sansamp has some cool sounds
@@VincentVegardSvart The Sansamp is a classic, still used by many bands
The go-to trick we used to make huge 80s/90s guitars was a reverb with a massive size, but super short tail. You shouldn't hear the tail at all, really. Usually we had cheap crappy verb rack mount units, not high end one's. And if the verb couldn't shut down the tail fast enough you could use a gate, but those can get very chattery easily so better to do it on the verb itself. After you dial in the "big", add tone color and character by adjusting other parameters on the verb. Honestly, almost everybody had low end affordable gear and all of it could get you pretty much any tone you wanted. Don't get hung up on what the gear was... go for the production technique instead and explore the tonal ranges.
I do it like that with a very short tailed delay on bassguitar. Also known as the Haas-effect.
Demonstration please.
Oh baby, I'm gonna make sounds like it's 1994 all over again!
haha that's it! and then when you're done with music don't forget to go rent a movie!
@@Tonepusherplease be kind and rewind
@@allendickeson442 yeah I don't want that $1 penalty fee 🤯 haha
Sick! I could almost hear George Bush Sr. talking about the need world order
Haha I know eh? thanks man 🤘
@@Tonepusher i read in a few places about the classic NIИ guitar tone for which Trent was using a Zoom fx unit
Or beavis and butrhead barking
@@apoplexiamusic yes and also that software Turbosynth or something. Could be cool to remake it too. But I'd need to find a replacement for that Turbosynth thingy. I'm sure there's a way to do it.
@@Tonepusher maybe in Bitwig’s Grid?
This has been my favourite type of metal since I was a teen in the '90's. You really nailed the vibe. I would love to hear your take on the industrial metal in the style of early Fear Factory and Strapping Young Lad.
Early 90s FF is a "Elan Metalhead" mod JCM800 + Mesa cab, SYL is 5150 (most of their albums), but on City they used a Morin modded Marshall, which seems to also be a JCM800.
MINISTRY N*W*O!! Great video man!! Thumbs up!!
hell yeah! thanks man 🤘
As a guitarist from the 90s the amps we had were peaveys, mesa's, knuckleheads, jmp900, jmp1, rocktron pres, ada pres, etc but usually hit the front with a hm2, ts, rc, noise gates, and emgs. Tube power amps, eq, and chorus were really popular for stereo.
Holy crap you posted this literally the day I needed it! You're amazing haha thanks a bunch for this payload of info
haha internet can be weird sometimes 👻 haha np man! 🤘🏻
Fuck I miss Industrial Metal. Rammstein, Manson and Ministry are the 3 bands that really got me into Metal.
Yeah man, I do too. There not much bands nowadays that are making good industrial metal tbh. There's many bands that are influenced but not ''''''''''pure'''''''''' industrial hehe The only one I have in mind right now is 3TEETH and maybe Horskh but I wouldn't say they're pure industrial metal either.
❤️
That guitar sound instantly reminded me of some early Rammstein songs. Well done, even without a Triple Rectifier type plugin.
thanks man haha yeah early rammstein sounds sooo good!
I got my rackmount Marshall JMP-1 around 2000 I believe, and still have it. You nailed it, thanks for putting this great video together.
nice! it's a great piece of history and a timeless sound, keep it! haha 🤘🏻
Had one about 2005 and I didn't know how to use it, so I sold it. Really wishing I didn't.
@@floydhopkins7901 haha if I learned something is that, one should never sell gear. NEVER! haha I'm not doing that mistake ever again.
Ha. Very good. I was missing some lows/low mids in the final mix of everything, but you definitely dialed in the aggression.
I was opening for, or mingling with, a lot of the bands in that scene when they came through NYC in the 90s. From what I observed or asked about:
Ministry was definitely big on that JMP. Without any cabinet. Just direct into the board. At least on the recordings.
Rammstein was a mix - Richard used guitars with EMGs into a Dual Rectifier and Paul used guitars with passive pickups into a SansAmp. I think that specific combo (especially when Paul went fully to Les Pauls) is a big component of their guitar sound.
NIN and Manson (because Trent produced the Manson albums with those tones) used various amps (often Marshall 800s or 900s, and JMPs) but did a lot of signal shaping with pedals or post-processing. Some of the huge tones (like on Suck) came from tracking the guitars at double-speed (tape) an octave above the part. When you slowed the tape back down, the parts were back at the right octave, but the timbre was brutal and huge.
KMFDM was passive pickups originally into a Soldano SLO100, and later a Mesa Triple Rectifier.
I should also note the guitars that showed up a lot were (but not always) Gibsons of that time period, especially Les Pauls. The 498T bridge humbucker gives a particularly bright, aggressive sound, and when you combine it with the maple top on (most) Les Pauls of the time, it really has teeth and makes “that tone” easier to get.
It’s a funny thing. I have spent a lot of time trying to dial up tones like that in the box, and I’ve had pretty good success, but last month I plugged my 90s Les Paul into my SansAmp PSA-1 -> Rocktron Solid-State PowerAmp -> Cabinet with Vintage 30s, and that sound was still RIGHT THERE. A big cheat is taking that Rackmount SansAmp unit (which you can get in plug-in form), going to preset 46 (Pantera), and dialing it a little (more low end, maybe less shrill). That will get you there quickly too.
heyy! thanks for the tips man 🤘🏻 yeah I alllmost went the Sansamp way on this video haha But I figured Marshall was the most iconic gear hehe
You can’t go wrong with a Tone 21 product like the SandAmp GT-2. I had one for years since I couldn’t afford an amp, and couldn’t make the noise/gain a highly driven tube amp needs to sound good. I wound up selling it a few years back For a while now, I’ve been using the amp sim in Logic 9. I love that you can pick out the speakers and the cabinet. But now I picked up a small tube now, and I have a JHS distortion pedal, and it’s an absolute beast.
That song has been my wake-up alarm for over a decade. Gets me up everytime.
lol you're probably up in seconds
I thought all these bands used mainly SansAmp. I'm surprised.
Yeah some of them did, like Rasmmstein for exemple. But Ministry, KMFDM or NIN were using the JMP!
I had a SamsAmp GT2 for eons. It sounded really good like a tube amp should. No one ever knew the difference.
The tone on the guitars in these type of albums is lots of layers of super thin and fizzy guitar , the key to the heavy part of the sound is lots of layered bass synths ( That's the heavy sound and thump you hear and love ) . Even the bass guitar is way back in the mix , again with layers and layers of bass synths over the top of the bass guitar .
Yeah you're 100% right. Although I don't think it's layered THAT much. On top of that old albums like that has a different guitar tone/processing on almost every track hehe
From what I’ve discovered the Rectifier is the secret sauce for that industrial sound. It has a growl to its high gain that I’ve never heard from any other amp. I wish I knew what it was about that amp that creates it.
Yeah If I was to go industrial metal, but more modern, the Rectifier would be in the top of my list for sure.
@@Tonepusher Yeah my quintessential industrial tone is Du Hast so I lean a little more towards the modern sound.
Uhh, the amp isn't really a secret sauce per se. Everyone used rectos in several genres.
@@armyofninjas9055Good luck trying to sound like Rammstein without a Recto.
The video I was waiting for! 🤘
Ive always loved the early Ministry sound. Excellent upload even though I only use real amps so I cant use any of the ideas.
haha thanks man, yeah theres nothing like real amps 🤘🏻
90s industrial guitar tone, and my mind immediately goes to Powerman 5000 ❤
haha yeah Powerman 5000 was great! Sounds like Rob Zombie, coincidence? I don't think so! 🤣
@@Tonepusher 😂 But seriously, *Tonight, The Stars Revolt!* was my JAM. Title track went SO hard.
And Static X
@@justaguy2365 classic 🤘
Think my favorite tone from this era was Demanufacture by Fear Factory
Yeah man, I believe Rhys Fulber produced that album. Total game changer
@@Tonepusher the main producer on Demanufacture was Colin Richardson. Also, I think Dino used a Jose modded JCM800 on that record. That amp and the production gave us one of the most insane guitar tones ever.
@@diabeticmonkey Yeah certainly one of the best metal album ever, huge game changer too. Also, the addition of ''metal hits'' samples on that record is spot on hehe Gives me a Terminator 2 vibes, idk why haha
@@Tonepusher I think the beginning of Pisschrist is quite literally from Terminator. I could be wrong though.
@@diabeticmonkey oh yeah literally hehe probably my favorite movie haha great soundtrack
Great job man. I appreciate you taking the time to watch all of the videos, documentaries and interviews to find this info.
I’m a huge fan of the Nails, Ministry and Manson guitar sound. And like you mentioned in the beginning of the video, a lot of the times they’d go direct through a pedal. No amp. To get that tin and tearing sound.
Great job, I’m going to look into that amp sim.
hey thanks man! 🤘🏻 yeah blending a "no cab" tone with a more classic tone is a great way to do it.
The JMP is an underrated amp. While not industrial, Steph Carpenter of the Deftones used it for White Pony, which is one of my favorite guitar tones
oh definitely man, White Pony sounds sooooo good, that snare drum too haha but the guitars sounds huge and super wide 👌🏻
Marlon Manson guitars go hard
I know right? Way harder than Marilyn
@@Tonepusher*marilyn, my auto correct I did t realize it put Marlon lol
@@user-tw5si4tr3q hahaha no problem man, made me laugh :P And yeah especially the early stuff. These guys were so creative too.
Yeah I wish I knew the way to get that tone.
one of my favorite industrial guitar tones was Skinny Puppy Death. Amazing brash upper mid spike with rolled back highs. Screams celestion greenback to me.
Love it too
You just gotta get a metal zone pedal. You'll be fine.
DARUDE - SANDSTORM
I was curious about this too and I asked Richard Patrick what he used on wish when he was in Nine Inch Nails. He told me he used to JCM 2000 and a Marshall valve state. This led me to purchase a super crush 100 so that I had a non- tube amp to mix in to get that harshness. The super crushes apparently though not that harsh lol, but it does the job.
oh nice tip! I'll check that out for sure 🤘🏻
He must have meant a jcm 900. JCM 2000's were not around in the early 90's when Richard was with NIN.
@@SluggerStark no, valve state amps came out in 1991 and the album broken came out in 1992, so it all tracks
"The first Valvestates were introduced in 1991 and most of these models were discontinued in 1996 to be superceded that same year by the Valvestates MkII. These amps are cheaper alternatives to the expensive all tube amps. The Valvestates are transistorised amps containing one ECC83 tube in the Pre amp..."
"The Valvestate 2 amps were introduced in 1996 and discontinued in 2000."
@@joshuakincheloe You said jcm 2000 and valavestate, dude. The Valvestate was around in the early 90's. The JCM 2000....which was an all tube successor to the JCM 900 line of amps....was not.
Definitely know those drum beat and guitar riffs. "What we are dealing with is good and evil, right and wrong."
haha🤘🤘
I'm basically going to be able to make everything I ever wanted just from watching the videos on this channel hahaha! Well done mate. Love your work.
haha thanks man! that's the goal! Sharing knowledge 🙏🙌
@@Tonepusher Definitely. If you want to hear the garbage I've written so far, you can look up Satanik Panik. Over time it'll sound better thanks to your work 😂
The timing you released this video couldn't be more appropriate... Since last week I've been chasing those 90"s tones...thank you!
haha no problem man! there's many ways to achieve that type of sound. But I felt like this was the easiest. Also if you want more crunch to it you can add a Tube Screamer
@@Tonepusher Definitely will try to achieve this tone for my new project! This was rad,my friend... Have a nice one! ☺
That's alot of work and research. Nicely done by the way. But the 90's industrial tone isn't realy that elusive. I've got a few different versions dialed in on my Spark, no fancy gear needed! I was there in the 90's. I graduated high school in 92. Back then we were getting those tones out of a used Digitech RP1 and a crappy, BUT LOUD, Crate 2 12 combo amp!
haha thanks man! yeah you're right, there's multiple ways of achieving that sound or similar tones. I just wanted to share the easiest way (I think) of getting it. I mean it's literally 2 plugins that cost not that much. I didn't mention it but you can also add a Tube Screamer in there for more chugs hehe 🤘
Fantastic tone sir! Great job!!! Made me feel like I was watching the 90's Mortal Kombat movie for sure
haha !! thanks man! Test your might!
Perfect timing for this video. Keep it up!
haha thanks !! nice name btw, love Depeche Mode 🤘🏻 :)
That drum beat is NWO by Ministry.
Could also kinda be Sonne from Rammstein.
haha yeah true! and also many other rammstein songs 😅
K Von's father would be so proud of you at 4:15. He worked so hard for turd place!
lolll I'm honored my friend.
Ive been studying this all year, thank you for the video, also a good example is Static-X.
yeah thanks man! Static-X is also a huge classic hehe
great video, a Zoom 505 will get you mostly there for $30 there's a preset that is spot on for this as well.
never used it! I'll check that out for sure :)
I love that you use a shout from join in the chant by nitzer ebb from Douglas McCarthy as your bleep sound for cuss words in quotes 🤣👌
lolll I know eh? I must admit that I laughed at my own joke.
@@Tonepusher I laugh at it too brother!😂👍 also, love that you use New world order from ministry as your Bass track 👍👌🙏🙏🙏✌️
@@maxmatson1578 Haha love NWO! Actually, the bass track was Eurobass III with Neural DSP Parallax. That plugin is insane!
I just wanedt to say that I recognized the drum track. Because I am an intellectual.
Interesting video. :)
hahaha thanks man, yeah you are indeed
I've been chasing the guitar tone from NIN's wish for a few years. Finally nailed it and no I am sharing how I did it.
haha yeah well Trent used a LOT of different gear. And sometimes every song on his albums have different guitar tones. Also the mixing and mastering part have a big role. BUT from what I can hear he is often mixing a ''regular'' guitar tone with a tone that has no cabinet. That's what gives the ''raw chainsaw'' effect!
Also the famous ZOOM9030 thingy. I might make a video that at one point. I'll buy one hehe I'm curious :)
@@Tonepusher I have one, it’s a fun little unit. The bass tone from Happiness In Slavery is a preset on it. A guy I know also made an IR of the speaker simulator. The real key to their tones back then was the Turbosynth waveshaper. There’s nothing else that gets that tone.
@@nisroch yeah I read that somewhere, there's a dude on youtube that re-created it too. But the video is very low quality it's hard to follow hehe There's probably a way to run that software on modern computers. And I,d say that there's probably a simpler way to achieve the same sound too. That's what's fun with sound design, you can have the same result with 20 different process.
@@Well__Well__Well nice! well, that's what industrial is all about...creativity! love it hehe
@MKBoricuaErm no, it was called TurboSynth and it was a Mac Only application. There is a piece of hardware that emulates the key function of Turbosynth which created the mangled distortion of the Broken/TDS era. I have it and gets that sound.
In the eraly 2000´s I swore on my Zoom 505 2, awesome shitty box 😄 But the distortions on that one were so huge! Today I do a stereo Setup with a metal muff on channel 1 and depending on song an OpAmp Big muff or a Metal Zone on Channel 2. My Amps are unspectacular Vox AC 50´s on a 4x12 and a 4x10 bass box. But all in all it gets pretty close to the Rammstein sound (Even if I prefer to call it Ministry or KMFDM Sound 😜) Adding more gain and chorus effects makes it sound more NIN
yeah well Rammstein pretty much ''copied'' Ministry hehe More melodic vocals and choruses, but basically almost the same thing (especially Sehnsucht)
@@Tonepusher and not to forget, Du hast! It´s so damn Just One Fix 😆
@@hollowwordsbns exactly lol
Very cool video!
thanks :) 🤘
Looks at Ibanez RG.
Looks at Tech 21 Paul Landers pedal.
Looks at Powered PA.
your tone its really good manm, reminds me the black album
haha classic tone! thanks man
During the last 20 years of exploring Audio I often fantasized about "vaporwave parallel universe" kind of 90s industrial-rock/metal scenarios and following examples like Rammstein (Recto+Sansamp) I'd construct such a scenario like the band shaped their tone when they were pretty much unknown and low budget with things like stomp boxes in front of solid state combos. (I had a Boss MT2 in front of a crappy dull sounding Ross 1x8 combo miced with an SM58 and got a pretty decent tone for my riffs out of it)
So I'd try several combinations of edgy stompbox-amp combinations, they don't need to sound super fat in the first place, they just have to function in a musical way.
The next step would be the point when the band got the attraction of a label and went into a studio where the producer first records the edgy sound the band brings with themselves as optimal as possible and then lets the guitarist just record the same thing again but through a rectifier which he has access to because it's a proper studio. So the edgy component is layered with the pretty generic but super fat recto sound. Without the cheapo pedals the production would still sound fat but would lack of that "something special". Without the recto you'd still have the "edgy essence" but it'd lack the blowtorch texture.
The possibilities are way higher than you might expect. Important is that you construct your sounds in a way it could have been realisticly possible in a 90s studio setup. You don't have to use the actual hardware but choose the components, techniques and signal flow accordingly.
You can achieve that generic but super fat recto sound layer by using the recto ampknob plugin by Bogren. It's really good. No I don't get paid, I bought it myself and I think it's really great. Palm mutes and pinch harmonics! RUMM PUMM PUMM EEEEEOOOO!
Gonna throw my old pod farm 2.5 a lot for this genre
Ministry 🤘🏻🤘🏻🤘🏻🤘🏻
A Rennaissance. I'm down. Lets Jam
Very nice! Might have to try and go at the 90s Industrial Metal sound sometime lol
Hey! that's a good idea. I'm currently working on something kind of similar hehe But I'll put that in the list for sure.
Nice and fine with all the effects, but to get even closer to These 90s Sound you have tune the Guitar in Drop-D 👍🤘🏿
haha yeah well I was in E Standard which is the sound I was going for, but you're right some bands did tune differently.
Trent used turbo synth and zoom effects which is worth looking into
yeah I'm curious about that turbosynth thing, I'm sure there's a way to replicate that today
90’s WaxTrax bass studio set up was a Roland JC120 head ran into a Ampeg 8 x10. It was set up in studio B at Trax Studios in Chicago.
That's way to precise to be a suposition haha Were you there?
@@Tonepusher Yep. Both locations. The first studio was nice, then Al and Reed moved it and sold half the studio to R Kelly. So yeah Pigface and R Kelly shared mics. The studio A console and monitors were absolutely insane. I think one of the early Monster Magnet records was tracked on that console. But yeah Paul ripped the head portion out of a JC120 and put it in top of a 8x10. Probably a MXR EQ and s Bassmaster pedal.
@@snapcult464 I hope that the studio is the only thing they shared 👀haha
When in doubt use an Ampeg hehe Even for guitars it seems lol
All you need is a Ibanez with emgs and a boss metal zone plugged in directly and maybe a bit crusher for some tones
It's true that there's more bands then we think that used the infamous metalzone!
This was basically what I used as a teenager
A guitar with EMGs into a Metal Zone into a clean amp
Worked for me 🤘🏼
90's industrial guitar tone, aka the sound of my upbringing!
haha same! instant memories
Another good place to sample guitar riffs is slayer. Can’t remember the name but there’s a KMFDM track that uses one. Good stuff.
Yeah these guys used TONS of samples. I mean at some point pretty much every bands were using the AKAI S1000. Love KMDFM I should mention them more often.
Godlike 🙂
It’s Godlike
5:11 once you hear the 10k you can't unhear it. You want it!
2:30
Ministry - N.W.O
🎉🎉🎉
I bet most of these guys were running RAT distortions too. That pedal is just instant 90s distortion.
That is not the sound of Nine Inch Nails. The NIN Broken and Downward Spiral are mostly the zoom 9030.
I know, but the JMP is part of it. I wanted to make a guitar tone that sounds 90's and that is using a blend of what 90's bands were using :)
Back in the late 90s we got the sound on the guitar by using a humbucker (Epi SG in my case) direct into a Boss DS-1 fed into the main board. The pre on the mixer was blasted too as that added sympathetic harmonics and tamed the harshness just enough. Double tracked, panned and EQ'd (also sometime the tone knob/gain moved a smidge) and you'd have a brutal sound. We'd also put drum sounds through various guitar preamp and pedals to fuck them up.
Great stuff! Thanks for this
hey np:) thanks to you!
Cool stuff bro. The old Marshall Valvestate heads were used direct out> into mixing desk/interface by StaticX also one of my faves is the original SansAmp PSA-1 which I believe Rammstein use. These are monster hardware amps for Industrial style guitars. I think Ramms use a DI cleaner guitar blended in on the early albums. An extremely hard dialled in Noise Gate makes the sound complete. GOOD LUCK ALL 💥🤖💥
Really nice man!
thanks :)
Sky-high with a heartache of stone
You'll never see me 'cause I'm always alone
Edit: thanks, now I'm going to listen to Psalm 69 for another week of my life probably🙃
haha np man! such a great album 🤘🏻
great video. can you please also let us know what guitar was used and with what pickup / pickup selection. Its cool how you used the different mics left and right, i think to make it even wider, you could double track the guitar and pan it left and right, i always do that for anything heavy. :D
Rammstein isnt hard, for richard its adual recto w/ recto cabs, and a sansamp on pauls side
I read somewhere that KMFDM was simply trying to replicate classic Metallica rhythm tones.
haha makes sense, totally sounds like it
@@Tonepusher Just not played as well haha
awesome bro, I love Ministry, NIN and Fear Factory, very good old days, oomph is great too! maybe a boy harsher/ultrasunn inspired as next preset pack? I love this kinda of delay + reverb also in basslines, what u think? keep the good work! :)
Thanks man!But I don't know these bands haha Shame on me! I'll check them out for sure! :)
You nailed it! What did you use to get that throaty bass tone?
hey thanks dude, I used Eurobass III and Parallax. It's my go to sound, sounds good every time hehe
@@Tonepusher checking them out now, thank you so much! 🤘
It's funny because I love Ministry and NIN, but I fking HATE the JMP-1.
During that time I was also into Sepultura, Deicide and of course Justice era Metallica...so I raged through a Mesa Triaxis, with a Quadraverb GT+ and a 32 Band graphic in the effects loop, with a Marshall 8008 Valvestate power amp...and a stereo Marshall 1960 slope cab with all the speakers replaced with EVs 10-12dB more efficient than Celestions.
It was unearthly, but I sold it after 9-11 for dirt money because I was made redundant as a telecom engineer.
If I had that now...
Are you still in the telecom industry?
@@davidwilliamson8029 No, I was made redundant after 9-11, along with 40,000 other telecom engineers. A lot of companies took the opportunity to essentially remove all their voice switch engineers and move to VoIP.
After 6mo out of telecoms, you're pretty much a dinosaur...
The riff is copied from N.W.O. That is the song that I experienced on RAW Power back in the day and that enlightened me that there was a more exciting genre of heavy guitar music than the regular stuff that I'd heard up until that point. From that moment on, "Industrial" entered my vocabulary and I'm very grateful for that fact.
Yeah Industrial is such a unique genre. There's nothing like it 🤘
i love this channel
haha thanks :) 🤘🏻
Sweet! Thanks Brother!
hey np man 🤘🏻
I like filter and stabbing westward guitar wise tone
Yeah I love Stabbing Westward! Never been into Filter that much, maybe I should hehe
Thank you for this information I love that Antichrist superstar tone
hey! np man
I just wanna know how to make the guitar tone from golden Age of grotesque
There JMP1 preamp has a speaker emulator output. Sounds like a low pass filter, but i used it in 2004 to record a demo and sounded ok! I always imagined some of this bands plunged in direct and used some kind of Palmer speaker emulator!
Thank you, great tutorial
thanks to you 🙏🏻😊
Very cool video! Indeed, very 90's! The beat was lifted from Ministry NWO... Et je suis presque 100 % certain que t'es Québécois ;)
haha exactly! annnnd oui je suis démasqué lol
@@Tonepusher 🤣 Mais sérieux, vraiment cool comme chaîne. Je te shoot en mp un lien de mon ancien band (Mtl), ça rentre pas mal dans ce style là 💪
@@rororororobobobobobo hey merci, ouais pas de trouble :) J'ai hate d'entendre ça.
trent reznor used Turbosynth all over The Downward Spiral
Yeah I know, I must find a way to re-create it! 🤓
Hey man , i love the video!!... killer sound!!
My question is, are you french canadian ?😊
thanks man! haha yeah I'm from Montreal 😁 haha It's that obvious? 👀😂😂 It's the GSP accent
@@Tonepusher hahahha
I'm from Val d'or so , j'ai identifié toute suite!!
Jva te suivre et m'abonner !!
@@jasonboulet6415 haha nice! merci 🤘
You can also get more high end out of the guitar tone by pitting the mic fight at the dust cap of the speaker.
Actually very nice!!!
thanks 🤘🏻
Great tone.
thanks :) 🤘
And when you add *a lot* of reverb + delay, you get the tone that influenced all these bands. Godflesh
Good video
thanks a lot 🙏🏻🤘🏻
How do you create the 90’s industrial vocals of Ministry?
That's a good question and also a good video to make 😁 *put that on the list* 🤘🏻
@@Tonepusher even the late 80’s vocals as well, mind is a terrible thing to taste and land of rape and honey
@@nitrojanks2977 100% Ministry always had great and original vocal processing. I'll remake them for sure!
@@Tonepusher can’t wait ! I really want to do some industrial stuff, but can’t get the vocals I want
Chorus, lots of chorus, and run like three compressors into each other.
Why does the sound sample sound like NWO, by ministry?
I have NO idea 👀
JMP-1 was released in 1992, so rather late for this style, and Ministry used jcm800 on Psalm 69 If I'm not mistaken (probably boosted by OD for obvious reasons). So... I don't think it's the amp to get that kind of sound, it's more about cab (or lack of it) and processing.
For the JMP you're probably right, but I took the information from one of Al's interview.
You're kind of right, the cab is like 80% of the sound most of the time. But still, the amp is important when re-creating ''old'' tones. And I'm not a big fan of huge post-processing. I prefer having the perfect sound right away so when it's time for post processing, you just clean up minor stuff.
@@Tonepusher Al probably took more drugs than Ozzy at that time, so I wouldn't expect him to remember. I think I got the JCM800 from Gearslutz and engineer who worked on it, but I can be wrong, it's been a while. Anyways, yeah, in general, I agree get the right sound at the source, but for industrial, making weird stuff is kind of the whole point. I'm just pointing out that JMP-1 or its emulation isn't some kind of seret tool in this case. You could've gone with Sansamp or Soldano and it would be a great fit for industrial as well. And BTW, I really like what you did here, good job.
And KMFDM.
You got a new abo
hey! haha thanks 🤘🤘
Marlin Manson
Never heard of him? It's his evil brother.
Yes I also love Marlon Manson 😂😂
hahaha must be his new identity after all the accusations 👀 haha
SUUUPPPEEERRRRR!😎
haha 🔥🔥
Sick af video!
hey thanks man !! 🤘🤘
@@Tonepusher np dude I also make industrial music with my project. I’m a huge fan of the genre and have tons of friends we need to be heard as well
@@ptbempire nice, I feel like Industrial is coming back. Lots of new bands are taking inspirations from old school industrial. What's the name of your band?
@@Tonepusher World Suspension, it is a solo project
The Drum Beat sounds like Ministry - N.W.O to me.
N.W.O. by Ministry!🤘🤘🤘
haha exactly!!!🎉
I could have sworn that these bands used a metal zone because of the chainsaw tone, damn wrong again.
haha well ngl you could actually use a metal zone and probably get a sound that sounds very close.
nice merci man
de rien ! 🤘