GO BEYOND at blindwave.com where you can watch Full Length Reactions and 1 MONTH Early Access!! BEYOND Members and Raw Rider Patrons can watch the Full Length Reaction HERE: blindwave.com/video/the-bear-2x06-full/
my man on the right has problems He's advocating for fake characters on a tv show, that are the cause of the problems. The mother created this, everyone else is coping. To blame other peoples coping mechanisms is wild , and telling. It usually means, that person, is also in a similar situation, and refuses to deal with it.
The genius of this show is making this work and not having these cameos be a distraction. It had the potential to be a cameo fest but they integrated into their roles in one episode seamlessly
Felt like it could have been a completely isolated movie with an insanely good ensemble. There’s enough done in the script and the performances to work out where they all fit in the family, etc. The fact that it then completely fits into the overall arc of the show and strengthens the backgrounds of so many of the characters is an amazing achievement
Actually the cameos “being a distraction” was also an intentional choice by Storer. From an interview with him on the LA Times: “I wanted it to be distracting,” Storer said. “I wanted the viewer to be like, ‘What the f- is Bob Odenkirk doing here?’ I wanted it to really feel like when you walk into your family’s house and you are just overwhelmed by a cousin who you don’t want to talk to, an uncle you don’t want to see. You don’t even know who’s related to who, which I always feel like is the truest thing - everyone’s calling each other cousin and you don’t know what the f- is really going on, but you do know that even through all their weirdness and how dark it gets, they do kind of love each other.”
My favourite part of that side of things is the poor woman who exists in this episode, and is the only one without lines. I spent those fleeting moments on screen trying to see her face clearly, which is funny when she's surrounded by well known actors at all times. I assume she's called Carol from the credits and it would have been even funnier if she was somehow an even bigger named actress than even JLC.
For those who have watched Shameless... we def saw the parallels and I felt sorry for Lip/Carm for having to deal with both roles amidst such chaos, he def deserves all the praise he's getting n will continue to get for this show.
And Nat is the perfect example of a parentified child, who feels the need to be nurturing and empathetic even when the response she gets from the parent is abusive. Mikey and Carmy let it bounce off them more easily, but Nat can't because she has a need to make things okay.
Calvin is 100% right. The "dynamic of the individual children" is key. Natalie is the middle child and the only daughter. It wouldn't be realistic for her to handle things like Michael or Carmy because they clearly weren't raised the same way. The story of how she got her nickname tells me everything I need to know about their childhood, I feel for her lol.
she is the Pete of the Berzattos largely because of Donna’s dysfunction: the challenging question for her character is whether she’ll stay “good” and relatively uncorrupted or will she lose what makes her ‘sugar’ as she’s folded into the restaurant and entering motherhood
Yeah like how you would assume that Sugar is a nickname coming from a place of love or endearment. And to find out that it's based in their mom making fun of her for a mistake she made as a kid, it's just sad 😔
Jamie Lee Curtis said in an interview that she wanted to play this role because she was such a big fan of the first season of The Bear and whenever she noticed that no one played Donna in the first season she told her agent to try and convince the show runners to let her play the part.
The slow zooms on Carm and Sugar at the end are some fucking A24 horror movie shit. God I feel for those two. Also, Stevie is the MVP of this episode. His tension breaking humor is an absolute necessity throughout this chaos. Cant wait for next week's reaction, easily my favorite episode of the season and the perfect follow up to this in terms of tone.
So many times I thought, "okay, this is when I would fake a headache and leave" . I can't believe Steven stuck it out AND thanked them for inviting him into that chaos.
I can't tell you how funny I find everyone's relentless and senseless abuse of Pete. He's such a nice guy and the only reason he gets dumped on is that he is as far away from being a Berzatto as a person can be. I think that's probably why Natalie loves him.
Also, re: Donna - She's a huge force for good or for ill. Her personality is massive. The three kids have spent decades walking on eggshells around her, so as not to set her off. It's natural, because kids don't judge their parents, so she never gets confronted. Each kid has reacted in different ways - Michael imitated her, and that's how he pulled the very insecure Richie into his orbit. Nat decided to placate her mom, which gave her lots of empathy but also made her too sensitive. Carmy just dissociated - he went away in his head, and disengaged himself from his situation mentally. As a result, he didn't do well in school, he had no friends, and never had a girlfriend. He spaces out, and loses focus, because that's what he's always done to protect himself. So at the end of the episode you have Michael screaming, Carmy going completely blank, and Nat looking on Carmy with pity.
@@ToastrodamusDamn man, I love this comment. My sister and I have a similar dynamic with my mother (not as dramatic as here, but definitely similar with the substance issues and tendencies for narcissism). I feel like I’ve always been the Carmy and she’s the Nat. She’s so overly empathetic and caring to everyone in the family in a way I just could never emulate, I have a need to hide away and do my own thing, but I’m 25 now and never really ‘launched’ in life; dead end job, never had a girlfriend, anxiety over change, etc. Growing up I feel like my sister always took care of me emotionally when things got rough, but we’ve grown distant since we became adults because I’m so distant with everyone and everything in general and really dissociate from anything negative or scary. I know we care about each other but our family’s so weird and dysfunctional that it’s had an impact on how I interact with those close to me, I’m not ‘present’ like she is. This episode was really relatable for me, and this comment really summed it up.
@@flightdub6056 I believe you can overcome all this, man. My story is just like yours in a lot of ways (even a sister) but I'm much older now. I wouldn't pretend to tell you what's good for you but I can tell you that art & creativity helped me very much - people like us have our imaginations stunted by our conditions, so it was important to get out into the world and expand my horizons.
This episode made me realize I only deal with regular, day-to-day anxiety, not a 24-hour madhouse psycho family fever dream anxiety. Had to smoke and grab a beer at the end of this one!
This episode made me realize my family acting like this isn't the norm. Led to a long conversation with my partner because I said it reminded me so much of my childhood.
100% - this is the equivalent of perusing the "Walmart people" site and concluding that, despite any internal doubts, you're actually doing pretty well 😆
I mean the characterization of Carmen is built around this kinda: controlled utility under abuse… “I’m unaffected by this madness because look what I can do”
Literally put this episode on when I got home last night and had to cut it off midway because it reminded me too much of my family and I couldn't handle that amount of stress and anxiety. Fantastic episode though 👏🏿
"are you okay" is a trauma response. I have BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder) and I often interpret sadness/negative emotions as being my fault in fear that I've done something to upset someone. "are you okay", "are we okay", "have I done something wrong". They're all very common phrases from someone who has basically been wired to feel or think a certain way. And as someone with a mother with problems with alcohol, touching base constantly to understand whether I could go out and see my friends or whether I had to stay home and play parent as a very young teen was common practice. Sugar, in this episode is trying to get her mother to communicate "are you okay". She's obviously not, the question isn't being asked because she doesn't know the answer, she's asking the question because her mother doesn't communicate. Sugar isn't wrong. She's falling back on a trauma response that she has almost no control over.
She's not in the wrong for asking Donna the question, but Mikey was correct when he warned Nat at the beginning of the episode that asking Donna that question was going to have a really bad outcome.
@@dtgstl3148 I never said otherwise. I agree with you. The problem I have mostly with Mikey, but also with their entire family is the lack of empathy/communication. If they learned to talk to one another the way Mikey asked it can be worded completely different and more productive, Donna would potentially be able to face her demons, and Mikey would've been able to face his, too.
@@dtgstl3148 Parents with histrionic personality disorder tendencies (very similar to BPD) often illicit caregiving responses from their children, especially when compounded with alcohol use disorder. Being the center of attention is their goal, they seek constant admiration and validation - even it reduces them to adopting a persona in which they are do-gooders, with no flaws, at the whims of unappreciative ingrates. They demand so much from their children whom are through experience raised to be fearful of their disappointment, and mood swings. They are masterful gaslighters. Natalie, with her good intentions, was much obliged to give her mother the spotlight she wanted. The woman drove a car into her home.
I feel like Mikey used to be a much calmer person but having to live with Donna and dealing with THAT on a regular basis helped lead to his addiction, depression and aggression.
What I realized while watching this reaction is that the mom definitely saw the tuna casserole splattered at the front of the house as she went to get in her car 😅
I imagine that Donna would’ve just driven around to cool off, but after seeing the casserole by the front door she wanted to absolutely obliterate it with the car…
A lot to unpack this episode: John Mulaney is a Chicago native, which makes it an inside joke that he’s not from Chicago in the show. The “is he gay” question is also from Mulaney’s standup. Gillian Jacobs was the voice in the season 1 finale on the answering machine. She’s in a relationship with the creator of the show, Christopher Storer. The picture Carmy gave Mikey can be seen in the season 1 premiere episode. It was hung in the bathroom of the restaurant. In the background, you can hear Mikey tell the Bill Murray story at various points in the episode. It’s never confirmed in or out of the show what exactly the relationship is to Uncle Lee, but in 2x3, Ritchie’s daughter calls Frank “Uncle Frank”, and Frank is someone Ritchie’s ex wife is dating as known in 2x5. So people assume Lee is someone Donna dated at some point rather than there being an actual blood relationship, but both could be true I guess. Mikey’s a momma’s boy. He picks up on Donna’s mannerisms. Throwing the forks mirrored Donna throwing the spoon at Stevie earlier in the episode. And Donna brought up shooting herself with the kid’s dad’s gun. And we know Mikey shot himself in 1x2, so he probably heard Donna say stuff like that all the time and imprinted those thoughts onto himself.
Lee is first referenced in the first episode of Season 2, when Carm is asking Uncle Jimmy for another $500K loan. Carm asks him what KBL stands for (the imprint on the bottom of the tomato cans), and Jimmy tells him it refers to Kalinowski (Jimmy), Berzatto, and Layne (Lee). Presumably Jimmy, Mikey, and Lee formed a business partnership at some point and called it KBL Electric.
Along the same lines as Stevie not being from Chicago (while Mulaney is), one of the few characters from the beginning of the show who doesn't actually ever cook anything is Fak, who is played by Matty Matheson. In real life, Matheson is a Canadian chef and restaurant owner who was hired to be a culinary consultant for the show, and at some point they asked him if he wanted to act on the show (even though he's not a trained actor), and his only condition was that he didn't want to play a chef, so they cast him as a handyman.
@@dtgstl3148 thanks. I did forget in that episode Lee was said to not be their uncle too. He could still possibly be some distant relative, but mom’s old boyfriend only seems much more likely.
@@dtgstl3148 I picked up on that too. I assume they grew up childhood friends like Mikey and Richie thus as a result are basically "brothers". When Donna's husband died I bet Lee started dating Donna at some point and the friction stems from there for Lee & Mikey. It's alluded to when Lee is helping Donna in the kitchen. He mentions buying a property that needs a realtor (as a way for her to make money and for them to spend time together). Mikey comes in goes to the fridge and asks "guys are we really doing this again"
Lee, Cicero, and Father Berzatto seem like they were really tight friends; but based on Cicero’s story in “Dogs” last season, Father Berzatto screwed around too much and MAYBE was also enduring some Donna’s mess before leaving the family… hence how Lee is “trying to clean up a mess”, not unlike Cicero maybe was and is trying to, both feeling unfit for the job that much more so as Mikey and Donna descend into their problems
Mikey I think is already aware he’s not coming back. He’s trying to keep carm as far away from his mess as possible. Carmie sees this as rejection but I think it’s Michael’s way of being protective in the only way he can.
Possibly, but note that this episode took place at least 3 or 4 years before Michael actually committed suicide (his date of death is shown as February 22, 2022 in the pilot episode). The show starts four months after Mikey's death, so it begins in roughly June 2022 (which is exactly when the series was released). This season starts in late February 2023 (their timeline to open is three months, which would be late May 2023). Anyway, Mikey was clearly already spiraling and had been for some time when this episode takes place, but it's hard to say if he was already actively planning his suicide in this episode. Surely he had contemplated suicide by that point in his story, but I don't know how common it is for people to plot their suicide out 3+ years in advance. Usually it's the sort of thing that is decided shortly before it is acted upon, because it would be extremely hard to hide that plan from people around you for years. Something would surely slip out at some point, and once somebody else knows, it becomes a lot more difficult to follow through with it.
@@dtgstl3148 it's more common than you think. Not many people commit suicide without having seriously considered it for months, if not years beforehand - even if, and ESPECIALLY if, they have discussed it with someone. Trust me.
Your exhausted, uncomfortable reactions at the end are exactly how everyone feels when first watching this episode, and exactly how it wants you to feel. It's an uncomfortable, terrifying, exhausting, and claustrophobic episode. One of the best episodes of television I've ever seen.
6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1
And all of that with this show being a COMEDY like what?? Sure buddy it’s comedy.
This episode broke my partner and sent her through a PTSD / anxiety episode because it hit to close to home... That can tell you how well they made their job to represent and transmit emotions to the viewers
At the same time, as the quote goes, doing the same thing over and over while expecting a different result is the definition of insanity. If Sugar knows asking that question will set their mom off EVERY time... well science and common sense dictate that you should stop asking her, unless you WANT to set her off. Sugar is just too nice (for a Berzatto) of a person to accept that her help is lnt wanted. That's why Pete, the best actual person of the show, is with her.
She's not wrong but her timing isn't the best. Cooking a Holiday meal, especially that extravagant, is extremely stressful even for fully functioning individuals. Interventions and confrontations about mental health, alcoholism, etc are tough and it has to be the right time otherwise the person one cares about shuts down or gets angrier. Confronting someone at the wrong time could make things far worse.
@@eliezeririzarry247 I think people are missing the point that Nat isn't asking on purpose, it's a compulsion. it's a trauma response to a lifetime of dealing with a mother who is mentally unstable like Donna.
@@the_nikster1perfectly said! it’s so painful to see people blame nat for reacting to donna the way she does. she isn’t stupid, she’d stop if she could 💔
Calvin is right: it's a compulsion with Sugar to ask her mom if she's ok. I've been waiting so long to watch the full-length of this episode and you guys did NOT disappoint. I felt l like I was in the room watching with you, feeling the tension rise. I can't wait til next week for Forks. 😃
I’ve found that people’s initial reactions to this episode are very telling of the type/amount of family dysfunction they were exposed to. Humans are wild!
When I first saw it, I couldn't believe people have conversations like this. I would just leave if I was in a house like that, I couldn't take 5 minutes of it.
One of my favourite subtle moments is that Mikey disappears after getting upset over the restaurant idea then, when he returns, his behaviour is different and he's got a blanket around his shoulders. You see Richie notice and look concerned, and it must be because he realises Mikey has taken something. So Mikey is seeing things through a drug addled fog during the whole confrontation with Lee.
The discussion of Natalie was really interesting because I think perspective is limited to the fact that you guys don't really know what it's like to be the only daughter. Natalie is very much a caretaker in the home BECAUSE Donna isn't capable of doing so. Only daughters are often parentified and I think that's why she is constantly compelled to ask "are you okay?" because Donna certainly isn't going to help if one of the brothers says no I'm not okay, because Donna is ALL about Donna.
That’s fair, but I also think Michael became broken by trying and failing to fill the void of their father (who I believe has passed, but also left the family before so 🤷♂️); to your point it was maybe the male trope of electing more burden than capable, which was noted of Berzatto Sr
@@hellfish2309 Oh I agree with you! I think that's actually serving my point even better. Think about how these two older children are being parentified to take care of their mother and their youngest brother and how that is genuinely fucking with them. I think they are both struggling but I got the sense the guys weren't really understanding WHY Natalie kept asking "Are you okay?" and why it's not just something she can stop doing so that she doesn't trigger her mother (which the fact that they have to tiptoe around their mother is a whole other but very connected story)
This episode and next episode are hands down the absolute best of The Bear, this episode is the perfect example of how you do guest stars, cast incredible actors as characters that are important to that one specific episode and let them act their ass off
So there’s a fan theory that says the reason why Donna ran her car into the house is because when she walked out the front door, she saw the eighth fish that Natalie threw out there, and that sent her even more over the edge.
I highly recommend watching the full-length reaction. Seeing the anxiety and exhaustion throughout was exactly how I was. My family is similar to the Berzattos (but obviously toned down a lot; no cars through houses yet). Mental health issues, alcoholism, anxiety - many holidays have given me the exact same anxiety as this episode.
Yes, she is the first cousin of Mikey, Natalie and Carmy - she's referred to as "Cousin Michelle" in the credits, and since we know her last name is also Berzatto, it's reasonable to deduce that she's their cousin. She's probably a few years older than Mikey, but much closer in age to him and his siblings than she is to Donna and whoever their dad was.
"Gravy" is what some Italian families call pasta sauce. My relatives call it that. It may be a Southern Italian thing. My family is from Calabria and Sicily.
I personally couldn't finish this episode, it took me 4 different times to get through it because it's too real. My childhood was very much like this. If anyone thinks the show went over the top with anything, assure you it was close to being spot on.
29:32 I think Calvin is absolutely right and Eric has some great observations of the mom.. they are a product of their environment. The children are showing how they care in different ways. None particularly healthy because they were not raised healthy. It's very complex. So to say she should just not ask is being rational in a situation that is not rational. It's easier said than done. Emotions and fear in a situation don't always make for common sense.
Fishes is the greatest episode of television ever made in my opinion. Its comedic at the perfect times, as dramatic as possible at other times, anxiety inducing at all times, and jam packed full of elite acting. Its an absolute masterpiece.
This is a rare 10/10 episode of TV for me. There isn’t a wasted moment and the tension fake release tension fake release structure is so good at depicting the constant tension of generational trauma
Eric looks like he’s gonna present the new iPhone -Eric cracking me up with the faces and stress ball -JLC crushed it, I expect an Emmy for guest performance. You know the show is so respected bc u don’t get all those actors in pretty small parts with them want to be apart of something they enjoy. JLC told her agent or show creator that if they need a mom , I’m doing it.
I believe bob odenkirk's character is called uncle jimmy because he was friends with the father. Just like Uncle Cicero was. And also friends of the family like Richie are called cousin
Uncle Lee* Likely Jimmy, Lee, and Berzatto Sr were all really tight friends, and Cicero and Lee are desperately trying and failing to be helpful to Donna and the kids
Cicero is Jimmy. James Kalinowski, to be precise. Not sure where exactly the Cicero nickname comes from - I know there's a Cook County suburb of Chicago called Cicero, so I assume it has something to do with that, but what exactly, I have no idea. His alleged mob ties are never directly referenced, only alluded to, so I'm not sure if that's just something that's a little played up. It definitely seemed plausible to me when his character first appears, but as you get to know him more, you see he's actually a big softie, so it's hard to reconcile that with the idea that he's involved with an organization that routinely orders hits on people. My guess is that he's really just an affluent and extremely well connected businessman but nobody knows exactly what he does, so they all just assume "mafia". Probably has done some legally questionable things to keep the government from knowing how much money he has (tax evasion), but other than that, I really don't see him as the violent type.
This is extremely close to how my family holidays in an Italian household are, especially with my immediate family. The anxiety and stress is crazy and exhausting. Like Carmy, I’m the youngest sibling who moved away for a while and came back. Even though it hits home for me, this episode is still AMAZING! I can’t wait for “Forks” next week!
One of the best shot, performed, and edited episodes of television ever produced. So good in fact that it hits a tad too close to home for many people, me included.
"no one's... physically... very sick..." 😆😆😆😆 From the viewer's emotional perspective, this episode is the brutal fight, the next one is the makeup sex 😁
I get that they're simple Midwest farmboys but 1) Does Aaron not know what cannolis are and 2) Does he think an Italian mom made burritos for Christmas?
"Uncle" Lee Layne (Bob Odenkirk) is not actually their uncle, he's Donna's on-again, off-again boyfriend. Uncle Jimmy (also not their actual uncle) makes a reference to him in S2E1, when he explains to Carmen that KBL stands for Kalinowski (Jimmy), Berzatto, and Layne (Lee). Carmen asks, "Lee? Who's Lee?", to which Nat responds, "Uncle Lee Layne" and Carmen replies back, "Oof. That's not our uncle", to which Nat responds, "Yeah, well, Richie's not your cousin". Richie hears her from another room and replies, "Heard and resented." Michelle Berzatto (Sarah Paulson) is the actual paternal cousin of Mikey, Nat, and Carm, as she has the same last name as them. Stevie is her boyfriend or husband (they never really clarify that). She grew up in Chicago, but moved to New York City at some point, presumably to get away from their crazy family. Where Mikey, Nat, and Carm's father is is never really explained, we just know that he's out of the picture and has been for a very long time. In S1E4 (Dogs), Carm asked Uncle Jimmy about him when he saw an old picture of them (Jimmy and Carm's dad) together at the 1992 Chicago Bulls championship rally, and Uncle Jimmy says he hasn't seen him in 20 years. Carm indicates that he barely knew his father, so presumably he was out of the picture very early in Carm's life.
Jimmy not being their actual uncle’s debatable. In 1x4, Jimmy says more like friends than family, which implies some blood relation between the two still. Whether he and the dad were brothers, cousins, or related some other manner is up for debate, but I know I call distant relatives “uncle” and “aunt” for simplicity’s sake despite them not being my direct uncle/aunt. Admittedly, I do that for close family friends to not directly related, but still think “Uncle” Jimmy has a chance of being blood to the Berzattos.
@@robertdelossantos5844 He's definitely not the brother of Carmen's dad, because Jimmy's last name is Kalinowski. So if he is actually Carmy's uncle, it would either be through marriage (ie Jimmy married Carmen's dad's sister) or he is Donna's brother. Also worth noting that Richie, who is definitely not related to the Berzattos, also refers to Jimmy as "Uncle Jimmy".
@@dtgstl3148 the kiss and remarks to Donna makes it weird if he’s Donna’s brother imo. But still think the dad’s cousin or even Dad’s uncle makes sense.
Very good points on Jimmy, although could be half brother with different dads hence different last names. It is a little confusing with the name part, because I know brothers who have basically not spoken in years. And the way he told the story at the birthday party it sounded like they were brothers. Need to rewatch that scene
@@robertdelossantos5844carmy wouldn’t have said “that’s not our uncle” if he was their uncle so it’s safe to assume he isn’t. i think it’s just a chicagoan thing. eva (richie’s daughter) called the man her mother is dating “uncle frank” in episode 3 but then we hear in episode 7 that he’d proposed to tiff. it’s a thing they do. lee isn’t related.
This episode was literally so real. Towards the end everything about the episode makes you really feel like you’re sitting at the table with the rest of their family. One of the greatest episodes of Television I’ve EVER watched.
I watched this show with my mom and when we got to this episode she kept drawing comparisons to Donna and her mother, my grandmother. Who is also very narcissistic. She actually had to pause the episode cause it was giving her flashbacks
i was eric the first time i watched this. i pretty much binged the show in the early morning but when i reached this ep, i had to really stop and process what happened. took half a day off until i felt i was mentally prepared only to be cuddled by "Forks". The two best episodes on TV drama in recent memory.
I noticed that Steven was the only one who acknowledged Pete's good intention. Basically, Steven is just Pete but with experience to the family. We see it when he tried to help Donna which shows he's right in the middle of Pete being entirely clueless and everyone else who are family for a long time. Note: Just watched the episode and haven't seen the rest yet but wanted to see y'all's reaction. So don't spoil me please LOL.
Tragic masterpiece. What an episode. Pure cinema. AND THE CAST IS SUPERSTAR LOADED? What a lineup. Perfect portrayal of DYSFUNCTIONAL yet super loving family, but also BIPOLAR DISORDER from the mother. Bipolar disorder is also genetic usually. Natalie (the daughter) kept triggering her too, by asking “are you okay” a million times. That’s why Carmen holds himself back and keeps everything buried, because his biggest fear is turning into something like that. His family is his biggest fear. He knows it’s genetic too. Carmen has been on the edge of blowing up for so damn long
Like I've said a dozen times already, this episode was A LOT! It was so realistic and chaotic, and it really makes me anxious and have flashbacks of how I grew up, but it is SO well done. One of my favorite episodes of TV ever, but it is so hard to rewatch because of those feelings it gives. I felt like I was holding my breath the whole episode, and I had a whole breakdown after it ended, but, man, it's incredible!
so excited to see you guys react and discuss to these last episodes of the season 😄 I’ve been waiting not so patiently since y’all started season 1 lol
One of the most brilliant episodes of TV. Soooo powerful. Loved seeing this with you guys. I could feel your anxiety. Gives such context to all the characters in the present. And Carmy has inherited some of his moms rage. The depth of mental illness and repressed trauma is dense in this show. And done so well.
One of the realest moments of this episode is when Nat says, “I love you.” to Michael. As a brother, if one of your siblings hits you with that look and all they can say is, “I love you.” you know you’re about to royally fuck something up. It’s a devastating feeling and Jon Bernthal’s response is so good. You can see the words reach him.
36:15 yeah the m&ms story is from the early days of stadium shows with pyro. The idea was to know how careful the stadium was with the riders on the contract. If the m&ms weren’t done, they wouldn’t trust the pyro. As someone whos been a backstage person for decades, those are very different departments. But it’s a good story.
Fishes and Forks are IMHO the best episodes of this season. I've watched this episode multiple times and the chaos and the tension of this dysfunctional family gets me every time. The acting is incredible!
GO BEYOND at blindwave.com where you can watch Full Length Reactions and 1 MONTH Early Access!!
BEYOND Members and Raw Rider Patrons can watch the Full Length Reaction HERE: blindwave.com/video/the-bear-2x06-full/
26:34 “…flaws are so foundational” interesting description since Lee spoke about buying a property w/ a cracked foundation
my man on the right has problems He's advocating for fake characters on a tv show, that are the cause of the problems. The mother created this, everyone else is coping. To blame other peoples coping mechanisms is wild , and telling. It usually means, that person, is also in a similar situation, and refuses to deal with it.
Cicero is the scariest guardian angel ever. He saves these people over and over again but their kneecaps are always in the balance
He's also the only person in that room I would trust with my life.
The genius of this show is making this work and not having these cameos be a distraction. It had the potential to be a cameo fest but they integrated into their roles in one episode seamlessly
Felt like it could have been a completely isolated movie with an insanely good ensemble. There’s enough done in the script and the performances to work out where they all fit in the family, etc.
The fact that it then completely fits into the overall arc of the show and strengthens the backgrounds of so many of the characters is an amazing achievement
Actually the cameos “being a distraction” was also an intentional choice by Storer. From an interview with him on the LA Times:
“I wanted it to be distracting,” Storer said. “I wanted the viewer to be like, ‘What the f- is Bob Odenkirk doing here?’ I wanted it to really feel like when you walk into your family’s house and you are just overwhelmed by a cousin who you don’t want to talk to, an uncle you don’t want to see. You don’t even know who’s related to who, which I always feel like is the truest thing - everyone’s calling each other cousin and you don’t know what the f- is really going on, but you do know that even through all their weirdness and how dark it gets, they do kind of love each other.”
@@James_MacX Yeah this episode is one of the rare episodes in a TV show that could stand alone with zero context.
also the cameos make the audience pay attention to every character and not focus in on any particular one
My favourite part of that side of things is the poor woman who exists in this episode, and is the only one without lines. I spent those fleeting moments on screen trying to see her face clearly, which is funny when she's surrounded by well known actors at all times. I assume she's called Carol from the credits and it would have been even funnier if she was somehow an even bigger named actress than even JLC.
Carmen's mom is the perfect example of an undiagnosed bipolar parent ruining the entire family.
You forgot alcoholic
@@Freeman_W that goes hand in hand a lot of the times
For those who have watched Shameless... we def saw the parallels and I felt sorry for Lip/Carm for having to deal with both roles amidst such chaos, he def deserves all the praise he's getting n will continue to get for this show.
And Nat is the perfect example of a parentified child, who feels the need to be nurturing and empathetic even when the response she gets from the parent is abusive. Mikey and Carmy let it bounce off them more easily, but Nat can't because she has a need to make things okay.
I'm not sure it's just bipolar. Wasn't she accusing Carmen of giving her shit when he hadn't said anything?
Calvin is 100% right. The "dynamic of the individual children" is key. Natalie is the middle child and the only daughter. It wouldn't be realistic for her to handle things like Michael or Carmy because they clearly weren't raised the same way. The story of how she got her nickname tells me everything I need to know about their childhood, I feel for her lol.
Someone else pointed out that Natalie chews her lips bloody out of stress during the kitchen scene
she is the Pete of the Berzattos largely because of Donna’s dysfunction: the challenging question for her character is whether she’ll stay “good” and relatively uncorrupted or will she lose what makes her ‘sugar’ as she’s folded into the restaurant and entering motherhood
Yeah like how you would assume that Sugar is a nickname coming from a place of love or endearment. And to find out that it's based in their mom making fun of her for a mistake she made as a kid, it's just sad 😔
It’s crazy that this episode was so good and then they immediately topped it with Forks…Such a good show.
Talk about rollercoaster of emotions
yeah this show is insanely good. Cannot wait for S3 coming June 27th.
Fishes is better
I loved Forks, but Fishes was the best episode of the series so far for me. One of the best two episode runs in TV history.
@@snerdterguson I think Fishes is probably the "better" episode, but Forks is much more enjoyable.
Jamie Lee Curtis said in an interview that she wanted to play this role because she was such a big fan of the first season of The Bear and whenever she noticed that no one played Donna in the first season she told her agent to try and convince the show runners to let her play the part.
The slow zooms on Carm and Sugar at the end are some fucking A24 horror movie shit. God I feel for those two. Also, Stevie is the MVP of this episode. His tension breaking humor is an absolute necessity throughout this chaos. Cant wait for next week's reaction, easily my favorite episode of the season and the perfect follow up to this in terms of tone.
So many times I thought, "okay, this is when I would fake a headache and leave" . I can't believe Steven stuck it out AND thanked them for inviting him into that chaos.
I can't tell you how funny I find everyone's relentless and senseless abuse of Pete. He's such a nice guy and the only reason he gets dumped on is that he is as far away from being a Berzatto as a person can be. I think that's probably why Natalie loves him.
Fuggin Naperville looking shmo 😉
Also, re: Donna - She's a huge force for good or for ill. Her personality is massive. The three kids have spent decades walking on eggshells around her, so as not to set her off. It's natural, because kids don't judge their parents, so she never gets confronted. Each kid has reacted in different ways - Michael imitated her, and that's how he pulled the very insecure Richie into his orbit. Nat decided to placate her mom, which gave her lots of empathy but also made her too sensitive. Carmy just dissociated - he went away in his head, and disengaged himself from his situation mentally. As a result, he didn't do well in school, he had no friends, and never had a girlfriend. He spaces out, and loses focus, because that's what he's always done to protect himself. So at the end of the episode you have Michael screaming, Carmy going completely blank, and Nat looking on Carmy with pity.
@@ToastrodamusDamn man, I love this comment. My sister and I have a similar dynamic with my mother (not as dramatic as here, but definitely similar with the substance issues and tendencies for narcissism). I feel like I’ve always been the Carmy and she’s the Nat.
She’s so overly empathetic and caring to everyone in the family in a way I just could never emulate, I have a need to hide away and do my own thing, but I’m 25 now and never really ‘launched’ in life; dead end job, never had a girlfriend, anxiety over change, etc. Growing up I feel like my sister always took care of me emotionally when things got rough, but we’ve grown distant since we became adults because I’m so distant with everyone and everything in general and really dissociate from anything negative or scary. I know we care about each other but our family’s so weird and dysfunctional that it’s had an impact on how I interact with those close to me, I’m not ‘present’ like she is. This episode was really relatable for me, and this comment really summed it up.
@@flightdub6056 I believe you can overcome all this, man. My story is just like yours in a lot of ways (even a sister) but I'm much older now. I wouldn't pretend to tell you what's good for you but I can tell you that art & creativity helped me very much - people like us have our imaginations stunted by our conditions, so it was important to get out into the world and expand my horizons.
This episode made me realize I only deal with regular, day-to-day anxiety, not a 24-hour madhouse psycho family fever dream anxiety. Had to smoke and grab a beer at the end of this one!
This episode made me realize my family acting like this isn't the norm. Led to a long conversation with my partner because I said it reminded me so much of my childhood.
100% - this is the equivalent of perusing the "Walmart people" site and concluding that, despite any internal doubts, you're actually doing pretty well 😆
I mean the characterization of Carmen is built around this kinda: controlled utility under abuse… “I’m unaffected by this madness because look what I can do”
Literally put this episode on when I got home last night and had to cut it off midway because it reminded me too much of my family and I couldn't handle that amount of stress and anxiety. Fantastic episode though 👏🏿
One of the few episodes of television I’ve seen that feels like it’s legitimately trying to hurt you.
Best episode of the show.
And just when you think the wound has clotted and beginning to scab… 👉👈 the fridge…
"are you okay" is a trauma response. I have BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder) and I often interpret sadness/negative emotions as being my fault in fear that I've done something to upset someone. "are you okay", "are we okay", "have I done something wrong". They're all very common phrases from someone who has basically been wired to feel or think a certain way.
And as someone with a mother with problems with alcohol, touching base constantly to understand whether I could go out and see my friends or whether I had to stay home and play parent as a very young teen was common practice.
Sugar, in this episode is trying to get her mother to communicate "are you okay". She's obviously not, the question isn't being asked because she doesn't know the answer, she's asking the question because her mother doesn't communicate.
Sugar isn't wrong. She's falling back on a trauma response that she has almost no control over.
Yes! And the episode ending with her reaction/shock says a lot too imo
She's not in the wrong for asking Donna the question, but Mikey was correct when he warned Nat at the beginning of the episode that asking Donna that question was going to have a really bad outcome.
@@dtgstl3148 I never said otherwise. I agree with you.
The problem I have mostly with Mikey, but also with their entire family is the lack of empathy/communication. If they learned to talk to one another the way Mikey asked it can be worded completely different and more productive, Donna would potentially be able to face her demons, and Mikey would've been able to face his, too.
@@dtgstl3148 Parents with histrionic personality disorder tendencies (very similar to BPD) often illicit caregiving responses from their children, especially when compounded with alcohol use disorder. Being the center of attention is their goal, they seek constant admiration and validation - even it reduces them to adopting a persona in which they are do-gooders, with no flaws, at the whims of unappreciative ingrates. They demand so much from their children whom are through experience raised to be fearful of their disappointment, and mood swings. They are masterful gaslighters. Natalie, with her good intentions, was much obliged to give her mother the spotlight she wanted.
The woman drove a car into her home.
I feel like Mikey used to be a much calmer person but having to live with Donna and dealing with THAT on a regular basis helped lead to his addiction, depression and aggression.
What I realized while watching this reaction is that the mom definitely saw the tuna casserole splattered at the front of the house as she went to get in her car 😅
Holyyyy shit I didn’t notice that
That's freaking hilarious LMAO.
I imagine that Donna would’ve just driven around to cool off, but after seeing the casserole by the front door she wanted to absolutely obliterate it with the car…
"im exhausted" I think that sums up this amazing episode. So much thrown at ya
A lot to unpack this episode:
John Mulaney is a Chicago native, which makes it an inside joke that he’s not from Chicago in the show. The “is he gay” question is also from Mulaney’s standup.
Gillian Jacobs was the voice in the season 1 finale on the answering machine. She’s in a relationship with the creator of the show, Christopher Storer.
The picture Carmy gave Mikey can be seen in the season 1 premiere episode. It was hung in the bathroom of the restaurant.
In the background, you can hear Mikey tell the Bill Murray story at various points in the episode.
It’s never confirmed in or out of the show what exactly the relationship is to Uncle Lee, but in 2x3, Ritchie’s daughter calls Frank “Uncle Frank”, and Frank is someone Ritchie’s ex wife is dating as known in 2x5. So people assume Lee is someone Donna dated at some point rather than there being an actual blood relationship, but both could be true I guess.
Mikey’s a momma’s boy. He picks up on Donna’s mannerisms. Throwing the forks mirrored Donna throwing the spoon at Stevie earlier in the episode. And Donna brought up shooting herself with the kid’s dad’s gun. And we know Mikey shot himself in 1x2, so he probably heard Donna say stuff like that all the time and imprinted those thoughts onto himself.
Lee is first referenced in the first episode of Season 2, when Carm is asking Uncle Jimmy for another $500K loan. Carm asks him what KBL stands for (the imprint on the bottom of the tomato cans), and Jimmy tells him it refers to Kalinowski (Jimmy), Berzatto, and Layne (Lee). Presumably Jimmy, Mikey, and Lee formed a business partnership at some point and called it KBL Electric.
Along the same lines as Stevie not being from Chicago (while Mulaney is), one of the few characters from the beginning of the show who doesn't actually ever cook anything is Fak, who is played by Matty Matheson. In real life, Matheson is a Canadian chef and restaurant owner who was hired to be a culinary consultant for the show, and at some point they asked him if he wanted to act on the show (even though he's not a trained actor), and his only condition was that he didn't want to play a chef, so they cast him as a handyman.
@@dtgstl3148 thanks. I did forget in that episode Lee was said to not be their uncle too. He could still possibly be some distant relative, but mom’s old boyfriend only seems much more likely.
@@dtgstl3148 I picked up on that too. I assume they grew up childhood friends like Mikey and Richie thus as a result are basically "brothers". When Donna's husband died I bet Lee started dating Donna at some point and the friction stems from there for Lee & Mikey. It's alluded to when Lee is helping Donna in the kitchen. He mentions buying a property that needs a realtor (as a way for her to make money and for them to spend time together). Mikey comes in goes to the fridge and asks "guys are we really doing this again"
Lee, Cicero, and Father Berzatto seem like they were really tight friends; but based on Cicero’s story in “Dogs” last season, Father Berzatto screwed around too much and MAYBE was also enduring some Donna’s mess before leaving the family… hence how Lee is “trying to clean up a mess”, not unlike Cicero maybe was and is trying to, both feeling unfit for the job that much more so as Mikey and Donna descend into their problems
"Little burrito things" = Cannolis. This is relevant information.
I agree
Mikey I think is already aware he’s not coming back. He’s trying to keep carm as far away from his mess as possible. Carmie sees this as rejection but I think it’s Michael’s way of being protective in the only way he can.
Possibly, but note that this episode took place at least 3 or 4 years before Michael actually committed suicide (his date of death is shown as February 22, 2022 in the pilot episode). The show starts four months after Mikey's death, so it begins in roughly June 2022 (which is exactly when the series was released). This season starts in late February 2023 (their timeline to open is three months, which would be late May 2023).
Anyway, Mikey was clearly already spiraling and had been for some time when this episode takes place, but it's hard to say if he was already actively planning his suicide in this episode. Surely he had contemplated suicide by that point in his story, but I don't know how common it is for people to plot their suicide out 3+ years in advance. Usually it's the sort of thing that is decided shortly before it is acted upon, because it would be extremely hard to hide that plan from people around you for years. Something would surely slip out at some point, and once somebody else knows, it becomes a lot more difficult to follow through with it.
@@dtgstl3148 it's more common than you think. Not many people commit suicide without having seriously considered it for months, if not years beforehand - even if, and ESPECIALLY if, they have discussed it with someone. Trust me.
@@dtgstl3148 I think the picture was definitely the moment that started the "beginning of the end", as it were.
Explains how traumatized the kids are living in that household when younger. Can one even imagine how challenging that was--and the aftermath???
20:38 lee: "well it's out, and now everyone can relax, huh?"
eric: raises stress ball in visible agony
I think Carmy giving the picture to Mikey is what lead to him getting the loan from Unc and hiding it away
Your exhausted, uncomfortable reactions at the end are exactly how everyone feels when first watching this episode, and exactly how it wants you to feel. It's an uncomfortable, terrifying, exhausting, and claustrophobic episode. One of the best episodes of television I've ever seen.
And all of that with this show being a COMEDY like what?? Sure buddy it’s comedy.
It's so priceless seeing Saul Goodman roasting The Punisher.
For me this is the best episode of the series so far, and one of the most tense I have ever seen, it is the perfect definition of Time Bomb
This episode broke my partner and sent her through a PTSD / anxiety episode because it hit to close to home... That can tell you how well they made their job to represent and transmit emotions to the viewers
Sugar is not in wrong/doesnt realise when she asking again and again if her mom is okay she is just in trauma response mode
At the same time, as the quote goes, doing the same thing over and over while expecting a different result is the definition of insanity.
If Sugar knows asking that question will set their mom off EVERY time... well science and common sense dictate that you should stop asking her, unless you WANT to set her off.
Sugar is just too nice (for a Berzatto) of a person to accept that her help is lnt wanted. That's why Pete, the best actual person of the show, is with her.
It’s clearly a side effect of how living with this type of trauma/abuse has had on her over the years
She's not wrong but her timing isn't the best. Cooking a Holiday meal, especially that extravagant, is extremely stressful even for fully functioning individuals. Interventions and confrontations about mental health, alcoholism, etc are tough and it has to be the right time otherwise the person one cares about shuts down or gets angrier. Confronting someone at the wrong time could make things far worse.
@@eliezeririzarry247 I think people are missing the point that Nat isn't asking on purpose, it's a compulsion. it's a trauma response to a lifetime of dealing with a mother who is mentally unstable like Donna.
@@the_nikster1perfectly said! it’s so painful to see people blame nat for reacting to donna the way she does. she isn’t stupid, she’d stop if she could 💔
Calvin is right: it's a compulsion with Sugar to ask her mom if she's ok.
I've been waiting so long to watch the full-length of this episode and you guys did NOT disappoint. I felt l like I was in the room watching with you, feeling the tension rise.
I can't wait til next week for Forks. 😃
I’ve found that people’s initial reactions to this episode are very telling of the type/amount of family dysfunction they were exposed to. Humans are wild!
When I first saw it, I couldn't believe people have conversations like this. I would just leave if I was in a house like that, I couldn't take 5 minutes of it.
@@stevemarteganithat's awesome😮 when I first saw this episode i thought "yo who tf recorded my family?"
@@pigeon842 and my own reaction was an experience salad of both of yall 😂
One of my favourite subtle moments is that Mikey disappears after getting upset over the restaurant idea then, when he returns, his behaviour is different and he's got a blanket around his shoulders. You see Richie notice and look concerned, and it must be because he realises Mikey has taken something. So Mikey is seeing things through a drug addled fog during the whole confrontation with Lee.
The discussion of Natalie was really interesting because I think perspective is limited to the fact that you guys don't really know what it's like to be the only daughter. Natalie is very much a caretaker in the home BECAUSE Donna isn't capable of doing so. Only daughters are often parentified and I think that's why she is constantly compelled to ask "are you okay?" because Donna certainly isn't going to help if one of the brothers says no I'm not okay, because Donna is ALL about Donna.
That’s fair, but I also think Michael became broken by trying and failing to fill the void of their father (who I believe has passed, but also left the family before so 🤷♂️); to your point it was maybe the male trope of electing more burden than capable, which was noted of Berzatto Sr
@@hellfish2309 Oh I agree with you! I think that's actually serving my point even better. Think about how these two older children are being parentified to take care of their mother and their youngest brother and how that is genuinely fucking with them. I think they are both struggling but I got the sense the guys weren't really understanding WHY Natalie kept asking "Are you okay?" and why it's not just something she can stop doing so that she doesn't trigger her mother (which the fact that they have to tiptoe around their mother is a whole other but very connected story)
This episode and next episode are hands down the absolute best of The Bear, this episode is the perfect example of how you do guest stars, cast incredible actors as characters that are important to that one specific episode and let them act their ass off
So there’s a fan theory that says the reason why Donna ran her car into the house is because when she walked out the front door, she saw the eighth fish that Natalie threw out there, and that sent her even more over the edge.
I highly recommend watching the full-length reaction. Seeing the anxiety and exhaustion throughout was exactly how I was.
My family is similar to the Berzattos (but obviously toned down a lot; no cars through houses yet). Mental health issues, alcoholism, anxiety - many holidays have given me the exact same anxiety as this episode.
same here and everyone always asks my why i hate the holidays lmao this is why!!
Your comment made me go watch it, you were right. Holy moly! Eric was stressed 😂
@@Quzga I didn't know if he would physically be able to finish! I can't wait for the next reaction!
@@WhoDoYouKnow03 me too, they need some Taylor swift fueled Richie after that Rollercoaster!
I love these guys but I am not paying money to watch someone else watch something. That is insane.
the way that natalie disappears into herself around her mother was… yeah. very relatable
26:21 No dudes! Michelle had a whole story about her last name (Berzatto), so she is part of the family (probably a cousin to carmy)
she is carmy’s cousin. that’s why she wanted carmy to come to new york pursue culinary and leave the house (& leave the mom’s orbit)
Yes, she is the first cousin of Mikey, Natalie and Carmy - she's referred to as "Cousin Michelle" in the credits, and since we know her last name is also Berzatto, it's reasonable to deduce that she's their cousin. She's probably a few years older than Mikey, but much closer in age to him and his siblings than she is to Donna and whoever their dad was.
This seemed to really hit home and effect Calvin. Sending you love dude! ❤
"Gravy" is what some Italian families call pasta sauce. My relatives call it that. It may be a Southern Italian thing. My family is from Calabria and Sicily.
My family also has Sicilian origins and it's called gravy. "Spaghetti gravy" or "Sunday gravy" for example.
I personally couldn't finish this episode, it took me 4 different times to get through it because it's too real. My childhood was very much like this. If anyone thinks the show went over the top with anything, assure you it was close to being spot on.
Aaron doing mental gymnastics to justify their mothers behavior is crazy lmao
29:32 I think Calvin is absolutely right and Eric has some great observations of the mom.. they are a product of their environment. The children are showing how they care in different ways. None particularly healthy because they were not raised healthy. It's very complex. So to say she should just not ask is being rational in a situation that is not rational. It's easier said than done. Emotions and fear in a situation don't always make for common sense.
You have to be served Fishes so Forks can shine.
Episodes 6 and 7 are the reason I finally subscribed to your Patreon.
When JLC heard them mention the mom in the very first episode of season 1 she said to herself that she was going to play the Mom.
Fishes is the greatest episode of television ever made in my opinion. Its comedic at the perfect times, as dramatic as possible at other times, anxiety inducing at all times, and jam packed full of elite acting. Its an absolute masterpiece.
This is a rare 10/10 episode of TV for me. There isn’t a wasted moment and the tension fake release tension fake release structure is so good at depicting the constant tension of generational trauma
Eric looks like he’s gonna present the new iPhone
-Eric cracking me up with the faces and stress ball
-JLC crushed it, I expect an Emmy for guest performance. You know the show is so respected bc u don’t get all those actors in pretty small parts with them want to be apart of something they enjoy. JLC told her agent or show creator that if they need a mom , I’m doing it.
In my opinion the best episode of a series of all time.
Funny thing is Sugar uses other forms of “are you ok” like “are you sure you’re good.” No big reaction
2:40 THIS IS MY HAPPY VOICE! Aaron said calmly.
I believe bob odenkirk's character is called uncle jimmy because he was friends with the father. Just like Uncle Cicero was. And also friends of the family like Richie are called cousin
Uncle Lee*
Likely Jimmy, Lee, and Berzatto Sr were all really tight friends, and Cicero and Lee are desperately trying and failing to be helpful to Donna and the kids
Cicero is Jimmy. James Kalinowski, to be precise. Not sure where exactly the Cicero nickname comes from - I know there's a Cook County suburb of Chicago called Cicero, so I assume it has something to do with that, but what exactly, I have no idea. His alleged mob ties are never directly referenced, only alluded to, so I'm not sure if that's just something that's a little played up. It definitely seemed plausible to me when his character first appears, but as you get to know him more, you see he's actually a big softie, so it's hard to reconcile that with the idea that he's involved with an organization that routinely orders hits on people. My guess is that he's really just an affluent and extremely well connected businessman but nobody knows exactly what he does, so they all just assume "mafia". Probably has done some legally questionable things to keep the government from knowing how much money he has (tax evasion), but other than that, I really don't see him as the violent type.
Been waiting for this specific episode for ages!
Can't wait for S3 this month!
This is extremely close to how my family holidays in an Italian household are, especially with my immediate family. The anxiety and stress is crazy and exhausting. Like Carmy, I’m the youngest sibling who moved away for a while and came back.
Even though it hits home for me, this episode is still AMAZING! I can’t wait for “Forks” next week!
I cried so hard during this episode I didn’t know why…I have issues but dam this got me. I was 🍃
One of the best shot, performed, and edited episodes of television ever produced. So good in fact that it hits a tad too close to home for many people, me included.
I was speechless after this episode
This is one of the greatest episodes of TV I've ever watched imo! I can't name many other things which have made me feel so much in such a short time
Pete is too good for the show lol
it's crazy that they recognized everyone except for sarah paulson lolol
18:07 Aaron: “Oh good - she’s here…”😆😆
So Aaron is unfamiliar with Mother Bears…
Been waiting for this one, let’s goooo!! Such good writing, acting, everything in this episode, might be a top 5 ep of TV for me all time
They wanted him to throw the fork, so Forks is what they threw to us next.
This was one of the must stressful hours of tv I've ever endured. It gave me heart palpitations and heart burn. I was so stressed.
"no one's... physically... very sick..." 😆😆😆😆
From the viewer's emotional perspective, this episode is the brutal fight, the next one is the makeup sex 😁
It’s like “The Revenant”: the Bear mauled you, but there’s a comeback
Thank you so much for the sub-reddit recommendation Eric!
I get that they're simple Midwest farmboys but 1) Does Aaron not know what cannolis are and 2) Does he think an Italian mom made burritos for Christmas?
"Uncle" Lee Layne (Bob Odenkirk) is not actually their uncle, he's Donna's on-again, off-again boyfriend. Uncle Jimmy (also not their actual uncle) makes a reference to him in S2E1, when he explains to Carmen that KBL stands for Kalinowski (Jimmy), Berzatto, and Layne (Lee). Carmen asks, "Lee? Who's Lee?", to which Nat responds, "Uncle Lee Layne" and Carmen replies back, "Oof. That's not our uncle", to which Nat responds, "Yeah, well, Richie's not your cousin". Richie hears her from another room and replies, "Heard and resented."
Michelle Berzatto (Sarah Paulson) is the actual paternal cousin of Mikey, Nat, and Carm, as she has the same last name as them. Stevie is her boyfriend or husband (they never really clarify that). She grew up in Chicago, but moved to New York City at some point, presumably to get away from their crazy family.
Where Mikey, Nat, and Carm's father is is never really explained, we just know that he's out of the picture and has been for a very long time. In S1E4 (Dogs), Carm asked Uncle Jimmy about him when he saw an old picture of them (Jimmy and Carm's dad) together at the 1992 Chicago Bulls championship rally, and Uncle Jimmy says he hasn't seen him in 20 years. Carm indicates that he barely knew his father, so presumably he was out of the picture very early in Carm's life.
Jimmy not being their actual uncle’s debatable. In 1x4, Jimmy says more like friends than family, which implies some blood relation between the two still. Whether he and the dad were brothers, cousins, or related some other manner is up for debate, but I know I call distant relatives “uncle” and “aunt” for simplicity’s sake despite them not being my direct uncle/aunt. Admittedly, I do that for close family friends to not directly related, but still think “Uncle” Jimmy has a chance of being blood to the Berzattos.
@@robertdelossantos5844 He's definitely not the brother of Carmen's dad, because Jimmy's last name is Kalinowski. So if he is actually Carmy's uncle, it would either be through marriage (ie Jimmy married Carmen's dad's sister) or he is Donna's brother.
Also worth noting that Richie, who is definitely not related to the Berzattos, also refers to Jimmy as "Uncle Jimmy".
@@dtgstl3148 the kiss and remarks to Donna makes it weird if he’s Donna’s brother imo. But still think the dad’s cousin or even Dad’s uncle makes sense.
Very good points on Jimmy, although could be half brother with different dads hence different last names. It is a little confusing with the name part, because I know brothers who have basically not spoken in years. And the way he told the story at the birthday party it sounded like they were brothers. Need to rewatch that scene
@@robertdelossantos5844carmy wouldn’t have said “that’s not our uncle” if he was their uncle so it’s safe to assume he isn’t. i think it’s just a chicagoan thing. eva (richie’s daughter) called the man her mother is dating “uncle frank” in episode 3 but then we hear in episode 7 that he’d proposed to tiff. it’s a thing they do. lee isn’t related.
This episode was literally so real. Towards the end everything about the episode makes you really feel like you’re sitting at the table with the rest of their family. One of the greatest episodes of Television I’ve EVER watched.
I watched this show with my mom and when we got to this episode she kept drawing comparisons to Donna and her mother, my grandmother. Who is also very narcissistic. She actually had to pause the episode cause it was giving her flashbacks
was so happy to see eric recognize her behavior as narcissistic
I have been waiting for this episode. It was SO GOOD.
The fact that this show is in the comedy category at the Emmys is BS. It's a psychological thriller.
i was eric the first time i watched this. i pretty much binged the show in the early morning but when i reached this ep, i had to really stop and process what happened. took half a day off until i felt i was mentally prepared only to be cuddled by "Forks". The two best episodes on TV drama in recent memory.
I noticed that Steven was the only one who acknowledged Pete's good intention. Basically, Steven is just Pete but with experience to the family. We see it when he tried to help Donna which shows he's right in the middle of Pete being entirely clueless and everyone else who are family for a long time.
Note: Just watched the episode and haven't seen the rest yet but wanted to see y'all's reaction. So don't spoil me please LOL.
Everyone loves "Fishes" and for a very good reason. Whenever it comes up on reactions my stress level starts to build before I even press play.
Tragic masterpiece. What an episode. Pure cinema. AND THE CAST IS SUPERSTAR LOADED? What a lineup. Perfect portrayal of DYSFUNCTIONAL yet super loving family, but also BIPOLAR DISORDER from the mother. Bipolar disorder is also genetic usually. Natalie (the daughter) kept triggering her too, by asking “are you okay” a million times. That’s why Carmen holds himself back and keeps everything buried, because his biggest fear is turning into something like that. His family is his biggest fear. He knows it’s genetic too. Carmen has been on the edge of blowing up for so damn long
Every time I see this episode or reactions I pick up something new I didn’t notice before.
Like I've said a dozen times already, this episode was A LOT! It was so realistic and chaotic, and it really makes me anxious and have flashbacks of how I grew up, but it is SO well done. One of my favorite episodes of TV ever, but it is so hard to rewatch because of those feelings it gives. I felt like I was holding my breath the whole episode, and I had a whole breakdown after it ended, but, man, it's incredible!
Man, Sundays are meant to be for relaxing. Here we go.
so excited to see you guys react and discuss to these last episodes of the season 😄 I’ve been waiting not so patiently since y’all started season 1 lol
I still can’t believe it won Best Comedy Series.
the show is funny though. it’s a dramedy.
One of the most brilliant episodes of TV. Soooo powerful. Loved seeing this with you guys. I could feel your anxiety. Gives such context to all the characters in the present. And Carmy has inherited some of his moms rage. The depth of mental illness and repressed trauma is dense in this show. And done so well.
Feel like we are blessed to be getting reactions to this show and Succession at the same time
“Choc banana”. I can’t wait for the next episode. Definitely my feel good episode
20:57 that reaction was hilarious
it was so tough to get through this episode for me. so close to home
It literally took me a month to finish this episode...but I'm glad I persevered
This and the next episode are two of the best episodes of TV I’ve seen in awhile. The amount of tension this show generates is crazy.
Aaron killed me when out of nowhere you just hear “WHAT THE FUCK?!” 20:56
Don't you guys just love holiday specials! They're so fun and festive!
One of the best television episodes ever!
This episode I bet won the Emmy great episode. Love this show
man i love bob odenkirk so much. So great to see him randomly pop up here
Let's go, baby!! Don't worry, next episode is much much calmer
This episode was so crazy intensely stressful. The next episode is amazing - My favorite. But following this episode was the perfect choice.
When I first saw this, it gave me ptsd. Many, MANY, of my Holidays were like this when I was younger. LOL
This episode gave me a panic attack and a headache and I had to take a nap after watching it. 10/10.
It took me three tries to get through it. I could only watch like 15 minutes at a time.
One of the realest moments of this episode is when Nat says, “I love you.” to Michael. As a brother, if one of your siblings hits you with that look and all they can say is, “I love you.” you know you’re about to royally fuck something up. It’s a devastating feeling and Jon Bernthal’s response is so good. You can see the words reach him.
And people question why this is labeled a comedy. Haven’t seen the crew laugh so much at the show like at the last half of the episode.
No....
If this episode does not win every Emmy it can...
36:15 yeah the m&ms story is from the early days of stadium shows with pyro. The idea was to know how careful the stadium was with the riders on the contract. If the m&ms weren’t done, they wouldn’t trust the pyro.
As someone whos been a backstage person for decades, those are very different departments. But it’s a good story.
Fishes and Forks are IMHO the best episodes of this season. I've watched this episode multiple times and the chaos and the tension of this dysfunctional family gets me every time. The acting is incredible!
This was my favorite episode. It explains so much. Great performances by everyone.