TESTED: CMMG Radial Delayed Blowback
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 มิ.ย. 2024
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A lot of people don't realize how challenging it is to develop an AR pistol or SBR that will feed and function reliably. In this story, we'll look at CMMG's Radial Delayed Blowback technology, learn why it was developed, and how it has a drastic taming effect on recoil.
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The following Ultimate Reloader partners are featured in this video:
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I agree with many of the other comments. I would love to see a comparison between the CMMG vs MP5 Roller Delay, vs MPX piston driven system.
watch Honest Outlaw, top 5 PCC's
MDP-9 and CMMG Dissent
@mlone7 he doesn't have sled to collect data like what we see here.
Mpx gas system is ridiculous. You have to port so much gas from a 9mm to get pressures needed to do work, it gets absolutely filthy and unserviceable very quick. Not a piece of field equipment.
My cmmg was a POS. I prefer the mpx
The most underrated science based gun video/channel on the interwebs. Phenomenal work is an understatement. Bravo sir.
It would be interesting to see a comparison between CMMG and MP5 delayed blowback
H&K's patent must have expired on the roller delayed blowback system because there are atleast 3 companies making roller delayed 9mm's now, and I would say they are all as good or better than the MP5, Angstad arms makes the MPD-9, but good luck finding one to purschase, JP is making the JP-5 a 3 gun competition vairiant, but it is a long-barrelled gun, and is $$$( I haven't seen a review yet that didn't describe it as the softest and flatest 9mm PCC they have ever shot), Stribog makes the SP9A3, my least favorite, but it is the cheapest and is possible to find, but yeah, I would love to see the data on even the Stribog versus the CMMG.
I just purchased the Zenith premium package the ZF5. Still waiting on it though. But I will say from what I have experienced with the radial-delayed blowback in my banshee upper was not impressive. So if they ever make that comparison with the Roller-Delayed Blowback VS the Radial Delayed Blowback, I can almost guarantee it would be a loooong day for CMMG. To me, it's more hype than anything else.
@@hoosiercarry1149no it s not 😂
I have both and they are about the same
I have a Banshee in 45 ACP with the 5” barrel. It’s a very accurate gun with my hand loads. I am pushing 230 grain XTPs to around 1000 fps. I am running a Rugged Obsidian 45 suppressor on it and finally have it running reliably. I had to add the largest CMMG tuning weight to the bolt along with a 5.3 oz 308 carbine buffer. Recoil is so smooth now and with the suppressor it is so quiet. It would be nice to see the effect of suppressors on firearm recoil using your new test rig.
Son, you ain’t pushing no jacketed 230 gr 45 ACP to 1000 fps from a 5” barrel. You either have a bad chronograph or you’re lying like half of the internet reloaders.
@@SavageTactical You might want to expand and update your load data. I'm getting 1035 FPS with Hornady 230gr XTP in a 5" S&W 4506 using 14.0gr of Ramshot Enforcer with Fed. 155 primers. This is published load data from the Ramshot not an overload cooked up.
Very, very cool video. The sinusoidal oscillation going back into battery would be the natural frequency of the bolt/recoil spring. You should calculate it and compare to see how it stacks up. You should consider doing more of this type of analysis, it is very interesting stuff.
Glad you liked it, sounds like you and I think alike! Great ideas.
Try a flat wire spring and hydraulic buffer......
Tremendous presentation!! Thank you Gavin for putting this together please make more of these type of videos with the new rig!
I’d like to see Radial delayed vs MPX vs Roller delayed.🤩
Excellent video BTW! Hard to believe somebody brings this level of testing to the masses! Thank you.
Thanks for the efforts to investigate this and share!
Nice work Gavin. I really enjoy these types of videos. I have one of the CMMG 10mm banshees so I know how well the radial delayed blowback works. Thanks for the video!! 👍🏻
Loving the amaout of data and the depth of the testing! I hope we will be seeing much more of this type of content.
Great video, very interesting. I would like to see the effect of some of the recoil mitigation devices such as Kynshot, lightened bolt carriers with different spring weights, and muzzle brakes. We know those things work, but it would be great to see how much.
Recently ordered a banshee bc I was in market for PCC with less recoil.. I’ve heard and seen quite a bit of very positive feedback though this comparison and breakdown of data is awesome! Thank you! Certainly looking forward to trying it out. Will comment when I do.
Would like to see various 50BMG semi tests in your bucket list. Thanks. This is fantastic!
THIS is the kind of information I've been looking for. Thank you! I've been going back and forth between four different pccs with my main deciding factor being the recoil impulse. It's nice to see some real data behind it instead of just opinions.
Incredible work. Thank you for this video. Now I want to see more comparisons !
Fantastic video. Top notch fabrication of the rifle sled. Thanks for geeking out on the recoil data!
Really cool man,thanks for all the work you put into this! Love to see the science of this kind of stuff.
Wow Gavin this is pretty neat stuff. Good work.
Awesome work Gavin! This will be awesome for testing muzzle break and suppressor performances on recoil reduction.
Thanks for the detailed test!
Nice work! As a physicist, I totally geeked out from yout test rig.
This is cool. I look forward to more videos measuring recoil.
I really like this type of technical and informative video. Thank you for your work.
Thanks for killing it, I geeked out on the data also!
Amazing work and much appreciated
Suppressor recoil amongst different brands and configurations would be great. Things to know before investing time/$ into a can
UR is turning out some of the best content easily.
I placed an order for a 9mm Banchee using colt style mags last week. Your video just helped to strengthen my decision.
Great vid Sir. Looks like a great shooter. God Bless!
This is one of the best videos I've seen in the Firearms community. I love geeking out on data. Definitely liking and subscribing to learn more.
I have two AR9s that I built that are blowback and I'm really wishing I could convert them to this CMMG BCG and barrel now.
A lot of AR testing ideas. The difference between carbine, mid length and rifle length gas on recoil, also for a 6.5 gas gun, the rifle and then +1 and +2 gas length. Lastly AR vs Bullpup.
Great video! Love the data!
I'd really like to see you run a recoil test on muzzle brakes and suppressors, specifically the Maverick.
I built out a pistol around an 8" CMMG RDB barrel and BCG and it handles very well. I give this to my friends that are recoil sensitive when they want to step up from shooting 22LR.
Wow amazing work 👌🏻
Absolutely outstanding. I love this type of content. You got a sub from me.
Very interesting to see the results!
15:12 That's potentially the action spring oscillating in the buffer tube after the BCG stops its forward motion. High speed video of a cutaway tube might confirm this
Absolutely awesome video. I love it!
Great video, thanks !!
I have a short answer. Yes. The fact it doesn't have a giant heavy bolt flying rearward means it is better than a blow back. I tell you this I love my cmmg. It's the most fun gun I have!
Thanks for this video. I have a CMMG RDB gun in 9mm so this is like I have validation for choosing the platform. I have no regrets, and now I have data to validate.
Everyone that has fired my build with the CMMG 5.7 upper loves it. Stays on target allowing fast follow up shots.
Great info! Thanks
Would love to see roller delayed (MP5) graph matched up!
Awsome video! Instantly SUBed and would like to see more stuff like this.
More to come!
Awesome video.
Very interesting
I really like the idea of the CMMG radial bolt and have considering converting my Colt mag fed QC10 lower to that.
Great experiment. And I hope to see you try same recoil system weight and same spring recoil to find out how exactly different between rdb and blowback.
Never knew Gavin worked at MS. That's cool.
great video, thank you!
I would love to see the data of the Banshee vs. MP5 vs. MPX! Very cool video!
Great video, was curious how good radial delayed blowback is
10/10. Would've loved to see a slow mo capture of the gun fired in within the recoil rig to more accurately compare it to the graph
Awesome video. I shoot steel challenge and am constantly trying to reduce recoil. Have you had an opportunity to test the scheel roller delay buffer. For me, it has become a game changer.
Please keep up the good work. Love it!!!
Here's a thought, add an electronic actuator for the trigger (solenoid or servo) that can be bolted onto device under testing. This would help remove (or rather, standardize) the noise from your trigger pull.
Very cool video! Thanks for the deep comparison. Something is bugging me though: where are you shooting at when using the rig??
Love the data!
I think you should look into a Linear Rail set mounted on bow mount (like the rails on a compound miter saw ) with two pic rail /arca throw levers. A small spring holding the gun to the rear.
You should do muzzle breaks springs buffers adjustable gas and lightweight bolts with this setup
I have been running a RDB for a while. Was having some issues with ejection as have others...a least early on. This system seems to really beat up on ejector and extractor springs. Recently CMMG has gone with an updated/extra power ejector spring as well as the 'o-ring' on the extractor. I also had the bolt lugs chip on my first unit right at those sharp beveled edges after around 1800 rounds, but a replacement has been good so far through around 400. Hoping it will hold up and stay dependable.
What I like most about the RDB system isn't so much about a noticeably reduced recoil compared to straight blowback, but better tracking and less muzzle lift, with a softer 'landing' at the end of the cycle. Its mother and feels slow than the straight blowback, but not so slow so it feels like it's 'swimming' like it can be when you slow down all that reciprocating mass in a straight blowback.
As far testing I think you mentioned most of what would be interesting to see.
I’d like to see a detailed breakdown of the different area 419 muzzle brake options. Particularly how the 2 port compares to the bigger options.
You should have a clear buffer tube made so you can see if that last force measurement is the spring returning rearward.
Fabulous video Gavin. My question to you would be how much does lubrication of the dynamic parts of the radial delayed blowback system affect the operation and maybe even the recoil?
Yes on RDB I have a Grand Power Stribog A3.
Stribog has roller-delayed action!--Comparing apples to oranges!
I'm thinking the late spike is the sled rebounding or dumping energy back into the pressure sensor and butstock. Think of striking an anvil with even a light hammer. U can feel the wave of energy on/in the mass of the anvil, even though its probably 200plus × the weight of the hammer. The sled would have to be incredibly heavy/dense to not be detected by such a precious sensor.
in addition to what others have proposed... it's be interesting to see the comparison between the RDB and a normal, DI AR in 5.56!
I was excited, I thought you were trying out a new tooling insert on your PM lathe.... CMM(G) 😉
Awesome! science! nice job sir!
The radial is definitely a straight pushback. I think the small ripple is the bolt locking. It would be cool to see the CMMG VS SP5.
Like it very mutch how you test it and make the results visible in a diagram.
Test engineer here; nice setup, interesting results. For future use, it would be nice to have units on the graphs; just a pet peeve, and I know on the PCB stuff that'll mean a bit of messing around. I haven't watched other of your videos yet to see if you've done that.
I believe ferfrans has a component in it's bolt assembly that will tame the recoil but will reduce the fire rate.
Good interesting stuff
Do differences in shoulder soft tissue compression and rebound enter into your thinking and analysis? Thanks for all your efforts,what fun
That nearly perfect sinusoidal response for the rotating bolt will be dampened by your shoulder. Keep in mind, there could be feedback from the rigid steel frame on the end of the graph. Regardless, huge difference in recoil between the two. Nice engineering analysis!
I would like you to test the banshee with a tubb flat wound spring for a 223/556, a KynShot 5007 buffer, and an A5 buffer tube and see what the test says about recoil. I also think your test machine is bad assed. With your videos and graph data you can put figures to what you see. Real cool!!
The 9mm version i had lasted 200 rounds before it wouldn't extract emptys..... put a new 5 coil sprinco in it an it worked great an sent it down the road..
I’d love to see the recoil data difference between a good chassis system and and something like a foundation MG2
Man that was just EXCELLENT thanks for your time and effort from Canada where we can not own CMMG piss me off
Just curious;Why can't you own CMMG???
@@pebo8306 our dickhead gov't has banned "assault style" (scary) weapons, no ARs, CZ Scorpions, and CMMG did not submit one to the RCMP (federal police) so they could be officially banned. I wanted one a couple of years ago and I would have had to be the "test case" sorry not on my nickle. But if I move I will own one!
Building a RDB now. Muzzle brakes would be perfect for the sled.
I wonder how the graphs would compare with bolt hold open on an empty mag.
My wife Shot a bunch of PCCs and chose the CMMG Guardian model in 45 ACP. She said it had the least kick out of several. With a couple of Kriss conversion Glock mags and one 13 rounder in the gun, her truck gun would be a big surprise to anyone with nefarious intentions toward her. Eight inch barrel shoots one inch groups at fifty yards all day long. Also, the most expensive gun I've ever bought.
This is a very detailed comparison, thanks for putting this together. I hope someday in the future you do the same with the stribog sp9a3.
Edit: I have a JP5 roller delay ar9 on pre-order. I'd love to see that tested if you can get your hands on one.
I’d be really interested in how a rough phosphate BCG compares to a really slick JP BCG or Chromed Microbest BCG
Love these kind of videos that compare claims of these companies with legit data that people can use when making a purchase. In this case is the extra worth it for radial delay. The next interaction could be straight blow back vs radial delay vs roller delay like mp5. Another great experiment could be how the data looks for gasses in the action on these different operating systems. See how these systems effect gasses shooters experience while running suppressed.
Bro, you must have made a fortune with MSN because you always have the best toys!
You should do this test on stribog Gen 1 and Gen 3
Love all the science behind this project. I always hated that most 9mm pistols/carbines like the CZ Scorpion produce too much unnecessary recoil (more then some handguns) because of the direct blowback, while all this can be solved with a delayed system. Great video.
It’s 0.08 seconds we’re talking about, 80ms :)
@@Ultimatereloader Oi. My bad :)
Thanks
Do you think fast burning powder vs slow burning powder would show significantly different signatures in large bolt action platforms? Maybe 338LM class?
Can you test various buffer weights in direct blowback 9mm and explore how tuning works with suppressors?
I’d like to see the 10mm banshee with RDB vs Kriss Vector 10mm with vectoring bolt. That would be a cool comparison since we now have seen the advantages is RDB vs straight blow back
Would be cool to see the difference with a heavier buffer spring. Would in theory slow down the already light BCG. Just not too heavy to where there is no bolt lock back. Finding the right balance
The biggest thing for me is bullet weight, specifically .30 caliber bc it is used in so many different carriages and has such a large range of weights from 115 gr to well over 200 gr.
How about a comparison between a radial delay and a piston system like the mpx?
I'd like to see the highspeed camera test various brands of compensators for muzzle rise.
I'd also like to see apples to apples comparisons for recoil and muzzle rise. 9mm JP-5 vs 9mm CMMG Mk17. Heck, throw in a direct blowback Ruger PCC.