I was going to say this, this person and the other KJV only people have turned the KJV into a idol. The other thing is I have asked them why would Yahweh choose the KJV when it’s not even the first English translation Holy Scripture, and it’s also not even the first language the Holy Scriptures was written in. I have not received an answer to this question yet.
I wouldn't say it's an idolization. I think that's your perception. The reason why there are so many people passionate about the King James version is because they could see a more Godly intent by more, quite frankly, men inspired by God. If you research the translators of the original revised edition in the late 1800s which currently drives most translations today, There definitely seems to be an attempt to use the worst possible manuscripts available in an attempt to water down the beauty and power of God's word and once again this is my humble opinion, but it is shared by many other people who actually study the Bible.
@Hold Fast Mard Wark is literally the most patient and courteous guy when dealing with these KJVO 🥜🧠 fanatics, much more then he should in fact because the hardcore ones are really viscious, nasty and vile people!
@Hold Fast Mark does a remarkable job in being gracious, even when he is being voraciously attacked. He admits that sometimes it's hard because of the demeaning comments, to the point of calling him a heretic and unregenerate. He is more than willing to engage with anyone as long as they will be respectful in the interchange.
@@DiscipleDojo Oh, you should not hold back on your snarky bits. Us in the KJVO camp enjoy ad hominem attacks. Maybe call us Ruckmanites, that is always enjoyable. What I have found is once the snarky bits and "I can read Greek" arguments are done people like you really struggle. Let's take a moment to discuss 1 Cor 6:9 in the NRSVue and how that impacts your submission to "Godly Scholars." That is always fun. How about you give your Scholarly opinion on which of the ESV2016, ESV-CE or Gideon's-ESV is correct. Maybe you could chime in how selling Verbum impacts theological decisions of LOGOS software.
@Hold Fast Well, unfortunately I think Dr. Ward knows his stuff pretty well and could probably hold up a bit against the David Daniels type but he is producing as his target audience more the average person that does not have a lot of knowledge. When you listen to he David Daniels type it is obvious there is a lot more to the defense of KJVO than what people like to pretend there is, but an honest argument is not what they are looking for. I try to engage in Copyright application requirements an protection as related to Bible version, which I feel is a huge issue and no one ever wants to engage because logically at the end of the day you are almost forced to be either KJVO, NKJVO or NASB1977 Only. I have never had anyone have any good response to copyright issues, usually it just comes down to "trust the Godly Scholars"
Just wanted to say thanks brother. Mark Ward has an excellent channel for those who want to know more. I've never been KJVO but some dear friends of mine went that way so I started looking into it. What I came away with was that I was sort of unconsciously staying away from some of the more modern translations because I heard those accusations but back then I didn't really have time to look into it. So thanks KJVO brethren, I have started reading my NIV and NLT again and also got an ESV and CSB and am enjoying the different translation choices compared to my "watered down NKJV" that I've been exclusively using for a couple of decades.
If you gain a deeper and more accurate doctrinal theology, you will eventually see modern translations as helpful, but the KJV/NKJV as the final authority.
Different issue: I’m new to Christianity: but the church I go to use’s the NIV. I notice 5 times where those who don’t believe go to death, but in the KJV go to hell. This has always perplexed me. Just asking. Love your post and Jesus is king
believe this was the most compassionate and intelligent reaction to this this person who was not just making his or her point, but being very insulting and personal at the same time. Kudos!! I love your show as I am a bible need myself.
Great response. It is really hard to stay patient with such obvious mistakes. I got into a debate with a KJV-Onlyist recently online, and the guy was so evasive. He would literally ask a question, I would answer it, and then he would dismiss that and ask another question. These poor brethren feel their faith tied to the KJV, unfortunately.
"These poor brethren feel their faith tied to the KJV, unfortunately." Well, that is correct, and a KJVO person my faith is tied to the KJB because all I now is based on the Bible. If I do not believe the Bible is a correct translation of the correct manuscripts then all I have is the tradition of man.
@@fnjesusfreak They all believe in double inspiration, tho most are very discreet about this due to the obvious absurdity of it all. These people will only escape this absurdity if it comes from inside themselves, while any outside questioning will only harden their shells. Time is too precious to waste discussing with hardcore KJVOnlyists.
@@casey1167 So because you feel that not having the perfect Bible based on the perfect manuscripts would compromise your faith, you embrace KJV onlyism? That's not a valid reason to believe something. It would be like saying, "If it rains tomorrow, I won't get to go swimming. So I don't believe it's going to rain." But it's a false premise. Even without the perfect translation, we still have God's perfect Word. It's precisely because of textual discrepancies that we can have great confidence in the Word of God. God, in His wise providence, ordained it as such that many copies should be made, so that no one man could corrupt His Word. Through textual criticism we can know the content of the original autographs with incredible certainty, and as it pertains to essential doctrine, absolute certainty. I read my ESV and I know for a fact I am reading the Word of God because of textual criticism. The way I see it, either KJV onlyism is true (which it's not), and verses were removed, or the textual critics are correct, and the KJV has verses that were not in the original autographs. I err on the side of caution. I don't want to take a chance on reading a Bible with added verses. I had rather read a Bible with missing verses than read a Bible with added verses. Besides all that, the ESV has a far better manuscript tradition. But regardless, I simply see no reason to put blind faith in a particular translation when the evidence doesn't justify doing so.
@@G.D.9 KJVO use the 1769, so by default none believe in double inspiration. I know saying all KJVO people believe in double inspiration sounds great, but it is just false.
Well done response! One deficit of recently published KJ Bibles is the omission of “The Translators To The Reader” essay that is invaluable in learning what the men tasked with creating the Authorized Version thought about their work and the choices they made. It also has a welcome tone of humor about the difficulty of creating a translation faithful to both the original languages and the English of the time.
@@fnjesusfreak I have it in my Schuyler. I really question those that talk about "The Translators to Reader" have actually read it though. It does not say what people think it does.
I LOVED THIS VIDEO! Thank you. You did a fantastic job of taking us along your though process and leading us up to your conclusion. I thought it was a lovely video and it made me think twice about KJVO. And… I think I’ll contribute to your channel. Cheerio!
Glad I found your show. It’s very helpful to me. I’m rather new in ministry as a vocation. I’m a missions pastor at a church that just disaffiliated in the South Georgia conference. I grew up as a PK in the Baptist church. You cover so many great topics and I find it very informational. Thank you
My Dad was a UM pastor in the S. GA conference up until this past year. The church he's serving disaffiliated as well. It's the conference I grew up in. :-)
As a kjv-onlyist who fellowships & loves those with those who aren't kjvo I don't spam, nor do i get hostile with people who think differently. I look for healthy conversation, never a hostile experience with someone else. I can't change minds. Disciple Dojo thanks for your content & for not showing enmity towards those who are kjvo.
Can I just add that as a newer believer in Christ I cannot read KJB at all. I have tried dozens of times, and I will have to read a sentence more than dozen times in order to even understand what the text was saying. I'm currently reading NIV (your video on the Life Application Study Bible sold me), and its far easier for me to read and understand. It does trip me up sometimes when it comes to people's speech (currently studying the book of Job), but I'm able to get a pretty good grasp of the idea behind a lot of the verses and conversations. One day I will try to read KJB again once I have a better understanding of the word of God, but until then I am pretty confident that what I am reading is sound and holy. This video is a lot of the reason why I attend a nondenominational church. Too many Christians chastising each other on how to worship God when, at least to me, your personal relationship with God is what really matters. As a side note I would love your take on The Message. I bought one years ago for how easy it reads, but only read the first 5 books of the bible with it. NIV resonated with me a lot more, but I will break out The Message whenever I am reading something and having a difficult time grasping the text. Thank you for your content my dude, and thank you for helping me to build my relationship with God.
This was really great! I really appreciate how you didn't pick on spelling mistakes, very classy. I think KJV Onlyists can have an unhealthy focus on convincing others that KJV is the only real Bible. Thanks for answering their questions, hopefully someone who might have found the argument convincing can have knowledge to keep them out of the KJVO movement
The commenter reminds of the story of an old member of a congregation upset with the minister preaching from an alternative version of the Bible standing and waving his KJV Bible screaming "if this was good enough for Paul, it's good enough for me"
But...but...you don't understand! If you were a true biblical scholar, you would know that God certainly gave the KJV to the Israelites when they were wandering in the wilderness. See, God rained down manna and yes, in one sense it was this flaky white stuff, but it's also a reference to Jesus, who is the bread (manna) of life. And since Jesus is the Word of God, then what the Israelites must have received was the true word of God, the KJV, that points to Jesus in the New Covenant. And you would also realize that King James English is the true language of God and the angels. It's all THERE, which you would realize if you were right with God and allowed the Holy Spirit to show you that the way of life is KJV...the Word...Jesus...the way, the truth, and the life. KJV and none other!!! (This is a probably poor attempt at humor for the impaired. :D )
You not only put a crack in it, you shattered it! Great video, very edifying. Every translation is an interpretation, that's exactly right and what I tell people all the time. Critical thinking and objectivity is so important with textual criticism, and the KJV only camp in many was just ignores these necessary principles and thus remain ignorant by their own stubbornness and arrogance. Keep up the great work. God bless!
Your video helps me not only understand the issue and topic of what you are talking about but also to help me in where I can get similar helps with supposedly contradictions in other matters. Thank you for what you do and even though you can explain why you believe what you believe, we as humble Christians always know that when there is a agenda that we’re fighting against sometimes they’re really willing to go to death so they don’t have to look inside themselves and see themselves in the. Sincerely, circular reasoning trapped inside of revolving door. God bless brother.
Some of the hard core KJVO people remind me of those hard core vegetarians or vegans. It’s not enough that they choose to restrict their diets for whatever reason. They have to call out the rest of the world for not eating their way. I use multiple translations to see if/how they differ. The best Bible translation question has a simple answer: the best Bible translation is the one that you will actually read!
That's an interesting comparison. Obviously, many vegetarians will become so because of their problems with factory farming and other practices that run the risk of being cruel and unethical. In my experience, they are far less judgmental toward poor rural communities relying on seasonal hunting to support their families. So too, a KJVO person really should distinguish between categories of translations. _Better to use the NRSV than the NWT. Better to use the NIV than the NRSV. Better to use the CSB than the NIV. Better to use the NASB than the CSB. Better to use the NKJV than the NASB._ Such nuance can make their own stance seem more reasonable: the KJV is the best, but there are degrees of acceptability beyond it.
@@casey1167 The point of that statement is that a CEV that you actually read is better than a YLT that collects dust on the shelf, no matter how much you hypothetically favor strict literalism over interpretation. Objectively, the ASV is better than the ICB, but if you can't make any sense of the ASV, you'll get more from the ICB. But once you get past the slogan's rhetorical point, you can go on to say that not all versions of the same type are of the same caliber. You can think that essentially literal translations in the Tyndale-Coverdale tradition are better than all others without thinking that the NKJV, NASB, ESV, NRSV, and MEV are all equally good. Theological biases and textual bases will probably play a role in your viewpoint. So too, you can say that semi-literal or "middle ground" translations are the best while still having a preference between the CSB, NET, NIV, and NAB. You can argue that the NJB is to be preferred over the REB and CEB among the semi-paraphrastic versions, and you can insist on using the TEV over the NLT and NCV as a "kiddie" version. (And you can toss the true paraphrases right in the trash if you wish. Okay, maybe you should just banish them to Goodwill instead...)
@@MAMoreno The Goodwill is were I obtained those versions..... remember I am 55.... I was doing comparison between version manually for a long time. So, what is the Bible? is it more comparable to "Gone with the Wind" or the "IRS Tax Code"?? I would say the IRS Tax Code. If I am doing tax returns I want the Code, and could care less how easy it is to read. Not saying the YLT is perfect (actually, I don't really like it), but I want to know as close to possible what the Word of God is, I don't want to be concerned the entire time I am reading the Bible about the liberty modern translators are taking with the text. I of course understand the KJB translators took some liberties in translation but the NLT?? I read it a lot, and I have to look up words from time to time, but the KJB simply is not that hard to read. except for some of the Psalms and Proverbs, reading for enjoyment just is not there for me. It is reading to learn. One thing with the KJB that you simply don't have with any modern version is 400 years of people trying to find problems with the translation, but then again no other Bible but the KJB (except many the LSB now) does anyone claim is the correct Word of God.
@@casey1167 I would say that we very much disagree on this point. Only a small portion of the Bible is anything like the IRS Tax Code (the 613 laws of the Torah). Other parts such as the books of Judges, Samuel, and Kings have more in common with Gone with the Wind: a sprawling epic following a morally flawed character's perseverance through wartime and its aftermath. We might even throw in the book of Ruth, where the titular female figure goes through tragic circumstances and finds herself struggling in the fields to avoid going hungry before improving her situation through marriage. Conversely, books such as Psalms and Proverbs have little resemblance to either tax codes or 20th century historical fiction novels. When I do opt to grab the KJV from my bookshelf, it is very much for enjoyment and not for learning. It's one of my two primary "read simply for the pleasure of it" translations, with the other being the Revised English Bible. When I read for learning or reflection, I use the NRSV and ESV. (They just happen to offer a high level of literary beauty alongside their academic qualities.) I typically use other translations exclusively online unless I'm in a library. There is a well-worn NASB/Amplified parallel Bible on my shelf too, but it doesn't get nearly as much use as my NRSVs and ESVs.
I used to be KJVO but I moved on once I started exegetical study and expository preaching… I still use the KJV but kjvOnlyism is man made theology and so often unchristlike in its defense
"and so often unchristlike in its defense" I agree, but please. There are plenty of those who wont touch the KJV that are unchristlike in their assessments of KJV onlyism. But that isnt why I am responding to you. Being unchristlike doesnt automatically mean KJV interpretation isn't superior to the other translations. That is fallacious reasoning. So, what the real issue is here is that many people look at the translations only from a reading perspective. Even I sometimes have trouble with the older english and rely on the modern translations to help. You know, to get a "shallow" overview. It is when you really become solid in your foundations that you begin to see the blatant and significant errors in the modern translations. So, I guess it depends on what you mean by a KJV onlyist. I have several modern translations, with CSB/HCSB being my favorite, but I ultimately rely on the KJV as the final authority for my doctrine. Does that make me a KJV "onlyist"?
@@treefellonya I like to describe myself as KJV best, not KJV only. In my church, we use the KJV for all teaching but it's not a taboo thing to have and talk about modern translations.
I have several translations and study snd refer back and forth between them, but I enjoy reading KJV, the poetry is beautiful. Thank you for your patience with the comment theologian and your diligence in your response.
I don’t use my KJV, however, I do sometimes like to quote *certain* scripture in KJV just for their poetic quality. But only if the text that’s accurately translated.
Thoughtful and just review. Subbed, liked and looking forward to more. Oh, and yes: I will review older posts. (I have seen some others previously). Thank you for your encouraging work.
This issue is not a Western issue aline. I am Romanian-American, and there is a specific Romanian translation many Romanians cherish to the exclusion of modern Romanian translations.
This is very interesting! I wonder how many other language/ethnic groups have an "Authorized Version". Is the preferred Romanian translation understandable to modern Romanian readers?
Also a lot of people say 1611 King James went about 99% of the King James translations that are out there are 1769. You have to special order a 1611 King James. Some of them even have the margin notes that were in the original 1611 King James
Ok, LOL, you made me get up and look. I only have 1 KJV that was given to me in grade school. Hardback, pages are all brown and brittle and I opened it up very carefully and looked - 1611. Earlier today I ordered a new KJV (not NKJV, I already have one of those) so that I could have one that I wasn't afraid to handle. Didn't even know about your point so didn't know to check on it. So it will be interesting to see what comes. Thanks for the point of interest.
@@fourltrman About 300 word I believe. Tons of spelling. But when compared to the 44,000 changes between the NASB1977 and NASB1995, it is not that bad.
@@fourltrman Well, I have seen many times where people have been told there are thousands of changes between the 1611 and the 1769 (which is true) and they loose faith in the KJB. While noting there have been changes in words, which really gets rid of any re-inspiration beliefs, the idea thousands of change have been made is problematic unless one realize almost all changes deal with spelling.
When you want something to be so you will ignore everything to the contrary. That is simply the case for the commenter. I came from a KJV only background. But also doesn't matter what the subject is it could be KJV only ism or it can be someone who ignores their addictions because they don't want to see the facts.
Disciple Dojo I am a Roman Catholic so I am not sure that my support for you will be helpful! Many of your subscribers probably have doubts that I am a Christian.However I am subscriber to your channel and this year have watched all of the videos on Leviticus and Revelation.Your channel is awesomel! I have learned so much.I think the criticisms made in today's video by Oleg were bang out of order and your response was measured God Bless you and your ministry
Is the KJV Jesus different than the NIV Jesus? Honestly I love the KJV as my daily Bible, but I haven’t ever found a different Jesus when reading any of my other translations.
Are you willing to make a TPT video Brian Simmons seems to be changing certain things and I am curious your thoughts on if this makes it a viable translation
The TPT is on par with the NWT in my opinion. Mark Ward and Mike Winger have put out excellent exposes of the nonsense involved with that paraphrase. I don't have anything of substance that I would add to what they've already said.
That is the first time I have ever learned of KJVO. How interesting. Well, the beauty and poetry of the KJV & NKJV can't be denied. I currently study by way of a number of translations and when I read my KJV and NKJV it is helpful to have other translations, such as the NIV, ESV, NASB and even paraphrase Bibles as the NLT, to enlighten my heart. To those who feel the only way to study is through only specific versions, i say, if that is what the Holy Spirit informs you, then may He bless your journey as is His will. ❤ If you find yourself intimidated by other translations, be assured, The Lord knows our hearts. It is all about our relationship with Him.
I love the king james. I also love the nlt . I also love the nasb. Actually i love all the translations that tell the truth of Christ. That he is the way, the truth and the life. That no one comes to the Father but through Christ. Every man after his maner. And I use the translation of "man" as all human kind. If you prefer "people" thats cool too. We are commanded to love one another. Condemn the sin, not the person. Any who. Thanks for all you do on this channel. 🙏
Great video. Love Mark Ward’s work. Love the KJV as I grew up with that version. But I use multiple translations (NIV/NASB) in ‘23 and planning on RSV in ‘24. What I find troubling about the KJVO folks is a seemingly lack of love and grace in dealing with brothers and sisters in Christ. AND if they think we’re not even true believers, do they think this tone and path will lead others to Christ? Prayers for you brothers.
They don't generally espouse specific beliefs or denominations either, just KJV4life! and whatever numb skull schizo hollering on the internet draws their need for virtue signaling.
"When does God care about the feelings or preferences of man?" All the time. When he said through Isaiah 65:2-3: "(I shall use KJV for this fan) I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walketh in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts; A people that provoketh me to anger continually to my face". God is so angered by the preference of the men of that time to walk in iniquity. Or how about the time where he said he was a jealous God who cares if his children are loyal to him and is long suffering, patiently enduring the sins so that more people may hear the gospel and decide to turn to Christ. I'm honestly concerned if this person knows the Lord. King Hezekiah had to get rid of idolatry, including the bronze serpent on the pole that the Israelites burnt offerings to. God in His wisdom did not allow the Ark of the Covenant to be found so it could not be venerated apart from Him, He also inspired the Bible but kept no original copies so it may not be venerated. Yet the KJV Purists venerate the version of the bible. Rather than show loyalty to the King Himself, Lord God of Heaven's Armies, they choose to give loyalty to the translators of the bible, and then like the Jews who despised Gentiles, insisting on the adherence of their 613 laws and circumcision for Gentile believers before they can become children of God, these KJV-only puritans do the same to believers who read the other versions. Why did the events in Pentecost happen? That speaking in tongues in churches should be accompanied by interpreters, so that it may BENEFIT THOSE who are foreigners and need a translation. If God intended for the gospel to be difficult to understand, He would have done it the Islam way and insist every believer learn the original language of Hebrew and Greek. Translations are to make it easier and more accessible for more believers of various education levels and exposure to the faith to get into the Word of God, not obscure the word. Truly, Solomon is right in Ecclesiastes 1:10-11 (KJV again) " Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us. There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after."
It's past time for you to do a complete study on how King James modified scripture away from original language giving examples of how newer versions correct this and even document on the page where text is different.
Hebrews 3:16 in Greek clearly says "For who having heard rebelled? but not all the ones having gone out from Egypt through Moses? It is a question. The KJV is a mistranslation turning into an indicative statement.
Great response JM. The kjv only conspiracy theory is built on fear. In my thinking it gives more power to the enemy than he has. Some KJVO books have pages and pages of these so called contradictions. It is also fed by the state of the church and some modern teachings that seem to arise with the advent of modern translations. ( slippery slope fallacy).Hopefully the commenter will receive your response and search further.
I think its important to focus on the word rebelled in the question. All those that rebelled against God did not enter into the promised land. Joshua and Caleb entered because they were not part of the rebellion.
I like to use the King James overall because at least compared to the NIV ( which uses the same manuscripts as most Bibles out there today) there is greater consistency between the old and New testament as well as the name of God being more pronounced. It's almost impossible to get a really good study of the newer translations in my humble opinion.
Just wanted to highlight that Heb 3:16 being a question is also supported in the NKJV. And the NKJV is also based on the textus receptus, the same underlying text translated into the KJV English. For who, having heard, rebelled? Indeed, was it not all who came out of Egypt, led by Moses? Hebrews 3:16 NKJV
@@casey1167 respectfully, I stand by my statement. The point I was making is that the difference comes from the English, not a text critical issue regarding the greek. You presumably phrased your comment as a support for the KJV.
@Casey P your question assumes that there is a correct translation. If you will allow me a good faith answer, ill try. However, I have no interest in conversations that lack humility and a genuine desire for truth. Bear with me a moment. I believe that 3 things are needed for a healthy, godly Christian life. 1) the body of Christ 2) the indewelling Holy spirit 3) the scriptures. This means that I need have enough humility to pause and use the Holy spirit to consider the viewpoint of anyone who is a part of the body of Christ. And it also means that i must not break fellowship with another believer unless they are engaging in a heresy that dams them to hell. When i look around the world at my Chinese and Spanish brothers (and English brothers) as well as others, their reading maintains the question format in Heb 3:16. (Google translate bellows) cht (Chinese) Who then heard his words and provoked him to anger? Is it not all that came out of Egypt with Moses? EM (Spanish) Because who were those who, having heard, provoked him? Weren't they all who came out of Egypt with Moses? I acknowledge that the Latin volgate seems to be the lineage that the KJV used. But also keep in mind that greek, Latin, and English grammar are all different. So i am less persuaded by greek> Latin> English translation than Greek> English. So by engaging the scriptures in their original form, and trusting the Holy spirit in my brothers through out the body of Christ (in and beyond the English speaking world) i have confidence that the modern translations are true to Gods intended meaning. i am simply not willing myself to dam my brothers and sisters around the world as heretics rather than admit that the KJV translators (in good faith) gave preference to the volgate in a way that didn't fully lcapture the original Greek. I also have no problem with this since the excellent translation they did when KJV English was common allows people to use the whole of scripture to untwist any minor translation issue. This is enough for a TH-cam post so I'll stop now. Bless you my brother.
What’s funny is the king James actually contradicts itself by his logic because of King Ahaziahs age when he started ruling (according to 2 kings 8:26 and 2 chronicles 22:2) a translation mistake many modern fixed In fact only 2 of my top favorite translations make this error that both the NKJV And the KJV make
Ah the classic so-called contradiction in the AKJV. You are wrong. Go back and read 1 and 2nd Kings and 1st and 2nd Chronicles again and let us see if you can connect the dots. Do yourself a favor and pray to the Holy Spirit to show it to you before you go back and read it again. It will help arm you if you can because muslims use the same bs to try and disprove the bible.
Clearly, you dont understand the difference between word for word and dynamic equivalence. This argument, in spite of what the TH-camr says, is much more complicated than he understands.
@@treefellonya I actually do. And that’s why on my shelf I have 5 word for word translations that all use better manuscripts than the KJV had and all of them have the correct translation on this and multiple other issues. Here’s a few more examples of errors in the KJV The word רְאֵם often gets translated unicorn. Literally means a wild ox The word עָרִיץ gets translated “mighty” or “in great power” a direct translation as used by every other bible translation would be tyrant. And that’s not even getting into controversy scholarly debates like the long ending of mark or the hight of Goliath Oh worth mentioning I have deeply studied this and plan on doing my doctorate on it
King James onlyists seem to have forgotten about the love of God and just want to be the anthropological embodiment of God’s wrath. Don’t recall ever meeting a kind KJO.
Funny enough, I just read Jeremiah 9:26 and here's what it says in the KJV, "...and ALL the house of Israel are uncircumcised in the heart." The thing is though, Jeremiah was circumcised in the heart, and yet this commenter isn't going to use the same standard he's using been using against modern versions against the KJV here. Like you said, "all" can just mean people as a whole or a lot of people.
Interesting how these folks troll even someone's comments to a review of a "modern translation". I have been confronted in response to a comment stating my preference for the ESV. He was arguing for KJVO trying to correct my "error" by using a similar type example. Despite his continued attempts to "save" me I have remained committed to my ESV, CSB, LSB, and 1984 NIV.
It's obvious that this KJVO guy is very anti-modern Bible versions, as well as anti-Catholic. He seems to believe that all modern versions of the Bible are somehow involved in some sort of conspiracy with the Catholic Church to water down the word of God by using so called "Alexandrian" texts. Just for his information, I would point out that one of the oldest English versions of the Bible, the Douay Rheims, a Catholic version, which in fact is older than the KJV, reads thusly in Heb. 3:16- " For some who heard did provoke: but not all who came out of Egypt by Moses." And Acts 8:36-38 reads, "And as they went on their way, they came to a certain water; and the eunuch said, ' See, here is water; what doth hinder me from being baptized?' And Phillip said, ' If thou believest with all thy heart, thou mayest.' And he answering said, ' I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.' And he commanded the chariot to stand still; and they went down into the water, both Phillip and the eunuch: and he baptized him." I am not Roman Catholic, and I don't believe that the Catholic Church is trying to lead anyone away from the word of God.
I use to be a KJVO until I grew in my faith and my studies. I am now a collector of the different versions and use them in my studies. I think the KJVO people can get caught in that idol worship snair using the KJV bible.
Did you do a video on why you moved from Accordance to Logos? In this video you use Logos, yet you say you do not have as many translations in Logos as you do in Accordance, so why didn't you use Accordance in this video?
Everyone should read the Dedicatory Epistle of the King James translators .One section says ---"we shall be maligned by self-conceited brethren,who run their own ways, and give liking unto nothing,but that which is framed by themselves,and hammered on their anvil ---"
Technically KJB is a more correct abbreviation than KJV. In Britain, the King James was always officially titled the "Authorised Version". In the Americas it was officially the "King James Bible". Calling it the "King James Version" is a more recent trend which is a merger of its two official names.
@@stephengray1344 21st century all of them, but that's not exactly relevant. The vast majority of the time you have someone say King James Bible instead of King James Version, it's because they don't think it is a version.
@@fnjesusfreak You may well be right. But we probably shouldn't assume that this is the reason for them saying "Bible" rather than "Version" unless and until they make that clear in something useless they say.
I have to admit that I have two diametrically opposed emotional responses: 1) Love. I have been taught more by your response (humility) than by your response apologetically. Oh that I would be so gracious in my debates, and 2) Anger. I want so badly to watch people like this squirm but I bet they won't reply logically.
I truly understand that some revisions in certain translations can bring in heresy; but the “angry this version only” people are exhausting. I’m sure there are people wanting to learn about God that encounter these people and just walk away from the pursuit of God. I was reading comments on a NIV “Jesus study Bible “ on FB a week ago. One person simply asked if the publisher would please do a KJV of this study Bible. An antiKJV zealot came along and posted multiple essay long comments on the corrupt mistakes within the KJV. Then they proclaimed that God has led them to teach people not to trust the KJV. 🤦🏼♂️
23:04 so the difference is that if the accent is not there over the iota, it means “some, particular” and if it is there, it’s an interrogative pronoun (who, what, which, why)
I've run across too many KJV Onlyists and always come away with a combination of sadness and disgust. The disgust is reserved for the nasty zealots. The sadness at the ones who refuse to even entertain the mere possibility that they might not be correct. I've met some that are not fanatical, they just love the style. I've met others who think you're not saved if you use any other translation. The former I can deal with, the Latter, I avoid like the plague.
I would suggest carrying a few pages that are actual photo copies of the ORIGINAL 1611 KJV and ask some of these KJV Only people to read it. They can't because the "original KJV" that they read is actually the 1885 (if memory serves) revision. And in any event, it's not the version you read, but the version you OBEY that matters. "Olegig" has an obedience issue.
In all fairness, the only modern language version I could find that stayed with the older versions is the Revised Geneva Translation: "For some, when they heard, provoked Him to anger (though not all who came out of Egypt with Moses)." - Hebrews 3:16 Not that I think he's right, or that I believe KJV-onlyism, but this is a modern version that phrases that like the 1611 AKJV does (also many older versions do, 1899 Douay-Rheims does, 1599 Geneva does, Wycliffe does, Youngs Literal does, some newer versions of KJV render it the old way, some the new way, seems random, there's also a couple translations that seem to render it half & half both ways). P.S.: The King James Version is beautiful, but the only accurate version is the original languages, period, such is the nature of translation itself.
Boils down to TR or Majority text. I'll stick with the one that was passed down as that fits with God preserving it through the generations. It's also the only one we get statistically impossible number patterns from.
I prefer whichever text is closest to the Inspired original writings insofar as we are able to determine. But I'm not sure what you mean by "statistically impossible number patters", I'm afraid.
@@DiscipleDojo So you don't think God preserved it? Which do you think is closest then, TR or Majority? I don't know if you're familiar but there codes in the old Hebrew too. For the KJV patterns, i had them pointed out to me by "Truth Is Christ" & "Truth is Christ 2", on here. He also has a free book, "Sealed by the King".
Well great.....Deal with my questions!😀 1)....When Moses talked to Pharaoh undoubtedly they communicated in Egyptian, yet the written text was in Hebrew; if there is a discrepancy between these two originals, which one is more authoritative? 2)......What 'reading' can you list that we possess today that the Authorized King James Bible translators did not have access to? 3)......Can it be proved conclusively that the English text of the Authorized King James Bible is not the perfect and infallible words of God Almighty, and that it is not exactly the way God wanted it in English?
@@Kingjamesbible1611-r the answer to all three: You have been misled by a man-made doctrine that no Christians throughout church history (including the KJV translators themselves) ever believed.
@DiscipleDojo Thanks for your post.... I am not your normal KJVO guy! I do not have a mean spirit... If someone wants to believe the NIV or ASV bibles are good, ok with me! Now, please at least attempt to answer each one of my questions.... Thanks....
I wonder what the position of KJV-onlyists is regarding The Translators to the Reader? Surely they’ve all read it…right? Do they think the KJV translators just weren’t aware they were being uniquely inspired?
Something i learned recently is the King (james) wanted a bible that supported the monarchy and changed or removed scripture that was critical of monarchies. Follow the money.
So, the ESV comes in the ESV2016, the ESV-CE (for the Catholics) and the Gideon's-ESV (to sell to the Gideon's) --- Follow the money? LOGOS Bible Software sells Verbum Bible software for the Catholics... -- Follow the money?
Some of these KJV-only people have turned their preferred translation into an idol.
Yep. And that's the irony of him quoting Ezekiel.
I was going to say this, this person and the other KJV only people have turned the KJV into a idol.
The other thing is I have asked them why would Yahweh choose the KJV when it’s not even the first English translation Holy Scripture, and it’s also not even the first language the Holy Scriptures was written in. I have not received an answer to this question yet.
Nothing to do with preference, all to do with Gods perfect book.
@@joshmccartney777 are you a KJV only person?
I wouldn't say it's an idolization. I think that's your perception. The reason why there are so many people passionate about the King James version is because they could see a more Godly intent by more, quite frankly, men inspired by God. If you research the translators of the original revised edition in the late 1800s which currently drives most translations today, There definitely seems to be an attempt to use the worst possible manuscripts available in an attempt to water down the beauty and power of God's word and once again this is my humble opinion, but it is shared by many other people who actually study the Bible.
Dojo, you may not think that you're patient, but this was an excellent reasoned response. Well done.
Well, I did edit out a few more snarky bits. 😅
@Hold Fast Mard Wark is literally the most patient and courteous guy when dealing with these KJVO 🥜🧠 fanatics, much more then he should in fact because the hardcore ones are really viscious, nasty and vile people!
@Hold Fast Mark does a remarkable job in being gracious, even when he is being voraciously attacked. He admits that sometimes it's hard because of the demeaning comments, to the point of calling him a heretic and unregenerate. He is more than willing to engage with anyone as long as they will be respectful in the interchange.
@@DiscipleDojo Oh, you should not hold back on your snarky bits. Us in the KJVO camp enjoy ad hominem attacks. Maybe call us Ruckmanites, that is always enjoyable.
What I have found is once the snarky bits and "I can read Greek" arguments are done people like you really struggle. Let's take a moment to discuss 1 Cor 6:9 in the NRSVue and how that impacts your submission to "Godly Scholars." That is always fun. How about you give your Scholarly opinion on which of the ESV2016, ESV-CE or Gideon's-ESV is correct. Maybe you could chime in how selling Verbum impacts theological decisions of LOGOS software.
@Hold Fast Well, unfortunately I think Dr. Ward knows his stuff pretty well and could probably hold up a bit against the David Daniels type but he is producing as his target audience more the average person that does not have a lot of knowledge. When you listen to he David Daniels type it is obvious there is a lot more to the defense of KJVO than what people like to pretend there is, but an honest argument is not what they are looking for.
I try to engage in Copyright application requirements an protection as related to Bible version, which I feel is a huge issue and no one ever wants to engage because logically at the end of the day you are almost forced to be either KJVO, NKJVO or NASB1977 Only. I have never had anyone have any good response to copyright issues, usually it just comes down to "trust the Godly Scholars"
Just wanted to say thanks brother. Mark Ward has an excellent channel for those who want to know more. I've never been KJVO but some dear friends of mine went that way so I started looking into it. What I came away with was that I was sort of unconsciously staying away from some of the more modern translations because I heard those accusations but back then I didn't really have time to look into it. So thanks KJVO brethren, I have started reading my NIV and NLT again and also got an ESV and CSB and am enjoying the different translation choices compared to my "watered down NKJV" that I've been exclusively using for a couple of decades.
Hebrews 3:16 is a consistent error in new versions
If you gain a deeper and more accurate doctrinal theology, you will eventually see modern translations as helpful, but the KJV/NKJV as the final authority.
Different issue: I’m new to Christianity: but the church I go to use’s the NIV. I notice 5 times where those who don’t believe go to death, but in the KJV go to hell. This has always perplexed me. Just asking.
Love your post and Jesus is king
@@timdieckman2162that’s because hell just means the grave. Makes sense still.
believe this was the most compassionate and intelligent reaction to this this person who was not just making his or her point, but being very insulting and personal at the same time. Kudos!! I love your show as I am a bible need myself.
Great response. It is really hard to stay patient with such obvious mistakes. I got into a debate with a KJV-Onlyist recently online, and the guy was so evasive. He would literally ask a question, I would answer it, and then he would dismiss that and ask another question. These poor brethren feel their faith tied to the KJV, unfortunately.
"These poor brethren feel their faith tied to the KJV, unfortunately." Well, that is correct, and a KJVO person my faith is tied to the KJB because all I now is based on the Bible. If I do not believe the Bible is a correct translation of the correct manuscripts then all I have is the tradition of man.
@@casey1167 Even the KJV was given to you by mere mortals, unless you believe in Double Inspiration, which is a whole 'nother can of worms.
@@fnjesusfreak
They all believe in double inspiration, tho most are very discreet about this due to the obvious absurdity of it all. These people will only escape this absurdity if it comes from inside themselves, while any outside questioning will only harden their shells. Time is too precious to waste discussing with hardcore KJVOnlyists.
@@casey1167 So because you feel that not having the perfect Bible based on the perfect manuscripts would compromise your faith, you embrace KJV onlyism? That's not a valid reason to believe something. It would be like saying, "If it rains tomorrow, I won't get to go swimming. So I don't believe it's going to rain."
But it's a false premise. Even without the perfect translation, we still have God's perfect Word. It's precisely because of textual discrepancies that we can have great confidence in the Word of God. God, in His wise providence, ordained it as such that many copies should be made, so that no one man could corrupt His Word. Through textual criticism we can know the content of the original autographs with incredible certainty, and as it pertains to essential doctrine, absolute certainty. I read my ESV and I know for a fact I am reading the Word of God because of textual criticism. The way I see it, either KJV onlyism is true (which it's not), and verses were removed, or the textual critics are correct, and the KJV has verses that were not in the original autographs. I err on the side of caution. I don't want to take a chance on reading a Bible with added verses. I had rather read a Bible with missing verses than read a Bible with added verses. Besides all that, the ESV has a far better manuscript tradition.
But regardless, I simply see no reason to put blind faith in a particular translation when the evidence doesn't justify doing so.
@@G.D.9 KJVO use the 1769, so by default none believe in double inspiration. I know saying all KJVO people believe in double inspiration sounds great, but it is just false.
Sharing this video with KJV-Onlyists from now on - this was a phenomenal response and the conclusion was the mic-drop. Awesome work on this!
Well done response! One deficit of recently published KJ Bibles is the omission of “The Translators To The Reader” essay that is invaluable in learning what the men tasked with creating the Authorized Version thought about their work and the choices they made. It also has a welcome tone of humor about the difficulty of creating a translation faithful to both the original languages and the English of the time.
There are a few (Schuyler, some Cambridge and Cambridge reprints, some TBS, the Holman KJV Study Bible) that still contain it.
@@fnjesusfreak I have it in my Schuyler. I really question those that talk about "The Translators to Reader" have actually read it though. It does not say what people think it does.
“I actually have a whole shelf” savage. This KJV Purist is just angry about something else in his life.
Your patience and research to this situation is outstanding. Thanks for your diligent stewardship.
Patience and research doesnt necessarily equate to the proper assessment. False assumption, = Fallacy of Logic.
I LOVED THIS VIDEO! Thank you. You did a fantastic job of taking us along your though process and leading us up to your conclusion. I thought it was a lovely video and it made me think twice about KJVO. And… I think I’ll contribute to your channel. Cheerio!
Glad I found your show. It’s very helpful to me. I’m rather new in ministry as a vocation. I’m a missions pastor at a church that just disaffiliated in the South Georgia conference. I grew up as a PK in the Baptist church. You cover so many great topics and I find it very informational. Thank you
My Dad was a UM pastor in the S. GA conference up until this past year. The church he's serving disaffiliated as well. It's the conference I grew up in. :-)
If they sincerely believe that's a deal breaking contraction, I fear for the security of their faith
As a kjv-onlyist who fellowships & loves those with those who aren't kjvo I don't spam, nor do i get hostile with people who think differently. I look for healthy conversation, never a hostile experience with someone else. I can't change minds. Disciple Dojo thanks for your content & for not showing enmity towards those who are kjvo.
Can I just add that as a newer believer in Christ I cannot read KJB at all. I have tried dozens of times, and I will have to read a sentence more than dozen times in order to even understand what the text was saying. I'm currently reading NIV (your video on the Life Application Study Bible sold me), and its far easier for me to read and understand. It does trip me up sometimes when it comes to people's speech (currently studying the book of Job), but I'm able to get a pretty good grasp of the idea behind a lot of the verses and conversations.
One day I will try to read KJB again once I have a better understanding of the word of God, but until then I am pretty confident that what I am reading is sound and holy. This video is a lot of the reason why I attend a nondenominational church. Too many Christians chastising each other on how to worship God when, at least to me, your personal relationship with God is what really matters.
As a side note I would love your take on The Message. I bought one years ago for how easy it reads, but only read the first 5 books of the bible with it. NIV resonated with me a lot more, but I will break out The Message whenever I am reading something and having a difficult time grasping the text.
Thank you for your content my dude, and thank you for helping me to build my relationship with God.
Grace and Peace to You. May I Contact you via email or facebook to Discuss this Further?
I have found that reading the KJV is a little easier after you've read an easier to read version (like the NIV). God bless you!
I think I have a good suggestion. If you get a parallel Bible with each version side by side, you can make excellent comparisons!
Last 6 minutes - well said. I mean, the whole episode was well said but your summary was my favorite part.
Thank you for this! The videos will be very helpful in our Church!
This was really great! I really appreciate how you didn't pick on spelling mistakes, very classy. I think KJV Onlyists can have an unhealthy focus on convincing others that KJV is the only real Bible. Thanks for answering their questions, hopefully someone who might have found the argument convincing can have knowledge to keep them out of the KJVO movement
Thank you,,JM. Nice tone in a strange,unpleasant situation.🌹🌹🌹🌹
All glory to Jesus Christ
The commenter reminds of the story of an old member of a congregation upset with the minister preaching from an alternative version of the Bible standing and waving his KJV Bible screaming "if this was good enough for Paul, it's good enough for me"
😂
But...but...you don't understand! If you were a true biblical scholar, you would know that God certainly gave the KJV to the Israelites when they were wandering in the wilderness. See, God rained down manna and yes, in one sense it was this flaky white stuff, but it's also a reference to Jesus, who is the bread (manna) of life. And since Jesus is the Word of God, then what the Israelites must have received was the true word of God, the KJV, that points to Jesus in the New Covenant. And you would also realize that King James English is the true language of God and the angels. It's all THERE, which you would realize if you were right with God and allowed the Holy Spirit to show you that the way of life is KJV...the Word...Jesus...the way, the truth, and the life. KJV and none other!!! (This is a probably poor attempt at humor for the impaired. :D )
😂😂😂😂😂😂
You not only put a crack in it, you shattered it! Great video, very edifying. Every translation is an interpretation, that's exactly right and what I tell people all the time. Critical thinking and objectivity is so important with textual criticism, and the KJV only camp in many was just ignores these necessary principles and thus remain ignorant by their own stubbornness and arrogance. Keep up the great work. God bless!
Brilliant response Disciple Dojo.
Well put! Love your videos. Keep up the great work Brother!
Great angles , thanks mate.
Your onto it.
From Andrew
New Zealand
I wonder why thy critic doest not writeth in the royal English? 🙋🏻♂️🤔
🤣 lol exactly!
Actually, since the KJB is a revision of the Bishop's Bible, and the Bishop's a revision of Tyndale....
Much respect if he didest such.
@@casey1167...?
This was wonderful, Thankyou for your detailed explanation!! 🥰
Your video helps me not only understand the issue and topic of what you are talking about but also to help me in where I can get similar helps with supposedly contradictions in other matters. Thank you for what you do and even though you can explain why you believe what you believe, we as humble Christians always know that when there is a agenda that we’re fighting against sometimes they’re really willing to go to death so they don’t have to look inside themselves and see themselves in the. Sincerely, circular reasoning trapped inside of revolving door. God bless brother.
Damn, it almost made sense at the end what I said, lol
Some of the hard core KJVO people remind me of those hard core vegetarians or vegans. It’s not enough that they choose to restrict their diets for whatever reason. They have to call out the rest of the world for not eating their way. I use multiple translations to see if/how they differ. The best Bible translation question has a simple answer: the best Bible translation is the one that you will actually read!
That's an interesting comparison. Obviously, many vegetarians will become so because of their problems with factory farming and other practices that run the risk of being cruel and unethical. In my experience, they are far less judgmental toward poor rural communities relying on seasonal hunting to support their families.
So too, a KJVO person really should distinguish between categories of translations. _Better to use the NRSV than the NWT. Better to use the NIV than the NRSV. Better to use the CSB than the NIV. Better to use the NASB than the CSB. Better to use the NKJV than the NASB._ Such nuance can make their own stance seem more reasonable: the KJV is the best, but there are degrees of acceptability beyond it.
@@MAMoreno "the best Bible translation is the one that you will actually read!" --- this is a really bad decision point.
@@casey1167 The point of that statement is that a CEV that you actually read is better than a YLT that collects dust on the shelf, no matter how much you hypothetically favor strict literalism over interpretation. Objectively, the ASV is better than the ICB, but if you can't make any sense of the ASV, you'll get more from the ICB.
But once you get past the slogan's rhetorical point, you can go on to say that not all versions of the same type are of the same caliber. You can think that essentially literal translations in the Tyndale-Coverdale tradition are better than all others without thinking that the NKJV, NASB, ESV, NRSV, and MEV are all equally good. Theological biases and textual bases will probably play a role in your viewpoint.
So too, you can say that semi-literal or "middle ground" translations are the best while still having a preference between the CSB, NET, NIV, and NAB. You can argue that the NJB is to be preferred over the REB and CEB among the semi-paraphrastic versions, and you can insist on using the TEV over the NLT and NCV as a "kiddie" version. (And you can toss the true paraphrases right in the trash if you wish. Okay, maybe you should just banish them to Goodwill instead...)
@@MAMoreno The Goodwill is were I obtained those versions..... remember I am 55.... I was doing comparison between version manually for a long time.
So, what is the Bible? is it more comparable to "Gone with the Wind" or the "IRS Tax Code"??
I would say the IRS Tax Code. If I am doing tax returns I want the Code, and could care less how easy it is to read. Not saying the YLT is perfect (actually, I don't really like it), but I want to know as close to possible what the Word of God is, I don't want to be concerned the entire time I am reading the Bible about the liberty modern translators are taking with the text. I of course understand the KJB translators took some liberties in translation but the NLT??
I read it a lot, and I have to look up words from time to time, but the KJB simply is not that hard to read.
except for some of the Psalms and Proverbs, reading for enjoyment just is not there for me. It is reading to learn.
One thing with the KJB that you simply don't have with any modern version is 400 years of people trying to find problems with the translation, but then again no other Bible but the KJB (except many the LSB now) does anyone claim is the correct Word of God.
@@casey1167 I would say that we very much disagree on this point. Only a small portion of the Bible is anything like the IRS Tax Code (the 613 laws of the Torah). Other parts such as the books of Judges, Samuel, and Kings have more in common with Gone with the Wind: a sprawling epic following a morally flawed character's perseverance through wartime and its aftermath. We might even throw in the book of Ruth, where the titular female figure goes through tragic circumstances and finds herself struggling in the fields to avoid going hungry before improving her situation through marriage. Conversely, books such as Psalms and Proverbs have little resemblance to either tax codes or 20th century historical fiction novels.
When I do opt to grab the KJV from my bookshelf, it is very much for enjoyment and not for learning. It's one of my two primary "read simply for the pleasure of it" translations, with the other being the Revised English Bible. When I read for learning or reflection, I use the NRSV and ESV. (They just happen to offer a high level of literary beauty alongside their academic qualities.) I typically use other translations exclusively online unless I'm in a library. There is a well-worn NASB/Amplified parallel Bible on my shelf too, but it doesn't get nearly as much use as my NRSVs and ESVs.
Excellent lession Brother
I used to be KJVO but I moved on once I started exegetical study and expository preaching… I still use the KJV but kjvOnlyism is man made theology and so often unchristlike in its defense
Amen, man!
"and so often unchristlike in its defense" I agree, but please. There are plenty of those who wont touch the KJV that are unchristlike in their assessments of KJV onlyism. But that isnt why I am responding to you. Being unchristlike doesnt automatically mean KJV interpretation isn't superior to the other translations. That is fallacious reasoning. So, what the real issue is here is that many people look at the translations only from a reading perspective. Even I sometimes have trouble with the older english and rely on the modern translations to help. You know, to get a "shallow" overview. It is when you really become solid in your foundations that you begin to see the blatant and significant errors in the modern translations. So, I guess it depends on what you mean by a KJV onlyist. I have several modern translations, with CSB/HCSB being my favorite, but I ultimately rely on the KJV as the final authority for my doctrine. Does that make me a KJV "onlyist"?
@@treefellonya I like to describe myself as KJV best, not KJV only. In my church, we use the KJV for all teaching but it's not a taboo thing to have and talk about modern translations.
Bravo Sensei, well done! I appreciate you brother.
I have several translations and study snd refer back and forth between them, but I enjoy reading KJV, the poetry is beautiful. Thank you for your patience with the comment theologian and your diligence in your response.
I thought you were perfectly generous with the critic. Also, really enjoyed the exposition on the different translations.
Keep up the good work!
I will say... John 3:16 when it leaves my mouth, comes out kjv. But i use NIV for everyday
The KJV is more memorable for sure. It's had 400+ years to cement itself in the cultural consciousness.
@user-kc7xk6wy2z English speaking culture* I’d rather understand Gods word than use the kjv and guess at its meaning
I don’t use my KJV, however, I do sometimes like to quote *certain* scripture in KJV just for their poetic quality. But only if the text that’s accurately translated.
God’s blessing falls upon you i’m “sure” Mr. DiscipleDojo! =•)
Thoughtful and just review. Subbed, liked and looking forward to more. Oh, and yes: I will review older posts. (I have seen some others previously). Thank you for your encouraging work.
This issue is not a Western issue aline. I am Romanian-American, and there is a specific Romanian translation many Romanians cherish to the exclusion of modern Romanian translations.
This is very interesting! I wonder how many other language/ethnic groups have an "Authorized Version". Is the preferred Romanian translation understandable to modern Romanian readers?
@@annagaiser5186 I think most do. I think this is a the case for German, Spanish and French at least.
@@annagaiser5186 It’s outdated by almost a hundred years.
I've long wondered if this was unique to English or not.
@@BiblicalTeachings No, that is not the stance of the KJVO. Just because someone says that is does not mean that is where most are.
main reason for me not mainly using the kjv. i do NOT want to be looped in with those fanatics
Also a lot of people say 1611 King James went about 99% of the King James translations that are out there are 1769. You have to special order a 1611 King James. Some of them even have the margin notes that were in the original 1611 King James
Ok, LOL, you made me get up and look. I only have 1 KJV that was given to me in grade school. Hardback, pages are all brown and brittle and I opened it up very carefully and looked - 1611. Earlier today I ordered a new KJV (not NKJV, I already have one of those) so that I could have one that I wasn't afraid to handle. Didn't even know about your point so didn't know to check on it. So it will be interesting to see what comes. Thanks for the point of interest.
Yes, there were changes in the spelling of words and punctuation in the later versions.
@@fourltrman About 300 word I believe. Tons of spelling. But when compared to the 44,000 changes between the NASB1977 and NASB1995, it is not that bad.
@@casey1167 You misunderstand my statement I think. I am not criticizing the AKJV. I'm merely stating facts.
@@fourltrman Well, I have seen many times where people have been told there are thousands of changes between the 1611 and the 1769 (which is true) and they loose faith in the KJB. While noting there have been changes in words, which really gets rid of any re-inspiration beliefs, the idea thousands of change have been made is problematic unless one realize almost all changes deal with spelling.
The English language is not the only translation of Biblical Texts.
Thanks for your reasoned response to the KJV Onlyist.
Mark is great. And your response was spot on. Well done. Wonder how s/he will respond, if at all.
Excellent video! Amazing job!
When you want something to be so you will ignore everything to the contrary. That is simply the case for the commenter. I came from a KJV only background. But also doesn't matter what the subject is it could be KJV only ism or it can be someone who ignores their addictions because they don't want to see the facts.
Good video. The mischievous side of me thinks you should have written a response to the question in η καινή διάλεκτος 😂
Blessings
Disciple Dojo I am a Roman Catholic so I am not sure that my support for you will be helpful! Many of your subscribers probably have doubts that I am a Christian.However I am subscriber to your channel and this year have watched all of the videos on Leviticus and Revelation.Your channel is awesomel! I have learned so much.I think the criticisms made in today's video by Oleg were bang out of order and your response was measured God Bless you and your ministry
Thanks but I did not apologise for my Catholic Faith.
Another Catholic here. As a translation nerd, I thought the video’s answer was spot on.
I would like to believe that no one here would doubt that you are a Christian.🙌
I may sound kinda poetic, but that was beautifully exposed! Great exercise for showing your growth in virtudes of patient 😊
So if I leave an annoying comment on all your videos, you will make a whole video about me?
If your comments give him an opportunity to teach!!
Btw, enjoyed your video with ip
🤣🤣🤣 great idea
@@danieljoshua4352 appreciate it!!
I am sure that you are correct in your analysis, because no one wearing a Georgia Bulldogs shirt can be deceived!
Go Dawgs!! 😅
The kJV really does do a beautiful job when describing creation.
Is the KJV Jesus different than the NIV Jesus? Honestly I love the KJV as my daily Bible, but I haven’t ever found a different Jesus when reading any of my other translations.
Are you willing to make a TPT video Brian Simmons seems to be changing certain things and I am curious your thoughts on if this makes it a viable translation
The TPT is on par with the NWT in my opinion. Mark Ward and Mike Winger have put out excellent exposes of the nonsense involved with that paraphrase. I don't have anything of substance that I would add to what they've already said.
Brian Simmons is the new Joseph Smith.
That is the first time I have ever learned of KJVO. How interesting. Well, the beauty and poetry of the KJV & NKJV can't be denied. I currently study by way of a number of translations and when I read my KJV and NKJV it is helpful to have other translations, such as the NIV, ESV, NASB and even paraphrase Bibles as the NLT, to enlighten my heart. To those who feel the only way to study is through only specific versions, i say, if that is what the Holy Spirit informs you, then may He bless your journey as is His will. ❤ If you find yourself intimidated by other translations, be assured, The Lord knows our hearts. It is all about our relationship with Him.
Well done, sir. 👏🏾
I love the king james. I also love the nlt . I also love the nasb. Actually i love all the translations that tell the truth of Christ. That he is the way, the truth and the life. That no one comes to the Father but through Christ. Every man after his maner. And I use the translation of "man" as all human kind. If you prefer "people" thats cool too. We are commanded to love one another. Condemn the sin, not the person. Any who. Thanks for all you do on this channel. 🙏
Thank you so very much for clearing up this man made mess.
Dojo, compared to me, you have the patience of a mule on this one, lol
Great video. Love Mark Ward’s work.
Love the KJV as I grew up with that version. But I use multiple translations (NIV/NASB) in ‘23 and planning on RSV in ‘24.
What I find troubling about the KJVO folks is a seemingly lack of love and grace in dealing with brothers and sisters in Christ. AND if they think we’re not even true believers, do they think this tone and path will lead others to Christ?
Prayers for you brothers.
They don't generally espouse specific beliefs or denominations either, just KJV4life! and whatever numb skull schizo hollering on the internet draws their need for virtue signaling.
Outstanding. Really, very well presented.
"When does God care about the feelings or preferences of man?"
All the time. When he said through Isaiah 65:2-3: "(I shall use KJV for this fan) I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walketh in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts; A people that provoketh me to anger continually to my face".
God is so angered by the preference of the men of that time to walk in iniquity. Or how about the time where he said he was a jealous God who cares if his children are loyal to him and is long suffering, patiently enduring the sins so that more people may hear the gospel and decide to turn to Christ. I'm honestly concerned if this person knows the Lord.
King Hezekiah had to get rid of idolatry, including the bronze serpent on the pole that the Israelites burnt offerings to. God in His wisdom did not allow the Ark of the Covenant to be found so it could not be venerated apart from Him, He also inspired the Bible but kept no original copies so it may not be venerated. Yet the KJV Purists venerate the version of the bible.
Rather than show loyalty to the King Himself, Lord God of Heaven's Armies, they choose to give loyalty to the translators of the bible, and then like the Jews who despised Gentiles, insisting on the adherence of their 613 laws and circumcision for Gentile believers before they can become children of God, these KJV-only puritans do the same to believers who read the other versions. Why did the events in Pentecost happen? That speaking in tongues in churches should be accompanied by interpreters, so that it may BENEFIT THOSE who are foreigners and need a translation. If God intended for the gospel to be difficult to understand, He would have done it the Islam way and insist every believer learn the original language of Hebrew and Greek. Translations are to make it easier and more accessible for more believers of various education levels and exposure to the faith to get into the Word of God, not obscure the word.
Truly, Solomon is right in Ecclesiastes 1:10-11 (KJV again) " Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us. There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after."
It’s the same spirit that the Pharisees harbored.
The Pharisees at least could read the text! haha
It's past time for you to do a complete study on how King James modified scripture away from original language giving examples of how newer versions correct this and even document on the page where text is different.
Nah. Mark is doing that over on his channel far better than I could (or desire to) do!
Go Dawgs brother!
Hebrews 3:16 in Greek clearly says "For who having heard rebelled? but not all the ones having gone out from Egypt through Moses? It is a question. The KJV is a mistranslation turning into an indicative statement.
Great response JM. The kjv only conspiracy theory is built on fear. In my thinking it gives more power to the enemy than he has. Some KJVO books have pages and pages of these so called contradictions. It is also fed by the state of the church and some modern teachings that seem to arise with the advent of modern translations. ( slippery slope fallacy).Hopefully the commenter will receive your response and search further.
A great book to read on this subject [KJV-onlyism] is James White's THE KING JAMES ONLY CONTROVERSY.
I think its important to focus on the word rebelled in the question. All those that rebelled against God did not enter into the promised land. Joshua and Caleb entered because they were not part of the rebellion.
Thank you so much for sharing this video.
I'm also KJV-Onlyist, I read KJV only when ESV isn't at hand.
😅
The Elect Standard Version 😂
I like to use the King James overall because at least compared to the NIV ( which uses the same manuscripts as most Bibles out there today) there is greater consistency between the old and New testament as well as the name of God being more pronounced. It's almost impossible to get a really good study of the newer translations in my humble opinion.
How is the king James more consistent?
Just wanted to highlight that Heb 3:16 being a question is also supported in the NKJV. And the NKJV is also based on the textus receptus, the same underlying text translated into the KJV English.
For who, having heard, rebelled? Indeed, was it not all who came out of Egypt, led by Moses?
Hebrews 3:16 NKJV
But that would be incorrect. Not all rebelled. Not all were not allowed in the promise land.
@@casey1167 respectfully, I stand by my statement. The point I was making is that the difference comes from the English, not a text critical issue regarding the greek. You presumably phrased your comment as a support for the KJV.
@@BrianLassek Okay, which is the correct translation?
@Casey P your question assumes that there is a correct translation. If you will allow me a good faith answer, ill try. However, I have no interest in conversations that lack humility and a genuine desire for truth. Bear with me a moment.
I believe that 3 things are needed for a healthy, godly Christian life. 1) the body of Christ 2) the indewelling Holy spirit 3) the scriptures.
This means that I need have enough humility to pause and use the Holy spirit to consider the viewpoint of anyone who is a part of the body of Christ. And it also means that i must not break fellowship with another believer unless they are engaging in a heresy that dams them to hell.
When i look around the world at my Chinese and Spanish brothers (and English brothers) as well as others, their reading maintains the question format in Heb 3:16. (Google translate bellows)
cht (Chinese)
Who then heard his words and provoked him to anger? Is it not all that came out of Egypt with Moses?
EM (Spanish)
Because who were those who, having heard, provoked him? Weren't they all who came out of Egypt with Moses?
I acknowledge that the Latin volgate seems to be the lineage that the KJV used. But also keep in mind that greek, Latin, and English grammar are all different. So i am less persuaded by greek> Latin> English translation than Greek> English.
So by engaging the scriptures in their original form, and trusting the Holy spirit in my brothers through out the body of Christ (in and beyond the English speaking world) i have confidence that the modern translations are true to Gods intended meaning. i am simply not willing myself to dam my brothers and sisters around the world as heretics rather than admit that the KJV translators (in good faith) gave preference to the volgate in a way that didn't fully lcapture the original Greek. I also have no problem with this since the excellent translation they did when KJV English was common allows people to use the whole of scripture to untwist any minor translation issue.
This is enough for a TH-cam post so I'll stop now.
Bless you my brother.
That was feisty and fun!
What’s funny is the king James actually contradicts itself by his logic because of King Ahaziahs age when he started ruling (according to 2 kings 8:26 and 2 chronicles 22:2) a translation mistake many modern fixed
In fact only 2 of my top favorite translations make this error that both the NKJV And the KJV make
Ah the classic so-called contradiction in the AKJV. You are wrong. Go back and read 1 and 2nd Kings and 1st and 2nd Chronicles again and let us see if you can connect the dots. Do yourself a favor and pray to the Holy Spirit to show it to you before you go back and read it again. It will help arm you if you can because muslims use the same bs to try and disprove the bible.
I will say, the nkjv has a note that gives 22 as another number in 2nd chronicles 22:2
Clearly, you dont understand the difference between word for word and dynamic equivalence. This argument, in spite of what the TH-camr says, is much more complicated than he understands.
@@treefellonya I actually do. And that’s why on my shelf I have 5 word for word translations that all use better manuscripts than the KJV had and all of them have the correct translation on this and multiple other issues.
Here’s a few more examples of errors in the KJV
The word רְאֵם often gets translated unicorn. Literally means a wild ox
The word עָרִיץ gets translated “mighty” or “in great power” a direct translation as used by every other bible translation would be tyrant.
And that’s not even getting into controversy scholarly debates like the long ending of mark or the hight of Goliath
Oh worth mentioning I have deeply studied this and plan on doing my doctorate on it
King James onlyists seem to have forgotten about the love of God and just want to be the anthropological embodiment of God’s wrath. Don’t recall ever meeting a kind KJO.
Funny enough, I just read Jeremiah 9:26 and here's what it says in the KJV, "...and ALL the house of Israel are uncircumcised in the heart." The thing is though, Jeremiah was circumcised in the heart, and yet this commenter isn't going to use the same standard he's using been using against modern versions against the KJV here. Like you said, "all" can just mean people as a whole or a lot of people.
Interesting how these folks troll even someone's comments to a review of a "modern translation". I have been confronted in response to a comment stating my preference for the ESV. He was arguing for KJVO trying to correct my "error" by using a similar type example. Despite his continued attempts to "save" me I have remained committed to my ESV, CSB, LSB, and 1984 NIV.
It's a cultish obsession that brings needless division, sadly.
It's obvious that this KJVO guy is very anti-modern Bible versions, as well as anti-Catholic. He seems to believe that all modern versions of the Bible are somehow involved in some sort of conspiracy with the Catholic Church to water down the word of God by using so called "Alexandrian" texts. Just for his information, I would point out that one of the oldest English versions of the Bible, the Douay Rheims, a Catholic version, which in fact is older than the KJV, reads thusly in Heb. 3:16- " For some who heard did provoke: but not all who came out of Egypt by Moses." And Acts 8:36-38 reads, "And as they went on their way, they came to a certain water; and the eunuch said, ' See, here is water; what doth hinder me from being baptized?' And Phillip said, ' If thou believest with all thy heart, thou mayest.' And he answering said, ' I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.' And he commanded the chariot to stand still; and they went down into the water, both Phillip and the eunuch: and he baptized him." I am not Roman Catholic, and I don't believe that the Catholic Church is trying to lead anyone away from the word of God.
I use to be a KJVO until I grew in my faith and my studies. I am now a collector of the different versions and use them in my studies. I think the KJVO people can get caught in that idol worship snair using the KJV bible.
I enjoy your videos. Im bipolar and keep committing the same sin. Its hard for me to overcome.
Have you ever noticed the love that the King James Onlyists exhibit?
Never online!
Did you do a video on why you moved from Accordance to Logos? In this video you use Logos, yet you say you do not have as many translations in Logos as you do in Accordance, so why didn't you use Accordance in this video?
Everyone should read the
Dedicatory Epistle of the King James translators .One section says ---"we shall be maligned by self-conceited brethren,who run their own ways, and give liking unto nothing,but that which is framed by themselves,and hammered on their anvil ---"
Note his use of "KJB", since these types believe "KJV Alone = Bible Alone". Also that they lump the NKJV in with the "critical text" versions.
Technically KJB is a more correct abbreviation than KJV. In Britain, the King James was always officially titled the "Authorised Version". In the Americas it was officially the "King James Bible". Calling it the "King James Version" is a more recent trend which is a merger of its two official names.
@@stephengray1344 I have Bibles published by Cambridge University Press that say King James Version on the spine, fwiw
@@fnjesusfreak Which are almost certainly relatively modern printings.
@@stephengray1344 21st century all of them, but that's not exactly relevant.
The vast majority of the time you have someone say King James Bible instead of King James Version, it's because they don't think it is a version.
@@fnjesusfreak You may well be right. But we probably shouldn't assume that this is the reason for them saying "Bible" rather than "Version" unless and until they make that clear in something useless they say.
They focus so much on minutiae that they miss the exegetical point of what the Biblical author is saying. 🤦🏽♂️
Very well done.
KJV onlyism isn't just ignorant anti-intellectualism, its superstitious idolatry.
I have to admit that I have two diametrically opposed emotional responses: 1) Love. I have been taught more by your response (humility) than by your response apologetically. Oh that I would be so gracious in my debates, and 2) Anger. I want so badly to watch people like this squirm but I bet they won't reply logically.
I truly understand that some revisions in certain translations can bring in heresy; but the “angry this version only” people are exhausting. I’m sure there are people wanting to learn about God that encounter these people and just walk away from the pursuit of God. I was reading comments on a NIV “Jesus study Bible “ on FB a week ago. One person simply asked if the publisher would please do a KJV of this study Bible. An antiKJV zealot came along and posted multiple essay long comments on the corrupt mistakes within the KJV. Then they proclaimed that God has led them to teach people not to trust the KJV. 🤦🏼♂️
23:04 so the difference is that if the accent is not there over the iota, it means “some, particular” and if it is there, it’s an interrogative pronoun (who, what, which, why)
I've run across too many KJV Onlyists and always come away with a combination of sadness and disgust. The disgust is reserved for the nasty zealots. The sadness at the ones who refuse to even entertain the mere possibility that they might not be correct. I've met some that are not fanatical, they just love the style. I've met others who think you're not saved if you use any other translation. The former I can deal with, the Latter, I avoid like the plague.
I would suggest carrying a few pages that are actual photo copies of the ORIGINAL 1611 KJV and ask some of these KJV Only people to read it. They can't because the "original KJV" that they read is actually the 1885 (if memory serves) revision. And in any event, it's not the version you read, but the version you OBEY that matters. "Olegig" has an obedience issue.
In all fairness, the only modern language version I could find that stayed with the older versions is the Revised Geneva Translation:
"For some, when they heard, provoked Him to anger (though not all who came out of Egypt with Moses)." - Hebrews 3:16
Not that I think he's right, or that I believe KJV-onlyism, but this is a modern version that phrases that like the 1611 AKJV does (also many older versions do, 1899 Douay-Rheims does, 1599 Geneva does, Wycliffe does, Youngs Literal does, some newer versions of KJV render it the old way, some the new way, seems random, there's also a couple translations that seem to render it half & half both ways).
P.S.: The King James Version is beautiful, but the only accurate version is the original languages, period, such is the nature of translation itself.
Excellent!
The guy seems a little unwell, I'm praying for him.
Boils down to TR or Majority text. I'll stick with the one that was passed down as that fits with God preserving it through the generations. It's also the only one we get statistically impossible number patterns from.
I prefer whichever text is closest to the Inspired original writings insofar as we are able to determine. But I'm not sure what you mean by "statistically impossible number patters", I'm afraid.
@@DiscipleDojo So you don't think God preserved it? Which do you think is closest then, TR or Majority? I don't know if you're familiar but there codes in the old Hebrew too. For the KJV patterns, i had them pointed out to me by "Truth Is Christ" & "Truth is Christ 2", on here. He also has a free book, "Sealed by the King".
Well great.....Deal with my questions!😀
1)....When Moses talked to Pharaoh undoubtedly they communicated in Egyptian, yet the written text was in Hebrew; if there is a discrepancy between these two originals, which one is more authoritative?
2)......What 'reading' can you list that we possess today that the Authorized King James Bible translators did not have access to?
3)......Can it be proved conclusively that the English text of the Authorized King James Bible is not the perfect and infallible words of God Almighty, and that it is not exactly the way God wanted it in English?
@@Kingjamesbible1611-r the answer to all three:
You have been misled by a man-made doctrine that no Christians throughout church history (including the KJV translators themselves) ever believed.
@DiscipleDojo Thanks for your post.... I am not your normal KJVO guy! I do not have a mean spirit... If someone wants to believe the NIV or ASV bibles are good, ok with me! Now, please at least attempt to answer each one of my questions.... Thanks....
I wonder what the position of KJV-onlyists is regarding The Translators to the Reader? Surely they’ve all read it…right? Do they think the KJV translators just weren’t aware they were being uniquely inspired?
What is the program he’s using? With the languages on the right of the screen.
In this video I used Logos.
Something i learned recently is the King (james) wanted a bible that supported the monarchy and changed or removed scripture that was critical of monarchies. Follow the money.
So, the ESV comes in the ESV2016, the ESV-CE (for the Catholics) and the Gideon's-ESV (to sell to the Gideon's) --- Follow the money?
LOGOS Bible Software sells Verbum Bible software for the Catholics... -- Follow the money?