I just love WWI and the art/models. The lore is mid, the fanbase is toxic, and the spin on religion is pretty disrespectful to the source (most modern media is pretty terrible with its portrayal and understanding of religions). I'm collecting the minis and moving on with my life.
I feel the same, I cancelled my kickstarter because it wasn't sitting right with me. Will probably grab the Mercenary bundle when it becomes available because I really dug those models.
I do think that when people were saying “if you made this same thing but about Islam you’d be in real hot water” have more of a point that you’re saying. My reasoning is that the game seems to be mainly focused on Christian’s vs Hell and thus the Sultanate isn’t as focused on. At the same time from what I remember reading the Sultanate doesn’t seem to be shown in nearly as bad of a light as the Christians (though I’ll admit I need to reread the lore). I think if the Sultanate vs Hell was the main focus and it was given the same treatment Christianity has in this game things may very well be different
I’m treating Trench Crusade just like I treat upcoming video games. No preorders. No over hyping. I’m just going to wait till the release of the game, let it simmer for a bit and then decide if I want to buy into it or not. And I’ll admit that I like the look of this game so far. But if the game mechanics are bad, if the story is bad, if the developer support is bad and if the community is bad, I’m not going to join this hobby. No different than video games. I’ve been burned too much to fall for it anymore. And I will also say, as a Christian, what caught my eye for this game was the Trench Pilgrims. Not only do I love their look, but when I see their devotion to God, I’m like, “Yeah that’s me!”. If God passed me a Lebel rifle to slay thy enemies, I’m going in those trenches and going in with pride! And I’m hoping this game will let me do that in my brain as I play. But as I said before the game, story, etc. has to be good. I like what I see so far as lore, but I only read what lore has dropped sense the play test rules dropped. Not anything new or recent.
Yeah, using real religions brings criticism, from the adherents (practicing or not). Fact of life. Part of why I'll be unlikely to touch it given that the manner in which it's written seems to me (opinion) to be deliberately anti-Catholic with the way New Antioch and others are presented (and frankly, Islam is handled with European kid-gloves comparatively with few or no mentions of the Prophet; while many mentions are made of Christ). Numerous comments by some of the designers have also confirmed a very anti-Catholic worldview as deliberate to the design.
I guarantee you that you cannot link us to a single quote to back this up - "Numerous comments by some of the designers have also confirmed a very anti-Catholic worldview as deliberate to the design."
@@AnimeAnarchist-rp2obcomments contain innuendo not quotes. I garnered the same from some of the interviews. If you didn’t want people drawing these conclusions then you shouldn’t use real religions.
I was intrigued about the game until I heard about the community building around it, especially the Discord. It almost sounds like a bad parody of what other people think the 40k community at its worst is.
I took a peek at the discord after hearing some bad things about it. I went in, spent about a half hour scrolling about, and left with no desire to go back. They didn't present as the sort of people I would want to spend time with.
Unrelated to TC specifically, discord (and reddit) communities for hobbies are often an absolute edgelord/modsexual filled trash. I went to several servers related to channels I liked (Shadiversity for example) and then noped out of there.
@@greywanderer5935yeah I was in the original Discord group and wow it was nuts they said no politicals and stuff like that then the mods went off on politics non stop when called out on it they started to mass ban everyone... Who even asked why. It got so bad they stopped the group and left it for a couple of weeks to start a new one
The Christians should absolutely be the good guys in this setting and we should really see the contrast between the two forces, with Christians/muslims being the over the top righteous force to contrast to the full blown evil of the hell side. doesnt mean the good guys cant have blemishes but I feel like the body horror stuff on the christian side really drags the whole thing into a grey slop of moral ambiguity.
I agree. The problem with trench crusade, is you can’t really do “both sides are just as bad” When one side is literally demons. That’s like saying the serial killer and the guy who’s trying to defend himself from the serial killer are the same. Not to mention, the existence of hell would automatically validate the church and the forces fighting for heaven and earth. “Guys we know we are fighting for the right thing cause God is on our side and we fight demons.”
I will never understand Christians whining about the extreme asceticism of Trench Pilgrims, you're downplaying the most interesting aspect of your religion.
@@KnightofEkron I’m not a Christian. I’m a Atheist, apostate some would say. My criticism comes from the fact that a lot of media likes to bash Christianity to the point it’s become boring and uninteresting. You can depict the church being corrupt or Christians doing foul things just fine, but there’s only so much you can see that before you just get bored. Much like what Northern exile was saying. If both sides are just as bad, then what’s the point? Why care? Don’t get me wrong, the aesthetics are cool as hell (no pun intended) but I need more. Otherwise these ideas just get boring real fast.
"it's not my bag, baby" seems go be taken as a personal attack nowadays. Trench Crusade is not for me, as things stand. That's not me saying it's a bad game. It's not me saying it's a bad setting. It's not me saying the people who like it are wrong, or stupid, or misguided or lesser.. I'm saying it's not for me. Simple as that. Why do people get so upset by that?
Everything is meant to be inclusive so everyone can participate now. By stating that something isn't for you, it means you must be the one with the problem, since everything is inclusive.
From the artwork alone...seems to be the kind of thing that folks who like Saw, or whatever torture pron lite is currently in vogue. There's having some macabre elements in your setting, then there's wallowing in it.
I commented on the last video and I want to first thank you for a follow up and clarification of your opinion. I find myself agreeing with most of your points in both videos and absolutely agree that a lot more world building needs to be done to flush out the world. The only thing I might challenge you on is the assumption that the rest of the world will look just as hellish as the front. If you look at most war documentaries the focus is rarely about the people back home and rather on what was happening in the war. I'm not saying that the rest of the world isn't horrible, but rather that it looks like you are assuming that it is. Either way I hope we get an answer from the creators soon, and I once again thank you for the video.
I commented on the last video about how I didn’t really want to play it because I’m a Christian and it felt disrespectful to me but that was just me and everyone else is free to do whatever they want, no judgement from me. The first comment was from another Christian who felt differently and we went back and forth very respectfully. After that it was almost entirely your typical Reddit-tier fedora-tipping, “Skydaddy, skydaddy!” Nonsense. Which did little to sell me on the game or its fans.
I fully distrust the thing just based on the fact it's not Christians making it. Not that I am a Christian, but why would people make a Christian based thing while they're politically more supportive of abcwhatever+. If you are willing to answer my questions. What branch of Christianity are you from, and why do you dislike it? All I really know about trench crusade is the lore vid Arch make a couple of months back.
@ sure thing. So I’m a Baptist and very ecumenical, I think lots of denominations have a lot of man made accretions but that doesn’t mean they aren’t Christians of anything like that. I enjoy talking to other Christians and learning from them guided by the command to “work out your own salvation with fear and trembling”. As to why it feels disrespectful to me is it’s taking real and important things, the cross, the eucharist, baptism, etc… and twisting them into fodder for a game. And further twisting them in ways that feel like mockery to me, the “they eat the cloned flesh of Christ to get super powers” and the like. I’ll be the first to admit I haven’t dove deeply into the lore but I feel like I don’t really need to; I’ve seen enough. And again I fully admit this is probably a “me” problem and if others feel differently that’s okay. I feel that *I* would be being disrespectful if I played. If others feel like they can play and not be disrespectful that’s cool. Christians are taught in Romans that in some matters like this personal conviction matters a great deal and we are to at least respect other Christian’s convictions so as not to make them stumble.
It does feel like they went all out on the christian faction being basically evil in that universe. The hell one is equally evil and islam seems like the clear good guys of the setting being on par with the imperium since they are more of a 'neccesary for survival' type of grim dark.
My least favorite thing about the internet is the people who think there is only one correct opinion and everyone else is stupid. My best friend and i disagree on a lot of points but we have discussions together and we each learn more about the other side whether it sways our opinion or not is irrelevant.
First off, I want to say thank you for clarifying and I agree with with a majority of what you said. Second, I was one of those that said the Christians were the good guys and how I disagreed with your phrasing about there wasn’t any good guys. Thinking back on it, this is more a failure on trench crusade presentation, see the problem with having Hell and it’s demons as a faction, is that automatically makes the other side good, since Hell as we understand it is supposed to be unironically evil and only seeks to destroy and corrupt. (That’s not even mentioning god and his inventions) But trench crusade seems to want to present both sides as a both near equivalent to one another in both aesthetics and brutality, but again, this falls apart when you make one side literal demons.
I actually kinda _Liked_ *†✠☨✟ TRENCH CRUSADE ஓ✶❂✸* ...that is, until I discovered it was (officially) associated with *🏳⚧⚧==28 MAGAZINE==❇☑🏳🌈* ~> who famously -brought us- _Shoe-horned in:_ *Female ♀Space Marines.*
This gave me a much better idea of why you don't like this game. I was sold on the basic premise. I conceptualized it as Doom in the past in the holy land. Rather than in the future on Mars. I also didn't mind the lack of upfron lore in Dark Souls. I love watching videos piecing together lore and sprinkling in some speculation. It only makes me that much more invested
Dark Eldar are most certainly not the good guys in 40k. And people who think they are, are just 100% WRONG! NOW Craftworld Eldar are the undisputable good guys in 40k. And people that think they're not, are absolutely just WRONG. 😎 😎 😋 😎 😎
At the moment it's just skin deep. You see the pictures, get the vibe and that's it, nothing that made me curious. I hope the full release will have some substance, but I'm not expecting it.
TC is not for me. Too much body horror and disgusting art. Plus just flat out blasphemy that’s not needed. Thanks for the video and sharing your thoughts
Ok sill fully admit I was one of the people coping saying that the church are the “good guys” in TC. That could become I’m Christian and ai want to see Christian’s as good but when you tell me one side is literally Hell and their mortal followers the other side really has to be more “morally good” than that because He’ll u.s. the most evil you can get (unless it’s the forces of Hell fighting against each other). I think if you’re going to have Christian’s be a 9.5/10 in terms of evilness while demons and heretics on that scale are a 10/10 then you really need to change Christian doctrine so much it’s no longer Christian. I’m fine with the more barbaric stuff like hands nailed to a shield and a lamb hanging from what looks like a dreadnought on the good guy side IF there are reasons for it. Like they provide holy protection &/or power. Yes there needs to be places in the world that aren’t affected by the war and live more peaceful lives to show what’s being fought for. That is very important and all you can do it maybe assume that is what’s going on in certain Christian (and Muslim) nations but at best that’s a shaky foundation and at worst the lore contradicts this interpretation. Lastly again the fans really are not great. They drive away people that would normally be interested in the game and setting and cry fowl when you criticize it in any way.
I backed trench crusade because mmm trenches, ww1, cool models and Commonwealth exists(even as a note, I want to make New Antiochs mech warriors as a mech hussars), damn. And I can get 3d prints and give them to local hobby space, for everyone to at least try something new?
I'm in your camp, North. I have absolutely no interest in Trench Crusade. I havent even glanced at the lore. I dont need to. If I want Mordheim I'll play Mordheim. If I want an army of soldiers fighting demons I'll play Agents of the Imperium, Astra Militarum, Grey Knights, Space Marines... The list goes on. If I want trench warfare using real world factions... I'll play Bolt Action. I really dont see what TC has to offer.
Thank you for providing a more critical analysis of the Trench Crusade lore. I am certainly intrigued by the art and story but won’t be buying into it until its lore and models are further developed.
Agreed if you need to be the "hero" or "villain" this isn't the game for you it's factions fighting each other over resources those resources happen to be human souls as opposed to loot or weapons
they seem to be pushing forward fast without a lot of direction, i personally like the look of the antioch models , and got their STLs, but at this time i dont think ill be actually playing the game
I’ll wait for more lore to drop. Just thought the iron sultanate were cool. I’d be more for it if they didn’t use real world religions, which is why I’m still iffy about the whole thing. But my friend got his order in so I decided to join as well so I could at least try the game out. Wish they had a more stylized art style though, because the minis just look like generic 3d printed models
TC seems more of a successful _product_ competitor for WH, not _universe/world_ competitor. Plus, they focus on crowdfunding first seems like. Telling them "no mate" on putting edgy minimal world building combat first is like telling McD to stop using so much salt and sugar, cos "no mate, it is not a healthy diet". That is the point. Do agree with North that, most likely, they will leave the worldbuilding to fans via fanfiction and fan-created materials. And, again, it is a sign of a _product_.
I get the lore may not be everyone’s cup of tea, for me it’s not what I’m after in a game. This game has reignited my love of the hobby completely, I’ve painted more model than I have in the last few years and I’ve nearly completed my first battle board ever. Terrain building has always been my favourite part of the war gaming hobby in general and trench crusade has excited to build again. I do play 40K too and it’s also a good game but recently I’ve just got burnt out by it. So small skirmish games like mordhiem, frostgrave and now trench crusade are all I play (for now) Great video and your pretty fair in both your videos, your passionate about the lore and this isn’t doing it for you.
As I said in my prior comments 40k is hell, forced religion, hive/slave worlds, xenophobia, and the constant threat of violence not only from the foes of the empire, but the empire itself, respectfully this point is sadly mute. Imagine a future where the Dark Templars are in charge? Or the Tau? Different forms of slavery but slavery all the same! Hence my being a filthy heratic since 1992 lol Religious players being offended, simply put, tough, there are plenty of media forms that take a pop at religion such as Bill Hicks, comics like Preacher and songs from Lady Gaga. We have freedom of speech and expression andI will take the risk of offence over censorship any day. As to ther other points you raise well I think they come down to person choice and yes lemons are not for everyone, so step back as you say and maybe leave this one alone. And always debate is healthy and you can't please all of the people all of the time!
Great video North! Always listen to your live streams as I wire houses. I was wondering if maybe some time in the near future you could give us your thoughts on Mordheim! It is a game near and dear to me and is what got me into Warhammer Fantasy and it's extensive lore years and years ago. I know you mentioned today that it was a good game, was just looking to hear about any of your personal experience with it. Thanks!
Idc about the lore and I feel like its too early to tell anyway. The models are great tho and I personally love the evil satanic themes. Weird how it taken them so long to release the stls.
It’s interesting, I respect your opinions, but I have the exact opposite feeling about a lot of things you mention outside of trench crusade. I love the stormlight archives, I love the show don’t tell storytelling of souls games as a narrative drive. I don’t think that’s lazy, I think the opposite modernization of narrative in which you are shown and told is patronizing and insulting. I do hope that the Muslim and Judaic representation gets more nuanced, and the theming becomes more consistent, as well as the splash art across the factions. The iron sultanate feel a bit like generic dnd fantasy westerner referencing Judaic cultures at times. I imagine part of this is that Mike Franchina being a Diablo artist is comfortable upsetting devout and strict Christians but not Muslims to the same extent. The diabolical forces also are incredibly satirical in their depiction alongside the Christians, but could use some deeper cultural references to balance them as well. I think a compromise between what you want and what I want would be to give every side a bit more sympathetic lore with more cultural background reference. While I disagree that the imperium are the good guys(it’s the craftworld eldar if its anyone, and even then the ends justify the means is only so much of an argument, and they prioritize the fate of the eldar over humanity, even if they do actively protect and save humanity often), I do think 40k has a lot more sympathetic narrative ties which massively help the interest in the hobby long term for nearly every faction. I grew up Christian and studied a lot of religions throughout my life. It’s an interesting place to satirize crusade era religions to extremes. I agree it is “brave” to upset satanists, Muslims, Catholics, and the more conservative bigoted American Christians all in one setting, but I think it’s as good a place as any to have this kind of moral ethical debate of the applications of religion via satire. I think a lot of your points on the absence of narrative prompts and absence of lore are well justified and hopefully they get addressed just enough to give more to fight for for people like you, but leave plenty of room for creative expression.
I ran afoul not of the world and the religious aspects. But it doesn't have hope and heart and more so the discord and many of its current social champions... Yeah they can take the game and go to hell.
@NornQueenKya, if I remember correctly... You are/were one of the mods on that TC Discord that banned wargamers for doing what wargamers usually do when the lore is lacking, right?
I just love WWI and the art/models. The lore is mid, the fanbase is toxic, and the spin on religion is pretty disrespectful to the source (most modern media is pretty terrible with its portrayal and understanding of religions). I'm collecting the minis and moving on with my life.
I feel the same, I cancelled my kickstarter because it wasn't sitting right with me.
Will probably grab the Mercenary bundle when it becomes available because I really dug those models.
I do think that when people were saying “if you made this same thing but about Islam you’d be in real hot water” have more of a point that you’re saying.
My reasoning is that the game seems to be mainly focused on Christian’s vs Hell and thus the Sultanate isn’t as focused on. At the same time from what I remember reading the Sultanate doesn’t seem to be shown in nearly as bad of a light as the Christians (though I’ll admit I need to reread the lore).
I think if the Sultanate vs Hell was the main focus and it was given the same treatment Christianity has in this game things may very well be different
Exactly.
I’m treating Trench Crusade just like I treat upcoming video games. No preorders. No over hyping. I’m just going to wait till the release of the game, let it simmer for a bit and then decide if I want to buy into it or not. And I’ll admit that I like the look of this game so far. But if the game mechanics are bad, if the story is bad, if the developer support is bad and if the community is bad, I’m not going to join this hobby. No different than video games. I’ve been burned too much to fall for it anymore.
And I will also say, as a Christian, what caught my eye for this game was the Trench Pilgrims. Not only do I love their look, but when I see their devotion to God, I’m like, “Yeah that’s me!”. If God passed me a Lebel rifle to slay thy enemies, I’m going in those trenches and going in with pride! And I’m hoping this game will let me do that in my brain as I play. But as I said before the game, story, etc. has to be good. I like what I see so far as lore, but I only read what lore has dropped sense the play test rules dropped. Not anything new or recent.
"Grim Dark Derpieness" is my new favorite way to decribe these settings that jump the shark.
Yeah, using real religions brings criticism, from the adherents (practicing or not). Fact of life. Part of why I'll be unlikely to touch it given that the manner in which it's written seems to me (opinion) to be deliberately anti-Catholic with the way New Antioch and others are presented (and frankly, Islam is handled with European kid-gloves comparatively with few or no mentions of the Prophet; while many mentions are made of Christ). Numerous comments by some of the designers have also confirmed a very anti-Catholic worldview as deliberate to the design.
Oh yeah they will be very tame with Islam and Judaism like big time... They are going to add them later on or something BS.😊
I guarantee you that you cannot link us to a single quote to back this up - "Numerous comments by some of the designers have also confirmed a very anti-Catholic worldview as deliberate to the design."
@@AnimeAnarchist-rp2obcomments contain innuendo not quotes.
I garnered the same from some of the interviews.
If you didn’t want people drawing these conclusions then you shouldn’t use real religions.
I was turned off by trying to go to their discord to try and get a feel for the community and just walked away with a giant no thanks feeling.
I’ve heard some bad things about the discord group, the whole drama put me off checking out the game.
I was intrigued about the game until I heard about the community building around it, especially the Discord. It almost sounds like a bad parody of what other people think the 40k community at its worst is.
I took a peek at the discord after hearing some bad things about it. I went in, spent about a half hour scrolling about, and left with no desire to go back. They didn't present as the sort of people I would want to spend time with.
Unrelated to TC specifically, discord (and reddit) communities for hobbies are often an absolute edgelord/modsexual filled trash. I went to several servers related to channels I liked (Shadiversity for example) and then noped out of there.
@@greywanderer5935yeah I was in the original Discord group and wow it was nuts they said no politicals and stuff like that then the mods went off on politics non stop when called out on it they started to mass ban everyone... Who even asked why. It got so bad they stopped the group and left it for a couple of weeks to start a new one
The Christians should absolutely be the good guys in this setting and we should really see the contrast between the two forces, with Christians/muslims being the over the top righteous force to contrast to the full blown evil of the hell side. doesnt mean the good guys cant have blemishes but I feel like the body horror stuff on the christian side really drags the whole thing into a grey slop of moral ambiguity.
I agree. The problem with trench crusade, is you can’t really do “both sides are just as bad”
When one side is literally demons.
That’s like saying the serial killer and the guy who’s trying to defend himself from the serial killer are the same.
Not to mention, the existence of hell would automatically validate the church and the forces fighting for heaven and earth. “Guys we know we are fighting for the right thing cause God is on our side and we fight demons.”
I will never understand Christians whining about the extreme asceticism of Trench Pilgrims, you're downplaying the most interesting aspect of your religion.
@@KnightofEkron
I’m not a Christian. I’m a Atheist, apostate some would say.
My criticism comes from the fact that a lot of media likes to bash Christianity to the point it’s become boring and uninteresting. You can depict the church being corrupt or Christians doing foul things just fine, but there’s only so much you can see that before you just get bored.
Much like what Northern exile was saying. If both sides are just as bad, then what’s the point?
Why care?
Don’t get me wrong, the aesthetics are cool as hell (no pun intended) but I need more. Otherwise these ideas just get boring real fast.
Games workshop has their problems. But man is 40K such a unique setting and vibe that I have yet to replicate.
This. 40k is just so cool I can't quit it.
I'm looking into Golden Dragon's Lancer. I like the concept and the models. I think they're a lot better than TC and definitely cheaper than WH
Problem is it’s turning into Scooby Doo.
What’s the gang up to this episode.
The grim dark is fading with each new primarch release.
@ shit man I’d say 40K currently is pretty damn dark. But I get what you’re saying
"it's not my bag, baby" seems go be taken as a personal attack nowadays.
Trench Crusade is not for me, as things stand. That's not me saying it's a bad game. It's not me saying it's a bad setting. It's not me saying the people who like it are wrong, or stupid, or misguided or lesser..
I'm saying it's not for me. Simple as that. Why do people get so upset by that?
Everything is meant to be inclusive so everyone can participate now. By stating that something isn't for you, it means you must be the one with the problem, since everything is inclusive.
From the artwork alone...seems to be the kind of thing that folks who like Saw, or whatever torture pron lite is currently in vogue. There's having some macabre elements in your setting, then there's wallowing in it.
I commented on the last video and I want to first thank you for a follow up and clarification of your opinion. I find myself agreeing with most of your points in both videos and absolutely agree that a lot more world building needs to be done to flush out the world. The only thing I might challenge you on is the assumption that the rest of the world will look just as hellish as the front. If you look at most war documentaries the focus is rarely about the people back home and rather on what was happening in the war. I'm not saying that the rest of the world isn't horrible, but rather that it looks like you are assuming that it is. Either way I hope we get an answer from the creators soon, and I once again thank you for the video.
I commented on the last video about how I didn’t really want to play it because I’m a Christian and it felt disrespectful to me but that was just me and everyone else is free to do whatever they want, no judgement from me. The first comment was from another Christian who felt differently and we went back and forth very respectfully. After that it was almost entirely your typical Reddit-tier fedora-tipping, “Skydaddy, skydaddy!” Nonsense. Which did little to sell me on the game or its fans.
It's not surprising, the game seems purposely designed to attract anti-Christians.
I fully distrust the thing just based on the fact it's not Christians making it.
Not that I am a Christian, but why would people make a Christian based thing while they're politically more supportive of abcwhatever+.
If you are willing to answer my questions.
What branch of Christianity are you from, and why do you dislike it? All I really know about trench crusade is the lore vid Arch make a couple of months back.
@ sure thing. So I’m a Baptist and very ecumenical, I think lots of denominations have a lot of man made accretions but that doesn’t mean they aren’t Christians of anything like that. I enjoy talking to other Christians and learning from them guided by the command to “work out your own salvation with fear and trembling”.
As to why it feels disrespectful to me is it’s taking real and important things, the cross, the eucharist, baptism, etc… and twisting them into fodder for a game. And further twisting them in ways that feel like mockery to me, the “they eat the cloned flesh of Christ to get super powers” and the like. I’ll be the first to admit I haven’t dove deeply into the lore but I feel like I don’t really need to; I’ve seen enough.
And again I fully admit this is probably a “me” problem and if others feel differently that’s okay. I feel that *I* would be being disrespectful if I played. If others feel like they can play and not be disrespectful that’s cool. Christians are taught in Romans that in some matters like this personal conviction matters a great deal and we are to at least respect other Christian’s convictions so as not to make them stumble.
It does feel like they went all out on the christian faction being basically evil in that universe. The hell one is equally evil and islam seems like the clear good guys of the setting being on par with the imperium since they are more of a 'neccesary for survival' type of grim dark.
@@Dram1984 thanks for telling.
I found these past 2 vids on Trench Crusade to be a useful lay of the land.
My least favorite thing about the internet is the people who think there is only one correct opinion and everyone else is stupid.
My best friend and i disagree on a lot of points but we have discussions together and we each learn more about the other side whether it sways our opinion or not is irrelevant.
First off, I want to say thank you for clarifying and I agree with with a majority of what you said.
Second, I was one of those that said the Christians were the good guys and how I disagreed with your phrasing about there wasn’t any good guys.
Thinking back on it, this is more a failure on trench crusade presentation, see the problem with having Hell and it’s demons as a faction, is that automatically makes the other side good, since Hell as we understand it is supposed to be unironically evil and only seeks to destroy and corrupt. (That’s not even mentioning god and his inventions)
But trench crusade seems to want to present both sides as a both near equivalent to one another in both aesthetics and brutality, but again, this falls apart when you make one side literal demons.
I'll wait till they release a full version with mini's before even taking a peek. Sounds intresting on the surface.
I actually kinda _Liked_ *†✠☨✟ TRENCH CRUSADE ஓ✶❂✸* ...that is, until I discovered it was (officially) associated with
*🏳⚧⚧==28 MAGAZINE==❇☑🏳🌈* ~> who famously -brought us- _Shoe-horned in:_
*Female ♀Space Marines.*
Don't worry about the trolls @Northern exile. I love trench crusade but all your comments are completely fair as far as I am concerned! Well met sir.
This gave me a much better idea of why you don't like this game. I was sold on the basic premise. I conceptualized it as Doom in the past in the holy land. Rather than in the future on Mars. I also didn't mind the lack of upfron lore in Dark Souls. I love watching videos piecing together lore and sprinkling in some speculation. It only makes me that much more invested
I'll continue to play 40k with OPR...Trench Crusade...seems to want to shock people without much actual substance
Dark Eldar are most certainly not the good guys in 40k. And people who think they are, are just 100% WRONG!
NOW Craftworld Eldar are the undisputable good guys in 40k. And people that think they're not, are absolutely just WRONG.
😎 😎 😋 😎 😎
The inquisition wants to know your location
@@bc9402
Tera.
Blackium libereum streetius.
Building E.
Level L.
Section D.A.
Unit R.
Number 1.
No gun's allowed.
Are you by any chance a fan of pancreasnowork?
Never heard anyone say that the dark Eldar are the good guys😂
It looks cool but I'm not sold on the rules or miniatures.
I don't have a dog in this fight so I'll just watch what happens and make an informed decision once the game fully releases
The art doesn’t even impress me. It’s just someone who copied Scary Stories to Tell in the Dark meets Blasphemous.
At the moment it's just skin deep. You see the pictures, get the vibe and that's it, nothing that made me curious. I hope the full release will have some substance, but I'm not expecting it.
TC is not for me. Too much body horror and disgusting art. Plus just flat out blasphemy that’s not needed. Thanks for the video and sharing your thoughts
It's fine I'd you don't like what someone else likes.. I'll never understand why people take such a thing personally
Ok sill fully admit I was one of the people coping saying that the church are the “good guys” in TC. That could become I’m Christian and ai want to see Christian’s as good but when you tell me one side is literally Hell and their mortal followers the other side really has to be more “morally good” than that because He’ll u.s. the most evil you can get (unless it’s the forces of Hell fighting against each other).
I think if you’re going to have Christian’s be a 9.5/10 in terms of evilness while demons and heretics on that scale are a 10/10 then you really need to change Christian doctrine so much it’s no longer Christian. I’m fine with the more barbaric stuff like hands nailed to a shield and a lamb hanging from what looks like a dreadnought on the good guy side IF there are reasons for it. Like they provide holy protection &/or power.
Yes there needs to be places in the world that aren’t affected by the war and live more peaceful lives to show what’s being fought for. That is very important and all you can do it maybe assume that is what’s going on in certain Christian (and Muslim) nations but at best that’s a shaky foundation and at worst the lore contradicts this interpretation.
Lastly again the fans really are not great. They drive away people that would normally be interested in the game and setting and cry fowl when you criticize it in any way.
I backed trench crusade because mmm trenches, ww1, cool models and Commonwealth exists(even as a note, I want to make New Antiochs mech warriors as a mech hussars), damn. And I can get 3d prints and give them to local hobby space, for everyone to at least try something new?
I'm in your camp, North. I have absolutely no interest in Trench Crusade. I havent even glanced at the lore. I dont need to.
If I want Mordheim I'll play Mordheim.
If I want an army of soldiers fighting demons I'll play Agents of the Imperium, Astra Militarum, Grey Knights, Space Marines... The list goes on.
If I want trench warfare using real world factions... I'll play Bolt Action.
I really dont see what TC has to offer.
Thank you for providing a more critical analysis of the Trench Crusade lore. I am certainly intrigued by the art and story but won’t be buying into it until its lore and models are further developed.
The art is kinda cool, but I definitely agree there needs to be more to the story to make me care about it.
We'll still be able to send in nightmares and minis, even if they trench crusade related, yea?
i found this vid totally random but i think you explained your point extremely well gl in whatever argue u have with these fandom guys
Agreed if you need to be the "hero" or "villain" this isn't the game for you it's factions fighting each other over resources those resources happen to be human souls as opposed to loot or weapons
they seem to be pushing forward fast without a lot of direction, i personally like the look of the antioch models , and got their STLs, but at this time i dont think ill be actually playing the game
I’ll wait for more lore to drop. Just thought the iron sultanate were cool. I’d be more for it if they didn’t use real world religions, which is why I’m still iffy about the whole thing. But my friend got his order in so I decided to join as well so I could at least try the game out.
Wish they had a more stylized art style though, because the minis just look like generic 3d printed models
TC seems more of a successful _product_ competitor for WH, not _universe/world_ competitor. Plus, they focus on crowdfunding first seems like. Telling them "no mate" on putting edgy minimal world building combat first is like telling McD to stop using so much salt and sugar, cos "no mate, it is not a healthy diet". That is the point.
Do agree with North that, most likely, they will leave the worldbuilding to fans via fanfiction and fan-created materials. And, again, it is a sign of a _product_.
I get the lore may not be everyone’s cup of tea, for me it’s not what I’m after in a game. This game has reignited my love of the hobby completely, I’ve painted more model than I have in the last few years and I’ve nearly completed my first battle board ever. Terrain building has always been my favourite part of the war gaming hobby in general and trench crusade has excited to build again. I do play 40K too and it’s also a good game but recently I’ve just got burnt out by it. So small skirmish games like mordhiem, frostgrave and now trench crusade are all I play (for now)
Great video and your pretty fair in both your videos, your passionate about the lore and this isn’t doing it for you.
As I said in my prior comments 40k is hell, forced religion, hive/slave worlds, xenophobia, and the constant threat of violence not only from the foes of the empire, but the empire itself, respectfully this point is sadly mute.
Imagine a future where the Dark Templars are in charge? Or the Tau? Different forms of slavery but slavery all the same! Hence my being a filthy heratic since 1992 lol
Religious players being offended, simply put, tough, there are plenty of media forms that take a pop at religion such as Bill Hicks, comics like Preacher and songs from Lady Gaga. We have freedom of speech and expression andI will take the risk of offence over censorship any day.
As to ther other points you raise well I think they come down to person choice and yes lemons are not for everyone, so step back as you say and maybe leave this one alone.
And always debate is healthy and you can't please all of the people all of the time!
Great video North! Always listen to your live streams as I wire houses.
I was wondering if maybe some time in the near future you could give us your thoughts on Mordheim! It is a game near and dear to me and is what got me into Warhammer Fantasy and it's extensive lore years and years ago. I know you mentioned today that it was a good game, was just looking to hear about any of your personal experience with it. Thanks!
Idc about the lore and I feel like its too early to tell anyway. The models are great tho and I personally love the evil satanic themes. Weird how it taken them so long to release the stls.
It’s interesting, I respect your opinions, but I have the exact opposite feeling about a lot of things you mention outside of trench crusade. I love the stormlight archives, I love the show don’t tell storytelling of souls games as a narrative drive. I don’t think that’s lazy, I think the opposite modernization of narrative in which you are shown and told is patronizing and insulting.
I do hope that the Muslim and Judaic representation gets more nuanced, and the theming becomes more consistent, as well as the splash art across the factions. The iron sultanate feel a bit like generic dnd fantasy westerner referencing Judaic cultures at times. I imagine part of this is that Mike Franchina being a Diablo artist is comfortable upsetting devout and strict Christians but not Muslims to the same extent. The diabolical forces also are incredibly satirical in their depiction alongside the Christians, but could use some deeper cultural references to balance them as well. I think a compromise between what you want and what I want would be to give every side a bit more sympathetic lore with more cultural background reference. While I disagree that the imperium are the good guys(it’s the craftworld eldar if its anyone, and even then the ends justify the means is only so much of an argument, and they prioritize the fate of the eldar over humanity, even if they do actively protect and save humanity often), I do think 40k has a lot more sympathetic narrative ties which massively help the interest in the hobby long term for nearly every faction.
I grew up Christian and studied a lot of religions throughout my life. It’s an interesting place to satirize crusade era religions to extremes. I agree it is “brave” to upset satanists, Muslims, Catholics, and the more conservative bigoted American Christians all in one setting, but I think it’s as good a place as any to have this kind of moral ethical debate of the applications of religion via satire.
I think a lot of your points on the absence of narrative prompts and absence of lore are well justified and hopefully they get addressed just enough to give more to fight for for people like you, but leave plenty of room for creative expression.
That being said, I’d love to hear your thoughts on the gameplay to really finalize the early access review to trench crusade if you ever feel like it.
LOOOL to be fair, the game isnt really for anyone. Its got garbage rules and trash lore.
Eire is pronounced "eira"
I ran afoul not of the world and the religious aspects. But it doesn't have hope and heart and more so the discord and many of its current social champions... Yeah they can take the game and go to hell.
Well look who came crawwwwwwwwlllling back
Oh are you going to be disappointed xD
@northernexile a picture of artillery witch a day keeps the naysayers at bay XD
"Seems the classy thing to do would be not to call attention to it.."
@NornQueenKya, if I remember correctly... You are/were one of the mods on that TC Discord that banned wargamers for doing what wargamers usually do when the lore is lacking, right?