Hey Marc, once again a great video. I only use a naked portafilter. As I always get an even extraction (also because of the distribution tool you recommended) I have no issues with a messy espresso. I feel like the bottomless portafilter gives me a more honest espresso and is of course way easier to clean. Another good side affect is that I can always have an eye on the extraction.
Hi Jonas, Thanks for the comment. Also thank you for participating and offering excellent advice to others in the comments! I try to respond to every comment personally. As the channel has grown it's become a lot more time consuming so I appreciate your input! Marc
@wholelattelovepage when picking a bottomless portafilter what characteristics are most important. Can you recommend specific portafilters for 58 breville machines….want to use with flair plus58 +2 i will be ordering soon. Cheers.
Also, changed from stock to an IMS basket and screen on my Profitec Pro500 PID - makes everything from extraction to cleaning all that much better! Love your videos and information, keep up the good work!
Marc. I got a bottomless portafilter with triple basket from cream. It doesn’t want to go all the way into my Expobar Office Control. I thought that this was the right portafilter when I bought it. Help. Bruce
Excellent summary. Very helpful. I have found that different coffee roasts expand in the puck different amounts during and after extraction. Some will aggressively expand after extraction and push against the screen if the portafilter is not immediately removed after extraction. In this case a shower screen impression on the coffee puck is not an indication that you are using too much coffee. If I am using a coffee that does this, using an additional mesh screen prevents this from being an issue. Also, as Mark said, if you are using too much coffee and the coffee expands and pushes against the machine screen during extraction, the limited number of holes in the machine's screen can cause chanelling to occur. Using an additional mesh screen guards against this also.
I'm hailing your attempts to change what manufacturers deliver w/ new machine. Espresso industry, on one hand, is willing to adopt new tech - PIDs and flow control have quickly made their way into machines we use, but no one has been brave enough to break habit of supplying spouted PF's when bottomless clearly is a winner for all mentioned reasons plus bottom of PF and spouts is where coffee residue stays after shot and requires regular cleaning with a detergent. As for baskets, these days I mostly drink americano and 20g basket is a minimum I'm willing to use. I can accept if anyone is drinking 7 espressos a day out of 7 dose, though, as long as they aren't forcing me to follow. Diversity is good!
Hi Event 42, Thanks for your comment and support! With the long history of espresso in Italy change can be slow. A few manufacturers of prosumer level machines like Rocket Espresso have started to include bottomless PFs in their high-end products while still including the single spout. Rocket and ECM now include a real tamper with some machines - does anyone use the plastic tampers that come with many machines? I know people are pulling singles in some parts of the world, but as mentioned in the video I don't know anyone in the US who does. Here they are a waste. Including a bottomless instead would be enticing to buyers here. They probably cost less to make and weigh less to ship! We work closely with manufacturers to bring innovations based on feedback from comments here and from customers. A few from the past: Best in class 2 bar steam boiler pressure in ECM Synchronika, Profitec Pro 700 and 600, design concept of the dual boiler Expobar Brewtus with heat exchange in steam boiler feeding the brew boiler, flow control mushroom valve for ECM/Profitec E61 groups, shorter bean hoppers on a variety of grinders to fit under typical overhanging cabinetry and more. We listen and pass comments and requests to manufacturers. We sometimes take things into our own hands. We now offer custom walnut wood accents on many Rocket Espresso machines. As part of the package we include a bottomless PF and triple basket with the wood knobs, group lever and PF handles. Be sure I will pass on your opinions! Thanks, Marc
Marc, we all know terrible truth about single spout PF's - they require a dedicated tamping stand, which costs extra and what's worse - takes up valuable counter space! BL PF can be tamped almost anywhere and for most of people they are easier to hold level than spouted PF's without stand holding PF firmly in place. Shops like WWL easily convince to order from them, offering expertise and knowledge which is plays big role as no machine itself is capable of producing excellent coffee. Pity I'm not in USA!
hi Mark so I have an older Starbucks barista espresso machine I believe it was made be Saeco for Starbucks, I would like to go bottomless with my portafilter, there are so many designs out there I cant seem to find one tat will fit my machine. If you could give me some insight/recommendations I would be very appreciative. Thanks.
Hi Stacy, That machine was designed to work with a pressurized filter basket. In those it's a restriction in the portafilter/filter basket which causes pressure to build. Different setup than machines which use the grind size of the coffee to cause restriction and pressure to build. There may be some aftermarket bottomless portafilters available but the machine was not designed with those in mind so results using a bottomless might not be great. If you find a bottomless that fits you'll need a good espresso grinder as well. Grind size in non-pressurized filter baskets is critical! Also, the machine uses a smaller, non-standard size portafilter. It's probably in the 53-55mm range. Commercial standard is 58mm. Plenty of bottomless 58mm PFs available but thosew will not fit your machine. Best bet is to search for a bottomless that says it will fit the machine you have. My guess is they're not readily available. Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks for the info Mark, It does make a pretty good espresso I guess I can live with the pressurized portafilter. You are definitely right about the grinder I can tell a big difference since I purchased my Breville smart grinder pro.
Hi, thanks for the video, it was very helpfull. But still I have few questions. Could You help? So I use DeLonghi Dedica 680 (I know it's nothing special, entry level machine) and I've decided to uprgade it with nonpressurized basked and new portafilter. 100% of the time I preapare only one coffee at the time, so I'm thinking of buying one spout portafilter (I'm not ready for bottomless one yet). Do You think it is a good idea? Secondly, I prefer strong coffee, but my gf drinks delicate one. Should I buy double and single basket or just make coffee for her in double basket with smaller dose inside?
Hi KR, You are welcome for the video and no worries on the entry-level espresso maker. The Dedica is specifically designed to work with pressurized baskets. Results may vary if you try to use a non-pressurized basket. Machine designed to use pressurized baskets often operate at much higher than normal brew pressure. With that, you'll need to grind finer for a non-pressurized basket so brew water doesn't just blast thru the coffee. It's quite common to use a double spouted portafilter into a single cup so you do not need to purchase a second portafilter. For the girlfriend... If you use a non-pressurized basket and it's the same one you are using for your stronger shots know you will have to change the grind size if using a smaller coffee dose in that basket. Marc
Recipe for triple shot (in, out, time) in ECM bottomless portafilter and basket that came with it from WLL. Thanks. Machine is a Synchronika. Love your videos.
Hey lw, Thanks for the question. This IMS curved bottom 18/22g fits in the stock portafilter: www.wholelattelove.com/products/ims-curved-bottom-precision-portafilter-basket-18-22g But not all basket sizes fit in all portafilters. For instance this 22g rated Barista pro basket does not work in the stock ECM portafilter (it fits in the portafilter but rises to high to allow PF lock in): www.wholelattelove.com/products/baristapro-22g-nanotech-precision-portafilter-basket You might consider a bottomless portafilter like this which comes with a triple shot basket: www.wholelattelove.com/products/ecm-angled-bottomless-portafilter Hope that helps! Marc
Is there a sizeable difference between the various brands of precision baskets? At least one that a new home barista could tell? I see there is VST, IMS, Pullman and probably others I'm not aware of
Hey Toby, There are differences - not sure if a newbie would notice. Some differences: Flow rate through the basket. Depending on number, size and placement of holes in the basket the flow rate will change. Most precisions basket have a higher natural flow rate so grind needs to be a little finer Shape of side wall. Some are vertical while others may have a slope toward the center. Shape of bottom: Some flat, some have a curve Coatings. Some have coatings which make them easier to clean and less likely to get dirty in first place. BaristaPro Nanotech baskets have a quartz coating - so kinda like a non-stick pan.
Hi Marc, greetings from Brazil! I just bought a new espresso machine (Breville Infuser Espresso) and I'm learning a lot from your channel! Thank you for the great videos!! Please keep them coming :-)
Hi LE, Greetings from currently snowy and cold North East US! Congrats on your new machine and thanks for your kind comments. We will keep the videos coming! Marc
Wow this video has a TON of comments and replies! Love your stuff Marc. Thanks for posting all of your vast knowledge out there for all of us getting in to this! My comment is that the single and double outlet portafilters which came with my machine wouldn't fit an 18g basket (height) so I had to buy a naked one to fit my machine. It's a bummer because the handle doesn't match the others, but I'll get over it I suppose.
Love the videos, always a place for me to look for product knowledge and expand it. I am having issues with my IMS 18g basket, getting rain drops effect instead of a single stream of coffee.. Any guidance on what I am doing wrong?
Hey neo, Thanks for the love! Sounds like you're doing bottomless extractions and espresso is not coming together into 1 stream? My guess is grind size issue. I can imagine raindrops if grind is too fine so the extraction is very slow. Flow rate out of the bottom is so slow there's not enough liquid for surface tension to bring the flow together. Can also imagine grind is too course so flow is far too fast and watery. If you have a scale you can weigh the extraction. You're looking for about 36g of espresso in 25-30 seconds from pump on. If you do not have a scale a liquid volume of about 45-65ml including any crema in the liquid volume measurement. If you are getting far more or far less in 25-30 seconds grind size is the issue and you will need to adjust grind finer to slow the extraction or coarser to speed it up. Hope that helps! Marc
Thanks for yet another excellent video! I wanted to know how to match a bottomless portafilter to a specific machine, so that it lines up nicely at 6 o’clock…? (Mine is a pasquini Livia 90s). Thanks!
Hi GR, Thanks for the question. Get a bottomless designed to fit your machine. Getting a perfect clock-in to 6 is more a function of your group gasket being the right size. Filter basket may play a role as well as some have a slightly higher ridge that others. If you're clocking to far it may be time to replace your group gasket or add a shim behind it. If replacing your group gasekt consider a silicone version which last longer and those don't require as hard a clock-in to create a seal. Marc
I have been binge watching your channel hopefully going to pick a machine out and order one. Not sure what one yet maybe the Gaggia Classic or just go all in and so i don't regret it later.
I adam, Thanks for the comment and watching! Good luck on your decision. If in US and you'd like one on one advice from a coffee pro to get into the right machine for your needs give us a call at 585-924-7170. Marc
Hey adj, When you use preground coffee you cannot control the grind size like you would if grinding fresh on your own espresso capable grinder. The pressurized baskets used for pre-ground get around the lack of grind size control as they create the restriction that causes pressure to build up. The espresso from pressurized baskets is good but it's possible to make better espresso using standard non-pressurized baskets and fine tune the grind size to create the proper restriction. The little black insert is to prevent spraying of espresso out of the portafilter spouts from a pressurized basket when used in a Gaggia Classic espresso machine. You do not need to use the black pin if grinding fresh and using non-pressurized filter basket. Marc
As usual, great information. I'd love to see a discussion about the intersection where shower screen meets filter basket. Does upgrading the basket make good sense without upgrading the shower screen? For example, with the Rancilio Silvia M's stock shower screen, is it worthwhile upgrading to an IMS basket? Upgrade both?
Hi s, Upgrading a basket can make a huge difference! Precision baskets usually have a higher flow rate meaning you'll generally use a finer grind which opens up deeper extractions. Especially true in comparison to the stock Silvia basket which is smaller than most and has a fairly low flow rate. If you upgrade the basket be aware the Silvia portafilter is fairly shallow so you'll be limited to an 18g capacity filter basket like this one: www.wholelattelove.com/products/baristapro-18g-nanotech-precision-portafilter-basket Larger triple baskets and IMS competition baskets are too deep to fit in stock Silvia PF. Upgrading a shower screen can help provide a more even flow of brew water onto the coffee. That improves consistency by reducing the chance of channeling. Upgraded shower screens also stay cleaner and are easier to clean when needed. Have a look at your stock screen. It's an actual screen texture with nooks and crannies where coffee oils/particles accumulate. Upgrade screens are smooth, often have non-stick coatings and have openings designed to create even flow of water onto the coffee. Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Hey Marc, can't thank you enough for the detailed response. I've noted your recommendation for the basket. Do you also have a recommendation for upgrading the shower screen? If I'm going to upgrade one, might as well upgrade both. Thx/Rgds from western Canada. S>
Hello, great video, many thx! I`m using a 15-16g dose, sometimes 18g, and i`m looking for a basket for Gaggia Classic Pro. VST baskets are out of my bugdet. can u please recommend one basket to go for? IMS seems like an option but it's pretty confusing with all the sizes and styles...I`m planning to buy a bottomless portafilter to go with it. Also, i got a 58mm tamper. With the stock basket from Gaggia, this one is a little small, should have bought a 58.3-4mm. Should i change the tamper also? Many thanks again!
Hi AD, Thanks for the question. Here's a selection of filter baskets from BIT, Barista Improving Taste: www.wholelattelove.com/collections/portafilters-and-filter-baskets?_=pf&pf_v_brand=Barista%20Improving%20Taste The "BoB" line are lower cost precision baskets designed by former Italian Cup Tasting Champion and manufactured by IMS. For your dose I'd select the 18g BoB filter basket currently $15: www.wholelattelove.com/collections/portafilters-and-filter-baskets/products/barista-improving-taste-bob-filter-basket-18g Here's the Gaggia Bottomless PF which includes a 21g triple shot basket: www.wholelattelove.com/products/gaggia-bottomless-portafilter For a tamper, this BIT tamper is 58.6mm and designed to work in tandem with the BoB filter basket: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bit-espresso-tamper Hope that helps! Marc
I just received my DUOMO The Eight Distribution Tool. Because I have to set the depth, I would like to use the same basket for my all of my portafilters. So if you had to use the same one all the time, would you go with the Baristapro or the IMS curved? Thank you for the video, it was great, as always!
Hey Dean, Well, there's a bit of personal preference involved. I will say I get great results from the Baristapro baskets. IMS curved are a little more finicky in my experience. Marc
Nice video. I don't have any questions, just wanted to say I hadn't come across that rounded basket before. I may need to get my bottomless some curves
Hi Mark, Great explanation. I use a 7 gr single shot VST basket, and a 18gr. Double shot. The double shot is easy to distribute and tamp, but the single shot a bit messy, as the tampers are not the right size for the smaller cake diameter. Any remedidy/suggestions?
Hi K, Not sure I understand... your single shot baskets have a smaller diameter than your doubles? Outside rim diameter should be the same. I understand singles have a taper towards center, but a proper dose in a single should result in the top of cake being same diameter as in a double basket.
Hi Marc, it was a nice video. I have a concern about replacing the original aluminum portafilter of my spresso prima latte machine (a model made by Oster) by a stainless steel naked portafilter and I really appreciate your guide on it. This low cost machine has an aluminum portafilter (as I said before) maybe fixed into an aluminum structure, beyond the plastic case, so, I'm thinking that replacing it with a stainless steel portafilter (made with a harder material) could increase the risk of broken the case of the machine. I know the stainless steel is a far more thermal stable, so it would be better than aluminum to extract the coffee flavors, oils, etc... but considering the hardness differences, maybe it'd not be a good idea to replacing it. I saw naked portafilters made in aluminum, but I'm not sure if these would work well. Maybe that'd be the way I must explore... (Sorry for my terrible english level) 😊
Good Afternoon Marc! I recently just got into the making my own espresso game. We purchased a Delonghi EC702 (after watching this makes me feel I may have chosen wrong), I am wanting to use a bottomless setup, but it seems that my model is one of the small baskets? Could you please help and recommend a Portafilter and basket for us? When I look for measurements it seems to be 51mm IN and 58ID? I think. any help would be appreciated, because I am able to find loads of 58mm items, but not so much 51, so its making me think I am not doing something correctly. Thanks ahead of time, I am a new Subscriber and have been binge watching lots of video's , you are very knowledgeable and thorough keep em coming!
Hey PG, Thanks for the comment and question. So the machine you got is more at the appliance end of espresso makers. Nothing wrong with that if your just learning the ropes. Unfortunately, I'm not aware of bottomless portafilters for your machine. You are right it uses a smaller PF than standard commercial or prosumer level 58mm. That said, there's probably some company out there making a bottomless that'll fit. Honestly it's probably a low demand item. Your machine is designed to use a pressurized filter basket and all bottomless have to use a standard non-pressurized filter basket. Next time around move up to a machine grade product. My favorite premium entry-level machine is the Gaggia Classic Pro. It uses a commercial size 58mm portafilter and comes with both a pressurized and non-pressurized filter baskets. Pressurized baskets are normally used with pre-ground coffee so you can make an okay espresso even if you don't have a grinder. Then add a quality espresso focused burr grinder down the road and you can make exceptional espresso in non-pressurized filter baskets. And the GCP can be upgraded with a bottomless portafilter and more. Hope that helps and thanks for subscribing and watching! Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thank you So much Marc for replying, My Wife had mentioned the exact Machine you mentioned, I pulled the trigger to quick and had purchased the Delonghi, and came across your channel after the fact... you win some you lose some, I know better now ;)
Hi Marc, as usual, another helpful video. Can it be possible that there is a basket from IMS that can fit the Breville Barista Touch portafilter the same as you show at 6:57?
Hi AA, Thanks for the kind comment and question. The Barista Touch uses a 54mm filter basket. To the best of my knowledge IMS does not make a 54mm which fits the Barista Touch. :( Marc
Hey Marc, thanks for all the information. Got a question on bottomless portafilters for you. I've seen them where the bottom edge of the portafilter is almost even with the bottom of the basket and then some where the portafilter is much deeper, with the bottom edge well below the basket. Aside from the former providing easier visual access to the bottom of the basket, does this make any difference? Are there any other considerations that would help determine which bottomless filter is better than another or is there one you recommend in the 51mm size?
Hi EA, You are welcome for the info! More metal in the portafilter = more heat retention. It's rare, but I've run into a few bottomless PF's which limit the size of the filter basket used as the bottom curvature prevents use of triple shot 22g capacity rated baskets. If you want to do triples - common when pulling naked extractions make sure the PF you choose will accommodate the depth of the filter basket. Unfortunately I have no recommendations for 51mm. Overwhelming majority are made for standard 58mm commercial size with a few available for 54mm. Marc
Hi Marc I really appreciate your channel. I’m learning so much. I have a Starbucks Barista by Saeco. Can you please recommend a naked portafilter and double shot basket? Thanks
Hi v, Thanks for the question. I'm sorry I do not have a good recommendation. The product you have uses a pressurized portafilter. It's not designed to work with standard non-pressurized portafilter/filter baskets. I'm sure someone has hacked it or maybe a third party vendor makes one but IMO it will not work well. Here's a video on difference between pressurized appliance grade products and standard non-pressurized espresso machines: th-cam.com/video/v-9qJbmCgCQ/w-d-xo.html Marc
That’s a huge collection Marc! Why do the prosumer machines come with ridged baskets? Surely their R&D have proved these are the best? Penny for your thoughts.
Hi sc74, In some baskets ridges are reference for max fill. Things sometimes change slowly so years ago a company or two was making filter baskets and that's the way they were made. I was introduced to Baristapro baskets a few years ago by an Italian Cup Tasting champion who worked with the company to develop higher end basket resulting in Baristapro. Marc
VST baskets have been around the longest; I think they were the first "precision" baskets to hit the market. From my experiences they tend to be far less forgiving of poor technique than even a BaristaPro/IMS basket. VST baskets have holes that extend further to the perimeter, which means that any slight imperfections in distribution/tamping will show up. Notice how the BaristaPro basket actually has wider margin between the edges and the perforations. The Competition basket seems to function similarly to a convex tamper, in that it promotes that "single stream" more easily, but it's very slightly slightly altering the density distribution of the coffee grounds.
very useful video! I think this is the very first one video talking about the portafilters and the filter baskets. I have one question. I am focusing on pulling an italian style espresso with 14g in a filter basket. However, it is hard to pull a espresso with rich of crema and it always looked under-extraction even if I try the grinder from coarse to fine. ( My setup: Lelit Bianca + Ceado E37S and Illy classico blend coffee bean ). Does anyone know what kind of filter basket italian use regularly to pull coffee in a caffe bar ?
Hi IC, Thanks for the comment and question. It's likely the filter basket which came with your machine is very similar to that used at bar in Italy. Lack of crema from an Italian style bean blend is usually due to improper grind size and/or the coffee. Small changes in grind will have a big affect! Illy Classico is 100% Arabica. Arabica coffees are trickier crema producers usually requiring a level of freshness and good technique to get the crema. If crema is what you desire you might try an Italian blend with some Robusta beans in the mix like Lavazza Super Crema: www.wholelattelove.com/products/lavazza-super-crema-whole-bean-espresso-coffee or one of my favorites (and used in this video) Maromas Orphea: www.wholelattelove.com/products/maromas-orphea-whole-bean-espresso Perhaps you've done this already but if not I'd work at dialing in the grind size. Honestly I'd also go for a larger coffee dose. Here's a video covering dialing in grind and other tips for easy espresso success: th-cam.com/video/D6lLYgx1Ow4/w-d-xo.html Marc
hi Marc, great video thanks! question for you - i purchased the BZ group Bezzerra bottomless filter. i was using the stock basket that came with the portafilter included with the BZ13, however it was too small to use a filter screen (ie/the screen kept bending due to the screw in the grouphead). So i went ahead an purchased the IMS big bang precision filter 58mm 22-24g. the problem with this one was the coffee was touching the rim at the bottom of the portafilter befroe it could work its way to the centre of the basket - hence causing spillage everytime. I think maybe too deep of a basket at 27.5? Anyways - was hoping you could suggest a good basket that i could use with my BZ group Bezzerra bottomless portafilter, whereby i can pull a double shot (19g ish) and also use a puck screen and still have enough room to avoid denting. Thanks Marc!
Hey Sonny, Unfortunately I do not have an IMS Big Bang 27.5 to play with at the moment. If I understand, your extraction is not filling into the center of the basket? If that's the case sounds like brew water is finding easier path around outside edge of basket. Have you tried modifying puck prep using WDT, leveler, modifying tamp pressure, changing grind size or similar? If BZ13 had a pre-infusion I'd go there as it swells coffee and may help "seal" the edge a bit. My other thought is convex head tamper for a slightly thinner puck profile in center. Something like this: www.wholelattelove.com/products/ecm-convex-tamper Not sure that will do it but might help. 26mm basket might be a squeeze with 19g plus the screen. Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage thanks for speedy reply! Yes - i have tried everything, including WDT, light tamp, heavy tamp, double tamp etc etc...i think the issue is the way the bezzera bottomless (bz) is designed - there is a bit of a rim at the bottom. I think the 27.5 is too tall as the edges don't quite touch the rim, however when coffee starts to come out of the edge it touches the rim, hence not making its way to the centre and then spilling out. At any rate - i found DEX MHW-3Bomber deep extraction 22g basket which is 27mm height (vs the 27.5 IMS big bang). I'm hoping it solves the problem (given it gives me an extra .5mm) - it should arrive sometime next week..fingers crossed. thanks again - and i'm still loving the bezzera machine!
As a rookie I'm really struggling with my new gaggia classic pro prestige bought in your store 😅 I also got a eureka mignon grinder. Tried 3 different coffees.. tried all kinds of coffee grinds and it's always either going through too easily and very watery and tasteless or doesn't even go through and takes a minute to fill a small espresso cup and is almost cold. I know i'll eventually figure things out but i'm so far from a silky espresso. Hope it has nothing to do with the gaggia. Wondering if could be that basket included in the prestige package lol Is this normal I struggle this hard as a newbie with this setup?
Hi Simon, I'm sure you'll get the hang of it. Single most important thing is getting the grind size right. Adjusting as needed while keeping all other variables consistent. Small changes in grind size can make a big difference. As you make small adjustments to grind size be sure and use the same weight of coffee in the portafilter. Other best practices include: Making sure your machine is fully warmed up. Turn it on at least 10 minutes before use and keep the portafilter in the group when not in use so it warms up too. Be consistent with tamping pressure and make sure you tamp level. Here's a video covering the basics of dialing-in grind size which may help: th-cam.com/video/jOY7D02n4Cw/w-d-xo.html Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage thanks for your reply. Matter of fact I think I found my issue after testing out several yields and seems I prefer a ristretto to a longer shot and since I had no idea of the yield and was only using duration to gauge, I thought all my shots were watery. I love my espresso acidic, "thicc" and sweet so I guess that's the italian way?!
Hi Mark, may I know the measurements of the profitec two-way filter holder? I would like to buy a dosing funnel and I am undecided between 58 or 58.5. Thank you as always!
Hi f, For a dosing funnel you should be fine with either the 58 or 58.5mm. Profitec filter baskets (like most all those labeled as 58mm) are actually slightly larger than 58.5mm. Lately, more manufacturers of accessories are using actual measurements for tampers, levelers, etc. but 58 and 58.5 are almost always interchangeable. Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Hi, thank you, I purchased the Normcore funnel dispenser, reading the comments it adapts perfectly to ECM and Profitec, the magnets attach perfectly
Hi Marc and thanks for your video! I'm an absolute beginner and want to buy my first espresso machine. Can't decide between the Solis Barista Gran Gusto and the Gaggia Classic Pro. But my question is... you have mentioned the IMS Baristapro Nanotech and afterwards for naked portafilters the IMS competition. Where the difference or how should I use these ones? Couldn't I use the Baristapro with a naked portafilter? Sorry for the newbie questions :)
Hi Stefan, You are welcome for the video. Yes you can use any of the filter baskets in naked portafilters. I suggest starting with the Baristapro and getting your technique down before trying a competition basket which are less forgiving of technique problems. Marc
I have an older over 10 years old Silvia Rancilio machine. Want to purchase my very first bottomless portafilter. My question is should I be purchasing a Rancilio bottomless portafilter or would another brand of equal price do the trick? thanks.
Hi Sue, This is the one you want: www.wholelattelove.com/products/rancilio-bottomless-portafilter The lock in tabs on Rancilio PFs are a little different in design than those on other manufacturer PFs and good news, the Rancilio is less expensive than most! Bad news, currently out of stock. Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thank you for replying. Is this a Canadian website. I'm wondering how much is the Rancilio bottomles portafilter in Canadian $. And is it the 58mm that I need? Again my machine is over 10 years old. And when can you expect it to be back in stock? thanks so much!
@@Wholelattelovepage One more thing, watching this video you are using a small metal thing to pop out the basket. Is that something you sell in the store?
Hi Thomas, I don't have much experience with severely under filled baskets. But if using a basket rated to 22g capacity loading with 17g is probably fine. Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage thanks for answering his question. I just received my naked portafilter and it has a 21gram basket that I want to put 18 grams in. Hoping to not have soupy pucks.
@@Wholelattelovepage thanks! They don't😭 and cannot find any other company that can make one for 54mm size. I am going to see if I can get a baristapro basket but have to figure out the measurements.
@@JustNel what I said was pretty confusing my bad but for me it is angled just enough that when I set the whole portafillter on a table the basket is level
Hi H, thanks for the comment. It's possible but guessing it would not be original equipment. I'd inquire with our Tech Support team here: support.wholelattelove.com/hc/en-us Marc
Marc I havee a profitec 700 Pro. I also have all 3 Porto filters and baskets. I even have there ims competition basket. I have a couple of questions 1)can you use and should you use the ims 18/22gram filter basket in you double group Porto filter or is it just for the bottomless Porto filter. 2)how many grams should my double shot in standard basket yeld liquid wise in your clear measuring cup with oz and mil.written on the side I purchased from you yeld. Figuring on 17 grams of espresso
Fantastic ! Thank you!! I do have 2 questions..of i may 1- how do you know if there is enough coffee in the basket ? 2- I noticed that my best espresso shot was when the stream was wider, coming out of my bottomless.. But I don't know how I did that and don't know how to do it again.. Thanks !!
Hi Eric, You're welcome! 1. Many baskets have a ridge line on the side wall of the basket which indicates a normal fill level after the coffee is compressed/tamped. You can use a little less or more with no problem. Just try to be consistent with the amount you use. If you see an impression of the shower screen in the coffee puck after an extraction you used too much coffee. 2. Bottomless shots are tricky but an excellent tool for improving your technique. Producing a good bottomless shot requires control of variables... being consistent with each from shot to shot. So get the grind size right, use the same coffee dose, good distribution in filter basket, level tamp with same pressure, controlling brew temperature etc. Marc
Hi HC, Most likely not. Especially if you're using a darker roast coffee which is less dense than lighter roast and will occupy more space in the basket. Too much coffee in a filter basket is usually more of a problem than being a couple grams under rated capacity. Marc
Great video! Very interesting point @4:42 about seeing the shower screen indent on the puck. I use a Breville Barista Express Espresso machine at home and have seen this imprint multiple times, I always use 18g with the double basket. how many grams of coffee do you suggest for someone using this machine? Thanks! Edit: The Breville Barista Express uses 54mm portafilters
Hi Lauren, Thanks for the comment and question! It's been awhile since I've used a Breville with 54mm baskets like the Barista Express. My guess is capacity depending on coffee used may be less than 18g. If seeing imprint of shower screen I would back off on dose weight until you no longer see an imprint. Marc
Hi Marc, Loved the video as always! I was wondering if you could help me figure out why do single shot baskets not make a good espresso at all than a double shot basket, despite all the parameters being taken as same (i.e grind size, time, proportion of dosage)? Is it because of the too much taper ?
Hi IS, Thanks for the kind comment. Singles are more difficult to use as they magnify any problems. So if you get a channel thru the coffee puck it's impact will be greater. One could argue the taper in a single basket changes an extraction at the base level. Marc
Somehow I'm still looking for the verb in this YT title; How to.... choose? Upgrade? Shop for? Something? Haha, but great video and sharp glasses Marc.
thanx for a great video, my machine has the 51mm, which can only take 15grams max as I undrstnd it, is there a way or gadget to help me make 17 grams shots on my machine.? I hope u, or any of ur respected followers, reply and help me. truly need the help, thanx 🙏🙏🙏😊
Liked the video. Interesting though, no mention in the video even of the existence of 51 mm or 49 mm baskets, which are the most commonly used pf sizes in most lever espresso machines - and which, though "niche" machines, are decidedly not low-end appliance machines! (In fact, I bought both of my Gaggia Factory 106 lever machines from you in 2007 or 2008 - and both, with their 51mm baskets, are still going strong!) I almost exclusively use naked PFs in my two machines, ever since having two extra PFs "cut" just a few years after purchasing the machines. I don't think I've used the stock dual spout PFs more than a handful of times since then. I recently "retired" one of the "cut" naked PFs and replaced it with a "straight wall" naked PF so that I could experiment with a triple basket, as the triple baskets don't fit into "cut" PFs due to the slightly too small "cutout" hole. Can't say I've yet noticed any real improvement in the cup when using the triple basket, but I'm still experimenting with it - and enjoying the experimentation...
Hey Richard, Sorry I did not mention. And thank you for your patronage! As you're well aware 58mm is most common in commercial style non-lever machines. A few high-end machines like Dalla Corte use 54mm baskets. And yes, levers are a bit niche so I did not get into those. But they are most definitely not appliance grade! Those smaller lightweight aluminum baskets with lower capacity are the norm on the appliance grade machines and they are almost always pressurized to allow for use of subpar grind or pre-ground coffee. Marc
I’m buying an ariete moderna espresso machine and the filter that comes with it isn’t naked, my question is that are the filters standardized across all the machines? So that i can get any naked portafilter so what matters is only to get the same size 58 as the one that comes with the machine
Hi G, Thanks for the question. No portafilters are not standard across machines. Some work with other brands some do not. I'm not familiar with the machine you reference. Took a look at a photo of one and it appears to use a somewhat non-standard type of portfilter.
@@Wholelattelovepage thanks, I ended up buying a non pressurized filter basket from VST that fitted nicely and then cut the portafilter at a turn shop. It worked out perfectly !😄
How can we upgrade our machine to better parts. How do we know what will fit. I have an esspresione 1040. Happy with the coffee so far but I think I can do better
Hi Marc. I purchased a brand new profitec bottomless which came with a triple basket. The basket seems to deep? When I tamp it flat it, the basket slightly pops up…. I’m using a corner bench tank matt
Hi fgk, When the triples get big they sometimes extend beyond the bottom. Last I knew our triples that come with do not. Solution is a tamp station like this that holds the PF by the ears or smaller triple: www.wholelattelove.com/products/ecm-tamper-station
thank you so much for the great review I visited the website whole latte and ims webbsite for the shower screen and baskets. But got lost and didn't know what to purchase. What would you recommend to buy for my rancilio silva pro x ? (looking for sahower screen with triple and double shots and thank you so much
Hey Mark! Thanks for the video. A couple of months ago I upgraded my basket to a 20gr barista pro with nano tech. I also changed the group head components (gasket, shower screen and brass holder) on my Gaggia classic pro. I'm getting beautiful shots indeed, however, I did notice that the puck is slightly more wet compared to when I use the basket that the Gaggia came with. What do you think this is due to?
Hi Andrea, Nice performance upgrades! The IMS Nanotech shower screen in the Classic flows nice compared to stock: www.wholelattelove.com/products/ims-nanotech-gaggia-classic-shower-screen I wonder if larger coffee dose or more clearance between puck and shower screen might be resulting in a slightly wetter puck. Also, are you backflushing with something like Cafiza on a regular basis? Over time coffee gunk and oils build up in the solenoid release plumbing and can restrict water flow off the puck. Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage interesting take - I do backflush every couple of weeks with the cafiza, however, I did not take into account the fact that the basket is bigger and thus I may need to up the dose slightly. I've been brewing with 18g pretty much since I got the Gaggia. I'll start using 19g as a test. Will report back with my findings. Thanks, Marc!
Hi Marc, I have an ECM Syncronika that I purchased from you and just purchased a bottomless portafilter. Now I would like to upgrade the basket from the stock ECM basket. With the stock basket and portafilter I have been grinding 20 grams of coffee. What basket and size do you recommend? Thank you. Leor
Hola Marc, Hope your Thanksgiving was gooder than good. (that noise you just heard was my English teacher rolling over in her grave) Your Gaggia Classic is a must for home use, had ours now for many moons and me wife and I love it. However, just ran into one little issue which I'm sure is an "operator" issue - likely connected to a too much vino the night before - Doesn't matter what cup I use its tiny crema and espresso coming out, not like before. I put an MT (empty) basket in the holder and water comes out fine. Never had an issue like this as I can remember but I'm officially a Viejo so need ideas how to fix? Mucho thanks mon.
Hello Chef B, Thanks for the report on your Gaggia Classic! If running fine empty is there any chance your grind is somehow finer? Or maybe you had a little extra coffee to counteract the wine😉? Either of those would slow down the extraction.
@@Wholelattelovepage ...Reconsidering it all, me thinks maybe the grind size iz off. I asked me wife's opinion and she thought my grind size has been off for a long time. ( She's trying to be funny again)
Fantastic ! Really pertinent Information..thank you !!! Is there a machine that comes with a maximum equipment what is suggested and is it compatible with the baskets that you recommend?
Hi Eric, All of our Rocket Espresso machines with custom walnut wood accents ship with a bottomless portafilter and a triple shot 22g Baritapro Nanotech filter basket in addition to single and double spout portafilters and matching filter baskets. Like this Rocket R58: www.wholelattelove.com/products/rocket-espresso-r58-with-wood-accents Also available on the Appartamento, Type V and Evo R Rocket machines. Marc
Hello Marc, Good video. I have a Breville Bambino Plus and I would like to know what bottomless basket and portafilter do you recommend. Thank you, Alex
Hi AH, Thanks for the question. As far as I know there is no recommended bottomless PF for the Bambino. It's designed to work with a pressurized filter basket and bottomless PFs are not pressurized. Marc
All you ycc all forget to tell how to measure the portafilter if I should want to buy a new. Is it inside or outside? Is it with or without basket if it's inside?
Hi MM, Measuring may not be the best way to decide on a new portafilter. The most common size and commercial standard is 58mm which refers to the internal dimension of the filter basket which sits in the portafilter. With the filter basket removed a portafilter might have an internal dimension of ~62-63mm but varies by manufacturer. Another issue not all 58mm (or other size) portafilters work in all 58mm espresso machine group heads. The lock in tabs on edge of portafilter may be different position or size. It's best to match a replacement PF based on your machine make/model. Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage When my machine is a cheap generic nobrand it's hard to upgrade when there is nothing to go by. A better filter would go a long way till I can buy a real machine so for now that is my way. The filter that comes with it is a pressure filter. I would like to try a non but the portafilter doesn't allow for this as it is cast with a bottom bit.
Thanks for the video! Love the great content. What is the stock basket size for the Rocket Appartamento double portafilter? What size basket will the portafilter accomodate? 18g? 20g? Thanks!
Hi PO, Thanks for the kind comment and question. Appartamento comes stock with a single and double basket. Double capacity is ~18g. Portafilter can accommodate up to 22g Baristapro filter basket with a height of 28mm. This one: www.wholelattelove.com/products/baristapro-22g-nanotech-precision-portafilter-basket Hope that helps! Marc
Hi Jn, Thanks for the comment and question. Most likely. If you see an impression of the shower screen in the puck after an extraction reduce the dose next time. Marc
Hello! Can you help me out ? i am very new to this espresso world and i bought a very cheap home machine , philco 15 bar which came with a pressurised basket - but it doesn't "locks" in the portafilter, if i put the basket in the portafilter and turn it upside down, it falls... and i noticed that more professional portafilters has this wire inside... i want to know how does is work, how to put this wire in and out , so i could adapt my portafilter over here somehow... can you give me some explanation about this ?
I purchased a well reviewed bottomless portafilter that is compatible with my entry level DeLonghi Dedica. I did this because I bought a new espresso grinder and the original porta filter that came with the DeLonghi was too high to fit into the grinder. Anyway the issue I have now is that the espresso that comes out is just a huge mess. Very strong but also very watery, and there is no foam whatsoever. What am I doing wrong?
Hi A, Thanks for the question. A few things... Bottomless poratfilters quickly reveal any issues with the preparation of ground coffee in the filter basket. If grind is too coarse, clumpy from the grinder, distributed and/or tamped unevenly you may get spurts as brew water finds channels of lower resistance in the coffee puck. Another issue may be the machine. Machines like the Dedica were designed to use the stock pressurized filter basket. That type of basket has a restriction built in which causes pressure to build up making grind size and coffee puck prep less critical to success. These entry-level machines often operate at higher pressure than machines which use standard non-pressurized filter baskets. The higher pressure helps push the espresso through the small restriction. Running at higher pressure the coffee puck is more likely to have channeling when you use the bottomless portafilter which has a non pressurized filter basket. Based on your description, my guess is your grind is too coarse. Grind size is critical when brewing in non-pressurized filter baskets. Here's a video showing how to dial in grind size: th-cam.com/video/unHHToGjshI/w-d-xo.html Hope that helps! Marc
Hey Mark, great video! I have the Delonghi Espresso Icona Eco 311.W and I want to make the best coffee I can from that machine since I can't buy a new one! I bought a grinder and a tamper, coffee beans and now I am looking to replace the basket but I can't figure out what basket to buy for that machine.
Thanks Marc for all these videos and patience to answer every question. Do you need tamper station to level and tamp expresso with bottomless portafilter? There no spouts at the bottom of portafilter to sit when tamping esp. if one uses newer nano baskets (they are curved at bottom)? Does one damages basket over time. I am assuming curved shape will be flat over time?
Hi Acorn, You are welcome... I love answering the questions and helping others! You do not have to have a tamping station for bottomless PFs. I often just put the circular basket containing portion on the edge of a counter with the handle hanging off then level and tamp away! You can use a tamping station if desired, but not required IMO. Use a rubber mat or similar to protect counter from repetitive use damage if needed. The Baristapro NT baskets are flat bottom. Depending on size used and specific portafilter most do not extend beyond the bottom edge of the PF. We do have (and I use occasionally) IMS Competition baskets with curved bottoms like this one: www.wholelattelove.com/products/ims-curved-bottom-precision-portafilter-basket-18-22g With some PFs the bottom of the basket may extend slightly beyond the bottom edge but it's relatively rare. Hope that helps! Marc
Hey Marc, amazing easy information, I own a Smeg ecf01 espresso coffee machine, and I think it haves 51mm filter, do you know is there is a bottomless portafilter and non-pressurized filter? Thanks for the help!
Hi JR, Thanks for the kind comment. I am not aware of a bottomless for that machine. One might exist but my guess it would be made be 3rd party manufacturer as I'm fairly certain that machine was designed for pressurized basket only. Marc
Hi Joseph, This bottomless PF works with the hobby: www.wholelattelove.com/collections/bezzera/products/bezzera-logo-bottomless-portafilter The Hobby uses a BZ style group. Marc
I would like to learn to do singles with the nanotech. I have one but the Asso distribution/tamping tool doesn't work with it. Otherwise my go-to is the nano 20g basket. I normally dose it to 19.2-19.5 grams of coffee.
Hi SS, I don't do singles but the Baristapro single baskets are much nicer than most stock single baskets as the dont have the heavy internal ridge. Marc
I have a kinda dumb question. I swap baskets a lot but find myself effing around with a knife often. I don’t want to scratch my stuff though. Is there a method or a tool to swap them baskets easily? (I know they tend to loosen up iver the years but I don’t feel like waiting)
Hi P, Yes there is a tool! Here's the portafilter basket ejector tool: www.wholelattelove.com/products/portafilter-basket-ejector Another common method is to use the edge of basket not in the PF to lever out the one that's in it. Just turn the free one upside down and lever under the lip near the lock in tab of the PF. Not as elegant as the tool but does work. Marc
Hi I wanted to know if the filter that I bought could be of bad quality because it doesn’t give a creamy extraction like the one I lost! What are your thoughts?
Hi GC, I don't know which filter basket you have so it's hard to offer an opinion. Filter baskets have differing number of holes, shapes, flow rates, coffee capacities, etc. These variables can affect espresso flavor and other qualities. If using the same coffee in different basket and the extraction has less crema my guess it has more to do with your grind size needing adjustment than the filter basket. Marc
Hi Mark, Love your videos, Im from India and just bought a Delonghi 685, wanted to know if there is any option for a bottomless basket for this machine? Please help me out. Thank you.
Hi Gagan, Thanks for the comment and question. There are no bottomless filter baskets I'm aware of. I'm guessing someone has modified/hacked one. Here's the thing... The Delonghi is designed to work with a pressurized filter basket and my guess is results will be less than optimal if trying to brew through a non-pressurized filter basket. Even if it did kinda work one would need a rather expensive grinder - probably higher cost than the machine to get reasonable results. Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thank you, Marc; really want to continue brewing, was looking into getting a Baratza Sette anyways. Hope that would be enough to brew some decent coffee in the Delonghi 685? Also, the problem is that in India there not many options for a decent machine, either it is not available or more than twice the original price, Delonghi is the only official seller here... Thank you once again and keep up the awesome work!! Cheers!!
Hi Marc - Great stuff as always. I bought the appartamento + the jack leveler from you guys. Noticing channeling. At least 3-5 holds. Any suggestions? What is the stock basket size on appatamento? I am using 17g/34g. Any suggestions to improve my extraction. Since I have the jack leverler, i dont tamp. Thanks
Hi TF, Thanks for the comment, question and your patronage! Stock double basket runs 16-18g capacity depending on coffee type. Towards the higher end for lighter roast specialty coffees and lower for darker roast blends. If you see any impression of the shower screen in the puck after an extraction you've exceeded the basket capacity. If not already doing so be sure and run a short cooling flush prior to an extraction to remove over-heated brew water. Without a cooling flush, in most cases the coffee will be hit by an initial shot of steam and over-heated water which increases chance of channeling. With the Jack set the depth as deep as possible without the depth adjustment slipping when spinning. Hope that helps! Marc
Hey Marc,
once again a great video. I only use a naked portafilter. As I always get an even extraction (also because of the distribution tool you recommended) I have no issues with a messy espresso. I feel like the bottomless portafilter gives me a more honest espresso and is of course way easier to clean. Another good side affect is that I can always have an eye on the extraction.
Hi Jonas, Thanks for the comment. Also thank you for participating and offering excellent advice to others in the comments! I try to respond to every comment personally. As the channel has grown it's become a lot more time consuming so I appreciate your input!
Marc
@wholelattelovepage when picking a bottomless portafilter what characteristics are most important. Can you recommend specific portafilters for 58 breville machines….want to use with flair plus58 +2 i will be ordering soon. Cheers.
Or if these wont be compatible one for each…you advice is appreciated.
Moving to a bottomless was the best thing I did and I learnt a lot! It’s all I use now!
Hi Daniel, Thanks for the comment - also 1st! Bottomless PF's help a lot!
Marc
Also, changed from stock to an IMS basket and screen on my Profitec Pro500 PID - makes everything from extraction to cleaning all that much better! Love your videos and information, keep up the good work!
Marc. I got a bottomless portafilter with triple basket from cream. It doesn’t want to go all the way into my Expobar Office Control. I thought that this was the right portafilter when I bought it. Help. Bruce
Daniel Wilson Will keep it up 😂 The shower screen is amazing! Smooth, smooth flow.
Marc
@@wa8dpv Which triple basket make/model do you have?
Marc
You shoved a ton of information in such a short video. Well done.
Hey pm, Thanks for the comment!
Marc
The bottomless portafilter was one of my best byes. Not using it anymore, but I have learned a lot through it.
Hi e, Thanks for sharing your experience def a good learning tool!
Marc
Using it again. Can't resist the temptation of watching the process of extrusion.-)
What size porta filter can I use with my ultima cosa ?
Excellent summary. Very helpful.
I have found that different coffee roasts expand in the puck different amounts during and after extraction. Some will aggressively expand after extraction and push against the screen if the portafilter is not immediately removed after extraction. In this case a shower screen impression on the coffee puck is not an indication that you are using too much coffee. If I am using a coffee that does this, using an additional mesh screen prevents this from being an issue. Also, as Mark said, if you are using too much coffee and the coffee expands and pushes against the machine screen during extraction, the limited number of holes in the machine's screen can cause chanelling to occur. Using an additional mesh screen guards against this also.
Great video cheers from London England 👍😎🏴🇬🇧
Hi A, Thanks for the comment!
Marc
Good hints. I'll have to look into the bottomless portafilters. Until this viewing I'd never heard of them.
Hi Richard, Thanks for the comment!
Marc
I'm hailing your attempts to change what manufacturers deliver w/ new machine. Espresso industry, on one hand, is willing to adopt new tech - PIDs and flow control have quickly made their way into machines we use, but no one has been brave enough to break habit of supplying spouted PF's when bottomless clearly is a winner for all mentioned reasons plus bottom of PF and spouts is where coffee residue stays after shot and requires regular cleaning with a detergent.
As for baskets, these days I mostly drink americano and 20g basket is a minimum I'm willing to use. I can accept if anyone is drinking 7 espressos a day out of 7 dose, though, as long as they aren't forcing me to follow. Diversity is good!
Hi Event 42, Thanks for your comment and support! With the long history of espresso in Italy change can be slow. A few manufacturers of prosumer level machines like Rocket Espresso have started to include bottomless PFs in their high-end products while still including the single spout. Rocket and ECM now include a real tamper with some machines - does anyone use the plastic tampers that come with many machines? I know people are pulling singles in some parts of the world, but as mentioned in the video I don't know anyone in the US who does. Here they are a waste. Including a bottomless instead would be enticing to buyers here. They probably cost less to make and weigh less to ship!
We work closely with manufacturers to bring innovations based on feedback from comments here and from customers. A few from the past: Best in class 2 bar steam boiler pressure in ECM Synchronika, Profitec Pro 700 and 600, design concept of the dual boiler Expobar Brewtus with heat exchange in steam boiler feeding the brew boiler, flow control mushroom valve for ECM/Profitec E61 groups, shorter bean hoppers on a variety of grinders to fit under typical overhanging cabinetry and more.
We listen and pass comments and requests to manufacturers. We sometimes take things into our own hands. We now offer custom walnut wood accents on many Rocket Espresso machines. As part of the package we include a bottomless PF and triple basket with the wood knobs, group lever and PF handles.
Be sure I will pass on your opinions!
Thanks,
Marc
Marc, we all know terrible truth about single spout PF's - they require a dedicated tamping stand, which costs extra and what's worse - takes up valuable counter space! BL PF can be tamped almost anywhere and for most of people they are easier to hold level than spouted PF's without stand holding PF firmly in place.
Shops like WWL easily convince to order from them, offering expertise and knowledge which is plays big role as no machine itself is capable of producing excellent coffee. Pity I'm not in USA!
Wow so much fantastic info! Every time I watch one of these amazing videos my coffee making improves. Thank you!! xx
Hi AT, You are welcome and thank you for the kind comment!
Marc
I start about 3 years ago with the bottomless portaflters and that's the way I really learn my tamping pressure, nice vidéo, thanks
Hi Normand, You are welcome and thank you for the comment! I prefer those sexy naked extractions too!
Marc
Just received my bottomless and it is amazing.
Hi n, So fun!
Marc
hi Mark so I have an older Starbucks barista espresso machine I believe it was made be Saeco for Starbucks, I would like to go bottomless with my portafilter, there are so many designs out there I cant seem to find one tat will fit my machine. If you could give me some insight/recommendations I would be very appreciative. Thanks.
Hi Stacy, That machine was designed to work with a pressurized filter basket. In those it's a restriction in the portafilter/filter basket which causes pressure to build. Different setup than machines which use the grind size of the coffee to cause restriction and pressure to build. There may be some aftermarket bottomless portafilters available but the machine was not designed with those in mind so results using a bottomless might not be great. If you find a bottomless that fits you'll need a good espresso grinder as well. Grind size in non-pressurized filter baskets is critical! Also, the machine uses a smaller, non-standard size portafilter. It's probably in the 53-55mm range. Commercial standard is 58mm. Plenty of bottomless 58mm PFs available but thosew will not fit your machine. Best bet is to search for a bottomless that says it will fit the machine you have. My guess is they're not readily available.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks for the info Mark, It does make a pretty good espresso I guess I can live with the pressurized portafilter. You are definitely right about the grinder I can tell a big difference since I purchased my Breville smart grinder pro.
Hi, thanks for the video, it was very helpfull. But still I have few questions. Could You help?
So I use DeLonghi Dedica 680 (I know it's nothing special, entry level machine) and I've decided to uprgade it with nonpressurized basked and new portafilter. 100% of the time I preapare only one coffee at the time, so I'm thinking of buying one spout portafilter (I'm not ready for bottomless one yet). Do You think it is a good idea?
Secondly, I prefer strong coffee, but my gf drinks delicate one. Should I buy double and single basket or just make coffee for her in double basket with smaller dose inside?
Hi KR, You are welcome for the video and no worries on the entry-level espresso maker. The Dedica is specifically designed to work with pressurized baskets. Results may vary if you try to use a non-pressurized basket. Machine designed to use pressurized baskets often operate at much higher than normal brew pressure. With that, you'll need to grind finer for a non-pressurized basket so brew water doesn't just blast thru the coffee.
It's quite common to use a double spouted portafilter into a single cup so you do not need to purchase a second portafilter.
For the girlfriend... If you use a non-pressurized basket and it's the same one you are using for your stronger shots know you will have to change the grind size if using a smaller coffee dose in that basket.
Marc
Hello Marc, appreciate the answer and advice. Now I'm a little bit closer to decison what to do, to improve my coffee shots. Thanks very much :)
The videos have gotten next level. Good work team
Hi Jay, Thanks for the comment - it's appreciated!
Marc
I love this guy. Enthusiasm and expertise.
Hi TLV, Thanks a whole latte for your comment!
That guy - Marc
Recipe for triple shot (in, out, time) in ECM bottomless portafilter and basket that came with it from WLL. Thanks. Machine is a Synchronika. Love your videos.
Hey c, thanks for the comment!
Marc
Your videos are awesome Mark!
Hey 1972, Thanks a whole latte for the comment!
Marc
I recently got the ECM Classika PID would a triple basket fit in the stock portafilter, do all basket sizes work in the standard portafilters?
Hey lw, Thanks for the question. This IMS curved bottom 18/22g fits in the stock portafilter: www.wholelattelove.com/products/ims-curved-bottom-precision-portafilter-basket-18-22g
But not all basket sizes fit in all portafilters. For instance this 22g rated Barista pro basket does not work in the stock ECM portafilter (it fits in the portafilter but rises to high to allow PF lock in): www.wholelattelove.com/products/baristapro-22g-nanotech-precision-portafilter-basket
You might consider a bottomless portafilter like this which comes with a triple shot basket: www.wholelattelove.com/products/ecm-angled-bottomless-portafilter
Hope that helps!
Marc
wow - well prepared guy! Good video!
Thanks! 👍
Marc
Is there a sizeable difference between the various brands of precision baskets? At least one that a new home barista could tell? I see there is VST, IMS, Pullman and probably others I'm not aware of
Hey Toby, There are differences - not sure if a newbie would notice.
Some differences:
Flow rate through the basket. Depending on number, size and placement of holes in the basket the flow rate will change. Most precisions basket have a higher natural flow rate so grind needs to be a little finer
Shape of side wall. Some are vertical while others may have a slope toward the center.
Shape of bottom: Some flat, some have a curve
Coatings. Some have coatings which make them easier to clean and less likely to get dirty in first place. BaristaPro Nanotech baskets have a quartz coating - so kinda like a non-stick pan.
this is literally so helpful!!!!! i just bought a espresso machine today!
Hey BV, Thanks for the comment!
Marc
Hi Marc, greetings from Brazil!
I just bought a new espresso machine (Breville Infuser Espresso) and I'm learning a lot from your channel! Thank you for the great videos!! Please keep them coming :-)
Hi LE, Greetings from currently snowy and cold North East US! Congrats on your new machine and thanks for your kind comments. We will keep the videos coming!
Marc
Wow this video has a TON of comments and replies! Love your stuff Marc. Thanks for posting all of your vast knowledge out there for all of us getting in to this! My comment is that the single and double outlet portafilters which came with my machine wouldn't fit an 18g basket (height) so I had to buy a naked one to fit my machine. It's a bummer because the handle doesn't match the others, but I'll get over it I suppose.
Love the videos, always a place for me to look for product knowledge and expand it.
I am having issues with my IMS 18g basket, getting rain drops effect instead of a single stream of coffee.. Any guidance on what I am doing wrong?
Hey neo, Thanks for the love! Sounds like you're doing bottomless extractions and espresso is not coming together into 1 stream? My guess is grind size issue. I can imagine raindrops if grind is too fine so the extraction is very slow. Flow rate out of the bottom is so slow there's not enough liquid for surface tension to bring the flow together. Can also imagine grind is too course so flow is far too fast and watery. If you have a scale you can weigh the extraction. You're looking for about 36g of espresso in 25-30 seconds from pump on. If you do not have a scale a liquid volume of about 45-65ml including any crema in the liquid volume measurement. If you are getting far more or far less in 25-30 seconds grind size is the issue and you will need to adjust grind finer to slow the extraction or coarser to speed it up. Hope that helps!
Marc
Thanks for yet another excellent video!
I wanted to know how to match a bottomless portafilter to a specific machine, so that it lines up nicely at 6 o’clock…? (Mine is a pasquini Livia 90s). Thanks!
Hi GR, Thanks for the question. Get a bottomless designed to fit your machine. Getting a perfect clock-in to 6 is more a function of your group gasket being the right size. Filter basket may play a role as well as some have a slightly higher ridge that others. If you're clocking to far it may be time to replace your group gasket or add a shim behind it. If replacing your group gasekt consider a silicone version which last longer and those don't require as hard a clock-in to create a seal.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage thanks again!
Whats the best Tampa station for a naked/bottomless portafilter 58mm, can you do a video to show the differences please
man, your Set is stunning and flawless!! Very attractive
Hey DrBrain, Thanks!
Marc
Thank you. I now understand. Great job
You are welcome!
Marc
Thanks, how about using bottomless basket with single spout Portafilter for avoiding channels mess?
I have been binge watching your channel hopefully going to pick a machine out and order one. Not sure what one yet maybe the Gaggia Classic or just go all in and so i don't regret it later.
I adam, Thanks for the comment and watching! Good luck on your decision. If in US and you'd like one on one advice from a coffee pro to get into the right machine for your needs give us a call at 585-924-7170.
Marc
Absolutely awesome channel Marc. Your level of perfection and extensive knowledge is unique. I wish you sold to the uk
Hi Eliiot, Thanks so much for your kind comment. I hear from a lot of you from across the pond! Maybe we'll open a UK branch someday!
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Would love to have you here in Canada as well.
Why use different baskets for pre-ground coffee and that little black insert?
Hey adj, When you use preground coffee you cannot control the grind size like you would if grinding fresh on your own espresso capable grinder. The pressurized baskets used for pre-ground get around the lack of grind size control as they create the restriction that causes pressure to build up. The espresso from pressurized baskets is good but it's possible to make better espresso using standard non-pressurized baskets and fine tune the grind size to create the proper restriction. The little black insert is to prevent spraying of espresso out of the portafilter spouts from a pressurized basket when used in a Gaggia Classic espresso machine. You do not need to use the black pin if grinding fresh and using non-pressurized filter basket.
Marc
Is going 58mm future proofing? especially with accessories
Hi r, a 58mm is commercial standard and most common so more choice in accessories!
Marc
0:21 wow~~ I want everything~
lol
As usual, great information. I'd love to see a discussion about the intersection where shower screen meets filter basket. Does upgrading the basket make good sense without upgrading the shower screen? For example, with the Rancilio Silvia M's stock shower screen, is it worthwhile upgrading to an IMS basket? Upgrade both?
Hi s, Upgrading a basket can make a huge difference! Precision baskets usually have a higher flow rate meaning you'll generally use a finer grind which opens up deeper extractions. Especially true in comparison to the stock Silvia basket which is smaller than most and has a fairly low flow rate. If you upgrade the basket be aware the Silvia portafilter is fairly shallow so you'll be limited to an 18g capacity filter basket like this one: www.wholelattelove.com/products/baristapro-18g-nanotech-precision-portafilter-basket
Larger triple baskets and IMS competition baskets are too deep to fit in stock Silvia PF.
Upgrading a shower screen can help provide a more even flow of brew water onto the coffee. That improves consistency by reducing the chance of channeling. Upgraded shower screens also stay cleaner and are easier to clean when needed. Have a look at your stock screen. It's an actual screen texture with nooks and crannies where coffee oils/particles accumulate. Upgrade screens are smooth, often have non-stick coatings and have openings designed to create even flow of water onto the coffee.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Hey Marc, can't thank you enough for the detailed response. I've noted your recommendation for the basket. Do you also have a recommendation for upgrading the shower screen? If I'm going to upgrade one, might as well upgrade both. Thx/Rgds from western Canada. S>
Hello, great video, many thx! I`m using a 15-16g dose, sometimes 18g, and i`m looking for a basket for Gaggia Classic Pro. VST baskets are out of my bugdet. can u please recommend one basket to go for? IMS seems like an option but it's pretty confusing with all the sizes and styles...I`m planning to buy a bottomless portafilter to go with it. Also, i got a 58mm tamper. With the stock basket from Gaggia, this one is a little small, should have bought a 58.3-4mm. Should i change the tamper also? Many thanks again!
Hi AD, Thanks for the question. Here's a selection of filter baskets from BIT, Barista Improving Taste: www.wholelattelove.com/collections/portafilters-and-filter-baskets?_=pf&pf_v_brand=Barista%20Improving%20Taste
The "BoB" line are lower cost precision baskets designed by former Italian Cup Tasting Champion and manufactured by IMS. For your dose I'd select the 18g BoB filter basket currently $15: www.wholelattelove.com/collections/portafilters-and-filter-baskets/products/barista-improving-taste-bob-filter-basket-18g
Here's the Gaggia Bottomless PF which includes a 21g triple shot basket: www.wholelattelove.com/products/gaggia-bottomless-portafilter
For a tamper, this BIT tamper is 58.6mm and designed to work in tandem with the BoB filter basket: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bit-espresso-tamper
Hope that helps!
Marc
I just received my DUOMO The Eight Distribution Tool. Because I have to set the depth, I would like to use the same basket for my all of my portafilters. So if you had to use the same one all the time, would you go with the Baristapro or the IMS curved? Thank you for the video, it was great, as always!
Hey Dean, Well, there's a bit of personal preference involved. I will say I get great results from the Baristapro baskets. IMS curved are a little more finicky in my experience.
Marc
Nice video. I don't have any questions, just wanted to say I hadn't come across that rounded basket before. I may need to get my bottomless some curves
Hi DP, Thanks for the comment. Round bottom does help bring bottomless shots to a single stream.
Marc
Hi Mark, Great explanation. I use a 7 gr single shot VST basket, and a 18gr. Double shot. The double shot is easy to distribute and tamp, but the single shot a bit messy, as the tampers are not the right size for the smaller cake diameter. Any remedidy/suggestions?
Hi K, Not sure I understand... your single shot baskets have a smaller diameter than your doubles? Outside rim diameter should be the same. I understand singles have a taper towards center, but a proper dose in a single should result in the top of cake being same diameter as in a double basket.
Hi Marc, it was a nice video.
I have a concern about replacing the original aluminum portafilter of my spresso prima latte machine (a model made by Oster) by a stainless steel naked portafilter and I really appreciate your guide on it.
This low cost machine has an aluminum portafilter (as I said before) maybe fixed into an aluminum structure, beyond the plastic case, so, I'm thinking that replacing it with a stainless steel portafilter (made with a harder material) could increase the risk of broken the case of the machine.
I know the stainless steel is a far more thermal stable, so it would be better than aluminum to extract the coffee flavors, oils, etc... but considering the hardness differences, maybe it'd not be a good idea to replacing it.
I saw naked portafilters made in aluminum, but I'm not sure if these would work well. Maybe that'd be the way I must explore... (Sorry for my terrible english level) 😊
Good Afternoon Marc! I recently just got into the making my own espresso game. We purchased a Delonghi EC702 (after watching this makes me feel I may have chosen wrong), I am wanting to use a bottomless setup, but it seems that my model is one of the small baskets? Could you please help and recommend a Portafilter and basket for us? When I look for measurements it seems to be 51mm IN and 58ID? I think. any help would be appreciated, because I am able to find loads of 58mm items, but not so much 51, so its making me think I am not doing something correctly. Thanks ahead of time, I am a new Subscriber and have been binge watching lots of video's , you are very knowledgeable and thorough keep em coming!
Hey PG, Thanks for the comment and question. So the machine you got is more at the appliance end of espresso makers. Nothing wrong with that if your just learning the ropes. Unfortunately, I'm not aware of bottomless portafilters for your machine. You are right it uses a smaller PF than standard commercial or prosumer level 58mm. That said, there's probably some company out there making a bottomless that'll fit. Honestly it's probably a low demand item. Your machine is designed to use a pressurized filter basket and all bottomless have to use a standard non-pressurized filter basket. Next time around move up to a machine grade product. My favorite premium entry-level machine is the Gaggia Classic Pro. It uses a commercial size 58mm portafilter and comes with both a pressurized and non-pressurized filter baskets. Pressurized baskets are normally used with pre-ground coffee so you can make an okay espresso even if you don't have a grinder. Then add a quality espresso focused burr grinder down the road and you can make exceptional espresso in non-pressurized filter baskets. And the GCP can be upgraded with a bottomless portafilter and more. Hope that helps and thanks for subscribing and watching!
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thank you So much Marc for replying, My Wife had mentioned the exact Machine you mentioned, I pulled the trigger to quick and had purchased the Delonghi, and came across your channel after the fact... you win some you lose some, I know better now ;)
thank you for the great video, very informative !
Glad it was helpful!
Marc
Hi Marc, as usual, another helpful video. Can it be possible that there is a basket from IMS that can fit the Breville Barista Touch portafilter the same as you show at 6:57?
Hi AA, Thanks for the kind comment and question. The Barista Touch uses a 54mm filter basket. To the best of my knowledge IMS does not make a 54mm which fits the Barista Touch. :(
Marc
Whole Latte Love sad to here this. Thanks for the reply. Any suggestions?
Thanks for this video, Marc. Any 51mm IMS baskets? Or do they only make 58mm baskets?
Hi Franco, You are welcome. IMS does make 51mm baskets but not that we carry :(
Marc
Thank you Marc, I learned a lot from you.
Hi Nasser, You are welcome and thank you for the comment!
Marc
Hey Marc, thanks for all the information. Got a question on bottomless portafilters for you. I've seen them where the bottom edge of the portafilter is almost even with the bottom of the basket and then some where the portafilter is much deeper, with the bottom edge well below the basket. Aside from the former providing easier visual access to the bottom of the basket, does this make any difference? Are there any other considerations that would help determine which bottomless filter is better than another or is there one you recommend in the 51mm size?
Hi EA, You are welcome for the info! More metal in the portafilter = more heat retention. It's rare, but I've run into a few bottomless PF's which limit the size of the filter basket used as the bottom curvature prevents use of triple shot 22g capacity rated baskets. If you want to do triples - common when pulling naked extractions make sure the PF you choose will accommodate the depth of the filter basket. Unfortunately I have no recommendations for 51mm. Overwhelming majority are made for standard 58mm commercial size with a few available for 54mm.
Marc
Hi Marc
I really appreciate your channel. I’m learning so much. I have a Starbucks Barista by Saeco.
Can you please recommend a naked portafilter and double shot basket? Thanks
Hi v, Thanks for the question. I'm sorry I do not have a good recommendation. The product you have uses a pressurized portafilter. It's not designed to work with standard non-pressurized portafilter/filter baskets. I'm sure someone has hacked it or maybe a third party vendor makes one but IMO it will not work well. Here's a video on difference between pressurized appliance grade products and standard non-pressurized espresso machines: th-cam.com/video/v-9qJbmCgCQ/w-d-xo.html
Marc
That’s a huge collection Marc! Why do the prosumer machines come with ridged baskets? Surely their R&D have proved these are the best? Penny for your thoughts.
Hi sc74, In some baskets ridges are reference for max fill. Things sometimes change slowly so years ago a company or two was making filter baskets and that's the way they were made. I was introduced to Baristapro baskets a few years ago by an Italian Cup Tasting champion who worked with the company to develop higher end basket resulting in Baristapro.
Marc
Hey there, great video. Could you do a video on the VST baskets? Heard a lot about them.
VST baskets have been around the longest; I think they were the first "precision" baskets to hit the market. From my experiences they tend to be far less forgiving of poor technique than even a BaristaPro/IMS basket. VST baskets have holes that extend further to the perimeter, which means that any slight imperfections in distribution/tamping will show up. Notice how the BaristaPro basket actually has wider margin between the edges and the perforations. The Competition basket seems to function similarly to a convex tamper, in that it promotes that "single stream" more easily, but it's very slightly slightly altering the density distribution of the coffee grounds.
Hi LD, Thanks for your input! Much appreciation!
Marc
very useful video! I think this is the very first one video talking about the portafilters and the filter baskets. I have one question. I am focusing on pulling an italian style espresso with 14g in a filter basket. However, it is hard to pull a espresso with rich of crema and it always looked under-extraction even if I try the grinder from coarse to fine. ( My setup: Lelit Bianca + Ceado E37S and Illy classico blend coffee bean ). Does anyone know what kind of filter basket italian use regularly to pull coffee in a caffe bar ?
Hi IC, Thanks for the comment and question. It's likely the filter basket which came with your machine is very similar to that used at bar in Italy. Lack of crema from an Italian style bean blend is usually due to improper grind size and/or the coffee. Small changes in grind will have a big affect! Illy Classico is 100% Arabica. Arabica coffees are trickier crema producers usually requiring a level of freshness and good technique to get the crema. If crema is what you desire you might try an Italian blend with some Robusta beans in the mix like Lavazza Super Crema: www.wholelattelove.com/products/lavazza-super-crema-whole-bean-espresso-coffee or one of my favorites (and used in this video) Maromas Orphea: www.wholelattelove.com/products/maromas-orphea-whole-bean-espresso
Perhaps you've done this already but if not I'd work at dialing in the grind size. Honestly I'd also go for a larger coffee dose. Here's a video covering dialing in grind and other tips for easy espresso success: th-cam.com/video/D6lLYgx1Ow4/w-d-xo.html
Marc
try some fresh roasted beans /5 - 20 days after roast
hi Marc, great video thanks! question for you - i purchased the BZ group Bezzerra bottomless filter. i was using the stock basket that came with the portafilter included with the BZ13, however it was too small to use a filter screen (ie/the screen kept bending due to the screw in the grouphead). So i went ahead an purchased the IMS big bang precision filter 58mm 22-24g. the problem with this one was the coffee was touching the rim at the bottom of the portafilter befroe it could work its way to the centre of the basket - hence causing spillage everytime. I think maybe too deep of a basket at 27.5? Anyways - was hoping you could suggest a good basket that i could use with my BZ group Bezzerra bottomless portafilter, whereby i can pull a double shot (19g ish) and also use a puck screen and still have enough room to avoid denting. Thanks Marc!
Hey Sonny, Unfortunately I do not have an IMS Big Bang 27.5 to play with at the moment. If I understand, your extraction is not filling into the center of the basket? If that's the case sounds like brew water is finding easier path around outside edge of basket. Have you tried modifying puck prep using WDT, leveler, modifying tamp pressure, changing grind size or similar? If BZ13 had a pre-infusion I'd go there as it swells coffee and may help "seal" the edge a bit. My other thought is convex head tamper for a slightly thinner puck profile in center. Something like this: www.wholelattelove.com/products/ecm-convex-tamper
Not sure that will do it but might help.
26mm basket might be a squeeze with 19g plus the screen.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage thanks for speedy reply! Yes - i have tried everything, including WDT, light tamp, heavy tamp, double tamp etc etc...i think the issue is the way the bezzera bottomless (bz) is designed - there is a bit of a rim at the bottom. I think the 27.5 is too tall as the edges don't quite touch the rim, however when coffee starts to come out of the edge it touches the rim, hence not making its way to the centre and then spilling out. At any rate - i found DEX MHW-3Bomber deep extraction 22g basket which is 27mm height (vs the 27.5 IMS big bang). I'm hoping it solves the problem (given it gives me an extra .5mm) - it should arrive sometime next week..fingers crossed. thanks again - and i'm still loving the bezzera machine!
@@SonnyMagon Now I understand! It's the way the Bezzera bottomless has the lip which curves in a bit towards bottom of filter basket.
@@Wholelattelovepage yes hoping the DEX MHW-3Bomber will do the trick. Hopefully will arrive early next week.
Great video. Thanks
You are welcome!
Marc
As a rookie I'm really struggling with my new gaggia classic pro prestige bought in your store 😅
I also got a eureka mignon grinder.
Tried 3 different coffees.. tried all kinds of coffee grinds and it's always either going through too easily and very watery and tasteless or doesn't even go through and takes a minute to fill a small espresso cup and is almost cold.
I know i'll eventually figure things out but i'm so far from a silky espresso. Hope it has nothing to do with the gaggia.
Wondering if could be that basket included in the prestige package lol
Is this normal I struggle this hard as a newbie with this setup?
Hi Simon, I'm sure you'll get the hang of it. Single most important thing is getting the grind size right. Adjusting as needed while keeping all other variables consistent. Small changes in grind size can make a big difference. As you make small adjustments to grind size be sure and use the same weight of coffee in the portafilter. Other best practices include: Making sure your machine is fully warmed up. Turn it on at least 10 minutes before use and keep the portafilter in the group when not in use so it warms up too. Be consistent with tamping pressure and make sure you tamp level. Here's a video covering the basics of dialing-in grind size which may help: th-cam.com/video/jOY7D02n4Cw/w-d-xo.html
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage thanks for your reply. Matter of fact I think I found my issue after testing out several yields and seems I prefer a ristretto to a longer shot and since I had no idea of the yield and was only using duration to gauge, I thought all my shots were watery. I love my espresso acidic, "thicc" and sweet so I guess that's the italian way?!
Hi Mark, may I know the measurements of the profitec two-way filter holder? I would like to buy a dosing funnel and I am undecided between 58 or 58.5. Thank you as always!
Hi f, For a dosing funnel you should be fine with either the 58 or 58.5mm. Profitec filter baskets (like most all those labeled as 58mm) are actually slightly larger than 58.5mm. Lately, more manufacturers of accessories are using actual measurements for tampers, levelers, etc. but 58 and 58.5 are almost always interchangeable.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Hi, thank you, I purchased the Normcore funnel dispenser, reading the comments it adapts perfectly to ECM and Profitec, the magnets attach perfectly
@@fabiolicenziato4263 Thanks for the info!
Hey Mark, just bought my first espresso machine wondering why you prefer ims competition basket versus regular basket?
Hi Marc and thanks for your video! I'm an absolute beginner and want to buy my first espresso machine. Can't decide between the Solis Barista Gran Gusto and the Gaggia Classic Pro. But my question is... you have mentioned the IMS Baristapro Nanotech and afterwards for naked portafilters the IMS competition. Where the difference or how should I use these ones? Couldn't I use the Baristapro with a naked portafilter? Sorry for the newbie questions :)
Hi Stefan, You are welcome for the video. Yes you can use any of the filter baskets in naked portafilters. I suggest starting with the Baristapro and getting your technique down before trying a competition basket which are less forgiving of technique problems.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage thanks for your help! 😊
I have an older over 10 years old Silvia Rancilio machine. Want to purchase my very first bottomless portafilter. My question is should I be purchasing a Rancilio bottomless portafilter or would another brand of equal price do the trick? thanks.
Hi Sue, This is the one you want: www.wholelattelove.com/products/rancilio-bottomless-portafilter
The lock in tabs on Rancilio PFs are a little different in design than those on other manufacturer PFs and good news, the Rancilio is less expensive than most! Bad news, currently out of stock.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thank you for replying. Is this a Canadian website. I'm wondering how much is the Rancilio bottomles portafilter in Canadian $. And is it the 58mm that I need? Again my machine is over 10 years old. And when can you expect it to be back in stock? thanks so much!
@@Wholelattelovepage One more thing, watching this video you are using a small metal thing to pop out the basket. Is that something you sell in the store?
Great video! Lots learned.
Can I under fill a basket, meaning for instance filling a triple shot basket with only a dual shot worth of coffee?
May give you a soggy coffee puck afterwards, but should work. Just give it a shot
Hi Thomas, I don't have much experience with severely under filled baskets. But if using a basket rated to 22g capacity loading with 17g is probably fine.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage thanks for answering his question. I just received my naked portafilter and it has a 21gram basket that I want to put 18 grams in. Hoping to not have soupy pucks.
Trying to find a new angled porta with new double basket for my breville duo temp pro... have to do more research
Hi JN, Good luck! I don't think Breville makes an angled PF for the machine.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage thanks! They don't😭 and cannot find any other company that can make one for 54mm size. I am going to see if I can get a baristapro basket but have to figure out the measurements.
@@JustNel I have the duo temp and the portafillter for me is actually level so check if your basket is level because I think it is.
@@cameronknowles6267 angled* not level.... So that you can just tamp instead of having to angle it yourself
@@JustNel what I said was pretty confusing my bad but for me it is angled just enough that when I set the whole portafillter on a table the basket is level
Hey Marc with the curved baskets do I need another tamper or my 58.5 tamper should be fine
Hi Samantha, You can use the same tamper for baskets with a slight curve at the bottom.
Marc
Hey thanks for the video
I have been looking for a portafilter handle for my Elektra micro casa (leva) - do you sell these?
Hi H, thanks for the comment. It's possible but guessing it would not be original equipment. I'd inquire with our Tech Support team here: support.wholelattelove.com/hc/en-us
Marc
great video!
can i use a non-pressurised filter basket on my at home appliance? it came with pressurised filter baskets
thanks
Marc I havee a profitec 700 Pro. I also have all 3 Porto filters and baskets. I even have there ims competition basket. I have a couple of questions 1)can you use and should you use the ims 18/22gram filter basket in you double group Porto filter or is it just for the bottomless Porto filter. 2)how many grams should my double shot in standard basket yeld liquid wise in your clear measuring cup with oz and mil.written on the side I purchased from you yeld. Figuring on 17 grams of espresso
Fantastic ! Thank you!!
I do have 2 questions..of i may
1- how do you know if there is enough coffee in the basket ?
2- I noticed that my best espresso shot was when the stream was wider, coming out of my bottomless..
But I don't know how I did that and don't know how to do it again..
Thanks !!
Hi Eric, You're welcome!
1. Many baskets have a ridge line on the side wall of the basket which indicates a normal fill level after the coffee is compressed/tamped. You can use a little less or more with no problem. Just try to be consistent with the amount you use. If you see an impression of the shower screen in the coffee puck after an extraction you used too much coffee.
2. Bottomless shots are tricky but an excellent tool for improving your technique. Producing a good bottomless shot requires control of variables... being consistent with each from shot to shot. So get the grind size right, use the same coffee dose, good distribution in filter basket, level tamp with same pressure, controlling brew temperature etc.
Marc
Is a 22 gram basket too large for a 19 gram grind?
Hi HC, Most likely not. Especially if you're using a darker roast coffee which is less dense than lighter roast and will occupy more space in the basket. Too much coffee in a filter basket is usually more of a problem than being a couple grams under rated capacity.
Marc
Hey Marc! Do you still prefer the bowl-bottom baskets over flat-bottom baskets?
Great video! Very interesting point @4:42 about seeing the shower screen indent on the puck. I use a Breville Barista Express Espresso machine at home and have seen this imprint multiple times, I always use 18g with the double basket. how many grams of coffee do you suggest for someone using this machine?
Thanks!
Edit: The Breville Barista Express uses 54mm portafilters
Hi Lauren, Thanks for the comment and question! It's been awhile since I've used a Breville with 54mm baskets like the Barista Express. My guess is capacity depending on coffee used may be less than 18g. If seeing imprint of shower screen I would back off on dose weight until you no longer see an imprint.
Marc
Hi Marc,
Loved the video as always! I was wondering if you could help me figure out why do single shot baskets not make a good espresso at all than a double shot basket, despite all the parameters being taken as same (i.e grind size, time, proportion of dosage)? Is it because of the too much taper ?
Hi IS, Thanks for the kind comment. Singles are more difficult to use as they magnify any problems. So if you get a channel thru the coffee puck it's impact will be greater. One could argue the taper in a single basket changes an extraction at the base level.
Marc
Somehow I'm still looking for the verb in this YT title; How to.... choose? Upgrade? Shop for? Something? Haha, but great video and sharp glasses Marc.
Hi CM, I hate glasses so much so thanks for the comment! Hear you on the lack of verb - guess it's implied :)
Marc
thanx for a great video, my machine has the 51mm, which can only take 15grams max as I undrstnd it, is there a way or gadget to help me make 17 grams shots on my machine.? I hope u, or any of ur respected followers, reply and help me. truly need the help, thanx 🙏🙏🙏😊
Hi PB, Check with the product's manufacturer. Usually not many options for espresso makers using a 51mm PF.
Marc
Thanks allot for this video ... Is the portafilter like la marzoco fit E61 group head or not.
Hi MAA, Don't think a La Marzocco PF will fit in E61 group.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks allot Marc.
Liked the video. Interesting though, no mention in the video even of the existence of 51 mm or 49 mm baskets, which are the most commonly used pf sizes in most lever espresso machines - and which, though "niche" machines, are decidedly not low-end appliance machines! (In fact, I bought both of my Gaggia Factory 106 lever machines from you in 2007 or 2008 - and both, with their 51mm baskets, are still going strong!) I almost exclusively use naked PFs in my two machines, ever since having two extra PFs "cut" just a few years after purchasing the machines. I don't think I've used the stock dual spout PFs more than a handful of times since then. I recently "retired" one of the "cut" naked PFs and replaced it with a "straight wall" naked PF so that I could experiment with a triple basket, as the triple baskets don't fit into "cut" PFs due to the slightly too small "cutout" hole. Can't say I've yet noticed any real improvement in the cup when using the triple basket, but I'm still experimenting with it - and enjoying the experimentation...
Hey Richard, Sorry I did not mention. And thank you for your patronage! As you're well aware 58mm is most common in commercial style non-lever machines. A few high-end machines like Dalla Corte use 54mm baskets. And yes, levers are a bit niche so I did not get into those. But they are most definitely not appliance grade! Those smaller lightweight aluminum baskets with lower capacity are the norm on the appliance grade machines and they are almost always pressurized to allow for use of subpar grind or pre-ground coffee.
Marc
I’m buying an ariete moderna espresso machine and the filter that comes with it isn’t naked, my question is that are the filters standardized across all the machines? So that i can get any naked portafilter so what matters is only to get the same size 58 as the one that comes with the machine
Hi G, Thanks for the question. No portafilters are not standard across machines. Some work with other brands some do not. I'm not familiar with the machine you reference. Took a look at a photo of one and it appears to use a somewhat non-standard type of portfilter.
@@Wholelattelovepage thanks, I ended up buying a non pressurized filter basket from VST that fitted nicely and then cut the portafilter at a turn shop. It worked out perfectly !😄
How can we upgrade our machine to better parts. How do we know what will fit. I have an esspresione 1040. Happy with the coffee so far but I think I can do better
Hey MrB, That's an appliance level product so not really upgradeable
Hi Marc. I purchased a brand new profitec bottomless which came with a triple basket.
The basket seems to deep?
When I tamp it flat it, the basket slightly pops up…. I’m using a corner bench tank matt
Hi fgk, When the triples get big they sometimes extend beyond the bottom. Last I knew our triples that come with do not. Solution is a tamp station like this that holds the PF by the ears or smaller triple: www.wholelattelove.com/products/ecm-tamper-station
@@Wholelattelovepage thanks Marc. I’ll assume it’s the replica I received and not an original.
thank you so much for the great review
I visited the website whole latte and ims webbsite for the shower screen and baskets. But got lost and didn't know what to purchase.
What would you recommend to buy for my rancilio silva pro x ? (looking for sahower screen with triple and double shots
and thank you so much
Hey Mark! Thanks for the video. A couple of months ago I upgraded my basket to a 20gr barista pro with nano tech. I also changed the group head components (gasket, shower screen and brass holder) on my Gaggia classic pro. I'm getting beautiful shots indeed, however, I did notice that the puck is slightly more wet compared to when I use the basket that the Gaggia came with. What do you think this is due to?
Hi Andrea, Nice performance upgrades! The IMS Nanotech shower screen in the Classic flows nice compared to stock: www.wholelattelove.com/products/ims-nanotech-gaggia-classic-shower-screen
I wonder if larger coffee dose or more clearance between puck and shower screen might be resulting in a slightly wetter puck. Also, are you backflushing with something like Cafiza on a regular basis? Over time coffee gunk and oils build up in the solenoid release plumbing and can restrict water flow off the puck.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage interesting take - I do backflush every couple of weeks with the cafiza, however, I did not take into account the fact that the basket is bigger and thus I may need to up the dose slightly. I've been brewing with 18g pretty much since I got the Gaggia. I'll start using 19g as a test. Will report back with my findings. Thanks, Marc!
Hi Marc,
I have an ECM Syncronika that I purchased from you and just purchased a bottomless portafilter. Now I would like to upgrade the basket from the stock ECM basket. With the stock basket and portafilter I have been grinding 20 grams of coffee. What basket and size do you recommend? Thank you. Leor
Hi Leor, I'd go with this Baristapro 20g nanotech basket: www.wholelattelove.com/products/baristapro-20g-nanotech-precision-portafilter-basket
Marc
Hola Marc,
Hope your Thanksgiving was gooder than good. (that noise you just heard was my English teacher rolling over in her grave)
Your Gaggia Classic is a must for home use, had ours now for many moons and me wife and I love it.
However, just ran into one little issue which I'm sure is an "operator" issue - likely connected to a too much vino the night before - Doesn't matter what cup I use its tiny crema and espresso coming out, not like before. I put an MT (empty) basket in the holder and water comes out fine. Never had an issue like this as I can remember but I'm officially a Viejo so need ideas how to fix?
Mucho thanks mon.
Hello Chef B, Thanks for the report on your Gaggia Classic! If running fine empty is there any chance your grind is somehow finer? Or maybe you had a little extra coffee to counteract the wine😉? Either of those would slow down the extraction.
@@Wholelattelovepage ...Reconsidering it all, me thinks maybe the grind size iz off. I asked me wife's opinion and she thought my grind size has been off for a long time. ( She's trying to be funny again)
Fantastic !
Really pertinent Information..thank you !!!
Is there a machine that comes with a maximum equipment what is suggested and is it compatible with the baskets that you recommend?
Hi Eric, All of our Rocket Espresso machines with custom walnut wood accents ship with a bottomless portafilter and a triple shot 22g Baritapro Nanotech filter basket in addition to single and double spout portafilters and matching filter baskets. Like this Rocket R58: www.wholelattelove.com/products/rocket-espresso-r58-with-wood-accents
Also available on the Appartamento, Type V and Evo R Rocket machines.
Marc
Hello Marc,
Good video. I have a Breville Bambino Plus and I would like to know what bottomless basket and portafilter do you recommend.
Thank you,
Alex
Hi AH, Thanks for the question. As far as I know there is no recommended bottomless PF for the Bambino. It's designed to work with a pressurized filter basket and bottomless PFs are not pressurized.
Marc
VERY helpful video. Thank you.
Glad it was helpful!
Marc
Does Barista Pro make the nanotech baskets for the Breville 54mm portafilters?
Hi SVD, Thanks for the question. To the best of my knowledge they do not.
Marc
All you ycc all forget to tell how to measure the portafilter if I should want to buy a new. Is it inside or outside? Is it with or without basket if it's inside?
Hi MM, Measuring may not be the best way to decide on a new portafilter. The most common size and commercial standard is 58mm which refers to the internal dimension of the filter basket which sits in the portafilter. With the filter basket removed a portafilter might have an internal dimension of ~62-63mm but varies by manufacturer. Another issue not all 58mm (or other size) portafilters work in all 58mm espresso machine group heads. The lock in tabs on edge of portafilter may be different position or size. It's best to match a replacement PF based on your machine make/model.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage When my machine is a cheap generic nobrand it's hard to upgrade when there is nothing to go by. A better filter would go a long way till I can buy a real machine so for now that is my way. The filter that comes with it is a pressure filter. I would like to try a non but the portafilter doesn't allow for this as it is cast with a bottom bit.
Thanks for the video! Love the great content. What is the stock basket size for the Rocket Appartamento double portafilter? What size basket will the portafilter accomodate? 18g? 20g? Thanks!
Hi PO, Thanks for the kind comment and question. Appartamento comes stock with a single and double basket. Double capacity is ~18g. Portafilter can accommodate up to 22g Baristapro filter basket with a height of 28mm. This one: www.wholelattelove.com/products/baristapro-22g-nanotech-precision-portafilter-basket
Hope that helps!
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks for the quick and helpful answer! Cheers!
Great Video! Can I use 18gram of coffee in a 17gram portalfilter basket?
Hi Jn, Thanks for the comment and question. Most likely. If you see an impression of the shower screen in the puck after an extraction reduce the dose next time.
Marc
Hello! Can you help me out ?
i am very new to this espresso world and i bought a very cheap home machine , philco 15 bar which came with a pressurised basket - but it doesn't "locks" in the portafilter, if i put the basket in the portafilter and turn it upside down, it falls... and i noticed that more professional portafilters has this wire inside... i want to know how does is work, how to put this wire in and out , so i could adapt my portafilter over here somehow... can you give me some explanation about this ?
I purchased a well reviewed bottomless portafilter that is compatible with my entry level DeLonghi Dedica. I did this because I bought a new espresso grinder and the original porta filter that came with the DeLonghi was too high to fit into the grinder. Anyway the issue I have now is that the espresso that comes out is just a huge mess. Very strong but also very watery, and there is no foam whatsoever. What am I doing wrong?
Hi A, Thanks for the question. A few things... Bottomless poratfilters quickly reveal any issues with the preparation of ground coffee in the filter basket. If grind is too coarse, clumpy from the grinder, distributed and/or tamped unevenly you may get spurts as brew water finds channels of lower resistance in the coffee puck. Another issue may be the machine. Machines like the Dedica were designed to use the stock pressurized filter basket. That type of basket has a restriction built in which causes pressure to build up making grind size and coffee puck prep less critical to success. These entry-level machines often operate at higher pressure than machines which use standard non-pressurized filter baskets. The higher pressure helps push the espresso through the small restriction. Running at higher pressure the coffee puck is more likely to have channeling when you use the bottomless portafilter which has a non pressurized filter basket. Based on your description, my guess is your grind is too coarse. Grind size is critical when brewing in non-pressurized filter baskets. Here's a video showing how to dial in grind size: th-cam.com/video/unHHToGjshI/w-d-xo.html
Hope that helps!
Marc
Hey Mark, great video! I have the Delonghi Espresso Icona Eco 311.W and I want to make the best coffee I can from that machine since I can't buy a new one! I bought a grinder and a tamper, coffee beans and now I am looking to replace the basket but I can't figure out what basket to buy for that machine.
Thanks Marc for all these videos and patience to answer every question. Do you need tamper station to level and tamp expresso with bottomless portafilter? There no spouts at the bottom of portafilter to sit when tamping esp. if one uses newer nano baskets (they are curved at bottom)? Does one damages basket over time. I am assuming curved shape will be flat over time?
Hi Acorn, You are welcome... I love answering the questions and helping others!
You do not have to have a tamping station for bottomless PFs. I often just put the circular basket containing portion on the edge of a counter with the handle hanging off then level and tamp away! You can use a tamping station if desired, but not required IMO. Use a rubber mat or similar to protect counter from repetitive use damage if needed.
The Baristapro NT baskets are flat bottom. Depending on size used and specific portafilter most do not extend beyond the bottom edge of the PF. We do have (and I use occasionally) IMS Competition baskets with curved bottoms like this one: www.wholelattelove.com/products/ims-curved-bottom-precision-portafilter-basket-18-22g
With some PFs the bottom of the basket may extend slightly beyond the bottom edge but it's relatively rare.
Hope that helps!
Marc
brilliant content as usual!
Hey c, Much appreciated!
Marc
Hey Marc, amazing easy information,
I own a Smeg ecf01 espresso coffee machine, and I think it haves 51mm filter, do you know is there is a bottomless portafilter and non-pressurized filter?
Thanks for the help!
Hi JR, Thanks for the kind comment. I am not aware of a bottomless for that machine. One might exist but my guess it would be made be 3rd party manufacturer as I'm fairly certain that machine was designed for pressurized basket only.
Marc
Is there a bottomless portafilter basket for buzzers hobby? Does the hobby use a bz group?
Hi Joseph, This bottomless PF works with the hobby: www.wholelattelove.com/collections/bezzera/products/bezzera-logo-bottomless-portafilter
The Hobby uses a BZ style group.
Marc
Marc, "maybe different in the rest of world"....yeah..... Maybe....just maybe.
Great video, man!
Hi DPM, Thanks for th e comment!
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Marc, keep those videos coming! I really enjoy them!
I would like to learn to do singles with the nanotech. I have one but the Asso distribution/tamping tool doesn't work with it. Otherwise my go-to is the nano 20g basket. I normally dose it to 19.2-19.5 grams of coffee.
Hi SS, I don't do singles but the Baristapro single baskets are much nicer than most stock single baskets as the dont have the heavy internal ridge.
Marc
I have a kinda dumb question.
I swap baskets a lot but find myself effing around with a knife often. I don’t want to scratch my stuff though. Is there a method or a tool to swap them baskets easily? (I know they tend to loosen up iver the years but I don’t feel like waiting)
Hi P, Yes there is a tool! Here's the portafilter basket ejector tool: www.wholelattelove.com/products/portafilter-basket-ejector
Another common method is to use the edge of basket not in the PF to lever out the one that's in it. Just turn the free one upside down and lever under the lip near the lock in tab of the PF. Not as elegant as the tool but does work.
Marc
Thanks Marc! Slapped on my wishlist for Santa. :)
Hi I wanted to know if the filter that I bought could be of bad quality because it doesn’t give a creamy extraction like the one I lost! What are your thoughts?
Hi GC, I don't know which filter basket you have so it's hard to offer an opinion. Filter baskets have differing number of holes, shapes, flow rates, coffee capacities, etc. These variables can affect espresso flavor and other qualities. If using the same coffee in different basket and the extraction has less crema my guess it has more to do with your grind size needing adjustment than the filter basket.
Marc
Hi Mark, Love your videos, Im from India and just bought a Delonghi 685, wanted to know if there is any option for a bottomless basket for this machine? Please help me out. Thank you.
Hi Gagan, Thanks for the comment and question. There are no bottomless filter baskets I'm aware of. I'm guessing someone has modified/hacked one. Here's the thing... The Delonghi is designed to work with a pressurized filter basket and my guess is results will be less than optimal if trying to brew through a non-pressurized filter basket. Even if it did kinda work one would need a rather expensive grinder - probably higher cost than the machine to get reasonable results.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thank you, Marc; really want to continue brewing, was looking into getting a Baratza Sette anyways. Hope that would be enough to brew some decent coffee in the Delonghi 685? Also, the problem is that in India there not many options for a decent machine, either it is not available or more than twice the original price, Delonghi is the only official seller here... Thank you once again and keep up the awesome work!! Cheers!!
Do you need a special basket for a bottomless portafilter?
Hi Marc - Great stuff as always. I bought the appartamento + the jack leveler from you guys. Noticing channeling. At least 3-5 holds. Any suggestions? What is the stock basket size on appatamento? I am using 17g/34g. Any suggestions to improve my extraction. Since I have the jack leverler, i dont tamp. Thanks
Hi TF, Thanks for the comment, question and your patronage! Stock double basket runs 16-18g capacity depending on coffee type. Towards the higher end for lighter roast specialty coffees and lower for darker roast blends. If you see any impression of the shower screen in the puck after an extraction you've exceeded the basket capacity. If not already doing so be sure and run a short cooling flush prior to an extraction to remove over-heated brew water. Without a cooling flush, in most cases the coffee will be hit by an initial shot of steam and over-heated water which increases chance of channeling. With the Jack set the depth as deep as possible without the depth adjustment slipping when spinning.
Hope that helps!
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage thanks Marc.