A new golden age for Wales? The Class 231 reviewed
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ก.พ. 2023
- Wales is getting huge amounts of investment for its transportation network, and the flagship project is the South Wales Metro, which is now finally being implemented. The first of the new trains, Stadler's FLIRT Class 231s, have entered service so I took a few rides and have decided to share my thoughts.
Discord: / discord
Credits:
Transport for Wales
Seth Wales
Nicky Boogaard
Steve Knight
Nelso Silva
John Robert McPherson
Spsmiler
Superalbs
(All via various Wikimedia Commons licenses)
Music:
Dover - The Westerlies
As someone who will be frequently be commuting on one of these for school, I'm really happy with them.
They're a huge upgrade in journey quality and can't wait to see the roll out of similar new trains across the network and the potential expansion of the network it can enable.
TFW definitely isn't perfect, but they're at least trying to improve on the mess they inherited from Arriva
Ye it's staggering the diffrence from arriva to tfw. So much better now on the rhymnney line
I've been using these every day for the last few months on my commute to & from work. Before this, I hadn't used a train in maybe 15 years, since the days of the old pacers. I never thought they'd get rid of the damn things, so getting onto one of these was a total shock to say the least.
It's insane just how much of a step up these are from the 140 series of pacers. Even going from these to the 150s which I have to put up with on the last leg of my commute is a huge step down. They can't get more of these fast enough, if you ask me!
There are two things which bug me about them. One is how the doors take longer to open than older trains, thanks to that little board that juts out. The other is another niggle, but it's to do with the way the seats are mounted to the cabin. If I sit on the window side, I find that I can't put my feet under the seat in front, leading to an excruciating journey. This is because of the way they've mounted the seats to the wall with a diagonal bar instead of to the floor. I'm only 5 foot 6!
That seat bar is irritating, and unfortunately becoming common across many new trains.
I do like the Class 231 Flirt and the Class 197 Civity. Plus with the Class 398 Tram-train and Class 756 Flirt that are currently being built and are to enter service next year.
Wish that Transport for Wales and Network Rail were to electrify to Swansea. The Class 231 (and Class 756) are identical to the Greater Anglia Class 755 Bi-mode Flirt.
Not quite identical, the 756 is a Tri mode unit.
We have 399s which are basically the same but lower floored and they're are god awful. They run on our tram train route from the city centre to Rotherham and they're incredibly unreliable, uncomfortable and have hydraulic breaks for some reason
Stadler builds great trains
The reason you don't see level boarding on trains that aren't FLIRTs is that typical single-level train designs put the floor on top of the bogies, and for most typical designs that sets the floor at about 1100-1150mm above the top of the rail, while UK standard platform height across the national network is 915mm. The beauty of the FLIRT platform is that it's designed as a low-floor train, so the floor is designed to dip between the bogies to serve European 550 and 760mm platforms; the nice thing about the UK platform height being only 200-250mm lower than the height over the bogies is that it's easy to make the trains roll-through.
even in switzerland, where the platform height is 550 mm, flirts are roll-through, all the way until the end, where you have the two windows (2.5 on FLIRT 4) that are above the powered bogies connected by stairs
@@SebastianD334 Interesting; are the non-power bogies in the middle set up with drop axles or something like that so that the floor doesn't have to change in height, or are there just internal ramps over the non-powered bogies?
To my knowledge TfW have also given drivers and staff a pay rise that they've accepted, so wales definitely has a better future in terms of rail transport ahead of it. I believe they are not limited by DfTs garbage unlike other operators, nor the greed of a non-existent parent company.
Yes, they’re independent of the DfT and it’s serving them well seemingly. The Welsh government is quite keen on telling everyone they’ve sorted the disputes!
@@GWVillager All the power to the Welsh government then!
Pity that TFW are hopeless at running services and at managing projects. The sooner it is taken back to private operation the better.
@@TrenyCwm The issues they're facing at the moment are 95% not their fault, they've just had very, very bad luck. A lot of problems were inherited from the not exactly stunning Keolis Amey partnership, and TfW can't really do the infrastructure upgrades they want to (outside of the Valleys at least) as it's all still in the hands of the DfT. When you look at what TfW themselves are actually doing, they're rather competent.
@@GWVillager It's exactly what TFW are doing that lacks competence. Trust me, their management of the services and of the on going Metro development is grossly incompetent.
3:15 Why is is so bloody difficult to design a half decent PIS display here on trains (and buses) in the UK? Take one good look at the Dutch PIS designs and you can see where you are going, the time, the next station, which side the doors will open ON A SINGLE SCREEN without wasting space or being overly cluttered. Still haven't rode the 231s yet but I'm still not looking forward to it. It seems better than the 769, but so is Argos jewelry.
Still, nice video buddy :)
It's hard to design a half decent PIS because it's Britain, and why would anything in Britain be good?
PIS displays do seem to be universally poor here, and likewise I have no idea why. That said, the West Midlands Railway ones are pretty good.
As far as I have read and understood, these units are planned for use on the Cheltenham to Maesteg, and Ebbw Vale to Cardiff and Newport Services, so they are not strictly designed for the services they are being introduced on now. They are being introduced now on metro services to displace very u reliable trains for the interim, till the other stock intended for the valleys metro service arrives into service. I do agree, it seems a waste of opportunity that these units are not with a pantograph to use electric power as mu h as is possible, especially considering there intended service use.
Cheltenham to Maesteg feels like a shame, the 170s currently operating it are basically perfect and carpetless trains aren't a great replacement.
@@GWVillager I tend to agree. Am amazed that they have no carpets.
surely it wouldn't be too difficult to install pantographs in the future?
@@kanzo.7488 Yeah, that's the idea. But in the short term they will be operating under wires anyway.
@@GWVillager The 170s are just a temporary measure they are increasingly coming off lease and being sent to EMR (I believe)
I suppose the 231s Could use pantpgraph between Cardiff and Severn tunnel junction, and no doubt it would be of benefit to extend the electrification at least as far as Bridgend as the IETs could also use it.
Wales has faced, and continues to face difficulty - over the last few years - removing 142s 143s - PRM for the 150s-153s and 158s - all the situations that's had a huge impact on the world - 769 issues, 230 issues -- effects of strikes, now issues with the 175s.. but for some reason.. we seem to be standing up to everything.. and finally 231s in service- - 756s on test run,, 398s being delivered to the tram depot -- upgrades of electrification. - It's really happening!
I live in West Wales so only recently got the chance to use one of these, and the level boarding completely threw me off. I'm so used to having to climb mountains and go through dangerous spelunking missions to get into the Sprinters where I live that just stepping into a wide interior felt almost alien to me.
Great review
Personally I love the look of the these trains. Been on many of the Swiss versions. Will be interesting to see the class 398 tram-trains rolled out as well.
I myself can't wait for the tram-trains, but only if they actually operate on both road and rail!
Are they not planned to operate on road? If not, why were they chosen?
@@Blackburnian737 They will eventually operate on-street in the Cardiff Bay area, but they'll initially enter service with heavy rail bogies that will prevent that. Hopefully they see their intended use fulfilled
Nice review, so glad to see the Cardiff and South Wales train network finally being brought into the 21st century.
I agree about what you say regarding neglected stations and lines. A lot of lines that make up the SW Metro are single-track only and most if not all of them should be double tracked or at least given passing loops. Some of them thankfully are (like the Bay line and bits of the Treherbert line) but it's ridiculous that the current constraints of the City/Coryton line for example mean that there can't be more than 2 trains per hour (and no Sunday service at all!). The whole system needs at least 4 trains an hour on all lines as far as I'm concerned.
Let's hope that Transport for Wales continues fixing these issues with the admittedly very bad hand of cards they've been dealt.
There’s some incorrect statements in this review, the class 231 won’t be the new metro trains, the class 231 will be firstly used in the Rhymney line, and then later replace the class 170 used on the EBB, MST, GCR, CNM mainline services.
The Stadler 756 will be the metro train, fully electric, as the valleys are being electrified.
The class 756 are currently being tested between Cardiff and Swindon running on electric.
The Class 231s are, for the passenger, virtually identical to the 756s, and will operate partly in the Metro area, so I think it's fair to review them, for all intents and purposes, as a Metro train.
Quite like these tbf.
Also enjoyed the Greater Anglia variants.
Always sat next to the thrash cupboard😂
As for the horrid 150s,i've never forgiven them for replacing the lovely C3s
(for those old enough haha) although i enjoyed the Pacers as they had a lot of character.
.
I do agree the seats are firm but I have no problem with ergonomics. They do get uncomfortable for long services like the Ipswich to Peterborough runs that Greater Anglia runs with 755
Travelled on these 231 units in the valleys not much to get excited about much rather our old 150 they have been refurbished and are still a good train to travel on they may be noisy but still do the job after 35 years service in the valleys
Because level boarding with sliding step, has a major flaw. Also according to the RSSB the FLIRT's are not level boarding.
These are great trains, the direct relatives of which are running in East Anglia for a few years now. Only criticisms I would have on them is the power socket & USB placement, also the raised (stepped) areas inside the train. With the sockets & USB charging under the seats, people can't see them. The USB sockets on GA trains are already mutilated, the plug sockets are upside down & often fouled by the seat cushions when sat on. The stepped raised areas are a pain if you're not expecting them, especially if you've had a drink! Gonna be a lot of Welsh people stumbling about methinks, more so than in Anglia! And going by the maintenance routines of the older stock, I'm guessing the inoperable power sockets would remain so until a refurb, decades later, relocates them to more sensible places.
Also there's huge differences with Anglia & Wales. These trains have level boarding, though not sure how that works with the wildly undulating platform heights & surfaces in Wales especially with the small raised sections. Also, these trains come into their own (I'm talking the bi-modes here now) because they do run on already electrified routes, where in Wales the project is to electrify the Valleys? I think not electrifying to Swansea is a bit of an own goal, as these would make ideal local trains from West Wales through an electric core to Cardiff & on diesel again to Gloucester or Hereford.
But overall these are a great choice for Wales & let's hope they are looked after!
Virtually everyone agrees that electrification should continue to Swansea, but it was cancelled in 2017. It was to be part of the GWML electrification, so wasn’t planned for with the South Wales Metro.
Was talk of extending the Cardiff to Cheltenham service to Birmingham Moor Street in the future
That's an interesting idea, if they were to do that the 231s would definitely need carpets.
Doesn't sound awful, though I wonder whether it would be via Worcester (if indeed Moor Street, as I don't think there's a link into it after the line to Worcester branches off) or whether you mean New Street
@@Seagull81006 its the proposed links off the camp hill lines
Sees an image used from the Brisbane suburban network for the ramp example
Cries to be mentioned but in a bad way
It was the best picture I could find!
@@GWVillager it is kinda fun tho with the 231/745/755 how they achieve level boarding through having a lower train, while our approach has been to upgrade stations a handfull at a time and raise the platform.
i also look forward to seeing the approach the UK goes with overall cause you have a mix bag of platform heights and trains heights while we had a standardised train height, and a new standardised platform height so it made sense to just upgrade the ones that dont meet the standard
@@thestargateking Britain does actually have a broadly applied platform height standard, it's just too low for most trains heights. Likewise, I'll be interested to see how it goes.
@@GWVillager i mean more like, the height that the 755's and 745s are using for level boarding is lower than the height on the new crossrail trains making a "fun" incomptatability with level boarding
How did you get the font
I got it from Journeycheck.com, you can find the downloads here:
www.journeycheck.com/resources/tfwrail/web_integrated_8/assets/css/fonts/
Are these trains basically the class 745 and 755?
The 231s are diesel only, slower and equipped with more metro-like interiors, but are otherwise very similar..
needs a new track from cardiff to bangor via swansea , lampeter way
What engines are used it these units? Mercedes or GM.
They’re Deutz V8s.
I mean, fitting a panto and transformer shouldn’t actually be that big of a deal if that’s actually warranted, because as you said, getting good stations and rolling stock is probably way more helpful than a couple miles of running electric, especially because fitting pantos and transformer means more weight and maintenance for basically no foreseeable locations to run electric…
You say they have good acceleration for a diesel train ... that's because they aren't _really_ diesel trains! They are electric ⚡ trains, that have an onboard diesel generator instead of getting their power from an overhead line or live rail.
Well yes indeed, though for all intents and purposes they do it without electric connections!
In common with virtually every locomotive across the globe then.😅
TFW has made a great start. God knows it was a low bar they had to clear after the Valleys Lines and Arriva Trains Wales..
The biggest issue they have at the moment is a phrase that strikes fear in the heart of even the most seasoned rail user:- Rail replacement bus! There are far too many and they are so poorly organised that it has the whiff of committee rather than efficient business.
Still could be worse...
What I would like to know is "Why these newer trains" IE: Class 197 or 231 are not being used on South Wales to Manchester Piccadilly Services instead of the 95% use of the Class 150 Units which are clearly Not fit for Main-Line Services, There is nothing worst travelling 4 hours on a Packed Out "Class 150" 2 Car unit between 15.30-17.30 during weekdays on this long Journey from Manchester to South Wales, Its Soul Destroying and Clearly Not good for us the Paying Customers paying a Premium price for Cattle Class 150 units which has now gone on for far to long & about time TFW pulled there fingers out of there A****.
The use of 150s on the long distance South Wales to Manchester service has been a complete disaster and is one thing that TfW are certainly not happy or complacent about. That service is getting new trains, namely a Class 197 variant with a first class section that will operate half of trains, and the truly impressive Mk4 coaches inherited from the East Coast. The latter have had some teething problems, but are beginning to bed in, and the 197s have already started to be introduced on the service, though it will take some time for full introduction.
The reason for the use of Class 150s recently has been the chaos with the Class 175s, which have caught fire several times and had radiator problems. The new Class 231s cannot be used North of Newport as crews have not been trained for them, nor have they been cleared along the Marches Line, with its narrow platforms. It's inconvenient, but shouldn't last long. Essentially, TfW are definitely not pleased with the current situation, and within a year the South Wales to Manchester route should be unrecognisable, with all trains being 5 coaches long, new or refurbished, and with catering.
TFW is good on paper. But I use them daily. Theyre so unreliable
They are improving though, new trains and staff shortages are being sorted out.
@@GWVillagerThey couldn’t organise a piss up in a well stocked brewery.
I completely disagree that the train should have electric equipment. You may not realise but all that extra equipment weighs a lot. and unless travelling on significant amounts of overhead wires, this makes the trains fuel economy WORSE and therefore worse for the environment.
It doesn't weigh as much as the fuel required for large swathes of diesel operation, and on Cheltenham to Maesteg services, they operate on not insignificant stretches under the wires, which of course may even be extended with potential Cardiff-Swansea electrification.
However, yes, it's not issue No.1, but it's still something I'd like to see.
@@GWVillager fair enough, running to Cheltenham I can see your point. Anyways the wonders of these new units is they can he converted easily should the demand come. As electrification spreads I wouldn’t be surprised at all if we saw converted bi-mode or electric variants
the 231's already run on electric propulsion, the diesel engines simply produce the electricity to propel the train.
On the top there are already fittings for the instillation of pantographs for then TFW (hopefully) expand electrification on the network
Its a Re-skinned 755 with extra doors on only 2 other coaches, dont like them in my opinion.