I have been watching these videos for almost 20 years. Matthew commented on a thread i made on Onyx Path about how much the Giovanni are worth like 10 years ago and that was the highlight of my VTM career. This man is a treasure
I wish more people would talk about the Alexander bloodline of ventrue, the stewards of France and all the fun shenanigans they got into through the dark ages.
I like the idea of Ventrue being calm and collected schemers who not only have a plan as you said but also are determined to see it to the end. In fact I see Lasombra in almost the same way but the key difference is that Ventrue will gather followers through their charisma and personality Lasombra will do the same mostly by wielding fear like a true artist. There is also a bit of a difference in approach to keeping the power. Ventrue will be the rock that disperses the waves crashing into it and Lasombra will be the monster from the deep that normally stirs the storm.
For me the most interesting thing about the Ventrue, is that while almost every other vampire in every other clan is on some level obsessed with their own immortality, the Ventrue believe that they must still build a legacy.
I didn't understand how nuanced the Ventrue were as a Clan until I played a Ventrue. The Clan really suffers from an image problem as they're _constantly_ portrayed as the "Upper Class Business Guy Who Wants To Be In Charge" stereotype.
I've only ever had the opportunity to play a single Ventrue, and wound up playing him as a helpful NPC type for pretty much anyone who was acting against the Sabbat or their allies. He was actually on fairly good terms with local Anarchs (pre-V5) as well. He wasn't truly fond of them but if you were helping to prevent the Tzimisce and Lasombra from doing whatever they're planning he would be ready and willing to do what he could to keep that nonsense from getting out of hand
One of my favorite fan theories is that beyond the board the Ventrue antediluvian is still around and was never killed despite what the books say. Proposing that since dominate isn't just mind control but also memory manipulation as well making sure a few key kindred historians put the founder's death to paper. Along with I believe the Dominate 8 or 9 to control your descendants and the plot device level power back when that was the 10 level rank, they have been subtly manipulating the clan to remake the world and kindred society in their image. With the founding of the Camarilla being their largest achievement. As well as having the Sabbat Ventrue effectively be a more martially inclined aspect of the clan to then be brought back into the fold when the time comes.
Thanks again for another good video! I realised a while back that Clan Ventrue are a metaphor for the vampire as someone that cannot and should not be trusted (Yes, it's something I do with all the Clans. They are the baddies after all.) Consider that: -The Ventrue look to leadership positions. It's hard to call out who's in charge for what they do, or hold them accountable. They can pull rank and order you about. -They tend to focus on verbal promises and can be good to their word. Except when they aren't. -They claim they don't get angry. So when they knife you in the back or exact an excessive punishment, they do so knowingly. They can't blame the pressure of the job or losing their temper. They know what they do. -They claim they don't get angry. Except when they do. Or they express it in worse ways, like a cold, seething rage. -They claim they do what they do for the greater good of Kindred. But do they really? How can you work out if they do? -They claim to make big sacrifices in leadership. But do they talk of the exact sacrifices they make? -And we all know folks in leadership positions who love using disasters/emergency powers to push for what they want or get rid of political enemies. And given how they like to manipulate things, how do you know they didn't create the disaster or the situation? And even if the Ventrue will not stab you or others in the back 99% of the time, it's the 1% of the time that counts. And an occasional backstabber is still a backstabber. Examples? There's lots in crime fiction. Michael Colorone, Gustavo Fring, Ace Rothstein from Casino, Dr. Killinger and David Bowie from the Venture Bros., many of the folks from The Gentlemen film and series, the list can go on. But other examples include General Tarquin from The Order Of The Stick, Dolores Umbridge (In a pinch) from Harry Potter, and Malcom Tucker (Also in a pinch. Put his constant anger to one side) from The Thick Of It.
Bringing up ventrue in the past was amazingthank you. Ii feel as you go back in time the lore could be fleshed out more. Wistful thinking on my part. But speaking of Ventrue i wish there was more lore on Ventrue Sorcery. I know theres a loresheet for it in V5 which was cool.
Ventrue: "I am Marco, childer of Aurelius, childer [...] of Veddartha." Everyone in Elysium: rolls their eyes. Gangrel: "Oh, we are telling family history? I am Whiskers, childer of Jean-Luc Laupier, [...] proud childer of Ennoia, the best matriarch." Danava: "See, Veddartha is a Subcontinental sounding name. We are indeed its firstborn."
What serves Ventrue rule over the Kine better: an educated and armed aristocracy with leisure time and information headed by a monarch who will be deposed if seen as unfit and which constitute a restricted influence pool susceptible to Mages, the Church, and at risk of discerning kindred control? Or a democracy where figures gifted with superhuman charisma can sway crowds who are easily kept undereducated and overworked and just desperate enough to vote as they are steered to over decades through puppets who can have their memories wiped? Both. Both options work for the Ventrue.
Any chance of ever doing Requiem videos again? It’s been almost a decade since you’ve made a video about the setting, and the game could really use a bit of time in the spotlight (heck, an introductory video to Chronicles of Darkness as a whole would be neat)
@@Randomdudefromtheinternet If people support my Patreon or similar and want to request Requiem videos, then sure! The only reason I've gone back to Masquerade is because people are either buying The World Below and requesting the video as a bonus or because they're patrons and have paid for them.
I love the idea that Rome and Carthage mean different things for humans and vampires. This makes me doubt why didn't the Brujah join the Sabbat as its ruling Clan. Rome would mean the rule of Ventrue & Carthage would mean the rule of Brujah. Lasombra and Toreador would fill the same niche in each Sect. The Gang doesn't care. The Gang loves their Antediluvians. The Gang fits wherever they sits.
What would Masquerade Venture think of thier Requiem Counterpart? Would the Requiem Venture less sane mind (aloof curse) be a problem with the Masquerade we're superior Venture?
@loap4634 I feel like the clan is just one stereotype over and over again. And it isn't a stereotype that I find interesting. And compared to silver fangs in the garou nation, the silver fangs just makes much more sense. Like silver fangs have gifts that make them resist silver and deal damage with silver, that is to be respected... meanwhile, ventrue don't have anything special to them.
Remember that in the wod everything is also partly a pantomime of what it should be, hence the stereotype. Toreador aren't whimsy monsters with a veneer of artsyness to cover up their actions, but everything conspires to make them that as well. I think one of the points pf the game is that you fight back against your own stereotype and will likely fail. But the story is also in the tragedy
@mrl9418 Sure, but the toreador's niche is infinitely more interesting to me. When I encounter a toreador I want to know about what they consider art, what is beautiful for them, I want to see them do a work of art. When I encounter a Ventrue, I don't care for how they think they are better than me one bit xD. Normally if I get interested in a Ventrue character is because of aspects completely besides their clan.
Problems of clan Ventrue, .. were to start. a.) clan flaw was never fun to play where you can only feed from a given type of people. Beside how do you find a real blonde or social/ethic class to feed from ? Easier for me to run a self-control Malkavian with little slips of madness then deal with Ventrue flaws. I can understand not wanting to drink low from the herd. b.) most to all rpg is D&D class base adventures, hire guns character archetypes so playing and office jockey isn't their thing. Unlike the other clans Ventrue have .. night .. jobs. They don't hang out at the bar/Elysium 9nights out of the week or seen at every high-class political party. They have spread sheets to go over. Their hunting grounds or blood dolls are 3rd shift office workers donating the weekly blood drive for charity. 9am to 5pm hours are flip to 11pm to 5am. Depending on daylight save time zones during winter months. c.) Unless you are that special snowflake, most ventrue are ghouls and not kindred, not because of dealing with the local population blood supply, just because Talent for profit runs on daylight hours. So unless you had some bad health reasons the clan has a bias to turn older personal/servants during mid to late life with a broader experience to benefit the clan. d.) Everyone is different and different groups run their games .. differently. From high school comprehension to camp cheesy slap stick. As for the whole .. personal .. horror theme of WoD. You could not pay me enough to live in a large city, let alone do office work. People hear Ventrue and they reach for that classy vampire from Under World movie trilogy or the second Blade movie. The first Blade movie blood rave just screams Brujah. I have seen more than a few local clubs/gaming shops where playing a Ventrue or Toreador ghoul bodyguard gain more respect from Gangrel than any undead flop. Ventrue ghouls speak for the clan during daylight hours and they will pull you out of your haven screaming if needed. The head bashing Brujah thugs were at a loss when the Gangrel start eyeing and sizing up the ghoul bodyguards of the Vents & Tores cause they had that dancers' grace in step and pose of stance. Gangrel seeing a Brujah swagger and thinks, " .. poser.." Gangrel and Ventrue both can take a hit and keep moving, light shoulder bumps and keeping your balance says a lot. I have seen dice rolls of Brujah that did a charging tackle on a Ventrue and only Bounce off the bodyguard and the Vent just responded by brush and straiting his jacket afterwards. Brujah, " Its Blade, take Him Down ! " .. yup, all of them are going to get ash. Ventrue, " Pull back, you were not turned to be cannon fodder but to earn all of us profit. Withdraw, retreat, run if you have to and we send someone to see what Blade's or the hunters' problem is and then we will clean up the problem." Honestly, I have seen all the Blade movies multiple times, .. which isn't saying much. First off, other than bad writing, don't gloat over your defeated enemy .. just kill them. Second, .. thermite charges in lock down hallways takes care of anything that moves. As for the whole bullet time effect, .. use fast ammo and area effect weapons, not single target projectiles. City Gangrel in their animal form of some large mangy mutt rat, cat or dog is great at planting things. Nothing funnier than making fun of a Ventrue prince ugly lap dog, only to have it turn into a werewolf.
![[Vampire: The Masquerade] Ranking the Bloodlines Part 4/4](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/JeznGtU9cNw/mqdefault.jpg)
![[Vampire: The Masquerade] Ranking the Bloodlines Part 4/4](/img/tr.png)
![[Vampire: The Masquerade] The Guide to Clan Tremere](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/XdLszPGxMQY/mqdefault.jpg)
![[Curseborne] The Gentleman's Guide to the Hydes](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/TZ4tMa8NxEI/mqdefault.jpg)
If you enjoy these videos, you can pre-order Curseborne here: curseborne.backerkit.com/hosted_preorders 🩸🩸🩸
I have been watching these videos for almost 20 years. Matthew commented on a thread i made on Onyx Path about how much the Giovanni are worth like 10 years ago and that was the highlight of my VTM career. This man is a treasure
Oh wow, what did I say?
I wish more people would talk about the Alexander bloodline of ventrue, the stewards of France and all the fun shenanigans they got into through the dark ages.
I like the idea of Ventrue being calm and collected schemers who not only have a plan as you said but also are determined to see it to the end. In fact I see Lasombra in almost the same way but the key difference is that Ventrue will gather followers through their charisma and personality Lasombra will do the same mostly by wielding fear like a true artist. There is also a bit of a difference in approach to keeping the power. Ventrue will be the rock that disperses the waves crashing into it and Lasombra will be the monster from the deep that normally stirs the storm.
For me the most interesting thing about the Ventrue, is that while almost every other vampire in every other clan is on some level obsessed with their own immortality, the Ventrue believe that they must still build a legacy.
It's a fun little interest of theirs.
Ventrue: "You don't know what I had to sacrifice for your safety"
Toreador: "You don't know what you will have to sacrifice for my art"
And then it turns out that they didn't have to sacrifice that much in the grand scheme of things.
@@Galwayshadeyeah, let all the kine handle that lol
Tremere over there: "About what we sacrificed..." 😅
@@Darkmage1293 sacrifices you were going to make anyways don't count 😉
More Gentlemans Guide to Vampires! We’re so back bay-beeeee!!!
Only as and when people pay for them or buy The World Below and request them ;)
I didn't understand how nuanced the Ventrue were as a Clan until I played a Ventrue. The Clan really suffers from an image problem as they're _constantly_ portrayed as the "Upper Class Business Guy Who Wants To Be In Charge" stereotype.
A lot of clans became stereotyped based on their clan art.
Another Venture vid? I am here for it!!
I've only ever had the opportunity to play a single Ventrue, and wound up playing him as a helpful NPC type for pretty much anyone who was acting against the Sabbat or their allies. He was actually on fairly good terms with local Anarchs (pre-V5) as well. He wasn't truly fond of them but if you were helping to prevent the Tzimisce and Lasombra from doing whatever they're planning he would be ready and willing to do what he could to keep that nonsense from getting out of hand
That sounds like a good character!
One of my favorite fan theories is that beyond the board the Ventrue antediluvian is still around and was never killed despite what the books say. Proposing that since dominate isn't just mind control but also memory manipulation as well making sure a few key kindred historians put the founder's death to paper. Along with I believe the Dominate 8 or 9 to control your descendants and the plot device level power back when that was the 10 level rank, they have been subtly manipulating the clan to remake the world and kindred society in their image. With the founding of the Camarilla being their largest achievement. As well as having the Sabbat Ventrue effectively be a more martially inclined aspect of the clan to then be brought back into the fold when the time comes.
Thanks again for another good video! I realised a while back that Clan Ventrue are a metaphor for the vampire as someone that cannot and should not be trusted (Yes, it's something I do with all the Clans. They are the baddies after all.)
Consider that:
-The Ventrue look to leadership positions. It's hard to call out who's in charge for what they do, or hold them accountable. They can pull rank and order you about.
-They tend to focus on verbal promises and can be good to their word. Except when they aren't.
-They claim they don't get angry. So when they knife you in the back or exact an excessive punishment, they do so knowingly. They can't blame the pressure of the job or losing their temper. They know what they do.
-They claim they don't get angry. Except when they do. Or they express it in worse ways, like a cold, seething rage.
-They claim they do what they do for the greater good of Kindred. But do they really? How can you work out if they do?
-They claim to make big sacrifices in leadership. But do they talk of the exact sacrifices they make?
-And we all know folks in leadership positions who love using disasters/emergency powers to push for what they want or get rid of political enemies. And given how they like to manipulate things, how do you know they didn't create the disaster or the situation?
And even if the Ventrue will not stab you or others in the back 99% of the time, it's the 1% of the time that counts. And an occasional backstabber is still a backstabber.
Examples? There's lots in crime fiction. Michael Colorone, Gustavo Fring, Ace Rothstein from Casino, Dr. Killinger and David Bowie from the Venture Bros., many of the folks from The Gentlemen film and series, the list can go on. But other examples include General Tarquin from The Order Of The Stick, Dolores Umbridge (In a pinch) from Harry Potter, and Malcom Tucker (Also in a pinch. Put his constant anger to one side) from The Thick Of It.
Superb write-up!
@TheGentlemanGamer thank you
I never really appreciated the Ventrue as a clan beyond individual Ventrue.
But Mathew has a brilliant discipline to influence a change of opinion! 😆
Huzzah!
Bringing up ventrue in the past was amazingthank you. Ii feel as you go back in time the lore could be fleshed out more. Wistful thinking on my part.
But speaking of Ventrue i wish there was more lore on Ventrue Sorcery. I know theres a loresheet for it in V5 which was cool.
Yeah, we never really explored it much.
Ventrue: "I am Marco, childer of Aurelius, childer [...] of Veddartha."
Everyone in Elysium: rolls their eyes.
Gangrel: "Oh, we are telling family history? I am Whiskers, childer of Jean-Luc Laupier, [...] proud childer of Ennoia, the best matriarch."
Danava: "See, Veddartha is a Subcontinental sounding name. We are indeed its firstborn."
And the family falls into civil war.
@TheGentlemanGamer As it should.
i always thought that our ruleing methuselah was a member of the clan harbingers of skulls or clan kiasyd proves how wrong i was
I was a Gangrel all along.
It’s hard not to respect the Clan of Kings and Queens. 🗡️
Down with the monarchy 😮
What serves Ventrue rule over the Kine better: an educated and armed aristocracy with leisure time and information headed by a monarch who will be deposed if seen as unfit and which constitute a restricted influence pool susceptible to Mages, the Church, and at risk of discerning kindred control? Or a democracy where figures gifted with superhuman charisma can sway crowds who are easily kept undereducated and overworked and just desperate enough to vote as they are steered to over decades through puppets who can have their memories wiped? Both. Both options work for the Ventrue.
I Love it already. All hail to the kings 😁❤️
Prince
@mrl9418 Clan of the Kings 😊
"It's not because I'm British and can string a sentence together." Maybe not, but it does help!
I say, steady on old chap.
It's strange to hear you talking about The Clans without a dead pixel on your face. =P
I killed it.
Any chance of ever doing Requiem videos again? It’s been almost a decade since you’ve made a video about the setting, and the game could really use a bit of time in the spotlight (heck, an introductory video to Chronicles of Darkness as a whole would be neat)
@@Randomdudefromtheinternet If people support my Patreon or similar and want to request Requiem videos, then sure! The only reason I've gone back to Masquerade is because people are either buying The World Below and requesting the video as a bonus or because they're patrons and have paid for them.
I love the idea that Rome and Carthage mean different things for humans and vampires. This makes me doubt why didn't the Brujah join the Sabbat as its ruling Clan.
Rome would mean the rule of Ventrue & Carthage would mean the rule of Brujah. Lasombra and Toreador would fill the same niche in each Sect.
The Gang doesn't care. The Gang loves their Antediluvians. The Gang fits wherever they sits.
Ennoia's just chilling...as the Earth, or something
@@HuevoBendito Gaia is best Antediluvian.
What would Masquerade Venture think of thier Requiem Counterpart? Would the Requiem Venture less sane mind (aloof curse) be a problem with the Masquerade we're superior Venture?
Any Ventrue book/novel recommendations?
Go for Clanbook Ventrue for Vampire: The Requiem!
How are you I noticed on your top tier videos for vampires you didn't even put True brujha
True Brujah are a bloodline, he will review them in the fourth part of bloodlines ranking.
Yay! A guide to one of my most disliked clans!!!
What do you disliked about Venture?
@loap4634 I feel like the clan is just one stereotype over and over again. And it isn't a stereotype that I find interesting.
And compared to silver fangs in the garou nation, the silver fangs just makes much more sense. Like silver fangs have gifts that make them resist silver and deal damage with silver, that is to be respected... meanwhile, ventrue don't have anything special to them.
To be honest only good ventrue characters I have seen have comedic ones.
Remember that in the wod everything is also partly a pantomime of what it should be, hence the stereotype. Toreador aren't whimsy monsters with a veneer of artsyness to cover up their actions, but everything conspires to make them that as well. I think one of the points pf the game is that you fight back against your own stereotype and will likely fail. But the story is also in the tragedy
@mrl9418 Sure, but the toreador's niche is infinitely more interesting to me. When I encounter a toreador I want to know about what they consider art, what is beautiful for them, I want to see them do a work of art.
When I encounter a Ventrue, I don't care for how they think they are better than me one bit xD. Normally if I get interested in a Ventrue character is because of aspects completely besides their clan.
Bwahaha, what's wrong with being compared to Tremere?
Let me count the ways...
What year is this?!?!?!
Who's the President?!
Problems of clan Ventrue, .. were to start.
a.) clan flaw was never fun to play where you can only feed from a given type of people. Beside how do you find a real blonde or social/ethic class to feed from ? Easier for me to run a self-control Malkavian with little slips of madness then deal with Ventrue flaws. I can understand not wanting to drink low from the herd.
b.) most to all rpg is D&D class base adventures, hire guns character archetypes so playing and office jockey isn't their thing. Unlike the other clans Ventrue have .. night .. jobs. They don't hang out at the bar/Elysium 9nights out of the week or seen at every high-class political party. They have spread sheets to go over. Their hunting grounds or blood dolls are 3rd shift office workers donating the weekly blood drive for charity. 9am to 5pm hours are flip to 11pm to 5am. Depending on daylight save time zones during winter months.
c.) Unless you are that special snowflake, most ventrue are ghouls and not kindred, not because of dealing with the local population blood supply, just because Talent for profit runs on daylight hours. So unless you had some bad health reasons the clan has a bias to turn older personal/servants during mid to late life with a broader experience to benefit the clan.
d.) Everyone is different and different groups run their games .. differently. From high school comprehension to camp cheesy slap stick.
As for the whole .. personal .. horror theme of WoD. You could not pay me enough to live in a large city, let alone do office work.
People hear Ventrue and they reach for that classy vampire from Under World movie trilogy or the second Blade movie.
The first Blade movie blood rave just screams Brujah.
I have seen more than a few local clubs/gaming shops where playing a Ventrue or Toreador ghoul bodyguard gain more respect from Gangrel than any undead flop. Ventrue ghouls speak for the clan during daylight hours and they will pull you out of your haven screaming if needed. The head bashing Brujah thugs were at a loss when the Gangrel start eyeing and sizing up the ghoul bodyguards of the Vents & Tores cause they had that dancers' grace in step and pose of stance.
Gangrel seeing a Brujah swagger and thinks, " .. poser.."
Gangrel and Ventrue both can take a hit and keep moving, light shoulder bumps and keeping your balance says a lot.
I have seen dice rolls of Brujah that did a charging tackle on a Ventrue and only Bounce off the bodyguard and the Vent just responded by brush and straiting his jacket afterwards.
Brujah, " Its Blade, take Him Down ! " .. yup, all of them are going to get ash.
Ventrue, " Pull back, you were not turned to be cannon fodder but to earn all of us profit. Withdraw, retreat, run if you have to and we send someone to see what Blade's or the hunters' problem is and then we will clean up the problem."
Honestly, I have seen all the Blade movies multiple times, .. which isn't saying much.
First off, other than bad writing, don't gloat over your defeated enemy .. just kill them.
Second, .. thermite charges in lock down hallways takes care of anything that moves.
As for the whole bullet time effect, .. use fast ammo and area effect weapons, not single target projectiles.
City Gangrel in their animal form of some large mangy mutt rat, cat or dog is great at planting things. Nothing funnier than making fun of a Ventrue prince ugly lap dog, only to have it turn into a werewolf.