It's definitely wide, however, with the right grip, it works. Zy's opinion about it not being good for competitive is straight up wrong and ONLY applies to 1 specific grip which HE, not you, is using. There are many different locations where you can place your finger -tips - flats - joints etc. on any mouse AND use different techniques to turn the mouse (e.g. pivot on pinky using thumbtip in addition to wrist turning), so this can certainly be a precision mouse for competitive gaming. It just ultimately depends on your grip style and method of manipulating the mouse to aim.
Not to mention he's measuring it from the widest possible point, which is a glorified finger rest. The portion between your thumb and ring finger is a comparable width. Also, he said don't get it for fingertip grip? For me, it's perfect for fingertip. Just don't place your fingertips on the far front edge and you'll be fine. In fact, with this placement, your thumb will be perfectly between the two side buttons.
Big agreement from me, have been aim training with the MM720 and the Xenics Titan GE air which is a wireless clone of it for some time now, reaching Voltaic master scores :D
I bought one out of curiosity and I honestly really enjoy it and I feel like I aim better with this than most mice. Very comfortable and gives no hand fatigue
Just to put this into perspective: This shape is over 10 years old now, and coolermaster has brought it back multiple times in between those ten years. This is a testament to its popularity and, with all due respect to RJN and other reviewers who take the time to assess the mouse, a review simply cannot get across the uniqueness of this mouse shape. It's really something you have to personally try yourself.
Yeah it has its fan club, but I review mice for competitive FPS these days and I don't believe this has good aim potential. If it's comfort you want ... well I don't even find it comfortable, but power to you if you do.
@@RocketJumpNinja Rain has cs go's one of the best mechanical aims and has always used this kind of shape. I would be really intersted to see him use "normal" shaped mouse and see how he performs.
@@RocketJumpNinja I cannot place my ring finger on the right side of a mouse as it will quickly cause hand pain from applying any lateral force, but putting it on top gives me very little control of the mouse. (I believe this has something to do with the relative lengths of my fingers and hand structure.) My current best mouse is a super egg shape that I have cut off part of the button and made a finger spot using polymer putty glue. I'm hoping that this mouse will allow me to have good grip on the mouse while allowing for a large finger range of motion although I'm concerned about the second part.
@@liquidmetal9015 shape and comfort matters a lot, you honestly want to put comfort over everything else. won't matter how good your aim is if your wrists start hurting.
Mas eu relação ao mouse, ainda uso um xornet II, o scroll ja foi pro saco faz tempo, mas ainda o uso, nao consegui me adaptar com outro mouse e nem sei qual ficaria tão bem quando o xornet, esperar pra ver se pego um desse.
I have very "square" hands (wide palm relative to overall length), so many competitive, thinner mice have a habit of giving me cramps with regular use, since I'm forced to use a very tight fingertip grip, so I'm glad they're bringing the design back
This is my favorite mouse ever, i've had tons including the starlight, ul2, DA, Da mini, model o, o-, d, d-, and many more When i bought it i was not sold at all i just wanted to try it, but i insantly fell in love, it is absolutely worth trying
I main fingertip and this is by far my favorite fingertip mouse. I also really don't like wired mice but I'm willing to deal with a cable as well as the bad scroll wheel and buttons all because of the shape. Its the only mouse I've tried where i can pick it up and instantly do well with it. Its also my best mouse when it comes to consistency
Bro, I share this exact sentiment. My subjectively uncomfortable G703 started double clicking so now I have an excuse to buy this mouse. Really excited to test it out. Idc anymore about wireless or wired if the shape is this good!
Yeah he's definitely wrong. Don't recommend people to get skinny grip width mice if theyre not comfortable using them. You're not missing out on anything.
As other commenters said, you can only experience the uniqueness of this mouse, the form is one-of-a-kind, and if right for you, you would buy 2 pieces just to have a replacement if one breaks, somehow. For me this is THE mouse, I have a pretty wide palm, not so long, but with shorter pinky fingers and with every single mouse my palm would cramp up after 1 hour of gaming, which was very much annoying and frustrating, couldn't focus on aiming that much this mouse is just perfect if you have wider hands like me, the weight and its distribution is perfect, great features and performance, and for FPS use my aim even improved(!) with this magnificent piece of machinery thank you, Cooler Master
ZY - You don't measure claw grip width from the outside of the mouse in this case. You do it where the ring finger ledge starts. The ring finger rests on the ledge and you can easily pick up the mouse without the pinky involved. This is a very finger tip review. I had been using the Capetown and the M1 before I got this mouse, and this one is just WAY better for claw grip. Better front to back slope than the capetown, and better weight distribution than the M1.
i still use my spawn..... literally been the only mouse ive used for over 10 years. i NEED this mouse. but is it the same size as the spawn?? my hands are small
Do you use a mouse like that in fingertip? Im a loving fingertip fps player. I find this mouse interesting. Because I play with much circular movements with my finger and wrist, this makes my aim very good. I think this mouse could have the perfect build for this. I think I try it out when it comes out.
I was wondering if maybe he misspoke? He said to look at other mice if you fingertip grip, but this mouse has all the makings of a fingertip grip endgame.
I use the CM Spawn as a fingertip mouse. It would probably feel better if it were a bit narrower, but I still prefer it to more traditional shapes because of the ring finger rest. It makes it feel easier and more natural to grip, and as far as lightweight mice, it's the only mouse that has one. Every other mouse with a ring finger rest is a large, "mmo" mouse.
This is amazing. I used to have the Spawn and loved it. I tried the G305 but it gave me so much pain, I had to sell it. I am using the GPW now, but if this came in a wireless version, I would buy 3 units straight away.
just got mine, it's a dream come true (i've been using my little red spawn religiously for like 14 years) such an upgrade! but keeps the same comfortable shape that i am so accustomed to. i'm incredibly satisfied and in love
I cannot believe your Spawn held out for so long! I had two in about 5 years after which they were completely spent and I couldn't justify paying the extra-premium for the leftovers that were on eBay..... Love the Spawn, picking up this one
Would love to see your reviews branch out some more. I liked the monitor review, maybe you could do keyboards or reviews of other things too? Like you said, mice are all basically about shape so there's not much to really go over unless there's something wrong with the mouse.
Seconded. Would love to see reviews of all peripherals; perhaps on a second channel? Monitors, mousepads, chairs, microphones, cameras, PC builds, etc.
Why look at different mice for fingertip? just because the thumb buttons are not far back enough? the length of this mouse is so short and it is so light and has a rest for the ring finger. Seems like a good finger tip grip mouse. My hands are 19.5 cm. I really don't like the razer viper i have for fingertip.
I be completely honest here, I bought literally the top 10 of Zy's micelist. And none of them suited me well except the m42 which is imo a bit to small in width and had by FAR the best build quality. Thought I give the MM720 a try and I fucking love it. After a few hours, ez +10% across the board in kovaaks + it feels very comfy and controlled while playing up to the point where you forget there even is a mouse. And imo (17.5x10.5cm hands) I would argue that every grip would work on it. Except you have rly big hands. Yes this is unique in shape but if your haven't found your safe heaven yet. Give it a try. And yes, the MM720 is a competitive shape! PERIOD!
Sorry to necro this but to RJN's point; I've been testing a LOT of mice while adopting fingertip grip (as a lifelong claw/palm user, I am 35 and play Apex/OW) and I have for example both the mm720 and the o- wireless. I can tell within a second that aiming potential using fingertip with the o- wireless is higher than fingertip on the mm720. My results in-game reflect this. I am faster on the o- wireless both horizontally and vertically and more precise. The "pencil theory" holds up here I think. I've gone from DA Elite to Basilisk to Xtrfy M4 to Xlite v2 Mini and now to o- wireless. It's tough for my muscle memory and hand to get accustomed to ambi and small (with medium hands) but it does seem to be better for aiming potential for me personally. I can understand however that people do not want to give up comfort, as that is the most important thing for the majority of people.
It's the most comfortable mouse i've ever used. I just can't aim properly due to the uneven dimensions of the mouse, my x axis flicks are just too inconsistent. Most comfortable shape, the lightest mouse, the feet gives amazing precision. I will probably wait for the RVU superlight as i was spoiled by the mm720's featherlight weight and that would probably be my endgame.
I understand why he said this mouse was not for competitive. Because many users, using their hand when the fingers get closed together for movement consistency, with the index or middle finger, like people point to somewhere or basically like we use the pen. The 2nd, when the finger get closed, the pressure from the finger to the side of the mouse noticeable increased ( opposite with the MM720 - thats why it is the most comfortable mouse ), so you can adjust the micro more correctly in high velocity. And the last, when the fingers get closed, knuckles dont open widely, you have more space to adjust your movement. I think it all about the habbit, and the feeling of each users. So, choose what mouse is good for you!
You'd probably do better if you eventually got used to an objectively more biomechanically conducive shape. Try a mouse at 60% of your hand width and as short as possible (because almost all mice are too long).
Actually, I have been through quite a few mice and even left my xornet for a couple years for Logitech g pro and definitely did worse with it, Although better with it then a lot of larger mice. Also, although not being the best I do tend to rank in the top 5-1% of players with my "biomechanically" odd choice. Just because something is better with something doesn't mean everyone will be. Also, I know quite a few people that have used the xornet and did very well or better. Maybe the thoughts people have on how all mice should be and how sensitivity should be low is based more on not trying everything/staying in their own comfort zone? Maybe you'd do better with this mouse? Have you tried? Like for over 100 hours game time?
@@ingwiafraujaz3126 also, to be fair, my hand is 17cmx11cm wide, which means this mouse isn't all that much bigger then the 60% everyone wants, being like 70%. And at 17cm I have pretty short hands making most mice significantly to long.
Thanks for your reply.. i've the same hand dimensions as yours and i was reluctant whether to get this mouse or not.. thanks for the encouragement @joshuabecker1695
"If you use fingertip grip you should probably look at different mice" - are you kidding? This things was litterally made for fingertip grip and is the best fingertip grip mouse I've ever used
I picked this up about a week ago and I'm very impressed so far! Going from a heavy/draggy teflon footed Logitech G9X to this shape with a fingertip grip or relaxed claw is soooo comfortable! (19 x 11cm). Both mice are very similar in size and shape.
Very happy with my Viper Mini, thing is, idk if it's too small for me. It's my first gaming mouse. But at the same time idk if I would switch if it broke.
I have 19x11cm hands which makes them also on the wider side. How has your experience been using this mouse since you commented? I use fingertip grip as well.
Playing with mm710 atm and will surely give this a try. I play with fingertip/claw and have issues with nearly every mouse because i have really wide palm..
I was super excited for this mouse as I was a fan of the Spawn. A couple notes I bought the white gloss and I have discovered I do not like the way gloss feels. It is definitely different from the Spawn shape and still very comfortable. My issue with the spawn and why it got replaced by a DeathAdder was because of CoolerMaster firmware that would continue to increase your CPU usage every time you push caps lock which back then was my push to talk button. The song looked promising and I probably would have purchased the satin one, but during my first week of use I noticed a squeak but I don't remember if it was left click or right click. That's still one of my favorite shapes and I would have certainly enjoyed playing with it some more but I've always seemed to have an issue with CM mice unfortunately. I replaced it with a Viper mini and that seems to be perfectly fine quality but it's just not for me so I'm back on the hunt.
In the scale of 0-100% how much do you say this mice differs from Spawn? You see, I'm also a big fan of the original spawn. But back then I don't play any fps competitively only mobas and mmos. Then came overwatch and I kept hearing advice to use ambidextrous mice for FPS. So I switched to Logitech G102 back then, and now I used MM710. Now I have more confident in my aim and thinking to go back to my first gaming mice that I ever had.
@@MarooTK It's definitely different but familiar. I gave my Spawn away to a friend that was buying some weird Logitech $100+ mouse MX Master maybe so I never had them side by side. I was looking at the Razer Naga with the swappable sides just because I like the ring finger rest. Sorry I'm not more help, but I couldnt say anything definitely.
can you disable acceleration via the software? btw this is probably the most comfortable shape ever for claw/fingertip grippers. ive had the spawn, xornet II (got rid of it because of built-in acceleration), and currently have the mm520.
I was looking for a new mouse for some time now... Couple of years back I had an accident and tore a ligament on my pinky. Ever since gaming for 2 or more hours straight was really tedious because my pinky started to hurt a lot. I've used a G403 for some time now but the mouse wheel broke and it is time for a new mouse. Was hoping to get one that my pinky was finally comfortable with. The shape of the MM720 is weird, yes, but perfect for me. I'm a palm gripper with fairly big hands (19cm long, 11 wide) and although the MM720 is rather short and now as high as other right-handed mice it feels immensly comfortable. So I've been using this mouse the entire afternoon now, playing Apex with my friends. My pinky feels a bit stiff, but it doesn't hurt - the G403, which I've had some time now and the Glorious D, which I've tested for the last couple of days would have caused some pain, not the MM720. And - this might be more due to luck :P but that afternoon I won 2 games of Apex ^^ and the other games went really well, too. Often coming in Top5 - has never happened before with another mouse :P
You guys really need to play a battle focused game that forces you to aim at your best, constantly, to know if these mice are actually better for your aim or not. Quake Clan Arena 1v1 is the only game I've found that allows for that. The rest is ... as you say, could be luck or a whole heap of other things like no one good was on. I don't base my thoughts on "wins", I base them on how well I'm actually aiming in heated situations under constant pressure to perform in game. That said, I'm glad you found a mouse you like. 👍
Can you really just measure the bottom for grip-width when there's a place to rest your ring finger on the mouse? It's not like you wrap your hand around the entire 7 centimeters. I think the traditional 'grip width' measurement doesn't work on a mouse like this
Exactly my thoughts, the pinky isn't doing all that much of the gripping work so I think it's placement is less relavant. Although I worry about the pinky still limiting range of motion due to it being so far out, can't wait for mine to arrive and find out.
Nice review. Would you please provide a little more detail on the main buttons? Is there significant pre or post travel? How would you asses general stiffness of the plastic used for the main buttons compared to the MM710/711? Thanks :)
The debounce setting is a bit odd considering the MM720 has LK optical switches, just like the newer Razer mice. Perhaps they just reused software elements and forgot to remove the setting?
The fact that Mionix does not update the NAOS with lighter weight material or a hexcell design and better optical sensors is almost frustrating because people enjoy this style of mouse and Mionix has the best design in my opinion. This style of mouse shape feels great and being able to keep my hand and wrist entirely off the mousepad gives me better aim control and consistency I've found. From a competitive standpoint, I actually fell out of SMFC in CSGO after switching from the Naos to the FinalMouse Air58. Since then I've tried a bunch of ambidextrous lightweight mice and I don't feel as consistent as I used to.
Just a suggestion, I think maybe you should've measured the grip width from the ring finger rest? Measuring from the bottom can show how far apart your thumb and pinky are, but because your ring and pinky aren't stacked on top of each other like with most mice, I think that there's an argument to be made that your actual grip width is between the thumb and ring finger, with the pinky finger just pushed more out of the way.
The grip width is measured from thumb to between ring and little finger, generally, or wherever I believe the most likely measurement should be, because sometimes it's different to what you'd expect. I take this stuff into account. It's just too wide and I don't believe this shape can help people aim better. More comfortable maybe, but not better aim.
Hey bro I am a big fan of you I watch every video and I like each of the minor specification you tell . My first question is if we have a bad computer with bad processor and no graphics card is there any benefit having good mouse??. 2nd question is that I want you to review cosmic byte Equinox beta wich would cost much less like less than 1500₹ INR like 20 dollars pls answer my questions bro
Is this the same shape as the original Cooler Master Spawn mouse from many years ago? I am a claw grip but this shape, for some reason, worked incredible for me .... but I do not do FPS so that probably helped. Seriously, I loved the shape almost as much as my original Logitech Wingman mouse.
I never understood the inclusion of the human latency test. Seems like an inconsistent way to measure click latency, especially since the margin of error is likely to be significantly larger than the actually latency of the click.
Fingertip grip or claw grip, small hands. Ninja always talking about 2:1 ratio as perfect. For me its trash. Ideal ratio for me would be 1:1. I want the mouse to be short (for my small fingers) and also wide as hell so i can use fingertip grip more easily.
I have this mouse with 20cm by 11.43 cm hands and it feels great! I use a relaxed claw grip with it. Fits like a glove. Can't palm it though as my finger tips would pass the 1 and 2 buttons.
@@darklight7046 It is a very comfortable mouse but it started to hurt my wrist due to it's flatness. I went back to my G903. If they made it taller and maybe longer I would say it's perfect.
IMO you really could dive deeper.. Just my opinion based on the last hand full of mouse reviews I have watched. Would honestly love to see you dive into the intricacies of mouse shape and mouse grip with each review. If you don't dive deep, it's essentially a waste of time to hear you talk about the advancement of sensors again..
Honestly, there is no reason to watch his "reviews" anymore there are much better reviewers out there nowadays that go in-depth with their reviews his channel is basically just showcasing new products that companies send him.
Hi, just wondering if you had any recommendations on a new mouse. My hand size is about 7.5 inches long by 4 inches wide. I currently have a Roccat Kone XTD which I love but my left click switch is worn out. I am looking at the Roccat Kain or Kone pure ultra but idk if they will be too small. I use a palm/relaxed claw grip btw. Keep up the good reviews!
@Rocket Jump Ninja Greetings! You have a lot of experience with mice, can you tell me which mouse can replace the Razer abyssys 2014, which will be the same size and shape, I have tried many mice and none of them fit and the Razer abyssys 2014 release has been removed from production.
I just got into quake and I use the razer mamba elite, for some reason I perform really poorly compared to other fast pace FPS games. I'm thinking about getting the razer viper or the zowie S2, which one do you recommend?
FINALLY, thx for the cover zy. i loved the spawn back then, but the sensor is too much to handle with a low tracing speed. now they're bringing it back with 3398 which solves all of its problems.
@@JuL3r Yes, for example I use the model o comfortably, but the mm711 or the viper ultimate hurt my pinky real bad. Its all about shape compared to your palm size. I have wide palms too but medium in length.
I think that line of reasoning may be related to the finger range of motion and the diameter of the grasp, where I think the ring finger is actually doing a good amount of the work on this mouse so the overall width may be less relevant.
I agree with you that everyone has their own shape preference but to say that the thinnest mouse you can handle is the best for esports is absurd. I get that you aren't a fan of the mouse (and that's fine) however you contradict yourself at the beginning of the review vs the end of the review. Aiming is a function of your arm, wrist & microadjustments with your fingers... and having your third finger resting on the mouse can feel awkward at first however it can actually give you MORE control once you get used to it (2 week period). This "3 finger on the mouse grip" is one that dates back to the Logitech Wingman era (which might have been the first gaming mouse to ever exist).
@@vladimirotes5470 Yes, that's what RJN says: there's a different optimum for each hand, but that optimum is the thinnest each hand can handle without pain (sustained even after adjustment period).
What research back your comments about slimmer mice being better to aim with? I have 11cm wide hands and have a very hard time aiming with too narrow mice, losing both control and "feeling" my game. A little wider mouse gives me a better feeling of control. I think its all very subjective.
I'm in the same boat. I prefer wide and short mice. Like m65 or mad catz mice . But the one is too heavy and the others just trash. RVU is the actual compromise for me.
@@wallC_main yes. It's the best glorious imo. But it's ergo. I'm more a fan of ambi mice. I wish they had made the same with the model O-. Only shorter and nearly as wide as the model O.
my hands are the same. I tried the model o minus and my aim was terrible. I realized most reviewers hands are smaller than mines so I rarely agree with mice reviews with mouse feel once I try them myself.
RJN recommends the slimmest that *your* hand can handle; so it's a relative measure with a different optimum for each different hand. Other than that, it's basic biomechanics. It's the same principle as why it's easier to write precisely with a thin pen vs a thick pen.
Hey RJN do you have any recommendations for people with XXL hands? My middle finger is over 9cm and my palm is almost over 10cm wide. I tried a Zowie S1 which I really like but eventually I'd get stiff hand and my aim would get much worse after around an hour of play.
did you make a new song? I haven't heard this one before. Also please, can you make all of your music available? I can only really find like 5 songs on your soundcloud. You definitely make amazing music that I can get behind.
Thanks! I made this song back in 2017 I think, just rarely use it. Can't release music unless it's got vocals so others can't actually claim they own them (music online is a minefield). But I'll do more with lyrics for Sound Cloud or something soon! Working on a few.
@@royisdabest how bout rather than asking the mm series to be something completely different, you go and buy another mouse that doesn't have holes and is wireless instead.
He says one thing always: "Comfort is number 1 priority. This what unlocks your aim potential. " So if it's a shape that's comfortable for people I see nothing wrong in it.
I've never said comfort is number 1 priority... I said shape is most important, but I didn't say for "comfort". I said for "aim potential". I sacrifice comfort so I can aim better.
Shape of Viper ultimate feels very uncomfortable to me but I perform the best with it. So comfort is not the way to go imo. With 18,5x11 cm Hands I need flat, short and wide mice. But they are rare. So I will test the mm720 too.
I still have a CM Storm Spawn...but after many years of use, the scroll wheel started to give up on me, which is the only reason I am not still using it. I used the Logitech G5 from about 2007 to 2013, and the CM Storm Spawn from about around 2013 to 2018...and have been using a Corsair Katar from 2018 to present. I originally just picked up the Katar with plans to replace it with something better but just got used to it. I am definitely going to pick up the MM720 when I get some spare cash. I honestly wish I had just picked up a few CM Storm Spawn when they were only $30.
Hell yee boy, when I get a little more flush I'll be picking one up. I was a weirdo with a mm520 for a minute. I'm on traditional shapes again but woetha shot!
Have you still been using this, RJN? I had the mouse for only a week and M2 ended up squeaking. Replaced it for another one, and 3 days later it has began to squeak. Really like the shape, but the build quality has me a little disappointed.
Sorry to hear ... no, I'm not using these anymore. Cooler Master haven't had the best history with build. Hopefully you can get a replacement and they sort it out. Contact support if you haven't already!
@@RocketJumpNinja Thanks! Yeah, I contacted their support and awaiting a reply. After using a 50g mouse, going back to this Kain 200 is crazy. I didn't know my hand/fingers fatigued until the switch.
Your theory about mice width is weird. Can you explain more? To me this shape seems perfectly logical. I have not tried it but I could see from where they are coming from. The shape is interesting.
Can't remember which video I explained it fully in, but it's like writing with a pen ... the wider your grip, the less accurately you can write, so we use 2 fingers and a thumb on a narrow grip area for better control. It seems to me, from testing 200 mice, that the thinner the grip area, the easier it is to aim too. This is not something I just made up, it's an observation based on what I was experiencing during all those tests. Whether it's right or not ... I guess that's still open for debate, but as said, a lot of testing, so I'm pretty confident that's what's going on. That said, if you can come up with different theories, I'm always open to new ideas!
@@RocketJumpNinja Yes but it's maybe not like writing with a pen. I do practice Badminton, I would never want my racket handle to look like a pen. I know it's a bit far fetched of an exemple. If your observation sounds true a better way to explain it would be to say under and after this much width the mouse becomes impractical. But I am not sold at all on the idea that the m720's shape is bad (never tried it), I think there is still a lot of wild stuff to be tested in terms of shape, I have tested and even tried myself to make a specific shape out of clay and ended up with something I would describe as nightmare. I totally understand the pen idea as I even tried to make a pen mouse 15 years ago (it was also a nightmare because I sucked at electronics back then). On second thought, my badminton racket handle kinda looks like a pen (a big one).
Some players have actually used pens in game and aimed really well with them ... the theory works. It's using a bit of arm, mostly elbow pivot and wrist, and some fingers for precision movements on a pad; they're very similar. Badminton is a whole different story... love that sport by the way, used to play, was really fun.
@@RocketJumpNinja Oh yes I saw some Osu friends with that, iirc the problem with the pen is the lifting part feels weird (can be fixed), trigger control feels weird as you need to press down the pen, and you can only have 1 button, basically button pressing becomes mission impossible.
After trying most of the top mice, this is by far my favourite . if this was wireless this would be endgame. I used viper ultimate, viper mini, g305, G pro, M711, model o.
Ive been watching your videos all morning working out what mouse to buy now this... So many choices! Currently using the MM710 but I can't grip the sides well enough to be consistent with it. Mamba wireless seems to be in the lead right now.
@@RocketJumpNinja Good tip, was only considering the Mamba due to the mouse finder recommendations. I thought I had very small hands until I properly measured them today. 18.75cm x 10.5cm, 3 finger grip width is 5.4cm. Fingertip grip style. I like the MM710 but struggle to grip the sides comfortably, possibly due to the flair where the ring finger sits. Would a DeathAdder V2 Pro be too big? In the past i've used a G302 which I loved but the sensor rattle issue was a deal breaker.
Interesting... yeah I think DA is too big. You might be better off trying Razer Viper Mini if you are ok with the size of the MM710. Otherwise, for those measurements, I'd like to see you try the Endgame Gear XM1, after some use that might actually be perfect for you. If that's no good, try the DeathAdder V2 MINI, that also could be a win for you. Or if you want something a little bigger, try the VAXEE ZYGEN NP-01 when it's more available. The search on the site is just a starting point, but because your hand isn't twice as long as it is wide and you're already used to smaller mice like the MM710, we can lower your hand size to work with the 60% rule. That said, your 3 finger rule suggests your hand is actually closer to 9cm wide, maybe measured the wrong part to get 10.5? Anyway, I just did some searches, try these settings: Length: 18 Width: 9.35 Search Leniency: Low Grip Type: Fingertip If you're happy with those mice after you try them, then you can continue to use those measurements when searching for mice in the future, until you want smaller or larger. If I were you, I'd find a mouse I like, learn the measurements, then just look at the Top Mice list to see which ones are similar.
@@RocketJumpNinja I redid my measurements a few times and got similar results each time. Decided to go with the XM1 for now, it seems like it suits wider hands and has decent shape on the sides for grip. Thanks for pointing me in that direction, one step closer to the "endgame" hopefully ;)
Thoughts on the Zowie ZA13-B? I have 19x10cm hands. I like the Zowie S2 due to the lower height/bump. I feel it would let me hold the mouse better in a claw grip?
Just bought one. I'm using a Logitech Pro wireless currently. Let's see what it can do for 1/4 of the price! I have a dumb grip where i rest my ring finger where the right click ends. So the extra room is welcomed.
i didnt know about this mouse, i saw one for sale on FB marketplace and was absolutely excited to buy it because it is the shape of the old cm storm xornet which was my favourite mouse shape of all time to this date but it was an old mouse with an outdated sensor so I moved on from it. but this I am excited for
I really wish you would have explained WHY you think the "thinner you can handle, the better" in regards to a competitive mouse. Im not sure I understand why that would be, unless you're talking solely from a desk real estate stand point and want more room on your desk, same as why a TKL etc is better.
Yes, I should've said Xornet 2. I updated description earlier. I only just found my MM520 earlier today but the video was done, otherwise I could've compared. I assume it was the same, but it's quite different.
At the end this all comes down to what you get used to. When I bought the viper mini, I couldn't get used to it and my hand kept on cramping because it was alot thinner and smaller, comparing to my DeathAdder.. So I ended up just using the mini for work. At work I action alot of things, so lots of clicks.. took the mini back home after 4 months of using at work and played kovaks and I was destroying all my old scores.. so yeah it's adaptation.
Is there a mouse mod for silent left and right click switches? I tried the Pebble mouse (marketed as a silent mouse) from Logitech at an office supplies store and I loved the sound
its actually pretty crazy they made this mouse cause the main gripe i had with the mm710 is that my hand would cramp from placement due to the flap on the M2 button. unfortunate this isnt a wireless version cause im stuck on my g pro wireless now
@Anonymous ive been holding off for the hope of the original company creating the wireless version of the mm720 that they teased on reddit years ago. but will probably end up buying the xenics titan, although not a fan of the DPI button.
I have my middle finger resting on the mouse wheel and my ring finger on the mouse 2 button when i am playing...would I still be able to use this mouse with that grip style or would it be uncomfortable and not suiting me?
i aim so much better with this mouse then with any other. so i think the "thinner is better for aiming" statement is just dumb
What is your grip type?
Yes you do aim better with it but you will reach a plateau that only thin mice will allow you to cross.
@@TAP-wi2fm Sounds really scientific and not at all anecdotal bro
@@TAP-wi2fm Its all preferance man, i have this mouse and I think that the wider feel is way better
Exactly, it's just nonsense
It's definitely wide, however, with the right grip, it works. Zy's opinion about it not being good for competitive is straight up wrong and ONLY applies to 1 specific grip which HE, not you, is using. There are many different locations where you can place your finger -tips - flats - joints etc. on any mouse AND use different techniques to turn the mouse (e.g. pivot on pinky using thumbtip in addition to wrist turning), so this can certainly be a precision mouse for competitive gaming. It just ultimately depends on your grip style and method of manipulating the mouse to aim.
Agree here. This mouse is a small hand / claw grip masterpiece. I use it over my capetown and my M1 now. It's just so perfect for claw grippers,
agree this mouse works for me perfectly idk why Zy's opinion about it not being good for competitive fps players
Not to mention he's measuring it from the widest possible point, which is a glorified finger rest. The portion between your thumb and ring finger is a comparable width.
Also, he said don't get it for fingertip grip? For me, it's perfect for fingertip. Just don't place your fingertips on the far front edge and you'll be fine. In fact, with this placement, your thumb will be perfectly between the two side buttons.
Big agreement from me, have been aim training with the MM720 and the Xenics Titan GE air which is a wireless clone of it for some time now, reaching Voltaic master scores :D
I bought one out of curiosity and I honestly really enjoy it and I feel like I aim better with this than most mice. Very comfortable and gives no hand fatigue
Your hand size bro?
Just to put this into perspective:
This shape is over 10 years old now, and coolermaster has brought it back multiple times in between those ten years. This is a testament to its popularity and, with all due respect to RJN and other reviewers who take the time to assess the mouse, a review simply cannot get across the uniqueness of this mouse shape. It's really something you have to personally try yourself.
Yeah it has its fan club, but I review mice for competitive FPS these days and I don't believe this has good aim potential.
If it's comfort you want ... well I don't even find it comfortable, but power to you if you do.
@@RocketJumpNinja Rain has cs go's one of the best mechanical aims and has always used this kind of shape. I would be really intersted to see him use "normal" shaped mouse and see how he performs.
@@RocketJumpNinja I cannot place my ring finger on the right side of a mouse as it will quickly cause hand pain from applying any lateral force, but putting it on top gives me very little control of the mouse. (I believe this has something to do with the relative lengths of my fingers and hand structure.) My current best mouse is a super egg shape that I have cut off part of the button and made a finger spot using polymer putty glue. I'm hoping that this mouse will allow me to have good grip on the mouse while allowing for a large finger range of motion although I'm concerned about the second part.
@@liquidmetal9015 shape and comfort matters a lot, you honestly want to put comfort over everything else. won't matter how good your aim is if your wrists start hurting.
@@blakkpatron You must be new to this channel, lol
This will be my next mouse! I already had the xornet 2 and really liked of the shape.
gsotava, que isso luigi kkkkkkkkk google tradutor te pregando uma peça kkkk
Mas eu relação ao mouse, ainda uso um xornet II, o scroll ja foi pro saco faz tempo, mas ainda o uso, nao consegui me adaptar com outro mouse e nem sei qual ficaria tão bem quando o xornet, esperar pra ver se pego um desse.
slv man
@@jsilva-p kkkkkk. Aí foi foda. I gostava.
luigitec, você por aqui!
I have very "square" hands (wide palm relative to overall length), so many competitive, thinner mice have a habit of giving me cramps with regular use, since I'm forced to use a very tight fingertip grip, so I'm glad they're bringing the design back
This is my favorite mouse ever, i've had tons including the starlight, ul2, DA, Da mini, model o, o-, d, d-, and many more
When i bought it i was not sold at all i just wanted to try it, but i insantly fell in love, it is absolutely worth trying
xenics titan ge air
I main fingertip and this is by far my favorite fingertip mouse. I also really don't like wired mice but I'm willing to deal with a cable as well as the bad scroll wheel and buttons all because of the shape. Its the only mouse I've tried where i can pick it up and instantly do well with it. Its also my best mouse when it comes to consistency
Bro, I share this exact sentiment. My subjectively uncomfortable G703 started double clicking so now I have an excuse to buy this mouse. Really excited to test it out. Idc anymore about wireless or wired if the shape is this good!
@@rq9622 how did it go??
@@pav1u To my surprise, I disliked the shape. Returned the mouse :D
i used to have the cm storm xornet and this has been my absolute favourite mouse shape to this date
I don't get why this wouldn't be a "competitive shape". Don't liking the shape is one thing but the arguments behind seems like pseudoscience to me.
Yeah he's definitely wrong. Don't recommend people to get skinny grip width mice if theyre not comfortable using them. You're not missing out on anything.
@@Foxcez wait you are wrong they are missing out on carpal tunnel syndrome and other Injuries
@@Foxcez yeh honestly I have found out that for me the most comfortable mouse is the best I aim with
I’m with you big dawg
Because that is what he can say from personal experience. He personally performs worse with that shape, so he wouldn't recommend it.
As other commenters said, you can only experience the uniqueness of this mouse, the form is one-of-a-kind, and if right for you, you would buy 2 pieces just to have a replacement if one breaks, somehow.
For me this is THE mouse, I have a pretty wide palm, not so long, but with shorter pinky fingers and with every single mouse my palm would cramp up after 1 hour of gaming, which was very much annoying and frustrating, couldn't focus on aiming that much
this mouse is just perfect if you have wider hands like me, the weight and its distribution is perfect, great features and performance, and for FPS use my aim even improved(!) with this magnificent piece of machinery
thank you, Cooler Master
ZY - You don't measure claw grip width from the outside of the mouse in this case. You do it where the ring finger ledge starts. The ring finger rests on the ledge and you can easily pick up the mouse without the pinky involved. This is a very finger tip review. I had been using the Capetown and the M1 before I got this mouse, and this one is just WAY better for claw grip. Better front to back slope than the capetown, and better weight distribution than the M1.
I LOVED the cm spawn way back! fits like a glove in my hand
I read this as "it fits my glove like a hand" at first LOL
i still use my spawn..... literally been the only mouse ive used for over 10 years. i NEED this mouse. but is it the same size as the spawn?? my hands are small
@@Ascendancy- i checked, and the mm720 is 105.42mm x 76.52 x 37.35, while the spawn/xornet shape is 107 x 75. x 35
@@donjenzuss3712 so basically the same!
id still use it if it didnt double click so often
one of my favourite mouse shapes of all time. i really think you should spend more time with it and re assess.
its a fingertip mouse, even though zy apparently disagrees
Do you use a mouse like that in fingertip? Im a loving fingertip fps player. I find this mouse interesting. Because I play with much circular movements with my finger and wrist, this makes my aim very good. I think this mouse could have the perfect build for this. I think I try it out when it comes out.
@@bibabutzemann5661 This is one shape that i would recommend every fingertip player to try out. It can be THE mouse for you.
I was wondering if maybe he misspoke? He said to look at other mice if you fingertip grip, but this mouse has all the makings of a fingertip grip endgame.
@@MarzBigL Yeah makes me wonder too
I use the CM Spawn as a fingertip mouse. It would probably feel better if it were a bit narrower, but I still prefer it to more traditional shapes because of the ring finger rest. It makes it feel easier and more natural to grip, and as far as lightweight mice, it's the only mouse that has one. Every other mouse with a ring finger rest is a large, "mmo" mouse.
this is one of the best mice I've ever used and it has a permanent and special place in my collection of top mice
This is amazing. I used to have the Spawn and loved it. I tried the G305 but it gave me so much pain, I had to sell it. I am using the GPW now, but if this came in a wireless version, I would buy 3 units straight away.
I think they are the same build so same? I tired the G203 and had really bad hand cramps but this mouse was sooo nice
xenics titan ge air is the wireless version:))
just got mine, it's a dream come true (i've been using my little red spawn religiously for like 14 years) such an upgrade! but keeps the same comfortable shape that i am so accustomed to. i'm incredibly satisfied and in love
@David Gray i hope you like it. coming from the spawn or xornet it is incredible. still loving it. i need to buy like 5 lol. future proof myself
I cannot believe your Spawn held out for so long! I had two in about 5 years after which they were completely spent and I couldn't justify paying the extra-premium for the leftovers that were on eBay..... Love the Spawn, picking up this one
"competitive shape" is the most nonsense thing I've ever heard.
He means competitive for the market.
@@carterwiesner9960 no he meant that it isnt for competive fps players. I agree with duo. That statement is complete nonsence
@@jjolllyNot really. This mouse does have a competitive shape but not all do. Some are more for comfort versus good shape.
@@carterwiesner9960 just cause it is a different shape doesnt make it not competitive. Its about the players preference and what they are used to
@@jjollly Yeah buts it's not as competitive
Would love to see your reviews branch out some more. I liked the monitor review, maybe you could do keyboards or reviews of other things too? Like you said, mice are all basically about shape so there's not much to really go over unless there's something wrong with the mouse.
Seconded. Would love to see reviews of all peripherals; perhaps on a second channel? Monitors, mousepads, chairs, microphones, cameras, PC builds, etc.
Why look at different mice for fingertip? just because the thumb buttons are not far back enough? the length of this mouse is so short and it is so light and has a rest for the ring finger. Seems like a good finger tip grip mouse. My hands are 19.5 cm. I really don't like the razer viper i have for fingertip.
I be completely honest here, I bought literally the top 10 of Zy's micelist. And none of them suited me well except the m42 which is imo a bit to small in width and had by FAR the best build quality.
Thought I give the MM720 a try and I fucking love it.
After a few hours, ez +10% across the board in kovaaks + it feels very comfy and controlled while playing up to the point where you forget there even is a mouse. And imo (17.5x10.5cm hands) I would argue that every grip would work on it. Except you have rly big hands.
Yes this is unique in shape but if your haven't found your safe heaven yet. Give it a try.
And yes, the MM720 is a competitive shape! PERIOD!
Hace you tried the xenics titan ge air?
Sorry to necro this but to RJN's point; I've been testing a LOT of mice while adopting fingertip grip (as a lifelong claw/palm user, I am 35 and play Apex/OW) and I have for example both the mm720 and the o- wireless. I can tell within a second that aiming potential using fingertip with the o- wireless is higher than fingertip on the mm720. My results in-game reflect this. I am faster on the o- wireless both horizontally and vertically and more precise. The "pencil theory" holds up here I think. I've gone from DA Elite to Basilisk to Xtrfy M4 to Xlite v2 Mini and now to o- wireless. It's tough for my muscle memory and hand to get accustomed to ambi and small (with medium hands) but it does seem to be better for aiming potential for me personally. I can understand however that people do not want to give up comfort, as that is the most important thing for the majority of people.
Did I do it? Clicking faster than RJN’s reaction time!
You did
Hell yeah
yes
What's your age? ;)
It's the most comfortable mouse i've ever used. I just can't aim properly due to the uneven dimensions of the mouse, my x axis flicks are just too inconsistent. Most comfortable shape, the lightest mouse, the feet gives amazing precision. I will probably wait for the RVU superlight as i was spoiled by the mm720's featherlight weight and that would probably be my endgame.
Hallelujah, it's here!
I just got this mouse after doing your mouse type quiz, I'm an; anchored, straight, hybrid palm, relaxed finger, front, 122 and it fits great.
I understand why he said this mouse was not for competitive. Because many users, using their hand when the fingers get closed together for movement consistency, with the index or middle finger, like people point to somewhere or basically like we use the pen. The 2nd, when the finger get closed, the pressure from the finger to the side of the mouse noticeable increased ( opposite with the MM720 - thats why it is the most comfortable mouse ), so you can adjust the micro more correctly in high velocity. And the last, when the fingers get closed, knuckles dont open widely, you have more space to adjust your movement.
I think it all about the habbit, and the feeling of each users. So, choose what mouse is good for you!
Best mouse I got out of the 50 I own. No question about it.
Dont @ me.
Imagine if it was wireless, then it would be game over.
xenics titan ge air :))
I use fingertip and I love this mouse! It's super good for fingertip! Also I do great in competitive shooter with this shape!
You'd probably do better if you eventually got used to an objectively more biomechanically conducive shape. Try a mouse at 60% of your hand width and as short as possible (because almost all mice are too long).
Actually, I have been through quite a few mice and even left my xornet for a couple years for Logitech g pro and definitely did worse with it, Although better with it then a lot of larger mice. Also, although not being the best I do tend to rank in the top 5-1% of players with my "biomechanically" odd choice. Just because something is better with something doesn't mean everyone will be. Also, I know quite a few people that have used the xornet and did very well or better. Maybe the thoughts people have on how all mice should be and how sensitivity should be low is based more on not trying everything/staying in their own comfort zone? Maybe you'd do better with this mouse? Have you tried? Like for over 100 hours game time?
@@ingwiafraujaz3126 also, to be fair, my hand is 17cmx11cm wide, which means this mouse isn't all that much bigger then the 60% everyone wants, being like 70%. And at 17cm I have pretty short hands making most mice significantly to long.
Thanks for your reply.. i've the same hand dimensions as yours and i was reluctant whether to get this mouse or not.. thanks for the encouragement @joshuabecker1695
I would argue that the actual grip width isn't the full width of the mouse, but the width to the finger rest.
"If you use fingertip grip you should probably look at different mice" - are you kidding? This things was litterally made for fingertip grip and is the best fingertip grip mouse I've ever used
Really excited for this mouse
I picked this up about a week ago and I'm very impressed so far! Going from a heavy/draggy teflon footed Logitech G9X to this shape with a fingertip grip or relaxed claw is soooo comfortable! (19 x 11cm). Both mice are very similar in size and shape.
I really want the same sized mouse but wireless. 10.5 cm is the perfect length for the mouse.
Very happy with my Viper Mini, thing is, idk if it's too small for me. It's my first gaming mouse. But at the same time idk if I would switch if it broke.
I use a fingertip grip, 19x12cm hands, I really like this mouse, feels just fine to me grip wise. But I guess I do have wide palms.
I have 19x11cm hands which makes them also on the wider side. How has your experience been using this mouse since you commented? I use fingertip grip as well.
Playing with mm710 atm and will surely give this a try. I play with fingertip/claw and have issues with nearly every mouse because i have really wide palm..
I was super excited for this mouse as I was a fan of the Spawn. A couple notes I bought the white gloss and I have discovered I do not like the way gloss feels. It is definitely different from the Spawn shape and still very comfortable. My issue with the spawn and why it got replaced by a DeathAdder was because of CoolerMaster firmware that would continue to increase your CPU usage every time you push caps lock which back then was my push to talk button. The song looked promising and I probably would have purchased the satin one, but during my first week of use I noticed a squeak but I don't remember if it was left click or right click. That's still one of my favorite shapes and I would have certainly enjoyed playing with it some more but I've always seemed to have an issue with CM mice unfortunately. I replaced it with a Viper mini and that seems to be perfectly fine quality but it's just not for me so I'm back on the hunt.
In the scale of 0-100% how much do you say this mice differs from Spawn? You see, I'm also a big fan of the original spawn. But back then I don't play any fps competitively only mobas and mmos. Then came overwatch and I kept hearing advice to use ambidextrous mice for FPS. So I switched to Logitech G102 back then, and now I used MM710. Now I have more confident in my aim and thinking to go back to my first gaming mice that I ever had.
@@MarooTK It's definitely different but familiar. I gave my Spawn away to a friend that was buying some weird Logitech $100+ mouse MX Master maybe so I never had them side by side. I was looking at the Razer Naga with the swappable sides just because I like the ring finger rest. Sorry I'm not more help, but I couldnt say anything definitely.
How is the quality control on the clicks compared to the mm710/mm711? Like do they have the same post/pre travel and creaking issues?
.
I think these are optical switches so should be top notch
Got the mouse yesterday, right click creaking...
@@Lychee7 oof, i was thinking about getting it but if the build is anything like my mm711 its gonna be almost unusable.
Will you be reviewing the G-Wolves HSK?
can you disable acceleration via the software?
btw this is probably the most comfortable shape ever for claw/fingertip grippers.
ive had the spawn, xornet II (got rid of it because of built-in acceleration), and currently have the mm520.
I was looking for a new mouse for some time now...
Couple of years back I had an accident and tore a ligament on my pinky. Ever since gaming for 2 or more hours straight was really tedious because my pinky started to hurt a lot.
I've used a G403 for some time now but the mouse wheel broke and it is time for a new mouse. Was hoping to get one that my pinky was finally comfortable with.
The shape of the MM720 is weird, yes, but perfect for me. I'm a palm gripper with fairly big hands (19cm long, 11 wide) and although the MM720 is rather short and now as high as other right-handed mice it feels immensly comfortable.
So I've been using this mouse the entire afternoon now, playing Apex with my friends. My pinky feels a bit stiff, but it doesn't hurt - the G403, which I've had some time now and the Glorious D, which I've tested for the last couple of days would have caused some pain, not the MM720.
And - this might be more due to luck :P but that afternoon I won 2 games of Apex ^^ and the other games went really well, too. Often coming in Top5 - has never happened before with another mouse :P
You guys really need to play a battle focused game that forces you to aim at your best, constantly, to know if these mice are actually better for your aim or not.
Quake Clan Arena 1v1 is the only game I've found that allows for that. The rest is ... as you say, could be luck or a whole heap of other things like no one good was on. I don't base my thoughts on "wins", I base them on how well I'm actually aiming in heated situations under constant pressure to perform in game.
That said, I'm glad you found a mouse you like. 👍
Can you really just measure the bottom for grip-width when there's a place to rest your ring finger on the mouse? It's not like you wrap your hand around the entire 7 centimeters. I think the traditional 'grip width' measurement doesn't work on a mouse like this
Exactly my thoughts, the pinky isn't doing all that much of the gripping work so I think it's placement is less relavant. Although I worry about the pinky still limiting range of motion due to it being so far out, can't wait for mine to arrive and find out.
Nice review. Would you please provide a little more detail on the main buttons? Is there significant pre or post travel? How would you asses general stiffness of the plastic used for the main buttons compared to the MM710/711? Thanks :)
The debounce setting is a bit odd considering the MM720 has LK optical switches, just like the newer Razer mice. Perhaps they just reused software elements and forgot to remove the setting?
Yeah maybe ... and if that's the case, what's going on with the latency? I really struggled getting accurate results with it.
The fact that Mionix does not update the NAOS with lighter weight material or a hexcell design and better optical sensors is almost frustrating because people enjoy this style of mouse and Mionix has the best design in my opinion. This style of mouse shape feels great and being able to keep my hand and wrist entirely off the mousepad gives me better aim control and consistency I've found. From a competitive standpoint, I actually fell out of SMFC in CSGO after switching from the Naos to the FinalMouse Air58. Since then I've tried a bunch of ambidextrous lightweight mice and I don't feel as consistent as I used to.
CM Spawn lovers rejoice!
Just a suggestion, I think maybe you should've measured the grip width from the ring finger rest? Measuring from the bottom can show how far apart your thumb and pinky are, but because your ring and pinky aren't stacked on top of each other like with most mice, I think that there's an argument to be made that your actual grip width is between the thumb and ring finger, with the pinky finger just pushed more out of the way.
The grip width is measured from thumb to between ring and little finger, generally, or wherever I believe the most likely measurement should be, because sometimes it's different to what you'd expect. I take this stuff into account. It's just too wide and I don't believe this shape can help people aim better. More comfortable maybe, but not better aim.
@@RocketJumpNinja Thanks for the reply, glad to know these things are taken into account then.
Hey bro I am a big fan of you I watch every video and I like each of the minor specification you tell . My first question is if we have a bad computer with bad processor and no graphics card is there any benefit having good mouse??. 2nd question is that I want you to review cosmic byte Equinox beta wich would cost much less like less than 1500₹ INR like 20 dollars pls answer my questions bro
Is this the same shape as the original Cooler Master Spawn mouse from many years ago? I am a claw grip but this shape, for some reason, worked incredible for me .... but I do not do FPS so that probably helped. Seriously, I loved the shape almost as much as my original Logitech Wingman mouse.
Have you made a video explaining why thin is good if you haven’t please do because I don’t understand why thin is better
I never understood the inclusion of the human latency test. Seems like an inconsistent way to measure click latency, especially since the margin of error is likely to be significantly larger than the actually latency of the click.
It's to test consistency, clearly.
Not the latency of the mouse.
Bump test is to test the actual click latency.
Fingertip grip or claw grip, small hands. Ninja always talking about 2:1 ratio as perfect. For me its trash. Ideal ratio for me would be 1:1. I want the mouse to be short (for my small fingers) and also wide as hell so i can use fingertip grip more easily.
Are you ever going to review g-wolves mice?
Just received my Model O-, It's amazing, perfect for my hand size. Thanks Zy.
I have this mouse with 20cm by 11.43 cm hands and it feels great! I use a relaxed claw grip with it. Fits like a glove. Can't palm it though as my finger tips would pass the 1 and 2 buttons.
Is it still comfortable, Have you tried any other mouse? Pls reply would help me out.
@@darklight7046 It is a very comfortable mouse but it started to hurt my wrist due to it's flatness. I went back to my G903. If they made it taller and maybe longer I would say it's perfect.
IMO you really could dive deeper.. Just my opinion based on the last hand full of mouse reviews I have watched. Would honestly love to see you dive into the intricacies of mouse shape and mouse grip with each review. If you don't dive deep, it's essentially a waste of time to hear you talk about the advancement of sensors again..
Honestly, there is no reason to watch his "reviews" anymore there are much better reviewers out there nowadays that go in-depth with their reviews his channel is basically just showcasing new products that companies send him.
Hi, just wondering if you had any recommendations on a new mouse. My hand size is about 7.5 inches long by 4 inches wide. I currently have a Roccat Kone XTD which I love but my left click switch is worn out. I am looking at the Roccat Kain or Kone pure ultra but idk if they will be too small. I use a palm/relaxed claw grip btw. Keep up the good reviews!
According to his 60% rule you should get a mouse with about 2.7'' grip width.
@Rocket Jump Ninja
Greetings! You have a lot of experience with mice, can you tell me which mouse can replace the Razer abyssys 2014, which will be the same size and shape, I have tried many mice and none of them fit and the Razer abyssys 2014 release has been removed from production.
I just got into quake and I use the razer mamba elite, for some reason I perform really poorly compared to other fast pace FPS games.
I'm thinking about getting the razer viper or the zowie S2, which one do you recommend?
FINALLY, thx for the cover zy.
i loved the spawn back then, but the sensor is too much to handle with a low tracing speed.
now they're bringing it back with 3398 which solves all of its problems.
Thinner definitely isn't outright better, way too subjective per person
I can relate to what you said. My hands are 10.5cm wide. many of the newest top mice are just too thin for me to comfortably hold them.
@@JuL3r Yes, for example I use the model o comfortably, but the mm711 or the viper ultimate hurt my pinky real bad. Its all about shape compared to your palm size. I have wide palms too but medium in length.
I think that line of reasoning may be related to the finger range of motion and the diameter of the grasp, where I think the ring finger is actually doing a good amount of the work on this mouse so the overall width may be less relevant.
I agree with you that everyone has their own shape preference but to say that the thinnest mouse you can handle is the best for esports is absurd. I get that you aren't a fan of the mouse (and that's fine) however you contradict yourself at the beginning of the review vs the end of the review. Aiming is a function of your arm, wrist & microadjustments with your fingers... and having your third finger resting on the mouse can feel awkward at first however it can actually give you MORE control once you get used to it (2 week period). This "3 finger on the mouse grip" is one that dates back to the Logitech Wingman era (which might have been the first gaming mouse to ever exist).
"the thinner you can handle - the better" is obviously classical rjn bullshit, there is optimal mouse width for every hand
@@vladimirotes5470 It's not absurd. It's biomechanics. It's rational.
@@vladimirotes5470 Yes, that's what RJN says: there's a different optimum for each hand, but that optimum is the thinnest each hand can handle without pain (sustained even after adjustment period).
What research back your comments about slimmer mice being better to aim with? I have 11cm wide hands and have a very hard time aiming with too narrow mice, losing both control and "feeling" my game. A little wider mouse gives me a better feeling of control. I think its all very subjective.
I'm in the same boat. I prefer wide and short mice. Like m65 or mad catz mice . But the one is too heavy and the others just trash. RVU is the actual compromise for me.
@@DietmarViere tried model d-? It's short and kinda fat.
@@wallC_main yes. It's the best glorious imo. But it's ergo. I'm more a fan of ambi mice. I wish they had made the same with the model O-. Only shorter and nearly as wide as the model O.
my hands are the same. I tried the model o minus and my aim was terrible. I realized most reviewers hands are smaller than mines so I rarely agree with mice reviews with mouse feel once I try them myself.
RJN recommends the slimmest that *your* hand can handle; so it's a relative measure with a different optimum for each different hand. Other than that, it's basic biomechanics. It's the same principle as why it's easier to write precisely with a thin pen vs a thick pen.
I aim better with this mouse than any others i've tried and i've had a fair few. Instantly became my main.
I fingertip btw. 17.7 cm x 8.8 cm hands
xenics titan ge air
@Rocket Jump Ninja
could you try out the HK Gaming Mira S or Hati S? Both seem like they could be your top gaming mouse outside the UL2.
I'm curious. Are there any mice that are more ergonomically structured for 3-2 grip (three fingers on top and thumb and pinky on the sides)?
Hey RJN do you have any recommendations for people with XXL hands? My middle finger is over 9cm and my palm is almost over 10cm wide.
I tried a Zowie S1 which I really like but eventually I'd get stiff hand and my aim would get much worse after around an hour of play.
Same situation for me. There are no "competitive" mice for us.
did you make a new song? I haven't heard this one before. Also please, can you make all of your music available? I can only really find like 5 songs on your soundcloud. You definitely make amazing music that I can get behind.
Thanks! I made this song back in 2017 I think, just rarely use it. Can't release music unless it's got vocals so others can't actually claim they own them (music online is a minefield). But I'll do more with lyrics for Sound Cloud or something soon! Working on a few.
Thin mouse better aim just isn't true
I wish they upped the quality on the MM710 and do a revised version (even though they said they fixed QC).
I would like a mm710 without holes, I don't like holes. Too much dust in our house.
@@Kuneho mm710 without holes and wireless
@@royisdabest how bout rather than asking the mm series to be something completely different, you go and buy another mouse that doesn't have holes and is wireless instead.
@@xsct878 Because shape.
how would you like your mouse shape?
pancake
Can you do a review on the Roccat Burst Pro?
My friend had a mouse like that and I really enjoyed this comfortable shape.
What game is that at 0:02 ? Please let me know.
He says one thing always: "Comfort is number 1 priority. This what unlocks your aim potential. " So if it's a shape that's comfortable for people I see nothing wrong in it.
I've never said comfort is number 1 priority... I said shape is most important, but I didn't say for "comfort". I said for "aim potential". I sacrifice comfort so I can aim better.
Shape of Viper ultimate feels very uncomfortable to me but I perform the best with it. So comfort is not the way to go imo. With 18,5x11 cm Hands I need flat, short and wide mice. But they are rare. So I will test the mm720 too.
@@rdmz135 maybe. But thin is relative. Between a 9 cm and a 11 cm hand width are 3 cm. Show me two mice with a difference of 3 cm or at least 2 cm ..
Yup so true, I hate my mouse!
very solid mouse by cm. love it
I still have a CM Storm Spawn...but after many years of use, the scroll wheel started to give up on me, which is the only reason I am not still using it. I used the Logitech G5 from about 2007 to 2013, and the CM Storm Spawn from about around 2013 to 2018...and have been using a Corsair Katar from 2018 to present. I originally just picked up the Katar with plans to replace it with something better but just got used to it. I am definitely going to pick up the MM720 when I get some spare cash. I honestly wish I had just picked up a few CM Storm Spawn when they were only $30.
Hell yee boy, when I get a little more flush I'll be picking one up. I was a weirdo with a mm520 for a minute. I'm on traditional shapes again but woetha shot!
I have the Superlight, Viper ult and Deathadder v3 but always go back to this mouse when Im in ranked
I need a mouse where I can rest all fingers on the mouse and a hump that isn't a pain to keep my hands on. This mouse is perfect
Have you still been using this, RJN? I had the mouse for only a week and M2 ended up squeaking. Replaced it for another one, and 3 days later it has began to squeak. Really like the shape, but the build quality has me a little disappointed.
Sorry to hear ... no, I'm not using these anymore. Cooler Master haven't had the best history with build. Hopefully you can get a replacement and they sort it out. Contact support if you haven't already!
@@RocketJumpNinja Thanks! Yeah, I contacted their support and awaiting a reply. After using a 50g mouse, going back to this Kain 200 is crazy. I didn't know my hand/fingers fatigued until the switch.
Holy %(*() those skid plates are massive that's awesome
Your theory about mice width is weird. Can you explain more? To me this shape seems perfectly logical. I have not tried it but I could see from where they are coming from. The shape is interesting.
Can't remember which video I explained it fully in, but it's like writing with a pen ... the wider your grip, the less accurately you can write, so we use 2 fingers and a thumb on a narrow grip area for better control. It seems to me, from testing 200 mice, that the thinner the grip area, the easier it is to aim too. This is not something I just made up, it's an observation based on what I was experiencing during all those tests. Whether it's right or not ... I guess that's still open for debate, but as said, a lot of testing, so I'm pretty confident that's what's going on. That said, if you can come up with different theories, I'm always open to new ideas!
@@RocketJumpNinja Yes but it's maybe not like writing with a pen. I do practice Badminton, I would never want my racket handle to look like a pen. I know it's a bit far fetched of an exemple. If your observation sounds true a better way to explain it would be to say under and after this much width the mouse becomes impractical. But I am not sold at all on the idea that the m720's shape is bad (never tried it), I think there is still a lot of wild stuff to be tested in terms of shape, I have tested and even tried myself to make a specific shape out of clay and ended up with something I would describe as nightmare. I totally understand the pen idea as I even tried to make a pen mouse 15 years ago (it was also a nightmare because I sucked at electronics back then). On second thought, my badminton racket handle kinda looks like a pen (a big one).
Some players have actually used pens in game and aimed really well with them ... the theory works. It's using a bit of arm, mostly elbow pivot and wrist, and some fingers for precision movements on a pad; they're very similar. Badminton is a whole different story... love that sport by the way, used to play, was really fun.
@@RocketJumpNinja Oh yes I saw some Osu friends with that, iirc the problem with the pen is the lifting part feels weird (can be fixed), trigger control feels weird as you need to press down the pen, and you can only have 1 button, basically button pressing becomes mission impossible.
After trying most of the top mice, this is by far my favourite . if this was wireless this would be endgame.
I used viper ultimate, viper mini, g305, G pro, M711, model o.
Xenics titan ge air :))
Ive been watching your videos all morning working out what mouse to buy now this... So many choices! Currently using the MM710 but I can't grip the sides well enough to be consistent with it. Mamba wireless seems to be in the lead right now.
That's a big jump ... you'd be better off with DeathAdder V2 Pro though if you can afford it, much newer than Mamba Wireless.
@@RocketJumpNinja Good tip, was only considering the Mamba due to the mouse finder recommendations.
I thought I had very small hands until I properly measured them today. 18.75cm x 10.5cm, 3 finger grip width is 5.4cm. Fingertip grip style. I like the MM710 but struggle to grip the sides comfortably, possibly due to the flair where the ring finger sits. Would a DeathAdder V2 Pro be too big? In the past i've used a G302 which I loved but the sensor rattle issue was a deal breaker.
Interesting... yeah I think DA is too big. You might be better off trying Razer Viper Mini if you are ok with the size of the MM710. Otherwise, for those measurements, I'd like to see you try the Endgame Gear XM1, after some use that might actually be perfect for you.
If that's no good, try the DeathAdder V2 MINI, that also could be a win for you. Or if you want something a little bigger, try the VAXEE ZYGEN NP-01 when it's more available.
The search on the site is just a starting point, but because your hand isn't twice as long as it is wide and you're already used to smaller mice like the MM710, we can lower your hand size to work with the 60% rule. That said, your 3 finger rule suggests your hand is actually closer to 9cm wide, maybe measured the wrong part to get 10.5? Anyway, I just did some searches, try these settings:
Length: 18
Width: 9.35
Search Leniency: Low
Grip Type: Fingertip
If you're happy with those mice after you try them, then you can continue to use those measurements when searching for mice in the future, until you want smaller or larger. If I were you, I'd find a mouse I like, learn the measurements, then just look at the Top Mice list to see which ones are similar.
@@RocketJumpNinja I redid my measurements a few times and got similar results each time. Decided to go with the XM1 for now, it seems like it suits wider hands and has decent shape on the sides for grip. Thanks for pointing me in that direction, one step closer to the "endgame" hopefully ;)
All good. This comment thread will get lost, but once you get the XM1, make a new comment somewhere and let me know what you think!
RTS Player here. This shape is the best I ever tried (On Xornet II)
Thoughts on the Zowie ZA13-B? I have 19x10cm hands. I like the Zowie S2 due to the lower height/bump. I feel it would let me hold the mouse better in a claw grip?
ZA12-B would likely be better to look at. But both have a very high bump. If you want a low bump, look into the FK2-B
Just bought one. I'm using a Logitech Pro wireless currently. Let's see what it can do for 1/4 of the price!
I have a dumb grip where i rest my ring finger where the right click ends. So the extra room is welcomed.
I was a big fan of the Xornet... I'll have to give this a try sometime if it goes on sale
i didnt know about this mouse, i saw one for sale on FB marketplace and was absolutely excited to buy it because it is the shape of the old cm storm xornet which was my favourite mouse shape of all time to this date but it was an old mouse with an outdated sensor so I moved on from it. but this I am excited for
I really wish you would have explained WHY you think the "thinner you can handle, the better" in regards to a competitive mouse. Im not sure I understand why that would be, unless you're talking solely from a desk real estate stand point and want more room on your desk, same as why a TKL etc is better.
I gave a bigger explanation in the Endgame Gear XM1 review I think. Might be in the how to choose a gaming mouse video too.
So is the green in the hand size chart means your hands is good?
What is the principal thinner the better? Dont agree at all lol, too thin is just hand cramping
Isn't this just the Xornet 2 with more holes and a better sensor? 🤔🤔
Yes, I should've said Xornet 2. I updated description earlier. I only just found my MM520 earlier today but the video was done, otherwise I could've compared. I assume it was the same, but it's quite different.
wait what?! who's using the middle finger as right button?
I thought almost everyone used their middle finger for right clicking
At the end this all comes down to what you get used to. When I bought the viper mini, I couldn't get used to it and my hand kept on cramping because it was alot thinner and smaller, comparing to my DeathAdder.. So I ended up just using the mini for work. At work I action alot of things, so lots of clicks.. took the mini back home after 4 months of using at work and played kovaks and I was destroying all my old scores.. so yeah it's adaptation.
Can you check out the G-Wolves HSK? It's different compared to most mice. Might fit fingertip
Is there a mouse mod for silent left and right click switches? I tried the Pebble mouse (marketed as a silent mouse) from Logitech at an office supplies store and I loved the sound
its actually pretty crazy they made this mouse cause the main gripe i had with the mm710 is that my hand would cramp from placement due to the flap on the M2 button.
unfortunate this isnt a wireless version cause im stuck on my g pro wireless now
@Anonymous ive been holding off for the hope of the original company creating the wireless version of the mm720 that they teased on reddit years ago.
but will probably end up buying the xenics titan, although not a fan of the DPI button.
@Anonymous that makes sense i guess if its not feasible for them $$ wise. i should feel less bad and just buy the xerics. TY for the info & nudge!
I have my middle finger resting on the mouse wheel and my ring finger on the mouse 2 button when i am playing...would I still be able to use this mouse with that grip style or would it be uncomfortable and not suiting me?