I cried through most of this because not only does it speak to the Jewish narrative and situation so deeply, but also to humanity itself and so many other forms of suffering and otherness. I could write an essay here in response, but more than anything, I just wanted to say thank you. I also really needed to hear this. Thank you for having these deeper conversations. It is so needed right now, for all of us 🙏🤍 Blessings and peace to you and your families, and to everyone who is listening to this. May we come together and find relief in our suffering. Amen
One of the things that is driving me crazy about the response to Israel defending itself is that NONE of these people seem to care about you and what your people have been going through, which to me seems so much worse. Especially at the height of your war.
This interview is profound, it brought me to tears. I'm not Jewish but am married to a Jewish woman and my children are Jewish and we live in the US. For the first time I understand my wife's pain from October 7, really understand it, how she's wounded on a deep, spiritual level. I'm ashamed that it took me so long to really see. Thank you.
@@James-ll3jbwho has? All I see are innocent victims in both communities, their suffering caused by corrupt, aggressive, extreme control, I can’t say leaders because the most notable issue here is the absence of good leadership over a long period - on both sides. The victims are the people …. their lives have no value to these ‘so-called’ leaders. I hope you’re not suggesting that the people are to blame - they are being controlled through fear and have been for a long time. You need to listen to this talk again because I think you missed the essence of it.
@@valtracey6180 . I would never blame the people for anything! And yes I am sure you're right. I'd become so nauseated listening to expertise on this I only heard about ⅛ of it.
@@James-ll3jbYou are wrong. Jews have been the victims of the world. Have you forgotten the Holocaust. A number of my family died in the death camps. We deserve to have our Ancient country brought back to life after 2000 years of Exile, and we have done so. AM YISRAEL CHAI.
I live in Israel and attend the Joint Rememberance Day. Always moved to tears by the closing song ❤. I used to be scared of the protestors who come to shout, insult and intimidate. I learned to keep physical distance, not bring my kids and to really be at peace with their right to protest. Not let them stop me from supporting something that is essential to my values (shared humanity). Thank you for the interview.
Thank you for being a wonderful person. As someone who cares deeply for the suffering of Palestinians, I am deeply reassured that people like you exist! My heart breaks for all innocents including the victims of Hamas. We are all human, and we must unite and stay united to fight for the world that we need, which is a world of justice, peace and security for Israel and Palestine. We are on the same side, fighting for the same truths even if we might belong to different tribes. We also have a common enemy = tribal warmongers who don't see the humanity of the other side. Much love to you @MeganLeibovici
@@reuvenpolonskiy2544 yes, and the IDF solider too. You know soldiers have guns too. Humanity can make choices. We can either continue to vilify each other for past grievances, or we can choose to look past petty tribalism and see humanity in one another.
@@ehsanakbari3185 The problem with the Palestinian terrorists is not the fact that they have guns, but in the fact that butcher Jews for being Jews, just Like their SS predecsors. Should we mix a memorial for the SS soldiers who were killed in the Warsow uprising during the holocaust rememebrance day? I mean why be so tribal about it, lets forget what they did and do to us, lets see the humanity in poor Himler and his likes. Right?
I have worked as a psychotherapist who has specialized in trauma. There is an idiom that says : the only way out is through. This is so true. Rabbi Brous' comments about the need for us to be able to sucessfully address the multilayered experiences of both the Israelis and Palestinians, will require each side to ackknowledge the pain each has caused the other, and bear witness to these experiences.
Thank you. I am part of a small group of Australian Christian women who are praying for peace and justice for the Jewish people and also for the Palestinians. The way you express the depth of suffering and complexity of the struggle profoundly resonates.
I am deeply appreciative of you today. This interview both solidified and challenged some of my thinking. I am thinking I want to find a way to be in the presence of this rabbi. Blessings all.
This was hard to hear, but much of it true. I have lived in Israel and I have seen aspects of the "two Israels." I have experienced the small, plucky "underdog" state that most Western people used to support, and the more "arrogant" Israel that started to inflict exile on others, as was once done against us as Jews. My heart breaks at moments. But make no mistake, I stand with Israel & its people forever.
My Brother Ezra. Firstly, thank you for creating these difficult thoughts. It's been emotionally difficult to imagine two babies: one Jewish ✡, another Palestinian ☪️ and that WE reduced and decided their humanity means nothing--- Jesus watching us---i started to cry while listening to you and the Rabi. We'll have to suffer and pay a price to bring the emotions to the center(again). The devil is real and has found a crack into our homes. Like Job...we must endure and not follow the crowd, and be more than brave. It's not easy, and the tests of GOD aren't simple. I love you Ezra. Thank you for sharing this conversation. Thank you for the Rabi courage to stand alone. I'm counting on all of us. ❤
Unless Eza Klein recognizes the fact that Israel is on the precipice with a realistic potential of a second Holocaust in the coming year, he is unable to assess the magnitude of the danger. Many military analysts believe that Israel could easily be overwhelmed and destroyed if confronted with a multi front war. His claim that three generations ago Israel was a vulnerable weak small State that was a haven for the Jews "that really could have been wiped off the map by its neighbors" as apposed to today when Israel has nuclear weapons and is undoubtedly the strongest county in the region. This is a completely false narrative that dangerously dismisses the very real possibility, ever probility a second Holocaust in the near future. Iran has a massive military with units that have years of battle experience fighting in Syria. Iran's military has taken over Lebanon, Iraq, Syria and Gaza. Israel is completely surrounded with a quarter of a million rockets including precision guided and ballistic missiles in Lebanon with the ability to completely overwhelm Israel's air defences and do incalculable destruction its military bases, power stations and major population centers. Almost every major media organization, including the NYT, have singled out Israel, ignoring every obvious fact mentioned above singling out Israel for condemnation and ignoring the formidable forces aligned against it. The UN, the Red Cross, Amnesty International have refused to even condemn the largest slaughter of Jewish civilians since the holocaust on the one hand, and single out Israel for condemnation in an outrageously disproportionate manner when compared to atrocities of Syria, Russia, China and dozens of other far more deadly warcrimes. Israel has truly taken over as the Jew of the nations with a 21st century antisemitism comparable to that of the 1930s. What will Ezra Klein have to say if there is a second Holocaust? Will you write a new NYT article saying maybe I should have stopped participating in the 21st century antisemitic eco chamber? It will be too late and the victims of last centuries Holocaust are saying Eza don't do what the NYT did in the months leading up to the last Holocaust and remain silent.
@@jonlittle5032So Iranian (& Russian) aggression which existed long before Bibi, now exists only because of Bibi? I’m a longtime defense employee and veteran. You’re full of it.
We must stop dehumanizing one another. We won't address any of this - until we learn to stop dividing one another - by way of religion / race / disability / gender / preference - etc. We all share an amygdala.
Hey been enjoying a lot the content of the podcast.. I have not much historical knowledge on israel, but since i saw some of what happened i have tried to reach some understanding. What i found is that a lot of people are in a state of mind that doesn t seem to let them aknowledge the mistakes on their side and the humanity of the enemy and how people grab abstractions so they can project the hate and fear on a target... I am on the outside(being from portugal) and i have experienced many times being emotionaly influenced by online content and opinion and reaching points were i think i felt hate for an idea , or culture or religion, so i can only imagine the forces at play in the imagination and hearts of all the people involved at one level or another... Having said this it seems that mr Ezra is really trying to fight against the tendencies of tribalism and of dealing with suffering. Seems to me very honest and of all i have beem searching i feel this podcast has been the most rational and sensible approach with the gravity and presence of mind that this situation requires.
@rafael thank you for your willingness to listen and be open. I am relatively liberal and a Zionist meaning I believe Israel should exist however we absolutely must own the horrible things that have been done by some Israeli citizens and governments to Palestinians. And yes, I am afraid owning these atrocities could perpetuate more hate because I’ve watched so many thing be taken out of context or simply isolated by both sides. All of this is even more complicated by the astounding increase in Jew hate in US and EU because I feel even more afraid and more defensive.
I come from a Pakistani background. I have seen firsthand the hate 2 peoples can have towards each other. Indians & Pakistanis are indoctrinated from the moment they are born that it is impossible for either side to acknowledge their role in past violence. I imagine it is a similar situation in Israel & Palestine.
@@clairejeannette8454that split is primarily in your mind, a product of divisiveness fueled by the partisan networks like MSNBC & Fox. The real ideological split is between observant/ orthodox religious people and reform/ secular people. An observant Christian like a Roman Catholic will have more in common with an observant conservative Jewish person like Ben Shapiro than with their progressive Protestants who are also Christians. A progressive Protestant probably has more in common with a practitioner of the reform branch of Judaism, and so forth. At the far end of the spectrum you have the hasidim & Amish.
Thank you so much for this interview. It's been so difficult to figure out what's happening without a side of anti-semitism or racism. It's heartbreaking to watch all the death.
While listening I was and am moved. Simultaneously I can't stop thinking that all the things she is telling us needs to be seen for those in Gaza. I draw myself back to the death Isreal has experienced. But what makes the gravity of Gaza's suffer overshadow isreal's is 2 things. The first is the simple magnitude of it. So much more suffering. And the second is that it is still going on and it can be stopped and the suffering that the Rabbi so tragically speaks of is growing moment by moment, hour by hour. That needs to stop before I can settle into understanding the grief of the Israeli. At the moment their grief only appears to be making more of what it wants me to understand.
Jews for Peace are a great group and might help feel more sympathy for the Israeli side. Israelis are the victim of this ultra right wing group. Also a lot of Zionist don't sound genuinely concerned with the lives of Palestinians when they say no ceasefire. I reached out to Jewish friends to ask if they needed anything if they were all right. I'm no longer friends with two of them because yes we care about them but they these two specifically do not care about Palestinians and to find out was disheartening. But the vast majority of Jews that I know are against the Israeli atrocities
Yes the suffering is just so disproportionate that many people are simply incapable of feeling any compassion towards Israel. Which is wrong. Any loss of life is tragic. But in that one day, Israel went through what Palestinians have been going through for the last half century.😢
@@DVstein You seem to have a profound misunderstanding of the situation. We are dealing with an Islamofascist Nasi population. Whatever you want to claim, that is undeniable. I don't support this regime either but to suggest ceasefire is warranted is ridiculous. You have no diea what war is when people value life so little, and by that I mean the Palestinian leadership and a majority of adults. They literally do not value life over martyrdom. And they are in this situation because their ancestors were jean oh sidal as well. If you are projecting your own ideology, intentions and perceptions on to a drastically different, curated culture and ideology, it distorts your entire understanding of the situation.. The fact remains that a majority of the Palestinian Moslem population are complicit or active in this. They either support Humas or refuse to fight them and rebel. That leaves Israel no choice. And allowing any of the Humas leaders to go free is not acceptable. 14,000 people in a high population density situation is NOT outreagious in the least. Its awful and unfortunate, but not out of the ordinary. 200,000 civilians perished in Syria, 100,000 plus in Yemen. I forget how many hundred thousand in Iraq, but estimates range from 150,000 to near 1 million, depending on how you are counting. The problem is the UN, Egypt and hte Arab world REFUSE to allow the Palestinians of Aza to leave. It's not Israle forcing them to stay. Egypt controls the southern border, they always have. Which is also why Aza isnt any kind of prison, but that's another matter. Why do they refuse? They claim its because Israel wont allow them to come back..... that's their excuse. Any other refugee population in the world would have been rehomed. ANY. All others have in history. This is the only one made permanent refugee population. Why? They are a weapon the Islamist world uses against Israel and the west, and those in their leadership, both the PA and HumasThe Biden admin is dreaming if they think the PA is a reasonable partner for peace. All of them have to be removed. The people that connect them to Russia, Iran, Qater. While the Biden admin plays both sides, getting in bed with the Qataris, who are the biggest supporters of global Islamism, and the propaganda arm of Islamists everywhere. Islamists, not Moslems. This is a religious war being waged against Israel for 75 years. Israel doesnt benefit from a higher casualty total. But the Islamist world, the UN and associated NGOs due. Especially since they depend on the multi BILLION dollar Palestinian refugee industry. Pallestinianism is an Islamofascist ideology, whos founding father was an ACTUAL Nasi, who spent WW2 spreading Nasi propaganda in the Moslem world, who planned with Adolph to bring the camps project to Palestine. BEFORE Israel existed. And their ideology has not changed. This whole generation of Palestinian moslems grew up on a show called Tomorrows Pioneers with Farfour the mouse, I suggest you investigate. I say Palestinian Moslems because 100% of Palestinian Jews, and 99% of Palestinian Christians are ISRAEI citizens. Just like all the other minorities of the region. Prior to 1948 everuone living in Palestine was Palestinian including Jews. the first citizen of Palestine was a Jew named Pinchas Ruttenberg in 1926. Jews didnt colonize Palestine. Thats absolute BS. They immigrated there just like the VAST majority of Palestinian Muslims. MORE Muslims immigrated to Palestine between 1850 and 1948 than Jews. Onlly a few weeks ago, the supposedly secular PA/Fatah released an OFFICIAL statement to its 99.9% Sunni population, reassuring them that the ultimate goal of the complete annihilation of Israel is still the goal. A population where 3/4 support what Humas did on Oct 7. And they even included the famous garghate tree hadith , which has appeared in many Palestinian official documents including the original Humas charter. This is the PA. And if you dont know that hadith I sugggest you seek garghate tree jews hadith. THAT is what they are dealing with in Aza AND the WB. Anyone who doesn't grasp that is being naive. The UN schools, UNRQA, have been grooming Islamofascists in palestine for a long time now. And when I say that, it isnt hyperbole. The UNRwA schools promote martyrdom. One of their teachers was keeping one of the Israeli hostages IN their residence. Weapons caches are found un UN schools and packages. People have no control of their emotions, and they are letting their emotions override their rational mind. It sucks, but Israel can not take another ceasefire. If it tkes 14,000 or 25,000. And if the UN and Egypt would ALLOW THE refugees to leave the warzone, it wouldnt be as big of an issue. But THEY refuse. They allowed Ukrainians to leave .They allowed Syrians to leave. Why not Palestinians? They are using these people against Israel politically. Its SICK. When Humas refuses to allow families to flee south, while Israel is literally calling the private phones of residence in Aza, telling them to flee because their area will be bombed, thats on Humas. That's on the Palestinian people who support Humas. That's on the adults that allow this to continue. Thats on the UN, Unrwa and Egypt. And thats on the marxist media that refuses to show the whole story. But Israel can not partake in another ceasefire. No way. Its the dumbest thing they could do right now. Sorry you dont understand that. And Jews for Peace are a HORRIBLE organization sorry. They ommit 90% of the history in their narrative, like most marxist ideologues seem to. Oh, sorry, when I say marxist I mean "progressive" fake liberals who use specific buzzwords and jargon , like apartheid and jean oh side, that completely gasllight the reality of the situation. Distorting the meaning of words to manipulate people. Garbage organizations like Amnesty international and such. Completely ideologically driven and morally corrupt. This idea that Israel and Jews dont see the humanity i npalestinian Moslems, is just..... mostly not true. Yea the hard right probably do to an extent. But that's not most of the country. I mean Palestinians refuse to even acknowledge that Jews are indigenous, that they have a history there, The reason they rejected the deal in 47 is because they thought they could easily just take everything through war. That's how tand why the "Nakba" happened. Israel was supposed to be 55% Jewish and 45% Arab. But the Arabs refused, outright to live with Jews, AT ALL. They say its becsause the "Jewish" state was getting 56% of the land, but on top of that staes 45% proposed Arab population, 70% of the land was the Negev desert. The "Arab" state, which would have been 100% homogenous Arab, largely Moslem, was getting 80% of the usable land. They rejected becuse they thought they could just take it all instead and jean oh side the Palestinian Jews. TO this day Fatah and Humas DEMAND, ALL land, ONE state, NO Jews. Progressives are being truly ignorant and naive on this. That's why Israel is just rightfully dismissing the idea. As a liberal, I mean.... its blatantly obvious your emotional strings are being pulled, and yo udont know much abut history, war or whats going on there, like most of the Jews for "peace". Their idea of peace is no Israel, because that's what would happen if their ideological position was acted on. Palestinians aren't asking for a 2 state solution. That's the US. Palestinian are demanding ONE state, ALL land, NO jews. Thats a fact. Zuheir Mohsen (1936 - 25 July 1979) was a Palestinian leader of the Syria-controlled as-Sa'iqa faction of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) between 1971 and 1979. Quotes The Palestinian people do not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct "Palestinian people" to oppose Zionism. Yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity exists only for tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan. “Wij zijn alleen Palestijn om politieke reden,” James Dorsey, Trouw, 31 March 1977.
@@jessereichbach588 also I don't care about your made up history that you think is the past or whatever holy book you have as a tax paying American I don't want any scent going towards israel. I don't want my money to kill innocent women and children even if you think they're all monsters or they all don't value life like you do even though you're destroying their lives and killing them. Usually racist say that the people that racist against the rally lives and they're the ones that value lives as they slaughter them I'm glad that you showed your true colors as a horrible bigot
Thank you so much for this. I can relate so deeply to the title. My whole world view has been shifting in so many ways, and I found myself so morally confused. But listening to her felt like listening to my core voice clearly for the first time since oct 7 ❤🇮🇱 My heart is broken from all the innocent lives involved and all the dark that is emerging in so many hearts
Love the show , big EK fan. ….. I never liked the notion that if you haven’t lived through a given time or event you can’t understand it. A better notion is “ those who don’t learn from history are condemned to repeat it”.
An Israeli Zionist colonizer from Taqu (just south east of Bethlehem) once made an excellent point to me... about the so-called liberal in Tel Aviv, Haifa and America..he said: they are okay with dispossessing Palestinians from their homes, farms and businesses in Jaffa, Yazur, Tantura, Qisarya, Haifa, ..etc...but against settlers like me who did a fraction of what they approved of...during the 1948 war. Honestly... i could not agree with him more. He exposed how illiberal many American Jews are. And the Rabbi Sharon here in this podcast..reminded me what this colonizer said 20+ years ago. i prefer to deal with Jabotinsky rather with any of those so called liberal
This is really touching but unfortunately only a privileged American Jew who never lived under a life threatening situation can think it’s the right timing for that. Yes the Tora calling us to do our share in repairing the world but it also calling us to choose life. There will be no Jewish life as long Hamas is existing right across the street, this is really the existing of the state of the Jews or the state of Hamas. I really don’t think she understands the scale of the threat.
This Lady was was wonderful, however, the most startling thing to me was the young terrorist calling home on a smartphone he took from an innocent woman he killed. He was extatic that he had killed 10 people, and he wanted to show his parents the bodies on whatsapp. You cannot fix this kind of ingrained hatred. His parents must be very proud of the monster that they produced.
@@benjamingarrett1175 unless folks Awaken, there is not going to be a Zion, nor a Levant. June 28, 1914 echos should be ringing loudly among the Awakened. Klein in spite of his youth recognizes the new paradigm unfolding.
Many of the Israel military brass rejected this idea that the 6th day war was an existential threat to Israel. In fact, they took it as an insult. Some also believed that Nasser did not want war, according to their intelligence.
@@johnstewart7025that’s my understanding too - think I may have heard it from Ilan Pappe, who has carried out extensive research in this area. It fits in with what others have said too - that Israel got word of the threat and therefore made the first move. We can only really rely on facts that have come under academic scrutiny as there are so many narratives and so many interpretations and perspectives.
Israeli military high rankers also thought at oct 6 2023, that HAMAS is detered and does not want to attack. Israeli military high rankers also thought at oct 6, 1973 that Egypt and Syria were detered and will not attack. Israeli military high rankers also thought that letting terrorists to rule a state In Judea, Samaria and Gaza was a good idea. Israeli military high rankers also thought that it is a good idea to give the Hezbolah terrorists, Israeli territories with possible gaz deposits. Israeli military high rankers, may reject, take insults and say whatever they want, it does not make them right.
Albert Einstein was a Jew and outwardly opposed Israel. He was very supportive of the Jewish people but predicted Israel would do to the Palestinian people what Germany did to the Jews. Israel and Judaism are completely different things. Semitism and Zionism are different things. My son is Jewish. I have many Jewish friends and loved ones, and most of them are opposed to what the Israeli government is doing to the Palestinians - what we are financing with our tax dollars. This is a genocide. Israel is an apartheid state fueled by an ethno-supremacy nazi-like ideology and commits crimes against humanity with impunity because the United States backs them. It is an evil, no matter the apologies people give. I hate the fact our tax dollars have gone towards the bombs dropped on Palestinian civilians in hospitals, refugee camps, ambulances, churches, mosques, and residential homes in Gaza. 11,000 killed Palestinians in 4 weeks, mostly women and children, about 1000 kids a week. If Hamas was hiding in Israel, I don't think there would be more than a few percent of the casualties there are in Gaza so far and I am certain Palestinian lives are as valuable as anyone else's.
don't exaggerate ... 21% of israel are arabs with full rights not apartheid .. population of west bank & gaza has only gotten larger & larger past 20 years so clearly not genocide
While it might have been the case that the creation of the state of Israel was a bad idea. All the acusations you wrote about Israel are anti-semitic blood labels. Its great shame that a Jewish woman have married a Jew hater and terrorist supporter like you.
@@direwolf6234 You do know the population, but don’t know the composition of their population. It’s not exaggerating, the majority of the their population consists of children. The absence of adults and the reasons behind their disappearance cannot be understated. Many Palestinians simply don't get the chance to grow old.
Absolutely right. I've noticed that many people are attempting to propagate and divide individuals into dualistic sides by mixing and confusing the concepts of Semitism and Zionism. In reality, these concepts are quite distinct.
@@direwolf6234 Amnesty international and Humans Rights Watch deemed Israel an apartheid state. There are 2 million people who cannot walk on certain streets because of their ethnicity. They cannot own land. They have different IDs. If that is not apartheid, what do you call it? I didn't exaggerate a single thing. 7000 Palestinian children have been murdered by Israel in 2 months. How many kids were killed in 20 months of the Ukraine war? 660. The numbers don't lie. Israel is committing genocide and their country will be evil until they give everyone born there equal rights.
As I am listening to this podcast, I find myself thinking about events recounted during the Pesach Seder. And how the hearts of Netanyahu (and ulta right Israel settlers) as well as Hamas have been hardened - like Pharoah's.
In Christianity we also study this message, and a “hardened heart” is said to mean a state of spiritual blindness. It is a strong stubbornness that disorients the person and keeps them from understanding what is right in front of them. As a child I recall being confused as to why God would do that, and being told that it was necessary for the universe to unfold as it should. If we can find any meaning in the current events in Israel-Palestine, perhaps it will lead to a better future for the millions of people on both sides. It has certainly gotten world leaders’ attention & the public protests may motivate them to finally impose a solution to the “intractable Palestinian problem”
Hey, Ezta, I was going to ask what a Jew is doing affiliating with the Jew-loathingest periodical since Der Stürmer -- especially at a time like this. But after a few minutes of listening to your podcast, I gathered that the NYT is actually a pretty appropriate place for you. Enjoy the bedbug bites.
The solution is very simple: One state in Palestine. Remove all walls and boundaries and give everyone equal rights and citizenship regardless of religion. The Law of Return would include both Jews and Palestinian refugees. The population would be about 9 million Muslims and 7 million Jews with Muslims having a much higher birthrate. The army would combine Hamas and the IDF. The largest political parties would be the Muslim Brotherhood, Fatah and Likud. The official common language would be English. This would create a truly democratic, liberal, peaceful and harmonious Muslim/Jewish state which Jews could be proud of.
Bad idea, as many of the so-called minorities have a very large anti-semitic tendency. People should align themselves with those who support them and support the right cause.
21:31 “you do not represent me,” A lot of us felt that way when trmp was elected. However, I acknowledge I don’t have the same historical context as someone Jewish.
45:53 my heart breaks for all the children, elders, as well as those soldiers brainwashed to do as their leaders say in spite of the pain, death, and suffering.
Israeli soldiers aren't brainwashed. They are fighting a jean oh sidal Islamofascist Nasi majority population. Thats real. Not a figment of their imagination. But martyrdom and jean oh sidal intent is a figment of the Palestinian religious imagination. And sure, there are a handful of theistic zionists that cause problems. They are a minority.
So many hypocrisies by Jewish extremists. Strangely Ezra repeats some hypocrisies. He calls Israel a "Jewish state" which contradicts the founder of Israel, Ben Gurion, who said Israel will not be only for Jews or any one people. Today Israel is like Iran - a rabid theocracy & Ezra ignored this. He also said Israel was "surprised" in the 6-day war. No. Truth is, Israel took ALL Palestinian lands the UN gave to both Jews & Palestinians. Since Palestinians had no military, its Arab friends attacked Israel's overt land grab. ISRAEL IS NOT INNOCENT.
in 1948 they were told to leave so that 5 armies would drive the jews into the sea .. they lost and as a result lost some land that otherwise they would have had if they had just stayed put and accepted the UN partition .. they will never accept israel in any form ...
‘It makes no sense’ That really says it all - just 4 words and yet the most profound statement in the context here. Two leaders who have lost their reason. Both Hell-bent on power, revenge and ultimately victory. Their emotionally charged followers incited to hatred, blindly following the senseless orders. But even a child knows, when there is a conflict between 2 sides, there can only be one winner, and it follows, that there will be one loser. And even while the winner is celebrating his victory, the loser has already begun plotting his revenge. And so it will happen again, and again, and again. Until the blind followers wake up and come to their senses. The leaders never will, they are gone beyond it. Life no longer has any meaning or value for them, nothing will do except total victory. What is really so sad is that one is leading a community that have already been victims of such a monstrous human being …. how can his people not see this? Both need to be brought to justice - they should be removed from office and charged with their crimes against humanity. They should be replaced by people who have reached a state of reason, who will apply some sense, call an immediate truce and allow the peace process to begin, starting with a compassionate inquiry on both sides. The goal should not be victory for any side, it should be to save the children, ALL the children, and their future. Does the world really have to be held to ransom because a few have completely lost their minds?
Here's the inescapable problem with an ethno-state: IF one argues that one has a right to live in a certain place _because_ of their pure ethnicity - then one has _no_ right to live anywhere else. There is no both and, there is ethno-state or freedom of movement, these two are mutually exclusive, and most people prefer freedom. Freedom to marry people across the river or across an ocean, and to build a life and a family equal to an "ethnically pure" family. Most of us are the children of mixture, indeed all, and are likely to resent the claim, however earnest, that some are ethnically pure enough to have special rights in an ethno-state, while others are insufficiency pure.
You make a compelling point regarding ethno-states. However, the reality is that nearly all of the states around Israel are clear Muslim ethno-states with the sole desire to expand towards a caliphate. And most of those states are objectively hostile to Jews and the state of Israel. Recall the fact that they kicked out the vast majority (and in some cases all) of their Jewish population. Nobody was calling that ethnic cleansing. Unfortunately we need to talk in terms of what is realistic vs. ideal in this crazy world. It really is sad…
@@IN8ture reality is a bitch for sure. I do take the realist position, which is that nations have a "right to exist" only in virtue that they contribute order to society. But this position is not supportive of the ethno- component of any state, because discrimination is neither coherent nor contributive. People cannot be categorized in my view without gross errors, nor ought they be.
There are other examples of people celebrating pogroms against others in modern day. Attacks against Sikhs, Kashmiris, Muslims in India for example, will be celebrated by a portion of Indian society. That is one example. It is different in some ways to what you are describing. But I don't know that its entirely exceptional as you say. It's partially that the geopolitical stakeholders of the Israel/Palestine involve the whole world - the whole world has stake in what goes on there. Real, political and material stake. Whereas in the ghettoes of the world where people are killed the most often and indiscriminately, people just don't care. I also don't understand what the disproportionate opprobrium to Israel is in this regard. What are we comparing to, when we say bad state actors?? US, West, NATO bloc? Ok I agree, completely. But if we are talking about Iran, Pakistan.... well the former is sanctioned, and both have totally disgraced reputations, called Pariahs like Israel sometimes is. This argument can be best made about the Gulf, in particular Saudi. Which is committing atrocities in Yemen and gets away with loads, is feudal and myopic. But it gets away with that for the same reason Israel does - it's pro-America. The other reason Israel gets so much attention in this regard is its apartied - that is very unique and South Africa also got a lot of attention. There are perhaps some other exampled of apartied right now, like towards the Rohingya. But it is not on the scale and mechanizsation of Palestine. The political stakes I was referring to also: If Israel was born out of a time when many colonized people were achieving or close to achieving national self determination, across Asia and Africa... then Palestine is the hold over - a settler colonial apartied regime that is out of date, out of time, due to a peculiar and particular set of circumstances involving a mix of Christian anti-Semitism, the extraordinary historical burden placed on Jews over millennia all the way to the holocaust - and Eurocentric colonialism that simply did not regard Palestinians, Arabs as equal parts human as any European. So what this western aligned annexed territory is allowed to get away with, the extent to which its allowed to treat Palestinians as chattel, as colonial property - Is of grave concern not just to Middle East and Muslims but to the entire global south - and to Western Gentiles it seems to preoccupy a sense of some final garrison, some civilized haven, in the midst of barbarous lands and peoples. As a humanitarian researcher I am knowledgeable about loads of suffering and it frustrates me to no end how people overlook the plight of so many, from Kashmiris to Rohingya to Kurds to Yemen - much of which is comparable to Palestine. But that doesn't change that the preoccupation from the global south is in large part for a material and rational reason. There is an anti Semitic element as well, in addition to that. And I'll grant American evangelicals obsession with Israel is a lot more to do with anti-Semitism and Christian fundamentalism than anything else. Anyway this is just quibbling with some particular points, overall a heartfelt and beautiful interview.
love your show i would like to refute one statement you made you said arabs had massacred jews in every century. my understanding is the jews lived in harmony in the ottoman empire and any massacre that jews endured was always with other minority massacres and the other minority's massacres were horrible and magnitudes greater than the jewish massacres
Celebration in the street? Oh please! Influencers on TH-cam who knew better immediately began drumming up indignation. Their guests called the Palestinians animals. They were all pushing for retribution on that day. Your view is not correct.
It will be a big help when people accept that Gaza and areas A,B, and C in West Bank are jails. So, Oct. 7 was a bloody jail break that killed thousands and left hundreds hostages. Do the jail walls really need to be there in the first place?
Jails have 4 walls. In Gaza and the West Bank, Israel controls 3. Also… “left hundreds hostages”? No… Hamas and other Palestinians brutally killed and stole non-combatant women, children, men, elderly from their beds. Widen your camera lens a bit and open up the focus. Israel is by no means innocent, but the Palestinians and their elected government (Hamas) are fully responsible for and clear about their stated intentions and actions. There will be no peace for anyone if we don’t look at the full situation and indisputable facts, such as Egypt and Jordan’s role, Hamas’ goals, and historical truths.
Hey, to a fact the Palestinians never had an equal partner in a real peace either. Don’t pawn it off all on the Palestinians, Ezra. Rabin never believed in the humanity, dignity and rights of his Palestinian people.
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I cried through most of this because not only does it speak to the Jewish narrative and situation so deeply, but also to humanity itself and so many other forms of suffering and otherness. I could write an essay here in response, but more than anything, I just wanted to say thank you. I also really needed to hear this. Thank you for having these deeper conversations. It is so needed right now, for all of us 🙏🤍 Blessings and peace to you and your families, and to everyone who is listening to this. May we come together and find relief in our suffering. Amen
I am Syrian and going through the civil war, i can relate a lot to what the Rabbi was saying
One of the things that is driving me crazy about the response to Israel defending itself is that NONE of these people seem to care about you and what your people have been going through, which to me seems so much worse. Especially at the height of your war.
Stay tuned...Assad days are numbered...don't lose hope. I am Palestinian...but for me..Syria is way more important than Palestine...
Maybe they should not have started the war. @@twelvecatsinatrenchcoat
This interview is profound, it brought me to tears. I'm not Jewish but am married to a Jewish woman and my children are Jewish and we live in the US. For the first time I understand my wife's pain from October 7, really understand it, how she's wounded on a deep, spiritual level. I'm ashamed that it took me so long to really see. Thank you.
They only have themselves to blame. Never forget that.
Also brought me to tears, but necessary, very powerful interview.
@@James-ll3jbwho has? All I see are innocent victims in both communities, their suffering caused by corrupt, aggressive, extreme control, I can’t say leaders because the most notable issue here is the absence of good leadership over a long period - on both sides. The victims are the people …. their lives have no value to these ‘so-called’ leaders. I hope you’re not suggesting that the people are to blame - they are being controlled through fear and have been for a long time. You need to listen to this talk again because I think you missed the essence of it.
@@valtracey6180 . I would never blame the people for anything!
And yes I am sure you're right. I'd become so nauseated listening to expertise on this I only heard about ⅛ of it.
@@James-ll3jbYou are wrong. Jews have been the victims of the world. Have you forgotten the Holocaust. A number of my family died in the death camps. We deserve to have our Ancient country brought back to life after 2000 years of Exile, and we have done so. AM YISRAEL CHAI.
I live in Israel and attend the Joint Rememberance Day. Always moved to tears by the closing song ❤.
I used to be scared of the protestors who come to shout, insult and intimidate. I learned to keep physical distance, not bring my kids and to really be at peace with their right to protest. Not let them stop me from supporting something that is essential to my values (shared humanity).
Thank you for the interview.
Respect to You. You are standing for humanity.
Thank you for being a wonderful person. As someone who cares deeply for the suffering of Palestinians, I am deeply reassured that people like you exist! My heart breaks for all innocents including the victims of Hamas. We are all human, and we must unite and stay united to fight for the world that we need, which is a world of justice, peace and security for Israel and Palestine. We are on the same side, fighting for the same truths even if we might belong to different tribes. We also have a common enemy = tribal warmongers who don't see the humanity of the other side. Much love to you @MeganLeibovici
Next year you will be honoured to meet the proud mother of the Shahid that participated in oct 7 masacare.
@@reuvenpolonskiy2544 yes, and the IDF solider too. You know soldiers have guns too. Humanity can make choices. We can either continue to vilify each other for past grievances, or we can choose to look past petty tribalism and see humanity in one another.
@@ehsanakbari3185
The problem with the Palestinian terrorists is not the fact that they have guns, but in the fact that butcher Jews for being Jews, just Like their SS predecsors.
Should we mix a memorial for the SS soldiers who were killed in the Warsow uprising during the holocaust rememebrance day?
I mean why be so tribal about it, lets forget what they did and do to us, lets see the humanity in poor Himler and his likes.
Right?
I have worked as a psychotherapist who has specialized in trauma. There is an idiom that says : the only way out is through. This is so true. Rabbi Brous' comments about the need for us to be able to sucessfully address the multilayered experiences of both the Israelis and Palestinians, will require each side to ackknowledge the pain each has caused the other, and bear witness to these experiences.
All the pain was caused by those who intiated the violance.
Thank you. I am part of a small group of Australian Christian women who are praying for peace and justice for the Jewish people and also for the Palestinians. The way you express the depth of suffering and complexity of the struggle profoundly resonates.
A fellow 🇦🇺, and 100% agree. Very informative and powerful.
I am deeply appreciative of you today. This interview both solidified and challenged some of my thinking. I am thinking I want to find a way to be in the presence of this rabbi. Blessings all.
" Peacemaking is our ability to see our own face in the face of the oppressed and our own hands in the hands of the oppressors." ~ Shane Claiborne.
It's astounding how this woman feels more for our enemies than our own people.
Thanks God for you work Me Ezra and thank you Rabbi for your humanity .Great interview. Thank you.
This was hard to hear, but much of it true. I have lived in Israel and I have seen aspects of the "two Israels." I have experienced the small, plucky "underdog" state that most Western people used to support, and the more "arrogant" Israel that started to inflict exile on others, as was once done against us as Jews. My heart breaks at moments. But make no mistake, I stand with Israel & its people forever.
My Brother Ezra. Firstly, thank you for creating these difficult thoughts. It's been emotionally difficult to imagine two babies: one Jewish ✡, another Palestinian ☪️ and that WE reduced and decided their humanity means nothing--- Jesus watching us---i started to cry while listening to you and the Rabi. We'll have to suffer and pay a price to bring the emotions to the center(again). The devil is real and has found a crack into our homes. Like Job...we must endure and not follow the crowd, and be more than brave. It's not easy, and the tests of GOD aren't simple.
I love you Ezra. Thank you for sharing this conversation. Thank you for the Rabi courage to stand alone. I'm counting on all of us. ❤
Excellent discussion per usual ... better than excellent. Thank you Ezra and Sharon ... this is a much needed conversation.
I love your show Ezra, as always I learned so much 🙏🙏
Unless Eza Klein recognizes the fact that Israel is on the precipice with a realistic potential of a second Holocaust in the coming year, he is unable to assess the magnitude of the danger. Many military analysts believe that Israel could easily be overwhelmed and destroyed if confronted with a multi front war. His claim that three generations ago Israel was a vulnerable weak small State that was a haven for the Jews "that really could have been wiped off the map by its neighbors" as apposed to today when Israel has nuclear weapons and is undoubtedly the strongest county in the region. This is a completely false narrative that dangerously dismisses the very real possibility, ever probility a second Holocaust in the near future. Iran has a massive military with units that have years of battle experience fighting in Syria. Iran's military has taken over Lebanon, Iraq, Syria and Gaza. Israel is completely surrounded with a quarter of a million rockets including precision guided and ballistic missiles in Lebanon with the ability to completely overwhelm Israel's air defences and do incalculable destruction its military bases, power stations and major population centers. Almost every major media organization, including the NYT, have singled out Israel, ignoring every obvious fact mentioned above singling out Israel for condemnation and ignoring the formidable forces aligned against it. The UN, the Red Cross, Amnesty International have refused to even condemn the largest slaughter of Jewish civilians since the holocaust on the one hand, and single out Israel for condemnation in an outrageously disproportionate manner when compared to atrocities of Syria, Russia, China and dozens of other far more deadly warcrimes. Israel has truly taken over as the Jew of the nations with a 21st century antisemitism comparable to that of the 1930s. What will Ezra Klein have to say if there is a second Holocaust? Will you write a new NYT article saying maybe I should have stopped participating in the 21st century antisemitic eco chamber? It will be too late and the victims of last centuries Holocaust are saying Eza don't do what the NYT did in the months leading up to the last Holocaust and remain silent.
I agree. The rabbi is wrong. Don't tell Israelis what to do unless you move there and live with the consequences of your advice.
@@jonlittle5032So Iranian (& Russian) aggression which existed long before Bibi, now exists only because of Bibi? I’m a longtime defense employee and veteran. You’re full of it.
We must stop dehumanizing one another. We won't address any of this - until we learn to stop dividing one another - by way of religion / race / disability / gender / preference - etc.
We all share an amygdala.
A beautiful piece of work. Thank you, Ezra, for bringing this discussion to me.
A really beautiful interview. Thank you Ezra and Rabbi
Hey been enjoying a lot the content of the podcast..
I have not much historical knowledge on israel, but since i saw some of what happened i have tried to reach some understanding. What i found is that a lot of people are in a state of mind that doesn t seem to let them aknowledge the mistakes on their side and the humanity of the enemy and how people grab abstractions so they can project the hate and fear on a target... I am on the outside(being from portugal) and i have experienced many times being emotionaly influenced by online content and opinion and reaching points were i think i felt hate for an idea , or culture or religion, so i can only imagine the forces at play in the imagination and hearts of all the people involved at one level or another... Having said this it seems that mr Ezra is really trying to fight against the tendencies of tribalism and of dealing with suffering. Seems to me very honest and of all i have beem searching i feel this podcast has been the most rational and sensible approach with the gravity and presence of mind that this situation requires.
@rafael thank you for your willingness to listen and be open. I am relatively liberal and a Zionist meaning I believe Israel should exist however we absolutely must own the horrible things that have been done by some Israeli citizens and governments to Palestinians. And yes, I am afraid owning these atrocities could perpetuate more hate because I’ve watched so many thing be taken out of context or simply isolated by both sides. All of this is even more complicated by the astounding increase in Jew hate in US and EU because I feel even more afraid and more defensive.
And think about split in the US between evangelical/orthodox Christians and the rest of us. …
I come from a Pakistani background. I have seen firsthand the hate 2 peoples can have towards each other. Indians & Pakistanis are indoctrinated from the moment they are born that it is impossible for either side to acknowledge their role in past violence. I imagine it is a similar situation in Israel & Palestine.
Yes 💯. I have been listening to Ezra's podcasts for a few months and have gotten a lot from them. In recent weeks they've been especially important.
@@clairejeannette8454that split is primarily in your mind, a product of divisiveness fueled by the partisan networks like MSNBC & Fox. The real ideological split is between observant/ orthodox religious people and reform/ secular people. An observant Christian like a Roman Catholic will have more in common with an observant conservative Jewish person like Ben Shapiro than with their progressive Protestants who are also Christians. A progressive Protestant probably has more in common with a practitioner of the reform branch of Judaism, and so forth. At the far end of the spectrum you have the hasidim & Amish.
Thank you so much for this interview. It's been so difficult to figure out what's happening without a side of anti-semitism or racism. It's heartbreaking to watch all the death.
Thank you for this important and enlightening conversation .
yep
While listening I was and am moved. Simultaneously I can't stop thinking that all the things she is telling us needs to be seen for those in Gaza. I draw myself back to the death Isreal has experienced. But what makes the gravity of Gaza's suffer overshadow isreal's is 2 things.
The first is the simple magnitude of it. So much more suffering. And the second is that it is still going on and it can be stopped and the suffering that the Rabbi so tragically speaks of is growing moment by moment, hour by hour. That needs to stop before I can settle into understanding the grief of the Israeli. At the moment their grief only appears to be making more of what it wants me to understand.
Jews for Peace are a great group and might help feel more sympathy for the Israeli side. Israelis are the victim of this ultra right wing group. Also a lot of Zionist don't sound genuinely concerned with the lives of Palestinians when they say no ceasefire. I reached out to Jewish friends to ask if they needed anything if they were all right. I'm no longer friends with two of them because yes we care about them but they these two specifically do not care about Palestinians and to find out was disheartening. But the vast majority of Jews that I know are against the Israeli atrocities
Yes the suffering is just so disproportionate that many people are simply incapable of feeling any compassion towards Israel. Which is wrong. Any loss of life is tragic. But in that one day, Israel went through what Palestinians have been going through for the last half century.😢
@@DVstein You seem to have a profound misunderstanding of the situation. We are dealing with an Islamofascist Nasi population. Whatever you want to claim, that is undeniable. I don't support this regime either but to suggest ceasefire is warranted is ridiculous. You have no diea what war is when people value life so little, and by that I mean the Palestinian leadership and a majority of adults. They literally do not value life over martyrdom. And they are in this situation because their ancestors were jean oh sidal as well. If you are projecting your own ideology, intentions and perceptions on to a drastically different, curated culture and ideology, it distorts your entire understanding of the situation..
The fact remains that a majority of the Palestinian Moslem population are complicit or active in this. They either support Humas or refuse to fight them and rebel. That leaves Israel no choice. And allowing any of the Humas leaders to go free is not acceptable. 14,000 people in a high population density situation is NOT outreagious in the least. Its awful and unfortunate, but not out of the ordinary.
200,000 civilians perished in Syria, 100,000 plus in Yemen. I forget how many hundred thousand in Iraq, but estimates range from 150,000 to near 1 million, depending on how you are counting.
The problem is the UN, Egypt and hte Arab world REFUSE to allow the Palestinians of Aza to leave. It's not Israle forcing them to stay. Egypt controls the southern border, they always have. Which is also why Aza isnt any kind of prison, but that's another matter.
Why do they refuse? They claim its because Israel wont allow them to come back..... that's their excuse. Any other refugee population in the world would have been rehomed. ANY. All others have in history. This is the only one made permanent refugee population. Why? They are a weapon the Islamist world uses against Israel and the west, and those in their leadership, both the PA and HumasThe Biden admin is dreaming if they think the PA is a reasonable partner for peace. All of them have to be removed. The people that connect them to Russia, Iran, Qater. While the Biden admin plays both sides, getting in bed with the Qataris, who are the biggest supporters of global Islamism, and the propaganda arm of Islamists everywhere. Islamists, not Moslems. This is a religious war being waged against Israel for 75 years.
Israel doesnt benefit from a higher casualty total. But the Islamist world, the UN and associated NGOs due. Especially since they depend on the multi BILLION dollar Palestinian refugee industry.
Pallestinianism is an Islamofascist ideology, whos founding father was an ACTUAL Nasi, who spent WW2 spreading Nasi propaganda in the Moslem world, who planned with Adolph to bring the camps project to Palestine. BEFORE Israel existed. And their ideology has not changed.
This whole generation of Palestinian moslems grew up on a show called Tomorrows Pioneers with Farfour the mouse, I suggest you investigate. I say Palestinian Moslems because 100% of Palestinian Jews, and 99% of Palestinian Christians are ISRAEI citizens. Just like all the other minorities of the region. Prior to 1948 everuone living in Palestine was Palestinian including Jews. the first citizen of Palestine was a Jew named Pinchas Ruttenberg in 1926. Jews didnt colonize Palestine. Thats absolute BS. They immigrated there just like the VAST majority of Palestinian Muslims. MORE Muslims immigrated to Palestine between 1850 and 1948 than Jews.
Onlly a few weeks ago, the supposedly secular PA/Fatah released an OFFICIAL statement to its 99.9% Sunni population, reassuring them that the ultimate goal of the complete annihilation of Israel is still the goal. A population where 3/4 support what Humas did on Oct 7. And they even included the famous garghate tree hadith , which has appeared in many Palestinian official documents including the original Humas charter. This is the PA. And if you dont know that hadith I sugggest you seek garghate tree jews hadith.
THAT is what they are dealing with in Aza AND the WB. Anyone who doesn't grasp that is being naive. The UN schools, UNRQA, have been grooming Islamofascists in palestine for a long time now. And when I say that, it isnt hyperbole. The UNRwA schools promote martyrdom. One of their teachers was keeping one of the Israeli hostages IN their residence. Weapons caches are found un UN schools and packages.
People have no control of their emotions, and they are letting their emotions override their rational mind. It sucks, but Israel can not take another ceasefire. If it tkes 14,000 or 25,000. And if the UN and Egypt would ALLOW THE refugees to leave the warzone, it wouldnt be as big of an issue. But THEY refuse. They allowed Ukrainians to leave .They allowed Syrians to leave. Why not Palestinians? They are using these people against Israel politically. Its SICK.
When Humas refuses to allow families to flee south, while Israel is literally calling the private phones of residence in Aza, telling them to flee because their area will be bombed, thats on Humas. That's on the Palestinian people who support Humas. That's on the adults that allow this to continue. Thats on the UN, Unrwa and Egypt. And thats on the marxist media that refuses to show the whole story.
But Israel can not partake in another ceasefire. No way. Its the dumbest thing they could do right now. Sorry you dont understand that.
And Jews for Peace are a HORRIBLE organization sorry. They ommit 90% of the history in their narrative, like most marxist ideologues seem to. Oh, sorry, when I say marxist I mean "progressive" fake liberals who use specific buzzwords and jargon , like apartheid and jean oh side, that completely gasllight the reality of the situation. Distorting the meaning of words to manipulate people. Garbage organizations like Amnesty international and such. Completely ideologically driven and morally corrupt.
This idea that Israel and Jews dont see the humanity i npalestinian Moslems, is just..... mostly not true. Yea the hard right probably do to an extent. But that's not most of the country. I mean Palestinians refuse to even acknowledge that Jews are indigenous, that they have a history there, The reason they rejected the deal in 47 is because they thought they could easily just take everything through war. That's how tand why the "Nakba" happened. Israel was supposed to be 55% Jewish and 45% Arab. But the Arabs refused, outright to live with Jews, AT ALL. They say its becsause the "Jewish" state was getting 56% of the land, but on top of that staes 45% proposed Arab population, 70% of the land was the Negev desert. The "Arab" state, which would have been 100% homogenous Arab, largely Moslem, was getting 80% of the usable land. They rejected becuse they thought they could just take it all instead and jean oh side the Palestinian Jews.
TO this day Fatah and Humas DEMAND, ALL land, ONE state, NO Jews. Progressives are being truly ignorant and naive on this. That's why Israel is just rightfully dismissing the idea. As a liberal, I mean.... its blatantly obvious your emotional strings are being pulled, and yo udont know much abut history, war or whats going on there, like most of the Jews for "peace". Their idea of peace is no Israel, because that's what would happen if their ideological position was acted on. Palestinians aren't asking for a 2 state solution. That's the US. Palestinian are demanding ONE state, ALL land, NO jews. Thats a fact.
Zuheir Mohsen (1936 - 25 July 1979) was a Palestinian leader of the Syria-controlled as-Sa'iqa faction of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) between 1971 and 1979.
Quotes
The Palestinian people do not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct "Palestinian people" to oppose Zionism. Yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity exists only for tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan.
“Wij zijn alleen Palestijn om politieke reden,” James Dorsey, Trouw, 31 March 1977.
@@jessereichbach588 not an excuse to slaughter children. It's monstrous.
@@jessereichbach588 also I don't care about your made up history that you think is the past or whatever holy book you have as a tax paying American I don't want any scent going towards israel. I don't want my money to kill innocent women and children even if you think they're all monsters or they all don't value life like you do even though you're destroying their lives and killing them. Usually racist say that the people that racist against the rally lives and they're the ones that value lives as they slaughter them I'm glad that you showed your true colors as a horrible bigot
Thank you so much for this. I can relate so deeply to the title.
My whole world view has been shifting in so many ways, and I found myself so morally confused.
But listening to her felt like listening to my core voice clearly for the first time since oct 7 ❤🇮🇱
My heart is broken from all the innocent lives involved and all the dark that is emerging in so many hearts
Love the show , big EK fan. ….. I never liked the notion that if you haven’t lived through a given time or event you can’t understand it. A better notion is “ those who don’t learn from history are condemned to repeat it”.
An Israeli Zionist colonizer from Taqu (just south east of Bethlehem) once made an excellent point to me... about the so-called liberal in Tel Aviv, Haifa and America..he said: they are okay with dispossessing Palestinians from their homes, farms and businesses in Jaffa, Yazur, Tantura, Qisarya, Haifa, ..etc...but against settlers like me who did a fraction of what they approved of...during the 1948 war.
Honestly... i could not agree with him more. He exposed how illiberal many American Jews are. And the Rabbi Sharon here in this podcast..reminded me what this colonizer said 20+ years ago.
i prefer to deal with Jabotinsky rather with any of those so called liberal
This is really touching but unfortunately only a privileged American Jew who never lived under a life threatening situation can think it’s the right timing for that. Yes the Tora calling us to do our share in repairing the world but it also calling us to choose life. There will be no Jewish life as long Hamas is existing right across the street, this is really the existing of the state of the Jews or the state of Hamas. I really don’t think she understands the scale of the threat.
This Lady was was wonderful, however, the most startling thing to me was the young terrorist calling home on a smartphone he took from an innocent woman he killed. He was extatic that he had killed 10 people, and he wanted to show his parents the bodies on whatsapp. You cannot fix this kind of ingrained hatred. His parents must be very proud of the monster that they produced.
rabbi hit the nail right on the head, the total collapse of empathy is the curse of our time, and the rebuilding of empathy is our life's work
❤thank you , spot on , I’ve been hard on you , but this has changed my mind . Complexity of the Problem remains , it’s a “ very bad” neighborhood
Amazing and touching
So deeply beautiful. Thank you for sharing.
Klein is a visionary Genius with the Heart of Spiritual Astronaut.
He is unlike everyone else in the media.
@@benjamingarrett1175 unless folks Awaken, there is not going to be a Zion, nor a Levant.
June 28, 1914 echos should be ringing loudly among the Awakened.
Klein in spite of his youth recognizes the new paradigm unfolding.
Klein is an arogant fool, who speaks with a fool confidence about things he dont know
Thank you so much. Great interview with a wonderful woman.
Iranians also protested in the same way or more as Israelies , but the people were violently put down by the Iranian government
Which is probably why a growing majority of young Iranians today wave Israeli flags, and shout F#$# Gaza".
Many of the Israel military brass rejected this idea that the 6th day war was an existential threat to Israel. In fact, they took it as an insult. Some also believed that Nasser did not want war, according to their intelligence.
I thought Israel launched a pre-emptive strike to counter a pending assault. How inaccurate is that?
@@johnstewart7025that’s my understanding too - think I may have heard it from Ilan Pappe, who has carried out extensive research in this area. It fits in with what others have said too - that Israel got word of the threat and therefore made the first move. We can only really rely on facts that have come under academic scrutiny as there are so many narratives and so many interpretations and perspectives.
Israeli military high rankers also thought at oct 6 2023, that HAMAS is detered and does not want to attack.
Israeli military high rankers also thought at oct 6, 1973 that Egypt and Syria were detered and will not attack.
Israeli military high rankers also thought that letting terrorists to rule a state In Judea, Samaria and Gaza was a good idea.
Israeli military high rankers also thought that it is a good idea to give the Hezbolah terrorists, Israeli territories with possible gaz deposits.
Israeli military high rankers, may reject, take insults and say whatever they want, it does not make them right.
Thanks for this podcast, I agree on one sentence on finding humanity back in this crazy situation
Albert Einstein was a Jew and outwardly opposed Israel. He was very supportive of the Jewish people but predicted Israel would do to the Palestinian people what Germany did to the Jews.
Israel and Judaism are completely different things. Semitism and Zionism are different things. My son is Jewish. I have many Jewish friends and loved ones, and most of them are opposed to what the Israeli government is doing to the Palestinians - what we are financing with our tax dollars.
This is a genocide.
Israel is an apartheid state fueled by an ethno-supremacy nazi-like ideology and commits crimes against humanity with impunity because the United States backs them. It is an evil, no matter the apologies people give.
I hate the fact our tax dollars have gone towards the bombs dropped on Palestinian civilians in hospitals, refugee camps, ambulances, churches, mosques, and residential homes in Gaza.
11,000 killed Palestinians in 4 weeks, mostly women and children, about 1000 kids a week.
If Hamas was hiding in Israel, I don't think there would be more than a few percent of the casualties there are in Gaza so far and I am certain Palestinian lives are as valuable as anyone else's.
don't exaggerate ... 21% of israel are arabs with full rights not apartheid .. population of west bank & gaza has only gotten larger & larger past 20 years so clearly not genocide
While it might have been the case that the creation of the state of Israel was a bad idea.
All the acusations you wrote about Israel are anti-semitic blood labels.
Its great shame that a Jewish woman have married a Jew hater and terrorist supporter like you.
@@direwolf6234 You do know the population, but don’t know the composition of their population. It’s not exaggerating, the majority of the their population consists of children. The absence of adults and the reasons behind their disappearance cannot be understated. Many Palestinians simply don't get the chance to grow old.
Absolutely right. I've noticed that many people are attempting to propagate and divide individuals into dualistic sides by mixing and confusing the concepts of Semitism and Zionism. In reality, these concepts are quite distinct.
@@direwolf6234 Amnesty international and Humans Rights Watch deemed Israel an apartheid state. There are 2 million people who cannot walk on certain streets because of their ethnicity. They cannot own land. They have different IDs. If that is not apartheid, what do you call it? I didn't exaggerate a single thing.
7000 Palestinian children have been murdered by Israel in 2 months. How many kids were killed in 20 months of the Ukraine war? 660.
The numbers don't lie. Israel is committing genocide and their country will be evil until they give everyone born there equal rights.
Beautiful and profound.
As I am listening to this podcast, I find myself thinking about events recounted during the Pesach Seder. And how the hearts of Netanyahu (and ulta right Israel settlers) as well as Hamas have been hardened - like Pharoah's.
In Christianity we also study this message, and a “hardened heart” is said to mean a state of spiritual blindness. It is a strong stubbornness that disorients the person and keeps them from understanding what is right in front of them.
As a child I recall being confused as to why God would do that, and being told that it was necessary for the universe to unfold as it should. If we can find any meaning in the current events in Israel-Palestine, perhaps it will lead to a better future for the millions of people on both sides. It has certainly gotten world leaders’ attention & the public protests may motivate them to finally impose a solution to the “intractable Palestinian problem”
I wonder if, when she was bearing sacred witness at the kibbutz, if she could hear the bombs falling on Gaza.
Hey, Ezta, I was going to ask what a Jew is doing affiliating with the Jew-loathingest periodical since Der Stürmer -- especially at a time like this. But after a few minutes of listening to your podcast, I gathered that the NYT is actually a pretty appropriate place for you. Enjoy the bedbug bites.
The solution is very simple: One state in Palestine. Remove all walls and boundaries and give everyone equal rights and citizenship regardless of religion. The Law of Return would include both Jews and Palestinian refugees. The population would be about 9 million Muslims and 7 million Jews with Muslims having a much higher birthrate. The army would combine Hamas and the IDF. The largest political parties would be the Muslim Brotherhood, Fatah and Likud. The official common language would be English. This would create a truly democratic, liberal, peaceful and harmonious Muslim/Jewish state which Jews could be proud of.
Your kind speak from the safety of your Manhattan penthouse
Suggestion: embrace the fact you are a minority and align yourself with other minorities. Recognize the oppression of others. United.
Bad idea, as many of the so-called minorities have a very large anti-semitic tendency.
People should align themselves with those who support them and support the right cause.
23:39 “all people are fundamentally equal.”book of genesis.
21:31 “you do not represent me,”
A lot of us felt that way when trmp was elected. However, I acknowledge I don’t have the same historical context as someone Jewish.
It's not simple! I don't know Ta-Nehisi Coates said it is after visiting this summer.
45:53 my heart breaks for all the children, elders, as well as those soldiers brainwashed to do as their leaders say in spite of the pain, death, and suffering.
Israeli soldiers aren't brainwashed. They are fighting a jean oh sidal Islamofascist Nasi majority population. Thats real. Not a figment of their imagination. But martyrdom and jean oh sidal intent is a figment of the Palestinian religious imagination. And sure, there are a handful of theistic zionists that cause problems. They are a minority.
Another interesting utopian testament which completely ignores human incentives and decision making abilities.
Nice work.
Love your humor!
Our "shared sens of humanity" seems to be vanishing !!!
So many hypocrisies by Jewish extremists. Strangely Ezra repeats some hypocrisies. He calls Israel a "Jewish state" which contradicts the founder of Israel, Ben Gurion, who said Israel will not be only for Jews or any one people. Today Israel is like Iran - a rabid theocracy & Ezra ignored this. He also said Israel was "surprised" in the 6-day war. No. Truth is, Israel took ALL Palestinian lands the UN gave to both Jews & Palestinians. Since Palestinians had no military, its Arab friends attacked Israel's overt land grab. ISRAEL IS NOT INNOCENT.
in 1948 they were told to leave so that 5 armies would drive the jews into the sea .. they lost and as a result lost some land that otherwise they would have had if they had just stayed put and accepted the UN partition .. they will never accept israel in any form ...
It's not like Iran. A rabid theocracy with Pride parades? I don't think so.
Somehow you managed to say more bullshit then Ezra Klein, that is impressive, is there any award for such an achivment?
46:32 Amen!
‘It makes no sense’
That really says it all - just 4 words and yet the most profound statement in the context here.
Two leaders who have lost their reason.
Both Hell-bent on power, revenge and ultimately victory. Their emotionally charged followers incited to hatred, blindly following the senseless orders.
But even a child knows, when there is a conflict between 2 sides, there can only be one winner, and it follows, that there will be one loser. And even while the winner is celebrating his victory, the loser has already begun plotting his revenge. And so it will happen again, and again, and again. Until the blind followers wake up and come to their senses.
The leaders never will, they are gone beyond it. Life no longer has any meaning or value for them, nothing will do except total victory.
What is really so sad is that one is leading a community that have already been victims of such a monstrous human being …. how can his people not see this?
Both need to be brought to justice - they should be removed from office and charged with their crimes against humanity.
They should be replaced by people who have reached a state of reason, who will apply some sense, call an immediate truce and allow the peace process to begin, starting with a compassionate inquiry on both sides. The goal should not be victory for any side, it should be to save the children, ALL the children, and their future.
Does the world really have to be held to ransom because a few have completely lost their minds?
Interesting
Here's the inescapable problem with an ethno-state: IF one argues that one has a right to live in a certain place _because_ of their pure ethnicity - then one has _no_ right to live anywhere else. There is no both and, there is ethno-state or freedom of movement, these two are mutually exclusive, and most people prefer freedom. Freedom to marry people across the river or across an ocean, and to build a life and a family equal to an "ethnically pure" family. Most of us are the children of mixture, indeed all, and are likely to resent the claim, however earnest, that some are ethnically pure enough to have special rights in an ethno-state, while others are insufficiency pure.
when 21% of israel are arabs (blacks in US = 13%) it is clearly not an ethno-state ...
You make a compelling point regarding ethno-states. However, the reality is that nearly all of the states around Israel are clear Muslim ethno-states with the sole desire to expand towards a caliphate. And most of those states are objectively hostile to Jews and the state of Israel. Recall the fact that they kicked out the vast majority (and in some cases all) of their Jewish population. Nobody was calling that ethnic cleansing. Unfortunately we need to talk in terms of what is realistic vs. ideal in this crazy world. It really is sad…
@@IN8ture reality is a bitch for sure. I do take the realist position, which is that nations have a "right to exist" only in virtue that they contribute order to society. But this position is not supportive of the ethno- component of any state, because discrimination is neither coherent nor contributive. People cannot be categorized in my view without gross errors, nor ought they be.
There are other examples of people celebrating pogroms against others in modern day. Attacks against Sikhs, Kashmiris, Muslims in India for example, will be celebrated by a portion of Indian society. That is one example. It is different in some ways to what you are describing. But I don't know that its entirely exceptional as you say. It's partially that the geopolitical stakeholders of the Israel/Palestine involve the whole world - the whole world has stake in what goes on there. Real, political and material stake. Whereas in the ghettoes of the world where people are killed the most often and indiscriminately, people just don't care. I also don't understand what the disproportionate opprobrium to Israel is in this regard. What are we comparing to, when we say bad state actors?? US, West, NATO bloc? Ok I agree, completely. But if we are talking about Iran, Pakistan.... well the former is sanctioned, and both have totally disgraced reputations, called Pariahs like Israel sometimes is. This argument can be best made about the Gulf, in particular Saudi. Which is committing atrocities in Yemen and gets away with loads, is feudal and myopic. But it gets away with that for the same reason Israel does - it's pro-America. The other reason Israel gets so much attention in this regard is its apartied - that is very unique and South Africa also got a lot of attention. There are perhaps some other exampled of apartied right now, like towards the Rohingya. But it is not on the scale and mechanizsation of Palestine. The political stakes I was referring to also: If Israel was born out of a time when many colonized people were achieving or close to achieving national self determination, across Asia and Africa... then Palestine is the hold over - a settler colonial apartied regime that is out of date, out of time, due to a peculiar and particular set of circumstances involving a mix of Christian anti-Semitism, the extraordinary historical burden placed on Jews over millennia all the way to the holocaust - and Eurocentric colonialism that simply did not regard Palestinians, Arabs as equal parts human as any European. So what this western aligned annexed territory is allowed to get away with, the extent to which its allowed to treat Palestinians as chattel, as colonial property - Is of grave concern not just to Middle East and Muslims but to the entire global south - and to Western Gentiles it seems to preoccupy a sense of some final garrison, some civilized haven, in the midst of barbarous lands and peoples. As a humanitarian researcher I am knowledgeable about loads of suffering and it frustrates me to no end how people overlook the plight of so many, from Kashmiris to Rohingya to Kurds to Yemen - much of which is comparable to Palestine. But that doesn't change that the preoccupation from the global south is in large part for a material and rational reason. There is an anti Semitic element as well, in addition to that. And I'll grant American evangelicals obsession with Israel is a lot more to do with anti-Semitism and Christian fundamentalism than anything else. Anyway this is just quibbling with some particular points, overall a heartfelt and beautiful interview.
love your show i would like to refute one statement you made you said arabs had massacred jews in every century. my understanding is the jews lived in harmony in the ottoman empire and any massacre that jews endured was always with other minority massacres and the other minority's massacres were horrible and magnitudes greater than the jewish massacres
12/8 Now I have hope. I pray for peace to come to all our hearts.
These people are the enemy
18:54, 31:55
Sad b.s.😢
Celebration in the street? Oh please! Influencers on TH-cam who knew better immediately began drumming up indignation. Their guests called the Palestinians animals. They were all pushing for retribution on that day. Your view is not correct.
☮☮🕊🕊☯☯🙏🙏
It will be a big help when people accept that Gaza and areas A,B, and C in West Bank are jails. So, Oct. 7 was a bloody jail break that killed thousands and left hundreds hostages. Do the jail walls really need to be there in the first place?
are the eyptians & jordanians also jailers ?? are their borders open ??
Jails have 4 walls. In Gaza and the West Bank, Israel controls 3.
Also… “left hundreds hostages”? No… Hamas and other Palestinians brutally killed and stole non-combatant women, children, men, elderly from their beds.
Widen your camera lens a bit and open up the focus. Israel is by no means innocent, but the Palestinians and their elected government (Hamas) are fully responsible for and clear about their stated intentions and actions.
There will be no peace for anyone if we don’t look at the full situation and indisputable facts, such as Egypt and Jordan’s role, Hamas’ goals, and historical truths.
Are you kidding?
Hey, to a fact the Palestinians never had an equal partner in a real peace either. Don’t pawn it off all on the Palestinians, Ezra. Rabin never believed in the humanity, dignity and rights of his Palestinian people.
victimIZERS, a good word for them.
You are trying to therd a needle that is unthrerdable!
Why?
thread?
Masters of deceiving people and masters of deception