TL;DR: Blame Biden
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 พ.ย. 2024
- The Democratic Party needs to take a look in the mirror, and fast. This week, our old friend Lydia Polgreen joins the hosts to dissect what went wrong for Democrats, and what kind of leadership the party needs to win back voters in Trump’s America.
Plus, something to do other than doomscrolling.
(A full transcript of this audio essay will be available within 24 hours of publication in the audio player above.)
Recommended in this episode:
• “A Party of Prigs and Pontificators Suffers a Humiliating Defeat (www.nytimes.co...) ” by Bret Stephens
• “Stop Pretending Trump Is Not Who We Are (www.nytimes.co...) ” by Carlos Lozada
• Toshi Reagon (toshireagon.com/)
Thoughts about the show? Email us at matterofopinion@nytimes.com or leave a voicemail at (212) 556-7440.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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TL;DR: Blame the Democratic Party. Stop trying to find a scapegoat and take a honest internal look at the structure as a whole. I did not vote red, but I’m not surprised at this win.
As soon as they were forced to admit theyd been lyimg about bidens health for a year+ it was over. Like you I didnt vote trump, but it was obvious he would win as soon as they picked Harris for us.
Trump appeals to unhappy people,
and America is FULL of unhappy Americans.
Institutions are like people. When they are too fragile to take criticism or self-reflect they become unbearable
Blame them for rewarding the consultant class, win or lose, and crushing the Occupy movement as well as Bernie's chances at becoming president, TWICE!!
They would rather fight and destroy members of the own coalition/party that are on the left, who are actually popular and support wildly popular ideas, than the Republicans.
@@godmuva8944 I’m not either-there is actually a global anti-incumbent sentiment out there right now.
Zero self reflection that they had a change candidate in Bernie Sanders but slashed his achilles every step of the way.
Or Willamson, or Phillips, but they sabatoged their own primary syetem AGAIN
They literally blame the dems not having a proper choice in their candidate since 2008, listen for once
Saying Bernie Sanders, a self-avowed democratric socialist, could take the election where the entire electorate drifted to the right is political flat-earthism. It's not just garden variety idiocy, it's useful idiocy to republicans.
He gets smashed in every primary (and by all means try again) not because he was sabotaged but because his platform is extremely unpopular outside of reddit.
Bernie would have lost in an avalanche though.
@@donkeybus Williamson and Phillips dropped out because their vote share was negligible. Get real.
Listening to the journalists and analysts talk over these few days, and hearing all of these pompous mental gymnastics that are completely besides the true points, just shows how deluded and just completely insides their own bubbles they are.
absolutely ... they pontificate for months .. get everything wrong .. and never lose their well paying jobs ...
You don’t know the true points either. You’re just gloating.
Yeah, can I guess you voted for President Trump? lol
@@direwolf6234they literally predicted Trump winning, are you high?
You know comments like this would have a lot more bite to them if you actually pointed out specific examples of what you’re referring to
Y'all screwed Bernie and now you feel the consequences. You thought you knew better. YOU DID NOT.
Bernie was not screwed. Bernie lost by rules that had been around for decades. He lost bc he didn't get enough votes. Stop projecting. This is the problem with progressives. You think that America as a whole matches your views. This election should illustrate how false that is. Said btw as a lifeling D
Fr, this all goes back to the 2016 coronation of Clinton.
Bernie had the problematic 'Bernie Bros' who were openly misogynistic to Hillary. No thanks.
You guys are not as right as you think you are. Gloat while you can, but also read a book while you’re at it.
Truepenny, Love Bernie, and AOC, but apart from a voting section* (who think Hamas is "good") more Americans are like Trump than either Kamala, Joe; And hate Bernie and AOC. Tragic, but true. 😞
No-body, who voted now, can be unaware who TFG is - and they like it.
* Foolish pro-Hamas Muslims will get an unpleasant surprise from their success.
But long-term, if painfully, it may be his one good move for ME peace.
(Only If his Kremlin boss agrees - 'cos conflict helps his anti-democracy plans)
Oh my. You folks are not living on my planet.
Nah. You're just in your little red religious retiree bubble 😂
@@Brendonherring522as opposed to your talmudic bubble?
I’m hoping Pfizer comes out with a TDS vaccine for these people.
Enjoy your four years of Trump, bud
@@Agent_Banana11 what?
Bernie has some ideas of what went wrong if the democrats on the podcast can’t think of anything.
Those who voted for Trump would never in a million years voted for Bernie.
Oh, FFS! She lost by 250,000 in the Blue Wall because Democrats didn't turn out. She ran a horrible campaign to the right post-convention with a weak economic message in a year when the economy was front + center. She sidelined popular Walz in favor of hated Cheney. "Democracy" as a message will only win if people see Democracy as delivering on their daily lives.
Waltz was popular? With who?
@@reubenhandel210 whom
American economy on every metric, best in the struggling world!
You're all in for a rude shock.
@@reubenhandel210of the four people on the ticket Walz has the highest approval rating, which is clearly what they’re referring to
I agree with the Cheney thing, however Walz was out simultaneously.
The dems don’t play identity politics? Sorry what??? The lady on this podcast is just one of the dumbest
Not both, though. The other one had good observations
Her accent and speech alone tells me exactly where her sanctimonious head is located.
The lady is indicative as to why they lost 2024, and will continue to lose the more they dumb down.
I love that we all know which lady. She sounded barely on the edge of control and cannot see the forest for the trees. In many ways she’s the archetype that many voted against this election.
@@aurelianfan the minute she said "as much I want to believe what a Connecticut Yankee who doesn't go out and report like I do" I knew there was no reasoning with this person. like lady why are you passively aggressively attacking this man, he's just having a conversation with you and all you are saying is "well I know best" which is exactly what led the Democrats to lose in the first place, they don't listen
Nah, I'm blaming you for pushing Hillary Clinton over Bernie. But sure I guess NOW let's be critical of the democrats fuckin whatever
These people encapsulate why Harris lost. What absolute snobbery and condescending nonsense!!!
still not listening still not listening still not listeningstillnotlisteningstillnotlistening
The female journalist sounds like she wants to speak to the manager .
This is really kind of useless.
Not a shred of self reflection. Zero accountability. Blame everything and everyone else for the loss.
Exactly, they never mention the media covering up Biden's dementia for years
for a podcast about the dems failures they do spend way too much time talking about trump and the right.
I bet we'll find out that Walz wanted a more populist approach and he was over-ruled post- convention, after Starmer's political people showed up.
Starmer couldn't be content with wrecking a progressive movement in one country could he
Starmer? The DNC's own leadership is perfectly able and willing to quash their populist left-wing all on their own.
I think we’ll find that Kamala also wanted a more populist approach, but was not allowed to clash with Biden.
@@alephmale3171 I think we'll find that Kamala never wanted anything because she is a completely empty husk with no real beliefs except for her own ambition
In what reality does Britain set US politics?? Thats not how our relationship has worked in 100 years.
Lydia is absolutely detached from reality here
Leave Brandon out of this you have no one to blame execpt yourself
It's all of the above imo. Brandon, cackles, her staff, all at fault.
Blah blah blah libz
We all know Brandon voted for Donald, he had the happiest smile on his face in four years. Glad to see he'll finally retire.
Leave Brandon out of all of this, he was just some kid that won a car race.
Put on your big boy pants and simply say the old man's actual name.
Democrats need to stop being afraid of primaries...
Absolutely. Look how brutal Trump is during the primaries and even Ted Cruz and Ron DeSantis will still line up behind him.
Google 1972 Presidential election, please.
Haven't had one since 2008. It's just powerful people in the party picking the candidates.
@@conor2439 I voted for Bernie in the 2016 primary, but he lost fair and square.
@@vinista256 He lost but it wasn't fair and square. The DNC and the Clinton campaign had cut an unfair deal that disadvantaged Sanders. In exchange for Clinton’s help in fundraising, she and her staff were given broad approval and control of the party committee well before she was the formal nominee.
The tone and direction of this discussion is totally off. NYT is so detached from reality.
I think Democrats do present a vision of their ideal world. The problem is, that ideal world is essentially California. Which is currently facing a lot of problems. And even where it's succeeding, many people just have fundamentally different aspirations.
there will always be problems .. it still is the world's 5th largest economy ..
@@direwolf6234 Well sure. There are always pros and cons. But most people who are even slightly conservative would look at California and think _"Regardless of the economy. The culture does not appeal to me."_
And I'm not sure current Democrats can take credit for California's economic success. Silicon Valley got started decades ago.
My favorite part is where they assume their terrible economic policies are just the smart common sense policies that voters would endorse that they actually cared about their own best interests.
@@andybrice2711 ask your fresh green salad about success ...
@@direwolf6234 I’m not sure what your point is. Every reasonably developed country is capable of growing and transporting fresh salad. That’s in no way an achievement of the past decade’s more radical Democrat policies.
I really hope they read these comments
The Obama coalition looks really tired now. It’s time for Obama to retire and bring up some new leaders.
Yeah his political legacy is finished. The only thing he'll be remembered for is completely failing to deliver on his promises, and ushering in Trump.
The irony of this entire podcast is straight out of The Onion.
I started listening just in background, and I got the same vibes out of it.
Primaries everyone, primaries! We had no clue who she was , what she really stood for, what message she had to convey. She disappeared for 4 years , and randomly came back out after 4 years. I’m upset with the outcome , but not shocked.
The democrat party left me and so many others behind starting in 2016, Sanders was suppressed
Why do the women on this podcast refuse to confront the failure of Democrats' policies? It's not a messaging problem.
"Maybe i want them to culture war a little more"
Oh. Mah. Gawd. She has learned NOTHING
The title of her next article will probably be "How the white male torpedoed the Harris campaign"
Lydia is absolutely deluded. It’s almost like she’s playing Opposite Day with what people actually think
I cannot listen to this. "Americans don't vote based on policy. The economy is actually really good, Harris should have run on that isntead of acknowledging inflation." Give me a break. How will democrats, and all americans learn from this election?
Democrats and leftists won't learn. Already talks about how they weren't progressive enough, which in my opinion was one of the reasons why they failed. Americans don't want a mandated lecture on why their ancestors were evil. Americans want to get to work, to build a better future for themselves and their country.
You are fools. The democratic platform has not spoken to working class people for a long, long time
Harris did pretty well with what she was given to do. I don't know if she could have won a Democrat primary.
I wonder how much freedom she was given to present her own platform. My sense is that she was coerced into towing a party-line. And I wonder if she'd actually have been more successful just following her own path.
@andybrice2711 yeah, she should have left it all out on the field.
in a fair primary she would lose ...
Democratic
We actually know how bad she would have done in a real primary, cause she was in one 4 years ago, and was clearly the worst of the choices.... Dnc corruption lost it for all of us AGAIN
We could have had Bernie for 2 terms, but nooo, the mainstream neoliberal media and the DNC fought tooth and nail to give him as little coverage and chance as possible.
Your recommendations of a “screen free and analog way to get through your day and distract yourself…”: live performances. Most Americans don’t live in cities where live performances can be accessed on a daily, much less weekly, basis. Live performances require money to attend. Painting rooms. This is done by Americans when renovating houses. Paint, brushes, ladders, etc. cost money. Home renovations for most Americans is not “just something to do”. Lap swimming. Most Americans don’t own a swimming pool. It’s Autumn, not summer; this means that days and nights are getting colder, not warmer. You’re clearly talking about an indoor swimming pool. Most swimming pools are outdoor pools. Do most Americans have access to indoor swimming pools whenever they want? I don’t think so. Your recommendations to distract yourself from the results of this election imply that you have access to larger urban amenities and enough money for luxury spending (I would include the casual painting of rooms in a house to be luxury spending). Luxury spending is for entertainment, not the essential coverage of key bills- rent, food, gas, insurance, clothing, education. Your recommendations set you apart from most Americans. Did you know this? Your implied “spending money” and what you would spend it on sets you apart from most Americans. I’m sorry, while much of this particular video was interesting, you’ve inadvertently shown what separates you from most Americans. By your own admission, most Americans voted for someone you didn’t think would win. If your recommendations were aimed at your listening audience, does this not imply that your targeted audience isn’t in the majority of Americans? Please think upon what you said (your recommendations for entertainment) and compare it to most Americans and their lives. I’ll leave the rest of thoughts to you.
"Heads over hearts" is a good encapsulation, but, more importantly, what has also happened is that Dems handicapped themselves by doing the bidding of their billionaire donors on economic policy, while, meanwhile, Trump brought his funders to heal with threats of economic ruin (tariffs).
I don't really buy that argument. A lot of the cultural issues progressives have been campaigning on are very much based in emotion rather than pragmatic reasoning.
Exactly, the party that has been demagoguing over race over the last 30 plus years and promising every free lunch that can be cooked up has no business trying to stake the high ground on being the party of adults.@@andybrice2711
Blame your party
Bernie would have won
Why these people are so smug?
The solution was to clearly point out grocery store price gouging - which Kroger literally admitted to in court DURING the campaign.
The people who de facto overthrew him and chose Harris are now smearing him. Class.
Biden had zero chance to win, to this day he struggles to articulate words, let alone concepts. His mind may be semi- ok but because he can't speak clearly there was no chance he could win.
I think it's fair criticism. He should've stepped down much sooner, when it was clear his health was declining. That stubborn arrogance tarnished an otherwise admirable career, and undermined his own party.
@@andybrice2711 biden's ego = dems loss ....
He should've pledged one term period
So why didn't they pushed him in this direction in 2022? Nobody had the guts, and now they chew his bones. Cowards and conformists all around@@andybrice2711
Biden looked so happy today giving his speech on a transition. You know he must have voted for Trump 😂
Did you see that video of him telling Kamala he’s still talking lol
No, he just has zero f-s to give anymore. A lot of us are feeling that way.
Bringing my country (India) and perceived ideas about any right of centre leader (Modi) = Trump = Nazi is exactly why Harris lost.
I'm not even American and the holier than thou attitude adopted by most of 'American Liberal' media ends up antagonising someone on the other end of the planet.
I can only imagine how much worse your compatriots who disagree with you feel when you prefer grandstanding over finding common ground.
I can only request that you do not poison my national discourse as we intend to argue but not antagonise as you lot.
Modi might have flaws, we'll shed light on them, the opposition has it's own which we will try to fix amongst us. I hope we dont go the NYT way of blaming the voters and 'moralising'. Please DO not push your fissiparous ideas onto India.
Uh do you really not think Trump and the Republicans don't engage in name calling and poisoning the discourse? He calls her Comrade Kamala, has called the Democrats scum and vermin and much worse. He ran ads suggesting Kamala was a C*unt and much more.
Trump has a nickname for everyone. Why does it work for him then and why are only Democrats at fault when they even do the most milquetoast name calling.
India has a very very different politics to most of the West. I'm from Australia, I barely understand it and even I can recognise that. There was a podcast series recently in the ABC (public broadcaster) about Modi, and the entire time the annoying host was trying to shoehorn in how the BJP is secretly fascist or whatever because it has a youth wing, and also the Nazis had a youth wing. She didn't even bother learning Hindi for the documentary, it was all done through her local translator.
I'm coming to Delhi in December to see for myself. There has to be some other political dynamic that can power a country than smug liberalism vs dumb conservatism.
@@oscarpistorius3710
All the political parties in India have a youth wing. It's mainly for college politics fought in Humanities campuses.
What's more it was started by the communists in India and then copied by both the centre left and the right.
Thanks for understanding that it's not binaries, I must add that Australians across the aisle are more pragmatic and nuanced. Maybe it's coz you already know some aspects of India courtesy sports/entertainment :D
Idk how you can say the Dems haven’t had a real primary to select a candidate since 2008. Electing Biden in 2020 was a real primary. Just cuz he wasn’t populist enough doesn’t mean he didn’t win it fair and square.
1/5 isnt great.....
@donkeybus yes but that was the previous election… we don’t have to go back all the way to 2008 to find a real primary, there was one in 2020
@@landonl.8965 ok, but like I said, 20% primary, 80% subverting democracy is a very poor record.
He won it squarely, but not fairly. If he won it fairly, he wouldn't have tried to push the primaries first to South Carolina as a big "thank you" to Clyburn and Obama pulling strings with establishment voters.
@@donkeybus ok I mean, now you’re reaching. There’s a middle ground of truth here. Like, I’m fine to admit there wasn’t a primary when Obama ran for reelection, but running for reelection without a primary is not “subverting democracy”. It’s the norm (and Trump did that in 2020 as all reelection campaigns have always been done) can’t we be honest here? There should’ve been a primary this time, we both agree with that. Biden should’ve ran against Hillary in 16 instead of being pushed not to, again I can agree. But it was just those two times: 2016 was rigged for Clinton and 2024 Biden made a mistake.
Not Biden's fault.
Do better.
Biden was a band-aid and he failed.
The contempt these people have for voters is palpable.
Voting for trump deserves contempt.
@@scottharrison812 What about the Democratic base that stayed home because liberals tacked to the right?
@scottharrison812 ok. Have contempt for 74M people, and alienate 15M more who'd rather stay homethan vote for Democrats, and feel high and mighty about yourself while Republicans keep winning elections. 🙄
As soon as Biden announced he was running again i began mentally preparing for the second trump term. Everyone should have seen this coming from a mile away
100%. Watching Biden's brain melt in that debate was all I needed to see that the Dems were going to lose.
NEOLIBERALS CANNOT BE THE CHANGE CANDIDATES. They don’t want change! They love the system! These people are insanely stupid. Either you put a Bernie Sanders style candidate front and center, or you embrace the far right. That’s it, no other choice. Every normal person is sick of the neoliberal system!
there isn't any money for public healthcare bc of inflation? how much money was spent in the campaign ?? You guys are a little delusional. BTW, I'm from spain, we have universal healthcare, as does the rest of europe, it's not a "scandinavian" thing
The healthcare system in the US is totally broken and is bankrupting us, while providing very poor care. And Trumps side actually adressed this, the dems did not!!! (And I didnt vote trump)
Most countries have some type of universal healthcare. Saying the US doesn't have the money to do it is laughable.
I nearly started screaming when they said that. Both because Kamala didn't try anything even remotely progressive or bernie-esque, and because Bernie actually did articulate how he was gonna pay for it (taxing billionaires!!!)
If anything this election was a complete vindication of Bernie, and a complete indictment of Hillary, Joe, Kamala, and everyone on the NYT editorial board.
Of course, as always, their solution amounted to "scapegoat, change nothing, and move right." Morons. Their politics is one of self-defeat.
@nicholasdelucena1260 exactly. In in the us there is too much profit to be made by making people ill and then selling them drugs. And those industries fund the democratic party.
Blame Biden's PR department, aka the corporate press
“A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it.” This entire country just votes on vibes
Blame the American people.
Blame corrupt centrist democrats
@@blueshoesrcool sure, and Trump is CLEARLY the antidote to “corruption”.
"Blame the voters" does not work in a society run by oligarchs.
this is what I like to call a "so let‘s take a step back-style podcast.
the hindsight 20/20 crowd
This lady is pure liberal narcissism. Keep it up and lose again in 4 years.
The Harris campaign was as empty as Biden, and just as inarticulate. If you always look for blame, you will always fail at analysis.
One of the greatest media struggles of the next decade is whether the NYT can create any space between itself and the moribund democratic establishment.
"Blame the guy who actually won" is a wild take
This was supposed to be about why democrats lost and what they did wrong and is instead just about blaming Republicans and voters. Somehow you accidentally created the most accurate depiction of what went wrong.
The democrats should allow a proper internal turmoil and let some fresh air in.
Swimming, always 👍
I think she knew she was going to lose and decided to spend the rest of the campaign money on a party with celebrities.
❤❤❤How many blue collar jobs are in the mission to MARS?
Zero. That requires scientists and engineers which we import from other countries because our education system is creating dumb-dumbs.
"a little less whining about the electoral college" wtf now is the only time when republicans would be incentivized to repeal the electoral college.
18:51 disagree. For months, Biden’s White House pointed at charts and said “the economy is great voters are wrong.” It was condescending AF and it’s why Kamala pivoted to acknowledging people felt pinched. But because she either didn’t want to or was told she couldn’t shit talk Biden, snd because she could not charismatically communicate whatever plan she had, she lost her credibility with voters.
I have right leaning family and their constant question was “what does she have besides abortion and maybe housing?”
I’m so happy someone finally nailed it. The Dems have really leaned into activist positions (not all positions) that have turned off the mass majority of voters.
Lydia Polgreen mentioned that Kamala didn't have the skill to frame her campaign as one of change like Trump did. But didn't she raise 3x in donations what Trump did? Are we really accepting that no one hired with those piles of cash could offer a competitive vision?
Most Americans are not on Medicaid in my mind that's a losing argument I want less Medicaid not more.
Eff the poor, huh? Do you think having a bunch of sick and dying people is good for a country?
I think that the electoral college discourages voting, unless you live in a swing state and that changes.
Look @NYT, I feel like we're at a moneyball moment... Allow myself to be Billy Beane.
~What is the problem?
~You know? Ok tell us all what the problem is?
Yeah you could blame Biden. But only in so far as to blame him for not allowing us to have a primary where we could pick someone who was actually going to fight for change.
Wait, you want the democrats to move AWAY from progressive ideas?! The reason the democrats lost isn’t progressive policy and messaging, it’s because of their status quo policy and messaging. We are in an era of populism. We need MORE left wing policy and more populist messaging.
Extremist left wing policy (west coast) and its obsession with identity politics is what alienated many independents and center left voters.
The arrogance and lack of humility here IS One of the problems in our country. You are not helping!!!
Part of the solution is for Democratic administrations to get their acts together. California high-speed rail. Dems want this program because it's good for the environment, but Dems also make it come in way over budget and miss deadlines by decades by giving every Democratic group and lobby standing in court to sue their own program, requiring the most expensive union labor, and making ever inch of that rail line get an environmental impact study. And then there's the mess that is the California solar industry. One part of the State of California incentivizes solar energy and storage by making carbon expensive and reducing net metering rates, but then another part of the state makes buying and installing home batteries to store that renewable energy expensive, difficult, or impossible because someone had a fire. This problem isn't limited to California or the energy industry.
Dems are bad at acknowledging trade offs. We can help the less fortunate by importing cheap EVs, but that comes at the expense of closing auto plants. We can help everyone with cheaper energy, but we have to drill and build pipelines. We can have cheaper labor/product costs, but immigration or outsourcing imposes costs. We can make food cheaper if we get rid of some agriculture subsidies. The result of DEI programs is that there's less opportunity for people not in protected classes. It feels like a zero sum game, because without robust economic growth, it is a zero sum game. Dems decided that those "working class" people were going to get the short end of the stick in these tradeoffs. The problem is that it didn't pay off with a lasting electoral majority. There's no way to unwind that without picking another group of losers and nobody is going to be happy about taking less.
I thought I was going to hear persuasive and thoughtful reflections on this podcast. I was wrong
The host of this podcast is very condescending and an example of why many people don’t like “liberals”. He’s nit picking every single thing the lady is saying in almost a combative manner. Incredibly off putting and a perfect example of why the working person deserted the democrats. No one wants an obnoxious and condescending person constantly complaining and interrupting them as speak.
I like how she says trumps message is clear then proceeds to provide some vague sentence. This lady just talks out of her ass.
Is this supposed to be level-headed journalistic analysis from a trusted paper of record? Lydia is literally hyperventilating with partisan rage. This is no better than 90's AM radio bluster. Sad...
Have you ever considered that your media coverage was to blame as well?
'Marmsplaining'
Biden was more popular than Harris. Shame he didn’t seem to have the energy to remind people how popular he was. So it goes.
He didnt even have the mental facility to pretend, stop the gaslighting
I agree it is crucial to make the dem primary more truly democratic, but… 2008?? What are you smoking?
Kamala just ran out of joementum too soon.
❤❤❤Change is easy. For those who have nothin left to lose
TL;DR. Blame the unchecked and outright celebrated misandry. Not from the candidates either, but from their base. I didnt vote t/v but there is no surprise that if there is a celebration of misandry going on men aren't going to be flocking to the party the folks doing it are touting.
Americans don’t know what a tariff is? How condescending.
What???
The guy said more votes cast, did he not? More votes case in house races for the Rs in 2016. Not more races won. And her response was, NY Dems need to be better at Gerrymandering? Gerrymandering doesn't change how many votes were cast? Did I miss something?
It is really difficult to see how we can make progress if people claim all of the moral high ground and mental acuity and look down on others without addressing nuanced representations of facts and recognizing the basis for other perspectives.
I’m old enough to remember 1972, when a completely open primary process in the Democratic Party led to a nominee who won only Massachusetts and the District of Columbia. Maybe the Democratic establishment has been too cautious in recent years, but remember that there is a reason why it exists.
So? Thats how democracy works, gice us a choice. You cant "save democracy" when you undermine your own democratic process".
@@donkeybus I’m curious-are you actually a Democrat, and have you voted in every Democratic primary?
34:50 why is she sad that people's lives will be damaged with those Trump-Musk policies
People wanted that way. People making less than 50k, voted for them with vast majority.
Stop worrying about this people? Let them see the consequences for them losing their healthcare is worth stopping trans athletes competing in sports.
I say get rid of Obamacare, get rid of any gun regulation, give tax cuts to rhe rich and cut SS and Medicare.
Let people experience the consequences of their votes . Until you do that you will keep talking in circles about why they vote for Trump.
Love this podcast but that girl is unhinged with democratic talking points. She clearly doesn't live in reality. Orange man bad is her answer for everything. Everyone else were great.
The problem is voter turnout not the tenant’s of liberalism. Biden got 80M votes and Kamala only received 72M.
And why didnt they turnout? Probablly because they had no good choice, Kamala was clearly not a strong canidate....
Exactly. People were literally voting for their lives in 2020 which is why there was so much turnout. That threat was over by 2024 and the threats to Democracy seemed more like the boy who cried wolf than a legitimate threat to the average voter.
The final vote count will likely be closer to 80m.
Absolutely insane and non-reflective takes from the ladies in this podcast.
Why not blame the people actually responsible-the voters
💯! Thank you-this is what they want, they’ve got it now, and they own the consequences. They can’t say they didn’t know who tfg is after all this time.
Well you can do that, and then you will never win, but at least you can be smug I suppose?
Because the voters were not given a choice. "How dare they not vote for this puppet that they already rejected, that we forced on ypu with no democratic process"? Ideas like that are the real problem.
@@donkeybus they weren’t required to vote for Harris, and the winner of the majority now has a chance to serve for four years. WTF is your point?
This podcast is just for you guys right??? Amilial, Klabidinal, you got all your big words in one sentence! Totally out of touch!!!
The chicks don’t get it
The dudes here do. Wow.
How do you say you’re out of touch without saying you are out of touch??
The US political system, though brilliantly conceived and enacted, has been slow to receive necessary upgrades. Like computer hackers, political entities with dangerous intentions have tested the locks protecting democratic freedoms in the US. I fear that just like a "zero day" attack on information systems, the American system of benevolent governance has been seriously compromised and is completely un-equiped to deal with a well armed sophisticated adversary This is especially true given the concerted attacks waged against it over the last decade or so.
1. The Original Design: Resilient but Not Infallible
The U.S. The Constitution was designed with checks and balances to prevent any one branch or individual from gaining too much power. However, it was conceived in an era that could not have foreseen the complexities of modern technology, mass media, or the ways in which global actors might seek to influence or disrupt a democratic system from within:
Assumptions of Good Faith: The founders assumed that those in power would largely act in good faith and would respect unwritten norms, even if they pursued their own interests. Today, we see actors who are willing to push the limits of the system, testing its boundaries in ways the founders may not have anticipated.
Slow Adaptation: Just as legacy computer systems are vulnerable to modern attacks due to outdated software, the American political system has not adapted quickly enough to counter new threats, such as disinformation, cyberattacks, and highly coordinated political strategies designed to undermine democratic institutions.
2. Emerging Threats: Exploiting Vulnerabilities in the Democratic System
In the last decade, we have witnessed a shift where malicious political actors have become more sophisticated in exploiting the inherent vulnerabilities of the democratic process:
Weaponization of Social Media: Social media platforms have been weaponized to spread disinformation and propaganda, inflaming divisions within the electorate. Foreign and domestic actors have used these tools to manipulate public opinion, often with micro-targeting techniques that were unimaginable even a decade ago.
Erosion of Norms: The past few years have shown that much of what keeps the U.S. political system stable is not just the laws themselves, but the norms that politicians traditionally followed. When these norms are violated-such as the peaceful transfer of power, respect for judicial independence, or adherence to fact-based governance-the system becomes vulnerable to abuse.
Legal and Procedural Exploits: Like hackers finding loopholes in software, some political actors have found ways to exploit the legal gray areas of the Constitution. For example, using gerrymandering, voter suppression tactics, and legal technicalities to entrench power in ways that may be technically legal but are fundamentally anti-democratic.
3. The "Zero-Day" Attack on Democracy
A zero-day exploit in cybersecurity refers to a previously unknown vulnerability that is exploited before it can be patched. The American political system may be facing its own version of this:
Rapid, Coordinated Attacks: Just as zero-day cyberattacks take advantage of unprepared systems, the U.S. political system has faced rapid, coordinated attacks from those who understand its weaknesses-including both foreign adversaries and internal actors who wish to consolidate power.
Disruption of Trust: The goal of many of these attacks is not necessarily to change laws directly, but to undermine public trust in democratic institutions. When trust erodes, people become more willing to accept authoritarian solutions or abandon democratic principles altogether.
4. What Makes the Current Situation So Dangerous?
The tools and tactics available to adversaries today are far more powerful than those available in the past:
Digital Propaganda: AI-driven bots, deepfake technology, and sophisticated algorithms can generate and disseminate disinformation at a scale and speed that were previously unimaginable.
Polarization and Fragmentation: The ability to divide and conquer has never been more effective. The U.S. is deeply polarized, and adversaries exploit these divisions to prevent unified responses to threats.
Legal Manipulation: The law is often slow to adapt, and bad actors are quick to exploit legal loopholes, whether it involves manipulating the Electoral College, using executive orders to bypass Congress, or stacking the judiciary with partisan judges.
5. What Can Be Done? Potential Solutions and Mitigations
The U.S. needs to upgrade its defenses, much like how cybersecurity systems need constant updates to protect against new threats. Some potential avenues include:
Modernizing Election Security: Implementing stronger protections for the integrity of elections, including the use of paper ballots, robust auditing procedures, and safeguards against cyberattacks on voting infrastructure.
Regulating Digital Platforms: Enforcing stricter regulations on social media companies to prevent the spread of disinformation and foreign interference. Transparency in political advertising and algorithmic accountability are crucial steps.
Strengthening Democratic Institutions: Reforming outdated procedures like gerrymandering and filibuster rules to ensure that the system remains fair and representative. Restoring public trust will require greater transparency and accountability in government actions.
Investing in Civic Education: A well-informed populace is the best defense against manipulation. Teaching critical thinking, media literacy, and the principles of democracy can empower citizens to resist disinformation and demagoguery.
International Cooperation: Just as cyber threats are a global issue, so too are threats to democracy. The U.S. needs to work with allies to develop strategies to counter both digital and political interference from authoritarian regimes.
Conclusion: Facing the Rogue Wave Head-On
My fear that a "rogue wave" of sociopolitical disruption is already upon us is well-founded. The combination of unchecked technological power, deepening polarization, and sophisticated adversarial strategies presents a clear and present danger to the stability of democratic governance. The U.S. system, while resilient, was not designed to withstand the full-scale, multidimensional assault it faces today.
However, recognizing the threat is the first step toward addressing it. Much like in cybersecurity, awareness, preparation, and proactive measures can mitigate the damage. The rogue wave may be upon us, but it is not too late to reinforce the levees and develop new tools to protect the core principles of democracy. The challenge is great, but the stakes could not be higher: the future of democratic governance, not just in the U.S., but around the world, may very well depend on how we respond.
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Indrid - A splendid, well set out analysis of our problems and possible solutions.
Unfortunately, too long, deep thinking for 70/80% knee-jerk commentators on these sites, most will sneer at elites and experts as "out of touch"
Democracy? Ouch!
'Good write👌🏽
USA. USA, USA. Easy to chant. Consider how easy it is to spell. You now have the best clue as to this loss.
“For now” This is why you lost. Be better.
Stop with the scapegoating. Just stop it.
Blame the REAL culprit. The one that people watch all day long. TV. I don't know how many times I heard my cranky old grandma gripe about gay people on MAX or Netflix. You forced people to watch things they weren't used to seeing on TV - even commercials are biracial now - and they got fed up. Yeah, its nasty prejudice, but you don't end that with constant exposure like that film, TV and even the news did every day.
Insufferable.