thank you. every other mode is dependent on the players pushing and actually doing stuff. Yet with zones, you just cap zone, get kills, spam specials, repeat. Especially if you get teammates that just feed, you can't do anything. It's a nightmare.
Exactly, zones is the only mode where the objective doesn't move forward. In every other mode, the attacking team needs to make a coordinated push in order to score effectively. But in zones, it's the defending team which needs to make a coordinated push just to stop the other team from scoring. In a non coordinated solo environment, this feels horrendous.
Same, my issue of zone is basically tug of war, sure rainmaker is also like that. But least you actually put effort to move the objective. Zone however takes away all of that and just pray the opposing team don’t have specials that basically cover the whole zone(if the zone is small would lead to instant capture) especially is bad when you have to defend two zones. It’s why I hardly touch zones and rather play ether tower control or rainmaker
Finally someone mentioned everything I was thinking. 4:05 also I’m so glad you talked about this, because I stopped watching comp Splatoon because they only play zones and it’s SO BORING. Another point I’d argue is with them only playing zones, there is barely any variety in team comps. Do you know how many times I’ve seen the same comp of slosher, Range blaster, pencil, and splattershot, there’s just no variety. Great video👍🏾
@@gameguys8019 The Same comp each time it’s all about the meta I guess. But I agree I always wondered why the heck comp always did just splat zones it’s boring to me.
I think I'll comment on the cheese strats stuff because I think what wasn't mentioned is that the other modes have cheese too. Tower control has bubble to block for points (on check you can put it on the sides of tower to avoid the extra hp drain, or strikes to guarantee no overtime push by clearing tower for +5 seconds. Rainmaker has kraken to guard grabs uncontested for 8 seconds or force extra points, vac to run rainmaker in, bubble for checkpoints. Clams Kraken cheese actually still works if you wait out the endlag (it is a lot worse though), and while slider can't cross the stage it can also skip a path to the basket to give jumps. Basically there's no way getting around objective cheese for any of the ranked modes (turf war has none though) But I would argue zones has the easiest job fixing this, slider is solved with an ability ban and strike a small painting nerf. To clarify I'm not saying cheese isn't a problem, I'm saying it's not a zones only issue. I've seen tower control be brought up a bit more to try out recently so there's a chance we see something new at higher level play, but it's a bit early to say.
I'm not denying that the other modes have cheese, but I feel likes zones is where it can be the most annoying. Most of the cheese in the other modes is only really an issue for ending overtime pushes, which don't get me wrong, is extremely meddlesome, but in zones sometimes the cheese can make taking the lead remotely impossible because you can just cap to stall because of the way the penalties in zones works without ever having to push up. Not to mention, if you do push up with these specials, it becomes terrible for the enemy team, because you basically just get free map control (especially for strikes). This + using cheese to just win in overtime just completely sucks imo. And I will agree that zones cheese can just be minimized by bans and a simple nerf, you could say the same for some of the other modes. Also for bubble cheese on tower specifically, most of the time it can be minimized by the use of another special (e.g. strikes, slider, booyah). Though I am glad that other modes are starting to be talked about and considered.
Always remember that they added spawn launchers to "get you back into the fight faster" then proceded to make them needlessly further than the old spawns.
There are several challenges which take place in Zones (namely the Inkjet and Splat Bomb ones) where matches always end far too quickly because of how easy it is to keep a lockout on Zones.
Thank you! People complain about specials that don't have much interaction, but in terms of modes I feel like zones is the one that has the least fun interaction with the actual objective.
The thing with Zones in 3 is that 3 is too fast for Zones. The timer counts down so fast because most of the match is supposed to be contested or working down the penalty, with both teams setting up defensive lines and not letting the enemy through. But because of Cooler, 3 is too aggressive and wipeouts are not uncommon, and a wipeout in Zones is a death sentence even with the Cooler bonus. Plus specials in general are too strong, so they get slinged around left and right.
Yes I’ve always held the opinion that the time counts way too fast. It should be 1 second per point minimum. A mode that ends in KO 80% of the time is not a good mode lol!
THANK YOU!! I agree that zones cheese kind of ruins the mode and I do hate the repetitiveness of watching zones only. I am a believer that the other modes (especially clams) are just as good on specific maps so I think we should work around it like that;probably prioritise zones all modes tournaments are the way to go!
@ honestly I kinda forgot about tower cheese. How could I forget Kraken, and Killer wail, and booya, and strike, and missiles, and bubbler. Not to mention bomb spam and mains like blasters. You are so right ):
Rainmaker may not be balanced well, but this is splatoon we're talking about. The rainmaker itself is a genius mechanic and it is probably the mode that is most fun to watch
In competitive I basically have to agree with you word for word. I understand Zones is the best mode but having it as the only one def gets old In Solo I have a bit of a different issue though. Since Zones is the competitively favored mode, sometimes I avoid particularly good Zones rotations, because I KNOW comp players are gonna be active during those, and matchmaking will throw me in those same lobbies Rotations in other modes can be a lot more fun as a result I also just think that Zones is significantly more prone to Spawn locks due to the way the mode is designed, since you have to always make your way to mid instead of the objective moving closer to you (though the tower special advantage makes this close) Occasional gimmick zones only tournaments are fine but having it be the only mode for most tournaments is a bit much imo
real its so awkward trying to stop someone in your base w a power clam idk if its js me but the maps are always so tiny and not that spacious, wahoo is very big with the tiny spiny thing under mid as a way to get into opponent’s base which is one thing i dont like
Ngl I rather play CB than Zones. Instant Take Over is just painful especially when it’s overtime and then you see that cursed Tristrike or reef. Solo Zones 😭
I've always hated Splat Zones and everybody always tells me "You just don't know how to play the game, you like Clam Blitz because there's literally no coordination (the irony)". I think Solo Queue Zones is so flawed. Most everyone plays in shallow base or mid and it's hard to take back the zone without a quad or triple.
I honestly think zones is the worst mode because it’s the only one where players don’t have to be actively doing something with the objective in order to score points which makes it easy to just win one team fight at the start of the match and then just lock the other team in spawn due to some of the bad maps where it’s basically impossible to retake. In all the other modes at least one player has to be on the objective in order to get points making retaking easier. Clam blitz may be the worst mode for solo queue but if you have even just one other person to play it with in a call then I think it’s probably the best mode because it has the most opportunities for retaking and is less likely to get a ko in one push so you actually get to play the game instead of waiting to get a match only to basically immediately be sent back to the queue after losing one team fight and not being able to get back in.
And there are a lot of zones maps like that. And for solo specifically, it doesn't help when you have 3 bubbles and 1 zooka as your special loadout with no range, and you're fighting triple retake on brinewater springs. (This actually happened to me in solo btw.)
@@notfallerryes I feel like all these “lesser” flaws like poor matchmaking, fast timer, cheesy specials, small maps, etc. all add up to make zones the worst experience in PvP unfortunately.
I also want to add in soloq zones a lot off the time people play longer range weapons that paint well just too safely paint the zone from a distance and rarely ever move. The game basically becomes a war of attrition off painting zone. zones is still one off the more consistently enjoyable modes but still has problems
This is very true, for example pencil or Dynamo. Usually Dynamo is easier to deal with, but it's basically just a battle of who get the better painting comp
slider cheese actually does exist in clams. being able to give jumps at the basket for free because of its invincibility. i'm pretty sure it was also used during the kings tourney for clams yesterday. clams also plays very slowly at top level, as opposed to the other 3 modes
That's very niche though tbh, and is only really an issue in overtime. Otherwise you just die and give the enemy tram a free counter push. Also, I don't understand how clams is slower. Could you elaborate?
@@notfallerr it is niche but it still does the same thing kraken cheese did. 3 footballs + cooler respawn is way too powerful and doesn't give enough time for a counter push immediately. as for why i find it slower, i'm obviously not the most experienced person but from playing some solo + especially when watching tournaments, clam pushes just take longer (i will say i did exaggerate when i said "very slowly"). zones tower and rainmaker usually have 2 states - neutral and a "push" state. in clams it feels like there's a third one slowing it down. after neutral and before a push. where the team who won the mid fight just stays there and holds space. they kinda have to do this to build up enough clams to make a good push, if they go to fast they'll either score a low amount of points or not at all. i just think this state doesn't allow the full potential of this meta which can play so fast. obviously this isn't something that happens EVERY game and it also sometimes happens in other modes, but i feel clams is where it's most apparent
@@lambchopsandwichyeah timing being a couple players up over the other team and having a good amount of clams to score with is difficult imo. Something I think that contributes to this is that the clams just spawn in random locations. IMO there should be set known locations where certain amounts of clams spawn instead of just wherever, like clam vending machines or something lol. Thereve been so many times I’m running around trying to find clams, then three just spawn right next to their basket so I just run in and score real quick. Doesn’t really feel earned, and doesn’t really feel like it can be properly defended against.
Yes thank you! I hate zones so much lol! Easily the worst mode imo… and for many of the reasons you stated, tho I also believe spawncamping enabled by the map designs themselves is the reason “cheese specials” are even needed or viable. It was bad in past games, and it’s even worse in this game. I could never bring myself to play zones in anarchy series-I’m not gonna risk my rank on that garbage mode lol! Yes, the mode being passive and having to go all the way to the middle to stop the count while all the other team has to do is spawn camp-or even simply nothing-is absolute garbage and easily the biggest flaw in any mode. It most definitely is evident that this was the first mode they made as it is so bad-and the kicker is that in 9 years it’s the only mode that’s never been reworked at all lol! The best idea I believe I’ve ever come up with to salvage the mode would be to rework the mode to have checkpoints. The main zone in the middle would count for like 40 points, while two smaller checkpoint zones further into the enemy spawn that you have to keep control over in addition to the middle zone to continue to score points would be worth like 30 each (if someone slipped around the enemy team and took control of the middle zone while they’re counting down a checkpoint zone, the defending team would gain control and the enemy team have to go deal with that). This would make the mode more like all the other modes in that it has checkpoints and a reason to have to push up, which also makes comebacks for the team behind easier since you have to spread out and control more area of the map actively. Simply holding a team back from the middle is not enough to definitively deserve a win-a mode that ends in KO 80% of the time is inherently not a good mode. Having to hold the team all the way back while pushing up and being spread across the map? Much more fair, and KO’s much more deserved. Any thoughts on all this? Thanks for reading! (P.S. A zones only tournament sounds like torture I’d never play one of those lol!)
The issue isn’t other modes, the issue is the other modes on the games current map list. Zones is just the best across all maps it’s not the best format for the engine or the weapon meta. But these are the maps we’ve been given.
Def a fair point, thanks for contributing to the conversation. But like I said in the video, maplists can still be optimized imo. For example Scorch clams is a fairly good clams stage, or Rainmaker Rom-EN, etc
@ I totally agree but I’ve heard that the issue among the comp community has been that lots of players who’s mains matchup well into bad stages want to keep bad stages in the map list. There’s people who love the game and want compete with the game in its best form, and there’s people who want to win and will try to manipulate their environment to be advantageous before a match even starts.
I think you'll struggle to find anyone who thinks zones cheese is good, but I think that some of it is more attributed to poor balance rather than poor design. Reef in particular was just taken in the wrong direction and it sucks. However, I think it's important to note that variety is key, both in what you're arguing for tournaments, but also for the game as a whole. Yes, the zone doesn't move, yes the mode is more special centric, but if you really think about it, most of the modes are. The whole game/meta is focused on using specials to give you an advantage- that's literally their point. I think zones (minus cheese) is perfectly fine as it is because it's a different experience than the other modes. Clams has you gather things around the map to score in the opponents base. BOTH rainmaker and tower are just "bring this thing to this location over time". Zones is unique because it's about control of a location, and that's okay. It offers a unique challenge and it means you need to think about it slightly differently, making more gameplay variety. Also as an extra note, most tournaments that I know of DO have a limited map list for teams to use/ban from, whether it's zones only or not, also adding variety in gameplay.
As mostly a solo queue zones player, I like how zones is stationary (minus bluefin but that stage kinda sucks). Zones cheese is definitely a problem though, 100% agree with you on that. I think the reason why zones only tournaments are so popular are that tournaments like area cup have stayed so long that a lot of comp players mostly look at that because it is one of the biggest and consistent tournaments. (I also like watching the vods later)
4:01 happened to me before and is quite literally why i just took a two break month from the game,losing to solo zones cheese strats is just the worst feeling ever and worst thing to grace this game
I actually really like the CCA’s method. 5 predetermined map/modes, 2 of them are zones, and you strike 2 (it’s Bo3). That way, if you just want to play zones, you can strike the other stuff (mostly), but if you want to play the other modes you can
Not only the special spam, but losing a fight in zones is probably the most punishing in any of the modes. You die and have to respawn, in that time you lose most of your special, your enemy gains map control and most likely gets their special, and now not only do you have to have to traverse half of the map just to get to the objective, but its all gonna be covered in enemy ink so the chance of you getting sharked is super high. And even if you get a pick, the enemy team will just respond with the specials they have. And in zones if you lose two fights, the timer ticks down so fast, you probably already lost if you didnt contest the zone. Whoever has control of the zones just has a HUGE attackers advantage, as they can spend every resource just preventing you from getting to the zone in the first place. Thats why in solo queue I prefer tower control. Having someone have to physically be on a moving objective not only means more of the map is actually used and designed choke points get used properly at checkpoints, but also that you have to actually keep the objective in mind and position yourself in a vulnerable spot (the tower) to get points. You can't just get the objective and then focus on just fighting. There’s still some cheesy specials like kraken or something, but I feel like its way more fair then reefslider or ink strike.
Yeah zones is very punishing with lockouts and the stages don't help. For tower control, the only significant issues are the attackers passive special fill and the amount of things that cheese the tower. I had a creative idea one day that what if strikes and booyah bounced off the tower on Contact?
@notfallerr Hmmm I think ot would be a start, but then people would just throw then either near or around the tower, so odk of it'd be that impactful. I think any safe displacement specials will always be used for cheese. Honestly I hope splatoon 4 dials back the displacement specials you can just throw in and focuses on more engaging ones.
What I want to see for zones in S4 would be to remove the single zones. Double zones and the moving zone on bluefin make it more interesting. With double zones you have to stop two from being taken which is a lot harder than one massive zone. And bluefin just makes it more interesting fighting on the different sides of the map.
I only like splat zones because every other mode is hell in solo,in tower no one rides the tower,rainmaker I’m always having to get the rainmaker (while I’m a frontline player,meant to protect the carrier!) and clam blitz is….clam blitz. And even though the others suck,it’s honestly not that fun if you aren’t a frontline player. (I play chargers and splatanas,and can basically only play splatanas for zones.)
Zones in solo is interesting. I feel like it's a little more dependant on your team comp than in competitive. E.g. painting comps are more favored in solo zones
Holy shit your just like me, finally someone who isn't glazing Zones acting like it's amazing in this game. Don't get me wrong I loved it in previous games. But Zones in this game feels like Rainmaker in S2, games will end immediately if you die twice, the mode constantly makes you rush, with the one difference being you gotta run into mid with little to no map or paint control and take the zone back with the whole team setup, rather than them coming to you and being able to stop them by just sharking or cutting them off. I think most of hate on modes is completely overexaggerated, but Zones usually gets none of it. I don't even think the western community is capable of going Zones only, they can't agree on anything. Definitely getting a sub.
Over time i realized the maps make SZ sooo much worse. The point of zones is to get farther ahead so the enemy team doesnt affect you AND the zone. But on some maps its basically just lock out the entire time or that there are no good places to hold from. It all devolves back to maps, doesn't it..
@@notfallerrI very much enjoy playing brushes, which gives me the extra mobility needed to score more easily in clams. You’ve actually got to take control of the map, then time having clams with being a man or two up from them, in order to get a good push in to score, all while ensuring no one slips past your defense and scores behind your back. Winning on clams actually feels like it’s earned. In zones, however, you just spawncamp the other team for a minute and it ends for you. Any ol’ schmuck can just get lucky or unlucky for no reason lol.
as someone who has been grinding solo queue zones in japan, (2642 xp) and plays zones only formats in tourney and scrims, I never feel the stress of the counter and zones feels like the most skillful mode out of all of them, its simple, cap zone(s) diff the other team and hold, on defense you spam bomb and take advantage of people pushing you, the only thing thats bad about the mode is strikes and slider being prominent, besides that the mode is by far the best in the game
Strikes and slider is what I was mostly calling the mode out for (other than zones only which isn't an issue with the mode), and the counter was based off my personal experience with it, as I said in the video. Also, some people are extremely good at timing their strikes for no reason, but I will agree that you can paint over the strikes most of the time, when it's only the strikes painting the zone.
@@notfallerr ontop of that, that really isnt a mode issue and its more like the specials just being overtuned for no reason besides that, the specials are hella overtuned for no reason zones is easily the easiest to understand hard to master mode in the game imo
Gonna disagree with that. While aerospray and junior paint a lot, aerospray gets bullied by midlines and pencil (which is what's picked atm), and Jr does have bubble and DOES see some use, but it's usually not picked because you can just play a splattershot or N-zap.
@@notfallerri mean if you have an aerospray running around painting and nothing else with a hell ton of run speed or ink eff or even qr if they die a lot they might be able to keep zone painted enough
@@AYYXBICTOAN I mean sure but that's basically like having a player down. You're not only trying to keep the zone painted, you also need to have a man advantage and hold down space. If you really want zone paint and smth with a useful special, shot, N-zap, or decavitator would be much better
The issue isn't zones. It's splatoon 3 terrible maps. When almost all of the maps have 0 flank routes/side routes, and just try to funnel and trap everyone into mid, yeah, special cycling is gonna be the main strat since it's the only reliable and safe option. All the modes have suffered due to the bad maps. Splat zones just suffered the least, as the other modes border on being unplayable on a lot of the maps in this game. Tower and Rain especially.
There's a lot more I could've covered in this video tbh, and this is one of those things. I have no issue with using specials to retake, as you said, the map design basically forces that, but it's the win condition specials that are the issue
@notfallerr you're right about zones cheese being annoying. But Specials can be used to cheese the other modes too, so specials being a problem isn't really exclusive to just zones. I'll still point to the maps as the main issue, as if they were good, then we probably would see the other modes get banned. It's just a case of one option hurting less than the others. And I love clams. (It's my favorite mode) I'd agree that only seeing zone is very boring, but again, the other modes function way less with these maps that zones is the best option. Tower matches snowball like crazy. Rain often only has a single route to take, even if the map gives an illusion of another route. And Clams are often just 10 minute stalemates. Or one team scores early than play defense for the remainder of the match.
@@bluetoad6848 On the topic of cheesing on other modes, the only other mode where specials are a 'win condition' is tower control. For RM and CB, you'd have to use them more strategically. For zones being the best option, I see this differently now so thanks for that, but I do think we could experiment a bit with mode diversity in events. Especially with the speed of the game at the top level, it could be interesting.
I LOVE TOWER CONTROL TOWER FOR THE DOUBLE U TOWER CONTROL HAS ZERO FLAWS WHATSOEVER ANYOTHER MODE IS HOT TRASH AND I HATE IT TOWER CONTROL IS THE ONLY PLAYABLE MODE (:
I can see where you're coming from with that, but it's only really some of the time when you get wiped in the last 30 seconds. You can still come back in 30 seconds if you're fast enough getting your specials
I stopped watching JP streamers because all they do is play zones and it seems most content is about that boring ass mode. I'm Clam Blitz biased. And you know, Clam Blitz has been done dirty because the matchmaking is flawed. People in X rank waste pity clams, make super clams before they're half the way into the rival's basket, etc. If only there was a way to be assured your teammates know not to hold super clams all the time because it literally reveals their positions.
idk, man. A lot of these points (especially the first one) kinda just seem like your opinion. It's fine to just say you don't like the mode, but framing the mode as "poorly designed" because of your own personal experience seems a bit close-minded. Also, no, people talk about their problems with zones all the time. It's probably the mode I see the most hate towards online, especially now that zones-only is the average tourney format. I have my own gripes with the mode (mainly zones cheese), but I don't think two specials with not-so-great designs are enough to call a mode "bad".
The first section is supposed to be me expressing my opinion (I literally said " The thing 'I' dislike", and "I personally don't think"), and I never called the mode poorly designed. The main focus of the video is the specials used in zones, and zones only formatting for events. I specifically said that you can prove me wrong about no one discussing the issues in the video, because that was just me trying to say I haven't seen anyone really talking about it especially prominent players in the scene.
@@notfallerr Ok, thanks for the clarification! The video seemed a bit more focused on calling zones itself bad, but it seems that wasn't the intention. In that case, I do fully agree with you! Reefslider and Tri-strike definitely have overtuned paint, and should be nerfed (while buffing reefslider in other ways because oh my god the special NEEDS it).
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Reminder that this is my OPINION. I'm willing to argue in a civilized manner in replies.
Solo queue zones is a nightmare
Yeah seriously... (PICKLE HUG)
In open for me it’s a complete and utter nightmare
Hell, I even enjoy playing TC or Rainmaker while using Octobrush than Zones
Zones is hella overrated imo.
As a top 500 player in the ttek division. Yeah that sums it up. Although I did beat pickle hug a few times.
Its literally the easiest
thank you. every other mode is dependent on the players pushing and actually doing stuff. Yet with zones, you just cap zone, get kills, spam specials, repeat. Especially if you get teammates that just feed, you can't do anything. It's a nightmare.
Exactly, zones is the only mode where the objective doesn't move forward. In every other mode, the attacking team needs to make a coordinated push in order to score effectively. But in zones, it's the defending team which needs to make a coordinated push just to stop the other team from scoring. In a non coordinated solo environment, this feels horrendous.
I never liked splat zones, I was always more of a rainmaker player.
Same, my issue of zone is basically tug of war, sure rainmaker is also like that. But least you actually put effort to move the objective. Zone however takes away all of that and just pray the opposing team don’t have specials that basically cover the whole zone(if the zone is small would lead to instant capture) especially is bad when you have to defend two zones. It’s why I hardly touch zones and rather play ether tower control or rainmaker
I don't mind zones sometimes, but I'm more of a TC player personally cause it's more up to my speed.
Bro just described every reason why zones is my least favorite ranked mode
Finally someone mentioned everything I was thinking. 4:05 also I’m so glad you talked about this, because I stopped watching comp Splatoon because they only play zones and it’s SO BORING. Another point I’d argue is with them only playing zones, there is barely any variety in team comps. Do you know how many times I’ve seen the same comp of slosher, Range blaster, pencil, and splattershot, there’s just no variety. Great video👍🏾
@@gameguys8019 The Same comp each time it’s all about the meta I guess. But I agree I always wondered why the heck comp always did just splat zones it’s boring to me.
Good point with the comps, I completely forgot about that!
I think I'll comment on the cheese strats stuff because I think what wasn't mentioned is that the other modes have cheese too.
Tower control has bubble to block for points (on check you can put it on the sides of tower to avoid the extra hp drain, or strikes to guarantee no overtime push by clearing tower for +5 seconds. Rainmaker has kraken to guard grabs uncontested for 8 seconds or force extra points, vac to run rainmaker in, bubble for checkpoints. Clams Kraken cheese actually still works if you wait out the endlag (it is a lot worse though), and while slider can't cross the stage it can also skip a path to the basket to give jumps.
Basically there's no way getting around objective cheese for any of the ranked modes (turf war has none though) But I would argue zones has the easiest job fixing this, slider is solved with an ability ban and strike a small painting nerf.
To clarify I'm not saying cheese isn't a problem, I'm saying it's not a zones only issue. I've seen tower control be brought up a bit more to try out recently so there's a chance we see something new at higher level play, but it's a bit early to say.
I'm not denying that the other modes have cheese, but I feel likes zones is where it can be the most annoying. Most of the cheese in the other modes is only really an issue for ending overtime pushes, which don't get me wrong, is extremely meddlesome, but in zones sometimes the cheese can make taking the lead remotely impossible because you can just cap to stall because of the way the penalties in zones works without ever having to push up. Not to mention, if you do push up with these specials, it becomes terrible for the enemy team, because you basically just get free map control (especially for strikes). This + using cheese to just win in overtime just completely sucks imo. And I will agree that zones cheese can just be minimized by bans and a simple nerf, you could say the same for some of the other modes. Also for bubble cheese on tower specifically, most of the time it can be minimized by the use of another special (e.g. strikes, slider, booyah). Though I am glad that other modes are starting to be talked about and considered.
Always remember that they added spawn launchers to "get you back into the fight faster" then proceded to make them needlessly further than the old spawns.
I imagine there's a difference between "feeling faster" and "being faster".
i feel like the only good cheese special on zones is booyah bomb, because at least theres a way to counter it.
@@GAMRCAT-1 this could be strikes if they expanded slower and were smaller
@@notfallerr i feel like that is one of the only ways to make strikes balanced
There are several challenges which take place in Zones (namely the Inkjet and Splat Bomb ones) where matches always end far too quickly because of how easy it is to keep a lockout on Zones.
And then you add special spam to that 😭 😭 😭
Yeah zones based challenges are garbage! The speedy roller and brush one should have easily been on clams!
Thank you! People complain about specials that don't have much interaction, but in terms of modes I feel like zones is the one that has the least fun interaction with the actual objective.
The thing with Zones in 3 is that 3 is too fast for Zones. The timer counts down so fast because most of the match is supposed to be contested or working down the penalty, with both teams setting up defensive lines and not letting the enemy through. But because of Cooler, 3 is too aggressive and wipeouts are not uncommon, and a wipeout in Zones is a death sentence even with the Cooler bonus. Plus specials in general are too strong, so they get slinged around left and right.
Yes I’ve always held the opinion that the time counts way too fast. It should be 1 second per point minimum. A mode that ends in KO 80% of the time is not a good mode lol!
THANK YOU!! I agree that zones cheese kind of ruins the mode and I do hate the repetitiveness of watching zones only. I am a believer that the other modes (especially clams) are just as good on specific maps so I think we should work around it like that;probably prioritise zones all modes tournaments are the way to go!
Ehh I mean tower control is a bit iffy but clams and rain are fine
Edit: Tower control cheese may be even worse than zones cheese
@ honestly I kinda forgot about tower cheese. How could I forget Kraken, and Killer wail, and booya, and strike, and missiles, and bubbler. Not to mention bomb spam and mains like blasters. You are so right ):
Rainmaker may not be balanced well, but this is splatoon we're talking about. The rainmaker itself is a genius mechanic and it is probably the mode that is most fun to watch
@@oliverjohno6082and people think sting ray back in the day was bad lol! Look at what we have now!
In competitive I basically have to agree with you word for word. I understand Zones is the best mode but having it as the only one def gets old
In Solo I have a bit of a different issue though. Since Zones is the competitively favored mode, sometimes I avoid particularly good Zones rotations, because I KNOW comp players are gonna be active during those, and matchmaking will throw me in those same lobbies
Rotations in other modes can be a lot more fun as a result
I also just think that Zones is significantly more prone to Spawn locks due to the way the mode is designed, since you have to always make your way to mid instead of the objective moving closer to you (though the tower special advantage makes this close)
Occasional gimmick zones only tournaments are fine but having it be the only mode for most tournaments is a bit much imo
That's exactly my point!
Yes we need zones checkpoints in the next game!
0:05 I can’t express my hatred for clam blitz 🌧️
It's not THAT bad
u just bad
real its so awkward trying to stop someone in your base w a power clam idk if its js me but the maps are always so tiny and not that spacious, wahoo is very big with the tiny spiny thing under mid as a way to get into opponent’s base which is one thing i dont like
@@notlluxentx yeah you gotta be very very aware in clam blitz. As much as I hate it I guess it could help with awareness
@ yeah ig thats true
Ngl I rather play CB than Zones. Instant Take Over is just painful especially when it’s overtime and then you see that cursed Tristrike or reef. Solo Zones 😭
I've always hated Splat Zones and everybody always tells me "You just don't know how to play the game, you like Clam Blitz because there's literally no coordination (the irony)". I think Solo Queue Zones is so flawed. Most everyone plays in shallow base or mid and it's hard to take back the zone without a quad or triple.
SAME though smh... zones used to be my least favorite but then my eyes were opened to TC
No coordination in clam blitz! Those people are crazy. It requires the most coordination and zones requires the least
I honestly think zones is the worst mode because it’s the only one where players don’t have to be actively doing something with the objective in order to score points which makes it easy to just win one team fight at the start of the match and then just lock the other team in spawn due to some of the bad maps where it’s basically impossible to retake. In all the other modes at least one player has to be on the objective in order to get points making retaking easier.
Clam blitz may be the worst mode for solo queue but if you have even just one other person to play it with in a call then I think it’s probably the best mode because it has the most opportunities for retaking and is less likely to get a ko in one push so you actually get to play the game instead of waiting to get a match only to basically immediately be sent back to the queue after losing one team fight and not being able to get back in.
And there are a lot of zones maps like that. And for solo specifically, it doesn't help when you have 3 bubbles and 1 zooka as your special loadout with no range, and you're fighting triple retake on brinewater springs. (This actually happened to me in solo btw.)
@@notfallerryes I feel like all these “lesser” flaws like poor matchmaking, fast timer, cheesy specials, small maps, etc. all add up to make zones the worst experience in PvP unfortunately.
I'm pregante
Oh
Hi pregante. I'm aaron.
@@aaronkaw4857 ah em gee hit pokemon aron
I also want to add in soloq zones a lot off the time people play longer range weapons that paint well just too safely paint the zone from a distance and rarely ever move. The game basically becomes a war of attrition off painting zone.
zones is still one off the more consistently enjoyable modes but still has problems
This is very true, for example pencil or Dynamo. Usually Dynamo is easier to deal with, but it's basically just a battle of who get the better painting comp
slider cheese actually does exist in clams. being able to give jumps at the basket for free because of its invincibility. i'm pretty sure it was also used during the kings tourney for clams yesterday. clams also plays very slowly at top level, as opposed to the other 3 modes
That's very niche though tbh, and is only really an issue in overtime. Otherwise you just die and give the enemy tram a free counter push. Also, I don't understand how clams is slower. Could you elaborate?
@@notfallerr it is niche but it still does the same thing kraken cheese did. 3 footballs + cooler respawn is way too powerful and doesn't give enough time for a counter push immediately. as for why i find it slower, i'm obviously not the most experienced person but from playing some solo + especially when watching tournaments, clam pushes just take longer (i will say i did exaggerate when i said "very slowly"). zones tower and rainmaker usually have 2 states - neutral and a "push" state. in clams it feels like there's a third one slowing it down. after neutral and before a push. where the team who won the mid fight just stays there and holds space. they kinda have to do this to build up enough clams to make a good push, if they go to fast they'll either score a low amount of points or not at all. i just think this state doesn't allow the full potential of this meta which can play so fast. obviously this isn't something that happens EVERY game and it also sometimes happens in other modes, but i feel clams is where it's most apparent
Honestly, fair enough
@@lambchopsandwichyeah timing being a couple players up over the other team and having a good amount of clams to score with is difficult imo.
Something I think that contributes to this is that the clams just spawn in random locations.
IMO there should be set known locations where certain amounts of clams spawn instead of just wherever, like clam vending machines or something lol.
Thereve been so many times I’m running around trying to find clams, then three just spawn right next to their basket so I just run in and score real quick. Doesn’t really feel earned, and doesn’t really feel like it can be properly defended against.
I avoid Zones like the plague because of the special spam.
Yes thank you! I hate zones so much lol!
Easily the worst mode imo… and for many of the reasons you stated, tho I also believe spawncamping enabled by the map designs themselves is the reason “cheese specials” are even needed or viable. It was bad in past games, and it’s even worse in this game. I could never bring myself to play zones in anarchy series-I’m not gonna risk my rank on that garbage mode lol!
Yes, the mode being passive and having to go all the way to the middle to stop the count while all the other team has to do is spawn camp-or even simply nothing-is absolute garbage and easily the biggest flaw in any mode. It most definitely is evident that this was the first mode they made as it is so bad-and the kicker is that in 9 years it’s the only mode that’s never been reworked at all lol!
The best idea I believe I’ve ever come up with to salvage the mode would be to rework the mode to have checkpoints. The main zone in the middle would count for like 40 points, while two smaller checkpoint zones further into the enemy spawn that you have to keep control over in addition to the middle zone to continue to score points would be worth like 30 each (if someone slipped around the enemy team and took control of the middle zone while they’re counting down a checkpoint zone, the defending team would gain control and the enemy team have to go deal with that). This would make the mode more like all the other modes in that it has checkpoints and a reason to have to push up, which also makes comebacks for the team behind easier since you have to spread out and control more area of the map actively. Simply holding a team back from the middle is not enough to definitively deserve a win-a mode that ends in KO 80% of the time is inherently not a good mode. Having to hold the team all the way back while pushing up and being spread across the map? Much more fair, and KO’s much more deserved.
Any thoughts on all this? Thanks for reading!
(P.S. A zones only tournament sounds like torture I’d never play one of those lol!)
I think that's an interesting concept, but you do need to be careful with overhauling it. Otherwise I agree with you.
@ eh at this point zones is so far gone to me they can’t make it any worse lol
The issue isn’t other modes, the issue is the other modes on the games current map list. Zones is just the best across all maps it’s not the best format for the engine or the weapon meta. But these are the maps we’ve been given.
Def a fair point, thanks for contributing to the conversation. But like I said in the video, maplists can still be optimized imo. For example Scorch clams is a fairly good clams stage, or Rainmaker Rom-EN, etc
@ I totally agree but I’ve heard that the issue among the comp community has been that lots of players who’s mains matchup well into bad stages want to keep bad stages in the map list. There’s people who love the game and want compete with the game in its best form, and there’s people who want to win and will try to manipulate their environment to be advantageous before a match even starts.
Clams actually has cheese: You can Reefslider in front of the basket and give jumps - also, Vac can cheese Zone too
True, but it's way too niche imo and usually just gets everyone killed
I think you'll struggle to find anyone who thinks zones cheese is good, but I think that some of it is more attributed to poor balance rather than poor design. Reef in particular was just taken in the wrong direction and it sucks.
However, I think it's important to note that variety is key, both in what you're arguing for tournaments, but also for the game as a whole. Yes, the zone doesn't move, yes the mode is more special centric, but if you really think about it, most of the modes are. The whole game/meta is focused on using specials to give you an advantage- that's literally their point.
I think zones (minus cheese) is perfectly fine as it is because it's a different experience than the other modes. Clams has you gather things around the map to score in the opponents base. BOTH rainmaker and tower are just "bring this thing to this location over time". Zones is unique because it's about control of a location, and that's okay. It offers a unique challenge and it means you need to think about it slightly differently, making more gameplay variety.
Also as an extra note, most tournaments that I know of DO have a limited map list for teams to use/ban from, whether it's zones only or not, also adding variety in gameplay.
I got nothing to say. I totally agree with this tbh
As mostly a solo queue zones player, I like how zones is stationary (minus bluefin but that stage kinda sucks). Zones cheese is definitely a problem though, 100% agree with you on that.
I think the reason why zones only tournaments are so popular are that tournaments like area cup have stayed so long that a lot of comp players mostly look at that because it is one of the biggest and consistent tournaments. (I also like watching the vods later)
4:01 happened to me before and is quite literally why i just took a two break month from the game,losing to solo zones cheese strats is just the worst feeling ever and worst thing to grace this game
Slider cheese is so bad you had to take a 2 MONTH BREAK!?!? Holy shit I feel you though
I actually really like the CCA’s method. 5 predetermined map/modes, 2 of them are zones, and you strike 2 (it’s Bo3). That way, if you just want to play zones, you can strike the other stuff (mostly), but if you want to play the other modes you can
Not only the special spam, but losing a fight in zones is probably the most punishing in any of the modes.
You die and have to respawn, in that time you lose most of your special, your enemy gains map control and most likely gets their special, and now not only do you have to have to traverse half of the map just to get to the objective, but its all gonna be covered in enemy ink so the chance of you getting sharked is super high. And even if you get a pick, the enemy team will just respond with the specials they have. And in zones if you lose two fights, the timer ticks down so fast, you probably already lost if you didnt contest the zone. Whoever has control of the zones just has a HUGE attackers advantage, as they can spend every resource just preventing you from getting to the zone in the first place.
Thats why in solo queue I prefer tower control. Having someone have to physically be on a moving objective not only means more of the map is actually used and designed choke points get used properly at checkpoints, but also that you have to actually keep the objective in mind and position yourself in a vulnerable spot (the tower) to get points. You can't just get the objective and then focus on just fighting. There’s still some cheesy specials like kraken or something, but I feel like its way more fair then reefslider or ink strike.
Yeah zones is very punishing with lockouts and the stages don't help. For tower control, the only significant issues are the attackers passive special fill and the amount of things that cheese the tower. I had a creative idea one day that what if strikes and booyah bounced off the tower on Contact?
@notfallerr Hmmm I think ot would be a start, but then people would just throw then either near or around the tower, so odk of it'd be that impactful. I think any safe displacement specials will always be used for cheese.
Honestly I hope splatoon 4 dials back the displacement specials you can just throw in and focuses on more engaging ones.
@@rxy3699 Yeah that's pretty much why that's still a thought in my head. It's really hard to fix cheese when you have specials like that.
What I want to see for zones in S4 would be to remove the single zones. Double zones and the moving zone on bluefin make it more interesting. With double zones you have to stop two from being taken which is a lot harder than one massive zone. And bluefin just makes it more interesting fighting on the different sides of the map.
I hope they add a new mode in splat 4, but if they don’t I will be perfectly fine with duos or something like that.
how can people say zones is the best mode when tower control exists? 😤
Oh god
lol yes as bad as tower can be… zones is leagues worse
Zones is the least fun mode in the game this video has been long overdue
You're right about both things. This video is VERY MUCH long overdue 😭😭⏳️
@notfallerr hey, as a fellow "taking way too long to make a video"-er, i feel you
Turf War = tutorial mode for casuals
Turf War in one area of the map = perfect hyper competitive mode for true gamers
I heard the benefit of SZ are the variety of comps and weapons that are viable. Unlike CB and RM which heavily favor fast, high DPS comps.
But then you could say that zones favors painting comps (which it does sometimes tbh)
Order from ultrakill gave me ptsd from my first time playing man
FINALLY someone who doesn’t act like zones is the best mode ever
i never really liked zones tbh :/ it just feels so bland
All specials should paint 60% less on a splat zone
Could be an interesting change, but then there's the issue of accidentally putting stuff on the zone so it paints less
I only like splat zones because every other mode is hell in solo,in tower no one rides the tower,rainmaker I’m always having to get the rainmaker (while I’m a frontline player,meant to protect the carrier!) and clam blitz is….clam blitz. And even though the others suck,it’s honestly not that fun if you aren’t a frontline player. (I play chargers and splatanas,and can basically only play splatanas for zones.)
Zones in solo is interesting. I feel like it's a little more dependant on your team comp than in competitive. E.g. painting comps are more favored in solo zones
At least Bluefin deop the zone moves slightly closer to the spawn of the team with out control
Yeah now we just have to fix the rest of the stage 🤣🤣
@@notfallerr Agreed🤣
Holy shit your just like me, finally someone who isn't glazing Zones acting like it's amazing in this game. Don't get me wrong I loved it in previous games. But Zones in this game feels like Rainmaker in S2, games will end immediately if you die twice, the mode constantly makes you rush, with the one difference being you gotta run into mid with little to no map or paint control and take the zone back with the whole team setup, rather than them coming to you and being able to stop them by just sharking or cutting them off. I think most of hate on modes is completely overexaggerated, but Zones usually gets none of it. I don't even think the western community is capable of going Zones only, they can't agree on anything. Definitely getting a sub.
@@bignoob24 100% agree. Appreciate it! 🙏
Over time i realized the maps make SZ sooo much worse. The point of zones is to get farther ahead so the enemy team doesnt affect you AND the zone. But on some maps its basically just lock out the entire time or that there are no good places to hold from. It all devolves back to maps, doesn't it..
E.g. lemuria not having any way remotely close to the enemy plat unless your peeking under it which is very comp dependant
@@notfallerryes Lemuria is garbage lol
Imma be fr if I see pickle hug one more time i’m gonna track them down and make sure they get IP banned /j
LMAO I recorded this footage for this video specifically. Didn't expect to see pickle hug but I'm glad I did tbh !!
Ultrakill ost plus splatoon and w opinion this is a peak video
Zones is my least favorite, clams is my absolute favorite. Fight me
I'm willing to hear you out. What's your reasoning? I'm not trying to invalidate your opinion I'm just curious
@notfallerr a you said, it's just an opinion I suppose. Clams just feels funner, and I don't know why.
@@notfallerrI very much enjoy playing brushes, which gives me the extra mobility needed to score more easily in clams. You’ve actually got to take control of the map, then time having clams with being a man or two up from them, in order to get a good push in to score, all while ensuring no one slips past your defense and scores behind your back. Winning on clams actually feels like it’s earned.
In zones, however, you just spawncamp the other team for a minute and it ends for you. Any ol’ schmuck can just get lucky or unlucky for no reason lol.
zones cheese is super painful but i feel like it isn't tooooo much of a problem (at least in top level) cuz of its inconsistencies !!
I see where you're coming from, but genuinely what do you do against a person who knows how to time their strikes
@ it is annoying to be forced to fall back and paint but it is possible to paint over them !
1:07 they actually made it so it doesn’t camp zone
2:40
YO I JUST KNOCKED OUT ON PICKLE HUG IN ZONES AND GOT TOP 500
NICE BRO THATS WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT!!!
@@notfallerr MY FIRST TIME GETTING TOP 500 OTHER THAN THE BEGINNING OF THE SEASON
@T1StampMan10 keep up the grind man love to hear it 💯
You got it!
as someone who has been grinding solo queue zones in japan, (2642 xp) and plays zones only formats in tourney and scrims, I never feel the stress of the counter and zones feels like the most skillful mode out of all of them, its simple, cap zone(s) diff the other team and hold, on defense you spam bomb and take advantage of people pushing you, the only thing thats bad about the mode is strikes and slider being prominent, besides that the mode is by far the best in the game
oh and only cheese special that doesnt have counterplay is slider
you can paint over strikes
Strikes and slider is what I was mostly calling the mode out for (other than zones only which isn't an issue with the mode), and the counter was based off my personal experience with it, as I said in the video. Also, some people are extremely good at timing their strikes for no reason, but I will agree that you can paint over the strikes most of the time, when it's only the strikes painting the zone.
@@notfallerr ontop of that, that really isnt a mode issue and its more like the specials just being overtuned for no reason besides that, the specials are hella overtuned for no reason zones is easily the easiest to understand hard to master mode in the game imo
Clam blitz is the worst but I like tower control
good video but the bg music is too loud
also zone can be really boring on solo Q
Who has more paint on their comp ahh battle
hot take: aerospray or jr on zones can be viable
Gonna disagree with that. While aerospray and junior paint a lot, aerospray gets bullied by midlines and pencil (which is what's picked atm), and Jr does have bubble and DOES see some use, but it's usually not picked because you can just play a splattershot or N-zap.
@@notfallerri mean if you have an aerospray running around painting and nothing else with a hell ton of run speed or ink eff or even qr if they die a lot they might be able to keep zone painted enough
@@AYYXBICTOAN I mean sure but that's basically like having a player down. You're not only trying to keep the zone painted, you also need to have a man advantage and hold down space. If you really want zone paint and smth with a useful special, shot, N-zap, or decavitator would be much better
@@notfallerr yeah thats 100% right
The issue isn't zones. It's splatoon 3 terrible maps. When almost all of the maps have 0 flank routes/side routes, and just try to funnel and trap everyone into mid, yeah, special cycling is gonna be the main strat since it's the only reliable and safe option.
All the modes have suffered due to the bad maps. Splat zones just suffered the least, as the other modes border on being unplayable on a lot of the maps in this game. Tower and Rain especially.
There's a lot more I could've covered in this video tbh, and this is one of those things. I have no issue with using specials to retake, as you said, the map design basically forces that, but it's the win condition specials that are the issue
@notfallerr you're right about zones cheese being annoying. But Specials can be used to cheese the other modes too, so specials being a problem isn't really exclusive to just zones.
I'll still point to the maps as the main issue, as if they were good, then we probably would see the other modes get banned. It's just a case of one option hurting less than the others. And I love clams. (It's my favorite mode)
I'd agree that only seeing zone is very boring, but again, the other modes function way less with these maps that zones is the best option.
Tower matches snowball like crazy.
Rain often only has a single route to take, even if the map gives an illusion of another route.
And Clams are often just 10 minute stalemates. Or one team scores early than play defense for the remainder of the match.
@@bluetoad6848 On the topic of cheesing on other modes, the only other mode where specials are a 'win condition' is tower control. For RM and CB, you'd have to use them more strategically.
For zones being the best option, I see this differently now so thanks for that, but I do think we could experiment a bit with mode diversity in events. Especially with the speed of the game at the top level, it could be interesting.
rizzcallie
RIZZCALLIE!!!
@@notfallerr the goat fr
I LOVE TOWER CONTROL TOWER FOR THE DOUBLE U TOWER CONTROL HAS ZERO FLAWS WHATSOEVER ANYOTHER MODE IS HOT TRASH AND I HATE IT TOWER CONTROL IS THE ONLY PLAYABLE MODE (:
I feel like zones also has the same problem as turf as in the last 30 seconds mostly matter
I can see where you're coming from with that, but it's only really some of the time when you get wiped in the last 30 seconds. You can still come back in 30 seconds if you're fast enough getting your specials
@ that’s true
I stopped watching JP streamers because all they do is play zones and it seems most content is about that boring ass mode. I'm Clam Blitz biased.
And you know, Clam Blitz has been done dirty because the matchmaking is flawed. People in X rank waste pity clams, make super clams before they're half the way into the rival's basket, etc.
If only there was a way to be assured your teammates know not to hold super clams all the time because it literally reveals their positions.
idk, man. A lot of these points (especially the first one) kinda just seem like your opinion. It's fine to just say you don't like the mode, but framing the mode as "poorly designed" because of your own personal experience seems a bit close-minded.
Also, no, people talk about their problems with zones all the time. It's probably the mode I see the most hate towards online, especially now that zones-only is the average tourney format. I have my own gripes with the mode (mainly zones cheese), but I don't think two specials with not-so-great designs are enough to call a mode "bad".
The first section is supposed to be me expressing my opinion (I literally said " The thing 'I' dislike", and "I personally don't think"), and I never called the mode poorly designed. The main focus of the video is the specials used in zones, and zones only formatting for events.
I specifically said that you can prove me wrong about no one discussing the issues in the video, because that was just me trying to say I haven't seen anyone really talking about it especially prominent players in the scene.
@@notfallerr Ok, thanks for the clarification! The video seemed a bit more focused on calling zones itself bad, but it seems that wasn't the intention. In that case, I do fully agree with you! Reefslider and Tri-strike definitely have overtuned paint, and should be nerfed (while buffing reefslider in other ways because oh my god the special NEEDS it).
GYYYYA-
Thankyou for coming to my Ted Talk
shhhhhhh