My uncle had an early Phaeton V10 TDI when they were new. One day he dropped his daughter off at the airport and she closed the boot manually before he could prevent her from doing that, it had to be closed automatically with the button. He had to call Volkswagen assistance to reset the computer, because the car thought the boot was still open and refused to open it.
I totally get that it almost happened to me a couple of weeks ago . There is a module just to control the boot mine malfunctioned so had to replace it . I opened the faulty one and it had 7 chips inside it... for a boot!
@@paulwayman4579I've heard that the first generation Phaeton had a fundamental flaw: software of the car's peripherals, even the infotainment, could interfere with the car's vital functions, because they were all interconnected. Apparently my uncle had one of those early cars. He had to get rid of the car for other reasons: the V10 TDI was a beast of an engine, but failed to meet LEZ compliancy (no DPF), so he couldn't drive it home, as he lived in an "Umweltzone". The last car he owned was a Mercedes E250 CDI which he bought new in 2013, which had a much smaller engine, but a Mercedes none the less.
Back in the early 2010s I was working a lot with a firm in Hannover. Whenever I flew out to see them, they would send either an S class or a Phaeton to pick me up from the airport. I always hoped it would be the Phaeton - good as the S class was, the ride and isolation you felt being taken around in the Phaeton was on another level. 200kph on the autobahn felt like nothing, you could converse in normal speech as the world passed by like you were watching a film on fast forward. A truly great car, thanks Matt for the review .
I've had several cars for the last 20 years including big SUVs (ML, Cayenne, X5) about 7 BMWs (5 series, 6 series), I've driven most of the common luxury cars from most manufacturers. I was not sure about owning a big saloon though, I've driven the S class, 7 series, A8, Panamera, all having ups and downs for my taste. It all depends of what you expect from the car to offer. If you want sportiness, Panamera is the best! To be honest, I think S class is the best in offering ride quality and comfort, but the car that can offer similar feeling as the Merc, is the Phaeton. I've just bought one with 50k miles on the clock, and it feels and smells like a brand new car, even after 10 years. The ride quality and the comfort are out of this world, but hey, It has Bentley's suspension so it makes sense! I was able to "swallow" the VW badge because this car is all about the inside..It feels like a big boat floating on the sea. You can understand why Piech built a factory just for this car, materials and details are premium. I would not compare this car to A8 and 7 series that feel cheaper, it stays on the same level as Bentley and S class, a true high-end vehicle, the only problem is the badge, but this badge owns Audi, Porsche, Bentley and Lamborghini so...
I didn’t get these at all when they launched - like many others I thought it was just a jumped up Passat - but when you delve into the engineering, you start to see what a tour de force these things are. Like the Lexus LS400, I honestly feel that the Phaeton moved the luxury car game on considerably.
I remember the first time i saw a Phaeton irl. At first glance, sideeye because i was navigating in another direction, i thought it was a B3 Passat, but then i noticed the size of it. Man the Phaetons are big! Anyways.. I've liked them from back when i watched Jeremy Clarkson tell us about it on Top Gear. ..and if i were in the market for such a luxury barge back then, it would have taken a lot to drag me away from a Phaeton. I thought the exact opposite of why most people didn't want it. That it's cool that it flies under the radar for most people, leaving me to enjoy my top tier car. Sadly we do hear "interesting" things about how expensive these cars are to keep running, if anything goes wrong...and apparently many people's Phaetons do go wrong. That part i'm less enthusiastic about.
I have had one for the last 10 years and 145k miles quite a journey! wonderful when working but EGR and DPF issues were a nightmare going into limp mode every 200 miles. All air suspension has been replaced and its on its fourth compressor. Main dealers don't want to know so it is a case of finding a brave garage. Far too complicated for its own good🙄
I've been in my Aunty's friends one when new I was a teenager, I was impressed by the red ambient lighting, not much else I preferred my Dad's 96 XJ for ambience.
My 2009 Audi A8 3.0 TDi has that V6 TDi with 229 bhp and it is a fine engine. It has an avalanche of torque and averages 34 mpg or up to 42 mpg at motorway speed. The Phaeton on the other hand seems to be like an A8 Ghia or Vanden Plas. A real class act. Good old Ferdinand really did beat BMW and Mercedes and he did it with a big Volkswagen too.
The logo in the clock won't be a Bentley logo, it'll be a Breitling logo, which is a very similar pair of stylised wings with a B in the middle (albeit superimposed over a ship's anchor).
I remember being in the back of one a couple of times years ago. My dad's mate used to own a lwb top spec v10 tdi one from 2005 I think but what made it special is that it was one of the 4 seater ones with the centre console in the rear and massage seats. He even used the car for towing a car trailer haha. I do have a soft spot for them, but I would hate to own one if it goes wrong.
When these were released with the Touareg, there were only 2 vw dealers in Scotland that could supply/service them, they said because of ramp weight restrictions at the time. My parents looked at Touaregs back in 2005 but our local dealer couldn’t supply or service so they went for an XC90 instead
This is the most opulent Volkswagen I’ve ever seen!!. I’ve never had an experience of a Phaeton, apart from seeing one on the road. Thank you Matt, for expanding my knowledge and understanding of this beautiful car, not forgetting it’s equally unusual name❤.
I work as a Chauffeur in Munich and we had Phaeton's and they were the best car for the job at the time, better even than our A8's and S-classes. It was a shame for us when they dropped them. There is in effect a Phaeton 2 but it's a China only model. The climate control is still the best I've ever come across and better than a current S-class.
Phaeton never been better than A8. A8 has better quality, magnificent exterior, better technology, alu chassis, lighter vehicle, and most important NAME.
@@Enko063 how many years have you worked as a Chauffeur using these vehicles. I said it was better for our use because amongst other things it has a better shaped boot able to fit more suitcase combinations and the HVAC system cools or warms the cabin MUCH faster than the A8 at the time.
@@Enko063 A8 not in the same league as a phaeton. It’s a mass produced car on a smaller chassis. This was completely hand built and as stiff as a Lamborghini of that period. Vastly superior cruiser than an A8, good car that an A8 is.
Original development was driven primarily by internal VW-Audi rivalry. The VW boss could not accept that there was an Audi-branded car (A8) without at least a VW comparator. Then he wanted it to be better than the Audi, so the engines had to be bigger (hence the 5-litre diesel and 6-litre petrol options), the comfort superior (because it was also going to underpin Bentleys) and every innovation had to be implemented on this ahead of any other model. The only aspect that they didn't emulate was the Audi aluminium architecture, hence it was heavier (but also less expensive to repair). I don't know if this choice was forced by budgetary constraints or because a steel structure would enhance refinement (this being pitched against D-B rather than BMW). Then they couldn't get a gearbox that could handle V10 TDI (development cars had 1000Nm torque and destroyed gearboxes within 500 miles), so they eventually had to detune the engine instead. While they were struggling with this problem, they took the opportunity to nitpick over modules from from suppliers, causing ever more aggravation (I worked for one module supplier) because development costs continued rising and the launch date was always being delayed. The logic of that engine was unfathomable - diesels are supposed to be an economy option, but this was only good for about 13mpg, so I heard. The W12 was the ultimate halo car - with the requirement to be able to run at 186mph whilst maintaining a perfect interior climate, for instance. I understand that they really could achieve that speed and the Bentley sisters were good for 195-200mph with turbocharging. When it was launched, it had Bentley sisters (to which my employer supplied identical modules), but Bentley were not permitted to request any module design changes unless those changes were also appropriate to the Phaeton. Once it became clear that the Bentleys were outselling the Phaeton by about 10 to 1, VW had to accept that Bentley would take the lead. Ignore the badge - it was the best luxury car you could get at the time when it was launched. The only proviso was that it may have been half the price of a Bentley sister, but it would cost every bit as much to own as a Bentley.
I think the biggest let down would be spending all that money and having to explain to everyone that it’s not a Passat! 😂 Great work as always and very entertaining. Cheers Pat 🇦🇺
Imagine the same badge snobbery in 1947 when buying a new expensive Italian sports car:' That red car with a prancing horse logo? No, thanks! The car is fine, in fact it is excellent. But it has the wrong badge!'
I drove the Phaeton almost on a daily basis when I wrote my thesis at VW, at the department that calibrated the W-engines. It took me a while to fully appreciate it, at first the tautness of the suspension is surprising, it seems anything but soft, and doesn't lean the least bit. Drive it longer and the absence of bumps becomes apparent. It's supremely comfortable yet feeling taut, almost sporty at the same time. The W12 engine makes an unremarkable, humming noise. Despite that it's quite a high revving engine (max power at 6000) the 5-speed box keeps rpm's low. It is not fun to drive, but it is like a perfect butler, it does not draw any attention, does not beg to be driven a certain way, but it is probably the ideal long distance cruiser. Drive the Passat W8 and it feels like it was built by a different company, in terms of driving the similarities are zero. It is not the loss many people think, as it is basically a Bentley Continental GT underneath except that the Bentley has the turbocharged version of the W12 engine. VW's site was full of Bentleys at that time. BTW even the 420ps W12 would top 300km/hr when not limited, I heard this several times from different persons. IMHO a very impressive car!
A excellent review as always Matt, not a huge VW fan but nice to learn about this car, if i had to bave the diesel it would have to the V10 diesel if its the same engine thats in the Toureg coupled with a nice aftermarket exhaust system.
Yep, but that engine isnt without its problems to say the least... But if you can keep it in shape, its pretty cool indeed. Should have gotten the V12 from the Q7, would be even sweeter.
A bit like 2000s Fiat 130 saloon, the phaeton: as many have already mentioned an expensive luxury saloon that looked too strikingly like a bigger version of one their (far) cheaper saloons. I'm not sure about the brand snobbery issue, though: also in 2002 Volkswagen released the expensive-for-them touareg and that was a success. May of course have had something to do with the early premium-SUV-factor of it. Nice review, this, seeing that interior makes me understand the phaeton a little better; however, I still wouldn't have a clue why I would want one, especially with Bentley-like maintenance and repair costs (not coincidentally). Jack form Nr 27 recently did a comparison between a phaeton and a Bentley continental.
Some of the parts you described as chrome, aren't chrome. The stalk tios won't be machined chromium, it's very difficult to machine with precision. More likely to be aluminium or steel
Was never a fan of these. Every example i experienced in the trade had numorous electric gremlins - sometimes just because you can - you shouldn't. If they'd have spent as much time sorting out the quality in depth rather than on the surface it might have stood a better chance.
What a remarkable car, early examples of which can be found on Autotrader for less than £3,000 (in mid 2023) with just 100k on the clock or less !! Astonishing.
They really are a bargain as a used car. My 2012 3.0TDI cost me £5,600 last March. However I always tell prospective owners to expect to pay for deferred maintenance to keep them at their best such as suspension bushes and more detailed servicing. I’ve put 22,000 miles on the car and counting so far. All it’s needed is a DPF sensor
Volkswagen should have gone with some other brand name to market this car. Maybe even invent a new brand like Toyota did with Lexus. And the most disappointing thing for the owner was that this car just looked like a super big Passat.
There wasn't really a need to introduce a new brand, they had Audi, and Audi sold the A8 and A8L on this platform. They should have just sold that alone instead of alongside the Phaeton.
"And the most disappointing thing for the owner was that this car just looked like a super big Passat." Wasn't that the whole point? It was a "super" Passat of sorts for when your W8-powered Passat was too small/not luxurious enough/not expensive enough to repair!
What a beautiful car. They only needed to come up with a luxurious sounding brand name. After all, Lexus drivers do not want to be reminded that they are driving a Toyota.
"They only needed to come up with a luxurious sounding brand name" VW already bought Auto Union back in the 60's though, settling on calling the cars Audi rather than Horsch or one of the other Auto Union brands. This car however was all about taking VW itself upmarket. Toyota's flagship Toyota Century (and the lesser Toyota Crown) do not carry Lexus badging and nor do they need to.
Interesting to watch and listen to. Although, to be honest, if I could afford luxury level driving, I'd prefer a Bentley. Maybe it's the exterior, but it just looks like a Passat trying to be an S class or a Rolls to me. For what (I presume) you'd have to pay for a good one, I'd rather have the S class or Bentley, personally.
"...where the edges are." The edges are in the hedges. Salvage Rebuilds UK had one (I think? trouble with the insanely over-engineered trunk linkage). Maybe that was a Bentley. Either way: nightmare.
Great Matt just bought one month ago really happy with car I find it great family car with two boys they love car and comfortable seats in back big thumbs up for channel 🤗
If you look at the part numbers on modules etc... you will find they are the same as used in Bentley cars.... this was in effect a poor man's Bentley....
Really an image problem I guess... . And looking at the electric window switches I can be proud of having Phaeton parts in my Skoda Fabia II... or vice versa... 😂😂😂
Excellent overview and test drive. Thank you. Interior is lot nicer then W220 2006 S class plastic panels and tiny buttons Benz. Too bad VW didn’t put much of an effort on exterior design. Good luck maintaining all the computer modules and other doodads. That briefcase is overkill. At the end it's still “cheap” used Volkswagen.
This would have been better off badged as an Audi as the Audi badge has more Kudos for competing with BMW and Mercedes. It was without doubt one of the best cars in the world, tarnished with a mass market badge. VW (people’s car).
The Phaeton did exactly what it set out to do. The Phaeton was basically a test bed for Bentley. VW had never really done an ultra luxury car. The A8 is a very nice car. The A8 is not in the Bentley/Rolls Royce class. An unreliable Bentley would cripple the brand. A bad VW ultra luxury saloon doesn't affect VW. VW had a chance to iron out problems without really affecting any customer base.
It looks like a Passat, but I don't think it shares that many parts with the Passat apart from the W8 petrol engine or 3L TDI engine options. At that time (2005), the Passat was based on the Audi A4. The more recent Passat is based on the Golf and is a much cheaper platform with a transverse engine.
@@TassieLorenzo unfortunately, it's the looks that matter to a lot of people. We've heard from many that it is indeed the better car. Chauffeur Companies used them, as they were quality automobiles. But, if you have money, or get money and, covet a luxury car, its unlikely to be a volkswagen that you'll spend your money on. The smart person might do so. Most would buy something else, Bentley-like, just to say they have one. It was a brave move from VW, as they knew all this and, did it anyway 🙂
But Range Rover's are so 'common'. Where I worked the chairman bought a Pheaton, said it was the best car he ever had, because it didn't say ' I've got money', he took his parents for a drive, who were used to Jaguars and Rolls-Royce. He told me they would not believe it was a Volkswagen and it was the best car they had travelled in. Sadly the majority of the public just didn't 'get it'.
They’re not quite that bad. I average 32mpg in my 3.0tdi on a combined cycle and over 40 on a motorway run. Tax is £695 for 2006-2009 cars but all the facelifts are one bracket down so ‘only’ £395
Awfully many ashtrais in a car that just thinking about lightning any kind of sigarett, sigars or esig should sentence you to 50 years without perole on St Helena Island!
These were known as tge VW Pheaton if is was just known as the Pheaton l think they would have sold more an example is Toyota with there sub brand Lexus and there are no Lexuses sold in Japan they are Toyotas and another sub brand is the Toyota Century which is what it is known by but the Century has no Toyota logos or Toyota written any were that's were VW Pheaton failed if they had removed the VW logo they probably would have sold a lot more any way the Toyota been reliable reliability is a luxury
All VW had to do was stick an AUDI badge on this and change the name to A6 maybe and it would have sold in bucket loads. Not like they did not own Audi. Thats the real reason this never sold. Now if VW had of done this and not owned Audi it would be different. It might have even sold better too if margeted right.
Correction Matt ? The Phaeton car came many years before the son of a Greek God for sure 😉, Ian Hubnut told me and Ian being a Greek God himself should know 😂.
I fully understand your reasoning - but isn't a sad thing about mankind that, however brilliant your engineering might be, the ultimate purchasing decision will depend on the aaahs and ooohs you get when you drop the keys in front of your golf club chums? Adore arrogance, discourage humble origins - it's why some countries still suck up to monarchs and how folks like Bernie Madoff skimmed billions without anyone ever going through a thorough due diligence.
this is a real thing of beauty, the real luxury, not making everyone notice it but being actually the very best linusine of the entire vw brand of the time! it's pretty much a German answer to toyota century, too bad we are dumbasses and can't appricieante a car for what it is unless it has a premium brand even if that premium brand is kinda shitty like audi....
Matt sounded like the horn has had its PARP REMOVED 🥲, how sad and in a car that size I would want the Ocean Liner deep low parp so much more in making a Parpy announcement.
A friend had one of these in Belgium when they first came out, we where military and you'd get offered bizarre tax free deals on high end cars. He used one as a diplomatic car and fell in love with it. He went to the tax free dealer and said see how much they are...he paid (I believe) an astonishing £27,000 for a car that retailed at over £80k with the options on it. It was a glorious car, that V12 engine was sublime (tax free fuel meant big cars where not an issue, a 200 litre fuel card was about €30). He sold it after a year to Park Lane London for just over £50k. It was at its best on the Autobahn on long journeys, I took it to Prague and back once...easiest long drive I've ever had.
I guess it depends on what you mean by "tax free", but if you arent inlcuding "big discounts" into it, just skipping any and all taxes in any country wont take the price down to those levels, not even close. Just in case there was some confusion.
@GoldenCroc NATO concessions were far greater than just no tax. New models of cars were discounted to get them out in potentially high sales and prominant social circles. The law was changed in 2002/3 only allowing one Tax Free purchase every 2 years instead of 6 months.
@@charliemansonUK Yep, thats what I meant. Some people not familiar with how it works might have thought the "tax free" part of your post meant they literally were untaxed, i.e. 0% but having no other discounts. Anyway, those were some nice discounts you got for sure. 👍
The D1 Platform does not underpin the A8, and it does not underpin the Panemera (that platform predates VWs ownership of Porsche). It was designed exclusively for the Phaeton; the Bentley was a late edition to help spread the (tremendous) cost.
Correct about the platform sharing, but incorrect about Bentley. The Phaeton was decidedly used to front the development cost for the first all-new model under VW ownership. And in doing so made Bentley profitable overnight. A brilliant move by Piech and one that he sadly does not often get credit for
@@jacobgreenmanedlion1863Yes. Exactly. Because the Phaeton was the test bed for the first new Bentley model under VW’s ownership. So VW used the Phaeton to develop what would later become the Continental GT and Flying Spur
Yeah, awesome car. It is just, nobody exists anymore, who can work on it. We have one specialty shop in Germany, and that is it. I brought my V10 model to three VW shops. None seem to have a clue what they were dealing with. And parts for it? Forget it. I had hoses and fittings hand made by a specialty shop, because you could not buy them anymore as a spare part. The car was in shops for months, the mechanics trying to get any parts from any source. I ended up doing a lot of the work myself. The front rotors , $ 1000. And before you buy one, sit in it, because you really can't be too tall as a driver. Just try it out. Especially the W12 and V10 Phaeton are insanely engineered vehicles. As such, you must realize that for tiny engine work, you might have to remove the entire engine. So is it worth it? As a car enthusiast, absolutely. Just be prepared. These are vehicles, the manufacturer really wants to forget. If you want one for the long run, buy three instead, have some skills and a place to wrench. It is worth it because it's a unique piece of automotive history and will only go up in value, like a Porsche GT or something like that. It might still take 25 years before it happens, but it will. At that point, people at car meetings will show up with their Bentleys, Koenigsegg, even their Veyrons. And you pull up in your VW Phaeton V10 and will see everyone's jaw drop. Because they will know the history of this car and they will also want to know, how in the world is this vehicle still running. Who is this crazy person?
I didn't realize the Phaeton had stayed in production so long. But it seems to be a very solid, well built car. Indeed the badge let it down and probably the fact that when it was introduced people weren't buying "big" cars from volume manufacturers anymore.
My uncle had an early Phaeton V10 TDI when they were new. One day he dropped his daughter off at the airport and she closed the boot manually before he could prevent her from doing that, it had to be closed automatically with the button. He had to call Volkswagen assistance to reset the computer, because the car thought the boot was still open and refused to open it.
I totally get that it almost happened to me a couple of weeks ago . There is a module just to control the boot mine malfunctioned so had to replace it . I opened the faulty one and it had 7 chips inside it... for a boot!
@@paulwayman4579I've heard that the first generation Phaeton had a fundamental flaw: software of the car's peripherals, even the infotainment, could interfere with the car's vital functions, because they were all interconnected. Apparently my uncle had one of those early cars. He had to get rid of the car for other reasons: the V10 TDI was a beast of an engine, but failed to meet LEZ compliancy (no DPF), so he couldn't drive it home, as he lived in an "Umweltzone". The last car he owned was a Mercedes E250 CDI which he bought new in 2013, which had a much smaller engine, but a Mercedes none the less.
Like my mechanic would sigh and then say, ''overengineering mate''.
Back in the early 2010s I was working a lot with a firm in Hannover. Whenever I flew out to see them, they would send either an S class or a Phaeton to pick me up from the airport. I always hoped it would be the Phaeton - good as the S class was, the ride and isolation you felt being taken around in the Phaeton was on another level. 200kph on the autobahn felt like nothing, you could converse in normal speech as the world passed by like you were watching a film on fast forward. A truly great car, thanks Matt for the review .
A film on fast forward with audio on mute!
The main issue with the Phaeton is that to the untrained eye, it just looks like a jumped up Passat.
Agreed!
For me that’s a plus point.
@@51StPi But for badge snobs it's the worst thing in the world.
@@snoopy-XV208 And who wants that?!
For people paying their money at this price point, badge is everything. They'd rather have a worse car, with the right badge
I've had several cars for the last 20 years including big SUVs (ML, Cayenne, X5) about 7 BMWs (5 series, 6 series), I've driven most of the common luxury cars from most manufacturers.
I was not sure about owning a big saloon though, I've driven the S class, 7 series, A8, Panamera, all having ups and downs for my taste. It all depends of what you expect from the car to offer. If you want sportiness, Panamera is the best! To be honest, I think S class is the best in offering ride quality and comfort, but the car that can offer similar feeling as the Merc, is the Phaeton.
I've just bought one with 50k miles on the clock, and it feels and smells like a brand new car, even after 10 years. The ride quality and the comfort are out of this world, but hey, It has Bentley's suspension so it makes sense! I was able to "swallow" the VW badge because this car is all about the inside..It feels like a big boat floating on the sea. You can understand why Piech built a factory just for this car, materials and details are premium. I would not compare this car to A8 and 7 series that feel cheaper, it stays on the same level as Bentley and S class, a true high-end vehicle, the only problem is the badge, but this badge owns Audi, Porsche, Bentley and Lamborghini so...
Funny thing I saw, one of these where the owner had rearranged the letters on the back to say phat one
I didn’t get these at all when they launched - like many others I thought it was just a jumped up Passat - but when you delve into the engineering, you start to see what a tour de force these things are. Like the Lexus LS400, I honestly feel that the Phaeton moved the luxury car game on considerably.
I remember the first time i saw a Phaeton irl. At first glance, sideeye because i was navigating in another direction, i thought it was a B3 Passat, but then i noticed the size of it. Man the Phaetons are big! Anyways.. I've liked them from back when i watched Jeremy Clarkson tell us about it on Top Gear. ..and if i were in the market for such a luxury barge back then, it would have taken a lot to drag me away from a Phaeton. I thought the exact opposite of why most people didn't want it. That it's cool that it flies under the radar for most people, leaving me to enjoy my top tier car. Sadly we do hear "interesting" things about how expensive these cars are to keep running, if anything goes wrong...and apparently many people's Phaetons do go wrong. That part i'm less enthusiastic about.
Of course it would go wrong it's a VW.
Could this be the ultimate Brave Pill?
I have had one for the last 10 years and 145k miles quite a journey! wonderful when working but EGR and DPF issues were a nightmare going into limp mode every 200 miles. All air suspension has been replaced and its on its fourth compressor. Main dealers don't want to know so it is a case of finding a brave garage. Far too complicated for its own good🙄
Compressor overworks if the air sistem has leaks, to maintain the hight of the vehicle, that's why they fail. Suspension should be checked regularly.
Lest we forget the Dutton Phaeton. A Cortina/Escort based (or whatever you like) fibre glass estate kit car! 🙂
I've been in my Aunty's friends one when new I was a teenager, I was impressed by the red ambient lighting, not much else I preferred my Dad's 96 XJ for ambience.
My 2009 Audi A8 3.0 TDi has that V6 TDi with 229 bhp and it is a fine engine. It has an avalanche of torque and averages 34 mpg or up to 42 mpg at motorway speed.
The Phaeton on the other hand seems to be like an A8 Ghia or Vanden Plas. A real class act.
Good old Ferdinand really did beat BMW and Mercedes and he did it with a big Volkswagen too.
The logo in the clock won't be a Bentley logo, it'll be a Breitling logo, which is a very similar pair of stylised wings with a B in the middle (albeit superimposed over a ship's anchor).
I remember being in the back of one a couple of times years ago. My dad's mate used to own a lwb top spec v10 tdi one from 2005 I think but what made it special is that it was one of the 4 seater ones with the centre console in the rear and massage seats. He even used the car for towing a car trailer haha. I do have a soft spot for them, but I would hate to own one if it goes wrong.
When these were released with the Touareg, there were only 2 vw dealers in Scotland that could supply/service them, they said because of ramp weight restrictions at the time. My parents looked at Touaregs back in 2005 but our local dealer couldn’t supply or service so they went for an XC90 instead
This is the most opulent Volkswagen I’ve ever seen!!.
I’ve never had an experience of a Phaeton, apart from seeing one on the road.
Thank you Matt, for expanding my knowledge and understanding of this beautiful car, not forgetting it’s equally unusual name❤.
I work as a Chauffeur in Munich and we had Phaeton's and they were the best car for the job at the time, better even than our A8's and S-classes. It was a shame for us when they dropped them. There is in effect a Phaeton 2 but it's a China only model.
The climate control is still the best I've ever come across and better than a current S-class.
Phaeton never been better than A8. A8 has better quality, magnificent exterior, better technology, alu chassis, lighter vehicle, and most important NAME.
@@Enko063 how many years have you worked as a Chauffeur using these vehicles. I said it was better for our use because amongst other things it has a better shaped boot able to fit more suitcase combinations and the HVAC system cools or warms the cabin MUCH faster than the A8 at the time.
@@Enko063 A8 not in the same league as a phaeton. It’s a mass produced car on a smaller chassis. This was completely hand built and as stiff as a Lamborghini of that period. Vastly superior cruiser than an A8, good car that an A8 is.
Original development was driven primarily by internal VW-Audi rivalry. The VW boss could not accept that there was an Audi-branded car (A8) without at least a VW comparator. Then he wanted it to be better than the Audi, so the engines had to be bigger (hence the 5-litre diesel and 6-litre petrol options), the comfort superior (because it was also going to underpin Bentleys) and every innovation had to be implemented on this ahead of any other model. The only aspect that they didn't emulate was the Audi aluminium architecture, hence it was heavier (but also less expensive to repair). I don't know if this choice was forced by budgetary constraints or because a steel structure would enhance refinement (this being pitched against D-B rather than BMW).
Then they couldn't get a gearbox that could handle V10 TDI (development cars had 1000Nm torque and destroyed gearboxes within 500 miles), so they eventually had to detune the engine instead. While they were struggling with this problem, they took the opportunity to nitpick over modules from from suppliers, causing ever more aggravation (I worked for one module supplier) because development costs continued rising and the launch date was always being delayed. The logic of that engine was unfathomable - diesels are supposed to be an economy option, but this was only good for about 13mpg, so I heard.
The W12 was the ultimate halo car - with the requirement to be able to run at 186mph whilst maintaining a perfect interior climate, for instance. I understand that they really could achieve that speed and the Bentley sisters were good for 195-200mph with turbocharging.
When it was launched, it had Bentley sisters (to which my employer supplied identical modules), but Bentley were not permitted to request any module design changes unless those changes were also appropriate to the Phaeton. Once it became clear that the Bentleys were outselling the Phaeton by about 10 to 1, VW had to accept that Bentley would take the lead.
Ignore the badge - it was the best luxury car you could get at the time when it was launched. The only proviso was that it may have been half the price of a Bentley sister, but it would cost every bit as much to own as a Bentley.
Owned a 2006 V10 5.0litre lwb 4 seater as a brief folly, just to appreciate the exquisite over engineering.
First time I ever saw the vents deploy - gorgeous action on them.
I think the biggest let down would be spending all that money and having to explain to everyone that it’s not a Passat! 😂
Great work as always and very entertaining.
Cheers Pat 🇦🇺
Imagine the same badge snobbery in 1947 when buying a new expensive Italian sports car:' That red car with a prancing horse logo? No, thanks! The car is fine, in fact it is excellent. But it has the wrong badge!'
Cars like this Will never be Made again 😢
I drove the Phaeton almost on a daily basis when I wrote my thesis at VW, at the department that calibrated the W-engines. It took me a while to fully appreciate it, at first the tautness of the suspension is surprising, it seems anything but soft, and doesn't lean the least bit. Drive it longer and the absence of bumps becomes apparent. It's supremely comfortable yet feeling taut, almost sporty at the same time. The W12 engine makes an unremarkable, humming noise. Despite that it's quite a high revving engine (max power at 6000) the 5-speed box keeps rpm's low. It is not fun to drive, but it is like a perfect butler, it does not draw any attention, does not beg to be driven a certain way, but it is probably the ideal long distance cruiser. Drive the Passat W8 and it feels like it was built by a different company, in terms of driving the similarities are zero. It is not the loss many people think, as it is basically a Bentley Continental GT underneath except that the Bentley has the turbocharged version of the W12 engine. VW's site was full of Bentleys at that time. BTW even the 420ps W12 would top 300km/hr when not limited, I heard this several times from different persons. IMHO a very impressive car!
The Continental GT is the showoff version of the Phaeton - very, very heavy cars.
An upgrade in audio and video equipment would make this one of the best car review channels on yt.
A excellent review as always Matt, not a huge VW fan but nice to learn about this car, if i had to bave the diesel it would have to the V10 diesel if its the same engine thats in the Toureg coupled with a nice aftermarket exhaust system.
Yep, but that engine isnt without its problems to say the least... But if you can keep it in shape, its pretty cool indeed. Should have gotten the V12 from the Q7, would be even sweeter.
I have a 2011 LWB 3.0tdi.
We should really stop sneering at the Austin 3 litre when manufacturers are/were making the same choices fifty odd years later.
A bit like 2000s Fiat 130 saloon, the phaeton: as many have already mentioned an expensive luxury saloon that looked too strikingly like a bigger version of one their (far) cheaper saloons. I'm not sure about the brand snobbery issue, though: also in 2002 Volkswagen released the expensive-for-them touareg and that was a success. May of course have had something to do with the early premium-SUV-factor of it. Nice review, this, seeing that interior makes me understand the phaeton a little better; however, I still wouldn't have a clue why I would want one, especially with Bentley-like maintenance and repair costs (not coincidentally). Jack form Nr 27 recently did a comparison between a phaeton and a Bentley continental.
Some of the parts you described as chrome, aren't chrome. The stalk tios won't be machined chromium, it's very difficult to machine with precision. More likely to be aluminium or steel
Always loved the Pheaton. Even when it was launched back in 2003 them boot aluminium struts look wonderful.
I'd have loved Ford to do this with Granada type reboot
Was never a fan of these. Every example i experienced in the trade had numorous electric gremlins - sometimes just because you can - you shouldn't. If they'd have spent as much time sorting out the quality in depth rather than on the surface it might have stood a better chance.
People buy the quality they can see and touch I guess.
Ah yes, the Phaeton. Meant to be leased and promptly disposed of at its end lol 😂
What a remarkable car, early examples of which can be found on Autotrader for less than £3,000 (in mid 2023) with just 100k on the clock or less !! Astonishing.
They really are a bargain as a used car. My 2012 3.0TDI cost me £5,600 last March.
However I always tell prospective owners to expect to pay for deferred maintenance to keep them at their best such as suspension bushes and more detailed servicing.
I’ve put 22,000 miles on the car and counting so far. All it’s needed is a DPF sensor
The main problem was that no one could tell the difference, from the outside, between the Phaeton and the Passat
Those boot hinges though.. 😍
I've seen one of those 8 UK models on a regular basis, the owner was on the same commute at the same times. Wafting along...
Parts cost a fortune.😂😮
Volkswagen should have gone with some other brand name to market this car. Maybe even invent a new brand like Toyota did with Lexus. And the most disappointing thing for the owner was that this car just looked like a super big Passat.
There wasn't really a need to introduce a new brand, they had Audi, and Audi sold the A8 and A8L on this platform. They should have just sold that alone instead of alongside the Phaeton.
@@damilolaakanni It make sense.
Perhaps they should have revived the Horch brand from Auto Union. But then it would have 'ranked higher' than Audi.
"And the most disappointing thing for the owner was that this car just looked like a super big Passat." Wasn't that the whole point? It was a "super" Passat of sorts for when your W8-powered Passat was too small/not luxurious enough/not expensive enough to repair!
What a beautiful car. They only needed to come up with a luxurious sounding brand name. After all, Lexus drivers do not want to be reminded that they are driving a Toyota.
"They only needed to come up with a luxurious sounding brand name" VW already bought Auto Union back in the 60's though, settling on calling the cars Audi rather than Horsch or one of the other Auto Union brands. This car however was all about taking VW itself upmarket. Toyota's flagship Toyota Century (and the lesser Toyota Crown) do not carry Lexus badging and nor do they need to.
Interesting to watch and listen to. Although, to be honest, if I could afford luxury level driving, I'd prefer a Bentley. Maybe it's the exterior, but it just looks like a Passat trying to be an S class or a Rolls to me. For what (I presume) you'd have to pay for a good one, I'd rather have the S class or Bentley, personally.
Nice car! Let me know if you like to compare it to a 2015 A8 LWB
"...where the edges are."
The edges are in the hedges.
Salvage Rebuilds UK had one (I think? trouble with the insanely over-engineered trunk linkage). Maybe that was a Bentley. Either way: nightmare.
Great Matt just bought one month ago really happy with car I find it great family car with two boys they love car and comfortable seats in back big thumbs up for channel 🤗
A year ago Autogefühl brought out a video of the VW Phaeton D2.
More likely that the clock has a VW logo inside Breitling wings rather than inside Bentley wings
If you look at the part numbers on modules etc... you will find they are the same as used in Bentley cars.... this was in effect a poor man's Bentley....
8:29 honk! honk!
Could you review the Arteon?
Great review, thank you! It's a fascinating car.
I like them. Slick looking car. I did actually see one recently, I bet it's a nice motorway muncher...
No table for back seat laptop?
Really an image problem I guess... . And looking at the electric window switches I can be proud of having Phaeton parts in my Skoda Fabia II... or vice versa... 😂😂😂
I have a Phaeton and jumped into a Lamborghini Aventador..the turn signal switches and wiper switches are 100% the same! 😂
One of my most favourite Vw car's. Maybe one day I will own one 😂.
Excellent overview and test drive. Thank you.
Interior is lot nicer then W220 2006 S class plastic panels and tiny buttons Benz. Too bad VW didn’t put much of an effort on exterior design. Good luck maintaining all the computer modules and other doodads. That briefcase is overkill. At the end it's still “cheap” used Volkswagen.
It id be nasty to call it a big passat...🙂
Hell of a car to buy second hand as it would deprecate like a rock🤗👍🇮🇪
This would have been better off badged as an Audi as the Audi badge has more Kudos for competing with BMW and Mercedes. It was without doubt one of the best cars in the world, tarnished with a mass market badge. VW (people’s car).
The Phaeton did exactly what it set out to do. The Phaeton was basically a test bed for Bentley. VW had never really done an ultra luxury car. The A8 is a very nice car. The A8 is not in the Bentley/Rolls Royce class. An unreliable Bentley would cripple the brand. A bad VW ultra luxury saloon doesn't affect VW. VW had a chance to iron out problems without really affecting any customer base.
you forgot to show the over-engineered boot struts🤔
Still a very impressive Motor car, plenty of presence
You forgot it has a dehumidifier built in and the boot lock disappears into the tailgate when open
The Phaeton is a legend!
Dynamic compression on the audio is really obtrusive once you notice it. Sounds like a waterfall being turned up and down. Nice car though.
It may not be fair to call it a folly, seeing as how the Bentley's adopted so much of the Phaetons platform.
You can big it up all day....its still a passat though, there's no getting away from that small but not insignificant detail
It looks like a Passat, but I don't think it shares that many parts with the Passat apart from the W8 petrol engine or 3L TDI engine options. At that time (2005), the Passat was based on the Audi A4. The more recent Passat is based on the Golf and is a much cheaper platform with a transverse engine.
@@TassieLorenzo unfortunately, it's the looks that matter to a lot of people. We've heard from many that it is indeed the better car. Chauffeur Companies used them, as they were quality automobiles. But, if you have money, or get money and, covet a luxury car, its unlikely to be a volkswagen that you'll spend your money on. The smart person might do so. Most would buy something else, Bentley-like, just to say they have one. It was a brave move from VW, as they knew all this and, did it anyway 🙂
Shame they didn't make sure the wiring and ECUs mounted to the bulkhead weren't sufficiently protected against water ingress.
Such oversights on super luxury cars are really unthinkable!
It's a lovely car but made little sense new unless your main priority was luxury that had to be stealthy.
Thanks for that.
I’d have really had to have been a big VW fan to buy one new. It just looks like a Passat from the outside. For that money I’d have had a Range Rover.
But Range Rover's are so 'common'. Where I worked the chairman bought a Pheaton, said it was the best car he ever had, because it didn't say ' I've got money', he took his parents for a drive, who were used to Jaguars and Rolls-Royce. He told me they would not believe it was a Volkswagen and it was the best car they had travelled in. Sadly the majority of the public just didn't 'get it'.
Newcastle Registered NG
Looking at an average 25mpg fuel and £695 Road tax for the 3L tdi
They’re not quite that bad. I average 32mpg in my 3.0tdi on a combined cycle and over 40 on a motorway run.
Tax is £695 for 2006-2009 cars but all the facelifts are one bracket down so ‘only’ £395
Beautiful car and another good video 🚘🚙🚗⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️👍👍👍👍👏👏👏👏👏
very ahead of its time it seems.
BTW Piëch is pronounced "Pee-egg" (more or less)
Awfully many ashtrais in a car that just thinking about lightning any kind of sigarett, sigars or esig should sentence you to 50 years without perole on St Helena Island!
If they’re the same as Skoda Superb then I’m sure the child buttons actually lock out the rear windows and doors
Also with the Phaeton the air condition at the rear is then locked, then only the front controls can adjust the settings for the rear.
These were known as tge VW Pheaton if is was just known as the Pheaton l think they would have sold more an example is Toyota with there sub brand Lexus and there are no Lexuses sold in Japan they are Toyotas and another sub brand is the Toyota Century which is what it is known by but the Century has no Toyota logos or Toyota written any were that's were VW Pheaton failed if they had removed the VW logo they probably would have sold a lot more any way the Toyota been reliable reliability is a luxury
All VW had to do was stick an AUDI badge on this and change the name to A6 maybe and it would have sold in bucket loads. Not like they did not own Audi. Thats the real reason this never sold. Now if VW had of done this and not owned Audi it would be different. It might have even sold better too if margeted right.
Very luxurious
Now Called Touareg
Correction Matt ? The Phaeton car came many years before the son of a Greek God for sure 😉, Ian Hubnut told me and Ian being a Greek God himself should know 😂.
Not even have a seen one, I have driven one. As an accident repair replacement vehicle, no less. No, really.
Left out Tea Shelferey availability.🤦♂
A four door Massey Ferguson
I fully understand your reasoning - but isn't a sad thing about mankind that, however brilliant your engineering might be, the ultimate purchasing decision will depend on the aaahs and ooohs you get when you drop the keys in front of your golf club chums?
Adore arrogance, discourage humble origins - it's why some countries still suck up to monarchs and how folks like Bernie Madoff skimmed billions without anyone ever going through a thorough due diligence.
this is a real thing of beauty, the real luxury, not making everyone notice it but being actually the very best linusine of the entire vw brand of the time! it's pretty much a German answer to toyota century, too bad we are dumbasses and can't appricieante a car for what it is unless it has a premium brand even if that premium brand is kinda shitty like audi....
Modern Dictator's Car LOL
sorry matt but you should not test outos as you are verry biased aganst them
These are unreliable and over complicated. If you want and older luxury car do not buy one of these. Buy a well cared for Lexus LS 400
Have you owned either?
I will love a lexus but I will love Phaeton more!
dear god, if you find time to do a video put your facts right please :D
Your background noise is irritating. Sort it.
Matt sounded like the horn has had its PARP REMOVED 🥲, how sad and in a car that size I would want the Ocean Liner deep low parp so much more in making a Parpy announcement.
Why did VW need this car they had audi and Bentley
A friend had one of these in Belgium when they first came out, we where military and you'd get offered bizarre tax free deals on high end cars.
He used one as a diplomatic car and fell in love with it.
He went to the tax free dealer and said see how much they are...he paid (I believe) an astonishing £27,000 for a car that retailed at over £80k with the options on it.
It was a glorious car, that V12 engine was sublime (tax free fuel meant big cars where not an issue, a 200 litre fuel card was about €30).
He sold it after a year to Park Lane London for just over £50k.
It was at its best on the Autobahn on long journeys, I took it to Prague and back once...easiest long drive I've ever had.
In the same fashion I knew a Frenchman who bought a Peugeot in the Netherlands to be cheaper (tax) than in France!
I guess it depends on what you mean by "tax free", but if you arent inlcuding "big discounts" into it, just skipping any and all taxes in any country wont take the price down to those levels, not even close. Just in case there was some confusion.
@GoldenCroc NATO concessions were far greater than just no tax.
New models of cars were discounted to get them out in potentially high sales and prominant social circles.
The law was changed in 2002/3 only allowing one Tax Free purchase every 2 years instead of 6 months.
@@charliemansonUK Yep, thats what I meant. Some people not familiar with how it works might have thought the "tax free" part of your post meant they literally were untaxed, i.e. 0% but having no other discounts. Anyway, those were some nice discounts you got for sure. 👍
its actually a W12
Impressive car! I remember seeing the glass factory during a tour in Dresden. They were very proud of that back then, around 2005
The D1 Platform does not underpin the A8, and it does not underpin the Panemera (that platform predates VWs ownership of Porsche). It was designed exclusively for the Phaeton; the Bentley was a late edition to help spread the (tremendous) cost.
Correct about the platform sharing, but incorrect about Bentley. The Phaeton was decidedly used to front the development cost for the first all-new model under VW ownership. And in doing so made Bentley profitable overnight. A brilliant move by Piech and one that he sadly does not often get credit for
@@fourings That is not correct; the Phaeton program substantially predates the Bentley.
@@jacobgreenmanedlion1863Yes. Exactly. Because the Phaeton was the test bed for the first new Bentley model under VW’s ownership. So VW used the Phaeton to develop what would later become the Continental GT and Flying Spur
Yeah, awesome car. It is just, nobody exists anymore, who can work on it. We have one specialty shop in Germany, and that is it. I brought my V10 model to three VW shops. None seem to have a clue what they were dealing with. And parts for it? Forget it. I had hoses and fittings hand made by a specialty shop, because you could not buy them anymore as a spare part. The car was in shops for months, the mechanics trying to get any parts from any source. I ended up doing a lot of the work myself. The front rotors , $ 1000.
And before you buy one, sit in it, because you really can't be too tall as a driver. Just try it out.
Especially the W12 and V10 Phaeton are insanely engineered vehicles. As such, you must realize that for tiny engine work, you might have to remove the entire engine. So is it worth it?
As a car enthusiast, absolutely. Just be prepared. These are vehicles, the manufacturer really wants to forget. If you want one for the long run, buy three instead, have some skills and a place to wrench. It is worth it because it's a unique piece of automotive history and will only go up in value, like a Porsche GT or something like that. It might still take 25 years before it happens, but it will. At that point, people at car meetings will show up with their Bentleys, Koenigsegg, even their Veyrons. And you pull up in your VW Phaeton V10 and will see everyone's jaw drop. Because they will know the history of this car and they will also want to know, how in the world is this vehicle still running. Who is this crazy person?
I didn't realize the Phaeton had stayed in production so long. But it seems to be a very solid, well built car. Indeed the badge let it down and probably the fact that when it was introduced people weren't buying "big" cars from volume manufacturers anymore.
Only 17 on auto trader and only 1 above 10k asking price, bargain?
A proper Uber barge when Uber meant something else ! 👍🤣