I am also very uncomfortable with the idea of “redeeming occult or New Age” practices. Deuteronomy 12:30 - don’t practice occult, don’t even inquire after their practices. Playing with strange fire if you ask me.
Oh they would argue that you are dead to the spirit… that only they are truly sensitive to…that you are constrained by an old dusty book. They’re the spiritual ones.
Gentlemen, even if weird occultic practices are addressed, and Blue Genie comments are addressed, they persist in weirdness, and keep having to address weirdness... with it being an ongoing matter, you have to question why they keep having to address these issues. Repetitive and embarrassing outgrowth of strange "fruit" is indicia of structural error. As someone who spent decades avoiding church because of abuses in a church with Bethel level weirdness, you have to understand how damaging their practices are.
Or, we could go with the Bible instead of your opinion...where the ox is at there will be constant messes to clean up... people make messes all the time in all churches... Bethel is no different, just out front for everyone to see. I would rather have people zealous for God and His Presence than cold, dead religion any day....
@@svenwalton1332 You don't see this kind of constant weirdness from any of the other megachurches like Hillsong or Elevation. Sure, they have their slip-ups, but it's nowhere near the same level.
@@svenwalton1332 way to give a cop out, dodge and evade, regurgitated answer there bud. Being "messy" actually isn't ok. Paul speaks very plainly about that in 1 Corinthians 12-14. You do realize you practice a religion by being a practicing Christian right? Are you saying what God has commanded us to do in worship and dedication to Him is cold and dead?
@@nathanloan3334 It is when you quench the Spirit, disobey the directives of Scripture "to earnestly desire the gifts, especially that you would prophecy"..."forbid not the speaking in tongues..." etc...You have at least 3 problems to deal with in your response to me. The first is a false accusation. What I said is in the word of God. "ox in the stall". The Word of God is never a cop out, dodge or evade as you charge. The second is a straw man argument. The fact that Holy Spirit led Paul to give the rules of engagement for the use of spiritual gifts doesn't mean I am saying practicing obedience to them is cold and dead. It means that the rules were given so there would be order and because they were needed. The fact is, they are still needed and those who are quick to judge other, those who limit / quench the spirit reveal 2 issues that deal with the heart. No love or tolerance for the mistakes of your brother. No desire to practice what God has said to not just allow, but pursue. These 2 things, hatred of your brother and despising the gifts reveal a heart that is cold and dead.
@@svenwalton1332 Well, first I have no idea why you are using Proverbs 14:4 as something to stand on here. It has nothing to do with people being messy. Therefore, it's not the word of God. It's Sven using the wrong scripture to hold up his own idea. Second, I never said I didn't believe the gifts of the spirit were for today. That was an assumption on your part. It's also funny that you accuse me of a straw man argument and then proceed to knock down your own straw man. I never once said that you practicing obedience is cold and dead. Really dude? I mean you just made that up and decided to argue it. Then something about being too quick to judge and no love or tolerance... I think you may need to read all of your bible. Not just certain scriptures. Also, try letting the bible tell YOU what it says. Don't try and tell the bible what it should say.
I followed Bethel's teachings for years and my wife went to school there. We know first hand of all the weird practices and blatant false teachings. So glad we came out of all this.
I’m glad you finally came out too. You really shouldn’t hide your sexuality. There’s nothing to be ah shame about. No, but seriously I am going to listen to your podcasts and learn what you mean.
I appreciated this episode and how all three men went about it. I experienced Bethel early on in my Christian walk. I was attending college and met some people in it. They were nice, they seemed to have their own language, and everything they did seemed a bit over the top. I had talks with one member about my concern with Bethel. It’s been years since then, and I’ve kept up with Bethel from a distance. I just have a few things to say based on my observations and I want to be careful in saying these comments as not to say something negative about what God could be doing that I’m just maybe ignorant towards: 1) The culture in Bethel seems so positive, affirming, and pumps up the leaders, that it almost might be a bad thing. Meaning that if you attended, and had an issue or concern, that might at times not fit the culture. The second thing with regard to the Teacher’s comment on here - If people are coming up to a parent over and over again and asking if you are feeding your kid. That isn’t normal or good. The lesson might not only be how we would address the person who is constantly being asked this, however why is that person being asked this over and over. That’s not normal. And to bring it back to Bethel, if these are the fruits of your ministry, what about the stuff that we can’t see? If the grave sucking, tarot cards-ish, leaving body, blue genie, etc. stuff is what we hear about every so often, that has to be the tip of the iceberg compared to what someone has experienced at that church over a ten year period. What about the people who are hurt by these things and now will forever associate those things with Christianity? Perhaps the people coming up to the parent and asking them if they feed their children, are seeing malnourished Christians or hurt Christians based on what Bethel is “oking” or “not confronting.” I’m not saying they aren’t saved. I’m saying we’ve got to consider the people who are hurt and have left, or are still hurting within the church from all the confusion this new age stuff brings. I’d rather sit in my room for an hour in silence before the Lord, then spend 5 years caught up in weirdness. You don’t have to fix something that is not broken. Seek the Lord, read the Word, fast, pray, love, live in community.
Why would you go to a nursery to raise the dead? I’m not condoning their action, but didn’t Paul quote false gods to appeal to the believers of false gods for God?
@@StrongBodymindandspirit I’ll check the verse. I was thinking maybe I got my wires crossed. I thought you were talking about the card readings. Maybe the grave site is what you meant. But if it’s the festival in Australia you were commenting on, Jesus made the point that it’s those who are sick that need a physician, not the well.
If certain sound frequencies are good for human health that’s a blessing from God. If you start attaching weird new age stuff to it then yeah it’s bad.
He seemed to skirt around some answers, like the Christian card readings-- in no way it is Christian or ok for Christians to do. Also, as a Slavic Pentecostal, I was exposed to tongues and prophetic prayers, but never had we had jerking or convulsing. When we felt Holy Spirit presence, it would be powerful prayer, you could forget yourself in prayer, even feel as if wind moving, but not convulsions-- which would be present in people possessed, while praying for their deliverance
Great ministry you guys have. One of the best things that happened in the year 2020 was God took us into our chambers of prayer suspended our corporate gatherings and allowed us to see the False worship temples of the world. It’s plain and it’s simple stay in the simplicity of Christ, call evil evil and good good.
I freaking LOVE this channel. I was going to Bethel for about two years, met my wife there while I was going to A seminary down the road from there. God sent me there. Elijah really explains things very well! And has such a great perspective theologically. I REALLY TEALLY REALLY WANT MORE BETHELITES, BETHEL LEADERS AND SKEPTICS ENGAGING IN CONVERSATION FOR RHE SAKE OF THE WHOLE BODY! I was there during a glory cloud. I was staring at it for off and on for about 20 min. I err on skepticism but I fully believe in the miraculous gifts. I have a GIANT HEART FOR THE UNIFICATION OF THE WORD AND THE SPIRIT IN THE AMERICAN CHURCH! I’m surprised you guys did not reference the finger of God, furious love, and father of lights documentaries. I’m surprised you haven’t seen it if you haven’t seen it. Check them out! Really good docs
Find out MORE about the tarot card thing and you’ll be able to denounce it. She admits they won’t use the name of Jesus. I’ve seen them show a “gospel presentation” and there is nothing about repentance from sin, etc. It is not evangelism.
Question - is it possible for a preacher to say Jesus is Lord, to say he died for people's sin, to tell people to turn from their sin - and yet do it all in order to achieve an ungodly purpose? Of course it is. What is a prosperity preacher if not that? How then should a prosperity preacher's ministry be rightly discerned? Answer - by looking at all of their words and actions as evidence of what their real message is - and their motive. Let me give you an example. Imagine a preacher says the following words: "Jesus died for your sin" "Repent and you will be forgiven" "God's grace fills us with joy" "The purpose of the gospel is to give us joy - not to glorify God" The first three sentences appear to be evidence of good intention but they are of course totally defeated by the presence of the fourth sentence. So it's clear that the presence of particular ideas about God never in themselves provide proof that what is being done and said is from God. It is only the attitude - the motive of those speaking that makes something from God. 1 John 4 is talking about whether people in THEIR HEART proclaim Jesus is lord - not in their words. To discern people's attitudes and motives we must look at all available evidence and make only spiritual judgements - not judgements based on appearances - John 7:24 (to say for example that men with big eyebrows tend to be up to no good is a non-spiritual judgement). In this interview this wasn't the approach taken - Bethel was given a tick at the start of the program based on what I have shown to be wrong assumptions. And then you just went through a range of various manifestations and attempted to analyse them as entities within themselves. But doing that is inappropriate without considering all the actions and words of Bethel church leadership and then applying those conclusions to specific events and manifestations. I would like to see Bethel be blessed by turning to God and coming clean over wrong teaching and actions - but if they won't choose that I don't want them to be able to exploit ordinary folk or to have their ministry inappropriately endorsed by people like Remnant who will appear to the average person to be equipped to make sound judgements.
The first question is a false dichotomy. You may have a different definition of prosperity than the preacher. It does not conclude that his heart motives are bad. Can you be bad at preaching but have good intentions in your heart? Of course. And I'm not accusing anyone of bad preaching.
@@cmorr70 Feel free to provide whatever example you like of a person who says all the right things but speaks or acts in contradiction of them. I couldn't follow how your second sentence related to what I was talking about. You mentioned bad preachers with good motives - I was talking about the opposite - preachers who tick all the content boxes but who are wrongly motivated.
This is so so good! I think Elijah does such a good job of clarifying things and making careful distinctions. I think being loose with words and fuzzy with definitions can be a problem for those of us in the Charismatic movement (of which I am a part). Thankful for his careful study and explanation.
Decent answers to the tarot and grave-sucking questions (which largely seem curated Bill/Bethel responses), but pretty poor responses on other things. Why would you at the very least not denounce calling it a "glory" cloud, when in scripture largely God's glory is something we can't even behold and is terrifying/brings repentance? And what would be the point/purpose of God dropping gems, etc? What does it edify in the Body? It more just seems to divide and produce controversy, which doesn't sound like the Lord to me. And then the "redeeming the occult" and "third heaven" responses were really weak in terms of their basis other than "I know people who feel this way". We don't get to just make up and then support any whim of psuedo-theological thought. That's the part that seems dangerous to me. Bethel has a value on experimentation and being the R&D department of the Church (Bill has said that directy), and I just don't see it being all that necessary at best and leading to all kinds of heterdox/heretical practices at worst due to the lack of control and clarity on the belief system. The Church doesn't function like a business (or at least it shouldn't).
The problem with the grave soaking isn’t praying for an anointing etc. Take it in the context of all that BJ has said about the New Age and reclaiming the New Age for Christianity(Physics of Heaven). That’s when all of this comes together in the Bill Johnson Circus Show.
I am listening to your broadcast again. I am glad you are finally defending (apologetics) what you believe, minister and practice. But just as others who criticize Bethel make leaps in judgment, so do you. Yes, it is true that Edwards, Whitfield and Wesley witnessed unusual things that may have been the manifestations of God. But there are several differences between what they practiced and witnessed, and what we sometimes see today. They did not glorify these unusual manifestations. In most cases, they did not even say they were of God or not. They merely said we should not prematurely judge merely because we don't find it in the bible and have not yet seen the fruit of it. Manifestations of what your body does are not necessarily manifestations of the Spirit. We already have a list in 1 Cor 12. This is further expanded in vs 14. We also have the gospels and Acts. Supernatural things that agree with God's word, glory Him and bear similar fruit. They did not witness, report upon or encourage much of what we see today. Grave soaking, fire tunnels, gold dust, angel feathers, heavenly jewels, spiritual mapping, strategic warfare, ect. The things they did witnessed they did not advertise, glorify and build their tents around. Are people gathering to see gold dust or seek God and His glory? If you guys want to be intellectually honest and God's ministers, then you will not direct God's people away from Jesus by what He does or what you presume He does. Chambers has a good book called, He shall glorify Me. Have read it hundreds of times. It is so true and draws me to Christ. Basically, His premise is that what Jesus said in John about the advent of the Spirit. When He comes, he will not speak of Himself, but rather shall glorify and point to Me. This is true of every genuine move of God. There may be manifestations. Some of God. Some of the flesh. Some of the devil. But the Spirit will SPEAK and point to Jesus, and His finished work on the cross. The Spirit NEVER, EVER< EVER worships Himself. NOT ONCE! Deal with it! He points to Jesus. Jesus points to His Father. This is much different then what we often see today. The Israelites were forbidden to worship the brazen serpent or Moses. The Ark and the Ark of the Covenant are not out there for us to find and worship. God was not and is not willing to share His glory with another. Any true minister of God will run from any attention to themselves or what they do, just as Peter and John tore their clothes when men tried to worship them and what they did. That response seen in His ministers and saints is one among many things that point to a genuine move of God's spirit. Even someone that is truly called of God will point 100% of the time to God and what He has done, and not point to themselves. There is a genuine. There is a counterfeit. Much of what we see in America today is the counterfeit. Once you have splurged on cotton candy, its very different to bring you back to the meat of God's word. God's Spirit will always agree with His word, and not speak attention away from it. Very few cotton candy eaters are able and willing to allow God to examine themselves. Them ASSUME that when people speak of such things have not experienced the genuine move of God. Some. A few. Merely put manifestations in their place. Long after God's word. Paul said we should NOT go beyond the word. We do at times experience things that may not necessarily in the bible. But we are not to teach and preach of those experiences, and encourage others to follow. By doing so, we draw men to US, rather than point them to Christ, and allow the Spirit to teach them personally. A genuine move of the Spirit is birthed out of His word. The genuine is far greater. Longer lasting. And we, as God's ministers, don't get ANY of the glory. Pride is a constant obstacle. May God wake us up to Reality. BTW, I don't see many likes or dislikes to my last response 3 months ago. Nonetheless, truth is truth. May God makes you thirsty for Jesus and the genuine move of God's Spirit, and stop trying to defend grave soaking.
When I close my eyes & sing my heart & love to YAH (God) I start to shake & it gets stronger as I continue to worship. I study scripture & worship for over 30 yrs & was baptized in the Set Apart Spirit of YAH decades ago & it shook me while changing my language in worship of YAH & prayer for Israel. Also I inadvertently for about 4 yrs became active in deliverance ministry, & we did witness demons in people from doing Yoga. The demon finally admitted what the open door to the person was & it was in doing Yoga. Yoga is part of the Hindu religion of many false gods. (Demons) Wondering your take on Matthew 5:17-20 & Matt 23:3. Enjoyed your show. ❤️🔥🙏📖🕊
John Arnott interviewed hundreds of people after they manifested in peculiar ways at their church and he said that the testimonies of the way God was ministering to the people was astounding. In other-wards, it is impossible to know what is going on inside of a person by looking at the outward reaction to Gods power.
The point made by one of the presenters (at about 10:20) 'not liking the package that it comes in' is spot on. This is the number one reason people find fault. It is not discernment or wisdom but their own fears, jealousies and misgivings making them unable to see the work of God. This was exactly the same reason the pharisees had such contention with Jesus to the point of accusing Him of having a demon. I am pretty sure many of those who find fault with Bethel would also have had massive trouble with the ministry of Jesus if they where there as 1st century Jews.
And on the flip side, you probably would have rebuked the Bereans for being discerning. We're not supposed to call them out on their bad theology and practices? Tell me why?
@@nathanweisser but the bereans weren’t examining the scriptures to prove that Paul and Silas were heretics. They were: “more open-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they eagerly received the message, examining the scriptures carefully every day to see if these things were so.” The gospels don’t often imply the Pharisees were “open minded” or that they “eagerly received the message”. There’s a difference between being discerning and heresy hunting ya know?
What if you were right - that the number one reason why people criticise Bethel is the package it comes in? From the comments I think you might well be right - many of them are focused on ridiculously specific details about things happening at Bethel which aren't evidence of their motive or the heart of their ministry. But here's the thing - in pointing this out and saying nothing further you are doing exactly what those whose behaviour you criticise have done - you are making a judgement about Bethel on the basis of responses to the unusual - instead of on some more responsible basis. You didn't have to comment on Bethel - but now that you have you need to either present a right basis for judging their behaviour - or make clear you didn't intend for your comments to be an endorsement.
@@ohmahfoot3995 I take issue with pointing out dangerous errors as "heresy hunting". It's just a fact that Bethel for many people is a gateway drug into the new age.
@@nathanweisser sorry, I didn’t mean to offend you calling it heresy hunting. I can’t deny that it seems there’s a lot of connections between Bethel and the new age and I myself am still on the fence. That’s why I’m listening to this series. I’ve only heard one side, I want to hear what they have to say.
Did not all the people who met Jesus have an “experience”,They certainly did.Did not St Paul have an experience on the road to Damascus.He certainly did.I think your objection is does not hold up.
@@michaelrowntree2005 I may have overreacted in the heat of watching this. I'm sorry. It is so frustrating to watch someone say things aren't happening that you know are happening. When I'm back in town we can all grab coffee and talk experience. Maybe yall could even offer a better lense to view that with. 🤷🏽♀️
@@NeuroSpiceAbee no worries! I understand. Totally validate your experiences, and I believe they are an important part of the discussion. Looking forward to connecting! Blessings 🙏
@@michaelrowntree2005 That's a strange response Michael. What does Stephanie's experience have to do with this? If she did not believe - if she had no experience - would you consider her views to be less true? If you had criticised her making a statement without substantiation I would have understood. But you didn't - you are in your response implying that spiritual experience and the presence of a large number of followers is some kind of proof of a church's integrity. That's wrong. The truth is you have or had no idea how to assess churches like Bethel - as I explained in my comment elsewhere you interpreted 1 John 4 to mean that the physical presence of specific happenings in a church was proof that what is happening in the church is from God (my comment elsewhere shows why this cannot be the case - did you miss it? - you did not reply - instead you replied only to comments that make you look better like this one). How do you plan to oversee discussions about the integrity of various theologies and practices if you are unwilling to admit that in this case your basis for making assessments about Bethel was wrong? If you are looking for guidance in how to behave look no further than Stephanie - who acknowledged that her approach wasn't right.
God can work *in spite of* methods, but that doesn't mean that we should continue in them if they're out of Biblical boundaries. Also, if we know that the Bible is God's _untainted, inerrant, and sufficient_ Truth, then why must we seek and pursue "more (of God's) truths" from other cultures / practices (e.g. alternative medicine [when we have Proverbs 4:20-22 telling us that God's Word can be like medicine to our flesh], or "The Physics of Heaven")? Why attempt to sift out "nuggets of gold" from dirt when we've been given a whole block of pure gold (the Bible) that we can't even exhaust throughout our lifetime? It's like having access to an all-you-can-eat buffet (the Bible) but one decides to go out to the alley to try to find a burger in the trash instead. "Hungering for the things of God" should first and foremost compel one to dive straight into His Word, not seeking for new revelations outside of the Word nor seeking for spiritual experiences. If one claims to be "hungering for the things of God" but refuses to go into the Word, then the person is missing the whole point (either he's a spiritual babe who is being taught poorly or not being taught at all, or he's a liar) because the Bible IS supernatural. All spiritual experiences that God may grant us and all the methods that we employ in reaching out to people must be rooted in and guided by the Word of God. Anything outside of that is dangerous (opens the door to the devil - why do that when we're told to not give place / opportunity to the devil?) and sparks unnecessary controversy and confusion which gives rise to division - so why go there? Just my two cents :)
I will be interested to know if the Remnant guys are just being kind or if they have bought in as much as it seems they have. Thus far I’ve been very impressed with their ability to sort out the false and keep the good in the area of spiritual gifts in other episodes.
Bethel guest, Elijah, does a good job of explaining the fallacy, and does a fine job explaining his positions. Does an incredible job of explaining the experiential level of God's spirituality. If Bethel has difficulty, it is with the doctrine.
Oh, and on astro projection, there is a video on TH-cam of a bethel childrens ministry teacher talking about how the kids in Sunday school went through astro projection and of pictures they drew. Asking tough questions? Are you kidding me? Elijah they're tough because you know you and Bethel are wrong for all of this nonsense. This woman said very flippantly "yeah our kids go to heaven hahaha". She put pictures on the screen of the pictures the kids drew and how similar they were! Look it up!
On the grave soaking picture of Benni Johnson: the comments on the picture are of people saying "give me some of that" "I want some" etc etc, dozens of those comments. Everyone knew exactly what she was doing there. Bill Johnson has said many times in the past and written books on Jesus not being fully God and man while on earth. He now claims he doesn't believe that. Ok, why hasn't he depublished these books? So so many more errors, too much for me. The Christalign issue, sorcery! So much more...
Can you provide a quote for "Jesus not being God and Man". I am aware he said that Jesus did his miracles as a man in right relationship with God rather than as God but that is what the New Testament teaches if you read carefully. It would be heresy if Bill has claimed Jesus was not both God and Man but can you provide an accurate quote to demonstrate that - the danger otherwise is that you might be unintentionally bearing false witness if you are passing on hearsay as truth.
Why do we think that the devil can't lead people away from sin? Can't that be use as part of a deception as in the saying 'every good lie has an element of truth'?
This is really hard for me to listen too for some reason. Not sure if it's because the guy from Bethel is trying to justify all of the false doctrine coming out of Bethel or what. Just not sure about this conversation. 🤔
See my main comment (not a reply) elsewhere here - it's because an incorrect process was used to make assessments about Bethel - it has the effect of focusing on things that should be ignored and failing to focus on things that should not be.
Some thoughts: basically the Elijah from Bethel is saying that Bethel is a free thought place where you can believe in whatever you want as long as it doesn’t hurt or offend anybody. That’s pretty much the just of what I got out of this broadcast. I get the sense that Bethel is more of a “tolerance“ type of church. A little confusing and concerning of how somebody like Elijah being there. He doesn’t even believe in the miracles that take place at the church but yet he’s a teacher on staff at BSSM? That is very odd... Overall, Bethel is a false and dangerous church. The fact that Elijah was giving half way answers pretty much says it all.
Oh mate. I didn't get that at all. He clarifies in this video and other videos that they believe the essentials of faith and those are non-negotiable. But there is a grace and place for disagreements on side issues like different views of eschatology. On these debateable issues we should extend liberty on non-essentials.
The thing is, when you look into Kundalini spirit and occult practices. People involved in that receive healing, breakthrough and deliverance too. They also have the same movements, shaking, jerking, laughing, drunkenness, thrown metres back under a power etc. Satan is a copy cat. A counterfeit. Deceivance can be a sneaky little thing as well as quite obvious. We must use discernment. Ask for discernment and trust in that discernment. We have to rid ourselves of selfish desires. We are lead astray by our flesh, emotions and our brokenness. Read the Bible with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Have and seek very close relationship with our Lord. Don’t just follow the crowd and what man can say or teach. Search for yourself. Scripture in context. I repeat, context. How narrow is the gate and strict the way that leads to life, and few are those who find it (Aramaic Bible) Help us all father 🙏🏼
I can't see it ever necessary to go looking for "hidden truths" Colossians 2:2-3 says it clearly "I want them (church) to be encouraged and knit together by strong ties of love. I want them to have complete confidence that they understand Gods mysterious plan, which is Christ himself. IN HIM LIE HIDDEN ALL THE TREASURES OF WISDOM AND KNOWLEDGE."
It took all of 5 seconds to hear Josh's tone of voice to indicate that nothing would be taken seriously. Break down our echo chambers and build up theirs. Just practice supernatural gifts and RR has your back.
But what if you are listening to types of music that are intended for occult use? Such as music that is intended to open your shakra (I spelled that wrong) but you just ignore that part? Is it ok then?
Bringing a bethel attendee to defend these topics isn’t the same as examining these church practices. Sad that the man took such a defensive posture for bethel, why is that I wonder?!
And exactly how much research did they do? How are your credentials greater than any of the 3 sitting there as 1 an eye witness and the 2 others as apologists and ministers? So much to say with so little to add.
@@amberstacey5054 So it would be far better to get a John MacArthur to come talk about Bethel because he has such a keen insight into the things of the Spirit and what goes on there at Bethel?? Really? Thanks for the amazing insight.
@@svenwalton1332 Well it would be good if they watched videos, read the books and past interviews that have already been done concerning the folks they are having on like this. They too easily just accept what the person is saying without having the knowledge to know how to ask the questions better or to nicely call out the half truths being stated. With the Christ alignment stuff they didn't even know they were in Australia. Really?! They couldn't have done any research on it whatsoever to not even know that basic info. They also couldn't have watched the interview Dr Brown did with Jenny Hodge because they let the guest slide on things that have already been revealed in that interview. I'm new to this channel and each interview I've seen so far, I am disappointed that they don't do proper follow up questions.
@@ChaiLatte13 we have watched many hours of direct footage, footage from discernment ministries, and we have read many of Bethel’s books. We interviewed the man for three hours about Bethel and didn’t even cover all the topics on our list. Usually if we don’t press further it’s bc we are trying to keep pace. The goal of the interview is not to make someone look terrible (is that your goal?). It is to provide enough information for someone to discern. Also, we interview 2-4 ppl per week on topics that cover the full spectrum of Orthodoxy. I personally read the book of almost everyone we interview, which is usually about a book a week. This is not even really my job. I pastor a church. Josh has had a full time job outside of Remnant for three years since its inception.
I have to admit, I find myself cringing listening to some of this. This is allll based around this perception that God's will for us is to physically heal us ALWAYS from many of these churches. This once again puts the desires of our hearts in the flesh of being healthy (and wealthy) above the desire of simply knowing Jesus! I believe in praying for healing, but God's will far trumps my own so if I am to live a life sick and lame but knowing Him all that much more, that is by far better because my life is hidden in Him, and when I die..it is nothing but gain! Submission and obedience to Him is the most awesome and evangelical way we can express our existing love for Him, because regardless of what this life looks like, it pails in comparison to the eternity to come with Him. And I offer this broken and sin-infused body as a living sacrifice in everything I do because He has saved me from a deserving judgement and turned this heart of stone into a heart of flesh. And as I grow in Him, being sanctified daily, clinging to the True Vine, my desire to love Him trumps my desire of the flesh (sin).
Well. We Charismatics believe that is Gods will for healing because healing is in the Atonement (Isa. 53:4-5, Mat. 8:16-17) and we are told we will do the same and greater works than Jesus did (John 14:12).
Or, they do a real good job of having Biblical fruit - tell us, how many people have you led to the Lord and discipled. We would love to hear... Bethel has helped millions - when you get close to 000.1% of that say something crappy about them if that is your need.
@@svenwalton1332 I didn't know there was a competition in how many people someone has lead to the Lord. Are you telling me that's how you measure a good or true Christian? And if they haven't lead as many to the Lord as someone else they are some how less and should keep their mouth shut? Should we all start carrying around note books to keep track? Also, what fruit exactly are you talking about? Misleading people and sowing confusion? I don't see that in the list. Also, your harsh response to Donna doesn't really sound like you are practicing the fruit that's actually IN the list..
Hi Donne, I agree with that conclusion but when talking about something like this you need to provide clear examples of what you are referring to to be responsible. God bless you.
He was very good at being very vague. I will always have my reservations about the church however I do agree that I cannot pass judgement as a whole on them as to their salvation.
I've got news for you! Bethel did not invent grave sucking! Benny Hinn went to Kathryn Kuhlman's grave back in the and he wanted to such out her anointing. (If that is possible)
Why is it that I’m hearing you guys say, “grave sucking” even though I know you are saying “grave soaking”?? Anybody else hearing sucking instead of soaking? I hope I’m not the only one hearing it wrong.
Grave soaking??? "Why seek ye the living among the dead (James 24:5)?" "neither shall ye set up any image of stone...to bow down unto it (Lev 26:1)." "And whosoever toucheth...a grave, shall be unclean (Num 19:16)." "in the grave who shall give thee thanks (Ps 6:5)?" "Giving honor where honor is due...that Moses would no longer be the high water mark (Bill Johnson Lakeland Todd Bentley prophesy June 24, 2008)."
What Elijah said about Christ Alignment was not accurate at all. The lady who does the cards has spoken openly that she does not use the name Jesus during her session, she does not even share the gospel. She also charges for these sessions. Look deeper into it, it is not a proper biblical platform for witnessing. Also keep in mind Bethel wants to recieve the mantel of William Branham who openly said the greatest lie of the devil it the idea of the trinity... Finally, Michael joking about mantels being left 6 feet in the ground waiting for someone to soak them up is not a joke to Bethel, this is EXACTLY what Bill Johnson teaches. I used to follow Bethel and Bill very closely so I have spent a lot of time looking into what they actually teach, no matter what their apologist says.
Or we could actually listen to Bill's take on it instead of your false accusation. He was interviewed by Dr Brown and was very clear that they don't do grave sucking/soaking and don't teach it - in fact it is the opposite. They had some students do it - not under their direction and the people were corrected. You are an accuser of the brethren and a gossip and you need to repent. Cease and desist.
For the anointing stuff…it seems that the emphasis on the anointing going from Elijah to Elisha should be seen in some way as a shadow of the anointing given in Christ through the Holy Spirit. Jesus brought the filling of the Spirit which is the greatest anointing, calling, blessing, etc. and in the OT, how I understand it, the Spirit would fall on or be upon people to accomplish the works of God and it is very different and more fully realized in Christ for NT believers! So that I feel is how we should interpret all anointings of the OT: fully realized in Jesus Christ
There is a big difference between turning an occult practice into a scientific practice, and taking an occult practice slapping Holy Spirit label on it and calling it Christian. The Christians in the examples of this video are not trying to scientifically or medically redeem occult practices. So although I think this guy is genuinely trying to make sense of these bethel practices, he's making inaccurate correlations leading to false confidence in these bethel practices.
Our reactions to the different emotions that we experience as human beings are, to a greater or a lesser degree, common to all, regardless or race and culture. Something similar happens to how we react to spiritual occurences in our lifes, regardless of our religious affiliation. To condemn Christians who in the name of Christ testify how they feel and act while having an encounter with the Holy Spirit because it is reported to be like what happens in other faiths is simply a falacy.
I loooove how many people in these comment sections have PhD’s in literally everything you guys talk about. I wish they would just start their own shows so I could listen to someone who really knows what they’re talking about instead of having to watch Remnant Radio. For real though you guys rock. Keep doing your thing.
*Someone gives biblical rebuke* "Ohh look at me, I'm an armchair theologian". This line of thought is stale. Also, I absolutely love what Remnant Radio is doing. I think the continuationist movement needs people like this really keeping people to the world -- I think they really fell short here, though. Just like Cultish did. It's like there's some potion they're required to drink beforehand lol
Deuteronomy 12:4 always comes to mind when I see the mixing going on. Do not worship the Lord your God like the Nations / heathens worship their gods.. I take that verse pretty seriously. Even to the point where I don't celebrate Halloween Christmas Easter and Valentine's day cuz it all goes back to the occult practice and the those specific holidays go back to Nimrod/ Easter/ Astrarath/ Easter. It all ties together with sun god worship fertility goddess worship and so forth. But I do love Thanksgiving and the Fourth of July LOL
I love Brother David and the way he brings a message from the lord, but he’s been to bethel a few times and has deep connection with them. Not sure his opinions about the church, but he is also very right with Heidi baker who is cut from the same cloth.
Remnant radio guys need to be careful to not be too smug. "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy" (Hamlet 1.5.-167). Such a good thing the Remnant Radio does, however, explore and let others explain their positions.
if you have God's Holy Spirit living in you....why would you need any other spirit (grave soaking/sucking)? It doesn't make sense. Is there any other spirit that is more powerful than God's Holy Spirit? None. STOP the nonsense!!!
The grave thing is out - just not wise. Seems immature and not defendable. I agree with what Elijah said redeeming practices that the occult has stolen. I wouldn't call it "redeeming". I would call it "taking back what the devil stole".
Personal experience here, but I’ve been delivered from mandy deep things and never manifested in a loud disruptive way. It was uncomfortable, I cried, I bawled, it wasn’t super dramatic or painful and gaining the freedom from that thing was incredibly peaceful. Someone really deep into something like witchcraft, can’t say it wouldn’t be an uncomfortable experience, but would that warrant a dramatic manifestation? Idk, honestly, but I lean on the side of no.
From Biblical examples, they get scared and they just leave, while the person they've been tormenting regains himself. There is just no way to fight the power of God.
I hen you are talking about the tarot cards, you are skipping or brushing over the fact that in the book Physics of Heaven that is exactly what they say. They are talking about taking the things of the devil or new age and redeeming them for Christ. They are very clear and the Johnson’s have chapters in that book. So, once again they say one thing when questioned but say something totally different in books or from the stage.
8:20 - "come in the flesh" was answering gnosticism, same as the passage about those that "separate themselves". Its not that they were not making much of Jesus, its that they were preaching wrong things about Jesus.
Looking forward to your next video called, 'What Holy Spirit told us about Bethel Church practices'. Here are my experiences. I first visited Bethel at Redding CA in 2910. I have seen several the Glory Cloud in the Sanctuary several times. The greatest experience was outside the church when I was reading the Holy Bible NKJV. I had Jesus Christ appear before me. I talked with Him and held His hands. I have given that testimony to others (at Bethel). Several have had similar experiences of meeting Him. Some of the meetings were at Bethel. One time Holy Spirit took me to Heaven. I stood in the Holy City and saw many beautiful things. My only criticism of Bethel is the use of the Passion Bible.
Remote sight: John 4: 48Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him, Before that Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee. Word of knowledge I believe works in the same way. 1 Corinthians 12: Spirit. 5And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 7But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. Those things that are not, have no influence one way or another. But I agree not to give the impression of evil lest someone be lead astray. Scripture clearly teaches it’s by the Holy Spirit’s will. Not our own. So these people imagining themselves or trancing themselves into nirvanas is the thief entering in by another way. John 10: 1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. 2But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. 3To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. 4And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. 5And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.
The prophet Daniel fell to the ground. Finney's revivals had many supernatural events though he did not want them to happen. Also Ezekiel hit the ground a couple of times until picked up and dusted off by the Angel. Similar events and phenomena with preachers of the Great Awakening. Good point, Elijah, phenomena during great revivals.
2 Kings 6:12 bedroom comment regarding Elisha in the spirit is first preceded by 2 Kings 5:26 where Elisha was letting his servant know that he was there in spirit when he had taken the money from Naaman.
I'm going to comment right as the slurping is done just to give my opinion before I hear the conversation LOL so at the moment I will be a heretic Hunter LOL no form of necromancy is acceptable..
Elijah needs to find out what's happening in his own backyard, he tried to distance Bethel from the methodology of Christalignment (how he could not condemn them as heretics is astounding) This is what BSSM students are doing: "I ministered undercover at a psychic fair. We offered dream interpretations, healings, and spirit readings (prophetic words). Sadly, many of the attendees had been hurt by Christians and the Church, so we used language that was not religious or would cause them to put walls up." "“To reach the people at the psychic fair, we did not say Jesus, God, or Holy Spirit. Instead, we called God the “Spirit of Creation." Source: BSSM school planting website, article "Are You More Religious Than Jesus?"
@@svenwalton1332 Can you only reach them at psychic fairs? Do they not live in communities, go to shops, parks or places where you may meet them? If you go to a psychic fair, preach Jesus, don't be ashamed of the gospel...did the apostles offer "spirit readings" to the pagans in various cities? Did they masquerade as psychic readers? When Paul was in Athens, a city full of idolatry and philosophies, “he was preaching Jesus and the resurrection” and boldly declared: “The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent, because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead.” Acts 17:30-31
@@R-Becker Paul said he would become all things to all people - of course, not literally - but the culture of his day not only allowed for open air preaching (I have done this before many times) but our culture isn't as warm to it. Effective evangelism isn't confined to one or two methods. the Bible certainly doesn't prescribe your opinion. It describes what they did then. I have found doing dream interpretation and prophetic words in that setting to be both profoundly fruitful and amazing. I am sorry your uncomfortable with it.
Unfortunately telling a story is often used to justify what is very questionable. Experience trumps truth too often. This guy is a master, he should work for Biden as the next press secretary. He is great at saying that is not what we meant. But thousands of people take them at their word.
Frustrating to listen to the "Bethal Representative" that "attaches" bias stereotypes to 21st Century Christians. Here is some critical thinking (short version): 1) hearing conversation skirting the issues 2) a lot of New Age understanding and not wanting "to offend" anyone 3) walking on egg shells through examples and 4) a lack of being direct and straightforward because he sits on "the fence".
You should have played the Steven Kozar videos about Bethel to Mr Elijah. In my personal opinion, which doesn't matter, this was a PR event for Bethel. Unfortunately, the NAR church model and the Health and Wealth false doctrine is the norm in almost all "charismatic" congregations. Bethel is one of the flagships of this false doctrine.
I am not familiar with Bethel teachings. However I think in general it's good to not bring accusation against anyone, unless what they are teaching is biblically incorrect. "The thing which has been will be again and that which has been done will be done again and there is nothing new under the sun". I do not believe there is new revelation. There has been no one more controversial than Jesus. Just because I haven't seen it, or experienced it, doesn't mean it's not true - unless it's unbiblical. As for tarot-ish cards and such, I'd just stay away - because... I don't feel that I need a card to tell me anything, I've got the Holy Ghost. Anything that takes me away from the personal relationship that I have with Jesus is out! Glory clouds - I know two people who experienced a cloud. One was at home praying and the other came home and saw, the whole house was full of smoke/cloud. No smell, no source. I'm not going to disbelieve in something just because I haven't seen it. I'm going to keep my heart open to new things that are biblically sound. It's called faith, wonder, adventure with the Lord, and it's fun 😊
I was so hoping for an in-depth conversation about SOZO. A small aspect of it came up in my local church and it was super sketchy for some people (including me). You did cover it a tiny bit on your video with Jack Deere. Also, was hoping for a discussion on the “Wakey, wakey” incident.
Hi Rachel! We had it on our list to cover and there just wasn’t time. Personally, I think Sozo is dangerous. I think it fixates on the past in a way that seems more manufactured than Spirit-led, and can lead to really bad situations, like with the person who recalled “abuse” that never actually happened. It also strangely suggests that every family relationship is somehow tied to a different member of the Trinity. The reason I don’t like that is it suggests that sanctification requires a process never prescribed in the Bible, which undermines the sufficiency of Scripture. On the “wakey wakey” thing, I think I’d probably put that less in the “dangerous” category and more in the “weird” category.
@@michaelrowntree2005 Hold up on the family member-trinity thing?!?!?! WHAAAAA???? YIKES! I am running away from anything that resembles that!!! Our church was working through the Soul Care book and it had elements of sozo-style processes that ruffled many feathers, including my own.
@@racheljoyenns yes. They say if you have a bad relationship with your dad, it affects your relationship with the Father. If you have a bad relationship with a sibling, it affects your relationship to Jesus. If it’s your mom, then it affects your relationship with the Spirit. It could be that they’ve changed that since I looked into it some years ago. But that’s how it used to be at least and prob still is
@@michaelrowntree2005 So If you have good family relationships, you don’t need SOZO at all??? Is this made up psychology??? Or is it a weird Freudian-Bible mashup??? Just reading this hurts my face, I’m screwing it up in such horror!
@@racheljoyenns yea I don’t know what to call it. I do think inner healing is needed in the church I just don’t like this method. Jack’s episode was more my style. Be led by the Spirit don’t follow a formula
Watch this clip where Kevin Dedmon speaks to Kriss Vallotton about him sucking up the anointing of Lonnie Frisbee out of a doorpost. From 1 hour and Six minutes m.th-cam.com/video/VhaI3RpxGgY/w-d-xo.html
Where did the gold go, how much was it worth? Just wondering. I mean people followed Jesus by the thousands for multiplying bread, how many would come for gold?
People didn’t follow Jesus because he multiplied bread, He multiplied bread for those who were following Him. Difference between the blessings of God and the prosperity gospel.
@@suzyq1959 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, you are looking for me, not because you saw the signs I performed but because you ate the loaves and had your fill. John 6:26 NIV. If Jesus said they followed him for this reason I am not going to say different.
@@Only1Christ Well yeah, but then Jesus goes on in the next verse and tells them to not labor for food that perishes but for everlasting life. I always read that as Jesus getting on to people who were following Him bc of the bread and not for the right reasons. Maybe that’s not your point, that you are simply pointing out their following Him bc of the bread, but I would say those are not true followers. Like modern people who follow Jesus for money, or gold, are not true followers. I guess I was just trying to say that anyone following Jesus bc gold appears is almost certainly going to miss the true gospel of repentance and fall away at the first sign of tribulation.
Loving these questions maybe not the answers (ha!) but bit worried how there is no real grounding in scripture in his answers or concrete answers, it is all very, “im not sure, well not necessarily that”. This and the last interview of Bethel, has made me think twice, prob be less judgy. Keep smashing it.
2 Timothy 3:16-17 As much as I want to be objective like you guys at RR endeavor, I labored hearing his side (maybe because not all that he says are based in Scripture). And just a thought regarding removing the evils in different practices, I think Paul in Acts 19 will disagree with this (or this way of evangelism). Poor Elijah guy always took the heat for Bethel's errors by himself. I think I also saw him in Cultish.
BTW, I think the loose relationship between the Aussie Hodges and Bethel Hodges is parent and son. If so, I wouldn’t describe this as a loose relationship.😉
I media chatted with someone on christ alignment. They said it was ok because it was Jesus appearing to them but then he sid but he changes his appearance, sometimes to another animal or to a deceased person !!! @#%# I said Jesus wouldnt do that but they disagreed with me..
I strongly believe Bethel are not wolves in sheep’s clothing. They’re just very miss-led. That being said, I still think Paul would rebuke them, as he did the the Corinthian church in 1Corinth14.
For me, I think there’s some he would rebuke and some he would praise. Kinda like Jesus does with 5 of the 7 churches in Revelation. I agree that this is less about heretical false prophets than it is about lack of discernment in some areas.
@@michaelrowntree2005 I usually try to take a balanced approach towards things like this, but not here - because I think obvious lines have been crossed. You've gotta ask yourself, what's the balanced approach Jesus took in Revelation 1-3 in regards to the Nicolaitans? He actually rebukes the church of Pergamum for taking a "balanced approach" towards them. (I'm stretching scripture a little, maybe. I'm going off Doug Wilson's interpretation). My point is to say that there is a line that can be crossed where a "balanced approach" is no longer on the table for us, and I don't know where that line is, but I think it's been crossed with Bethel. Quote from Doug Wilson's "When the Man Comes Around" The Lord had a few things against them, and it pertained to what they were willing to tolerate in their midst. We know the content of the false teaching that had some presence there, but there are two ways to read what we call it. The Ephesian church had a commendation from the Lord in that he hated the deeds of a group called the Nicolaitans. In Pergamum, their problems was that they tolerated this same group. Now here are the two ways to read it. One would say that Pergamum had a problem with two false groups in her midst-those who followed the teaching of Balaam, and those who followed the teaching of the Nicolaitans (whatever that was). In spite of much speculation, we don’t know the particular sin of this group. The other possibility is that the Nicolaitans were in fact the group that was promulgating the error of Balaam. That is how I am reading it here. Balaam was not a Hebrew, but his prophetic gift was genuine. In the Old Testament outline of the story, Balaam was hired to curse the Israelites, which he refused to do. But there are hints that he then took Balak aside and gave him some “off-the-record” counsel on how to use their women as a weapon against Israel. This advice was taken, and for a limited time was very successful. The New Testament is more explicit about Balaam’s sin in this than is the Old, and this is one of the places. Balaam “taught” Balak what to do, and it was a way of luring the Israelites into idolatry by means of fornication. The women of Moab offered themselves as bait, and so Israel sinned at Baal-peor (Numbers 25:3). The church at Pergamum had some people there who were of the party of the Nicolaitans, who were essentially offering the same thing. The Lord declares that this is something that He hates. He summons the church at Pergamum to repent of their tolerance.
Thank you for the willingness to dig into this #$%&@*/_! This Elijah or so responds with a very hesitant attitude, as a person apart of a political movement responding with a very careful answer not wanting to stand on one side or another, with a non- confident 'to the best of my knowledge... to be best of my understanding' effort. I've personal studied with and be a part of a few classes that come from this source 'Bethel' and over all Discernment led me away.
I would have no problem with God manifesting his glory through gold dust either - if it happened at a church that preached Christ and Christ crucified. That's where the disconnect is.
The body of Christ is rich in its manifestations throughout history. To expect that Bethel operate at the same level of the theological sophistication as the Reformed church is only a waste of time. The latter will write the Bible dictionaries and commentaries, but the first will be writing the living fire of God in the hearts of men, regardless of the eccentricities or the scholasticism propper of each one. The levites were carrying the rites and liturgy of the Temple while the prophets were out in the wilderness receiving a fresh word from the Lord. It has always been like that, up to this day. Pretty strange things in the lives of the prophets, John the Baptist included.
The Living God of the Bible heals by spoken words and laying of the hands. No need for frequencies, rocks, drugs, plants, ect. The Inisible Holy Spirit alone does it all of its true healings and miracles.
I am also very uncomfortable with the idea of “redeeming occult or New Age” practices. Deuteronomy 12:30 - don’t practice occult, don’t even inquire after their practices. Playing with strange fire if you ask me.
Oh they would argue that you are dead to the spirit… that only they are truly sensitive to…that you are constrained by an old dusty book. They’re the spiritual ones.
@@Bmwguy2011 No they wouldn't. And you know that in your heart of hearts. That is such a sarcastic response.
@@TBird5790 ha? This video exposes the nar as false teaching. I have first hand experience with several ruined by this false movement.
I enjoyed the video too.
Gentlemen, even if weird occultic practices are addressed, and Blue Genie comments are addressed, they persist in weirdness, and keep having to address weirdness... with it being an ongoing matter, you have to question why they keep having to address these issues. Repetitive and embarrassing outgrowth of strange "fruit" is indicia of structural error. As someone who spent decades avoiding church because of abuses in a church with Bethel level weirdness, you have to understand how damaging their practices are.
Or, we could go with the Bible instead of your opinion...where the ox is at there will be constant messes to clean up... people make messes all the time in all churches... Bethel is no different, just out front for everyone to see. I would rather have people zealous for God and His Presence than cold, dead religion any day....
@@svenwalton1332 You don't see this kind of constant weirdness from any of the other megachurches like Hillsong or Elevation. Sure, they have their slip-ups, but it's nowhere near the same level.
@@svenwalton1332 way to give a cop out, dodge and evade, regurgitated answer there bud. Being "messy" actually isn't ok. Paul speaks very plainly about that in 1 Corinthians 12-14. You do realize you practice a religion by being a practicing Christian right? Are you saying what God has commanded us to do in worship and dedication to Him is cold and dead?
@@nathanloan3334 It is when you quench the Spirit, disobey the directives of Scripture "to earnestly desire the gifts, especially that you would prophecy"..."forbid not the speaking in tongues..." etc...You have at least 3 problems to deal with in your response to me. The first is a false accusation. What I said is in the word of God. "ox in the stall". The Word of God is never a cop out, dodge or evade as you charge. The second is a straw man argument. The fact that Holy Spirit led Paul to give the rules of engagement for the use of spiritual gifts doesn't mean I am saying practicing obedience to them is cold and dead. It means that the rules were given so there would be order and because they were needed. The fact is, they are still needed and those who are quick to judge other, those who limit / quench the spirit reveal 2 issues that deal with the heart. No love or tolerance for the mistakes of your brother. No desire to practice what God has said to not just allow, but pursue. These 2 things, hatred of your brother and despising the gifts reveal a heart that is cold and dead.
@@svenwalton1332 Well, first I have no idea why you are using Proverbs 14:4 as something to stand on here. It has nothing to do with people being messy. Therefore, it's not the word of God. It's Sven using the wrong scripture to hold up his own idea. Second, I never said I didn't believe the gifts of the spirit were for today. That was an assumption on your part.
It's also funny that you accuse me of a straw man argument and then proceed to knock down your own straw man. I never once said that you practicing obedience is cold and dead. Really dude? I mean you just made that up and decided to argue it. Then something about being too quick to judge and no love or tolerance...
I think you may need to read all of your bible. Not just certain scriptures. Also, try letting the bible tell YOU what it says. Don't try and tell the bible what it should say.
I followed Bethel's teachings for years and my wife went to school there. We know first hand of all the weird practices and blatant false teachings. So glad we came out of all this.
And praise the one true living God that you did, he rescued you! I cannot believe how TRR is treating all of this. Then again, I can...
I’m glad you finally came out too. You really shouldn’t hide your sexuality. There’s nothing to be ah shame about. No, but seriously I am going to listen to your podcasts and learn what you mean.
Praise the Lord 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
@@spn2240 they said they came out of the church, not "came out"
@@samplautz5586 I think he was making a joke
I appreciated this episode and how all three men went about it. I experienced Bethel early on in my Christian walk. I was attending college and met some people in it. They were nice, they seemed to have their own language, and everything they did seemed a bit over the top. I had talks with one member about my concern with Bethel. It’s been years since then, and I’ve kept up with Bethel from a distance. I just have a few things to say based on my observations and I want to be careful in saying these comments as not to say something negative about what God could be doing that I’m just maybe ignorant towards: 1) The culture in Bethel seems so positive, affirming, and pumps up the leaders, that it almost might be a bad thing. Meaning that if you attended, and had an issue or concern, that might at times not fit the culture. The second thing with regard to the Teacher’s comment on here - If people are coming up to a parent over and over again and asking if you are feeding your kid. That isn’t normal or good. The lesson might not only be how we would address the person who is constantly being asked this, however why is that person being asked this over and over. That’s not normal. And to bring it back to Bethel, if these are the fruits of your ministry, what about the stuff that we can’t see? If the grave sucking, tarot cards-ish, leaving body, blue genie, etc. stuff is what we hear about every so often, that has to be the tip of the iceberg compared to what someone has experienced at that church over a ten year period. What about the people who are hurt by these things and now will forever associate those things with Christianity? Perhaps the people coming up to the parent and asking them if they feed their children, are seeing malnourished Christians or hurt Christians based on what Bethel is “oking” or “not confronting.” I’m not saying they aren’t saved. I’m saying we’ve got to consider the people who are hurt and have left, or are still hurting within the church from all the confusion this new age stuff brings. I’d rather sit in my room for an hour in silence before the Lord, then spend 5 years caught up in weirdness. You don’t have to fix something that is not broken. Seek the Lord, read the Word, fast, pray, love, live in community.
Best comment, possibly ever.
Why would you go to a place of the dead to look for the living God?!?
That's a good question 😂😂 I also wonder.
bethel church needs serious help
Why would you go to a nursery to raise the dead? I’m not condoning their action, but didn’t Paul quote false gods to appeal to the believers of false gods for God?
@@ChadGrindstaff what verse? And why would you pray for dead people at a nursery? Nurseries have living people
@@StrongBodymindandspirit I’ll check the verse. I was thinking maybe I got my wires crossed. I thought you were talking about the card readings. Maybe the grave site is what you meant. But if it’s the festival in Australia you were commenting on, Jesus made the point that it’s those who are sick that need a physician, not the well.
I would really appreciate a follow up with you guys alone on how your minds have changed/not changed on Bethel etc.
If certain sound frequencies are good for human health that’s a blessing from God. If you start attaching weird new age stuff to it then yeah it’s bad.
He seemed to skirt around some answers, like the Christian card readings-- in no way it is Christian or ok for Christians to do. Also, as a Slavic Pentecostal, I was exposed to tongues and prophetic prayers, but never had we had jerking or convulsing. When we felt Holy Spirit presence, it would be powerful prayer, you could forget yourself in prayer, even feel as if wind moving, but not convulsions-- which would be present in people possessed, while praying for their deliverance
Great ministry you guys have.
One of the best things that happened in the year 2020 was God took us into our chambers of prayer suspended our corporate gatherings and allowed us to see the False worship temples of the world. It’s plain and it’s simple stay in the simplicity of Christ, call evil evil and good good.
I freaking LOVE this channel. I was going to Bethel for about two years, met my wife there while I was going to A seminary down the road from there. God sent me there. Elijah really explains things very well!
And has such a great perspective theologically.
I REALLY TEALLY REALLY WANT MORE BETHELITES, BETHEL LEADERS AND SKEPTICS ENGAGING IN CONVERSATION FOR RHE SAKE OF THE WHOLE BODY!
I was there during a glory cloud. I was staring at it for off and on for about 20 min. I err on skepticism but I fully believe in the miraculous gifts. I have a GIANT HEART FOR THE UNIFICATION OF THE WORD AND THE SPIRIT IN THE AMERICAN CHURCH!
I’m surprised you guys did not reference the finger of God, furious love, and father of lights documentaries. I’m surprised you haven’t seen it if you haven’t seen it. Check them out! Really good docs
Find out MORE about the tarot card thing and you’ll be able to denounce it. She admits they won’t use the name of Jesus. I’ve seen them show a “gospel presentation” and there is nothing about repentance from sin, etc. It is not evangelism.
Question - is it possible for a preacher to say Jesus is Lord, to say he died for people's sin, to tell people to turn from their sin - and yet do it all in order to achieve an ungodly purpose?
Of course it is. What is a prosperity preacher if not that?
How then should a prosperity preacher's ministry be rightly discerned? Answer - by looking at all of their words and actions as evidence of what their real message is - and their motive.
Let me give you an example. Imagine a preacher says the following words:
"Jesus died for your sin"
"Repent and you will be forgiven"
"God's grace fills us with joy"
"The purpose of the gospel is to give us joy - not to glorify God"
The first three sentences appear to be evidence of good intention but they are of course totally defeated by the presence of the fourth sentence.
So it's clear that the presence of particular ideas about God never in themselves provide proof that what is being done and said is from God. It is only the attitude - the motive of those speaking that makes something from God. 1 John 4 is talking about whether people in THEIR HEART proclaim Jesus is lord - not in their words. To discern people's attitudes and motives we must look at all available evidence and make only spiritual judgements - not judgements based on appearances - John 7:24 (to say for example that men with big eyebrows tend to be up to no good is a non-spiritual judgement).
In this interview this wasn't the approach taken - Bethel was given a tick at the start of the program based on what I have shown to be wrong assumptions. And then you just went through a range of various manifestations and attempted to analyse them as entities within themselves. But doing that is inappropriate without considering all the actions and words of Bethel church leadership and then applying those conclusions to specific events and manifestations.
I would like to see Bethel be blessed by turning to God and coming clean over wrong teaching and actions - but if they won't choose that I don't want them to be able to exploit ordinary folk or to have their ministry inappropriately endorsed by people like Remnant who will appear to the average person to be equipped to make sound judgements.
Excellent point
The first question is a false dichotomy. You may have a different definition of prosperity than the preacher. It does not conclude that his heart motives are bad.
Can you be bad at preaching but have good intentions in your heart? Of course. And I'm not accusing anyone of bad preaching.
@@cmorr70
Feel free to provide whatever example you like of a person who says all the right things but speaks or acts in contradiction of them.
I couldn't follow how your second sentence related to what I was talking about. You mentioned bad preachers with good motives - I was talking about the opposite - preachers who tick all the content boxes but who are wrongly motivated.
Exactly!
So well said.
This is so so good! I think Elijah does such a good job of clarifying things and making careful distinctions. I think being loose with words and fuzzy with definitions can be a problem for those of us in the Charismatic movement (of which I am a part). Thankful for his careful study and explanation.
You have to commend Elijah for being prepared to take some heat.
Why do you? The only issue is whether any sacrifices he makes are in the name of a church which does the right thing.
Decent answers to the tarot and grave-sucking questions (which largely seem curated Bill/Bethel responses), but pretty poor responses on other things. Why would you at the very least not denounce calling it a "glory" cloud, when in scripture largely God's glory is something we can't even behold and is terrifying/brings repentance? And what would be the point/purpose of God dropping gems, etc? What does it edify in the Body? It more just seems to divide and produce controversy, which doesn't sound like the Lord to me. And then the "redeeming the occult" and "third heaven" responses were really weak in terms of their basis other than "I know people who feel this way". We don't get to just make up and then support any whim of psuedo-theological thought. That's the part that seems dangerous to me. Bethel has a value on experimentation and being the R&D department of the Church (Bill has said that directy), and I just don't see it being all that necessary at best and leading to all kinds of heterdox/heretical practices at worst due to the lack of control and clarity on the belief system. The Church doesn't function like a business (or at least it shouldn't).
I really enjoyed this program, and appreciate you guys giving Elijah the opportunity to respond on these issues. Blessings!
The problem with the grave soaking isn’t praying for an anointing etc. Take it in the context of all that BJ has said about the New Age and reclaiming the New Age for Christianity(Physics of Heaven).
That’s when all of this comes together in the Bill Johnson Circus Show.
I am listening to your broadcast again. I am glad you are finally defending (apologetics) what you believe, minister and practice. But just as others who criticize Bethel make leaps in judgment, so do you. Yes, it is true that Edwards, Whitfield and Wesley witnessed unusual things that may have been the manifestations of God. But there are several differences between what they practiced and witnessed, and what we sometimes see today. They did not glorify these unusual manifestations. In most cases, they did not even say they were of God or not. They merely said we should not prematurely judge merely because we don't find it in the bible and have not yet seen the fruit of it. Manifestations of what your body does are not necessarily manifestations of the Spirit. We already have a list in 1 Cor 12. This is further expanded in vs 14. We also have the gospels and Acts. Supernatural things that agree with God's word, glory Him and bear similar fruit. They did not witness, report upon or encourage much of what we see today. Grave soaking, fire tunnels, gold dust, angel feathers, heavenly jewels, spiritual mapping, strategic warfare, ect. The things they did witnessed they did not advertise, glorify and build their tents around. Are people gathering to see gold dust or seek God and His glory? If you guys want to be intellectually honest and God's ministers, then you will not direct God's people away from Jesus by what He does or what you presume He does. Chambers has a good book called, He shall glorify Me. Have read it hundreds of times. It is so true and draws me to Christ. Basically, His premise is that what Jesus said in John about the advent of the Spirit. When He comes, he will not speak of Himself, but rather shall glorify and point to Me. This is true of every genuine move of God. There may be manifestations. Some of God. Some of the flesh. Some of the devil. But the Spirit will SPEAK and point to Jesus, and His finished work on the cross. The Spirit NEVER, EVER< EVER worships Himself. NOT ONCE! Deal with it! He points to Jesus. Jesus points to His Father. This is much different then what we often see today. The Israelites were forbidden to worship the brazen serpent or Moses. The Ark and the Ark of the Covenant are not out there for us to find and worship. God was not and is not willing to share His glory with another. Any true minister of God will run from any attention to themselves or what they do, just as Peter and John tore their clothes when men tried to worship them and what they did. That response seen in His ministers and saints is one among many things that point to a genuine move of God's spirit. Even someone that is truly called of God will point 100% of the time to God and what He has done, and not point to themselves. There is a genuine. There is a counterfeit. Much of what we see in America today is the counterfeit. Once you have splurged on cotton candy, its very different to bring you back to the meat of God's word. God's Spirit will always agree with His word, and not speak attention away from it. Very few cotton candy eaters are able and willing to allow God to examine themselves. Them ASSUME that when people speak of such things have not experienced the genuine move of God. Some. A few. Merely put manifestations in their place. Long after God's word. Paul said we should NOT go beyond the word. We do at times experience things that may not necessarily in the bible. But we are not to teach and preach of those experiences, and encourage others to follow. By doing so, we draw men to US, rather than point them to Christ, and allow the Spirit to teach them personally. A genuine move of the Spirit is birthed out of His word. The genuine is far greater. Longer lasting. And we, as God's ministers, don't get ANY of the glory. Pride is a constant obstacle. May God wake us up to Reality. BTW, I don't see many likes or dislikes to my last response 3 months ago. Nonetheless, truth is truth. May God makes you thirsty for Jesus and the genuine move of God's Spirit, and stop trying to defend grave soaking.
When I close my eyes & sing my heart & love to YAH (God) I start to shake & it gets stronger as I continue to worship. I study scripture & worship for over 30 yrs & was baptized in the Set Apart Spirit of YAH decades ago & it shook me while changing my language in worship of YAH & prayer for Israel.
Also I inadvertently for about 4 yrs became active in deliverance ministry, & we did witness demons in people from doing Yoga. The demon finally admitted what the open door to the person was & it was in doing Yoga.
Yoga is part of the Hindu religion of many false gods. (Demons)
Wondering your take on Matthew 5:17-20 & Matt 23:3.
Enjoyed your show.
❤️🔥🙏📖🕊
John Arnott interviewed hundreds of people after they manifested in peculiar ways at their church and he said that the testimonies of the way God was ministering to the people was astounding. In other-wards, it is impossible to know what is going on inside of a person by looking at the outward reaction to Gods power.
The point made by one of the presenters (at about 10:20) 'not liking the package that it comes in' is spot on. This is the number one reason people find fault. It is not discernment or wisdom but their own fears, jealousies and misgivings making them unable to see the work of God. This was exactly the same reason the pharisees had such contention with Jesus to the point of accusing Him of having a demon. I am pretty sure many of those who find fault with Bethel would also have had massive trouble with the ministry of Jesus if they where there as 1st century Jews.
And on the flip side, you probably would have rebuked the Bereans for being discerning.
We're not supposed to call them out on their bad theology and practices? Tell me why?
@@nathanweisser but the bereans weren’t examining the scriptures to prove that Paul and Silas were heretics. They were: “more open-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they eagerly received the message, examining the scriptures carefully every day to see if these things were so.”
The gospels don’t often imply the Pharisees were “open minded” or that they “eagerly received the message”.
There’s a difference between being discerning and heresy hunting ya know?
What if you were right - that the number one reason why people criticise Bethel is the package it comes in? From the comments I think you might well be right - many of them are focused on ridiculously specific details about things happening at Bethel which aren't evidence of their motive or the heart of their ministry. But here's the thing - in pointing this out and saying nothing further you are doing exactly what those whose behaviour you criticise have done - you are making a judgement about Bethel on the basis of responses to the unusual - instead of on some more responsible basis. You didn't have to comment on Bethel - but now that you have you need to either present a right basis for judging their behaviour - or make clear you didn't intend for your comments to be an endorsement.
@@ohmahfoot3995 I take issue with pointing out dangerous errors as "heresy hunting". It's just a fact that Bethel for many people is a gateway drug into the new age.
@@nathanweisser sorry, I didn’t mean to offend you calling it heresy hunting.
I can’t deny that it seems there’s a lot of connections between Bethel and the new age and I myself am still on the fence. That’s why I’m listening to this series. I’ve only heard one side, I want to hear what they have to say.
But these people are not seeking God!!! They are zealous for a god they do not know. They seek experience.
I’d love to hear more about your experiences at some point
Did not all the people who met Jesus have an “experience”,They certainly did.Did not St Paul have an experience on the road to Damascus.He certainly did.I think your objection is does not hold up.
@@michaelrowntree2005 I may have overreacted in the heat of watching this. I'm sorry. It is so frustrating to watch someone say things aren't happening that you know are happening.
When I'm back in town we can all grab coffee and talk experience. Maybe yall could even offer a better lense to view that with. 🤷🏽♀️
@@NeuroSpiceAbee no worries! I understand. Totally validate your experiences, and I believe they are an important part of the discussion. Looking forward to connecting! Blessings 🙏
@@michaelrowntree2005 That's a strange response Michael. What does Stephanie's experience have to do with this? If she did not believe - if she had no experience - would you consider her views to be less true? If you had criticised her making a statement without substantiation I would have understood. But you didn't - you are in your response implying that spiritual experience and the presence of a large number of followers is some kind of proof of a church's integrity. That's wrong. The truth is you have or had no idea how to assess churches like Bethel - as I explained in my comment elsewhere you interpreted 1 John 4 to mean that the physical presence of specific happenings in a church was proof that what is happening in the church is from God (my comment elsewhere shows why this cannot be the case - did you miss it? - you did not reply - instead you replied only to comments that make you look better like this one).
How do you plan to oversee discussions about the integrity of various theologies and practices if you are unwilling to admit that in this case your basis for making assessments about Bethel was wrong?
If you are looking for guidance in how to behave look no further than Stephanie - who acknowledged that her approach wasn't right.
You can NOT redeem anything that was originally of the devil! Nothing from the occult can be redeemed.
God can work *in spite of* methods, but that doesn't mean that we should continue in them if they're out of Biblical boundaries.
Also, if we know that the Bible is God's _untainted, inerrant, and sufficient_ Truth, then why must we seek and pursue "more (of God's) truths" from other cultures / practices (e.g. alternative medicine [when we have Proverbs 4:20-22 telling us that God's Word can be like medicine to our flesh], or "The Physics of Heaven")? Why attempt to sift out "nuggets of gold" from dirt when we've been given a whole block of pure gold (the Bible) that we can't even exhaust throughout our lifetime? It's like having access to an all-you-can-eat buffet (the Bible) but one decides to go out to the alley to try to find a burger in the trash instead.
"Hungering for the things of God" should first and foremost compel one to dive straight into His Word, not seeking for new revelations outside of the Word nor seeking for spiritual experiences. If one claims to be "hungering for the things of God" but refuses to go into the Word, then the person is missing the whole point (either he's a spiritual babe who is being taught poorly or not being taught at all, or he's a liar) because the Bible IS supernatural. All spiritual experiences that God may grant us and all the methods that we employ in reaching out to people must be rooted in and guided by the Word of God. Anything outside of that is dangerous (opens the door to the devil - why do that when we're told to not give place / opportunity to the devil?) and sparks unnecessary controversy and confusion which gives rise to division - so why go there?
Just my two cents :)
I will be interested to know if the Remnant guys are just being kind or if they have bought in as much as it seems they have. Thus far I’ve been very impressed with their ability to sort out the false and keep the good in the area of spiritual gifts in other episodes.
Bethel guest, Elijah, does a good job of explaining the fallacy, and does a fine job explaining his positions. Does an incredible job of explaining the experiential level of God's spirituality. If Bethel has difficulty, it is with the doctrine.
Oh, and on astro projection, there is a video on TH-cam of a bethel childrens ministry teacher talking about how the kids in Sunday school went through astro projection and of pictures they drew. Asking tough questions? Are you kidding me? Elijah they're tough because you know you and Bethel are wrong for all of this nonsense. This woman said very flippantly "yeah our kids go to heaven hahaha". She put pictures on the screen of the pictures the kids drew and how similar they were! Look it up!
Aren’t there videos of ex-Bethel employees admitting they put the glitter in the air ducts?
On the grave soaking picture of Benni Johnson: the comments on the picture are of people saying "give me some of that" "I want some" etc etc, dozens of those comments. Everyone knew exactly what she was doing there. Bill Johnson has said many times in the past and written books on Jesus not being fully God and man while on earth. He now claims he doesn't believe that. Ok, why hasn't he depublished these books? So so many more errors, too much for me. The Christalign issue, sorcery! So much more...
$$
@@grandmasterlucien exactly.
Can you provide a quote for "Jesus not being God and Man". I am aware he said that Jesus did his miracles as a man in right relationship with God rather than as God but that is what the New Testament teaches if you read carefully. It would be heresy if Bill has claimed Jesus was not both God and Man but can you provide an accurate quote to demonstrate that - the danger otherwise is that you might be unintentionally bearing false witness if you are passing on hearsay as truth.
Why do we think that the devil can't lead people away from sin? Can't that be use as part of a deception as in the saying 'every good lie has an element of truth'?
Shaking "in the Spirit" started over 100 years ago with the Shakers and the Quakers.
Before that.
There are accounts of this further back in church history.
God help us all. I go to my brothers, father, mothers grave to honor the lives they lived of honesty and integrity!! This stuff is just weird.
We are all to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling not to judge others pray for wisdom like Solomon.
This is really hard for me to listen too for some reason. Not sure if it's because the guy from Bethel is trying to justify all of the false doctrine coming out of Bethel or what. Just not sure about this conversation. 🤔
See my main comment (not a reply) elsewhere here - it's because an incorrect process was used to make assessments about Bethel - it has the effect of focusing on things that should be ignored and failing to focus on things that should not be.
Some thoughts: basically the Elijah from Bethel is saying that Bethel is a free thought place where you can believe in whatever you want as long as it doesn’t hurt or offend anybody. That’s pretty much the just of what I got out of this broadcast.
I get the sense that Bethel is more of a “tolerance“ type of church. A little confusing and concerning of how somebody like Elijah being there. He doesn’t even believe in the miracles that take place at the church but yet he’s a teacher on staff at BSSM? That is very odd...
Overall, Bethel is a false and dangerous church. The fact that Elijah was giving half way answers pretty much says it all.
Oh mate. I didn't get that at all. He clarifies in this video and other videos that they believe the essentials of faith and those are non-negotiable.
But there is a grace and place for disagreements on side issues like different views of eschatology. On these debateable issues we should extend liberty on non-essentials.
The thing is, when you look into Kundalini spirit and occult practices. People involved in that receive healing, breakthrough and deliverance too. They also have the same movements, shaking, jerking, laughing, drunkenness, thrown metres back under a power etc. Satan is a copy cat. A counterfeit.
Deceivance can be a sneaky little thing as well as quite obvious.
We must use discernment. Ask for discernment and trust in that discernment.
We have to rid ourselves of selfish desires. We are lead astray by our flesh, emotions and our brokenness.
Read the Bible with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Have and seek very close relationship with our Lord.
Don’t just follow the crowd and what man can say or teach.
Search for yourself. Scripture in context. I repeat, context.
How narrow is the gate and strict the way that leads to life, and few are those who find it (Aramaic Bible)
Help us all father 🙏🏼
I can't see it ever necessary to go looking for "hidden truths" Colossians 2:2-3 says it clearly "I want them (church) to be encouraged and knit together by strong ties of love. I want them to have complete confidence that they understand Gods mysterious plan, which is Christ himself. IN HIM LIE HIDDEN ALL THE TREASURES OF WISDOM AND KNOWLEDGE."
It took all of 5 seconds to hear Josh's tone of voice to indicate that nothing would be taken seriously.
Break down our echo chambers and build up theirs. Just practice supernatural gifts and RR has your back.
But what if you are listening to types of music that are intended for occult use? Such as music that is intended to open your shakra (I spelled that wrong) but you just ignore that part? Is it ok then?
Dont do it.your conscious marks it as a sin
My question also, If Bethel is believing that all people should be well...not sick...why is the church closed because of the virus?
Everyone wants to know this, but I don't think we can expect an answer. It seems we are shown they are cloads without water.
I don't think you guys do enough research before you interview these types of guests.
Bringing a bethel attendee to defend these topics isn’t the same as examining these church practices. Sad that the man took such a defensive posture for bethel, why is that I wonder?!
And exactly how much research did they do? How are your credentials greater than any of the 3 sitting there as 1 an eye witness and the 2 others as apologists and ministers? So much to say with so little to add.
@@amberstacey5054 So it would be far better to get a John MacArthur to come talk about Bethel because he has such a keen insight into the things of the Spirit and what goes on there at Bethel?? Really? Thanks for the amazing insight.
@@svenwalton1332 Well it would be good if they watched videos, read the books and past interviews that have already been done concerning the folks they are having on like this. They too easily just accept what the person is saying without having the knowledge to know how to ask the questions better or to nicely call out the half truths being stated. With the Christ alignment stuff they didn't even know they were in Australia. Really?! They couldn't have done any research on it whatsoever to not even know that basic info. They also couldn't have watched the interview Dr Brown did with Jenny Hodge because they let the guest slide on things that have already been revealed in that interview. I'm new to this channel and each interview I've seen so far, I am disappointed that they don't do proper follow up questions.
@@ChaiLatte13 we have watched many hours of direct footage, footage from discernment ministries, and we have read many of Bethel’s books. We interviewed the man for three hours about Bethel and didn’t even cover all the topics on our list. Usually if we don’t press further it’s bc we are trying to keep pace. The goal of the interview is not to make someone look terrible (is that your goal?). It is to provide enough information for someone to discern. Also, we interview 2-4 ppl per week on topics that cover the full spectrum of Orthodoxy. I personally read the book of almost everyone we interview, which is usually about a book a week. This is not even really my job. I pastor a church. Josh has had a full time job outside of Remnant for three years since its inception.
I saw 3 angels standing around my sister’s hospital bed she was dying and now she is living praise Jesus
I have to admit, I find myself cringing listening to some of this. This is allll based around this perception that God's will for us is to physically heal us ALWAYS from many of these churches. This once again puts the desires of our hearts in the flesh of being healthy (and wealthy) above the desire of simply knowing Jesus! I believe in praying for healing, but God's will far trumps my own so if I am to live a life sick and lame but knowing Him all that much more, that is by far better because my life is hidden in Him, and when I die..it is nothing but gain! Submission and obedience to Him is the most awesome and evangelical way we can express our existing love for Him, because regardless of what this life looks like, it pails in comparison to the eternity to come with Him. And I offer this broken and sin-infused body as a living sacrifice in everything I do because He has saved me from a deserving judgement and turned this heart of stone into a heart of flesh. And as I grow in Him, being sanctified daily, clinging to the True Vine, my desire to love Him trumps my desire of the flesh (sin).
Amen
Well. We Charismatics believe that is Gods will for healing because healing is in the Atonement (Isa. 53:4-5, Mat. 8:16-17) and we are told we will do the same and greater works than Jesus did (John 14:12).
bethel sure does a good job of stirring up confusion !
Or, they do a real good job of having Biblical fruit - tell us, how many people have you led to the Lord and discipled. We would love to hear... Bethel has helped millions - when you get close to 000.1% of that say something crappy about them if that is your need.
@@svenwalton1332 I didn't know there was a competition in how many people someone has lead to the Lord. Are you telling me that's how you measure a good or true Christian? And if they haven't lead as many to the Lord as someone else they are some how less and should keep their mouth shut? Should we all start carrying around note books to keep track? Also, what fruit exactly are you talking about? Misleading people and sowing confusion? I don't see that in the list. Also, your harsh response to Donna doesn't really sound like you are practicing the fruit that's actually IN the list..
Hi Donne,
I agree with that conclusion but when talking about something like this you need to provide clear examples of what you are referring to to be responsible. God bless you.
Not confusing at all. Pretty plain really.
He was very good at being very vague. I will always have my reservations about the church however I do agree that I cannot pass judgement as a whole on them as to their salvation.
I've got news for you! Bethel did not invent grave sucking! Benny Hinn went to Kathryn Kuhlman's grave back in the and he wanted to such out her anointing. (If that is possible)
Why is it that I’m hearing you guys say, “grave sucking” even though I know you are saying “grave soaking”?? Anybody else hearing sucking instead of soaking? I hope I’m not the only one hearing it wrong.
Grave soaking??? "Why seek ye the living among the dead (James 24:5)?" "neither shall ye set up any image of stone...to bow down unto it (Lev 26:1)." "And whosoever toucheth...a grave, shall be unclean (Num 19:16)." "in the grave who shall give thee thanks (Ps 6:5)?" "Giving honor where honor is due...that Moses would no longer be the high water mark (Bill Johnson Lakeland Todd Bentley prophesy June 24, 2008)."
They are way more after the gifts and way less about growing in the character to carry them. It's nutty and weird. I visited several times.
What Elijah said about Christ Alignment was not accurate at all. The lady who does the cards has spoken openly that she does not use the name Jesus during her session, she does not even share the gospel. She also charges for these sessions. Look deeper into it, it is not a proper biblical platform for witnessing.
Also keep in mind Bethel wants to recieve the mantel of William Branham who openly said the greatest lie of the devil it the idea of the trinity...
Finally, Michael joking about mantels being left 6 feet in the ground waiting for someone to soak them up is not a joke to Bethel, this is EXACTLY what Bill Johnson teaches.
I used to follow Bethel and Bill very closely so I have spent a lot of time looking into what they actually teach, no matter what their apologist says.
If you can't see that "Christalignment" is a new age/demonic cult, question your salvation.
@@R-Becker exactly lol
Or we could actually listen to Bill's take on it instead of your false accusation. He was interviewed by Dr Brown and was very clear that they don't do grave sucking/soaking and don't teach it - in fact it is the opposite. They had some students do it - not under their direction and the people were corrected. You are an accuser of the brethren and a gossip and you need to repent. Cease and desist.
@@svenwalton1332 his WIFE did it.
@@tarkatheotter6977 Did you ask her? Did you see it? Is there film of her actually doing it?
Is the video that was referenced that would be in the description available?
Not music, but sound waves can be used to produce shock waves to disintegrate gall stones.
For the anointing stuff…it seems that the emphasis on the anointing going from Elijah to Elisha should be seen in some way as a shadow of the anointing given in Christ through the Holy Spirit. Jesus brought the filling of the Spirit which is the greatest anointing, calling, blessing, etc. and in the OT, how I understand it, the Spirit would fall on or be upon people to accomplish the works of God and it is very different and more fully realized in Christ for NT believers! So that I feel is how we should interpret all anointings of the OT: fully realized in Jesus Christ
There is a big difference between turning an occult practice into a scientific practice, and taking an occult practice slapping Holy Spirit label on it and calling it Christian. The Christians in the examples of this video are not trying to scientifically or medically redeem occult practices. So although I think this guy is genuinely trying to make sense of these bethel practices, he's making inaccurate correlations leading to false confidence in these bethel practices.
Our reactions to the different emotions that we experience as human beings are, to a greater or a lesser degree, common to all, regardless or race and culture. Something similar happens to how we react to spiritual occurences in our lifes, regardless of our religious affiliation. To condemn Christians who in the name of Christ testify how they feel and act while having an encounter with the Holy Spirit because it is reported to be like what happens in other faiths is simply a falacy.
I loooove how many people in these comment sections have PhD’s in literally everything you guys talk about. I wish they would just start their own shows so I could listen to someone who really knows what they’re talking about instead of having to watch Remnant Radio.
For real though you guys rock. Keep doing your thing.
Thanks William!
*Someone gives biblical rebuke*
"Ohh look at me, I'm an armchair theologian".
This line of thought is stale.
Also, I absolutely love what Remnant Radio is doing. I think the continuationist movement needs people like this really keeping people to the world -- I think they really fell short here, though. Just like Cultish did. It's like there's some potion they're required to drink beforehand lol
Deuteronomy 12:4 always comes to mind when I see the mixing going on. Do not worship the Lord your God like the Nations / heathens worship their gods.. I take that verse pretty seriously. Even to the point where I don't celebrate Halloween Christmas Easter and Valentine's day cuz it all goes back to the occult practice and the those specific holidays go back to Nimrod/ Easter/ Astrarath/ Easter. It all ties together with sun god worship fertility goddess worship and so forth. But I do love Thanksgiving and the Fourth of July LOL
Yes brother! This is the way.... no pagan or witchcraft holiday would ever please Jesus!
Good to have this discussion. However, very skeptical about redeeming the occult/new age.
You guys need to get David Hogan on your show and what he will tell you he seen God do will blow your mind try it and see,
Hulk Hogan would be enough! Superpowers of the NAR Christian...
I love Brother David and the way he brings a message from the lord, but he’s been to bethel a few times and has deep connection with them. Not sure his opinions about the church, but he is also very right with Heidi baker who is cut from the same cloth.
Isn't David Hogan an anti-trinitarian? That disqualifies him.
David Hogan. Is he the 500 dead raising guy? How can anyone take him seriously?
However, he is an "onliest" Non trinitarian, hence false.
I love these full counsel of God discussions! Great job guys!💕
Remnant radio guys need to be careful to not be too smug. "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy" (Hamlet 1.5.-167). Such a good thing the Remnant Radio does, however, explore and let others explain their positions.
if you have God's Holy Spirit living in you....why would you need any other spirit (grave soaking/sucking)? It doesn't make sense. Is there any other spirit that is more powerful than God's Holy Spirit? None. STOP the nonsense!!!
The woman who runs the 'tarot' cards in Australia, her son is at Bethel.
The grave thing is out - just not wise. Seems immature and not defendable. I agree with what Elijah said redeeming practices that the occult has stolen. I wouldn't call it "redeeming". I would call it "taking back what the devil stole".
The question is how do demons react when exorcism by GOD the spirit happens?
Personal experience here, but I’ve been delivered from mandy deep things and never manifested in a loud disruptive way. It was uncomfortable, I cried, I bawled, it wasn’t super dramatic or painful and gaining the freedom from that thing was incredibly peaceful. Someone really deep into something like witchcraft, can’t say it wouldn’t be an uncomfortable experience, but would that warrant a dramatic manifestation? Idk, honestly, but I lean on the side of no.
From Biblical examples, they get scared and they just leave, while the person they've been tormenting regains himself. There is just no way to fight the power of God.
How do they now view the waking up of angels? And did Beni repent of that? And did she also repent of the 'holy' yoga?
I hen you are talking about the tarot cards, you are skipping or brushing over the fact that in the book Physics of Heaven that is exactly what they say. They are talking about taking the things of the devil or new age and redeeming them for Christ. They are very clear and the Johnson’s have chapters in that book. So, once again they say one thing when questioned but say something totally different in books or from the stage.
I think u would like our episode with Steven Bancarz on New Age / Physics of Heaven
Please read Deuteronomy 18:10-13 and 2 Corinthians 11:13-15
8:20 - "come in the flesh" was answering gnosticism, same as the passage about those that "separate themselves". Its not that they were not making much of Jesus, its that they were preaching wrong things about Jesus.
Can you guys use time stamps, please?!
Looking forward to your next video called, 'What Holy Spirit told us about Bethel Church practices'. Here are my experiences. I first visited Bethel at Redding CA in 2910. I have seen several the Glory Cloud in the Sanctuary several times.
The greatest experience was outside the church when I was reading the Holy Bible NKJV. I had Jesus Christ appear before me. I talked with Him and held His hands. I have given that testimony to others (at Bethel). Several have had similar experiences of meeting Him. Some of the meetings were at Bethel. One time Holy Spirit took me to Heaven. I stood in the Holy City and saw many beautiful things. My only criticism of Bethel is the use of the Passion Bible.
Remote sight:
John 4: 48Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him, Before that Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee.
Word of knowledge I believe works in the same way.
1 Corinthians 12: Spirit.
5And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
6And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
7But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
8For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
10To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
11But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
Those things that are not, have no influence one way or another. But I agree not to give the impression of evil lest someone be lead astray. Scripture clearly teaches it’s by the Holy Spirit’s will. Not our own. So these people imagining themselves or trancing themselves into nirvanas is the thief entering in by another way.
John 10: 1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
2But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
3To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
4And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
5And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.
The prophet Daniel fell to the ground. Finney's revivals had many supernatural events though he did not want them to happen. Also Ezekiel hit the ground a couple of times until picked up and dusted off by the Angel. Similar events and phenomena with preachers of the Great Awakening. Good point, Elijah, phenomena during great revivals.
2 Kings 6:12 bedroom comment regarding Elisha in the spirit is first preceded by 2 Kings 5:26 where Elisha was letting his servant know that he was there in spirit when he had taken the money from Naaman.
Unbelief is blindness. Can you imagine? I asked my Father for the Holy Spirit. He gave me a kundalini spirit. Unbelief is the door to deception.
I'm going to comment right as the slurping is done just to give my opinion before I hear the conversation LOL so at the moment I will be a heretic Hunter LOL no form of necromancy is acceptable..
Elijah needs to find out what's happening in his own backyard, he tried to distance Bethel from the methodology of Christalignment (how he could not condemn them as heretics is astounding)
This is what BSSM students are doing: "I ministered undercover at a psychic fair. We offered dream interpretations, healings, and spirit readings (prophetic words). Sadly, many of the attendees had been hurt by Christians and the Church, so we used language that was not religious or would cause them to put walls up."
"“To reach the people at the psychic fair, we did not say Jesus, God, or Holy Spirit. Instead, we called God the “Spirit of Creation."
Source: BSSM school planting website, article "Are You More Religious Than Jesus?"
How exactly are you reaching this people group?
@@svenwalton1332 Can you only reach them at psychic fairs? Do they not live in communities, go to shops, parks or places where you may meet them? If you go to a psychic fair, preach Jesus, don't be ashamed of the gospel...did the apostles offer "spirit readings" to the pagans in various cities? Did they masquerade as psychic readers? When Paul was in Athens, a city full of idolatry and philosophies, “he was preaching Jesus and the resurrection” and boldly declared: “The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent, because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead.” Acts 17:30-31
@@matasaina2011 The gospel is the power unto salvation, not "spirit readings."
@@R-Becker Paul said he would become all things to all people - of course, not literally - but the culture of his day not only allowed for open air preaching (I have done this before many times) but our culture isn't as warm to it. Effective evangelism isn't confined to one or two methods. the Bible certainly doesn't prescribe your opinion. It describes what they did then. I have found doing dream interpretation and prophetic words in that setting to be both profoundly fruitful and amazing. I am sorry your uncomfortable with it.
@@svenwalton1332 that does not mean mimic a psychic.
Whooo.... this dude can skirt around an answer huh? This interview further solidified my “discernment” that Bethel is in fact a cult.
Unfortunately telling a story is often used to justify what is very questionable. Experience trumps truth too often. This guy is a master, he should work for Biden as the next press secretary. He is great at saying that is not what we meant. But thousands of people take them at their word.
Frustrating to listen to the "Bethal Representative" that "attaches" bias stereotypes to 21st Century Christians. Here is some critical thinking (short version): 1) hearing conversation skirting the issues 2) a lot of New Age understanding and not wanting "to offend" anyone 3) walking on egg shells through examples and 4) a lack of being direct and straightforward because he sits on "the fence".
You should have played the Steven Kozar videos about Bethel to Mr Elijah. In my personal opinion, which doesn't matter, this was a PR event for Bethel. Unfortunately, the NAR church model and the Health and Wealth false doctrine is the norm in almost all "charismatic" congregations. Bethel is one of the flagships of this false doctrine.
I am not familiar with Bethel teachings. However I think in general it's good to not bring accusation against anyone, unless what they are teaching is biblically incorrect. "The thing which has been will be again and that which has been done will be done again and there is nothing new under the sun". I do not believe there is new revelation. There has been no one more controversial than Jesus. Just because I haven't seen it, or experienced it, doesn't mean it's not true - unless it's unbiblical. As for tarot-ish cards and such, I'd just stay away - because... I don't feel that I need a card to tell me anything, I've got the Holy Ghost. Anything that takes me away from the personal relationship that I have with Jesus is out!
Glory clouds - I know two people who experienced a cloud. One was at home praying and the other came home and saw, the whole house was full of smoke/cloud. No smell, no source. I'm not going to disbelieve in something just because I haven't seen it. I'm going to keep my heart open to new things that are biblically sound. It's called faith, wonder, adventure with the Lord, and it's fun 😊
Have a look at bethels book The Physics of Heaven. Mike winger has done a video on it. It is truly new age
I was so hoping for an in-depth conversation about SOZO. A small aspect of it came up in my local church and it was super sketchy for some people (including me). You did cover it a tiny bit on your video with Jack Deere.
Also, was hoping for a discussion on the “Wakey, wakey” incident.
Hi Rachel! We had it on our list to cover and there just wasn’t time. Personally, I think Sozo is dangerous. I think it fixates on the past in a way that seems more manufactured than Spirit-led, and can lead to really bad situations, like with the person who recalled “abuse” that never actually happened. It also strangely suggests that every family relationship is somehow tied to a different member of the Trinity. The reason I don’t like that is it suggests that sanctification requires a process never prescribed in the Bible, which undermines the sufficiency of Scripture. On the “wakey wakey” thing, I think I’d probably put that less in the “dangerous” category and more in the “weird” category.
@@michaelrowntree2005 Hold up on the family member-trinity thing?!?!?! WHAAAAA???? YIKES! I am running away from anything that resembles that!!! Our church was working through the Soul Care book and it had elements of sozo-style processes that ruffled many feathers, including my own.
@@racheljoyenns yes. They say if you have a bad relationship with your dad, it affects your relationship with the Father. If you have a bad relationship with a sibling, it affects your relationship to Jesus. If it’s your mom, then it affects your relationship with the Spirit.
It could be that they’ve changed that since I looked into it some years ago. But that’s how it used to be at least and prob still is
@@michaelrowntree2005 So If you have good family relationships, you don’t need SOZO at all??? Is this made up psychology??? Or is it a weird Freudian-Bible mashup??? Just reading this hurts my face, I’m screwing it up in such horror!
@@racheljoyenns yea I don’t know what to call it. I do think inner healing is needed in the church I just don’t like this method. Jack’s episode was more my style. Be led by the Spirit don’t follow a formula
Watch this clip where Kevin Dedmon speaks to Kriss Vallotton about him sucking up the anointing of Lonnie Frisbee out of a doorpost. From 1 hour and Six minutes m.th-cam.com/video/VhaI3RpxGgY/w-d-xo.html
Where did the gold go, how much was it worth? Just wondering. I mean people followed Jesus by the thousands for multiplying bread, how many would come for gold?
People didn’t follow Jesus because he multiplied bread, He multiplied bread for those who were following Him. Difference between the blessings of God and the prosperity gospel.
@@suzyq1959 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, you are looking for me, not because you saw the signs I performed but because you ate the loaves and had your fill.
John 6:26 NIV. If Jesus said they followed him for this reason I am not going to say different.
@@suzyq1959 Still would like to know where the gold went. Gold dust or pieces, still valuable.
@@Only1Christ Well yeah, but then Jesus goes on in the next verse and tells them to not labor for food that perishes but for everlasting life. I always read that as Jesus getting on to people who were following Him bc of the bread and not for the right reasons. Maybe that’s not your point, that you are simply pointing out their following Him bc of the bread, but I would say those are not true followers. Like modern people who follow Jesus for money, or gold, are not true followers. I guess I was just trying to say that anyone following Jesus bc gold appears is almost certainly going to miss the true gospel of repentance and fall away at the first sign of tribulation.
Loving these questions maybe not the answers (ha!) but bit worried how there is no real grounding in scripture in his answers or concrete answers, it is all very, “im not sure, well not necessarily that”.
This and the last interview of Bethel, has made me think twice, prob be less judgy.
Keep smashing it.
2 Timothy 3:16-17 As much as I want to be objective like you guys at RR endeavor, I labored hearing his side (maybe because not all that he says are based in Scripture).
And just a thought regarding removing the evils in different practices, I think Paul in Acts 19 will disagree with this (or this way of evangelism). Poor Elijah guy always took the heat for Bethel's errors by himself. I think I also saw him in Cultish.
BTW, I think the loose relationship between the Aussie Hodges and Bethel Hodges is parent and son.
If so, I wouldn’t describe this as a loose relationship.😉
Yes that's right
I media chatted with someone on christ alignment. They said it was ok because it was Jesus appearing to them but then he sid but he changes his appearance, sometimes to another animal or to a deceased person !!! @#%# I said Jesus wouldnt do that but they disagreed with me..
I strongly believe Bethel are not wolves in sheep’s clothing. They’re just very miss-led.
That being said, I still think Paul would rebuke them, as he did the the Corinthian church in 1Corinth14.
Appreciate your balanced approach
For me, I think there’s some he would rebuke and some he would praise. Kinda like Jesus does with 5 of the 7 churches in Revelation. I agree that this is less about heretical false prophets than it is about lack of discernment in some areas.
@@michaelrowntree2005 Yes, agreed. Lack of discernment.
@@michaelrowntree2005 I would say, however, with their massive platform, they could be a stumbling stone for brand new believers.
@@michaelrowntree2005 I usually try to take a balanced approach towards things like this, but not here - because I think obvious lines have been crossed.
You've gotta ask yourself, what's the balanced approach Jesus took in Revelation 1-3 in regards to the Nicolaitans? He actually rebukes the church of Pergamum for taking a "balanced approach" towards them. (I'm stretching scripture a little, maybe. I'm going off Doug Wilson's interpretation).
My point is to say that there is a line that can be crossed where a "balanced approach" is no longer on the table for us, and I don't know where that line is, but I think it's been crossed with Bethel.
Quote from Doug Wilson's "When the Man Comes Around"
The Lord had a few things against them, and it pertained to what they were willing to tolerate in their midst. We know the content of the false teaching that had some presence there, but there are two ways to read what we call it. The Ephesian church had a commendation from the Lord in that he hated the deeds of a group called the Nicolaitans. In Pergamum, their problems was that they tolerated this same group. Now here are the two ways to read it. One would say that Pergamum had a problem with two false groups in her midst-those who followed the teaching of Balaam, and those who followed the teaching of the Nicolaitans (whatever that was). In spite of much speculation, we don’t know the particular sin of this group. The other possibility is that the Nicolaitans were in fact the group that was promulgating the error of Balaam. That is how I am reading it here. Balaam was not a Hebrew, but his prophetic gift was genuine. In the Old Testament outline of the story, Balaam was hired to curse the Israelites, which he refused to do. But there are hints that he then took Balak aside and gave him some “off-the-record” counsel on how to use their women as a weapon against Israel. This advice was taken, and for a limited time was very successful. The New Testament is more explicit about Balaam’s sin in this than is the Old, and this is one of the places. Balaam “taught” Balak what to do, and it was a way of luring the Israelites into idolatry by means of fornication. The women of Moab offered themselves as bait, and so Israel sinned at Baal-peor (Numbers 25:3). The church at Pergamum had some people there who were of the party of the Nicolaitans, who were essentially offering the same thing. The Lord declares that this is something that He hates. He summons the church at Pergamum to repent of their tolerance.
My favorite statement was, "Let's say there is a chair cult that worships 'The La-z-boy'"
Thank you for the willingness to dig into this #$%&@*/_!
This Elijah or so responds with a very hesitant attitude, as a person apart of a political movement responding with a very careful answer not wanting to stand on one side or another, with a non- confident 'to the best of my knowledge... to be best of my understanding' effort.
I've personal studied with and be a part of a few classes that come from this source 'Bethel' and over all Discernment led me away.
I would have no problem with God manifesting his glory through gold dust either - if it happened at a church that preached Christ and Christ crucified. That's where the disconnect is.
As long as it hasn’t been inserted into the A/C
The body of Christ is rich in its manifestations throughout history. To expect that Bethel operate at the same level of the theological sophistication as the Reformed church is only a waste of time. The latter will write the Bible dictionaries and commentaries, but the first will be writing the living fire of God in the hearts of men, regardless of the eccentricities or the scholasticism propper of each one. The levites were carrying the rites and liturgy of the Temple while the prophets were out in the wilderness receiving a fresh word from the Lord. It has always been like that, up to this day. Pretty strange things in the lives of the prophets, John the Baptist included.
You should ask about Kris Vallonton uniting with the Pope
Yes, that definitely bothered me when I saw this 🤦♀️
The Living God of the Bible heals by spoken words and laying of the hands.
No need for frequencies, rocks, drugs, plants, ect. The Inisible Holy Spirit alone does it all of its true healings and miracles.
The tares look very similar to the wheat.
loved this one!
Sounds like he is using "Revival history" as an authority equal to Scripture.
Tracey Burroughs from South Africa watching this episode.