Is This The Magic Move Ben Hogan And Moe Norman Mastered?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ต.ค. 2024
- Perhaps this is the magic move Ben Hogan and Moe Norman always talked about and mastered for elite ball striking?
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I am amazed at a few of the comments here, considering that this golf professional is handing out one of the greatest pearls of golf wisdom you'll find anywhere.
Thanks so much!
One of the pearls of the golf game is that "it's a game of misses."
100%
Personally at age 76 I now like preset my magic trail elbow by rolling in my magic trail elbow just a little bit towards my stomach while not disturbing my grip on my club. I do this one action just before I swing my club back. And at the transitional part of my downswing I then simply throw my club head down and through the ball with my right index trigger finger pressing against the handle of my club to the very finish of my swing. My entire body responds as it should with no other swing thought on my part whatsoever. Cheers🥂👍😊
As a young golfer thank you for being so through and clear about your thought processes. I think we compute athletics similarly
That was a great detailed instruction. I watch Graves Golf but you did a great job, that clicked. Thanks.
Glad you liked it Steve, thanks for watching! Here is the full episode for more info: th-cam.com/video/YTouIPdVjUQ/w-d-xo.html ...If I can ever be of further help to you in learning to Swing Like an Athlete, please do check out my website at milolinesgolf.com for in-person or online lessons, golf schools, or to become a member of my Online Academy.
I love when great teachers and players relate to Moe Norman!
Thanks for watching, here's the full episode: th-cam.com/video/YTouIPdVjUQ/w-d-xo.html
You’re a good teacher Milo
Thanks Jim!
Trying to do this move where you hold on to the angle and it wrecked my swing. I watched Pardraig Harrington say you got to release the wrist as fast as possible and bam my swing was back.
We use the idea of the no release hold for pivot training. We want to allow the angels to unwind naturally in full speed swings.
@@MiloLinesGolf oh ok. So you’re not intentionally holding on to the right wrist angle through the ball?
@@NicolasDalby-g3g only if I’m trying to hit the ball really low.
@@MiloLinesGolf Thank you!
Angels do like to unwind after a hard day doing God’s work.
I like this. I am going to give this a go
Cool, keep me posted. Did you get a chance to watch the full video? th-cam.com/video/YTouIPdVjUQ/w-d-xo.html
Thanks Moe and Ben
100%, here is also the full episode: th-cam.com/video/YTouIPdVjUQ/w-d-xo.html
I am a new golfer just started playing in January and now addicted. But I play dang near everyday and drastically improving. But I watch alot of lee trevino and he says he tries to hit the ball at 7 o clock. And since I've been doing that my swing has gotten alot nicer and consistent. But when you do hit it at 7 o clock you tend to craft a little more lag and your elbow is tucked in alot more but that's why I think they got it like that because they are aiming at that 7 o clock spot
Can be a good feel! And welcome to the game, if I can be of any further help, do reach out or check out my online academy at milolinesgolf.com.
Force is the result of accelerating mass and addition to the one on the end of the stick one needs to consider how swing mechanics accelerate and change the force vector of the mass in the upper and lower body and the arms, especially the lead one dragging the club down.
There is acceleration of body mass to target caused by a lateral shift of pelvis which unlocks the bent back front knee which act like the sear on the hammer of a gun freeing hips to rapidly accelerate around the center of balance. But because the back foot stays down the hips get stuck at 45° open with shoulders just past parallel and the externally rotated elbow down trail arm preventing the lead arm mass from flying off the chest, but only if the arm starts and stays connected - a point of failure in many swings.
The slow down of the hips, shoulders, arms and hands occurs just as the shaft, still lagged with radial deviation comes back level where it is finally free to whip around the hands. This action is exactly like what occurs with a Trebuchet-primary lever stops, sling containing rock whips round it. Here the rock is the club head mass and the sling is the shaft. But the cause and effect is the same swinging a club head on the end of a bull whip if you are a clever guy like Harry Frankenburg aka Count Yogi who did that in his trick shot act on TV in the 1960s - one of my first memories of golf which amazed me.
As the club head whips down around the hands the foot needs to lift and get the hips, shoulders and hands moving again or the club shaft will bend forward so much ( the head will snap off. I did that with irons and Driver trying to figure out Count Yogi’s swing worked by “Hammering” the club down around the hands with a waggle action but failing to lift my back foot and get the hands moving again.
The straightening of the trail arm happens with a twisting of the forearm which is very much like a palm-up to palm-down karate punch that snapping rotation of the hands creates acceleration that allows the hands to match and then exceed the velocity of the club head to keep dragging it behind. If the hands don’t speed up? The club flips past the hands.
Progressively increasing side bend as the club swings down does two things: 1) helps speed up the hands independent of the shoulder turn, and; 2) changes the angle and FORCE VECTOR of the mass in the lead arm which is what is dragging the club! That change in force vector of the lead arm lever of the golf swing Trebuchet is what causes the club head mass to react by tracking down the target line instead of whipping violently to the left and forcing the trail arm to bend at the elbow and lead arm to ‘chicken wing’ instead of folding down-another point of failure in poor swings.
Ideally what happens next is the side bend induced path of the club head mass at the target pulls BOTH arms straight. Done correctly this really slows down the club head making it easier to finish in balance. Freddie Couples and Earnie Ells are examples to follow. The extension happens left of target line because the hips and shoulders are turning as it occurs. If the club is gripped correctly the lead wrist is forced into maxed out extension, forcing the lead arm into elbow down, external rotation and the club forces the the wrists to into radial deviation.
I figured this out from the stop action photos from three directions in Tiger Woods 2002 book “How I Play Golf” duplicating each waypoint then moving slowly between them from address to finish and from finish back to address. The most significant insight I got was where everything needs to be at the point the ball leaves the face of the club. Far more side bend than I ever had in my swing, one of the reasons I bent my trail arm at the elbow and always finished off balance instead of the club pulling it straight.
Tiger’s 2002 swing differed from Hogan’s because Tiger went down the X factor rabbit hole where you don’t let your hips rotate 45° closed and instead twist the spine around nearly parallel hips in the backswing. That’s what wrecked his lower back and gave him stress fractures in his legs. He now has hip action more like Hogan, most pros do nowadays because X factor wrecks the back.
Rolling over on the front ankle to get the hips around isn’t easy on the fifth metatarsal which is why many pros abandoned the squared front foot and now flare like Hogan did or let it spin open with spike-less shoes. I tried both and flare mine. I see a lot of senior golfers who were taught the square front foot block shots due to stuck hips due to not understanding the squared foot only works when the ankle is rolled.
Take the time to study swing photos and go out in yard and swing a club SLOWLY based on what you see and its not that difficult to figure out. It is essentially the same action as if throwing a spear down at the ball.
This is a lot to read 😂 but I love your passion! Here is the full episode: th-cam.com/video/YTouIPdVjUQ/w-d-xo.html
What is your swing speed and handicap?
@@jacobr4558 who are you asking?
@@MiloLinesGolfsorry @teddycavachon
You’re wrong about Mo. The feeling of greatness was him striking the ball. The move was the vertical drop and the horizontal tug.
Exactly. I noticed that too.
Ok this concept helped him achieve the feeling of greatness. Better now 🤷♂️
Vertical drop and horizontal tug produces the feeling of greatness. Remember to step into he left shoe with no hands. Then drop and tug through with the butt end ahead and never pointing at the body. Like this, never like this,Moe says in the Las Vegas video you showed. True that. Nice piece of video here thank you.
Good point Milo !!!!
Thanks Dave!
The butt end of the club never faces the body. It is always ahead on the downswing. Step into the left foot shoe without using your hands. Then the underneath action. Perfect Moe stuff. Todd Graves has a training device for the lead hand position. Works great i bought it.
Cool
If you truly understand this moment in the golf swing...you can truly hit the ball. Period.
th-cam.com/video/YTouIPdVjUQ/w-d-xo.html
Teacherman !
Baseball hitting guru.
Very similar
Haha similar
Im glad ur showing the hogan video. I have also watched the ocean one, excellent.
But, how does the trail palm up, end up squaring the club?
It looks like it’s breaking hands and wrists down and around.
Almost like the trail hand/palm becomes up and over the lead hand?
Have you done a video showing after the slot of palm up, forearm hand release?
Yes I have search Milo Lines Release
Im sure this works, but i wonder if this move is exagerated here to get the feel of it. Wen i watch pro swings, they will point out how the club path for the downswing mirrors the path or plane of the backswing. This appears to be a 2 plane swing.
Yes, it's exaggerated to give you the idea.
Todd Graves lawyers coming for you bro😅
Lol Todd Graves didnt invent the golf swing.
Isn't that the snap that batters in baseball work on? Definitely what Bubba Watson does.
Similar, yes. Many of my feels are from my baseball days!
Yes, basically the same move, keeping your hands inside above and behind the ball in baseball.The difference is your coming down with the golf club.The first move makes more sense, you start with a V shape when you start your swing first move on the down swing and end with a V shape at contact.Moe was unique in everything he did, so very straight when he hit the ball but distance was not the greatest.
Well I’ll just say I haven’t a clue if I was to get into that position how I’d hit the ball.
th-cam.com/video/YTouIPdVjUQ/w-d-xo.html
I believe he actually called it the vertical drop.
Vertical drop and horizontal tug, yep. Here's the full episode: th-cam.com/video/YTouIPdVjUQ/w-d-xo.html
Yes sir
Thanks for the watch!
Money!
👊
Love Moe
Here's the full episode: th-cam.com/video/YTouIPdVjUQ/w-d-xo.html
Moe norman in his later videos said he was wrong about that magic move
As with anything it can be overdone, but with a stacked up upper center, it's pretty money. Do you have links to these videos you are referring to?
TH-cam it. He says he was all and never the golf swing so easy and whats in this video he was completely wrong about.
@@MiloLinesGolf Moe Norman Private Range Demo 2001 Orlando
th-cam.com/video/kmtXLTjflrc/w-d-xo.html
37:00 MOE praises MDLT
oh wow, you noticed that? dang that's observant
Here's the full video: th-cam.com/video/YTouIPdVjUQ/w-d-xo.html
But thse legend dont squat lol
LMAO
There is more to this, your lead arm temporarily puts the breaks on at the pivot point to let the hands swing through and generate power and speed. Had to watch lots of videos and practice before I could understand what was happening.
I think Hogan kept that trailing elbow in tighter.
Here is the full episode: th-cam.com/video/YTouIPdVjUQ/w-d-xo.html
Yes, I am now more confused than before I watched this video. I think I’m gonna watch Leslie Nielsens “Golf My Way” again…..
What can I help clear up? I suggest watching the full episode as this is only a short clip: th-cam.com/video/YTouIPdVjUQ/w-d-xo.html
So is it left arm or left hip or what causing the downswing? I've never pivoted well on downswing. Doing what Matsuyama does is helping...get it back & then start down with something(not sure at the moment but getting back to ball good..maybe its a little sway back & then forth).
I tried bigger angle in right leg(back) at address & move ball fwd at address that seems to be the happy spot for ball. Alittle stacked& straighter back with armsthands....better timing & bottom. If I took club back more inside, timing was off, more pushes too.
So what is driving the downswing: hips, hands, knees, etc?
I'm 62, backswing ain't as deep as once was so relaxed backswing & try to get deep&pause. Its helping.
This is why you should watch baseball players when swinging the bat if you wanna know
Yep: th-cam.com/video/YTouIPdVjUQ/w-d-xo.html
Thank you for the clip mate, much appreciated.
Best thought and move is thinking about nothing except putting your right elbow in the right pocket of your pants on the downswing.
It automatically puts you in the perfect position.
If that works for you great but this is more about the wrist.
Maybe but not for most of the people I have coached
The trail arm.. under the lead arm.. if only that made sense.
Watch the full video: th-cam.com/video/YTouIPdVjUQ/w-d-xo.html
If I turn my shoulders around as much as they show, it will open the face and cause over the top swing.... which results in?
A slice!
They are over exaggerating that upper body movement I believe or they would hit over the the top too.
They don't hit over the top. Lol.
Not necessarily. Your shoulder will eventually open up further. From the top position to the finish, we are all talking about what we “feel” and what feel we should focus on during that literal split of a second. It’s kinda meaningless if ones try to argue about what is right and wrong with slow-mo videos. My take away from this video is that the trail arm (and the right shoulder) should feel super low at one point before the impact. And they are stopping in the middle of the swing so obviously “releases” and natural wrist movement from the releases by club and shaft weight are missing from the stop motion.
Can only see a HUGE slice happening 🤷♂️
😂 I'm sure Moe Norman and Ben Hogan felt the same way: th-cam.com/video/YTouIPdVjUQ/w-d-xo.html
If anything that’s a hook move, the opposite where you’re getting the trail arm over the lead is how you hit the banana slice.
Andrew DeMars
No moe called it the vertical drop and horizontal tug
Correct, but he also generalized it as the magic move. Here is the full episode: th-cam.com/video/YTouIPdVjUQ/w-d-xo.html
So much simpler than this. It's HOW it was created. It's ignorant to teach what a position looks like.
You should watch the full video, this really isn't a position: th-cam.com/video/YTouIPdVjUQ/w-d-xo.html
Hogan didn’t rotate off of his back foot like you are.
You ought to watch the full video and other videos on my channel to paint a better picture, this is just one short clip.
Did Ben ever meet Moe And watch? There’s a story😊
Not sure, would have been awesome to see them side-by-side in a clinic setting! th-cam.com/video/YTouIPdVjUQ/w-d-xo.html
Ben and Mo did meet and Hogan watched him on the practice tee
Yes they did meet th-cam.com/users/shortsszeWMtoEnBo?si=7n59LiI06LtuWuw9
@@bobbyhulll8737 any details? Texas probably?
Hard to do with a bad back
The pattern I encourage I have found to be best for the back. Here's an example: th-cam.com/video/fsQ4XJD9yJU/w-d-xo.html
Golf "fanatic" Moe...golf is in his blood and voice... the only way, study the science, break it down...practice
He was something!
Swing it like Mo is demonstrating and your ball will end up in the woods and you will end up in A&E
Not sure I completely follow your comment, but this feel has worked well for many.
He is just noting that Moe is exaggerating the move, which he does to better communicate the feel and concept.
It's a fact that many golfers in tuition can practice through or beyond the correction. Also, too many club players believe they have the ability to use the same dynamics that tour players use. This is fundamentally wrong.
You don't know! Your not mow!
Here is the full video for context: th-cam.com/video/YTouIPdVjUQ/w-d-xo.html
Watch Ken Griffey jr hit a ball and you will see the same move.
Bingo
Nobody talks about these players using 7 degrees flat lie angle on their irons promoting a swing that goes with the lie of the club. Use a modern upright swing with with his clubs and the ball goes weak right.
Sounds like you are new to my channel, because I do: th-cam.com/video/Gjilgpg0rP8/w-d-xo.html
Moe's secret was that he died a virgin. No distractions.
One track mind
Feel like you're going to hit the ball with the butt of the club.
Nope...here is the full video: th-cam.com/video/YTouIPdVjUQ/w-d-xo.html
@MiloLinesGolf The way I kept my swing inside and not outside, I would think about the butt of the club in the back of my hand hitting the ball or (passing by the ball) and if I don't release my hands it's going dead right. But if i release my hands it goes dead straight and falls right. It's just a feeling you MAKE in your head as you start the downswing. No way you can hit it straight without clearing the hips and releasing the club with your hands. I went from a 15 to a 2 in months. BTW my hands are open at the top. 2 Old pros by the name of Buck Adam's and Harvey Ward taught me that. Wish i could do it now. Lol Not practice makes cruddy.
Ben Hogan is wrong
I respectfully disagree. Here is the full episode to compliment this short: th-cam.com/video/YTouIPdVjUQ/w-d-xo.html
@@MiloLinesGolf I think we humans are 5 blind man trying to touch elephant and explain what that is.
Even though it seem right in that its throwing motion of flat stone in river but golf kinda 3d in that it has Y axis.
Controlling path of club , ball after ball effortlessly need chain of action with correct timing
Linn grant and some extant cameron champ has it
Every thing start with posture. I look at swing on how they swing 7 iron
if they go up and down stratight , they are not sure of their swing and want to hit safely
The only lags 7 iron got it. Because they are not afraid but infact they are sure of the path of trajectory
Every day i have new golf theory though . :)
Uh this ain’t Baseball 🤷🏽♂️🤦🏽
Bro they were just demonstrating it. Obv you don’t hit it like that you’re supposed to to down with what Ben and moe were talking about.
I've found a lot of similarities to the baseball swing, but here is the full video: th-cam.com/video/YTouIPdVjUQ/w-d-xo.html
Hogan said the golf swing is just like the baseball swing, taken down to a ball on the ground.
Great tip! Bryson DeChambeau is a student of the golf swing and hits farther than almost anyone!
This Moe/ Ben golf swing.
why are you repeating what theyve already told us...by the way its totally exaggerrated...wrong in fact...you hit with the legs and arms together..or youll be weak and late
Watch the full video for context, this is just a clip: th-cam.com/video/YTouIPdVjUQ/w-d-xo.html