Well, THIS conversation got OUT OF hand!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 พ.ค. 2023
- We tried to have a conversation about Tattoo History that ended up in a VERY different place. So strap your selves in for this lively debate this week!
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100% it is never sterile. 13 years in the NHS has taught me that our industry at best is only ‘clinically clean’
Doesn’t that go for every industry
Coil Machines are wonderful. I know this comment is out of place. But it’s nice to think about them from time to time
This is probably the best conversation I’ve heard in a loooong time about tattooing.
Did he say you hit softer then a 1 mil stroke?😂
Damn. The audio is sounding hella crispy in this episode. Whatever you’re doing it sounds great. Love the laidback setting 👍
One of the best Tattoo channels on TH-cam. Thanks guys.
53.00 nail on the head Paul. I’ve been saying this for years. Over here (Netherlands) we get an inspection every three years to renew our tattooing license, and we have to pay big bucks for it. After the inspection is done and you get your license, you’ll never see them again until the next inspection is due. And by that time we have to contact them ourself to set up a new appointment for the inspection. It’s just money grabbing. If they actually care, they could at least provide a proper training course for that money so people actually know what they are doing and what for.
Btw, over here we pay €472,56 for someone telling you to put your gloves on after a piss 😂
bad grammier bad speeling noooo cheeking shit boiisss 😂
The timer thing I get but there’s parts of the process that should be billed . If I’m doing a day session then sizing up of the stencil and piecing together of a large stencil is all part of the cost . It’s an essential part of the process . It would be like saying “ I don’t charge for the line work” . It’s all part of doing the tattto .
Totally agree. Every part of the process should be billable, including the crating of the artwork. I was just pointing out that the timer feature may only be useful to some artists but it should still be considered a requirement of a power source and not a useless feature as was suggested - p
i get what chris is saying, but any knowledge that furthers the understanding of any craft plays a role in one’s own, subconsciously or not. i think paul was definitely trying to get that point across, but it came off as “why do we do what we do,” whereas chris took a more literal stance with a “why should we care if i’m good at it” approach hahah. great discussion for sure with valid points from the both of you. i’m with paul, however. history is all about learning about what works and doesn’t; avoid the mistakes of history’s past. does it make you a great tattooist to know it? no, but does knowing it make you better than those who don’t? it definitely can…as long as your art isn’t shit 😂
Excellent episode! I tattooed 10 years in prison . You gotta do what you can and f the rest. Tattooing was better when it wasnt mainstream. Unfortunately they continue regulate stuff more and more. Try getting a Tattooing license in California. Its all about revenue not saftey. Washington state used to have no requirements for years then they realized Tattooing was getting big. The tribal tattoo days Paul and the tramp stamps were everywhere so they wanted their cut.
I do agree about shady ink companies who refuse to say whats in their stuff. Then we have china 😂completely unregulated. They will print fake labels and what ever. Theres so many stupid rules and bs nowadays theres no way i could work at a shop.
Anyway best show so far. I loved it. Both of you!
Very true. The future of tattooing will be very interesting to navigate. Thanks for the kind words. Keep scribbling!
@@ThatTattooShow thats right. Im gunna start a tattooed produce line soon haha..oranges and grapefruits arent safe around me. Actually I'm getting into machine building so not much scribbling in my future.
I LOVE it Paul, he the man 👍 he knows the way 🤘 Cult of Paul
On the hospital note, a big argument I have seen about the MRSA stuff *This is a lot of second hand information and I have not done deep research on it* is because they switched from brass handles to aluminum and they haven't been cleaning the aluminum properly. Why does brass matter? It's supposed to have self cleaning qualities over time reducing germ and bacteria build up.
Oddly I started watching this thinking Chris would have been the one all over respecting the history.
It’s not about respecting it or disrespecting it. History is great, but learning it is not necessarily going to make you a better artist. I know artists that are amazing and know nothing about the global history of tattooing. They were just taught tattooing as a trade 20-30 years ago and have kept themselves to themselves. I also know people who are super knowledgeable when it comes to the history of tattooing and can’t tattoo for shit. So that’s why I’m saying you don’t “need” to know the history of tattooing to be good at it, although if you have an interest in it then that’s good.
Chris.
Almost necessarily. Knowledge will bring you skills, and knowing history is plain knowledge. Is not mandatory to make you a good artist, but surely will make you a better artist
I work with a Cheyenne thunder for over 5 years and I never had a Cheyenne cartridge broken never. Now I work with the sol Tera and sol nova and I still have one broken cartridge 🤷🏼♂️
I was taught tattoo history (mainly Australian History) but very thankful i did get that knowledge. I don't think its 100% necessary to know to become a better tattooist, but it cant hurt, if i ever did teach someone i would make them learn it. They'd be learning how to make needles so they have a better understanding why it's made a certain way and what works for each artist might be different. We have the whole licencing thing here also, my State doesn't have it but other States do. It's 100% a cash grab in most states (QLD Tattooist licence 1 year $1,014 AUD), you're learning from someone who has no real life experience in tattooing and I think that's important, the whole course is based around how to wash your hands correctly. I think a proper blood born pathogens course would be more appropriate so you have the knowledge on why you are doing what you are doing and how to be safe about it.
Good morning ! I use the clean hand dirty hand technique and I did have someone tell me I should put gloves on both hands... wich i think is absurd as I touch everything thing in my shop when setting up and gloves keep germs and bacteria more than hands do... wash hands after taking gloves off! And HOW to take gloves off and on, there's a technique.
I did realise about the cartridge plunger by watching you guys talk about it an other video and it was an eye opener, thanks about that!
Awesome video as always and I appreciate how you two can get into somewhat intense debate and keep it respectful 😂 most interesting part is watching the bickering 😂
Owned a Bishop liner for about a year I guess.. use it most days, think I’ve had 2 carts pop, you know instantly as they begin to rattle. Changed the cart, job done.. in fairness I don’t often use it for hours and hours but I’ve had very few issue. A cart is about £2 as an average, no issue really.. I find changing a liner on a longer lining session helpful anyway, keep it crisp.. happy customers equals returning customers and good word of mouth ..😊 as Paul rightly said, my business IS my responsibility.. it’s good to care about what you do
Best show to date !
Awesome job guys!
Glad you enjoyed it!
I think I would have fit right in back in the old days, I like making things and playing with things. Staring tattooing at home just as rotary and pens where coming in, with shitty chinese coil machines I made sure to learn how to strip and rebuild my machines, got into soldering that came in handy to fix the machines, and to build a foot pedal out of a mousetrap but loved every step of the way.
Sorry about the bad grammar left handed ginger dyslexic 😂 words are hard🤣
😂😂 yes boys remember to wash your hands when you take a piss I’ll invoice you the £70 👍🏻
Awesome episode.
Tattoo history is important as we are standing on the shoulders of giants, yet alot of tattoo artists don't know who the giants are.....which is sad and disrespectful in my opinion.
We do what we do, even technically is because of them and their practices, good and bad.
When I have spoken to the young, cool, trendy tattoo artists and they don't know who filip leu is, I wanna slap the machine out their hand. Grrrrrr
Top show today 🎉🎉🎉🎉
I’m with the long haired bloke on this one 😉👍🏻
Paul Talbot (the lhb) pleased to meet you.
Elo mate 👍🏻
Hi Paul and Chris,
Since you guys talked a lot about "tattoo history" would be cool if you guys could also recommend books or a site, that has reliable information about tattoo history.
For starters:
Hori Smoki - the Sailor Jerry movie
Tattoo Nation - history of black and grey
Vice also made a series called tattoo age with many great artists.
I’ll dig out my books etc and post them here. That’s just a fun starting place 👍 - p
@@ThatTattooShow that's super helpful, thank you guys. Keep the good work!
I'm going to play devils advocate for a minute:
So people who argue against tattoo equipment being being freely available don't understand the alternative.
I have seen some horrific shit when it comes to tattoos and piercings in my time, good example of this is one time my friend was going to a different city to hang out with a friend who was going to complete a few piercings on him. I did piercings at the time so when he uttered this sentence I shuttered.
He said "Yeah my friend is almost ready, he just finished sterilizing his needles" To which I pointed out how insane that was and told him "I can't stop you but for the love of God if you decide to let him pierce you, don't let him use his needles" Then proceeded to give him a few brand new sterilized needles.
Anyway with that perspective, there is many people who will try and tattoo with sewing needles and all sorts of nonsense, the higher the barrier of entry for purchasing proper gear will not encourage these people to do any better, they will simply use worse alternatives.
Information and equipment should be so abundant that there should be no excuse for using sub par procedures or equipment.
Addressing another point, why don't we have tattoo courses as an NVQ in technical colleges yet? It's long overdue lol
Side note, if you ever go to a Pharmacy or Chemist and ask them for Canula needles, they will think you are a drug addict lol
How’s the weight or the Musotoku battery compare to the Critical shorty?
Will let you know in the review
So basically the only reason these companies make closed system pen machines is to sell you more stuff , they are perfectly capable of making a machine thats fully cleanable with user swap cams etc, as paul said, its all about the money and most dont give a fk about the artist or client. Whatever makes them the most money is what they will do, I wouldnt defend such a stupid choice by manufacturers. They can make better safer products yet choose not to for more money. regardless of the whats sterile argument or proper handling , it could be better. with proper technique you can maintain a very clean machine. But accidents can happen and why should we have to void the warranty just to do things the right way. The bishop wand can be opened and fully cleaned with no tools simply unscrewing the top by hand. All machines should be this easy to clean. Or not sold at all. Hell we are getting safer machines from china than some that are made in the usa for 4x the price. Why do we even accept this crap from them? Its poor design choice and not taking the number 1 concern into consideration client safety.
I agree on some points but also disagree. If it wasn’t safe they wouldn’t be able to make the machines in such a manner.
A lot of this comes down to artists who are uneducated when it comes to infection prevention control procedures, how to break the chain of infection etc.
While I completely agree that we should be allowed to open up and maintain machines ourselves. Calling them unsafe because you can’t do this is an un factual and general statement. Machines are only unsafe when people are not using the correct methods to maintain, handle and clean their equipment.
Also take into consideration that many cheap “clone” machines haven’t undergone any of the safety testing to be sold in Europe etc. so while you can strip down a machine, you also put your self at risk with the battery blowing as you don’t know if they have met the safety standards.
:)c
@That Tattoo Show it should be the manufacturers job to make sure they are as safe as possible, even a safe tattoo machine as you put it could be designed in a way to be even safer, they should included detailed instructions with the machine on proper cleaning and care of fully opening to the drive mechanism to inspect for contamination on a regular basis instead of saying don't open it or you void your warranty, what a load of crap that is. I see alot of top teir artists with their cartridge needles in a dirty area of their work space. As a manufacturer trying to make the best safest tools for the job they should take this into consideration that even by an experienced artist a plunger of a cartridge may become contaminated at some point. And provide simple and effective steps to check and clean the machine. Back to the bishop wand or acus , no tools , no risk of explosion from disassembly easy to clean and maintain. Some manufacturers are doing it right so we shouldn't settle for any less especially if your paying top dollar for your equipment.
Everything had risks when it comes to how the person operating it uses the device.
From my understanding and speaking to actual medical professionals at a government level. If all infection control protocols are followed and the correct barrier, carts and cleaning are used then they are safe.
To get further clarification on the matter I’ve emailed the top three manufacturers the same question regarding this topic.
So I’ll see what they come back with.
@That Tattoo Show yup and manufacturers could minimize this risk further, the fact is there is no reason to make a closed system pen machine but there is a reason to make an open cleanable one. Regardless of what officials , experts etc say. One way is better than the other that's all there is to it.
I think this is more opinion based and some people really don’t like a closed system. I also think that if you really don’t want to use a closed system then there are plenty of other options available. Calling machines unsafe when it’s not factually correct just shows that people are either uneducated on IPC or are completely lazy and ignorant of the correct procedures.
As I always say, I welcome the ability to open and maintain a machine. I’m also aware that just because I can’t do that it doesn’t make them unsafe.
And the next TH-camr boxing match is...
@That Tattoo Show like I can understand this poor design choice on a first or second generation machine but for fks sakes it's clear what artists want when this is a new 2023 release . Who cares what "officials" say. Ground level artists are asking for machines to be cleaner and easier to maintain so do it if you want us to keep buying your products. Artists speak with your wallets don't take this crap when you know it could be better
Maybe artists who feel this strongly about it should invest in researching and building a machine to suit their specific needs. I’m sure that if it wasn’t safe they wouldn’t make them this way.
Granted, some “ground level artists” are asking for the ability to open their machines. Although not everyone is asking, is that the minority of people are asking for this because they are lazy when it comes to following IPC procedures and doing everything they can to make sure the machine is wrapped? Is it because the way in which they work and handle their equipment causes the introduction of more contaminants? If so that says more about the artist not being fully competent and educated on IPC.
So rather than kicking off at trying to make a company make a machine to suit your needs. Either buy a machine that suits your needs or do some research on IPC etc and follow those procedures.
The ability to open a machine for maintenance is something i welcome. Although calling them unsafe just shows how little people are educated in infection control procedures and highlights that said people ideally need to look at the way they work.
Can we have a Paul Talbot spin off show that doesn’t feature Chris?
No, I’m nothing without my mate. Sorry - p