TL;DR: Yes, please be extra vigilant. One thing that I neglected to stress about skydivers in the traffic pattern is that we teach canopy pilots to fly predictably. We often will point out to newer skydivers that pilots of aircraft have something we don’t: radios! Pilots can communicate with each other and the ground explicitly and immediately. Canopy pilots, on the other hand, can shout as loud as they want and not be heard by anyone, so once you are “in the pattern” (below about 1200’ AGL), the left hand pattern is essential, because flying predictably means the person behind you can expect you to make left turns once in the downwind leg of the approach. We also teach that you should avoid drastic or erratic turns once on final approach. As far as aircraft pilots are concerned, one would expect that at a busy airport with simultaneous skydiving and GA operations that they use the tools they have (radio) to communicate the presence of skydiving activities. The reality is that with speed and power and the ability to climb, an aircraft will be upon a skydiver well before the skydiver realizes or can do anything about it and has arguably more tools available to avoid any contact with the squishy meat bag suspended from the fancy fabric wing. It is therefore incumbent on the aircraft pilot to keep well clear of the skydiver. As I mentioned in the video, landing a parachute on an active runway or taxiway is almost always avoidable, and we have “beer penalties” when caught setting foot on tarmac. Self-policing is a strong instinct when it comes to skydivers, especially where interaction with aircraft is concerned.
@@ajpen2587 awesome thank you so much for taking the time to provide this additional feedback. It’ll help strike a safe balance between being too cautious (waiting 20 minutes for all skydivers to be on the ground) and being reckless. We can coexist!! I’m not sure why CFIs don’t spend more time with their students on this topic.
I just got my B license as a solo skydiver, and the explanation of the controls this person provided was really helpful, easy to visualize, and had great details. Thank you
“Jumpers away over Tullahoma!” That’s me, I’m jumpers over Tullahoma (KTHA). Thank you for respecting our airspace, we definitely get some older pilots that are oblivious we exist. Next time you’re at KTHA, stop by and say hi. We’d be thrilled to show you what life outside the airplane door is like.
Being a skydiver for 35 years and a pilot for 32 years, I appreciate all of the information conveyed in this video. I learned that the guy with dreadlocks thinks he’s cool and that the skydiver thinks he’s a big deal. Thank you. Now if you’re a pilot who wants to actually know something helpful, here you go: All skydiving operations happen at small airports that are usually not very busy at all. If you’re approaching said airport and hear “jumpers away“ it’s easy to contact the jump pilot to ask where, etc. Note that if you’re already in the pattern, the jump pilot would know that. It is highly unlikely that the two of you would not be communicating on the CTAF.
Normally non skydiving airplanes aren't circling areas within a dropzone...this guy is absolutely correct for opening chutes...as he should be....I jumped in Longmont Colorado, big altitude openings but hop and pops are common for swoopers. AFL students open their chute at 6k....Lotta time under a parachute in the sky.
First, great interview, couple issues. No… your center of each cell is not locked in. It has cross ports… the air can readily move. The fact the center is closed is a factor of openings. It’s a stiffer wing, the cross-braces actually help to funnel air in the wing… it’s all in design. The other issue is we are not flying stiff wings, by any means. I don’t know where you get 80-90%… there is no unit. I get your intent but to the general public, it’s messy. All in all great job.
Hey, you were in Tullahoma! I've spent many an hour flying skydivers at that airport. This is certainly a topic that more pilots need to familiarize themselves with. Not only is skydiving a protected aviation event, but it's becoming extremely common. Just take a look at the map in Foreflight, center on the south, then zoom out. You'll rapidly figure out that drop zones are all over the place. Spend a day on 122.8 about 5,000 feet above my airport and you'll easily pick up over a dozen skydive operations taking place...even more over on 123.0.
Perhaps I could weight in here, I am a Licensed Skydiver and hopeful future pilot. While yes waiting till all jumpers are down would always be the safest bet it is not necessary. Skydivers will typically be dumped out around 10-13K feet (though I heard in the video it was 7Kish) and will free fall to around 4K (give or take 1K). We then float down under canopy that is very maneuverable to about 1K AGL and start a landing pattern that is just like an aviation landing pattern, downwind, base, final. The landing pattern will always be whatever gives us a final into the wind since we can essentially create out own runway every time. The pattern will be set for the day by the drop zone according to the winds, and can change if there is a significant wind change. However unlike aircraft our pattern takes place basically right over the field/landing zone. A Jumper under canopy in the pattern would likely never be more than a few hundred yards from the touchdown zone. So think of class B airspace around a major airport and take that up-side down cake and make it a super skinny Christmas tree (point down of course) going up from the landing zone. Even way up at 12-13K feet (again AGL since that is all skydivers ever care about) we would be within a few miles of the airport since we are dropped into the winds aloft so they will push us back toward the airport, both in free fall and under canopy. So I hope that description is helpful for pilots to understand, but generally if you are landing or taking off from an airport with skydiving activity you are usually lower to the ground than we are 95% of the time and when you aren't you are much farther away from the field than us. I have seen planes on the roll below me as I come in and fly my pattern etc. The biggest danger is when you are overlying an airport that has jumper activity, when you could be at 3-10K feet AGL over the airfield when jumpers are in free fall and cannot get out of the way and moving at 120-150MPH, mostly strait down.
Very informative. Great video, I had no idea they had so much control. I just assumed you pull the handles to slow down and leaned into the direction you wanted to go.
The only real difference between our aircraft and yours is the engine when you break it down. You wouldn't believe how maneuverable a high performance canopy can be. All that goes out the window when we discuss round parachutes; a military paratrooper canopy is just a decelerator, with very little control over direction and no ability to flare like an aircraft. Landing a round parachute is not even a consideration in sport skydiving - they hit the ground hard!
Lol when I was skydiving we never followed any of these rules. It was to tell the pilot the altitude, check the spot, cut the engine and go. Never even thought about other jumpers.
CReW will be the longest in the sky as they deploy straight from the door and then spend the whole flight (up to 15k) under canopy. I'd say that's probs the slowest/longest skydive. Many PTO's will have regulations to separate aircraft traffic from parachutists such as minimum heights for runway crossing so each PTO can be different with some catering for dual operations and others stopping operations
@@sators Do it! A tandem skydive offers the best risk-cost-reward benefit on the planet, for my money. We have done the math on this... It won't be the thing that kills you. I feel safer landing on my own two feet than I do watching you guys land a tricycle in a 45deg crosswind!
I’m not so sure about that. When I manipulate the risers and look up, the shape of the wing indeed changes shape. I agree that the centre of gravity changes, but the wing is still being distorted by that control input.
Wow, he gave that pilot so much general information and most of it-while informative-was useless. Tip, go ask the guys running the operation about the type of jumping going on and he'll be better able to let you know how long most jumps will take and what area around the field is a good place to avoid.
I do see your argument, however, from my perspective and many others who are transient at an airport, maybe stopping thru for fuel or food, it’s hard to ask the guys running the operation when you are arriving at the airport for the first time while jumps are occurring…
What I'm saying is that the presentation was so broad that it gives very little useful data to the pilot. It gave almost an Indefinite period of time for each jump and if you don't know how many jump plane are up and what type they are, well where does that leave you?@@sators
So engineers are over represented in skydiving from what I hear, not sure if the skydiver is an engineer but as an engineer myself and someone who skydives, I loved it. I loved his explanation of how the parachute is constructed as it gave the pilot an overview of how skydiving can vary and that timing is dependent on a lot of variables just like flying a plane. :). I get what you're saying though. I very much enjoyed this video.
Did you ask him if we, as pilots, should do anything different or continue to operate in the pattern just as we would but just be extra vigilant?
TL;DR: Yes, please be extra vigilant.
One thing that I neglected to stress about skydivers in the traffic pattern is that we teach canopy pilots to fly predictably. We often will point out to newer skydivers that pilots of aircraft have something we don’t: radios! Pilots can communicate with each other and the ground explicitly and immediately. Canopy pilots, on the other hand, can shout as loud as they want and not be heard by anyone, so once you are “in the pattern” (below about 1200’ AGL), the left hand pattern is essential, because flying predictably means the person behind you can expect you to make left turns once in the downwind leg of the approach. We also teach that you should avoid drastic or erratic turns once on final approach.
As far as aircraft pilots are concerned, one would expect that at a busy airport with simultaneous skydiving and GA operations that they use the tools they have (radio) to communicate the presence of skydiving activities. The reality is that with speed and power and the ability to climb, an aircraft will be upon a skydiver well before the skydiver realizes or can do anything about it and has arguably more tools available to avoid any contact with the squishy meat bag suspended from the fancy fabric wing. It is therefore incumbent on the aircraft pilot to keep well clear of the skydiver. As I mentioned in the video, landing a parachute on an active runway or taxiway is almost always avoidable, and we have “beer penalties” when caught setting foot on tarmac. Self-policing is a strong instinct when it comes to skydivers, especially where interaction with aircraft is concerned.
@@ajpen2587 awesome thank you so much for taking the time to provide this additional feedback. It’ll help strike a safe balance between being too cautious (waiting 20 minutes for all skydivers to be on the ground) and being reckless. We can coexist!! I’m not sure why CFIs don’t spend more time with their students on this topic.
My big question is. How much does that hair smell
I just got my B license as a solo skydiver, and the explanation of the controls this person provided was really helpful, easy to visualize, and had great details.
Thank you
“Jumpers away over Tullahoma!” That’s me, I’m jumpers over Tullahoma (KTHA). Thank you for respecting our airspace, we definitely get some older pilots that are oblivious we exist. Next time you’re at KTHA, stop by and say hi. We’d be thrilled to show you what life outside the airplane door is like.
Awesome! I did chat with one of the jump plane pilots a little last time I passed thru. Likely stopping by for a fuel up this weekend!
Being a skydiver for 35 years and a pilot for 32 years, I appreciate all of the information conveyed in this video. I learned that the guy with dreadlocks thinks he’s cool and that the skydiver thinks he’s a big deal. Thank you.
Now if you’re a pilot who wants to actually know something helpful, here you go: All skydiving operations happen at small airports that are usually not very busy at all. If you’re approaching said airport and hear “jumpers away“ it’s easy to contact the jump pilot to ask where, etc. Note that if you’re already in the pattern, the jump pilot would know that. It is highly unlikely that the two of you would not be communicating on the CTAF.
Now you have to try skydiving! It's amazing
That's what I hear!
Normally non skydiving airplanes aren't circling areas within a dropzone...this guy is absolutely correct for opening chutes...as he should be....I jumped in Longmont Colorado, big altitude openings but hop and pops are common for swoopers. AFL students open their chute at 6k....Lotta time under a parachute in the sky.
First, great interview, couple issues.
No… your center of each cell is not locked in. It has cross ports… the air can readily move. The fact the center is closed is a factor of openings. It’s a stiffer wing, the cross-braces actually help to funnel air in the wing… it’s all in design. The other issue is we are not flying stiff wings, by any means. I don’t know where you get 80-90%… there is no unit. I get your intent but to the general public, it’s messy.
All in all great job.
Hey, you were in Tullahoma! I've spent many an hour flying skydivers at that airport. This is certainly a topic that more pilots need to familiarize themselves with. Not only is skydiving a protected aviation event, but it's becoming extremely common. Just take a look at the map in Foreflight, center on the south, then zoom out. You'll rapidly figure out that drop zones are all over the place. Spend a day on 122.8 about 5,000 feet above my airport and you'll easily pick up over a dozen skydive operations taking place...even more over on 123.0.
Fantastic! Thanks for the info!
Perhaps I could weight in here, I am a Licensed Skydiver and hopeful future pilot. While yes waiting till all jumpers are down would always be the safest bet it is not necessary. Skydivers will typically be dumped out around 10-13K feet (though I heard in the video it was 7Kish) and will free fall to around 4K (give or take 1K). We then float down under canopy that is very maneuverable to about 1K AGL and start a landing pattern that is just like an aviation landing pattern, downwind, base, final. The landing pattern will always be whatever gives us a final into the wind since we can essentially create out own runway every time. The pattern will be set for the day by the drop zone according to the winds, and can change if there is a significant wind change. However unlike aircraft our pattern takes place basically right over the field/landing zone. A Jumper under canopy in the pattern would likely never be more than a few hundred yards from the touchdown zone. So think of class B airspace around a major airport and take that up-side down cake and make it a super skinny Christmas tree (point down of course) going up from the landing zone. Even way up at 12-13K feet (again AGL since that is all skydivers ever care about) we would be within a few miles of the airport since we are dropped into the winds aloft so they will push us back toward the airport, both in free fall and under canopy.
So I hope that description is helpful for pilots to understand, but generally if you are landing or taking off from an airport with skydiving activity you are usually lower to the ground than we are 95% of the time and when you aren't you are much farther away from the field than us. I have seen planes on the roll below me as I come in and fly my pattern etc.
The biggest danger is when you are overlying an airport that has jumper activity, when you could be at 3-10K feet AGL over the airfield when jumpers are in free fall and cannot get out of the way and moving at 120-150MPH, mostly strait down.
Great insight!
Any old time jumpers from the ppc in Sheridan Oregon around?
Very informative. Great video, I had no idea they had so much control. I just assumed you pull the handles to slow down and leaned into the direction you wanted to go.
The only real difference between our aircraft and yours is the engine when you break it down. You wouldn't believe how maneuverable a high performance canopy can be. All that goes out the window when we discuss round parachutes; a military paratrooper canopy is just a decelerator, with very little control over direction and no ability to flare like an aircraft. Landing a round parachute is not even a consideration in sport skydiving - they hit the ground hard!
Lol when I was skydiving we never followed any of these rules. It was to tell the pilot the altitude, check the spot, cut the engine and go. Never even thought about other jumpers.
CReW will be the longest in the sky as they deploy straight from the door and then spend the whole flight (up to 15k) under canopy. I'd say that's probs the slowest/longest skydive. Many PTO's will have regulations to separate aircraft traffic from parachutists such as minimum heights for runway crossing so each PTO can be different with some catering for dual operations and others stopping operations
Define "PTO"...?
@@sators Parachute Training Organisation (A location approved by the governing association suitable for parachuting operations)
So now you're gonna try skydiving?
Hehe - bombs away!
@@sators Do it! A tandem skydive offers the best risk-cost-reward benefit on the planet, for my money. We have done the math on this... It won't be the thing that kills you. I feel safer landing on my own two feet than I do watching you guys land a tricycle in a 45deg crosswind!
With front/risers u r not changing the shape of the wing. U just change position of center of gravity 👍🏻
I’m not so sure about that. When I manipulate the risers and look up, the shape of the wing indeed changes shape. I agree that the centre of gravity changes, but the wing is still being distorted by that control input.
Wow, he gave that pilot so much general information and most of it-while informative-was useless. Tip, go ask the guys running the operation about the type of jumping going on and he'll be better able to let you know how long most jumps will take and what area around the field is a good place to avoid.
I do see your argument, however, from my perspective and many others who are transient at an airport, maybe stopping thru for fuel or food, it’s hard to ask the guys running the operation when you are arriving at the airport for the first time while jumps are occurring…
What I'm saying is that the presentation was so broad that it gives very little useful data to the pilot. It gave almost an Indefinite period of time for each jump and if you don't know how many jump plane are up and what type they are, well where does that leave you?@@sators
So engineers are over represented in skydiving from what I hear, not sure if the skydiver is an engineer but as an engineer myself and someone who skydives, I loved it. I loved his explanation of how the parachute is constructed as it gave the pilot an overview of how skydiving can vary and that timing is dependent on a lot of variables just like flying a plane. :). I get what you're saying though. I very much enjoyed this video.
Junior zoomie