When hellstab doesn't work
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ต.ค. 2024
- It's painful, but we have to re live it...You know how it is
Join the grapplin' fun at / siberianlab
Sources:
Hifight tweet:
/ 1802275399235437027
Esports World Cup TH-cam video for top 8:
• Fighters - Qualifiers ...
Broski's tweet:
/ 1802366123981074478
Punk's Vlog:
• THE ROAD TO EVO JAPAN ...
Ultimate Frame Data, Zangief:
ultimateframed...
Fat's Zangief entry:
fullmeter.com/...
![The Wall Song ร้องข้ามกำแพง | EP.213 | กรีน อัษฎาพร | 3 ต.ค. 67 [1/5]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/3KrlLbCsadI/mqdefault.jpg)
He tweeted that he went for an easier combo but wasn't ready cause he didn't practice it
Yeah, read the whole thing, and it's quite painful still. He mentions 2MP into super level 3 would've been a better choice. The fact someone has to "choose" for a better BNB is quite annoying with Gief. Damn...
Am i buggin, wouldnt the heavy sdp be enough to finish Akuma?
@@newphonewhodis7152 No
@@newphonewhodis7152It's a bit iffy when scaling. I'd say, probably? But in a tournament setting, I'd imagine you'd wanna go with what you know for sure closes out. I immediately thought of Lariat into B.Dynamite, which I believe combos now, yeah?
@@TheShotgunShovel if it does i never got it. And yeah im not backseating here, i dropped worse stuff only in ranked, i was just feeling like he could get a heavy SPD which has next to no risks (against a stunned opponent)
I watched the entire stream…..he took the loss well on the spot. Man I felt for him. Could have been his in winners and could have been his twice in losers. He advances though so the thrill ride continues!!!
every gief player knows the struggle of this combo.....even itazan drops this shit....thats how hard it is
I can't get it even remotely consistent.. TILL THIS DAY!
Itazan’s been playing Zangief longer than some pro players have been alive. It’s not a skill issue lol it’s a cursed input with little time to cancel into QCF punch. If they made it down back or even back it’d drop way less.
I think the elephant in the room is Lariat not hitting crossups. Gief's current kit is very strong, but in another universe where that got buffed instead of wheelhouse or knee, he never even ends up in that situation.
Hell yeah
It's something you kinda have to live with since no anti-air can beat cross up without doing crosscut, and it's an inherent weakness to most characters with great neutral control (excluding S1 JP but that's clearly because he is overturned to shit). Hellstab is just a hard to execute cancel tbh.
I think it's a good defined weakness, you need to jump back SPD on reaction or parry if people cross up jump after walking up. You can also delay sHP and OD Lariat, but it's hard and it depends on angle.
There's also video from Snake Eyez talking about how hellstab inputs are messed up and hard to do, and the screen freeze from green stuff messes stuff even more.
The issue with hellstab is the cancel window being so weird.
I am gutted of the way he lost to Kawano, he was the better player out the five matches if not for the silly drop...
Yes. Also the fact that headbutt has quite a few recovery frames so there's a wait time before your inputs actually get registered
@@gp381 but that's every combo in the game when you go from heavy to medium
Definitely is the cancel window
Omg when I saw that dropped combo i threw my hands in the air in frustration.
It hurt.
hellstab is named for gief players, its hell
I drop hellstab combos more than 5 times per session.
Try once per match 😂
On modern Gief, I mess up hellstab and keep doing knee kick lol
My heart broke when I saw Itazan drop that combo... Yes, hahaha, I too have dropped hellstab into SA2 sooo many times.
Drop was painful, and it’s also worth mentioning he failed to bait about 100 OD DP’s during the set too. He had his opportunities for sure.
"We don't finish combos in this house" is all I ever yell when I'm playing 😅
Ahaha. That happens to me too.
I don't understand why level 2 isn't qcb. It has the vibe that it should be from the animation, and that would make the combo about ten times easier. But I guess if Gief had a super route the same difficulty as literally every other character in the game he'd be too strong
I think QCB wouldn't solve the issue. You'd have to go from df to back in a very fast motion. Someone mentioned forward MP should be the input for chops and just standing mp for hellstab. To be honest, I feel that could be a great solution.
@@SiberianLab That would also work. I guess I'm just more used to that kind of execution from only really playing sf4
Now I am feeling less upset of myself not able to do it consistently. Btw, Itazan could have use go for headbutt into Lv2 instead, which should also kill.
Dont know if its a skill issue or something with my controller, but I keep missing the headbutt into hellstab link by being 1 frame late, even though I'm mashing it (at least I think I am)
Same for me
So I had the same problem where I was mashing and wondering why it wasn’t working, but I figured out that mashing doesn’t make it come out as early as possible. It’s a lot more consistent to do if you try to do the inputs precisely. I practiced not mashing and just doing it through precision and I hit it way more often, and when it doesn’t work, I know why it didn’t and where I need to adjust on my timings because I’m not blindly mashing
I'd say, change Hellstab to 4MP. (down-back MP) Easier to buffer into quarter circles afterwards. Also makes it easier to use Cr.MP+EX Siberian Express while advancing on opponents. I can almost guarantee that Itazan dropped the combo, because he was buffering Lv.2 while inputting for Hellstab. It's currently awkward as hell (ha!) to do that. The change would, in theory, prevent this...
Doing back motions is objectively a nerf to Zangief cancels. If anything, they need to do them with neutral or forward.
When I see how Itazan loses it makes me happy that droped SF6. Even after the buff Zangef needs more fixes. Devs just hates grapplers.
He's very, very close to being good.
I pretty oftenly drop headbutt into hellstab, idk why even if Im mashing hellstab asap after headbutt, sometimes my hellstab gets blocked, is there a way to improve consistency?
don't mash the input, learn the timing, and yes, it's a very tight timing window
I don't main Gief, but i've always found hellstab combos to be the most awkward cancels in the game. Everyone who's ever used Zangief knows it first hand. lmao
When I play local tournaments at the casino I don't use hellstab into level 2 because it's inconsistent for me to execute on stage. And even then I play on stick so I just piano my super imputs in combos
It's sad we have to circumvent around hellstab just because of how hard it is. That combo is supposed to be a bnb.
maybe the input should be changed to forward MP?
This is actually a very good idea, delegate chops to neutral/back mp
Yes please.
I want a different input specifically for hellstab lvl 2. 3 3 punch or 3 3 6 punch. I practice it every day and i want to do advanced stuff already!
Some notes:
SA2 will fail to combo from the last FOUR cancel frames of 3mp. That and for other reasons sa2 should really be sped up, 18f startup makes no sense.
As for the tangent at the end, he really could have just done a normal jump attack there and not taken the risk
And this is intended design as single hit confirming into level 2 would be completely stupid. While it's possible now, it's hard.
@@Agonystt not only do you not know that and that probably isnt the reason sa2 is 18f startup , but plenty of characters can single hit confirm into super off POKES let alone a stubby normal like hellstab
@@TheFatManatee that's just obvious my guy. Other characters level 2s don't do level 3 damage like Gief's.
Considering the meter of both players, the least risky option was a back jump. It was pretty smart, tbh, since the punish from Itazan would've been the win anyways. It doesn't seem like it, however, it was a pretty much closed situation.
I would love to know if he uses 4gate or 8gate. The game is an 8 way directional game, and I found using 4gate causes confusion as to when u are pressing horizontal or diagonal. I would not be surprised that he uses 4gate.
also, i noticed the Jump HP>Headbutt>dr standing HK> hellstab>lariat combo just...randomly drops on the hellstab, no matter how many times i've practiced it. to the point where i just turn the HK into another headbutt (-100 dmg). I thought it was skill issue or timing at first but now i'm not so sure. I really think it's positioning or spacing, and that just seems really bad.
anyway, do you think they will ever fix lariat (have it hit behind like every other instance in every other game)? I don't think they will...
What do you think of going Down-Forward Throw in the 2nd situation. I like it for similar situations in Platinum rank because of the relative safety compared to SPD and the strong Oki follow ups feel more valuable to me than the damage in spite of possibly resetting to neutral if they tech.
At the range he was in, the throw would've whiffed. Without super 1, the back jump goes unpunishable. At the end of the day, you do have to use spinebuster a lot. Without meter, tho, it's a hard call when someone jumps, specially forward.
It’s an unnecessary difficult input and makes no sense for the Devs to add this.
y'know i had the exact same thought the 2 days post akuma patch i played, (i'm new fist 6B fighter came from GG and dbfz) placed Dia1 with Geif. so 2 days if geif post akuma patch i just have headbutt into hellstab failing SO! SO! much i kept joking with friends i was stroking out. but my initial thoughts was yea headbutt got buffed but its still 1f shit (imo) well i dont want headbutt buffed more maybe we could lower hellstab startup by 1F to just make it a tiny bit more forgiving. but then gave up the idea feeling i'd be flamed by top tier mains crying how actually good geif is now and he doesnt need anymore more in fact he got to much n needs dmg nerfs (my friends saying this are all 25k+ master) except one a guile main who agree with me and feels like if it feels like shit it should be fixed. where everyone else is just like well on paper it's fine so stfu skill isssue.
I wonder how are they going to change that BNB in the future. For sure they know the inconsistency is too much for a competitive game.
Would jump in bodyslam into headbutt into SA2 have killed? Think the slam does more damage than the chop.
Air headbutt > headbutt > level 2 and he's dead. But there's no reason not to go for Hellstab level 2.
After analyzing all the options, the easiest combo for the win was jump back lariat, super level 1. I think he mistook the amount of frames due to double dash.
@@SiberianLab Possibly. But like the poster above said there should be no reason not to go for hellstab into lvl 2.
Hm. Just thought I was ass when I drop mine but it looks to be an actual issue. I saw the highlights and when I saw that I was like, "Ain't no way this is happening to Itazan too."
Snake Eyes could never
i know this this decision was made within milliseconds, but would it have been resolved if he just did a heavy SPD after the stun?
Nope. Even on Akuma, that was not enough damage.
I just started with Gief a few weeks ago and I play on stick. The 21f cancel window seems incorrect, it is extremely tight to the point that you have to buffer the 3mp to combo into double quarter circle forward or it's nearly impossible. I still can't reliably do hellstab into level 2 or level 1.
im just struggling to do hellstab lv2 combo, so I going for ppp lv2 combo instead. It spend 2 more meters but it making the combo more consistence.
Absolutely. In fact, I recommend doing that. Even though you use more meter, it deals more damage and the consistency is welcomed.
@@SiberianLab yeah I rarely use OD 360 to save meter for that.
It's painful, but also a relief to know it's not just me 😅
Edit: I think hellstab > od lariat would've done the trick
he was in burnout
You have all the reason hellstab shouldn’t be this hard and I hate it but as a gief player you know that is a hard combo and is droppable in this situations you do the easier combos in this case only headbuttlvl2 you do easier combos when nerves and difficult games are on the line
Why can't hellstab just be 6MP instead of 3MP
I never droped this combo, just beacuase i never go for it! too risky to my skill level, so headbut into level 2 is my way.
I think it was a skill issue under pressure since the set was so close, the inputs are unorthodox but he dropped the combo and that's it, it's a shame itazan's run had to end that way but it was a positive run and i had fun watching it, it's good to see him doing damage with zangief.
I drop it on p1 side. No issues on p2 side. Still dumb
Cool so it's not just me lol
His play was brilliant to take the hits from fireball to not burnout and the PP into suplex. What a shame.
Yeah. I didn't mention the Russian Suplex, but that was genious. All for a drop at the end. Man...
I think a huge reason they don’t want Gief to be able to combo lights into lariat without spending meter is because it isn’t a move that has a light medium or heavy version, so it is his most damaging finisher by default. As I play Ryu now in addition to Zangief, the difficulty of linking shoryuken off of lights versus hellstab into lariat is big. Motion inputs definitely merit having more options. I don’t think Gief should be able to do lights into lariat but I also think he deserves another special move to compensate for it and finish combos. Doesn’t have to be green hand but he just needs something else I think. I do like his gameplan of using lights to space and mix between light spd and bear grab but not having a dedicated finisher without meter is still annoying even after the buffs.
I mention this because you had mentioned making hellstab f6 (able to combo from cLP naturally when in range)
Just make hellstab 5mp and chops 6mp and all would be good lmao
I think this is not a bad idea. You are onto something there.
Not quite. I'm thinking 4MP. (down-back MP) Makes it easier to motion into quarter circles. Changing chops to 6MP will give a slight delay on it when checking moves while back walking.
and people call Zangief top-tier and complain.
Hes not top tier but he literally dropped the combo, people will see this clip and say "zangief sucks"
Hes easily mid high tier
@@cosmic5665 Zangief is at the bottom.
no invicible reversal means: bottom tier, along all the others second class SF6 citizens