A number of people have asked if they can help support my channel - I don't have any adverts on my channel (and don't intend to) but if anyone wishes to help defray the expenses of making these videos in some small way, they can buy me a cup of coffee! www.buymeacoffee.com/MarkJohnMaguire
Thank you Mark, this was an extremely balanced and fair reporting, such as it always is from you. I particularly liked you expressing admiration for Arbuckle as a motion picture innovator. I was quite stunned by the details of the crime, because the only versions I’d ever read were very PG rated. The one I most remember is that Arbuckle accidentally smothered her(or maybe caused the bladder rupture) simply because of his bulk, and that the trial(s) and subsequent loss of his positive public reputation happened because of the purity culture prevalent in the public’s image of Hollywood stars. That is, he was arrested and tried more because he had been drinking and committing adultery, not because he had an ill intent. Off topic….Virginia really was beautiful. Often when we see images of supposedly attractive people from the past it’s hard to see the attraction, but she had a genuine, luminous beauty. That she died in such pain and that she, effectively, was blamed for her own death by the defence attorneys adds an extra layer of sadness. Thanks again, and as always, kudos.
Thank you for this thoughtful comment, Bilinda - I agree. I think Virginia had a lot going for her - she was a talented woman. It is too much to say she was a "super-model," because of course, modelling was an entirely different thing back then, but she had developed an international career as a model from an early age; designed her own clothes and had attracted the attention of the newspapers before she went into movies. Her career as a film actress was just on the verge of carrying her to stardom. It really does seem to me to have been a sad and untimely end to a woman who had a great deal to offer.
@@TheyGotAwayWithMurder I had never heard about these aspects of Virginia's life. I always thought that she was a young, uncertain girl acquiescing to Arbuckle's demands hoping for a step up in her career. Clearly that was not the case.
I'm finding your branching out from British murders to other nations to be very compelling. I was wondering, what is your opinion on what I would deem more 'speculative murder', such as cases where there was no real obvious suspect? Would you consider tackling mysterious killings like Hinterkaifeck or do you prefer to stick to cases where there is less conjecture? However you feel I always appreciate a video whenever I see it in my inbox.
Omg. He defo got away with me murder . Ms Rappe told everyone who had hurt her . Whether she was of good or bad character . That is not the question. There was only two people in that room and one person ended up dead.
I always thought he was guilty due to locked doors, pajamas, and spontaneous bladder ruptures and bruises. Any thought it could’ve been accidental because of his size, in my opinion, were negated by his callous and entitled behavior. No one there seemed like a saint, but he was over the top.
The death of Olive Thomas is interesting, too. She was a beautiful star married to Jack Pickford, Mary Pickford’s brother. Olive supposedly drank most of a bottle of bichloride of mercury in alcohol…by mistake, it was said. It had been prescribed for Jack’s syphilis. Fatty Arbuckle - some of my late relatives in Aberdare, South Wales, remembered when he lodged with a family they knew, when he was on tour early in his career. . “ He needed two chairs”. ( armless chairs). Apparently, he was polite and pretty quiet but the women in the family didn’t feel at ease with him - certainly not due to his weight, or because he was in showbusiness. He didn’t say or do anything amiss but he stared …a lot. That’s not unusual and might indicate nothing but was a contrast to local chat about Stan Laurel and others, who no one, had been averse to. By the way, people on tour back then used to stay overnight with families in each area, because it was cheaper than staying in hotels. I find it astounding, that some stars in Hollywood ( and in Bollywood in Mumbai, India), were and are often protected from being convicted of crimes due to - money..both the making of it and potential losses. Reporting on past and current crimes helps the public to understand the difference between reality and deliberate illusion. Thank you, for the excellent, video.
My dad spoke of him, once, as he had me change the channel. Said Arbuckle was the lowest form of humanity. I was too young to be told why in the early 60's, but I could tell it was something awful.
My Mom told me the same thing......except I was older, and she said it was sexual, and I immediately knew she meant “rape”. I’ve never truly made up my mind if he was totally to blame or not. I think because of his weight, she had a “bursted bladder” (maybe) , so they put two and two together and got six! 🙄 I know they were nuts, nuts, nuts.....but there are several things that can burst a bladder (if she hadn’t urinated for a while, esp after lots of alcohol)........of course, she wasn’t wearing a seat belt, so that’s one cause gone! 🤭 He took a terrible hit on his movie payouts.......never was the same after that. HOW STUPID! No one thinks when they drinks! 🕊💕🙏💜✝️✡️🙋♀️🌹
Finally a proper look into this case! I remember briefly researching this many years ago, and feeling Arbuckle had been wrongly accused. That was before the autopsy pictures had been released... those awful bruises. I don't know how anyone who sees those could believe that some form of assault did not occur.
I did not even think of this until you mentioned the bruises , It takes a day or more for those deep dark bruises to appear , With Her death so quickly they would not have had time to form ! Blood would have pooled into lower parts of Her body !
@@marykuettner752 argument that night , loud fight that night , found drowned that morning , any injuries received that night would Not show as bruises ! Any bruises would be from older injuries ! She was a victim of much abuse over a long period of time ! This poor Lady was murdered !
The first to place a comment. Have not viewed it as of yet. But, if this is to follow the high standards of narration as previous essays, this will be viewed “many” times!! Thank you MJM. BTW the book is a wonderful page-turner with lovely illustrations 😊
I was very happy to see that there's a new video from you! These are so informative and professionally done that you should actually be on TV. 😊 I've read about this case years ago and I remember thinking then how disgustingly the whole story was told: the most important thing here is not that a man lost his career but that a woman lost her life.
I agree with you - yes indeed. A major motivation for me in covering this case, was the huge injustice that was done to Virginia Rappe, who is (almost without exception) portrayed as a promiscuous, talentless, drunk, who was prone to bladder infections, had endless abortions etc etc. None of this is true - it was initiated by Arbuckle's attorneys and has grown and been expanded ever since by numerous writers who have sought to defend Arbuckle.
Your videos are some of the best on TH-cam! Your interest in the subjects, your research, and the thoroughness of your presentation of all the facts are evident. I have watched many of your videos multiple times because of the excellent quality.
This is exceptionally well-done and the case analysis hard to refute. I hope you will be releasing a book on this case. I look forward to your take on other high-profile cases about powerful figures and their alleged crimes.
Yet again another wonderful instalment of your work. I really appreciate all the time and research you do to produce these videos and historical accounts of past crimes. Thank you. I had heard of this story but never knew the details. I’ve actually stayed in that hotel many times and it has real history due to the earthquake and subsequent fires in San Fran and this unsettling crime. The rooms had high ceilings, large doorways and you could sense the history in the walls and foyer. Thank you for sharing. I’m a loyal fan, it’s hard not to be!!!
Thank you for such a great analysis of the evidence. Indeed, people’s thoughts on such matters have changed, unfortunately, many in Hollywood have not.
My impressions from the little I'd read online years ago were that Arbuckle had been taken down by media senasationalism and that it had just been a tragic accident. The info presented here shines a totally different light on the Arbuckle controversy. Great video thanks.
Oh my goodness, I was have withdrawal symptoms, I was binge watching your older stuff. Great your back, it’s nice to see your take on this Hollywood tale you did it justice, great.
Prior to viewing this excellent piece of reporting, I had only read articles that portrayed Arbuckle as an innocent man who was a victim of public backlash against the excesses of 1920's Hollywood. Your video provided some facts that those articles had conveniently overlooked. For example, I had no idea that Arbuckle changed his version of events several times, and that autopsy results clearly indicated rape . Thanks for yet another fascinating yet balanced look at a famous murder case.
I remember Arbuckle being portrayed as innocent. Rapper was portrayed as promiscuous and I remember one book claimed she had venereal disease. This isn't the first case to blame the victim for the crime.
Another interesting topic and always excellent narration! I've said it before, but this is the best podcast in my opinion. I look forward to each one, as they are so descriptive with no ridiculous, annoying background music save for the intro which sets up the story perfectly. Bravo!
I am a day late!! So glad you post another amazing story made my day! The Jazz age always looked fun but defiantly had its dark side. Cannot wait till your next post :)
@@TheyGotAwayWithMurder I like the old Hollywood mysteries! I’ve always wonder what happened to Peg Entwistle if she jumped off the sign or was murdered.
So why did those women go alone to Weinstein'a hotel bedroom at 3 AM? To solve calculus problems? Most importantly why did they go back to Weinstein, if that bad he was to them?
This is one my mother used to speak about, she used to warn me about going to parties because of what happened to this girl, something about it really horrified her and she had seen her next door neighbour decapitated by a door during the bombing of Aberdeen in the war so it took a bit to freak her out. This did and I can't wait to hear why.
The truth is, if he had not been a star a man like him would never had been looked at twice by most of these women. It is such a waste that those that carry such weight and influence use it for such bad things when they could use it to change the world for the better. Also, too bad we put them up on such a pedestal that we try to emulate them instead of finding someone in our own lives that are much better . Love the way you tell a story..thank you.
Such a brilliant analysis of this well known story. Only issue I have is I have to play twice ! Because your fabulous voice literally sends this old gal off to sleep. You ought to do another channel helping people go to sleep. Brilliantly done, so much interesting Details and facts I never knew. Many thanks 🙏
As a youngster, my parents and grandparents spoke of this in cautious tones. I had no idea of the full story Thank you for the balanced close examination.
I did not know Virginia Rappe had such a successful career and presence.That is not how her story is usually told. She is usually portrayed differently, and very unflatteringly.
Hello Mark, I have been an enormous fan of your channel for some time now. I await your new episodes eagerly and l “like” them even before watching them because your work is amazing and you never disappoint. I have also purchased your book and am looking forward to learning about Madame X, though I will miss your soothing voice reading it to me! I am big fan of silent film and, I must admit, this episode has left me rather shocked. I have always bought the version that Roscoe was innocent, that Virginia’s bladder was ruptured during an illegal abortion and that William Randolph Hearst launched a media campaign against Roscoe to sell more copies of his newspapers. Your analysis of this case is certainly food for thought! Thank you once again for another marvellous episode. Although it is not in line with the theme of your channel, I would love to one day hear your analysis of the 1910 disappearance of Dorothy Arnold ❤️
Thank you, Francy - I am delighted you have bought my book and hope you will like it! I know there is a huge wall of literature which states with apparent authority that Virginia had an abortion/had 5 abortions before she was 16/was pregnant - and so on ad infinitum. But these have their foundation in newspaper stories (although initially Hearst was anti-Arbuckle, as the debacle continued, he switched to a more pro-Arbuckle stance). The majority of these stories have their origin in people like Adela Rogers St Johns, the hollywood journalist, who was a close friend of Arbuckle's, of men like Mack Sennett. And most especially, in the plethora of books and articles which were published after the scandal, and have sought, almost without exception, it seems, to promulgate a false thesis of the affair, which has usually involved doing a great deal to blacken Virginia Rappe's reputation.
I know of this case but never got so much details as you presented, your summary of the case was excellent, love that you included modern comparisons, it's taken a while but hopefully things have changed in the movie industry since recent events. Thank you 🤗
This is a whole new take on the case. One, of which, I never heard before. It forced me to ask all those questions I never thought of before. It also forced me to finally say, "Oh no ... I guess he DID do it!" I'm so sorry that she had to die under such painful and heartbreaking circumstances. I'm also sorry that his career was ended because of his inability to accept the word "no". Because of his need to commit such brutality on a woman.😩
Full of info I hadn't heard or read before. Very thorough researching and excellent presentation! Best on TH-cam! Thank you for all the work and research on this channel.
Still happens to this day. Rich people, take advantage of others for their sexual desires. Epstein took it to a new level. Someone has taken his place.
I look so forward to all of your topics but this one is FANTASIC!!! Absolutely riveting and somewhere a sad Virginia may be smiling instead in her afterlife!!
In one of the (autopsy ?) photos it looks like she has a black eye. With all the other bruises on her it definitely looks like he killed her, doesn’t matter if it wasn’t intentional. Sad for her to be dragged through the mud and blamed for dying.
What a wonderful voice the host has for these types of videos. Makes me think of the great Boris Karloff narrating "How the Grinch Stole Christmas 🎄 😳 "
Joseph Trovato.. The :"Grinch" movie I have has one of my favs.... Anthony Hopkins... to narrates this great story. Boris Karloff would add a cheeky scary tone, delightful ..
Mr. Maguire thank you for this month's refreshing dose of intellect, logic, reason, art and storytelling. For this old man, you provide magic and medicine for the 21st century. You make me want to carry on another month!:-) 🖖
This is the most well rounded, thoughtfully done consideration of what happened I’ve ever seen. As always, you’ve done an exceptional job researching, writing and presenting this.
I've always believed the accepted narrative that Arbuckle was innocent. No more. Thank you for this thorough, thoughtful coverage of this case. Although Virginia Rappé didn't get justice back in 1921, at least a century later we can acknowledge the truth of what happeed to her.
I could only go by what evidence was available and made public, and by how the story was told. Mark has pulled all the evidence together in a coherent, thoughtful narrative and included many things that weren't always common knowledge.
@@lauraorem1276 Yes, I agree. I've never researched it but what I've seen about the case always suggested that it was moral hysteria of the time that got Arbuckle charged and that he was innocent. Normally, this story is told as a footnote to the movie industry morality code that was established in response to the public shock over the debauchery of Hollywood.
How could an Autopsy find 'no evidence of violence' when (Mrs.)Rappe has lots of bruising on her arms and legs-irrefutable proof in photos?!? This is murky to the max imho and proof again that money IS the route of all evil. However when I first had knowledge of this case,6 months or so ago,after buying an Arbuckle DVD(I'd known of him for years prior),I decided to open myself up spriritually and asked for the truth of this matter.Almost immediately Arbuckle himself came forward and stated quite clearly that he was innocent.I made it VERY clear that Virginia Rappe was welcome to come forward also if she felt the urge and the 'connection' brought forward nothing more. I saw Arbuckle as if I were atop a streetlight and he below looking up.He came from a decent sized house onto a small grassed front garden and seemed to be very much alone and quite sad. Just an another example,I was also learning(in the physical sense) more about the Native American actor/conservationist Floyd 'Red Crow' Westerman and felt unhappy to find he reached out to the IRA at one point and that people may not see him in his true light as a result and merely judge him as some kind of mindless rebel-opposite to how I felt he truely was. Again I tried the aforementioned procedure and Red Crow himself pretty much instantly came forth and explained that it was because he was aware his life was coming to an end here and he was deeply disappointed that he was not going to be in his body on Earth to witness the betterment of the Native American peoples and felt the reflection on himself that he hadn't done enough and could have done more for that cause. Amazing this life isn't it. Not as amazing as Heaven appears to be though! ☮💚🖖everything&everyone😊
@@jenniferwhitewolf3784 It's hard to know what actually happened. I don't think Arbuckle's weight had anything to do with Virginia's death. She could have fallen and ruptured her bladder. Or had been in a car accident. Everyone at the party had been drinking so it's hard to say what really happened to poor Virginia.
The sickening detail of him opening the door wearing her hat at a jaunty angle while she was writhing on the bed in agony, dying ... dear heaven. It says it all. “If I play the fool, everyone will ignore the facts”. After 100 years, I’m so pleased this is on TH-cam for everyone to see - to put the record straight for the discredited, accused Virginia. Another wonderfully told story - albeit with such sad content.
@@TheyGotAwayWithMurder I understand your apprehension, however, your well researched and objectively critical essays consistently give equal measure and respect to both parties. In doing so, you make it childsplay to piece together a realistic sequence of events. As always Mark, thank you for your extraordinary work and thank you for you!
Another great recording! I wanted to especially thank you for the detail of updating amounts of money to their current-day value. It's a fantastic touch -it makes me crazy when authors don't do this. Thanks for this excellent work.
My father was a historian. I miss him deeply. Back in December of 1980, my father, mother and I went to San Francisco for vacation. We stayed at the historical St. Francis Hotel. One day, after we had returned from our trip to Carmel, my father told me this story. I was fascinated. You are gifted just like my father was. You both made these stories come to life. Well done! 😊
Mr. Maguire, why do you labor so after these stories? Seems you have superior talent which supercedes any work on TH-cam within the same genre. So it begs the question, why not stage in NY, films in Hollywood or voice over radio for mystery stories such as Mystery Theater, remember that? You are a star on TH-cam minus the accolades of an Theater World Award winner, or a Tony... but it most definitely could be you
I always get excited when I get the notification that you have uploaded a new video! I enjoy them so much,and savior every moment I'm watching! Very fine work my friend!
If even the better part of what is available on the Internet were half so well- researched, presented in such dignified form, and narrated so eloquently, this would be a better world. I enjoy immensely every one of your presentations.
@@raydavison4288 That's misleading. After not working for several years, his career mainly consisted of directing short films under a pseudonym until his early death.
It makes me queasy, how many people are supporting Arbuckle in the comments and denigrating his victim. Plus ca change. Meanwhile, your analysis of those events seems very insightful too me.
Arbuckle’s trail was a forerunner to the O.J. Simpson trial. People believed their carefully crafted public image and smart lawyers who besmirch and sully the reputation of the victims. He was guilty as they come. I have read several accounts of the case and you, dear Mr. Maguire, presented new information. As usual your outstanding presentation and excellent skills are greatly enjoyed and appreciated.🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗
I have read a lot about it too and what trips me up is the witnesses saying they could hear Virginia, over the music, over the crowd that had gathered who were heavily drinking, and from the opposite side of the suite. Also, the woman on the jury who was connected to the prosecutor and Delmont there who claimed to be a witness to the rape itself and yet later it came out she was a blackmailer and nothing she could say could be held as truth. Those small but very important facts make me question his guilt.
Virginia was a professional blackmailer. She and girl friend did the rape scam many times. She was released from hospital 12 hours before supposed event for cirrhosis of the liver. Then she drank heavily at party. She didn’t deserve to die but she was scammer.
@@rodwinning9186 Indeed. Her past and lies caught up with her. Lies about rape has ruined many men's lives. That's not cute and it's not right. You live by the con...you die by the con. Many men and women do.
He certainly was guilty, but sadly like many 'famous' figures similarly charged 'got away with murder'. Though I believe his career faded after the trial, and he never regained his previous standing.
I'm from the San Francsico area and read about this case when I was young, as my mom had books about it. It was always the back alley abortion story, but this makes me rethink it. She wasn't just a mindless young starlet. She was a 30 year old woman with past careers, had been a fashion designer. The fact that her fiance is buried next to her speaks volumes to me. I think now he was responsible, and her character later assassinated. If this is true, RIP Virginia. Well done.
Many thanks, Jo - and for being receptive to new research: it can be very hard for most people to overturn the dogged determination of a century's persistent myth-making.
The fact that she died as a result of 'a great weight upon her'... whatever means that was, means that violence was used to hold her down for assault. The bruising, especially the black eye proves she was hit. The various bruises on her legs prove she was held violently as she struggled. I agree with the 7 points and always have believed he was guilty and 'got away with murder' yet in some ways he lost, too. He should have been jailed but he didnt get away scot free... the one thing that always bot😢hered me was her reputation being shredded... and am glad to know her fiance stood his ground and stuck by her even in death. That part was news to me.
Thank you again for an excellently presented case. How sad for the victim to be murdered again in the court room and newspapers with such vile innuendos about her private life. May she finally rest in peace. 🌹
Kind of tells you how from the start of making motion pictures, the people involved in that industry might have been well paid and lived lives much better than the average person. They really weren't any better people. Same holds true till this day.
I remember back in the mid 1970s this was still being talked about when I was in Junior School. The Bottle story had been part of it then. I feel sure it was a story in the newspaper around then.
This is one of the best historical accounts I’ve seen on TH-cam. Really good , interesting narration and many details I never knew. I’d heard about this incident but never knew how successful and talented Virginia Rappe was in her own right: actress, model, successful fashion designer. She certainly didn’t need Arbuckle for her career; she was doing fine. This was probably a going to be a decadent, fun Hollywood party and “everyone “ would be there...She may have regarded him as an affectionate buddy, but that was about it, I imagine. He was definitely guilty of manslaughter, I think. Acquitted or not, his career as a star was cut short, which it seems like he deserved.
I was starting to get withdrawal symptoms waiting for your next investigation, just in time it comes along and has sated my needs for another month. 😺 Thank you for another great informative video, wonderful job as usual.
A number of people have asked if they can help support my channel - I don't have any adverts on my channel (and don't intend to) but if anyone wishes to help defray the expenses of making these videos in some small way, they can buy me a cup of coffee! www.buymeacoffee.com/MarkJohnMaguire
William Desmond Taylor is the complement for this case, and your hypothesis on the matter, much welcome
I don't want to support a gossip spreading grifter. Hope your channel follows Arbucle's career.
@@jmp01a24 The bruises on her arms and legs?
@@DUCKSAREEVILLLLLLLL What about them?
@@DUCKSAREEVILLLLLLLL Because depressed and insane women have never ever hurt themselves for attention EVER! Right?
I love that in all of your stories you make monetary references in today’s terms. Thank you!
Thank you Mark, this was an extremely balanced and fair reporting, such as it always is from you. I particularly liked you expressing admiration for Arbuckle as a motion picture innovator.
I was quite stunned by the details of the crime, because the only versions I’d ever read were very PG rated. The one I most remember is that Arbuckle accidentally smothered her(or maybe caused the bladder rupture) simply because of his bulk, and that the trial(s) and subsequent loss of his positive public reputation happened because of the purity culture prevalent in the public’s image of Hollywood stars. That is, he was arrested and tried more because he had been drinking and committing adultery, not because he had an ill intent.
Off topic….Virginia really was beautiful. Often when we see images of supposedly attractive people from the past it’s hard to see the attraction, but she had a genuine, luminous beauty. That she died in such pain and that she, effectively, was blamed for her own death by the defence attorneys adds an extra layer of sadness.
Thanks again, and as always, kudos.
Thank you for this thoughtful comment, Bilinda - I agree. I think Virginia had a lot going for her - she was a talented woman. It is too much to say she was a "super-model," because of course, modelling was an entirely different thing back then, but she had developed an international career as a model from an early age; designed her own clothes and had attracted the attention of the newspapers before she went into movies. Her career as a film actress was just on the verge of carrying her to stardom. It really does seem to me to have been a sad and untimely end to a woman who had a great deal to offer.
Awesome comment, @Bilinda Law-Morley.
@@TheyGotAwayWithMurder
I had never heard about these aspects of Virginia's life. I always thought that she was a young, uncertain girl acquiescing to Arbuckle's demands hoping for a step up in her career.
Clearly that was not the case.
I look forward to these every month. Thank you again! nicely done!
I'm finding your branching out from British murders to other nations to be very compelling. I was wondering, what is your opinion on what I would deem more 'speculative murder', such as cases where there was no real obvious suspect? Would you consider tackling mysterious killings like Hinterkaifeck or do you prefer to stick to cases where there is less conjecture? However you feel I always appreciate a video whenever I see it in my inbox.
Omg. He defo got away with me murder . Ms Rappe told everyone who had hurt her . Whether she was of good or bad character . That is not the question. There was only two people in that room and one person ended up dead.
I always thought he was guilty due to locked doors, pajamas, and spontaneous bladder ruptures and bruises. Any thought it could’ve been accidental because of his size, in my opinion, were negated by his callous and entitled behavior. No one there seemed like a saint, but he was over the top.
The death of Olive Thomas is interesting, too. She was a beautiful star married to Jack Pickford, Mary Pickford’s brother. Olive supposedly drank most of a bottle of bichloride of mercury in alcohol…by mistake, it was said. It had been prescribed for Jack’s syphilis.
Fatty Arbuckle - some of my late relatives in Aberdare, South Wales, remembered when he lodged with a family they knew, when he was on tour early in his career. . “ He needed two chairs”. ( armless chairs). Apparently, he was polite and pretty quiet but the women in the family didn’t feel at ease with him - certainly not due to his weight, or because he was in showbusiness. He didn’t say or do anything amiss but he stared …a lot. That’s not unusual and might indicate nothing but was a contrast to local chat about Stan Laurel and others, who no one, had been averse to. By the way, people on tour back then used to stay overnight with families in each area, because it was cheaper than staying in hotels.
I find it astounding, that some stars in Hollywood ( and in Bollywood in Mumbai, India), were and are often protected from being convicted of crimes due to - money..both the making of it and potential losses. Reporting on past and current crimes helps the public to understand the difference between reality and deliberate illusion. Thank you, for the excellent, video.
My dad spoke of him, once, as he had me change the channel. Said Arbuckle was the lowest form of humanity. I was too young to be told why in the early 60's, but I could tell it was something awful.
It is good to know that many did not believe him.
I think he took advantage of her .. got her drunk and Raped her... Him and his friends were a bunch of predators 🤬😡
My Mom told me the same thing......except I was older, and she said it was sexual, and I immediately knew she meant “rape”.
I’ve never truly made up my mind if he was totally to blame or not. I think because of his weight, she had a “bursted bladder” (maybe) , so they put two and two together and got six! 🙄
I know they were nuts, nuts, nuts.....but there are several things that can burst a bladder (if she hadn’t urinated for a while, esp after lots of alcohol)........of course, she wasn’t wearing a seat belt, so that’s one cause gone! 🤭
He took a terrible hit on his movie payouts.......never was the same after that. HOW STUPID! No one thinks when they drinks!
🕊💕🙏💜✝️✡️🙋♀️🌹
Wise dad!
I believe he's innocent
Finally a proper look into this case! I remember briefly researching this many years ago, and feeling Arbuckle had been wrongly accused. That was before the autopsy pictures had been released... those awful bruises. I don't know how anyone who sees those could believe that some form of assault did not occur.
Thanks Barbara - it is a case which has been bedevilled with misinformation over the years.
@@TheyGotAwayWithMurder SO true.
I did not even think of this until you mentioned the bruises , It takes a day or more for those deep dark bruises to appear , With Her death so quickly they would not have had time to form ! Blood would have pooled into lower parts of Her body !
@@keithtodd8631 she lived for three days after the assault. Plenty of times for bruises.
@@marykuettner752 argument that night , loud fight that night , found drowned that morning , any injuries received that night would Not show as bruises ! Any bruises would be from older injuries ! She was a victim of much abuse over a long period of time ! This poor Lady was murdered !
I was just thinking about you yesterday. What a joy to see this. 😊
Thank you, Barbara. :)
The first to place a comment. Have not viewed it as of yet. But, if this is to follow the high standards of narration as previous essays, this will be viewed “many” times!! Thank you MJM. BTW the book is a wonderful page-turner with lovely illustrations 😊
Thank you, Peter - I am delighted you liked the book! :)
@@TheyGotAwayWithMurder They book is fantastic, well written. Is there another in the pipeline? I hope so! x
@@Glamrockqueen Thank you - I am so pleased you liked it! Yes, another book is well underway. :)
@@TheyGotAwayWithMurder Yayyyyyyyy!!! Please let us all know as soon as it's available please xx
@@Glamrockqueen what book?
I was very happy to see that there's a new video from you! These are so informative and professionally done that you should actually be on TV. 😊 I've read about this case years ago and I remember thinking then how disgustingly the whole story was told: the most important thing here is not that a man lost his career but that a woman lost her life.
I agree with you - yes indeed. A major motivation for me in covering this case, was the huge injustice that was done to Virginia Rappe, who is (almost without exception) portrayed as a promiscuous, talentless, drunk, who was prone to bladder infections, had endless abortions etc etc. None of this is true - it was initiated by Arbuckle's attorneys and has grown and been expanded ever since by numerous writers who have sought to defend Arbuckle.
Your videos are some of the best on TH-cam! Your interest in the subjects, your research, and the thoroughness of your presentation of all the facts are evident. I have watched many of your videos multiple times because of the excellent quality.
This is exceptionally well-done and the case analysis hard to refute. I hope you will be releasing a book on this case. I look forward to your take on other high-profile cases about powerful figures and their alleged crimes.
You always do these so well!
Yet again another wonderful instalment of your work. I really appreciate all the time and research you do to produce these videos and historical accounts of past crimes. Thank you. I had heard of this story but never knew the details. I’ve actually stayed in that hotel many times and it has real history due to the earthquake and subsequent fires in San Fran and this unsettling crime. The rooms had high ceilings, large doorways and you could sense the history in the walls and foyer. Thank you for sharing. I’m a loyal fan, it’s hard not to be!!!
Interesting to read your comment ♥️👍🏼
You welcome
Thank you for such a great analysis of the evidence. Indeed, people’s thoughts on such matters have changed, unfortunately, many in Hollywood have not.
Thanks Theresa - yes, that was my takeaway: so little has changed over the 100 years since this case!
My impressions from the little I'd read online years ago were that Arbuckle had been taken down by media senasationalism and that it had just been a tragic accident. The info presented here shines a totally different light on the Arbuckle controversy. Great video thanks.
yeah, i read and watched some documentaries who explained very clearly why most probably he was innocent in her death.
Well, that’s the media for you. She had bruises all over her body as if she had been roughly handled.
@@combatduckie I believe he was
Oh my goodness, I was have withdrawal symptoms, I was binge watching your older stuff. Great your back, it’s nice to see your take on this Hollywood tale you did it justice, great.
Thank you, that's nice to know!
Thank you. Excellent work, as always. I enjoyed this thoroughly.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Prior to viewing this excellent piece of reporting, I had only read articles that portrayed Arbuckle as an innocent man who was a victim of public backlash against the excesses of 1920's Hollywood. Your video provided some facts that those articles had conveniently overlooked. For example, I had no idea that Arbuckle changed his version of events several times, and that autopsy results clearly indicated rape . Thanks for yet another fascinating yet balanced look at a famous murder case.
I remember Arbuckle being portrayed as innocent. Rapper was portrayed as promiscuous and I remember one book claimed she had venereal disease.
This isn't the first case to blame the victim for the crime.
❤️ back at you
@@karenklehm1251 thank you! Needed that today....😊
"He was a big star, you don't question a big star". How true. Those words made me think of Jimmy Savile.
Another interesting topic and always excellent narration! I've said it before, but this is the best podcast in my opinion. I look forward to each one, as they are so descriptive with no ridiculous, annoying background music save for the intro which sets up the story perfectly. Bravo!
Thank you, Terri!
You're so welcome! Keep em coming! ❤
Glad to see you back with another fascinating video. Appreciate your work!
I am a day late!! So glad you post another amazing story made my day! The Jazz age always looked fun but defiantly had its dark side. Cannot wait till your next post :)
Glad you enjoyed it! Thank you, Toni!
@@TheyGotAwayWithMurder I like the old Hollywood mysteries! I’ve always wonder what happened to Peg Entwistle if she jumped off the sign or was murdered.
What a horrible way to die. Many won't like my opinion, but he hasn't gotten away with it. He has now met his maker.
Harvey Weinstein of early 1900,s. This has been going on since Hollywood began.
Hollywood?
Are you kidding me?
This has been going on since the first time a woman was raped - or otherwise forced to comply by people in power!
So why did those women go alone to Weinstein'a hotel bedroom at 3 AM? To solve calculus problems? Most importantly why did they go back to Weinstein, if that bad he was to them?
Casting couch isn't new...😎
@@GodisMyNo1 Solve calculus problems.... 😂
I love your insight, narration, mic technique, animation and drawings. Brilliant! Subbed!
Thank you very much!
I ABSOLUTELY LOVE THIS CHANNEL !! THANK YOU SO MUCH !! From Texas, U.S.A.
This is one my mother used to speak about, she used to warn me about going to parties because of what happened to this girl, something about it really horrified her and she had seen her next door neighbour decapitated by a door during the bombing of Aberdeen in the war so it took a bit to freak her out. This did and I can't wait to hear why.
The truth is, if he had not been a star a man like him would never had been looked at twice by most of these women. It is such a waste that those that carry such weight and influence use it for such bad things when they could use it to change the world for the better. Also, too bad we put them up on such a pedestal that we try to emulate them instead of finding someone in our own lives that are much better . Love the way you tell a story..thank you.
Love your research, and delivery!
Thank you, John!
Such a brilliant analysis of this well known story. Only issue I have is I have to play twice ! Because your fabulous voice literally sends this old gal off to sleep. You ought to do another channel helping people go to sleep. Brilliantly done, so much interesting Details and facts I never knew. Many thanks 🙏
Thank you kindly!
Me too!😂
ME THREE! I often listen to the Lord Lucan episode when I can't sleep.
@@TheyGotAwayWithMurder I really appreciate! Bravo 👏🏻
Another interesting video, thank you. And special praise to your drawings. I truly enjoy your extra touch. Texas
Wealthy, powerful, seedy men preying on the young, impressionable starlets that gather round with stars in their eyes. The taudry story of Hollywood
As a youngster, my parents and grandparents spoke of this in cautious tones. I had no idea of the full story Thank you for the balanced close examination.
Many thanks to you, Terri!
I did not know Virginia Rappe had such a successful career and presence.That is not how her story is usually told. She is usually portrayed differently, and very unflatteringly.
Victim blaming - and/or typical misogyny, which unfortunately is still a thing!
You handled this disgusting subject matter with great sensitivity. Thank you.
Thank you Mark. Excellent work. I'd love to hear more old Hollywood scandals. Lord knows there are plenty. Stay safe & Happy Holidays. 🌺
Hello Mark, I have been an enormous fan of your channel for some time now. I await your new episodes eagerly and l “like” them even before watching them because your work is amazing and you never disappoint. I have also purchased your book and am looking forward to learning about Madame X, though I will miss your soothing voice reading it to me! I am big fan of silent film and, I must admit, this episode has left me rather shocked. I have always bought the version that Roscoe was innocent, that Virginia’s bladder was ruptured during an illegal abortion and that William Randolph Hearst launched a media campaign against Roscoe to sell more copies of his newspapers. Your analysis of this case is certainly food for thought! Thank you once again for another marvellous episode. Although it is not in line with the theme of your channel, I would love to one day hear your analysis of the 1910 disappearance of Dorothy Arnold ❤️
Thank you, Francy - I am delighted you have bought my book and hope you will like it! I know there is a huge wall of literature which states with apparent authority that Virginia had an abortion/had 5 abortions before she was 16/was pregnant - and so on ad infinitum. But these have their foundation in newspaper stories (although initially Hearst was anti-Arbuckle, as the debacle continued, he switched to a more pro-Arbuckle stance). The majority of these stories have their origin in people like Adela Rogers St Johns, the hollywood journalist, who was a close friend of Arbuckle's, of men like Mack Sennett. And most especially, in the plethora of books and articles which were published after the scandal, and have sought, almost without exception, it seems, to promulgate a false thesis of the affair, which has usually involved doing a great deal to blacken Virginia Rappe's reputation.
I know of this case but never got so much details as you presented, your summary of the case was excellent, love that you included modern comparisons, it's taken a while but hopefully things have changed in the movie industry since recent events. Thank you 🤗
Debauched Hollywood Nothing has changed in a century. RIP Virginia Rappe🌹🌹
This is a whole new take on the case. One, of which, I never heard before. It forced me to ask all those questions I never thought of before. It also forced me to finally say, "Oh no ... I guess he DID do it!" I'm so sorry that she had to die under such painful and heartbreaking circumstances. I'm also sorry that his career was ended because of his inability to accept the word "no". Because of his need to commit such brutality on a woman.😩
Thank you, Rosie!
@@TheyGotAwayWithMurder Thank YOU, for your insight!
I saw your notification and yelled YES!🤣 This was such a sad case all around.
The first cold, crisp night of Autumn and a fresh new upload from They Got Away With Murder- a perfect pairing! 🎃 🍁🔥
Full of info I hadn't heard or read before. Very thorough researching and excellent presentation! Best on TH-cam! Thank you for all the work and research on this channel.
A new installment!! Really looking forward to what you have to say about this case, just have to get the children off to bed first.
This has haunted me. It’s been 100 years, yet this remains relevant.
Still happens to this day. Rich people, take advantage of others for their sexual desires. Epstein took it to a new level. Someone has taken his place.
Been awaiting another video and what a interesting one! Thanks Peace
I look so forward to all of your topics but this one is FANTASIC!!! Absolutely riveting and somewhere a sad Virginia may be smiling instead in her afterlife!!
Appreciate the effort and the respect shown towards Rappe. Thanks.
I've only ever heard the 'sanitized' version of this, had no idea of the details. Good video!
In one of the (autopsy ?) photos it looks like she has a black eye. With all the other bruises on her it definitely looks like he killed her, doesn’t matter if it wasn’t intentional. Sad for her to be dragged through the mud and blamed for dying.
I thought that too…I googled the picture & it does look like she was hit in the eye 😢
I am loving you ( Mr. Mark) doing case on Celebs back in the early 1900's!!!! ❤️❤️❤️ I really enjoyed every second of this video ❤️ Thank you 😌....
Another excellent episode! I do so look forward to a new one each month - I hope you never run out of cases!
Your etchings are Amazing!
Thank you so much, Renee!
I wondered if you would do this one.
What a wonderful voice the host has for these types of videos. Makes me think of the great Boris Karloff narrating "How the Grinch Stole Christmas 🎄 😳 "
Joseph Trovato.. The :"Grinch" movie I have has one of my favs.... Anthony Hopkins... to narrates this great story. Boris Karloff would add a cheeky scary tone, delightful ..
I wasnt notified of this. Im getting a late start but better late that never. I love this story and cant wait to hear your version.
Oh, you’ve made my Saturday perfect! Thank you so much.
He literally answered the door in her hat after locking her inside that room with him alone.
Mr. Maguire thank you for this month's refreshing dose of intellect, logic, reason, art and storytelling. For this old man, you provide magic and medicine for the 21st century. You make me want to carry on another month!:-) 🖖
Hahaha! Well thank you, Barry - that's good to hear, and to tell the truth, it keeps me going another month also!
@@TheyGotAwayWithMurder 👍🙏🙂🖖
Character assassination is often inflicted on such victims. Sad
Best uploads on TH-cam ! Thank you.
Wow, thanks, Micky!
This is the most well rounded, thoughtfully done consideration of what happened I’ve ever seen. As always, you’ve done an exceptional job researching, writing and presenting this.
Thank you very much!
I've always believed the accepted narrative that Arbuckle was innocent. No more. Thank you for this thorough, thoughtful coverage of this case. Although Virginia Rappé didn't get justice back in 1921, at least a century later we can acknowledge the truth of what happeed to her.
I could only go by what evidence was available and made public, and by how the story was told. Mark has pulled all the evidence together in a coherent, thoughtful narrative and included many things that weren't always common knowledge.
@@lauraorem1276 Yes, I agree. I've never researched it but what I've seen about the case always suggested that it was moral hysteria of the time that got Arbuckle charged and that he was innocent. Normally, this story is told as a footnote to the movie industry morality code that was established in response to the public shock over the debauchery of Hollywood.
I always knew fatty was guilty
How could an Autopsy find 'no evidence of violence' when (Mrs.)Rappe has lots of bruising on her arms and legs-irrefutable proof in photos?!?
This is murky to the max imho and proof again that money IS the route of all evil.
However when I first had knowledge of this case,6 months or so ago,after buying an Arbuckle DVD(I'd known of him for years prior),I decided to open myself up spriritually and asked for the truth of this matter.Almost immediately Arbuckle himself came forward and stated quite clearly that he was innocent.I made it VERY clear that Virginia Rappe was welcome to come forward also if she felt the urge and the 'connection' brought forward nothing more.
I saw Arbuckle as if I were atop a streetlight and he below looking up.He came from a decent sized house onto a small grassed front garden and seemed to be very much alone and quite sad.
Just an another example,I was also learning(in the physical sense) more about the Native American actor/conservationist Floyd 'Red Crow' Westerman and felt unhappy to find he reached out to the IRA at one point and that people may not see him in his true light as a result and merely judge him as some kind of mindless rebel-opposite to how I felt he truely was.
Again I tried the aforementioned procedure and Red Crow himself pretty much instantly came forth and explained that it was because he was aware his life was coming to an end here and he was deeply disappointed that he was not going to be in his body on Earth to witness the betterment of the Native American peoples and felt the reflection on himself that he hadn't done enough and could have done more for that cause.
Amazing this life isn't it.
Not as amazing as Heaven appears to be though!
☮💚🖖everything&everyone😊
@@jenniferwhitewolf3784 It's hard to know what actually happened. I don't think Arbuckle's weight had anything to do with Virginia's death. She could have fallen and ruptured her bladder. Or had been in a car accident. Everyone at the party had been drinking so it's hard to say what really happened to poor Virginia.
Wonderful, sensitive and beautifully researched, Mark; thank you.
Thank you, MsDormy!
The sickening detail of him opening the door wearing her hat at a jaunty angle while she was writhing on the bed in agony, dying ... dear heaven. It says it all. “If I play the fool, everyone will ignore the facts”. After 100 years, I’m so pleased this is on TH-cam for everyone to see - to put the record straight for the discredited, accused Virginia. Another wonderfully told story - albeit with such sad content.
Many thanks - I believe it was necessary, although I had long delayed it due to its controversial nature.
@@TheyGotAwayWithMurder I understand your apprehension, however, your well researched and objectively critical essays consistently give equal measure and respect to both parties. In doing so, you make it childsplay to piece together a realistic sequence of events. As always Mark, thank you for your extraordinary work and thank you for you!
As always, Thank you sir for making and sharing these with us on youtube. Another interesting true crime story for us to consume.
Another great recording! I wanted to especially thank you for the detail of updating amounts of money to their current-day value. It's a fantastic touch -it makes me crazy when authors don't do this. Thanks for this excellent work.
Yes me too. Amazing.
Excellent documentary. The evidence is so strong. The poor woman was vilified- she was the victim of a horrific event. May she rest in peace.
he was framed
My father was a historian. I miss him deeply. Back in December of 1980, my father, mother and I went to San Francisco for vacation. We stayed at the historical St. Francis Hotel. One day, after we had returned from our trip to Carmel, my father told me this story. I was fascinated. You are gifted just like my father was. You both made these stories come to life. Well done! 😊
That's high praise - thank you!
Mr. Maguire, why do you labor so after these stories? Seems you have superior talent which supercedes any work on TH-cam within the same genre. So it begs the question, why not stage in NY, films in Hollywood or voice over radio for mystery stories such as Mystery Theater, remember that? You are a star on TH-cam minus the accolades of an Theater World Award winner, or a Tony... but it most definitely could be you
Don’t give him any ideas! He’s our treasure on TH-cam.
@@BananaHammock2001 😂 yes he most certainly is a treasure 😘
I always get excited when I get the notification that you have uploaded a new video! I enjoy them so much,and savior every moment I'm watching! Very fine work my friend!
I'm so glad - thanks Sandi!
If even the better part of what is available on the Internet were half so well- researched, presented in such dignified form, and narrated so eloquently, this would be a better world. I enjoy immensely every one of your presentations.
Arbuckle"s career was over because of his foul deed. The public was his true jury.
Yes...but no. Fatty's career was only dealt a temporary setback.
@@raydavison4288 That's misleading. After not working for several years, his career mainly consisted of directing short films under a pseudonym until his early death.
@@tillitsdone: You're right on that. I got lazy.
It makes me queasy, how many people are supporting Arbuckle in the comments and denigrating his victim. Plus ca change. Meanwhile, your analysis of those events seems very insightful too me.
Thank you, Vera.
Arbuckle’s trail was a forerunner to the O.J. Simpson trial. People believed their carefully crafted public image and smart lawyers who besmirch and sully the reputation of the victims. He was guilty as they come. I have read several accounts of the case and you, dear Mr. Maguire, presented new information. As usual your outstanding presentation and excellent skills are greatly enjoyed and appreciated.🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗
Can't say it any better that you have, @Kathryn Mast! 😀
You have said it all right there.
I have read a lot about it too and what trips me up is the witnesses saying they could hear Virginia, over the music, over the crowd that had gathered who were heavily drinking, and from the opposite side of the suite. Also, the woman on the jury who was connected to the prosecutor and Delmont there who claimed to be a witness to the rape itself and yet later it came out she was a blackmailer and nothing she could say could be held as truth.
Those small but very important facts make me question his guilt.
Virginia was a professional blackmailer. She and girl friend did the rape scam many times. She was released from hospital 12 hours before supposed event for cirrhosis of the liver. Then she drank heavily at party. She didn’t deserve to die but she was scammer.
@@rodwinning9186 Indeed. Her past and lies caught up with her. Lies about rape has ruined many men's lives. That's not cute and it's not right. You live by the con...you die by the con. Many men and women do.
Thank you ever so much for another podcast!! Love you, from a Florida girl!!
Thank you for your insights and for the depth of your research. You have a wonderful voice.
He certainly was guilty, but sadly like many 'famous' figures similarly charged 'got away with murder'. Though I believe his career faded after the trial, and he never regained his previous standing.
I'm from the San Francsico area and read about this case when I was young, as my mom had books about it. It was always the back alley abortion story, but this makes me rethink it. She wasn't just a mindless young starlet. She was a 30 year old woman with past careers, had been a fashion designer. The fact that her fiance is buried next to her speaks volumes to me. I think now he was responsible, and her character later assassinated. If this is true, RIP Virginia. Well done.
Many thanks, Jo - and for being receptive to new research: it can be very hard for most people to overturn the dogged determination of a century's persistent myth-making.
@@TheyGotAwayWithMurder Wow! I so admire and enjoy your painstaking eloquence.
The fact that she died as a result of 'a great weight upon her'... whatever means that was, means that violence was used to hold her down for assault. The bruising, especially the black eye proves she was hit. The various bruises on her legs prove she was held violently as she struggled. I agree with the 7 points and always have believed he was guilty and 'got away with murder' yet in some ways he lost, too. He should have been jailed but he didnt get away scot free... the one thing that always bot😢hered me was her reputation being shredded... and am glad to know her fiance stood his ground and stuck by her even in death. That part was news to me.
Thank you again for an excellently presented case. How sad for the victim to be murdered again in the court room and newspapers with such vile innuendos about her private life. May she finally rest in peace. 🌹
OMG was just thinking and a hoping 'They Got Away With Murder' would be posting soon. My wish has been fulfilled. THANK YOU X
Perfect ! Been waiting for this one. Maybe William Desmond Taylor is next !
Yes! Please! I’ve always been fascinated by it. That was my grandmother’s era and she had been a fan of all the women involved.
Oh yes, yes, yes, yes!🤓
Kind of tells you how from the start of making motion pictures, the people involved in that industry might have been well paid and lived lives much better than the average person. They really weren't any better people. Same holds true till this day.
Another good one Mark! So happy to see this tonight, I listen to you every night to sleep and all night while I sleep until morning!
What? This has been up for 5 hours and I just stumble upon it now!
Thanks for another great show I have watched them all so far and can’t wait until a new one arrives very well done and learning a lot!!!! ♥️
Glad you like them! Thanks!
I remember back in the mid 1970s this was still being talked about when I was in Junior School. The Bottle story had been part of it then. I feel sure it was a story in the newspaper around then.
Thank you for sharing! So sad that justice was not served! Women are still sadly being treated in this despicable way by men who feel entitled!
I have never seen a Fatty Arbuckle film, nor have I ever seen one advertised or promoted. His career DIED.
I do enjoy your videos, thank you for all the hard work it must take to bring these to us.
You are welcome - and thank you, Linda.
A very fair and measured presentation of this well known case helping to clarify the story very well.
This is one of the best historical accounts I’ve seen on TH-cam. Really good , interesting narration and many details I never knew. I’d heard about this incident but never knew how successful and talented Virginia Rappe was in her own right: actress, model, successful fashion designer. She certainly didn’t need Arbuckle for her career; she was doing fine. This was probably a going to be a decadent, fun Hollywood party and “everyone “ would be there...She may have regarded him as an affectionate buddy, but that was about it, I imagine.
He was definitely guilty of manslaughter, I think. Acquitted or not, his career as a star was cut short, which it seems like he deserved.
Thank you very much, Lesli!
Fascinating and well-presented case with striking modern parallels. Thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it! Thank you!
Sick! What nasty men they all were..! What psychological evil. POWER CORRUPTS.
I was starting to get withdrawal symptoms waiting for your next investigation, just in time it comes along and has sated my needs for another month. 😺 Thank you for another great informative video, wonderful job as usual.