One of the key feature of teh class is the high level of automation and small crew size. This is particularly important since Japan has the oldest population in teh world, reducing its manpower power pool, and the JSDF (as a whole) would have difficulty competing for manpower with the civilian sector. The PLAN would do well to emulate this. While not presently having the oldest population, China has the fastest aging population and will be older than Japan in a few decades. This consideration gets very little attention, but is becoming more and more critical as industrialized nations age.
The Mogami class is as the narrator states...a Frigate. Frigates have specific duties as the narrator states and are not usually thought of as Air Defense platforms. The other duty is to act as a "Scout" and to perform "Pickett Duty for the fleet.
Frigate's role depends per navy wherein some European frigates main role is anti-air warfare but on JMSDF's case, their frigates (former DEs) and most of destroyers (except the Akizuki class and Japanese AEGIS ships) were tasked for ASW duties.
@Brian Foley The french navy used several frigates as aaw units with other units of the same class asw and GP. .. thus getting good value and servicability.. quantity is often better than too few hulls
You hit nail on the head. Too vulnerable to F35 equipped with Harpoons. However, those pesky North Korean subs has met their shinigami. Japan must protect their Aegis detroyers. North Korea will certainly use wolfpack type attack, have 5 or more subs because in the war, quantities do matter.
It depends: the Italian PPA, when properly equipped could be considered an equal or superior ship compared to the mogami due to a larger size and better armament, and yet it is considered an high sea patrol ship. On the other side of the spectrum, an Horizon class like the Forbin in France is considered to be a Frigate, despite being a large destroyer. Someone could argue that A FREM frigate is as large and capable as a Perry class destroyer, while a Zumwalt is still considered a destroyer despite its cruiser size and displacement. In the end, nobody knows what a frigate is today, transforming it in a sorto of trashcan category where everything not overly large can end, or not, without rules.
I think a suitable VLS load-out would be 8 ASROC and 32 quad-packed ESSM Block II SAMs. The 27 nm range of ESSM fits the X band AESA radar very well. As for the lack of a VSR, you mention CEC when in the company of the Aegis ships. But, in addition, I think that when the Mogamis are steaming independently on an area ASW patrol, they will use stealth and EMCON to disappear. They would use their panoramic EO/IRST as well as ESM to sense the environment. A powerful VSR hurts you in ASW. Submariners say it is easy to spot SPY-1 ships with the ESM receivers in their periscopes.
24 x ESSM blk 2, 6 x ASROC and 16 x Patriot Cap 3 (currently being trailed to be quad fitted into the strike length Mk 41 VLS) all up 16 VLS. There is talk about this ship can be upgraded with extra VLS counts and this being mentioned in the bid offered to Australia.
It seems the Mogami class is a good coastal defense warship as long as it stays under land based air umbrella or supported by an Aegis destroyer. The 16 cell Mk41 magazine if quad loaded with the RIM-162 Evolved Sea Sparrow Missiles along with its RIM-116 SeaRAM missile launcher would give it a fair self defense anti-air missile system. If the Japanese Type 03 Chu medium-range surface-to-air missiles can be quad packed I haven't heard. For midrange submarine attack the Type 07 anti-submarine missiles may be loaded in the Mk41 or the SH-60K and L Seahawk anti-submarine helicopters could be used along with land based air. When looking at an individual warship it should be viewed as part of a integrated fleet during actual combat. The Mogami class in its final configuration will be a capable component vessel in the Japanese naval force.
The quality of the content on this chance is amazing. I hate half-assed videos that simp about this or that, especially with weeb shit. Thank you for bringing some reality into the conversation.
Your discussion is generally correct, but you are a bit wrong about the most important mission of the Mogami type. Mogami's most important mission is not anti-submarine warfare, but mine clearance. You refer to the mine clearance capability as secondary, but you are wrong. This ship was built for mine warfare only. If it did not have the ability to clear mines, Japan would not need to build this ship. In a war with China over Taiwan, mine clearance is the most important element and at the same time the most dangerous mission for a ship. Why is Japan building these ships in large numbers? The answer is that mine clearance, no matter how advanced and careful the technology is, is a high-wear and tear operation, and it is impossible to fight through the world's toughest mine clearance war without a large number of ships. Why did Japan suddenly need extreme stealthiness of ships in Mogami? This is another reason for mine warfare. It is clear that China will use mines for A2AD in a Taiwan contingency, and mine clearance will be necessary even where China has air superiority. Similarly, mine laying must be done in areas where China has air superiority. Simply put, the USS Gargami must engage in mine warfare outside the air defenses of the Japanese and U.S. fleets. However, larger ships for greater air defense capability are detrimental to mine warfare, and for this reason stealth was required like never before. Certainly, anti-submarine warfare is extremely important, but the large amount of equipment for anti-submarine warfare is true for all ships of the Imperial Japanese Navy, and the anti-submarine warfare equipment of the Mogami is average compared to other ships of the Imperial Japanese Navy. None of the other ships, however, have a high mine clearance capability. (This is true of the main destroyers of any navy.) Among the ships of the Imperial Japanese Navy, mine clearance is something that almost only the Mogami can do. (This is true of the mainstay destroyers of any navy.) The IJN's fleet rarely ventures into mined waters because it is too dangerous for other, more expensive vessels to do so. The previous class of Mogami's vessels were also designed to clear mines. あなたの考察は概ね正しいが、もがみ型の最重要ミッションについて少し間違えている。 もがみの最重要任務は対潜水艦戦ではなく機雷除去です。あなたは機雷除去能力を副次的と言っているが、間違いです。この船は機雷戦のためだけに作られた船です。機雷除去能力がもしないのなら日本はこの船を作る必要がありません。 台湾をめぐる中国との戦争では機雷除去は最も重要な要素であり同時に最も船が危険にさらされる任務です。 なぜ日本がこの船を大量に建造するのか？その答えは機雷除去はどんなに技術を高めて気を付けても船の損耗が激しく、大量に船を準備しないと世界で最も過酷になる機雷除去戦を戦い抜くことは不可能だからです。 なぜ日本が突然もがみで極端に船のステルス性を必要としたのか？これも機雷戦が理由です。 台湾有事で中国はA2ADのために機雷を用いることは明らかであり、機雷除去は中国が航空優勢を取っている場所でも必要になります。また同様に機雷敷設も中国の航空優勢海域で行う必要があります。簡単に言えば日米艦隊の防空網の外でもがみ型は機雷戦を戦わなければならないのです。 しかし防空能力を高めるために船が大型化するのは機雷戦にとって不利であり、このような理由でステルス性がかつてないほど要求されました。 確かに対潜水艦戦は極めて重要ですが、対潜水艦戦用装備が多いことは日本海軍のすべての艦艇に言えることであり、もがみの対戦装備は日本海軍の他の艦艇と比べても平均的です。 しかし他のどの船も機雷除去能力は高くありません。（これはどこの海軍の主力駆逐艦にも言えることですが） 日本海軍の船では機雷除去はほとんど、もがみにしかできないことです。というよりも機雷除去戦は他の高価な船がやるにはあまりにも危険すぎるので機雷がある海域には艦隊は進出しないというのがより正しい言い方です。もがみの前級の艦艇も機雷除去のための船でした。
If Japan wants to join the Taiwan war, the frigate would have been sunk by the Chinese missiles which it has little defense. It is suited for near coast operation and Taiwan is a little far.
I think it is a more practical LCS rather than a true Frigate. ( if LCS ever has Anti-submarine modules and Mine countermeasures module, but hey, it never seems ganna happen)
More like this is the FF(+G) that the US wanted or needed the LCS to become but couldn't the last few years which is why the USN ended up going with their Euro pocket-Aegis destroy FFGs. I dont see how this Ideal small surface combatant for countering the red army conscript spam of the PLAN's small surface combatants. They are equally lightly armed but considered multi role. With its VLS shooting quad packs of ESSM and super advanced ECM suite, seems pretty multi role to me and with its low radar cross section seems like the perfect match for the PLAN mosquito navy.
@@logicbomb5511 It is essential to know that Mogami Classes are built for the Mine Warfare Force of Japan, not the Fleet Escort Force. It serves a role more like a corvette in European countries (this is one reason why those mk41 are not installed at the beginning). If you follow its development, in the beginning, it is basically a Japanese LCS (maximum speed is more than 40knot ). I know it is tough to classify a ship type these days, but Frigate is Second rate or third-rate ship for significant navy power (like us and china) or a First rate ship in European countries, Russia, and Australia. Those first-rate frigates are much more well-armed compared to 054a or FFGX, like 127mm gun for land support and very capable anti-air capability, etc.Because they need to fill the role of 052d and Arleigh Burke-class. FFGX, like 054a, is a modern Perry class type of ship, cheap and all-around to serve as a supporting role for the blue water navy. It is easy to see the difference in roles of FFGX compared to Mogami Classes on air radar, more long-range radar( like s-band) compared to x-band on Mogami Classes. Also important to know that, like the Korean navy, JMSDF needs to counter the North Korean threat( it may sound crazy to some people, but it is a real problem), and the Daegu class and Mogami Classes both have large mk45 guns rather than normally cheaper, and all-round OTO Melara for frigates is for that reason.
japan's navy is in full swing . every time i check their shipyards from google earth i notice many ships being built or maintained . same goes to china but not same for the old powers usa russia france uk
The Mogami class has also a AAW variant with 64 VLS and new LRASM. (I'm not really sure if it was new LRASM I saw in the video since it was in Japanese or just the same AShM with early variant just using a VLS.)
@@IsraelMilitaryChannel you do you man. I don't know if you have poor reading comprehension or just outright denying facts that you think as a lie. Edit: I already commented the source in the comment section, if you didn't see it.
As a convoy escort and general patrol vessel they will be fantastic. 16 cells are actually a good fitout for the operational system. I would expect 8 cells quad packed with self defence missiles and 8 asroc. the 32 missiles would be enough to defend against a assault on a convoy when working with an AEGIS destroyer.
More is better. I don't understand why Western nations continue to build ship's with low missle numbers especially when missles are cheap and numerous and as ukraine has proved poae a serious threat. Why not fit themselves out with 100+ defence missles and 30+ antiship missles?
They should add 1000 VLS cells 😂😂😂 If that is your logic, you will fail logistically and lose the war. Btw, missiles explode as well. 16 cells is enough for a frigate, maybe 32 but they already have light destroyers with 32 cells (Asahi)
@@yellomonky4272 The sheer cost of filling all the cells on a Frigate is already high. and as an escort I agree with you these are nice ships. If going into more hairy locations they will work as part of a fleet and the Japanese have multiple ships with more missile cells. I still think the RAN Hobart class at 48 cells are underarmed but thats just my opinion. The Pk of modern western SAM's is very high and that is also likely a part of the calculation. Again agree with your sentiments.
I think Mogami-class Frigate is perfect for its Purpose, we have to remember that all japan's adversaries China, Russia and North- Korea is very close to japan, Russia is within 300km, North-Korea around 500km and China about 500km( from okinawa) and thus Mogami will most of the time operate near japan will be under land based SAM's protection and thus do not required extensive Anti- air capabilities which is also due given their main role which will be ASW. I think Mogami is perfect to combat North Korea who has large(nearly 100) but obsolete submarines in the sea of japan where Anti- air and Anti- ship operations can be left to Land based SAM's and the air force. Also the mark 41 vls can quad pack ESSMs which it can carry 64 of them for air defense if required but the Air defense role will be left to destroyers and SAM or the newly proposed FFM class frigate with 32 vls. I think Mogami's strength lies in AWS capabilities along with advance autonomous sub systems and they are really easy to build which is important in war time.
I find those ships a perfectly fit for the frigate role, an ASW ship capable of patrolling western Pacific hunting subs, able to selfdefending from missile attack, treatening second line ships and land targets. The whole package at half price of a Destroyer. Per my opinion I'll prefer other 16 VLS for something like LRASM instead of 8 on desk AShM. Destroyers fullfil area defense mission with SM-6 missiles along with escort mission and all around capabilities. They are the one and only battleship nowadays!!! Eastern and western allies can build about hundred frigates to patrol seas but need a great number of Destroyers to escort aircraft carriers, amphibious ships, oilers, container carriers and bulk carriers (3/400.000 tons each about) around the world. Sometime a Frigate can be diverted to escort smaller (20/100.000 tons) commercial ships to secondary sea route, like small countries on Pacific islands. Bye Freedom everyone
Mogami is a very close concept to the French FDI: a way to have good capabilities while being affordable in numbers. The size itself limits what it can do in a fleet, due to lack of manpower and limited spaces, compared to more capable ships with double the tonnage, but also double the cost. If the 350M$ is accurate, you can buy two of these ships compared to a 600M€ Bergamini class, which is not a bad thing, if you plan your fleet to stay inside you exclusive economic zone anyway and you have a lot of islands to protect. Where Mogami starts to suffer is when multimission roles are required, like Disaster relief or heavy duty fleet defense, but this is a matter of a short quilt. Even a Thaon di Revell PPA displaces almost 1500 tons more then a Mogami Frigate and it sports a proper C and X band radar suite. The point, anyway, is that Japan "HAS" more capable ships, and the Mogami is intended to fill the gaps, for which is a very competent little ship. The only thing I'd change is the 127mm gun for a smaller but more flexible 76mm (or two) which would better cope with swarming attacks, but I guess the 127mm was chosen made to underline its patrol duty role. Still, as those 16 VL41 launchers will be added in future, I wouldn't be surprised to see a C radar module growing on the mast, side by side to the original X band antenna. Italy originally had similar concepts, with the PPA light (X band only) but upgrades to the Full suite (C+X) are already financed. After all, if all it takes is a couple of antennas to massively upgrade the AA capability of your ships, why not?
Are you and Weapon Detective telepathically linked?! 😂 Love the video and breakdown btw, your channel is a breath of fresh air in the TH-cam sphere of reading spec sheets ❤️
Great video! Can you make a video on Formidable Class frigate? Known as one of the most well-armed frigates for its class but not much information is available on its weaknesses.
I haven't been following the Mogami-class so am not aware of any hype, but from your video, I would agree with your assessment. They appear to be primarily designed for littoral warfare, given: the RHIBs, mine warfare capability, and torpedoes designed for shallow waters. The stealth hull also helps here. However, they should still be very capable additions to a blue water task force (TF), as: they can provide good air defence for themselves and act as an outer screen or picket for TF air defence (do you know if they are capable of CEC with the AEGIS-destroyers?); can contribute to surface action by way of 8 x SSMs; and ASW warfare through the helicopter and other weapons. Also, at around 5,500t they are large for traditional Frigates (although some modern Frigates are now around 8,000t but that's another story), which should allow them good range and sea keeping. A key point you highlight, that may influence high-end warfighting in a TF, is its limited weapons loadout.
I agree that hype is perhaps too strong of a word, but I would probably describe the prevailing narrative as uncritical. Basically there's several videos that just discuss their strengths, and seemingly treat them as multirole warships, or even only listing specs, without talking about their limitations (I'm looking at Dung Tran, just for example). One whether they have CEC with the JMSDF AEGIS destroyers, I cannot find info that it has, and I think the word I used is incorrect, because CEC is too specific. I was actually thinking if they can use targeting information provided by other assets to engage aircrafts with SAMs that have active radar guidance - these should require no target illumination. Thanks for asking about that. I agree their large size provides many advantages, which you listed. I would dare to suggest that it also provides more potential for upgrades, e.g. installing more VLS cells. Steel and hull are generally the cheapest part of any modern warship, so it makes sense to build new ships as large as you can power them, so as to future proof against the ease of modernisation later on.
@@EurasiaNaval I certainly wasn't suggesting they haven't been hyped up. That might well be true. Objective analysis is critical, and unfortunately not always found on TH-cam. My point about CEC was (perhaps incorrectly) that the Mogamis might be able to use its sensors to leverage the SAM capabilities of more capable ships, thereby adding to its utility within a TF. Good point you make about its size, which should allow for upgrades. Perhaps more VLS as you suggest as they do seem lightly equipped there. The old saying is, "steel is cheap and air is free".
OP also forgets that the Mk 41 can quad-pack ESSMs, which means that even with a 16-cell VLS the Mogami class can easily load 32 ESSMs + 8 ASROC-type missiles. This loadout would actually exceed the capabilities of the Type 054A which can only load a total of 32 VL missiles split between HHQ-16 and Yu-8 (or CY-5).
They ought to just put a C-band AESA radar on board, with GaN semiconductor technology, rather than a sole X-band. A single C-band is a good balance that is not terribly expensive to produce and power, suitable for the limited power generation of a small ship. The traditional outfit of having a dual S and X band combination is not really viable for second-line warships in the era of GaN or even GaA AESA systems, because it is expensive and power hungry, and sizable liquid cooling system will be required. So just have a single C-band - it's a much better compromise.
You say it has only 16 launch pods and that it's not much. I got a crazy idea. If there's just 19 people to operate it and it has very high levels of automation, what if, They could reload those pods from the inside and it's just not available information to the public?
The Mogami class (最上型) was a ship class of four cruisers built for the Imperial Japanese Navy (IJN) during the 1930s. They were initially classified as light cruisers under the weight and armament restrictions of the London Naval Treaty.A HIMARS cost 400 milion
In addition to patrols and anti-submarine warfare, the Mogami class will be equipped with anti-ship missiles, RAM, SAM-4, and M2 heavy machine guns and will operate as a HUK/SAG advance force and possibly be incorporated into the CSG. The Kongo, Atago, and Maya class Aegis ships are mainly responsible for missile defense, while the Asahi, Akizuki, and Murasame class destroyers are supposed to protect the Aegis ships, but they may be incorporated to reduce the burden on the Asahi, Akizuki, and Murasame types.
Not for a second would I doubt the capabilities and the quality of these ships. Nor would I question the professionalism of their crews. The Japanese Navy often berth at Pearl Harbour ( yes, ironic I know), and the US servicemen based there often comment on the sheer professionalism of Japanese Navy personnel..... Good to see these ships using a Rolls Royce turbine... You really don't want Japan as an enemy....
So even if they clearly aren't meant to act as rocket ships to space, you won't doubt for a second that they can do exactly that? You're so delusional.
What nonsense, Mogami class frigates are not for fleet defense, they have aegis for that. 16 mk 41 vls can contain upto 64 essm SAMs enough for self defense. Oh and you can do volume search with x band for self protection.
The video producers do not understand why the Mogami class was built. Advanced air defence capabilities were not required from the design stage. Low-cost frigates with a minimum set of capabilities is what was required, and the military is happy with it. Why is that? Because the Mogami class is meant to replace the ships of the minesweeping fleet and missile boat squadrons. The Mogami class replaces ships that were originally incapable of anti-aircraft combat. Instead, it is just a reinforcement of the entire navy. The entire military will have a wider range of activities, and in terms of combat, it can join the line of fire and participate in anti-submarine, electronic warfare and anti-ship combat. There is nothing bad about it. If the IJN really pursues satisfactory performance, there is no other option but ships equipped with the Aegis system or new destroyers. That is an impossible order, both organisationally and budgetarily. Simply, the current Imperial Japanese Navy is looking for numbers rather than quality of ships.
Let's just compare this to all other frigates from major naval countries. Almost all of them have integrated organic medium-range air defense capabilities and VLS systems. For a mine sweeping and ASW ship, it is not very survivable and way too expensive to justify cost vs capability. It also can't do any anti-ship combat considering that it has barely any space for missiles. The Japanese should've built a cheaper corvette to do this job. PS this frigate costs as much as a Type54A frigate, which is exponentially more capable, and only half the cost of the FREMM frigate which too is exponentially more capable (like 1 vs 25 sorts of effectiveness for both).
@@dabo5078 The Mogami class frigates were selected because they have the minimum performance requirements for the Imperial Japanese Navy. There is no need for a lower cost frigate. If we did, you would be a much stronger critic. So that idea is also a clear mistake. Above all, the Imperial Japanese Navy does not envisage surface combat ships fighting each other alone. It needs to work together with aircraft and submarines. The reason why the Navy thinks it is a good idea is because, as I commented, the current wooden minesweepers and high-speed missile boats will be replaced by the Mogami class, which will improve the organisation's war potential. There are no advanced air defence systems or anti-ship missiles in wooden boats. You can understand the significance of replacing them with the Mogami class. In addition, the role of laying mines in the open sea will be added. Therefore, the Mogami class is not a main force, but an auxiliary one. It is only a reliable partner to the main destroyers.
@@s_n_gstein4027 FIrst of all why are you calling the JMSDF the IJA (which was destroyed and disbanded in WW2). Also the problem is that this frigate is not at all cheap in both construction and maintenance compared to corvettes or "wooden boats". You don't get more capability but you still pay extra. There is very little to justify the cost for such a minute increase in capibility.
@@dabo5078 The Navy has already explained why it is adopting the Mogami class. We have explained it twice? In the current naval situation, the minesweeping fleet is overstretched and missile boats are completely useless. The existing frigates, the Abukuma class, are obsolete. Replacing those ships with the Mogami class and applying their manpower will improve the overall strength of the fleet. That is what the Navy is about. To say the costs are not balanced is just your lack of understanding about the Navy.
Could be similar to the Dutch M-frigate replacement. An initial design for that had almost the exact same dimensions, and I think also a 16 cell Mk41 VLS. Since then the design was changed to be smaller, but that has now turned out to be too small. Given that the roles are similar it sort of makes sense for them to be about the same size(?)
It's not meant to operate alone. I imagine its antiair capability is primarily for self defense. With a 5 inch gun, this could easily be part of an assault fleet. Other vessels would be tasked with air defense, while this can fend for itself, thereby freeing up other air defense assets.
It’s going to be multipurpose, ASW, anti mine tasks, mine laying tasks, patrol duty, and will also be an escort ship for convoys as it will replace the old destroyer escorts of the JMSDF.
I have to say though just vision if the japanese where allowed once more to have a full fetched navy and army once more but under new conditions such as territorial protection and emergency deployment capabilities
Their patrol frigates and they are built for that purpose with low manning requirements, JSMDF offensive doctrine is around their heavy destroyer force.
if you pack 8 vls cells with essm missiles - that's 32 (quad packed) short to medium range anti-cruise missile interceptors. that's pretty good on my book. not that easy to saturate.
The MCG is extremely limited IMO, especially when they’re preparing to build 22 of them, it’s a lot to manage, upkeep and staff for a minimal ASW ability. Any submariner knows the chances of this truly tracking them in a time of conflict is minimal at best. The integrated mast has limitations due to it’s size, you can only cram so much into that tight space. The 16 cell Mk-41 VLS is very limiting, should have been 32-48 and using a deeper and more capable VLS. The fact that is hot launch only totally takes away many of the advantages of the stealth and low RCS. The Type-17 SSM-2 anti-ship missiles offset many of the other drawbacks, even though it will only carry eight of them. The crew size is very limiting as well, makes many positions single threaded and provides minimal personnel for collateral and upkeep/repair duties. Though it’s a beautiful ship 😂.
How does it compare vs chinas frigate/Corvette? The newest one that is mainly for ASW also iirc? Curious to hear your thoughts. China's has better anti surface ship capabilities right? And what about anti air?
@@ex0duzz I would rate this as a more flexible and capable platform than the Type-054a, though it’s more of a true combat support ship than a dedicated frigate like the 054 series. The MCG is much more sophisticated and has more room to grow in the future, for example, the Type-17 is scheduled to reach a range of 1,500km, which would be a tremendous strike capability. It’s a much more modern design than the 054a, that said, the Admiral Gorshkov class is much better than both of them, IMO.
Although she can just bring 16 MK-41 VLS cells, let's don't forget JMSDF can quadpack 4 ESSM missile into one cell MK 41 in their asahi and akizuki class destroyer, although report said that it will not carry ESSM. but it will carry type 03 medium range missile which i think they will make it quad packed in 1 cell of MK 41. we can assume that Mogami class can carry 32 type 03 medium range in 8 cells (4x8) and also still can carry 8 type 07 ASROC which mean they can carry more missile than 32 cells on type 054a frigate
using deeper and more capable VLS? Hot launch only? Make it cold launch?? Well Japan gotta create their own indiginious VLS than. U do realize US and Western VLS are smaller than Chinese and Russian ones and only hot launch? Also Gorshkov is closer in size to Arleigh Burke than Frigate for example look at Project 22350M ships
@@ex0duzz Specifically looking at Type 054A vs Mogami, Type 03 is medium range SAM like the HQ-16/Buk, and Type 17 has more range and can communicate with each other (they can time to strike the ship at the same time) vs YJ-83. Both YJ-83 and Type 17 are subsonic
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Well, I don't think that the Mogami class, or any other JN ship, can be fully evaluated based on a current configuration, but must be viewed in terms of how flexibly they can be up missioned.
This is the FF(+G) that the US wanted or needed the LCS to become but couldn't the last few years which is why the USN ended up going with their Euro pocket-Aegis destroy FFGs. I dont see how this Ideal small surface combatant for countering the red army conscript spam of the PLAN's small surface combatants is over hyped??? They are equally lightly armed but considered multi role. With its VLS shooting quad packs of ESSM and super advanced ECM suite, seems pretty multi role to me and with its low radar cross section seems like the perfect match for the PLAN mosquito navy.
16x4 with the quad pack launchers for the medium range missiles which are still capable of local area air defense like for a convoy or SAG unlike for a wider spread out carrier battle group but that is still doing air defense. Still multi role if light on the air role but that advances steath and ECM suite more then makes up for that in the full spectrum of combat.
It's good to see many namesakes of second world war IJN ships coming back to life: Soryu, Kaga, Izumo, Mogami, etc. When will we see the second iterations of Shokaku, Zuikaku, Hiryu, Akagi, and the rest? How about the Yamato back as a fleet carrier? - nothing symbolizes Japan better than that name...
Lol , all of the name of the ships have nothing to do with the IJN , it was just "Dragon" , "Rugged" , "Cloud","Extreme" and Taigei (Big Whale). Yamato was always associated with the Imperial Family and since Modern Japan practicing a separation of Church and State and Limited Monarchy the Yamato name will be unlikely to be chosen.
The appearance of this battleship is very special. I don't seem to see its draped launch module. It should make a good target for hypersonic anti-ship missiles.
@@SonySytleJapan It's your own ignorance. LOL 🤣🤣 this corvette does not have enough anti-aircraft missiles. There are not even CIWS. And the patch radar is easily locked by the radiation-proof seeker. The radiation area is too large after all.
@@SonySytleJapan You know almost nothing about military affairs. LRASM is fully capable of this. The Maritime Self-Defense Force is well aware of its performance
Mogami clas have 32 vls Capablenof antiship Antisurface The most nice thing on this ships Its stealthy capability...JAPAN WANTS 64 combat ships in the future
Don't agree about the air warfare bit. 16 cells quadpacked with essm equals 32 medium range missiles and 8 asroc torpedos which would be perfect for escort duties, and shared targeting data from other warships miles away can provide higher accuracy than just the ships own radar.
Japan does have billion-dollar destroyers that can do everything. But they only 8 of them. Their own AEGIS destroyers. This “only” their frigate, afterall. Theyre “only” planning on 22 of them coz they already have 36 destroyers. Granted, most of them arent that well equipped in terms of the latest AA suites.
Good analysis but highly repetitious. At 5,500 tons the Mogami is a very large vessel for something called a Frigate. Never the less it does seem to be well designed to do a specialized task that the Japanese navy ignored to its peril in WW2. Both China and Russia possess substantial submarine fleets Japan will have to deal with in order to protect its sea lanes to the rest of the world.
The world knew how capable the Japanese in terms of building a warships.. that is why the chinese still affraid to the japanese untill now.. from the tactics, experiences, and now they have the advance technologies,! China is much more affraid to japan.! More power to JMSDF..
Mogami class is made to counter the large submarine fleet of china and I think Japan should build not only 22 ships they should have atleast 30ships of the class but for better protection JSDF should consider putting VLS to the ship even only just 16vls just is ever it will be detected and got attack by enemy aircrafts
@@ayouthinasia4105 Japanese Navy, or National Japanese Navy or Federal Japanese Navy. Not imperial. BTW fuck the PLA, KPA, VC, IJN, and IJA. Слава ROC, ROK, RVN(will return) armed forces!
Mogami is design to plug us naval asw and minewarefare gap in the first island chain and have enough air defense to defend itself or aid there bigger destroyer brothers and Allies on that role there like a better type 23 to the type 45 destroyers.
You might be under estimating Japan's Seamanship capabilities. They are a Patroling Navy that understands Her waters, the strenght and weaknes'. She also has a Mighty friend. China has been kicking down the door of Japan for centruries, yet the little country has held her own. Her Mighty friend is there just to keep the fight fair. Japan's Sailors are First Rate, if they think they need that Badass Battleship they will build one.
Oh sure , u r still dreaming of their ww2 heroics & if that country hasn’t learned anything from the 2 blasts , China won’t hesitate to add a few more in that respect as Japan would do well not to challenge China this time around as China will level those islands in no time. It’s up to Japan to act wisely or foolishly.
At the beginning of WW2 the USA had, through careful calculation and study, inadequately equiped its ships with anti-aircraft guns. Soon the US plastered it's ships with them. Based on Ukraine, plan on defending against and launching swarms of stealth drones in the form of missles, torpedoes, aircraft, and small boats.
If the SAMs provided can be quad pack in a VLS 41 cell, the Mogami should have an adequate point air defence… but it will have to be practically in between the ship it is defending and the incoming missiles… It also needs a CIWS of some kind…
As you point out, Mogami class has a lot of limitation‘s. It is as you state an anti-submarine warfare frigate. The only real practical threat it is designed to counter is the huge but inexperienced Chinese navy. The Chinese Will probably attempt to disrupt supplies and trade to, and from Europe, the US, and the Middle East. They have proven inept at managing carrier, battle groups, which have very short range. A large Japanese submarine force. It’s probably superior at local defense against their surface warfare navy. The only possibility of success for China lies in their large, noisy, and primitive submarine fleet. The new class of frigates are designed to counter that thread. Effectively China neutered.
So how exactly is the younger JMSDF more experienced in fighting wars than the PLAN? You also completely ignored the fact that China has the second largest destroyer fleet, most of which are very modern; more than 9 out of ten destroyers have AESA radars, for example. That's 100% more than USN's destroyer fleet. Their carrier battle groups have a very short range compared to what? They've even conducted blue-water operations. Explain how China's submarine fleet is primitive, and how it's 'their only hope'. You do realize that they've launched like, 20 large and modern surface combatants over a span of 8 or so years? None of those are China's 'only hope'? They've got the previously mentioned second largest destroyer fleet, the largest submarine fleet, the largest fleet of frigates, and the second largest fleet of corvettes, all backed by a formidable maritime air force, and one of the most powerful Global Navigation Satellite Systems in the world (around 35 satellites in medium Earth orbit). Their median ship age is also the youngest among naval superpowers (13.8 years, USN is 23.3, and Japan's is 14.8). Sorry, but I'm not convinced that China's down on their knees, shivering their timbers, just praying that they don't have to fight the Japs again.
the Mogami class could have done with a bit more displacement . . . 6,893 ton (unladen) & 8,205 ton (loaded) . . . should have featured iSMARTFuelCell® HYBRId™ full electric propulsion system . . . seriously needs to be armed with a 48-cell SYLVER A50 VLS in the forward bow section of the frigate, immediate aft of the front 82 MM main gun . . . able to fire anything from RGM-109B Tomahawk (Block IV) semi-active infrared homing land attack cruise missile & Exocet MM40 (Block III) active radar homing medium range anti-ship missile to MICA VL inertial guided surface-to-air missiles . . .
@@gerrybonono6672 It's not impossible because of Philippines' newly acquired leverage. Now that US has stationed thousands of troops in multiple bases in the Philippines; if they sanction Philippines for buying Russian military products, Philippines can threaten to remove the American troops from their country.
One of the key feature of teh class is the high level of automation and small crew size. This is particularly important since Japan has the oldest population in teh world, reducing its manpower power pool, and the JSDF (as a whole) would have difficulty competing for manpower with the civilian sector.
The PLAN would do well to emulate this. While not presently having the oldest population, China has the fastest aging population and will be older than Japan in a few decades.
This consideration gets very little attention, but is becoming more and more critical as industrialized nations age.
とても詳しくもがみ型の欠点と目的が解説されていました。
分かりやすく素晴らしかったです。
Thanks sir!
QOBILTU.ALHAMDULILLAHIROBBIL ALAMIIN,ALLAHUMMA AMIIN.☆☆☆☆☆.@$.
love the fact that JMSDF used WW2 IJN names for most of these ships
They have the Pagoda design too like the IJN ships
Tradition rules!
The Mogami class is as the narrator states...a Frigate. Frigates have specific duties as the narrator states and are not usually thought of as Air Defense platforms. The other duty is to act as a "Scout" and to perform "Pickett Duty for the fleet.
Frigate's role depends per navy wherein some European frigates main role is anti-air warfare but on JMSDF's case, their frigates (former DEs) and most of destroyers (except the Akizuki class and Japanese AEGIS ships) were tasked for ASW duties.
@Brian Foley
The french navy used several frigates as aaw units with other units of the same class asw and GP. .. thus getting good value and servicability.. quantity is often better than too few hulls
You hit nail on the head. Too vulnerable to F35 equipped with Harpoons. However, those pesky North Korean subs has met their shinigami. Japan must protect their Aegis detroyers. North Korea will certainly use wolfpack type attack, have 5 or more subs because in the war, quantities do matter.
It depends: the Italian PPA, when properly equipped could be considered an equal or superior ship compared to the mogami due to a larger size and better armament, and yet it is considered an high sea patrol ship.
On the other side of the spectrum, an Horizon class like the Forbin in France is considered to be a Frigate, despite being a large destroyer. Someone could argue that A FREM frigate is as large and capable as a Perry class destroyer, while a Zumwalt is still considered a destroyer despite its cruiser size and displacement.
In the end, nobody knows what a frigate is today, transforming it in a sorto of trashcan category where everything not overly large can end, or not, without rules.
@@Leptospirosi You are a lot more knowledgeable than I. Thanks for the input. Learned something for sure.
I think a suitable VLS load-out would be 8 ASROC and 32 quad-packed ESSM Block II SAMs. The 27 nm range of ESSM fits the X band AESA radar very well. As for the lack of a VSR, you mention CEC when in the company of the Aegis ships. But, in addition, I think that when the Mogamis are steaming independently on an area ASW patrol, they will use stealth and EMCON to disappear. They would use their panoramic EO/IRST as well as ESM to sense the environment. A powerful VSR hurts you in ASW. Submariners say it is easy to spot SPY-1 ships with the ESM receivers in their periscopes.
24 x ESSM blk 2, 6 x ASROC and 16 x Patriot Cap 3 (currently being trailed to be quad fitted into the strike length Mk 41 VLS) all up 16 VLS.
There is talk about this ship can be upgraded with extra VLS counts and this being mentioned in the bid offered to Australia.
It seems the Mogami class is a good coastal defense warship as long as it stays under land based air umbrella or supported by an Aegis destroyer. The 16 cell Mk41 magazine if quad loaded with the RIM-162 Evolved Sea Sparrow Missiles along with its RIM-116 SeaRAM missile launcher would give it a fair self defense anti-air missile system. If the Japanese Type 03 Chu medium-range surface-to-air missiles can be quad packed I haven't heard. For midrange submarine attack the Type 07 anti-submarine missiles may be loaded in the Mk41 or the SH-60K and L Seahawk anti-submarine helicopters could be used along with land based air. When looking at an individual warship it should be viewed as part of a integrated fleet during actual combat. The Mogami class in its final configuration will be a capable component vessel in the Japanese naval force.
The quality of the content on this chance is amazing. I hate half-assed videos that simp about this or that, especially with weeb shit.
Thank you for bringing some reality into the conversation.
Thanks friend!
thats a beautiful ship. I gotta hand it to the Japanese when they make ships they are gorgeous. Just like the World War 2 ships they made.
Your discussion is generally correct, but you are a bit wrong about the most important mission of the Mogami type.
Mogami's most important mission is not anti-submarine warfare, but mine clearance. You refer to the mine clearance capability as secondary, but you are wrong. This ship was built for mine warfare only. If it did not have the ability to clear mines, Japan would not need to build this ship.
In a war with China over Taiwan, mine clearance is the most important element and at the same time the most dangerous mission for a ship.
Why is Japan building these ships in large numbers? The answer is that mine clearance, no matter how advanced and careful the technology is, is a high-wear and tear operation, and it is impossible to fight through the world's toughest mine clearance war without a large number of ships.
Why did Japan suddenly need extreme stealthiness of ships in Mogami? This is another reason for mine warfare.
It is clear that China will use mines for A2AD in a Taiwan contingency, and mine clearance will be necessary even where China has air superiority. Similarly, mine laying must be done in areas where China has air superiority. Simply put, the USS Gargami must engage in mine warfare outside the air defenses of the Japanese and U.S. fleets.
However, larger ships for greater air defense capability are detrimental to mine warfare, and for this reason stealth was required like never before.
Certainly, anti-submarine warfare is extremely important, but the large amount of equipment for anti-submarine warfare is true for all ships of the Imperial Japanese Navy, and the anti-submarine warfare equipment of the Mogami is average compared to other ships of the Imperial Japanese Navy.
None of the other ships, however, have a high mine clearance capability. (This is true of the main destroyers of any navy.)
Among the ships of the Imperial Japanese Navy, mine clearance is something that almost only the Mogami can do. (This is true of the mainstay destroyers of any navy.) The IJN's fleet rarely ventures into mined waters because it is too dangerous for other, more expensive vessels to do so. The previous class of Mogami's vessels were also designed to clear mines.
あなたの考察は概ね正しいが、もがみ型の最重要ミッションについて少し間違えている。
もがみの最重要任務は対潜水艦戦ではなく機雷除去です。あなたは機雷除去能力を副次的と言っているが、間違いです。この船は機雷戦のためだけに作られた船です。機雷除去能力がもしないのなら日本はこの船を作る必要がありません。
台湾をめぐる中国との戦争では機雷除去は最も重要な要素であり同時に最も船が危険にさらされる任務です。
なぜ日本がこの船を大量に建造するのか？その答えは機雷除去はどんなに技術を高めて気を付けても船の損耗が激しく、大量に船を準備しないと世界で最も過酷になる機雷除去戦を戦い抜くことは不可能だからです。
なぜ日本が突然もがみで極端に船のステルス性を必要としたのか？これも機雷戦が理由です。
台湾有事で中国はA2ADのために機雷を用いることは明らかであり、機雷除去は中国が航空優勢を取っている場所でも必要になります。また同様に機雷敷設も中国の航空優勢海域で行う必要があります。簡単に言えば日米艦隊の防空網の外でもがみ型は機雷戦を戦わなければならないのです。
しかし防空能力を高めるために船が大型化するのは機雷戦にとって不利であり、このような理由でステルス性がかつてないほど要求されました。
確かに対潜水艦戦は極めて重要ですが、対潜水艦戦用装備が多いことは日本海軍のすべての艦艇に言えることであり、もがみの対戦装備は日本海軍の他の艦艇と比べても平均的です。
しかし他のどの船も機雷除去能力は高くありません。（これはどこの海軍の主力駆逐艦にも言えることですが）
日本海軍の船では機雷除去はほとんど、もがみにしかできないことです。というよりも機雷除去戦は他の高価な船がやるにはあまりにも危険すぎるので機雷がある海域には艦隊は進出しないというのがより正しい言い方です。もがみの前級の艦艇も機雷除去のための船でした。
If Japan wants to join the Taiwan war, the frigate would have been sunk by the Chinese missiles which it has little defense. It is suited for near coast operation and Taiwan is a little far.
@@johnnymars9782支那狗
It's just Chinese "people" seething 24X7
I think it is a more practical LCS rather than a true Frigate. ( if LCS ever has Anti-submarine modules and Mine countermeasures module, but hey, it never seems ganna happen)
A HIMARS cost 400 milion
More like this is the FF(+G) that the US wanted or needed the LCS to become but couldn't the last few years which is why the USN ended up going with their Euro pocket-Aegis destroy FFGs. I dont see how this Ideal small surface combatant for countering the red army conscript spam of the PLAN's small surface combatants. They are equally lightly armed but considered multi role. With its VLS shooting quad packs of ESSM and super advanced ECM suite, seems pretty multi role to me and with its low radar cross section seems like the perfect match for the PLAN mosquito navy.
@@logicbomb5511 It is essential to know that Mogami Classes are built for the Mine Warfare Force of Japan, not the Fleet Escort Force. It serves a role more like a corvette in European countries (this is one reason why those mk41 are not
installed at the beginning). If you follow its development, in the beginning, it is basically a Japanese LCS (maximum speed is more than 40knot ). I know it is tough to classify a ship type these days, but Frigate is Second rate or third-rate ship for significant navy power (like us and china) or a First rate ship in European countries, Russia, and Australia. Those first-rate frigates are much more well-armed compared to 054a or FFGX, like 127mm gun for land support and very capable anti-air
capability, etc.Because they need to fill the role of 052d and Arleigh Burke-class. FFGX, like 054a, is a modern Perry class type of ship, cheap and all-around to serve as a supporting role for the blue water navy. It is easy to see the difference in roles of FFGX compared to Mogami Classes on air radar, more long-range radar( like s-band) compared to x-band on Mogami Classes. Also important to know that, like the Korean navy, JMSDF needs to counter the North Korean threat( it may sound crazy to some people, but it is a real problem), and the Daegu class and Mogami Classes both have large mk45 guns rather than normally cheaper, and all-round OTO Melara for frigates is for that reason.
@@logicbomb5511 However, I don't think FFGX will end up cheap. It will be over price like other US new weapon systems these days.
You're wrong. It's missile frigate with practical LCS capability😉
This is an incredibly well-researched and put-together video. Thank you for this!
It is good to see Japan going in the right direction.
japan's navy is in full swing . every time i check their shipyards from google earth i notice many ships being built or maintained . same goes to china but not same for the old powers usa russia france uk
japan can not even make 1 out 10 ship china make at the same time
@@xinyiquan666支那狗的粗制滥造还是别提了
@@xinyiquan666支那狗病毒害死全球那么多人你们死个十五亿不过分吧
A much needed video thanks
Great video, and the ship class looks beautiful.
6:34
The camouflage pattern of the photo is a fiction posted during April Fool's Day.
The Mogami class has also a AAW variant with 64 VLS and new LRASM.
(I'm not really sure if it was new LRASM I saw in the video since it was in Japanese or just the same AShM with early variant just using a VLS.)
@@jonathangarner1516 Naval News about the new Mitsubishi's family of frigates
Really? 64 VLS? I though it only had 16
@@IsraelMilitaryChannel read my comment again
@@night8285 You are spurting out garbage no thanks
@@IsraelMilitaryChannel you do you man. I don't know if you have poor reading comprehension or just outright denying facts that you think as a lie.
Edit: I already commented the source in the comment section, if you didn't see it.
She’s a frigate not a destroyer
Fregate rasa destroyer
She’s a dildo not a frigate
As a convoy escort and general patrol vessel they will be fantastic. 16 cells are actually a good fitout for the operational system. I would expect 8 cells quad packed with self defence missiles and 8 asroc. the 32 missiles would be enough to defend against a assault on a convoy when working with an AEGIS destroyer.
More is better. I don't understand why Western nations continue to build ship's with low missle numbers especially when missles are cheap and numerous and as ukraine has proved poae a serious threat. Why not fit themselves out with 100+ defence missles and 30+ antiship missles?
@@bobbyrayofthefamilysmith24 why not 300 missiles?
@@Pepe-dq2ib at least 400, they're cheap
They should add 1000 VLS cells 😂😂😂
If that is your logic, you will fail logistically and lose the war.
Btw, missiles explode as well.
16 cells is enough for a frigate, maybe 32 but they already have light destroyers with 32 cells (Asahi)
@@yellomonky4272 The sheer cost of filling all the cells on a Frigate is already high. and as an escort I agree with you these are nice ships. If going into more hairy locations they will work as part of a fleet and the Japanese have multiple ships with more missile cells. I still think the RAN Hobart class at 48 cells are underarmed but thats just my opinion. The Pk of modern western SAM's is very high and that is also likely a part of the calculation. Again agree with your sentiments.
I think Mogami-class Frigate is perfect for its Purpose, we have to remember that all japan's adversaries China, Russia and North- Korea is very close to japan, Russia is within 300km, North-Korea around 500km and China about 500km( from okinawa) and thus Mogami will most of the time operate near japan will be under land based SAM's protection and thus do not required extensive Anti- air capabilities which is also due given their main role which will be ASW. I think Mogami is perfect to combat North Korea who has large(nearly 100) but obsolete submarines in the sea of japan where Anti- air and Anti- ship operations can be left to Land based SAM's and the air force. Also the mark 41 vls can quad pack ESSMs which it can carry 64 of them for air defense if required but the Air defense role will be left to destroyers and SAM or the newly proposed FFM class frigate with 32 vls. I think Mogami's strength lies in AWS capabilities along with advance autonomous sub systems and they are really easy to build which is important in war time.
I find those ships a perfectly fit for the frigate role, an ASW ship capable of patrolling western Pacific hunting subs, able to selfdefending from missile attack, treatening second line ships and land targets. The whole package at half price of a Destroyer. Per my opinion I'll prefer other 16 VLS for something like LRASM instead of 8 on desk AShM. Destroyers fullfil area defense mission with SM-6 missiles along with escort mission and all around capabilities. They are the one and only battleship nowadays!!! Eastern and western allies can build about hundred frigates to patrol seas but need a great number of Destroyers to escort aircraft carriers, amphibious ships, oilers, container carriers and bulk carriers (3/400.000 tons each about) around the world. Sometime a Frigate can be diverted to escort smaller (20/100.000 tons) commercial ships to secondary sea route, like small countries on Pacific islands.
Bye
Freedom everyone
lol what kind of delusional comment is this , typical garbage from western military whoreshipper
Mogami is a very close concept to the French FDI: a way to have good capabilities while being affordable in numbers. The size itself limits what it can do in a fleet, due to lack of manpower and limited spaces, compared to more capable ships with double the tonnage, but also double the cost. If the 350M$ is accurate, you can buy two of these ships compared to a 600M€ Bergamini class, which is not a bad thing, if you plan your fleet to stay inside you exclusive economic zone anyway and you have a lot of islands to protect.
Where Mogami starts to suffer is when multimission roles are required, like Disaster relief or heavy duty fleet defense, but this is a matter of a short quilt. Even a Thaon di Revell PPA displaces almost 1500 tons more then a Mogami Frigate and it sports a proper C and X band radar suite. The point, anyway, is that Japan "HAS" more capable ships, and the Mogami is intended to fill the gaps, for which is a very competent little ship. The only thing I'd change is the 127mm gun for a smaller but more flexible 76mm (or two) which would better cope with swarming attacks, but I guess the 127mm was chosen made to underline its patrol duty role.
Still, as those 16 VL41 launchers will be added in future, I wouldn't be surprised to see a C radar module growing on the mast, side by side to the original X band antenna. Italy originally had similar concepts, with the PPA light (X band only) but upgrades to the Full suite (C+X) are already financed.
After all, if all it takes is a couple of antennas to massively upgrade the AA capability of your ships, why not?
Nice Ship !
As an old Boatswains Mate I can appreciate the clean lines . Ill bet she handles like a Jaguar XF
Great video and really well researched.
Are you and Weapon Detective telepathically linked?! 😂
Love the video and breakdown btw, your channel is a breath of fresh air in the TH-cam sphere of reading spec sheets ❤️
True
Thanks friend!
Great video! Can you make a video on Formidable Class frigate? Known as one of the most well-armed frigates for its class but not much information is available on its weaknesses.
I haven't been following the Mogami-class so am not aware of any hype, but from your video, I would agree with your assessment. They appear to be primarily designed for littoral warfare, given: the RHIBs, mine warfare capability, and torpedoes designed for shallow waters. The stealth hull also helps here. However, they should still be very capable additions to a blue water task force (TF), as: they can provide good air defence for themselves and act as an outer screen or picket for TF air defence (do you know if they are capable of CEC with the AEGIS-destroyers?); can contribute to surface action by way of 8 x SSMs; and ASW warfare through the helicopter and other weapons. Also, at around 5,500t they are large for traditional Frigates (although some modern Frigates are now around 8,000t but that's another story), which should allow them good range and sea keeping. A key point you highlight, that may influence high-end warfighting in a TF, is its limited weapons loadout.
I agree that hype is perhaps too strong of a word, but I would probably describe the prevailing narrative as uncritical. Basically there's several videos that just discuss their strengths, and seemingly treat them as multirole warships, or even only listing specs, without talking about their limitations (I'm looking at Dung Tran, just for example). One whether they have CEC with the JMSDF AEGIS destroyers, I cannot find info that it has, and I think the word I used is incorrect, because CEC is too specific. I was actually thinking if they can use targeting information provided by other assets to engage aircrafts with SAMs that have active radar guidance - these should require no target illumination. Thanks for asking about that. I agree their large size provides many advantages, which you listed. I would dare to suggest that it also provides more potential for upgrades, e.g. installing more VLS cells. Steel and hull are generally the cheapest part of any modern warship, so it makes sense to build new ships as large as you can power them, so as to future proof against the ease of modernisation later on.
@@EurasiaNaval I certainly wasn't suggesting they haven't been hyped up. That might well be true. Objective analysis is critical, and unfortunately not always found on TH-cam. My point about CEC was (perhaps incorrectly) that the Mogamis might be able to use its sensors to leverage the SAM capabilities of more capable ships, thereby adding to its utility within a TF. Good point you make about its size, which should allow for upgrades. Perhaps more VLS as you suggest as they do seem lightly equipped there. The old saying is, "steel is cheap and air is free".
OP also forgets that the Mk 41 can quad-pack ESSMs, which means that even with a 16-cell VLS the Mogami class can easily load 32 ESSMs + 8 ASROC-type missiles. This loadout would actually exceed the capabilities of the Type 054A which can only load a total of 32 VL missiles split between HHQ-16 and Yu-8 (or CY-5).
10:05 yeah all X-Band radars have limited capabilities, but if you put GaN transmitters on it, you don't have to worry about
They ought to just put a C-band AESA radar on board, with GaN semiconductor technology, rather than a sole X-band. A single C-band is a good balance that is not terribly expensive to produce and power, suitable for the limited power generation of a small ship. The traditional outfit of having a dual S and X band combination is not really viable for second-line warships in the era of GaN or even GaA AESA systems, because it is expensive and power hungry, and sizable liquid cooling system will be required. So just have a single C-band - it's a much better compromise.
You say it has only 16 launch pods and that it's not much. I got a crazy idea.
If there's just 19 people to operate it and it has very high levels of automation, what if, They could reload those pods from the inside and it's just not available information to the public?
That’s crazy, could be possible for quadpacked missiles but highly unlikely, the hull is too small as well.
Jmsdf at least needs 12 Mogamit class frigate s to counter China's aggressions
For air-defense you need a destroyer with a bigger tonnage.
Japan actly has Aegis-equiped destroyers. But only 8 of them. Their own Billion-dollar destroyers.
Yes they already have it , and the ongoing construction of 2 Aegis SPY-7 20,000 ton cruiser
you got a link?@@chad_dogedoge
Seems like a far better version of what the US was trying to do with the Littoral combat ship
Particularly the Freedom-class. It's too bad for such a good looking ship.
Perhaps in the future, Japan will build a large destroyer based on the Mogami type
That'll be one useless destroyer.
Please post more Japanese content!
The Mogami class (最上型) was a ship class of four cruisers built for the Imperial Japanese Navy (IJN) during the 1930s. They were initially classified as light cruisers under the weight and armament restrictions of the London Naval Treaty.A HIMARS cost 400 milion
I just played it in WOWS
It is gratifying to see the rebirth of the Japanese Bluewater fleet. I am sure people are paying attention and reconsidering their future plans.
In addition to patrols and anti-submarine warfare, the Mogami class will be equipped with anti-ship missiles, RAM, SAM-4, and M2 heavy machine guns and will operate as a HUK/SAG advance force and possibly be incorporated into the CSG.
The Kongo, Atago, and Maya class Aegis ships are mainly responsible for missile defense, while the Asahi, Akizuki, and Murasame class destroyers are supposed to protect the Aegis ships, but they may be incorporated to reduce the burden on the Asahi, Akizuki, and Murasame types.
Not for a second would I doubt the capabilities and the quality of these ships. Nor would I question the professionalism of their crews. The Japanese Navy often berth at Pearl Harbour ( yes, ironic I know), and the US servicemen based there often comment on the sheer professionalism of Japanese Navy personnel..... Good to see these ships using a Rolls Royce turbine... You really don't want Japan as an enemy....
So even if they clearly aren't meant to act as rocket ships to space, you won't doubt for a second that they can do exactly that?
You're so delusional.
横から見ると日本刀のようだ！
arigato Japan my favorite imperial army God bless
Thank you for the grand tour! Very interesting design.
What nonsense, Mogami class frigates are not for fleet defense, they have aegis for that. 16 mk 41 vls can contain upto 64 essm SAMs enough for self defense. Oh and you can do volume search with x band for self protection.
The video producers do not understand why the Mogami class was built. Advanced air defence capabilities were not required from the design stage. Low-cost frigates with a minimum set of capabilities is what was required, and the military is happy with it.
Why is that? Because the Mogami class is meant to replace the ships of the minesweeping fleet and missile boat squadrons. The Mogami class replaces ships that were originally incapable of anti-aircraft combat. Instead, it is just a reinforcement of the entire navy.
The entire military will have a wider range of activities, and in terms of combat, it can join the line of fire and participate in anti-submarine, electronic warfare and anti-ship combat. There is nothing bad about it.
If the IJN really pursues satisfactory performance, there is no other option but ships equipped with the Aegis system or new destroyers. That is an impossible order, both organisationally and budgetarily.
Simply, the current Imperial Japanese Navy is looking for numbers rather than quality of ships.
Let's just compare this to all other frigates from major naval countries. Almost all of them have integrated organic medium-range air defense capabilities and VLS systems. For a mine sweeping and ASW ship, it is not very survivable and way too expensive to justify cost vs capability. It also can't do any anti-ship combat considering that it has barely any space for missiles. The Japanese should've built a cheaper corvette to do this job.
PS this frigate costs as much as a Type54A frigate, which is exponentially more capable, and only half the cost of the FREMM frigate which too is exponentially more capable (like 1 vs 25 sorts of effectiveness for both).
@@dabo5078
The Mogami class frigates were selected because they have the minimum performance requirements for the Imperial Japanese Navy. There is no need for a lower cost frigate. If we did, you would be a much stronger critic. So that idea is also a clear mistake.
Above all, the Imperial Japanese Navy does not envisage surface combat ships fighting each other alone. It needs to work together with aircraft and submarines.
The reason why the Navy thinks it is a good idea is because, as I commented, the current wooden minesweepers and high-speed missile boats will be replaced by the Mogami class, which will improve the organisation's war potential. There are no advanced air defence systems or anti-ship missiles in wooden boats. You can understand the significance of replacing them with the Mogami class.
In addition, the role of laying mines in the open sea will be added. Therefore, the Mogami class is not a main force, but an auxiliary one. It is only a reliable partner to the main destroyers.
@@s_n_gstein4027 FIrst of all why are you calling the JMSDF the IJA (which was destroyed and disbanded in WW2). Also the problem is that this frigate is not at all cheap in both construction and maintenance compared to corvettes or "wooden boats". You don't get more capability but you still pay extra. There is very little to justify the cost for such a minute increase in capibility.
@@dabo5078
The Navy has already explained why it is adopting the Mogami class. We have explained it twice?
In the current naval situation, the minesweeping fleet is overstretched and missile boats are completely useless. The existing frigates, the Abukuma class, are obsolete. Replacing those ships with the Mogami class and applying their manpower will improve the overall strength of the fleet. That is what the Navy is about.
To say the costs are not balanced is just your lack of understanding about the Navy.
@@s_n_gstein4027 Or that this ship is wholly incapable of executing the mission something of this price point is meant to.
Could be similar to the Dutch M-frigate replacement. An initial design for that had almost the exact same dimensions, and I think also a 16 cell Mk41 VLS. Since then the design was changed to be smaller, but that has now turned out to be too small. Given that the roles are similar it sort of makes sense for them to be about the same size(?)
It's not meant to operate alone. I imagine its antiair capability is primarily for self defense. With a 5 inch gun, this could easily be part of an assault fleet. Other vessels would be tasked with air defense, while this can fend for itself, thereby freeing up other air defense assets.
You can mount a 5 inch gun on a 1,000 ton vessel, you don't need a frigate.
It’s going to be multipurpose, ASW, anti mine tasks, mine laying tasks, patrol duty, and will also be an escort ship for convoys as it will replace the old destroyer escorts of the JMSDF.
They have enough space to be able to be very much upgraded with much heavier weapon and sensor fitout, with only 16 VLS this can be increased ect
I wouldn't call a crew of 90 "very small". OK, it's not the Scharnhorst or Tirpitz, but well...
So mogami is now just a frigate, I just hope it's the same size and as majestic as the first one
Very important Tactical Advantage Against Chinese Subs.
I have to say though just vision if the japanese where allowed once more to have a full fetched navy and army once more but under new conditions such as territorial protection and emergency deployment capabilities
もがみ型FFMの特徴がよく分かりました。
In a future Pacific war, the Japanese are going to wish these ships had much more firepower.
Their patrol frigates and they are built for that purpose with low manning requirements, JSMDF offensive doctrine is around their heavy destroyer force.
いえ、私たち日本人はおそらくこう思うでしょう。「もっと潜水艦を作ればよかった」
@@the5gen In a future war, even patrol ships will need heavier armament.
Bagus sekali.. misi yang di emban banyak
Multi purpose frigate
it is a fact...Japan defence power is back...
and this is a key factor against china aggressive policy...
Even weird modern ships are beautiful in japan
This has to be the best designed ship 🚢 on that side of the world
if you pack 8 vls cells with essm missiles - that's 32 (quad packed) short to medium range anti-cruise missile interceptors. that's pretty good on my book. not that easy to saturate.
The MCG is extremely limited IMO, especially when they’re preparing to build 22 of them, it’s a lot to manage, upkeep and staff for a minimal ASW ability. Any submariner knows the chances of this truly tracking them in a time of conflict is minimal at best.
The integrated mast has limitations due to it’s size, you can only cram so much into that tight space. The 16 cell Mk-41 VLS is very limiting, should have been 32-48 and using a deeper and more capable VLS. The fact that is hot launch only totally takes away many of the advantages of the stealth and low RCS. The Type-17 SSM-2 anti-ship missiles offset many of the other drawbacks, even though it will only carry eight of them. The crew size is very limiting as well, makes many positions single threaded and provides minimal personnel for collateral and upkeep/repair duties. Though it’s a beautiful ship 😂.
How does it compare vs chinas frigate/Corvette? The newest one that is mainly for ASW also iirc? Curious to hear your thoughts. China's has better anti surface ship capabilities right? And what about anti air?
@@ex0duzz I would rate this as a more flexible and capable platform than the Type-054a, though it’s more of a true combat support ship than a dedicated frigate like the 054 series. The MCG is much more sophisticated and has more room to grow in the future, for example, the Type-17 is scheduled to reach a range of 1,500km, which would be a tremendous strike capability. It’s a much more modern design than the 054a, that said, the Admiral Gorshkov class is much better than both of them, IMO.
Although she can just bring 16 MK-41 VLS cells, let's don't forget JMSDF can quadpack 4 ESSM missile into one cell MK 41 in their asahi and akizuki class destroyer, although report said that it will not carry ESSM. but it will carry type 03 medium range missile which i think they will make it quad packed in 1 cell of MK 41. we can assume that Mogami class can carry 32 type 03 medium range in 8 cells (4x8) and also still can carry 8 type 07 ASROC which mean they can carry more missile than 32 cells on type 054a frigate
using deeper and more capable VLS? Hot launch only? Make it cold launch?? Well Japan gotta create their own indiginious VLS than. U do realize US and Western VLS are smaller than Chinese and Russian ones and only hot launch?
Also Gorshkov is closer in size to Arleigh Burke than Frigate for example look at Project 22350M ships
@@ex0duzz Specifically looking at Type 054A vs Mogami, Type 03 is medium range SAM like the HQ-16/Buk, and Type 17 has more range and can communicate with each other (they can time to strike the ship at the same time) vs YJ-83. Both YJ-83 and Type 17 are subsonic
もがみ型はより高価な能力の高いアセット（DDG）などを前線に送る時に開く後方を警備するのが目的だと思う
Looks more like a corvette
What the USN LCS should've been.
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Beautiful ship, i want one as a home i think :-)
Still better than a US LCS.
Great Japan Navy
Well, I don't think that the Mogami class, or any other JN ship, can be fully evaluated based on a current configuration, but must be viewed in terms of how flexibly they can be up missioned.
This is the FF(+G) that the US wanted or needed the LCS to become but couldn't the last few years which is why the USN ended up going with their Euro pocket-Aegis destroy FFGs. I dont see how this Ideal small surface combatant for countering the red army conscript spam of the PLAN's small surface combatants is over hyped??? They are equally lightly armed but considered multi role. With its VLS shooting quad packs of ESSM and super advanced ECM suite, seems pretty multi role to me and with its low radar cross section seems like the perfect match for the PLAN mosquito navy.
16x4 with the quad pack launchers for the medium range missiles which are still capable of local area air defense like for a convoy or SAG unlike for a wider spread out carrier battle group but that is still doing air defense. Still multi role if light on the air role but that advances steath and ECM suite more then makes up for that in the full spectrum of combat.
It's good to see many namesakes of second world war IJN ships coming back to life: Soryu, Kaga, Izumo, Mogami, etc. When will we see the second iterations of Shokaku, Zuikaku, Hiryu, Akagi, and the rest? How about the Yamato back as a fleet carrier? - nothing symbolizes Japan better than that name...
Lol , all of the name of the ships have nothing to do with the IJN , it was just "Dragon" , "Rugged" , "Cloud","Extreme" and Taigei (Big Whale). Yamato was always associated with the Imperial Family and since Modern Japan practicing a separation of Church and State and Limited Monarchy the Yamato name will be unlikely to be chosen.
probably. it is expected to fight within Japanese waters. indicating that air defense will be covered by the JASDF and their anti-air assets.
The appearance of this battleship is very special. I don't seem to see its draped launch module. It should make a good target for hypersonic anti-ship missiles.
極超音速について何一つ分かってなくて草
@@SonySytleJapan It's your own ignorance. LOL 🤣🤣 this corvette does not have enough anti-aircraft missiles. There are not even CIWS. And the patch radar is easily locked by the radiation-proof seeker. The radiation area is too large after all.
@@nirvana3921 お前の国の武器まともに機能してないクセして威張り散らすな
@@SonySytleJapan You know almost nothing about military affairs. LRASM is fully capable of this. The Maritime Self-Defense Force is well aware of its performance
@@nirvana3921 チャイナちゃんに教えておげよう。まず、そもそも極超音速と長距離対艦は区分が異なる。そしてその特性上、極超音速は移動目標ではなく主に対地攻撃に向いている。その為本艦に極超音速ミサイルを利用すること自体、戦略的不合理。
次に対艦ミサイル防御としてseaRAMや17式SSMが搭載される故、Mk.41のVLSも後日装備される。それがユニット装備化、拡充が可能なFFMの利点。運用上機雷戦能力に長けている点、ステルス性の特徴からより対戦に特化しているが、何より掃海隊群所属の本艦は護衛隊群の護衛艦とはその任務も用途も装備も異なることすらわかってないようだな。バカにこれ以上付き合いことはないな。
I guess I'll wait for the missile selection to decide what to do with the air defense
Japan already wants an improved Mogami class to rectify its limitations
Modern version of the WW2 cruiser mogami
Mogami clas have 32 vls Capablenof antiship Antisurface The most nice thing on this ships Its stealthy capability...JAPAN WANTS 64 combat ships in the future
Don't agree about the air warfare bit.
16 cells quadpacked with essm equals 32 medium range missiles and 8 asroc torpedos which would be perfect for escort duties, and shared targeting data from other warships miles away can provide higher accuracy than just the ships own radar.
Only 22 ships? Build at least 100 of them 😃
450 million per unit. That is real cheap compared to the billion dollar ships we make.
Japan does have billion-dollar destroyers that can do everything. But they only 8 of them. Their own AEGIS destroyers. This “only” their frigate, afterall. Theyre “only” planning on 22 of them coz they already have 36 destroyers. Granted, most of them arent that well equipped in terms of the latest AA suites.
The Japanese navy seems to have the semi stealth ship design down pat...
its the only person you can listen the whole day relax an easy going 10 stars for you😊
...nice video ! 👍
Thank you very much!
The stormy Sea of Japan easily crush small ships like tin -can.
Mogami class is just a little big patrol ship.
Good analysis but highly repetitious. At 5,500 tons the Mogami is a very large vessel for something called a Frigate. Never the less it does seem to be well designed to do a specialized task that the Japanese navy ignored to its peril in WW2. Both China and Russia possess substantial submarine fleets Japan will have to deal with in order to protect its sea lanes to the rest of the world.
The world knew how capable the Japanese in terms of building a warships.. that is why the chinese still affraid to the japanese untill now.. from the tactics, experiences, and now they have the advance technologies,! China is much more affraid to japan.! More power to JMSDF..
Mogami class is made to counter the large submarine fleet of china and I think Japan should build not only 22 ships they should have atleast 30ships of the class but for better protection JSDF should consider putting VLS to the ship even only just 16vls just is ever it will be detected and got attack by enemy aircrafts
Looks like 'Self Defense Force' will soon change its name to 'Imperial Japanese Army'
Imperial Japanese Army of the United States
If japan keeps making this type of ship, it is still ganna be the anti-submarine division of the US navy.
@@ayouthinasia4105 Japanese Navy, or National Japanese Navy or Federal Japanese Navy. Not imperial. BTW fuck the PLA, KPA, VC, IJN, and IJA. Слава ROC, ROK, RVN(will return) armed forces!
Slowly, surely.
WWⅡ以降の日本国の伝統は対米追従です
Mogami is design to plug us naval asw and minewarefare gap in the first island chain and have enough air defense to defend itself or aid there bigger destroyer brothers and Allies on that role there like a better type 23 to the type 45 destroyers.
You might be under estimating Japan's Seamanship capabilities. They are a Patroling Navy that understands Her waters, the strenght and weaknes'. She also has a Mighty friend. China has been kicking down the door of Japan for centruries, yet the little country has held her own. Her Mighty friend is there just to keep the fight fair. Japan's Sailors are First Rate, if they think they need that Badass Battleship they will build one.
Oh sure , u r still dreaming of their ww2 heroics & if that country hasn’t learned anything from the 2 blasts , China won’t hesitate to add a few more in that respect as Japan would do well not to challenge China this time around as China will level those islands in no time. It’s up to Japan to act wisely or foolishly.
@@Wbliss until China ever wins a modern war, I will hold my horses.
@@Wbliss The Chineses military is fake, stolen tech. weak and afriad of Americans. and small dick problems
Mighty friend? You mean master?
@@bobbylow175 In some way, Yes the US has sat on top of Japan, and rightly so, she tried to battle the US and lost.
Mogami, Mikuma, Takao, Atago, Maya, Choukai? just for suggestions...
At the beginning of WW2 the USA had, through careful calculation and study, inadequately equiped its ships with anti-aircraft guns. Soon the US plastered it's ships with them. Based on Ukraine, plan on defending against and launching swarms of stealth drones in the form of missles, torpedoes, aircraft, and small boats.
Poko na ... Oh yess 👍
These ships look like it came from Star Wars, specifically ships made by the Galactic Empire.
Better design than Zumwalt which prices of $1.4Billion
USD 1.4 billion is around one Arleigh Burke. Zumwalt costs 4 ABs.
You sound like a dude from the land of the sicked prc. LOL
Will the JSDMF repurpose weapon systems from retired ships?
I am very sure these frigates were never copied .
If the SAMs provided can be quad pack in a VLS 41 cell, the Mogami should have an adequate point air defence… but it will have to be practically in between the ship it is defending and the incoming missiles… It also needs a CIWS of some kind…
As you point out, Mogami class has a lot of limitation‘s. It is as you state an anti-submarine warfare frigate. The only real practical threat it is designed to counter is the huge but inexperienced Chinese navy. The Chinese Will probably attempt to disrupt supplies and trade to, and from Europe, the US, and the Middle East. They have proven inept at managing carrier, battle groups, which have very short range. A large Japanese submarine force. It’s probably superior at local defense against their surface warfare navy. The only possibility of success for China lies in their large, noisy, and primitive submarine fleet. The new class of frigates are designed to counter that thread. Effectively China neutered.
So how exactly is the younger JMSDF more experienced in fighting wars than the PLAN? You also completely ignored the fact that China has the second largest destroyer fleet, most of which are very modern; more than 9 out of ten destroyers have AESA radars, for example. That's 100% more than USN's destroyer fleet.
Their carrier battle groups have a very short range compared to what? They've even conducted blue-water operations.
Explain how China's submarine fleet is primitive, and how it's 'their only hope'. You do realize that they've launched like, 20 large and modern surface combatants over a span of 8 or so years? None of those are China's 'only hope'?
They've got the previously mentioned second largest destroyer fleet, the largest submarine fleet, the largest fleet of frigates, and the second largest fleet of corvettes, all backed by a formidable maritime air force, and one of the most powerful Global Navigation Satellite Systems in the world (around 35 satellites in medium Earth orbit). Their median ship age is also the youngest among naval superpowers (13.8 years, USN is 23.3, and Japan's is 14.8).
Sorry, but I'm not convinced that China's down on their knees, shivering their timbers, just praying that they don't have to fight the Japs again.
the Mogami class could have done with a bit more displacement . . . 6,893 ton (unladen) & 8,205 ton (loaded) . . . should have featured iSMARTFuelCell® HYBRId™ full electric propulsion system . . . seriously needs to be armed with a 48-cell SYLVER A50 VLS in the forward bow section of the frigate, immediate aft of the front 82 MM main gun . . . able to fire anything from RGM-109B Tomahawk (Block IV) semi-active infrared homing land attack cruise missile & Exocet MM40 (Block III) active radar homing medium range anti-ship missile to MICA VL inertial guided surface-to-air missiles . . .
A.G. frigate displaces less and is arguably a better frigate, so I don't think Mogami not being large enough is the issue.
This ship looks like a middle finger to everyone
一柱擎天😂
韓国＜日本🤪
Philippines need's this type of ships as well for maritime patrol..
They're overpriced, over engineered and over-hyped. A more suitable ship for Philippines would be the Russian Steregushchiy-class corvettes.
@@definitelyfrank9341 if it's impossible to acquire a helicopter from Russia, then what to expect if the Philippines will try to acquire navy ships?
@@gerrybonono6672 It's not impossible because of Philippines' newly acquired leverage.
Now that US has stationed thousands of troops in multiple bases in the Philippines; if they sanction Philippines for buying Russian military products, Philippines can threaten to remove the American troops from their country.
@A Perpetual Guardsman with a flashlight I'd rather have good relations with my enemy than strengthen relations with my ally.
I think asroc are the best anti subweapon a surface ship can fire by itself!!