What really blows my mind is the casual way figures of the price of cars is just thrown around! £30k, £40k, £60k ...£100k! Where does this money come from, how much are people earning to be able to pay a mortgage , living expenses, bring up children & afford a vehicle of that price? As a pensioner I bought my transit for £6,000, insurance is £200 pa & road tax is £29pm & £100 of diesel will take me about 500+ miles. It starts first turn of key, keeps me toasty warm & gets me where I am going & every mechanic in the world can fix it & parts are cheap & available everywhere.
Put simply it's all *_on the never-never_* better known these days as leasing. The increase in the price of cars (of all fuel types) has pushed more people to financing cars both new and used (or should that be newly used). In effect the automakers have changed their business model from selling new cars for purchase to perpetually leasing new cars and releasing them onto the next few used owners (via trade-in sales). Basically they seek a more guarnteed income from deposit and interest revenue products than from the car itself, which is now as much as financial vehicle as a transportational one.
The list price is almost meaningless. The vast majority of cars are bought on PCP or they are leased. People are only interested these days in what the monthlies are going to cost them. A 40k car to most people means a monthly payment of perhaps £500, depending on lots of factors such as the PCP deposit they have or the annual mileage they need.
This is unfortunately the price of all new cars, not just EV's. Although EV's are a bit more expensive initially (even that's changing), they're much cheaper in the long run with running costs a fraction of petrol and maintenance being close to zero. They may even make us money when we can use bidirectional charging to sell power back to the grid during peak times. That's only a couple of years away. The other elephant in the room is that all cheap used cars were once expensive new cars. Oh, and compared to price price of a house these days, a new EV is practically pocket change. If we're going to be broke anyway, might as well drive something fun.
@@johnnyonlinethis is false. ICE are cheaper and depreciate slower than EV. EVs are cheaper to run but this is offset completely by sale price & depreciation. Second hand can be a sensible option.
Just a small point on the maths. If an EV being charged at off peak domestic rate of 6.7p per kWh is going to cost (according to the video calculation) 1p per mile to run, that implies you are getting 6.7miles per kWh. With five EVs under my belt I have never managed much better than 4 miles per kWh, and that would be in summer, downhill with a following wind. Realistically it's more like 3 to 4 miles per kWh, depending upon the road conditions. And public EV charging can still be crap, especially in the North of England. At one location near Warrington today I was pre-charged twice with £99 in order to unlock a charger that worked, and so far have only been refunded for one payment. The pre-charge assumed that my car battery was 180kWh capacity (at 55p per kWh) which is much larger than any traction battery available in a car in the UK. So, it's still the wild west at some locations because far too many public chargers have problems.
I've had ev's around since 2010 and I agree. Commonly 3mi/kWh is normal but in the winter and depending on use it can drop a long way form that too. I love it when they come out with the lines like "this 50kWh car will do 250 miles wltp" then try to back it up with "we all know thats optimistic but you should get at least 200" or other nonsense. For a start off you aren't going to run it flat because that would be moronic then on top of that 200 miles from 50kWh is assuming 4mi/kWh which is only realistic in very specific conditions. I wish they would be more honest and the reality is most small 50kWh cars on a motorway will be looking for a charger not much over 100 miles. If its the middle of winter and wet thats only going one way. Then they claim the charging based on 10%-80% or 20%-80% which means you're only going to have 60-70 miles on the next leg.
I agree. Calculations suggest that on a very cheap home tariff it will cost at least 2p per mile. But public charging is a whole other story - they absolutely fleece people and it can end up costing you up to double the cost of diesel.
@@darrenadams2640 It does, of course, depend - but yes, around 2p per mile on home charger (in the summer I get about 1.6p per mile). Public charging varies hugely - from something like 35p to 85p per kWh. I get between 3.4 and 4.4 miles per kWh, depending on the time of year. At 4.4 miles/kWh the 85p (I have never paid as much as that, but bear with me) rate would cost me 19p per mile. My old Diesel did about 45 miles per gallon on a good day. At £1.41 per litre, that gives me about 15p per mile - so the EV (at its most expensive) would cost a bit more than a Diesel, but not double - nowhere near. However, it is quite easy to find much cheaper prices even on public chargers.
yes, lots of misleading maths in this video. £5.45 / 300 miles = about 1.8p per mile, which for some reason Ped rounded down to 1p, and then using this flawed maths claimed that public charging is 20x more expensive when clearly it is more like 10-12x. Ok not the end of the world but it's important to do it correctly if you want to be credible.
I drive a Volvo ICE XC60 2.4L Diesel and filled up before a long trip. £90 of fuel in the tank. Once underway I noticed the expected range of my fuel, and that was 700 miles. No worries re fuel for the whole 374 mile round trip I was doing that day. Where is there an EV that can match these figures? and the cost of the car was £13,500 No where near the £20,000 + for an equivalent class of car. Admittedly it's now 10 years old but drives and runs perfectly with no major faults or degradation of fuel economy. I'm 72 years old now and I'm not expecting to change cars before I finally hand back my licence. EV's are not for me, No home charger as I live in a terraced house straight onto the street, no drive. One last thing, My car is AWD so quite good in snow and difficult terrains, has the usual Cruise Control, Traction Control and City Safety etc. All in all, It's a good car for me. and reasonably frugal on fuel and so the environment. No one will force me to change to an EV
I drive a 2012 Volvo V50 - i bought it new and for the last 12 years I have paid zero VED. I can fill it up and drive ~600 miles on one tank of fuel. VED renewal is due at end of Feb so I will get one last year of VED free motoring - after that, from the figures I have seen, I will have to pay £20 a year (until they decide to plug that 'revenue hole'). Forcing car owners to get rid of their dirty ICE vehicles for “zero emission” (no such thing) vehicles which are currently priced, in most normal citizens cases, beyond their incomes - that will drive car ownership down. Already their will be a generation coming along that will not know how to drive a car with a manual gearbox. Add to that, the future scarcity of cheap used cars (not priced over £5k or in that bracket - my first used car was £750 back in 1973) on the market for new drivers to buy as their first car, huge increases in VED for older ICE cars, increasing cost of fuel for ICE vehicles, huge prices for insurance for young drivers - just a few of the hurdles that future drivers will have to weigh up against affording other ‘luxuries’ or essentials when they set out in the world on their own. Their choice will end up as get a bicycle/electric scooter to get around their local area or rely on public transport to go further afield… Which is what the eco-zealots really want...
No one is forcing you to buy an Ev, you can still buy Petrols & Diesels and they will be on the market for a decade or 2 after they stop being sold. If EV doesnt work for you, dont buy one!
@@tonyrobinson362 Sometimes I think these TH-camrs don't live in the real world to be blunt don't get me wrong I've 9 cars myself but realize that a lot every day people as I've said earlier struggle with finding over 10k for a car.
ford fiesta, one of the best selling cars in the uk, cheapest entry level car was almost 19k before they stopped making them. Affordability means different things to different people. A brand new car is never cheap regardless of it being petrol or electric
Great explanation and examples but I’m still not convinced on EV. The main gripe is that the government keeps changing the rules to suit them. I don’t want to be forced to change my car or have to buy an EV. I have a 14 year old defender that I never want to sell. It’s my only car and daily drive and will last years and years and I expect will out live most EV. When I do want a 2nd car I want I’ll choose what I want not what the government thinks we want !
@@peterrolt6403 and don’t even get me started on the other stealth taxation paying fees for a few years on new cars and even if they are 2nd hand ie younger than 3 years the new owner has to cover it
They could change the rules on your current can and suddenly charge you a fee to drive in the city you live just because your current car is not green enough. Worrying about government changes is not woth the worry but you can guarantee the government will hit older vehicles harder with green polices in the future.
If say 12 million homes were running continously 7kW charges overnight 2 things are likely. 1. Prices won't be 7p/kWh anymore. 2. Grid/supply network will go t!ts up. If we get to a situation where ALL power use, transportation, heating etc is electric, we will have introduced a massive single point failure & be asking for trouble. Diversity of electric (all generation forms) natural gas, diesel, petrol, oil, LPG, hydrogen, coal, bio etc. etc. removes this.
As a 2 EV family we don't charge every night maybe one for twice a week the grid seems to manage with millions of people running their ovens hobs 10kw showers every evening at the same time the majority of home charging is done overnight when demand is very low. Ask yourself do all ICEdrivers fill up with fuel every night even when they don't need to, why would you assume EV drivers would?
The reason electric is 7p/kwh is because the grid has an oversupply of power, particularly between 23:30 and 05:30. However, smart EV chargers/tariffs can actually make use of oversupply during the day as well as night. Therefore, if I plug my car in at 12 noon for example, the app for my charger will give me a schedule of when the car is going to charge to make use of the cheap rate and this might be during 'peak' hours if supply is good (sunny/windy day is ideal). The main point here is that supply isn't going to be an issue; there is plenty of energy generation in planning and construction to more than accommodate the progressive increase in EV ownership. There isn't going to be a sudden uptake in EV ownership.
So I did the maths: According to the government website, in the U.K in 2022, people travelled 740 billion km, 86% of which were by passenger vehicle (636.4b km) The Tesla Model Y LR AWD gets 16.9kWh/100km WLTP, so assume 80% of that real world: 21,125kWh/100km. 636 400 000km / 100km * 21,125kWh/100km = 134 439 500 kWh if everyone used a Tesla Model Y and no-one was a passenger. That's 368 075 kWh per day Assuming everyone in the U.K charged only at home and only between 10pm and 5am, that's 52,6MW Looking at the Energy Dashboard U.K site, I'm seeing that just wind power alone was producing 14GW at 5AM today. Can you see an error in my calculations? This doesn't seem like an issue at all. Edit: I'm from South Africa, and we use the decimal comma, and spaces to group 1 000s.
Still one of the biggest issues for me is the fact if you pull up to a charger and 2 or 3 people are in front of you your looking a wait of 30 mins+ per car before you charge yours.
I've never had to wait for a charger, except if I could be bothered to use a supermarket charger. On the road, there are plenty of chargers available, and if one place is busy, then just go to one that isn't. There are chargers literally everywhere, you just need to find them.
Had an EV for 5 years and never once sat and waited for a charge. The simple trick is to get out of your old ICE mindset of running it to the fumes and then filling up as you then have no option but to wait. Stop with say 20% left and you have the option of moving on to the next one.
@@RichardWorton-f9g So what you are saying is the range shown is a load of rubbish as you need to recharge long before you *have* to? Whereas those of us sensible enough to not believe the BS about EV's can continue until we are on reserve, spend 3-4 minutes fully 'recharging' aka "filling the tank" and off we go. On a recent trip back from Inverness to South Warwickshire I didn't stop once. I cannot think of an EV that would do that type of distance. On arrival home I had to make an unexpected (and immediate) journey to Leicester. I did it on the fuel that was still in my tank. There and back. Good luck to you, and anyone who drives an EV, but they're not for me.
@@johnnodge4327As a relatively new EV owner but one that charges 99.9% from home, ive not experienced an issue finding a public charger free however given that only 19% of all new cars last year were EVs I do wonder what its gonna look like as EV ownership increases rapidly over the next 5-10 years.
you are correct if that happens. But if you have your own driveway and you can charge at home, then you ONLY need to use a public charger if you're doing a trip over around 300 miles. How often do you do that?
The management can charge at work, us minions can't. So I can only charge on my way to work or on the way home. That's more time of my life at a service station when I could be at home.
All staff can charge at my place of work free of charge there are currently no personal tax implications as hmrc don't class staff charging as a benefit in kind at the moment as long as all staff are included. I drive 50 miles a day for work so an EV fits my needs perfectly.
After my VW EV produced a fault, I found that there’s a shortage of technicians. My car sat for four weeks without work being carried out on it. Nearly two months in and I still don’t have the car back, I still don’t really know what’s going on with it. I am without a doubt going back to an ICE once this is resolved.
Don't buy a Land rover, my brother's diesel discovery developed an injector fault before christmas. They are due to fix it mid February! I don't think repair delays are an EV only issue.
Correct. All vehicles ICE or EV are having long repair times. There aren't enough technicians in the auto industry, as people won't work for the pathetic wages being offered. This is why I left, and got a job that pays twice the money, for 5 hours less per week, and I don't even get cold, dirty, or wet now.
@@the_lost_navigator7266 Land Rover problems are specific to that company, owned by Tata in India now. That are pretty well dead in the water and anyone who buys a newer JLR vehicle is being stupid. The writing is on the wall, people need to read it. Sad for the great motoring marques like these, but the fault does not lie with the customers. Many of the traditional auto manufacturers are in a downward spiral due to legislation and government meddling, but JLR were already on that slippery slope before any of this happened.
I’m not anti EV, but I am anti TAX. The ‘luxury vehicle tax’ is a huge scam. £40k is not a lot for any new car these days, let alone a new EV. I agree that EV owners should pay VED, but why such a huge jump between pre and post Mar 2017 vehicles?
The whole car tax system we have now is a complete mess thanks to years of tinkering and never applying the changes retrospectively. The whole system needs clearing out and starting again.
@@timtim4603 define "rich". In a street of former/current council houses near us there is someone with a Toyota BZ4X and that's over £40,000. I don't think they are "rich" but I guess that depends upon where you draw the wealth lines.
Just got an EV in Dec 24 for town use and a 30 mile work commute, come April road tax goes from £0 to £195, my other car a 2014 Avensis 2.0d will go from £35 to £40 what a mixed up mess the road tax has become.
The other issue you didn't raise with the charging network is that in my part of the country, most public chargers are in public car parks. So you have to pay a parking charge on top of charge for the electricity. What's more you can't leave your car all day blocking the space once your car is charged. So, you've gone to the beach for the day. You get there early, find a space with a charger, charge your car. Late morning you then need to move your car, however by 10:30 am all the car parking spaces are full. So you leave your family on the beach and drive around for hours trying to find a space!!!!
Depends on the type of charger. If it's a destination charger (ie slow charger) then it's basically a parking space which happens to have a charger on it for convenience. First come, first served. Stay as long as you need. If it's a rapid however, it could be someone's vital resource for being able to continue their journey and it's very bad form to block it once you have finished with it.
13:30 This makes sense if you own your own home and never plan on using a different brand of car with a different charger. But how do people who live in flats,busy city centres or people who rent charge their car at home?
In the last 25 years, I have owned 3 cars. Total cost, just £670, In other words, since I've recently sold my last car, just £2.23 depreciation per month on average, without a single breakdown over that time. I managed to retire 11 years early, primarily due to the savings I have made, by running older cars I can't really see myself purchasing an electric car any time soon. Not just because of the expense, and the eye popping depreciation, but also because of two key factors: I'm not prepared to pay up to ten times more for charging, when compared to those who can charge at home. And secondly, it must surely be obvious now, that there will never be enough public chargers, in time before new sales of ICE cars end. It's going to be chaos.
Another problem for EV insurance is that a small dink can compromise the confidence in the battery safety as the battery spans the entire bottom of the car.
Something not mentioned - aside from the pricing issue, public charging points are typically located some distance from immediate assistance, at the far end of carparks and retails areas etc., meaning a vulnerable person may have far more difficulties than filling an ICE car on a petrol forecort. The cables on the ultra rapid charges are thick and very heavy. There's no way my elderly mother would be able to manhandle one of those!
Depends on the location and charger. I’ve used them at moto services right next to the entrance and also the kem power chargers are on overhead bendy arms to carry the weight. I’d be more concerned with wheelchair access as they can be sited up on kerbs making it impossible
Times are changing. The days of lonely old rapids in isolated car parks are over. Where you do see rapids in places such as supermarkets or retail parks, they can't put them right next to the door otherwise selfish pricks just treat them as convenient parking spaces.
Great vid as awlays Ped. As a dedicated petrolhead, we have only recently dipped our toe in the electric water. An approved used BMW i3 for £15k. Octopus overnight charging at 7p, so around £3 or less for 160 miles. Perfect for all our local journeys. As you have pointed out, it all goes to sh*t if and when you charge out and about. 75p in a hotel the other day worked out at twice the price of petrol in an M340i! EV's have their place. But only if you can charge at home. We have to remember that people running existing cars is always better than building a new car and mining all the minerals that are required for the batteries. We just moved from mining oil to mining other chemicals! Oh and now the i3 is going to start having to pay road tax!
Fantastic car for its time! Carbon tub and recycled plastics went in to its manufacture, as I remember. I think BMW electric vehicles have not evolved so quickly since the i3 and i8 landed - truly revolutionary designs and manufacture….
This is actually very untrue. The carbon debt of building a new Tesla model Y vs continuing to run a petrol car breaks even after 3 years in the UK. Google carbon brief EV myths for the maths on that. Everyone can charge at home. See the governments guidelines on cross pavement solutions. Councils only able to decline if it's dangerous. Ie you can get a firm to install a device called Kerbo charge to facilitate this. You'll need your highways dept permission first but they should all be getting their heads around this ASAP. Guidelines were published at Christmas
It is horses for courses. This country isn't close to being in a position for the majority of cars to become EVs, and it won't be for decades, if ever. For years, I was driving a thousand miles a week, and I have no off-street parking. Electric was impossible. My circumstances changed a couple of years ago, and now I have an electric car because it is the best option for me now. Public fast charging is hit and miss, but with a BP subscription, I can usually find one of their chargers and avoid lots of large pre-authorisations sitting on my card for days at a time. They just bill me at the end of the month. Things work at the moment for me... We will see how it goes, but if my mileage goes up dramatically again, I'm going to have to switch back to diesel.
They are really messing it up with road tax again. Charging another 400 quid for premium EV . They did the same with plugin hybrids, which made me just have self charging. Why would you spend over 40k on bigger battery etc to be walloped for more road tax per year it doesn't make sense. Better to stay in old diesel or petrol as it's cheaper to run . I nearly stayed in my diesel cx5 as it was cheaper than my hybrid in 2022 .People are still going to stay in ICE for as long as possible due to all negatives that most of us will have with an EV
I have access to a salary sacrifice scheme, but I can't ever own the car I choose to drive. 3 years rent on a mid size SUV is around £12,000, then I have to pre guess the mileage I will drive each year, then I will get screwed if I dare to exceed that figure. I can only get it serviced where they say, and invariably that’s not at a garage that specialises in EVs. That’s as far as I went with switching to EV motoring. I now own a 5 year old RAV4 hybrid which is in good condition, having had one previous owner. It drives superbly, returns 50 mpg and is mine to do with as I please and drive as far as I need without having to encounter charger rage, or get fleeced for 10 - 20x the home rate. EV to me means daylight robbery at every turn. Until that changes, hybrid is as far as I will venture.
A lot of great truths but some staggering glossing over facts ! Speed of Depreciation cannot be over looked a Porsche Taycan will lose 60 % of its value in less than 12months with low mileage not 3 years ! Charging my Hybrid X5 at home has cost me an additional 1500 quid over the last 18 months for a small a 26 kw battery that at the moment will only run 28 miles in this cold weather. The infrastructure for public charging is pathetic with many broken or over subscribed chargers at every services unless you are further South. My car can only charge at 11kw. Max So public charging is non sense for me as it takes 5 hrs, but BMW do this to extend the charge life of the battery. Ridiculously expensive motoring for what are souless laptops with seats in. Why should we be forced to do this when the reality is the production of these cars is far more damaging than the UKs pathetic attempt to save the planet. Surely if we develop synthetic non polluting fuels we dont need to produce more and more cars but keep the ones in existence running rather than scrapping old cars ? I hate this tax on personal choice ! Keep up the good work none the less old boy thouroughly enjoyable videos well 9 times out of 10 anyway 😂😉👍🏻
Easy. A battery vehicle (not a hybrid, those are pointless) is about 80% energy efficient, meaning 80% of the energy drawn from the grid does useful work in the car. An internal combustion engine is under 30% efficient, meaning 70% of the energy put in to it turns to heat and noise. Bio fuel are energy intensive fuels, which means for every kW of energy the fuel delivers, it takes 2 or 3 kW for energy to produce. Then it's burnt at a 30% efficiency, causing more CO2 than burnt fossil fuels to start with. Electric cars on the other hand are so much more energy efficient, so they actually do reduce CO2 emissions. I can't see how you're spending so much on electricity, unless public charging, as I spend less than £500 per year to run my EV, which covers 18k miles per year.
@@johnnodge4327 I can only drive hybrids , whilst many journeys are short and i have averaged over 65 mpg over the last 2.5 years and 61% of my journeys have been Electric only . I have to and do often drive more than 200 or 300 miles in a day and no EV provides me a solution that does not need extended planning or even overnight stays which I cannot do. So your sweeping statement that Hybrids are pointless well not for everyone.
PHEV’s are NOT “ Pointless”! If you charge one up to get 30 miles of range and then leave home, do those 25/30 miles and then the petrol engine takes over you are completely correct..it is an expensive and inefficient idea. However…the way to use a PHEV properly is to charge up…then when you set off, go into SAVE mode which means the car now uses the truly free regained energy for low speed work, it always pulls away from standstill using EV mode and when in low speed moments,it uses only the EV battery so that in towns or car parks, Malls etc….you get the emission free use that actually helps air quality at point of use. If you have only a short journey to make…use pure EV…it makes cold starting and warming up a thing of the past and that is when a petrol engine is at its most inefficient…stand by your exhaust pipe on your next cold starting and tell me that is wrong! A PHEV offers a great deal of EV benefits and in my car, 15/17% of every journey is regained EV…and my 31 mile battery lasts me a week…doing 150/200 miles on average. Far from “ pointless”…just understand and learn to drive it properly!🫢🤔🙂
A youtuber has just done a study. He has taken a 3 year ev and looked at depreciation and the equivalent in petrol/diesel. The depreciation in EV is way more. Some have lost upto 50% of the on the road price. That is 3 years.
Every car has 40-60% depreciation over three years from new. Has been the same (other than Covid times) for the past few decades. They literally show you this in car magazines
An ICE cost of ownership is more than an equivalent EV, once all maintenance, fuel costs, and depreciation is factored in. If you're worried about depreciation, buy second hand, than someone else has taken that initial hit, same as an ICE car.
I live in Bristol and decided just to go for it and buy a Tesla Model 3 Performance. It was the best decision I ever made and even though my wall charger has recently broken, I’m still able to put 30+ miles on it overnight from a plug socket. I plug it in whenever I can and never really think about range when I’m going around the city. If I go on a longer journey then there’s the Tesla charging network which has been an absolute doddle and it’s taught me that taking 15-30 mins rest is ideal when motorway driving can be quite exhausting. Tesla buzz my phone when the next part of my journey can be made, so sometimes I’m only charging for 10 mins and off I go. Once you start driving an EV you very (VERY) quickly become aware of when and where you need to charge - it’s almost intuitive and really is not stressful at all. I miss having an engine car for the spirit of it - we all know that engine cars have character - but our Tesla isn’t without a personality and it’s comfort far outweighs all cars I have ever driven. A motorway journey is so easy when you double click the right stalk and the car just cruises. There is certainly a feeling of expedition and pioneering that you don’t always get with engine cars. You’re out there in a cutting edge vehicle and voyaging into the future of motoring. I won’t go back.
I'm very satisfied with my Tesla Model 3 SR+ after 5.5 years. I never missed performance, however there's been occasions when I wouldn't mind AWD. But that's only a few rare occasions through the winter. As long as I don't have to fight traction on ice and snow, RWD is more than enough for me.
19 percent of all cars sold in 2024 were evs and of that 50 percent were leased and company cars were 29 percent, the general public dont want them not yet anyway, what they should have done is brought out a plugin that would do 120 mile in the real world in winter then increase range every 2 years
Who do you think leases these EVs? Who do you think chooses EVs as a company car? Who do you think takes the salary sacrifice option to get an EV? Who do you think chooses an EV through Motability? It's the general public.
Interesting video, but I've got a few notes: EV3 is 400V architecture and £36k for the 375 mile WLTP range. The penny per mile calculation seems to be more like 2p per mile, making the Gridserve pricing 10-12 times the price, still a significant difference, but not the 20x suggested.
Second hand EVs is the way to go. We’ve just bought a 4 year old Cooper S electric with 26k on the clock for under £12k. It has loads of life left in it. It’s perfect for short trips. Longer trips we are keeping our petrol car. We have the luxury of a home charger and overnight charging. Our running costs have come down substantially. I believe that more people would consider EVs if the Government reversed the policy giving choice back to the public. Forcing people to move to just electric for new cars is too draconian.
It has to be forced otherwise the competitive pressure on the first car company that produced an EV would force it to give up. This would make every company delay as long as possible and then we wouldn't have all the investment and development that has lead to cheaper batteries like LFP and so on. All car companies have to invest and they won't want to do that for a future that's a "maybe". There's basically no choice about climate change - we can't bargain with the weather.
You have a set of circumstances that works for you which is great and a better price on the vehicle. However, that should be the driver of change - not coercion.
Kia Ev3 with 375 miles range, starts from about £36k not £32k that's gives 254 mile range, where can you get a new mg4 that does 329 for £22k you are quoting longest range but the price for the smallest battery.
@@TheVedabuss A non=plus question, all im saying is i dont like dictators i will buy what i want, not bullied into the fantasy that we will be driving a milk float in 5 to 10 years time, plus i probably wont be alive long enough to worry about it.
I can't get my head around all the maths involved let alone all the different apps needed to search for a charger, I'm only 60 and I've built lots of computers but software drives me mad. A phone is a phone to me it takes and makes calls. I don't need 10 apps to find a charger when there are lots of petrol stations out there.
In the cost of charging versus petrol there is (for now) also the excise duty on petrol that you don't have when charging at home. I suspect when the revenu of the excises on petrol will begin to drop, an excise duty on electricity used for charging ev's will make it's apearance (including when charging at home!)
Putting fuel duty on home charging would be difficult to achieve. Especially if the home owner has solar and battery, so can effectively charge with zero power from the grid .
They charge 20% vat on public charging and 5% on home electric. They won’t know how to charge you more for your EV at home, as it’s combined. What if you have solar too? No chance ..
Complete nonsense I am afraid. Far too difficult to put into practise and far too easy to circumnavigate. For example, if they make my wallbox report my charging in order to tax it, I'll just use the granny charger plugged into a 3 pin plug. How the hell can they tell its not just the kettle switched on. When excise revenue drops too far the only viable option is road tolls (pay per mile) and thay will apply to all users.
I'm sure that they would like to find a way to put duty on EV electricity, but it is hard to see how they can do that in a way that cannot be circumvented. I suppose they could try doing it on any cheap, overnight, electricity - the 7p that Octopus charge, or 4.5p that Tomato charge - but I suspect that there would be a lot of resistance to that - from, for instance, people with heat pumps that have been encouraged to put them in.
Am I right in thinking that EV manufacturers are still advising owners to keep their car's batteries charged between 20% and 80% in order to improve longevity? If that's true then your example of an EV with a WLTP range of 350 miles (but a real-world range of 300 miles) should be further restricted to a sensible 180 miles.
Charging to 80% is optional, for day-to-day use. If you need 100%, then you charge to 100%, simple ! The usable battery size is less than the full battery size anyway, so charging to 100% isn't bad
Yes and no. You can do that if you wish and I do because I've bought it outright. I have home charging so it makes no matter how I charge it. Range being irrelevant on a short work commute. If I can I might as well make my battery last even longer. But if I want to do a long journey I absolutely charge to 100% and run it down to near 0 if I can charge there (ie my families houses - we all have EVs and home 7p charging tariffs). And if you don't have home charging just do 20 to 100% routinely. With the new government guidelines on cross pavement solutions, hopefully everyone will be able to access home charging tariffs 👌 for convenience and price reasons.
You'd be foolish not to use 100% of the battery charge if you needed to - that's clear. But for day-to-day usage, does the 20% to 80% advice still apply? I am aware that battery technology has improved and that modern thermal management systems provide better longevity, but do EV owners generally stick to between 20% and 80% charge?
@@nigelsmith5807many just say screw it it's leased I don't care and do a daily use from 100 to 95% and charge it back up. Not good for the battery but not their problem. Google EV battery health with Dr Jeff Dahn from Canada electric vehicle society. He developed Tesla's batteries. Recommends using it 40-60% if you're doing short trips. As for what people actually do - I'm not aware on any surveys of the UKs 1m plus EV drivers tbh
12k miles per year. diesel £120 per month, electric £20 per month. Home charger was £1000, paid for in 10 months. Last manufacturers service £100. Oil change £0. Oil Filter £0. Spark plugs £0. Air inlet filter £0.
Great informative video but there are so many variables to consider. I'll stick with my 18 year old (182mph) flat 6 petrol guzzler until i depart the electrified world.
As an EV driver of 4 years with my only car being an EV - I agree with most of your general comments and thought it was a very balanced analysis. However, I would say that people who cannot charge at home tend to use slower/cheaper chargers more often (e.g. 7kW chargers) to charge whilst they are at work/gym/shopping etc.. And/Or there are subscriptions which reduces the cost of charging - notably Tesla charger prices are much cheaper than the Gridserve price you quoted, so the cost per mile is lower. Also there are apps such as Co-Charge which enable EV drivers to use other people's EV chargers on their driveway, so if your neighbour has a driveway/charger but you don't, you can still use that EV charger, it's a 'hidden' network of EV chargers. @petrolped You should also consider doing some interviews with Charge UK on the channel, you could ask your audience for ideas for questions?
Yes, I totally agree, as stated in the intro, a straight forward presentation of facts. I hope this goes viral among people considering buying an EV. I work in the motor industry, there is a lot of poor information coming from people within the industry.
Agree completely. Great video. Very fair appraisal of the current state of the developing market. I love the driving experience of an EV but completely understand that they don't suit many people given the current market and infrastructure. With home charging and only occasional long trips requiring public charging they are ideal. With no off road charging or daily trips requiring a public charger, much, much more challenging.
Surely the difference between the wear and tear, is that you can replace all of the main mechanicals over time and keep the car running but when the batteries give up the ghost, the main part of an EV in cost is the battery, so you might as well have another car. I think that they are so worried about this in Europe, that I believe they are looking at legislation to prevent combustion owners cars being repaired.
Great Video, a well-balanced critique. What really annoys me is the Government's attitude of saying on the one hand that we must get to zero emissions by 2035 (I think) but yet they are showing no schemes or initiative to encourage people to move to EVs. The first thing they do is put the Car Tax (or VED) to £190 and then hit you with a luxury Tax because let's face it most really good-looking EVs are £40,000+. Plus what are they doing about the infrastructure? Here in Northern Ireland, there are only about 60 of 150Kwh chargers at around the cost of £0.88p kwh and they have been put in by a local Grocery Retailer....where are the government and the car industry's involvement in this? I drive a Lexus ES Hybrid and I get on average about 43mpg which I think is great for a large luxury petrol car but what am I going to have to pay for an EV equivalent plus what price am I going to pay on Car Tax and Luxury tax?.....it just doesn't make sense. I would love to move to an EV but with the way Musk is carrying on with his right-wing politics and no encouragement from this Labour Government, I can't see this happening very soon
People are deluded if they think the "low cost home charging" can continue along with tax incentives to buy EV's. Haven't you heard the UK is nearly bankrupt, you think a government will just allow all that tax revenue from fossil fuel to be lost. After the honeymoon /honeytrap period all that revenue will be raked back somehow from the then increasing EV owners.
There aren’t any incentives now for home owners. Best not think about the amount the petrol companies make in profit while claiming subsidies from the same ‘bankrupt’ government!
@@workman122I think you are right so adopt early and bag the benefits while you can, I haven't paid road tax in 3 years, and running costs are a fraction of when I was driving a diesel. This will end at some point, as it must, but I have really benefitted from this incentivised period so getting an EV was real smart.
The reason for cheap ‘EV’ tariffs is to use energy when there is surplus electricity. I’ve seen Octopus charge my car in early evening rather than over night. It’s even charged during the day this summer. I was still paid the EV rate however.
The same happened with LPG that was cheap once now gone up. Problem with these Lithium Ion battery cars or vehicles is that they keep spo.ntaneously combusting. This has been happening for 30 years well before these batteries were placed in vehicles. A known fire risk and yet few seem to care about safety.
I see where you are coming from but it is hard to differentiate various electricity usage. There is always the question of implementability of any tax / law. I think there will just be a higher VAT rate for usage above a certain high threshold and or a higher road tax. With more EVs though there will be less money leaving the country.
Another interesting take on the world of getting from A to B. You have just reminded me exactly why I got out of EV motoring. Don't get me wrong I loved my i-Pace for comfort & speed and cost of running it for my wifes commute and going for lunch at a weekend within 150 miles radius. It just did not work for driving up North to visit family in a Scottish winters day in sub zero temperatures on a daily round trip of over 300 miles requiring two charge stops. The premium of £100 per month over the price of Insurance of our normal ice cars was a bit sore and charging away from home base always niggled as when we purchased the vehicle charging was free with the Scottish government scheme then was withdrawn when electricity prices rose dramatically with the Ukraine conflict not long after we purchased the car. The final nail in the coffin was the devaluation of the car by two thirds in two years bearing in mind it was a three year old car when we bought it and I had expected that the hit of depreciation would have been felt by the previous owner. How wrong I was.
You completely knobbled yourself as soon as you started on home charging. Very few home owners can install a charger even if they do have off road parking. A huge amount of older properties don't even have a high enough capacity mains power grid connection to do more than a plug in trickle charger. Your figure for rural areas having off street parking is way off. Even in the town I live in there is hardly any houses with of street parking as it's probably 90% terraced housing. Also why would you equate home charging as an advantage as you cant fill a diesel at home? Why would you want to when you can nip into a local garage on route, not 10 miles off route, and spend 5 minutes to fill it up.
Isn’t there an insurance problem. There’s a TH-cam contributor with a Porsche Taycan who shows on screen a letter from Porsche stating don’t park it in your garage ( apparently for fire safety reasons). I think he had a letter from his house insurers saying that they would not insure him with an EV on the drive. This, if correct, is worrying. Additionally the Taycan battery has Porsche warranty for up to 8 years or 100,000 miles. Once the warranty expires has the car much value? I would like to see EVs being successful but they’re still at the early stages.
I from the UK but live in Sweden and I have to say I am a big petrol head after being fortunate to own a number of nice ICE cars. However after owning two EV’s, now EV6 GT my latest. I think arguably I would never go back. I think the biggest issue in Blighty is firstly the charging network and secondly the huge amount of false information you hear and especially about battery degradation, charging and reliability. Living in the Nordics we don’t have the same feeling. Actually far from it and in the likes of Norway it is almost all EV’s being bought. In no way do I have any issues travelling around Sweden or actually in to Europe and remember Sweden is a big country. So if the UK got its act together on charging and a lot of the media stopped being negative. Then i think the up take would be huge. Just to put it into context Rory Reid borrowed an old Tesla modelS which had been a taxi and had over 400,000mls on it and was still working fine. I think in the UK you have a great advantage currently as prices much cheaper for you guys on second hand EV’s and should take advantage of it. 🤔. Plus not to forget on longer journeys you want a piss/food break and the car certainly has finished before I have. We have a lot of 350kw chargers over here so on cars like mine it is stupidly quick and then there is Tesla superchargers, which is now open to all cars. So charging for me on long journeys is never a consideration. Plus remember the more public chargers there are hopefully the more competitive it becomes price wise?? Also many companies now specialising in battery cell replacement and therefore less need for insurance companies to write them off. And unfortunately don’t get me going on what China will be bringing over soon, I think people will be staggered? But great sum up Ped and a good even balance that is more realistic. 👍
The public charging has been an issue but it Is going much better now. For decent 150kW+ chargers we have over 7000 now from 1700 2 years or 4 times as many. I expect another 5000 this year. We will be getting the Chinese stuff some no EU tax on them here.
@@johnbaker5533regardless of the EU taxes they are certainly becoming more popular here. Especially considering how the level of quality has gotten over the last 2-3 years. You can understand why not many German EV’s especially, are not selling in China and particularly if they are 3/4 times more expensive but not that much better in quality. Looking at some of the latest Zeekr stuff, (who by the way the parent company Geely, own Lotus, Volvo, Polestar) are bringing out some really nice cars. Good the UK is improving as certainly having many more 150-350kw charges is in all honesty the key to stop people worrying about range anxiety or time charging. Obviously the irony is the vast amount of time most people travel less than 200mls on a daily basis. 🤷🏻
Recently I saw a video of an enormous queue of weekend skiers with their Teslas, waiting for charging in some small town in Sweden, all of them on their way back home. They were just sitting there with their cars, along the streets, helpless.
@@titibobo2000 Yes - 20 chargers, all occupied and in use, thus dramatically reducing the quoted output from the chargers, thus taking longer to charge. And the queue was at least 50 cars long, with more joining. All probably running their heaters, because the outside temperature was about minus 15 celcius.
@@titibobo2000i can guarantee that is not the norm. Usually these small ski resorts are limited as middle of nowhere and probably during a busy skiing period. Hence why so many EV’s sold here.
WLTP stands for Way Less Than Predicted. True for ICE and EV. True for ICE and EV. I often get WLTP or better…because I learned to drive in the late 1970s and we didn’t have much cash so had to make every gallon (yes gallon) go a long way. Nice balanced video.
This is an important point - those of us who learned to drive in the oil crisis of the 70s were taught how to squeeze more mileage out of our fuel. Even easier with one pedal driving and even greater increase in efficiency. I too get WLTP on all non-motorway journeys except in the very coldest of conditions. When I drive over 70mph (which I would do almost always in previous ICE cars, but now virtually never) efficiency is hit hard. Permanent 9 points on my licence for 25 years with ICE cars - none since I've owned an EV. My insurance has gone down, too!
If you don't need more than 200 miles range on an EV, why haven't ICE cars got 20 litre tanks? BTW, Tomato Energy have 4.7p off peak, 12p mid peak and 22p rates.
What a dreadful, dilisusional, cherry picked diatribe that was. Please don't try ti have us believe you are on the fence, although you may like ICE & EV, you lean towards EV, so why? WLTP as you say is vastly over estimated but for you to not say that the ranges given is at least misrepresentation was a misstep on your part. There was no mention of numbers of chargers NOT working. Waiting times for a public charger. Lack of a queueing system (apparently) at public chargers causing arguments. You brushed over charging percentage (no less than 20% to no more than 80%) meaning that there is only 60% of battery capacity capacity usable. Time taken to charge, 25 minutes? Really? Plus waiting time....what is your time worth? Ask a mechanic or a plumber. You said if you were buying an ICE car with 700000 miles, you would have concerns, really? Even if it was serviced regularly. No mention of..... Parking restrictions for EVs in certain places. Tyre wear Brake Wear Impact on the planet. And so it goes on..... BTW this is from an EV Fan who would buy one tomorrow if they worked.
Great information as always, I've always been a massive petrol head, but converted a year ago to the family car being EV after getting an i4 m50, great car and love it for daily use, but some of these changes are likely to make me move back as it was a financial decison for me, cost to run so much cheaper than previous cars such as C43 amg estate. Items like road tax, especially lux tax as most family EVs I would want are over 40k and the BIK percentage going up so much it's likely to make me go back to petrol, government need to think this through, also cost of public charging is crazy and lots of hassle, every time I've had issues with no charger, or broken. I'm Lucky that 95% of my trips are under 200 miles and 6p charging at home or solar, but if that wasn't true I wouldn't have one
I still don’t understand your position. On one hand you have solar and cheap charging with relatively short trips, so you are happy with that, on the other you keep inferring that it may be cheaper you you to go back to ICE if the luxury car tax is introduced.
@geoffburgermeisterburge7212 I can understand what your saying here, I'm not saying it will be cheaper to switch back to ICE, though it might if I went sensible car, It's more as a petrol head the large gap made me switch and salary sacrifice with ultra low BIK, if the gap becomes smaller I would much rather have a nice V8 or V6 family car.
The depreciation is mainly caused by salary sacrifice/ business etc. if I save 40% on a new car, why would I buy a second hand one with 40% off list price, doesn’t make sense. So a contributing factor of the additional depreciation is a side effect of gov intervention. Additionally, EV makes more financial sense if you can charge at home, ergo have a house with a drive way. This limits the number of house holds and market share. At least until public charging is done on street and is cheaper than petrol/diesel etc. I would be willing to bet people who have a drive way are more likely to/ able to buy a new car, and so we have a different demographic between new and used.
2 quick points: 1. BIK will rise for all vehicles, and EVs will continue to be cheaper by a huge margin. By the time EVs are paying 9%, most petrol and diesel vehicles will be paying 30%-39%. 30% makes a huge difference to affordability, and makes EVs the obvious choice for anyone with a car allowance, even after the increase. 2. Salary sacrifice is not as common as you seem to think. Employers cannot pay less than the minimum/living wage, and that will be £23,873.60 from April. If a car is available at £500/month on salary sacrifice leasing or purchase, then that means your employees need to be earning at least £30K to be allowed to take up the offer.
Very on point and comprehensive! Top marks. As petrol head turned EV driver since 2019 you perfectly and susinctly explained everything. The only extra points I would add, noting you have a Zappi charger is that in summer you can do a significant milage with Solar if you have PV fitted at home. The other point is the servicing costs are dramatically cheaper as there isn't the consumables and wear items (clutches, etc). Also I might have mentioned the benifits of not drawing attention to yourself if you put your foot down with no noisy exhaust. Cleaner air. In the winter being able to remotely defrost and warm up the car is amazing. Not many ICE cars have this function but it's common with EVs as you don't need to have the engine running to make heat. I don't miss Scraping the ice off my old ICE car!
Great video pete, now for a dose of reality i think that was missed Whether you charge at home or elsewhere, and you religiously ensure 10% charge always minimum, so let's take 300miles (not many with that range and especially in winter), that gives 30miles You have an emergency, so example need to get to a relative who is more than 30miles away, you have to charge the car, but due to bad weather no electric available in area, what do you do, this is not that uncommon in uk In a petrol/diesel, you can get someone to bring a can of petrol or diesel if the worst of situations arises, you can't do that with ev Do you see the issue? But say electric is available, you have to then think well it's not just getting there, how about getting back or back to a place where I can charge the car which means more time added to getting back rather than just driving home! Depreciation is not good, because someone, mostly lease companies now have to cover this, and that means many of these companies going out of business I think This whole 10-80% think well that means if 300 is max, thats 60miles less immediately, and in winter probably 100miles potentially So 200miles, but then charging the car at home, you have 10% left and want to go somewhere that night as some one has invited you and it's 60miles away, normally you would jump in car and go to fuel station and on your way, but ev, you need to now charge it to cover minimum 120miles if your feeling lucky, again not practical Finally, I have never come across an ice car having to turn off the heating to get more range, yet the other day in fog, an ev was turning off its lights until people flashed them, and yet turned them off later, were they saving electric by having the lights off? In the UK ev cannot work, like you mentioned, more than one car on drives, with those that have a drive, urban areas, where an ev would make sense for short journeys, but then if they want a long drive the range anxiety, it's just senseless The ev forces you where to stop whereas with a ice car you can choose where to stop, simple as that So there you go, my thoughts EV will not work, maybe for 30% like Toyota ceo mentioned, but for everyone else, hybrid, alternative fuels and hydrogen as the obvious options Oh and as one final thought, if every car was EV, the grid would not cope, it would cost trillions not billions to implement the infrastructure and still have the issues of charging.... Finally, charging times, this can also be a big issue at home, as cars with bigger batteries taking 15hrs to charge !
As you do over 100k miles per year and live in an off grid cabin out in the back of beyond you're probably better off sticking with your diesel for now ⛽️ 👍
What a load of crock. I'd suggest EV drivers are more likely to have full capacity in their "tank" than petrol/diesel owners. Best tell the national grid then that there's a problem as they've said there isn't one with capacity, but guess you know more than them.
I’m a massive petrolhead (I’ve got a McLaren 12c, Ferrari 355, Honda NSX and BAC Mono) but my KIA EV6 GT that I’ve had for 2 years is the best overall car I’ve ever owned. It’s fast, comfortable, reliable and is genuinely huge fun to drive. Sure cost is an issue till cars like this trickle down through the second hand market, and public charging if you can’t mainly charge at home is both expensive and not plentiful enough but it’s improving rapidly. The cars are already brilliant though. Car enthusiasts have nothing to fear if they are already this good!
There are a few things putting me off. Firstly, to get an EV with an interior that meets the quality of my 15k used Audi, I would have to spend well past 60k. Not only that, but there are currently no EV estates as far as I'm aware, so I couldn't get myself and my bike to the alps. And when I'm driving to the alps, I don't want to stop to charge every few hours because I would never make it in one day. At the moment, an EV is just not even in the conversation for me.
Not commenting on the charging or price, though regarding the latter there are some great used deals on EVs now, but there are a few estates, starting with the MG5 (at the cheap end) to the Porsche Taycan Turismo (slightly more pricey!). There’s also the Volkswagen ID7 Tourer, the BMW I5 Touring and the Audi A6 e-tron Avant.
My Jaguar i Pace cost 26k. It's 2021 with 17k miles and the interior is incredible. Heated and cooled seats, HUD, 360 cameras, heated wheel AND windscreen. Everything is proper calfskin leather. Absolute bargain. Even during the cold snap I'm seeing 255 mile range. I saw 265 with 10c temps with no heater on
The "expensive car supplement" is a prime example of fiscal drag. It was introduced in April 2017, set at £40,000 and hasn't been changed. It really needs to be changed because if you don't change it then logically speaking we will get to the point where every single car that's sold will be classed as "expensive". It should have been changed every year based upon some market data for average car prices.
Thanks Ped, great video. One aspect you didn’t mention is ongoing maintenance costs. I have an EV and it is serviced every two years and the cost is far cheaper than my old diesel.
Same here, always the same deal- a quick checkover and new AC filters. Also a check on the brakes, make sure they aren't starting to rust since they're barely used.
Just don't buy a Jaguar. Pricing no different from a petrol car. In 2 years I'm looking at a £960 bill because they say they have to replace the brake hoses. If I was doing that myself I can do it for £200 max, all in including fresh brake fluid. Taking a 3 year service plan knocks £300 off though so this time I'll do it but after that I'll do my own servicing
My Grandfather saw his first car when it needed a man running ahead with a red flag (prior to 1896), The first Filling Station in the UK was opened in 1919, some 23 years later. When you look at the progress of EVs charging it is so very much better.
@@shortfattoad7317 I will clarify for you. My Grandfather was born in 1887, he was relating to me his earliest memories during conversations in the 1970's , when I was in my twenties. He remembered the event of the first car to pass his house as it was so striking at the time. He had some disturbing stories of his time on the Western Front as a stretcher bearer also. I presume you can remember events from your early years.
You've done a great job explaining it all but it is all still way too complicated, people haven't got time to research and study volts, kilowatts, amps, real world mileage etc and i've seen too many videos showing how complicated it is to charge when out and about, different apps for different suppliers, and then chargers not working etc etc. For people to adopt EVs it needs to be simplified to the point were it is cheap, easy and stress free to get on the road and just drive. Why don't road side chargers just accept credit cards? The global payment system we all have in our pockets. No you have to download an app, link it to the charger, then pay through the app, and that's if you get a signal! Not to mention queuing for a charger or the time it takes to charge depending on what charger it is. Utter madness. The only way it works is as you say charge at home, off street parking, and local journeys hmmm almost like a 15 minute city plan...
Battery life - if the car Is used then expect a loss of 10% capacity in 10 years. It will continue as the car gets older and you can't rebuild the battery but you can replace it. At vast expense. This looks like a market to be developed so 2nd hand batteries can be acquired and fitted for a better price than now. That will need better standards of build and life of 2nd hand batteries that is accepted by the public - a certified scheme if you like. The worst thing would be to get a damaged battery as that is when fires start.....
Batteries will outlast the car. The batteries will then be used in second life projects like powering stadiums (Nissan leaf ones currently do this). Then you recycle them and use them in a new EV. They need to make the rest of the car last this long!
Average car is scrapped in the U.K. at about 140k miles so on average the battery will outlast the car. Agree with your points about a market for second hand batteries, although there are already some specialists that can replace cells / controllers
Thanks Peter for your insight on this but I will stick with my petrol car for now , even tho I have off street parking I would not want an EV purely for the reason of the mine field of charging either at home or publicly the difference in pricing and road tax . Not to mention depreciation and the blandness of these EV cars truly make them so unappealing to petrol heads.
The minefield of home charging saves me almost £2000 a year. Pretty pleased with that. Despite regular trips to family across the country (we're in Newcastle, have family in Blackpool and Scarborough) I rarely ever have to charge anywhere but home. We all have EVs now and share our charger with visiting family. Super cheap 7p charging, and super convenient.
I enjoy watching videos from across the pond but I really do not understand why you guys keep referring to EVs as BEVs…are there any electrical vehicles without a battery? Sounds redundant and unnecessary to me.
Very fair there, Ped. I went to the trouble of getting a driveway built and am reaping the benefits, our 2019 Kona (bought last year for £13k) can be run for less than 3p/mile on home charging, with a 220 mile range even in the depths of winter. For motoring on a budget, if you have a driveway then getting a used EV is an absolute no brainer IMO. But...without a driveway I don't see any benefit. Unless you have plenty of money and a green conscience I don't see the point, it will cost you more and be more inconvenient to boot. This is the biggest problem the government has to overcome if they want to get people without driveways out of petrol & diesel cars, make residential public charging cheaper & more convenient.
@carlgrainger2053 I mean, sure, a push bike is better of course, but even not talking about the CO2 reduction, there's still an obvious lack of locally polluting gasses which cause untold respiratory diseases. It's not a magic bullet on fixing climate change but it's a damn good start on that road.
Why would you have a concern over an ICR car engine at 50k miles? Our last car we had for 10 years and covered over 225k miles and is still going strong and over 250k miles. Current (plug in hybrid) car is at 34k (13 months old) miles and is under warranty until 2029. Plan to run it to around 250k miles again.
I think he meant he would have similar concerns over an ICE engine. Which is pretty accurate. At 50k miles, your ice engine isn't concern free. It has wear items, it needed regular servicing etc. Neither is the EV it has battery wear, and it has suspension and wear items too. Its equitable in items of concerns. Be it ICE or EV.
I'm noticing more and more chargers without cables. Yes, there are a lot installed but many have had the cables cut off for copper theft, especially higher power DC, heavier gauge.
Great video PP, I think this one will do good numbers! I’m 4 years in now with my first EV, planning to change our other car (currently ICE) for a Renault 5 E-Tech later this year. I completely agree with you that being able to charge at home makes owning one very easy, I completely understand why people that can’t will be worried about the 2030 mandate. Some of the anti-EV propaganda out there is unbelievable though, complete nonsense.
I get or exceed the wltp range of 273 miles of my MG ZSEV for about 2/3rds of the year. In fact in August 2023 I got the WLTP range fully loaded with 4 occupants (2 adults, 2 teenagers), including a Thule Roofbox travelling from London to Cornwall. In winter on short journeys ( so no tine for the battery to heat up) in minus temps, its down at circa 200 miles. I have heating and cooling on as and wgen I need it. I will nornally drive on ECO mode unless there is aby reasin not to. Motirway speeds are usually 65 mph, which you often would find difficult to surpass anyway due to traffic conditions, congestion , road works etc etc. Hammering it as fast as you can just means you het to the next hold up , set of lights quicker and spend longer there.
Last week, as a country, we apparently had one week of gas supply left which is used to create electricity most of the time (notwithstanding a small contribution from wind if it’s blowing). No one seems to be connecting the dots that EVs (ignoring the reality that they are environmentally unfriendly until about 60000 miles and excluding the slave labour problem) are only any use if we have enough electricity. For the time being, besides anything else, splitting energy reliance between gas and petrol seems wise. In the end it’s about where does the power/energy come from. Edison understood this when he set up GE.
Renewables may have been a small percentage 10 years ago but average for GB over the last year was renewables approx 40% of total and fossil approx 30%.
@@bordersw1239 Like an EV has effectively offset its manufacturing carbon footprint in less than 3 years. Or charging an EV on a gas powered grid is still lower carbon than burning fuel in an ICE vehicle, because the engine is so much less efficient than a huge power station. Or that renewables make up about 40% of the UK's electric generation, so EVs produce much less CO2 per mile than an equivalent ICE vehicle.
Wonder how I drive my EV using wind power then. Ripple energy pays me each month for the wind. Not like we live on an island with wind 😂😂😂 you do know it takes a lot of electricity to generate petrol in refineries right? Like a cities worth? Please stop trolling..
He’s conveniently forgotten to mention the absolutely grim pollution in cities. Absolutely rank and unliveable in certain areas. Centre of London tonnes better these days but still a way to go….and the answer to the gas issues is don’t rely on foreign imports where they can have us by the balls. Get self sufficient with nuclear, renewables etc. win win we don’t need their oil either.
You made the comment that EVs are written off more readily than ICE vehicles, but for cars under 5 years old, numbers are that ICE are written off twice as likely as an EV, 1.8% vs 0.9%.
A well balanced analysis. We run two EVs - an 8 year old Nissan Leaf which we use as a run-around and a 1 year old MG5 which is used for long journeys. Contrary to media reporting, range has never really been an issue, where as access to public chargers occasionally is. In its 8 years, the Leaf has never failed despite the fact that is driven through 6 inches of mud and cow dung twice a day every day, across fields, and through flood water, sometime several feet deep. Running costs are a tenth of our old petrol and diesel vehicles but we do have off-road charging and solar PV. Would we go back to the ICE? No - the disadvantages of EVs are far outweighed by the benefits.
My employer will not do Salary Sacrifice due to the capital required cyclevto work is their limit. Severe depreciation unexpected by leasing companies is big trouble when the lease ends and the cars enter the used market where the losses not predicded at purchase come home to roost finance has to be settled at some point. For the right use case EVs are terrific and cheap to run if home charged. We are still 10 years away from true price parity and range/ charging being good enough not to cause compromises.
Tesla do charging as low as 24 Pence per kWhr, if you find the right location and have the Tesla app. You don't even need a Tesla to take advantage of low cost Tesla charging, you just need to use open to all Tesla Superchargers. Away from Tesla, many changer operators give lower cost charging on a subscription, Ionity is 46 P/kWh IIRC.
Thanks for the interesting video Pete. Regarding the Road tax & Lux tax from April, it would have been useful if you included what these taxes are for an ICE of same purchase price. In addition, how much would an equivalent ICE to an EV3 typically cost to run per mile as a comparison to the 20p estimate for the EV3 being rapid charged. I suspect the EV3 may still prove cheaper to tax & run, even with these additional taxes on EV’s?
@2:30 You're highlighting cars that are over 18k/20k. My BMW petrol 330i was 17k back in 2020 and I know which I would prefer. EV's have crazy depreciation so it does not make any sense to actually buy one using PPI from a dealer as the balloon payment would be far higher than what they would actually be worth so you end up taking out another PPI deal. I think you have to consider what the cost would be, between EV and ICE, of having to replace an engine or an EV battery. Engine is much cheaper. If you have a minor shunt which damages the EV battery, then you're looking at a complete replacement of the battery which can run to several 10's of thousands if you are out of warranty for the battery. EVs aren't quite there yet for me ( inc the range ) so I'm sticking with ICE.
Not sure how a minor shunt would damage the battery, anymore than such an event would knacker an engine, you’d have to be incredibly unlucky and the likelihood of having to replace the battery is vanishingly small (the costing you give for a replacement is also excessive given how battery prices have nosedived lately); EVs in general are much cheaper to maintain. Of course fine if you want to stick with ICE but I’m not convinced your reasons are valid.
Insurance would make it a write off and you'd get an estimate of it's worth and be able to buy an equivalent age on second hand. With gap insurance you'd get new for old. Do EVs have worse depreciation than equivalent petrol versions? People say so but I'd like to see the maths/ proof. Flip side , if this is true - it's the fleets that are taking that - and they are happy to because of the BIK tax savings EVs get the leases are still dead cheap. And we benefit by getting second hand bargains on EVs. Yay.
Have you seen how much BMW charge for a new engine, let alone the 20 hours work to fit it? A 2017 car needing a new engine will be a write off, simple. If a battery is damaged because of an impact, then the car is a write off anyway, as the battery is in the middle, so a long way from the main impact zones. Any side impact is an instant write off anyway, so again the car will be scrap, even though the battery will likely survive and become a second hand part.
Great, informative video. We've currently been leasing an Ioniq 5 for the past two and a half years. We do around 12,000 miles a year. Swings and roundabouts. Good - £5 to fully charge with OVO overnight; the charger paid for itself within 8 months; charge at home is great - arrive home, plug it in, charged by the following morning. Bad - range, guoted at 310 is still a problem for long distance driving e.g. 100 miles to the airport. Driving on the motorway at 65/70 mph kills the range; for a 200 mile round trip to the airport by motorway gives a range of 230/240 miles!! You have to plan ahead a bit and find a charger beforehand and allow 30 mins for a top up. Local driving around town - range is around 280. If you drive a lot of small, local runs then they're great. If you regularly drive above 200 miles round trip, then not so great as 'not at home charging' is expensive.
Couple of things that you need to mention is.. Servicing costs on EVs is so much cheaper. And warranty normally 8 years on an EV battery 6 years on the drive train and 3 years on everything else. Oh an other thing is leasing EVs are often cheaper to lease and you have no depreciation worries.
I've been waiting for electric cars to be a viable alternative for decades. The battery developments we've seen in the latest years, more than anything else have made it possible.Great to see someone finally addressing how different the owner experience can be if you are able to charge at home, versus if you aren't. As for the cars themselves, they suffer from the same issues as most new cars, as driver engagement is pushed further down the list of priorities, cars get larger, heavier, and catering to a single form factor: SUV. The only thing missing from your analysis, IMO, is the weight issue, as this still affects EVs more than conventional vehicles, and the the added expense in tires, as EVs, due to the higher weight and instant torque need more expensive tires, and wear them out faster than conventional cars.
Our EV has done 12k miles on the tyres so far, and only worn them down by 2mm. It's looking like they'll last another 24k at this rate, which isn't bad for a 2100kg car with over 325 HP.
Nice balanced piece. WLTP is just as bad for ICE. How many actually get the MPG in real life, Some do some don't. EV wise over 18 months I have yet to drop to WLTP for E-Niro (283). Worst 290 miles, best 314. Yes cheap to charge at home & more expensive away from home. But you have to balance the 2. Bit like petrol @ supermarket & then @ brand names. When working out average costs.
This is so true reference ICE MPG. To make things worse, often the MPG readout is optimistic, claiming more than is actually being achieved. My diesel Audi claims 37 MPG on the display, but working out the miles travelled from the fuel I've put in shows it's optimistic by nearly 4 MPG. Even then the optimistic figure is still well short of the manufacturer's claimed MPG. All EV testing is done on a level playing field, so a direct comparison can be made between vehicles, but the WLTP should be regarded as a guide. We've exceeded the WLTP of our EV on occasion, so it's definitely not impossible to get it, but the weather needs to be warm, and the roads need to be pretty flat, and speed needs to be kept to a minimum, oh and acceleration needs to be normal, not EV fast.
Try as I might , I almost always tune out after a few minutes of listening to any video on EVs . The mind numbing explanations of KwH, AC/DC, charging rates, range etc. etc. Just isn’t for me. I buy a car as much for the enjoyment of driving as I do for practical transportation. I know enough about EVs to realise they are not for me. I wish governments would stop interfering in people’s ability to chose and stop trying to shame people into thinking it’s all for the good of the environment, it’s not, many already know what this is really about.
When EV cars were first talked about they were going to “save the planet” . Well that never happened. The main culprit (as we all know) is heavy industry, but governments across the globe seem to have conveniently stuffed that one under the carpet. The production processes in the manufacturing of EV vehicles is definitely not green even though the end product may well be classed as green. Everything is wrong, covered up or lied about. You most surely gave a fair and balanced view based on your opinion, and I thank you for that. I did not need anymore convincing of my dislike of the EV motor industry, but it’s a bit stronger now. Cheers Pete 👍
Wasn't there a study that showed earths temperature has always been up and down, we are adding to it but hardly making a difference and will happen either way
@UnderWarranty And the planet has always been fine 🙂 . Let's just hope HUMANS are more hardy and robust than dinosaurs. Otherwise, whatever inhabits the earth next may be running their vehicles on OUR squeezings.
@UnderWarranty Or with the money I save on not buying petrol, diesel, injectors, dpf's, clutches, flywheels, egr's, intake manifolds, scr's, wet belt and timing chain failures, mechatronic units.................
With charging access I know of a lot of people that might not have chargers AT work or home but once every other week when they need to charge there's public points in a carpark or store nearby or just around the corner of their house and they just charge there at 11kW. It's still more expensive than at home obviously and 6p is VERY cheap but usually it ends up being 40-50p per kWh. If there is a need, a lot of cities and town you can request they install these low energy public chargers, Win-Win. Income for the city with a low installation cost and you have a charger you can use. Also should be noted that a lot of people that live urban lives don't need or want a car, and those that they're usually comfortable enough to rent a separate parking space or just pay whatever it costs to charge. But it won't be more convenient in 100% of usecases indeed.
Im a two EV house hold with one charger and never needed to charge both cars at the same time just plan a head and even if i did just run out the granny cable 😊
There is a massive amount of difference between a 60k mile EV and a 60k ICE. You get service history with ICE. EV? You have no idea of how the battery has been looked after.
@@johnbaker5533 Easier that an ICE, because there's no way of telling if the engine is going to drop a valve, or suffer some other expensive failure at any time outside of a very short warranty.
Excellent video Ped. I've just bought a 25 model VW ID4. What a car. 282bhp, 77kwh battery. Range over current freeze not brilliant, but still showing 200miles. I use Ovo as my home charge. Charge anytime of day for .7p a kwh. On average I'm paying £3.50 to charge back up to 80%. If you have the right setup an EV makes an excellent choice
@@PetrolPedcan’t believe you dont have off peak at home man. Would defo weigh that one up. Our house leccy is not too dissimilar than before the car despite using triple the leccy we used too.
The difference in peak prices is minimal, often only a penny or 2. The cheaper off peak outweighs it even just on running dishwashers etc in off peak times. Talk to EV Man and get him to do some man maths for you on his whiteboard of truth.
We're with Eon, on an EV tariff. We pay 6.7 P/kWh 00:00-07:00, then 24.42 P/kWh the rest of the time. We do have solar too, but we put all heavy consumption items on over night, so reducing our daily electricity expenditure, and maximising the energy we export, which we then get paid for. We effectively run our EV for 18k miles per year from the money we make on our electricity export payments.
@@johnnodge4327Well done. That has to be the perfect setup. It's just such a shame that so many drivers without home charging options won't be able to achieve all of the benefits of owning an EV.
25:3625:36 I love this subject so much as its so variable. I have owned an ev for 3 years now. I love it, love its drive its performance. But one thing I will not do as I see a lot is I won't get onto a forum and talk like they are 100% for everyone. I also fit EV chargers. I find that it's the just the retired person who has had or got a pot of gold and is lucky and lives comfortable, so it's not an average family. They always come back with I don't have that trouble, or it's good to rest after a trip so waiting and charging for over an hour is no problem in there life as they have all the time in the world. My ev estimated 239 miles has never ever achieved this. Infact it has a winters and summer mileage. Winter is a huge drop in range and I am talking 60miles depending on temp. I totally agree charging at home is the way to go and like you I am very lucky I have 2 chargers one for economy 7 charging and one only using solar. So I can run my ev free more or less for 7 months a year as long as I charge from home. The only draw back is the solar charger wears out more that the one connected to grid due to its contactor dropping in and out in poor cloudy days. Second for us like you said is charging outside your home, it's very expensive. The country should consintrate on fast dc chargers as ac really is a waist of time unless you want to spend 6 hours shopping in tesco or another supermarket. One other issue I have is towing. How will I tow my twin Axle caravan if i cannot use a ice vehicle. Oh I could use one of the new pick ups or new ev vans, towing distroys ev battery range. Also ev charging in areas we visit are non exsisting, and how do I charge my vehicle with a huge caravan behind it. Of course I don't tow it every day do I. But we do use for quite a few months of the year. Going back to what you said about, you would not do many long journeys a week. That's a possibility, we live in midwales a part I know you visit when you visit moggie. Now if I work in Telford my car would need a charge every evening ready for work. Now what about my wife and my 2 kids all with evs and who have to travel as well. So we have 4 evs at my home all needing charge for work. So now my home has only single phase. How do we charge a four vehicles even at 1 am in the morning all taking 7kw. I tell you something, I have 2 chargers and the DNO have only given me concent to run the second charger at 50% because it's to much load being used at my home which is near 100% all electric. Grate living rural lol. So now are going into another problem area which know one talks about as we normally only have one ev. So with many homes in many areas with only 60amp supply's and with homes going away from focil heating to heat pumps so another huge load from the supply. Another issue which is arrising is that many homes and farms are having huge solar systems fitted and that's great but another isue is arrising which is over voltage on the network. This is causing many ev chargers to stop working as they are set to the grids max of 253volts ac. If a charger sees 253v for more than 10 minutes then it will reboot. This also happens to solar inverters . So we have many issues ahead of us. Long trips cause no end of issues eith our family life. My wife wants to go back to a diesel because most long weekend trips with have always end up in huge waiting times and issues from range .then finding a charger that does not work is a huge pain. One weekend trip we had was a charging time of 5 hours for a journey of 9 hours in total. The added cost as well for each stop as we would always have another coffee or bite to eat lol. I am fighting to keep my ev, I think we will keep it for local journeys and have a diesel for our towing and trips. But I love my EV
Luxury at 40k 😅 Luxury should start at 80k. The average family vehicle needs to be a large sedan like model Y or the kia ev9 or the hyundai ionic 9. Personally, I wouldn't buy the early evs because of charging speed and build quality. Here. In states California was talking about ev tax because they weren't getting the amount of gas tax because of all the evs. So governments and states will always find a way to get your money.
We do run an older EV, one that's probably only worth about £3000. It's a 2017 Renault Zoe ZE40, we bought it at a year old and we've put 100,000 miles on it, it now sits at 110,000 miles. It is what it is and isn't what it isn't, I wouldn't take it beyond it's range of about 120-140 miles but that figure hasn't really diminished in the last 8 years, it's had no major repairs beyond MOT stuff like brakes and tyres, and I don't think we've even serviced for about 4 years. It costs less than 2p p/mile to run, or often free from our solar panels, and as a second car to our long range eNiro it's absolutely perfect.
@@mytefor depends on what you call "cheap" you could buy a newer Renault Zoe with 250 miles of range and our 6kW solar system with a 10kWh battery for less than £25k...plenty of people spend that just on a car.
You can't not be unbias on EV's, they are government mandated which requires the use of FORCE. Ideas so good we're being FORCED to buy them. Home charging also will be much more expensive than you claim as Ed Milliband is going make damn sure you pay through the nose for home charging.
Great video as usual Ped! Yesterday my wife and I picked up a Corsa E Ultimate. 3k miles on the clock, just over a year old, every option including the metallic red paint, for £15k. We’ve found there is a company called Tomato energy who is offering 5p per kWh overnight, with 2 other cheaper times during the day at 14p, and the remaining day still competitive at 23p. We’ve just moved from a PHEV and we’re excited to see how our EV journey goes over the next few years. Hoping to keep the Corsa for a long time!
Very nicely done overall. Just one quibble with your maths: Public ultra-rapid charging is usually about 82p/KWh max - I have seen this dropping below 80p recently but we will go with the higher figure. Using your figure of 6.7p/KWh at home, 82/6.7 is just over 12 times as expensive, not 20 times - and that's worst case. I'm on 7.5p and, taking public charging at 79p, that's a multiple of only 10.5 Also worth noting: Provided you can charge at your destination, you need only top up as much as necessary to get there, you're very unlikely to be brimming your tank on the public network. Any car can plug into any 3-pin domestic socket and charge, albeit slowly. But, if you're charging over night, it does not really matter how slowly.
My Ford Focus Diesel takes 5 minutes to fill and will do 650 miles (only slightly less in Winter) so until an EV does that they aren't worth having. Also the figures for EVs sold last year are completely fake as most are pre-registered by dealers to avoid fines and are all on Auto Trader as used. They have single figure mileages on them and discounted considerable so indicating just how desperate dealers are, to give such huge discounts rather than pay Government fines for not meeting EV sales targets. Also why are they all so downright UGLY!!
What really blows my mind is the casual way figures of the price of cars is just thrown around! £30k, £40k, £60k ...£100k! Where does this money come from, how much are people earning to be able to pay a mortgage , living expenses, bring up children & afford a vehicle of that price? As a pensioner I bought my transit for £6,000, insurance is £200 pa & road tax is £29pm & £100 of diesel will take me about 500+ miles. It starts first turn of key, keeps me toasty warm & gets me where I am going & every mechanic in the world can fix it & parts are cheap & available everywhere.
Put simply it's all *_on the never-never_* better known these days as leasing. The increase in the price of cars (of all fuel types) has pushed more people to financing cars both new and used (or should that be newly used). In effect the automakers have changed their business model from selling new cars for purchase to perpetually leasing new cars and releasing them onto the next few used owners (via trade-in sales). Basically they seek a more guarnteed income from deposit and interest revenue products than from the car itself, which is now as much as financial vehicle as a transportational one.
The list price is almost meaningless. The vast majority of cars are bought on PCP or they are leased. People are only interested these days in what the monthlies are going to cost them. A 40k car to most people means a monthly payment of perhaps £500, depending on lots of factors such as the PCP deposit they have or the annual mileage they need.
This is unfortunately the price of all new cars, not just EV's. Although EV's are a bit more expensive initially (even that's changing), they're much cheaper in the long run with running costs a fraction of petrol and maintenance being close to zero. They may even make us money when we can use bidirectional charging to sell power back to the grid during peak times. That's only a couple of years away. The other elephant in the room is that all cheap used cars were once expensive new cars. Oh, and compared to price price of a house these days, a new EV is practically pocket change. If we're going to be broke anyway, might as well drive something fun.
@@johnnyonlinethis is false. ICE are cheaper and depreciate slower than EV. EVs are cheaper to run but this is offset completely by sale price & depreciation. Second hand can be a sensible option.
People have jobs and work their butts off.
Just a small point on the maths. If an EV being charged at off peak domestic rate of 6.7p per kWh is going to cost (according to the video calculation) 1p per mile to run, that implies you are getting 6.7miles per kWh. With five EVs under my belt I have never managed much better than 4 miles per kWh, and that would be in summer, downhill with a following wind. Realistically it's more like 3 to 4 miles per kWh, depending upon the road conditions. And public EV charging can still be crap, especially in the North of England. At one location near Warrington today I was pre-charged twice with £99 in order to unlock a charger that worked, and so far have only been refunded for one payment. The pre-charge assumed that my car battery was 180kWh capacity (at 55p per kWh) which is much larger than any traction battery available in a car in the UK. So, it's still the wild west at some locations because far too many public chargers have problems.
I've had ev's around since 2010 and I agree. Commonly 3mi/kWh is normal but in the winter and depending on use it can drop a long way form that too.
I love it when they come out with the lines like "this 50kWh car will do 250 miles wltp" then try to back it up with "we all know thats optimistic but you should get at least 200" or other nonsense.
For a start off you aren't going to run it flat because that would be moronic then on top of that 200 miles from 50kWh is assuming 4mi/kWh which is only realistic in very specific conditions.
I wish they would be more honest and the reality is most small 50kWh cars on a motorway will be looking for a charger not much over 100 miles. If its the middle of winter and wet thats only going one way. Then they claim the charging based on 10%-80% or 20%-80% which means you're only going to have 60-70 miles on the next leg.
I agree. Calculations suggest that on a very cheap home tariff it will cost at least 2p per mile.
But public charging is a whole other story - they absolutely fleece people and it can end up costing you up to double the cost of diesel.
@@darrenadams2640 It does, of course, depend - but yes, around 2p per mile on home charger (in the summer I get about 1.6p per mile). Public charging varies hugely - from something like 35p to 85p per kWh. I get between 3.4 and 4.4 miles per kWh, depending on the time of year. At 4.4 miles/kWh the 85p (I have never paid as much as that, but bear with me) rate would cost me 19p per mile. My old Diesel did about 45 miles per gallon on a good day. At £1.41 per litre, that gives me about 15p per mile - so the EV (at its most expensive) would cost a bit more than a Diesel, but not double - nowhere near. However, it is quite easy to find much cheaper prices even on public chargers.
Worth noting that the public charging cost is stated as 20 times home charging at 6.7p. Last time I checked 20 times 6.7 p was £1.34p, not 0.79p.
yes, lots of misleading maths in this video. £5.45 / 300 miles = about 1.8p per mile, which for some reason Ped rounded down to 1p, and then using this flawed maths claimed that public charging is 20x more expensive when clearly it is more like 10-12x. Ok not the end of the world but it's important to do it correctly if you want to be credible.
I drive a Volvo ICE XC60 2.4L Diesel and filled up before a long trip. £90 of fuel in the tank. Once underway I noticed the expected range of my fuel, and that was 700 miles. No worries re fuel for the whole 374 mile round trip I was doing that day. Where is there an EV that can match these figures? and the cost of the car was £13,500 No where near the £20,000 + for an equivalent class of car. Admittedly it's now 10 years old but drives and runs perfectly with no major faults or degradation of fuel economy. I'm 72 years old now and I'm not expecting to change cars before I finally hand back my licence. EV's are not for me, No home charger as I live in a terraced house straight onto the street, no drive. One last thing, My car is AWD so quite good in snow and difficult terrains, has the usual Cruise Control, Traction Control and City Safety etc. All in all, It's a good car for me. and reasonably frugal on fuel and so the environment. No one will force me to change to an EV
I drive a 2012 Volvo V50 - i bought it new and for the last 12 years I have paid zero VED. I can fill it up and drive ~600 miles on one tank of fuel. VED renewal is due at end of Feb so I will get one last year of VED free motoring - after that, from the figures I have seen, I will have to pay £20 a year (until they decide to plug that 'revenue hole').
Forcing car owners to get rid of their dirty ICE vehicles for “zero emission” (no such thing) vehicles which are currently priced, in most normal citizens cases, beyond their incomes - that will drive car ownership down.
Already their will be a generation coming along that will not know how to drive a car with a manual gearbox. Add to that, the future scarcity of cheap used cars (not priced over £5k or in that bracket - my first used car was £750 back in 1973) on the market for new drivers to buy as their first car, huge increases in VED for older ICE cars, increasing cost of fuel for ICE vehicles, huge prices for insurance for young drivers - just a few of the hurdles that future drivers will have to weigh up against affording other ‘luxuries’ or essentials when they set out in the world on their own.
Their choice will end up as get a bicycle/electric scooter to get around their local area or rely on public transport to go further afield…
Which is what the eco-zealots really want...
No one is forcing you to buy an Ev, you can still buy Petrols & Diesels and they will be on the market for a decade or 2 after they stop being sold. If EV doesnt work for you, dont buy one!
I would say for a great many people even £15,000 to spend on a car is beyond their reach.
Fully agree with you especially around Yorkshire were I live the average car in the road is worth less than 10 grand.
@SCYorks Same in Notts £15,000 Plus aint funny.
@@tonyrobinson362 Sometimes
I think these TH-camrs don't live in the real world to be blunt don't get me wrong I've 9 cars myself but realize that a lot every day people as I've said earlier struggle with finding over 10k for a car.
They could lease a new Leaf from £175 a month
ford fiesta, one of the best selling cars in the uk, cheapest entry level car was almost 19k before they stopped making them. Affordability means different things to different people. A brand new car is never cheap regardless of it being petrol or electric
Great explanation and examples but I’m still not convinced on EV. The main gripe is that the government keeps changing the rules to suit them. I don’t want to be forced to change my car or have to buy an EV. I have a 14 year old defender that I never want to sell. It’s my only car and daily drive and will last years and years and I expect will out live most EV. When I do want a 2nd car I want I’ll choose what I want not what the government thinks we want !
Not a single part of this made me think an EV is for me, thankfully
@@peterrolt6403 and don’t even get me started on the other stealth taxation paying fees for a few years on new cars and even if they are 2nd hand ie younger than 3 years the new owner has to cover it
th-cam.com/video/s8-Xo_YeYlM/w-d-xo.htmlsi=jSHf6iK8Gk00jKz3 pop a battery in it and keep it 👍
@ I’d rather pop an LS3 in it !
They could change the rules on your current can and suddenly charge you a fee to drive in the city you live just because your current car is not green enough.
Worrying about government changes is not woth the worry but you can guarantee the government will hit older vehicles harder with green polices in the future.
If say 12 million homes were running continously 7kW charges overnight 2 things are likely.
1. Prices won't be 7p/kWh anymore.
2. Grid/supply network will go t!ts up.
If we get to a situation where ALL power use, transportation, heating etc is electric, we will have introduced a massive single point failure & be asking for trouble. Diversity of electric (all generation forms) natural gas, diesel, petrol, oil, LPG, hydrogen, coal, bio etc. etc. removes this.
As a 2 EV family we don't charge every night maybe one for twice a week the grid seems to manage with millions of people running their ovens hobs 10kw showers every evening at the same time the majority of home charging is done overnight when demand is very low.
Ask yourself do all ICEdrivers fill up with fuel every night even when they don't need to, why would you assume EV drivers would?
The reason electric is 7p/kwh is because the grid has an oversupply of power, particularly between 23:30 and 05:30. However, smart EV chargers/tariffs can actually make use of oversupply during the day as well as night. Therefore, if I plug my car in at 12 noon for example, the app for my charger will give me a schedule of when the car is going to charge to make use of the cheap rate and this might be during 'peak' hours if supply is good (sunny/windy day is ideal). The main point here is that supply isn't going to be an issue; there is plenty of energy generation in planning and construction to more than accommodate the progressive increase in EV ownership. There isn't going to be a sudden uptake in EV ownership.
So I did the maths:
According to the government website, in the U.K in 2022, people travelled 740 billion km, 86% of which were by passenger vehicle (636.4b km)
The Tesla Model Y LR AWD gets 16.9kWh/100km WLTP, so assume 80% of that real world: 21,125kWh/100km.
636 400 000km / 100km * 21,125kWh/100km = 134 439 500 kWh if everyone used a Tesla Model Y and no-one was a passenger.
That's 368 075 kWh per day
Assuming everyone in the U.K charged only at home and only between 10pm and 5am, that's 52,6MW
Looking at the Energy Dashboard U.K site, I'm seeing that just wind power alone was producing 14GW at 5AM today.
Can you see an error in my calculations? This doesn't seem like an issue at all.
Edit: I'm from South Africa, and we use the decimal comma, and spaces to group 1 000s.
@@ItsAllJustBollox when was the last time you had an 8 hour shower?
there is absolutely no reason to believe there is ANY lack of power production. Are energy distributors greedy....who'd have thought it!
Still one of the biggest issues for me is the fact if you pull up to a charger and 2 or 3 people are in front of you your looking a wait of 30 mins+ per car before you charge yours.
I've never had to wait for a charger, except if I could be bothered to use a supermarket charger.
On the road, there are plenty of chargers available, and if one place is busy, then just go to one that isn't. There are chargers literally everywhere, you just need to find them.
Had an EV for 5 years and never once sat and waited for a charge. The simple trick is to get out of your old ICE mindset of running it to the fumes and then filling up as you then have no option but to wait. Stop with say 20% left and you have the option of moving on to the next one.
@@RichardWorton-f9g So what you are saying is the range shown is a load of rubbish as you need to recharge long before you *have* to? Whereas those of us sensible enough to not believe the BS about EV's can continue until we are on reserve, spend 3-4 minutes fully 'recharging' aka "filling the tank" and off we go.
On a recent trip back from Inverness to South Warwickshire I didn't stop once. I cannot think of an EV that would do that type of distance. On arrival home I had to make an unexpected (and immediate) journey to Leicester. I did it on the fuel that was still in my tank. There and back. Good luck to you, and anyone who drives an EV, but they're not for me.
@@johnnodge4327As a relatively new EV owner but one that charges 99.9% from home, ive not experienced an issue finding a public charger free however given that only 19% of all new cars last year were EVs I do wonder what its gonna look like as EV ownership increases rapidly over the next 5-10 years.
you are correct if that happens. But if you have your own driveway and you can charge at home, then you ONLY need to use a public charger if you're doing a trip over around 300 miles. How often do you do that?
The management can charge at work, us minions can't. So I can only charge on my way to work or on the way home. That's more time of my life at a service station when I could be at home.
Disgraceful elitism.
All staff can charge at my place of work free of charge there are currently no personal tax implications as hmrc don't class staff charging as a benefit in kind at the moment as long as all staff are included.
I drive 50 miles a day for work so an EV fits my needs perfectly.
Yes, all that time wasted waiting around AND you are being absolutely fleeced in the process - public charging can cost twice as much as diesel.
After my VW EV produced a fault, I found that there’s a shortage of technicians. My car sat for four weeks without work being carried out on it. Nearly two months in and I still don’t have the car back, I still don’t really know what’s going on with it. I am without a doubt going back to an ICE once this is resolved.
Don't buy a Land rover, my brother's diesel discovery developed an injector fault before christmas. They are due to fix it mid February! I don't think repair delays are an EV only issue.
Correct. All vehicles ICE or EV are having long repair times. There aren't enough technicians in the auto industry, as people won't work for the pathetic wages being offered. This is why I left, and got a job that pays twice the money, for 5 hours less per week, and I don't even get cold, dirty, or wet now.
@@the_lost_navigator7266 Land Rover problems are specific to that company, owned by Tata in India now. That are pretty well dead in the water and anyone who buys a newer JLR vehicle is being stupid. The writing is on the wall, people need to read it. Sad for the great motoring marques like these, but the fault does not lie with the customers.
Many of the traditional auto manufacturers are in a downward spiral due to legislation and government meddling, but JLR were already on that slippery slope before any of this happened.
You'll be struggling to get anyone to take it as part ex that's the problem.
I have heard this is quite common. VW ID issues and long repair times. I know a few folks handed back and gone back to ice.
I’m not anti EV, but I am anti TAX. The ‘luxury vehicle tax’ is a huge scam. £40k is not a lot for any new car these days, let alone a new EV. I agree that EV owners should pay VED, but why such a huge jump between pre and post Mar 2017 vehicles?
The whole car tax system we have now is a complete mess thanks to years of tinkering and never applying the changes retrospectively. The whole system needs clearing out and starting again.
Yep what a con. And the latest new car tax is horrifying (£2,500 first year tax at the showroom on cars like the 992 porsche) wow
Sorry £40K is only for the rich but I agree on Road tax it’s a mess
@@timtim4603 define "rich". In a street of former/current council houses near us there is someone with a Toyota BZ4X and that's over £40,000. I don't think they are "rich" but I guess that depends upon where you draw the wealth lines.
Just got an EV in Dec 24 for town use and a 30 mile work commute, come April road tax goes from £0 to £195, my other car a 2014 Avensis 2.0d will go from £35 to £40 what a mixed up mess the road tax has become.
The other issue you didn't raise with the charging network is that in my part of the country, most public chargers are in public car parks. So you have to pay a parking charge on top of charge for the electricity. What's more you can't leave your car all day blocking the space once your car is charged. So, you've gone to the beach for the day. You get there early, find a space with a charger, charge your car. Late morning you then need to move your car, however by 10:30 am all the car parking spaces are full. So you leave your family on the beach and drive around for hours trying to find a space!!!!
Naaah you just drop the charge rate so it charges slower but is still charging. Easy.
Depends on the type of charger. If it's a destination charger (ie slow charger) then it's basically a parking space which happens to have a charger on it for convenience. First come, first served. Stay as long as you need. If it's a rapid however, it could be someone's vital resource for being able to continue their journey and it's very bad form to block it once you have finished with it.
13:30 This makes sense if you own your own home and never plan on using a different brand of car with a different charger. But how do people who live in flats,busy city centres or people who rent charge their car at home?
In the last 25 years, I have owned 3 cars. Total cost, just £670, In other words, since I've recently sold my last car, just £2.23 depreciation per month on average, without a single breakdown over that time.
I managed to retire 11 years early, primarily due to the savings I have made, by running older cars
I can't really see myself purchasing an electric car any time soon. Not just because of the expense, and the eye popping depreciation, but also because of two key factors:
I'm not prepared to pay up to ten times more for charging, when compared to those who can charge at home.
And secondly, it must surely be obvious now, that there will never be enough public chargers, in time before new sales of ICE cars end. It's going to be chaos.
Youre kidding yourself if you think the home charging prices will stay that low. The only benefit will evaporate eventually.
Another problem for EV insurance is that a small dink can compromise the confidence in the battery safety as the battery spans the entire bottom of the car.
Something not mentioned - aside from the pricing issue, public charging points are typically located some distance from immediate assistance, at the far end of carparks and retails areas etc., meaning a vulnerable person may have far more difficulties than filling an ICE car on a petrol forecort. The cables on the ultra rapid charges are thick and very heavy. There's no way my elderly mother would be able to manhandle one of those!
Depends on the location and charger. I’ve used them at moto services right next to the entrance and also the kem power chargers are on overhead bendy arms to carry the weight. I’d be more concerned with wheelchair access as they can be sited up on kerbs making it impossible
Times are changing. The days of lonely old rapids in isolated car parks are over. Where you do see rapids in places such as supermarkets or retail parks, they can't put them right next to the door otherwise selfish pricks just treat them as convenient parking spaces.
Great vid as awlays Ped. As a dedicated petrolhead, we have only recently dipped our toe in the electric water. An approved used BMW i3 for £15k. Octopus overnight charging at 7p, so around £3 or less for 160 miles. Perfect for all our local journeys. As you have pointed out, it all goes to sh*t if and when you charge out and about. 75p in a hotel the other day worked out at twice the price of petrol in an M340i! EV's have their place. But only if you can charge at home. We have to remember that people running existing cars is always better than building a new car and mining all the minerals that are required for the batteries. We just moved from mining oil to mining other chemicals! Oh and now the i3 is going to start having to pay road tax!
i3 was so ahead of its time 👌
@@PetrolPed Yup, nothing like it now which is a shame!
Fantastic car for its time! Carbon tub and recycled plastics went in to its manufacture, as I remember. I think BMW electric vehicles have not evolved so quickly since the i3 and i8 landed - truly revolutionary designs and manufacture….
This is actually very untrue.
The carbon debt of building a new Tesla model Y vs continuing to run a petrol car breaks even after 3 years in the UK.
Google carbon brief EV myths for the maths on that.
Everyone can charge at home. See the governments guidelines on cross pavement solutions. Councils only able to decline if it's dangerous. Ie you can get a firm to install a device called Kerbo charge to facilitate this.
You'll need your highways dept permission first but they should all be getting their heads around this ASAP. Guidelines were published at Christmas
If air-conditioning stops working get it sorted straight away, Disaster looming if you dont.
It is horses for courses.
This country isn't close to being in a position for the majority of cars to become EVs, and it won't be for decades, if ever.
For years, I was driving a thousand miles a week, and I have no off-street parking. Electric was impossible.
My circumstances changed a couple of years ago, and now I have an electric car because it is the best option for me now.
Public fast charging is hit and miss, but with a BP subscription, I can usually find one of their chargers and avoid lots of large pre-authorisations sitting on my card for days at a time. They just bill me at the end of the month.
Things work at the moment for me... We will see how it goes, but if my mileage goes up dramatically again, I'm going to have to switch back to diesel.
They are really messing it up with road tax again. Charging another 400 quid for premium EV . They did the same with plugin hybrids, which made me just have self charging. Why would you spend over 40k on bigger battery etc to be walloped for more road tax per year it doesn't make sense. Better to stay in old diesel or petrol as it's cheaper to run . I nearly stayed in my diesel cx5 as it was cheaper than my hybrid in 2022 .People are still going to stay in ICE for as long as possible due to all negatives that most of us will have with an EV
Cheaper to run? I doubt it. I'm saving about £1000 a year on fuel alone - let alone maintenance.
I have access to a salary sacrifice scheme, but I can't ever own the car I choose to drive. 3 years rent on a mid size SUV is around £12,000, then I have to pre guess the mileage I will drive each year, then I will get screwed if I dare to exceed that figure. I can only get it serviced where they say, and invariably that’s not at a garage that specialises in EVs. That’s as far as I went with switching to EV motoring. I now own a 5 year old RAV4 hybrid which is in good condition, having had one previous owner. It drives superbly, returns 50 mpg and is mine to do with as I please and drive as far as I need without having to encounter charger rage, or get fleeced for 10 - 20x the home rate. EV to me means daylight robbery at every turn. Until that changes, hybrid is as far as I will venture.
A lot of great truths but some staggering glossing over facts ! Speed of Depreciation cannot be over looked a Porsche Taycan will lose 60 % of its value in less than 12months with low mileage not 3 years ! Charging my Hybrid X5 at home has cost me an additional 1500 quid over the last 18 months for a small a 26 kw battery that at the moment will only run 28 miles in this cold weather. The infrastructure for public charging is pathetic with many broken or over subscribed chargers at every services unless you are further South. My car can only charge at 11kw. Max So public charging is non sense for me as it takes 5 hrs, but BMW do this to extend the charge life of the battery. Ridiculously expensive motoring for what are souless laptops with seats in. Why should we be forced to do this when the reality is the production of these cars is far more damaging than the UKs pathetic attempt to save the planet. Surely if we develop synthetic non polluting fuels we dont need to produce more and more cars but keep the ones in existence running rather than scrapping old cars ? I hate this tax on personal choice ! Keep up the good work none the less old boy thouroughly enjoyable videos well 9 times out of 10 anyway 😂😉👍🏻
💯💯💯💪👏👏👏👊👍
Easy. A battery vehicle (not a hybrid, those are pointless) is about 80% energy efficient, meaning 80% of the energy drawn from the grid does useful work in the car.
An internal combustion engine is under 30% efficient, meaning 70% of the energy put in to it turns to heat and noise.
Bio fuel are energy intensive fuels, which means for every kW of energy the fuel delivers, it takes 2 or 3 kW for energy to produce. Then it's burnt at a 30% efficiency, causing more CO2 than burnt fossil fuels to start with.
Electric cars on the other hand are so much more energy efficient, so they actually do reduce CO2 emissions.
I can't see how you're spending so much on electricity, unless public charging, as I spend less than £500 per year to run my EV, which covers 18k miles per year.
All good points. Well said
@@johnnodge4327 I can only drive hybrids , whilst many journeys are short and i have averaged over 65 mpg over the last 2.5 years and 61% of my journeys have been Electric only . I have to and do often drive more than 200 or 300 miles in a day and no EV provides me a solution that does not need extended planning or even overnight stays which I cannot do. So your sweeping statement that Hybrids are pointless well not for everyone.
PHEV’s are NOT “ Pointless”! If you charge one up to get 30 miles of range and then leave home, do those 25/30 miles and then the petrol engine takes over you are completely correct..it is an expensive and inefficient idea. However…the way to use a PHEV properly is to charge up…then when you set off, go into SAVE mode which means the car now uses the truly free regained energy for low speed work, it always pulls away from standstill using EV mode and when in low speed moments,it uses only the EV battery so that in towns or car parks, Malls etc….you get the emission free use that actually helps air quality at point of use. If you have only a short journey to make…use pure EV…it makes cold starting and warming up a thing of the past and that is when a petrol engine is at its most inefficient…stand by your exhaust pipe on your next cold starting and tell me that is wrong! A PHEV offers a great deal of EV benefits and in my car, 15/17% of every journey is regained EV…and my 31 mile battery lasts me a week…doing 150/200 miles on average. Far from “ pointless”…just understand and learn to drive it properly!🫢🤔🙂
A youtuber has just done a study. He has taken a 3 year ev and looked at depreciation and the equivalent in petrol/diesel.
The depreciation in EV is way more. Some have lost upto 50% of the on the road price. That is 3 years.
Every car has 40-60% depreciation over three years from new. Has been the same (other than Covid times) for the past few decades. They literally show you this in car magazines
An ICE cost of ownership is more than an equivalent EV, once all maintenance, fuel costs, and depreciation is factored in. If you're worried about depreciation, buy second hand, than someone else has taken that initial hit, same as an ICE car.
@rogerfinch7651 The guy I watched was showing equivalent cars and yes had depreciation on them but not as much by some difference.
No one wants EV .
@johnnodge4327 I wouldn't take an EV for free. Also not able to charge at home 😕
Ok so make the smart choice. Buy a used one. I got a 3 and half year old Model 3 LR with 26k on it for 21,500. Bargain
I live in Bristol and decided just to go for it and buy a Tesla Model 3 Performance. It was the best decision I ever made and even though my wall charger has recently broken, I’m still able to put 30+ miles on it overnight from a plug socket. I plug it in whenever I can and never really think about range when I’m going around the city. If I go on a longer journey then there’s the Tesla charging network which has been an absolute doddle and it’s taught me that taking 15-30 mins rest is ideal when motorway driving can be quite exhausting.
Tesla buzz my phone when the next part of my journey can be made, so sometimes I’m only charging for 10 mins and off I go. Once you start driving an EV you very (VERY) quickly become aware of when and where you need to charge - it’s almost intuitive and really is not stressful at all.
I miss having an engine car for the spirit of it - we all know that engine cars have character - but our Tesla isn’t without a personality and it’s comfort far outweighs all cars I have ever driven. A motorway journey is so easy when you double click the right stalk and the car just cruises. There is certainly a feeling of expedition and pioneering that you don’t always get with engine cars. You’re out there in a cutting edge vehicle and voyaging into the future of motoring. I won’t go back.
Thank you for war and peace
I'm very satisfied with my Tesla Model 3 SR+ after 5.5 years.
I never missed performance, however there's been occasions when I wouldn't mind AWD. But that's only a few rare occasions through the winter. As long as I don't have to fight traction on ice and snow, RWD is more than enough for me.
Was there from Newcastle a few weeks ago, used the Tesla charging point next to a strange Burger King, 40p/kw is worth the slow charging speed.
Not a great idea to use a plug socket!
@Malcolm-nj8ky
Why is that? I’m using a Tesla ‘granny cable’ for the purpose. Is it damaging in some way?
19 percent of all cars sold in 2024 were evs and of that 50 percent were leased and company cars were 29 percent, the general public dont want them not yet anyway, what they should have done
is brought out a plugin that would do 120 mile in the real world in winter then increase range every 2 years
My BEV (a lowly Leaf) can do 140 miles real world in winter.
Who do you think leases these EVs? Who do you think chooses EVs as a company car? Who do you think takes the salary sacrifice option to get an EV? Who do you think chooses an EV through Motability? It's the general public.
@@appkazoo5925 sorry mate thats just not so you already answered your own question
It’s utterly incredible that anyone still believes the media and the government …🤦♂️
Interesting video, but I've got a few notes:
EV3 is 400V architecture and £36k for the 375 mile WLTP range.
The penny per mile calculation seems to be more like 2p per mile, making the Gridserve pricing 10-12 times the price, still a significant difference, but not the 20x suggested.
Yeah a simple it is 7p a kWh to 79p kWh is not 20 times more. +gridserve is on the expensive end of charging.
Jump on a Tesla charger and it’s 40p but they only run 400V anyway (so not fast for the EV6/9 or Porsche)
Yes, he's got his detail wrong on the Kia EV3, but it's an interesting car that I'm looking at for my third EV.
Second hand EVs is the way to go. We’ve just bought a 4 year old Cooper S electric with 26k on the clock for under £12k. It has loads of life left in it. It’s perfect for short trips. Longer trips we are keeping our petrol car. We have the luxury of a home charger and overnight charging. Our running costs have come down substantially. I believe that more people would consider EVs if the Government reversed the policy giving choice back to the public. Forcing people to move to just electric for new cars is too draconian.
Very sensible and balanced comment .
It has to be forced otherwise the competitive pressure on the first car company that produced an EV would force it to give up. This would make every company delay as long as possible and then we wouldn't have all the investment and development that has lead to cheaper batteries like LFP and so on. All car companies have to invest and they won't want to do that for a future that's a "maybe". There's basically no choice about climate change - we can't bargain with the weather.
You have a set of circumstances that works for you which is great and a better price on the vehicle. However, that should be the driver of change - not coercion.
Totally agree. Do the research and buy the right car for your needs and they make incredible value. We'll done
Kia Ev3 with 375 miles range, starts from about £36k not £32k that's gives 254 mile range, where can you get a new mg4 that does 329 for £22k you are quoting longest range but the price for the smallest battery.
Totally agree.
Great insight, still don’t want one. I will drive my car until they rip the keys out of my hand.
I like a lot of other people dont like to be told what car you can buy, you will never convince me to buy a EV.
@@ronnieright4935 how did you cope when you were told you can only drive an ICE car?
@@TheVedabuss A non=plus question, all im saying is i dont like dictators i will buy what i want, not bullied into the fantasy that we will be driving a milk float in 5 to 10 years time, plus i probably wont be alive long enough to worry about it.
@@TheVedabuss over the moon I would think!
I said that when I was told I’d have to give up my horse and cart.
Who is telling you what car to buy? Have I missed something? I’m quite happy with my horse and cart 😉
I can't get my head around all the maths involved let alone all the different apps needed to search for a charger, I'm only 60 and I've built lots of computers but software drives me mad. A phone is a phone to me it takes and makes calls. I don't need 10 apps to find a charger when there are lots of petrol stations out there.
Absolutely spot on. If it takes huge amounts of TH-cam videos to explain how easy it is to charge your EV….then it’s not easy.
You don’t mention the cost of replacing a battery. And if garages are willing to do it… They’d rather sell you another car!
In the cost of charging versus petrol there is (for now) also the excise duty on petrol that you don't have when charging at home. I suspect when the revenu of the excises on petrol will begin to drop, an excise duty on electricity used for charging ev's will make it's apearance (including when charging at home!)
Putting fuel duty on home charging would be difficult to achieve. Especially if the home owner has solar and battery, so can effectively charge with zero power from the grid .
They charge 20% vat on public charging and 5% on home electric. They won’t know how to charge you more for your EV at home, as it’s combined. What if you have solar too? No chance ..
And that's why they want people on smart meters!
Complete nonsense I am afraid. Far too difficult to put into practise and far too easy to circumnavigate. For example, if they make my wallbox report my charging in order to tax it, I'll just use the granny charger plugged into a 3 pin plug. How the hell can they tell its not just the kettle switched on. When excise revenue drops too far the only viable option is road tolls (pay per mile) and thay will apply to all users.
I'm sure that they would like to find a way to put duty on EV electricity, but it is hard to see how they can do that in a way that cannot be circumvented. I suppose they could try doing it on any cheap, overnight, electricity - the 7p that Octopus charge, or 4.5p that Tomato charge - but I suspect that there would be a lot of resistance to that - from, for instance, people with heat pumps that have been encouraged to put them in.
Am I right in thinking that EV manufacturers are still advising owners to keep their car's batteries charged between 20% and 80% in order to improve longevity? If that's true then your example of an EV with a WLTP range of 350 miles (but a real-world range of 300 miles) should be further restricted to a sensible 180 miles.
Charging to 80% is optional, for day-to-day use. If you need 100%, then you charge to 100%, simple !
The usable battery size is less than the full battery size anyway, so charging to 100% isn't bad
Yes and no.
You can do that if you wish and I do because I've bought it outright. I have home charging so it makes no matter how I charge it. Range being irrelevant on a short work commute. If I can I might as well make my battery last even longer.
But if I want to do a long journey I absolutely charge to 100% and run it down to near 0 if I can charge there (ie my families houses - we all have EVs and home 7p charging tariffs).
And if you don't have home charging just do 20 to 100% routinely.
With the new government guidelines on cross pavement solutions, hopefully everyone will be able to access home charging tariffs 👌 for convenience and price reasons.
It’s not that simple. I have done a video on the subject…
th-cam.com/video/r1BBNJDnkTQ/w-d-xo.htmlsi=aIKlzJiHTjXtxXed
You'd be foolish not to use 100% of the battery charge if you needed to - that's clear. But for day-to-day usage, does the 20% to 80% advice still apply? I am aware that battery technology has improved and that modern thermal management systems provide better longevity, but do EV owners generally stick to between 20% and 80% charge?
@@nigelsmith5807many just say screw it it's leased I don't care and do a daily use from 100 to 95% and charge it back up.
Not good for the battery but not their problem.
Google EV battery health with Dr Jeff Dahn from Canada electric vehicle society. He developed Tesla's batteries. Recommends using it 40-60% if you're doing short trips.
As for what people actually do - I'm not aware on any surveys of the UKs 1m plus EV drivers tbh
Dont forget £1000 plus for a home charger.
If you need one. I used granny charger on a three pin for 4 years
If you drive 12k miles per year on a home EV tariff, your charger will be paid for in less than 1 year.
12k miles per year. diesel £120 per month, electric £20 per month. Home charger was £1000, paid for in 10 months. Last manufacturers service £100. Oil change £0. Oil Filter £0. Spark plugs £0. Air inlet filter £0.
Mine worked out £700 with salary sacrifice
@michaelsamwise1 I bet you don't need a new timing belt either. Or be worried that the belt might break and wreck your engine.
Great informative video but there are so many variables to consider. I'll stick with my 18 year old (182mph) flat 6 petrol guzzler until i depart the electrified world.
This is truly one of the most considered videos, and bits of journalism in general, I’ve seen on EV ownership.
Wow…thank you 🙏🏻
As an EV driver of 4 years with my only car being an EV - I agree with most of your general comments and thought it was a very balanced analysis.
However, I would say that people who cannot charge at home tend to use slower/cheaper chargers more often (e.g. 7kW chargers) to charge whilst they are at work/gym/shopping etc.. And/Or there are subscriptions which reduces the cost of charging - notably Tesla charger prices are much cheaper than the Gridserve price you quoted, so the cost per mile is lower. Also there are apps such as Co-Charge which enable EV drivers to use other people's EV chargers on their driveway, so if your neighbour has a driveway/charger but you don't, you can still use that EV charger, it's a 'hidden' network of EV chargers.
@petrolped You should also consider doing some interviews with Charge UK on the channel, you could ask your audience for ideas for questions?
I agree, no sensationalism. Just honest facts about EV ownership.
Yes, I totally agree, as stated in the intro, a straight forward presentation of facts. I hope this goes viral among people considering buying an EV. I work in the motor industry, there is a lot of poor information coming from people within the industry.
Agree completely. Great video. Very fair appraisal of the current state of the developing market. I love the driving experience of an EV but completely understand that they don't suit many people given the current market and infrastructure. With home charging and only occasional long trips requiring public charging they are ideal. With no off road charging or daily trips requiring a public charger, much, much more challenging.
Surely the difference between the wear and tear, is that you can replace all of the main mechanicals over time and keep the car running but when the batteries give up the ghost, the main part of an EV in cost is the battery, so you might as well have another car. I think that they are so worried about this in Europe, that I believe they are looking at legislation to prevent combustion owners cars being repaired.
Great Video, a well-balanced critique. What really annoys me is the Government's attitude of saying on the one hand that we must get to zero emissions by 2035 (I think) but yet they are showing no schemes or initiative to encourage people to move to EVs. The first thing they do is put the Car Tax (or VED) to £190 and then hit you with a luxury Tax because let's face it most really good-looking EVs are £40,000+. Plus what are they doing about the infrastructure? Here in Northern Ireland, there are only about 60 of 150Kwh chargers at around the cost of £0.88p kwh and they have been put in by a local Grocery Retailer....where are the government and the car industry's involvement in this? I drive a Lexus ES Hybrid and I get on average about 43mpg which I think is great for a large luxury petrol car but what am I going to have to pay for an EV equivalent plus what price am I going to pay on Car Tax and Luxury tax?.....it just doesn't make sense. I would love to move to an EV but with the way Musk is carrying on with his right-wing politics and no encouragement from this Labour Government, I can't see this happening very soon
People are deluded if they think the "low cost home charging" can continue along with tax incentives to buy EV's. Haven't you heard the UK is nearly bankrupt, you think a government will just allow all that tax revenue from fossil fuel to be lost. After the honeymoon /honeytrap period all that revenue will be raked back somehow from the then increasing EV owners.
There aren’t any incentives now for home owners. Best not think about the amount the petrol companies make in profit while claiming subsidies from the same ‘bankrupt’ government!
@@workman122I think you are right so adopt early and bag the benefits while you can, I haven't paid road tax in 3 years, and running costs are a fraction of when I was driving a diesel. This will end at some point, as it must, but I have really benefitted from this incentivised period so getting an EV was real smart.
The reason for cheap ‘EV’ tariffs is to use energy when there is surplus electricity. I’ve seen Octopus charge my car in early evening rather than over night. It’s even charged during the day this summer. I was still paid the EV rate however.
The same happened with LPG that was cheap once now gone up. Problem with these Lithium Ion battery cars or vehicles is that they keep spo.ntaneously combusting. This has been happening for 30 years well before these batteries were placed in vehicles. A known fire risk and yet few seem to care about safety.
I see where you are coming from but it is hard to differentiate various electricity usage. There is always the question of implementability of any tax / law. I think there will just be a higher VAT rate for usage above a certain high threshold and or a higher road tax.
With more EVs though there will be less money leaving the country.
Another interesting take on the world of getting from A to B. You have just reminded me exactly why I got out of EV motoring. Don't get me wrong I loved my i-Pace for comfort & speed and cost of running it for my wifes commute and going for lunch at a weekend within 150 miles radius. It just did not work for driving up North to visit family in a Scottish winters day in sub zero temperatures on a daily round trip of over 300 miles requiring two charge stops. The premium of £100 per month over the price of Insurance of our normal ice cars was a bit sore and charging away from home base always niggled as when we purchased the vehicle charging was free with the Scottish government scheme then was withdrawn when electricity prices rose dramatically with the Ukraine conflict not long after we purchased the car. The final nail in the coffin was the devaluation of the car by two thirds in two years bearing in mind it was a three year old car when we bought it and I had expected that the hit of depreciation would have been felt by the previous owner. How wrong I was.
You completely knobbled yourself as soon as you started on home charging. Very few home owners can install a charger even if they do have off road parking. A huge amount of older properties don't even have a high enough capacity mains power grid connection to do more than a plug in trickle charger. Your figure for rural areas having off street parking is way off. Even in the town I live in there is hardly any houses with of street parking as it's probably 90% terraced housing. Also why would you equate home charging as an advantage as you cant fill a diesel at home? Why would you want to when you can nip into a local garage on route, not 10 miles off route, and spend 5 minutes to fill it up.
Pretty sure Kia EV3 uses 400V architecture, despite the fact the rest of the cars built on the eGMP platform are 800V.
Correct
Although they are in the 800v class, many of the models are in the 500-600 nominal voltage range.
Isn’t there an insurance problem. There’s a TH-cam contributor with a Porsche Taycan who shows on screen a letter from Porsche stating don’t park it in your garage ( apparently for fire safety reasons).
I think he had a letter from his house insurers saying that they would not insure him with an EV on the drive.
This, if correct, is worrying.
Additionally the Taycan battery has Porsche warranty for up to 8 years or 100,000 miles. Once the warranty expires has the car much value?
I would like to see EVs being successful but they’re still at the early stages.
I from the UK but live in Sweden and I have to say I am a big petrol head after being fortunate to own a number of nice ICE cars. However after owning two EV’s, now EV6 GT my latest. I think arguably I would never go back. I think the biggest issue in Blighty is firstly the charging network and secondly the huge amount of false information you hear and especially about battery degradation, charging and reliability.
Living in the Nordics we don’t have the same feeling. Actually far from it and in the likes of Norway it is almost all EV’s being bought. In no way do I have any issues travelling around Sweden or actually in to Europe and remember Sweden is a big country. So if the UK got its act together on charging and a lot of the media stopped being negative. Then i think the up take would be huge. Just to put it into context Rory Reid borrowed an old Tesla modelS which had been a taxi and had over 400,000mls on it and was still working fine. I think in the UK you have a great advantage currently as prices much cheaper for you guys on second hand EV’s and should take advantage of it. 🤔. Plus not to forget on longer journeys you want a piss/food break and the car certainly has finished before I have. We have a lot of 350kw chargers over here so on cars like mine it is stupidly quick and then there is Tesla superchargers, which is now open to all cars. So charging for me on long journeys is never a consideration. Plus remember the more public chargers there are hopefully the more competitive it becomes price wise??
Also many companies now specialising in battery cell replacement and therefore less need for insurance companies to write them off. And unfortunately don’t get me going on what China will be bringing over soon, I think people will be staggered?
But great sum up Ped and a good even balance that is more realistic. 👍
The public charging has been an issue but it Is going much better now. For decent 150kW+ chargers we have over 7000 now from 1700 2 years or 4 times as many. I expect another 5000 this year.
We will be getting the Chinese stuff some no EU tax on them here.
@@johnbaker5533regardless of the EU taxes they are certainly becoming more popular here. Especially considering how the level of quality has gotten over the last 2-3 years. You can understand why not many German EV’s especially, are not selling in China and particularly if they are 3/4 times more expensive but not that much better in quality. Looking at some of the latest Zeekr stuff, (who by the way the parent company Geely, own Lotus, Volvo, Polestar) are bringing out some really nice cars. Good the UK is improving as certainly having many more 150-350kw charges is in all honesty the key to stop people worrying about range anxiety or time charging. Obviously the irony is the vast amount of time most people travel less than 200mls on a daily basis. 🤷🏻
Recently I saw a video of an enormous queue of weekend skiers with their Teslas, waiting for charging in some small town in Sweden, all of them on their way back home. They were just sitting there with their cars, along the streets, helpless.
@@titibobo2000 Yes - 20 chargers, all occupied and in use, thus dramatically reducing the quoted output from the chargers, thus taking longer to charge. And the queue was at least 50 cars long, with more joining. All probably running their heaters, because the outside temperature was about minus 15 celcius.
@@titibobo2000i can guarantee that is not the norm. Usually these small ski resorts are limited as middle of nowhere and probably during a busy skiing period. Hence why so many EV’s sold here.
WLTP stands for Way Less Than Predicted. True for ICE and EV. True for ICE and EV. I often get WLTP or better…because I learned to drive in the late 1970s and we didn’t have much cash so had to make every gallon (yes gallon) go a long way.
Nice balanced video.
😂😂😂
This is an important point - those of us who learned to drive in the oil crisis of the 70s were taught how to squeeze more mileage out of our fuel. Even easier with one pedal driving and even greater increase in efficiency. I too get WLTP on all non-motorway journeys except in the very coldest of conditions. When I drive over 70mph (which I would do almost always in previous ICE cars, but now virtually never) efficiency is hit hard. Permanent 9 points on my licence for 25 years with ICE cars - none since I've owned an EV. My insurance has gone down, too!
If you don't need more than 200 miles range on an EV, why haven't ICE cars got 20 litre tanks?
BTW, Tomato Energy have 4.7p off peak, 12p mid peak and 22p rates.
because the cost of adding a bigger tank is minimal
@@appkazoo5925 But that's not the point is it?
What a dreadful, dilisusional, cherry picked diatribe that was.
Please don't try ti have us believe you are on the fence, although you may like ICE & EV, you lean towards EV, so why?
WLTP as you say is vastly over estimated but for you to not say that the ranges given is at least misrepresentation was a misstep on your part.
There was no mention of numbers of chargers NOT working.
Waiting times for a public charger.
Lack of a queueing system (apparently) at public chargers causing arguments.
You brushed over charging percentage (no less than 20% to no more than 80%) meaning that there is only 60% of battery capacity capacity usable.
Time taken to charge, 25 minutes? Really?
Plus waiting time....what is your time worth? Ask a mechanic or a plumber.
You said if you were buying an ICE car with 700000 miles, you would have concerns, really? Even if it was serviced regularly.
No mention of.....
Parking restrictions for EVs in certain places.
Tyre wear
Brake Wear
Impact on the planet.
And so it goes on.....
BTW this is from an EV Fan who would buy one tomorrow if they worked.
Great information as always, I've always been a massive petrol head, but converted a year ago to the family car being EV after getting an i4 m50, great car and love it for daily use, but some of these changes are likely to make me move back as it was a financial decison for me, cost to run so much cheaper than previous cars such as C43 amg estate. Items like road tax, especially lux tax as most family EVs I would want are over 40k and the BIK percentage going up so much it's likely to make me go back to petrol, government need to think this through, also cost of public charging is crazy and lots of hassle, every time I've had issues with no charger, or broken.
I'm Lucky that 95% of my trips are under 200 miles and 6p charging at home or solar, but if that wasn't true I wouldn't have one
Thanks for this 👍
I still don’t understand your position. On one hand you have solar and cheap charging with relatively short trips, so you are happy with that, on the other you keep inferring that it may be cheaper you you to go back to ICE if the luxury car tax is introduced.
@geoffburgermeisterburge7212 I can understand what your saying here, I'm not saying it will be cheaper to switch back to ICE, though it might if I went sensible car, It's more as a petrol head the large gap made me switch and salary sacrifice with ultra low BIK, if the gap becomes smaller I would much rather have a nice V8 or V6 family car.
The depreciation is mainly caused by salary sacrifice/ business etc. if I save 40% on a new car, why would I buy a second hand one with 40% off list price, doesn’t make sense. So a contributing factor of the additional depreciation is a side effect of gov intervention.
Additionally, EV makes more financial sense if you can charge at home, ergo have a house with a drive way. This limits the number of house holds and market share. At least until public charging is done on street and is cheaper than petrol/diesel etc. I would be willing to bet people who have a drive way are more likely to/ able to buy a new car, and so we have a different demographic between new and used.
2 quick points:
1. BIK will rise for all vehicles, and EVs will continue to be cheaper by a huge margin. By the time EVs are paying 9%, most petrol and diesel vehicles will be paying 30%-39%. 30% makes a huge difference to affordability, and makes EVs the obvious choice for anyone with a car allowance, even after the increase.
2. Salary sacrifice is not as common as you seem to think. Employers cannot pay less than the minimum/living wage, and that will be £23,873.60 from April. If a car is available at £500/month on salary sacrifice leasing or purchase, then that means your employees need to be earning at least £30K to be allowed to take up the offer.
an older car with 50 or 60 k is new to me.
Very on point and comprehensive! Top marks. As petrol head turned EV driver since 2019 you perfectly and susinctly explained everything.
The only extra points I would add, noting you have a Zappi charger is that in summer you can do a significant milage with Solar if you have PV fitted at home.
The other point is the servicing costs are dramatically cheaper as there isn't the consumables and wear items (clutches, etc).
Also I might have mentioned the benifits of not drawing attention to yourself if you put your foot down with no noisy exhaust.
Cleaner air.
In the winter being able to remotely defrost and warm up the car is amazing. Not many ICE cars have this function but it's common with EVs as you don't need to have the engine running to make heat. I don't miss Scraping the ice off my old ICE car!
Great video pete, now for a dose of reality i think that was missed
Whether you charge at home or elsewhere, and you religiously ensure 10% charge always minimum, so let's take 300miles (not many with that range and especially in winter), that gives 30miles
You have an emergency, so example need to get to a relative who is more than 30miles away, you have to charge the car, but due to bad weather no electric available in area, what do you do, this is not that uncommon in uk
In a petrol/diesel, you can get someone to bring a can of petrol or diesel if the worst of situations arises, you can't do that with ev
Do you see the issue?
But say electric is available, you have to then think well it's not just getting there, how about getting back or back to a place where I can charge the car which means more time added to getting back rather than just driving home!
Depreciation is not good, because someone, mostly lease companies now have to cover this, and that means many of these companies going out of business I think
This whole 10-80% think well that means if 300 is max, thats 60miles less immediately, and in winter probably 100miles potentially
So 200miles, but then charging the car at home, you have 10% left and want to go somewhere that night as some one has invited you and it's 60miles away, normally you would jump in car and go to fuel station and on your way, but ev, you need to now charge it to cover minimum 120miles if your feeling lucky, again not practical
Finally, I have never come across an ice car having to turn off the heating to get more range, yet the other day in fog, an ev was turning off its lights until people flashed them, and yet turned them off later, were they saving electric by having the lights off?
In the UK ev cannot work, like you mentioned, more than one car on drives, with those that have a drive, urban areas, where an ev would make sense for short journeys, but then if they want a long drive the range anxiety, it's just senseless
The ev forces you where to stop whereas with a ice car you can choose where to stop, simple as that
So there you go, my thoughts EV will not work, maybe for 30% like Toyota ceo mentioned, but for everyone else, hybrid, alternative fuels and hydrogen as the obvious options
Oh and as one final thought, if every car was EV, the grid would not cope, it would cost trillions not billions to implement the infrastructure and still have the issues of charging....
Finally, charging times, this can also be a big issue at home, as cars with bigger batteries taking 15hrs to charge !
Thanks for this 🙏🏻
This essay is stretching the worst case scenarios here, I've driven 63k miles in 3 years and drive around europe, no issues at all.
As you do over 100k miles per year and live in an off grid cabin out in the back of beyond you're probably better off sticking with your diesel for now ⛽️ 👍
What a load of crock. I'd suggest EV drivers are more likely to have full capacity in their "tank" than petrol/diesel owners.
Best tell the national grid then that there's a problem as they've said there isn't one with capacity, but guess you know more than them.
Excuses excuses. Keep spewing out those toxic fumes for ever more then.
Where is this 300miles on petrol coming from???? My petrol car does more than 500 miles summer and winter and refuel is 5 minutes!!
I’m a massive petrolhead (I’ve got a McLaren 12c, Ferrari 355, Honda NSX and BAC Mono) but my KIA EV6 GT that I’ve had for 2 years is the best overall car I’ve ever owned.
It’s fast, comfortable, reliable and is genuinely huge fun to drive.
Sure cost is an issue till cars like this trickle down through the second hand market, and public charging if you can’t mainly charge at home is both expensive and not plentiful enough but it’s improving rapidly.
The cars are already brilliant though. Car enthusiasts have nothing to fear if they are already this good!
would be really interested to hear where you think we will be in another 2 - 5 years
There are a few things putting me off. Firstly, to get an EV with an interior that meets the quality of my 15k used Audi, I would have to spend well past 60k. Not only that, but there are currently no EV estates as far as I'm aware, so I couldn't get myself and my bike to the alps. And when I'm driving to the alps, I don't want to stop to charge every few hours because I would never make it in one day. At the moment, an EV is just not even in the conversation for me.
Good points 👍
Not commenting on the charging or price, though regarding the latter there are some great used deals on EVs now, but there are a few estates, starting with the MG5 (at the cheap end) to the Porsche Taycan Turismo (slightly more pricey!). There’s also the Volkswagen ID7 Tourer, the BMW I5 Touring and the Audi A6 e-tron Avant.
My Jaguar i Pace cost 26k. It's 2021 with 17k miles and the interior is incredible. Heated and cooled seats, HUD, 360 cameras, heated wheel AND windscreen. Everything is proper calfskin leather. Absolute bargain. Even during the cold snap I'm seeing 255 mile range. I saw 265 with 10c temps with no heater on
@@Carlos1180 That is a bargain, that car didn't hold value well at all. Got it at the right time
How many hours do you drive in one go??
The "expensive car supplement" is a prime example of fiscal drag. It was introduced in April 2017, set at £40,000 and hasn't been changed. It really needs to be changed because if you don't change it then logically speaking we will get to the point where every single car that's sold will be classed as "expensive". It should have been changed every year based upon some market data for average car prices.
or perhaps, even as simply as in line with baseline + inflation if they want a fire and forget number like the comms sector has done.
Thanks Ped, great video. One aspect you didn’t mention is ongoing maintenance costs. I have an EV and it is serviced every two years and the cost is far cheaper than my old diesel.
Same here, always the same deal- a quick checkover and new AC filters. Also a check on the brakes, make sure they aren't starting to rust since they're barely used.
Yep. Very true 👍
Just don't buy a Jaguar. Pricing no different from a petrol car. In 2 years I'm looking at a £960 bill because they say they have to replace the brake hoses. If I was doing that myself I can do it for £200 max, all in including fresh brake fluid. Taking a 3 year service plan knocks £300 off though so this time I'll do it but after that I'll do my own servicing
@@Carlos1180it’s be different in the new jag 😂😂😂
@@Carlos1180yeah, I had an iPace and the servicing was stupidly expensive - they even tried to sell me an engine flush 😂
My Grandfather saw his first car when it needed a man running ahead with a red flag (prior to 1896), The first Filling Station in the UK was opened in 1919, some 23 years later. When you look at the progress of EVs charging it is so very much better.
🤣🤣🤣🤣 deluded much?
Yes. My great aunt and uncle had a motorbike and got their petrol initially from the chemists shop.
@@shortfattoad7317 I will clarify for you. My Grandfather was born in 1887, he was relating to me his earliest memories during conversations in the 1970's , when I was in my twenties. He remembered the event of the first car to pass his house as it was so striking at the time. He had some disturbing stories of his time on the Western Front as a stretcher bearer also.
I presume you can remember events from your early years.
You've done a great job explaining it all but it is all still way too complicated, people haven't got time to research and study volts, kilowatts, amps, real world mileage etc and i've seen too many videos showing how complicated it is to charge when out and about, different apps for different suppliers, and then chargers not working etc etc. For people to adopt EVs it needs to be simplified to the point were it is cheap, easy and stress free to get on the road and just drive. Why don't road side chargers just accept credit cards? The global payment system we all have in our pockets. No you have to download an app, link it to the charger, then pay through the app, and that's if you get a signal! Not to mention queuing for a charger or the time it takes to charge depending on what charger it is. Utter madness. The only way it works is as you say charge at home, off street parking, and local journeys hmmm almost like a 15 minute city plan...
I have a Mitsubishi phev. Also, a Zappi with Solar panels. When the sun's out a can charge for free.
Yep (you need to factor the cost of the solar installation though 😜)
Battery life - if the car Is used then expect a loss of 10% capacity in 10 years. It will continue as the car gets older and you can't rebuild the battery but you can replace it. At vast expense. This looks like a market to be developed so 2nd hand batteries can be acquired and fitted for a better price than now. That will need better standards of build and life of 2nd hand batteries that is accepted by the public - a certified scheme if you like. The worst thing would be to get a damaged battery as that is when fires start.....
Batteries will outlast the car. The batteries will then be used in second life projects like powering stadiums (Nissan leaf ones currently do this). Then you recycle them and use them in a new EV. They need to make the rest of the car last this long!
Average car is scrapped in the U.K. at about 140k miles so on average the battery will outlast the car. Agree with your points about a market for second hand batteries, although there are already some specialists that can replace cells / controllers
Thanks Peter for your insight on this but I will stick with my petrol car for now , even tho I have off street parking I would not want an EV purely for the reason of the mine field of charging either at home or publicly the difference in pricing and road tax . Not to mention depreciation and the blandness of these EV cars truly make them so unappealing to petrol heads.
The minefield of home charging saves me almost £2000 a year. Pretty pleased with that.
Despite regular trips to family across the country (we're in Newcastle, have family in Blackpool and Scarborough) I rarely ever have to charge anywhere but home. We all have EVs now and share our charger with visiting family.
Super cheap 7p charging, and super convenient.
You're right about difference in road tax cost. I'll take £190 for a year over the £5,500 for equivalent petrol or diesel. 🤑
I enjoy watching videos from across the pond but I really do not understand why you guys keep referring to EVs as BEVs…are there any electrical vehicles without a battery? Sounds redundant and unnecessary to me.
Very fair there, Ped. I went to the trouble of getting a driveway built and am reaping the benefits, our 2019 Kona (bought last year for £13k) can be run for less than 3p/mile on home charging, with a 220 mile range even in the depths of winter. For motoring on a budget, if you have a driveway then getting a used EV is an absolute no brainer IMO.
But...without a driveway I don't see any benefit. Unless you have plenty of money and a green conscience I don't see the point, it will cost you more and be more inconvenient to boot. This is the biggest problem the government has to overcome if they want to get people without driveways out of petrol & diesel cars, make residential public charging cheaper & more convenient.
But they're not really that green are they?
@carlgrainger2053 I mean, sure, a push bike is better of course, but even not talking about the CO2 reduction, there's still an obvious lack of locally polluting gasses which cause untold respiratory diseases. It's not a magic bullet on fixing climate change but it's a damn good start on that road.
So many would have the added expense of destroying their front garden and paving over it. Doesn’t sound very environmentally friendly.
Why would you have a concern over an ICR car engine at 50k miles? Our last car we had for 10 years and covered over 225k miles and is still going strong and over 250k miles. Current (plug in hybrid) car is at 34k (13 months old) miles and is under warranty until 2029. Plan to run it to around 250k miles again.
I think he meant he would have similar concerns over an ICE engine.
Which is pretty accurate. At 50k miles, your ice engine isn't concern free. It has wear items, it needed regular servicing etc. Neither is the EV it has battery wear, and it has suspension and wear items too.
Its equitable in items of concerns. Be it ICE or EV.
I don't want to buy a car based on how far it will get me.
I'm noticing more and more chargers without cables. Yes, there are a lot installed but many have had the cables cut off for copper theft, especially higher power DC, heavier gauge.
Great video PP, I think this one will do good numbers!
I’m 4 years in now with my first EV, planning to change our other car (currently ICE) for a Renault 5 E-Tech later this year. I completely agree with you that being able to charge at home makes owning one very easy, I completely understand why people that can’t will be worried about the 2030 mandate.
Some of the anti-EV propaganda out there is unbelievable though, complete nonsense.
I get or exceed the wltp range of 273 miles of my MG ZSEV for about 2/3rds of the year. In fact in August 2023 I got the WLTP range fully loaded with 4 occupants (2 adults, 2 teenagers), including a Thule Roofbox travelling from London to Cornwall. In winter on short journeys ( so no tine for the battery to heat up) in minus temps, its down at circa 200 miles. I have heating and cooling on as and wgen I need it. I will nornally drive on ECO mode unless there is aby reasin not to. Motirway speeds are usually 65 mph, which you often would find difficult to surpass anyway due to traffic conditions, congestion , road works etc etc. Hammering it as fast as you can just means you het to the next hold up , set of lights quicker and spend longer there.
Last week, as a country, we apparently had one week of gas supply left which is used to create electricity most of the time (notwithstanding a small contribution from wind if it’s blowing). No one seems to be connecting the dots that EVs (ignoring the reality that they are environmentally unfriendly until about 60000 miles and excluding the slave labour problem) are only any use if we have enough electricity. For the time being, besides anything else, splitting energy reliance between gas and petrol seems wise. In the end it’s about where does the power/energy come from. Edison understood this when he set up GE.
So much wrong in your comments, I don’t know where to start.
Renewables may have been a small percentage 10 years ago but average for GB over the last year was renewables approx 40% of total and fossil approx 30%.
@@bordersw1239
Like an EV has effectively offset its manufacturing carbon footprint in less than 3 years.
Or charging an EV on a gas powered grid is still lower carbon than burning fuel in an ICE vehicle, because the engine is so much less efficient than a huge power station.
Or that renewables make up about 40% of the UK's electric generation, so EVs produce much less CO2 per mile than an equivalent ICE vehicle.
Wonder how I drive my EV using wind power then. Ripple energy pays me each month for the wind. Not like we live on an island with wind 😂😂😂 you do know it takes a lot of electricity to generate petrol in refineries right? Like a cities worth? Please stop trolling..
He’s conveniently forgotten to mention the absolutely grim pollution in cities. Absolutely rank and unliveable in certain areas. Centre of London tonnes better these days but still a way to go….and the answer to the gas issues is don’t rely on foreign imports where they can have us by the balls. Get self sufficient with nuclear, renewables etc. win win we don’t need their oil either.
You made the comment that EVs are written off more readily than ICE vehicles, but for cars under 5 years old, numbers are that ICE are written off twice as likely as an EV, 1.8% vs 0.9%.
A well balanced analysis. We run two EVs - an 8 year old Nissan Leaf which we use as a run-around and a 1 year old MG5 which is used for long journeys. Contrary to media reporting, range has never really been an issue, where as access to public chargers occasionally is. In its 8 years, the Leaf has never failed despite the fact that is driven through 6 inches of mud and cow dung twice a day every day, across fields, and through flood water, sometime several feet deep. Running costs are a tenth of our old petrol and diesel vehicles but we do have off-road charging and solar PV. Would we go back to the ICE? No - the disadvantages of EVs are far outweighed by the benefits.
My employer will not do Salary Sacrifice due to the capital required cyclevto work is their limit.
Severe depreciation unexpected by leasing companies is big trouble when the lease ends and the cars enter the used market where the losses not predicded at purchase come home to roost finance has to be settled at some point.
For the right use case EVs are terrific and cheap to run if home charged.
We are still 10 years away from true price parity and range/ charging being good enough not to cause compromises.
13:10 😂 I don't have a home suitable, can't afford it. Only way I could charge is on the street and those chargers are 79 pence per KWH
Tesla do charging as low as 24 Pence per kWhr, if you find the right location and have the Tesla app. You don't even need a Tesla to take advantage of low cost Tesla charging, you just need to use open to all Tesla Superchargers.
Away from Tesla, many changer operators give lower cost charging on a subscription, Ionity is 46 P/kWh IIRC.
Thanks for the interesting video Pete. Regarding the Road tax & Lux tax from April, it would have been useful if you included what these taxes are for an ICE of same purchase price. In addition, how much would an equivalent ICE to an EV3 typically cost to run per mile as a comparison to the 20p estimate for the EV3 being rapid charged. I suspect the EV3 may still prove cheaper to tax & run, even with these additional taxes on EV’s?
@2:30 You're highlighting cars that are over 18k/20k. My BMW petrol 330i was 17k back in 2020 and I know which I would prefer.
EV's have crazy depreciation so it does not make any sense to actually buy one using PPI from a dealer as the balloon payment would be far higher than what they would actually be worth so you end up taking out another PPI deal.
I think you have to consider what the cost would be, between EV and ICE, of having to replace an engine or an EV battery. Engine is much cheaper.
If you have a minor shunt which damages the EV battery, then you're looking at a complete replacement of the battery which can run to several 10's of thousands if you are out of warranty for the battery. EVs aren't quite there yet for me ( inc the range ) so I'm sticking with ICE.
Not sure how a minor shunt would damage the battery, anymore than such an event would knacker an engine, you’d have to be incredibly unlucky and the likelihood of having to replace the battery is vanishingly small (the costing you give for a replacement is also excessive given how battery prices have nosedived lately); EVs in general are much cheaper to maintain. Of course fine if you want to stick with ICE but I’m not convinced your reasons are valid.
Insurance would make it a write off and you'd get an estimate of it's worth and be able to buy an equivalent age on second hand.
With gap insurance you'd get new for old.
Do EVs have worse depreciation than equivalent petrol versions? People say so but I'd like to see the maths/ proof.
Flip side , if this is true - it's the fleets that are taking that - and they are happy to because of the BIK tax savings EVs get the leases are still dead cheap.
And we benefit by getting second hand bargains on EVs. Yay.
Have you seen how much BMW charge for a new engine, let alone the 20 hours work to fit it? A 2017 car needing a new engine will be a write off, simple.
If a battery is damaged because of an impact, then the car is a write off anyway, as the battery is in the middle, so a long way from the main impact zones. Any side impact is an instant write off anyway, so again the car will be scrap, even though the battery will likely survive and become a second hand part.
Great, informative video. We've currently been leasing an Ioniq 5 for the past two and a half years. We do around 12,000 miles a year. Swings and roundabouts. Good - £5 to fully charge with OVO overnight; the charger paid for itself within 8 months; charge at home is great - arrive home, plug it in, charged by the following morning. Bad - range, guoted at 310 is still a problem for long distance driving e.g. 100 miles to the airport. Driving on the motorway at 65/70 mph kills the range; for a 200 mile round trip to the airport by motorway gives a range of 230/240 miles!! You have to plan ahead a bit and find a charger beforehand and allow 30 mins for a top up. Local driving around town - range is around 280.
If you drive a lot of small, local runs then they're great. If you regularly drive above 200 miles round trip, then not so great as 'not at home charging' is expensive.
Couple of things that you need to mention is.. Servicing costs on EVs is so much cheaper. And warranty normally 8 years on an EV battery 6 years on the drive train and 3 years on everything else. Oh an other thing is leasing EVs are often cheaper to lease and you have no depreciation worries.
Yes. Good points 👍
Really, cheaper! I had a quote on my 38 Kw Ioniq of £572 to change the battery cooling liquid.
@ shop around
Please change from petrol Ped to ev Ped
An electric Mini for the same price as a Kia EV3! BMW are having a larf!
They do need to look at their EV pricing 😬
I've been waiting for electric cars to be a viable alternative for decades. The battery developments we've seen in the latest years, more than anything else have made it possible.Great to see someone finally addressing how different the owner experience can be if you are able to charge at home, versus if you aren't.
As for the cars themselves, they suffer from the same issues as most new cars, as driver engagement is pushed further down the list of priorities, cars get larger, heavier, and catering to a single form factor: SUV.
The only thing missing from your analysis, IMO, is the weight issue, as this still affects EVs more than conventional vehicles, and the the added expense in tires, as EVs, due to the higher weight and instant torque need more expensive tires, and wear them out faster than conventional cars.
Our EV has done 12k miles on the tyres so far, and only worn them down by 2mm. It's looking like they'll last another 24k at this rate, which isn't bad for a 2100kg car with over 325 HP.
Nice balanced piece. WLTP is just as bad for ICE. How many actually get the MPG in real life, Some do some don't. EV wise over 18 months I have yet to drop to WLTP for E-Niro (283). Worst 290 miles, best 314. Yes cheap to charge at home & more expensive away from home. But you have to balance the 2. Bit like petrol @ supermarket & then @ brand names. When working out average costs.
This is so true reference ICE MPG. To make things worse, often the MPG readout is optimistic, claiming more than is actually being achieved.
My diesel Audi claims 37 MPG on the display, but working out the miles travelled from the fuel I've put in shows it's optimistic by nearly 4 MPG. Even then the optimistic figure is still well short of the manufacturer's claimed MPG.
All EV testing is done on a level playing field, so a direct comparison can be made between vehicles, but the WLTP should be regarded as a guide.
We've exceeded the WLTP of our EV on occasion, so it's definitely not impossible to get it, but the weather needs to be warm, and the roads need to be pretty flat, and speed needs to be kept to a minimum, oh and acceleration needs to be normal, not EV fast.
Thanks 🙏🏻
Try as I might , I almost always tune out after a few minutes of listening to any video on EVs . The mind numbing explanations of KwH, AC/DC, charging rates, range etc. etc. Just isn’t for me. I buy a car as much for the enjoyment of driving as I do for practical transportation. I know enough about EVs to realise they are not for me. I wish governments would stop interfering in people’s ability to chose and stop trying to shame people into thinking it’s all for the good of the environment, it’s not, many already know what this is really about.
When EV cars were first talked about they were going to “save the planet” . Well that never happened.
The main culprit (as we all know) is heavy industry, but governments across the globe seem to have conveniently stuffed that one under the carpet.
The production processes in the manufacturing of EV vehicles is definitely not green even though the end product may well be classed as green.
Everything is wrong, covered up or lied about.
You most surely gave a fair and balanced view based on your opinion, and I thank you for that.
I did not need anymore convincing of my dislike of the EV motor industry, but it’s a bit stronger now.
Cheers Pete 👍
Wasn't there a study that showed earths temperature has always been up and down, we are adding to it but hardly making a difference and will happen either way
The planet will be fine. It's my children's lungs I'm bothered about.
@@petergilbert9066 Home school them with the money you save on not buying EVs :p
@UnderWarranty And the planet has always been fine 🙂 . Let's just hope HUMANS are more hardy and robust than dinosaurs. Otherwise, whatever inhabits the earth next may be running their vehicles on OUR squeezings.
@UnderWarranty Or with the money I save on not buying petrol, diesel, injectors, dpf's, clutches, flywheels, egr's, intake manifolds, scr's, wet belt and timing chain failures, mechatronic units.................
With charging access I know of a lot of people that might not have chargers AT work or home but once every other week when they need to charge there's public points in a carpark or store nearby or just around the corner of their house and they just charge there at 11kW. It's still more expensive than at home obviously and 6p is VERY cheap but usually it ends up being 40-50p per kWh.
If there is a need, a lot of cities and town you can request they install these low energy public chargers, Win-Win. Income for the city with a low installation cost and you have a charger you can use.
Also should be noted that a lot of people that live urban lives don't need or want a car, and those that they're usually comfortable enough to rent a separate parking space or just pay whatever it costs to charge. But it won't be more convenient in 100% of usecases indeed.
Im a two EV house hold with one charger and never needed to charge both cars at the same time just plan a head and even if i did just run out the granny cable 😊
There is a massive amount of difference between a 60k mile EV and a 60k ICE. You get service history with ICE. EV? You have no idea of how the battery has been looked after.
You can get battery checks for the status of the battery health. It is easy.
@@johnbaker5533
Easier that an ICE, because there's no way of telling if the engine is going to drop a valve, or suffer some other expensive failure at any time outside of a very short warranty.
Excellent video Ped. I've just bought a 25 model VW ID4. What a car. 282bhp, 77kwh battery. Range over current freeze not brilliant, but still showing 200miles. I use Ovo as my home charge. Charge anytime of day for .7p a kwh. On average I'm paying £3.50 to charge back up to 80%.
If you have the right setup an EV makes an excellent choice
Sounds great!
@@PetrolPedcan’t believe you dont have off peak at home man. Would defo weigh that one up. Our house leccy is not too dissimilar than before the car despite using triple the leccy we used too.
The difference in peak prices is minimal, often only a penny or 2. The cheaper off peak outweighs it even just on running dishwashers etc in off peak times. Talk to EV Man and get him to do some man maths for you on his whiteboard of truth.
We're with Eon, on an EV tariff. We pay 6.7 P/kWh 00:00-07:00, then 24.42 P/kWh the rest of the time. We do have solar too, but we put all heavy consumption items on over night, so reducing our daily electricity expenditure, and maximising the energy we export, which we then get paid for.
We effectively run our EV for 18k miles per year from the money we make on our electricity export payments.
@@johnnodge4327Well done. That has to be the perfect setup. It's just such a shame that so many drivers without home charging options won't be able to achieve all of the benefits of owning an EV.
25:36 25:36 I love this subject so much as its so variable. I have owned an ev for 3 years now. I love it, love its drive its performance. But one thing I will not do as I see a lot is I won't get onto a forum and talk like they are 100% for everyone. I also fit EV chargers. I find that it's the just the retired person who has had or got a pot of gold and is lucky and lives comfortable, so it's not an average family. They always come back with I don't have that trouble, or it's good to rest after a trip so waiting and charging for over an hour is no problem in there life as they have all the time in the world. My ev estimated 239 miles has never ever achieved this. Infact it has a winters and summer mileage. Winter is a huge drop in range and I am talking 60miles depending on temp. I totally agree charging at home is the way to go and like you I am very lucky I have 2 chargers one for economy 7 charging and one only using solar. So I can run my ev free more or less for 7 months a year as long as I charge from home. The only draw back is the solar charger wears out more that the one connected to grid due to its contactor dropping in and out in poor cloudy days. Second for us like you said is charging outside your home, it's very expensive. The country should consintrate on fast dc chargers as ac really is a waist of time unless you want to spend 6 hours shopping in tesco or another supermarket. One other issue I have is towing. How will I tow my twin Axle caravan if i cannot use a ice vehicle. Oh I could use one of the new pick ups or new ev vans, towing distroys ev battery range. Also ev charging in areas we visit are non exsisting, and how do I charge my vehicle with a huge caravan behind it. Of course I don't tow it every day do I. But we do use for quite a few months of the year. Going back to what you said about, you would not do many long journeys a week. That's a possibility, we live in midwales a part I know you visit when you visit moggie. Now if I work in Telford my car would need a charge every evening ready for work. Now what about my wife and my 2 kids all with evs and who have to travel as well. So we have 4 evs at my home all needing charge for work. So now my home has only single phase. How do we charge a four vehicles even at 1 am in the morning all taking 7kw. I tell you something, I have 2 chargers and the DNO have only given me concent to run the second charger at 50% because it's to much load being used at my home which is near 100% all electric. Grate living rural lol. So now are going into another problem area which know one talks about as we normally only have one ev. So with many homes in many areas with only 60amp supply's and with homes going away from focil heating to heat pumps so another huge load from the supply. Another issue which is arrising is that many homes and farms are having huge solar systems fitted and that's great but another isue is arrising which is over voltage on the network. This is causing many ev chargers to stop working as they are set to the grids max of 253volts ac. If a charger sees 253v for more than 10 minutes then it will reboot. This also happens to solar inverters . So we have many issues ahead of us. Long trips cause no end of issues eith our family life. My wife wants to go back to a diesel because most long weekend trips with have always end up in huge waiting times and issues from range .then finding a charger that does not work is a huge pain. One weekend trip we had was a charging time of 5 hours for a journey of 9 hours in total. The added cost as well for each stop as we would always have another coffee or bite to eat lol. I am fighting to keep my ev, I think we will keep it for local journeys and have a diesel for our towing and trips. But I love my EV
Luxury at 40k 😅 Luxury should start at 80k. The average family vehicle needs to be a large sedan like model Y or the kia ev9 or the hyundai ionic 9. Personally, I wouldn't buy the early evs because of charging speed and build quality. Here. In states California was talking about ev tax because they weren't getting the amount of gas tax because of all the evs. So governments and states will always find a way to get your money.
The £40k 'luxury' bracket is nuts - An average family car now costs more than £40k - Vauxhall and Skodas, yada,yada... - these aren't luxury !
Lol
We managed in a saxo when I was a kid
Totally agree
Extremly balanced video. I use to like the voom voom noise then i grew up. Now i love peace a quite , with blistering speed if i want it.
We do run an older EV, one that's probably only worth about £3000. It's a 2017 Renault Zoe ZE40, we bought it at a year old and we've put 100,000 miles on it, it now sits at 110,000 miles. It is what it is and isn't what it isn't, I wouldn't take it beyond it's range of about 120-140 miles but that figure hasn't really diminished in the last 8 years, it's had no major repairs beyond MOT stuff like brakes and tyres, and I don't think we've even serviced for about 4 years. It costs less than 2p p/mile to run, or often free from our solar panels, and as a second car to our long range eNiro it's absolutely perfect.
Wow. This is great to hear 👍
That's lovely if you have the money to buy solar panels, it's not cheap to put in even a small solar system.
@@mytefor depends on what you call "cheap" you could buy a newer Renault Zoe with 250 miles of range and our 6kW solar system with a 10kWh battery for less than £25k...plenty of people spend that just on a car.
Try towing with an EV and you will spend longer charging than driving.
Been there and done that…
th-cam.com/video/0oLeKRNsSn4/w-d-xo.htmlsi=-4d1KFJx48WLyiea
@@PetrolPed - That iX M60 is lush !
You can't not be unbias on EV's, they are government mandated which requires the use of FORCE. Ideas so good we're being FORCED to buy them. Home charging also will be much more expensive than you claim as Ed Milliband is going make damn sure you pay through the nose for home charging.
Great video as usual Ped! Yesterday my wife and I picked up a Corsa E Ultimate. 3k miles on the clock, just over a year old, every option including the metallic red paint, for £15k. We’ve found there is a company called Tomato energy who is offering 5p per kWh overnight, with 2 other cheaper times during the day at 14p, and the remaining day still competitive at 23p.
We’ve just moved from a PHEV and we’re excited to see how our EV journey goes over the next few years. Hoping to keep the Corsa for a long time!
£15k…wow 😮👌
@@PetrolPed But not great the the person selling it.
Very nicely done overall.
Just one quibble with your maths:
Public ultra-rapid charging is usually about 82p/KWh max - I have seen this dropping below 80p recently but we will go with the higher figure.
Using your figure of 6.7p/KWh at home,
82/6.7 is just over 12 times as expensive, not 20 times - and that's worst case. I'm on 7.5p and, taking public charging at 79p, that's a multiple of only 10.5
Also worth noting: Provided you can charge at your destination, you need only top up as much as necessary to get there, you're very unlikely to be brimming your tank on the public network. Any car can plug into any 3-pin domestic socket and charge, albeit slowly. But, if you're charging over night, it does not really matter how slowly.
My Ford Focus Diesel takes 5 minutes to fill and will do 650 miles (only slightly less in Winter) so until an EV does that they aren't worth having. Also the figures for EVs sold last year are completely fake as most are pre-registered by dealers to avoid fines and are all on Auto Trader as used. They have single figure mileages on them and discounted considerable so indicating just how desperate dealers are, to give such huge discounts rather than pay Government fines for not meeting EV sales targets.
Also why are they all so downright UGLY!!